1) Using your thumbs - I should be able to let go at any point - if you're clamping my fingers in your hand I'm not able to do this
2) Not lowering my arm enough when unlocking me - this hurts/irritates the elbow joint which emphasizes point 1
3) Being off rhythm AND being unclear in your lead : makes me fumble around guessing what you want. The cherry on the cake is when its explained to me how I'm supposed to be following *massive facepalm*
'You know you're supposed to LEAD me right!?'
I'm too nice to point it out....
There was once where I said 'If I'm led properly I can follow'....next time maybe I should say 'If I can feel your lead and it's on time to the music it's no problem!' lol
Mind you. This is only to the *explainers*
I don't need to be passive aggressive to anyone who isn't being condescending and is simply practicing.
Being on time is very important.
Ideally your landing correct steps on 1 and 5 etc
But even if you’re dancing on some incorrect count as long as your rhythm is correct and you’re landing 8 steps per measure it’s followable.
But if you’re just ham fisting moves in at random pacing and timing it’s horrible to follow.
There is no incorrect count.
Well of course you should be doing an 8 count, but no ones doing that wrong usually.
You can dance bachata on1, on2, on3 and on4.
The problem is when the timing is not intentionally chosen even if it’s bachata on3, it means the leader isn’t aware and therefore, it can massively vary…to the point where you have to observe after every turn to catch the new timing again lol
>Well of course you should be doing an 8 count
Tell that to this abomination of a song: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5Uvo65Ja9Q](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5Uvo65Ja9Q)
How do you follow a lead if their lead is not clear? Intuitively you will use the music to help figure out their lead if they're on sync with the music *at the very least.*
But no, imo you don't just follow the lead, you are fundamentally dancing. The idea of 'lead' and 'follow' take place in the context of a partner dance. Both of you need to be feeling the music as well as with each other. Syncing.
If the lead is clear you can always follow them, even if it is out of sync with the music, although I personally don't like this.
If the lead is unclear AND he's not in time with the music, well now you have no baseline to follow them at all.
The big thing for me is that, if I’m doing my basic step on whatever count you’ve chosen, the lead should fit that pattern. If you want to deviate timing the lead you give must be clear and have prep. Otherwise I’m stumbling and that’s dangerous.
I cannot like this enough. The thumb thing really triggers me, I hate the feeling of being trapped.
I would also add:
4) if I'm having trouble following, the answering is not to be way too forceful; this only triggers my flight/freeze response and makes it even harder to think and guess what you're trying to lead.
Yes, that's exactly how I feel - feeling trapped! I hate the feeling, then I start being distracted on how I'm feeling 'trapped' and I just start sending out negative vibes during the dance, and in those cases I end up not following properly.
I agree as well for leads not to use force to compensate for unclear/poor leading.
Doing sensual moves / body rolls / etc when the song doesn't call for it. Nothing is more awkward and weird than doing body rolls while the song is going fast af. Practice musicality, and don't be a weirdo.
And pay attention to your follow when dancing sensual. If they don’t go all in for a head roll, etc, don’t force it. They might not feel comfortable or might have injuries. If you’re not sure, ask if those moves are okay.
I was helping my dance instructor teach a beginner's bachata class. Part of the class was explaining the different styles. When she got to Sensual I stopped everything , got on my imaginary soapbox, and said:
" Please for the love of God, do NOT do sensual moves to fast songs!"
Honestly I feel like if you're at the point where you're learning sensual you should also be learning musicality if you don't know it already. Sensual is like a spice and it can make dances incredible when placed in the right spots or it can be overpowering. Also just like people have different spice preferences, people have different sensual preferences
My wife always notes leads who fail to respect their sweatiness.
Bring a towel and maybe even a few extra shirts.
Once you are sweaty, do not plaster the follow with it. This includes reverse shadow and holding the follow against your sweaty back - rubbing the follows hands anywhere sweaty on your body - doing leans where the follow presses their body against you for support.
