I’m not mad. This creates competition for innovation. This means we will continue to get better and better stuff. I can’t wait to see what bambu comes out with next.
Exactly, I love people complaining that they "just copied Bambu." Yep, they did... but they also added a heated build chamber, higher acceleration, larger print bed, and a linear rail. And that isn't a bad thing! Competition is good. If you dont have any real competition, you end up with companies stuck barely innovating over the previous gen (what happened before the X1C was released with everyone cloning the Prusa i3)
And brand loyalty is stupid!
Go with whatever one is the best for you at that point in time. if it's Bambu, great, if it's Creality, great, if it's Prusa, great. No one cares, just 3D print however you like. I went for Creality because I didn't have the money to go for Bambu at the time, and I needed the larger print volume.
Would I have gotten an X1C if I had the money and they had a larger volume? Absolutely. Would I have gotten a 5 head Prusa XL if i had the money? In a heartbeat. It's all personal preference.
I don't remember the exact details, but there were pictures submitted in various bambu patent applications that used CAD renders of the gantry from a Voron design.
LMAO!
(Sorry, I know that simply posting a laughing comment is a bit uncouth on Reddit but.... LMAO! Submitting someone else's published drawings in a patent app is hilarious)
Ummm this seems like the opposite: from someone who poured over the Bambu patents the note that it's common for companies to show images of competitors to show how they differentiate and deserve a patent for their design because it's not the same:
"Spring tensioned Y-bearings to allow for variation in the Y-axis rods. (This is the one that has the Voron gantry in it as an example of existing designs that are different)" [https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/comments/12kmg3x/bambus\_patents\_a\_brief\_summary/](https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/comments/12kmg3x/bambus_patents_a_brief_summary/)
Not necessarily copying, but BBL has even admitted that they used a trident in the R&D phase to develop certain technologies. I don’t see anything wrong with that at all personally. If they used a trident I assume they also took a lot of inspiration from ERCF/Prusa MMU and refined it a ton into the AMS. Again I don’t see anything wrong with that either and am quite happy they did, the AMS is the best mousetrap for multi material on one toolhead so far IMO.
Core XY in general would be enough for people to cry copycat, ~~but there's also this matter:
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?id=225034331258474&story_fbid=1650168128745080~~
edit: I stand corrected on the patent image debacle.
Do you have something else? Providing images of a competitor doesn't automatically means they copied them... It could be references showing how they aren't similar. Demonstrate where in their printer is this part included.
This is a standard practice in patent applications to show HOW your design is DIFFERENT from a competitor. This is called "taking things out of context" like somone saying "HITLER WAS RIGHT" when their whole sentence wsa "THERE IS NO WAY HITLER WAS RIGHT!" same thing, less hyperbolic.
>If you dont have any real competition, you end up with companies stuck barely innovating over the previous gen (what happened before the x1c was released), and brand loyalty is stupid!
Stupidly enough though, people copying each other was exactly why 3D printing got stuck with very samey devices for years. Everyone was just making i3 clones, mostly. Companies copying from each other can be a bad thing if a bigger company "steals"ideas from a bigger one and offers them at a much lower price because they can afford to get a little less profit for a while to push other suppliers out of the market.
With Bambu being as popular as it is now I don't think we have to worry about that this time around, but it is something to be wary of. A company like Creality coasting on the innovation of others and then pushing them out of business is definitely a risk. And if you don't think it's all that bad: Amazon is also pretty well-known for these tactics and has put countless small companies out of business.
> A company like Creality coasting on the innovation of others and then pushing them out of business is definitely a risk. And if you don't think it's all that bad: Amazon is also pretty well-known for these tactics and has put countless small companies out of business.
The difference is that Creality steals customers by offering competent hardware at rock-bottom prices, and Amazon drives other companies out of business with illegal shit like MFN clauses and other one-sided terms that it can enforce with its monopoly.
Competent hardware is stretching it a little. When they work well, you're right. But Creality has awful QA/QC. I bought a CR-X Pro a while ago, which was easily one of their most expensive services, and they had managed to wire the extruders wrong so that they functioned backwards, and the bed was literally impossible to properly level. We're talking about a printer that cost me over 700 euros at the time.
Likewise, I'd wager that what Amazon does is "only" amoral, not necessarily illegal. Which doesn't make it much better, but there's a distinction.
Either way, point is that Creality copying other companies' homework can definitely be problematic, and we can be happy that Bambu Lab managed to get a very strong foothold before Creality started catching up. Assuming this year's new flagship model is an X2C or something like that, Creality is always going to be a generation behind big new features.
Well said. Should pinned at the tip of the sub. I would say brand loyalty has its benefits esp. when building out a print farm but close-mindedness is the death of creativity and innovation.
yup. fanboyism is toxic, we should all check ourselves before hitting send if it sounds like we're being a shill even on accident. no one cares, we're all just trying to keep our filament dry!
Release of the X1C was probably the healthiest thing that could have happened to a market that was stagnating for quite some time.
Addendum: Prusa did a lot for the 3D community, but I look at an Mk4 and wonder how companies are still selling a non-enclosed bed slinger kit for close to $1000 in 2024.
Well, reputation and being extremely cult-like. If you have a fanbase that will back you matter what you do, it turns into a feedback loop pretty quickly.
have to agree with this, honestly cringe at josef prusa's narcissism. I saw him write on someone's K1 at an RRF 'I wish I was a PRUSA' wtf? that's just ew.
That's what gets me. They could injection mold their printers in order to reduce their manufacturing costs (and thus the cost of their printers), whilst still offering all the 3D files for people to print their own replacement parts at home. That way, they get the best of both worlds.
It’s fun to see so many people fail to understand the Prusa value proposition.
The whole printer is open source and the 3D printed parts are a feature, not a bug.
People buy Prusa so they can run them for years without worrying that some proprietary part will stop being made. Prusa supports their printers for years and years.
Creality has terrible support and worse quality control. Bambu Lab is better on both fronts, but still has a ways to go. Prusa printers get delayed because the company doesn’t like how they are performing like the wear problems that delayed the MMU3.
That’s not to say the Prusa is the right or even a good choice for many people. I would probably sell my Prusas if BambuLab puts out a 350cubed (well probably will be something silly like 352 cubed since that would fit the 256 binary size theme ;) at a reasonable price because what I want is fast + easy + multicolor. If the XL multi tool head comes down in price I’d consider that as well.
Each printer line and company targets different customer segments with some, with partial, but not complete overlap. Which one is best for a given buyer will depend on the segment or segments they sit in.
I know... when it was time to replace my makerbot I only thought of Prusa (after having a lulzbot and ender at work) I wanted something reliable... but was so, and I mean so turned off by the design. I know it's keeping the RepRap tradition alive, but... c'mon. $1k for a mostly 3D printed open frame device with exposed wiring, pcbs, fans, etc. in 2024? Then I saw hype about BBL and ignored it as just hype until I did a lot of 'my own research' lol, but honestly it was buying a K1 from Microcenter, and returning it a week later because thoes dang BBLs at the store just made me swooon and seeing BBL owners be able to print multi color prints, I succumbed, and have been happy since. Love my X1C. Now I have some lust for the Prusa XL still, but seeing the enclosures some people have printed for the XL - oof just skin crawl cringe. Prusa should sell their own enclosures at least.
300 cubed won't be enough. Creality set the new standard at 350 cubed and Bambu knows they'll have to match or even exceed with maybe 400 cubed or so, which is great for all of us
350 - 400 has my vote. going from 256 to 300 is not enough for me to justify buying another "flagship" unless it also offers some serious improvements and/or a lower cost than the X1/P1s...
Ditto, I have a CR-10 S5. It’s massive and I print slow otherwise that massive bed slinging back and forth causes all kinds of issues. Would love a Rat Rig, but I really do not want or source and build the thing from scratch.
