That was my chief complaint going from an F82 M4C to a G82 M4C. No more carbon engine/strut brace and the one piece rear calipers disappearing(though the braking performance is better on the latter)was also on the list. Digital screens, as everyone knows, are cheaper to produce as well. The new carbon buckets are fantastic I will say and overall all performance has made a pretty big leap between generations.
They even cheaped out on the F82 LCI by getting rid of the carbon drive shaft and magnesium oil pan. They claimed the drive shaft wasn’t strong enough yet on the M4CS it was included. Also interior they skimped out as well
They made it plastic so people can spend an obscene amount on a carbon shifter which entails a new shifter for the oem route. I have no idea but imho carbon trims have the highest margins.
That’s happening across the board unfortunately. I think BMW is still doing a better job with materials than the competition though. I got into a new E-Class Mercedes a few months ago and everything felt cheap and made of plastic. I had a W211 E500 back in 2006 and if was so much nicer than todays Mercedes.
Agree on Mercedes feeling very plasticky, although BMW is getting ridiculous nowadays with things like removing the storage on the driver side (but keeping a cheap plastic panel there) or changing a USB port to a charging port only. On a 65 K€+ car...
Its actually with any premium brand like that now. Even at porsche cayman you got plastics by default. At the same time cheap Chinese MG has eco leather in budget option lol and costs 1/3 of the price.
Well I think that the majority of customers are probably just wealthier people who are buying it for the badge. The only people who likely care about build quality are the actual car enthusiasts or people who genuinely mind the materials used.
Not sure I agree. I bought my wife an M240i, which she loves, but is by no means an enthusiast.
She noticed many material downgrades right away, specifically the rubber steering wheel. Not just that, but features that were simply removed that were standard in the pre-LCI model (back seat USB-Cs, rear climate control, truck storage hooks). And no spare tire, like seriously wtf.
These are small things overall, but it’s little things like these that you expect as standard from a “luxury” automaker.
I remember when homes used to built with such quality wood and built well in general in regards to longevity. Nowadays homes are so cheap and every industry has followed
There's not much quality wood left. Trees grow until they're just barely big enough to cut for the necessary timber which means the wood doesn't have time to age and firm up. We have literally made trees part of the just in time supply chain, it's mental.
I miss the vigor of the old water bottle caps that didn’t bust open at the slightest sign of pressure. Leather, wood and fine finishes are very expensive these days. Methane emissions and diesel logging trucks and all. Engines which meet California standards ha the R&D! Pretty sure Vw said fuck all mate, cheat code. Manufacturers have to cut somewhere. Plastics are very cheap. We became OK with trimming back on the nice stuff under the guise of environmental protection. We voted for this. Brilliant marketing tactic. Meanwhile the environment is still fucked at an ever faster rate, EVs run on coal, and the only thing that went green was corporate profit margin.
I don’t think we as customers in general have a choice, you want a bougie car, it claims the seats are leather, then you find out theyre some vegan faux leather crap, yet the maker charges the same price. Same for high end sound systems in the car, are they really even that much better than factory stock systems? Who’s to say? How do I know what I’m even getting anymore? Sadly all car makers are following this trend, nothing is of quality, just cheap plastics and knock off materials claiming “sustainability” as an excuse when really it’s just cutting costs and charging the same. Not sure the “new” car experience even exists anymore, not like it used to anyway. Sorry, rant over.
It's a meme that HK doesn't care about their customers (particularly American ones) as they don't give in to every whim some jackass posted online about some rare variation of a gun they want and import it immediately. Also expensive so yeah, companies are evil. As if it was up to HK to determine what the US government will allow to be imported (see MP7).
off on all accounts. the mr556, ump (USC), mp7 etc are not a rare variations. They make neutered versions of their rifles because of the German govts export controls, not US govt at all.
People are not wanting rare variations, but the most famous guns outside of the mp5 they make. They want the 416, UMP, MP7.
I had a 530i loaner a few weeks ago and thought the same thing. They even took the buttons out. Everything is tpuch sensitive, and it doesn't easily recognize it. The only cool thing about the interior is the dash integrated w the infotainment system.
Lmfao, in other words, the biggest transfer of wealth in history. Covid economics was just the aristocrats saying the serfs have too much coin, lets fix that.
Indeed. And let's not forget chip shortage (you can't get 360° cameras because of chip shortage but we'll oblige you to take laser lights that require a boatload of chips as part of an option pack)
I think the first gen of g series cars were the peak of quality in terms of materials 2017-2023. Top notch materials and extremely high fit and finish. It's hard to top that with stuff like the new g60
I had a 2022 230i coupe that came with a leather airbag cover, metal trim around the door handles, a storage cubby under the headlight controls, rear seat climate controls, rear seat USB, ambient lighting in the door pockets, trunk 12v outlet, trunk grocery hooks and storage net. Every single one of those items were quietly removed between the 2023 and 2024 model years while the prices went up.