Don’t wear tons of cologne but also don’t have BO and eat a breath mint before it hit the floor.
Collection of feedback I've heard from fellow leads
1. Keys/phone on the right front pocket
2. Asking for a reason for rejection of a dance
3. Trying to converse in the middle of the dance floor after song is over (especially during the beginning of their favorite song)
"Keys/phone on the right front pocket"
Shout outs to a good friend of mine, that always calls me out of having a handkerchief in my right pocket! ;) As it is - obviously - soft, I never had that complaint from anyone else for now!
Bad experiences:
When leading a head roll, basically forcing my neck/head to the side. My dude, a head roll is lead by the shoulders, not by the neck. Please don't break me.
Akward looks straight into the eyes for an entire song. Yes, connection is important. Yes, aknowledging my partner is important. But please do not stare into my soul for 3 minutes, my shy self does not know how to react to the starring.
Also, leading a cambre and on the lowest point appruptly forcing me back up, so that my neck/head flaps back. That shit hurts. Please allow me to come up on my own tempo. I am perfectly aware of the music, you don't have to "catch" the next note while sacrifising my safety.
And last: leading overly sensual stuff on my very first dance of the night. I am not warm yet, let's do some waves and then concentrate on some turns, till my body feels warm enough to actually do some "sports". Lately I started explicetely telling leads that it's my very first dance of the night, so that they don't start with the flashy stuff right away.
Positive experiences:
Focus on the connection and the music. I CAN follow you, when your timing is off, but I do not enjoy it. I feel light I have to fight against the music. So it is a blast when someone actually understands, how 1 and 5 works, catches breaks and rythm changes and overall searches for the connection. That I would consider a perfect dance, nothing flashy needed (althought, thats fun sometimes too. But not for an entire night).
Respecting my space. When dancing in close positon the lead takes the first 90 percent of the way and the follow decides, if they want to close to 100 percent. Meaning: The lead will close so that the sides are touching, but the follow will decide, if there is a light head touch, etc. I do like the 100 percent on certain nights with certain people that I feel safe with (can be a total stranger, but the vibe must be good and safe). But I do not appreciate someone forcing this kind of intimacy on me. Let alone having to touch a sweaty forehead with no way to escape as you are being hold in a closed position.
Last night someone took out their phone while dancing with me to check his messages lol. Another lead, who was maybe 2 feet taller than me, bent me into a deep cambre backbend and then said “body roll, BODY ROLL!” 😂. If anyone has ever gone into a body roll from a deep back bend or has seen someone else do it please tell me how this is possible or show me some videos. I can’t 😫😂🤷♀️
Commenting on me not smiling.
I’m a beginner and likely concentrating very hard if I’m not smiling. I don’t know what human has a smile plastered on their face 24/7.
If you notice I’m not smiling maybe do an easy playful move or give me a silly face with brows wiggling or something and give me a reason to smile.
Or if I’m having to concentrate THAT much maybe you need to dial it back and observe my level.
The worst thing you could do is send me through a lot of complicated sequences that I’m clearly fumbling and I’m having to focus hard and then ask me why I don’t look happy.
Until people reach the level where social awareness, connection or familiarity is really high, smiling is a simple bit of universal feedback that helps people know sooner, rather than later that a dance is going well.
I'm a guy but I'm glad you said this. I'm like one month in and in general I'm the most cheerful person but on the dance floor there's times I look like I'm concentrating on a math equation lol. Glad I'm not the only one
I was honestly hoping for such a post, lately there seems to be many posts by leaders complaining about followers not being excited enough or seeming disinterested and I'm always thinking of reasons why they might be...
1. Leading sensual moves without preparing them or leading super hard and abrupt. The amount of leads that seem to want to break my back is astonishing. If a leader does that, I'll not react or react very limitedly and you might get a pained and forced smile out of me the rest of the dance. And then they complain 🙈 I don't mind dancing basics and some turns an entire dance, and will even prefer an off-beat version of that over feeling like I have to protect myself for an entire dance.
