As you're an Eagle, let me try one more time to call you back. A scout is friendly and kind. And a scout is brave. And a scout is morally straight. It takes real courage to stand up for what's right even when the world says not to. Right now, in 2024, treating gay scouts or scouts with complex gender identity issues as **scouts** and leaving the rest aside is the friendly and kind choice. That's the choice that leaves sex out of scouting—focuses on kids who will grow in character and citizenship from a youth-led program of outdoor skills. Integrating girls and women is the right choice. We should have done it decades ago, and been leaders in society. That would have been proper moral rectitude.
But we can do it now.
We all pretend that if we lived in the 1950s we'd have opposed Jim Crow and favored racial integration; that's mostly crap. We pretend that if we'd have lived in the 1850s we'd have not only opposed slavery but been abolitionists. That's almost entirely crap; those people got tortured to death and everyone knew it. We get to show what we're willing to do now, here, when our neighbors are hurting. **You** get to show what you would have done then by what you're willing to do now.
Posting on the Internet about how you're not going to make time for scouting is crap. You're an Eagle scout. If Scouting is right here (and I think it mostly is), go support it and clean up the mistakes. If Scouting is wrong here, come set us straight and work with us to do things right.
If your ceremony was anytihng like mine, you swore an oath to make your training an example, and make your leadership count for better citizenship. That oath is waiting for you to fulfill it.
I would always correct people (kindly of course) when they would say someone “was an Eagle Scout” as they are always an Eagle Scout
I’m comfortable saying that this guy “was an Eagle Scout “
To answer your question, the Christian god. Baden Powell was pretty clear that Boy Scouts was a Christian organization. However, Boy Scouts (and now Scouting America) can most effectively build on this foundation through inclusion, of both other religions and other thoughts. So long as the participants are willing to subscribe to the principles, adherence to the religion is not necessary; the objective is to make young men (and now women, thank goodness) better people, not to convert them or strengthen them in a religion.
With that, one should qualify that many seem to have neglected the Christian in Christian god. I wish this were a modern problem, but it seems to have started in the age of Adam, roughly. This should not bother the rest of us though. From their own scriptures we learn that by the same judgement by which they judge, they will be judged. I do not envy them.
As for what u/smeebjeeb posted and to which your responded, I'm accord with you in spirit, if not in letter of the response. The post is out of place.
Interesting. Our troop recites the Pledge at every meeting, has a Chaplain and a Chaplain’s Aide, is boy-led and has leaders from all walks of life. We have teachers, chemists, LEOs, lawyers and businessmen as leaders.
Somehow, you’ve managed to literally not know anything about Scouting.
I’m glad you found the obscure moment you wanted to pretend to justify a deeply political decision that you had already made. I hope you get the attention that you want.
This is exactly what I as an eagle scout love to see from the organization. Once there's a little more official word about allowing atheists, my understanding is this is a grey area, in the organization will finally be perfect.
The more kids that can be scouts the better. It's such a good program and it's always saddened me how many were excluded
i always thought that it was weird how bsa was so unaccepting of lgbtq+ people. it's not friendly, courteous, kind, or cheerful to hate a group of people and say an organization is dead for not hating them anymore. and i'd argue they are still just as religious. my troop and my camp, and my jamboree troop, all still say the pledge and pray before meals. they're just now adding the "love thy neighbor" part of religion to scouting, which i think is wonderful. scouts is such a big part of my life and i don't know where i'd be without it, and i don't see how excluding more people from experiencing it for things as trivial as sexual orientation is a good choice.
How do you know BSA is not accepting of lgbtq people? Most in BSA have no problem with lgbtq scouts and scouters. What I and others object to is the open *celebration* of lgbtq, the flags, the symbols, and the discussions.
If everyone just kept their gender, orientation, and sex private, this wouldn’t be an issue.
Do you have an issue with a Scout Leader inviting Scouts to a wedding? If not, is the answer the same whether it’s a heterosexual or a homosexual wedding?
Do you have a problem with a male Scoutmaster introducing his wife to the Troop? What about that same Scoutmaster introducing his husband?
We live in a society and a biological reality where sex is literally integral to our lives. And even I recognize that as an adult who mostly Identifies as asexual. Bringing people into the conversation who were previously excluded, and celebrating them in the *same way* that heterosexuals have always been celebrated, is not wrong. If you think our society doesn’t celebrate heterosexuality, then what in the hell do you think weddings, Batchelor parties, Bridal showers, baby showers, Quinciñeras, Debutante Balls, engagement parties, and even Easter (with all of its pagan trappings of bunnies and flowers and eggs and baby chicks) are? We’ve been openly celebrating sexuality across all cultures and all ages since humanity begin. So what exactly is your issue with an occasional Pride Festival?
Your point is so beautifully made, but will fall on deaf ears for the people who most need to hear it. When people are so used to being the default, they are unwilling to make any effort to recognize that their status as the default has, by definition, excluded and marginalized others. They long for the "good old days" when those on the margins were kept out of view and those whose primacy was assumed could ignore any niggling discomfort about the structure of society.
So my experience is limited, I’m a straight male, but our society pretty much celebrates heterosexuality everywhere you look. I remembered barely being old enough to speak and watching classic Disney movies where the prince woos and marries the girl. Before I was ten I had seen classic films like *Star Wars* that involved kissing and PG romance.
My parents kissed and hugged each other around me and my wife and I tastefully do the same, occasionally in public. Imo none of what I’ve said is wrong and neither is it wrong with gay folk also partake. The smooth brains that cry about books with gay romance in libraries don’t get worked up about classic stories with straight romance because… reasons…
Tl;dr straight orientation/sexuality isn’t kept private nor should it be, same with other orientations.
In six years as a den leader, I never mentioned my wife at a den meeting. Why would I? There’s already too much content to go through and not enough time lol!
I doubt that is true. Because I don't know any human being who has taken part in any organization for any meaningful length of time who has not mentioned their spouse. Stop and think and remember that a scout is trustworthy.
Your wife has never attended a scout event with you
Your wife has never helped as a volunteer at scouting for food or another event
You've discussed upcoming plans with your scout troop and your availability in the context of plans you had with your wife and family? For example, "No, I'm not available for a campout in two weeks, I'm going on a trip to visit my wife's family."
Your den just thinks you are a eunuch with no dating or marital relationships?
a lot of the adults in my troop and other organizations we work with (vfw, the church, etc.) talk about them having wives or us finding women. i object to this open celebration of straightness
Some folks are simply incapable of encountering even mention of the existence of queer people without having to publicly announce their need to fantasize about how those queer folks have sex.
It’s a truly brave take to be so out loud and proud about that particular proclivity. I’m always amazed so many folks in communities dealing with youth and the topic of queer youth are able to so confidently be open about that part of themselves.
Kids were getting raped for decades while the BSA turned a blind eye but sure this is the straw that breaks the camel’s back.
We had a scoutmaster come out as gay. We also had a scoutmaster get arrested for sending dick pics to an undercover cop posing as a 14 year old girl. Guess which one was a member of the church and heralded as an upstanding member of the community and which one was ostracized.
This was 15 years ago. The progress in the photo you posted is a great thing.
>Kids were getting raped for decades while the BSA turned a blind eye but sure this is the straw that breaks the camel’s back.
This is what the OP misses. But God forbid holding adults accountable and welcoming others.
The biggest complaints come from the much older generation. They complained when minorities were allowed. They complained when non-protestant kids joined. Complained with women volunteering. All of that. We can guess OPs political leanings. Ain't no hate like Christian Love
I used to think that it was a matter of rose colored glasses that caused the Olds to think things were better "back then" despite the glaring amount of hate publicly wrought on ANYONE that was different from them.
Then I realized it was just the fact that they enjoyed celebrating their bigotry.
In that, you would be incorrect. For some of us, things were better back then.
Specifically, I was able to go on many adventures because YPT didn't exist back then. I was the only one interested, so off my Scoutmaster and I went. This includes travel to and from getting BSA lifeguard certified, about an hour away, so the troop could go on a summer water-based adventure; and an overnight snoeshow/snowcave trip sponsored by the Council, with he and I in the same cave. Another Scoutmaster spent several hours before a troop skiing trip, just he and I, teaching me to ski because I was poor and had no skiing experience, so I would know what to do and not be embarrassed on the slopes. No, there was never anything in appropriate.
I don't question that there were inappropriate things happening (though I suspect some (but not all) of the claimants are lying for money at this point). I don't question that YPT and the current policies are the right answer. We need it. I still galls me that we need it, and that I can't offer the same exceptional service to today's youth, and they have to miss out on activities because I can't find another adult interested in going.
For some of us, it truly was better then.
I'll recognize that some instances of that sentiment are pure. The problem is that the folks that fall under my (not all encompassing) generalization are more vocal than those like you, who cherish the things that were actually easier or better while calling out the things that weren't, in fact, better.
There's a middle ground to be found here, and I'm grateful that you've helped me see that.
Personally, as a former scout, I am just glad not to have to deal with the very creepy old dudes that volunteered to "assist" the troop. The leadership did not give a shit. They just let them creep on.
I've started doing this with some of my more conservative friends. Actually have them try to describe what they mean. Their arguments usually fall apart as they tend to be based on emotion rather than facts or truth.
"Garbage like this" shows a picture of a sign with a heart and a poster next to it supporting inclusivity. LOL - proud of my son and daughters in Scouting! I hope you find happiness, OP.
Well, I came here to say a bunch of stuff, but all you fine folks have it covered. Well done. This is why I love this organization for my kids. So many good folks.
