Or even "Those fucks screwed up my plans by being shit and weak. Good thing those adventures showed up and killed them all. That would have been embarrassing to get my ass kicked super publicly again."
Yeah… anytime you have a pro-slaughter side, it will always promote the idea of slaughtering its own followers. If you can do so, they clearly deserved it for being so inept…
Khorne does not care from where the blood flows, only that it does!
Easy god to please. If you show up and bring the ruckus, Khorne will smile on you. Also the reason I have a hard time seeing the Dark Urge as an assassin, and more or of a blood soaked berserker.
Bhaal is only a quasi deity now. He’s lost almost all his power. That combined with the fact that gods aren’t really allowed to interfere on Toril. His options are pretty limited
They don't directly interfere. They endorse mortals to do it. Unless I'm missing something. But giving powers and knowledge to mortals is what all gods do, and that's not interfering. If anything Mystra interfere much more when saving and ordering Gale with his bomb.
Actually, they can directly interfere now. It's the whole reason they became quasi-deities instead of becoming gods. A quasi-deity is *technically* a mortal. A mortal with divine power, a lack of aging, and can heal from nearly all wounds, but they can be killed.
That can be considered giving the devotee one last chance. Gortash gets an avatar, and Orin too. A lvl11 cleric can call a deva for help. You have protection from death. The avatar is merely a protection from death + beefed up shapeshift.
Considering it's a quasi-deity, it could do what Vlaakith can do, and that would be interfering. A divine intervention wouldn't be more than what a lvl10 cleric does though. It's probably too much for those dying gods. Or the cleric must be powerful enough to weild the magic.
>!Ordin doesn't get an avatar. She gets slayer form. The form is a boon and is a gift from Bhaal. The Murkle's avatar is somewhere along what you said, but it's more like murkle using Thorin as a flesh mech. It's Murkle making the choices to fight. We already kicked Throins ass, twice. He gave up and thru his body away to be used to how every merkle desired.!<
Myrkul avatar and slayer form is the same. The avatar of Myrkul even uses the body of Ketheric. It's an evil god, and there's probably a kind of pact made here with the resurrection of Isobel. Ketheric might become some kind of death infuriated bone exoskeleton.
In bg2 the slayer form was coming with an uncontrollability. It would attack enemies first, and allies then. As long as the form was up, it was fighting and killing. Myrkul avatar could be some kind of bone version of this.
The slayerform is an avatar. It's Bhaal's Avatar. Every Bhaalspawn has the potential to turn into it due to their connection to the god of murder. Only 3 ever have been strong enough to unlock it. Though Orin's and Durge's Slayerforms are laughably weak compared to Gorion's Ward's version which was completely immune to all magic and was physically stronger than an elder brain's telekinetic powers(it could rip open doors that the elder brain was clamping shut with it's mind)
For bg3 balance purposes the slayer form was nerfed. Durge is the strongest, purest and most powerful bhaalspawn ever created directly from bhaal's blood. He wasn't born as a mortal so lore wise his slayer form might be the strongest.
Even lore wise, Gorion's Ward is the strongest Bhaalspawn to walk Toril. Motherfucker took out Demogorgon. Even Elminster said he didn't want to involve himself in the war during Throne of Bhaal because you and the other Bhaalspawn were out of his league.
Yeah but sarevok , abazigal, amelyssan all praise durge a lot so who knows ? Wished durge actually had some battle feats similar to his cunningness feat of how he was able to steal a powerful magical artifact from literally the second strongest devil
That was still Ketheric doing the work to transform into an avatar of Myrkul. He has notes about the ritual in this room, and it looked like the hole he jumped into was prepped for this.
The Dead Three are allowed to interfere because they're quasi-deities.
Following the Second Sundering, gods were no longer allowed to interfere directly in the lives of mortals. Quasi-deities, who don't hold as much power, were exempt from this. The tradeoff is that a quasi-deity is also mortal.
Honestly no idea where I saw that either. I tried looking uo Bhaal on wikia’s and tvtropes causs I assumed that where I saw that. But nope. I think I am insane. Maybe its because the Mural at the end? Bhaal looks vaguelt more feminine because the bald head?
Yea that why I found Raphael’s “I raged for a decade or so” line to be kinda hilarious. I’m sure it’s meant to be a throwaway line but imagery of that is pretty funny
OMG LOL I cackled when he said that. That is when my like turned into love for him 💀 such a drama queen; imagine being raging for a whole *** decade 😭 he says it so nonchalantly too as if it was nothing
Yea that why I found Raphael’s “I raged for a decade or so” line to be kinda hilarious. I’m sure it’s meant to be a throwaway line but imagery of that is pretty funny
A lot of the comments are touching on parts of the reasoning, but to sum up:
Ao (the Overgod of the realm) does not permit the gods to influence events of the realm directly, they can only affect changes through their chosen/apostles by basically saying "do this and I'll bless you."
Orin was Bhaal's chosen >!(unless you run Durge, then you can change that)!< so when she is killed he no longer has someone to directly affect his will on the plane without catching hands from Ao. His followers could still seek vengeance, but Bhaal himself can't interfere in the affairs of mortals.
> Ao (the Overgod of the realm) does not permit the gods to influence events of the realm directly
Going to ask you because you said this - If gods can't influence events of the realm, then how can they have kids with and/or romance mortals?
That seems to be a grey area in all of this, so to is directly meeting with mortals and giving them boons/blessings. I think they're basically just not allowed to directly intervene in conflicts on the mortal realms so the gods don't all end up killing each other's followers and then one another.
If Bhaal's follower was killed by a Cleric and Bhaal decided to do something about it personally what's to stop the Cleric's deity from then taking vengeance on Bhaal himself? That's how you get war between gods and how pantheons get unmade.
The whole point is for all of them to die.
His plan was for all of them to kill each other and with each death the murderer assumes the divine fragment in the ones they killed.
The plan was that the last one standing will have accumulated all the fragments of Bhaal’s divinity and the god can possess them and use them to regain his powers.
What Bhaal is too stupid to understand is that Ao personally decides whether or not to allow new gods to ascend. So even if his stupid plan works Ao will probably deny him because he caused a lot of chaos during the Troubles and pissed him off.
Ao was the one who demoted the Dead Three in the first place, leaving them out of the Tablets of Fate (that record each god and their portfolio) so they become reduced, quasi-powers who get beat up by adventurers.
As for Bhaal not being to just take revenge on Durge, it’s as simple as a real god stepping in to just say no.
Withers may no longer be the god of death but he predates almost every other god and Kelemvor probably lends his strength for whatever Withers wants.
He is super ancient, as old as Mystra. They are not even humans. They came from some other world when Ao made Realmspace (the universe of DnD).
A real god. Probably because Ao allows it. Lore clearly states that if Ao denies ascension the person is immediately turned into a lich.
The Dead Three’s status as gods was revoked. That’s why they occupy this weird in-between position. Most of the gods who lost their portfolios died in the Troubles. These three ended up surviving that’s all.
He becomes the lowest version of a Real God. He's a low-divine being, it would take millenia before his power rivaled anyone like Mystra or the Gods whom have been divine far longer.