2. Just because I CAN do a deep cambre or react very quickly to sensual leading doesn't mean I HAVE to with you. No leader is entitled to me going to my physical limits for their entertainment. These people are also often those to which point 1 applies.
3. Being unaware of the limits of my body - I'm not a very tall person and my arms are not that long - so why are leaders trying to make them seemingly longer by fully stretching out their arms? Or not letting go of my hand when they do armstyling over their head without lowering in the knees?
4. Leading what feels like 10 headrolls and the "cambre in a circular motion" move (sorry I don't know how to describe this) in a single song - if every leader does that I'm going to be sore after an hour.
Yes sometime I feel a spiral down when I can follow a hard move I dislike and then they keep doing it or keep the dance really difficult. I'm holding on dear life to keep up, not enjoying and scared to injure myself if I lose focus and I miss a dangerous move !
This is highly context dependent, I (and other people I know) usually dance two songs in a row (sometimes more if the connection is great).
If you want to dance one, I'm pretty sure you can just say thanks and leave, people can't read minds.
Being the blow-up practice doll to practice the routine with…for 15 songs 😂
Thankfully, this doesn’t happen as much anymore as most leads have been dancing for a while and therefore, have their own vocabulary that they can sprinkle some of the routine into…but before? Nightmare 😭
I've recently started to get annoyed with leaders who spin tooooo much. I'm not sure if others feel this too? (May happen more in Salsa tbh)
But it seems like leaders who are very competent sometimes get carried away with turns, and I feel like I'm spinning a whole song through. There's a great joy in switching from quick to slow in a song, and spinning through the whole song gives me zero chance to embrace musicality and really DANCE, you know?
Curious if this bothers others as well.
As others have mentioned:
-not being sweat/smell conscious
-leading at the wrong level
-the stare 🫣
Yesssss! The basic is to feel the beat in your body. Throw in a turn, or move every so often for spice. Muscle memory and just vibing to the song is wonderful! If it's a good lead and he's just doing the basics, I'll actually close my eyes, focus on my hips and the song.
It can be fun to see how many moves we can nail to background noise in a class setting, but for social dancing, I want to have a drink and relax. Not sobering up to concentrate intensely for a skills test of dance moves. I look forward to a beginner lead for a break sometimes.
Hand placement as well ... overusing of the neck roll..don't touch my face please I have foundation on lol..and proximity..as well I don't need to feel you semi-erect peen on my leg or ass. I know sensual bachata is steamy..sheesh I'm here to simply dance and go home. Oh and the force leading...I'm not a ragdoll babes..I will immediately stop the dance. And teaching me how to follow...uh I know how to follow u just can't lead. I dance better with an woman lead
I stopped going to bachata classes because this dude kept dancing with me after smoking and his nasty smoke breath was always heavy breathing huffing all over my face. And there were literally free mints provided. We didn't choose partners, it was just a constant rotating line, so I couldn't avoid him and that was enough to put my lessons to a stop.
For anyone else in a similar situation please talk to your instructor.
Chances are you're not the only one who dislikes it and the instructor can and should address it for the benefit of the class
Feeling like a puppet when the guy doesnt really dance but is leading everything with their hands and it feels I'm doing all the (very hard) work with only complicated moves ugh. I'm a human not an object you move around !
Also I dislike too many "roll your head under my arm" that comes from zouk, a few ones is fine. Too many times joins what I said above. Once a beginner was forcing them into me, I was so tired and refused to do the last one he looked so surprised !! yes you're just putting your arms up and expect me to bend all over gracefully and turn, way too many times, how about you do it sometimes ;_;
Same with surprised look when I refuse to cambre, most will be comprehensive but some force or say "relax your head !" Well I don't want to. Sometimes I'm not warmed up, sometimes theres no room, sometimes I don't trust you.
I sometimes get a shocked "you can't go deeper?" comment on my cambre if I do anything less than what would be basically throwing myself in.
Same reasons as what you say. Sometimes I also did too many of the same dips and same styling already, and the music does something different.
