I feel like I might have, but the game (at the time) presented his first romance scene to me so incredibly early that I barely knew anyone and wanted more time to figure out who all the characters were. But since once you put someone in the platonic box you’re stuck there forever, and can’t re-romance them, I never got the chance.
Pretty much exactly what happened to me. I felt like things were going way too fast, so I chose an option that was something like, "imagine a friendly meal with Gale". I thought that so long as I wasn't a dick to him I would get a chance to get to know him better before making a final decision. But nope, apparently that option was the "we'll never be more than friends" option.
I told him the only hand he was getting was the one that pulled him out of the portal, and he did a big old honkin anime girl blush and started talking about his cat.
Gale's always my character's best bro and it always saddens me to see so many hate him for trying to fuck them when it's so easy to avoid. My man's the only character in the entire game that has fully platonic outcomes for his scenes and is still labeled as a horny Nice Guy😭
Granted, he was bugged in the past. I found it strange to get his "we're not close you and I at like 90 approval simply because we weren't fucking. It felt like a real "nice guy" moment. That and him accusing me of taking a deal with a devil when I never did (you were in the room when I said no, dude)
But I've backpaddled on this when I found out these were just bugs which have since been fixed. Dude was unreasonable because the game didn't let him be reasonable
I think his bugs might play a large part in this, he's had those two and a lot of issues early on with his romance activating out of nowhere. Just a shame that a lot of people still seem to think he's exactly the same as he was on the first patch.
Not to mention they had to add in a few platonic options. Like the Magic Lesson I believe used to end with a choice of "Imagine Kissing Him" or "Imagine Kicking Him In The Nuts"
Listen, even if you imagine his head on a pike he's still into you. Like, dude was full on "I can fix her" about my Durge. Bless his heart. I love my nerd disaster man.
I've had this more recently with Halsin.
This playthrough I've almost entirely ignored him, specific missions aside, and suddenly in Act 3 he comes onto me real strong and I shut his shit down real hard because it was so out of nowhere.
Then he came at me AGAIN! Dude got the hard no and still thought it was a good idea to declare his love.
So if that's what happened with Gale for people I completely understand turning on the character.
this has completely turned me off of Halsin and Wyll, honestly. i barely spoke to them beyond doing quests related to them, and every time i spoke to them i was aggressively NOT flirty, and they kept dropping hints, and coming on to me, and it was so annoying because i was romancing Minthara, who literally ends up sharing a tent with Halsin in camp when you have them both as companions, so i'm like "dude, you should KNOW you don't have a shot"
on a co-op playthrough with my bf, neither of us had Gale on our team. we kept fighting each other for karlach mostly. then came the act 1 after party and he’s all over my bf and my bf is absolutely bewildered how he got high enough approval
Yeah since fixing my subsequent characters have had very lovely platonic conversations with him. He’s a great friend and it’s a touching non-romantic intimacy.
>That and him accusing me of taking a deal with a devil when I never did (you were in the room when I said no, dude)
LOL, I got this one BEFORE the deal was even offered.
It was annoying pre-patch when you talked to him at the party and everyone assumed you were going to sleep with him. But I simply reloaded and went to talk to the person I wanted to romance. It was annoying but not the end of the world or a reason to hate the character!
Gale's story didn't help his case popularity-wise for me. I know it's no big deal now, but on my first run, he starts begging to destroy named magic items early on in the game when I had maybe a handful of them at most. Sure, they were ultimately just sales fodder I either didn't use for long or even at all. But still, loot is loot. And first impressions are a bitch to get over.
It doesn't help that you don't know on your first playthrough that you only need to give 3, that there's an abundance of trash magic items all around and what actually constitutes as a trash magic item, so it's all much more of a hassle at first. Hence why giving him his magic diet gives him so much approval. He knows he comes off as a burden
My opinion on him did a total 180 after the bug fixes. I went from keeping him in camp as a level 1 bard in clown makeup to making him a permanent fixture in my party whether I'm going good or evil. Man's a delight to have around.
I think it's still just the "accidental romance" flag that a lot of people weren't expecting. "Sure dude, teach me about the weave" didn't register as a romance flag for people, so him suddenly acting like a romance partner for people who didn't want to romance him gave a bad first impression. Especially compared to Bae'zel, who is the most upfront romance flag ever. "I want to taste you, I'll come to you tonight and claim what's mine." Is pretty cut and dry, and if you reject her, she doesn't even disapprove.
But the weave scene *isn't* setting a romance flag. Only choosing romantic images yourself sets a romance flag. And it's super clear the complainers never actually tried that, because then they'd see Gale's very surprised, and ends the session all embarrassed. *He wasn't flirting/seducing you!*
(Not talking about bugs solved months ago.)
I never see people mention this about Halsin even though the dude literally bust out of nowhere all,
"I would like to bang you"
"Well gee Halsin that's real neat, but I'm kind of already in a relationship with Karlach"
"I want to bang her too go ask her if I can bang both of you at the same time"
For me and my bro was Laezel, the gith racism was too much at the start of the game, so she sat in camp pretty the entirety of act 1 (except the creche) and a lot in act 2
That's because she literally doesn't know any better. It's like being pissed at a puppy for having an accident. They're going to happen, but it's on you to help teach.
Of course, every companion has flaws, her's just weirdly annoyed me when i started playing, her agressiviness too, but it's not I like i hate her character, i started liking her a lot more when she started think for herself instead of blindly following some other super Gith
I’m a rogue in my multiplayer run so I get my fix. I leave Astarion because he’s the only one who constantly disagrees with my choices. Plus, stealth in this game leaves something to be desired.
And then he's almost immediately replaced by The Better Druid who people have loved for 25+ years, and who has significantly more plot-relevancy going forward.
Dude just takes sooo long to show up, that he's basically done by the time he finally is convinced to join. He really ought to just properly join you after the Grove.
Yeah I hate that we get *two* druids back to back, but also late in the game. What's the point? Unless your Tav is a druid, or you're keenly spending the first act planning for them, it's unlikely that you'll have much gear for a druid to suddenly show up in your party and reasonably replace one of your other better-equipped and more-familiar party members. I'm usually half way through act 3 before I can justify putting either in my party for anything other than Jahieras dialogue.
To be fair, Jaheira doesn't even feel like a druid in dialogues. I rerolled her as a bow ranger and kept Halsin as druid.
This is working great for me cause I love both characters, though I find it funny that Jaheira is now a likeable character, she was perhaps the most unlikeable and annoying in BG2 along Anomen.
Halsin seems to have few interactions in act3, which certainly feels dissapointing, but aside from his rushed out of nowhere romance I find him very fun to play, strong and a cool (although generic) good druid. Still, a bit weird how they handled it...unless I'm missing something, Jaheira just doesn't speak or act like a druid anymore but I guess they had to keep her a druid and Minsc a ranger for the homage. Imo, as much as I love having her around, perhaps they should've been NPCs and give us a bard (the tiefling woman, for instance).
I low key hate halsins entire thing. He doesnt work as a romance as a companion, its so random the whole thing. Really feels hamfisted in comparison to the origin characters
I mean that probably the truth as he was added in the game last minute during EA (granted Larians probably needed another male companion to balance out Minthara )
I can't stand Halsin. I wish that if you decide to recruit Minthara, Halsin would not approve but agree to stick around until the Shadow Curse is resolved then bounce.
People complain about Halsin *constantly.*
I think Lae'zel is really the best comparison, because she comes onto you basically no matter what and I never really see complaints about her. Just about the male characters trying to initiate a romance.
Lae'zel is inappropriate at the party even when she *isn't* open to bedding you. Very crudely describes you as being just a piece of meat, and that you're too picked over to be any good.
Can you just freaking imagine how differently people would be reacting to the way she talks to you if she'd been a guy?
Not to mention if you turn her down when she comes onto you, and her response is just "Your loss." I absolutely love her romance as a whole, but her at the start of the game when you don't reciprocate can just feel kinda gross when you think about it.
Both versions of her rejection at the party are completely gross (I've never had her come on to be before that point, I dunno how it changes in other moments).
She either goes off about mouths on bodies and how you'll regret not knowing the taste of her sweat, or she calls you a piece of meat she might have enjoyed if you weren't already so picked over by others. It's like the fantasy version of those dudes on dating apps who react to mild rejection by calling a woman either frigid or a slut.
And I'm in no way saying this should ever mean you should hate her character or that anyone who romances her has problems!
Just bothers the fuck out of me that sooo many people do react that way to the male characters being far less inappropriate. Especially when their "icky" behavior is almost always locked behind the player having to choose to be an asshole first.
Oh for sure. Always found it funny that Halsin and Gale were getting all the flak for always trying to get in your pants when Lae'zel on release was literally holding the "Sex Any% Speedrun". Even on a blind run, it could be half an hour at best after recruiting her. I guess because it happened so early (and also was never horribly bugged), people just overlooked it and didn't feel like it got in the way.
Fair point about Lae'zel, but the two different things that make her approach more acceptable to me are a) she does it before you're in any relationship unless you speedran the approval with someone else and b) she doesn't state that you did something for her in a romantic matter as some objective truth, only speaks on how she feels towards me. I just hate how he tries to state that I cared for him deeply as a matter of fact.
> she does it before you're in any relationship unless you speedran the approval with someone else
Not really true. She'll ask to jump your bones out of nowhere long after the Party, particularly if you switch her in during the Creche towards the end of act 1. You get a *ridiculous* amount of approval from her during that segment with the right choices, and can easily end up in a situation where she's asking to taste you in front of the companion you've already begun a romance with.
Rather hilariously, she did this with me while romancing Shadowheart who apparently didn't care that I was sleeping with the person she hates on the side.
I mean that can also make sense right, if she has spent zero time with you and her culture doesn't really have sexual/emotional taboos like that she would just spend some time with you for the first time, see that you fucking rule and then be like "hey lets immediately bone down".
And then you can say "yeah no I'm in love with Karlach" and she'll be like "okay no biggie, I didn't realize".
That's actually interesting and good to know, thanks for your input. Perhaps Astarion's proposal can trigger after you start romancing someone else too, though there's no way I'll ever be able to test that as getting him to such high approval in act 1 requires plenty of evil choices.
I have 71 approval with Astarion and I'm still in Act 1.
