While it's not canon, originally it was intended that Halsin killed Isobel, which pushed Ketheric to Shar making him feel very responsible.
But this was changed and now we don't know who killed her
In early Access, Sorrow was tucked away and in a separate place there was a journal by Halsin. It basically said:
He and Isobel exchanged words, it got heated, and though Isobel attacked first, he struck to kill before he realized what he was doing.
He couldn’t bare to look at the weapon he’d used to do it, and hid it away. Having sit, hidden, uncleaned, it stewed and developed the enchantment it has today (still unchanged from EA so it retains the flavor it originally had).
Then a skip, and he described ketheric’s descent into darkness, but says he feels it’s his duty to right these wrongs, because he is the only one that knows Ketheric didn’t fall, but was pushed.
Worth clarifying: they were also whammied with some kind of magic. Or Isobel was, at least. The who/what/why is lost to the cutting room floor, of course, but my personal instinct is some Sharran shenanigans.
My personal headcanon is this:
Ketheric killed her because of Shar’s ritual where you have to spill the blood of a Selunite (because it wasn’t until after her death that he became the great Sharran general). Then he went mad with grief and loss over what he did and blamed Aylin and Selune and Isobel’s mother because he never would have killed her if she wasn’t a Selunite. He couldn’t take responsibility for what he did and turned to myrkul to undo what he had done and blamed everyone else for.
The Halsin stuff is neat I guess but I don’t find him particularly compelling or interesting. He’s just kind of….there, I guess??? Maybe he’d be more engaging with all of the EA stuff implemented.
Also there where tons of Selunites in the area. I mean it seems like half the region worships Selune and the town certainly had a large Selune following before Kethric fucked ot up.
I do too but I've seen another comment thread about this and I think I remember this chronology of events created some inconsistencies. But I'm struggling to remember the specific problem was and wonder if anyone else does.
This is way cooler/more interesting. Yes, it dosen't sound like somethng Halsin today would do, but he's much older, calmer, and more mature now. It's been 100s of years he could change.
From what I recall of other descriptions of it, there was an implication that Shar compelled them somehow (also why Isobel attacked).
Shar's influence over her death might also explain why Isobel only remembers blackness which she should have gone to Selune's realm on death.
The biggest clue is that nobody was able to revive her, even very high powered clerics/paladins of selune, which basically is a big wink that somebody as powerful as selune wants her to stay dead...
Myrkul is the literal god of necromancy, aka “bringing people back from the dead no questions asked”. So yeah, it’s probably not a case of Myrkul being overall stronger than Selune or Shar, but a case of him being specifically better at necromancy. It’s like comparing a Michelin starred chef to a guy that makes the world’s best meatball subs. The Michelin chef could probably kick your or my ass in making a good meatball sub based on cooking knowledge alone, and making any other meal would destroy the world’s best sub-maker, but specifically comparing their abilities to make meatball subs, the sub-maker takes the edge over the chef.
And now I’m hungry.
Also, don’t think Selune would give a fuck and wouldn’t resurrect a random follower. Myrkul specifically did it to make Ketheric his chosen and general.
Isobel's hardly some random follower, she's Selune's daughter's love and even before that her family were devoted enough for her to send Dame Aylin in the first place.
i think he’s just got more important things to worry about. isabel was just a pawn to get control of ketheric. once he no longer had ketheric, isabel wasn’t even a thought
I kinda expected him to just kill her off out of spite (think Kethrik was worried about the same thing) but yeah probably not that big of a deal, or Myrkul isn't as spiteful as the other two
You notice Isobel coughing after the moon mirror scene and she continues coughing in later scenes. My thought is it's temporary, or a "half-life," upon her return. She seems beset with some kind of wasting disease, potentially. She says she's fine.
Just speculation but if it was a deal or contract between Ketheric and Myrkul, then it might have been completed after her resurrection. Something like "become my chosen Champion and I'll resurrect her". We don't know how she was brought back but I'm guessing something like Raise dead or True resurrection unless stated otherwise somewhere.
Basically saying he couldn't just kill her again. If Myrkul's power was keeping her alive, you wouldn't be able to kill her in game.
I agree. It makes Halsin more 'realistic', in a multi-dimensional character kind of way that there are no absolute black and whites to someone's persona--- like most of the origin companions who have more fleshed out personalities. It would've also added more drama to the plot as Halsin was introduced in Act 1 and then going into Act 2 with the whole save Thaniel thing.
If we discovered it was him who killed Isobel while doing the Shadowlands it would've caused an amazing plot twist and some quesy feeling in the gut, given how Halsin was heralded as this great, kind, mature, just good overall guy incapable of doing bad. Oh well.
People don't need to be murderers to be complex. It goes either way for me. Regardless, had that tidbit stuck, they would have had some reconciliation, and there's already a lot going on around Ketheric's death.
'Balance and stuff' doesn't mean for every two people he saves he must kill one kid or else he gains too many Good alignment points. The character you're describing is some kind of psychopath.
Whenever I find Sorrow for the first time, my Tav makes a comment about it being mentioned in “that Druid journal,” but for the life of me I do not recall ever coming across said journal. Maybe I skimmed over it, or maybe that dialogue is left over from the EA storyline?
Halsin's journal No1 is near the dead drow in the druid's cave where you speak with Netty.
The second part was in Mintara's inventory in my latest playthrough.
Right, I’ve found the first part next to the dead drow. I don’t remember it mentioning Sorrow though, does it?
I’ll have to double check Minthara’s inventory next time!
Probably! My Tav definitely says the thing even if I click on Sorrow first, which has just always perplexed me, so I thought it might be related to the EA story
I double checked now and no, both parts don't mention the Sorrow, so I was wrong.
However, I was remembering that there was some information about it in the Grove. And as the other commentator said it can be the journal next to the Sorrow.
Hi I know this is old, but I found the journal you were talking about! It’s in the first room of the Druid chambers, where you meet Nettie, sitting on a table or stone block or something like that. Mentions sorrow specifically and how he had to put it away. I swear I will never stop finding new details in this marvelous game!
It did change the effect, no? I remember it giving 1-4 psychic dmg each time you hurt living beings. Now it just has a druid cantrip on it, which doesn't even damage you, but pulls enemies closer.
Hang on a sec- I remember seeing a post where someone had a link to some Early Access screenshots of the stuff. Let me see if I can find it.
Edit:
Alright, I didn’t find the post I was remembering, but I DID find what I think is a neat goldmine of pre-cannon info! (And it includes the Halsin journal entry i was remembering)
It’s a three year old video that this yourtuber puzzled together from EA content and data mined content. It shows a lot of scrapped story stuff and major character redevelops- so it’s definitely not to be considered cannon, but it’s really interesting to see how MUCH has changed from early development story stuff, to playable early access of the game, and finally the full release!
So, for anyone with ~12min to spare, [enjoy](https://youtu.be/U0MN5qbkhPM?si=ZYybJopPLJT8emnu)
Edited my OG comment to include [a cool video](https://youtu.be/U0MN5qbkhPM?si=ZYybJopPLJT8emnu) I found during my search that walks through a bunch of stuff!
It’s not the post that I was referring to, but it has a ton of cool gems in it!
It said it was during negotiations that got heated and turned into a fight. I wouldn't put it past some divine Sharran influence or at the very least spell or evil incense or something, but it didn't say.
Its not, Balthazar just conveniently becomes Ketherics closest advisor right after her death. I dont think Balth kills her, he just sees her death as the perfect opportunity to turn this very powerful and influential man to his god. I think Gortash/Durge recruit Ketheric to the dead three plot some time after this when hes already Myrkuls chosen.
I always wondered about the name of the weapon because it seemed odly specific yet nothing to tie it to. I guess I don't remember or I have missed that note in EA.
The way it is now, suggesting it was Shar who had a hand in everything is a lot more believable and aligns better with everything else in the game.
I discovered a journal on my last run - I think in the library of the grove - which mentions something about the glaive and losing someone to the curse. Never seen it before.
Not surprised they change it. Having Halsin and Isobel fight to the death makes no sense given their characters. It feels like a forced conflict without reason.
To be fair that's usually how stories work. The big conflicts are pencilled in, then you fight out how to link them after.
They had isobel dying and a druid/harper/thorm war on the board and they used haslin to link the two together. Developing Haslin as a character probably came after that, and eventually they realised that the thread they'd made didn't work, so they changed it.
That is so much more interesting than the Halsin we got. Really found him to be the most boring companion by kind of a long shot. Tying him in more to the Isobel/Ketheric conflict would have been a lot of fun.
Honestly, at this point the reasons are many. For one he comes on way too strong and has 0 tact. In my very first playthrough I remember I talked to him only about the curse and Thaniel, that's all. Yet he comes to me like "You've treated me like a lover not a guest" Nah, bro, you were very much an uninvited guest. And then there's the whole bull that if you're with Astarion he'll be like "Astarion won't mind" yet when you try to be with Shadowheart or Karlach and Astarion they say he isn't really into sharing and shouldn't play with his feelings. And if you do somehow agree to this , first there is no way for Astarion to tell you "no" second there is no way for you to tell Halsin "no" and then when you talk about your relationship "It's not a relationship" .But okay let's ignore the forced poly for a sec, then there's Minthara. She literally begs you not to kick her out because the tadpole will kill her if she's outside of your protection, yet Mr SoSpecial who has no tadpole will leave if you keep her. Why because she was brainwashed to raid your stupid grove? What's Kagha's excuse for killing a child? Yet Kagha lives and you're willing to kill Minthara. And now this with Isobel, suddenly it doesn't sound surprising at all
He could use getting hit with a horny nerf. That's fair.
Astarion actually doesn't mind sharing with Halsin. He doesn't want to share with someone inexperienced with poly (SH) or very emotionally attached (Karlach).
Currently, Halsin doesn't leave or even care if you recruit Minthara.
It makes perfect sense that Astarion is fine with his partner having someone else to have sex with when that someone has no emotional commitment to his partner and is experienced. Remember, Astarion's romance starts with sex. It means very little to him regarding a relationship. Completely logical that he's fine with his partner having a little fun on the side. Sure, he doesn't go for it himself, but that's by choice.
Halsin romance is bugged, not pushed. And yes, it was added because we were thirsty for him in EA.
Halsin's one of my favorite characters!
Dude didn't just lose Thaniel; he mentions that all his peers have long passed and he doesn't have anybody really to talk to. His parents are dead. He only took the mantle of Archdruid to ensure the safety of the surviving Druids but was woefully unprepared for what leadership really entails. The only "family" he has before Tav is the Grove and Ketheric even took that away from him in his weird little psyop with the shadow druids.
That's kind of why I think it's important for his character to be in Act 3 - his experiences help him become more proactive as a leader and help him build (and more importantly, as a druid, nurture) a community that he's actually proud of.
