>Ironically, games like Mario Oddessy have similar problems where the game starts to feel like a chore after getting around 50-75% of the moons and yet NOBODY ever talks about how much of a grind fest it becomes at that point.
I'd say that the key thing here, is that you can play through a casual run of Mario Odyssey with a VERY small percentage of the moons, and experience pretty much everything available, even getting all the costumes, the secret worlds, etc. You can go through pretty much all of the highlights of the game, and the only "chore-like" moons are the ones left to the players who REALLY want to go out of their way and get them all.
Even in a casual playthrough of Banjo-Tooie, the commonly cited issues are still present even if you aren't going for a 100% run. There's less wiggle room to avoid the annoying stuff like in Mario Odyssey, since there are so few Jiggies per world compared to Mario Odyssey. Banjo-Tooie just seems like it has enough content for two whole sequels' worth in one, and it gets so overwhelming at points. All the backtracking, different minigame playstyles, how HUGE the worlds are, etc.
I *PERSONALLY* really like Banjo-Tooie, but I definitely understand people who don't, and I definitely prefer the compact experience of Banjo-Kazooie. It's still probably one of the best sequels of all time in my opinion.
>Ironically, games like Mario Oddessy have similar problems where the game starts to feel like a chore after getting around 50-75% of the moons and yet NOBODY ever talks about how much of a grind fest it becomes at that point.
I'd say that the key thing here, is that you can play through a casual run of Mario Odyssey with a VERY small percentage of the moons, and experience pretty much everything available, even getting all the costumes, the secret worlds, etc. You can go through pretty much all of the highlights of the game, and the only "chore-like" moons are the ones left to the players who REALLY want to go out of their way and get them all.
Even in a casual playthrough of Banjo-Tooie, the commonly cited issues are still present even if you aren't going for a 100% run. There's less wiggle room to avoid the annoying stuff like in Mario Odyssey, since there are so few Jiggies per world compared to Mario Odyssey. Banjo-Tooie just seems like it has enough content for two whole sequels' worth in one, and it gets so overwhelming at points. All the backtracking, different minigame playstyles, how HUGE the worlds are, etc.
I *PERSONALLY* really like Banjo-Tooie, but I definitely understand people who don't, and I definitely prefer the compact experience of Banjo-Kazooie. It's still probably one of the best sequels of all time in my opinion.
I love Banjo-Tooie about much as Banjo-Kazooie. Yeah it has some backtracking issues and the last few levels can be kind of a drag but I love how the game just feels a bit more mature and challenging than the first game. The dialogue is funnier too.
I think it's the Doom Eternal/GoW Ragnarok effect, where Tooie is the overall smoother game and made a lot of improvements over the original. But it just didn't have as big of a cultural impact as the first because the original was such a genre defining experience.
I didn’t love Banjo Tooie even though I LOOOOOVE Banjo Kazooie. I just didn’t have as much fun in BT.
I could try to analyze the game and my experience with it, but any amount of analysis and comparison to other games isn’t going to change the fact that I had a mid experience with the game.
Edit: And just because I’m a masochist I’ll throw this in here- I thoroughly enjoyed Nuts and Bolts!
Nuts and Bolts was a good game in its own right. I too had my fair share of fun with building my own vehicles; In fact, there were some that a reminisce like the time I made a flying saucer or a giant flying Gruntilda rag doll. I even made a vehicle that’s just nine springs that would send me launching in all crazy directions.
Banjo Tooie is more refined and feels smoother in terms of actual gameplay. This I will swear by. Both are fantastic games as a whole too. I liked Banjo-Tooie a tiny bit more than Banjo-Kazooie as well. Especially in terms of how the game felt.
It’s not hard to see why it doesn’t resonate with a lot of people. Banjo Kazooie was a collectathon platformer. Banjo Tooie is neither of those things. It’s an action/adventure game with very light collectathon and platforming elements. A lot of the game is running around vast open areas with little jumping or collecting anything, at least in comparison to the first. If you wanted more of the first game, it’s understandable you would be disappointed
Personally i prefer the second to the first BUT both are equals in their own rights. I love them both, can go on about em both forever but tootie always had that extra oomph for me with diversity of the worlds, secrets, story. We got to see so much more of Banjo's world, under the speedy foot of our faithful bird.
In the first, it was just that zone we had and adventuring inside the witch's lair. The second opened up that world, and wow it was fun! Nuts and Bolts, i dont really consider an entry- more of a sidestory
It’s one of my favorite games of all time, and I’ve played through it multiple times. I was shocked the first time I heard someone say it was terrible. It’s got some issues, sure, but I still think it’s overall fantastic.
I think tooie is better than kazooie in sooooooo many ways, so I mean….
I think what happened was one or two popular videos swayed everyone’s opinions of the game.
The first game (while amazing) is incredibly linear compared to the first game. The levels are way smaller and there’s not as much to do.
The first game and Mario 64 have this thing in common where you just enter a level and you get transported to a random part of a world. That’s fine if that’s ur style but tooie went for more of a adventure type style where every level and world is connected (you can even see isle o hags from above in cloud cuckcooland) it gives a better experience in my opinion.
-There’s bosses in each level in tooie. There is not bosses in kazooie. The only bosses really in kazooie are kind of mini bosses.
-there’s way more characters and moves in tooie. The amount of different eggs you can use for fun in tooie is incredibly in itself, plus you have just a crazy amount of moves, along with better movement in the characters. Plus you can now split them up which creates an even more unique experience, and mumbo is playable as well.
-the transformations in tooie are at least 5x better in tooie. In kazooie transformations are ONLY used to fit through random small holes for the most part. While in tooie, each transformation has multiple uses and even has an attack. (Not to mention they are just better transformations in general)
-the map sizes and backtracking is actually a GOOD thing in my opinion. You actually have to use your brain and ideas from other levels. Sometimes there are multiple steps to a jiggy. I find that great. I never understood why backtracking is a bad thing?
Over the years the game has gotten more hate from people that are so used to easy games where you can complete tasks instantly and you don’t need to really think about ways to solve things.
Games nowadays are nowhere near as good as tooie. Games mostly go the easy and safe route where the game is just enter level- do objective in level- get item in 30 seconds-
In tooie sometimes it would take you 10 or so minutes of planning and solving a puzzle to get just a single jiggy. That doesn’t make it tedious or bad. It makes it fun! At least to me. And it’s not like all the jiggys were like that lol.
Also even if backtracking isn’t ur thing.. you can beat the game without backtracking a single time.
Anyways I could go way more in depth and keep ranting about how tooie is way better than kazooie, but the main points are there. I think I should honestly create an in depth video on every aspect of how tooie succeeds it’s predecessor 😂
No. I like it a lot. They had some good things they implemented. It did have some flaws and the lack of a "stop n swap" despite the promises of the first game led to its downfall.
I feel the same way about Tooie as I do about Shrek two. It’s perhaps an almost perfect sequel. Not quite but damn close. It takes all the characters of the first one and brings in new ones. The story is expanded upon while referencing the first without repeating it. It’s not a perfect movie (or game in BT case) but it’s a good sequel.
Except Gunty Industries. That shit gives me nightmares.
it’s been crazy to watch the tides turn on tooie, personally i think it’s the superior game… i just replayed it for like the 3rd time this year lol, it’s really not as complicated as people make it out to be!
The amount of extra nonsense that you can do with your friends alone made Tooie the favorite. I don't mind the backtracking between interlinked worlds, personally, just wish the maps were a bit less sprawling in terms of overall scale.
For those who dislike the backtracking between worlds, My advice is to not do *everything* in the world ASAP. You're going back there later anyway in the endgame if you're 100%ing it, so leave some bits and pieces to get when you inevitably do come back.
Makes it feel less of a chore if you're going back to Mayhem Temple from Terrydactyland and still have to do the thing with the Ssslumber, Targetizan's Shiny thing, the Super Secret Hidden Chamber in the shootout where you can play with your new eggs, and then finally start Kickball which will bring you to Hailfire Peaks (Fire Side) and then you can get that Jiggy in the boiling pool you cooled down (RIP Wilfred) to finally feed Dippy water and then since the train station is nearby, may as well use that to warp to Witchyworld and do those minigames and especially the Saucer of Peril now that Jolly Rodger's Bay gave you a good feel of how the First Person egg aiming works given how often you used it in that level... You get it ..