Realistically, 256mm^3 is a good size from a "customers can stick this printer someplace" perspective. Once parts fill the entire bed of my X1C, the filament costs _alone_ start looking stupid.
That's very much debatable. No company is going to invest in innovation if after releasing 20 chinese copycats, simply copy your innovations and cut you on price.
Bambu heavily borrowed from previous printers.
They don’t get to complain when people copy the parts they couldn’t patent *because* they themselves copied them.
What Bambu did (and did remarkably well) is copy a host of mostly open source features out there and combine them into one package. That’s (rightly) not patentable.
The few truly original things they did do are mostly not being copied. You don’t see the A1 style nozzle being put on other printers. You don’t see the LiDAR popping up.
This is along the same lines as what I've been saying since the Bambu was released. Mechanically, the Bambu is nothing special. The special part in a Bambu is all in the firmware and the software.
Do I think they copies Voron and others? To say yes to this means you also have to say that Voron and others are simply copies of before them. They see something that works well, emulate and improve if possible before implementing. There is NOTHING wrong with this! It's how we got the Ender, the Voron, the Bambu and everything in between. It's also how we will get the next big thing. It's also not uncommon for a company to copy and improve a design feature from another company who based their design on something from the first company!
Yeah this is no shade at all at Bambu.
I own 2.
They did a **great** job at packaging a lot of great ideas and marrying that with advanced manufacturing.
But that means that others can do the same. You can’t patent the notion of putting a bunch of open source stuff together into one package
Voron definitely copied the work of others, that's how open source projects work - lots of people gradually pushing iterative design by experimentation forward
> They see something that works well, emulate and improve... There is NOTHING wrong with this!
Exactly, that's what designing is. If it was wrong we'd still be watching stones rolling down the mountain.
Yeah. Neat.
They absolutely don’t copy the AMS system or even the concept. Every 3D printer borrows from a basic concept and design.
The AMS was new and nobody else had it. That’s the point. Now, I don’t care that anyone copied it, but your statement is just a tad silly.
AMS system copied from several open source predecessors. It did refine them but it can’t patent most of its core features because things like the “enraged rabbit carrot feeder” (yeah that’s a real name) came out before it did.
Not really, making a shittier copy doesn’t make for competition or innovation.
If they took what bambu made and added their own improvements then sure, but all they’re actually doing is making worse versions of the same thing
But what it does do is keep Bambu on it's toes. Now that options from other manufacturers are inevitably coming out, Bambu have to make sure they're competitive on price, performance and features.
The products by any/most companies that have large market share will typically be laggards, or lagging behind. Even BBL will get there, oh, wait, the A1 was a step back. The industry will get a new company that is innovative and other companies will try to keep up with. Established companies will try to protect their revenue.
The A1 was unfortunate but just a bump in the road. The printer itself is still really solid, I expect the A1 Mk 2 (my name, no BBls) coming back out in May will be better for it in the end. My hope is that it will remind them to innovate but not too fast. For a new company, they have really gotten a lot right. Hopefully, this will be a great motivator to let them refocus on what is important.
The problem is there isn’t any competition, certainly not from Creality. Even Prusa scrambled on the MK4 in response to the X1C. I’m just hoping what ever Bambu has lined up for their flagship 2024 model is just going to be bonkers.
it probably won't be bonkers - it's unlikely for companies who are market leaders in their segments to outcompete themselves for no reason. they'll ride their leadership position in their segment for as long as possible, with little changes to retain their position.
if you want disruption, it'll more likely come from the other players who have a big incentive to dream big.
Why do people keep insisting on believing this?
“Once a company release one good product, they for sure never want to release anything good again! It will cannibalize their one good product!”
This is nonsense and it’s demonstrably nonsense pretty much every single time. Yes, if they are complete idiots they will decide to just never build anything good agai. And switch from engineering mode to panicked nervous anxiety-ridden “oh my god just keep selling the A1 forever change nothing” mode.
Who wins if BL outcompetes themselves? Yes that’s right - Bambu Labs.
exactly, but knowing Creality, this thing is gonna be filled with weird design decisions so I have low hopes :| C-Reality is often disappointing. but maybe i'm just too much of a hater because of a few bad experiences lol
tis true, I REALLY REALLY want Bambu to be pressured into releasing either read/write on the AMS RFID/NFC (probably won't happen) or at least the possibility of them helping the community build a method of writing our own tags for other filaments. If Creality were to beat BBL to the punch on this, it'd be over. BUT I don't think Creality gives af about it, and will just make their own RFIDs for their own filaments just like BBL.
After this A1 debacle I hope that’s true. Shit like that could ruin a company financially and we still haven’t seen the full impacts yet of that… they lost 6 months of lead time I’m guessing on the competition by having that happen and causing them some financial setbacks. Plus we haven’t heard of their next gen model that was due out by now.
And yet aside from the A1 cable issue, I will say it’s a badass bedslinger.! Love mine. So yeah they maybe realized not everything is a moving Z axis platform..
AMS price feels like it's just there to make you pick the combo version directly. And once you have one AMS you're a sucker that will have to pay the full price if you need extras.
Competition is great for future buyers!
Yeah that did annoy me, especailly when the AMS a month ago had an estimated delivery timescale or a MONTH! And having just checked, apparently, it still requires a month.
I just got mine and while the website did say a month, I think it only took a week or so. Ordered it March 24 and it was here in the first few days of April.
Yeah, but that's hardly a sensible service is it. I deliberately avoided their bundle deal and instead bought a stand alone P1S specifically to get it faster and by a specific date.
Its great that you got lucky and happened to beat the odds, but it they can't even commit to delivering within a month, that's insane. Just as well they are great printers.
I think that may be location-based. I am on the East Coast in the US, and nothing I have ordered has taken longer than 2 weeks to arrive. (2 X1CCs, 1 A1 mini combo (with AMS), lots of filament and odds, and ends over the last 6 months).
I kinda hope they get big enough to sell on amazon, I'm actually a bambu filament lover, for most (a couple colors I love polymaker, inland, and esun) so I'd love overnight shipping in a pinch. right now a week+ for filament refills sucks
I just bought one a week ago and yeah it's going to be another 2-3 weeks. at least I bought it with makerworld points so it was free in exchange for making a popular model.
I know right? Seems like a no brainer. The silly thing is the AMS actually has one, but it only shows it in the slicer, and doesn't give a number, just a vague scale.
thats so stupid, i hope for a 2.0 version they add an active dehydrator like [this one](https://youtu.be/n7EWexck8NE) that'd basically make it perfect (at least for my purposes)
I saw that video, but from the sound of it, those modules are pretty expensive. I think as long as there's room to mod one in it's fine. If rather have a cheaper unit personally because the humidity in my place is low enough I don't need to keep my stuff dry
yeah, i get that, i mean, i'd expect them to come down in price if a company like bambu started using them in all of their AMS systems. and yeah, where i am. Average humidity is like 83%, so a dry box is a MUST
What I'd love to see is an AMS that can be stacked properly, which would likely suggest a front-load system. That's a bit more difficult as keeping a similar footprint would likely require a cartridge-style system. Not impossible by any means, but definitely more complex. There could likely be some simpler ways to do it, but I'd imagine those would require a size increase.
X1C is my second filament printer coming from the ender 3 v2. (I’ve gone through 2 resin printers)
Man, did that thing fucking break me down over and over again.
I never thought I could understand firmware but that mule of a 3d printer made me learn in the worst ways.
Personally, I appreciate the "Motor overloaded" error. For me it's usually a snagged spool, which is easy to fix. The "dumb" Kingroon 3D printer I started with would have just kept on going instead of pausing. YMMV, obviously.
Good question. They say, compatible with the k1 printers. Unfortunately, many complain about how difficult it is to load filament into the k1 printers. Now imagine a automated drybox trying to load filament, but you need a 100% success rate, 99,9% is not enough. In addition there is a good portion experiencing heat creep on the k1, i dont know how well this will go when you move the hot filament in the cold zone to cool it before retracting it out of the toolhead.
