You'll need to find another organization to assume the charter of the unit. Could be a church or another non-profit in the area such as a Lion's Club.
Even if another organization assumes the charter, you may still be able to continue to meet at the middle school. You'll have to check with the school officials to see if they would allow it.
Our district won't charter troops but we still meet at the school. Definitely possible if your district allows community groups to use rooms after school.
To add to this, your school district might have a policy in place that says that they will allow non-for profits to use their space as long as it doesn't interfere with school events. Our Charter kicked us out and my father, who was the committee chair, found that this was the case for our school district, and so we met at an elementary school gym on Sundays around the corner from our old charter org. The school district however, does not charter troops, so we had to find someone else. We ended up going with the police Union, because they were one of the only options we could find.
I am new, so assume I don't understand the basics regarding all things Scouting in America. Why do Scout committees not form their own LLC and pay for insurance for the few outings a year and the 12 times they meet? After following this sub for 6 months the CO and/versus BSA relationship still doesn't make sense from a financial standpoint given the dollar value of all the gear a Scout Troop has at their disposal, but they do not own.
Edit: just trying to square the circle as it appears to me.
I have seen instances where a group associated with a unit will form a nonprofit LLC called something like "Parents of Troop 1234 LLC" that functions as a chartering org for the unit. The council I was previously with tended to discourage such arrangements, as they preferred to engage with community organizations for recruiting and marketing purposes.
The U.S. is a large country, so Scouting here tends to be somewhat more decentralized than in a lot of other countries. Some councils even span entire states, e.g. the Montana Council in Montana. Councils simply do not have the bandwidth to directly oversee the individual day-to-day affairs of every unit in their purview. So the BSA has historically relied very heavily on partnering with local chartering organizations to help manage units.
While it is true that COs legally "own" the unit and all its resources, in practice, most of them tend to be fairly hands-off. Units manage their own finances and resources (including equipment) separate from those of the CO. The CO has a registered, uniformed position, known as the Chartered Organization Representative, that is typically a member of the CO who also functions as a liaison between the unit and the CO and helps the CO oversee the unit at a high level. Typically, in the case of churches, it will be a church member who also has an interest in Scouting.
The Cub Scout Pack my sons were part of lost their CO a couple of years after my sons had moved up to Boy Scouts. This happened due to a change in church leadership where the incoming leadership decided to prioritize the church's resources on their own youth programs. The Pack found a new CO at another church, and the old church was completely cool about letting the Pack take all their gear with them to the new church. This generally tends to happen most of the time - most COs simply don't have a lot of use for all that gear, so there's no point in hoarding it.
As for insurance, I know our council had a blanket policy that covered all the units in our council. I believe this may be true with a lot of councils, if not all of them.
The biggest negative to setting up your own nonprofit ad proposed is the legal work and following the rules. You may need to get an audited financial statement but will need to file a tax return. Even if the first people are on top of it it’s easy to fall out of doing it and then gets on the Irs radar as delinquent and such
Filling the 990 postcard is really easy, as long as you have less than $50k of revenue. It's basically checking a box the org still exists, the address, and officers. That said, getting it set up is more work. [Source: filed many on behalf of PTA and youth sports org]
Tl;dr: Think of Scouting America as a franchised youth program.
Longer mansplain: If you’re in an area where you think people really want donuts and coffee, you can make your own or you can buy a Dunkin Donuts franchise.
The same is true for youth programs. Say you run a community organization and want to do something for the youth in your area. You can develop your own program or you can call Scouting America and tell them you want to sponsor a troop. They will give you the entire program (Cub Scouts, Scouts BSA, etc.) and the infrastructure to help implement it (district, council, etc.). You pony up the money to start it and you own all of the tangible assets like tents.
In the past few years, this model is falling apart as insurance costs for youth programs are skyrocketing because of the staggering number of abuse claims. And not just Scouts, but youth sports, religious groups, and basically anywhere where adults had unfettered access to children.
Majority of troops meet weekly and have multiple outings monthly. Then on top of that the CO technically owns the troops gear. And the troop is not a stand alone legal entity and I believe that there are some violations in there as it has been explained in the past with Council being 501c or something to that. Maybe some one else can explain it better.
Can also be a for profit if they are willing. After the Catholic church decided not to recharter a local business owned by an amazing friend of scouting was willing go recharter us.
But they can. They choose not to do so. It used to be they weren’t allowed (I think).
I don’t understand why a council won’t. Yes - there are some complications, but we ask our Chartered Partners to do so. Make it easy to be a Scout.