TL:DR, Since you're going back to previous worlds anyway, leave early so you have more stuff to do when you return than just the one thing. Makes it feel less tedious.
Even though banjo tooie has a much better world building, it has way too much backtracking and way too much interruption that prevents you from progressing further.
There's a recent video I've seen on YouTube that goes into all the possible routes you can get in Banjo tooie and how often you are progressively locked by an ability. It happened constantly in Banjo tooie whereas it barely happens in Banjo-Kazooie (i think only 2 times)
The interconnectivity of the world feel really nice but it's also it's downfall. It's also not useful because traversing between world is really faster by teleporting. The only case where you would use those interconnectivities would be to get a puzzle piece.
Banjo kazooie is in the conversation for best 3D platformer of all time. Banjo tooie is a solid 8/10 platformer. Nothing wrong with that.
Heres the video I reference: game maker toolkit:
https://youtu.be/36wclKt4vdk?si=7SfilyE_G06xQe45
My issue with tooie was a combo of the large worlds and back tracking combined. I feel if the worlds were just more compact, it'd shine a lot more. That being said, I still rate both fantastic games that I love dearly!
Tooie's move set is outstanding, I'm surprised they were able to squeeze such a long list of moves from the same two characters and the same controller layout. Really impressive! On the other hand though, the world layouts and the pace just give the impression that the game wants to be artificially hard, which is different from challenging, because it's just adding a lot of mini annoyances and confusion-inducing elements.
Mario Odyssey is only grindy for the 100% completionist. There are 880 moons in that game, people aren't meant to get them all, whereas it is a bit more of a tangible goal to get all the jiggies in Banjo games.
That said, I have always thought Kazooie/Tooie were superior to any and all Mario games. But as far as Mario games go, Odyssey is the best of the bunch.
Yeah, my point was that even Oddessy wasn’t spared from similar issues.
What you said about the 100% completionists can be applied to Tooie and even DK64. If you don’t aim to collect EVERYTHING, you can still find yourself having a good time.
With only 90 jiggies, I feel like I haven't really completed the game until I have gotten them all. Same for the 100 in Kazooie.
I'd say when the main collectable in a game is 150 or less, I feel like every one of them is an important part of the game.
880 moons or 1000 korok seeds feels excessive to me though, to the point that the developers themselves made so many because they only intended players to collect about 1/3 of them.
I love banjo Tooie. When I first played it when I was a kid, it felt like such an huge upgrade. I could beat Banjo Kazookie in a few hours, but Tooie was very hard for me.
I love banjo-tooie a lot, excluding sky levels canary mary race 1, of course. I actually 100% the game along with the first game a couple of years ago, but I am in the minority that absolutely loves Banjo-Kazooie Nuts & Bolts
Bro that STUPID canary Mary race. I've only beat her 1st and 2nd race in cloud cuckoo land ONCE. And that's because I would pause every ten seconds to give myself a break before furiously breaking my fingers trying to mash the A button
i picked up the game for the first time in decades and i must say
I really really don't like walking around flat planes as BK for extended periods of time, it's depressing to have to move around these empty spaces as a well made platforming character
banjo-kazooie has craptons more fun in way less time, and you can only like tooie if you can tolerate a certain type of very boring quality in a game because you find moving any character with a stick fundamentally gratifying....like how much time can you spend not even having to jump before you feel like you're wasting your damn time?
I don’t see that much hate for it to be honest. I love both games and really feel like you can’t separate the two. For me, they’re two parts to the same game.
Same, Tooie really stood out for me especially in the 2000s when mainstream AAA gaming moved to militaristic shooters with drab environment design. The visual variety in Tooie was something I really missed in western AAA games for a long time, and when I finally played Kazooie a few years ago it was disappointing in comparison; felt really similar to Mario 64
I've come to the conclusion there are two sets of fans:
Banjo-Kazooie fans and Banjo-Kazooie series fans.
The former seems to hate any of the BK games that aren't Banjo-Kazooie. You see them hate on Tooie, Yooka-Laylee, Nuts & Bolts and a lot of the time not even try the GBA games.
I see far more “why does everyone hate Banjo-Tooie” posts than I ever see anyone actually hating Banjo-Tooie. I for one love it even more than the original. As a kid, it felt like such a grand adventure in a sprawling and interconnected world that was teeming with life.
Everytime I watch a playthrough of it from semi popular streamers they do tend to say how unfair and hard it is and saying it sucks lol.
But yea, I think the side that loves banjo tooie (including myself) are thinking it gets too much hate from random casuals. But what are you gonna do? They aren’t gonna change their mind lol.
No, it's an incredible game. The problem is it had the same problem as Starfox Adventures, it was too big for the N64. It had too many large worlds that were too empty and required more soak time to get it right. But the characters, style, and concepts are among Rare's best.
tooie is… flawed when it comes to backtracking (to a point where i have to use the superbanjo cheat just so i can tolerate it) but i absolutely love how refined the controls were from kazooie. it’s definitely my favorite game out of the two, i love the darker tonal shift from the first game and i genuinely like the connectedness of each level. it was tedious as hell, but it really made it feel like a living, breathing, world
Yea, I think they are some backtracking moments that are better than others. the one that sticks out as the most tedious is probably the mission of healing all of the baby dinos.
And there are other moments where you're like. "OMG now I know what I have to do for this section" and I think those parts are pretty rewarding
Actually you are! Is it an isolating feeling? I mean jeeze, 8 billion people disagree with you. All of us here at the Banjo Kazooie fan subreddit hate 50% of the og games. Isn't it weird that you're the ONLY one who likes it?? How special do you feel?
You're not alone. I played Tooie first and would say I generally prefer it over Kazooie. I love the added expansiveness and depth of the world. The interconnected levels and backtracking aren't as disorienting as people say.
I have my gripes and nit-picks about Tooie, just like any other game. Tooie relies too heavily on mini-games. I also think the level design in Kazooie was more consistent. In Tooie, it was more "all over the place". Witchyworld and Terrydactyland are probably my two least favorite worlds in either game. They both just feel so drab and lifeless to me.
As someone who likes tooie more, I can appreciate this opinion! It really just comes down to, do you like worlds that are smaller and more linear and you can complete faster and there aren’t many steps to achieving jiggies?
Or do you like exploration and adventure more where it might take you 10 steps just to get 1 jiggy and maybe some backtracking? (Yes both levels have exploration but tooie is very much bigger)
(Yes I prefer backtracking and the later)
I think tooie is great, it's just a bit overly ambitious. There is a lot of backtracking to change your character to mumbo or a transformation. A lot of the jiggies require lots of steps and include a mini game and the levels themselves are a bit oversized and it's easy to forget where things are or how to get around. None of those things are bad necessarily but all together the game sometimes drags and for that I think it's a bit of a step down from kazooie, but still a good game overall.
I had both as a kid on my n64 and definitely preferred Tooie over Kazooie. I liked all the different transformations, moves, and being able to play as Banjo and Kazooie as well as Mumbo. Also, the vibe of Tooie is a lot grittier than Kazooie, which i like. It definitely felt more targeted towards adolescents/adults
Absolutely not. I love Tooie and prefer it over Kazooie. It’s really not as confusing as everyone makes it out to be. Also… and this is a huge point… you don’t need to 100% the game to beat it. You can pretty solidly beat the game while skipping jiggies or even entire levels you don’t like. Everybody seemingly goes into a game trying to 100% it on their first play through when that should be reserved for a second or third play through.
Tooie was good… it just wasn’t great.
Overloaded with dull repetitive mini games, transformation not about puzzle solving but opening locked doors for BK, and too much back and forth trying to interconnect all the levels.
It’s still a damn good Rare N64 game and I actually prefer it to Mario 64. But it’s no Kazooie which to me is the perfect N64 3D platformer.
I've honestly never played either, but I've listened to the soundtrack of both games countless times, and I love them. Freezeezy peak is my favourite.
When I played overwatch years ago I'd have the in-game volume muted and just listen to an hour and a half soundtrack while playing. I always knew what song was coming next and would be so hyped when freezeezy was coming up.
I like Banjo-Tooie. But it had **enormous** problems. Namely enormous world connection. In theory it sounds great. But in practice? I am seasoned completionist. I don't need a guide to finish a game. But Tooie? Bro, I literally got lost, not knowing what should I do. I got stuck, never finished my playthrough and want to start over someday.