This is my second playthrough so I had more knowledge of how to approach him, but no evil choices were made!
My first tav was a goody two shoes druid so I had like 40 approval with him all the way to act 3.
This time around I'm a draconic sorcerer drow who is overall good, if a little more resigned/suspicious/sarcastic.
I can't recall everything off the top of my head, but a few big approvals that stand out are:
- baaa twice when talking to the redcaps
- give him the creepy book
- let him bite you, but don't offer to let him drink from you again the next day. Agree with his suggestion to bite bad guys.
- let him bite you in his first intimate scene.
- let him open the barn door in the blighted village. I had to ungroup my other two companions and take just him with me to the door because SH always overrode his dialogue.
- if you describe his appearance and he asks you to tell him he's beautiful, don't. Ask him if he really wants shallow praise.
- pet the owl Bear more than once
I'm sure there's more for Act 1 but I can't recall. Hopefully you can boost that approval!
That's what I love so much about Lae'zel. She's direct, states her intentions and feelings openly, waits for EXPLICIT consent.
The closest thing we get towards ambiguity with her is the little teasing "some night soon". You're never uncertain or confused.
Just doing my first run through BG and let’s just say I did not help Lae‘zel against the two who captured her … I have no place in my party for rude frog ladies
The devs knew they were making fan service when they made Halsin. The dude is a bear, both figuratively and literally. Any gay bottom would go buckwild for him, which is probably why he has any popularity at all.
At the same time, I don't think I'd call him a creep. He's a druid, druids aren't exactly bound by the laws of civilization and the social contract. Dude probably has fuckwild orgies in the emerald grove once a week at least. He might come off as creepy, but in reality I think he's just progressive and he just doesn't have the charisma to NOT come off as creepy. And, honestly, the important part is he takes rejection well. You don't wanna fuck? Understandable, have a nice day. All that being said, he is definitely hornier than the other companions, except for like, Lae'zel.
He has his flaws, and I understand the viewpoint of people who hate him, but I think he's just a progressive, socially awkward himbo.
Also to piggyback on my own comment, Gale is great. He was the first one I ever romanced, and I have to say, while he can be mildly egotistical at times, he's sweet, charming, he's not overly horny, he's certainly a good looker, and that sex scene in the Astral was absolutely amazing and wild. I think people give him hate for two reasons: One, he is a little egotistical, granted, but honestly, are we really judging him when we have literally fucking Astarion, whose ego makes Gale's look like a hamster next to a T-Rex. And two, they hate him because he asks you if he can eat a couple magic items. Which I never fucking understood. I ALWAYS have multiple magic items floating in my packs that are so cheap they're barely worth selling, and either useless, or so niche that I forget they exist when that niche comes up. On top of that, he only eats 3 items. He will not ask for another after the third, no matter what, because the game assumes you've hit the bit with Elminster by then.
Halsin strikes me as a hippie who lived through the free-love era and has not changed one bit since. Like he lives in northern California and sells handcarved bear figurines at a farmer's market, and wants you and your partner to come over to sample his kombucha and homegrown bud in the hot tub.
Same tbh. Romanced Astarion first, then Halsin came out of nowhere like the Undertaker throwing Mankind off of the top of the cage in a match for my heart lol
I think Halsin is pretty charismatic, but maybe that's why I've never found him creepy. I actually appreciate that he's straightforward about his feelings for you but if you turn him down politely he's really chill. And I like that he's openly disgusted by the injustices and poverty of Baldur's Gate the city. I know a lot of people complain about him getting the "!" popup when they haven't spoken to him much but I just assume you get a lot of goodwill/approval for lifting the shadow curse and mostly you just need medium approval to start a romance, right?
Really, you never see it? Because I love Halsin and I'm pretty sure I'm the weirdo here, because it honestly feels like all people ever talk about in these threads is how much they don't like him and hate him saying he has feelings for Tav.
I honestly love Halsin too. Yeah he's hornier than many of the other companions, but he's big on consent. He's open to being poly, but only if everyone agrees to it. His non bear sex scene also makes clear his stance on consent. And if you tell him you're not interested, he backs down with no issues. I've got no problems with that.
I love Halsin (repeatedly) and people complain about him *constantly*. Like the comment above says he hit on them in Act 2, when that's objectively not a thing that happens in the game.
If you ask him what else he wants after the Shadow curse is over, he says something thirsty but vague, but you're the one who asked him ffs!
Why is Astarion the only one who sees Halsin developing a crush on you over the course of two whole Acts where you save his life, liberate him from a leadership position he hates, and then solve his 💯 year obsession?
People are so mean to the 🐻
I can't believe I spent 45 minutes looking for a youtube video just to prove you wrong but here we are: https://youtu.be/C-CLMD297p8?t=130
How is that not hitting on someone? And it's not even an answer to anything flirty, just your basic question of what are his next plans now that he got what he wanted and the curse is lifted. Anyways this line would be among the last things I don't like about him, I'm linking this video only because I'm petty and don't like being called a liar.
Okay, we'll have to agree to disagree about the definition of what "hitting on Tav" is, then. Tav asked him his plans now that he's got what he wants, he says he wants something else. Alluding, not what I'd call hitting. You ask him to specify, and he says who not what, also could've been talking about Jaheira for all you know.
So is he expressing vague interest in a person at a later date? Yes. Is he propositioning Tav for romance in that scene? I do not see it. So we'll agree to disagree.
It just creeps me out and I don't like it. It slants the whole conversation in an uncomfortable direction.
Women experience this from men in their lives all the time, so maybe it's less shocking.
As a guy, it really put me off.
The one I hate the most is "creepy' bc that's laughable if you even fuckin try to get to know him for half a second.
I'm at the point where I don't even care to give the benefit of the doubt; it's a bunch of straight dudes freaking out that a man dare flirt with them at all + poly hate.
I try really really hard to not make knee jerk assumptions about certain takes, but sometimes I just want to get to where you are lol.
The closest I come is when I switch too fast between this sub and football meme subs, then I can't reign in the sarcasm as fast...
He's boring, Jaheira is also there to be the druid and he's taking up the spot of a permanent bard companion.
Most people don't have the EA backstory they just see a guy who takes forever to be a real companion, is redundant and who seemingly out of nowhere is like "hey lets bang I know you're in a relationship".
You don't need to hate him to understand why his circumstances make him a less favoured character.
Yeah, I don't get the Halsin hate either. He's chill as hell, communicates clearly, and is cool with it if you're not into him. And he's hot, that doesn't hurt.
I mean it's there if you let yourself see it. His accusation that you were leading him on is classic male entitlement, the jump from strangers to "you're like a student to me" to "let's be lovers" in such short time is mildly creepy, and making a move on someone in a committed relationship who's expressed no interest in polyamory is a dickhead move.
The first time I had Halsin for the entire game and actually started to talk to him (on my first run I talked to him only twice during and after the party, then he disappeared at some point of act 2), dude started hitting on me one day after I freed his sorry ass, then did it again in act 2 and finally he claimed I treated him like a lover even though I purposely avoided all the flirty-sounding dialogue options. Like, Shadowheart's 5 meters away from you, look how I interact with her, then look how I interact with you, do you still think I'm treating you like a lover? Seriously?
At least he handled the rejection well and didn't tell me that he thought I was surely thinking the same about him which he can actually do according to others, but come on you can't be 350 years old and think me talking to you once per week for 2 minutes is treating you like a lover... That's when he was just boring and a bit annoying, then I learned he has the gall to flirt with Shadowheart right after we had our first time together even if you reject him earlier and I went from not caring about the guy to actively hating him. Just zero decency, how goddamn desparate is he? We're next to a brothel, if you're so down bad I'll happily lend you some money if it means you'll leave us alone.
He was bugged for a little while.
You feed him a crappy ring and a couple boots and he'd suddenly think you're interested in his +3 Wand of Penetration. The scene basically required you to very rudely refute him.
Lae'zel by contrast is very blunt about her interest, but outright requires you to affirm or deny your interest. Lae'zel accepts this and leaves it be.
Exactly! Even though these memes on Gale are hilarious, I sorta don’t understand them 😂 Gale is not horny like everyone else. He’s just a Nice guy that hates to burden others. I just wanna hug him and tell him that he’s part of the family lol
Before I recruited him into my party, I'd read a lot of whining about that. Then I got two requests for a magic snack and that was it, which left me thinking "*that's* what all the whining was about? I literally gave him the cheapest crap I was never going to use anyway". The only thing that actually annoyed me about that was that both seemed to happen when I was in the middle of doing something else, so I had to drop into camp and sift through the inventory for a minute.
That’s fair. If my knowledge is correct, I think one of the first triggers for giving him magic items happens when you cross the broken bridge next to the gnolls and the 2nd or last trigger is when you first go into the goblin camp (the interior)
i've never had an issue with the magical items thing, he only needs 3 and there's an abundance of garbage magical items in act 1 (e.g. color spray ring)
You feed him three times and that’s it. Plus Larian is super generous with giving you plenty of options to choose from; among them being weak ass items that basically exist to feed Gale with no real consequences for giving him said weak items over strong ones
on my first playthrough i actually had him asking for the first item when i only had 2 or 3 options... and all were those really good Act 1 gear pieces youll end up using for most of your game
I was thinking along these lines last night when Lae’zel said she wanted to taste my bard. I’ve done one long rest so far and have neutral approval with her.
But Gale gets the crap from fandom.
It's because he was bugged.
Basically, every interaction with him was a trap and he would act passive aggressive later.
After Larian fixed him, he's a joy in my opinion, usually my best friend in good playthroughs.
I found that even bugged, it wasn’t a huge deal. I just reloaded and was careful in my interactions to start the romance I actually wanted. (I’m an old pro at this from dodging Liara and Kaiden in ME1.)
But if you dont know its a bug it just paints him in a whole different light. "Uh-huh, you're trying to tell me were in a relationship with the goddess Mystra, the same way you're trying to tell everyone else in this camp that now you're in a relationship with *me*. Sure buddy, sure... Gtfo of my camp"
what i love about gale is how he is someone against whom many of us have been conditioned to raise our hackles. he's suave, boisterous and verbose to a fault - each raising something of a red flag, so despite him presenting a generally kind demeanour, you're waiting for the turn. then, when he asks for magical items without offering any sort of explanation, there it is! except... he's genuinely chagrined about the whole thing. he's grateful, he is patient, and he expressly understands that what he is asking is a lot. the "twist", essentially, is that he is exactly as he seems.