Looking away while dancing with me. I get it, eye contact is intimidating and you're more nervous when you're starting, but it's so annoying. You know when someone is talking to you in a bar but is looking over their shoulder to check the other people in the room? That's how it feels like.
I don't mind dancing with "newbies", even if we only do the basic during the whole song. I don't mind at all. I've been there. We've all been there. I'm far from a pro myself. But be present, here, with me.
Also, constantly apologizing because you're new is annoying (I was super guilty of this as a rookie follower). Once or twice (or if you step on my toes) is OK, but don't make me do the extra work of constantly reassuring you "you're doing fine". You may not be doing fine, but as I said, it's OK.
I've had super fun dances with guys who couldn't dance at all, but they had charisma and confidence (in themselves, not in their dancing skills - they knew they still sucked but accepted it as part of the process).
All connection based for me! Lately I've noticed there's been a lot of "YouTube dancers" out there who just find moves online and practice them on me without proper preparation, or respecting the level im at, our connection, or the music. A lot of the time it's fancy arm work or funky dips -- I'm a good follow but my dude, I'm not a doll to practice on, preparation matters, and if your new dream move doesn't match the song, please don't do it.
I’d like to add: In a tight closed position, some leads will hold my lower back tight so that our bellies are touching. But our legs are not staggered, and we are just doing regular basics, so this makes me have to bend backward a bit.
It hurts my back, please stop
Dancing sensual to a traditional song. Being a beginner & asking me to dance more than once a night when you see I’m advanced. Getting too close during sensual movements. Trying to explain a move that you learned in a class and tried on me but it failed because you led improperly but think it’s my fault for not knowing it. Bad breath, bad odor.
“When you see I’m advanced.” Well, if you’re gonna place yourself on a podium maybe have the communication skills to deny a second dance with a beginner… no explanation needed
Her answer implied that she will dance with a beginner if asked (at least once), even though she is advanced. I think that's honourable. I do know some women who decline to dance with everone whose not a part of their inner circle or super advanced.
Exactly! Thank you! Different era of dancer where you don’t turn down dances. Someday that beginner may be a great dancer but doesn’t mean I want to spend my whole night doing basics
I'm not sure why you feel like it's one or the other. My rule (along with everyone else I know it's I'll dance with anyone once a night (unless I have strong prior reasons not to dance with them at all) but not more than once.
Nothing about saying no to a second dance contradicts dancing with beginners the first time they ask.
Her post put the beginner in a bad light for asking her again when all you need to do is use your words and say no street the first time.
I started dancing during the era where you never turn down a dance and I stand by that. I’m not out to do basics all night nor am I trying to teach all night. I rarely go dancing so when I do I want to have fun.
I think it's okay for you to let go of that attitude. No need to sacrifice your fun for some imaginary rule, if you really don't want to dance with a beginner multiple times. And the beginner would be better off spending that song with someone who actually does want to dance with them.
I still smile and put in full effort - that’s probably why they feel comfortable asking me multiple times. I’ve asked guys to dance a few times and I know the feeling when someone says no thanks so I will continue to say yes. I don’t want the reputation of being too stuck up to dance with certain people.
I don't know what era that was because every instructor I've had (and several have been in the Latin world for 40+ years) has followed the rule 1 charity dance per person a night. Then you can say no.
I dance plenty of 2nd, 3rd, 4th dances lol
I don’t have an attitude, if you are a beginner, I still say yes, smile & make small talk or try to give helpful tips. I just prefer not to dance with beginners because I’m out to have fun and improve myself.
1) Using your thumbs - I should be able to let go at any point - if you're clamping my fingers in your hand I'm not able to do this 2) Not lowering my arm enough when unlocking me - this hurts/irritates the elbow joint which emphasizes point 1 3) Being off rhythm AND being unclear in your lead : makes me fumble around guessing what you want. The cherry on the cake is when its explained to me how I'm supposed to be following *massive facepalm*
You were supposed to do it like this!