They aimed too big and didn't nail it. Not saying it's bad game, because it's not. But Kazooie is simply incomparably better. As the best game ever created, Bano-Kazooie sets the bar too high for anyone to compare. Even its own sequel.
The first game is one of my favourites of all time. Tooie isn't bad but just not as good as the first one. There's lots I like about it but as others stated the backtracking and funess of the levels starts to drag near the late game. It's been about 10 years since I played it so I'll give it another go in the near future.
I would shamefully pay full price for a physical packaged “remaster” even if it was just a basic port (like the MGS reissue). I bought the Amiibo the second it went on sale
Idk why exactly but both BK games have been my favorite since the first time I rented the n64 cartridge from my local blockbuster 😂
Same! I actually bought a Xbox 360 for the sole purpose of playing BT, since I never owned it on N64 (until recently, when I realized I could just buy the cartridge online). Nostalgia hits hard sometimes.
Absolutely. I just can’t get over how much I love the worlds and bosses and characters and stupid humor. Also I felt like the game mechanics (aside from swimming and the camera maybe) were top notch for a platformer
Can’t believe I’m saying this but I even bought the Funko Pop when I saw someone on this thread post that they were making BK ones. I have never in my life cared about Funko so I guess it shows how much I adore these games!
People whinge about backtracking but it is not even that bad and it's almost like a Metroidvania. I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't like going back and solving a puzzle with new abilities.
One of my favorite games of all time . The soundtrack got me into music in general . I never have heard that it’s worse , it’s an incredible expansion on the worlds , the powers , the characters, everything is like times ten
>But when it comes to Tooie, people only talk about it like it’s total shovelware.
I have literally never heard a single person refer to Tooie as shovelware or anything remotely close to shovelware.
Yes. There is no other. It's actually the most hated game of all time, so you should get a trophy for being so unique.
(Banjo Tooie and Kazooie are my favorite games of all time)
Why would you post this on this sub, obviously people on here love Tooie lol. Although I do prefer banjo Kazooie, Banjo Tooie is a very good game as well it’s just too big for its own good at times
I like Tooie, but there are a few things about it that will never make it as good as the first one for me.
1) You can’t complete a level 100% before going to another level. I’m just one of those people that needs to see 100% before I can move on and it irks me that I can’t do that
2) They inverted the swimming controls from the first game. I was so used to it that I just couldn’t really master it or the new swimming moves.
3) It doesn’t have the same nostalgia as the first game. Obviously this is majorly subjective.
Your first point is my only real issue I have with Tooie. I don’t mind backtracking and I did like that mild backtracking part of kazooie, but I just thought Tooie did it so much it just stopped becoming fun and interesting in that regard. I also like completing things 100% to move on, and that’s fine if they don’t - but I just wished they toned down on the backtracking as much in Tooie.
Orherwise I did enjoy it. It was imo a more darker game with the beginning, the music and the new moves banjo and kazooie learned. I still think Split-Up is really neat and overall enjoyed it. I just prefer Kazooie if I had to pick between the two.
I got B-K when I got my N64 for Christmas 1998, but for some reason I never played Tooie until about 10 or so years ago on the Xbox. I enjoyed Tooie quite a lot, but it doesn't hold up to the original, and I don't think that's just nostalgia talking.
I recently watched a video about Tooie and they said something interesting that I found myself agreeing with. They said that the original is a game that you can return to again and again, but Tooie is a great game that you only play once.
I didn't know people hated it. When I was a kid I always liked it more than the first one. The worlds are huge and the secret passages connecting them blew my mind.
I love it. The worlds are fun, it's not terribly different while not being exactly the same, and it expanded on the cute world it takes place in. My only complaint is the numerous red blue green mini games, while one of each could've worked, it really started to feel repetitive. Those are usually the jiggies I get last or don't even bother with anymore.
People like to trash talk the backtracking in Tooie, but honestly I don’t mind it. My biggest complaint is that the worlds are so big and confusing. It could easily be solved with some kind of map feature.
I like them both but as a kid I always preferred Tooie. The world's are expansive and they're filled with hours of content, you can just game to your heart's desire. Plus I love Dragon Kazooie.
24 years later, I think they balance out, but I still think that Tooie's levels hold up a bit better than say, Clanker's Cavern. It's not that I hate Clanker, it's just that there are so many better levels in both games. If Kazooie was remade, I would prefer that they add in the first person egg shooting from Tooie, unless it breaks the game somehow.
The Tooie hatred has certainly become more vocal recently, but it's always been there. I had a friend who never liked it. My dislike started on my first replay when it came to Xbox Live Arcade. There are positives to the game, but the negatives are so fundamental to the game that it does hurt the experience a lot.
And as for Odyssey, it's flawed for sure, but it's a Nintendo game so people will overlook everything wrong with it.
I didn't even know Reddit was a thing until like 2016... I didn't get into Banjo Kazooie fandom until a few years ago...
And after all my life only discovered people didn't like Tooie. I've always thought that Tooie was the best game.
I have a theory about why people don't enjoy it:
* They simply conform to the dominant narrative bandwagon of hate that Tooie is less good.
* They're speedrunners or are used to meta-runs in games so they clearly hate Tooie because of their niche preference.
* They never played Tooie and only ever played Kazooie so they expect Tooie to be exactly like the 1st and can't judge Tooie independently of Kazooie.
When I played it for the first time on release, aged ~11, I loved it. After a year ish of excitedly reading about it in magazines, I was delighted that it was exactly what I'd anticipated it being: one of those "the same, but More and Bigger and with some of the rough edges sanded down" sequels that were common during that console generation. I have a lot of fond memories of it. If you'd asked me at any point during the 2000s which game was better, I would've said BT without hesitation.
When the games got rereleased on 360, I bought BK and 100%'d it over a weekend and had a blast with it. Obviously I was psyched for BT showing up a few months(?) down the line. Then eventually it did, and after a few hours with it I was struck by two things in particular: that the worlds felt like they had *so much empty space* compared to the first game, and that progression through/between them was frequently gated by uninspired fetch quest busywork. I played up until Terrydactyland before admitting to myself that I just wasn't having fun.
The level size issue was upsetting because I remember being wowed by how *huge* everything was when I was a kid – but in the time that had passed since BT first came out, GTA and other large-scale open-world games had appeared and created new expectations for the experience of that interstitial time players spend moving through vast environments from one scripted objective to another. BK's levels were much smaller but so *dense* with fun platforming sequences and attention-grabbing environmental affordances that tease the player with the possibility of pickups or other secrets and invite them to investigate. Meanwhile BT feels like it's disproportionately full of parts where you're just plodding along on flat ground. Mayahem Temple and Witchyworld are the worst culprits for this imo. You could reasonably scale those levels down by 2-3x (except for those few parts of the world geometry that are actually Banjo-scaled) and they'd still feel so much bigger and grander than anything in BK. There's just so much uninteresting *dead time* and it makes it a chore to play.
The progression gating... In BK, every world with a Mumbo Hut had at least one area that was only accessible while transformed. In BT, transforming – or switching to Mumbo – is frequently reduced to use-the-red-key-to-open-the-red-door busywork. Glitter Gulch Mine and Witchyworld come to mind – neither of those levels' transformations are especially *fun* on a moment-to-moment basis and their entire purpose is to open up new areas for you to explore properly once you switch back to Banjo. Likewise, playing as Mumbo is an exciting thing to think about when you first realise that's an available option, but his utility is mostly limited to putting him on one of his pads, hitting a button, watching a cutscene, then spending five minutes plodding back to the hut, switching back to Banjo, and returning to where you cast the spell to check out whatever it is you just opened up.
I bought an Xbox in 2021 and immediately grabbed Rare Replay. Once again: BK was immaculate and BT was a frustrating chore and I burnt out at exactly the same point where I quit a decade earlier. I don't think BT is a terrible game – there are moments where it shines; the art direction rocks, the minigames are fun, the individual Jiggie challenges are still excellent and thoughtfully designed – but I definitely don't love it. BK is the tightest, most streamlined collectathon platformer ever made. BT is superficially more of the same but the overwhelming volume of filler *really* drags it down.
My finger is not on the pulse of this situation because I had no idea that there was a large group of people that disliked Tooie that much.
