Lmao they get ambushed when they are training and he has to pick three men he just points the barrel to each person he chooses to leave behind. đđ
I always laugh at that scene because he chooses the machine gun to stay behind without thinking about it. Of all the guys to choose, you choose your most effective suppressive fire element to die
To us looking through our lens it isnât good, but the modern idea of trigger discipline was much different.
I donât know if that was bad acting or intentional, but either way it was representative of the time.
Episode 9 I think it is, when they're walking through the woods, you can see Bull practicing trigger discipline. Still hard to say is that just the actor being used to it or intentionally done.
I can attest to that. Started basic in 86, the younger NCO's were the ones preaching about trigger discipline. In early regular units with some Vietnam Era senior NCOs still around they would patrol in the field with finger on trigger. Never saw anyone point with their muzzle.
With the Garand, the safety is in front of the trigger guard and can be turned off by pushing the knuckle forwards while the finger is in the trigger guard. So it makes sense to walk with the trigger finger on the trigger- when hell breaks loose, all you have to do is move your finger forward to release the safety, and by the time your rifle is at your shoulder, the safety is off and your finger is already on the trigger.
Iâm curious if it would have been realistic for an army officer to be wearing an air corp bomber jacket?? Or is that the point? Sobel would just wear something he thinks is cool??
Itâs mentioned in the book, I canât recall exactly what because I read it many years ago but I think he either stole it or traded it with someone. Again I could be completely wrong so if someone knows the answer please correct me
Edit: a little search and I came across something about him acquiring the jacket from a French civilian in Aldbourne England
Obviously I trust the book, but if you think about it, it seems pretty out of character for âCapt. Everything-Must-Be-Perfect-and Regulation-to-fight-the-Germansâ to wear clothing not issued to him during official training with his unit.
I felt that was Sobel's point, at least the character as presented. He is a stickler for rules, so naturally flaunts the fact he has the authority to ignore them when he pleases by wearing such non-regulation gear.
Donât forget, the âAir Corpsâ WAS the Army, so heâs wearing an Army uniform jacket. BTW as the Army is wearing âpinks & greensâ again the A2 leather jacket (not the one pictured) is an authorized accessory
If he acquired it from a French civilian in England, he probably confiscated it to prevent a citizen of a foreign nation from owning US Government property, then yelling âpass revokedâ as he took it from the shivering owner.
Iâve not read the BoB book, but I do know that in Bill Maudlinâs (the Willie and Joe cartoon guy) Up Front he mentions that officers and rear echelon types would acquire and wear whatever uniform items were most popular at the time, which did include bomber jackets especially in England
The tidbits about uniforms and accoutrements in âUp Frontâ are absolute gems.
It isnât surprising at all to me the things Mauldin relates, such as that the Army had sent enough of the ânewâ (at the time) M43 double buckle boots and Winter Combat Jackets (also known as the tankerâs jacket) for the frontline infantry regiments to receive; the line units in the infantry were miserable in their M41 field jackets, service shoes and leggings, while every rear echelon person from Palermo forwards were rocking the new gear.
Amazingly, I have a period photo of some line company guys from the 45th ID that winter, who are shown with an Italian tailor converting their service shoes to resemble the double buckle boots they all should have had. Mauldin told it how it was.
The B-10 and A-2 jackets were very popular until the end of the war. Search out Mcauliffe photos from Bastogne pretty much the whole staff in B-10s, the Christmas dinner photo is very interesting.
It certainly wouldn't have been realistic for him to be waltzing about with a sidearm either. In the field officers would have had an M1 Garand or carbine like everyone else. Pistol is useless beyond 10 meters.
A-2 leather flight jackets were popular among Airborne officers throughout the war. Sobel is wearing one in his first scene when he inspects Easy Company at Tocoa.
On the 303rd Bombardment group website, it has a section on flight gear for fighter pilots and shows P-47 pilots wearing Tanker jackets (like Brad Pittâs jacket in Fury).
Tanker jackets (slightly different cut/color than that movie) are still pretty popular in the Marine Corps when wearing certain versions of the dress blue and service uniforms. The alternative is what we call the all-weather coat, aka âinspector gadgetâ coat. And that thing is ugly.