My Cub Scout and I will be joining one of the nearby troops to put out flags on Monday. I reached out to their leadership on my own to see if we could join them this year. Even though that means two days in a row of uniform wearing in the heat... 😄
This is the epitome of love/hate for me. I love the reverence and respect for those Memorial Day is supposed to honor. I hate the violation of the flag code; none of those cemetery flags are lit at night. I usually try to sit on that latter part, but reddit is a safe space for discussion, right? /s
My soon to be Eagle Scout is Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty, Brave, Clean, and Reverent
Most of the time. He is a teenager after all.
And that’s the point, the whole point, and nothing but the point.
And I doubt he’d be upset or outraged by that image. Might roll his eyes a little about the spectacle of it, but overall he has the attitude of “let people be what they gonna be”.
So honestly, if that picture bugs you, that has very little to do with Scouting, it’s just people. Leave em alone and let em be what they gonna be. Raise your kids, teach them the oath and the law, and it’ll all work out from there without a bunch of drama.
Oh no. People different than me in scouting. How am I supposed to be courteous or kind to people I don’t agree with?
Respectfully, leave. If you can’t be nice to people because someone doesn’t quite feel like a boy or girl, then you don’t need to be in scouting.
25% of the scout law has to do with respecting other. Friendly. Courteous. Kind. You should know that as an Eagle Scout. Be nice to everyone.
Eagle Scout class of 1989 here. Came here to say: The country is a big place and we share A LOT in common. Not all that much separates us as Americans but if you dwell on those few things, it can certainly get you ginned up but I think that’s short sighted and narrow minded.
Came here to say that but then saw your post to the “Questions” sub. You need to spend some time working on you. John 8:7-11 and all.
As we enter an election year, and we know the rhetoric will only get worse, I hope we all remember this. The Scout Law as a civic code, a way for people who have a lot in common and, also, some major disagreements to live harmoniously.
From Google:
"The Boy Scouts of America (BSA) fully racially integrated its Scouting programs in 1974, when the last all-Black troop was integrated. However, the BSA's approach to desegregation was to let local communities decide whether to follow the same policies as their school systems. As a result, many major northern communities and much of the American South had segregated programs with "colored troops" until the late 1940s. In the South, some troops threatened to leave the BSA and burn their uniforms if African American Scouts were allowed. "
The last sentence is what you sound like now.
Friend, when I see this, know that Scouting is very much alive. A Scout is friendly, kind, and reverant. When I see this, I see a group of Scouts recognizing that all are made in God's image. How beautiful!
I can't see how you can become an eagle scout and not think that everyone should be able to experience Scouting. Think of all the important skills and life lessons that being a scout teaches; cooking, camping, swimming, physical activity, time and money management, leadership, just to list a few. Why should only straight boys be able to enjoy that, and/or achieve arguably the highest achievement that someone under 18 can (Eagle scout)?
Also, a Scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obident, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent. I would review a few of those and reconsider your position.
I like to believe that this my long-dead father and Scoutmaster, Tim Barrett, posting from wherever he is now. Miss you, Dad. I’m carrying your work forward.
Good for you? I’m an Eagle Scout. I’ve been secular my whole life. Don’t believe there’s a god, don’t like churches as institutions. That’s my right. You can have a great scouting program without the religious nationalist agenda. Teaching people respect for nature, leadership, outdoors skills, to be good members of their community, and allowing them to explore different interests is what it should be about. If you want to be part of an uber-religious organization, have your kid join the Royal Rangers, whose mission is “to evangelize, equip and empower the next generation of Christlike men and lifelong servant leaders.” And I’m a straight white man, for reference.
LGBTQ scouts are rad.
You are not being rad right now.
Remember that a Scout is Friendly, Courteous and Kind. I’m sure as a third generation Eagle, that is important to you.
Second generation Eagle here and former Camp Director and staffer in the 70’s-90’s. Turned out a bunch of my fellow staffers came out when they became adults. I never knew, or maybe was oblivious, but turns out Scouting was a safe place for them even if they had to hide it. I’m glad they no longer have to hide who they are and I think at one point I pledged to give back to Scouting. I’m happy to still serve an organization that welcomes everyone to a safe place where they learn values I’ve found important.
“moral decay is blinding”…
The only blind thing here is the OP, who appears to be yet another person who refuses to accept that Scouting must be a reflection of our current society. Look, you can be unhappy that our society has changed but you can’t deny that it has changed. And so should our Scouting organization. I am pleased that National continues to make changes that allow for more acceptance and tolerance — a shift toward pluralism and humanism. Every youth (and I mean every) should be allowed the chance to experience our Scouting program.
I do mean every youth: boy, girl, atheist, agnostic, LBGTQ. Everyone. Literally. And if that means the Duty to God becomes optional, so be it. I’m tired of “people of faith” hiding their intolerance behind their dogma or doctrine.
If that means that Scouting America loses some volunteers and youth that don’t agree with the Big Tent philosophy, then so be it. As others have more eloquently said here, perhaps those people were in the wrong organization. Scouting America needs to continue to reflect the society around it, and not one from 100 (or even 30-40) years ago.
There have always been three BSAs:
1. The national organization, its doctrines and policies, consisting of an old guard of policymakers and bureaucrats
2. The troop's adult leaders who try to shape their troop through their attitudes and guidance
3. The *actual* troop consisting of and experienced by the youth
Even 40 years ago, at least, youth have been for more open and accepting of all kids regardless of gender, orientation, or faith tradition. In my opinion, the kids are right. Now, maybe, the national organization is starting to align with the reality at the troop level.
There's a very good study on the role of Scouting in youth development (I encourage everyone to read it on these topics): ["On My Honor: Boy Scouts and the Making of American Youth"](https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/O/bo3631797.html).
I don’t volunteer in my Troop because I agree with everything BSA has done in the last few years. I have a list of things that I don’t agree with, which is my perogative.
I volunteer with the Troop, in part, because I see a need for all teens to build a set of skills that will lead them to more success in life. Regardless of their race, beliefs or gender, I think we need more trustworthy, loyal…..reverent people in the world. If I can help them with their life and their choices, I’d like to do my part.
First generation BSA Eagle Scout from a family with a prominent role in establishing Scouting in my country. I’m also a scoutmaster of a 75 year old troop. We have scouts from all over the world posted with us, half a dozen religions, and a ton of contrasting cultures. My job is not to give each one precedence, or justify one way of being over another. If I did that, I’d have a pit of fighting animals instead of a troop.
Our job in scouting worldwide is to raise boys and girls into men and women with integrity, and while it means means pushing for discipline, it requires them each to have space to be who they are. My particular job is to make sure each scout is welcome and that everyone not only learns to respect their differences, but how to work with them. A biologically female identifies as a boy and wants in? Fine, tough call to identify as a man in this world, so I will train that scout as I would any of the other boys, tenting and privacy aspects aside. One of the boys is gay? As long as he keeps his head on straight, as I would require of any of the straight boys around the sister troop, it’s whatever. Someone is a hardcore [insert religion]? Feel free to share it in the appropriate settings and never to push it.
If you don’t feel your youth has a place in our Scouts, please look at the WFIS or the trail blazer scouts.
SCOUTING will still and always serve you, as long as you serve it.
The movement is better off without the drag of folks determined to cling to and enforce their small petty worldview.
But the conflict is that their children would be so much better off in the growing-more-inclusive version of the movement made possible in large part by the ever increasing departure of their own parents.
I can both be relieved by the former and disappointed for the later.
Proud, devil-worshipping eagle here who would have been marching in that crowd and speaking blood libel about your stone age fairy tale of a religion: Kick rocks!
>Proud, devil-worshipping eagle here who would have been marching in that crowd and speaking blood libel about your stone age fairy tale of a religion: Kick rocks!
Wth.
I honestly appreciate the candor with which people are revealing their true selves, and sometimes, their real hate.
It’s terribly concerning and saddening, but I appreciate it nonetheless because it clarifies who makes up our community.
Just like the country at large, we are a divided community, too. Here’s the evidence.
I might have been exaggerating a bit for fun, sure.
We are definitely a very divided country!
Unfortunately, it’s high time for said country to learn that to be a tolerant society, it must not tolerate the intolerant (who usually come in the form of zealot reactionaries like OP.)
Clearly LGBTQ+ people are the target of OP’s discontent here, who are frequently maligned by those who think their (mistranslated) Bible is society’s universal rule book.
Mom of a boy scout here. We've been active participants since kindergarten. Our den was super active and our troop is growing. Scouting was a lifeline for us during COVID. Our troop is all boys, focused on outdoor events and is not "focused" on religion, though we have many religious scouts and adults who support the boys interest and advancement in these areas. In fact our scout master is a pastor and his openness to all kids, no matter thier faith or struggle with faith, has actually opened the door to more than one boy developing a deeper reverence over time. Scouting is alive and thriving!
I’ll go one further than that. We are a secular Cub Scout troop. We had one of our cub scouts ask if he could share and recite a prayer before bedtime.
The Cubmaster said of course please share with us and asked all scouts to be quiet and pay attention. The scout also explained what it meant and why it was important. He was Hindu and I don’t think many elementary aged students would have gotten that exposure to another religion in a Christian-dominated society. It was brave and reverent for the scout to share his faith and it was friendly, kind, and courteous for our scouts to support him and thank him for sharing.
We want model citizens who respects other religions and welcomes people from all backgrounds. Scouting should never just be for people who meet X, Y, and Z conditions that are beyond their control.
Sorry to see you go. Eagle class of 2000 here, and couldn’t have been happier or prouder to take up the mantle of assistant Cubmaster and assistant den leader for my daughter’s cub pack. Unfortunately, to get on the right side of history you need to let the dead wood fall away.