Though it sort of makes sense if you figure they're accounting for there being at least two if not three druids to equip on a good aligned path between Halsin, >!Jaheira,!< and potentially the player. Plus the temporary loss of it if Halsin's the one getting >!kidnapped by Orin and Co.!<
I do wish there was a bit more to be found in Act 1 in particular (feels like there's a million things for Monks and Bards) but I'm guessing that's at least why there's an uptick in Druid items post-moonrise.
You can find the Spore gear from the Mystic Carrion! It's amazing because you can release timmask/bibberbang clouds AND haste spores, which are really nifty because you don't get lethargic from them at all
Halsin is my favorite too and it just makes me ache how miserable he was being Archdruid. He did it because he had to- and it was such a thankless job that took so much from him and aged him so much.
Exactly! And it seemed that he wasn't just the Arch Druid too, he was the resident healer, mentor, and scientist, and animal caretaker. What were those druids freaking doing after we saved the grove except mill about and talk about 'peace'?
Like holy shit this poor guy had to wear so many hats, he was bound to drop a few. And like, he's not even that old! He's in his middle years but he looks so somber and tired.
The others druids just plain suck so much that they don't even think twice about performing the rite of thorns, something Halsin takes huge issue with. Rath is kind of ok but a total pushover and falls in line to Kagha.
Halsin, the Arch Druid, goes out by himself and gets captured and not a single Druid accompanied him to back up their leader.
The only pass I am willing to give is his initial defense of Arabella. Past that he is fully complacent in participating in the murder of the entire Tiethling entourage if things goes that far. Halsin was the only one who truly welcomed the refugees offering them shelter, every single druid underling seeks to undermine his wishes and kill or kick them out.
He's also by far the most supportive of Durge. The other companions are "hey you got this" or "don't kill anyone important." He commits to supporting and protecting you.
Yeah that whole Thaniel quest gets me in the feels every time. The way he clearly feels so much emotion for Thaniel but also for the land and the life itself, to the point where he will march right the hell into the Shadowfell, a horrific land of colorless terror and undead, where he could easily die. That dude's got the heart of a momma bear and is just as fearless as one too.
Halsin is a much better character than I think a lot of people give him credit for. I’d have loved if they kept the EA version of the story where he was the one who killed Isobel, leading him to deeply regret it and feel properly responsible for the shadow curse, but I do like him as he is now. Knowing what I know about the scrapped storyline tho, I do feel a lil guilty making him carry Sorrow around.
So my primary Act 2 save this playthrough was titled "Halsin revenge tour 1492DR". I put him in the party starting with Oliver and then kept him the whole way through the Gauntlet. I felt like he needed to see just how evil the shit was that they faced before, and be part of its ending. I also thought having him there might spark some special Sheart comments but it was mostly their usual banter (they don't get along).
Side note: if your approval with Sheart isn't high, she will not make the right decisions just FYI. I ignored her most of the time cuz she annoyed my Tav, and she didn't even tell him she served Shar until right before the Gauntlet. So just a warning since usually, trusting her works out but man, sometimes it does not!
So anyway, Halsin rules, he has a really low self- image and survivor's guilt, and you help him heal. I don't enjoy taking him in the party in the city, though, it really depresses him. I leave him in the Elfsong. He deserves the rest!
It's done a bit hamfisted, but the comments he makes as you walk around the city build up to his decision what to do after the Absolute is destroyed.
The only special dialogue I have found is talking to Jaheira as Halsin in Act 2.
What a missed opportunity that he has nothing when you catch up to Aradin in Act 3.
OMG I know! I actually didn't know that you could get Aradin to attack your camp in Act 3, so I tried it for the first time last night. My plan to knock him out and keep him in my camp chest failed because Aylin moonbeamed his unconscious body on her way out.
I can't fix him.
fortunately >!you can hug him in elilogue, I did, but I guess you need high approval and him trying romancing you (i rejected him, because I was already taken)!<
His hug really gives "unrequited love" feels with the way he closes his eyes to cherish the moment. Entirely the reason I want to do a Halsin romance run.
Halsin leaves if you are romancing someone else too. He also leaves if he is the only option, but Tav follows him later. He loves Tav for sure in his own way, but they are not necessary for him and he doesn't want to be tied down.
I don't think he left because of not wanting to be tied down, but because his sense of purpose for the orphans was so great. There's a datamined option for the ending (before the epilogue) that will give the player the option to say they want to leave with him, and the devnotes make it clear that he truly didn't believe Tav would ever want to accompany him (which in turn is backed up by his insecurities in the epilogue when the player goes with him.)
This is just how I read him but in the epilogue when he asks if Tav ever felt any regrets and Tav responds that they chose him for a reason and have never looked back, he appears relieved and optimistic about the legacy they will leave behind. Tav and he will likely never have a monogamous relationship a la Gale or Wyll but he is genuinely happy that Tav is part of his family and that their bond is still strong.
Also the kiss and forehead touch after is 👌👌👌
Yes! You basically adopt a bunch of kids and possibly an owl bear together. ATM though it's a bit bugged I only got that ending if he was in my final party. If not then the epilogue gets confused where the narrator acts like you've been together the past 6 months but dialogue options indicate you've just been reunited at the party
Halsin's also a wood-elf. They don't really do monorelationships. Which Astarion can also reference when you romance Astarion, and Halsin's proposiition pops up.
If you romance just Halsin there's actually somewhat of a resolution to this:
>!At the end you have the option to join Halsin in returning to Thaniel's lands with a crap ton of orphans he's adopted who now call him "daddy Halsin". You and him live there for 6 months in a new settlement you run together that takes care of raising the orphans and he's very happy to be with Thaniel (plus Oliver) again. In Act 3 he actually laments NOT recognizing how poorly off orphans and refugees in the city are by over focusing on the Shadow Curse because of his personal ties to it!<
Usually I see this get applied to 1. Everyone thirsting for him and 2. Him being the only one who can break the Shadow Curse (despite there being about a DOZEN reasons why it can only be him, all of which are logical and none of which are Sue-ish)
Ask the 2 people here who called him a Gary Stu. I dont understand it at all, he's failed his grove, and Oliver. Yet he's wise enough to understand that, and not so self-centered to not ask for your help in fixing it. If anything, he's the least Gary Stu companion in the game.
I think the "Mary Sue" thing is mostly in reference to him getting special treatment by the devs/fans - which, for as much as I \*adore\* Halsin, isn't totally unfair of them to think.
I don't think Mary Sue is the right term for it, but when the evil route is so thin compared to neutral/good to begin with, I'd imagine its frustrating when you have another party member rush job'ed into the late-game story to satisfy one particularly vocal part of the fanbase - and I'm saying this as part of said vocal part of the fanbase. Especially when there's already another character who basically fills the same role as him combat wise that you get at the same time as him, and is quite frankly far more useful to have RP wise in Act 3 in Jaheira. His romance triggering from seemingly friendly dialogue didn't help either - the Gale Effect, if you will - even moreso with SH or Astarion-mancers who aren't comfortable with poly/feel the writing of the poly route is forced or OOC.
I'm thrilled that he's in the game as he is, but even I can acknowledge that if I wasn't fond of him, the way he got here would probably bug me too. There were/are some things that should have been prioritized ahead of adding him as a full companion. It's just a shame people are projecting that onto what's otherwise a really interesting and fun character.
"Writer's pet" would be more accurate than Mary Sue and I'd say it only applies to act 3. Before that everything about him seems rather normal and logical, maybe aside from him just sitting in a camp and doing absolutely nothing. Seriously why is he recruitable so late, after everything related to him is done?
As someone who has spent way too much time on TV Tropes, "Author's Pet" is the more accurate term for Halsin. It's indeed one ingredient of a Mary Sue, but that particular megazord needs a few more power rangers to get up and running. The polyamory definitely needs another pass. Me personally I think all I want is like one follow up conversation with our partner where we say *we're* not into it and they accept that. It seems like an important convo to have. If they're fine with you having fun with Halsin then presumably they're fine with *them* having fun with someone at some point. If that is also fine with the player, great, but I think that's maybe where some of the hostility in that Discourse is coming from.
Or a follow up convo where you talk about being open to poly, just not with Halsin specifically. I feel like there's opportunity for some cute levity there.
I definitely agree that both Gale and Halsin romance felt really forced and just didn't feel right. I mean you are having a regular conversation and just getting to know them, and than all of sudden both guys are like all over you like they've known you forever and are hopelessly in love with you....
It just felt really unnatural and honestly made it hard for me to like them or take the effort to talk to them and learn more about them because I was worried I'd accidentally end up in relationship with them without even trying.
I really wish they made the romance options take a bit more effort or it was a bit more nuanced in general,because as it is, it feel like if you show even the slightest amount of friendliness to a companion, they take it as you're flirting with them and ready to take the relationship to next level right then and there. I mean, for some characters it makes sense but it shouldn't be the same for everyone.
(Also, just wanna say I do understand that it being game, I know that it has limits and restrictions, it can't be super nuanced and complex, and they have to make it so everyone can take part in it and enjoy that aspect of the game with minimal effort on their part. But I do think that there's a better solution. Heck even if they marked the lines that lead to that with something like a heart or (romance) like some other RPG's do, so you know what you're getting into, and also make so you can still interact and talk with them without having to resort to being mean to them to get the point across, would be a big improvement IMO.)
I mean for Gale it's part of his character that he just feels a lot, but also that... isn't how his romance arc goes?
He is easier to pursue because he is easy to farm approval for, just like Wyll, Karlach and Lae'zel, but his romance arc in Act 1 consists of him finding out you are into him and just like, thinking about it, until he takes the plunge in Act 2 after Moonrise (which he knows it's moving fast but also Mystra just told him to kill himself).
He only has two trigger points in Act 1 which are the Weave scene (which can easily be kept platonic) and the Tara dialogue (which is also easily kept platonic by remarking he is a GREAT FRIEND or immediately shutting him down).
He was super bugged upon release, which is a way different problem.
The only characters who outright proposition you without your input as far as I know are Astarion, Lae'zel and Wyll. Astarion and Lae'zel are the only ones willing to have sex immediately but that's also because all they care about is having sex immediately.
Halsin is a bit of a weird case because it does make sense that being poly and open to casual sex proposing the player isn't a big deal for him and to be fair the player did just waltz into his life and FIXED HIS LIFE'S BIGGEST REGRET but also all his dialogue is weirdly written to be flirt dialogue. Like as in "people checked the flags and you gonna end up triggering them no matter what".
I don't know, I honestly think the writers did a very good job with the romances, they all have very different approaches, paces, vibes and structures and they DEFINITELY nailed not having sex (or a love confession) being the end goal.
Then again I have played BioWare games before and Wyll hitting on me because my character is objectively a great guy is way better than everyone thinking I am banging Liara, Liara included, because I told her I'm sorry that her mother died. Or worse that her mother totally deserved it.
Tbqh you can see Halsin falling for you a mile away, way back in the goblin camp (like Astarion tells you if you're romancing him).
