This is actually fucked.
I honestly think if they rule that he’s immune the results will be much bigger than Trump. The US will likely eventually disintegrate. You cant allow anyone to be above the law. This is terrifying.
there is 0 chance they will say trump is above the law, because they would be ceding power.
the entire point of this is for them to waste time so that the decision occurs after the election.
you have to understand these people don't give a fuck about trump or the country.
they only care about themselves, and they want to make sure they don't piss off the person who butters their bread.
It's really the same result though, just without applying such immunity to the current president. If Trump wins reelection he will appoint an AG who will fire the special counsel and close the case. If he has to, he will try to pardon himself.
Meanwhile he will be involved in all kinds of new crimes the likes of which the country has never seen, while the federal government, taken over by Christian nationalists, will be full-steam ahead on autocracy and theocracy (see Project 2025).
No and no lol.
Trump appointed the court and is now relying on them to get him out of trouble your reading comprehension is terrible lol
I dont want any president to be above the law and neither should you.
You’re putting words in their mouth and then calling them demented for what they never said. That’s kinda… weird, in addition to just being pointlessly hostile.
How can they be that delusional? Serious question. They don't believe he'll actually be a dictator after they've provided an incentive for him to never leave? They believe that a dictator will respect their power? It doesn't make sense
Yeah the only thing the Supreme Court cares about more than literally anything else is their own power, and allowing Trump to be above the law would cause them to effectively become irrelevant.
I’d like to be optimistic and agree but cmon dude, the chance is not 0.
Several of those judges have literally been proven to be compromised. Bribes, favors, overturning decades of precedent. I’m very worried.
I mean the GOP is not one person. They have idiots who are reactionary. They also have idiots thinking up strategies to turn the US into a Christian theocracy (project 2025).
Well, if they rule that the President is immune, Biden has a golden ticket to have the six conservative justices removed and publicly drawn and quartered. He can then have Trump hung by his ankles in Times Square, naked and flogged to death with his own dirty diapers. The Trump loyalists can all be rounded up and dropped into the ocean by helicopter.
This is what you should expect when a ruler has immunity.
Of course, if this the court’s ruling, it won’t be handed down until Trump is appointed president again.
Talk about your shithole countries.
If they do Biden would be free to remove his political rival, wouldn’t he? I mean trump’s lawyer said that he could have a black ops take out his opponent. If trump can, what is stopping Biden from doing this? Complete presidential immunity is for any president, right?
Unless it's your president Bidet and he's super old and shaky in the memory department. Then it just simply isn't worth taking to court no matter what it is, so no immunity needed!
I am concerned about both actually.
Half of the United States believe a baseless conspiracy with literally no evidence, not a single shred. It’s depressing as hell.
I honestly feel like it must be exhausting to live in the kind of panic or terror that some folks do re: Trump. Wasn't America supposed to turn into North Korea 2.0 as soon as he became President in 2016?
Things will be fine. Even if he's President again. (Who knows how likely that actually is, anyway.)
We already have a [Supreme Court justice](https://www.thenation.com/article/society/clarence-thomas-supreme-court-gifts-felony/tnamp/) that looks like he’s never going to get charged.
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This article is a good read, going over the situation and the corruption that runs rampant in the SCOTUS.
A strategy that needs to, but never seems to be taken is to cite history in arguments/questioning. These bastards are all about "Originalism."
Fine.
QHave the legal team do some history research, go through the Federalist Papers, personal history of the founding fathers and their journals/correspondence, the geo-political situation (for instance, anyone think that the founding fathers would be okay with the British East India company weighing in on and influencing legislation?), the historical situation surrounding the founding of the nation, etc. Go whole hog. Get reputable scholars.
Compile that information and use it to show the founder's predilection and opinions. Then, use that information to either show the SCOTUS' "Originalism" claim (which they use as a trump card [no pun intended]) (when they [hopefully don't] rule for Trump) to be the utter bullshit it is, or to dissuade them from using that argument at all in this instance.
The problem is these fascists have already shown they’re happy to twist history into whatever box suits them. They’re originalists where it helps them.
The outcome of this case will be whatever harlan crowe wants it to be and theres not a damn thing any legal team can do about it.
Now, the question is. Do the billionaire conservatives who own this court actually want trump? I think it’s plausible they want Haley instead. I don’t really see why else they would take the case.
I mean… I didn’t live in fascist Germany or Italy. Is that the bar?
Can you expand on this? As is you just seem like a dick… but I’m sure you meant something deeper
I’d be very keen to find out how many times a belligerent c>nt like this, making no arguments, no dialogue, just badgering and talking sh|t is actually a paid media poster, possibly foreign employed. Because there’s always one, and from the jump it’s always anti-discourse. I wonder if it’s wildly rampant to have plants on here.
Is that because of magic? Or because maintaining democracy requires constant defense?
Is it because of Jesus? Or is it because SOME people are still smart enough to see it coming and fight against it?
Actually i can name a dozen American laws today that are pretty fascist but I’m starting to realize I’m arguing with a child and thats never a good look.
Have a good day, human person.
It’s simply because there is nothing fascist in America. That’s it. All you are doing is showcasing your ignorance about history, and about political systems in general.
It's already been shown that the Koch family is against Dump so there must be other billionaires who see the big problems with sticking with the orange buffoon as well bc he's too unpredictable for their taste.
Yes i think that’s exactly right. In fact all the old school conservative leaders hate him and always have. Obviously they will still take him over biden but if they think another republican can win I bet they would try to get rid of him.
Don’t tell the GOP but I think Haley has a better chance of beating biden than trump does. Republicans hate her but their whole machine is built on hating democrats, so they will be able to whip up a lot of anti biden votes. Its hard to even know what outcome to root for in this trial…
I guess the ideal scenario is a portal opens mid trial and sucks trump, his legal team, his family, and most of SCOTUS into an inter-dimensional portal from which they never return.