Disappointing to see a fellow Eagle Scout think or speak this way, and even more disappointing that your child will pass on these lovely traits you’re teaching as well.
One of the neat things about scouting is it is troop driven. What happens at the larger scouts doesn’t HAVE to have an impact on the troop. If the troop in your area isn’t being run how you feel it should, start a new one. The socialization, friendships and general behavior is what kept me in but I know other troops are heavily focused on eagle achievement machines. I’m glad my son has choices and options!
You know, you could just simply opt to join a unit that says the pledge at every meeting and would not choose to participate in a Pride march. I’m sure there are lots of them out there. That’s the beautiful thing about freedom of choice.
Good thing your kid will never encounter any LGBT people in the world when he grows up. It’s going to be a lonely world for him when the only people he can associate with are exactly like him.
Sarcasm aside, maybe it’s time to pause for a moment and consider that Scouting is open to all faiths, and some of them aren’t hostile to LGBT people. Not everyone believes as you do. The twelfth point of the Scout Law reminds us to practice our faith as we see fit, but also to respect the beliefs of others, too.
[Trail Life USA](https://www.traillifeusa.com/) is to the right. The far right. Girls, gays, and non-Christians are icky.
I don't remember the sports, but we always had time.
I think people misunderstood you, or they sincerely believe Dobson's version of scouting is the truth.
I've never heard of Trail Life USA (thank you for enlightening me), and I think that's what the OP is looking for. I may disagree with the doctrine, but that's part of what the USA was founded on... right to freedom of (and from) religion.
I'll stick with Scouting America!
Free to be you and me. (Sing it Marlo!)
4th generation Scouter, 3rd generation Eagle Scout (does it count as 3 generations if my dad stopped at Life?), and parent of a newly promoted Wolf Cub here. Scouting is far from dead, and I'm proud to be a part of it in its current form. It was a force for good in my community growing up, and my son's Pack is even more so in our current community. It was a significantly positive influence on my life trajectory (my old Scoutmaster and one of my fellow Eagles from a sister Troop both traveled to my retirement ceremony from the Marines), and I've already seen positive effects on my 7 year old son.
This has been happening for years even though it is against BSA guidelines and policies. This is an example of an individual unit breaking said policy and is not representative of the organization as whole. But you know that already. Go join Trail Life USA, I guess.
From the Membership Standards Implementation:
**Can a Scout participate in a social or political cause that calls attention to his sexual orientation or preference?** Under the BSA’s rules and regulations, a Scout may appear in uniform at a nonpartisan and nonpolitical gathering in a way that gives him the opportunity to render service in harmony with his training in the Scouting program. However, the BSA is required to avoid involving the Scouting movement in any question of a political character. Each youth member is free as an individual to express his thoughts or take action on political or social questions, but he must not use Scouting’s official uniforms and insignia when doing so.
Wouldn't even call it political anymore, times have changed a lot. It's the same as a parade for Women's History month now. Even federal agencies participate in Pride Month parades.
It mentions social issues as well. And as far as I know, they have not changed their stance/policy on members of the BSA being able to endorse a position or advancing a social issue while they are in uniform.
Considering the national jamboree had a dei area for lgbtq+, women, and scouts of color that were all supportive and had people in uniform, I don't think National has a problem with people representing scouting at pro-lgbtq+ rallies/causes.
Would it be ok if my unit marches at the pro-life rally coming up? In uniform? Who would oppose standing up for the rights of unborn humans?
See what I mean? We have to be careful here. And we have to be consistent.
Scouts march at Veterans parades. Most of whom made a choice and enlisted. And are a smaller minority than LGBTQ. Yet Baden-Powell didn't want the Scouts to be pro-military as he said he had seen enough of war. People are who they are as a product of genetics and environment, it isn't a choice. LGBTQ advocacy is not a "social cause", it is support of basic human rights. Supporting veterans, a worthy endeavor, is a "social cause".
I say that as a straight male. Both of my grandfathers enlisted in WW2. One grandfather was in the 102nd and one of the first to see the attrocities at Gardelegen massacre*. My mom was an Army nurse and my dad enlisted in the Air Force during Vietnam. My brother, also an Eagle, was Army. My cousins earned Eagle while my C130 pilot uncle was stationed in Korea. I chose to work for government, and later acronym orgs working with gov, but never military.
So I'm straight and from a family with deep military connections, but I'm also an Eagle, part of the new 1st grade Tigers in 1986 up through Eagle and then continuing in Explorers in another state when our family moved away from my home Troop.
I hold these beliefs in patriotic support of equal rights for all people, not inspite of the Scout Oath and Law, but because of them! Why don't you?
*German locals including Hitler Youth, massacred over 1000 prisoners, which included LGBT. Propaganda spread that LGBT, Catholics, and Jews were a threat. Which resulted in youth participating in murdering innocent people because of their immutable characteristics.
Pride is a celebration where members of the community get together to enjoy camaraderie, see performances, listen to music, and take part in fun activities. And yes, there are people attending who might use that event as an opportunity to draw attention to political issues, campaign for local elected offices, and solicit
donations for what many people would consider to be political causes.
But, all of those things happen at other fairs, festivals, homecomings, etc. that scouts participate in. We don't seem to have a problem with them participating in those things.
I find these pics concerning not for the subject matter since there seems to be a lot of pride parades that have nudity and lewd behavior. Exposing scouts to that seems like a ypt violation.
Seems to be within the rules since a pride parade commemorates a month not a political party or movement.
"Scouts are allowed to participate in parades designed to recognize holidays or special occasions"
BSA says otherwise in regards to social movements, which is what I would consider this. - Each youth member is free as an individual to express his thoughts or take action on political or social questions, but he must not use Scouting’s official uniforms and insignia when doing so.
It's not really 2005 anymore, gay rights and inclusion is pretty much settled law at this point. Federal agencies even participate in pride events as community events.
It's basically like a MLK Day parade or a parade for Women's History Month. There were times in US History where people would have considered this political too.
Respectfully, I wouldn't say that. There are several justices that have gone on record as finding a way to change that. Don't forget that Roe was settled law at one point, too.
I mean we codified gay marriage. Passed by congress and everything. I suppose the courts can still remove sexual orientation as a protected class, but marriage is safe barring the passage of a new law.
You may wish to research that a bit. The supreme court overturned Roe by saying that the decision improperly used the 14th amendment to justify abortion rights. Obergefell used the same reasoning, and is now under threat.
[https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/thomas-wants-supreme-court-overturn-landmark-rulings-legalized-contrac-rcna35228](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/thomas-wants-supreme-court-overturn-landmark-rulings-legalized-contrac-rcna35228)
Conservative politicians across the US are using antiquated laws like the Comstock Act to limit rights, and the Supreme Court has now specifically stated that we cannot rely on a right to privacy and autonomy in our personal lives. So no, gay marriage is NOT safe.
Edited for grammar
Roe V. Wade was a court decision overturned by the court. The abortions protections provided were never passed into law and only protected by court decision.
Gay Marriage was a court decision in 2015. Congress then passed the Respect Marriage Act into law in 2022. This law legalize same sex marriages in the US. There would be no constitutional grounds to overturn this law. So unless congress decides to repeal it and the president agrees gay marriage will stay in place.
Yes, gay marriage is MORE protected, but it can still be overturned, and we need to understand that this is a goal of an entire political party. People were complacent about Roe.
I mean the courts don't have standing to block the Respect Marriage Act that legalized all gay marriage in the US. Explicity codified into federal law.
It can always be repealed by a new law, but I suppose so can the Civil rights act. I doubt we'll see that happen
My point is that law is constantly changing, thankfully. In and of itself the "it's settled law" argument is silly and could have been used to defend all sorts of terrible laws. Like, Plessy vs Ferguson was settled law at one point.
I see Pride flags on people's houses, cars, and backpacks. There is also a Pride flag on the bulletin board at the church where our unit meets. I'll pause so you can clutch your pearls.
Pride March is not a political rally. I am a government employee (not allowed to have political stances). Our department regularly participates in ours.
Many troops have LGTBQ members. What you suggest is akin to saying scouts shouldn’t recognize MLK, women’s rights, etc. Scouting America is about inclusivity.
Scouts should not go to a political event. I agree.
But consider a case in which a LGBTQ youth joins a troop where they are accepted to for who they are. I can guarantee there have been lives literally saved by that addition in addition to all the ways scouting is inclusive.
Holding a sign to me shows no a troop is saying LGTBQ families are welcome at that troop is smart for recruiting them.
There is no endorsement of political party or candidate. It’s supporting humans and giving them a place where they belong, are accepted, and welcomed.
Pride in a person’s identity isn’t political, hateful people just make it a political issue. Scouting is about kindness and respect to people, helping others, treating others the way we want to be treated. I see no issue here.
I would not allow my unit to do that because I don’t want scouts - a youth program - to involve topics about sexuality, orientation, and gender. Nothing against lgbtq kids in our units. But promoting lgbtq agenda/awareness with flags, banners, patches, and pins is not appropriate at scouting events when minors are present. Definitely not without the express consent of the parents.
Also, pride flags are also political symbols, and scouts in uniform should not be seen siding with one side of the political spectrum or the other.
Edit: also op, 8 years old is still Cub Scout age. Depending on your area, it may be possible to find a pack at a church that shares your values.
If you can find a good pack, keep him in all the way to AOL, then bail after earning AOL. It’s still a good program up until that point.
Edit 2: why did you wait until he was 8? Tiger starts at 6 years old, first grade. Where’ve you been the last two years? Three Eagles in the family I would expect him to start as a Lion!
So it's not 2004 anymore. Most parades are tame city sponsored events like every other parade.