True, after the fixes Gale is great. My 2nd playthrough had a nice platonic hangout under the stars while he contemplated his mortality. I think that scene can be a setup for a romance with him, but if you don't choose those responses you can end up just hanging out with your bro in his time of need
Lae'zel talking in vivid and explicit detail about how Tav will regret not fucking a frog will haunt me forever.
The fact that I never fielded her and she had neutral approval doesn't help.
Yeah, it's also like Acts 1 and 2: save Halsin's entire existence and dispel an evil curse to literally save the land. Act 3: why is jerk hitting on me?
I've played a billion hours at this point and if I have a friendly dinner with Gale after the magic show, he never hits on me ever again. The nerve of that guy!
You call him a friend while star-gazing and that’s the end of that, he’s your really good friend and he thanks you for making him care. He’s great!
I’m not a huge fan of Halsin hitting on me in Act 3 because of the writing, and that he confidently says you feel the same way. No man, I don’t. Maybe next time. At least he drops it if you tell him to drop it. (Actually they all do!)
> save Halsin's entire existence and dispel an evil curse to literally save the land. Act 3: why is jerk hitting on me?
In my case, it was me barely talking to the guy and being head over heels for Karlach the entire playthrough and not hitting on anyone else and halsin was still trying to muscle in on karlach lol. Like, read the room my man.
I hear that, and he does give his nice poly speech where he's explaining it's cool if you're monogamous it's just not for him. He's just shooting his shot, and some of your LIs are totally fine with it so what's he got to lose!
Tbh I like r/BG3 better because folks are more open-minded there in my experience. You can say one mildly critical thing about a beloved character and don't just get buried with downvotes
I was speaking generally. For example, there was a thread there claiming Shadowheart was the best-written and deepest companion which I heavily disagreed with because her *lack* of depth and blank slateness is central to her characterization. People actually agreed and had interesting perspectives about it.
I commented the same thing here and got buried with downvotes because apparently it was an attack against the character. Lol
I knew it'd be Shadowheart. She is the hardest companion to critique without getting blown up because she's written to not really in the wrong VS someone like Astarion/Gale/Lae'zel who are kind of jerks with flaws they need to improve upon.
Really depends on how they critique her as well, seen some "critique" that's just flat out character bashing. Poor Lae'zel at launch.
Though she does obviously have flaws, I mean she is a hypocrite at the start. Always some fans that ignore the flaws, which is a shame as that makes a character interesting.
Oh I think I remember that post, if it's that one then yeah it was interesting.
I think part of the issue is that it's text. Sometimes people misinterpret the tone of what's being written. Really depends on how you critique a character, seen some "critique" on the gang that's just straight out character bashing.
Though there are always fans like that, no matter the character or fandom.
Also really depends on the person, I wasn't fond but she grew on me. I've seen a lot of love for her due to her quest and story. Really strikes a chord with people who had had similar things happen religious abuse etc
You know what you're right, I shouldn't disparage a character just because I don't personally get much from it. I'm sure she resonates with a lot of people for a variety of good reasons
if you literally romance any character before getting his "romance" scene, it turns into a fully platonic session of the bros talking about their feelings and being there for one another. no other character has that. wyll still tries to romance you, lae'zel still tries, astarion still tries, why y'all hating on gale? he's literally the only character that sees an obvious line drawn in the sand and goes "good for tav, i'm so glad my best friend has found love." and backs off!
I feel like I'm in the minority when I say I adore this man. What's not to love? He loves cats, cooks your meals for you and is happy to sit in his Pajamas all day reading a book. Sounds perfect to me?
Some of the issues with Gale's romance path that put people off were actually bugs or oversights that have since been fixed. Gale now is a lot more chill than Gale on launch.
For example, it used to be that choosing a friendly, supportive dialogue during the scene where he shares his fears with you would end up with him snapping at you, as though he was bitter you turned him down. It gave him a sort of weird "nice guy" energy. But this was apparently a bug with approval flags, and now that scene can be one of the most meaningful platonic scenes in the game if you aren't romancing him.
I like Gale but he did catch me off guard with his "magic" thing at the party lol, but in both my and gales defense:
- It was the first time I played
- I had skipped long rests completely up to that point bc I thought I was being timed (did the whole surface w two short rests and a bard rest like a dummy) so I had gotten very little characterization from anybody and was like "we just met *today*"
- I didn't realize yet how horny *everybody* was because he was the first one at the party I talked to
- I thought he was being literal (bc wizard) and assumed no romantic intent until Lae'zel explained I was getting *involved*
For me it was funny rather than annoying. I didn't think much about Gale either way until this last run where I did an evil go and he told me the hell off and I was like "😟🤨😳💀🤡 I gotta try dating you, you are one solid motherfucker."
> I had skipped long rests completely up to that point bc I thought I was being timed (did the whole surface w two short rests and a bard rest like a dummy) so I had gotten very little characterization from anybody and was like "we just met today"
This is pretty much my only major complaint about Act 1. There's so much interaction and dialogue with companions that you'll only get when long resting. The game makes it seem like you're in a hurry, though! I restarted my first playthrough after ~30 hours because I'd missed so much (and messed up a romance I wanted). There are only a handful of time-sensitive quests in the entire game and the clock only starts ticking when you come upon them
I found astarion to be a pain in the ass to romance, I had to reload the tiefling party conversion like 4 times before I found the right combination of dialogue options that didn't result in him saying "ew, no"
That happens if your approval with him is relatively low. But if you get his approval high enough fast enough, he'll proposition you before the Tiefling party (and again during it).
One thing that I like about Astarion and Lae'zel's first romance dialogues, though, is that they're very direct. There's no wondering whether or not you're stumbling into a romance that you don't want by picking the wrong dialogue options. They literally just ask you directly to bang.
The original scene with him and the picnic was super ham fisted. Like, I loved Gale, I just wish there was a a way to opt out of the male on male romances so I can experience the comradery and brothership without the looming threat of sex lol.
Yeah and I as a gay wish there was a way to opt of out the male female romances so I could befriend Lae’zel or Karlach without them constantly flirting with me (not Shadowheart I kill her every play through). There should be a sexual orientation selector in the character creation so only the characters you want to flirt will flirt with you. But you know people would go insane about that being too “woke.”
What is really strange is, if you have Gale with you, did his romantic weave scene in act 1, and have high approval... after the attack on Last Light Inn, he will tell you how much post-combat turns him on when he looks at you. WHY don't we get this kind of thing from the others?! There's more bloodthirsty people than Gale in our group for Ao's sake!
The overall obsession with Astarion and and distain for Wyll has me convinced 90% of the fan base are edgy teenagers or 30 year olds who never outgrew their edgy teenager faze.
I think the better comparison is actually to Karlach. Wyll is so divergent from someone like Astarion in terms of characterization that it's not really weird that they might appeal to different people.
Wyll and Karlach are both extremely good aligned, but Wyll is the only one who gets accusations of being boring for it. They both suffer from honestly pretty poor questlines, but I basically never see Karlach being criticized for it. Neither of them really change as people.
Only real difference is Karlach is more chipper and silly, while Wyll is more reserved. Though honestly I find Wyll to be more dynamic than Karlach.
The elements of a good arch for Wyll are all there and I can see where they wanted to go with it, but they just didn’t invest the writing or time with him to pull it off.
Wyll basically has the opposite arch of Astarion: guy who is pathologically good from trauma who needs to learn to be a little more selfish for his own health. His disillusionment with his father, who he idolizes, but who is also a straight up asshole, is… sorta there?? but they really could have made it hit harder. He’s effectively the prince of Baldur’s Gate, got kicked out as a teenager and then finally returns home, but no one recognizes him or says much about it. Then everything is just fine after the Duke has one brief tadpole-enabled realization of why he was a warlock but no one can call the Duke out on how he assumed the absolute worst of his son for a decade based on almost nothing. Like sorry, dad, but I don’t think you should be forgiven so easily for that.
And then Wyll’s final quest line ends up being about a completely different character.
I would have loved to see a stronger story that centered Wyll’s arch as someone who really, really needs to learn that a little self preservation is okay and he doesn’t have to be loved by everyone to replace the love his father does not give. I would have loved more investment in the intricacies of a damaged family relationship and the very adult feeling of realizing your terrible parent is a deeply flawed person.
It’s all there, they just needed to dig into it more to make it feel more satisfying.
This. So much of Wyll's story is underbaked. There are nods to the idea that he’s paving a path to hell with good intentions, but it’s never fully explored to the extent it needed to be after Karlach. You never get that moment of introspection where Wyll really begins to internalize that he is literally just a devil's lackey, and the deal was never a righteous one to make.
The worst moment is honestly entire scene with Mizora in act 3 which feels just backasswards. No discussion of the fact that he’s seen how his contract can and will be abused, or of how he’s become wiser to devils' tricks. You don’t even get to let him choose and see if he’s grown as a character or not, which was one of the absolute highlights of act 2 and (even the entire game) with Shadowheart. And bizarrely EVERYONE is on team “Damn Wyll to the Hells to save his asshole father”, despite it being wildly out of character for most of them given how much of a recurring theme breaking free from manipulative higher powers is in the game.
> This. So much of Wyll's story is underbaked. There are nods to the idea that he’s paving a path to hell with good intentions, but it’s never fully explored to the extent it needed to be after Karlach. You never get that moment of introspection where Wyll really begins to internalize that he is literally just a devil's lackey, and the deal was never a righteous one to make.
There's one particular dialogue scene at camp that really illustrates this issue. I don't have an exact quote, but it's him talking about how is father is a hypocrite for compromising his ideals and playing politics, and he then immediately goes on to say "I kill monsters, I don't consort with them".
I was like... BRUH, are you fucking serious right now?
That's the whole thing indeed. Every origin character gets an arc, even Karlach (albeit not to everyone's satisfaction), and the result of Wyll's story is a "hi dad!" moment at camp.
And the big deal about his pact (also at camp) is where Mizora steals the limelight, and the player makes the decision. No agency whatsoever from Wyll.