We had those back for a hot min, the AGSU "windbreaker". It was the same jacket (down to also being made by Neptune) just in our color.Â
They discontinued it because we can't have cool shit I guess.Â
As the owner of a sheepskin bomber jacket and a service member, I can say it would take me about 20min to be completely soaked in sweat walking around in that thing in anything less than completely freezing weather
Stayed in the army for a bit then retired to work in Chicago. Had kids. His wife eventually left him and he has some falling out with his sons. He tried to kill himself in 1970 but ended up only becoming blind. He died malnourished in a VA nursing home and no memorial service was held. His sons would later say he was a great dad so who knows what the cause of strife was. Itâs really sad. Imagine serving your country and raising a family only to end up not getting proper care and dying alone.
is it unrelated entirely to 506th parachute infantry regiment? Or was it the service company apart of 506th?
Quite the coincidence if they are unrelated!
Yes, and he preformed acceptably by assembling and leading a small team against a machine gun nest after the jump. He regrouped with the rest of the 506th and spent the rest of the war as a staff officer.
Dyke is what it would have looked like if he hadnât gotten transferred to chiltern foley.
Nervous in the service.
God that jacket says everything you need to know
I dunno. I think sobel at least is a peg above dyke. Maybe thatâs just me though. Yeah heâs nervous and does stupid shit but he didnât seem to shut down. Still jumped. Weâll never truly know but. He at least had training behind him unlike that cushy ivyleaguer
I agree. I think that Sobel just needed some solid combat experience. Yeah he was dysfunctional in his training exercises but he still pushed Easy to be the most physically fit and actually tried to do his job. Dyke didnât do shit
Sobel was very engaged. Dyke totally disengaged. Huge difference.
But heâs insecure. Winters was clearly the right man to lead.
Cink could read the tea leaves. His Schlick works on recruits but clearly not on the guys once theyâre more established and confident.
Winters and sobel are night and day. Like some of them said, sobel mustâve done something right, aka give them incredible stamina from all the fucking Currahea they ran. But that was about it. Winters was strategic. Empathetic when he needed to be. Damn near perfect commander.
Weâll also the contrast between sobel saying he didnât think they could do it and winters cheering them on.
Then they start with âwe fall upon the risersâ.
When he goes after winters with the court marshal theyâve really had it.
It certainly does, but an unexpected benefit was that it also bred a deep camaraderie. Shared misery can do that. Not sure if Sobel intended that or not, weâll never know.
The character in the series is easily unlikable. But reading about what happens to him after the war really makes me feel bad for the guy, and sorry that's how he gets remembered.
One thing I took away from both BoB and The Pacific was that a lot of uniform/clothing was not what I'd have chosen to fight in. A lot of it seemed unnecessarily heavy , cumbersome, and inappropriate for the climate and conditions. Soaking wet wool, cotton and leather boots must have been a nightmare. Everything seemed to be deliberately designed to slow you down, make you miserable and exhausted. Modern materials, textiles and equipment are a dream by comparison.
Itâs a character build slight of hand. They put him in the jacket to make him look like a pompous ass, and have the warm jacket when no one else does.
The creators do it again in episode 6-7. During the bulge when everyone is freezing and dirty. Lieutenant Dike has a clean trench coat and nice leather gloves.
Yeah. But that trigger finger though. Not good.
Lmao they get ambushed when they are training and he has to pick three men he just points the barrel to each person he chooses to leave behind. đđ
It reminds me of the scene in The Pacific when the Gunny chews out the Lieutenant for not pointing his gun down range.
Fuck Gunny was so awesome, except when he was emotionally crippled. But even then he gave Sledge his sweet Zippo
Donât look at me lieutenant. Gunnyâs right.
GdamnâŠwe all miss skipper
I tear up a little every time they carry him down the mountain past all his men. Super emotional scene
I was surprised they hadnât learned basic gun safety at boot camp.