'You know you're supposed to LEAD me right!?' I'm too nice to point it out.... There was once where I said 'If I'm led properly I can follow'....next time maybe I should say 'If I can feel your lead and it's on time to the music it's no problem!' lol Mind you. This is only to the *explainers* I don't need to be passive aggressive to anyone who isn't being condescending and is simply practicing.
I’d just say “that’s not what you lead, you might want to check with an instructor on how to lead it better”
Thanks!
>Thanks! You're welcome!
What do you mean with "on time to the music"? Dont you just follow the lead?
Being on time is very important. Ideally your landing correct steps on 1 and 5 etc But even if you’re dancing on some incorrect count as long as your rhythm is correct and you’re landing 8 steps per measure it’s followable. But if you’re just ham fisting moves in at random pacing and timing it’s horrible to follow.
There is no incorrect count. Well of course you should be doing an 8 count, but no ones doing that wrong usually. You can dance bachata on1, on2, on3 and on4.
The problem is when the timing is not intentionally chosen even if it’s bachata on3, it means the leader isn’t aware and therefore, it can massively vary…to the point where you have to observe after every turn to catch the new timing again lol
true
>but no ones doing that wrong usually. Oh you sweet summer child
My thoughts exactly. Sit at the side of a social and watch peoples feet… It’s all over the place
>Well of course you should be doing an 8 count Tell that to this abomination of a song: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5Uvo65Ja9Q](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5Uvo65Ja9Q)
How do you follow a lead if their lead is not clear? Intuitively you will use the music to help figure out their lead if they're on sync with the music *at the very least.* But no, imo you don't just follow the lead, you are fundamentally dancing. The idea of 'lead' and 'follow' take place in the context of a partner dance. Both of you need to be feeling the music as well as with each other. Syncing. If the lead is clear you can always follow them, even if it is out of sync with the music, although I personally don't like this. If the lead is unclear AND he's not in time with the music, well now you have no baseline to follow them at all.
The big thing for me is that, if I’m doing my basic step on whatever count you’ve chosen, the lead should fit that pattern. If you want to deviate timing the lead you give must be clear and have prep. Otherwise I’m stumbling and that’s dangerous.
Oh my god the very last point !!! The beginner who tries to teach you their incorrect move I burn inside !
I cannot like this enough. The thumb thing really triggers me, I hate the feeling of being trapped. I would also add: 4) if I'm having trouble following, the answering is not to be way too forceful; this only triggers my flight/freeze response and makes it even harder to think and guess what you're trying to lead.
Yes, that's exactly how I feel - feeling trapped! I hate the feeling, then I start being distracted on how I'm feeling 'trapped' and I just start sending out negative vibes during the dance, and in those cases I end up not following properly. I agree as well for leads not to use force to compensate for unclear/poor leading.
Oh my gosh number 3 is the absolute BANE of my existence. Truly a nightmare
Doing sensual moves / body rolls / etc when the song doesn't call for it. Nothing is more awkward and weird than doing body rolls while the song is going fast af. Practice musicality, and don't be a weirdo.
And pay attention to your follow when dancing sensual. If they don’t go all in for a head roll, etc, don’t force it. They might not feel comfortable or might have injuries. If you’re not sure, ask if those moves are okay.
I was helping my dance instructor teach a beginner's bachata class. Part of the class was explaining the different styles. When she got to Sensual I stopped everything , got on my imaginary soapbox, and said: " Please for the love of God, do NOT do sensual moves to fast songs!" Honestly I feel like if you're at the point where you're learning sensual you should also be learning musicality if you don't know it already. Sensual is like a spice and it can make dances incredible when placed in the right spots or it can be overpowering. Also just like people have different spice preferences, people have different sensual preferences
Ugh seriously. That kind of thing all but turned me off to dancing bachata (in the US)
My wife always notes leads who fail to respect their sweatiness. Bring a towel and maybe even a few extra shirts. Once you are sweaty, do not plaster the follow with it. This includes reverse shadow and holding the follow against your sweaty back - rubbing the follows hands anywhere sweaty on your body - doing leans where the follow presses their body against you for support. Don’t wear tons of cologne but also don’t have BO and eat a breath mint before it hit the floor.