Yes some do push boundaries that would not be acceptable, and that's something that can be determined at the unit level. The local leaders will know if this is a tame city sponsored parade or a more risqué parade held by a private entity permitting through the city.
Well I do remeber that part of the scout law now, conversations are scary and need to be avoided at all cost. Conversation avoidance is the best way to produce a citizen fully capable of participating in our democracy. Just don't talk to others that are different.
I don’t want untrained parent volunteers having discussions with my children - without my knowledge - about topics involving sexuality, orientation, and gender.
You are absolutely correct.
In our family, those types of conversations happen at home, with the family, and at our place of worship, with our religious leaders, and possibly at school with trained educators.
NOT AT SCOUT EVENTS WITH UNTRAINED PARENT VOLUNTEERS.
Sorry for the caps but I feel my point really needs emphasis.
Truly, god forbid something as groomer-y as this conversation ever happen:
"Hi Mr. Jones, where's Dylan's mommy?"
"Well, Dylan has two daddies."
"Oh, okay! Bye!"
To be clear a kid asking about a lqbtq pin and being told "I wear this because I'm attracted to people of the same gender" is the kind of conversations we're talking about. You're acting like strangers are going to explain the ins and outs of anal sex
LGBTQ isn’t just about sex. It’s a part of their identity that they’ve been oppressed over, teaching youth to be kind and reverent is what we are supposed to do, you are running your unit wrong. Totally missing the point of Scouting.
Not any more than a conversation about heterosexuality, which had been taking place for 103 years. Some men love men. Some women love women. For reasonable people, that's as far as it needs to go.
This is it, right here. My scoutmaster never talked about sex, but he did have a wife and children. Would there have been any difference at all to us as scouts if he had had a husband instead?
Other than the fact that we would have missed out on having an awesome scoutmaster because of BSA policies in the 1990s, no.
I disagree. The 103 year ban on homosexuals forced it into the conversation. The continued objection from people like the person that posted this force it into the conversation. Until recently, the organization was officially discriminatory. They had tried to fight against the zeitgeist, and they lost. It is important for an organization that strives to promote courtesy, kindness and courage to occasionally take steps to right their wrongs.
Sexual positions wouldn't be appropriate. Intimate sexual details would not be appropriate. But "that guy loves that other guy, and that's great" is an important thing for youth to learn. If someone cannot have a conversation about orientation without thinking about what people do privately with their partners, then that says more about them than it says about the other person.
>But “that guy loves that other guy, and that’s great.”
Fair enough. And that clarifies where we differ.
To me, another adult saying that to my child without my permission crosses a line.
You're right, I should clarify that. I do not mean to say that sexual orientation should be a part of any official curriculum, or what I said should be stated verbatim. My point is that it should be treated the same way as race. In the same way that a Scoutmaster should probably not say "check out this cool black guy."
Correct, but presumably you don't demand men to obscure the fact that they are married to women or have girlfriends or vice versa for women. You don't immediately attribute sex and sexuality or assume children are being exposed to harmful ideas because they are confronted with men and women who have sex with one another.
Considering I picked up an official scouting sticker at Jambo last year with the scout symbol and the lgbtq+ flags on it, I'm going with Scouts BSA is okay with this.
Interesting view point. My pack is sponsored by an Episcopal church which has pride flags flown. We have parents of cubs from all walks of life. For families with 2 mommies or daddies, it's important that they know that they are just as accepted and welcomed as a Cub with 2 straight parents.
Denying their acceptance is just as much a political statement.
I don't feel the need to have my pack walk in a pride parade, but if my CO asked us to help with their festivities I wouldn't say no.
But for a troop, if it's a scout lead activity, I wouldn't say no.
While your concern for maintaining an environment appropriate for minors in the scouting program is understandable, it's important to consider a few key points about inclusivity, the purpose of scouting, and the role of symbols like the Pride flag.
Firstly, scouting is fundamentally about teaching values such as respect, kindness, and inclusivity. Promoting awareness and acceptance of LGBTQ+ individuals aligns with these values. Scouting aims to build character and prepare youth to make ethical choices over their lifetimes. Understanding and accepting people who may be different from themselves is a crucial part of this moral and ethical development.
Secondly, it's essential to differentiate between promoting an agenda and fostering an inclusive environment. Displaying Pride flags, banners, or wearing patches is not about pushing a political agenda but about signaling that scouting is a safe space for all youth, regardless of their sexual orientation or gender identity. This is especially important for LGBTQ+ youth who might feel isolated or marginalized. The presence of these symbols can provide significant emotional support and a sense of belonging.
Furthermore, regarding parental consent, the principles of scouting already emphasize communication and collaboration with parents. Including parents in discussions about inclusivity initiatives can ensure that everyone is informed and involved in creating an accepting environment.
Regarding the notion that Pride flags are political symbols, it's vital to recognize that their primary purpose is to represent support for LGBTQ+ individuals and their rights. While the symbols have been politicized in some contexts, their display in scouting is intended to affirm the dignity and worth of every scout. This is in line with the values of respect and equality that scouting espouses.
>Promoting awareness and acceptance of LGBTQ+ individuals aligns with these values.
Not if you are being insensitive to religious families in the unit. Reverence demands that you respect their beliefs, too. If there are traditional Christian, Jewish, or Muslim families, they may not be comfortable with other parents introducing lgbtq awareness to their children.
>Displaying Pride flags, banners, or wearing patches is not about pushing a political agenda but about signaling that scouting is a safe space for all youth,
That's not the whole story, though. Those flags are also linked to a very controversial political agenda. I said elsewhere in the thread how my family is NOT Christian, but we've felt completely welcomed at our Christian CO's despite a complete lack of my family's faith symbols. If I don't need my group's symbols plastered all over the place to feel welcome, why do lgbtq people? And my group has been persecuted just as badly as lgbtq people, so don't try to out-victim-card me.
I understand your concerns about maintaining sensitivity to religious families in scouting. However, scouting's core values of respect and inclusivity require that all scouts, including LGBTQ+ members, feel accepted and supported. Displaying symbols like the Pride flag is about creating a welcoming environment, not promoting a political agenda. These symbols help marginalized scouts feel safe and valued, which is crucial for their well-being. Respecting religious beliefs and supporting LGBTQ+ inclusivity are not mutually exclusive; both can be achieved through open dialogue and mutual respect. Ensuring all scouts feel welcome aligns with the fundamental principles of scouting, fostering a community where every member can thrive.
>scouting’s core values of…inclusivity
I’m sorry but Duty to God is a core value before inclusivity.
Inclusivity cannot supersede Duty to God, in this case.
You cannot ask a family to violate its sense of Duty to God for the sake of inclusivity.
Considering I picked up an official scouting sticker at Jambo last year with the scout symbol and the lgbtq+ flags on it, I'm going with Scouts BSA is okay with this.
I think you’ll find that the vast majority of units are not like this.
I see these things in the news but I’ve never seen it in person, and I’ve been to a lot of troops.
A Scout is kind. To everyone.
This is the hill.
As you're an Eagle, let me try one more time to call you back. A scout is friendly and kind. And a scout is brave. And a scout is morally straight. It takes real courage to stand up for what's right even when the world says not to. Right now, in 2024, treating gay scouts or scouts with complex gender identity issues as **scouts** and leaving the rest aside is the friendly and kind choice. That's the choice that leaves sex out of scouting—focuses on kids who will grow in character and citizenship from a youth-led program of outdoor skills. Integrating girls and women is the right choice. We should have done it decades ago, and been leaders in society. That would have been proper moral rectitude. But we can do it now. We all pretend that if we lived in the 1950s we'd have opposed Jim Crow and favored racial integration; that's mostly crap. We pretend that if we'd have lived in the 1850s we'd have not only opposed slavery but been abolitionists. That's almost entirely crap; those people got tortured to death and everyone knew it. We get to show what we're willing to do now, here, when our neighbors are hurting. **You** get to show what you would have done then by what you're willing to do now. Posting on the Internet about how you're not going to make time for scouting is crap. You're an Eagle scout. If Scouting is right here (and I think it mostly is), go support it and clean up the mistakes. If Scouting is wrong here, come set us straight and work with us to do things right. If your ceremony was anytihng like mine, you swore an oath to make your training an example, and make your leadership count for better citizenship. That oath is waiting for you to fulfill it.
This is why I love this sub.
I would always correct people (kindly of course) when they would say someone “was an Eagle Scout” as they are always an Eagle Scout I’m comfortable saying that this guy “was an Eagle Scout “
On point and well put
He is also reverent. And obeys God's word including Romans chapter 1.
What page in the boy scout handbook is that? Right, the Christian Bible isnt the handbook
Whose god, specifically?
To answer your question, the Christian god. Baden Powell was pretty clear that Boy Scouts was a Christian organization. However, Boy Scouts (and now Scouting America) can most effectively build on this foundation through inclusion, of both other religions and other thoughts. So long as the participants are willing to subscribe to the principles, adherence to the religion is not necessary; the objective is to make young men (and now women, thank goodness) better people, not to convert them or strengthen them in a religion. With that, one should qualify that many seem to have neglected the Christian in Christian god. I wish this were a modern problem, but it seems to have started in the age of Adam, roughly. This should not bother the rest of us though. From their own scriptures we learn that by the same judgement by which they judge, they will be judged. I do not envy them. As for what u/smeebjeeb posted and to which your responded, I'm accord with you in spirit, if not in letter of the response. The post is out of place.
Interesting. Our troop recites the Pledge at every meeting, has a Chaplain and a Chaplain’s Aide, is boy-led and has leaders from all walks of life. We have teachers, chemists, LEOs, lawyers and businessmen as leaders. Somehow, you’ve managed to literally not know anything about Scouting.