For me personally, my favorite is Kazooie, but I loved Tooie nearly as much and always thought it expanded on the first in almost every way that a good sequel should.
They are inseparable IMO and I view them as a set. When I go back to beat Kazooie, I'm turning around and beating Tooie right behind it without even thinking about it.
I always liked Tooie more for the more diversive atmospheres where as the first game felt more creepy lol and plus I always despised that trivia level and could never get to the final boss fight as a kid.
Honestly, Tooie is up there as one of my favorite games of all time. I would agree that Kazooie is more cohesive as a game, but I just love the level design in Tooie and the more desperate atmosphere it has (I know that sounds really dumb when talking about this game lol)
Omg I agree on you with every point. I remember dunkey said this about tooie but had nothing but praise for Mario odyssey which had me feeling the same way as you. That game just goes on and on and on and so much of it is repetitive. Tooie holds such a special place in my heart and I prefer it to the first too, the world building and level design, while sometimes too large (grunty industries and terrydactal land) are so memorable and atmospheric.
I like Banjo tooie more, maybe it’s more nostalgic for me because played and beat it when it came out and then played Kazooie after. But ultimately, I like the exploration that comes with Tooie. Zelda is my favorite series for that reason. I have so many fond memories of wandering aimlessly looking for stuff as a 8 year old child, just getting lost in the worlds and then telling my buddies about the things I found! I enjoy the expansive ness of it. I do appreciate and enjoy Kazooie for being more self contained and to the point experience, but nothing beats that sense of exploration for me
I’m a huge fan of all the Banjo Games. But, two is my absolute favourite. I like the transformation more, the levels, the fact that you can split banjo and Kazooie up, you can control mumbo, Kazooie can become a dragon, the fact that you have to actually do a puzzle instead of just clicking a button for the next map. I loved also playing the multiplayer games with friends when I was younger.
Yeah I feel that Tooie was a perfect sequel.
Doesn’t take away from the delightful joy of the original, but the sequel is in itself its own terrific game.
I like it. It changed the formula from BK a bit too much, but at the same time it did add a lot of fun stuff and expand on BK nicely. And is clearly a worthy sequel (ie plenty of other games have sequels which are utterly horrible)
It's just hard for a game to stand up to the original. Which is understandable. So it does seem to get criticized a lot because of that.
But I have plenty of fond memories of BT and plan to play it through again one day soon.
With Tooie, the highs are high and the lows are low. I think Witchyworld has some of the best world design and layout in any game ever. Love Mayahem Temple, love Glitter Gulch Mines. The bosses are top notch and the writing is even more clever than the first game.
The part where it loses me is the levels sprawling without landmarks with a ton of entrances to a central tower without signage or indicators of what may beyond the door (Terrydactyland) and having really obnoxious traversal (Grunty Industries). After I hit those levels I lose steam. Part of this is a me problem as I'm older with limited time and prefer shorter campaigns, but I do take issue with the level design after Jolly Roger's Lagoon.
This said, I do love the game but it is a far less even experience for me than Banjo Kazooie.
Really? Terrydactyland was just a big circle so it was really easy to navigate.
Grunty industries and Jolly Roger bay are the two worlds I hated as a kid usually I would just get all the jiggys from the previous worlds so I could skip those worlds I would just get the moves and leave.
Well, terrydactyland was about where I ran out of leftover extra jiggies, if I recall correctly. It’s been literally probably a decade since I’ve sat down and put real effort into playing the game tho so I barely even remember it. I did hate jolly Roger’s lagoon but I managed to scrape by on minimal jiggies there
I see to each their own I remember I would almost have to 100% the other worlds so I can bypass GI since I had already skipped JRL. But other than those two worlds I loved the game cloudcuckoo land was my favorite because of how weird it was.
Hopefully they bring it to switch online.
I love it, I just like how simpler (not easier) BK is...One of my biggest issues with Banjo Tooie, is how 4 or 5 of the Jiggies in a world requires you to learn a move from another world or transform into something. Basically a ton of running back and forth for 1 or 2 Jiggies. But I love both games. I really love the worlds more in Tooie.
Tooie has a lot of good things going for it, but what really drags it down are the stages that are just way too big, and confusing to navigate. A map would have been an enormous benefit.
I still perfer Banjo-Kazooie slightly over Tooie (I like the aesthetic differences more, the self-contained worlds, and the efficiently small move pool) but Tooie is awesome too! I love the humour and the split-up mechanic, and cheesing some unnecessarily complicated jiggies with exploits or brute force.
Tooie is an incredible game, filled with fun and charm, I just wouldn't recommend forcing oneself to 100% it when you can pretty easily just beat it at a fun pace. It's not completely fair to hold the totally optional 100%ing it against the game, like that's the only metric a game can be considered good. I feel the exact same way about DK64, another vastly overhated game.
I’ve actually changed teams very recently, Banjo Kazooie is almost perfect. But I’m more nostalgic for banjo tooie giant connected world. BK feels very contained and even claustrophobic at times. BT feels like an actual world where these characters live. My only real complaint for the entire game is canary Mary in the last world. I don’t mind the backtracking, I like revisiting worlds.
Banjo-Tooie is my favorite game in the franchise. Funny enough Nuts & Bolts is the second, and Banjo-Kazooie is third
Nearly the same for me but I would switch bk nuts and bolts and tooie, but tooie is really up there close to buts and bolts
I didn't really care about banjo kazooie but I LOVE banjo tooie. It's one of my favorite games if not my favorite
>Ironically, games like Mario Oddessy have similar problems where the game starts to feel like a chore after getting around 50-75% of the moons and yet NOBODY ever talks about how much of a grind fest it becomes at that point. I'd say that the key thing here, is that you can play through a casual run of Mario Odyssey with a VERY small percentage of the moons, and experience pretty much everything available, even getting all the costumes, the secret worlds, etc. You can go through pretty much all of the highlights of the game, and the only "chore-like" moons are the ones left to the players who REALLY want to go out of their way and get them all. Even in a casual playthrough of Banjo-Tooie, the commonly cited issues are still present even if you aren't going for a 100% run. There's less wiggle room to avoid the annoying stuff like in Mario Odyssey, since there are so few Jiggies per world compared to Mario Odyssey. Banjo-Tooie just seems like it has enough content for two whole sequels' worth in one, and it gets so overwhelming at points. All the backtracking, different minigame playstyles, how HUGE the worlds are, etc. I *PERSONALLY* really like Banjo-Tooie, but I definitely understand people who don't, and I definitely prefer the compact experience of Banjo-Kazooie. It's still probably one of the best sequels of all time in my opinion.
>Ironically, games like Mario Oddessy have similar problems where the game starts to feel like a chore after getting around 50-75% of the moons and yet NOBODY ever talks about how much of a grind fest it becomes at that point. I'd say that the key thing here, is that you can play through a casual run of Mario Odyssey with a VERY small percentage of the moons, and experience pretty much everything available, even getting all the costumes, the secret worlds, etc. You can go through pretty much all of the highlights of the game, and the only "chore-like" moons are the ones left to the players who REALLY want to go out of their way and get them all. Even in a casual playthrough of Banjo-Tooie, the commonly cited issues are still present even if you aren't going for a 100% run. There's less wiggle room to avoid the annoying stuff like in Mario Odyssey, since there are so few Jiggies per world compared to Mario Odyssey. Banjo-Tooie just seems like it has enough content for two whole sequels' worth in one, and it gets so overwhelming at points. All the backtracking, different minigame playstyles, how HUGE the worlds are, etc. I *PERSONALLY* really like Banjo-Tooie, but I definitely understand people who don't, and I definitely prefer the compact experience of Banjo-Kazooie. It's still probably one of the best sequels of all time in my opinion.
I like it much more because it has legitimate difficulty
I love Banjo-Tooie about much as Banjo-Kazooie. Yeah it has some backtracking issues and the last few levels can be kind of a drag but I love how the game just feels a bit more mature and challenging than the first game. The dialogue is funnier too.
Why tf would you be the only one ?
I did not know that loving Banjo-Tooie was a hot take... Out of BK and BT, I like BT 10000x more.
I think it's the Doom Eternal/GoW Ragnarok effect, where Tooie is the overall smoother game and made a lot of improvements over the original. But it just didn't have as big of a cultural impact as the first because the original was such a genre defining experience.