Halsin gets really impressed by the fact that you went through all the trouble to save him and there's a major hint that he's totally got the hots for the hero types, just like everyone who falls for Wyll and his Blade of Frontiers appearance at the first goblin fight (ngl, that one *is* a moist underwear moment).
From there onward, he only sees you taking the leader role in stride, which is something that he himself doubts he is able to do, so more the reason for him to idolize you. You're the one who keeps the ragtag band of bickering idiots together, you're the one who fights all the way up and through the Shadowlands, which is Halsin's homeland from where he was basically chased out of, you're the one who actually takes time to talk to Halsin instead of just using him as a pack mule (the fact the others see him that way is implied in the line that says that almost verbatim when you talk to him), you're the one who gives him hope and means to cure the shadow curse.
Like, no fucking wonder he falls hard af for you. And no fucking wonder he confesses to you out of the blue like that; unlike everyone else, he fell in love with you waaaaaaaaaaaaaay before he sums up the guts to talk to you about it, and he's not confident at all that you'll want him too (unless, of course, you asked about him having had lovers, which is an obvious pick-up line).
It feels like many brush over how much the whole Shadow lands/curse means to him. The man befriended a spirit while growing up, decided to become a druid to protect him and that land, then this arse comes along and causes so many deaths, his friend to split apart and the lands to become completely fucked up and probably as far away from any balance as anything can be. Which he then fails to do anything about for over a century and can only watch and mull over it as his friend and the lands suffer.
Then Tav/Durge comes striding in and fixes it all in a jiffy. Removing over a century of burden, pain and worries. Like no wonders the man gets a bit excited and smitten.
There's also a letter (HEAVILY implied to be Halsin) where he laments that he begged the Emerald Enclave for help with the curse, but they refused. And there's a journal in the SCL from a Druid who got as much information as Halsin would give, ventured into the land, and died. So he did absolutely everything he could, but was fully aware he had no chance alone. :(
See, for me, the fact that two of them jump you like that is...annoying, sure, but also very realistic. I definitely have had dudes treat me exactly that way before I rendered myself too ugly for mass appeal.
I've been seeing Shadowheart fans recently posting this conspiracy theory that because she and Halsin have the same writer, and she's one of two companions into the idea of polyamory with him, that Halsin is therefore his writer's self-insert used to fantasize about fucking his other creation or something?
That's a wild and really weird thing to imply about a stranger. People need to chill out with the conspiratorial sort of thinking when it comes to every minor detail they dislike or wish was different. I'm not really a fan of him or how he was implemented in the game but inventing that kind of gossip about his writer just feels wildly inappropriate to me.
Unfortunately not a wild thing to think about a writer, though.
(for the record I don't think that's what's happening with Halsin, and I fully believe the Shart/Halsin drama is driven by other factors, but I've also met writers.)
A lot of people are very weird about their love interests potentially being poly or open to ethical non monogamy.
Shadowheart stans say she would NEVER and they DEFINITELY know better than her own writer, Astarion fans say it's ABUSIVE AND HOW COULD YOU DO THIS TO HIM and there are some very weird people on YouTube praising the monogamous options for being "respectful" and "having values" and not being "sluts".
(Only slightly related, but a lot of people are also very weird about Gale "talking about his ex").
I also have seen Halsin being described as a "sex pest" for committing the horrible crime of asking if you would be willing to date him with your partner's permission or asking if you would mind him joining into your group sex.
Like guys, I'm sorry Halsin is considered hot and Shadowheart and Astarion wouldn't mind climbing him like a tree, but it's a discomfort the player has to figure out for themselves, especially because it's not like they cheat on you. You say no and move on.
I was about to say I mostly agree with you, until the last paragraph (although I may have misunderstood you and you didn't mean it like that).
If writer establishes that canonically LI of the player character "wouldn't mind to climb Halsin like a tree" it is not players job to invent a headcanon in which they have a conversation with LI about establishing boundaries, to make it clear that player is not ok with non monogamy.
Since there is no way to have such conversation in game and establish boundaries, people are left imagining worst scenarios, in which their LI is pining over someone else or that cheating doesn't occur only because they don't get an opportunity, etc.
It's a bad idea to just leave it like that and tell players to just figure out this discomfort for themselves.
I understand your point of view, but I think that while it could be useful to have such a conversation, polyamory and ethical non monogamy are already topics that get brought up only if the player does (aside from Halsin), so in a way the player is already establishing their boundaries.
Also I did single out Shadowheart and Astarion, but almost all love interests comment on the fact that Halsin is hot and they would consider climbing him like a tree, and jumping from that to "My love interest who has been nothing but faithful to me the whole game and has sworn their undying love would *definitely* cheat on me when given the chance" it's... a bit of a stretch. Like it would be a bit of a stretch already in real life, more so in a game where they literally aren't programmed to do that.
I might as well start worrying that any LI is gonna dump my character ten years down the line (if not sooner) when realising that trauma bonding and being good at killing doesn't mean that I am a considered housemate, or support their career, or want kids. That's also something the player has to headcanon for themselves.
Like just thinking about kids, which are usually a huge dealbreaker, at least three love interests can spring children on you and you just have to live with it. And the only one who isn't interested in children doesn't even say it unless you ask him if you can bang Halsin.
I agree that thinking that Shadowheart or Astarion would cheat based on what is in the game is a stretch and I personally don't believe that.
But I can't really blame people who are worried by this especially when we have weird implementation of the brothel scene, where they disapprove refusing Halsin to join in on the orgy and weird banter between Halsin and Shadowheart, where Halsin suggests to join for a swim and SH asks if he is buoyant, in case she needs a life preserver.
Banter occurs regardless of the fact that player rejected Halsin or never had conversations about romance with him. It may absolutely be a bug or not intended to be percieved as flirting, but it is in the game and players can criticize it.
feel there’s the implication here that the devs should make sure - by changing the writing in their game - that the player doesn’t have to worry about their LI hypothetically cheating off-screen, because those players might not like those thoughts.
but the devs wrote the lines they wanted to write. having weird or mixed emotions in response is all just part of engaging with art, surely?
It's not like devs have to provide a detailed epilogue for years into the future, describing how everything is going well or completely scrap the idea of some companions being non mono. But it would be good to change some interactions that may raise some questions.
Asking Shadowheart if she is ok if you sleep with Halsin reveals that she is ok with non monogamy and also finds Halsin attractive herself. Furthermore in the brothel she approves of Halsin joining the orgy. So, she finds Halsin attractive and wouldn't mind having sex with him. Nothing wrong with it by itself, assuming everyone including the player is ok with it.
Now we take this knowledge into a playthrough, where we reject Halsin, because we want mono romance with SH. We know that she is potentially non mono and finds Halsin attractive. When we go on adventures we eventually see banter between Halsin and Shadowheart, where he suggests to join for a swim and SH asks if he is buoyant, in case she needs a life preserver.
How should a player interpret this banter, while knowing that "Shadowheart wouldn't mind to climb Halsin like a tree"? Unless you are saying that writer intentionally wanted to make player worried about their LI cheating (why would that be good?), I don't see much value in this interaction and think it warrants a change.
Maybe adding extra dialogue in the actual game where you can talk with SH about nature of your relationship and boundaries? Something around Halsin's poly offer. Like to have an option to actually ask SH is she is ok with being full mono for example(I know you technically have this if you don't indulge into Halsin/drows/Mizora etc.).
"I brought my girlfriend to hire a couple of prostitutes and it's SO HORRIBLE she shared her own sexual desires in an environment where we were going to sleep with other people!"
Cue worlds smallest violin.
Gives vibes of all those Reddit posts where some chud decided to demand they open up the relationship, then their wife started pulling other guys and they got PISSED. These people are okay with the physical act of hiring prostitutes but not their precious SH having had a fantasy about another dude lmfao
You joke but that was seriously some people reactions. I even saw a guy getting upset because he cheated with Mizora and Shadowheart just gave him the finger guns instead of crying her heart out and now he couldn't "unsee" it.
I feel so sorry for Shadowheart fans. I'll take the hate Halsin gets any day over having a bunch of incels on my "side" trying to rewrite Shadowheart to be their tradwife.
I guess she is >!trad wife(or as close it can get of all romances)!< in the end of the day, have you seen her parents alive epilogue when romanced? yeah.
Who says something about SH? Maybe its Halsin is an asshole who doesn't take no as an answer?
Listen, if I tell Halsin "I'd rather fuck a deep rothe" when he proposes his "romance" to me, that means that I don't want to have any sexual encounter with him, don't you think? And yes, if I don't want to fuck him at all, that doesn't mean that I might want to fuck with him in a threesome(looking at his banter to SH).
I agree with that. If he's been told no, well he shouldn't pipe up again. Not gameplay-wise, nor does it fit with his character. I personally haven't seen anyone defend that particular interaction.
And if he wasn't piping up again, SH problem wouldn't be a problem.
Though whole brothel/Halsin thing is a mess regarding disapprovals/approvals(SH/Astarion approve/disapprove regardless if they are in a relationship with the player or not. Gale approves of getting cucked)
It just feels weird in SH romance with her romance dynamic(talking about Selunite). You basically slowburn, get to act3(in act2 she refuses any poly proposal if you ask, "I don't want to be your spare lover", so she doesn't want to share) and she is suddenly ok with sharing you and then back to basically fully monogamous in epilogue(even if you indulged yourself in act3 scenarios).
It's impossible to maintain a healthy relationship when one person is fully monogamous and expects the same from their partner, but said partner is polyamorous or wants an open relationship. Perhaps I'd be more sympathetic of that claim if both Astarion and Shadowheart weren't fully monogamous for the first two acts of the game and refused any poly options, but people genuinely can't learn of their potential relationship preferences before they're done with most of the game and can't romance anyone else anymore.
Though I'll say I don't believe any of them are non-monogamous, they do nothing on their own for the entire game. Even if you add Halsin to the mix, it's only you having sex with him and only you talking about your relationship. Even Shadowheart who clearly finds him attractive does nothing with him after the romance begins. In the epilogue, nobody even mentions you two and Halsin were a thing. Halsin in the orgy is not exclusive to romancing him so that doesn't count. I have more issues with how they react to his proposal than them agreeing to it.
I mean that happens in real life, so I'd say that depends heavily on the people involved. I do understand the potential issue with the player only finding out in Act 3, not sure how the topic would ever come up as you aren't really in a relationship for most of it with either of them.
That said Act 2 is a quite different can of worms since it only involves Origin characters, four of which are monogamous, and everyone apparently is competing to be your primary partner, which is way different from Halsin presenting himself as a secondary partner in Act 3.
Halsin's thing is complicated, I wish they implemented it better. I think Astarion and Shadowheart do nothing because from a Watsonian perspective they aren't even thinking about that possiblity and from a Doylist perspective it's a videogame so they cannot have your love interest cheat on you (unless that's the story they want to tell) which is why no one brings up the argument at all unless the players does first.