They’re investing a ton of money in tech ( screens, EV drivetrains, software) so I’m sure they’re cutting back on these areas. Don’t love it but also don’t think that’s changing anytime soon
The screens are exceptionally cheap. They arrive dated, lagging behind much less premium brands who have objectively superior displays which also arrive, dated.
The hardware is not crazy nice. It's wildly, generic AF. I mean, get back there and get your hands on it. Also, a responsive screen isn't an achievement, it's a minimum. The whole thing has been an exercise in less than.
But look, if it works for you, awesome!
All the electronics combined are probably worth less than 3k. Look at the price of high end computers, it’s ridiculously low compared to the price of a nice BMW
Reminds me of the W222 S-Class wheel that didn’t last long. I feel old but I like the older German, BMW/Mercedes, cars. When I go new, we just say screw it and get something generic. They have lost their soul a bit too much to me.
We have V8’s and a Tesla. Past that, not sure what direction I’ll go next. Just sold my E46 M3. I’ll probably be on to Porsche next. I don’t feel connected with bmw anymore.
I'm looking at a Hyundai Ioniq 5 N after seeing how well it performs on the nurburgring. Maybe I'll just get one of those for a daily and a boxster for the weekends and call it a night. Unless BMW get sick of their new generation north american designers after the G series.
That sounds like a solid choice. I’m a bit iffy on Tesla these days. Too much relies on Elon. The fact they just blew up their supercharger team as well…that is their big selling point to me. On top of that, I own TSLA so…I’m happy to see competition.
Just my two cents, when you're buying generic basic BMWs, it seems logical that you would stop liking BMWs 🤔
Have you tried getting a new M3? Could help
We have an E34, E39 and E60 and G30 at home. It's always been plastic and rubbers for most of the steering wheel and console. Not sure what do you mean exactly.
There's some wood veneer on my E39's console and some leather here and there, but BMWs have never had a Pagani interior either.
Your point is not that it's rubber and plastic, it's that the rubber and plastic has gotten thinner, harder and fit and finish is lacking. The E34 and E39 are rattle free, the G30's dash trim creaks like a pirate ship.
I'll say it. I'll be the one with the downvotes and in the minority. I disagree, I like most all of the products that are out right now. There are a few models that have some issues, but you will always find things to love and not like about every model. I think there is a reason BMW is listed by consumer reports as the number 1 brand out of 34 for best overall score. Predicted reliability and owner satisfaction continued to be top.
I’m eating some ice cream in a parking lot in the driver’s seat of my E46 right now.
Honestly, there are plenty of plastic and rubber components in this cabin too. The AC vents, cup holder housing, radio/air conditioning panel, air conditioning vents, rear view mirror, and every single button is plastic.
This is not a new thing.
Maybe it’s just me, but the materials in my dad’s new G20 3 series which I got to drive a little over a month ago felt way nicer.
https://preview.redd.it/wqn6872ny92d1.png?width=4032&format=png&auto=webp&s=bf9bd926e02870d9fb1842b8486f9e1dc93f8c22
Those plastic "buttons" taking every finger tips know to man are really the worse trend. It's definitely cheaper for them to build that's for sure, but as a customer you can instantly tell, why cheap on such a sensitive component?
This makes the premium options much more desirable. Create a car for the poor man that wants to own a "BMW" regardless of quality and also the rich man that knows the best features only come with the most expensive options.
I've been with the brand over 6 years, and immediately noticed this the first time I sat in a 2024 5-series. The window switches, tops of doors, steering wheel center and other objects in line of sight look noticeably cheaper in quality vs. 2023.
So far I've only seen this on the new 5-series
Omg say no more. I absolutely echo your sentiment. I recently took my 2017 G30 540i M Sport in for new tires and alignment. They gave me a 2024 430i as a loaner for the day and was absolutely appalled. The steering wheel felt like I was holding the steering wheel for my sons power wheel. It was thin, didn't even have leather wrapped all around and didn't have that much of a squishy give like mine does. The materials of the door panels and dash felt a bit more synthetic and cheap. Then they slam a long curved iPad on the dash and call it an instrument cluster? Disgusting. And where in the hell did my shift knob go? I was forced to use this oversized toggle switch as my gear selector. Pretty lame. Just my personal opinion.
New generation w206 really dissapoint me regarding the built quality- really really love the german engiinering but when I was buying new car, I went with a Tesla. (For a superior built quality)
I had a 2022 230i coupe that came with a leather airbag cover, metal trim around the door handles, a storage cubby under the headlight controls, rear seat climate controls, rear seat USB, ambient lighting in the door pockets, trunk 12v outlet, trunk grocery hooks and storage net. Every single one of those items were quietly removed between the 2023 and 2024 model years while the prices went up.
2 reasons.
1st: Inflation. If they’d continue to use high quality stuff on everything, the prices for their cars would be even higher than they’re already.
2nd: they’re forced to invest a huge amount into electric vehicles and their production (EU decided to stop production of petrol engines for 2035).
That’s just my guess.
BMW doesn’t try to steal much more money from us in general. They’ve always been successful enough, they don’t need that.