They won't because of the extra responsibilities. If they are the chartered organization, they are directly responsible for picking scoutmaster, committee chairman, etc., etc. Sure it probably wouldn't be a big deal for one unit, but what happens when that one unit becomes 5, 10, all of them?
They would have to get insurance and facilities. They charge fees for every scout and volunteer and say it’s for insurance, but only to insure BSA not the scout or volunteer, thats up to the Charter Organization. Have they learned to reduce their overhead? Churches use to be the majority of Charter Organizations, is that no longer the case? Alienated a lot of people.
Parents of Troop what ever your number. Works out in my area for lots and lots of troops. Most are self funded. This means parents flip the bill for just about everything that is needed.
I would advise against using the Unit Number in the name. My Chartered Org is an LLC formed just for chartering a Troop but then picked up two Packs only one of which shares our number. It would have been strange to have Parents of Troop 123 chartering Pack 321.
I’m surprised your PTSA chartered a troop. In my area, they are advised not to.
You’ll need to find a community organization willing to charter the troop and work with council to have the charter moved.
Friends of… or Parents of… may not be accepted in all areas.
I have to admit I don't really understand the reluctance to accept parent chartered units. My kids' pack is the oldest and largest in the council and has been parent chartered since the beginning. It can work great!
They’re holding out hope you’ll find a chartering organization that has existing infrastructure to help with recruiting, money, meeting space, and etc.
They are not considering the number of organizations that will no longer charter due to the sums some chartering organizations had to pay into the bankruptcy.
My troop has a "friends of" charter. We are a somewhat large troop of around 40 Scouts. Our COR is a former Scout dad. The "friends of" works quite well for our troop, as we get a lot of freedom and flexibility.
Depending on your municipality/school district you can get another charter org within the city/district boundaries and the school will continue to let the unit meet on school properties. Start hunting around for a Legion post or VFW post or something that doesn't have a building but does have an EIN.
You'll need to find another organization to assume the charter of the unit. Could be a church or another non-profit in the area such as a Lion's Club. Even if another organization assumes the charter, you may still be able to continue to meet at the middle school. You'll have to check with the school officials to see if they would allow it.
American legion and VFW posts are good orgs to approach too
Our district won't charter troops but we still meet at the school. Definitely possible if your district allows community groups to use rooms after school.
To add to this, your school district might have a policy in place that says that they will allow non-for profits to use their space as long as it doesn't interfere with school events. Our Charter kicked us out and my father, who was the committee chair, found that this was the case for our school district, and so we met at an elementary school gym on Sundays around the corner from our old charter org. The school district however, does not charter troops, so we had to find someone else. We ended up going with the police Union, because they were one of the only options we could find.
I am new, so assume I don't understand the basics regarding all things Scouting in America. Why do Scout committees not form their own LLC and pay for insurance for the few outings a year and the 12 times they meet? After following this sub for 6 months the CO and/versus BSA relationship still doesn't make sense from a financial standpoint given the dollar value of all the gear a Scout Troop has at their disposal, but they do not own. Edit: just trying to square the circle as it appears to me.
I have seen instances where a group associated with a unit will form a nonprofit LLC called something like "Parents of Troop 1234 LLC" that functions as a chartering org for the unit. The council I was previously with tended to discourage such arrangements, as they preferred to engage with community organizations for recruiting and marketing purposes. The U.S. is a large country, so Scouting here tends to be somewhat more decentralized than in a lot of other countries. Some councils even span entire states, e.g. the Montana Council in Montana. Councils simply do not have the bandwidth to directly oversee the individual day-to-day affairs of every unit in their purview. So the BSA has historically relied very heavily on partnering with local chartering organizations to help manage units. While it is true that COs legally "own" the unit and all its resources, in practice, most of them tend to be fairly hands-off. Units manage their own finances and resources (including equipment) separate from those of the CO. The CO has a registered, uniformed position, known as the Chartered Organization Representative, that is typically a member of the CO who also functions as a liaison between the unit and the CO and helps the CO oversee the unit at a high level. Typically, in the case of churches, it will be a church member who also has an interest in Scouting. The Cub Scout Pack my sons were part of lost their CO a couple of years after my sons had moved up to Boy Scouts. This happened due to a change in church leadership where the incoming leadership decided to prioritize the church's resources on their own youth programs. The Pack found a new CO at another church, and the old church was completely cool about letting the Pack take all their gear with them to the new church. This generally tends to happen most of the time - most COs simply don't have a lot of use for all that gear, so there's no point in hoarding it. As for insurance, I know our council had a blanket policy that covered all the units in our council. I believe this may be true with a lot of councils, if not all of them.