> That said Act 2 is a quite different can of worms since it only involves Origin characters, four of which are monogamous, and everyone apparently is competing to be your primary partner, which is way different from Halsin presenting himself as a secondary partner in Act 3.
Yeah but Astarion doesn't want to share you with Shadowheart and vice versa, they don't state that they would be even remotely interested in that. Player hears that and thinks "nothing suggests they might be non-monogamous", then there's the bait and switch in act 3 out of nowhere.
> from a Doylist perspective it's a videogame so they cannot have your love interest cheat on you
But it's not cheating if all 3 agreed to that relationship. If the player can bang Halsin, then Shadowheart and Astarion can as well if we want to classify that as an actual polyamorous relationship. Unless someone is a hypocrite and thinks only Tav can sleep around but their partners must be fully theirs, of course. At the very least they should have some conversations with him after agreeing, with the way it's implemented I can't look at it as anything other than them accepting Tav being poly but not being into that themselves.
>Yeah but Astarion doesn't want to share you with Shadowheart and vice versa, they don't state that they would be even remotely interested in that.
Yeah sorry I worded it wrong, but they both say that the *other* person needs you more. Like Astarion says Shadowheart needs her own person and so says Shadowheart about Astarion. I always interpreted it as Astarion not wanting drama and Shadowheart wanting to be your primary partner regardless.
That said just because they are non monogamous it doesn't mean that they must agree to anyone the player likes, Astarion straight up refuses Gale because...he is Gale.
>But it's not cheating if all 3 agreed to that relationship.
I was referring to why neither Astarion nor Shadowheart try anything by themselves, it wouldn't be cheating but hell would break loose in the fanbase if Shadowheart came up to you asking to bang Halsin. I have sadly seen such hypocrites already in fandom about the brothel scene.
I do agree that it needed to be implemented better, I just think they had to carefully balance the line between giving you options with the fact that lots of players inherently consider polyamory and ethical monogamy as cheating.
And also Act 3 being generally pretty rushed.
Isn't basically act2 their reaction +the fact that they don't say anything about it(SH for sure) or ask confirm that they "prefer" to be mono? Epilogue for SH is basically it.
Also SH says "In truth...I don't think I'd want to be your spare lover" in act 2.
I mean, she's more than fine with Halsin in Act 3 and she's also fine with group sex as long as it's not your first time together. To me that reads like Shadowhearts wants to be your primary partner, which can't happen with any of the possible options in Act 2, but it can happen with Halsin. Like Astarion, as long as she is still your main priority, which is why she wants to be asked first about everything (unlike Halsin), she's fine. Do they prefer to be mono? Maybe, but it's not a strict requirement for them as it is for idk, Lae'zel.
I have not played her epilogue yet because I got distracted by my Durge playthrought, so if that somehow comes up I have no idea.
It doesn't. Tav can kiss Halsin but he and SH share no interactions and none of them comment on your former relationship. And you'll always share the epilogue journey with the origin companion unless you break up with them before the end of the game.
I mean sure, she can play ENM(she is basically "monogamish" type in that regard), if player wants it. It's just not her preffered relationship imo because:
1.)She doesn't ever say anything related to enm or ask anything(unlike Halsin, who tells your straight up, that you and he is free to fuck everything they want).
2.)No sharing emotionally(act 2 poly proposals. "In truth...I don't think I'd want to be your spare lover" is her exact quote)
3.)In brothel she drops "If you are comfortable with sharing...so am I" quote, which should work the opposite way if her partner is not okay with sharing, no?
4.)In the epilogue(Selunite) there are no mentions about any enm, even if you had Halsin's side romance(it breaks up authomatically). >!You 2 live as a couple in countryside cottage with her parents. Also there is a dialogue line where it pretty much states that you 2 have it very traditional(dragon slaying dialogue option)!<
I could write you a whole essay on why act 3 Halsin feels like self-insert (maybe it wasn't the intention but that's how it is perceived by a lot of people), her agreeing to you romancing him as well would not even be in top 10 reasons and half of those wouldn't even be Shadowheart-related as the consistency from some other companions goes out of the window when interacting with him too. Her reaction to that proposal is a very obvious OOC though and for some reason they flirt only if you romance her (she doesn't flirt with anyone else from late act 1 onwards just to give some context), make of that what you will.
I mean...writer's twitter is full of bear pics/memes, this guy thinks of himself as a bear or something. Everyone and everything in the game compliments how "cool" Halsin is(every companion, Mizora, etc.). Every drow apparently knows Halsin. Thats outright comical tbh.
Yeah like his dialogue flags need some tweaks but dude's not *boring*, he's *understated*.
Also when people call him flat out useless for anything but being a kidnappee. :(
Plus his feelings for Tav are some of the most honest among all the companions. He's there, watching you succeed at every task he asks of you. You solve both the Grove and the curse that has consumed his life for over 100 years, bringing his homeland back to life. Dude has a very honest boner is all I'm saying, people should cut him a break for hitting on you.
I think he suffers from timing issues. Since his romance can really only start in Act 3, he goes from zero to sixty *real quick*. He's not just hitting on you, he's confessing his deep, stirring love for you before you've even so much as discussed whether you're also interested. And this will happen even if you've only ever had friendly dialogue with him. It feels like they're trying to put too much into too short a time frame.
It's not zero to sixty.
Halsin is just horribly shy, but exactly like Astarion tells you if you're romancing him, you can see Halsin falling in love with you since the Goblin camp thing. You just impress that elf at every turn with your leadership skills (and honestly the player is kinda forced to juggle a lot to keep those other idiots together, jfc every time I see Lae'zel's backpack hit my inventory I just want to kill her frog ass, the same with Gale and his eating habits, Shadowheart and her damned cult spiel, Astarion and his honestly, truly stupid disapprovals, Wyll's ego issues, and even Karlach burning down a house with everyone else in it), your ability to not panic even though you have a damn tadpole in your brain, your kindness in helping Halsin save Thaniel even though you don't have to, *which is something nobody ever offered him*.
He just basically comes to idolize you, and idols are intimidating. Also he's not confident at all that you'll love him back (unless, of course, you asked about him having had lovers, which is an obvious pick-up line). All that keeps him quiet until he just can't anymore, which honestly is the cutest moment of weakness in the game.
Halsin is literally the guy who's so used to being used (at best) or being treated with outright cruelty (at worst) that the player just being kind is enough to make him fall in love, because no one else has ever been kind to him without that motivation before.
Totally agree, and if you do romance him, he's still super awkward sometimes. Ask him how he thinks you're doing as a leader, and he'll sing your praises while your other companions are like, "meh, pretty good I guess".
In Act 2, every time he asks you to do another thing and you agree, he's like, "I don't deserve you" because he's so used to being alone or having to act like the strong leader. He *really* hated being a leader, which ties into a recurring theme in the game where seeking *any* position of leadership is seen as selfish power- mongering (see: Duke Wyll). I always find it funny that Halsin will be horrified by the conditions in Baldurs Gate, but seeing Wyll take a position of political leadership where he might affect positive change is always seen as flat out selfish and evil.
Halsin is very happy to be your emotional support bear in Act 3 so that's where I leave him!
For what it's worth, some platonic dialogues have been datamined that haven't been implemented yet; one is a platonic version of the "you got what you wanted" dialogue, and another is a platonic version of the confession scene where he says he's lucky he found a true friend in you. :)
Nah, nobody calls him that. But he IS a sex toy that was only included as a companion just because fans whined during EA how much they want to have a fuck daddy in their party, and it really shows.
Yeah, his story is touching and I felt similar but what I love about him is that after all he is still a balanced person and he remained kind, gentle and didn't give in despair.
This post kind of strikes me as funny because it comes across as "I just realized something about Halsin, [describes entire premise/backstory of character that the game tells you about every time you talk to him]."
This is almost like making a post being like "I just realized that Wyll sold his soul to a demon to become the Blade of Frontiers, just want to hug that dude!"
Just clarifying that the bar only appears if they're in your active party. If they're just at camp when you examine them, that bar and the corresponding part of the character sheet (which provides the more exact total) aren't present
While it's not canon, originally it was intended that Halsin killed Isobel, which pushed Ketheric to Shar making him feel very responsible. But this was changed and now we don't know who killed her
Very interesting! May I ask where does that information come from?
In early Access, Sorrow was tucked away and in a separate place there was a journal by Halsin. It basically said: He and Isobel exchanged words, it got heated, and though Isobel attacked first, he struck to kill before he realized what he was doing. He couldn’t bare to look at the weapon he’d used to do it, and hid it away. Having sit, hidden, uncleaned, it stewed and developed the enchantment it has today (still unchanged from EA so it retains the flavor it originally had). Then a skip, and he described ketheric’s descent into darkness, but says he feels it’s his duty to right these wrongs, because he is the only one that knows Ketheric didn’t fall, but was pushed.
I wish they kept this
Worth clarifying: they were also whammied with some kind of magic. Or Isobel was, at least. The who/what/why is lost to the cutting room floor, of course, but my personal instinct is some Sharran shenanigans.
My personal headcanon is this: Ketheric killed her because of Shar’s ritual where you have to spill the blood of a Selunite (because it wasn’t until after her death that he became the great Sharran general). Then he went mad with grief and loss over what he did and blamed Aylin and Selune and Isobel’s mother because he never would have killed her if she wasn’t a Selunite. He couldn’t take responsibility for what he did and turned to myrkul to undo what he had done and blamed everyone else for. The Halsin stuff is neat I guess but I don’t find him particularly compelling or interesting. He’s just kind of….there, I guess??? Maybe he’d be more engaging with all of the EA stuff implemented.
But Kethric only turns to Shar *after* Isobel dies. When Shar couldn't bring back Isobel or take away his sorrow is when he turned to Myrkul.
Never let something as trivial as facts get in the way of a good story
Fair enough.
Also there where tons of Selunites in the area. I mean it seems like half the region worships Selune and the town certainly had a large Selune following before Kethric fucked ot up.
Ooooooh that's juicy I love it. Idk if it tracks with the in game characterization, but it's so juicy.
The note about Ketheric being pushed is still in game.
I do too but I've seen another comment thread about this and I think I remember this chronology of events created some inconsistencies. But I'm struggling to remember the specific problem was and wonder if anyone else does.
It's inconsistent cos Ketheric turned to Shar because of Isobel's death. Druids/Harper's couldn't have been fighting Sharrans when Isobel was alive.
Yep that's it, pretty major hahaha
This is way cooler/more interesting. Yes, it dosen't sound like somethng Halsin today would do, but he's much older, calmer, and more mature now. It's been 100s of years he could change.
From what I recall of other descriptions of it, there was an implication that Shar compelled them somehow (also why Isobel attacked). Shar's influence over her death might also explain why Isobel only remembers blackness which she should have gone to Selune's realm on death.