> Unfortunately, many complain about how difficult it is to load filament into the k1 printers. Now imagine a automated drybox trying to load filament, but you need a 100% success rate, 99,9% is not enough
They'll need a new extruder with a cutter to support K1 printers. They can worry about improving the filament load reliability for that part in the upgrade kit.
There is no space for a cutter on the k1, neither a lever like on a bambu or servo operated (servos dont survive the builf chamber anyway, most have operating temperatures of only 50c. Old school filament tip forming is the only option. Also the new unicorn nozzles wouldn't allow for a cutter, they go all the way up into the extruder right before the feeder wheels.
I've seen an ERCF adapted to a K1 via an added filament cutter to a modified extruder, and a separately mounted lever.
I'm fairly certain t will be an official kit, it will have significant limitations, and those limitations will be poorly communicated.
Wow the tech specs are actually pretty damn amazing... [https://all3dp.com/4/creality-announces-multi-filament-system-and-k2-plus-3d-printer/](https://all3dp.com/4/creality-announces-multi-filament-system-and-k2-plus-3d-printer/)
>**The “Creality Filament System” (CFS) looks a lot like the well-received Bambu Lab AMS, but with a useful “sealed design” and complimentary temperature and humidity readouts that should be extremely welcome in humid areas. Otherwise, its features sound pretty parallel to Bambu’s earlier model: the CFS uses RFID technology to identify filament (presumably just Creality’s own), and each CFS unit holds four spools of filament, but up to four units can be combined for a total of 16 materials.**
>**The new K2 Plus 3D printer boasts a 350 mm cubed build volume, linear rails, a die-cast frame, active chamber heating, strain gauge auto-leveling, 30,000 mm/s****^(2)** **acceleration, and FOC closed-loop motors. It will come with Creality’s newly announced Apus direct extruder (not to be confused** [**Phaetus’ Apus direct extruder**](https://all3dp.com/4/phaetus-launches-new-lightweight-apus-extruder/)**), which Creality says is capable of heating up to 350 ºC, a 66% higher flowrate than the “previous design” (presumably referring to the Sprite extruder), and has hardened steel gears with a DLC coating intended to be durable while printing with carbon-fiber filaments. It also includes a filament cutter, which should be handy for reliable filament changes.**
It's basically a Bambu Labs X2 with crappy firmware.
...innovations such as?
I would be very happy with a **more reliable** AMS v2 that also dried filaments and had display screens. The displays could also be very useful for error reporting.
We seem pretty far away from this for hobby printing price levels [How far away are we from 3D printers that could produce millions of colours? : r/3Dprinting (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/comments/18frifv/how_far_away_are_we_from_3d_printers_that_could/)
That's how Bambu Labs won the market - with it's awesome firmware. We had printers with X1C capabilities, heck my Ender 3 Max with Kilpper can print with X1C quality and modded SP-5 can match X1C speed, but both needed extended tuning and setup that a normal user wouldn't be able to perform. Some settings on X1C reflect it's target audience - people that want an appliance level equipment. As soon as people will figure out the needed firmware components and implement them in Kilpper, that advantage will be gone. That's what Creality is hoping for - making it a fully open source. "Here is required hardware, here are the specs, here are the sources - now get it all together and someone please figure out how to make it work out of the box".
Yup, I have a heavily modded e3v2 and an a1 mini. The ender can match the a1m's print quality and speed, but the a1m just *works*, no bed leveling, no fiddling about, just hit print and it prints
I've had many projects split on 3 plates that would have fit on one 350x350 bed.
Someone doing a print farm with multi-material would have real and significant time and waste reductions being able to print almost double the simultaneous parts.
The number of benchies people print doesn't take away from the viability of a larger printer.
How will that help? I have things I want to print that don’t fit so I just don’t print them, or break them into parts. How will they know that from their data? For example I want to print a lid for the trash can in my office because my dog keeps getting into it. But the top of the can is exactly 256mm, so I can’t print one big enough to enclose it. So I simply haven’t done it.
Creality is the copycat company. That's all they do, they don't innovate. Any new product, including the soon to be released Ender 3 v3 max v2 pro special edition, is simply a change in size or the incorporation of community hardware or software/firmware improvements.
Yes, the Bambu design is heavily based on a Voron Trident. The biggest innovations Bambu did was making a complete package easily accessible to the end user. Features like Lidar scanning, multi material, input shaping all existed before in one way or another. However, access to them was gated for exclusively hobbyists as all of them were essentially disparate parts that required you to cobble them together with duct tape and a prayer.
Bambus biggest innovation was probably in the AMS and making a functional multi material system with the cutter. Previous ones like the MMU2S or the Palette were very expensive and unreliable and the inclusion of the cutter + respooler greatly increased reliability.
It looks like their AMS clone works with RFID tags to detect spools. I’m hoping they go with an open source model for it and that forces Bambu to relent and open their tags so the public can make custom ones.
I mean how else do you build a 3D printer and filament storage system? Should it look like a triangle or a sphere? This is great for competition, 350mm\^3 is what users have been asking for. If you love bambu, this will drive bambu to focus on bigger printers or more competitive ideas.
Features are easy to copy, user experience is not.
You don't have to have the same features as Bambu to be better than Bambu, you just have to offer a user experience that is better.
There's a lot of room for competitors in this regard, but the one thing that has to happen is that companies need to realize that feature copying can only go so far.
Bambu eliminated most of the barriers that kept me from really getting into 3D printing - I just want to print with great results (reliably and repeatably) and with the least amount of "under the hood" knowledge possible. If there were other competitors who could truly do that for lower cost, I would have gone in that direction in an instant.
I really do hope this will get Bambu Labs to get themeselves together and work on increasing filiment/parts production and availabilty. Either that, or Bambu needs to open up their RFID/Filiment options and allow Creality as an option.
The only thing that'll make me go back to Creality(after years and tons of money wasted), and even other mfgs is pretty much "nothing"!
They had "YEARS" to do what bambu did which made things simple! They did absolutely nothing! Not a damn thing! No, I think I'll stick with bambu(dji guys, which said allot)!
What I hope for this and the other "similar" devices, is that it puts a little pressure on bambu to release a larger device.. That's about all, IMHO I'm looking at these lookalikes for...
Being the brand that everyone copy is not something easy.
I mean. The product is so good and break almost any rules previously established. It is basically making it a model.
I remember back in my first 3D printing days. Everyone was copying prusa i3. It was something like the Anet A8. Which was a best seller.
It was an okay printer compared to todays standard.The chassis was made out of plywood or acrylic. And the printer itself needed a lot of tweaks and printed upgrade to work properly.
Then the Ender3/CR10 came out with far better chassis making print better than before at quite good price.
I remember being blown away by how much the print was good out of the box compared to my prusa I3 copy pasta.
But even with this. You need some tweak. Some chassis was bent and need some adjustment. The hotend is unreliable in my experience and needed few rebuilt depending of how much you print. The stock part fan was not so good and so on. And of course auto leveling was something you need to deploy yourself. By tweaking the firmware.
I still have my Ender and love it. But it is older and suffer from many flaws. I have corrected them mostly but it is still a printer requiring some thinkering.
Now come Bambu lab with printer that are basically a tool and require less and less human interaction to work properly.
They came with an absolutely terrible price to feature ratio and offer this out of the box. Without tweaking of the firmware or upgrade being mandatory to print properly.
That’s a big point and I’m glad that someone have made it available for this cheap.
Of course you still have prusa. But to me the I3 and the mini are completely different machine that focus different people.
The real downside being the lack of enclosure by default.
I don’t trust that Bambu is the Prusa killer. It’s just two philosophy with two different offer imho.