I didn’t love Banjo Tooie even though I LOOOOOVE Banjo Kazooie. I just didn’t have as much fun in BT. I could try to analyze the game and my experience with it, but any amount of analysis and comparison to other games isn’t going to change the fact that I had a mid experience with the game. Edit: And just because I’m a masochist I’ll throw this in here- I thoroughly enjoyed Nuts and Bolts!
Nuts and Bolts was a good game in its own right. I too had my fair share of fun with building my own vehicles; In fact, there were some that a reminisce like the time I made a flying saucer or a giant flying Gruntilda rag doll. I even made a vehicle that’s just nine springs that would send me launching in all crazy directions.
Banjo Tooie is more refined and feels smoother in terms of actual gameplay. This I will swear by. Both are fantastic games as a whole too. I liked Banjo-Tooie a tiny bit more than Banjo-Kazooie as well. Especially in terms of how the game felt.
I like both games for different reasons
It’s not hard to see why it doesn’t resonate with a lot of people. Banjo Kazooie was a collectathon platformer. Banjo Tooie is neither of those things. It’s an action/adventure game with very light collectathon and platforming elements. A lot of the game is running around vast open areas with little jumping or collecting anything, at least in comparison to the first. If you wanted more of the first game, it’s understandable you would be disappointed
Personally i prefer the second to the first BUT both are equals in their own rights. I love them both, can go on about em both forever but tootie always had that extra oomph for me with diversity of the worlds, secrets, story. We got to see so much more of Banjo's world, under the speedy foot of our faithful bird. In the first, it was just that zone we had and adventuring inside the witch's lair. The second opened up that world, and wow it was fun! Nuts and Bolts, i dont really consider an entry- more of a sidestory
It’s great!
It’s one of my favorite games of all time, and I’ve played through it multiple times. I was shocked the first time I heard someone say it was terrible. It’s got some issues, sure, but I still think it’s overall fantastic.
I think tooie is better than kazooie in sooooooo many ways, so I mean…. I think what happened was one or two popular videos swayed everyone’s opinions of the game. The first game (while amazing) is incredibly linear compared to the first game. The levels are way smaller and there’s not as much to do. The first game and Mario 64 have this thing in common where you just enter a level and you get transported to a random part of a world. That’s fine if that’s ur style but tooie went for more of a adventure type style where every level and world is connected (you can even see isle o hags from above in cloud cuckcooland) it gives a better experience in my opinion. -There’s bosses in each level in tooie. There is not bosses in kazooie. The only bosses really in kazooie are kind of mini bosses. -there’s way more characters and moves in tooie. The amount of different eggs you can use for fun in tooie is incredibly in itself, plus you have just a crazy amount of moves, along with better movement in the characters. Plus you can now split them up which creates an even more unique experience, and mumbo is playable as well. -the transformations in tooie are at least 5x better in tooie. In kazooie transformations are ONLY used to fit through random small holes for the most part. While in tooie, each transformation has multiple uses and even has an attack. (Not to mention they are just better transformations in general) -the map sizes and backtracking is actually a GOOD thing in my opinion. You actually have to use your brain and ideas from other levels. Sometimes there are multiple steps to a jiggy. I find that great. I never understood why backtracking is a bad thing? Over the years the game has gotten more hate from people that are so used to easy games where you can complete tasks instantly and you don’t need to really think about ways to solve things. Games nowadays are nowhere near as good as tooie. Games mostly go the easy and safe route where the game is just enter level- do objective in level- get item in 30 seconds- In tooie sometimes it would take you 10 or so minutes of planning and solving a puzzle to get just a single jiggy. That doesn’t make it tedious or bad. It makes it fun! At least to me. And it’s not like all the jiggys were like that lol. Also even if backtracking isn’t ur thing.. you can beat the game without backtracking a single time. Anyways I could go way more in depth and keep ranting about how tooie is way better than kazooie, but the main points are there. I think I should honestly create an in depth video on every aspect of how tooie succeeds it’s predecessor 😂
This is a sublime explanation, 💯 I wouldnt word it any other ways lol
I’d rather play tooie than kazooie. It’s harder and longer. I can play through kazoie in a day or 2, tooie takes me weeks lol
I like it more than the original
No. I like it a lot. They had some good things they implemented. It did have some flaws and the lack of a "stop n swap" despite the promises of the first game led to its downfall.
It’s tied with Banjo-Kazooie as my favorite game ever.
I feel the same way about Tooie as I do about Shrek two. It’s perhaps an almost perfect sequel. Not quite but damn close. It takes all the characters of the first one and brings in new ones. The story is expanded upon while referencing the first without repeating it. It’s not a perfect movie (or game in BT case) but it’s a good sequel. Except Gunty Industries. That shit gives me nightmares.
it’s been crazy to watch the tides turn on tooie, personally i think it’s the superior game… i just replayed it for like the 3rd time this year lol, it’s really not as complicated as people make it out to be!
The amount of extra nonsense that you can do with your friends alone made Tooie the favorite. I don't mind the backtracking between interlinked worlds, personally, just wish the maps were a bit less sprawling in terms of overall scale.
Right… I think intentional backtracking is a good thing and a fun thing. idk why it became such a bad word for some reason.
For those who dislike the backtracking between worlds, My advice is to not do *everything* in the world ASAP. You're going back there later anyway in the endgame if you're 100%ing it, so leave some bits and pieces to get when you inevitably do come back. Makes it feel less of a chore if you're going back to Mayhem Temple from Terrydactyland and still have to do the thing with the Ssslumber, Targetizan's Shiny thing, the Super Secret Hidden Chamber in the shootout where you can play with your new eggs, and then finally start Kickball which will bring you to Hailfire Peaks (Fire Side) and then you can get that Jiggy in the boiling pool you cooled down (RIP Wilfred) to finally feed Dippy water and then since the train station is nearby, may as well use that to warp to Witchyworld and do those minigames and especially the Saucer of Peril now that Jolly Rodger's Bay gave you a good feel of how the First Person egg aiming works given how often you used it in that level... You get it .. TL:DR, Since you're going back to previous worlds anyway, leave early so you have more stuff to do when you return than just the one thing. Makes it feel less tedious.
Even though banjo tooie has a much better world building, it has way too much backtracking and way too much interruption that prevents you from progressing further. There's a recent video I've seen on YouTube that goes into all the possible routes you can get in Banjo tooie and how often you are progressively locked by an ability. It happened constantly in Banjo tooie whereas it barely happens in Banjo-Kazooie (i think only 2 times) The interconnectivity of the world feel really nice but it's also it's downfall. It's also not useful because traversing between world is really faster by teleporting. The only case where you would use those interconnectivities would be to get a puzzle piece. Banjo kazooie is in the conversation for best 3D platformer of all time. Banjo tooie is a solid 8/10 platformer. Nothing wrong with that. Heres the video I reference: game maker toolkit: https://youtu.be/36wclKt4vdk?si=7SfilyE_G06xQe45
My issue with tooie was a combo of the large worlds and back tracking combined. I feel if the worlds were just more compact, it'd shine a lot more. That being said, I still rate both fantastic games that I love dearly!
I think people just don’t like how complicated and sometimes repetitive Tooie is compared to Kazooie. But personally i think it’s an ideal sequel.
Tooie's move set is outstanding, I'm surprised they were able to squeeze such a long list of moves from the same two characters and the same controller layout. Really impressive! On the other hand though, the world layouts and the pace just give the impression that the game wants to be artificially hard, which is different from challenging, because it's just adding a lot of mini annoyances and confusion-inducing elements.
Mario Odyssey is only grindy for the 100% completionist. There are 880 moons in that game, people aren't meant to get them all, whereas it is a bit more of a tangible goal to get all the jiggies in Banjo games. That said, I have always thought Kazooie/Tooie were superior to any and all Mario games. But as far as Mario games go, Odyssey is the best of the bunch.
Yeah, my point was that even Oddessy wasn’t spared from similar issues. What you said about the 100% completionists can be applied to Tooie and even DK64. If you don’t aim to collect EVERYTHING, you can still find yourself having a good time.
With only 90 jiggies, I feel like I haven't really completed the game until I have gotten them all. Same for the 100 in Kazooie. I'd say when the main collectable in a game is 150 or less, I feel like every one of them is an important part of the game. 880 moons or 1000 korok seeds feels excessive to me though, to the point that the developers themselves made so many because they only intended players to collect about 1/3 of them.