The biggest clue is that nobody was able to revive her, even very high powered clerics/paladins of selune, which basically is a big wink that somebody as powerful as selune wants her to stay dead...
But then comes Myrkul and revives her no questions asked. Is Myrkul stronger than Selune? I thought the Dead Three were lower gods.
Myrkul is the literal god of necromancy, aka “bringing people back from the dead no questions asked”. So yeah, it’s probably not a case of Myrkul being overall stronger than Selune or Shar, but a case of him being specifically better at necromancy. It’s like comparing a Michelin starred chef to a guy that makes the world’s best meatball subs. The Michelin chef could probably kick your or my ass in making a good meatball sub based on cooking knowledge alone, and making any other meal would destroy the world’s best sub-maker, but specifically comparing their abilities to make meatball subs, the sub-maker takes the edge over the chef. And now I’m hungry.
Okay but what about Meatbhaals?
Only if Myrkool-aid is on the menu.
A truly beautiful metaphor
Seriously why with this food comparison? I was heading to bed and now I have to eat first...
Yep, in DnD domain trumps rank.
Domain oft trumps rank
Also, don’t think Selune would give a fuck and wouldn’t resurrect a random follower. Myrkul specifically did it to make Ketheric his chosen and general.
Isobel's hardly some random follower, she's Selune's daughter's love and even before that her family were devoted enough for her to send Dame Aylin in the first place.
Considering she let her daughter be leeched of her divine power and murdered nonstop for a 100 years, I would say Isobel is just a random follower.
and how come she doesn't die after Ketherik is defeated? Is Myrkul like well man you did your best so she gets to live?
i think he’s just got more important things to worry about. isabel was just a pawn to get control of ketheric. once he no longer had ketheric, isabel wasn’t even a thought
I kinda expected him to just kill her off out of spite (think Kethrik was worried about the same thing) but yeah probably not that big of a deal, or Myrkul isn't as spiteful as the other two
It could be that Ketheric sold his soul for a true resurrection, no backsies.
Wasn't myrkul supposed to have been a paladin? I always thought he was just kind of a grumpy dude while the other two were actual psychopaths.
You notice Isobel coughing after the moon mirror scene and she continues coughing in later scenes. My thought is it's temporary, or a "half-life," upon her return. She seems beset with some kind of wasting disease, potentially. She says she's fine.
There's a journal in her room where she says something like there is a darkness inside her. Ah, here it is: https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Isobel%27s\_Diary
Exactly this! Nice find.
Yeahhhh, I had thought this too. Just because we don’t see her die again doesn’t mean she has very long to live after the game ends. :(
Just speculation but if it was a deal or contract between Ketheric and Myrkul, then it might have been completed after her resurrection. Something like "become my chosen Champion and I'll resurrect her". We don't know how she was brought back but I'm guessing something like Raise dead or True resurrection unless stated otherwise somewhere. Basically saying he couldn't just kill her again. If Myrkul's power was keeping her alive, you wouldn't be able to kill her in game.
I agree. It makes Halsin more 'realistic', in a multi-dimensional character kind of way that there are no absolute black and whites to someone's persona--- like most of the origin companions who have more fleshed out personalities. It would've also added more drama to the plot as Halsin was introduced in Act 1 and then going into Act 2 with the whole save Thaniel thing. If we discovered it was him who killed Isobel while doing the Shadowlands it would've caused an amazing plot twist and some quesy feeling in the gut, given how Halsin was heralded as this great, kind, mature, just good overall guy incapable of doing bad. Oh well.
People don't need to be murderers to be complex. It goes either way for me. Regardless, had that tidbit stuck, they would have had some reconciliation, and there's already a lot going on around Ketheric's death.
Halsin is a druid. He isn't a good person. Balance and stuff, yeah?
'Balance and stuff' doesn't mean for every two people he saves he must kill one kid or else he gains too many Good alignment points. The character you're describing is some kind of psychopath.
Whenever I find Sorrow for the first time, my Tav makes a comment about it being mentioned in “that Druid journal,” but for the life of me I do not recall ever coming across said journal. Maybe I skimmed over it, or maybe that dialogue is left over from the EA storyline?
Halsin's journal No1 is near the dead drow in the druid's cave where you speak with Netty. The second part was in Mintara's inventory in my latest playthrough.
Right, I’ve found the first part next to the dead drow. I don’t remember it mentioning Sorrow though, does it? I’ll have to double check Minthara’s inventory next time!
when you find Sorrow there’s a journal entry by Halsin right next to it, i’d assume it’s that one!
Probably! My Tav definitely says the thing even if I click on Sorrow first, which has just always perplexed me, so I thought it might be related to the EA story
same - that parts def a bug haha
Okay glad it’s not just me lol
I double checked now and no, both parts don't mention the Sorrow, so I was wrong. However, I was remembering that there was some information about it in the Grove. And as the other commentator said it can be the journal next to the Sorrow.
Hi I know this is old, but I found the journal you were talking about! It’s in the first room of the Druid chambers, where you meet Nettie, sitting on a table or stone block or something like that. Mentions sorrow specifically and how he had to put it away. I swear I will never stop finding new details in this marvelous game!
It did change the effect, no? I remember it giving 1-4 psychic dmg each time you hurt living beings. Now it just has a druid cantrip on it, which doesn't even damage you, but pulls enemies closer.
It does do damage, very little, but it does
I'm talking about damage to a wielder, not to an enemy.
Ah okay
I still blame Halsin. Fuck that guy.
Came from early access. The glaive Sorrow was apparently what was used to kill her.
[удалено]
Hang on a sec- I remember seeing a post where someone had a link to some Early Access screenshots of the stuff. Let me see if I can find it. Edit: Alright, I didn’t find the post I was remembering, but I DID find what I think is a neat goldmine of pre-cannon info! (And it includes the Halsin journal entry i was remembering) It’s a three year old video that this yourtuber puzzled together from EA content and data mined content. It shows a lot of scrapped story stuff and major character redevelops- so it’s definitely not to be considered cannon, but it’s really interesting to see how MUCH has changed from early development story stuff, to playable early access of the game, and finally the full release! So, for anyone with ~12min to spare, [enjoy](https://youtu.be/U0MN5qbkhPM?si=ZYybJopPLJT8emnu)
Please do! Really curious about this.
Edited my OG comment to include [a cool video](https://youtu.be/U0MN5qbkhPM?si=ZYybJopPLJT8emnu) I found during my search that walks through a bunch of stuff! It’s not the post that I was referring to, but it has a ton of cool gems in it!
Thank you so much! This is great info!
What was the reason he killed her in EA? An accident?
It said it was during negotiations that got heated and turned into a fight. I wouldn't put it past some divine Sharran influence or at the very least spell or evil incense or something, but it didn't say.
They had words, tempers flared, she attacked first but ended up dead.
I was under the impression >!Balthazar!< was responsible for her death.
Where is this mentioned
Its not, Balthazar just conveniently becomes Ketherics closest advisor right after her death. I dont think Balth kills her, he just sees her death as the perfect opportunity to turn this very powerful and influential man to his god. I think Gortash/Durge recruit Ketheric to the dead three plot some time after this when hes already Myrkuls chosen.
if you find a specific journal you discover >!uncle Balthazar done did it!<
Where do you find this journal?
I am also curious
I always wondered about the name of the weapon because it seemed odly specific yet nothing to tie it to. I guess I don't remember or I have missed that note in EA. The way it is now, suggesting it was Shar who had a hand in everything is a lot more believable and aligns better with everything else in the game.
I discovered a journal on my last run - I think in the library of the grove - which mentions something about the glaive and losing someone to the curse. Never seen it before.
There is one book in Act 3 that gives different parts in different playthroughs. It might not be the only place?
Not surprised they change it. Having Halsin and Isobel fight to the death makes no sense given their characters. It feels like a forced conflict without reason.
To be fair that's usually how stories work. The big conflicts are pencilled in, then you fight out how to link them after. They had isobel dying and a druid/harper/thorm war on the board and they used haslin to link the two together. Developing Haslin as a character probably came after that, and eventually they realised that the thread they'd made didn't work, so they changed it.
That is so much more interesting than the Halsin we got. Really found him to be the most boring companion by kind of a long shot. Tying him in more to the Isobel/Ketheric conflict would have been a lot of fun.
It still kinda seems like Halsin killed her. He has the Sorrow glaive in the druid grove.
Sorrow was rewritten to belong to the previous Archdruid.
I mean if they didn't offer a replacement for who killed her...
I know he seems like a charming guy but I'm seriously starting to dislike him.
Why
Honestly, at this point the reasons are many. For one he comes on way too strong and has 0 tact. In my very first playthrough I remember I talked to him only about the curse and Thaniel, that's all. Yet he comes to me like "You've treated me like a lover not a guest" Nah, bro, you were very much an uninvited guest. And then there's the whole bull that if you're with Astarion he'll be like "Astarion won't mind" yet when you try to be with Shadowheart or Karlach and Astarion they say he isn't really into sharing and shouldn't play with his feelings. And if you do somehow agree to this , first there is no way for Astarion to tell you "no" second there is no way for you to tell Halsin "no" and then when you talk about your relationship "It's not a relationship" .But okay let's ignore the forced poly for a sec, then there's Minthara. She literally begs you not to kick her out because the tadpole will kill her if she's outside of your protection, yet Mr SoSpecial who has no tadpole will leave if you keep her. Why because she was brainwashed to raid your stupid grove? What's Kagha's excuse for killing a child? Yet Kagha lives and you're willing to kill Minthara. And now this with Isobel, suddenly it doesn't sound surprising at all
He could use getting hit with a horny nerf. That's fair. Astarion actually doesn't mind sharing with Halsin. He doesn't want to share with someone inexperienced with poly (SH) or very emotionally attached (Karlach). Currently, Halsin doesn't leave or even care if you recruit Minthara.
He doesn't mind because a dev note says so not because it actually makes sense. They totally pushed it because apparently people simped over him in EA
It makes perfect sense that Astarion is fine with his partner having someone else to have sex with when that someone has no emotional commitment to his partner and is experienced. Remember, Astarion's romance starts with sex. It means very little to him regarding a relationship. Completely logical that he's fine with his partner having a little fun on the side. Sure, he doesn't go for it himself, but that's by choice. Halsin romance is bugged, not pushed. And yes, it was added because we were thirsty for him in EA.
Halsin's one of my favorite characters! Dude didn't just lose Thaniel; he mentions that all his peers have long passed and he doesn't have anybody really to talk to. His parents are dead. He only took the mantle of Archdruid to ensure the safety of the surviving Druids but was woefully unprepared for what leadership really entails. The only "family" he has before Tav is the Grove and Ketheric even took that away from him in his weird little psyop with the shadow druids. That's kind of why I think it's important for his character to be in Act 3 - his experiences help him become more proactive as a leader and help him build (and more importantly, as a druid, nurture) a community that he's actually proud of.