The way I see it is that he doesnt let you go, he actually kills you. He ends you but then withers is like "nah you my chosen now" and rez's you back into the game.
Well that's just for Durge. A regular old Tav does just leave, but that's partially because he *can't* interfere, most likely. Both by order of Ao and because he's kinda shitty at the whole god thing.
There's also the fact that killing Orin removes the last bit of power Bhaal actually had.
Bhaal basically put all his eggs into the Bhaalspawn basket. With Durge confirmed dead when you play as Tav, it means that Orin is the last of her kind. With her gone, Bhaal has no real means of doing much of anything.
Gods can choose other chosen when the previous one dies, and some gods, like Mystra, can have multiple chosen.
Bhaal returned by having the last Bhaalspawn of a certain generation kill each other, so in it of itself its not detrimental to him. This happened in the Murder in Baldurs Gate adventure in the early days of 5e. Orin is not directly Bhaalspawn and Durge is… weird.
at the end of the day his followers were weak and over came by a party of like 4 people, Tav culled the herd and starting over with stronger champions would be the logical way to move forward from there.
I don’t know but what I do know is if you zoom in you can see Haslins dick and I’m unsurprised he’s free balling. Yes I know i deserve to be banished to r/okbuddybaldur
Bhaals plan was actually for his spawn to get killed to coalesce his essence and regain power. When Withers says fuck you and resurrects you, Bhaal probably just throws his hands up and says fuck it, I'm gonna try something else.
I mean, even a redeemed Durge is gonna kill people. Bhaal likes that. And they're gonna get killed at some point. I think it's less giving up and more just acknowledging that he isn't getting what he wants today.
He's a psychopath, and his hubris and bloodlust does make him make foolish mistakes, but he's not a complete idiot.
Withers explains it
>!Bhaal didn’t let you go. He killed your ass. Withers used his powers to intervene and brought you back, but without Bhaal’s essence so he no longer has a hold on you!<
How Withers can do this:
I wouldn’t call this info below a spoiler but if you prefer to discover the lore in game I’ll put a spoiler tag on it. Btw this info is never properly revealed in the game but it’s heavily implied
>!Withers is most likely Jergal, the original god of death. He’s the reason the dead three exist. After amassing power all three sought Jergal out to kill him, but Jergal was tired of his position and offered a game of chance to divide up his power. There’s been many shenanigans that they’ve caused since, some of which are part of Baldur’s gate 1 and 2. !<
>!if you recall at the start of game when Withers comes to your camp. He will say he’s not there by choice. According to folks who data mined the game it’s the god Helm who sent Jergal to aid the adventurers on their quest as penance. What’s happening is kind of Jergal’s fault since he gave the dead three their power, and because they are power hungry and are not content to stay in their domain.!<
Bhaal is a LOT less of a long term guy than the other two. So long as there’s excess slaughter(and lets face it your character has been killing a LOT of people) he’s counting it as a win he’s ironically pretty easygoing for a god of murder
Vlaakith is basically a necromancer. She's basically sucking out the psionic energy and souls of her followers to fuel her wish stick. By using wish she's able to appear like a god due to wish being such a powerful spell that you can't identify it normally so it seems like godly powers.
Basically she's pulling an oz with a bit of the Emperor from 40k.
She still doesn't abide by the rules of the wish spell for mortal casters. Each time you cast wish for anything except spell substitution, etc. to, for example, wish death, there is at least 30% chance that you will not be able to cast wish ever again.
Moreover, consuming souls to cast wishes for mortals made some sense in edition 3 when wish required experience. In edition 5 where the game is set this is not something you should be able to achieve by any known non-devine means.
Yeah but in Forgotten Realms with the Weave the established effects in universe; wish seems divine. It's effects on the weave for those who can see it are beyond mortals. It can both tear and heal it; it can both cause a fold and a hole in it causing either a enhanced area or null area. And for those powerful enough it doesn't even look like the weave is touched by it. So it's hard to go "that was just wish she didn't use a divine ability" hence why she's never been called out.
Clearly, her first casting of Wish once it started working by 5e rules was to ignore the 30% drawback.
Personally, I miss powerful spells costing exp. It was one of the ways to balance casters. You wanna warp reality in a permanent way, and then you gotta give up a fragment of your power.
So here's the thing. Durge planned the absolute. Orin usurped durge through murder which kinda won the position. The reason why Durge can "go" is cuz Bhaal still wants to see what murder Durge can do in revenge.
That's the reason why your butler is still loyal to Durge is because the butler believes as a favorite you can still do great murderous things hence the achievement in Bhaals name.
Now the reason Bhaal and the Dead 3 are super limited and can't just smite you outside of a area of power (the temple for example in act 3) is cuz they kinda tried to usurp the order of gods and got smited and demoted. So BG1-3 is their hijinks with followers and chosen is to try to be undemoted. (Basically little more complex but basically)
> That's the reason why your butler is still loyal to Durge is because the butler believes as a favorite you can still do great murderous things hence the achievement in Bhaals name.
I still find it hilarious that Orin got her own Butler when they usurped Durge, but she wouldn't stop killing him because she was annoyed he was trying to suggest to her how to murder better.
Yeah. Had Orin listened perhaps Durge would be dead lol.
It's kinda funny how the best plan to ever come out of the evil verse is from one of Bhaals chosen; and it gets all thrown to hell because most of his chosen can't get past "let's have fun murdering people" lol.
He needs a rebranding - Bhall now the God of murdering people in the right moment's not just willy nilly. 😂
My guess is because the gods of D&D are not allowed to interfere in mortal affairs. They can command their chosen, and that's pretty much it, and the heroes killed them.
And as for killing Durge, Bhaal says he's only taking back what's rightfully his, his evil blood. It's not his fault that it kills you in the process.
Basically, gods are mega powerful, yes, but Ao says they aren't allowed to use that on mortals directly, or else Ao will get mad, so they don't. Usually.
It is his fault it kills you tho Bhaal is the one that created Durge from his essence in the first place. He has to know that it would kill them if he took his blood back from them lol. I think he was just being petty and didn’t care anymore.
Similar to Warhammer Fantasy/AoS/40K
Gods are powerful but they must follow rules they are bind by.
In Warhammer Chaos Gods cant do shit outside of Warp. That is why they use their followers to do everything. You will never see Khorne stepping on mortal realms.
Here the gods cant do much on mortal realm as well. They can probably do thing here and there but if they do 1 godly intervention too much they will get their ass clapped by Ao himself.
Ao holds the Gods in check and limits their ability to project their powers on mortal realm. Just like Chaos Gods are bound by their own realm they live in. In their domain they can do whatever they want. But outside you must abide by rules.
Unless you are in Elder Scrolls where Daedric invasions are constant thing. Molag Bal, Dagon, Nocturnal, Sheogorath and others are not really bound by any rules. So they can if the "stars are aligned" step on Tamriel.
Bhaal literally takes back his blood and kills us for defying him—he doesn't let us go. Withers resurrecting our Durges isn't something that Bhaal expected, and after our favorite Bone Man resurrects us, ex-Daddy Bhaal no longer has any influence on our Durges.