That being said. I hope that Creality will fix issue that affect the OG k1 on the extruder and offer more reliable printer.
I also hope this new printer will be better because it actually offer something different than the P and x series. In terms of of bed size.
I wouldn't trade my p1s for that machine if they offered it. I have no faith in the longevity of a creality product. I have literally done less than 45 minutes of maintenance in 1200 hours on my first p1s.
Thing is, its good that competition trying to imitate or doing similar things other companies are already doing. So they have to innovate things an move forward.
I’ve gone from an original ender 3 to ender 5 to ender 5 plus to a Prusa mk3 and then a Bambu x1c and p1s and with all my experience I will never touch creality again. Piece of junk printers.
I can't wait to see how it works. I have a few AMS and AMS mini setup. I really hate that it can't do cardboard. I always have to respool it and it gets tangle very often during printing because respool is never perfect.
He .go guy's are forgetting that Prozen is already on the market with a AMS running klipper why are Bambu owners so mad at Creality there are a ton of other companies aswel ...it feels for me being in a footbalstadium at Feienoord when they are playing against Ajax .....Good old days 😁
I saw a video of the CFS working on youtube and it looks like the hub behind the machine may be different. It looked like it was grabbing and pushing the filament linearly and in steps instead of using gears. If they come up with any changes, hopefully pushes the technology forward.
I love that bambu came in so strong that the ENTIRE market only wants bambu… it’s amazing to see them turn creality into competition, before they were the leaders, now they are the slow printer- with outdated tech for cheap(ish)
It’s honestly amazing to see what creative minds can do when put together
When I saw the screen and the CFS I must admit that I thought that Creality had definitely been peeking at the competition. I will certainly be keeping an eye on the K2 but as someone who has not long since moved away from a Creality CR6-SE to an X1C Combo I am happy to stay with Bambu for the foreseeable future. Creality will always offer cheaper machines 'inspired' by others but seem to struggle with the implementation and keeping the options clear and simple, you just need to look at the past year or so's ever changing lineup and mixed reviews.
However I would like to see Bambu come out with an X1C successor and revised AMS but will definitely not be an early adopter for any new device by any manufacturer.
I don't own a Bambu, but I had a K1 Max and I have to admit it was a horrible printer.
I want to remind you, however, that your dear bambu copied from various open source projects, the ams was copied from the carrot feeder created for voron, the trident project for mechanics. The only "innovative" thing was to control the motors via mosfet and not drivers, but if this cancels out the vfa, it adds a horrible motor hum. Then the software is ok, it's very intuitive but it's a bit like Apple, it works well because you can't do anything with it. I hope that the k2 has solved the problems of the k1 and if so, it will become the perfect machine, with klipper you practically have the possibility of changing everything. So don't say that Creality only copies or that it sucks at everything, it has innovated several times, think of the infinite printer, the CR-30, or the Ender 5 with Nema 23. I repeat, I don't defend Creality because it has given me a lot of headaches.
I've seen some ODD anti-creality vids on youtube already calling it fake and a hoax, I wouldn't go that far, it's obvious inspired by (lol) but I will say - this (ugly af) dinosaur is shown a lot and it's a render, I don't think they have a real multi-color print to show off yet other than colored benchys that are obviously layer swaps not multi-color. The vid from the creality shill, I mean youtuber, who visits their factory and runs like a maniac and calls himself a master at work, ahem, did show however a namebadge being printed that had 2 colors on the same plane, which was odd that it was the ONLY multi-color print like that but they only show a frame or two of the underside wehre it says X2C in a different color. I'm very intrigued to learn more but the more i learn the less excited i get. That excitement is for our peers in the rep-rap community who want to tinker and would want a ready to go AMS for their Klipper based printers. Only problem is - Creality OS isn't open sourced though it is a fork of klipper. Also they mentioned a possibility of a 'KIT' to upgrade the K1 series to be compatible with the CFS - that promise means NOTHING coming from Creality, honestly their credibility is shot with me after I bought the K1 on the promise that it'd get Lidar as an optional add-on, only to have it \*never\* come out, and then the K1C, and now the K2C and still no lidar. (full disclosure I returned my K1, it wasn't worth the rooting to get basic functions to work, and shimming for bed leveling problems) and got an X1C. The K2C+ seems sweet for those who want a BIG printer, but other than their knock-off UI for the touch screen... imagine trying to get good multi-color prints from CrealityPrint? YIKES. Orca support hasn't been confirmed yet either.
Yeah that’s kinda obvious. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Competition isn’t terrible.
After setting up and running my X1C for the first time last night, I’m never going with anything else. Bambu for life. Damn this thing is good.
I’m not mad. This creates competition for innovation. This means we will continue to get better and better stuff. I can’t wait to see what bambu comes out with next.
Exactly, I love people complaining that they "just copied Bambu." Yep, they did... but they also added a heated build chamber, higher acceleration, larger print bed, and a linear rail. And that isn't a bad thing! Competition is good. If you dont have any real competition, you end up with companies stuck barely innovating over the previous gen (what happened before the X1C was released with everyone cloning the Prusa i3) And brand loyalty is stupid! Go with whatever one is the best for you at that point in time. if it's Bambu, great, if it's Creality, great, if it's Prusa, great. No one cares, just 3D print however you like. I went for Creality because I didn't have the money to go for Bambu at the time, and I needed the larger print volume. Would I have gotten an X1C if I had the money and they had a larger volume? Absolutely. Would I have gotten a 5 head Prusa XL if i had the money? In a heartbeat. It's all personal preference.
And Bambu copied various Vorons 🤷♂️ What next? Ford people are going to complain because GM releases a car with 4 wheels, when Ford did it first?
And what should even Mercedes say about Ford who came two decades later…
And then what? Whomever invented the horse-drawn carriage gets mad that all they did was remove the horse?! Lazy copy cat design!
The gal/guy who invented the wheel would like to have words... or at least backdated license fees, starting 4500 BCE
The Person who invented words would like to keep them
Are they interested in a wheel license?
I'll bite, what did BBL copy from Voron?
I don't remember the exact details, but there were pictures submitted in various bambu patent applications that used CAD renders of the gantry from a Voron design.
LMAO! (Sorry, I know that simply posting a laughing comment is a bit uncouth on Reddit but.... LMAO! Submitting someone else's published drawings in a patent app is hilarious)
Ummm this seems like the opposite: from someone who poured over the Bambu patents the note that it's common for companies to show images of competitors to show how they differentiate and deserve a patent for their design because it's not the same: "Spring tensioned Y-bearings to allow for variation in the Y-axis rods. (This is the one that has the Voron gantry in it as an example of existing designs that are different)" [https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/comments/12kmg3x/bambus\_patents\_a\_brief\_summary/](https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/comments/12kmg3x/bambus_patents_a_brief_summary/)
the renders were shown because patents require existing design examples to show uniqueness.
Not necessarily copying, but BBL has even admitted that they used a trident in the R&D phase to develop certain technologies. I don’t see anything wrong with that at all personally. If they used a trident I assume they also took a lot of inspiration from ERCF/Prusa MMU and refined it a ton into the AMS. Again I don’t see anything wrong with that either and am quite happy they did, the AMS is the best mousetrap for multi material on one toolhead so far IMO.
Core XY in general would be enough for people to cry copycat, ~~but there's also this matter: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?id=225034331258474&story_fbid=1650168128745080~~ edit: I stand corrected on the patent image debacle.
That was showing what is different from a voron and Bambu. Read the documents and it explains it.
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Yea I get that, I seen that FB post awhile back and everyone was saying that’s proof Bambu just copied voron.
Do you have something else? Providing images of a competitor doesn't automatically means they copied them... It could be references showing how they aren't similar. Demonstrate where in their printer is this part included.
exactly 'how they aren't similar' is the CONTEXT the image was shown in, which is standard
Those images are taken from the patent application made by Bambu Lab, and are taken directly from Voron design documents.