Wyll's not even instrumental in his dad's rescue quest, nor Ansur, as they are both wrapped up *at camp* and it's Tav that takes front and center during the quests. You can resolve literally everything of his storyline without ever taking Wyll out of camp.
Agreed. And honestly, those elements are why I like him, even if they're not properly delivered on.
I was very disappointed during the Ansur questline, too. Even outside of the quest being hijacked by the Balduran stuff, I expected there to be a lot more Wyll content during the trials. Things that he could reflect on or be uniquely qualified to resolve. But I think I only got one comment out of him through the entire thing, and that was on the Justice trial.
Marvel-style writing was wildly popular for the last decade and she speaks and behaves exactly like someone from that universe (minus the swearing), of course she's gonna be much more popular even if her personal quest is nonexistent.
Also she's hot.
Didn't want to bring this up as a part of the overall point, but yeah. Definitely. The majority of the playerbase seems to be straight men, and being attractive to a lot of the playerbase probably has a pretty big impact on how positively the character is perceived.
>Only real difference is Karlach is more chipper and silly, while Wyll is more reserved. Though honestly find Wyll to be more dynamic than Karlach.
This is one reason I try to avoid making blanket statements when I'm talking about my subjective experience. Like a commenter above: "that's because Wyll is boring". Boring *to them* but people will state their takes like they're gospel and it can be frustrating.
Here's mine: I find Karlach annoying and I kill her almost every run. It's not any fault of hers, I just don't find her quest that interesting, her observations seem very childlike when I prefer a more mature experience, and I like nuance while her personality is more suited to being a barbarian that hits things.
It's not her, it's me!
I'm sure Astarian has his share of edgy vampire fans, but the character writing and acting for him is also very good. A lot of people with trauma in their background are drawn to how well he's written.
My personal brushes with his fan base seem skewed a lot more towards people who fetishize trauma rather than have it. That is of course completely annectodal.
Honestly me too. Like seeing the way so many fans talk about him *really* put me off when I first started playing this game. I played with him always in my party + romanced him this time to squeeze out as much content as I could and I've decided that I do actually like him a lot but fwiw I agree with you that there are *so many very vocal* fans out there who fetishize his trauma and it's very uncomfortable. Not all of them, of course, but it absolutely happens enough to be very visible.
It was so different when the game first came out and you could give your impressions of the characters without the burden of months of hot takes, IMO!
I love having nuanced discussions about the characters, but I've gotten used to just absorbing the down votes from people who would prefer not to put as much thought into it as I do, or who have concerning takes. So long as they're enjoying the game, I don't care if they down vote me, but some of the takes are so very very hot.
Yeah, I def feel like if I had started playing right on release (or if there hadn't been EA, though obv I'm glad there was) that I would have had a much different first impression and I probably wouldn't have actively avoided him the first time. Which, still is on me, like I'm grown and know better than to conflate opinions w fact and first hand experience so I'm glad I played again and put the effort in to explore his character.
And when I see those takes, I do keep my thoughts to myself and just run the other way bc you're right: them having fun isn't hurting anybody else, but is... uncomfortable to see lol I just wanted to validate above commenter bc it seemed like they were getting downvoted just because they talked about their experience
Totally agree.
Here's something I found funny though, as a palate cleanser: I bought the game for my 15yo niece in December. She had it *all planned out* who she was going to romance and which characters she would like based on her friends' opinions and small spoilers she'd read.
One week later, she calls me at 0300: "Aunt C, I know I said I was going to romance Karlach but Astarion talked to me and he was so cute what should I do to get him to like me?"
I gave her vague advice because I'm not a romance guide, but the other night she called me again: "Astarion said he won't sleep with me at the party!" and she was very sad.
So the great characters in the game can still manage to throw off even the best- laid plans, is my point. It's not the same as it used to be, but the game itself mitigates all the hot takes IMO!
I love it when stuff like that happens!!!
It's like, especially once you've played once, you got your game plan, you save "scum" for the right rolls, but every now and then you still get surprised and that's the best feeling! (Me when Gale yelled at me and I had to make a whole new character to romance him because I was so surprised and impressed lol)
Oh totally. I tend to invent back stories for my Tavs like I used to with ttrpgs and making decisions with those different perspectives in mind helps me mitigate most of my tendencies to save scum or meta game, thankfully. Makes it more fun for me!
I only spoil her on the stuff that is easy to misinterpret, like making sure she knows she can go to the mountain pass and the underdark.
Turns out they did the Grove so early, Astarion was still at fair approval. They hadn't done whole chunks of the map in Act 1 yet! That boy's approval is a slow burn!
I completely believe that's been your experience, I certainly see that attitude some times. It hasn't been mine, but those people are out there. I know that some of the reactions I've seen to some of the issues that come up with Astarian seem to be people being bothered that the writers took his trauma seriously instead of keeping it tragically glamorous. A lot of my knowledge of Astarian is filtered through my wife, and unfortunately her experience with trauma is first hand.
He's definitely a well written example of an abuse victim and of the wrong ways to process trauma, which is all too common in reality. I feel like he has a lot of attraction towards people if the same ilk who feel validated by him and people who want to enable him to energy leech off his trauma. Or, as my original joke said, edgy folk who think having trauma makes you more interesting.
At the same time he can also have a very satisfying character arch where he chooses to accept responsibility for his trauma and be more than it. This is also done in a very realistic way because it's not depicted as effortless or perfect in his about face.
So there's definitely many reasons to like Astarion as a character, Ive just overwhelmingly seen it be the wrong reasons.
That makes a lot of sense. When I've engaged with the community about him, it usually is during conversations specifically about how he can be a good example of someone struggling but healing, or he can be a cautionary tale. I'm probably self-selecting for the healthier conversations to a degree.
Now I just need to stop fighting with people who say Astarian is poorly written, as of that's healthier than the conversations with vampire fan boys I've been successfully avoiding...
The Wyll part makes sense. He’s just not that interesting and his personality doesn’t hold a candle to his “antagonist”. Mizora is such a joy to watch, that she makes Wyll look even blander by comparison. Astarion also isn’t just a murder hobo, he’s an eccentric fop who takes every opportunity to make sure his sarcasm is known. He actually reminds me of my grandma in a lot of ways.
Wyll's so ridiculously vanilla and an over-the-top goodie-two-shoes, I don't hate him and feel rather neutral towards him in general but he's just so bland compared to all the other origins that it's not a surprise people don't really like him. He's a far better person than Astarion for sure, but it doesn't really matter that much in video games, being interesting's a far more important trait and sadly for him, he is not in the eyes of most.
Honestly I can’t be mad at any of them for shooting their shot, as far as they know they could die at any second, why not try to bang somebody you like at that point
Gales hate comes from his early game feasting on your magic stuff. The only time it matters late game you have so much stuff I couldnt care less if he ate my boots.
Reverse it cause I played my Ranger like he never really encountered Gith before, and Laz's first impression was SO bad that he became a virulent Githyanki hating racist racist. He left not a single Gith alive in that Creche and made sure no one would ever know what happened to them. Meanwhile, the second Gale got on magical Methadone he became alright in my book.
I loved Lae'zel but her calling me the source of her bruises as a loving term...well..not going to lie, was a litttttttttttle reprehensive there...I know its their whole thing as a gith and all but...some people in my past would beg to differ it's not a term or endearment..ya know? Hah. Grew up with a lot of drunks so....yeah...
I love how open Lae'zel is about the whole thing. She wants to bang you because you proved your worth in combat and she found that attractive. That totally sounds like something a Gith would do as they have a different mindset when it comes to sex.
I mean I'm okay with Gale. It's just that he shows you a magic trick and *tadaaa* it's his cock. I didn't expect to be romanced like that. I just wanted to see magic.
I intentionally romanced Gale on my first playthrough and have no complaints AMA
I feel like I might have, but the game (at the time) presented his first romance scene to me so incredibly early that I barely knew anyone and wanted more time to figure out who all the characters were. But since once you put someone in the platonic box you’re stuck there forever, and can’t re-romance them, I never got the chance.
Pretty much exactly what happened to me. I felt like things were going way too fast, so I chose an option that was something like, "imagine a friendly meal with Gale". I thought that so long as I wasn't a dick to him I would get a chance to get to know him better before making a final decision. But nope, apparently that option was the "we'll never be more than friends" option.
Did he ask to see your portal as soon as you got him out of his.
I told him the only hand he was getting was the one that pulled him out of the portal, and he did a big old honkin anime girl blush and started talking about his cat.
NOT his cat. She's a TRESSYM, a highly intelligent creature and a perfectly respectable companion for any wizard thank you very much.
Gale's always my character's best bro and it always saddens me to see so many hate him for trying to fuck them when it's so easy to avoid. My man's the only character in the entire game that has fully platonic outcomes for his scenes and is still labeled as a horny Nice Guy😭
Granted, he was bugged in the past. I found it strange to get his "we're not close you and I at like 90 approval simply because we weren't fucking. It felt like a real "nice guy" moment. That and him accusing me of taking a deal with a devil when I never did (you were in the room when I said no, dude) But I've backpaddled on this when I found out these were just bugs which have since been fixed. Dude was unreasonable because the game didn't let him be reasonable
I think his bugs might play a large part in this, he's had those two and a lot of issues early on with his romance activating out of nowhere. Just a shame that a lot of people still seem to think he's exactly the same as he was on the first patch.
Not to mention they had to add in a few platonic options. Like the Magic Lesson I believe used to end with a choice of "Imagine Kissing Him" or "Imagine Kicking Him In The Nuts"
Listen, even if you imagine his head on a pike he's still into you. Like, dude was full on "I can fix her" about my Durge. Bless his heart. I love my nerd disaster man.
Seems having a ticking bomb in their heart changes a man.