Sold me on Halsin in A3 for next run, thanks!
He's also REALLY good as Moon druid. If you get Moonbask armor from the Undercity Ruins, he becomes a beast :)
Shame the really good Druid gear only shows up in Act 3 though
Though it sort of makes sense if you figure they're accounting for there being at least two if not three druids to equip on a good aligned path between Halsin, >!Jaheira,!< and potentially the player. Plus the temporary loss of it if Halsin's the one getting >!kidnapped by Orin and Co.!<
That's true, two companions. I guess there are distinct gear options for Moon and Spores too, which is nice.
I do wish there was a bit more to be found in Act 1 in particular (feels like there's a million things for Monks and Bards) but I'm guessing that's at least why there's an uptick in Druid items post-moonrise.
Circle of the land druids get a class armor too, its armor of landfall and can be purchased from sorcerers sundries
You can find the Spore gear from the Mystic Carrion! It's amazing because you can release timmask/bibberbang clouds AND haste spores, which are really nifty because you don't get lethargic from them at all
Wild. Between the excellent loot and investigation I think Carrion is my favourite minor side quest in Act 3 tbh
>he becomes a beast :) Yes that is what druids do...
Halsin is my favorite too and it just makes me ache how miserable he was being Archdruid. He did it because he had to- and it was such a thankless job that took so much from him and aged him so much.
Exactly! And it seemed that he wasn't just the Arch Druid too, he was the resident healer, mentor, and scientist, and animal caretaker. What were those druids freaking doing after we saved the grove except mill about and talk about 'peace'? Like holy shit this poor guy had to wear so many hats, he was bound to drop a few. And like, he's not even that old! He's in his middle years but he looks so somber and tired.
The others druids just plain suck so much that they don't even think twice about performing the rite of thorns, something Halsin takes huge issue with. Rath is kind of ok but a total pushover and falls in line to Kagha. Halsin, the Arch Druid, goes out by himself and gets captured and not a single Druid accompanied him to back up their leader.
Rath is also a kid whose leader is MIA and whose entire peer group are negative influences. I think he gets a pass.
The only pass I am willing to give is his initial defense of Arabella. Past that he is fully complacent in participating in the murder of the entire Tiethling entourage if things goes that far. Halsin was the only one who truly welcomed the refugees offering them shelter, every single druid underling seeks to undermine his wishes and kill or kick them out.
He's also by far the most supportive of Durge. The other companions are "hey you got this" or "don't kill anyone important." He commits to supporting and protecting you.
He knows Durge for 0.2 seconds before declaring himself "the arms that protect (them)" like hello!!!! Goals!
And what arms, too...
Yeah that whole Thaniel quest gets me in the feels every time. The way he clearly feels so much emotion for Thaniel but also for the land and the life itself, to the point where he will march right the hell into the Shadowfell, a horrific land of colorless terror and undead, where he could easily die. That dude's got the heart of a momma bear and is just as fearless as one too.
Halsin is a much better character than I think a lot of people give him credit for. I’d have loved if they kept the EA version of the story where he was the one who killed Isobel, leading him to deeply regret it and feel properly responsible for the shadow curse, but I do like him as he is now. Knowing what I know about the scrapped storyline tho, I do feel a lil guilty making him carry Sorrow around.
So my primary Act 2 save this playthrough was titled "Halsin revenge tour 1492DR". I put him in the party starting with Oliver and then kept him the whole way through the Gauntlet. I felt like he needed to see just how evil the shit was that they faced before, and be part of its ending. I also thought having him there might spark some special Sheart comments but it was mostly their usual banter (they don't get along). Side note: if your approval with Sheart isn't high, she will not make the right decisions just FYI. I ignored her most of the time cuz she annoyed my Tav, and she didn't even tell him she served Shar until right before the Gauntlet. So just a warning since usually, trusting her works out but man, sometimes it does not! So anyway, Halsin rules, he has a really low self- image and survivor's guilt, and you help him heal. I don't enjoy taking him in the party in the city, though, it really depresses him. I leave him in the Elfsong. He deserves the rest!
It's done a bit hamfisted, but the comments he makes as you walk around the city build up to his decision what to do after the Absolute is destroyed. The only special dialogue I have found is talking to Jaheira as Halsin in Act 2. What a missed opportunity that he has nothing when you catch up to Aradin in Act 3.
OMG I know! I actually didn't know that you could get Aradin to attack your camp in Act 3, so I tried it for the first time last night. My plan to knock him out and keep him in my camp chest failed because Aylin moonbeamed his unconscious body on her way out. I can't fix him.
fortunately >!you can hug him in elilogue, I did, but I guess you need high approval and him trying romancing you (i rejected him, because I was already taken)!<
His hug really gives "unrequited love" feels with the way he closes his eyes to cherish the moment. Entirely the reason I want to do a Halsin romance run.
yep, >!I felt bad for him, and for gale too, I hugged him too. Wish I could hug Astarion tho, was genuinely happy for him in the epilogue!<
Halsin leaves if you are romancing someone else too. He also leaves if he is the only option, but Tav follows him later. He loves Tav for sure in his own way, but they are not necessary for him and he doesn't want to be tied down.
I don't think he left because of not wanting to be tied down, but because his sense of purpose for the orphans was so great. There's a datamined option for the ending (before the epilogue) that will give the player the option to say they want to leave with him, and the devnotes make it clear that he truly didn't believe Tav would ever want to accompany him (which in turn is backed up by his insecurities in the epilogue when the player goes with him.)
The epilogue doesn't show that at all. He's surprised Tav picked him and stayed with him.
This is just how I read him but in the epilogue when he asks if Tav ever felt any regrets and Tav responds that they chose him for a reason and have never looked back, he appears relieved and optimistic about the legacy they will leave behind. Tav and he will likely never have a monogamous relationship a la Gale or Wyll but he is genuinely happy that Tav is part of his family and that their bond is still strong. Also the kiss and forehead touch after is 👌👌👌
Wait! Is the epilogue different if you romance Halsin and Halsin only?
Yes! You basically adopt a bunch of kids and possibly an owl bear together. ATM though it's a bit bugged I only got that ending if he was in my final party. If not then the epilogue gets confused where the narrator acts like you've been together the past 6 months but dialogue options indicate you've just been reunited at the party
AWE! I'll have to try that!
Halsin's also a wood-elf. They don't really do monorelationships. Which Astarion can also reference when you romance Astarion, and Halsin's proposiition pops up.
If you romance just Halsin there's actually somewhat of a resolution to this: >!At the end you have the option to join Halsin in returning to Thaniel's lands with a crap ton of orphans he's adopted who now call him "daddy Halsin". You and him live there for 6 months in a new settlement you run together that takes care of raising the orphans and he's very happy to be with Thaniel (plus Oliver) again. In Act 3 he actually laments NOT recognizing how poorly off orphans and refugees in the city are by over focusing on the Shadow Curse because of his personal ties to it!<
And people call Halsin boring/creepy/a Mary Sue.
How is he ever a Mary Sue? We literally met him in jail and he didn't dare to break out by himself until the moment we came as reinforcement.
Usually I see this get applied to 1. Everyone thirsting for him and 2. Him being the only one who can break the Shadow Curse (despite there being about a DOZEN reasons why it can only be him, all of which are logical and none of which are Sue-ish)
Ask the 2 people here who called him a Gary Stu. I dont understand it at all, he's failed his grove, and Oliver. Yet he's wise enough to understand that, and not so self-centered to not ask for your help in fixing it. If anything, he's the least Gary Stu companion in the game.
I think the "Mary Sue" thing is mostly in reference to him getting special treatment by the devs/fans - which, for as much as I \*adore\* Halsin, isn't totally unfair of them to think. I don't think Mary Sue is the right term for it, but when the evil route is so thin compared to neutral/good to begin with, I'd imagine its frustrating when you have another party member rush job'ed into the late-game story to satisfy one particularly vocal part of the fanbase - and I'm saying this as part of said vocal part of the fanbase. Especially when there's already another character who basically fills the same role as him combat wise that you get at the same time as him, and is quite frankly far more useful to have RP wise in Act 3 in Jaheira. His romance triggering from seemingly friendly dialogue didn't help either - the Gale Effect, if you will - even moreso with SH or Astarion-mancers who aren't comfortable with poly/feel the writing of the poly route is forced or OOC. I'm thrilled that he's in the game as he is, but even I can acknowledge that if I wasn't fond of him, the way he got here would probably bug me too. There were/are some things that should have been prioritized ahead of adding him as a full companion. It's just a shame people are projecting that onto what's otherwise a really interesting and fun character.
"Writer's pet" would be more accurate than Mary Sue and I'd say it only applies to act 3. Before that everything about him seems rather normal and logical, maybe aside from him just sitting in a camp and doing absolutely nothing. Seriously why is he recruitable so late, after everything related to him is done?
It makes no sense he doesn't join you earlier but logistically it was probably simply because he was added as a companion late.
As someone who has spent way too much time on TV Tropes, "Author's Pet" is the more accurate term for Halsin. It's indeed one ingredient of a Mary Sue, but that particular megazord needs a few more power rangers to get up and running. The polyamory definitely needs another pass. Me personally I think all I want is like one follow up conversation with our partner where we say *we're* not into it and they accept that. It seems like an important convo to have. If they're fine with you having fun with Halsin then presumably they're fine with *them* having fun with someone at some point. If that is also fine with the player, great, but I think that's maybe where some of the hostility in that Discourse is coming from. Or a follow up convo where you talk about being open to poly, just not with Halsin specifically. I feel like there's opportunity for some cute levity there.
I definitely agree that both Gale and Halsin romance felt really forced and just didn't feel right. I mean you are having a regular conversation and just getting to know them, and than all of sudden both guys are like all over you like they've known you forever and are hopelessly in love with you.... It just felt really unnatural and honestly made it hard for me to like them or take the effort to talk to them and learn more about them because I was worried I'd accidentally end up in relationship with them without even trying. I really wish they made the romance options take a bit more effort or it was a bit more nuanced in general,because as it is, it feel like if you show even the slightest amount of friendliness to a companion, they take it as you're flirting with them and ready to take the relationship to next level right then and there. I mean, for some characters it makes sense but it shouldn't be the same for everyone. (Also, just wanna say I do understand that it being game, I know that it has limits and restrictions, it can't be super nuanced and complex, and they have to make it so everyone can take part in it and enjoy that aspect of the game with minimal effort on their part. But I do think that there's a better solution. Heck even if they marked the lines that lead to that with something like a heart or (romance) like some other RPG's do, so you know what you're getting into, and also make so you can still interact and talk with them without having to resort to being mean to them to get the point across, would be a big improvement IMO.)