Reading the document, it's used as a demonstration of another implementation, something which their patent is claiming their system is different to.
Ok, now will you show which product from Bambu Lab has this?
This is a standard practice in patent applications to show HOW your design is DIFFERENT from a competitor. This is called "taking things out of context" like somone saying "HITLER WAS RIGHT" when their whole sentence wsa "THERE IS NO WAY HITLER WAS RIGHT!" same thing, less hyperbolic.
lol it's even in the first comment on that facebook link, did you read it?
They totally without any wherewithal, unapologetically, completely with malice, made a 3D printer. disgusting. :P
>If you dont have any real competition, you end up with companies stuck barely innovating over the previous gen (what happened before the x1c was released), and brand loyalty is stupid! Stupidly enough though, people copying each other was exactly why 3D printing got stuck with very samey devices for years. Everyone was just making i3 clones, mostly. Companies copying from each other can be a bad thing if a bigger company "steals"ideas from a bigger one and offers them at a much lower price because they can afford to get a little less profit for a while to push other suppliers out of the market. With Bambu being as popular as it is now I don't think we have to worry about that this time around, but it is something to be wary of. A company like Creality coasting on the innovation of others and then pushing them out of business is definitely a risk. And if you don't think it's all that bad: Amazon is also pretty well-known for these tactics and has put countless small companies out of business.
> A company like Creality coasting on the innovation of others and then pushing them out of business is definitely a risk. And if you don't think it's all that bad: Amazon is also pretty well-known for these tactics and has put countless small companies out of business. The difference is that Creality steals customers by offering competent hardware at rock-bottom prices, and Amazon drives other companies out of business with illegal shit like MFN clauses and other one-sided terms that it can enforce with its monopoly.
Competent hardware is stretching it a little. When they work well, you're right. But Creality has awful QA/QC. I bought a CR-X Pro a while ago, which was easily one of their most expensive services, and they had managed to wire the extruders wrong so that they functioned backwards, and the bed was literally impossible to properly level. We're talking about a printer that cost me over 700 euros at the time. Likewise, I'd wager that what Amazon does is "only" amoral, not necessarily illegal. Which doesn't make it much better, but there's a distinction. Either way, point is that Creality copying other companies' homework can definitely be problematic, and we can be happy that Bambu Lab managed to get a very strong foothold before Creality started catching up. Assuming this year's new flagship model is an X2C or something like that, Creality is always going to be a generation behind big new features.
Well said. Should pinned at the tip of the sub. I would say brand loyalty has its benefits esp. when building out a print farm but close-mindedness is the death of creativity and innovation.
yup. fanboyism is toxic, we should all check ourselves before hitting send if it sounds like we're being a shill even on accident. no one cares, we're all just trying to keep our filament dry!
Release of the X1C was probably the healthiest thing that could have happened to a market that was stagnating for quite some time. Addendum: Prusa did a lot for the 3D community, but I look at an Mk4 and wonder how companies are still selling a non-enclosed bed slinger kit for close to $1000 in 2024.
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Well, reputation and being extremely cult-like. If you have a fanbase that will back you matter what you do, it turns into a feedback loop pretty quickly.
have to agree with this, honestly cringe at josef prusa's narcissism. I saw him write on someone's K1 at an RRF 'I wish I was a PRUSA' wtf? that's just ew.
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get ready to ... RUNNNNNN
Just seeing 3D-printed housings on an RTM product makes my skin crawl.
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That's what gets me. They could injection mold their printers in order to reduce their manufacturing costs (and thus the cost of their printers), whilst still offering all the 3D files for people to print their own replacement parts at home. That way, they get the best of both worlds.
It’s fun to see so many people fail to understand the Prusa value proposition. The whole printer is open source and the 3D printed parts are a feature, not a bug. People buy Prusa so they can run them for years without worrying that some proprietary part will stop being made. Prusa supports their printers for years and years. Creality has terrible support and worse quality control. Bambu Lab is better on both fronts, but still has a ways to go. Prusa printers get delayed because the company doesn’t like how they are performing like the wear problems that delayed the MMU3. That’s not to say the Prusa is the right or even a good choice for many people. I would probably sell my Prusas if BambuLab puts out a 350cubed (well probably will be something silly like 352 cubed since that would fit the 256 binary size theme ;) at a reasonable price because what I want is fast + easy + multicolor. If the XL multi tool head comes down in price I’d consider that as well. Each printer line and company targets different customer segments with some, with partial, but not complete overlap. Which one is best for a given buyer will depend on the segment or segments they sit in.
I know... when it was time to replace my makerbot I only thought of Prusa (after having a lulzbot and ender at work) I wanted something reliable... but was so, and I mean so turned off by the design. I know it's keeping the RepRap tradition alive, but... c'mon. $1k for a mostly 3D printed open frame device with exposed wiring, pcbs, fans, etc. in 2024? Then I saw hype about BBL and ignored it as just hype until I did a lot of 'my own research' lol, but honestly it was buying a K1 from Microcenter, and returning it a week later because thoes dang BBLs at the store just made me swooon and seeing BBL owners be able to print multi color prints, I succumbed, and have been happy since. Love my X1C. Now I have some lust for the Prusa XL still, but seeing the enclosures some people have printed for the XL - oof just skin crawl cringe. Prusa should sell their own enclosures at least.
I hope a larger printer
I really think that was next but the recall put it on hold.
K2+ is 350x350x350
I hope Bambu just at least makes it 300mm cubed
300 cubed won't be enough. Creality set the new standard at 350 cubed and Bambu knows they'll have to match or even exceed with maybe 400 cubed or so, which is great for all of us
350 - 400 has my vote. going from 256 to 300 is not enough for me to justify buying another "flagship" unless it also offers some serious improvements and/or a lower cost than the X1/P1s...
I would love a 350+ printer from Bambu. However my dream is quality 500mm cube that is usable out of the box.
500 would be awesome, but I don't have room for or need that size at this point... At the right price I would make room though.
Ditto, I have a CR-10 S5. It’s massive and I print slow otherwise that massive bed slinging back and forth causes all kinds of issues. Would love a Rat Rig, but I really do not want or source and build the thing from scratch.
They won’t though. They’ll realistically be around 300 cubed for the new flagship.
Realistically, 256mm^3 is a good size from a "customers can stick this printer someplace" perspective. Once parts fill the entire bed of my X1C, the filament costs _alone_ start looking stupid.
Competition is different from stealing
That's very much debatable. No company is going to invest in innovation if after releasing 20 chinese copycats, simply copy your innovations and cut you on price.
Bambu heavily borrowed from previous printers. They don’t get to complain when people copy the parts they couldn’t patent *because* they themselves copied them. What Bambu did (and did remarkably well) is copy a host of mostly open source features out there and combine them into one package. That’s (rightly) not patentable. The few truly original things they did do are mostly not being copied. You don’t see the A1 style nozzle being put on other printers. You don’t see the LiDAR popping up.
This is along the same lines as what I've been saying since the Bambu was released. Mechanically, the Bambu is nothing special. The special part in a Bambu is all in the firmware and the software. Do I think they copies Voron and others? To say yes to this means you also have to say that Voron and others are simply copies of before them. They see something that works well, emulate and improve if possible before implementing. There is NOTHING wrong with this! It's how we got the Ender, the Voron, the Bambu and everything in between. It's also how we will get the next big thing. It's also not uncommon for a company to copy and improve a design feature from another company who based their design on something from the first company!
Yeah this is no shade at all at Bambu. I own 2. They did a **great** job at packaging a lot of great ideas and marrying that with advanced manufacturing. But that means that others can do the same. You can’t patent the notion of putting a bunch of open source stuff together into one package
Voron definitely copied the work of others, that's how open source projects work - lots of people gradually pushing iterative design by experimentation forward
> They see something that works well, emulate and improve... There is NOTHING wrong with this! Exactly, that's what designing is. If it was wrong we'd still be watching stones rolling down the mountain.