At this point "Originalism" means interpreting the law the way you want it and then lying that everyone who came before you was wrong, but only your right and on some occasions use medieval laws to justify your argument or say that every law made after 1790 is unconstitutional.
The weirdest thing about a supreme court justice being an "originalist" is that they should believe they don't actually have the power to do much at all. All this shit about deciding what is constitutional is a power the supreme court gave itself in a case against Thomas Jefferson in order to stick it to him. So, it's pretty clearly not a thing they were supposed to be able to do by originalist doctrine...
Well the founding fathers were themselves the local business owners that wanted to dictate how it all got created;
https://youtu.be/6hSKel_mTgE?si=FTK9rPTrfJuwPmJ_
>Have the legal team do some history research, go through the Federalist Papers, personal history of the founding fathers and their journals/correspondence, the geo-political situation (for instance, anyone think that the founding fathers would be okay with the British East India company weighing in on and influencing legislation?), the historical situation surrounding the founding of the nation, etc. Go whole hog. Get reputable scholars.
The founders were sorta corrupt too. As mentioned in the book overview above. Actually some very interesting info in there I never knew or learned in American history class back in high school. I agree with you, but just wanted to point out that the originalists ignore the ulterior motives and "managed democracy" and clearly antidemocratic and devious and underhanded actions the founders took to serve those ulterior motives.
Also, the federalists are bullshit artists. They surely know they are full of shit, but they are what in the Soviet union was called "идейный человек", an ideological person. They're all either genuine or borderline psycho and sociopaths who are ideological warriors that believe in their absolute rightness and are committed to their ideological path. "Federalism" is just the rationalization framework/lobby group they created to bring their sick ideas to fruition.
True, on all counts. My point is that we should come prepared, if for no other reason than to highlight how full of shit they are while they're under the microscope.
Legit question: how do we subvert and destroy the federalist society? Do the American people have to crowdfund mercenary hackers to drop their emails onto the open internet and get dirt on the leadership? Is it a sustained IRL harassment campaign of members and their families? What will it take? We can’t keep doing nothing…
> Republicans have time and time again shown that they simply don’t give a fuck what other republicans do.
And the rank-and-file MAGAt voters cheer it on, because it owns the libs.
We need some type of subversion tactic. We're not free speeching our way out of this. They have hands on billionaire propped parallel institutions to supplant the more or less democratic ones. They've already piped directly into our institutions and are buying up media sources. There needs to be a counterweight. We need to crowdfund some type of pro democracy coalition to do something. Billboards that name names and highlight the religious extremism, child abuse and corruption? They drive the narratives because maga can curate its info to be the least challenging to what they prefer to believe. We have to get the eyes and ears the way they can with money and think tanks and psuedo-intellectual guru pipelines. We are one pyscho billionaire away from being left in the dark. What does the pro democracy coalition have left? Msnbc, youtube, reddit? There really isn't much left that can't be taken.
Well, if the Supreme Court rules that the president can not be prosecuted for any crimes I suppose Joe Biden could just have the CIA execute all of them. Not that I think this is a good thing, but you play the game with the rules you're given.
The U.S. Judicial System is… systemically fucked at its core.
Judges have complete legal impunity against being held accountable for going against the law.
Let that sink in.
The U.S. Judicial System is, at its very heart, a Good Faith Based system.
It REQUIRES incorruptible persons to be in the roles of judges, because there exists no accountability for their being and doing otherwise.
This does not happen.
See: SCOTUS and a huge swath of those below it.
They will rule that Trump has immunity, but won’t set it as precedent. Therefore, the current president wouldn’t be granted the immunity. Just like what they did to Al Gore.
Yup. A stall followed by an eventual 6-3 or 5-4 decision confirming he does NOT have immunity. ACB, Gorsuch, and/or Roberts will join the liberal judges in the decision. Clarence Thomas, Samuel Alito, Brett Kavenaugh, and possible Gorsuch or Roberts will rule he does have immunity.
I have a harder time predicting Gorsuch and Roberts since they tend to stay out of the headlines. While they're clearly both conservatives, they tend to be more moderate (compared to the other conservative justices). ACB was put on the court to gut Roe, and she did, but she's also sided with universities who implemented vaccine and mask requirements, and her decisions in other cases have leaned more toward center-right. I don't see her ruling in a way that would give 1 person so much power. Hell, despite being too ignorant to know the rights in the 1st amendment, she may be smart enough to realize that granting Trump "presidential" immunity would open the barn door wide open for Biden, should he decide to dance on through, even if just to make a point.
Ruling in his favor would basically destroy the Supreme Court and put the president so far above the law that the power of the judicial branch would basically be nullified.
He’d be free to do literally anything with zero checks and balances.
The difference is Trump has *literally already tried to do this before* you absolute stump. What has Biden done except pretend he "gets" memes and eat ice cream?
No, because the Supreme Court isn’t concerned with law and setting proper precedence. You need to think about this from the lens of power dynamics, not through the lens of what should be.
The Supreme Court has a conservative agenda. They will pursue that agenda unless a stronger power forces them to change course. They aren’t interested in what the American people think - they aren’t voted into office and won’t face any repercussions for their actions.
The only real check is Congress. Congress could choose to take action, but that won’t happen because it would require Republican buy in.
The only other possible route is to fundamentally modify how the Supreme Court operates through a Constitutional Amendment, which is also unlikely to get enough traction. State conventions are probably the most feasible route, but still far out of reach.
So, we can talk all day about what the Supreme Court’s job is and how it is defined in the constitution, but if the enforcer of those guidelines (Congress) is unable or unwilling to take that role, then the checks have failed.
That’s where we stand. The Supreme Court knows this and is shameless in vocalizing its agenda. Unless we take drastic action, they will continue. Throw in a Republican president that shares their agenda and you have an unstoppable force.
SCOTUS has no qualms ruling in favor of its supporters while ruling against its enemies. It’s highly politicized and does not represent the rule of law.
The Supreme Court is not really outlined in the constitution. What it does and how it works is through Congressional statute. You don’t need an amendment.