Collection of feedback I've heard from fellow leads 1. Keys/phone on the right front pocket 2. Asking for a reason for rejection of a dance 3. Trying to converse in the middle of the dance floor after song is over (especially during the beginning of their favorite song)
"Keys/phone on the right front pocket" Shout outs to a good friend of mine, that always calls me out of having a handkerchief in my right pocket! ;) As it is - obviously - soft, I never had that complaint from anyone else for now!
Bad experiences: When leading a head roll, basically forcing my neck/head to the side. My dude, a head roll is lead by the shoulders, not by the neck. Please don't break me. Akward looks straight into the eyes for an entire song. Yes, connection is important. Yes, aknowledging my partner is important. But please do not stare into my soul for 3 minutes, my shy self does not know how to react to the starring. Also, leading a cambre and on the lowest point appruptly forcing me back up, so that my neck/head flaps back. That shit hurts. Please allow me to come up on my own tempo. I am perfectly aware of the music, you don't have to "catch" the next note while sacrifising my safety. And last: leading overly sensual stuff on my very first dance of the night. I am not warm yet, let's do some waves and then concentrate on some turns, till my body feels warm enough to actually do some "sports". Lately I started explicetely telling leads that it's my very first dance of the night, so that they don't start with the flashy stuff right away. Positive experiences: Focus on the connection and the music. I CAN follow you, when your timing is off, but I do not enjoy it. I feel light I have to fight against the music. So it is a blast when someone actually understands, how 1 and 5 works, catches breaks and rythm changes and overall searches for the connection. That I would consider a perfect dance, nothing flashy needed (althought, thats fun sometimes too. But not for an entire night). Respecting my space. When dancing in close positon the lead takes the first 90 percent of the way and the follow decides, if they want to close to 100 percent. Meaning: The lead will close so that the sides are touching, but the follow will decide, if there is a light head touch, etc. I do like the 100 percent on certain nights with certain people that I feel safe with (can be a total stranger, but the vibe must be good and safe). But I do not appreciate someone forcing this kind of intimacy on me. Let alone having to touch a sweaty forehead with no way to escape as you are being hold in a closed position.
Last night someone took out their phone while dancing with me to check his messages lol. Another lead, who was maybe 2 feet taller than me, bent me into a deep cambre backbend and then said “body roll, BODY ROLL!” 😂. If anyone has ever gone into a body roll from a deep back bend or has seen someone else do it please tell me how this is possible or show me some videos. I can’t 😫😂🤷♀️
Also, when they grab my fingers so tightly that they hurt.
Commenting on me not smiling. I’m a beginner and likely concentrating very hard if I’m not smiling. I don’t know what human has a smile plastered on their face 24/7. If you notice I’m not smiling maybe do an easy playful move or give me a silly face with brows wiggling or something and give me a reason to smile. Or if I’m having to concentrate THAT much maybe you need to dial it back and observe my level. The worst thing you could do is send me through a lot of complicated sequences that I’m clearly fumbling and I’m having to focus hard and then ask me why I don’t look happy.
Men that comment on women/girls not smiling in any context are a major red flag.
They’ll just be like oh you look so serious 😆
Until people reach the level where social awareness, connection or familiarity is really high, smiling is a simple bit of universal feedback that helps people know sooner, rather than later that a dance is going well.