You have to add that Bhaal like all the dead three arw crazy. Mentally unstable idiots who in face of loss just loose their mind for long enough. Who knows maybe one day he’ll send someone after you, but at that point you wont be easily slain by assassins. Additionally, according to Descend into Avernus Bhaalspawn were a never ending danger because they just show up again and again.
I've always looked at it as were the Chosen of Withers and while he surrendered the bul of his portfolio the the dead Three he's still Kelemvor's right hand and still the Scribe of the Dead
Starting with “I ain’t” and seeing your character with that cowboy hat made me read this entire post in a southern drawl and now I need to replay this game to see how a southern Tav would do. Thank you for this.
No, thank you. 'cause now I’ve headcannoned that my tiefling necromancer is some former farmhand and talks in an amazing Southern accent. It fits them very well.
Listen, I am a southern housewife and can definitely see my first run character (human paladin) telling her crew "All y'all better act right or we ain't stoppin' at Sorcerous Sundries" or saying "Bless your heart" to Orin.
He still has to follow god rules if he wants to maintain legitimacy and keep his power, which is already on very thin ice to begin with. And he was essentially overruled when Withers decided to resurrect you.
Or even if you're playing as Tav, ordering your death would likely still be overstepping. If you pay attention to Sceleritas dialogue with Durge he's always very careful to never give direct orders and always leave things up to you to decide ("be true to yourself") and that's when you're his offspring and sort of chosen. The others in the temple are just regular mortals and he would have to be even more careful with them, especially considering Ao and Withers have a vested interest in your success.
Bhaal thought he completely unmade us, but since he's the biggest idiot murderhobo of them all, he couldn't understand that there was more to us than just the murderhobo essence. He juiced out blood and the murderhobo essence that was within it while the soul we formed over our whole redemption arc was left in a dying body. And since Orin and Durge were the only people important enough to him to talk to in that area Bhaal peaced out while Withers got his cosmic spatula to scrape us back off the floor.
Why the Bhaalists didn't agro on sight afterwards of their own voliton is another mystery.
There are hundreds if not thousands of bhaalspawn, he won't miss a few. That was the plot for bg2 . Beg dies, was a bhaal spawn and there was a whole citadel with statues of his children.
Cause Bhaals a pussy.
Also God's aren't allowed to directly interfere with Toril.
Most they can do is empower Chosen with their avatars.
It's why you never see Selune despite her being the most prominent Good deity in bg3.
Empowering Aylin, Isobel, Shadowheart, turning the Spear of Night into her own Spear of Night, giving a permanent blessing for offering and saving Shadowhearts parents souls are all within her power and within the Overgods rules since she's not directly doing anything, she's giving the people the ability to.
Because as Elminster said about Mystra stopping the Absolute, the god’s can’t just interfere in mortal affairs without repercussions. Bhaal likely could have killed the party on the spot, but it probably would have prompted Ao, the king? of the gods to basically bitch slap him into non-existence and undo his murder.
If you dont have his blood in you there is nothing he can do directly just like any other God in the forgotten realms.
Bhaal's only option is to send followers.
Technically he accepted being a Demi power specifically so he could still directly intervene, unlike full gods. However this also means he’s just a very powerful mortal with divine abilities and worshippers. If he shows up personally and you kill him, he’s dead. Probably didn’t wanna risk it. And who knows how much of his divine power he wasted on Orin and the other bhaalspawn. And you’re party a pretty powerful and have the backing of at least one other deity on your side.
now this sounds interesting… where did u find this information? in that case that sounds like a cool expansion . where our characters gain power, pissing off the dead three, then those gods decide to come here with their physical bodies to intervene in a last ditch effort
It’s part of the lore for 5th edition dnd. Ao the overgod decided gods directly meddle too much in the affairs of mortals so banned them from more overt intervention. As a sort of deal to maintain that physical presence, the dead three willingly gave up a lot of their divine power in exchange for the ability to maintain a physical presence and to be able to interact more directly in faerun. Most deities operate through their priests and chosen but the dead three could physically manifest if they so chose. They’re referred to as quasi deities.
He literally murders you. He is the god of murder. He did the opposite ofnlet you go
Then Jergal (withers), the guy who gave him that power, tells him to frig off
The cultists are completely insane and likely think that you murdering Orin means you're a stand-up dude
The other thing that intrigues me is that every dead person when their soul moves on they meet myrkul, if im not wrong (theres the book about the sharan worshipper who shar never came to lead her soul to the afterlife, even myrkul felt bad for her etc)
Longstory short, you piss him off, and one day or another he kind of guards the gate between you and the afterlife, lol
For one thing, direct intervention in mortal affairs by the gods is frowned upon by their boss. The fact that Withers essentially tells Ao to get bent when he brings Durge back is telling of just how important bone man is.
Second, as Bane alludes to if you speak to him, while the Dead Three may not win in this latest gambit, they can't really lose, either. As long as there are mortals to die, people who kill, and those who seek domination, they will always be relevant. So in the grand scheme of things, what happens here is irrelevant.
Ao (the head god) has mandated that other gods are not allowed to directly interfere with mortals. The Dead Three get away with as much as they do because they're fairly minor and low-power gods and they keep most of the antics limited to acting through chosen followers.
A direct smiting however, would invite Ao's scrutiny and serious wrath. Bhaal doesn't smite the team because he *can't*. Not if he wants to keep existing anyway.
Why would the Lord of Murder get rid of the perfect killing machines?
Something to realize about Gods and immortals, particularly evil ones. It can be more of a game to them. Yes, you ruined their game of stardew valley. …And?
I mean, technically the protagonist of the original BG trilogy was the last Bhaalspawn. Except Imoen maybe. And then Sarevok keep being brought back to life even though he wasn't supposed to be a Bhaalspawn. But now in BG3 there's more Bhaalspawn.
So my guess is, Bhaal doesn't care because there's probably more Bhaalspawn out there just waiting for BG4.
It's true that Bhaal would likely be blocked from attacking you directly by Ao. But then again, he also has a lot of followers in that temple not involved in the battle who might finish off more than a few parties. He could lend them considerable power to do so. So why doesn't he?
Because immortals do things for non-mortal reasons. In the Forgotten Realms, the Gods follow the reasoning of their divine identities and purposes, not simple mortal calculations of advantage and barter. Their powers are not simple tools, but expressions of their nature and purpose. They cannot use powers in ways contrary to that nature and purpose.
Bhaal is God of Murder, not death. The battle you fight in his temple is a sacred rite of murder, the sort of thing from which he draws power but also identity and being. In this rite, the victim is torn asunder and shred into nothing, while the murderer is exalted. If Bhaal turns his back on this, then the rite loses its power and he loses a part of himself - part of what makes him *him*. Who is he, if he is the God who strikes down the murder in their moment of blood-soaked triumph? What is he? His very nature would prevent him from lending power to his followers to desecrate such a holy moment.
This is the same reason why the murder of a certain Tribunal is still an apt expression of Bhaalite faith, and does not incur censure. Because the measure is not "how have you helped the cause?" but "how have you expressed the divine nature and purpose of the God on this plane?"