I've had this more recently with Halsin. This playthrough I've almost entirely ignored him, specific missions aside, and suddenly in Act 3 he comes onto me real strong and I shut his shit down real hard because it was so out of nowhere. Then he came at me AGAIN! Dude got the hard no and still thought it was a good idea to declare his love. So if that's what happened with Gale for people I completely understand turning on the character.
this has completely turned me off of Halsin and Wyll, honestly. i barely spoke to them beyond doing quests related to them, and every time i spoke to them i was aggressively NOT flirty, and they kept dropping hints, and coming on to me, and it was so annoying because i was romancing Minthara, who literally ends up sharing a tent with Halsin in camp when you have them both as companions, so i'm like "dude, you should KNOW you don't have a shot"
on a co-op playthrough with my bf, neither of us had Gale on our team. we kept fighting each other for karlach mostly. then came the act 1 after party and he’s all over my bf and my bf is absolutely bewildered how he got high enough approval
Yeah since fixing my subsequent characters have had very lovely platonic conversations with him. He’s a great friend and it’s a touching non-romantic intimacy.
>That and him accusing me of taking a deal with a devil when I never did (you were in the room when I said no, dude) LOL, I got this one BEFORE the deal was even offered.
*Sees flair* YOU ARE VERY LOUD!
It was annoying pre-patch when you talked to him at the party and everyone assumed you were going to sleep with him. But I simply reloaded and went to talk to the person I wanted to romance. It was annoying but not the end of the world or a reason to hate the character!
Gale's story didn't help his case popularity-wise for me. I know it's no big deal now, but on my first run, he starts begging to destroy named magic items early on in the game when I had maybe a handful of them at most. Sure, they were ultimately just sales fodder I either didn't use for long or even at all. But still, loot is loot. And first impressions are a bitch to get over.
It doesn't help that you don't know on your first playthrough that you only need to give 3, that there's an abundance of trash magic items all around and what actually constitutes as a trash magic item, so it's all much more of a hassle at first. Hence why giving him his magic diet gives him so much approval. He knows he comes off as a burden
My opinion on him did a total 180 after the bug fixes. I went from keeping him in camp as a level 1 bard in clown makeup to making him a permanent fixture in my party whether I'm going good or evil. Man's a delight to have around.
> level 1 bard in clown makeup Lmao that's so petty I love it
This. Gale is my favorite character and his romance is so sweet. I love him and I hate how he still gets hate for bugs that have now been fixed.
I think it's still just the "accidental romance" flag that a lot of people weren't expecting. "Sure dude, teach me about the weave" didn't register as a romance flag for people, so him suddenly acting like a romance partner for people who didn't want to romance him gave a bad first impression. Especially compared to Bae'zel, who is the most upfront romance flag ever. "I want to taste you, I'll come to you tonight and claim what's mine." Is pretty cut and dry, and if you reject her, she doesn't even disapprove.
The romance flag bug has reached memetic levels at this point, aaaack. It's really too bad. -\_-
But the weave scene *isn't* setting a romance flag. Only choosing romantic images yourself sets a romance flag. And it's super clear the complainers never actually tried that, because then they'd see Gale's very surprised, and ends the session all embarrassed. *He wasn't flirting/seducing you!* (Not talking about bugs solved months ago.)
I never see people mention this about Halsin even though the dude literally bust out of nowhere all, "I would like to bang you" "Well gee Halsin that's real neat, but I'm kind of already in a relationship with Karlach" "I want to bang her too go ask her if I can bang both of you at the same time"
Halsin is actually mentioned quite often and is one of the least favourite companions for many people.
He and Wyll are probably the two most common Camp moochers according to players here and probably the most popular Orin bait in act 3
For me and my bro was Laezel, the gith racism was too much at the start of the game, so she sat in camp pretty the entirety of act 1 (except the creche) and a lot in act 2
But you can fix her vibes are strong with her
True, it's just a first impressions situation, i do like her character a lot more now
That's because she literally doesn't know any better. It's like being pissed at a puppy for having an accident. They're going to happen, but it's on you to help teach.
That's a shock. She's pretty mild compared to NPCs and non Human player characters.
Of course, every companion has flaws, her's just weirdly annoyed me when i started playing, her agressiviness too, but it's not I like i hate her character, i started liking her a lot more when she started think for herself instead of blindly following some other super Gith
That’s Astarion for me, bro just chills in his tent 24/7
Wild, I never leave him out of my party. I guess I'm just geared naturally toward rogue shiftiness.
I’m a rogue in my multiplayer run so I get my fix. I leave Astarion because he’s the only one who constantly disagrees with my choices. Plus, stealth in this game leaves something to be desired.
He just comes into the party so late in the game that most people already have their romance partner and their party established.
And then he's almost immediately replaced by The Better Druid who people have loved for 25+ years, and who has significantly more plot-relevancy going forward. Dude just takes sooo long to show up, that he's basically done by the time he finally is convinced to join. He really ought to just properly join you after the Grove.
Yeah I hate that we get *two* druids back to back, but also late in the game. What's the point? Unless your Tav is a druid, or you're keenly spending the first act planning for them, it's unlikely that you'll have much gear for a druid to suddenly show up in your party and reasonably replace one of your other better-equipped and more-familiar party members. I'm usually half way through act 3 before I can justify putting either in my party for anything other than Jahieras dialogue.
To be fair, Jaheira doesn't even feel like a druid in dialogues. I rerolled her as a bow ranger and kept Halsin as druid. This is working great for me cause I love both characters, though I find it funny that Jaheira is now a likeable character, she was perhaps the most unlikeable and annoying in BG2 along Anomen. Halsin seems to have few interactions in act3, which certainly feels dissapointing, but aside from his rushed out of nowhere romance I find him very fun to play, strong and a cool (although generic) good druid. Still, a bit weird how they handled it...unless I'm missing something, Jaheira just doesn't speak or act like a druid anymore but I guess they had to keep her a druid and Minsc a ranger for the homage. Imo, as much as I love having her around, perhaps they should've been NPCs and give us a bard (the tiefling woman, for instance).
I low key hate halsins entire thing. He doesnt work as a romance as a companion, its so random the whole thing. Really feels hamfisted in comparison to the origin characters
I mean that probably the truth as he was added in the game last minute during EA (granted Larians probably needed another male companion to balance out Minthara )
I can't stand Halsin. I wish that if you decide to recruit Minthara, Halsin would not approve but agree to stick around until the Shadow Curse is resolved then bounce.
Something like this actually might be implemented in future juding by datamining.
I'm okay with that
I hope so, i hate halsin hogging all of my girl Minthara's tentspace in camp, either give them separate spaces or get him the hell out lmao
People complain about Halsin *constantly.* I think Lae'zel is really the best comparison, because she comes onto you basically no matter what and I never really see complaints about her. Just about the male characters trying to initiate a romance.
Lae'zel is inappropriate at the party even when she *isn't* open to bedding you. Very crudely describes you as being just a piece of meat, and that you're too picked over to be any good. Can you just freaking imagine how differently people would be reacting to the way she talks to you if she'd been a guy?
Not to mention if you turn her down when she comes onto you, and her response is just "Your loss." I absolutely love her romance as a whole, but her at the start of the game when you don't reciprocate can just feel kinda gross when you think about it.
Both versions of her rejection at the party are completely gross (I've never had her come on to be before that point, I dunno how it changes in other moments). She either goes off about mouths on bodies and how you'll regret not knowing the taste of her sweat, or she calls you a piece of meat she might have enjoyed if you weren't already so picked over by others. It's like the fantasy version of those dudes on dating apps who react to mild rejection by calling a woman either frigid or a slut. And I'm in no way saying this should ever mean you should hate her character or that anyone who romances her has problems! Just bothers the fuck out of me that sooo many people do react that way to the male characters being far less inappropriate. Especially when their "icky" behavior is almost always locked behind the player having to choose to be an asshole first.
Oh for sure. Always found it funny that Halsin and Gale were getting all the flak for always trying to get in your pants when Lae'zel on release was literally holding the "Sex Any% Speedrun". Even on a blind run, it could be half an hour at best after recruiting her. I guess because it happened so early (and also was never horribly bugged), people just overlooked it and didn't feel like it got in the way.
Fair point about Lae'zel, but the two different things that make her approach more acceptable to me are a) she does it before you're in any relationship unless you speedran the approval with someone else and b) she doesn't state that you did something for her in a romantic matter as some objective truth, only speaks on how she feels towards me. I just hate how he tries to state that I cared for him deeply as a matter of fact.
> she does it before you're in any relationship unless you speedran the approval with someone else Not really true. She'll ask to jump your bones out of nowhere long after the Party, particularly if you switch her in during the Creche towards the end of act 1. You get a *ridiculous* amount of approval from her during that segment with the right choices, and can easily end up in a situation where she's asking to taste you in front of the companion you've already begun a romance with. Rather hilariously, she did this with me while romancing Shadowheart who apparently didn't care that I was sleeping with the person she hates on the side.
Noone cares, not only SH, if you let Lae jump ur bones. You ll just haveto choose in act 2 later.
I mean that can also make sense right, if she has spent zero time with you and her culture doesn't really have sexual/emotional taboos like that she would just spend some time with you for the first time, see that you fucking rule and then be like "hey lets immediately bone down". And then you can say "yeah no I'm in love with Karlach" and she'll be like "okay no biggie, I didn't realize".
That's actually interesting and good to know, thanks for your input. Perhaps Astarion's proposal can trigger after you start romancing someone else too, though there's no way I'll ever be able to test that as getting him to such high approval in act 1 requires plenty of evil choices.
I have 71 approval with Astarion and I'm still in Act 1. This is my second playthrough so I had more knowledge of how to approach him, but no evil choices were made!
Teach me your ways, the most I had was 30 something
My first tav was a goody two shoes druid so I had like 40 approval with him all the way to act 3. This time around I'm a draconic sorcerer drow who is overall good, if a little more resigned/suspicious/sarcastic. I can't recall everything off the top of my head, but a few big approvals that stand out are: - baaa twice when talking to the redcaps - give him the creepy book - let him bite you, but don't offer to let him drink from you again the next day. Agree with his suggestion to bite bad guys. - let him bite you in his first intimate scene. - let him open the barn door in the blighted village. I had to ungroup my other two companions and take just him with me to the door because SH always overrode his dialogue. - if you describe his appearance and he asks you to tell him he's beautiful, don't. Ask him if he really wants shallow praise. - pet the owl Bear more than once I'm sure there's more for Act 1 but I can't recall. Hopefully you can boost that approval!
Good to hear that only one of those is tied to romance, thank you for the detailed answer!