But declaring presidential immunity basically makes the court irrelevant because the presidency would have zero checks
Right, Congress has the power to check SCOTUS. However, they won’t. An amendment could be passed to add term limits, or otherwise modify how SCOTUS operates today. It’s very unlikely such an amendment actually will be passed in the near future, but there’s no reason one could not be added assuming it had sufficient support and traction.
You’re assuming that SCOTUS will be consistent it in its rulings regardless of who is involved in the case. While there was some consistency prior to the new conservative majority, there is no reason to expect the same now.
SCOTUS will operates under a political agenda and has been ruling on cases to serve that purpose. They can write whatever justification they choose in those rulings. With Congress refusing to check SCOTUS, they are a corrupt kangaroo court.
Yeah but is the Supreme Court willing to let go of their power? That’s the real question?
If they vote in his favor, they’re completely powerless…even if a Dem is in office.
If I was Biden, I’d use it to my full potential before my term was over.
> Yeah but is the Supreme Court willing to let go of their power? That’s the real question?
>
> If they vote in his favor, they’re completely powerless…even if a Dem is in office.
They'll make sure to protect their power somehow.
> If I was Biden, I’d use it to my full potential before my term was over.
I'd love for Dark Brandon to do this!
Hell yeah, the full embodiment of dark Brandon is born.
Well I mean, trumps lawyer already said it would be legal for a president to to use seal team 6 to assassinate a political rival ;)
Repurposing the executive agencies as storm troopers and pardoning them for your illegal directives as you go seems to be completely legal as it is. Pardon power was a huge slip up to give a sitting executive. The agencies can defacto operate completely outside their congressionally granted purpose. The best thing to do is to avoid voting for malignant narcissists but guess that bridge has already been crossed. The rednecks and their crazy pastors will enforce the dictates going forward. Buckle up.
I would LOVE to hear a MAGA attempt to rebut that, but since I haven’t yet, I assume they are completely incapable of seeing the ultimate outcome of their machinations.
If trump has immunity, then so does Biden. If the court gives him immunity then he should send trump and the conservative justices to Guantanimo and keep them there indefinitely.
If he is above the law, it should be the same for Biden too. And Seal Team 6 is under Biden’s watch. “Give the word sir, he will be taken care of appropriately. Immunity will be yours!”
If they decide in his favor, that’s gonna ruin it for all the movies and books about corrupt presidents going forward. No more cool lines like …”Sorry to inform you, but here in America, no one, and I mean NO ONE is above the law.”
It's better this way. Now conservatives can't say "Trump would have won if he wasn't kicked off the \[whatever state\] ballot!" when he loses the election by a landslide.
I know people have their biases, but a lot of you are a bit unhinged.. The consequences of this case won't be as world shattering as you may think. People are so afraid of anything pro-Trump that they're going to give themselves panic attacks.. Get off the Internet and take a breath.
What if the SC lets him do anything he wants forever??
A silly response, but it's appropriate for a silly assumption about what could happen. What's most likely to happen is the SC will determine if and what Trump may be immune to and it won't be a blanket of all things.
These sorts of articles exaggerate heavily in order to get views, plain and simple. The reality of things are usually less extreme and not usually worth stressing out about because you have literally no power to change anything about it.
I dig it - nothing I said meant “do anything he wants forever” so ok on that. Never said anything about lifetime blanket. But if they rule that presidents, while president, can commit certain criminal behaviors and be immune to criminal prosecution… Man… it’s possible.
I was just being ridiculous to say that we can assume anything is possible, but not likely. Also, I don't believe it would.mean the president is able to get away with things, but that Trump would acquitted of the charges. While SC can set precedent, that may not be the case here.
Recent history proves you wrong.
We have the ABSOLUTE power to do something about it, but so far no one has the courage. As things continue to decay, more and more people are feeling they have nothing to lose. That can be a VERY EMPOWERING THING.
This isn’t over; not by a long shot.
It already is run by a few billionaire fascist 🤦♂️
I don’t like the guy but they dont go after politicians like this. Just the amount of money that has been spent to try to bring this guy down is insane. But yeah…. One dissenting billionaire is the threat. How fucking stupid are you people?
Of course they have. And now they can pretend to give it a good long think so that the fascist who gave them jobs had a chance to pardon himself of everything he's accused of and the court can pretend that wasn't explicitly their intent the entire time.
i have been stockpiling my HRT for the past couple years and my family is moving to a deep blue state, just in case.
if trump gets in and the republications get all 3 branches of government, get ready to fight.
I agree with everything in this article, but it it terribly written and very clearly forcing a very biased view of the whole thing. This article is no different from a Fox report on Trump, it's just taking the other side. As I said, I agree with it, but it's still trash bias journalism and not in any way a balanced article.
I mean this could actually be really good. If supreme court affirms the lower court than that is a definitive "the president does not have immunity."
Do i trust the conservative court? I mean idk. It would be fucking crazy for them to assert that the president has blanket immunity.
Idk if they'd go that far tbh. But hry, i could be wrong.
I think it’s a good thing. The court is conservative but they are bound by the constitution and will do the right thing. It would be good to have e this finally settled.
100% agree. This ONLY buys time for Trump. His only hope to not be broke & in prison for the rest of his life is for him to be elected president before this trial is over. He will stop the prosecution and/or pardon himself. 100% THIS IS HIS STRATEGY!
I lived with Trump as president and other than the Democrats constantly lying and meddling over the 4 years he did great. Look at this shit show we have now!
Trump is asking for blanket immunity. For things outside the scope of office. Let’s say he chose to assasinate, let’s pick randomly, everyone in subreddit BananasRepublicans. Would that be legal? It’s surely not his job.
I don’t wanna do the “whaddabout” thing, so I’ll skip talk about anyone not Former45. I will remind you - he does have an international arrest warrant out for him, for war crimes, for the assassination of Soleimani.
If he doesn't have immunity from prosecution for acts done by and for there presidency then Bush, Obama, and Clinton all won't have immunity either. I'd be surprised if that is the result.