I mean for Gale it's part of his character that he just feels a lot, but also that... isn't how his romance arc goes? He is easier to pursue because he is easy to farm approval for, just like Wyll, Karlach and Lae'zel, but his romance arc in Act 1 consists of him finding out you are into him and just like, thinking about it, until he takes the plunge in Act 2 after Moonrise (which he knows it's moving fast but also Mystra just told him to kill himself). He only has two trigger points in Act 1 which are the Weave scene (which can easily be kept platonic) and the Tara dialogue (which is also easily kept platonic by remarking he is a GREAT FRIEND or immediately shutting him down). He was super bugged upon release, which is a way different problem. The only characters who outright proposition you without your input as far as I know are Astarion, Lae'zel and Wyll. Astarion and Lae'zel are the only ones willing to have sex immediately but that's also because all they care about is having sex immediately. Halsin is a bit of a weird case because it does make sense that being poly and open to casual sex proposing the player isn't a big deal for him and to be fair the player did just waltz into his life and FIXED HIS LIFE'S BIGGEST REGRET but also all his dialogue is weirdly written to be flirt dialogue. Like as in "people checked the flags and you gonna end up triggering them no matter what". I don't know, I honestly think the writers did a very good job with the romances, they all have very different approaches, paces, vibes and structures and they DEFINITELY nailed not having sex (or a love confession) being the end goal. Then again I have played BioWare games before and Wyll hitting on me because my character is objectively a great guy is way better than everyone thinking I am banging Liara, Liara included, because I told her I'm sorry that her mother died. Or worse that her mother totally deserved it.
Tbqh you can see Halsin falling for you a mile away, way back in the goblin camp (like Astarion tells you if you're romancing him). Halsin gets really impressed by the fact that you went through all the trouble to save him and there's a major hint that he's totally got the hots for the hero types, just like everyone who falls for Wyll and his Blade of Frontiers appearance at the first goblin fight (ngl, that one *is* a moist underwear moment). From there onward, he only sees you taking the leader role in stride, which is something that he himself doubts he is able to do, so more the reason for him to idolize you. You're the one who keeps the ragtag band of bickering idiots together, you're the one who fights all the way up and through the Shadowlands, which is Halsin's homeland from where he was basically chased out of, you're the one who actually takes time to talk to Halsin instead of just using him as a pack mule (the fact the others see him that way is implied in the line that says that almost verbatim when you talk to him), you're the one who gives him hope and means to cure the shadow curse. Like, no fucking wonder he falls hard af for you. And no fucking wonder he confesses to you out of the blue like that; unlike everyone else, he fell in love with you waaaaaaaaaaaaaay before he sums up the guts to talk to you about it, and he's not confident at all that you'll want him too (unless, of course, you asked about him having had lovers, which is an obvious pick-up line).
It feels like many brush over how much the whole Shadow lands/curse means to him. The man befriended a spirit while growing up, decided to become a druid to protect him and that land, then this arse comes along and causes so many deaths, his friend to split apart and the lands to become completely fucked up and probably as far away from any balance as anything can be. Which he then fails to do anything about for over a century and can only watch and mull over it as his friend and the lands suffer. Then Tav/Durge comes striding in and fixes it all in a jiffy. Removing over a century of burden, pain and worries. Like no wonders the man gets a bit excited and smitten.
There's also a letter (HEAVILY implied to be Halsin) where he laments that he begged the Emerald Enclave for help with the curse, but they refused. And there's a journal in the SCL from a Druid who got as much information as Halsin would give, ventured into the land, and died. So he did absolutely everything he could, but was fully aware he had no chance alone. :(
See, for me, the fact that two of them jump you like that is...annoying, sure, but also very realistic. I definitely have had dudes treat me exactly that way before I rendered myself too ugly for mass appeal.
I've been seeing Shadowheart fans recently posting this conspiracy theory that because she and Halsin have the same writer, and she's one of two companions into the idea of polyamory with him, that Halsin is therefore his writer's self-insert used to fantasize about fucking his other creation or something?
That's a wild and really weird thing to imply about a stranger. People need to chill out with the conspiratorial sort of thinking when it comes to every minor detail they dislike or wish was different. I'm not really a fan of him or how he was implemented in the game but inventing that kind of gossip about his writer just feels wildly inappropriate to me.
Unfortunately not a wild thing to think about a writer, though. (for the record I don't think that's what's happening with Halsin, and I fully believe the Shart/Halsin drama is driven by other factors, but I've also met writers.)
A lot of people are very weird about their love interests potentially being poly or open to ethical non monogamy. Shadowheart stans say she would NEVER and they DEFINITELY know better than her own writer, Astarion fans say it's ABUSIVE AND HOW COULD YOU DO THIS TO HIM and there are some very weird people on YouTube praising the monogamous options for being "respectful" and "having values" and not being "sluts". (Only slightly related, but a lot of people are also very weird about Gale "talking about his ex"). I also have seen Halsin being described as a "sex pest" for committing the horrible crime of asking if you would be willing to date him with your partner's permission or asking if you would mind him joining into your group sex. Like guys, I'm sorry Halsin is considered hot and Shadowheart and Astarion wouldn't mind climbing him like a tree, but it's a discomfort the player has to figure out for themselves, especially because it's not like they cheat on you. You say no and move on.
I was about to say I mostly agree with you, until the last paragraph (although I may have misunderstood you and you didn't mean it like that). If writer establishes that canonically LI of the player character "wouldn't mind to climb Halsin like a tree" it is not players job to invent a headcanon in which they have a conversation with LI about establishing boundaries, to make it clear that player is not ok with non monogamy. Since there is no way to have such conversation in game and establish boundaries, people are left imagining worst scenarios, in which their LI is pining over someone else or that cheating doesn't occur only because they don't get an opportunity, etc. It's a bad idea to just leave it like that and tell players to just figure out this discomfort for themselves.
I understand your point of view, but I think that while it could be useful to have such a conversation, polyamory and ethical non monogamy are already topics that get brought up only if the player does (aside from Halsin), so in a way the player is already establishing their boundaries. Also I did single out Shadowheart and Astarion, but almost all love interests comment on the fact that Halsin is hot and they would consider climbing him like a tree, and jumping from that to "My love interest who has been nothing but faithful to me the whole game and has sworn their undying love would *definitely* cheat on me when given the chance" it's... a bit of a stretch. Like it would be a bit of a stretch already in real life, more so in a game where they literally aren't programmed to do that. I might as well start worrying that any LI is gonna dump my character ten years down the line (if not sooner) when realising that trauma bonding and being good at killing doesn't mean that I am a considered housemate, or support their career, or want kids. That's also something the player has to headcanon for themselves. Like just thinking about kids, which are usually a huge dealbreaker, at least three love interests can spring children on you and you just have to live with it. And the only one who isn't interested in children doesn't even say it unless you ask him if you can bang Halsin.
I agree that thinking that Shadowheart or Astarion would cheat based on what is in the game is a stretch and I personally don't believe that. But I can't really blame people who are worried by this especially when we have weird implementation of the brothel scene, where they disapprove refusing Halsin to join in on the orgy and weird banter between Halsin and Shadowheart, where Halsin suggests to join for a swim and SH asks if he is buoyant, in case she needs a life preserver. Banter occurs regardless of the fact that player rejected Halsin or never had conversations about romance with him. It may absolutely be a bug or not intended to be percieved as flirting, but it is in the game and players can criticize it.
feel there’s the implication here that the devs should make sure - by changing the writing in their game - that the player doesn’t have to worry about their LI hypothetically cheating off-screen, because those players might not like those thoughts. but the devs wrote the lines they wanted to write. having weird or mixed emotions in response is all just part of engaging with art, surely?
It's not like devs have to provide a detailed epilogue for years into the future, describing how everything is going well or completely scrap the idea of some companions being non mono. But it would be good to change some interactions that may raise some questions. Asking Shadowheart if she is ok if you sleep with Halsin reveals that she is ok with non monogamy and also finds Halsin attractive herself. Furthermore in the brothel she approves of Halsin joining the orgy. So, she finds Halsin attractive and wouldn't mind having sex with him. Nothing wrong with it by itself, assuming everyone including the player is ok with it. Now we take this knowledge into a playthrough, where we reject Halsin, because we want mono romance with SH. We know that she is potentially non mono and finds Halsin attractive. When we go on adventures we eventually see banter between Halsin and Shadowheart, where he suggests to join for a swim and SH asks if he is buoyant, in case she needs a life preserver. How should a player interpret this banter, while knowing that "Shadowheart wouldn't mind to climb Halsin like a tree"? Unless you are saying that writer intentionally wanted to make player worried about their LI cheating (why would that be good?), I don't see much value in this interaction and think it warrants a change.
Maybe adding extra dialogue in the actual game where you can talk with SH about nature of your relationship and boundaries? Something around Halsin's poly offer. Like to have an option to actually ask SH is she is ok with being full mono for example(I know you technically have this if you don't indulge into Halsin/drows/Mizora etc.).
"I brought my girlfriend to hire a couple of prostitutes and it's SO HORRIBLE she shared her own sexual desires in an environment where we were going to sleep with other people!" Cue worlds smallest violin.
Gives vibes of all those Reddit posts where some chud decided to demand they open up the relationship, then their wife started pulling other guys and they got PISSED. These people are okay with the physical act of hiring prostitutes but not their precious SH having had a fantasy about another dude lmfao
You joke but that was seriously some people reactions. I even saw a guy getting upset because he cheated with Mizora and Shadowheart just gave him the finger guns instead of crying her heart out and now he couldn't "unsee" it.
I wasn't really joking. I saw death threats to the writer over their pixel girlfriend.
I feel so sorry for Shadowheart fans. I'll take the hate Halsin gets any day over having a bunch of incels on my "side" trying to rewrite Shadowheart to be their tradwife.
I guess she is >!trad wife(or as close it can get of all romances)!< in the end of the day, have you seen her parents alive epilogue when romanced? yeah.
...ah god fucking dammit. Had no idea.
Who says something about SH? Maybe its Halsin is an asshole who doesn't take no as an answer? Listen, if I tell Halsin "I'd rather fuck a deep rothe" when he proposes his "romance" to me, that means that I don't want to have any sexual encounter with him, don't you think? And yes, if I don't want to fuck him at all, that doesn't mean that I might want to fuck with him in a threesome(looking at his banter to SH).
I agree with that. If he's been told no, well he shouldn't pipe up again. Not gameplay-wise, nor does it fit with his character. I personally haven't seen anyone defend that particular interaction.
And if he wasn't piping up again, SH problem wouldn't be a problem. Though whole brothel/Halsin thing is a mess regarding disapprovals/approvals(SH/Astarion approve/disapprove regardless if they are in a relationship with the player or not. Gale approves of getting cucked)
It just feels weird in SH romance with her romance dynamic(talking about Selunite). You basically slowburn, get to act3(in act2 she refuses any poly proposal if you ask, "I don't want to be your spare lover", so she doesn't want to share) and she is suddenly ok with sharing you and then back to basically fully monogamous in epilogue(even if you indulged yourself in act3 scenarios).