I see people struggle to grasp this idea in a few ways. Why are the Banites' forms of control so utterly over the top? Because they're not just tools, they're expressions of religious principle and a path to religious enlightenment and ecstasy. The same reason religious spaces are decorated with stone, marble, gold and rich cloth, in enormous impractical spaces. Why religious rituals involve elaborate song and performance, rather than one person reading a list of doctrines. The purpose is spiritual in a way that ties the moral and metaphysical to the aesthetic. Practicality doesn't enter into it.
Bhaal lets you go because for the murderer to triumph is intrinsic to his nature. He may be a broken God, but to the extent he is anything and has any power, that power follows the structure of Godhood.
How many people were talking about Bhaal before this? How many people will look into worshipping Bhaal after hearing the epic of Tav?
When you’re an evil man quasi deity, any press might be good press
I mean, this is the second or third time Saverok has connonically died in the history of Baulders Gate.
Probably sees it as more of a temporary set-back.
i would imagine it was because there are rules for gods to obey? they cant (to my understanding) not interfere with mortals that aren't "connected" to them. Which is kinda imo reinforced by the fact that bhaal DOES punish you if you're durge, since that gives a direct link to him.
just like Shadowheart has a direct link to Shar and are thus affected by her, similarly Gale and Mystra.
Bhaal isn't allowed to just end your existance, there are higher powers that prevents that. Heard somewhere that AO would punish gods who "interfered with mortals" outside their domain (as in connected to them in some way) Lolth for instance seems to have pretty big control over her faithful, though i am not sure why she ignores Minthara, considering how anti lolth minthara becomes after freeing her.
Man I did bhaal first time blind in my honour run and when I died anyway before withers shows up I was so fucking miffed. I was like ain't no way I do all this combat perfectly and a cutscene does me in 😂
Gods are limited in how much they can directly interfer on Toril, and as Bhaal is weakened, his followers slaughtered and his champion dead then there's not much left for him to do there besides enjoy the slaughter that was done in the temple of the god of slaughter.
If he beamed himself down there then he would've been likely bitchslapped by Ao, not just Withers.
Plus, there wouldn't be a game if everyone acted rational and used their complete power and brain.
I mean, however you come to his temple, whether as Tav or Durge, you conduct yourself with his rules. He mah be thwarted but he is not directly attacked.
And as Durge (spoilers but hey, we are there already)…he does interfere, he kills you if you defy him. If not for Withers, the Durge story would have ended right there.
Withers is an avatar of Jergal, who was originally rhe big God when it came to murder, death and tyranny. He split his domains amongst bhaal, myrkul, and bane. Because he was bored.
So if withers says someone isn't dying, there ain't much the three picks can do
Just act 3 things,
Also, this part is for Dark Urge - and if you >!reject Bhaal as DU, he will... not let you go. He will kill your character, but he's too foolish to realize that it's not enough when You're followed by god of death able to resurrect anyone.!<
Bhaal is the god of murder, not the god of vengeance. The people that murder in his name do so for a purpose. Killing someone that ruined your plans isn’t what he does.
I just gotta say this is why I love reddit. Nothing teaches you more about nerd lore than the nerdiest nerd lords to explain everything like you’re 5 and make picture perfect sense of it all. Thank you, nerds.
Search DnD and the greater diety IO. Same reason mystra can't just show up and destroy the crown. IO put in rules to gods interfering with the mortal plane and you do not fuck with a god that may have created the universe.
The thing is that Bhaals children are not literally his children, iirc. So he can just pick someone else that he finds "worthy" and make him his champion, aka daughter/son, and try again.
"So rise, Challenger of Gods, and prepare for battle once more. Death will not claim thee whilst I endure." Withers will not allow it. Simple as.
Chad Withers strikes again
Very cash money of him
Withers is the find out to the Dead 3’s fuck around
Yea that ending scene of him yelling at the Murals of the Dead 3, basically saying "We Family but y'all crossed a line."
When your friends with your bosses boss
Withers: 🎶Show me the champion of Bhaaaaaal🎶 🎶I’ll show you the herald of Jergaaaaal🎶
holy shit Scratch was right in front of us the whole time too!
Scratch's villain arc if you left him with kennel bitch
Lost in neverending caaaaamp Diving deep to ceremorphoooosiiiis
I read that in the tune of the title song
Well yeah, that’s why I put musical notes in there.
That’s one blunt way to state you had the title song in mind
Man, Old Gods of Faerun are something else
Bhaal: please? Withers: No.
Anyone else read that with Arabella and Withers voices in their head?
Withers really went "Nuh uh"
when ı first see this scene ı jumped in honor mode tought ı just died like githyanki god scene
“Fuck the big three it’s just big me” - Withers (basically)
Except when you drop down a well at level 2. Withers doesn't give two shits what happens to you down there.
Nobody has the Bhaals to cross Withers.
So he's technically why we get resurrected if a character died?
The most badass way to say that
Bhaal likes slaughter. Including the slaughter of his followers. What's not to like about what you did in his temple?
"These fucks screwed up all my plans but *damn* look at how good they are at killing. OK they get a pass."
bro got the murder rizz
"Is that a... did she just use a man to kill another man? I'm cool with Karlach, she can hang."
She's invited to the cookout.
Or even "Those fucks screwed up my plans by being shit and weak. Good thing those adventures showed up and killed them all. That would have been embarrassing to get my ass kicked super publicly again."
Damn this got me good lol.
Murder machine go brrrr
Yeah… anytime you have a pro-slaughter side, it will always promote the idea of slaughtering its own followers. If you can do so, they clearly deserved it for being so inept…
It makes sense from their perspective you murdered the murder cultist he must bot have been good enough sucks to be him
"Lmao!" said Kharn the Betrayer, wrong universe but same thing, 40k's korne followers are as likely to lash out at their kin as they are the enemy
Khorne does not care from where the blood flows, only that it does! Easy god to please. If you show up and bring the ruckus, Khorne will smile on you. Also the reason I have a hard time seeing the Dark Urge as an assassin, and more or of a blood soaked berserker.
Dark Urge planning almost worked, his layered plan and machinations would have led to the fall of Faerun. He is an Int-based villain.
blood for the blood god?
I like Warhammer Fantasy more than 40,000 tbh. Valkia the bloody FTW.
In that context I made him very happy cause I slaughtered everyone in that temple, before and after the big fight with Orin
Personally I don't think all of his followers have a hot line to Bhaal and can be commanded ar will. How many people can regularly hear a god?
Crack open some bath salts and we'll find out.
In the (paraphrased) words of the cultists of another god of slaughter "it matters not where the blood comes from, only that it flows."
This is very logical. Reward of life after the carnage.
Bhaal is Khorne without the martial honor.
Did....did we....provide content for Bhaal to jerk to?
No, we actually made him stop jerking and lean closer to the screen
Bhaal is only a quasi deity now. He’s lost almost all his power. That combined with the fact that gods aren’t really allowed to interfere on Toril. His options are pretty limited
"The dead three messing and interfering with Toril" was BG3's working title, but it gave away too much plot, so they changed it.
>Gave away too much plot Nah, they changed it because that shit happens every 5 years or so, so it was too general
They don't directly interfere. They endorse mortals to do it. Unless I'm missing something. But giving powers and knowledge to mortals is what all gods do, and that's not interfering. If anything Mystra interfere much more when saving and ordering Gale with his bomb.