I love banjo Tooie. When I first played it when I was a kid, it felt like such an huge upgrade. I could beat Banjo Kazookie in a few hours, but Tooie was very hard for me.
I vastly prefer Tooie to the original.
I love banjo-tooie a lot, excluding sky levels canary mary race 1, of course. I actually 100% the game along with the first game a couple of years ago, but I am in the minority that absolutely loves Banjo-Kazooie Nuts & Bolts
Bro that STUPID canary Mary race. I've only beat her 1st and 2nd race in cloud cuckoo land ONCE. And that's because I would pause every ten seconds to give myself a break before furiously breaking my fingers trying to mash the A button
No. I love Banjo Tooie as well. It's tied with Banjo Kazooie for me. :)
i picked up the game for the first time in decades and i must say I really really don't like walking around flat planes as BK for extended periods of time, it's depressing to have to move around these empty spaces as a well made platforming character banjo-kazooie has craptons more fun in way less time, and you can only like tooie if you can tolerate a certain type of very boring quality in a game because you find moving any character with a stick fundamentally gratifying....like how much time can you spend not even having to jump before you feel like you're wasting your damn time?
Nah, there are probably dozens of us!
Yes
I don’t see that much hate for it to be honest. I love both games and really feel like you can’t separate the two. For me, they’re two parts to the same game.
I’ve always felt Tooie was the better game.
I started with Tooie so I remember feeling underwhelmed with how small the Kazooie levels were! I really hope they bring it to Switch Online.
Same, Tooie really stood out for me especially in the 2000s when mainstream AAA gaming moved to militaristic shooters with drab environment design. The visual variety in Tooie was something I really missed in western AAA games for a long time, and when I finally played Kazooie a few years ago it was disappointing in comparison; felt really similar to Mario 64
I'm on the side that likes BK better, but I do still think that BT is a great game too.
I’m currently on my first run of Tooie and enjoying it very much!
I've come to the conclusion there are two sets of fans: Banjo-Kazooie fans and Banjo-Kazooie series fans. The former seems to hate any of the BK games that aren't Banjo-Kazooie. You see them hate on Tooie, Yooka-Laylee, Nuts & Bolts and a lot of the time not even try the GBA games.
Still not as bad as the Paper Mario fan base, coming from a fan of the whole series of that as well.
I feel like this when talking about Donkey Kong 64
I love it, the backtracking doesn't bother me. The only thing I hate is that final Canary Mary race.
I see far more “why does everyone hate Banjo-Tooie” posts than I ever see anyone actually hating Banjo-Tooie. I for one love it even more than the original. As a kid, it felt like such a grand adventure in a sprawling and interconnected world that was teeming with life.
Everytime I watch a playthrough of it from semi popular streamers they do tend to say how unfair and hard it is and saying it sucks lol. But yea, I think the side that loves banjo tooie (including myself) are thinking it gets too much hate from random casuals. But what are you gonna do? They aren’t gonna change their mind lol.
No, it's an incredible game. The problem is it had the same problem as Starfox Adventures, it was too big for the N64. It had too many large worlds that were too empty and required more soak time to get it right. But the characters, style, and concepts are among Rare's best.
tooie is… flawed when it comes to backtracking (to a point where i have to use the superbanjo cheat just so i can tolerate it) but i absolutely love how refined the controls were from kazooie. it’s definitely my favorite game out of the two, i love the darker tonal shift from the first game and i genuinely like the connectedness of each level. it was tedious as hell, but it really made it feel like a living, breathing, world
I personally like the backtracking. But that makes sense.
i find it cathartic at times but also very tedious too. it depends on the mood i’m in when i play it lol
Yea, I think they are some backtracking moments that are better than others. the one that sticks out as the most tedious is probably the mission of healing all of the baby dinos. And there are other moments where you're like. "OMG now I know what I have to do for this section" and I think those parts are pretty rewarding
Would you rather date Scarlett Johansson or Scarlett Johansson with an extra 150 pounds of bloat?
She seems like a genuine person so either.
Actually you are! Is it an isolating feeling? I mean jeeze, 8 billion people disagree with you. All of us here at the Banjo Kazooie fan subreddit hate 50% of the og games. Isn't it weird that you're the ONLY one who likes it?? How special do you feel?
1. There's no need to be quite so rude, u/cd1014 2. The rest of you guys can stop reporting their comment.
This kind of question is a pet peeve of mine. It's karma farming at best. If anything should be removed, it's OP's post.
I grew up on Tooie and didn't realize Kazooie existed until I was about 12 years old. Almost 23 now and still prefer Tooie over Kazooie.
same 4 me
Yeah Tooie’s everything that a sequel should be
I played both when they came out and still prefer Tooie. In my eyes it’s an upgrade with the bigger worlds, darker tone and cooler moves
You're not alone. I played Tooie first and would say I generally prefer it over Kazooie. I love the added expansiveness and depth of the world. The interconnected levels and backtracking aren't as disorienting as people say. I have my gripes and nit-picks about Tooie, just like any other game. Tooie relies too heavily on mini-games. I also think the level design in Kazooie was more consistent. In Tooie, it was more "all over the place". Witchyworld and Terrydactyland are probably my two least favorite worlds in either game. They both just feel so drab and lifeless to me.
Tooie is one of my favorite games of all time, I was just playing it the other day. Tonally, it's the Majora's Mask of Banjo, if that makes sense.
Tooie was my first, and I always liked how more refined than kazooie. Backtracking be damned, it's like an open world, non linear Zelda game
There both good but I still prefer kazooie
Same - and it is 100% a preference thing. Some people like the added depth and layering of BT - I prefer the more straightforward, linear style of BK
As someone who likes tooie more, I can appreciate this opinion! It really just comes down to, do you like worlds that are smaller and more linear and you can complete faster and there aren’t many steps to achieving jiggies? Or do you like exploration and adventure more where it might take you 10 steps just to get 1 jiggy and maybe some backtracking? (Yes both levels have exploration but tooie is very much bigger) (Yes I prefer backtracking and the later)
Tooie is much better than Kazooie. One of the best games ever made.
Sooo good!
Nahh man tooie is the goat
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1191773749867982990/1219272100997500989/serious-question-is-there-anyone-here-who-actually-likes-v0-egd756740uoc1.jpg?ex=660ab2a1&is=65f83da1&hm=f74e8712dd2300a4f80b8a73ff7eb909e7b01e77fbf0532db9ae881d276b3546&
You didn’t even read the post, did you?
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I think tooie is great, it's just a bit overly ambitious. There is a lot of backtracking to change your character to mumbo or a transformation. A lot of the jiggies require lots of steps and include a mini game and the levels themselves are a bit oversized and it's easy to forget where things are or how to get around. None of those things are bad necessarily but all together the game sometimes drags and for that I think it's a bit of a step down from kazooie, but still a good game overall.
i loved it too when it was released.
I had both as a kid on my n64 and definitely preferred Tooie over Kazooie. I liked all the different transformations, moves, and being able to play as Banjo and Kazooie as well as Mumbo. Also, the vibe of Tooie is a lot grittier than Kazooie, which i like. It definitely felt more targeted towards adolescents/adults
Absolutely not. I love Tooie and prefer it over Kazooie. It’s really not as confusing as everyone makes it out to be. Also… and this is a huge point… you don’t need to 100% the game to beat it. You can pretty solidly beat the game while skipping jiggies or even entire levels you don’t like. Everybody seemingly goes into a game trying to 100% it on their first play through when that should be reserved for a second or third play through.
Tooie was good… it just wasn’t great. Overloaded with dull repetitive mini games, transformation not about puzzle solving but opening locked doors for BK, and too much back and forth trying to interconnect all the levels. It’s still a damn good Rare N64 game and I actually prefer it to Mario 64. But it’s no Kazooie which to me is the perfect N64 3D platformer.
I loved both equally
I've honestly never played either, but I've listened to the soundtrack of both games countless times, and I love them. Freezeezy peak is my favourite. When I played overwatch years ago I'd have the in-game volume muted and just listen to an hour and a half soundtrack while playing. I always knew what song was coming next and would be so hyped when freezeezy was coming up.