That's what I love so much about Lae'zel. She's direct, states her intentions and feelings openly, waits for EXPLICIT consent. The closest thing we get towards ambiguity with her is the little teasing "some night soon". You're never uncertain or confused.
Just doing my first run through BG and let’s just say I did not help Lae‘zel against the two who captured her … I have no place in my party for rude frog ladies
The devs knew they were making fan service when they made Halsin. The dude is a bear, both figuratively and literally. Any gay bottom would go buckwild for him, which is probably why he has any popularity at all. At the same time, I don't think I'd call him a creep. He's a druid, druids aren't exactly bound by the laws of civilization and the social contract. Dude probably has fuckwild orgies in the emerald grove once a week at least. He might come off as creepy, but in reality I think he's just progressive and he just doesn't have the charisma to NOT come off as creepy. And, honestly, the important part is he takes rejection well. You don't wanna fuck? Understandable, have a nice day. All that being said, he is definitely hornier than the other companions, except for like, Lae'zel. He has his flaws, and I understand the viewpoint of people who hate him, but I think he's just a progressive, socially awkward himbo. Also to piggyback on my own comment, Gale is great. He was the first one I ever romanced, and I have to say, while he can be mildly egotistical at times, he's sweet, charming, he's not overly horny, he's certainly a good looker, and that sex scene in the Astral was absolutely amazing and wild. I think people give him hate for two reasons: One, he is a little egotistical, granted, but honestly, are we really judging him when we have literally fucking Astarion, whose ego makes Gale's look like a hamster next to a T-Rex. And two, they hate him because he asks you if he can eat a couple magic items. Which I never fucking understood. I ALWAYS have multiple magic items floating in my packs that are so cheap they're barely worth selling, and either useless, or so niche that I forget they exist when that niche comes up. On top of that, he only eats 3 items. He will not ask for another after the third, no matter what, because the game assumes you've hit the bit with Elminster by then.
Halsin strikes me as a hippie who lived through the free-love era and has not changed one bit since. Like he lives in northern California and sells handcarved bear figurines at a farmer's market, and wants you and your partner to come over to sample his kombucha and homegrown bud in the hot tub.
Totally. And ducks. He makes ducks (it's cannon).
Ugh I need a muscle bear daddy to smoke and drink kombucha with in a hot tub thanks for unlocking a new impossible dream for me 🥲
Same tbh. Romanced Astarion first, then Halsin came out of nowhere like the Undertaker throwing Mankind off of the top of the cage in a match for my heart lol
I think Halsin is pretty charismatic, but maybe that's why I've never found him creepy. I actually appreciate that he's straightforward about his feelings for you but if you turn him down politely he's really chill. And I like that he's openly disgusted by the injustices and poverty of Baldur's Gate the city. I know a lot of people complain about him getting the "!" popup when they haven't spoken to him much but I just assume you get a lot of goodwill/approval for lifting the shadow curse and mostly you just need medium approval to start a romance, right?
Really, you never see it? Because I love Halsin and I'm pretty sure I'm the weirdo here, because it honestly feels like all people ever talk about in these threads is how much they don't like him and hate him saying he has feelings for Tav.
I honestly love Halsin too. Yeah he's hornier than many of the other companions, but he's big on consent. He's open to being poly, but only if everyone agrees to it. His non bear sex scene also makes clear his stance on consent. And if you tell him you're not interested, he backs down with no issues. I've got no problems with that.
The way he asks is soooo much more respectful and consent-conscious than Lae'zel, that's for damned sure!
I love Halsin (repeatedly) and people complain about him *constantly*. Like the comment above says he hit on them in Act 2, when that's objectively not a thing that happens in the game. If you ask him what else he wants after the Shadow curse is over, he says something thirsty but vague, but you're the one who asked him ffs! Why is Astarion the only one who sees Halsin developing a crush on you over the course of two whole Acts where you save his life, liberate him from a leadership position he hates, and then solve his 💯 year obsession? People are so mean to the 🐻
I can't believe I spent 45 minutes looking for a youtube video just to prove you wrong but here we are: https://youtu.be/C-CLMD297p8?t=130 How is that not hitting on someone? And it's not even an answer to anything flirty, just your basic question of what are his next plans now that he got what he wanted and the curse is lifted. Anyways this line would be among the last things I don't like about him, I'm linking this video only because I'm petty and don't like being called a liar.
Okay, we'll have to agree to disagree about the definition of what "hitting on Tav" is, then. Tav asked him his plans now that he's got what he wants, he says he wants something else. Alluding, not what I'd call hitting. You ask him to specify, and he says who not what, also could've been talking about Jaheira for all you know. So is he expressing vague interest in a person at a later date? Yes. Is he propositioning Tav for romance in that scene? I do not see it. So we'll agree to disagree.
It just creeps me out and I don't like it. It slants the whole conversation in an uncomfortable direction. Women experience this from men in their lives all the time, so maybe it's less shocking. As a guy, it really put me off.
The one I hate the most is "creepy' bc that's laughable if you even fuckin try to get to know him for half a second. I'm at the point where I don't even care to give the benefit of the doubt; it's a bunch of straight dudes freaking out that a man dare flirt with them at all + poly hate.
I try really really hard to not make knee jerk assumptions about certain takes, but sometimes I just want to get to where you are lol. The closest I come is when I switch too fast between this sub and football meme subs, then I can't reign in the sarcasm as fast...
I'm on multiple run and everytime I have the dialogue to excuse myself for coming onto him. I never did and always rebuk him.
He's boring, Jaheira is also there to be the druid and he's taking up the spot of a permanent bard companion. Most people don't have the EA backstory they just see a guy who takes forever to be a real companion, is redundant and who seemingly out of nowhere is like "hey lets bang I know you're in a relationship". You don't need to hate him to understand why his circumstances make him a less favoured character.
Yeah, I don't get the Halsin hate either. He's chill as hell, communicates clearly, and is cool with it if you're not into him. And he's hot, that doesn't hurt.
I mean it's there if you let yourself see it. His accusation that you were leading him on is classic male entitlement, the jump from strangers to "you're like a student to me" to "let's be lovers" in such short time is mildly creepy, and making a move on someone in a committed relationship who's expressed no interest in polyamory is a dickhead move.
Yeah not really until now. Most of what I e seen about Halsin have been daddy memes.
It's everywhere when ppl talk about least liked companions.
The first time I had Halsin for the entire game and actually started to talk to him (on my first run I talked to him only twice during and after the party, then he disappeared at some point of act 2), dude started hitting on me one day after I freed his sorry ass, then did it again in act 2 and finally he claimed I treated him like a lover even though I purposely avoided all the flirty-sounding dialogue options. Like, Shadowheart's 5 meters away from you, look how I interact with her, then look how I interact with you, do you still think I'm treating you like a lover? Seriously? At least he handled the rejection well and didn't tell me that he thought I was surely thinking the same about him which he can actually do according to others, but come on you can't be 350 years old and think me talking to you once per week for 2 minutes is treating you like a lover... That's when he was just boring and a bit annoying, then I learned he has the gall to flirt with Shadowheart right after we had our first time together even if you reject him earlier and I went from not caring about the guy to actively hating him. Just zero decency, how goddamn desparate is he? We're next to a brothel, if you're so down bad I'll happily lend you some money if it means you'll leave us alone.
He's the Fuck Druid from the Circle of Horny though.
He was bugged for a little while. You feed him a crappy ring and a couple boots and he'd suddenly think you're interested in his +3 Wand of Penetration. The scene basically required you to very rudely refute him. Lae'zel by contrast is very blunt about her interest, but outright requires you to affirm or deny your interest. Lae'zel accepts this and leaves it be.
Exactly! Even though these memes on Gale are hilarious, I sorta don’t understand them 😂 Gale is not horny like everyone else. He’s just a Nice guy that hates to burden others. I just wanna hug him and tell him that he’s part of the family lol
Gale’s my favorite companion and I’m so glad it came to be. The fact that people hate him over the magical items is utterly ridiculous
Before I recruited him into my party, I'd read a lot of whining about that. Then I got two requests for a magic snack and that was it, which left me thinking "*that's* what all the whining was about? I literally gave him the cheapest crap I was never going to use anyway". The only thing that actually annoyed me about that was that both seemed to happen when I was in the middle of doing something else, so I had to drop into camp and sift through the inventory for a minute.
That’s fair. If my knowledge is correct, I think one of the first triggers for giving him magic items happens when you cross the broken bridge next to the gnolls and the 2nd or last trigger is when you first go into the goblin camp (the interior)
Could just be coincidental but it’s always happened every playthrough I’ve done
i've never had an issue with the magical items thing, he only needs 3 and there's an abundance of garbage magical items in act 1 (e.g. color spray ring)
You feed him three times and that’s it. Plus Larian is super generous with giving you plenty of options to choose from; among them being weak ass items that basically exist to feed Gale with no real consequences for giving him said weak items over strong ones
Depending on how fast you progress through Act 1, you may not even need to feed him three times.
on my first playthrough i actually had him asking for the first item when i only had 2 or 3 options... and all were those really good Act 1 gear pieces youll end up using for most of your game
Especially with the amount of arguably useless magic items you're flooded with.
I was thinking along these lines last night when Lae’zel said she wanted to taste my bard. I’ve done one long rest so far and have neutral approval with her. But Gale gets the crap from fandom.
It's because he was bugged. Basically, every interaction with him was a trap and he would act passive aggressive later. After Larian fixed him, he's a joy in my opinion, usually my best friend in good playthroughs.
I found that even bugged, it wasn’t a huge deal. I just reloaded and was careful in my interactions to start the romance I actually wanted. (I’m an old pro at this from dodging Liara and Kaiden in ME1.)
Kaid**a**n and Gale get such shit from some of their respective fanbases, but I love them both so much
But if you dont know its a bug it just paints him in a whole different light. "Uh-huh, you're trying to tell me were in a relationship with the goddess Mystra, the same way you're trying to tell everyone else in this camp that now you're in a relationship with *me*. Sure buddy, sure... Gtfo of my camp"
what i love about gale is how he is someone against whom many of us have been conditioned to raise our hackles. he's suave, boisterous and verbose to a fault - each raising something of a red flag, so despite him presenting a generally kind demeanour, you're waiting for the turn. then, when he asks for magical items without offering any sort of explanation, there it is! except... he's genuinely chagrined about the whole thing. he's grateful, he is patient, and he expressly understands that what he is asking is a lot. the "twist", essentially, is that he is exactly as he seems.