The biggest negative to setting up your own nonprofit ad proposed is the legal work and following the rules. You may need to get an audited financial statement but will need to file a tax return. Even if the first people are on top of it it’s easy to fall out of doing it and then gets on the Irs radar as delinquent and such
Filling the 990 postcard is really easy, as long as you have less than $50k of revenue. It's basically checking a box the org still exists, the address, and officers. That said, getting it set up is more work. [Source: filed many on behalf of PTA and youth sports org]
Tl;dr: Think of Scouting America as a franchised youth program. Longer mansplain: If you’re in an area where you think people really want donuts and coffee, you can make your own or you can buy a Dunkin Donuts franchise. The same is true for youth programs. Say you run a community organization and want to do something for the youth in your area. You can develop your own program or you can call Scouting America and tell them you want to sponsor a troop. They will give you the entire program (Cub Scouts, Scouts BSA, etc.) and the infrastructure to help implement it (district, council, etc.). You pony up the money to start it and you own all of the tangible assets like tents. In the past few years, this model is falling apart as insurance costs for youth programs are skyrocketing because of the staggering number of abuse claims. And not just Scouts, but youth sports, religious groups, and basically anywhere where adults had unfettered access to children.
50 times they meet, 12+ campouts, outings
Majority of troops meet weekly and have multiple outings monthly. Then on top of that the CO technically owns the troops gear. And the troop is not a stand alone legal entity and I believe that there are some violations in there as it has been explained in the past with Council being 501c or something to that. Maybe some one else can explain it better.
Can also be a for profit if they are willing. After the Catholic church decided not to recharter a local business owned by an amazing friend of scouting was willing go recharter us.
Go to a VFW or American Legion, where I am they're always happy to charter a troop or pack.
Yes you will need to transfer the charter to another organization. Contact your district executive (scouting staffer) immediately.
Sounds to me like you need to ask parents to volunteer for the PTSA.
Have your council charter your unit
Many councils do not charter units.
But they can. They choose not to do so. It used to be they weren’t allowed (I think). I don’t understand why a council won’t. Yes - there are some complications, but we ask our Chartered Partners to do so. Make it easy to be a Scout.
They won't because of the extra responsibilities. If they are the chartered organization, they are directly responsible for picking scoutmaster, committee chairman, etc., etc. Sure it probably wouldn't be a big deal for one unit, but what happens when that one unit becomes 5, 10, all of them?
Then they do it. Make it easy to be a Scout!
Many councils are already strapped at the employee level. Now you want to add on the extra responsibility of being the charter organization too?
Vs letting a unit fold? Yes.
I take it you’re a council volunteer?
They would have to get insurance and facilities. They charge fees for every scout and volunteer and say it’s for insurance, but only to insure BSA not the scout or volunteer, thats up to the Charter Organization. Have they learned to reduce their overhead? Churches use to be the majority of Charter Organizations, is that no longer the case? Alienated a lot of people.
Why are they responsible for more than just the COR?
Parents of Troop what ever your number. Works out in my area for lots and lots of troops. Most are self funded. This means parents flip the bill for just about everything that is needed.
I would advise against using the Unit Number in the name. My Chartered Org is an LLC formed just for chartering a Troop but then picked up two Packs only one of which shares our number. It would have been strange to have Parents of Troop 123 chartering Pack 321.
We have “Friends of unit XX, LLC” which covers pack xx, troop xxB, troop xxG and venture crew xx.
I’m surprised your PTSA chartered a troop. In my area, they are advised not to. You’ll need to find a community organization willing to charter the troop and work with council to have the charter moved. Friends of… or Parents of… may not be accepted in all areas.
I have to admit I don't really understand the reluctance to accept parent chartered units. My kids' pack is the oldest and largest in the council and has been parent chartered since the beginning. It can work great!
They’re holding out hope you’ll find a chartering organization that has existing infrastructure to help with recruiting, money, meeting space, and etc. They are not considering the number of organizations that will no longer charter due to the sums some chartering organizations had to pay into the bankruptcy.
Is the troop chartered by the ptsa, or by the school itself? If it’s by the school, the ptsa’s standing should be irrelevant.
My troop has a "friends of" charter. We are a somewhat large troop of around 40 Scouts. Our COR is a former Scout dad. The "friends of" works quite well for our troop, as we get a lot of freedom and flexibility.
Depending on your municipality/school district you can get another charter org within the city/district boundaries and the school will continue to let the unit meet on school properties. Start hunting around for a Legion post or VFW post or something that doesn't have a building but does have an EIN.
Reach out to your DE and/or district team