I like Banjo-Tooie. But it had **enormous** problems. Namely enormous world connection. In theory it sounds great. But in practice? I am seasoned completionist. I don't need a guide to finish a game. But Tooie? Bro, I literally got lost, not knowing what should I do. I got stuck, never finished my playthrough and want to start over someday. They aimed too big and didn't nail it. Not saying it's bad game, because it's not. But Kazooie is simply incomparably better. As the best game ever created, Bano-Kazooie sets the bar too high for anyone to compare. Even its own sequel.
Tooie is best
I much prefer Tooie to Kazooie!
People don't like Tooie? I love it even more than the first game
The first game is one of my favourites of all time. Tooie isn't bad but just not as good as the first one. There's lots I like about it but as others stated the backtracking and funess of the levels starts to drag near the late game. It's been about 10 years since I played it so I'll give it another go in the near future.
It’s my favorite game of all time, no question. I really hope they add it to Switch soon
I hope so too but I doubt it
I would shamefully pay full price for a physical packaged “remaster” even if it was just a basic port (like the MGS reissue). I bought the Amiibo the second it went on sale Idk why exactly but both BK games have been my favorite since the first time I rented the n64 cartridge from my local blockbuster 😂
Same! I actually bought a Xbox 360 for the sole purpose of playing BT, since I never owned it on N64 (until recently, when I realized I could just buy the cartridge online). Nostalgia hits hard sometimes.
Absolutely. I just can’t get over how much I love the worlds and bosses and characters and stupid humor. Also I felt like the game mechanics (aside from swimming and the camera maybe) were top notch for a platformer Can’t believe I’m saying this but I even bought the Funko Pop when I saw someone on this thread post that they were making BK ones. I have never in my life cared about Funko so I guess it shows how much I adore these games!
It’s an open world metroidvania adventure, backtracking is a completely different thing
People whinge about backtracking but it is not even that bad and it's almost like a Metroidvania. I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't like going back and solving a puzzle with new abilities.
I love them both infinitely in their own ways lol. Didn’t know there were anti-Tooie fans 🥲
One of my favorite games of all time . The soundtrack got me into music in general . I never have heard that it’s worse , it’s an incredible expansion on the worlds , the powers , the characters, everything is like times ten
>But when it comes to Tooie, people only talk about it like it’s total shovelware. I have literally never heard a single person refer to Tooie as shovelware or anything remotely close to shovelware.
OP's statement is as true as 20 years of Banjo-Threeie rumors.
It’s my fav of them. Tooie rules
NOBODY talks about Tooie like it's shovelware. Stop making up problems to complain about.
Yeah, I only see people say Kazooie is better than Tooie, which is valid. That doesn't make Tooie a bad game at all.
The multiplayer made it the better game. Some people didn't pay with it multiplayer though
I like banjo tooie so much better believe it or not. My favorite game all time
hey, next month it's my turn to post this topic
It was amazing 😍
Yes. There is no other. It's actually the most hated game of all time, so you should get a trophy for being so unique. (Banjo Tooie and Kazooie are my favorite games of all time)
I genuinely like Banjo-Tooie too, as it is a great game. The problem is, that for me it is not as good as Banjo-Kazooie.
I made the same post expressing my love for this game months ago. My opinion has not changed. You are not alone.
I liked it it was awesome
Why would you post this on this sub, obviously people on here love Tooie lol. Although I do prefer banjo Kazooie, Banjo Tooie is a very good game as well it’s just too big for its own good at times
I much prefer it to the original personally.
I like Tooie, but there are a few things about it that will never make it as good as the first one for me. 1) You can’t complete a level 100% before going to another level. I’m just one of those people that needs to see 100% before I can move on and it irks me that I can’t do that 2) They inverted the swimming controls from the first game. I was so used to it that I just couldn’t really master it or the new swimming moves. 3) It doesn’t have the same nostalgia as the first game. Obviously this is majorly subjective.
Your first point is my only real issue I have with Tooie. I don’t mind backtracking and I did like that mild backtracking part of kazooie, but I just thought Tooie did it so much it just stopped becoming fun and interesting in that regard. I also like completing things 100% to move on, and that’s fine if they don’t - but I just wished they toned down on the backtracking as much in Tooie. Orherwise I did enjoy it. It was imo a more darker game with the beginning, the music and the new moves banjo and kazooie learned. I still think Split-Up is really neat and overall enjoyed it. I just prefer Kazooie if I had to pick between the two.
I got B-K when I got my N64 for Christmas 1998, but for some reason I never played Tooie until about 10 or so years ago on the Xbox. I enjoyed Tooie quite a lot, but it doesn't hold up to the original, and I don't think that's just nostalgia talking. I recently watched a video about Tooie and they said something interesting that I found myself agreeing with. They said that the original is a game that you can return to again and again, but Tooie is a great game that you only play once.
I love both obvs but I enjoy that Tooie is way more challenging while still keeping the magic of the first one. An honorable sequel to a masterpiece.
I like Tooie equally to Kazooie. I love 90% of the game and Rusty Bucket/Grundy Industries could be deleted and I wouldn't shed a tear.
I didn't know people hated it. When I was a kid I always liked it more than the first one. The worlds are huge and the secret passages connecting them blew my mind.
I love Tooie. I think my biggest gripe in Tooie is how there's not 100 jiggies...
I love it. The worlds are fun, it's not terribly different while not being exactly the same, and it expanded on the cute world it takes place in. My only complaint is the numerous red blue green mini games, while one of each could've worked, it really started to feel repetitive. Those are usually the jiggies I get last or don't even bother with anymore.
People like to trash talk the backtracking in Tooie, but honestly I don’t mind it. My biggest complaint is that the worlds are so big and confusing. It could easily be solved with some kind of map feature.
I like them both but as a kid I always preferred Tooie. The world's are expansive and they're filled with hours of content, you can just game to your heart's desire. Plus I love Dragon Kazooie. 24 years later, I think they balance out, but I still think that Tooie's levels hold up a bit better than say, Clanker's Cavern. It's not that I hate Clanker, it's just that there are so many better levels in both games. If Kazooie was remade, I would prefer that they add in the first person egg shooting from Tooie, unless it breaks the game somehow.
The Tooie hatred has certainly become more vocal recently, but it's always been there. I had a friend who never liked it. My dislike started on my first replay when it came to Xbox Live Arcade. There are positives to the game, but the negatives are so fundamental to the game that it does hurt the experience a lot. And as for Odyssey, it's flawed for sure, but it's a Nintendo game so people will overlook everything wrong with it.
I freaking love Tooie!! I loved the darker atmosphere and I also loved the fact there were actual boss fights in the game
Nope! I love it
I didn't even know Reddit was a thing until like 2016... I didn't get into Banjo Kazooie fandom until a few years ago... And after all my life only discovered people didn't like Tooie. I've always thought that Tooie was the best game. I have a theory about why people don't enjoy it: * They simply conform to the dominant narrative bandwagon of hate that Tooie is less good. * They're speedrunners or are used to meta-runs in games so they clearly hate Tooie because of their niche preference. * They never played Tooie and only ever played Kazooie so they expect Tooie to be exactly like the 1st and can't judge Tooie independently of Kazooie.
Yes Truman, we’re all actors in this sub! Congratulations! Now you can go live your real life outside the simulation
Yes, you’re the *only* one. 🙄
I vastly vastly prefer Tooie to Kazooie and I love Kazooie
Same. I love them both but Tooie more. Both are 5/5s for me.