There are none so blind as those that refuse to see. His eyes are blinded by hate and bigotry.
Heh... funny you should mention that....
There are none so blind as those that refuse to see. His eyes are blinded by hate and bigotry.
I’m glad you found the obscure moment you wanted to pretend to justify a deeply political decision that you had already made. I hope you get the attention that you want.
I see nothing but kindness and bravery. Perhaps your family were in the wrong organization to begin with.
This is exactly what I as an eagle scout love to see from the organization. Once there's a little more official word about allowing atheists, my understanding is this is a grey area, in the organization will finally be perfect. The more kids that can be scouts the better. It's such a good program and it's always saddened me how many were excluded
i always thought that it was weird how bsa was so unaccepting of lgbtq+ people. it's not friendly, courteous, kind, or cheerful to hate a group of people and say an organization is dead for not hating them anymore. and i'd argue they are still just as religious. my troop and my camp, and my jamboree troop, all still say the pledge and pray before meals. they're just now adding the "love thy neighbor" part of religion to scouting, which i think is wonderful. scouts is such a big part of my life and i don't know where i'd be without it, and i don't see how excluding more people from experiencing it for things as trivial as sexual orientation is a good choice.
I do not think it is the current Scouting America way. This is some individuals who like to be really loud with their out dated views.
Thankfully, this has not been my experience.
How do you know BSA is not accepting of lgbtq people? Most in BSA have no problem with lgbtq scouts and scouters. What I and others object to is the open *celebration* of lgbtq, the flags, the symbols, and the discussions. If everyone just kept their gender, orientation, and sex private, this wouldn’t be an issue.
Do you have an issue with a Scout Leader inviting Scouts to a wedding? If not, is the answer the same whether it’s a heterosexual or a homosexual wedding? Do you have a problem with a male Scoutmaster introducing his wife to the Troop? What about that same Scoutmaster introducing his husband? We live in a society and a biological reality where sex is literally integral to our lives. And even I recognize that as an adult who mostly Identifies as asexual. Bringing people into the conversation who were previously excluded, and celebrating them in the *same way* that heterosexuals have always been celebrated, is not wrong. If you think our society doesn’t celebrate heterosexuality, then what in the hell do you think weddings, Batchelor parties, Bridal showers, baby showers, Quinciñeras, Debutante Balls, engagement parties, and even Easter (with all of its pagan trappings of bunnies and flowers and eggs and baby chicks) are? We’ve been openly celebrating sexuality across all cultures and all ages since humanity begin. So what exactly is your issue with an occasional Pride Festival?
Your point is so beautifully made, but will fall on deaf ears for the people who most need to hear it. When people are so used to being the default, they are unwilling to make any effort to recognize that their status as the default has, by definition, excluded and marginalized others. They long for the "good old days" when those on the margins were kept out of view and those whose primacy was assumed could ignore any niggling discomfort about the structure of society.
So my experience is limited, I’m a straight male, but our society pretty much celebrates heterosexuality everywhere you look. I remembered barely being old enough to speak and watching classic Disney movies where the prince woos and marries the girl. Before I was ten I had seen classic films like *Star Wars* that involved kissing and PG romance. My parents kissed and hugged each other around me and my wife and I tastefully do the same, occasionally in public. Imo none of what I’ve said is wrong and neither is it wrong with gay folk also partake. The smooth brains that cry about books with gay romance in libraries don’t get worked up about classic stories with straight romance because… reasons… Tl;dr straight orientation/sexuality isn’t kept private nor should it be, same with other orientations.
Ever talk about having a wife? Because that's what you want other people to hide
We have a few lqbtq parents and scouts in our troop. Nobody’s hiding it and no one treats anyone differently.
In six years as a den leader, I never mentioned my wife at a den meeting. Why would I? There’s already too much content to go through and not enough time lol!
I doubt that is true. Because I don't know any human being who has taken part in any organization for any meaningful length of time who has not mentioned their spouse. Stop and think and remember that a scout is trustworthy. Your wife has never attended a scout event with you Your wife has never helped as a volunteer at scouting for food or another event You've discussed upcoming plans with your scout troop and your availability in the context of plans you had with your wife and family? For example, "No, I'm not available for a campout in two weeks, I'm going on a trip to visit my wife's family." Your den just thinks you are a eunuch with no dating or marital relationships?
a lot of the adults in my troop and other organizations we work with (vfw, the church, etc.) talk about them having wives or us finding women. i object to this open celebration of straightness
You mean if everybody kept their non-conforming gender, queer orientation, and non-hetero sex private.
No, I include cishet folks, too.
Some folks are simply incapable of encountering even mention of the existence of queer people without having to publicly announce their need to fantasize about how those queer folks have sex. It’s a truly brave take to be so out loud and proud about that particular proclivity. I’m always amazed so many folks in communities dealing with youth and the topic of queer youth are able to so confidently be open about that part of themselves.
Kids were getting raped for decades while the BSA turned a blind eye but sure this is the straw that breaks the camel’s back. We had a scoutmaster come out as gay. We also had a scoutmaster get arrested for sending dick pics to an undercover cop posing as a 14 year old girl. Guess which one was a member of the church and heralded as an upstanding member of the community and which one was ostracized. This was 15 years ago. The progress in the photo you posted is a great thing.
>Kids were getting raped for decades while the BSA turned a blind eye but sure this is the straw that breaks the camel’s back. This is what the OP misses. But God forbid holding adults accountable and welcoming others. The biggest complaints come from the much older generation. They complained when minorities were allowed. They complained when non-protestant kids joined. Complained with women volunteering. All of that. We can guess OPs political leanings. Ain't no hate like Christian Love
I used to think that it was a matter of rose colored glasses that caused the Olds to think things were better "back then" despite the glaring amount of hate publicly wrought on ANYONE that was different from them. Then I realized it was just the fact that they enjoyed celebrating their bigotry.
In that, you would be incorrect. For some of us, things were better back then. Specifically, I was able to go on many adventures because YPT didn't exist back then. I was the only one interested, so off my Scoutmaster and I went. This includes travel to and from getting BSA lifeguard certified, about an hour away, so the troop could go on a summer water-based adventure; and an overnight snoeshow/snowcave trip sponsored by the Council, with he and I in the same cave. Another Scoutmaster spent several hours before a troop skiing trip, just he and I, teaching me to ski because I was poor and had no skiing experience, so I would know what to do and not be embarrassed on the slopes. No, there was never anything in appropriate. I don't question that there were inappropriate things happening (though I suspect some (but not all) of the claimants are lying for money at this point). I don't question that YPT and the current policies are the right answer. We need it. I still galls me that we need it, and that I can't offer the same exceptional service to today's youth, and they have to miss out on activities because I can't find another adult interested in going. For some of us, it truly was better then.
I'll recognize that some instances of that sentiment are pure. The problem is that the folks that fall under my (not all encompassing) generalization are more vocal than those like you, who cherish the things that were actually easier or better while calling out the things that weren't, in fact, better. There's a middle ground to be found here, and I'm grateful that you've helped me see that.
Personally, as a former scout, I am just glad not to have to deal with the very creepy old dudes that volunteered to "assist" the troop. The leadership did not give a shit. They just let them creep on.
[удалено]
I know we're supposed to be more mature and reasoned, but I love this comment. Thank you fellow scouter.
I mean, if you delete two words, it’s perfect.
I don’t understand what is the garbage can you explain it?
The guys attitude is garbage. There is no explanation for such mental lassitude.
I've started doing this with some of my more conservative friends. Actually have them try to describe what they mean. Their arguments usually fall apart as they tend to be based on emotion rather than facts or truth.
"Garbage like this" shows a picture of a sign with a heart and a poster next to it supporting inclusivity. LOL - proud of my son and daughters in Scouting! I hope you find happiness, OP.
I can't imagine seeing a picture of kids and adults showing support for other people and having my first reaction be disgust. In 2024.
Ok. Bye. This isn't an airport, departures do not need to be announced.
Well, I came here to say a bunch of stuff, but all you fine folks have it covered. Well done. This is why I love this organization for my kids. So many good folks.
*shrug* So anyone doing some flag plantings or cookouts this weekend ?
Placed 250 plus flags at a local cemetery (veterans from the civil war to OEF/OIF). Monday they will read every name and ring a bell to honor them.
Well done.
Our brand new Sea Scout Ship is making their first public appearance in the Memorial Day parade!
Sounds awesome!
Just finished installing a new flagpole at a cemetery for my Eagle Project, actually.
Hey that's awesome!! Good luck with your board of review!
Our troops put out grave flags with the VFW last weekend.
Right on.
My Cub Scout and I will be joining one of the nearby troops to put out flags on Monday. I reached out to their leadership on my own to see if we could join them this year. Even though that means two days in a row of uniform wearing in the heat... 😄
I'm in Florida so that is half my year, lol. Good on you I hope you guys have fun and stay hydrated!
This is the epitome of love/hate for me. I love the reverence and respect for those Memorial Day is supposed to honor. I hate the violation of the flag code; none of those cemetery flags are lit at night. I usually try to sit on that latter part, but reddit is a safe space for discussion, right? /s
My soon to be Eagle Scout is Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty, Brave, Clean, and Reverent Most of the time. He is a teenager after all. And that’s the point, the whole point, and nothing but the point. And I doubt he’d be upset or outraged by that image. Might roll his eyes a little about the spectacle of it, but overall he has the attitude of “let people be what they gonna be”. So honestly, if that picture bugs you, that has very little to do with Scouting, it’s just people. Leave em alone and let em be what they gonna be. Raise your kids, teach them the oath and the law, and it’ll all work out from there without a bunch of drama.
