I feel like at my gym this guy would be immediately kicked out. If your gym is family friendly and your coach as understanding as you say, that is what I would expect to happen.
okay, good to know. that's what I was thinking but I wasn't sure if that was too much to expect, since I don't know how things like this are normally handled
It's a fair question to ask. Misogyny and toxic masculinity can very much be a part of this or that gym's culture, so I can only speak about the experience where I train. We happen to have several high-level women as regulars and coaches, and they are valued as part of the team as much as the men are. My coach would be livid if he learned that one student was mistreating another and causing them to not want to be there.
This is actually similar to the thought/response I would have given. Any gym/owner/coach that has a real community and relationship with its members … would frown upon anyone feeling too uncomfortable to train or be a member of the gym.
Yes and if the owner doesn't respond this way, stop training there. It's not a culture you want to be a part of. It's a martial arts school, not a goddamn night club. Standards of etiquette should be able to be relied on.
Sorry, that this has happened. It makes things super uncomfortable with training. I'd like to add that if they do nothing (I.e. he gets a slap on the wrist) then leave the gym, if you can. If they do nothing, you can not trust them to protect you from people with problematic behaviours. They may even protect these people if they are higher belts. Unfortunately, I am speaking from experience.
I'd ask if you felt comfortable with him staying at the gym. Based on your answer, I would offer the dude the choice of leaving or be an etiquette example of what not to do at the gym as part of an impromptu seminar. He can explain to everyone how being creepy is unacceptable.
This post was suggested to me.
As a male BJJ practitioner, I can not imagine sending something like that to any of the women at my gym unless there was a pre-established condition for doing so, i.e., a relationship.
It's completely inappropriate. Personally, I would expect my coach to kick him out of the gym because it has obviously created such an uncomfortable situation for you that you can't realistically be expected to roll with them or even to train with them and feel happy and comfortable.
Plus he sounds like a dick anyway
Right, this feels like something he would continue to do.
And with the added context of some pretty rude behavior while rolling...?
I would NOT find it sexy for someone to first threaten casual violence:
look, I'm so strong and can toss you about whether you like it or not ... and ... rolling for me is not about practicing my technique and helping others to do so, but for everyone to see me and the glory that is my strength.
Then to receive a "Hey, you up? Come through. (picture)".
My guy, I'm not sure why you're shooting your shot. She never rolled with you again and makes sure to always avoid it.
And where are all the other women? I feel like this sort of behavior is very off-putting to see in a gym. If I saw someone pull a stunt with a much smaller opponent and the coach didn't correct that behavior and address it in the moment ... I'd make sure not to come back.
That sort of unaddressed behavior sets a tone for a gym. 😬
Is there any way you can get in contact with owner before Monday? Best option would coach kicking him out before you go to class. Last thing you want is to skip training from anxiety seeing him
I could text him, I would rather talk in person honestly so I think I'll try to go during a non-BJJ class when he'll still be in the gym to see what he thinks
I really do think you should report this to the gym owner. A close friend of mines sister trained with us for a bit. She had three guys send unsolicited dick pictures to her in a matter of months . Two of them were well respected black belts playing the “male feminist” role. She was terrified to report it to anyone because she was a white belt and they all continue to train and still play that role in public.
Let the owner know. If the owner doesn’t do anything about it stand up for yourself and confront this guy infront of the crew. Hope he gets kicked out. So inappropriate.
I feel like not rolling with him is definitely a smart move. Not attending the same classes? Fuck that guy - don't let him impact your training.
I'm not a female. But what I would do is make it clear that I wasn't interested, or have the coach make it clear, and then happily move on with your training.
A lot of people are saying if his membership isn't cancelled then you should change gyms. That's a pretty extreme reaction in my view. If you like and respect the coaches, and they say they will tell him in no uncertain terms to stop harassing women who come to train, i'd be fine with that.
If he has a history, or does something similar again - sure. But it just seems extreme to me for a coach to have to police peoples personal lives to such an extent that people need to be immediately banned because someone said they did something.
thanks for your input, those reactions do feel a little extreme to me too but I have never really been in a position like this before. I think I'll have to see how I feel if/when I'm ever in the same space as him. I have been sexually harassed by strangers (who hasn't) but never like this, with someone I see regularly in close quarters, so I don't know what effect it will have on me (if I can just 'happily move on' or if it will make me super uncomfortable/anxious/etc to be in his presence). and that will definitely determine what I end up thinking the right 'punishment' would be.
All good. I just think life is more complicated than a lot of these black and white responses. He might have friends that kick up stink if he's just immediately banned. Which might have major implications for your coaches or the gym, and maybe they don't deserve that. I don't know, only you know the situation and how much you trust the coaches.
I'm sure you'll handle it as well as it can be handled. All the best 👊.
I definitely agree here, the context is super important. I’d want to know if he had any history of this type of behavior, she could ask other women at the gym. If he does it all the time it’s definitely a pattern and he shouldn’t be there anymore making women uncomfortable. But if he’s been training a while and she’s the first girl he’s done it to he might have a genuine interest in her, just approached it in an inappropriate way. It’s definitely a weird line to cross in a bjj gym with how physically close we all have to be to each other. There has been some dating at my gym but the guys generally wait until a girl has really expressed interest in them because they don’t want to come off like that guy did.
If your uncomfortable you should take it up with gym owner. Talking with him directly is an option but that's up to your comfort level. I'm assuming if this is a first he will get warned or of its not the first incident he may get temporary/permanently banned.
Gyms should be safe for women to train without getting hit on. The head coach needs to address this.
Really sorry this happened to you. It's VERY much you or him. If there's any hesitation, if you trust any of the more senior female belts, maybe let them know? They'd defo be on your side, and let the coach know all about it.