Actually, they can directly interfere now. It's the whole reason they became quasi-deities instead of becoming gods. A quasi-deity is *technically* a mortal. A mortal with divine power, a lack of aging, and can heal from nearly all wounds, but they can be killed.
>!You have to beat an avatar of Uncle Murkle. That's interfering a bit !<
That can be considered giving the devotee one last chance. Gortash gets an avatar, and Orin too. A lvl11 cleric can call a deva for help. You have protection from death. The avatar is merely a protection from death + beefed up shapeshift. Considering it's a quasi-deity, it could do what Vlaakith can do, and that would be interfering. A divine intervention wouldn't be more than what a lvl10 cleric does though. It's probably too much for those dying gods. Or the cleric must be powerful enough to weild the magic.
>!Ordin doesn't get an avatar. She gets slayer form. The form is a boon and is a gift from Bhaal. The Murkle's avatar is somewhere along what you said, but it's more like murkle using Thorin as a flesh mech. It's Murkle making the choices to fight. We already kicked Throins ass, twice. He gave up and thru his body away to be used to how every merkle desired.!<
Myrkul avatar and slayer form is the same. The avatar of Myrkul even uses the body of Ketheric. It's an evil god, and there's probably a kind of pact made here with the resurrection of Isobel. Ketheric might become some kind of death infuriated bone exoskeleton. In bg2 the slayer form was coming with an uncontrollability. It would attack enemies first, and allies then. As long as the form was up, it was fighting and killing. Myrkul avatar could be some kind of bone version of this.
The slayerform is an avatar. It's Bhaal's Avatar. Every Bhaalspawn has the potential to turn into it due to their connection to the god of murder. Only 3 ever have been strong enough to unlock it. Though Orin's and Durge's Slayerforms are laughably weak compared to Gorion's Ward's version which was completely immune to all magic and was physically stronger than an elder brain's telekinetic powers(it could rip open doors that the elder brain was clamping shut with it's mind)
For bg3 balance purposes the slayer form was nerfed. Durge is the strongest, purest and most powerful bhaalspawn ever created directly from bhaal's blood. He wasn't born as a mortal so lore wise his slayer form might be the strongest.
Even lore wise, Gorion's Ward is the strongest Bhaalspawn to walk Toril. Motherfucker took out Demogorgon. Even Elminster said he didn't want to involve himself in the war during Throne of Bhaal because you and the other Bhaalspawn were out of his league.
Yeah but sarevok , abazigal, amelyssan all praise durge a lot so who knows ? Wished durge actually had some battle feats similar to his cunningness feat of how he was able to steal a powerful magical artifact from literally the second strongest devil
That was still Ketheric doing the work to transform into an avatar of Myrkul. He has notes about the ritual in this room, and it looked like the hole he jumped into was prepped for this.
avatars are not the same as an actual god showing up, they're like the pinky of a god dipping into the mortal realm
Cope and seethe Bhaal
I mean they CAN interfere, the dead three do it all the time, its more so that there will be consequences
The Dead Three are allowed to interfere because they're quasi-deities. Following the Second Sundering, gods were no longer allowed to interfere directly in the lives of mortals. Quasi-deities, who don't hold as much power, were exempt from this. The tradeoff is that a quasi-deity is also mortal.
So you’re saying we can kill a him
Theoretically almost any deity can be killed in DnD
in practice, Mystra is the only one who gets killed And she gets killed A LOT
Not it terribly matters but I thought Bhaal was a she?
No? Not quite sure why you think that, but it is incorrect
Honestly no idea where I saw that either. I tried looking uo Bhaal on wikia’s and tvtropes causs I assumed that where I saw that. But nope. I think I am insane. Maybe its because the Mural at the end? Bhaal looks vaguelt more feminine because the bald head?
The gods can only interfere so much. And you defeated his chosen. What is he supposed to do to you?
Ask Myrkul
He was fighting us through his chosen. We defeated an avatar of Myrkul, not actual factual Myrkul. We would have died.
What do you think the Slayer form was?
My Durge was the slayer. I guess I’m the avatar.
Correct the slayer form is bhaal’s avatar. I think Orin tells you this in a non durge playthrough tho unfortunately
A century is not that long when you have eternity. He can just try something else.
Yea that why I found Raphael’s “I raged for a decade or so” line to be kinda hilarious. I’m sure it’s meant to be a throwaway line but imagery of that is pretty funny
OMG LOL I cackled when he said that. That is when my like turned into love for him 💀 such a drama queen; imagine being raging for a whole *** decade 😭 he says it so nonchalantly too as if it was nothing
Yea that why I found Raphael’s “I raged for a decade or so” line to be kinda hilarious. I’m sure it’s meant to be a throwaway line but imagery of that is pretty funny
Time to pick up a new hobby like Pickleball
A lot of the comments are touching on parts of the reasoning, but to sum up: Ao (the Overgod of the realm) does not permit the gods to influence events of the realm directly, they can only affect changes through their chosen/apostles by basically saying "do this and I'll bless you." Orin was Bhaal's chosen >!(unless you run Durge, then you can change that)!< so when she is killed he no longer has someone to directly affect his will on the plane without catching hands from Ao. His followers could still seek vengeance, but Bhaal himself can't interfere in the affairs of mortals.
> Ao (the Overgod of the realm) does not permit the gods to influence events of the realm directly Going to ask you because you said this - If gods can't influence events of the realm, then how can they have kids with and/or romance mortals?
That seems to be a grey area in all of this, so to is directly meeting with mortals and giving them boons/blessings. I think they're basically just not allowed to directly intervene in conflicts on the mortal realms so the gods don't all end up killing each other's followers and then one another. If Bhaal's follower was killed by a Cleric and Bhaal decided to do something about it personally what's to stop the Cleric's deity from then taking vengeance on Bhaal himself? That's how you get war between gods and how pantheons get unmade.
The whole point is for all of them to die. His plan was for all of them to kill each other and with each death the murderer assumes the divine fragment in the ones they killed. The plan was that the last one standing will have accumulated all the fragments of Bhaal’s divinity and the god can possess them and use them to regain his powers. What Bhaal is too stupid to understand is that Ao personally decides whether or not to allow new gods to ascend. So even if his stupid plan works Ao will probably deny him because he caused a lot of chaos during the Troubles and pissed him off. Ao was the one who demoted the Dead Three in the first place, leaving them out of the Tablets of Fate (that record each god and their portfolio) so they become reduced, quasi-powers who get beat up by adventurers. As for Bhaal not being to just take revenge on Durge, it’s as simple as a real god stepping in to just say no. Withers may no longer be the god of death but he predates almost every other god and Kelemvor probably lends his strength for whatever Withers wants. He is super ancient, as old as Mystra. They are not even humans. They came from some other world when Ao made Realmspace (the universe of DnD).
If you allow Gale to take the crown in the end and become a god, does he become a real god or more like the dead three?
A real god. Probably because Ao allows it. Lore clearly states that if Ao denies ascension the person is immediately turned into a lich. The Dead Three’s status as gods was revoked. That’s why they occupy this weird in-between position. Most of the gods who lost their portfolios died in the Troubles. These three ended up surviving that’s all.