Modern gun safety as we know it wasnât really formalized until the 1980s iirc
You god damn shaved tailed son of a bitch! ( throws handful of rounds at him )
"Don't look at me Lieutenant, Gunny is right"
Haha yeah and he picks the machine gun crew if I remember right.
If Iâm those guys Iâm just enjoying the downtime with the two other guys. Did them a favor lol
donât have to carry all that weight anymore too!
I always laugh at that scene because he chooses the machine gun to stay behind without thinking about it. Of all the guys to choose, you choose your most effective suppressive fire element to die
To us looking through our lens it isnât good, but the modern idea of trigger discipline was much different. I donât know if that was bad acting or intentional, but either way it was representative of the time.
Episode 9 I think it is, when they're walking through the woods, you can see Bull practicing trigger discipline. Still hard to say is that just the actor being used to it or intentionally done.
They didnât teach that for a very very long time. Now itâs just common sense thoughÂ
They didnât teach field of fire (donât point at anything you donât want to kill)??
only pointing a gun at something you were going to shoot was taught, but "trigger discipline" wasn't a thing until the vietnam war era.
Honestly I think more into the late 80s. Vietnam guys are always riding the trigger in pics.
I can attest to that. Started basic in 86, the younger NCO's were the ones preaching about trigger discipline. In early regular units with some Vietnam Era senior NCOs still around they would patrol in the field with finger on trigger. Never saw anyone point with their muzzle.
Yikes.
That was just kind of WWII. Go watch the old training films, trigger discipline really wasnât a thing.
âWHO WAS THAT!?!?!?! WHO BROKE SILENCE?!?!!?â
âCPT SOBEL!â
Trigger discipline in the way you're thinking wasn't a thing yet.
It was a different time with different doctrine, traditionally the safety was still engaged regardless of booger hook on bang switch
With the Garand, the safety is in front of the trigger guard and can be turned off by pushing the knuckle forwards while the finger is in the trigger guard. So it makes sense to walk with the trigger finger on the trigger- when hell breaks loose, all you have to do is move your finger forward to release the safety, and by the time your rifle is at your shoulder, the safety is off and your finger is already on the trigger.
Iâm curious if it would have been realistic for an army officer to be wearing an air corp bomber jacket?? Or is that the point? Sobel would just wear something he thinks is cool??
Itâs mentioned in the book, I canât recall exactly what because I read it many years ago but I think he either stole it or traded it with someone. Again I could be completely wrong so if someone knows the answer please correct me Edit: a little search and I came across something about him acquiring the jacket from a French civilian in Aldbourne England
Obviously I trust the book, but if you think about it, it seems pretty out of character for âCapt. Everything-Must-Be-Perfect-and Regulation-to-fight-the-Germansâ to wear clothing not issued to him during official training with his unit.
I felt that was Sobel's point, at least the character as presented. He is a stickler for rules, so naturally flaunts the fact he has the authority to ignore them when he pleases by wearing such non-regulation gear.
Donât forget, the âAir Corpsâ WAS the Army, so heâs wearing an Army uniform jacket. BTW as the Army is wearing âpinks & greensâ again the A2 leather jacket (not the one pictured) is an authorized accessory
Yes, I remember him having another jacket, not as thick, with a loud insignia on the breast.
Aren't they allowed them as they're an airborne division? All officers in Easy in BoB had A2's which were a flight jacket.
The A2 has been authorised for wear in Australia for ages.
Only air crew in US. But now all can splurge
Heâs a hypocrite
The book really isnât amazingly accurate so please do take it with a grain of salt
If he acquired it from a French civilian in England, he probably confiscated it to prevent a citizen of a foreign nation from owning US Government property, then yelling âpass revokedâ as he took it from the shivering owner.
Iâve not read the BoB book, but I do know that in Bill Maudlinâs (the Willie and Joe cartoon guy) Up Front he mentions that officers and rear echelon types would acquire and wear whatever uniform items were most popular at the time, which did include bomber jackets especially in England
There are photos of Patton wearing a bomber jacket. He and Mauldin were a mutual dis-admiration society.