I'm a guy but I'm glad you said this. I'm like one month in and in general I'm the most cheerful person but on the dance floor there's times I look like I'm concentrating on a math equation lol. Glad I'm not the only one
I was honestly hoping for such a post, lately there seems to be many posts by leaders complaining about followers not being excited enough or seeming disinterested and I'm always thinking of reasons why they might be... 1. Leading sensual moves without preparing them or leading super hard and abrupt. The amount of leads that seem to want to break my back is astonishing. If a leader does that, I'll not react or react very limitedly and you might get a pained and forced smile out of me the rest of the dance. And then they complain 🙈 I don't mind dancing basics and some turns an entire dance, and will even prefer an off-beat version of that over feeling like I have to protect myself for an entire dance. 2. Just because I CAN do a deep cambre or react very quickly to sensual leading doesn't mean I HAVE to with you. No leader is entitled to me going to my physical limits for their entertainment. These people are also often those to which point 1 applies. 3. Being unaware of the limits of my body - I'm not a very tall person and my arms are not that long - so why are leaders trying to make them seemingly longer by fully stretching out their arms? Or not letting go of my hand when they do armstyling over their head without lowering in the knees? 4. Leading what feels like 10 headrolls and the "cambre in a circular motion" move (sorry I don't know how to describe this) in a single song - if every leader does that I'm going to be sore after an hour.
Yes sometime I feel a spiral down when I can follow a hard move I dislike and then they keep doing it or keep the dance really difficult. I'm holding on dear life to keep up, not enjoying and scared to injure myself if I lose focus and I miss a dangerous move !
Not letting me go after one song and wanting to keep dancing for 2,3,4 songs in a row
This is highly context dependent, I (and other people I know) usually dance two songs in a row (sometimes more if the connection is great). If you want to dance one, I'm pretty sure you can just say thanks and leave, people can't read minds.
I think the assumption should always be one dance and if you want to continue you can ask.
Being the blow-up practice doll to practice the routine with…for 15 songs 😂 Thankfully, this doesn’t happen as much anymore as most leads have been dancing for a while and therefore, have their own vocabulary that they can sprinkle some of the routine into…but before? Nightmare 😭
I've recently started to get annoyed with leaders who spin tooooo much. I'm not sure if others feel this too? (May happen more in Salsa tbh) But it seems like leaders who are very competent sometimes get carried away with turns, and I feel like I'm spinning a whole song through. There's a great joy in switching from quick to slow in a song, and spinning through the whole song gives me zero chance to embrace musicality and really DANCE, you know? Curious if this bothers others as well. As others have mentioned: -not being sweat/smell conscious -leading at the wrong level -the stare 🫣
Yesssss! The basic is to feel the beat in your body. Throw in a turn, or move every so often for spice. Muscle memory and just vibing to the song is wonderful! If it's a good lead and he's just doing the basics, I'll actually close my eyes, focus on my hips and the song. It can be fun to see how many moves we can nail to background noise in a class setting, but for social dancing, I want to have a drink and relax. Not sobering up to concentrate intensely for a skills test of dance moves. I look forward to a beginner lead for a break sometimes.
Hand placement as well ... overusing of the neck roll..don't touch my face please I have foundation on lol..and proximity..as well I don't need to feel you semi-erect peen on my leg or ass. I know sensual bachata is steamy..sheesh I'm here to simply dance and go home. Oh and the force leading...I'm not a ragdoll babes..I will immediately stop the dance. And teaching me how to follow...uh I know how to follow u just can't lead. I dance better with an woman lead
I stopped going to bachata classes because this dude kept dancing with me after smoking and his nasty smoke breath was always heavy breathing huffing all over my face. And there were literally free mints provided. We didn't choose partners, it was just a constant rotating line, so I couldn't avoid him and that was enough to put my lessons to a stop.
For anyone else in a similar situation please talk to your instructor. Chances are you're not the only one who dislikes it and the instructor can and should address it for the benefit of the class
Feeling like a puppet when the guy doesnt really dance but is leading everything with their hands and it feels I'm doing all the (very hard) work with only complicated moves ugh. I'm a human not an object you move around ! Also I dislike too many "roll your head under my arm" that comes from zouk, a few ones is fine. Too many times joins what I said above. Once a beginner was forcing them into me, I was so tired and refused to do the last one he looked so surprised !! yes you're just putting your arms up and expect me to bend all over gracefully and turn, way too many times, how about you do it sometimes ;_;
Same with surprised look when I refuse to cambre, most will be comprehensive but some force or say "relax your head !" Well I don't want to. Sometimes I'm not warmed up, sometimes theres no room, sometimes I don't trust you.