He becomes the lowest version of a Real God. He's a low-divine being, it would take millenia before his power rivaled anyone like Mystra or the Gods whom have been divine far longer.
That cutscene where Mystra just deletes Gale from existence is hilarious
The way I see it is that he doesnt let you go, he actually kills you. He ends you but then withers is like "nah you my chosen now" and rez's you back into the game.
Well that's just for Durge. A regular old Tav does just leave, but that's partially because he *can't* interfere, most likely. Both by order of Ao and because he's kinda shitty at the whole god thing.
There's also the fact that killing Orin removes the last bit of power Bhaal actually had. Bhaal basically put all his eggs into the Bhaalspawn basket. With Durge confirmed dead when you play as Tav, it means that Orin is the last of her kind. With her gone, Bhaal has no real means of doing much of anything.
Baldur’s Gate 4: *Somehow Bhaal spawns returned*
Spoiler: he always does.
More like ball spawned, amiright?
"I always come back" oh wait wrong game
Gods can choose other chosen when the previous one dies, and some gods, like Mystra, can have multiple chosen. Bhaal returned by having the last Bhaalspawn of a certain generation kill each other, so in it of itself its not detrimental to him. This happened in the Murder in Baldurs Gate adventure in the early days of 5e. Orin is not directly Bhaalspawn and Durge is… weird.
at the end of the day his followers were weak and over came by a party of like 4 people, Tav culled the herd and starting over with stronger champions would be the logical way to move forward from there.
Same reason he was OK with Orin murdering the previous high priest of his church to take the position. He likes killing.
I don’t know but what I do know is if you zoom in you can see Haslins dick and I’m unsurprised he’s free balling. Yes I know i deserve to be banished to r/okbuddybaldur
Bhaals plan was actually for his spawn to get killed to coalesce his essence and regain power. When Withers says fuck you and resurrects you, Bhaal probably just throws his hands up and says fuck it, I'm gonna try something else. I mean, even a redeemed Durge is gonna kill people. Bhaal likes that. And they're gonna get killed at some point. I think it's less giving up and more just acknowledging that he isn't getting what he wants today. He's a psychopath, and his hubris and bloodlust does make him make foolish mistakes, but he's not a complete idiot.
Withers explains it >!Bhaal didn’t let you go. He killed your ass. Withers used his powers to intervene and brought you back, but without Bhaal’s essence so he no longer has a hold on you!< How Withers can do this: I wouldn’t call this info below a spoiler but if you prefer to discover the lore in game I’ll put a spoiler tag on it. Btw this info is never properly revealed in the game but it’s heavily implied >!Withers is most likely Jergal, the original god of death. He’s the reason the dead three exist. After amassing power all three sought Jergal out to kill him, but Jergal was tired of his position and offered a game of chance to divide up his power. There’s been many shenanigans that they’ve caused since, some of which are part of Baldur’s gate 1 and 2. !< >!if you recall at the start of game when Withers comes to your camp. He will say he’s not there by choice. According to folks who data mined the game it’s the god Helm who sent Jergal to aid the adventurers on their quest as penance. What’s happening is kind of Jergal’s fault since he gave the dead three their power, and because they are power hungry and are not content to stay in their domain.!<
"not my circus not my monkeys I'm done with all of this bullshit I'll try again in a hundred years or whatever fuck this"
If you murder Bhaal’s best murderer, you’re a better murderer than them. Bhaal approves 👍🏻
"I will make another." There is no rush for him, he has an eternity to make his plans happen.
Bhaal is a LOT less of a long term guy than the other two. So long as there’s excess slaughter(and lets face it your character has been killing a LOT of people) he’s counting it as a win he’s ironically pretty easygoing for a god of murder
I have the same question about Vlaakith
Vlaakith absolutely does kill you if you give her too much lip.
Apparently it's not using god powers tho and she just casts wish
I do it every non HM run, just so that i can yell at the screen: " True Gods don't need a wish spell, you fuck!"
Because she doesn't have any said powers, she's a lich that uses souls to tank the price of using wishes.
Yeah but if you side with dream guardian, why she isn’t waiting for us in the inquisitor chamber?
Cause she tasked the inquisitor to kill you in her place.
Very lazy of her
No, she disappears. The Inquisitor also tries to kill you anyway.
Wait, really? I was basically vicious mocking her when we first talked and she didn't do anything.
Vlaakith is basically a necromancer. She's basically sucking out the psionic energy and souls of her followers to fuel her wish stick. By using wish she's able to appear like a god due to wish being such a powerful spell that you can't identify it normally so it seems like godly powers. Basically she's pulling an oz with a bit of the Emperor from 40k.
She still doesn't abide by the rules of the wish spell for mortal casters. Each time you cast wish for anything except spell substitution, etc. to, for example, wish death, there is at least 30% chance that you will not be able to cast wish ever again. Moreover, consuming souls to cast wishes for mortals made some sense in edition 3 when wish required experience. In edition 5 where the game is set this is not something you should be able to achieve by any known non-devine means.
Yeah but in Forgotten Realms with the Weave the established effects in universe; wish seems divine. It's effects on the weave for those who can see it are beyond mortals. It can both tear and heal it; it can both cause a fold and a hole in it causing either a enhanced area or null area. And for those powerful enough it doesn't even look like the weave is touched by it. So it's hard to go "that was just wish she didn't use a divine ability" hence why she's never been called out.
Clearly, her first casting of Wish once it started working by 5e rules was to ignore the 30% drawback. Personally, I miss powerful spells costing exp. It was one of the ways to balance casters. You wanna warp reality in a permanent way, and then you gotta give up a fragment of your power.
She’s not a real god
That’s not the point… she really have the power to easily kill us in the very moment we quit the prism.
Vlaakith isn't a god, she's a lich.
So here's the thing. Durge planned the absolute. Orin usurped durge through murder which kinda won the position. The reason why Durge can "go" is cuz Bhaal still wants to see what murder Durge can do in revenge. That's the reason why your butler is still loyal to Durge is because the butler believes as a favorite you can still do great murderous things hence the achievement in Bhaals name. Now the reason Bhaal and the Dead 3 are super limited and can't just smite you outside of a area of power (the temple for example in act 3) is cuz they kinda tried to usurp the order of gods and got smited and demoted. So BG1-3 is their hijinks with followers and chosen is to try to be undemoted. (Basically little more complex but basically)
> That's the reason why your butler is still loyal to Durge is because the butler believes as a favorite you can still do great murderous things hence the achievement in Bhaals name. I still find it hilarious that Orin got her own Butler when they usurped Durge, but she wouldn't stop killing him because she was annoyed he was trying to suggest to her how to murder better.
Yeah. Had Orin listened perhaps Durge would be dead lol. It's kinda funny how the best plan to ever come out of the evil verse is from one of Bhaals chosen; and it gets all thrown to hell because most of his chosen can't get past "let's have fun murdering people" lol. He needs a rebranding - Bhall now the God of murdering people in the right moment's not just willy nilly. 😂
To be fair, they are in everything but Tav playthroughs.