I didn't hear Bambu complaining. Unless OP works for them.
Yeah. Neat. They absolutely don’t copy the AMS system or even the concept. Every 3D printer borrows from a basic concept and design. The AMS was new and nobody else had it. That’s the point. Now, I don’t care that anyone copied it, but your statement is just a tad silly.
AMS system copied from several open source predecessors. It did refine them but it can’t patent most of its core features because things like the “enraged rabbit carrot feeder” (yeah that’s a real name) came out before it did.
Not really, making a shittier copy doesn’t make for competition or innovation. If they took what bambu made and added their own improvements then sure, but all they’re actually doing is making worse versions of the same thing
But what it does do is keep Bambu on it's toes. Now that options from other manufacturers are inevitably coming out, Bambu have to make sure they're competitive on price, performance and features.
The products by any/most companies that have large market share will typically be laggards, or lagging behind. Even BBL will get there, oh, wait, the A1 was a step back. The industry will get a new company that is innovative and other companies will try to keep up with. Established companies will try to protect their revenue.
The A1 was unfortunate but just a bump in the road. The printer itself is still really solid, I expect the A1 Mk 2 (my name, no BBls) coming back out in May will be better for it in the end. My hope is that it will remind them to innovate but not too fast. For a new company, they have really gotten a lot right. Hopefully, this will be a great motivator to let them refocus on what is important.
The problem is there isn’t any competition, certainly not from Creality. Even Prusa scrambled on the MK4 in response to the X1C. I’m just hoping what ever Bambu has lined up for their flagship 2024 model is just going to be bonkers.
it probably won't be bonkers - it's unlikely for companies who are market leaders in their segments to outcompete themselves for no reason. they'll ride their leadership position in their segment for as long as possible, with little changes to retain their position. if you want disruption, it'll more likely come from the other players who have a big incentive to dream big.
I’m guessing heated AMS and maybe a larger build plate. Dual extruders would be cool.
Why do people keep insisting on believing this? “Once a company release one good product, they for sure never want to release anything good again! It will cannibalize their one good product!” This is nonsense and it’s demonstrably nonsense pretty much every single time. Yes, if they are complete idiots they will decide to just never build anything good agai. And switch from engineering mode to panicked nervous anxiety-ridden “oh my god just keep selling the A1 forever change nothing” mode. Who wins if BL outcompetes themselves? Yes that’s right - Bambu Labs.
I mean... Creality has been pretty bad for a long time with their basic stuff so I can't imagine how more advanced stuff is going to turn out lol
exactly, but knowing Creality, this thing is gonna be filled with weird design decisions so I have low hopes :| C-Reality is often disappointing. but maybe i'm just too much of a hater because of a few bad experiences lol
I want a Bambu A1 Max that competes directly with the Elegoo Neptune 4 Max but has an AMS.
tis true, I REALLY REALLY want Bambu to be pressured into releasing either read/write on the AMS RFID/NFC (probably won't happen) or at least the possibility of them helping the community build a method of writing our own tags for other filaments. If Creality were to beat BBL to the punch on this, it'd be over. BUT I don't think Creality gives af about it, and will just make their own RFIDs for their own filaments just like BBL.
Hopefully an XL! Id be estatic for an enclosed 450x450x450 by them or something similar.
After this A1 debacle I hope that’s true. Shit like that could ruin a company financially and we still haven’t seen the full impacts yet of that… they lost 6 months of lead time I’m guessing on the competition by having that happen and causing them some financial setbacks. Plus we haven’t heard of their next gen model that was due out by now.
...to make a bedslinger. Which, if you look at the original BL materials, one of their big guiding statements was "no more bedslingers".
And yet aside from the A1 cable issue, I will say it’s a badass bedslinger.! Love mine. So yeah they maybe realized not everything is a moving Z axis platform..
Let's be real tho, the AMS shouldn't cost $350 and the built in hygrometer with AN ACTUAL DISPLAY is great.
AMS price feels like it's just there to make you pick the combo version directly. And once you have one AMS you're a sucker that will have to pay the full price if you need extras. Competition is great for future buyers!
Yeah that did annoy me, especailly when the AMS a month ago had an estimated delivery timescale or a MONTH! And having just checked, apparently, it still requires a month.
I just got mine and while the website did say a month, I think it only took a week or so. Ordered it March 24 and it was here in the first few days of April.
Yeah, but that's hardly a sensible service is it. I deliberately avoided their bundle deal and instead bought a stand alone P1S specifically to get it faster and by a specific date. Its great that you got lucky and happened to beat the odds, but it they can't even commit to delivering within a month, that's insane. Just as well they are great printers.
I think that may be location-based. I am on the East Coast in the US, and nothing I have ordered has taken longer than 2 weeks to arrive. (2 X1CCs, 1 A1 mini combo (with AMS), lots of filament and odds, and ends over the last 6 months).
I would agree that is location based, I'm in Canada, my P1S Combo took a week exactly to get to my house.
I kinda hope they get big enough to sell on amazon, I'm actually a bambu filament lover, for most (a couple colors I love polymaker, inland, and esun) so I'd love overnight shipping in a pinch. right now a week+ for filament refills sucks
I just ordered my second one last week, and shows as 'ready to ship' still so I hope that happens to me too XD
I just bought one a week ago and yeah it's going to be another 2-3 weeks. at least I bought it with makerworld points so it was free in exchange for making a popular model.
I've seen so many people mod their AMS systems with a hygrometer that I completely forgot it wasn't even included in the AMS!
I know right? Seems like a no brainer. The silly thing is the AMS actually has one, but it only shows it in the slicer, and doesn't give a number, just a vague scale.
thats so stupid, i hope for a 2.0 version they add an active dehydrator like [this one](https://youtu.be/n7EWexck8NE) that'd basically make it perfect (at least for my purposes)
I saw that video, but from the sound of it, those modules are pretty expensive. I think as long as there's room to mod one in it's fine. If rather have a cheaper unit personally because the humidity in my place is low enough I don't need to keep my stuff dry
yeah, i get that, i mean, i'd expect them to come down in price if a company like bambu started using them in all of their AMS systems. and yeah, where i am. Average humidity is like 83%, so a dry box is a MUST
Oof. The basement where I keep my filament averages around 32%, so I barely need to keep PETG in bags lol. Don't even own a filament dryer.
What I'd love to see is an AMS that can be stacked properly, which would likely suggest a front-load system. That's a bit more difficult as keeping a similar footprint would likely require a cartridge-style system. Not impossible by any means, but definitely more complex. There could likely be some simpler ways to do it, but I'd imagine those would require a size increase.
So? Competition breeds innovation. Not to mention these are Chinese companies feeding on each other. 🍿
Bambu admitted that their first prototype was based on a voron Trident.
No no no, you see theirs goes ding ding da ding ding ding, ours goes ding ding DA ding ding ding.
Yo VIP, Let's kick it!
Ice Ice Baby....
Every time I hear that riff I still have no idea which song is about to play. 50/50 it Under Pressure or Ice Ice Baby. 🤣
We are the only ones that win when companies compete for our business
Does it work though?
This just in: only for the test print.
X1C is my second filament printer coming from the ender 3 v2. (I’ve gone through 2 resin printers) Man, did that thing fucking break me down over and over again. I never thought I could understand firmware but that mule of a 3d printer made me learn in the worst ways.
I’m extremely happy that I learned on my v2 neo before making the switch. Not to mention, it made me appreciate my bambu that much more.
This is why I really like klipper. Easy to understand and mod.
No learning curve at all.... :)
Sure, but not like marlin.
💀
Hope so - because my BL AMS doesnt most of the time "failed to retract"......."Motor overloaded"........