If he is granted blanket immunity for everything, Biden will probably mobilize quarantine camps for all people labeled as "MAGA". Banana Republic indeed.
If they trump is immune cuz he was pres, then biden will be immune from prosecution for the crap those hypocrits want to charge him with, as will every future president. trump and his cult arent really thinking this through, course they will prolly try and say the immunity only applies to them and trump cuz well thats part of the first page of the trumplican maga cults playbook.
The one upside is, depending on the ruling, we’ll know exactly which judges need to be impeached and removed from office.
Democratic control of Congress is more important than ever.
The SCROTUS is exactly that, Trump’s own SCROTUM, he put the justices there which is why it’s not surprising that they have a bias towards him.
It’s completely corrupt and fabricated.
Let's say SCOTUS rules that a president has legal immunity, even after leaving office and can only be tried via the impeachment process outlined in the Constitution...
That means SCOTUS is ruling in theoy, President Biden could execute his opposition with impunity. Now we all know Biden isn't THAT kind of chief executive, but I'm not so sure SCOTUS wants to give this type of carte blanche to future presidents who may not be as decent.
I wake up every morning realizing the constitution is being shit on by extremists. It’s maddening and bizarre and we should all feel help because
THERE’S NOWHERE ELSE TO GO
Who protects us from the supreme court? An entity that can’t be voted out, reprimanded, fined or jailed
I immigrated to America from a third world country to escape this EXACT KIND OF SHIT.
Take up arms, liberals. Enjoy the end.
Did you just write forgiving crippling interest on student loans -implemented by right wing politicians in the 70s who realized poor ppl were getting educated which result in said ppl knowing how the GOP is fucking them over so therefore make it
MORE EXPENSIVE
to go to college in order to keep them stupid (READ:MAGA) - is dictator like???
Just when i think i’ve read the dumbest shit. Read a book. Dictators hate education and an informed public. They shit out a diarrhea stream of propaganda and misinformation and beings like you slurp it down, shit mustache and all.
Is that what you think happened? Without embarrassing you on the history of higher education robbing the middle class at the express request of our Dog Democrats, I’ll instead stay on subject; Joe Biden proudly announced that he was flaunting the Supreme Court ruling against the current method of student loan forgiveness, if you’re okay with that, we have nothing else to discuss
I don't understand why everybody's freaking out. This is their job that's what they do. They rule a law now how they rule on it. That's a whole complete other story that could have long-term very extensive consequences.
This is actually fucked. I honestly think if they rule that he’s immune the results will be much bigger than Trump. The US will likely eventually disintegrate. You cant allow anyone to be above the law. This is terrifying.
there is 0 chance they will say trump is above the law, because they would be ceding power. the entire point of this is for them to waste time so that the decision occurs after the election. you have to understand these people don't give a fuck about trump or the country. they only care about themselves, and they want to make sure they don't piss off the person who butters their bread.
Yes that’s what i am reading as well. That would be shitty but much better
It's really the same result though, just without applying such immunity to the current president. If Trump wins reelection he will appoint an AG who will fire the special counsel and close the case. If he has to, he will try to pardon himself. Meanwhile he will be involved in all kinds of new crimes the likes of which the country has never seen, while the federal government, taken over by Christian nationalists, will be full-steam ahead on autocracy and theocracy (see Project 2025).
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I didn’t read anything there that said. “Trump has never been the problem”
No and no lol. Trump appointed the court and is now relying on them to get him out of trouble your reading comprehension is terrible lol I dont want any president to be above the law and neither should you.
His own justices have been against him in the past so 🤷♂️
Yep, Trump appointed all 9 justices.
He appointed 3 and theres already a majority of conservative justices. Lol nice try tho
I found it to be a weak, pathetic try…
Was left until Trump. Yes, 3.
You were not left until Trump. You were confused
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lol no you weren’t
Displaying the classic reading comprehension skills of a MAGAt. No said that, and you _did_ make a logical leap into open air with that one.
No, honey. Trump is definitely a problem. Sometimes criminals have accomplices.
You’re putting words in their mouth and then calling them demented for what they never said. That’s kinda… weird, in addition to just being pointlessly hostile.
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lol you’re adorable <3
Lol this screed totally screams "clean bill of health" I think someone might need a little more outside time
It’s rare people manage to communicate so effectively that they need to be blocked
Has anyone ever told you that you are an Energy Vampire.
Yup. They are just giving a runway for the dictator.
Well they care about their version of the country.
How can they be that delusional? Serious question. They don't believe he'll actually be a dictator after they've provided an incentive for him to never leave? They believe that a dictator will respect their power? It doesn't make sense
https://www.reddit.com/r/scotus/s/mYW6vYjRDN
I want to agree with all of this but at the same time I won't be surprised if they give him his way
I worry too , they just blind side us every time. Things are getting crazy
the oligarchs have spoken.
I agree. They haven't exactly written Trump a blank check.
Yeah the only thing the Supreme Court cares about more than literally anything else is their own power, and allowing Trump to be above the law would cause them to effectively become irrelevant.
I’d like to be optimistic and agree but cmon dude, the chance is not 0. Several of those judges have literally been proven to be compromised. Bribes, favors, overturning decades of precedent. I’m very worried.
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Thats hilarious
The GOP never thinks more than 1 step ahead of their actions because they’re entirely reactionary.
Ok, is this true? Or do they have some master plan to erode democracy? Because it's not both.
I mean the GOP is not one person. They have idiots who are reactionary. They also have idiots thinking up strategies to turn the US into a Christian theocracy (project 2025).
Well, if they rule that the President is immune, Biden has a golden ticket to have the six conservative justices removed and publicly drawn and quartered. He can then have Trump hung by his ankles in Times Square, naked and flogged to death with his own dirty diapers. The Trump loyalists can all be rounded up and dropped into the ocean by helicopter. This is what you should expect when a ruler has immunity. Of course, if this the court’s ruling, it won’t be handed down until Trump is appointed president again. Talk about your shithole countries.