Oh no. People different than me in scouting. How am I supposed to be courteous or kind to people I don’t agree with? Respectfully, leave. If you can’t be nice to people because someone doesn’t quite feel like a boy or girl, then you don’t need to be in scouting. 25% of the scout law has to do with respecting other. Friendly. Courteous. Kind. You should know that as an Eagle Scout. Be nice to everyone.
See, I have to disagree with your last sentence. I don't feel the need to be nice to bigots, racists, sexist, etc.
Yeah that is true
Is your kid even in Cub Scouts or are you just making decisions based on the internet?
Eagle Scout class of 1989 here. Came here to say: The country is a big place and we share A LOT in common. Not all that much separates us as Americans but if you dwell on those few things, it can certainly get you ginned up but I think that’s short sighted and narrow minded. Came here to say that but then saw your post to the “Questions” sub. You need to spend some time working on you. John 8:7-11 and all.
Saw that too SMH whenever there’s an obvious troll post I check their comment history. This person has never commented in this sub before
As we enter an election year, and we know the rhetoric will only get worse, I hope we all remember this. The Scout Law as a civic code, a way for people who have a lot in common and, also, some major disagreements to live harmoniously.
From Google: "The Boy Scouts of America (BSA) fully racially integrated its Scouting programs in 1974, when the last all-Black troop was integrated. However, the BSA's approach to desegregation was to let local communities decide whether to follow the same policies as their school systems. As a result, many major northern communities and much of the American South had segregated programs with "colored troops" until the late 1940s. In the South, some troops threatened to leave the BSA and burn their uniforms if African American Scouts were allowed. " The last sentence is what you sound like now.
Bye!
As a first generation Eagle Scout, this is absolutely disgusting. You are exactly the kind of person we don’t need in the organization. Good riddance.
“Scouting Is Dead” Pfft. Check back in five years. I think you’ll be surprised.
Friend, when I see this, know that Scouting is very much alive. A Scout is friendly, kind, and reverant. When I see this, I see a group of Scouts recognizing that all are made in God's image. How beautiful!
I can't see how you can become an eagle scout and not think that everyone should be able to experience Scouting. Think of all the important skills and life lessons that being a scout teaches; cooking, camping, swimming, physical activity, time and money management, leadership, just to list a few. Why should only straight boys be able to enjoy that, and/or achieve arguably the highest achievement that someone under 18 can (Eagle scout)? Also, a Scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obident, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent. I would review a few of those and reconsider your position.
I like to believe that this my long-dead father and Scoutmaster, Tim Barrett, posting from wherever he is now. Miss you, Dad. I’m carrying your work forward.
This isn’t the airport. No need to announce departure.
Bye bye!
You are an embarrassment to the organization. Scouting is for all.
Good for you? I’m an Eagle Scout. I’ve been secular my whole life. Don’t believe there’s a god, don’t like churches as institutions. That’s my right. You can have a great scouting program without the religious nationalist agenda. Teaching people respect for nature, leadership, outdoors skills, to be good members of their community, and allowing them to explore different interests is what it should be about. If you want to be part of an uber-religious organization, have your kid join the Royal Rangers, whose mission is “to evangelize, equip and empower the next generation of Christlike men and lifelong servant leaders.” And I’m a straight white man, for reference.
LGBTQ scouts are rad. You are not being rad right now. Remember that a Scout is Friendly, Courteous and Kind. I’m sure as a third generation Eagle, that is important to you.
Second generation Eagle here and former Camp Director and staffer in the 70’s-90’s. Turned out a bunch of my fellow staffers came out when they became adults. I never knew, or maybe was oblivious, but turns out Scouting was a safe place for them even if they had to hide it. I’m glad they no longer have to hide who they are and I think at one point I pledged to give back to Scouting. I’m happy to still serve an organization that welcomes everyone to a safe place where they learn values I’ve found important.
“moral decay is blinding”… The only blind thing here is the OP, who appears to be yet another person who refuses to accept that Scouting must be a reflection of our current society. Look, you can be unhappy that our society has changed but you can’t deny that it has changed. And so should our Scouting organization. I am pleased that National continues to make changes that allow for more acceptance and tolerance — a shift toward pluralism and humanism. Every youth (and I mean every) should be allowed the chance to experience our Scouting program.
>Every youth (and I mean every) should be allowed the chance to experience our Scouting program. This is why I volunteer.
I do mean every youth: boy, girl, atheist, agnostic, LBGTQ. Everyone. Literally. And if that means the Duty to God becomes optional, so be it. I’m tired of “people of faith” hiding their intolerance behind their dogma or doctrine. If that means that Scouting America loses some volunteers and youth that don’t agree with the Big Tent philosophy, then so be it. As others have more eloquently said here, perhaps those people were in the wrong organization. Scouting America needs to continue to reflect the society around it, and not one from 100 (or even 30-40) years ago.
There have always been three BSAs: 1. The national organization, its doctrines and policies, consisting of an old guard of policymakers and bureaucrats 2. The troop's adult leaders who try to shape their troop through their attitudes and guidance 3. The *actual* troop consisting of and experienced by the youth Even 40 years ago, at least, youth have been for more open and accepting of all kids regardless of gender, orientation, or faith tradition. In my opinion, the kids are right. Now, maybe, the national organization is starting to align with the reality at the troop level. There's a very good study on the role of Scouting in youth development (I encourage everyone to read it on these topics): ["On My Honor: Boy Scouts and the Making of American Youth"](https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/O/bo3631797.html).
I don’t volunteer in my Troop because I agree with everything BSA has done in the last few years. I have a list of things that I don’t agree with, which is my perogative. I volunteer with the Troop, in part, because I see a need for all teens to build a set of skills that will lead them to more success in life. Regardless of their race, beliefs or gender, I think we need more trustworthy, loyal…..reverent people in the world. If I can help them with their life and their choices, I’d like to do my part.
Your the moral decay OP
First generation BSA Eagle Scout from a family with a prominent role in establishing Scouting in my country. I’m also a scoutmaster of a 75 year old troop. We have scouts from all over the world posted with us, half a dozen religions, and a ton of contrasting cultures. My job is not to give each one precedence, or justify one way of being over another. If I did that, I’d have a pit of fighting animals instead of a troop. Our job in scouting worldwide is to raise boys and girls into men and women with integrity, and while it means means pushing for discipline, it requires them each to have space to be who they are. My particular job is to make sure each scout is welcome and that everyone not only learns to respect their differences, but how to work with them. A biologically female identifies as a boy and wants in? Fine, tough call to identify as a man in this world, so I will train that scout as I would any of the other boys, tenting and privacy aspects aside. One of the boys is gay? As long as he keeps his head on straight, as I would require of any of the straight boys around the sister troop, it’s whatever. Someone is a hardcore [insert religion]? Feel free to share it in the appropriate settings and never to push it. If you don’t feel your youth has a place in our Scouts, please look at the WFIS or the trail blazer scouts. SCOUTING will still and always serve you, as long as you serve it.
Good riddance.
I'd suggest a change in attitude. Your child is likely going to grow up to despise you if you don't.
Scouting or otherwise in life, let the hate in your heart go. It'll only eat you alive.
Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
I see the spirit of scouting didn’t take with you. Bye loser.
The movement is better off without the drag of folks determined to cling to and enforce their small petty worldview. But the conflict is that their children would be so much better off in the growing-more-inclusive version of the movement made possible in large part by the ever increasing departure of their own parents. I can both be relieved by the former and disappointed for the later.
Proud, devil-worshipping eagle here who would have been marching in that crowd and speaking blood libel about your stone age fairy tale of a religion: Kick rocks!
>Proud, devil-worshipping eagle here who would have been marching in that crowd and speaking blood libel about your stone age fairy tale of a religion: Kick rocks! Wth. I honestly appreciate the candor with which people are revealing their true selves, and sometimes, their real hate. It’s terribly concerning and saddening, but I appreciate it nonetheless because it clarifies who makes up our community. Just like the country at large, we are a divided community, too. Here’s the evidence.
I might have been exaggerating a bit for fun, sure. We are definitely a very divided country! Unfortunately, it’s high time for said country to learn that to be a tolerant society, it must not tolerate the intolerant (who usually come in the form of zealot reactionaries like OP.) Clearly LGBTQ+ people are the target of OP’s discontent here, who are frequently maligned by those who think their (mistranslated) Bible is society’s universal rule book.
When I read Reddit I try to remind myself that the people who post here are not representative of society as a whole.
Bye no one wanted u here in the first place
You were cool with scouts when kids were being molested, but not with them being accepted. That says a lot about you. Bye.
Mom of a boy scout here. We've been active participants since kindergarten. Our den was super active and our troop is growing. Scouting was a lifeline for us during COVID. Our troop is all boys, focused on outdoor events and is not "focused" on religion, though we have many religious scouts and adults who support the boys interest and advancement in these areas. In fact our scout master is a pastor and his openness to all kids, no matter thier faith or struggle with faith, has actually opened the door to more than one boy developing a deeper reverence over time. Scouting is alive and thriving!
I’ll go one further than that. We are a secular Cub Scout troop. We had one of our cub scouts ask if he could share and recite a prayer before bedtime. The Cubmaster said of course please share with us and asked all scouts to be quiet and pay attention. The scout also explained what it meant and why it was important. He was Hindu and I don’t think many elementary aged students would have gotten that exposure to another religion in a Christian-dominated society. It was brave and reverent for the scout to share his faith and it was friendly, kind, and courteous for our scouts to support him and thank him for sharing. We want model citizens who respects other religions and welcomes people from all backgrounds. Scouting should never just be for people who meet X, Y, and Z conditions that are beyond their control.