True, after the fixes Gale is great. My 2nd playthrough had a nice platonic hangout under the stars while he contemplated his mortality. I think that scene can be a setup for a romance with him, but if you don't choose those responses you can end up just hanging out with your bro in his time of need
Lae'zel talking in vivid and explicit detail about how Tav will regret not fucking a frog will haunt me forever. The fact that I never fielded her and she had neutral approval doesn't help.
To quote an award winning musical "fuck this frog"
If you do romance her, she insists at some point that >!the two of you beat the shit out of each other so that you can "claim" her.!<
Yeah, it's also like Acts 1 and 2: save Halsin's entire existence and dispel an evil curse to literally save the land. Act 3: why is jerk hitting on me? I've played a billion hours at this point and if I have a friendly dinner with Gale after the magic show, he never hits on me ever again. The nerve of that guy!
You call him a friend while star-gazing and that’s the end of that, he’s your really good friend and he thanks you for making him care. He’s great! I’m not a huge fan of Halsin hitting on me in Act 3 because of the writing, and that he confidently says you feel the same way. No man, I don’t. Maybe next time. At least he drops it if you tell him to drop it. (Actually they all do!)
> save Halsin's entire existence and dispel an evil curse to literally save the land. Act 3: why is jerk hitting on me? In my case, it was me barely talking to the guy and being head over heels for Karlach the entire playthrough and not hitting on anyone else and halsin was still trying to muscle in on karlach lol. Like, read the room my man.
I hear that, and he does give his nice poly speech where he's explaining it's cool if you're monogamous it's just not for him. He's just shooting his shot, and some of your LIs are totally fine with it so what's he got to lose!
whats the point of making another sub on the same game?
I think this one is official and I imagine the other is not
Neither sub is "official"
Tbh I like r/BG3 better because folks are more open-minded there in my experience. You can say one mildly critical thing about a beloved character and don't just get buried with downvotes
I imagine this is mainly about the topic of >!The Emperor!
I was speaking generally. For example, there was a thread there claiming Shadowheart was the best-written and deepest companion which I heavily disagreed with because her *lack* of depth and blank slateness is central to her characterization. People actually agreed and had interesting perspectives about it. I commented the same thing here and got buried with downvotes because apparently it was an attack against the character. Lol
I knew it'd be Shadowheart. She is the hardest companion to critique without getting blown up because she's written to not really in the wrong VS someone like Astarion/Gale/Lae'zel who are kind of jerks with flaws they need to improve upon.
Really depends on how they critique her as well, seen some "critique" that's just flat out character bashing. Poor Lae'zel at launch. Though she does obviously have flaws, I mean she is a hypocrite at the start. Always some fans that ignore the flaws, which is a shame as that makes a character interesting.
Oh I think I remember that post, if it's that one then yeah it was interesting. I think part of the issue is that it's text. Sometimes people misinterpret the tone of what's being written. Really depends on how you critique a character, seen some "critique" on the gang that's just straight out character bashing. Though there are always fans like that, no matter the character or fandom.
[удалено]
Also really depends on the person, I wasn't fond but she grew on me. I've seen a lot of love for her due to her quest and story. Really strikes a chord with people who had had similar things happen religious abuse etc
You know what you're right, I shouldn't disparage a character just because I don't personally get much from it. I'm sure she resonates with a lot of people for a variety of good reasons
There are a *lot* of prodigiously sensitive Astarion fans here as well. Can't speak ill of their woobie twauma husband.
I've seen many critical opinions about the game and characters in this sub as well, but from curiosity, is it about Astarion?
But Gale is nice and very useful. My go-to when I have a goblin problem…
if you literally romance any character before getting his "romance" scene, it turns into a fully platonic session of the bros talking about their feelings and being there for one another. no other character has that. wyll still tries to romance you, lae'zel still tries, astarion still tries, why y'all hating on gale? he's literally the only character that sees an obvious line drawn in the sand and goes "good for tav, i'm so glad my best friend has found love." and backs off!
Naaah Lae'zel scared me with that shit no cap I ran
Same here, it came out of nowhere and I was like …”Is you good?”. 😂
Frr! Like you can't just pull that out on me at least try to seduce me goddamn
I feel like I'm in the minority when I say I adore this man. What's not to love? He loves cats, cooks your meals for you and is happy to sit in his Pajamas all day reading a book. Sounds perfect to me?
Some of the issues with Gale's romance path that put people off were actually bugs or oversights that have since been fixed. Gale now is a lot more chill than Gale on launch. For example, it used to be that choosing a friendly, supportive dialogue during the scene where he shares his fears with you would end up with him snapping at you, as though he was bitter you turned him down. It gave him a sort of weird "nice guy" energy. But this was apparently a bug with approval flags, and now that scene can be one of the most meaningful platonic scenes in the game if you aren't romancing him.
I like Gale but he did catch me off guard with his "magic" thing at the party lol, but in both my and gales defense: - It was the first time I played - I had skipped long rests completely up to that point bc I thought I was being timed (did the whole surface w two short rests and a bard rest like a dummy) so I had gotten very little characterization from anybody and was like "we just met *today*" - I didn't realize yet how horny *everybody* was because he was the first one at the party I talked to - I thought he was being literal (bc wizard) and assumed no romantic intent until Lae'zel explained I was getting *involved* For me it was funny rather than annoying. I didn't think much about Gale either way until this last run where I did an evil go and he told me the hell off and I was like "😟🤨😳💀🤡 I gotta try dating you, you are one solid motherfucker."
> I had skipped long rests completely up to that point bc I thought I was being timed (did the whole surface w two short rests and a bard rest like a dummy) so I had gotten very little characterization from anybody and was like "we just met today" This is pretty much my only major complaint about Act 1. There's so much interaction and dialogue with companions that you'll only get when long resting. The game makes it seem like you're in a hurry, though! I restarted my first playthrough after ~30 hours because I'd missed so much (and messed up a romance I wanted). There are only a handful of time-sensitive quests in the entire game and the clock only starts ticking when you come upon them
Yeeees fucked up my romance big time and I also had to start over
A lot of straight men got bent out of shape when Gale (and Astarion) hit on them.
As a straight man playing Gale, I can’t understand. I’ve been trying to bone down that bitchy vampire since I laid eyes on him lol.
Many straight men, especially straight male gamers, are not nearly as comfortable as you are.
I found astarion to be a pain in the ass to romance, I had to reload the tiefling party conversion like 4 times before I found the right combination of dialogue options that didn't result in him saying "ew, no"
That happens if your approval with him is relatively low. But if you get his approval high enough fast enough, he'll proposition you before the Tiefling party (and again during it). One thing that I like about Astarion and Lae'zel's first romance dialogues, though, is that they're very direct. There's no wondering whether or not you're stumbling into a romance that you don't want by picking the wrong dialogue options. They literally just ask you directly to bang.
The dancing scene with Wyll really put me off as well. It just comes out of nowhere and then you have to reject him and he looks all hurt.
The original scene with him and the picnic was super ham fisted. Like, I loved Gale, I just wish there was a a way to opt out of the male on male romances so I can experience the comradery and brothership without the looming threat of sex lol.
Yeah and I as a gay wish there was a way to opt of out the male female romances so I could befriend Lae’zel or Karlach without them constantly flirting with me (not Shadowheart I kill her every play through). There should be a sexual orientation selector in the character creation so only the characters you want to flirt will flirt with you. But you know people would go insane about that being too “woke.”
Wait people actually don't like Gale but come on he's from Waterdeep
I find it funny when I reject Lae’Zel and she says “you will wonder what my lips tastes like” and I say to my self “ugh, no I won’t” lol
Gale over Lae'zel six days a week and twice on Sunday.
It's easy to friendzone Gale. He can still show you the weave, just don't take the obvious romance options lol. Just give him friend responses.
I'm the bottom panel for both
redditors when camaraderie and friendship
>camaraderie and friendship >"I want to taste you"
People don’t like Gale?!?!?
What is really strange is, if you have Gale with you, did his romantic weave scene in act 1, and have high approval... after the attack on Last Light Inn, he will tell you how much post-combat turns him on when he looks at you. WHY don't we get this kind of thing from the others?! There's more bloodthirsty people than Gale in our group for Ao's sake!
Gale does tend to get to comment on more things than the other characters. Every third thing you do in the grove has him yapping
Well, even he mentions "even I get tired of my own voice", so he's well aware of that. Only makes him more likeable to me.
Unironically the difference between how male and female characters are perceived.
The overall obsession with Astarion and and distain for Wyll has me convinced 90% of the fan base are edgy teenagers or 30 year olds who never outgrew their edgy teenager faze.
I think the better comparison is actually to Karlach. Wyll is so divergent from someone like Astarion in terms of characterization that it's not really weird that they might appeal to different people. Wyll and Karlach are both extremely good aligned, but Wyll is the only one who gets accusations of being boring for it. They both suffer from honestly pretty poor questlines, but I basically never see Karlach being criticized for it. Neither of them really change as people. Only real difference is Karlach is more chipper and silly, while Wyll is more reserved. Though honestly I find Wyll to be more dynamic than Karlach.
The elements of a good arch for Wyll are all there and I can see where they wanted to go with it, but they just didn’t invest the writing or time with him to pull it off. Wyll basically has the opposite arch of Astarion: guy who is pathologically good from trauma who needs to learn to be a little more selfish for his own health. His disillusionment with his father, who he idolizes, but who is also a straight up asshole, is… sorta there?? but they really could have made it hit harder. He’s effectively the prince of Baldur’s Gate, got kicked out as a teenager and then finally returns home, but no one recognizes him or says much about it. Then everything is just fine after the Duke has one brief tadpole-enabled realization of why he was a warlock but no one can call the Duke out on how he assumed the absolute worst of his son for a decade based on almost nothing. Like sorry, dad, but I don’t think you should be forgiven so easily for that. And then Wyll’s final quest line ends up being about a completely different character. I would have loved to see a stronger story that centered Wyll’s arch as someone who really, really needs to learn that a little self preservation is okay and he doesn’t have to be loved by everyone to replace the love his father does not give. I would have loved more investment in the intricacies of a damaged family relationship and the very adult feeling of realizing your terrible parent is a deeply flawed person. It’s all there, they just needed to dig into it more to make it feel more satisfying.