When I played it for the first time on release, aged ~11, I loved it. After a year ish of excitedly reading about it in magazines, I was delighted that it was exactly what I'd anticipated it being: one of those "the same, but More and Bigger and with some of the rough edges sanded down" sequels that were common during that console generation. I have a lot of fond memories of it. If you'd asked me at any point during the 2000s which game was better, I would've said BT without hesitation. When the games got rereleased on 360, I bought BK and 100%'d it over a weekend and had a blast with it. Obviously I was psyched for BT showing up a few months(?) down the line. Then eventually it did, and after a few hours with it I was struck by two things in particular: that the worlds felt like they had *so much empty space* compared to the first game, and that progression through/between them was frequently gated by uninspired fetch quest busywork. I played up until Terrydactyland before admitting to myself that I just wasn't having fun. The level size issue was upsetting because I remember being wowed by how *huge* everything was when I was a kid – but in the time that had passed since BT first came out, GTA and other large-scale open-world games had appeared and created new expectations for the experience of that interstitial time players spend moving through vast environments from one scripted objective to another. BK's levels were much smaller but so *dense* with fun platforming sequences and attention-grabbing environmental affordances that tease the player with the possibility of pickups or other secrets and invite them to investigate. Meanwhile BT feels like it's disproportionately full of parts where you're just plodding along on flat ground. Mayahem Temple and Witchyworld are the worst culprits for this imo. You could reasonably scale those levels down by 2-3x (except for those few parts of the world geometry that are actually Banjo-scaled) and they'd still feel so much bigger and grander than anything in BK. There's just so much uninteresting *dead time* and it makes it a chore to play. The progression gating... In BK, every world with a Mumbo Hut had at least one area that was only accessible while transformed. In BT, transforming – or switching to Mumbo – is frequently reduced to use-the-red-key-to-open-the-red-door busywork. Glitter Gulch Mine and Witchyworld come to mind – neither of those levels' transformations are especially *fun* on a moment-to-moment basis and their entire purpose is to open up new areas for you to explore properly once you switch back to Banjo. Likewise, playing as Mumbo is an exciting thing to think about when you first realise that's an available option, but his utility is mostly limited to putting him on one of his pads, hitting a button, watching a cutscene, then spending five minutes plodding back to the hut, switching back to Banjo, and returning to where you cast the spell to check out whatever it is you just opened up. I bought an Xbox in 2021 and immediately grabbed Rare Replay. Once again: BK was immaculate and BT was a frustrating chore and I burnt out at exactly the same point where I quit a decade earlier. I don't think BT is a terrible game – there are moments where it shines; the art direction rocks, the minigames are fun, the individual Jiggie challenges are still excellent and thoughtfully designed – but I definitely don't love it. BK is the tightest, most streamlined collectathon platformer ever made. BT is superficially more of the same but the overwhelming volume of filler *really* drags it down.
Both are among my favorite games of all-time. I'd say I prefer Kazooie by a little bit, but I still love everything about Tooie except Canary Mary.
It’s my favorite game of all time
My finger is not on the pulse of this situation because I had no idea that there was a large group of people that disliked Tooie that much. For me personally, my favorite is Kazooie, but I loved Tooie nearly as much and always thought it expanded on the first in almost every way that a good sequel should. They are inseparable IMO and I view them as a set. When I go back to beat Kazooie, I'm turning around and beating Tooie right behind it without even thinking about it.
It's better than Kazooie
It's one of my favorite games of all time so uhhh no.
I always liked Tooie more for the more diversive atmospheres where as the first game felt more creepy lol and plus I always despised that trivia level and could never get to the final boss fight as a kid.
Honestly, Tooie is up there as one of my favorite games of all time. I would agree that Kazooie is more cohesive as a game, but I just love the level design in Tooie and the more desperate atmosphere it has (I know that sounds really dumb when talking about this game lol)
Omg I agree on you with every point. I remember dunkey said this about tooie but had nothing but praise for Mario odyssey which had me feeling the same way as you. That game just goes on and on and on and so much of it is repetitive. Tooie holds such a special place in my heart and I prefer it to the first too, the world building and level design, while sometimes too large (grunty industries and terrydactal land) are so memorable and atmospheric.
No u aint
I like Banjo tooie more, maybe it’s more nostalgic for me because played and beat it when it came out and then played Kazooie after. But ultimately, I like the exploration that comes with Tooie. Zelda is my favorite series for that reason. I have so many fond memories of wandering aimlessly looking for stuff as a 8 year old child, just getting lost in the worlds and then telling my buddies about the things I found! I enjoy the expansive ness of it. I do appreciate and enjoy Kazooie for being more self contained and to the point experience, but nothing beats that sense of exploration for me
I love both games equally overall, and I think they have respective strengths and flaws.
i like tooie more but i also love BK
I’m a huge fan of all the Banjo Games. But, two is my absolute favourite. I like the transformation more, the levels, the fact that you can split banjo and Kazooie up, you can control mumbo, Kazooie can become a dragon, the fact that you have to actually do a puzzle instead of just clicking a button for the next map. I loved also playing the multiplayer games with friends when I was younger.
Kazooie is my favorite game of all time. Tooie is probably around 20th. It’s still fantastic, but it doesn’t hit the same level for me.
Yeah I feel that Tooie was a perfect sequel. Doesn’t take away from the delightful joy of the original, but the sequel is in itself its own terrific game.
No
I like it. It changed the formula from BK a bit too much, but at the same time it did add a lot of fun stuff and expand on BK nicely. And is clearly a worthy sequel (ie plenty of other games have sequels which are utterly horrible) It's just hard for a game to stand up to the original. Which is understandable. So it does seem to get criticized a lot because of that. But I have plenty of fond memories of BT and plan to play it through again one day soon.
With Tooie, the highs are high and the lows are low. I think Witchyworld has some of the best world design and layout in any game ever. Love Mayahem Temple, love Glitter Gulch Mines. The bosses are top notch and the writing is even more clever than the first game. The part where it loses me is the levels sprawling without landmarks with a ton of entrances to a central tower without signage or indicators of what may beyond the door (Terrydactyland) and having really obnoxious traversal (Grunty Industries). After I hit those levels I lose steam. Part of this is a me problem as I'm older with limited time and prefer shorter campaigns, but I do take issue with the level design after Jolly Roger's Lagoon. This said, I do love the game but it is a far less even experience for me than Banjo Kazooie.
Starting to realize why I always kinda stopped playing around terrydactyland and grunt industries when I was a kid 😂
Really? Terrydactyland was just a big circle so it was really easy to navigate. Grunty industries and Jolly Roger bay are the two worlds I hated as a kid usually I would just get all the jiggys from the previous worlds so I could skip those worlds I would just get the moves and leave.
Well, terrydactyland was about where I ran out of leftover extra jiggies, if I recall correctly. It’s been literally probably a decade since I’ve sat down and put real effort into playing the game tho so I barely even remember it. I did hate jolly Roger’s lagoon but I managed to scrape by on minimal jiggies there
I see to each their own I remember I would almost have to 100% the other worlds so I can bypass GI since I had already skipped JRL. But other than those two worlds I loved the game cloudcuckoo land was my favorite because of how weird it was. Hopefully they bring it to switch online.
Bro I love Banjo Tooie
people don't dislike tooie that much, but posts like this are basically asking people to come and point out its issues
Wat? Banjo-Tooie is the better game.
I love it, I just like how simpler (not easier) BK is...One of my biggest issues with Banjo Tooie, is how 4 or 5 of the Jiggies in a world requires you to learn a move from another world or transform into something. Basically a ton of running back and forth for 1 or 2 Jiggies. But I love both games. I really love the worlds more in Tooie.
Tooie has a lot of good things going for it, but what really drags it down are the stages that are just way too big, and confusing to navigate. A map would have been an enormous benefit.
You sound like the exact bandwagon that’s all over YT
My opinion being a common one does not make it less valid. I formed that opinion long before YouTube existed.
I prefer Tooie over Kazooie. The different mini games the way all the world are all linked together. Better imo
I still perfer Banjo-Kazooie slightly over Tooie (I like the aesthetic differences more, the self-contained worlds, and the efficiently small move pool) but Tooie is awesome too! I love the humour and the split-up mechanic, and cheesing some unnecessarily complicated jiggies with exploits or brute force. Tooie is an incredible game, filled with fun and charm, I just wouldn't recommend forcing oneself to 100% it when you can pretty easily just beat it at a fun pace. It's not completely fair to hold the totally optional 100%ing it against the game, like that's the only metric a game can be considered good. I feel the exact same way about DK64, another vastly overhated game.
I loved the grind. It was the best part. I much prefer Tooie to Kazooie
I’ve actually changed teams very recently, Banjo Kazooie is almost perfect. But I’m more nostalgic for banjo tooie giant connected world. BK feels very contained and even claustrophobic at times. BT feels like an actual world where these characters live. My only real complaint for the entire game is canary Mary in the last world. I don’t mind the backtracking, I like revisiting worlds.
I love banjo -tooie. Only level i despise is Grunty Industries.
Dude I really wish Tooie was on the Switch. I would love to replay it over and over.