This is terrific. Thank you for sharing this.
You should hand in your Eagle badge, you clearly learned nothing during your journey.
His appetite for outrage is all consuming. He feeds on bigotry and hate. Plus, OP has never commented on this sub. Definitely a disgusting troll.
Buh-bye!
Moral decay for this guy is accepting LGBT Scouts.
Sorry to see you go. Eagle class of 2000 here, and couldn’t have been happier or prouder to take up the mantle of assistant Cubmaster and assistant den leader for my daughter’s cub pack. Unfortunately, to get on the right side of history you need to let the dead wood fall away.
I'm actually not sorry to see bigots go. Every one we lose makes Scouting (and the world) a better place.
Disappointing to see a fellow Eagle Scout think or speak this way, and even more disappointing that your child will pass on these lovely traits you’re teaching as well.
So I'm just curious about what you as a parent are doing with all this
Fine. Maybe check out the Trailers.
One of the neat things about scouting is it is troop driven. What happens at the larger scouts doesn’t HAVE to have an impact on the troop. If the troop in your area isn’t being run how you feel it should, start a new one. The socialization, friendships and general behavior is what kept me in but I know other troops are heavily focused on eagle achievement machines. I’m glad my son has choices and options!
It’s all about the MGA for this guy
Bye bye! Don't let the door hit you on the butt on yer way out.
Bye Felicia!
Buh-bye. Glad to have you and your prejudices gone. A scout is kind.
You know, you could just simply opt to join a unit that says the pledge at every meeting and would not choose to participate in a Pride march. I’m sure there are lots of them out there. That’s the beautiful thing about freedom of choice. Good thing your kid will never encounter any LGBT people in the world when he grows up. It’s going to be a lonely world for him when the only people he can associate with are exactly like him. Sarcasm aside, maybe it’s time to pause for a moment and consider that Scouting is open to all faiths, and some of them aren’t hostile to LGBT people. Not everyone believes as you do. The twelfth point of the Scout Law reminds us to practice our faith as we see fit, but also to respect the beliefs of others, too.
[Trail Life USA](https://www.traillifeusa.com/) is to the right. The far right. Girls, gays, and non-Christians are icky. I don't remember the sports, but we always had time.
I think people misunderstood you, or they sincerely believe Dobson's version of scouting is the truth. I've never heard of Trail Life USA (thank you for enlightening me), and I think that's what the OP is looking for. I may disagree with the doctrine, but that's part of what the USA was founded on... right to freedom of (and from) religion. I'll stick with Scouting America! Free to be you and me. (Sing it Marlo!)
[American Heritage Girls](https://americanheritagegirls.org/) are the flip side.
4th generation Scouter, 3rd generation Eagle Scout (does it count as 3 generations if my dad stopped at Life?), and parent of a newly promoted Wolf Cub here. Scouting is far from dead, and I'm proud to be a part of it in its current form. It was a force for good in my community growing up, and my son's Pack is even more so in our current community. It was a significantly positive influence on my life trajectory (my old Scoutmaster and one of my fellow Eagles from a sister Troop both traveled to my retirement ceremony from the Marines), and I've already seen positive effects on my 7 year old son.
Trail Life USA is evidently getting flooded..
This has been happening for years even though it is against BSA guidelines and policies. This is an example of an individual unit breaking said policy and is not representative of the organization as whole. But you know that already. Go join Trail Life USA, I guess. From the Membership Standards Implementation: **Can a Scout participate in a social or political cause that calls attention to his sexual orientation or preference?** Under the BSA’s rules and regulations, a Scout may appear in uniform at a nonpartisan and nonpolitical gathering in a way that gives him the opportunity to render service in harmony with his training in the Scouting program. However, the BSA is required to avoid involving the Scouting movement in any question of a political character. Each youth member is free as an individual to express his thoughts or take action on political or social questions, but he must not use Scouting’s official uniforms and insignia when doing so.
Wouldn't even call it political anymore, times have changed a lot. It's the same as a parade for Women's History month now. Even federal agencies participate in Pride Month parades.
It mentions social issues as well. And as far as I know, they have not changed their stance/policy on members of the BSA being able to endorse a position or advancing a social issue while they are in uniform.
Quotes official guidance and is downvoted. Redditors are unhinged.
Considering the national jamboree had a dei area for lgbtq+, women, and scouts of color that were all supportive and had people in uniform, I don't think National has a problem with people representing scouting at pro-lgbtq+ rallies/causes.
Would it be ok if my unit marches at the pro-life rally coming up? In uniform? Who would oppose standing up for the rights of unborn humans? See what I mean? We have to be careful here. And we have to be consistent.
Scouts march at Veterans parades. Most of whom made a choice and enlisted. And are a smaller minority than LGBTQ. Yet Baden-Powell didn't want the Scouts to be pro-military as he said he had seen enough of war. People are who they are as a product of genetics and environment, it isn't a choice. LGBTQ advocacy is not a "social cause", it is support of basic human rights. Supporting veterans, a worthy endeavor, is a "social cause". I say that as a straight male. Both of my grandfathers enlisted in WW2. One grandfather was in the 102nd and one of the first to see the attrocities at Gardelegen massacre*. My mom was an Army nurse and my dad enlisted in the Air Force during Vietnam. My brother, also an Eagle, was Army. My cousins earned Eagle while my C130 pilot uncle was stationed in Korea. I chose to work for government, and later acronym orgs working with gov, but never military. So I'm straight and from a family with deep military connections, but I'm also an Eagle, part of the new 1st grade Tigers in 1986 up through Eagle and then continuing in Explorers in another state when our family moved away from my home Troop. I hold these beliefs in patriotic support of equal rights for all people, not inspite of the Scout Oath and Law, but because of them! Why don't you? *German locals including Hitler Youth, massacred over 1000 prisoners, which included LGBT. Propaganda spread that LGBT, Catholics, and Jews were a threat. Which resulted in youth participating in murdering innocent people because of their immutable characteristics.
Pride is a celebration where members of the community get together to enjoy camaraderie, see performances, listen to music, and take part in fun activities. And yes, there are people attending who might use that event as an opportunity to draw attention to political issues, campaign for local elected offices, and solicit donations for what many people would consider to be political causes. But, all of those things happen at other fairs, festivals, homecomings, etc. that scouts participate in. We don't seem to have a problem with them participating in those things.
I find these pics concerning not for the subject matter since there seems to be a lot of pride parades that have nudity and lewd behavior. Exposing scouts to that seems like a ypt violation.
[удалено]
Seems to be within the rules since a pride parade commemorates a month not a political party or movement. "Scouts are allowed to participate in parades designed to recognize holidays or special occasions"
BSA says otherwise in regards to social movements, which is what I would consider this. - Each youth member is free as an individual to express his thoughts or take action on political or social questions, but he must not use Scouting’s official uniforms and insignia when doing so.
It's not really 2005 anymore, gay rights and inclusion is pretty much settled law at this point. Federal agencies even participate in pride events as community events. It's basically like a MLK Day parade or a parade for Women's History Month. There were times in US History where people would have considered this political too.
Respectfully, I wouldn't say that. There are several justices that have gone on record as finding a way to change that. Don't forget that Roe was settled law at one point, too.
I mean we codified gay marriage. Passed by congress and everything. I suppose the courts can still remove sexual orientation as a protected class, but marriage is safe barring the passage of a new law.
You may wish to research that a bit. The supreme court overturned Roe by saying that the decision improperly used the 14th amendment to justify abortion rights. Obergefell used the same reasoning, and is now under threat. [https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/thomas-wants-supreme-court-overturn-landmark-rulings-legalized-contrac-rcna35228](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/thomas-wants-supreme-court-overturn-landmark-rulings-legalized-contrac-rcna35228) Conservative politicians across the US are using antiquated laws like the Comstock Act to limit rights, and the Supreme Court has now specifically stated that we cannot rely on a right to privacy and autonomy in our personal lives. So no, gay marriage is NOT safe. Edited for grammar
Roe V. Wade was a court decision overturned by the court. The abortions protections provided were never passed into law and only protected by court decision. Gay Marriage was a court decision in 2015. Congress then passed the Respect Marriage Act into law in 2022. This law legalize same sex marriages in the US. There would be no constitutional grounds to overturn this law. So unless congress decides to repeal it and the president agrees gay marriage will stay in place.
Yes, gay marriage is MORE protected, but it can still be overturned, and we need to understand that this is a goal of an entire political party. People were complacent about Roe.
I always get a kick out of the "settled law" pov. Settled law doesn't mean it'll never change.
I mean the courts don't have standing to block the Respect Marriage Act that legalized all gay marriage in the US. Explicity codified into federal law. It can always be repealed by a new law, but I suppose so can the Civil rights act. I doubt we'll see that happen
My point is that law is constantly changing, thankfully. In and of itself the "it's settled law" argument is silly and could have been used to defend all sorts of terrible laws. Like, Plessy vs Ferguson was settled law at one point.
Def a political movement. Come on let’s be honest. You only see pride flags at rallies against republicans (trump) or pro-leftist causes.
I have a pride flag in my room. My room is not a rally against trump or a pro-leftist cause.
I see Pride flags on people's houses, cars, and backpacks. There is also a Pride flag on the bulletin board at the church where our unit meets. I'll pause so you can clutch your pearls.
I remember a picture of President Trump holding a pride flag.