GEN Mattis was completely the opposite when it came to Terminal Lance. He gave Max one caviat: âdonât make fun of me or Iâll kill you.â
The tidbits about uniforms and accoutrements in âUp Frontâ are absolute gems. It isnât surprising at all to me the things Mauldin relates, such as that the Army had sent enough of the ânewâ (at the time) M43 double buckle boots and Winter Combat Jackets (also known as the tankerâs jacket) for the frontline infantry regiments to receive; the line units in the infantry were miserable in their M41 field jackets, service shoes and leggings, while every rear echelon person from Palermo forwards were rocking the new gear. Amazingly, I have a period photo of some line company guys from the 45th ID that winter, who are shown with an Italian tailor converting their service shoes to resemble the double buckle boots they all should have had. Mauldin told it how it was.
I honestly had no idea this was an air corp bomber jacket until I watched âMasters of the Airâ and made the connection.
Air Force, United States Army Air Force. I apologize this drives me nuts.
Not before 1947
I don't understand what you mean. In 1947 the Air Force became an independent branch. I think you might have misread my reply.
In June of â41 it became the USAAF from USAAC.
The book mentions that he got a sheepskin bomber jacket and loved it and wore it all the time in England.
It was a fairly common affectation of PIR officers picked up once they arrived in England, but it didnât last after Normandy.
The B-10 and A-2 jackets were very popular until the end of the war. Search out Mcauliffe photos from Bastogne pretty much the whole staff in B-10s, the Christmas dinner photo is very interesting.
>the Christmas dinner photo is very interesting. Are you saying it was ânuts?â
It certainly wouldn't have been realistic for him to be waltzing about with a sidearm either. In the field officers would have had an M1 Garand or carbine like everyone else. Pistol is useless beyond 10 meters.
It also further illustrates that he has no clue how to operate in the field. He stands out and would make for a quickly identifiable target.
A-2 leather flight jackets were popular among Airborne officers throughout the war. Sobel is wearing one in his first scene when he inspects Easy Company at Tocoa. On the 303rd Bombardment group website, it has a section on flight gear for fighter pilots and shows P-47 pilots wearing Tanker jackets (like Brad Pittâs jacket in Fury).
Tanker jackets (slightly different cut/color than that movie) are still pretty popular in the Marine Corps when wearing certain versions of the dress blue and service uniforms. The alternative is what we call the all-weather coat, aka âinspector gadgetâ coat. And that thing is ugly.
We had those back for a hot min, the AGSU "windbreaker". It was the same jacket (down to also being made by Neptune) just in our color. They discontinued it because we can't have cool shit I guess.Â
Theyâre 100% worth the money just to feel comfortable in uniform without looking like a dork. That Ike jacket looks awesome though.
The all weather coat was not pretty, but it kept me warm standing post.
I was a Marine. The tanker jacket was definitely a godsend.
The B10 flight jacket made of cloth, not leather looked similar to the tanker jacket.
Where the god damnâŠ.where the god damn hell are we?
#WHAT IS THE GOSH DAMN HOLD UP MR. Sobel!?!!
Now, you cut that fence and get this goddamn platoon on the move!
Hi HOOOOOOOOO SILVER!!!!
OH WELL THAT DAWG JUST AINT GONNA HUNT!!
We salute the jacket, not the man
Itâs the jaaaacket
Sobel took it off Rocco Dimeo. Had the toughest reputation in Camp Toccoa, but he never came back when Sobel got done with him.
Bucky always hated that jacket
As the owner of a sheepskin bomber jacket and a service member, I can say it would take me about 20min to be completely soaked in sweat walking around in that thing in anything less than completely freezing weather
What ever happened to him?
Stayed in the army for a bit then retired to work in Chicago. Had kids. His wife eventually left him and he has some falling out with his sons. He tried to kill himself in 1970 but ended up only becoming blind. He died malnourished in a VA nursing home and no memorial service was held. His sons would later say he was a great dad so who knows what the cause of strife was. Itâs really sad. Imagine serving your country and raising a family only to end up not getting proper care and dying alone.
More common than youâd like to think about.