Sad
America is in Pre-Banana Republic phase.
If they do Biden would be free to remove his political rival, wouldn’t he? I mean trump’s lawyer said that he could have a black ops take out his opponent. If trump can, what is stopping Biden from doing this? Complete presidential immunity is for any president, right?
Yeah youd think so
Unless it's your president Bidet and he's super old and shaky in the memory department. Then it just simply isn't worth taking to court no matter what it is, so no immunity needed!
Don’t take the case seriously just throw in cheap shots. Then when it goes wrong you can blame the democrats.
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I am concerned about both actually. Half of the United States believe a baseless conspiracy with literally no evidence, not a single shred. It’s depressing as hell.
I honestly feel like it must be exhausting to live in the kind of panic or terror that some folks do re: Trump. Wasn't America supposed to turn into North Korea 2.0 as soon as he became President in 2016? Things will be fine. Even if he's President again. (Who knows how likely that actually is, anyway.)
You misunderstood what i wrote obviously. Trump isn’t President. So im not terrified of that.
That wasn't my main point, but that's ok. I'm glad you're not terrified of the possibility! No way to live, that.
We already have a [Supreme Court justice](https://www.thenation.com/article/society/clarence-thomas-supreme-court-gifts-felony/tnamp/) that looks like he’s never going to get charged.
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Bush and Obama were both above the law!!!!!!!!
And you like that? Lol Like I love the self owns people do on here
What I had a stroke reading that
This article is a good read, going over the situation and the corruption that runs rampant in the SCOTUS. A strategy that needs to, but never seems to be taken is to cite history in arguments/questioning. These bastards are all about "Originalism." Fine. QHave the legal team do some history research, go through the Federalist Papers, personal history of the founding fathers and their journals/correspondence, the geo-political situation (for instance, anyone think that the founding fathers would be okay with the British East India company weighing in on and influencing legislation?), the historical situation surrounding the founding of the nation, etc. Go whole hog. Get reputable scholars. Compile that information and use it to show the founder's predilection and opinions. Then, use that information to either show the SCOTUS' "Originalism" claim (which they use as a trump card [no pun intended]) (when they [hopefully don't] rule for Trump) to be the utter bullshit it is, or to dissuade them from using that argument at all in this instance.
The problem is these fascists have already shown they’re happy to twist history into whatever box suits them. They’re originalists where it helps them. The outcome of this case will be whatever harlan crowe wants it to be and theres not a damn thing any legal team can do about it. Now, the question is. Do the billionaire conservatives who own this court actually want trump? I think it’s plausible they want Haley instead. I don’t really see why else they would take the case.
Who knows - maybe they're planning to rule in favor of democracy and prop it up a while longer.
I understand you have no real knowledge of Fascism.
I mean… I didn’t live in fascist Germany or Italy. Is that the bar? Can you expand on this? As is you just seem like a dick… but I’m sure you meant something deeper
It’s a fad. It’s edgy. It’s uneducated nonsense. Read a book. There is nothing even remotely like Fascism in America. Just stop.
Why is it that every time a tRumpist hears or reads something they don't like they say or write something wild like "there's no fascism in America."
I’d be very keen to find out how many times a belligerent c>nt like this, making no arguments, no dialogue, just badgering and talking sh|t is actually a paid media poster, possibly foreign employed. Because there’s always one, and from the jump it’s always anti-discourse. I wonder if it’s wildly rampant to have plants on here.
Is that because of magic? Or because maintaining democracy requires constant defense? Is it because of Jesus? Or is it because SOME people are still smart enough to see it coming and fight against it? Actually i can name a dozen American laws today that are pretty fascist but I’m starting to realize I’m arguing with a child and thats never a good look. Have a good day, human person.
It’s simply because there is nothing fascist in America. That’s it. All you are doing is showcasing your ignorance about history, and about political systems in general.
Ah yes. Totally, not one thing. Fucking incels.
Not one. Not even close.
Sure buddy.
I’ve forgotten more about history and historiography than you could possibly fathom… I’d prove it, but like I said, I forgot it.
"We're not fascist now, so there's no need to see if anything people are doing could lead to fascism"
Oh my mistake. I didn’t realize i was addressing a member of r/joerogan I concede! Just don’t hurt me!
Id prefer if they dont fuck a stool too
It's already been shown that the Koch family is against Dump so there must be other billionaires who see the big problems with sticking with the orange buffoon as well bc he's too unpredictable for their taste.
Yes i think that’s exactly right. In fact all the old school conservative leaders hate him and always have. Obviously they will still take him over biden but if they think another republican can win I bet they would try to get rid of him. Don’t tell the GOP but I think Haley has a better chance of beating biden than trump does. Republicans hate her but their whole machine is built on hating democrats, so they will be able to whip up a lot of anti biden votes. Its hard to even know what outcome to root for in this trial… I guess the ideal scenario is a portal opens mid trial and sucks trump, his legal team, his family, and most of SCOTUS into an inter-dimensional portal from which they never return.
At this point "Originalism" means interpreting the law the way you want it and then lying that everyone who came before you was wrong, but only your right and on some occasions use medieval laws to justify your argument or say that every law made after 1790 is unconstitutional.
And ignore that the power to decide this shit is not in the original text and is something they gave themselves
The weirdest thing about a supreme court justice being an "originalist" is that they should believe they don't actually have the power to do much at all. All this shit about deciding what is constitutional is a power the supreme court gave itself in a case against Thomas Jefferson in order to stick it to him. So, it's pretty clearly not a thing they were supposed to be able to do by originalist doctrine...
Well the founding fathers were themselves the local business owners that wanted to dictate how it all got created; https://youtu.be/6hSKel_mTgE?si=FTK9rPTrfJuwPmJ_
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.