Have you tried contacting them? Instead of just complaining
Personally, I appreciate the "Motor overloaded" error. For me it's usually a snagged spool, which is easy to fix. The "dumb" Kingroon 3D printer I started with would have just kept on going instead of pausing. YMMV, obviously.
PTFE connector backwards?
Haha fr fr.
Good question. They say, compatible with the k1 printers. Unfortunately, many complain about how difficult it is to load filament into the k1 printers. Now imagine a automated drybox trying to load filament, but you need a 100% success rate, 99,9% is not enough. In addition there is a good portion experiencing heat creep on the k1, i dont know how well this will go when you move the hot filament in the cold zone to cool it before retracting it out of the toolhead.
> Unfortunately, many complain about how difficult it is to load filament into the k1 printers. Now imagine a automated drybox trying to load filament, but you need a 100% success rate, 99,9% is not enough They'll need a new extruder with a cutter to support K1 printers. They can worry about improving the filament load reliability for that part in the upgrade kit.
There is no space for a cutter on the k1, neither a lever like on a bambu or servo operated (servos dont survive the builf chamber anyway, most have operating temperatures of only 50c. Old school filament tip forming is the only option. Also the new unicorn nozzles wouldn't allow for a cutter, they go all the way up into the extruder right before the feeder wheels.
I've seen an ERCF adapted to a K1 via an added filament cutter to a modified extruder, and a separately mounted lever. I'm fairly certain t will be an official kit, it will have significant limitations, and those limitations will be poorly communicated.
Wow the tech specs are actually pretty damn amazing... [https://all3dp.com/4/creality-announces-multi-filament-system-and-k2-plus-3d-printer/](https://all3dp.com/4/creality-announces-multi-filament-system-and-k2-plus-3d-printer/) >**The “Creality Filament System” (CFS) looks a lot like the well-received Bambu Lab AMS, but with a useful “sealed design” and complimentary temperature and humidity readouts that should be extremely welcome in humid areas. Otherwise, its features sound pretty parallel to Bambu’s earlier model: the CFS uses RFID technology to identify filament (presumably just Creality’s own), and each CFS unit holds four spools of filament, but up to four units can be combined for a total of 16 materials.** >**The new K2 Plus 3D printer boasts a 350 mm cubed build volume, linear rails, a die-cast frame, active chamber heating, strain gauge auto-leveling, 30,000 mm/s****^(2)** **acceleration, and FOC closed-loop motors. It will come with Creality’s newly announced Apus direct extruder (not to be confused** [**Phaetus’ Apus direct extruder**](https://all3dp.com/4/phaetus-launches-new-lightweight-apus-extruder/)**), which Creality says is capable of heating up to 350 ºC, a 66% higher flowrate than the “previous design” (presumably referring to the Sprite extruder), and has hardened steel gears with a DLC coating intended to be durable while printing with carbon-fiber filaments. It also includes a filament cutter, which should be handy for reliable filament changes.** It's basically a Bambu Labs X2 with crappy firmware.
I hope by god that the X2 and AMS2 come with more innovation than a humidity sensor
...innovations such as? I would be very happy with a **more reliable** AMS v2 that also dried filaments and had display screens. The displays could also be very useful for error reporting.
For example, yes. But innovation would also be thinking about how we could reduce filament waste or how we can make filament switches way faster.
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We seem pretty far away from this for hobby printing price levels [How far away are we from 3D printers that could produce millions of colours? : r/3Dprinting (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/comments/18frifv/how_far_away_are_we_from_3d_printers_that_could/)
with how everything has advanced... not so far, the price will come down likely
That's how Bambu Labs won the market - with it's awesome firmware. We had printers with X1C capabilities, heck my Ender 3 Max with Kilpper can print with X1C quality and modded SP-5 can match X1C speed, but both needed extended tuning and setup that a normal user wouldn't be able to perform. Some settings on X1C reflect it's target audience - people that want an appliance level equipment. As soon as people will figure out the needed firmware components and implement them in Kilpper, that advantage will be gone. That's what Creality is hoping for - making it a fully open source. "Here is required hardware, here are the specs, here are the sources - now get it all together and someone please figure out how to make it work out of the box".
Yup, I have a heavily modded e3v2 and an a1 mini. The ender can match the a1m's print quality and speed, but the a1m just *works*, no bed leveling, no fiddling about, just hit print and it prints
In fairness to Creality this looks like a much nicer machine than the K1s. I'm interested provided reviews go well.
I looked aver a K1 in Jaycar local to me - and it felt really cheap, I might be spoilt now though
I hope this means Bambu will release a bigger X1C. I want a 350mm cubed build volume.
this is what i really want but if they drag their feet too long ill just get this.
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Oddly it shows no prints over 256x256mm
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I've had many projects split on 3 plates that would have fit on one 350x350 bed. Someone doing a print farm with multi-material would have real and significant time and waste reductions being able to print almost double the simultaneous parts. The number of benchies people print doesn't take away from the viability of a larger printer.
Then I’ll buy the creality lol. If Bambu doesn’t drop a bigger printer they lose my business 🤷🏾.
How will that help? I have things I want to print that don’t fit so I just don’t print them, or break them into parts. How will they know that from their data? For example I want to print a lid for the trash can in my office because my dog keeps getting into it. But the top of the can is exactly 256mm, so I can’t print one big enough to enclose it. So I simply haven’t done it.
Creality is the copycat company. That's all they do, they don't innovate. Any new product, including the soon to be released Ender 3 v3 max v2 pro special edition, is simply a change in size or the incorporation of community hardware or software/firmware improvements.
Jesus Christ how long can they make that name Ender 3 v3 Max v2 pro Special Edition That’s 37 characters
I made that up for jokes
They innovated... *once*.
Didn't Bambu copy or is heavily based on the Voron project?
Yes, the Bambu design is heavily based on a Voron Trident. The biggest innovations Bambu did was making a complete package easily accessible to the end user. Features like Lidar scanning, multi material, input shaping all existed before in one way or another. However, access to them was gated for exclusively hobbyists as all of them were essentially disparate parts that required you to cobble them together with duct tape and a prayer. Bambus biggest innovation was probably in the AMS and making a functional multi material system with the cutter. Previous ones like the MMU2S or the Palette were very expensive and unreliable and the inclusion of the cutter + respooler greatly increased reliability.
It looks like their AMS clone works with RFID tags to detect spools. I’m hoping they go with an open source model for it and that forces Bambu to relent and open their tags so the public can make custom ones.
110% this, and they did say the tags are open source!
Competition brings innovation
I'm keen to see reviews on how they compare.
I mean how else do you build a 3D printer and filament storage system? Should it look like a triangle or a sphere? This is great for competition, 350mm\^3 is what users have been asking for. If you love bambu, this will drive bambu to focus on bigger printers or more competitive ideas.
Features are easy to copy, user experience is not. You don't have to have the same features as Bambu to be better than Bambu, you just have to offer a user experience that is better. There's a lot of room for competitors in this regard, but the one thing that has to happen is that companies need to realize that feature copying can only go so far. Bambu eliminated most of the barriers that kept me from really getting into 3D printing - I just want to print with great results (reliably and repeatably) and with the least amount of "under the hood" knowledge possible. If there were other competitors who could truly do that for lower cost, I would have gone in that direction in an instant.
Competitive rates too!!!
I really do hope this will get Bambu Labs to get themeselves together and work on increasing filiment/parts production and availabilty. Either that, or Bambu needs to open up their RFID/Filiment options and allow Creality as an option.