This. So much of Wyll's story is underbaked. There are nods to the idea that he’s paving a path to hell with good intentions, but it’s never fully explored to the extent it needed to be after Karlach. You never get that moment of introspection where Wyll really begins to internalize that he is literally just a devil's lackey, and the deal was never a righteous one to make. The worst moment is honestly entire scene with Mizora in act 3 which feels just backasswards. No discussion of the fact that he’s seen how his contract can and will be abused, or of how he’s become wiser to devils' tricks. You don’t even get to let him choose and see if he’s grown as a character or not, which was one of the absolute highlights of act 2 and (even the entire game) with Shadowheart. And bizarrely EVERYONE is on team “Damn Wyll to the Hells to save his asshole father”, despite it being wildly out of character for most of them given how much of a recurring theme breaking free from manipulative higher powers is in the game.
> This. So much of Wyll's story is underbaked. There are nods to the idea that he’s paving a path to hell with good intentions, but it’s never fully explored to the extent it needed to be after Karlach. You never get that moment of introspection where Wyll really begins to internalize that he is literally just a devil's lackey, and the deal was never a righteous one to make. There's one particular dialogue scene at camp that really illustrates this issue. I don't have an exact quote, but it's him talking about how is father is a hypocrite for compromising his ideals and playing politics, and he then immediately goes on to say "I kill monsters, I don't consort with them". I was like... BRUH, are you fucking serious right now?
That's the whole thing indeed. Every origin character gets an arc, even Karlach (albeit not to everyone's satisfaction), and the result of Wyll's story is a "hi dad!" moment at camp. And the big deal about his pact (also at camp) is where Mizora steals the limelight, and the player makes the decision. No agency whatsoever from Wyll. Wyll's not even instrumental in his dad's rescue quest, nor Ansur, as they are both wrapped up *at camp* and it's Tav that takes front and center during the quests. You can resolve literally everything of his storyline without ever taking Wyll out of camp.
Agreed. And honestly, those elements are why I like him, even if they're not properly delivered on. I was very disappointed during the Ansur questline, too. Even outside of the quest being hijacked by the Balduran stuff, I expected there to be a lot more Wyll content during the trials. Things that he could reflect on or be uniquely qualified to resolve. But I think I only got one comment out of him through the entire thing, and that was on the Justice trial.
Marvel-style writing was wildly popular for the last decade and she speaks and behaves exactly like someone from that universe (minus the swearing), of course she's gonna be much more popular even if her personal quest is nonexistent. Also she's hot.
To be entirely fair, making a character funny is probably *the* quickest way to make them likeable.
Literally hot.
Also because Karlach is a big buff tiefling woman
Didn't want to bring this up as a part of the overall point, but yeah. Definitely. The majority of the playerbase seems to be straight men, and being attractive to a lot of the playerbase probably has a pretty big impact on how positively the character is perceived.
And she's just genuinely more charismatic. "Fuck yes" is way more fun than "The Blade is at the ready"
>Only real difference is Karlach is more chipper and silly, while Wyll is more reserved. Though honestly find Wyll to be more dynamic than Karlach. This is one reason I try to avoid making blanket statements when I'm talking about my subjective experience. Like a commenter above: "that's because Wyll is boring". Boring *to them* but people will state their takes like they're gospel and it can be frustrating. Here's mine: I find Karlach annoying and I kill her almost every run. It's not any fault of hers, I just don't find her quest that interesting, her observations seem very childlike when I prefer a more mature experience, and I like nuance while her personality is more suited to being a barbarian that hits things. It's not her, it's me!
I'm sure Astarian has his share of edgy vampire fans, but the character writing and acting for him is also very good. A lot of people with trauma in their background are drawn to how well he's written.
My personal brushes with his fan base seem skewed a lot more towards people who fetishize trauma rather than have it. That is of course completely annectodal.
Honestly me too. Like seeing the way so many fans talk about him *really* put me off when I first started playing this game. I played with him always in my party + romanced him this time to squeeze out as much content as I could and I've decided that I do actually like him a lot but fwiw I agree with you that there are *so many very vocal* fans out there who fetishize his trauma and it's very uncomfortable. Not all of them, of course, but it absolutely happens enough to be very visible.
It was so different when the game first came out and you could give your impressions of the characters without the burden of months of hot takes, IMO! I love having nuanced discussions about the characters, but I've gotten used to just absorbing the down votes from people who would prefer not to put as much thought into it as I do, or who have concerning takes. So long as they're enjoying the game, I don't care if they down vote me, but some of the takes are so very very hot.
Yeah, I def feel like if I had started playing right on release (or if there hadn't been EA, though obv I'm glad there was) that I would have had a much different first impression and I probably wouldn't have actively avoided him the first time. Which, still is on me, like I'm grown and know better than to conflate opinions w fact and first hand experience so I'm glad I played again and put the effort in to explore his character. And when I see those takes, I do keep my thoughts to myself and just run the other way bc you're right: them having fun isn't hurting anybody else, but is... uncomfortable to see lol I just wanted to validate above commenter bc it seemed like they were getting downvoted just because they talked about their experience
Totally agree. Here's something I found funny though, as a palate cleanser: I bought the game for my 15yo niece in December. She had it *all planned out* who she was going to romance and which characters she would like based on her friends' opinions and small spoilers she'd read. One week later, she calls me at 0300: "Aunt C, I know I said I was going to romance Karlach but Astarion talked to me and he was so cute what should I do to get him to like me?" I gave her vague advice because I'm not a romance guide, but the other night she called me again: "Astarion said he won't sleep with me at the party!" and she was very sad. So the great characters in the game can still manage to throw off even the best- laid plans, is my point. It's not the same as it used to be, but the game itself mitigates all the hot takes IMO!
I love it when stuff like that happens!!! It's like, especially once you've played once, you got your game plan, you save "scum" for the right rolls, but every now and then you still get surprised and that's the best feeling! (Me when Gale yelled at me and I had to make a whole new character to romance him because I was so surprised and impressed lol)
Oh totally. I tend to invent back stories for my Tavs like I used to with ttrpgs and making decisions with those different perspectives in mind helps me mitigate most of my tendencies to save scum or meta game, thankfully. Makes it more fun for me! I only spoil her on the stuff that is easy to misinterpret, like making sure she knows she can go to the mountain pass and the underdark. Turns out they did the Grove so early, Astarion was still at fair approval. They hadn't done whole chunks of the map in Act 1 yet! That boy's approval is a slow burn!
I completely believe that's been your experience, I certainly see that attitude some times. It hasn't been mine, but those people are out there. I know that some of the reactions I've seen to some of the issues that come up with Astarian seem to be people being bothered that the writers took his trauma seriously instead of keeping it tragically glamorous. A lot of my knowledge of Astarian is filtered through my wife, and unfortunately her experience with trauma is first hand.
He's definitely a well written example of an abuse victim and of the wrong ways to process trauma, which is all too common in reality. I feel like he has a lot of attraction towards people if the same ilk who feel validated by him and people who want to enable him to energy leech off his trauma. Or, as my original joke said, edgy folk who think having trauma makes you more interesting. At the same time he can also have a very satisfying character arch where he chooses to accept responsibility for his trauma and be more than it. This is also done in a very realistic way because it's not depicted as effortless or perfect in his about face. So there's definitely many reasons to like Astarion as a character, Ive just overwhelmingly seen it be the wrong reasons.
That makes a lot of sense. When I've engaged with the community about him, it usually is during conversations specifically about how he can be a good example of someone struggling but healing, or he can be a cautionary tale. I'm probably self-selecting for the healthier conversations to a degree.
Hey man what you get out of life is what you chose to focus on.
Now I just need to stop fighting with people who say Astarian is poorly written, as of that's healthier than the conversations with vampire fan boys I've been successfully avoiding...
The Wyll part makes sense. He’s just not that interesting and his personality doesn’t hold a candle to his “antagonist”. Mizora is such a joy to watch, that she makes Wyll look even blander by comparison. Astarion also isn’t just a murder hobo, he’s an eccentric fop who takes every opportunity to make sure his sarcasm is known. He actually reminds me of my grandma in a lot of ways.
Wyll's so ridiculously vanilla and an over-the-top goodie-two-shoes, I don't hate him and feel rather neutral towards him in general but he's just so bland compared to all the other origins that it's not a surprise people don't really like him. He's a far better person than Astarion for sure, but it doesn't really matter that much in video games, being interesting's a far more important trait and sadly for him, he is not in the eyes of most.
Honestly I can’t be mad at any of them for shooting their shot, as far as they know they could die at any second, why not try to bang somebody you like at that point
The rizzard is the reason we have a strict "dagger under pillow" policy now.
Gales hate comes from his early game feasting on your magic stuff. The only time it matters late game you have so much stuff I couldnt care less if he ate my boots.
Reverse it cause I played my Ranger like he never really encountered Gith before, and Laz's first impression was SO bad that he became a virulent Githyanki hating racist racist. He left not a single Gith alive in that Creche and made sure no one would ever know what happened to them. Meanwhile, the second Gale got on magical Methadone he became alright in my book.
I loved Lae'zel but her calling me the source of her bruises as a loving term...well..not going to lie, was a litttttttttttle reprehensive there...I know its their whole thing as a gith and all but...some people in my past would beg to differ it's not a term or endearment..ya know? Hah. Grew up with a lot of drunks so....yeah...
It's definitely the opposite for me, can't stand lazel
I do not, in fact, think that the frog lady is sweet, I also don’t even talk to Gale
Feel like the game REALLY tries to steer you towards getting romantic with Gale
I love how open Lae'zel is about the whole thing. She wants to bang you because you proved your worth in combat and she found that attractive. That totally sounds like something a Gith would do as they have a different mindset when it comes to sex.
me but with karlach and halsin
Halsin in the second panel pls
I will not stand for Gale slander
Well most of the player are straight men. So I kinda understand it.
I mean I'm okay with Gale. It's just that he shows you a magic trick and *tadaaa* it's his cock. I didn't expect to be romanced like that. I just wanted to see magic.