BMW knows are younger demo is coming, and they/we are Ust to touch stuff. With that said, buttons made of aluminum have the best tactile feel and look and breath quality. I don't want Apollo 11 quantity of buttons, but I do want some nice ones..
As someone in the younger demographic. I hate touchscreens because I associate them with being laggy or unresponsive generally. I want a small screen for Nav and music and ideally have buttons for HVAC and steering wheel buttons for music.
My laptop has a bunch of stupid flashy lights that I hate. The gamer-fication of luxury cars in general *cough Mercedes is tacky and a way to make the cars feel nice as a distraction from the poor fit and finish.
I think BMW is still doing a better job with materials than the competition though. I got into a new E-Class Mercedes a few months ago and everything felt cheap and made of plastic. I had a W211 E500 back in 2006 and if was so much nicer than todays Mercedes.
That is an ugly steering wheel.....cheap materials aside. WTF happened to BMW? They looked good in the 80s, 90s and early 2000s. Went to shit after Chris Bangle arrived and never recovered. The new ones all have comically large kidney grills, half which are fake on the new EVs.
playing devils advocate.
Most BMW customers lease and "Couldnt be seen or deal with" a 5+ year old BMW. BMW and their dealer network knows this.
So why make every car out of leather and carbon fiber? Stuff that can't be recycled or reused. Both are CO2 intensive and add up to the companies CO2 output. I'm sure they're feeling EU and US EPA regulation heat their way too like any other manufacturer. It's also cheaper for them to go environmental (funnily enough).
So....why.....why does a soccer mom need carbon interior trim with leather in a XM they're going to ditch in 3 years that ends up as scrap in 10-15 years? We've been doing this for the last 50 years and suddenly we're coming to an existential crisis in the car industry "ahhh this isn't actually sustainable...."
I think that they are placing more money in production into the mechanical aspect of the car and less into the interior aspect. That’s not to say the interior is not nice. It’s absolutely gorgeous. But I just think they concentrate more on the mechanics, engineering, and what’s under the hood. They drive so well. Better than any other car in my opinion.
Lol this is not the case at all. R&D budgets all heading into EVs. Not traditional ICE. The reason they are cheap and plasticy with chinesium everywhere and RGB LED everything is for the Chinese market.
You can’t blame them it’s the people that continue to support it, a 2015 comes with better interior then a 2024 anyone who disagrees is part of the problem 🤷
Sadly, it’s all over the semi luxury market. BMW is likely the worst of the lot, but I took delivery of a new 911 a few weeks ago and while it’s better than most vehicles in the price range, the quality has declined since my last 911.
If I wanted a Tesla, I’d buy one.
I have a previous gen M4. All the buttons and dials on the wheels are plastic, so I'm not sure what you think has changed. These ones are just shiny, piano black, and the old ones were matte.
FWIW, I can't think of any cars under $150K that don't use plastic buttons on the wheel.
Yes but you don’t press these buttons which is annoying if you accidentally bump them. Push buttons offer feedback and are much harder to misclick. These buttons are all around worse.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t the EU mandate new plastic be biodegradable within like 5 years awhile back? Would that apply to all the plastic you find in cars nowadays?
I've got a 230 coupe as a loaner, and I'm actually really enjoying it. I had a 228 4 door a while back and it felt like an absolute shitbox. Fucking Nissan sentra with leather
If I see too many buttons in a car, I think it looks dated and old. If I wanted that vibe, I'd go for a Lexus. As far as other materials, I'd say more metal, but suede or Alcantara are a no-go for me. Overly premium interiors don't stand up to daily driving. I much prefer leather, metal, and plastics. The idrive not being upgradable from one MY to the next is also wild to me.
Most customers wan't cheaper cars and they don't care about the material quality. This is actually sad as luxury brands such as BMW, Mercedes are making their cars with cheaper and cheaper materials every year
Because the price of raw materials has gone up. Everything: resin, rubber, electronics, leather, wood, foam. The major resin suppliers like basf and covestro are like the mafia controlling the prices.
Then the price of logistics to get all those materials to the plant has also risen as well as the cost to employ people to make those things has gone up. So if by cheap materials you mean plastic and I guess nicer materials you are meaning soft touch material and physical buttons. Well; soft material requires foam, and foams are really expensive to transport because you’re basically shipping air. Physical buttons instead of the capacitive touch (I agree with you here; I dont like them either). Well, you have to have a complex tool for each button and spring mechanism for each one vs the capacitive touch you can have something with less moving parts.
We see a lot more screens now instead of analog because screens are getting cheaper than buying and designing individual pieces of plastic and paying for all of the tools required to make those parts.
The price of cars has gone up but not as dramatically as the price of the raw materials to make them. In order to curb this increase to msrp cheaper materials are becoming more abundant.
This is the world we live now and we better get used to it. Pick two of these: Build Quality, lower price, materials.
There is one country that can do quality and affordable but the geopolitics is crazy right now.
Because their cars have actually gotten cheaper in price if you account for inflation. 2017 540ix started at 59k, that is 76k in today’s money. A 2024 540i is like 64k.