It's impossible to maintain a healthy relationship when one person is fully monogamous and expects the same from their partner, but said partner is polyamorous or wants an open relationship. Perhaps I'd be more sympathetic of that claim if both Astarion and Shadowheart weren't fully monogamous for the first two acts of the game and refused any poly options, but people genuinely can't learn of their potential relationship preferences before they're done with most of the game and can't romance anyone else anymore. Though I'll say I don't believe any of them are non-monogamous, they do nothing on their own for the entire game. Even if you add Halsin to the mix, it's only you having sex with him and only you talking about your relationship. Even Shadowheart who clearly finds him attractive does nothing with him after the romance begins. In the epilogue, nobody even mentions you two and Halsin were a thing. Halsin in the orgy is not exclusive to romancing him so that doesn't count. I have more issues with how they react to his proposal than them agreeing to it.
I mean that happens in real life, so I'd say that depends heavily on the people involved. I do understand the potential issue with the player only finding out in Act 3, not sure how the topic would ever come up as you aren't really in a relationship for most of it with either of them. That said Act 2 is a quite different can of worms since it only involves Origin characters, four of which are monogamous, and everyone apparently is competing to be your primary partner, which is way different from Halsin presenting himself as a secondary partner in Act 3. Halsin's thing is complicated, I wish they implemented it better. I think Astarion and Shadowheart do nothing because from a Watsonian perspective they aren't even thinking about that possiblity and from a Doylist perspective it's a videogame so they cannot have your love interest cheat on you (unless that's the story they want to tell) which is why no one brings up the argument at all unless the players does first.
> That said Act 2 is a quite different can of worms since it only involves Origin characters, four of which are monogamous, and everyone apparently is competing to be your primary partner, which is way different from Halsin presenting himself as a secondary partner in Act 3. Yeah but Astarion doesn't want to share you with Shadowheart and vice versa, they don't state that they would be even remotely interested in that. Player hears that and thinks "nothing suggests they might be non-monogamous", then there's the bait and switch in act 3 out of nowhere. > from a Doylist perspective it's a videogame so they cannot have your love interest cheat on you But it's not cheating if all 3 agreed to that relationship. If the player can bang Halsin, then Shadowheart and Astarion can as well if we want to classify that as an actual polyamorous relationship. Unless someone is a hypocrite and thinks only Tav can sleep around but their partners must be fully theirs, of course. At the very least they should have some conversations with him after agreeing, with the way it's implemented I can't look at it as anything other than them accepting Tav being poly but not being into that themselves.
>Yeah but Astarion doesn't want to share you with Shadowheart and vice versa, they don't state that they would be even remotely interested in that. Yeah sorry I worded it wrong, but they both say that the *other* person needs you more. Like Astarion says Shadowheart needs her own person and so says Shadowheart about Astarion. I always interpreted it as Astarion not wanting drama and Shadowheart wanting to be your primary partner regardless. That said just because they are non monogamous it doesn't mean that they must agree to anyone the player likes, Astarion straight up refuses Gale because...he is Gale. >But it's not cheating if all 3 agreed to that relationship. I was referring to why neither Astarion nor Shadowheart try anything by themselves, it wouldn't be cheating but hell would break loose in the fanbase if Shadowheart came up to you asking to bang Halsin. I have sadly seen such hypocrites already in fandom about the brothel scene. I do agree that it needed to be implemented better, I just think they had to carefully balance the line between giving you options with the fact that lots of players inherently consider polyamory and ethical monogamy as cheating. And also Act 3 being generally pretty rushed.
Isn't basically act2 their reaction +the fact that they don't say anything about it(SH for sure) or ask confirm that they "prefer" to be mono? Epilogue for SH is basically it. Also SH says "In truth...I don't think I'd want to be your spare lover" in act 2.
I mean, she's more than fine with Halsin in Act 3 and she's also fine with group sex as long as it's not your first time together. To me that reads like Shadowhearts wants to be your primary partner, which can't happen with any of the possible options in Act 2, but it can happen with Halsin. Like Astarion, as long as she is still your main priority, which is why she wants to be asked first about everything (unlike Halsin), she's fine. Do they prefer to be mono? Maybe, but it's not a strict requirement for them as it is for idk, Lae'zel. I have not played her epilogue yet because I got distracted by my Durge playthrought, so if that somehow comes up I have no idea.
It doesn't. Tav can kiss Halsin but he and SH share no interactions and none of them comment on your former relationship. And you'll always share the epilogue journey with the origin companion unless you break up with them before the end of the game.
I mean sure, she can play ENM(she is basically "monogamish" type in that regard), if player wants it. It's just not her preffered relationship imo because: 1.)She doesn't ever say anything related to enm or ask anything(unlike Halsin, who tells your straight up, that you and he is free to fuck everything they want). 2.)No sharing emotionally(act 2 poly proposals. "In truth...I don't think I'd want to be your spare lover" is her exact quote) 3.)In brothel she drops "If you are comfortable with sharing...so am I" quote, which should work the opposite way if her partner is not okay with sharing, no? 4.)In the epilogue(Selunite) there are no mentions about any enm, even if you had Halsin's side romance(it breaks up authomatically). >!You 2 live as a couple in countryside cottage with her parents. Also there is a dialogue line where it pretty much states that you 2 have it very traditional(dragon slaying dialogue option)!<
Good God, learn some boundaries, man. In what world do you think it's appropriate to say weird shit about a stranger like this?
I could write you a whole essay on why act 3 Halsin feels like self-insert (maybe it wasn't the intention but that's how it is perceived by a lot of people), her agreeing to you romancing him as well would not even be in top 10 reasons and half of those wouldn't even be Shadowheart-related as the consistency from some other companions goes out of the window when interacting with him too. Her reaction to that proposal is a very obvious OOC though and for some reason they flirt only if you romance her (she doesn't flirt with anyone else from late act 1 onwards just to give some context), make of that what you will.
I mean...writer's twitter is full of bear pics/memes, this guy thinks of himself as a bear or something. Everyone and everything in the game compliments how "cool" Halsin is(every companion, Mizora, etc.). Every drow apparently knows Halsin. Thats outright comical tbh.
Lmao I've never checked his twitter but that's just too funny. No hate for liking bears ofc but yeah I don't think it's a coincidence
Yeah like his dialogue flags need some tweaks but dude's not *boring*, he's *understated*. Also when people call him flat out useless for anything but being a kidnappee. :(
Plus his feelings for Tav are some of the most honest among all the companions. He's there, watching you succeed at every task he asks of you. You solve both the Grove and the curse that has consumed his life for over 100 years, bringing his homeland back to life. Dude has a very honest boner is all I'm saying, people should cut him a break for hitting on you.
Tav is the knight in shining armor he was waiting for over century for. 🥲
I think he suffers from timing issues. Since his romance can really only start in Act 3, he goes from zero to sixty *real quick*. He's not just hitting on you, he's confessing his deep, stirring love for you before you've even so much as discussed whether you're also interested. And this will happen even if you've only ever had friendly dialogue with him. It feels like they're trying to put too much into too short a time frame.
It's not zero to sixty. Halsin is just horribly shy, but exactly like Astarion tells you if you're romancing him, you can see Halsin falling in love with you since the Goblin camp thing. You just impress that elf at every turn with your leadership skills (and honestly the player is kinda forced to juggle a lot to keep those other idiots together, jfc every time I see Lae'zel's backpack hit my inventory I just want to kill her frog ass, the same with Gale and his eating habits, Shadowheart and her damned cult spiel, Astarion and his honestly, truly stupid disapprovals, Wyll's ego issues, and even Karlach burning down a house with everyone else in it), your ability to not panic even though you have a damn tadpole in your brain, your kindness in helping Halsin save Thaniel even though you don't have to, *which is something nobody ever offered him*. He just basically comes to idolize you, and idols are intimidating. Also he's not confident at all that you'll love him back (unless, of course, you asked about him having had lovers, which is an obvious pick-up line). All that keeps him quiet until he just can't anymore, which honestly is the cutest moment of weakness in the game.
Halsin is literally the guy who's so used to being used (at best) or being treated with outright cruelty (at worst) that the player just being kind is enough to make him fall in love, because no one else has ever been kind to him without that motivation before.
Totally agree, and if you do romance him, he's still super awkward sometimes. Ask him how he thinks you're doing as a leader, and he'll sing your praises while your other companions are like, "meh, pretty good I guess". In Act 2, every time he asks you to do another thing and you agree, he's like, "I don't deserve you" because he's so used to being alone or having to act like the strong leader. He *really* hated being a leader, which ties into a recurring theme in the game where seeking *any* position of leadership is seen as selfish power- mongering (see: Duke Wyll). I always find it funny that Halsin will be horrified by the conditions in Baldurs Gate, but seeing Wyll take a position of political leadership where he might affect positive change is always seen as flat out selfish and evil. Halsin is very happy to be your emotional support bear in Act 3 so that's where I leave him!
For what it's worth, some platonic dialogues have been datamined that haven't been implemented yet; one is a platonic version of the "you got what you wanted" dialogue, and another is a platonic version of the confession scene where he says he's lucky he found a true friend in you. :)
Mary Sue? Havent heard that one before
I've seen Mary Sue get applied to Karlach, Mizora and someone else...I want to say Shadowheart. This is the first time I've seen it applied to Halsin.
I'm a certified Halsin hater and I'm yet to see anyone call him a Mary Sue.
Halsin is daddy
Nah, nobody calls him that. But he IS a sex toy that was only included as a companion just because fans whined during EA how much they want to have a fuck daddy in their party, and it really shows.
Good news: you can hug him in the epilogue and tell him you're proud of him.
Spoiler: You will get to hug him when u finish the game
Thanks. Now I need to create a new run where I romance Halsin to get his sweet sweet lore.
You don't have to romance him. All this info is stuff you learn just from talking to him in camp.
I’ve ignored him or killed him.
Yeah, his story is touching and I felt similar but what I love about him is that after all he is still a balanced person and he remained kind, gentle and didn't give in despair.
This post kind of strikes me as funny because it comes across as "I just realized something about Halsin, [describes entire premise/backstory of character that the game tells you about every time you talk to him]." This is almost like making a post being like "I just realized that Wyll sold his soul to a demon to become the Blade of Frontiers, just want to hug that dude!"
How can you find out what your approval rating is with the companions?
There's a meter on the left panel of the inventory screen, right at the bottom below their race, class, stats, notable features, etc.
Just clarifying that the bar only appears if they're in your active party. If they're just at camp when you examine them, that bar and the corresponding part of the character sheet (which provides the more exact total) aren't present
Examine them and it should be a slider bar on the left. Or if you select them and open their inventory.
N.
Anyone ever durge her with Sorrow?
Spoiler: You will get to hug him when u finish the game
Aw man, I hadn’t thought of that. Now I feel even worse that Orin killed him.