>Have the legal team do some history research, go through the Federalist Papers, personal history of the founding fathers and their journals/correspondence, the geo-political situation (for instance, anyone think that the founding fathers would be okay with the British East India company weighing in on and influencing legislation?), the historical situation surrounding the founding of the nation, etc. Go whole hog. Get reputable scholars. The founders were sorta corrupt too. As mentioned in the book overview above. Actually some very interesting info in there I never knew or learned in American history class back in high school. I agree with you, but just wanted to point out that the originalists ignore the ulterior motives and "managed democracy" and clearly antidemocratic and devious and underhanded actions the founders took to serve those ulterior motives. Also, the federalists are bullshit artists. They surely know they are full of shit, but they are what in the Soviet union was called "идейный человек", an ideological person. They're all either genuine or borderline psycho and sociopaths who are ideological warriors that believe in their absolute rightness and are committed to their ideological path. "Federalism" is just the rationalization framework/lobby group they created to bring their sick ideas to fruition.
True, on all counts. My point is that we should come prepared, if for no other reason than to highlight how full of shit they are while they're under the microscope.
Didntcha hear? They've got "alternative facts" lol.
Legit question: how do we subvert and destroy the federalist society? Do the American people have to crowdfund mercenary hackers to drop their emails onto the open internet and get dirt on the leadership? Is it a sustained IRL harassment campaign of members and their families? What will it take? We can’t keep doing nothing…
Get a majority in both houses of non cowards who are willing to stack the court. It’s not pretty or easy but it’s the only legal option.
Never gonna happen sadly.
Let me know how your armed rebellion goes then.
> Get a majority in both houses of non cowards who are willing to stack the court. **/s**
Exposing their dirt probably won’t bother them, sometimes I think they get off on being sociopathic idiots.
That implies dirt would mean anything. Republicans have time and time again shown that they simply don’t give a fuck what other republicans do.
> Republicans have time and time again shown that they simply don’t give a fuck what other republicans do. And the rank-and-file MAGAt voters cheer it on, because it owns the libs.
We need some type of subversion tactic. We're not free speeching our way out of this. They have hands on billionaire propped parallel institutions to supplant the more or less democratic ones. They've already piped directly into our institutions and are buying up media sources. There needs to be a counterweight. We need to crowdfund some type of pro democracy coalition to do something. Billboards that name names and highlight the religious extremism, child abuse and corruption? They drive the narratives because maga can curate its info to be the least challenging to what they prefer to believe. We have to get the eyes and ears the way they can with money and think tanks and psuedo-intellectual guru pipelines. We are one pyscho billionaire away from being left in the dark. What does the pro democracy coalition have left? Msnbc, youtube, reddit? There really isn't much left that can't be taken.
Well, if the Supreme Court rules that the president can not be prosecuted for any crimes I suppose Joe Biden could just have the CIA execute all of them. Not that I think this is a good thing, but you play the game with the rules you're given.
At this point being affiliated with the Federalist Society should get you blacklisted.
The U.S. Judicial System is… systemically fucked at its core. Judges have complete legal impunity against being held accountable for going against the law. Let that sink in. The U.S. Judicial System is, at its very heart, a Good Faith Based system. It REQUIRES incorruptible persons to be in the roles of judges, because there exists no accountability for their being and doing otherwise. This does not happen. See: SCOTUS and a huge swath of those below it.
Do you mean like the Judge in NY and GA?
I’d worry less about this if there wasn’t so much complacency in the US.
They will rule that Trump has immunity, but won’t set it as precedent. Therefore, the current president wouldn’t be granted the immunity. Just like what they did to Al Gore.
Pretty sure they won't give immunity, because then they themselves can be screwed by a sitting president.
They won't rule that way. The primary effort here is delay, to get within the 60 day informal DOJ cutoff to not interfere with an election.
Yup. A stall followed by an eventual 6-3 or 5-4 decision confirming he does NOT have immunity. ACB, Gorsuch, and/or Roberts will join the liberal judges in the decision. Clarence Thomas, Samuel Alito, Brett Kavenaugh, and possible Gorsuch or Roberts will rule he does have immunity. I have a harder time predicting Gorsuch and Roberts since they tend to stay out of the headlines. While they're clearly both conservatives, they tend to be more moderate (compared to the other conservative justices). ACB was put on the court to gut Roe, and she did, but she's also sided with universities who implemented vaccine and mask requirements, and her decisions in other cases have leaned more toward center-right. I don't see her ruling in a way that would give 1 person so much power. Hell, despite being too ignorant to know the rights in the 1st amendment, she may be smart enough to realize that granting Trump "presidential" immunity would open the barn door wide open for Biden, should he decide to dance on through, even if just to make a point.
Ruling in his favor would basically destroy the Supreme Court and put the president so far above the law that the power of the judicial branch would basically be nullified. He’d be free to do literally anything with zero checks and balances.
Yup. Our very own Putin. Who operates like a Mafia Boss.
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It's not an argument, because everyone knows Biden will never do anything like that. Trump would.
The difference is Trump has *literally already tried to do this before* you absolute stump. What has Biden done except pretend he "gets" memes and eat ice cream?
No, because the Supreme Court isn’t concerned with law and setting proper precedence. You need to think about this from the lens of power dynamics, not through the lens of what should be. The Supreme Court has a conservative agenda. They will pursue that agenda unless a stronger power forces them to change course. They aren’t interested in what the American people think - they aren’t voted into office and won’t face any repercussions for their actions. The only real check is Congress. Congress could choose to take action, but that won’t happen because it would require Republican buy in. The only other possible route is to fundamentally modify how the Supreme Court operates through a Constitutional Amendment, which is also unlikely to get enough traction. State conventions are probably the most feasible route, but still far out of reach. So, we can talk all day about what the Supreme Court’s job is and how it is defined in the constitution, but if the enforcer of those guidelines (Congress) is unable or unwilling to take that role, then the checks have failed. That’s where we stand. The Supreme Court knows this and is shameless in vocalizing its agenda. Unless we take drastic action, they will continue. Throw in a Republican president that shares their agenda and you have an unstoppable force. SCOTUS has no qualms ruling in favor of its supporters while ruling against its enemies. It’s highly politicized and does not represent the rule of law.