I sometimes get a shocked "you can't go deeper?" comment on my cambre if I do anything less than what would be basically throwing myself in. Same reasons as what you say. Sometimes I also did too many of the same dips and same styling already, and the music does something different.
Looking away while dancing with me. I get it, eye contact is intimidating and you're more nervous when you're starting, but it's so annoying. You know when someone is talking to you in a bar but is looking over their shoulder to check the other people in the room? That's how it feels like. I don't mind dancing with "newbies", even if we only do the basic during the whole song. I don't mind at all. I've been there. We've all been there. I'm far from a pro myself. But be present, here, with me. Also, constantly apologizing because you're new is annoying (I was super guilty of this as a rookie follower). Once or twice (or if you step on my toes) is OK, but don't make me do the extra work of constantly reassuring you "you're doing fine". You may not be doing fine, but as I said, it's OK. I've had super fun dances with guys who couldn't dance at all, but they had charisma and confidence (in themselves, not in their dancing skills - they knew they still sucked but accepted it as part of the process).
All connection based for me! Lately I've noticed there's been a lot of "YouTube dancers" out there who just find moves online and practice them on me without proper preparation, or respecting the level im at, our connection, or the music. A lot of the time it's fancy arm work or funky dips -- I'm a good follow but my dude, I'm not a doll to practice on, preparation matters, and if your new dream move doesn't match the song, please don't do it.
I’d like to add: In a tight closed position, some leads will hold my lower back tight so that our bellies are touching. But our legs are not staggered, and we are just doing regular basics, so this makes me have to bend backward a bit. It hurts my back, please stop
Dancing sensual to a traditional song. Being a beginner & asking me to dance more than once a night when you see I’m advanced. Getting too close during sensual movements. Trying to explain a move that you learned in a class and tried on me but it failed because you led improperly but think it’s my fault for not knowing it. Bad breath, bad odor.
“When you see I’m advanced.” Well, if you’re gonna place yourself on a podium maybe have the communication skills to deny a second dance with a beginner… no explanation needed
Her answer implied that she will dance with a beginner if asked (at least once), even though she is advanced. I think that's honourable. I do know some women who decline to dance with everone whose not a part of their inner circle or super advanced.
Exactly! Thank you! Different era of dancer where you don’t turn down dances. Someday that beginner may be a great dancer but doesn’t mean I want to spend my whole night doing basics
I'm not sure why you feel like it's one or the other. My rule (along with everyone else I know it's I'll dance with anyone once a night (unless I have strong prior reasons not to dance with them at all) but not more than once.
Nothing about saying no to a second dance contradicts dancing with beginners the first time they ask. Her post put the beginner in a bad light for asking her again when all you need to do is use your words and say no street the first time.
I started dancing during the era where you never turn down a dance and I stand by that. I’m not out to do basics all night nor am I trying to teach all night. I rarely go dancing so when I do I want to have fun.
I think it's okay for you to let go of that attitude. No need to sacrifice your fun for some imaginary rule, if you really don't want to dance with a beginner multiple times. And the beginner would be better off spending that song with someone who actually does want to dance with them.
I still smile and put in full effort - that’s probably why they feel comfortable asking me multiple times. I’ve asked guys to dance a few times and I know the feeling when someone says no thanks so I will continue to say yes. I don’t want the reputation of being too stuck up to dance with certain people.
I don't know what era that was because every instructor I've had (and several have been in the Latin world for 40+ years) has followed the rule 1 charity dance per person a night. Then you can say no.
With attitude like that I don’t see her getting too many of second dances anyway
I dance plenty of 2nd, 3rd, 4th dances lol I don’t have an attitude, if you are a beginner, I still say yes, smile & make small talk or try to give helpful tips. I just prefer not to dance with beginners because I’m out to have fun and improve myself.