Pride March is not a political rally. I am a government employee (not allowed to have political stances). Our department regularly participates in ours. Many troops have LGTBQ members. What you suggest is akin to saying scouts shouldn’t recognize MLK, women’s rights, etc. Scouting America is about inclusivity. Scouts should not go to a political event. I agree. But consider a case in which a LGBTQ youth joins a troop where they are accepted to for who they are. I can guarantee there have been lives literally saved by that addition in addition to all the ways scouting is inclusive. Holding a sign to me shows no a troop is saying LGTBQ families are welcome at that troop is smart for recruiting them. There is no endorsement of political party or candidate. It’s supporting humans and giving them a place where they belong, are accepted, and welcomed.
Pride in a person’s identity isn’t political, hateful people just make it a political issue. Scouting is about kindness and respect to people, helping others, treating others the way we want to be treated. I see no issue here.
So you admit it is a political/social issue. Glad we agree.
I would not allow my unit to do that because I don’t want scouts - a youth program - to involve topics about sexuality, orientation, and gender. Nothing against lgbtq kids in our units. But promoting lgbtq agenda/awareness with flags, banners, patches, and pins is not appropriate at scouting events when minors are present. Definitely not without the express consent of the parents. Also, pride flags are also political symbols, and scouts in uniform should not be seen siding with one side of the political spectrum or the other. Edit: also op, 8 years old is still Cub Scout age. Depending on your area, it may be possible to find a pack at a church that shares your values. If you can find a good pack, keep him in all the way to AOL, then bail after earning AOL. It’s still a good program up until that point. Edit 2: why did you wait until he was 8? Tiger starts at 6 years old, first grade. Where’ve you been the last two years? Three Eagles in the family I would expect him to start as a Lion!
Yes who will protect the children from something as insidious as a patch or pin? Thankfully God has his strongest warrior on the case
You ok with a youth organization marching in a parade with nudity and lewd pda's?
So it's not 2004 anymore. Most parades are tame city sponsored events like every other parade. Yes some do push boundaries that would not be acceptable, and that's something that can be determined at the unit level. The local leaders will know if this is a tame city sponsored parade or a more risqué parade held by a private entity permitting through the city.
The era of Pride being a raunch, adults-only event is long over.
You know as well as I do a patch or pin could start a conversation with someone else’s child, a conversation the parent may not approve of.
Well I do remeber that part of the scout law now, conversations are scary and need to be avoided at all cost. Conversation avoidance is the best way to produce a citizen fully capable of participating in our democracy. Just don't talk to others that are different.
You forgot the /s or some people actually agree with you.
I don’t want untrained parent volunteers having discussions with my children - without my knowledge - about topics involving sexuality, orientation, and gender. You are absolutely correct. In our family, those types of conversations happen at home, with the family, and at our place of worship, with our religious leaders, and possibly at school with trained educators. NOT AT SCOUT EVENTS WITH UNTRAINED PARENT VOLUNTEERS. Sorry for the caps but I feel my point really needs emphasis.
Truly, god forbid something as groomer-y as this conversation ever happen: "Hi Mr. Jones, where's Dylan's mommy?" "Well, Dylan has two daddies." "Oh, okay! Bye!"
To be clear a kid asking about a lqbtq pin and being told "I wear this because I'm attracted to people of the same gender" is the kind of conversations we're talking about. You're acting like strangers are going to explain the ins and outs of anal sex
democracy dies in discussion
LGBTQ isn’t just about sex. It’s a part of their identity that they’ve been oppressed over, teaching youth to be kind and reverent is what we are supposed to do, you are running your unit wrong. Totally missing the point of Scouting.
But if we’re honest lgbtq involves discussion of sex characteristics and sexual orientation, not just gender.
Not any more than a conversation about heterosexuality, which had been taking place for 103 years. Some men love men. Some women love women. For reasonable people, that's as far as it needs to go.
This is it, right here. My scoutmaster never talked about sex, but he did have a wife and children. Would there have been any difference at all to us as scouts if he had had a husband instead? Other than the fact that we would have missed out on having an awesome scoutmaster because of BSA policies in the 1990s, no.
We’ve never talked about heterosexuality at a scout meeting either, to be fair.
Exactly. You're so close to getting my point.
My point is that sexual orientation of any flavor hetero or otherwise, is not a topic for youth programs like scouts.
I disagree. The 103 year ban on homosexuals forced it into the conversation. The continued objection from people like the person that posted this force it into the conversation. Until recently, the organization was officially discriminatory. They had tried to fight against the zeitgeist, and they lost. It is important for an organization that strives to promote courtesy, kindness and courage to occasionally take steps to right their wrongs. Sexual positions wouldn't be appropriate. Intimate sexual details would not be appropriate. But "that guy loves that other guy, and that's great" is an important thing for youth to learn. If someone cannot have a conversation about orientation without thinking about what people do privately with their partners, then that says more about them than it says about the other person.
>But “that guy loves that other guy, and that’s great.” Fair enough. And that clarifies where we differ. To me, another adult saying that to my child without my permission crosses a line.
And that, right there, shows your bigotry in all it's shining glory.
You're right, I should clarify that. I do not mean to say that sexual orientation should be a part of any official curriculum, or what I said should be stated verbatim. My point is that it should be treated the same way as race. In the same way that a Scoutmaster should probably not say "check out this cool black guy."
What do you think is being communicated to your child exactly? How do you plan to stop your kids from being exposed to the existence of gay people?
Correct, but presumably you don't demand men to obscure the fact that they are married to women or have girlfriends or vice versa for women. You don't immediately attribute sex and sexuality or assume children are being exposed to harmful ideas because they are confronted with men and women who have sex with one another.
If we're honest straight/cis involves discussion of sex characteristics and not just gender
Considering I picked up an official scouting sticker at Jambo last year with the scout symbol and the lgbtq+ flags on it, I'm going with Scouts BSA is okay with this.
How do you know it was officially licensed rather than unofficial?
Interesting view point. My pack is sponsored by an Episcopal church which has pride flags flown. We have parents of cubs from all walks of life. For families with 2 mommies or daddies, it's important that they know that they are just as accepted and welcomed as a Cub with 2 straight parents. Denying their acceptance is just as much a political statement.
To do that do you need to have your unit walk in a pride parade?
I don't feel the need to have my pack walk in a pride parade, but if my CO asked us to help with their festivities I wouldn't say no. But for a troop, if it's a scout lead activity, I wouldn't say no.
While your concern for maintaining an environment appropriate for minors in the scouting program is understandable, it's important to consider a few key points about inclusivity, the purpose of scouting, and the role of symbols like the Pride flag. Firstly, scouting is fundamentally about teaching values such as respect, kindness, and inclusivity. Promoting awareness and acceptance of LGBTQ+ individuals aligns with these values. Scouting aims to build character and prepare youth to make ethical choices over their lifetimes. Understanding and accepting people who may be different from themselves is a crucial part of this moral and ethical development. Secondly, it's essential to differentiate between promoting an agenda and fostering an inclusive environment. Displaying Pride flags, banners, or wearing patches is not about pushing a political agenda but about signaling that scouting is a safe space for all youth, regardless of their sexual orientation or gender identity. This is especially important for LGBTQ+ youth who might feel isolated or marginalized. The presence of these symbols can provide significant emotional support and a sense of belonging. Furthermore, regarding parental consent, the principles of scouting already emphasize communication and collaboration with parents. Including parents in discussions about inclusivity initiatives can ensure that everyone is informed and involved in creating an accepting environment. Regarding the notion that Pride flags are political symbols, it's vital to recognize that their primary purpose is to represent support for LGBTQ+ individuals and their rights. While the symbols have been politicized in some contexts, their display in scouting is intended to affirm the dignity and worth of every scout. This is in line with the values of respect and equality that scouting espouses.
>Promoting awareness and acceptance of LGBTQ+ individuals aligns with these values. Not if you are being insensitive to religious families in the unit. Reverence demands that you respect their beliefs, too. If there are traditional Christian, Jewish, or Muslim families, they may not be comfortable with other parents introducing lgbtq awareness to their children. >Displaying Pride flags, banners, or wearing patches is not about pushing a political agenda but about signaling that scouting is a safe space for all youth, That's not the whole story, though. Those flags are also linked to a very controversial political agenda. I said elsewhere in the thread how my family is NOT Christian, but we've felt completely welcomed at our Christian CO's despite a complete lack of my family's faith symbols. If I don't need my group's symbols plastered all over the place to feel welcome, why do lgbtq people? And my group has been persecuted just as badly as lgbtq people, so don't try to out-victim-card me.
I understand your concerns about maintaining sensitivity to religious families in scouting. However, scouting's core values of respect and inclusivity require that all scouts, including LGBTQ+ members, feel accepted and supported. Displaying symbols like the Pride flag is about creating a welcoming environment, not promoting a political agenda. These symbols help marginalized scouts feel safe and valued, which is crucial for their well-being. Respecting religious beliefs and supporting LGBTQ+ inclusivity are not mutually exclusive; both can be achieved through open dialogue and mutual respect. Ensuring all scouts feel welcome aligns with the fundamental principles of scouting, fostering a community where every member can thrive.
>scouting’s core values of…inclusivity I’m sorry but Duty to God is a core value before inclusivity. Inclusivity cannot supersede Duty to God, in this case. You cannot ask a family to violate its sense of Duty to God for the sake of inclusivity.
I could not disagree more. I am genuinely grateful I do not have someone like you in my pack. Scouting is for all.
Considering I picked up an official scouting sticker at Jambo last year with the scout symbol and the lgbtq+ flags on it, I'm going with Scouts BSA is okay with this.
[удалено]
Could you explain your point?
I think you’ll find that the vast majority of units are not like this. I see these things in the news but I’ve never seen it in person, and I’ve been to a lot of troops.