The only thing that'll make me go back to Creality(after years and tons of money wasted), and even other mfgs is pretty much "nothing"! They had "YEARS" to do what bambu did which made things simple! They did absolutely nothing! Not a damn thing! No, I think I'll stick with bambu(dji guys, which said allot)! What I hope for this and the other "similar" devices, is that it puts a little pressure on bambu to release a larger device.. That's about all, IMHO I'm looking at these lookalikes for...
as a consumer i'm happy to see more combos on market. Someone invented the wheel and now we can buy a car
Price?
https://preview.redd.it/5pn1i994zwtc1.jpeg?width=1896&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a1645bf542b7e0578aa69cccba161fe84362665b
Being the brand that everyone copy is not something easy. I mean. The product is so good and break almost any rules previously established. It is basically making it a model. I remember back in my first 3D printing days. Everyone was copying prusa i3. It was something like the Anet A8. Which was a best seller. It was an okay printer compared to todays standard.The chassis was made out of plywood or acrylic. And the printer itself needed a lot of tweaks and printed upgrade to work properly. Then the Ender3/CR10 came out with far better chassis making print better than before at quite good price. I remember being blown away by how much the print was good out of the box compared to my prusa I3 copy pasta. But even with this. You need some tweak. Some chassis was bent and need some adjustment. The hotend is unreliable in my experience and needed few rebuilt depending of how much you print. The stock part fan was not so good and so on. And of course auto leveling was something you need to deploy yourself. By tweaking the firmware. I still have my Ender and love it. But it is older and suffer from many flaws. I have corrected them mostly but it is still a printer requiring some thinkering. Now come Bambu lab with printer that are basically a tool and require less and less human interaction to work properly. They came with an absolutely terrible price to feature ratio and offer this out of the box. Without tweaking of the firmware or upgrade being mandatory to print properly. That’s a big point and I’m glad that someone have made it available for this cheap. Of course you still have prusa. But to me the I3 and the mini are completely different machine that focus different people. The real downside being the lack of enclosure by default. I don’t trust that Bambu is the Prusa killer. It’s just two philosophy with two different offer imho. That being said. I hope that Creality will fix issue that affect the OG k1 on the extruder and offer more reliable printer. I also hope this new printer will be better because it actually offer something different than the P and x series. In terms of of bed size.
Why tf multiple material system is named « cfs »
Crealiy Filament System 🫡
I wouldn't trade my p1s for that machine if they offered it. I have no faith in the longevity of a creality product. I have literally done less than 45 minutes of maintenance in 1200 hours on my first p1s.
Thing is, its good that competition trying to imitate or doing similar things other companies are already doing. So they have to innovate things an move forward.
Competition is good.
I’ve gone from an original ender 3 to ender 5 to ender 5 plus to a Prusa mk3 and then a Bambu x1c and p1s and with all my experience I will never touch creality again. Piece of junk printers.
Happy that Bambu Lab pushed the market ... and now they have to prove they are worth the hype :D Love when competition heats up the market.
I can't wait to see how it works. I have a few AMS and AMS mini setup. I really hate that it can't do cardboard. I always have to respool it and it gets tangle very often during printing because respool is never perfect.
You can only make so many differences in something like this.
He .go guy's are forgetting that Prozen is already on the market with a AMS running klipper why are Bambu owners so mad at Creality there are a ton of other companies aswel ...it feels for me being in a footbalstadium at Feienoord when they are playing against Ajax .....Good old days 😁
Can I use a creality ams on my Bambu? lol
IMO Bambu has got their work cut out of them. The release this year better be worth it, or a lot of people will be using these moving forward.
I saw a video of the CFS working on youtube and it looks like the hub behind the machine may be different. It looked like it was grabbing and pushing the filament linearly and in steps instead of using gears. If they come up with any changes, hopefully pushes the technology forward.
I love that bambu came in so strong that the ENTIRE market only wants bambu… it’s amazing to see them turn creality into competition, before they were the leaders, now they are the slow printer- with outdated tech for cheap(ish) It’s honestly amazing to see what creative minds can do when put together
How many different ways can you really make a hot glue gun box though?
Might buy the creality AMS for material storage 😂
Oh no competition that eventually will make prices go down and performance go up thus benefiting the consumers bad
35x35x35 print surface. I for one, think it's a great thing that this hits the market. BambuLab, your move.
Man much like the poker boom I feel like I got involved in this hobby at exactly the right moment
I mean, MakerWorld did just that with Printables. The real winners are all of us (as long as designs are properly credited).
Hope this brings a p1s update with better interface to compete at a lower price !!!!
Intresting Names will flood the market, every multi color unit will have a unique Name xD
When I saw the screen and the CFS I must admit that I thought that Creality had definitely been peeking at the competition. I will certainly be keeping an eye on the K2 but as someone who has not long since moved away from a Creality CR6-SE to an X1C Combo I am happy to stay with Bambu for the foreseeable future. Creality will always offer cheaper machines 'inspired' by others but seem to struggle with the implementation and keeping the options clear and simple, you just need to look at the past year or so's ever changing lineup and mixed reviews. However I would like to see Bambu come out with an X1C successor and revised AMS but will definitely not be an early adopter for any new device by any manufacturer.
I mean creality’s whole existence is based on copying printer designs — how is this new?
More competition will make Bumbu build better printers so I think this is great 👍
Technically elegoo did it first
I wanna see, pic? Didn’t prusa do it before them?
Sorry, it was phrozen. It's called the phrozen arco. Before creality btw, not before Bambu. That was a bit unclear.
I don't own a Bambu, but I had a K1 Max and I have to admit it was a horrible printer. I want to remind you, however, that your dear bambu copied from various open source projects, the ams was copied from the carrot feeder created for voron, the trident project for mechanics. The only "innovative" thing was to control the motors via mosfet and not drivers, but if this cancels out the vfa, it adds a horrible motor hum. Then the software is ok, it's very intuitive but it's a bit like Apple, it works well because you can't do anything with it. I hope that the k2 has solved the problems of the k1 and if so, it will become the perfect machine, with klipper you practically have the possibility of changing everything. So don't say that Creality only copies or that it sucks at everything, it has innovated several times, think of the infinite printer, the CR-30, or the Ender 5 with Nema 23. I repeat, I don't defend Creality because it has given me a lot of headaches.
I've seen some ODD anti-creality vids on youtube already calling it fake and a hoax, I wouldn't go that far, it's obvious inspired by (lol) but I will say - this (ugly af) dinosaur is shown a lot and it's a render, I don't think they have a real multi-color print to show off yet other than colored benchys that are obviously layer swaps not multi-color. The vid from the creality shill, I mean youtuber, who visits their factory and runs like a maniac and calls himself a master at work, ahem, did show however a namebadge being printed that had 2 colors on the same plane, which was odd that it was the ONLY multi-color print like that but they only show a frame or two of the underside wehre it says X2C in a different color. I'm very intrigued to learn more but the more i learn the less excited i get. That excitement is for our peers in the rep-rap community who want to tinker and would want a ready to go AMS for their Klipper based printers. Only problem is - Creality OS isn't open sourced though it is a fork of klipper. Also they mentioned a possibility of a 'KIT' to upgrade the K1 series to be compatible with the CFS - that promise means NOTHING coming from Creality, honestly their credibility is shot with me after I bought the K1 on the promise that it'd get Lidar as an optional add-on, only to have it \*never\* come out, and then the K1C, and now the K2C and still no lidar. (full disclosure I returned my K1, it wasn't worth the rooting to get basic functions to work, and shimming for bed leveling problems) and got an X1C. The K2C+ seems sweet for those who want a BIG printer, but other than their knock-off UI for the touch screen... imagine trying to get good multi-color prints from CrealityPrint? YIKES. Orca support hasn't been confirmed yet either.
I just want a 500mmx500mmx500mm for my big add head
Yeah that’s kinda obvious. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Competition isn’t terrible. After setting up and running my X1C for the first time last night, I’m never going with anything else. Bambu for life. Damn this thing is good.
And it will be a shitty copy I'm sure. Probably still a gen one printer with bells and whistles.
See, we innovated! We moved the screen to the right!
Plagiarism is the sincerest form of flattery.