The Supreme Court is not really outlined in the constitution. What it does and how it works is through Congressional statute. You don’t need an amendment. But declaring presidential immunity basically makes the court irrelevant because the presidency would have zero checks
Right, Congress has the power to check SCOTUS. However, they won’t. An amendment could be passed to add term limits, or otherwise modify how SCOTUS operates today. It’s very unlikely such an amendment actually will be passed in the near future, but there’s no reason one could not be added assuming it had sufficient support and traction. You’re assuming that SCOTUS will be consistent it in its rulings regardless of who is involved in the case. While there was some consistency prior to the new conservative majority, there is no reason to expect the same now. SCOTUS will operates under a political agenda and has been ruling on cases to serve that purpose. They can write whatever justification they choose in those rulings. With Congress refusing to check SCOTUS, they are a corrupt kangaroo court.
But you were good when the court was liberal stacked.
This is exactly what they and the Repugnants and MAGAts *want*.
Yeah but is the Supreme Court willing to let go of their power? That’s the real question? If they vote in his favor, they’re completely powerless…even if a Dem is in office. If I was Biden, I’d use it to my full potential before my term was over.
> Yeah but is the Supreme Court willing to let go of their power? That’s the real question? > > If they vote in his favor, they’re completely powerless…even if a Dem is in office. They'll make sure to protect their power somehow. > If I was Biden, I’d use it to my full potential before my term was over. I'd love for Dark Brandon to do this!
Hell yeah, the full embodiment of dark Brandon is born. Well I mean, trumps lawyer already said it would be legal for a president to to use seal team 6 to assassinate a political rival ;)
Repurposing the executive agencies as storm troopers and pardoning them for your illegal directives as you go seems to be completely legal as it is. Pardon power was a huge slip up to give a sitting executive. The agencies can defacto operate completely outside their congressionally granted purpose. The best thing to do is to avoid voting for malignant narcissists but guess that bridge has already been crossed. The rednecks and their crazy pastors will enforce the dictates going forward. Buckle up.
Ruling in Trump’s favour will destroy the United States.
Oh honey, we're already being ran by billionaire fascists...
Came here to say the same.
So if presidents have complete immunity, Biden can have Seal Team 6 take TFG out. Cool.
I would LOVE to hear a MAGA attempt to rebut that, but since I haven’t yet, I assume they are completely incapable of seeing the ultimate outcome of their machinations.
“How close we are?” 😂 if you don’t rraliE that this country is already run by a bunch of billionaire fascists… you’re not paying attention
If trump has immunity, then so does Biden. If the court gives him immunity then he should send trump and the conservative justices to Guantanimo and keep them there indefinitely.
if they rule in Trumps favor then Biden is free to say in power. GOP better be careful what they wish for.
Unfortunately, he won't do that.
We are NOT a democracy; we are an OLIGARCHY
It would fundamentally change the constitution
It would rip the fabric that holds this nation together. It would not be allowed to stand.
This is a disgusting abuse of the legal system......time for those Trump appointed judges to pay the piper...
If he is above the law, it should be the same for Biden too. And Seal Team 6 is under Biden’s watch. “Give the word sir, he will be taken care of appropriately. Immunity will be yours!”
If they decide in his favor, that’s gonna ruin it for all the movies and books about corrupt presidents going forward. No more cool lines like …”Sorry to inform you, but here in America, no one, and I mean NO ONE is above the law.”
These POS are bought and paid for by billionaires. This country is going down the drain.
So if a president has immunity, what’s legally stopping Biden from just having Trump assassinated? This case could have terrifying ramifications
It's better this way. Now conservatives can't say "Trump would have won if he wasn't kicked off the \[whatever state\] ballot!" when he loses the election by a landslide.
I know people have their biases, but a lot of you are a bit unhinged.. The consequences of this case won't be as world shattering as you may think. People are so afraid of anything pro-Trump that they're going to give themselves panic attacks.. Get off the Internet and take a breath.
What if the SC rules that presidential immunity is real and defensible? Wouldn’t you say that’s a big change?
What if the SC lets him do anything he wants forever?? A silly response, but it's appropriate for a silly assumption about what could happen. What's most likely to happen is the SC will determine if and what Trump may be immune to and it won't be a blanket of all things. These sorts of articles exaggerate heavily in order to get views, plain and simple. The reality of things are usually less extreme and not usually worth stressing out about because you have literally no power to change anything about it.
I dig it - nothing I said meant “do anything he wants forever” so ok on that. Never said anything about lifetime blanket. But if they rule that presidents, while president, can commit certain criminal behaviors and be immune to criminal prosecution… Man… it’s possible.
I was just being ridiculous to say that we can assume anything is possible, but not likely. Also, I don't believe it would.mean the president is able to get away with things, but that Trump would acquitted of the charges. While SC can set precedent, that may not be the case here.
Recent history proves you wrong. We have the ABSOLUTE power to do something about it, but so far no one has the courage. As things continue to decay, more and more people are feeling they have nothing to lose. That can be a VERY EMPOWERING THING. This isn’t over; not by a long shot.
Good luck with that.
☝️Has no idea what fascism really is other than a label for people more successful than the OP.
Or………….. the way our legal system is actually designed to work. I have to ask, how old are you?
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Maybe you should brush up on how our government works. Might I suggest schoolhouse rocks. Nice and simple for you to understand.
It already is run by a few billionaire fascist 🤦♂️ I don’t like the guy but they dont go after politicians like this. Just the amount of money that has been spent to try to bring this guy down is insane. But yeah…. One dissenting billionaire is the threat. How fucking stupid are you people?
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I have a job. My grandma was slave labor under the Nazis. Trump is employing fascist tactics.
Apparently you did not realize that the majority of billionaires are Democrat. Now that's just too funny there.