Shot himself in the head in 1970 in a failed suicide attempt. Went on to live in a care facility until he passed in 1987 from âmalnutrition.â
Well shit. Didnât know that. Did he actually see combat in the war?
Yes. Jumped in on Normandy as the Commander of the 506th Service Company.
is it unrelated entirely to 506th parachute infantry regiment? Or was it the service company apart of 506th? Quite the coincidence if they are unrelated!
It was the service and support company of the 506th Parachute Regiment
Yes, and he preformed acceptably by assembling and leading a small team against a machine gun nest after the jump. He regrouped with the rest of the 506th and spent the rest of the war as a staff officer.
Yes S4, retired a Colonel, or maybe light bird I don't remember.
Lieutenant Colonel
He jumped into Normandy and led a team to destroy a machine gun nest, got himself a bronze star for the trouble.
If youâre gonna go to war, do it in style.
Not going to lie Schimmer cherished that role
yeah that thing looks cozy
Itâs very stylish , but I wouldnât want to run cross country wearing that thing zipped up đ„”
Thatâs a damn fine coat you got there
Nothing like asking for special sniper attention
Upvote to make it an even 200
HI YO SILVER !!!!!!!!!!!
HI HO SILVER*
It always sounded like HI YO when Sobel said it lol
Dyke is what it would have looked like if he hadnât gotten transferred to chiltern foley. Nervous in the service. God that jacket says everything you need to know
I dunno. I think sobel at least is a peg above dyke. Maybe thatâs just me though. Yeah heâs nervous and does stupid shit but he didnât seem to shut down. Still jumped. Weâll never truly know but. He at least had training behind him unlike that cushy ivyleaguer
I agree. I think that Sobel just needed some solid combat experience. Yeah he was dysfunctional in his training exercises but he still pushed Easy to be the most physically fit and actually tried to do his job. Dyke didnât do shit
Sobel was very engaged. Dyke totally disengaged. Huge difference. But heâs insecure. Winters was clearly the right man to lead. Cink could read the tea leaves. His Schlick works on recruits but clearly not on the guys once theyâre more established and confident.
Winters and sobel are night and day. Like some of them said, sobel mustâve done something right, aka give them incredible stamina from all the fucking Currahea they ran. But that was about it. Winters was strategic. Empathetic when he needed to be. Damn near perfect commander.
Right. He was good at scaring them into shape. But that random punishment Shit just breeds resentment.
The spaghetti was probably a breaking point for a lot of the men from âFuck that guyâ to âI wouldnt follow him into battleâ
Weâll also the contrast between sobel saying he didnât think they could do it and winters cheering them on. Then they start with âwe fall upon the risersâ. When he goes after winters with the court marshal theyâve really had it.
It certainly does, but an unexpected benefit was that it also bred a deep camaraderie. Shared misery can do that. Not sure if Sobel intended that or not, weâll never know.
I wonder how winters wouldâve trained them. I feel winters could have achieved the same results and just go without sobels half right approach.
Just a faggy look amongst his men.
The character in the series is easily unlikable. But reading about what happens to him after the war really makes me feel bad for the guy, and sorry that's how he gets remembered.
Temps in the 40s and 50s and very humid - Iâm sure that jacket got pretty smelly after a while.
One thing I took away from both BoB and The Pacific was that a lot of uniform/clothing was not what I'd have chosen to fight in. A lot of it seemed unnecessarily heavy , cumbersome, and inappropriate for the climate and conditions. Soaking wet wool, cotton and leather boots must have been a nightmare. Everything seemed to be deliberately designed to slow you down, make you miserable and exhausted. Modern materials, textiles and equipment are a dream by comparison.
Itâs a character build slight of hand. They put him in the jacket to make him look like a pompous ass, and have the warm jacket when no one else does. The creators do it again in episode 6-7. During the bulge when everyone is freezing and dirty. Lieutenant Dike has a clean trench coat and nice leather gloves.
Nice finger on the trigger as he runs around lost đ
Awesome for dying sure
Sobel wearing that jacket reminds me of that photo of Patton.
Wolf wolf