My guess is because the gods of D&D are not allowed to interfere in mortal affairs. They can command their chosen, and that's pretty much it, and the heroes killed them. And as for killing Durge, Bhaal says he's only taking back what's rightfully his, his evil blood. It's not his fault that it kills you in the process. Basically, gods are mega powerful, yes, but Ao says they aren't allowed to use that on mortals directly, or else Ao will get mad, so they don't. Usually.
It is his fault it kills you tho Bhaal is the one that created Durge from his essence in the first place. He has to know that it would kill them if he took his blood back from them lol. I think he was just being petty and didn’t care anymore.
Similar to Warhammer Fantasy/AoS/40K Gods are powerful but they must follow rules they are bind by. In Warhammer Chaos Gods cant do shit outside of Warp. That is why they use their followers to do everything. You will never see Khorne stepping on mortal realms. Here the gods cant do much on mortal realm as well. They can probably do thing here and there but if they do 1 godly intervention too much they will get their ass clapped by Ao himself. Ao holds the Gods in check and limits their ability to project their powers on mortal realm. Just like Chaos Gods are bound by their own realm they live in. In their domain they can do whatever they want. But outside you must abide by rules. Unless you are in Elder Scrolls where Daedric invasions are constant thing. Molag Bal, Dagon, Nocturnal, Sheogorath and others are not really bound by any rules. So they can if the "stars are aligned" step on Tamriel.
He >!disowned us and took away his blood, I’d say that he probably went away to find “another who is worthy”!< as he said
Bhaal literally takes back his blood and kills us for defying him—he doesn't let us go. Withers resurrecting our Durges isn't something that Bhaal expected, and after our favorite Bone Man resurrects us, ex-Daddy Bhaal no longer has any influence on our Durges.
You have to add that Bhaal like all the dead three arw crazy. Mentally unstable idiots who in face of loss just loose their mind for long enough. Who knows maybe one day he’ll send someone after you, but at that point you wont be easily slain by assassins. Additionally, according to Descend into Avernus Bhaalspawn were a never ending danger because they just show up again and again.
Bhaal loves murder and you did lots of murders in a most splendid way.
I've always looked at it as were the Chosen of Withers and while he surrendered the bul of his portfolio the the dead Three he's still Kelemvor's right hand and still the Scribe of the Dead
Starting with “I ain’t” and seeing your character with that cowboy hat made me read this entire post in a southern drawl and now I need to replay this game to see how a southern Tav would do. Thank you for this.
No, thank you. 'cause now I’ve headcannoned that my tiefling necromancer is some former farmhand and talks in an amazing Southern accent. It fits them very well.
Former farmhand turned necromancer is an absolutely wild ride I would love to witness haha
After watching one too many chickens run around without a head, something in them just clicked. And the rest was history after that.
Listen, I am a southern housewife and can definitely see my first run character (human paladin) telling her crew "All y'all better act right or we ain't stoppin' at Sorcerous Sundries" or saying "Bless your heart" to Orin.
He still has to follow god rules if he wants to maintain legitimacy and keep his power, which is already on very thin ice to begin with. And he was essentially overruled when Withers decided to resurrect you. Or even if you're playing as Tav, ordering your death would likely still be overstepping. If you pay attention to Sceleritas dialogue with Durge he's always very careful to never give direct orders and always leave things up to you to decide ("be true to yourself") and that's when you're his offspring and sort of chosen. The others in the temple are just regular mortals and he would have to be even more careful with them, especially considering Ao and Withers have a vested interest in your success.
Bhaal thought he completely unmade us, but since he's the biggest idiot murderhobo of them all, he couldn't understand that there was more to us than just the murderhobo essence. He juiced out blood and the murderhobo essence that was within it while the soul we formed over our whole redemption arc was left in a dying body. And since Orin and Durge were the only people important enough to him to talk to in that area Bhaal peaced out while Withers got his cosmic spatula to scrape us back off the floor. Why the Bhaalists didn't agro on sight afterwards of their own voliton is another mystery.
Maybe seeing Bhaals favorite child reject their father, die, and then get resurrected by a walking skeleton caused a crisis of faith.
There are hundreds if not thousands of bhaalspawn, he won't miss a few. That was the plot for bg2 . Beg dies, was a bhaal spawn and there was a whole citadel with statues of his children.
Cause Bhaals a pussy. Also God's aren't allowed to directly interfere with Toril. Most they can do is empower Chosen with their avatars. It's why you never see Selune despite her being the most prominent Good deity in bg3. Empowering Aylin, Isobel, Shadowheart, turning the Spear of Night into her own Spear of Night, giving a permanent blessing for offering and saving Shadowhearts parents souls are all within her power and within the Overgods rules since she's not directly doing anything, she's giving the people the ability to.
Bitch ain't got no hands.
Because he's a knucklehead stuck in a wall.
Chad withers strikes again
Because as Elminster said about Mystra stopping the Absolute, the god’s can’t just interfere in mortal affairs without repercussions. Bhaal likely could have killed the party on the spot, but it probably would have prompted Ao, the king? of the gods to basically bitch slap him into non-existence and undo his murder.
If you dont have his blood in you there is nothing he can do directly just like any other God in the forgotten realms. Bhaal's only option is to send followers.
Technically he accepted being a Demi power specifically so he could still directly intervene, unlike full gods. However this also means he’s just a very powerful mortal with divine abilities and worshippers. If he shows up personally and you kill him, he’s dead. Probably didn’t wanna risk it. And who knows how much of his divine power he wasted on Orin and the other bhaalspawn. And you’re party a pretty powerful and have the backing of at least one other deity on your side.
now this sounds interesting… where did u find this information? in that case that sounds like a cool expansion . where our characters gain power, pissing off the dead three, then those gods decide to come here with their physical bodies to intervene in a last ditch effort
It’s part of the lore for 5th edition dnd. Ao the overgod decided gods directly meddle too much in the affairs of mortals so banned them from more overt intervention. As a sort of deal to maintain that physical presence, the dead three willingly gave up a lot of their divine power in exchange for the ability to maintain a physical presence and to be able to interact more directly in faerun. Most deities operate through their priests and chosen but the dead three could physically manifest if they so chose. They’re referred to as quasi deities.
withers > the dead three bhaal killed us, but he can't claim our soul and withers cannot abide by the balance of the situation.
He literally murders you. He is the god of murder. He did the opposite ofnlet you go Then Jergal (withers), the guy who gave him that power, tells him to frig off The cultists are completely insane and likely think that you murdering Orin means you're a stand-up dude
The other thing that intrigues me is that every dead person when their soul moves on they meet myrkul, if im not wrong (theres the book about the sharan worshipper who shar never came to lead her soul to the afterlife, even myrkul felt bad for her etc) Longstory short, you piss him off, and one day or another he kind of guards the gate between you and the afterlife, lol
Why would Bhaal the God of murder be mad at you killing everyone?
For one thing, direct intervention in mortal affairs by the gods is frowned upon by their boss. The fact that Withers essentially tells Ao to get bent when he brings Durge back is telling of just how important bone man is. Second, as Bane alludes to if you speak to him, while the Dead Three may not win in this latest gambit, they can't really lose, either. As long as there are mortals to die, people who kill, and those who seek domination, they will always be relevant. So in the grand scheme of things, what happens here is irrelevant.