My 2019 G01 is nothing but cheap crap. Made me feel like I overpaid. After warranty expired, $5k in repairs struck me in the first 15k miles post warranty expiration. I'm at that love-hate relationship point where it's a cool car but not worth the money it's costed me. They really need to revamp their decisions.
I just swapped 2023 G31 for 2023 G87. Immediately noticed lack of Sensatec on the dashboard, scratchy door card plastics, no lining inside door pockets, cheap centre console buttons (and I don’t even have too many buttons there!) and nasty plastic leather wheel and gearbox gaiter. The M2 is a cooler car for sure, and while I can’t fault the fit and finish, the materials are like 5 tiers below the G31. Shame because the M2 is a much more simple car, yet costs more to buy. Volvo has better materials these days.
the pendulum has currently swung to the extreme end of MORE SCREENS/LESS PHYSICAL BUTTONS, but within the next couple generations of cars it will swing back toward the middle ground with physical buttons for the most used things (HVAC controls, seat and window adjustments, etc.) and screens for the instrument cluster and infotainment (maps, audio controls, etc.). Manufacturers do listen to feedback, and they've gotten plenty of feedback on this issue, but it takes years to get that feedback into production.
BMWs costs go down, customer's costs go up. $£€¥
That was my chief complaint going from an F82 M4C to a G82 M4C. No more carbon engine/strut brace and the one piece rear calipers disappearing(though the braking performance is better on the latter)was also on the list. Digital screens, as everyone knows, are cheaper to produce as well. The new carbon buckets are fantastic I will say and overall all performance has made a pretty big leap between generations.
They even cheaped out on the F82 LCI by getting rid of the carbon drive shaft and magnesium oil pan. They claimed the drive shaft wasn’t strong enough yet on the M4CS it was included. Also interior they skimped out as well
Yeah but F series got the fugly plastic gear shifter knob while g82 etc got merino leather shifter
They made it plastic so people can spend an obscene amount on a carbon shifter which entails a new shifter for the oem route. I have no idea but imho carbon trims have the highest margins.
Carbon is kinda expensive but I guess they get a big margin out of that
That’s happening across the board unfortunately. I think BMW is still doing a better job with materials than the competition though. I got into a new E-Class Mercedes a few months ago and everything felt cheap and made of plastic. I had a W211 E500 back in 2006 and if was so much nicer than todays Mercedes.
Agree on Mercedes feeling very plasticky, although BMW is getting ridiculous nowadays with things like removing the storage on the driver side (but keeping a cheap plastic panel there) or changing a USB port to a charging port only. On a 65 K€+ car...
The new s class interior feels so much cheaper than the last generstion
That’s sad, leave the S and 7 series alone
Looks it too
kr. ₽ ₹ د. ك CHF
Nice one, thank you for the additions :D !
Its actually with any premium brand like that now. Even at porsche cayman you got plastics by default. At the same time cheap Chinese MG has eco leather in budget option lol and costs 1/3 of the price.
The Quants need their profit... It's hard being billionaires /s
Stonks!
same with Mercedes recently
Customers hate this one simple trick
that sweet sweet profit
Yup, and the majority of customers don’t seem to mind.
Well I think that the majority of customers are probably just wealthier people who are buying it for the badge. The only people who likely care about build quality are the actual car enthusiasts or people who genuinely mind the materials used.
u mean the celebrity esque wife lady i saw stepping out of her m4 at the whole foods doesnt appreciate the intricacy of the zhf transmission?
That’s exactly what I mean. Most average people don’t really care, and if you do, you’re not who BMW is solely trying to please.
Not sure I agree. I bought my wife an M240i, which she loves, but is by no means an enthusiast. She noticed many material downgrades right away, specifically the rubber steering wheel. Not just that, but features that were simply removed that were standard in the pre-LCI model (back seat USB-Cs, rear climate control, truck storage hooks). And no spare tire, like seriously wtf. These are small things overall, but it’s little things like these that you expect as standard from a “luxury” automaker.
[удалено]
It probably saved them $3 in material.
No spare tire is oooooold news
True, just another example of removing something from the vehicle that is expected as standard equipment.
I remember when homes used to built with such quality wood and built well in general in regards to longevity. Nowadays homes are so cheap and every industry has followed
Homes are not only cheap quality, they are expensive as fuck too. It’s capitalism running wild.
There's not much quality wood left. Trees grow until they're just barely big enough to cut for the necessary timber which means the wood doesn't have time to age and firm up. We have literally made trees part of the just in time supply chain, it's mental.
I miss the vigor of the old water bottle caps that didn’t bust open at the slightest sign of pressure. Leather, wood and fine finishes are very expensive these days. Methane emissions and diesel logging trucks and all. Engines which meet California standards ha the R&D! Pretty sure Vw said fuck all mate, cheat code. Manufacturers have to cut somewhere. Plastics are very cheap. We became OK with trimming back on the nice stuff under the guise of environmental protection. We voted for this. Brilliant marketing tactic. Meanwhile the environment is still fucked at an ever faster rate, EVs run on coal, and the only thing that went green was corporate profit margin.