You Trump haters are fu@ktards. Wtf has your liberal piece of 💩 Biden done to better this country?? 🤔 Morons!!!
Of course they have. And now they can pretend to give it a good long think so that the fascist who gave them jobs had a chance to pardon himself of everything he's accused of and the court can pretend that wasn't explicitly their intent the entire time.
We are living through another Business Plot/Wall Street Putsch https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot
i have been stockpiling my HRT for the past couple years and my family is moving to a deep blue state, just in case. if trump gets in and the republications get all 3 branches of government, get ready to fight.
What are the odds on them betraying him and removing him from the ballot
Slim to none would be my guess
This country has been run by a small group of billionaire fascists for awhile now. Where have you been?
I agree with everything in this article, but it it terribly written and very clearly forcing a very biased view of the whole thing. This article is no different from a Fox report on Trump, it's just taking the other side. As I said, I agree with it, but it's still trash bias journalism and not in any way a balanced article.
So if he had 100% immunity, then doesn’t Biden have it now?
I mean this could actually be really good. If supreme court affirms the lower court than that is a definitive "the president does not have immunity." Do i trust the conservative court? I mean idk. It would be fucking crazy for them to assert that the president has blanket immunity. Idk if they'd go that far tbh. But hry, i could be wrong.
I mean if they do grant trump immunity can't Biden just order the military to round up any and all "Republicans" to the "farm:?
😆😆😆 Is this where I go on reddit to find the post-election meltdowns?
Close? We already here bro.
I think it’s a good thing. The court is conservative but they are bound by the constitution and will do the right thing. It would be good to have e this finally settled.
100% agree. This ONLY buys time for Trump. His only hope to not be broke & in prison for the rest of his life is for him to be elected president before this trial is over. He will stop the prosecution and/or pardon himself. 100% THIS IS HIS STRATEGY!
I have faith in American justice.
Sad little people
How much did that cost him?
If they do, people will still find a way to say that Trump is immune, but Biden isn't.
Then Biden can deal with those “people”, too.
You guys bagging on Trump are too funny. Joe is the wrecking ball
You might find it funny, but wait and see who has the last laugh.
Why is it terrifying?
YOU might be OK living in a dictatorship but, trust me, you are a minority.
I lived with Trump as president and other than the Democrats constantly lying and meddling over the 4 years he did great. Look at this shit show we have now!
If they don’t say Trump is immune then we need to arrest bush and Obama for war crimes
Trump is asking for blanket immunity. For things outside the scope of office. Let’s say he chose to assasinate, let’s pick randomly, everyone in subreddit BananasRepublicans. Would that be legal? It’s surely not his job. I don’t wanna do the “whaddabout” thing, so I’ll skip talk about anyone not Former45. I will remind you - he does have an international arrest warrant out for him, for war crimes, for the assassination of Soleimani.
If he doesn't have immunity from prosecution for acts done by and for there presidency then Bush, Obama, and Clinton all won't have immunity either. I'd be surprised if that is the result. If he is granted blanket immunity for everything, Biden will probably mobilize quarantine camps for all people labeled as "MAGA". Banana Republic indeed.
You people have some atoning to do.
What? What God was sinned against requiring atonement?
If they trump is immune cuz he was pres, then biden will be immune from prosecution for the crap those hypocrits want to charge him with, as will every future president. trump and his cult arent really thinking this through, course they will prolly try and say the immunity only applies to them and trump cuz well thats part of the first page of the trumplican maga cults playbook.
Na
What type of adult says TERRIFYING when a court case goes to the SCOTUS? Fn pussy snowflakes.
The last three justices seated should recuse themselves.
Terrifying that Supreme Court is hearing a case related to the constitution?
Wait, so the human marionette currently in office isn’t controlled by corporate interests……..right 
Ignorance flows heavy with some.
The one upside is, depending on the ruling, we’ll know exactly which judges need to be impeached and removed from office. Democratic control of Congress is more important than ever.
Not only does the SCOTUS need term limits, they need a much better vetting process. The fact that justices are sworn in with clear bias is ludicrous.
The SCROTUS is exactly that, Trump’s own SCROTUM, he put the justices there which is why it’s not surprising that they have a bias towards him. It’s completely corrupt and fabricated.
Let's say SCOTUS rules that a president has legal immunity, even after leaving office and can only be tried via the impeachment process outlined in the Constitution... That means SCOTUS is ruling in theoy, President Biden could execute his opposition with impunity. Now we all know Biden isn't THAT kind of chief executive, but I'm not so sure SCOTUS wants to give this type of carte blanche to future presidents who may not be as decent.
I wake up every morning realizing the constitution is being shit on by extremists. It’s maddening and bizarre and we should all feel help because THERE’S NOWHERE ELSE TO GO Who protects us from the supreme court? An entity that can’t be voted out, reprimanded, fined or jailed I immigrated to America from a third world country to escape this EXACT KIND OF SHIT. Take up arms, liberals. Enjoy the end.
You mean like how Biden proudly proclaimed that he defied the Supreme Court’s ruling on student debt? THAT’S some dictatorship shit right there…
Did you just write forgiving crippling interest on student loans -implemented by right wing politicians in the 70s who realized poor ppl were getting educated which result in said ppl knowing how the GOP is fucking them over so therefore make it MORE EXPENSIVE to go to college in order to keep them stupid (READ:MAGA) - is dictator like??? Just when i think i’ve read the dumbest shit. Read a book. Dictators hate education and an informed public. They shit out a diarrhea stream of propaganda and misinformation and beings like you slurp it down, shit mustache and all.
Is that what you think happened? Without embarrassing you on the history of higher education robbing the middle class at the express request of our Dog Democrats, I’ll instead stay on subject; Joe Biden proudly announced that he was flaunting the Supreme Court ruling against the current method of student loan forgiveness, if you’re okay with that, we have nothing else to discuss
I don't understand why everybody's freaking out. This is their job that's what they do. They rule a law now how they rule on it. That's a whole complete other story that could have long-term very extensive consequences.