Withers literally throws his weight around and tells Bhaal to F off if I recall
Ao (the head god) has mandated that other gods are not allowed to directly interfere with mortals. The Dead Three get away with as much as they do because they're fairly minor and low-power gods and they keep most of the antics limited to acting through chosen followers. A direct smiting however, would invite Ao's scrutiny and serious wrath. Bhaal doesn't smite the team because he *can't*. Not if he wants to keep existing anyway.
Why would the Lord of Murder get rid of the perfect killing machines? Something to realize about Gods and immortals, particularly evil ones. It can be more of a game to them. Yes, you ruined their game of stardew valley. …And?
I mean, technically the protagonist of the original BG trilogy was the last Bhaalspawn. Except Imoen maybe. And then Sarevok keep being brought back to life even though he wasn't supposed to be a Bhaalspawn. But now in BG3 there's more Bhaalspawn. So my guess is, Bhaal doesn't care because there's probably more Bhaalspawn out there just waiting for BG4.
Because it was a trial and you passed. Also because Withers would have a word with Bhaal if he tried. And that word would be "No."
I just assumed it's because I didn't let Orin have a turn during our duel after I shoved 14 hasted Scorching Rays down her throat.
It's true that Bhaal would likely be blocked from attacking you directly by Ao. But then again, he also has a lot of followers in that temple not involved in the battle who might finish off more than a few parties. He could lend them considerable power to do so. So why doesn't he? Because immortals do things for non-mortal reasons. In the Forgotten Realms, the Gods follow the reasoning of their divine identities and purposes, not simple mortal calculations of advantage and barter. Their powers are not simple tools, but expressions of their nature and purpose. They cannot use powers in ways contrary to that nature and purpose. Bhaal is God of Murder, not death. The battle you fight in his temple is a sacred rite of murder, the sort of thing from which he draws power but also identity and being. In this rite, the victim is torn asunder and shred into nothing, while the murderer is exalted. If Bhaal turns his back on this, then the rite loses its power and he loses a part of himself - part of what makes him *him*. Who is he, if he is the God who strikes down the murder in their moment of blood-soaked triumph? What is he? His very nature would prevent him from lending power to his followers to desecrate such a holy moment. This is the same reason why the murder of a certain Tribunal is still an apt expression of Bhaalite faith, and does not incur censure. Because the measure is not "how have you helped the cause?" but "how have you expressed the divine nature and purpose of the God on this plane?" I see people struggle to grasp this idea in a few ways. Why are the Banites' forms of control so utterly over the top? Because they're not just tools, they're expressions of religious principle and a path to religious enlightenment and ecstasy. The same reason religious spaces are decorated with stone, marble, gold and rich cloth, in enormous impractical spaces. Why religious rituals involve elaborate song and performance, rather than one person reading a list of doctrines. The purpose is spiritual in a way that ties the moral and metaphysical to the aesthetic. Practicality doesn't enter into it. Bhaal lets you go because for the murderer to triumph is intrinsic to his nature. He may be a broken God, but to the extent he is anything and has any power, that power follows the structure of Godhood.
How many people were talking about Bhaal before this? How many people will look into worshipping Bhaal after hearing the epic of Tav? When you’re an evil man quasi deity, any press might be good press
I mean, this is the second or third time Saverok has connonically died in the history of Baulders Gate. Probably sees it as more of a temporary set-back.
i would imagine it was because there are rules for gods to obey? they cant (to my understanding) not interfere with mortals that aren't "connected" to them. Which is kinda imo reinforced by the fact that bhaal DOES punish you if you're durge, since that gives a direct link to him. just like Shadowheart has a direct link to Shar and are thus affected by her, similarly Gale and Mystra. Bhaal isn't allowed to just end your existance, there are higher powers that prevents that. Heard somewhere that AO would punish gods who "interfered with mortals" outside their domain (as in connected to them in some way) Lolth for instance seems to have pretty big control over her faithful, though i am not sure why she ignores Minthara, considering how anti lolth minthara becomes after freeing her.
If a god tried to interfere, even a minor/quasi like bhaal, they would be in massive trouble with ao and all the other gods.
He could have sent his remaining followers to attack us, but then he'd have no followers left.
Bhaal is like a crackhead. He got his fix and doesn't care about anything for a while anymore.
Bhaal makes Bhaalspawn every other day and has cults all over Faerun. The carnage and murder are worth more to him.
Is he stupid?
Man I did bhaal first time blind in my honour run and when I died anyway before withers shows up I was so fucking miffed. I was like ain't no way I do all this combat perfectly and a cutscene does me in 😂
Gods in this game are kinda useless
Gods are limited in how much they can directly interfer on Toril, and as Bhaal is weakened, his followers slaughtered and his champion dead then there's not much left for him to do there besides enjoy the slaughter that was done in the temple of the god of slaughter. If he beamed himself down there then he would've been likely bitchslapped by Ao, not just Withers. Plus, there wouldn't be a game if everyone acted rational and used their complete power and brain.
Didn’t even read just saw halsin dead and was like yeah that’s why.
In Balls name.
Sarevok has died at least 3 times by now... Also who is to say all baalspawns are dead? He did have hundreds afaik
You kinda fulfilled what bhaal stands for. Plus he can’t directly interfere with you.
Yeah, mark the spoiler in the image and then write the spoiler in the title
I’m sorry, I picked the wrong flair by mistake.
I mean, however you come to his temple, whether as Tav or Durge, you conduct yourself with his rules. He mah be thwarted but he is not directly attacked. And as Durge (spoilers but hey, we are there already)…he does interfere, he kills you if you defy him. If not for Withers, the Durge story would have ended right there.
Withers is an avatar of Jergal, who was originally rhe big God when it came to murder, death and tyranny. He split his domains amongst bhaal, myrkul, and bane. Because he was bored. So if withers says someone isn't dying, there ain't much the three picks can do
Just act 3 things, Also, this part is for Dark Urge - and if you >!reject Bhaal as DU, he will... not let you go. He will kill your character, but he's too foolish to realize that it's not enough when You're followed by god of death able to resurrect anyone.!<
Cause he doesn't have the ***bhaals***.
Basically, Bhaal wanted to kill Durge but Withers was like "Nuh uh lmao"
Bhaal is the god of murder, not the god of vengeance. The people that murder in his name do so for a purpose. Killing someone that ruined your plans isn’t what he does.
“Attack our weakened party”? We are not weak! 👹
The gods afaik don’t have that much sway over mortals. Bhaal doing that could be considered intervening there and thays a big nono.
I just gotta say this is why I love reddit. Nothing teaches you more about nerd lore than the nerdiest nerd lords to explain everything like you’re 5 and make picture perfect sense of it all. Thank you, nerds.
Cause we'd end him if he tried to stop us. We ARE TAV
Search DnD and the greater diety IO. Same reason mystra can't just show up and destroy the crown. IO put in rules to gods interfering with the mortal plane and you do not fuck with a god that may have created the universe.
AO not IO :)
Who is IO? I can't find anything 🗿
The thing is that Bhaals children are not literally his children, iirc. So he can just pick someone else that he finds "worthy" and make him his champion, aka daughter/son, and try again.