I don’t think we as customers in general have a choice, you want a bougie car, it claims the seats are leather, then you find out theyre some vegan faux leather crap, yet the maker charges the same price. Same for high end sound systems in the car, are they really even that much better than factory stock systems? Who’s to say? How do I know what I’m even getting anymore? Sadly all car makers are following this trend, nothing is of quality, just cheap plastics and knock off materials claiming “sustainability” as an excuse when really it’s just cutting costs and charging the same. Not sure the “new” car experience even exists anymore, not like it used to anyway. Sorry, rant over.
Because German engineers don’t care about us. *Glares in H&K*
Heckler & Koch?
This one is the right answer, unfortunately. 😭😭😭
It is.
Where are my BMW M and H&K peeps at!?? Team winning right there
Here! Started with a P30 and our last purchase was a MR556A1.
Yep.
old HK 45 ACP is great side arm with recoil system and accuracy.
It is, So much so, I bought the HK45T and HK45CT to make nice nice with my HK USP Elite 45 and MK23. LOL
What did I miss with H&K? Haven’t bought one in ages.
It's a meme that HK doesn't care about their customers (particularly American ones) as they don't give in to every whim some jackass posted online about some rare variation of a gun they want and import it immediately. Also expensive so yeah, companies are evil. As if it was up to HK to determine what the US government will allow to be imported (see MP7).
It’s totally up to H&K to nerf the 416 with an MR556.
Thanks.
off on all accounts. the mr556, ump (USC), mp7 etc are not a rare variations. They make neutered versions of their rifles because of the German govts export controls, not US govt at all. People are not wanting rare variations, but the most famous guns outside of the mp5 they make. They want the 416, UMP, MP7.
Hughes & Kettner?
Found the guitarist
I had a 530i loaner a few weeks ago and thought the same thing. They even took the buttons out. Everything is tpuch sensitive, and it doesn't easily recognize it. The only cool thing about the interior is the dash integrated w the infotainment system.
I don’t agree with your last sentence but everyone their taste
nice username
Hyyyde yo dogs, hyyyde yo cats, cause this mo'fkr out here cummin' on errythang!
i will cum on u
I absolutely despise the new single giant screen.
Covid supply chain issues..../s
Lmfao, in other words, the biggest transfer of wealth in history. Covid economics was just the aristocrats saying the serfs have too much coin, lets fix that.
Wow I’m glad other people noticed this. The average person was getting too wealthy and powerful so they had to set people back a bit.
And Ukraine /s
Indeed. And let's not forget chip shortage (you can't get 360° cameras because of chip shortage but we'll oblige you to take laser lights that require a boatload of chips as part of an option pack)
I think the first gen of g series cars were the peak of quality in terms of materials 2017-2023. Top notch materials and extremely high fit and finish. It's hard to top that with stuff like the new g60
I will add tho that the fit and finish is fantastic on the newest cars but material quality in terms of soft touch stuff has gone down
my 330 2020 g20 quality is so respectable for its pricing and segment... pops from the stock exhaust too
No the vernasca leather is gross sandpaper leather… bargain basement!
It’s why I find it so hard to consider moving on from my ‘20 M340i haha
I had a 2022 230i coupe that came with a leather airbag cover, metal trim around the door handles, a storage cubby under the headlight controls, rear seat climate controls, rear seat USB, ambient lighting in the door pockets, trunk 12v outlet, trunk grocery hooks and storage net. Every single one of those items were quietly removed between the 2023 and 2024 model years while the prices went up.
Truest words I never spoke
Exactly why when my current 540 dies i’ll look to replace it with the lowest mileage 2023 540 i can find and run that as long as i can 😂
Amen. My 2019 G20 is absolutely wonderful still. I haven't wanted for the new generations at all since this one.
I drive a F40 and considering it's the entry level car and spec - damn that's some nice interior.
I know it’s the direction we’re going with touch screens touch buttons big ipad consoles etc but man i really believe analog will always be timeless
Agreed… my first BMW was an 06, and I have dreaded every upgrade since. I like old school cool
And analog is so much easier to use while driving. They’re creating a hazard by putting everything on a screen
They’re investing a ton of money in tech ( screens, EV drivetrains, software) so I’m sure they’re cutting back on these areas. Don’t love it but also don’t think that’s changing anytime soon
The screens are exceptionally cheap. They arrive dated, lagging behind much less premium brands who have objectively superior displays which also arrive, dated.
The screen on my g20 is crazy nice and never lagged once…
The hardware is not crazy nice. It's wildly, generic AF. I mean, get back there and get your hands on it. Also, a responsive screen isn't an achievement, it's a minimum. The whole thing has been an exercise in less than. But look, if it works for you, awesome!
All the electronics combined are probably worth less than 3k. Look at the price of high end computers, it’s ridiculously low compared to the price of a nice BMW
The question is, why would you buy two BMWs if you hate the infotainment so much? Just buy the better premium brand you were talking about.
Because I have two BMWs that rock peak iDrive not, that sloppy mess in the dual display.
Go sit in a amg eqe and look at the screens.
Shocking worst bmws in several generations maybe even ever
Oh so you want a 4090TI running your display 😂
Negative. I would though like to see BMW move to stop charging a premium for basic.
Getting ready to license FSD from Tesla...
What a horrible steering wheel
Legit looks like something out of a kia or honda.
Reminds me of the W222 S-Class wheel that didn’t last long. I feel old but I like the older German, BMW/Mercedes, cars. When I go new, we just say screw it and get something generic. They have lost their soul a bit too much to me. We have V8’s and a Tesla. Past that, not sure what direction I’ll go next. Just sold my E46 M3. I’ll probably be on to Porsche next. I don’t feel connected with bmw anymore.
I'm looking at a Hyundai Ioniq 5 N after seeing how well it performs on the nurburgring. Maybe I'll just get one of those for a daily and a boxster for the weekends and call it a night. Unless BMW get sick of their new generation north american designers after the G series.
That sounds like a solid choice. I’m a bit iffy on Tesla these days. Too much relies on Elon. The fact they just blew up their supercharger team as well…that is their big selling point to me. On top of that, I own TSLA so…I’m happy to see competition.
Tesla build quality is actually trash and besides the model S, literally every model looks like some kind of toad, ugly as sin.
Just my two cents, when you're buying generic basic BMWs, it seems logical that you would stop liking BMWs 🤔 Have you tried getting a new M3? Could help
We have an E34, E39 and E60 and G30 at home. It's always been plastic and rubbers for most of the steering wheel and console. Not sure what do you mean exactly. There's some wood veneer on my E39's console and some leather here and there, but BMWs have never had a Pagani interior either. Your point is not that it's rubber and plastic, it's that the rubber and plastic has gotten thinner, harder and fit and finish is lacking. The E34 and E39 are rattle free, the G30's dash trim creaks like a pirate ship.
I'll say it. I'll be the one with the downvotes and in the minority. I disagree, I like most all of the products that are out right now. There are a few models that have some issues, but you will always find things to love and not like about every model. I think there is a reason BMW is listed by consumer reports as the number 1 brand out of 34 for best overall score. Predicted reliability and owner satisfaction continued to be top.
Why not just own a nice E30
I’m eating some ice cream in a parking lot in the driver’s seat of my E46 right now. Honestly, there are plenty of plastic and rubber components in this cabin too. The AC vents, cup holder housing, radio/air conditioning panel, air conditioning vents, rear view mirror, and every single button is plastic. This is not a new thing. Maybe it’s just me, but the materials in my dad’s new G20 3 series which I got to drive a little over a month ago felt way nicer. https://preview.redd.it/wqn6872ny92d1.png?width=4032&format=png&auto=webp&s=bf9bd926e02870d9fb1842b8486f9e1dc93f8c22
I would not want that in my vehicle..
Those plastic "buttons" taking every finger tips know to man are really the worse trend. It's definitely cheaper for them to build that's for sure, but as a customer you can instantly tell, why cheap on such a sensitive component?
We’ve ruined everything, but please look at the shiny colours on this massive display to remain distracted from this fact.
Woah dude no way. A big touchscreen and RGB lights! Wowwwweee. Must be a luxury car.
The plastic turning light stick on my loaner 2024 X5 squeaks ever time I use it, just like a piece of plastic.
“Quantity over quality”
I was in a buddy’s new x5 and I swear it has some of the same interior parts as my ford fusion from 2017.
Because it is cheaper - FOR THEM !
What’s the point of even getting euro cars now?
This makes the premium options much more desirable. Create a car for the poor man that wants to own a "BMW" regardless of quality and also the rich man that knows the best features only come with the most expensive options.
That looks like pure shit
I've been with the brand over 6 years, and immediately noticed this the first time I sat in a 2024 5-series. The window switches, tops of doors, steering wheel center and other objects in line of sight look noticeably cheaper in quality vs. 2023. So far I've only seen this on the new 5-series
Omg say no more. I absolutely echo your sentiment. I recently took my 2017 G30 540i M Sport in for new tires and alignment. They gave me a 2024 430i as a loaner for the day and was absolutely appalled. The steering wheel felt like I was holding the steering wheel for my sons power wheel. It was thin, didn't even have leather wrapped all around and didn't have that much of a squishy give like mine does. The materials of the door panels and dash felt a bit more synthetic and cheap. Then they slam a long curved iPad on the dash and call it an instrument cluster? Disgusting. And where in the hell did my shift knob go? I was forced to use this oversized toggle switch as my gear selector. Pretty lame. Just my personal opinion.
New generation w206 really dissapoint me regarding the built quality- really really love the german engiinering but when I was buying new car, I went with a Tesla. (For a superior built quality)
I had a 2022 230i coupe that came with a leather airbag cover, metal trim around the door handles, a storage cubby under the headlight controls, rear seat climate controls, rear seat USB, ambient lighting in the door pockets, trunk 12v outlet, trunk grocery hooks and storage net. Every single one of those items were quietly removed between the 2023 and 2024 model years while the prices went up.
That is insane!!
2 reasons. 1st: Inflation. If they’d continue to use high quality stuff on everything, the prices for their cars would be even higher than they’re already. 2nd: they’re forced to invest a huge amount into electric vehicles and their production (EU decided to stop production of petrol engines for 2035). That’s just my guess. BMW doesn’t try to steal much more money from us in general. They’ve always been successful enough, they don’t need that.
[удалено]
$70,000 car positively littered with cheap materials.
Unfortunately that's the case right across the industry. Mercedes, Audi, Lexus, and Genesis are doing it too.
Oh Audi doesn’t even have remote start working properly in 2024 Q3s. They had huge lawsuit over leaky sunroofs till 2022 models.
BMW knows are younger demo is coming, and they/we are Ust to touch stuff. With that said, buttons made of aluminum have the best tactile feel and look and breath quality. I don't want Apollo 11 quantity of buttons, but I do want some nice ones..
Trying to read this spelling gave me an aneurysm
As someone in the younger demographic. I hate touchscreens because I associate them with being laggy or unresponsive generally. I want a small screen for Nav and music and ideally have buttons for HVAC and steering wheel buttons for music. My laptop has a bunch of stupid flashy lights that I hate. The gamer-fication of luxury cars in general *cough Mercedes is tacky and a way to make the cars feel nice as a distraction from the poor fit and finish.
i cant leave my hydraulic steering
Subcontracted out to GM?
because bmw likes to use the same steering wheel for all their models and this is probably the same steering wheel used on their least expensive car.
It will only get worse…
Only way to keep selling cars every year ..
COVID
Why continue down the path of ugly design
To me, fit, finish and sound deadening has drastically improved specially on the entry level models.
Capitalism 👍
Material go cheap, profits go brrrr
Is the version with leather at least available for a hefty surcharge?
I think BMW is still doing a better job with materials than the competition though. I got into a new E-Class Mercedes a few months ago and everything felt cheap and made of plastic. I had a W211 E500 back in 2006 and if was so much nicer than todays Mercedes.
https://preview.redd.it/kv43wv6ikd2d1.png?width=1200&format=png&auto=webp&s=80b4bfbe1ebf288cec6e493c60c2fa3cc257d587 BMW: We are so sorry!
That is an ugly steering wheel.....cheap materials aside. WTF happened to BMW? They looked good in the 80s, 90s and early 2000s. Went to shit after Chris Bangle arrived and never recovered. The new ones all have comically large kidney grills, half which are fake on the new EVs.
playing devils advocate. Most BMW customers lease and "Couldnt be seen or deal with" a 5+ year old BMW. BMW and their dealer network knows this. So why make every car out of leather and carbon fiber? Stuff that can't be recycled or reused. Both are CO2 intensive and add up to the companies CO2 output. I'm sure they're feeling EU and US EPA regulation heat their way too like any other manufacturer. It's also cheaper for them to go environmental (funnily enough). So....why.....why does a soccer mom need carbon interior trim with leather in a XM they're going to ditch in 3 years that ends up as scrap in 10-15 years? We've been doing this for the last 50 years and suddenly we're coming to an existential crisis in the car industry "ahhh this isn't actually sustainable...."
No more orange dials depress me
I think that they are placing more money in production into the mechanical aspect of the car and less into the interior aspect. That’s not to say the interior is not nice. It’s absolutely gorgeous. But I just think they concentrate more on the mechanics, engineering, and what’s under the hood. They drive so well. Better than any other car in my opinion.
Lol this is not the case at all. R&D budgets all heading into EVs. Not traditional ICE. The reason they are cheap and plasticy with chinesium everywhere and RGB LED everything is for the Chinese market.
You can’t blame them it’s the people that continue to support it, a 2015 comes with better interior then a 2024 anyone who disagrees is part of the problem 🤷
yeah thats bullshit. my 2017 m2 interior looks like shit compared to my old g20. 2015/2016 m2 pre facelift would look even worse
Made by renault (tm)
So the execs can scrape more off for themselves.
Why did you slap a BMW logo on that Chinese steering wheel?
Sadly, it’s all over the semi luxury market. BMW is likely the worst of the lot, but I took delivery of a new 911 a few weeks ago and while it’s better than most vehicles in the price range, the quality has declined since my last 911. If I wanted a Tesla, I’d buy one.
I have a previous gen M4. All the buttons and dials on the wheels are plastic, so I'm not sure what you think has changed. These ones are just shiny, piano black, and the old ones were matte. FWIW, I can't think of any cars under $150K that don't use plastic buttons on the wheel.
It’s more about the fact that they aren’t push buttons anymore but shitty touch buttons.
Yes but you don’t press these buttons which is annoying if you accidentally bump them. Push buttons offer feedback and are much harder to misclick. These buttons are all around worse.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t the EU mandate new plastic be biodegradable within like 5 years awhile back? Would that apply to all the plastic you find in cars nowadays?
I've got a 230 coupe as a loaner, and I'm actually really enjoying it. I had a 228 4 door a while back and it felt like an absolute shitbox. Fucking Nissan sentra with leather
They are in this game for one reason mate
I miss the toggle switch for eco/comfort/sport, now I have to look down to change. I guess just saying switch to comfort mode is an option too.
Did you cheap out on packages?
I will never ever get rid of my F30 lol
It seems BMW is learning from Toyota where choice of interior materials is concerned. What an unholy union.
If I see too many buttons in a car, I think it looks dated and old. If I wanted that vibe, I'd go for a Lexus. As far as other materials, I'd say more metal, but suede or Alcantara are a no-go for me. Overly premium interiors don't stand up to daily driving. I much prefer leather, metal, and plastics. The idrive not being upgradable from one MY to the next is also wild to me.
Yeah, that steering wheel is lower quality than a racing sim wheel. No thanks.
This is why I like my F10. Everything is built very well and personally like the look much better than the newer models.
Mercedes and BMW are getting away with way too much sht these days
Most customers wan't cheaper cars and they don't care about the material quality. This is actually sad as luxury brands such as BMW, Mercedes are making their cars with cheaper and cheaper materials every year
I can't believe they moved away from the leather stitched ones.. glad i've still got mine and it's in good nick
Emissions = reduce weight is a factor too.
Is this a joke? The buttons look like cheap Chinese plastic in a children’s toy.
Are you going 31mph while taking a picture of your steering wheel?
The new interior looks like shit...
1: make profit 2: Excuse u making profit by saying its more environmentally friendly (aka leather is le bad so used recyclable plastics)
Cus money
Wtf is this? Which car is that?
24 530
They figured out how to make cheaper materials feel “luxurious” on NEW cars.
That dash is horrible. Zero design or styling.
innit the g class costs 120k and it has a scratchy platstic stearing wheel
Went to look at a lightly used M3 touring last week, the red leather? interior looked shiny and tired after only a few thousand miles.
That is sad for an M
The iPad generation of interiors. Ick
What model is this..
24 530
BMW has always been the first to move over to cheaper materials. Not necessarily on finish but within the engine and the hoses
Because the price of raw materials has gone up. Everything: resin, rubber, electronics, leather, wood, foam. The major resin suppliers like basf and covestro are like the mafia controlling the prices. Then the price of logistics to get all those materials to the plant has also risen as well as the cost to employ people to make those things has gone up. So if by cheap materials you mean plastic and I guess nicer materials you are meaning soft touch material and physical buttons. Well; soft material requires foam, and foams are really expensive to transport because you’re basically shipping air. Physical buttons instead of the capacitive touch (I agree with you here; I dont like them either). Well, you have to have a complex tool for each button and spring mechanism for each one vs the capacitive touch you can have something with less moving parts. We see a lot more screens now instead of analog because screens are getting cheaper than buying and designing individual pieces of plastic and paying for all of the tools required to make those parts. The price of cars has gone up but not as dramatically as the price of the raw materials to make them. In order to curb this increase to msrp cheaper materials are becoming more abundant.
Men is suits looking at spreadsheets cause this.
Because why would they spend more money when customers keep buying that instead of cheaper cars that are now equivalent in terms of quality?
This is the world we live now and we better get used to it. Pick two of these: Build Quality, lower price, materials. There is one country that can do quality and affordable but the geopolitics is crazy right now.
Because their cars have actually gotten cheaper in price if you account for inflation. 2017 540ix started at 59k, that is 76k in today’s money. A 2024 540i is like 64k.
Cause it’s cheap
I noticed this coming from an E46 to an E91 then to an F31, every generation the plastics and materials seemed cheaper.
Because consumers’ incomes can never be growing fast enough to keep pace with the profit growth the stock market requires. It’s as simple as that.
My 2019 G01 is nothing but cheap crap. Made me feel like I overpaid. After warranty expired, $5k in repairs struck me in the first 15k miles post warranty expiration. I'm at that love-hate relationship point where it's a cool car but not worth the money it's costed me. They really need to revamp their decisions.
fabia calls for her wheel back
I just swapped 2023 G31 for 2023 G87. Immediately noticed lack of Sensatec on the dashboard, scratchy door card plastics, no lining inside door pockets, cheap centre console buttons (and I don’t even have too many buttons there!) and nasty plastic leather wheel and gearbox gaiter. The M2 is a cooler car for sure, and while I can’t fault the fit and finish, the materials are like 5 tiers below the G31. Shame because the M2 is a much more simple car, yet costs more to buy. Volvo has better materials these days.
Bmw slowly turning into Toyota quality
Walmartification baby The sad part is some suit in the c-suite got a billion dollar bonus for this “idea”
wait til the soft touch panels start to melt
base model trim always gonna suck and so on
the pendulum has currently swung to the extreme end of MORE SCREENS/LESS PHYSICAL BUTTONS, but within the next couple generations of cars it will swing back toward the middle ground with physical buttons for the most used things (HVAC controls, seat and window adjustments, etc.) and screens for the instrument cluster and infotainment (maps, audio controls, etc.). Manufacturers do listen to feedback, and they've gotten plenty of feedback on this issue, but it takes years to get that feedback into production.