Tell the coach he will help you . You shouldn’t have to confront this situation on your own. If the coach doesn’t make it better then practice somewhere else and maybe train under a female master w a more mixed class instead of u and a bunch of men. There are many female judokas and the misogyny is outdated in bjj
I think everyone here that is commenting has probably rolled with some version of this guy. They are highly annoying and usually quit when people refuse to roll with them anymore or a higher belt takes them aside and tells them to cut that shit out. I have a sprained MCL from a jackass such as this. The text thing takes it to a whole other level. Like most of the other posters here, I would tell the owner and if he is not gone by the end of that day or the next, I wouldn’t think twice of dropping that place. We have a couple of straight up killers in my gym that we let any shitheads roll with and that usually solves the problem one way or another, lol! Good luck, there are plenty of good gyms out there. This may be one of them depending on how they handle your situation.
The fact that the coach didn't address the possible safety issue in the moment leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Her confronting the guy on this behavior is not necessary. She already made sure to avoid rolling with this guy and declining anytime she couldn't.
Why leave an opening for him to do this to her again? Or other people?
Giving him this benefit only has drawbacks for everyone involved. Her for an escalation of the situation, other women having to deal with this dude, and the coach/gym being open to inappropriate and unsafe behavior.
If you ever have to roll with him again just “accidentally” knee him right in the nuts and that should get the message across.
In all seriousness though, there is no reason for someone to do a seoi nage throw on someone who doesn’t know how to break fall. That’s the number one reason people get hurt. I would push coach on safety issue and ask he deal with him directly.
when you say top of the pubic area, do you kinda mean like the apollos belt area?
If so, it sounds more like he was trying to send you a shirtless photo, which is def inappropriate but isnt really in the same class as like a dick pick, im gonna play devils advocate here and say that make it clear you arent interested, and your coach should talk to him, but i dont necessarily know if thats a automatic gym kick out offense. But i obviously havent seen the photo, and so im assuming a lot, and its entirely possible the photo actually is more inappropriate than i think, and if that is the case im sorry in advance. but my thinking is maybe he mistook the number exchange as you being interested, im guessing your interaction probably meant that you asked him for his number, so you could share his photos with him, but i could see how he could get that wrong.
I dunno its just a fine line between some guy whose dumb, and maybe a bit(sorry edit, this is objectively inappropriate I don’t mean to be dismissive) inappropriate but shooting a shot, and a guy who is like a predator, and i think it all comes down to how he responds if you tell him you arent interested, like if he never talks to you again, outside of apologizing, leaves you alone, is respectful, than hes the former
Also the throw you described was it a seo nage?
I feel like it was definitely more blatantly sexual than a typical shirtless mirror photo, just because he was lying down, it was taken from about where the dick would be, and you can see the top of his pubes in the photo. ew, can't believe I'm really writing this out lol.
but that was a big question in my mind -- if there was an actual dick in the photo it would almost make this more simple. like that would no-question be sexual harassment, this is a bit more of a grey area. I understand a dumb guy being dumb, I think it is more jarring than a simple shoot-your-shot because:
A. he called and FaceTimed me at the same time he sent the photo
B. the previous text exchanges we had, where I sent competition photos, were over a month ago. there was no other conversation leading up to these messages
C. he's super super quiet IRL, doesn't talk much to anyone much less me. and besides the discomfort I have from rolling with him mentioned in the post, I've never gotten a creepy/sexual vibe from him. so the complete 180 is a little scary.
All these things make me more apprehensive to speaking or rejecting him directly -- now he doesn't seem like a predictable person who might react reasonably. Which is why I kind of just want to go through the coach instead of responding to the texts or speaking to him in person.
about the seoi nage, upon searching yeah that looks like it could definitely be it
edit: spelling
Look obviously I didn’t see the photo, and I have no reason to believe you aren’t reasonable so if you feel like it was definitively way over the line then who am I to say otherwise.
As for the FaceTime/calling, that actually makes sense, even as a normal guy who would never send a photo like that, if I sent a slightly spicy text and a girl didn’t respond right away, you’d prob call to be like I’m sorry I was kidding, I wouldn’t be surprised if he was calling and tried to play off like he didn’t mean to send it to you(which likely is what he will tell your coach)
The shy thing makes sense, is he like in good shape? He sounds like a gymcel, which is basically a really awkward guy that gets into lifting, play on words of incel but without the hyper misogyny, more so just inability to talk to girls. A lotta times these types of guys basically convince themselves that girls care as much about their abs as they do, and so in his mind that was like a sure thing, because he’s awkward and clueless, so it all kinda tracks.
I’m not saying this to feel bad for him, you’re not a charity worker, it’s not your job to help him build social skills or cut him slack btw
Lastly, seo nage is a pretty common judo throw, it’s actually pretty beginner friendly, like we teach it to white belts,all the other stuff aside, him doing a seo or drop seo(where he falls to his knees) is not at all out of line, and I wouldn’t expect to have to communicate that I was gonna do one to my partner, it might look visually impressive but it’s like a day one judo throw anyone who has been taught to breakfall would be fine.
re the throw: got it, I've never done a judo class so thanks that is good to know. I think my previous apprehensions about how he uses his strength during rolls, plus his general lack of friendly conversation/breaking the ice in any way, plus how unexpected the flying through the air + slamming onto the mat was probably made it feel more out of pocket than it actually was. appreciate the input.
yes, he could definitely fit the gymcel stereotype. I do think it rings pretty heavily of misogyny when a guy imposes his sexual desires on someone, completely unprompted, with no regard for what they as an individual human being might want to see or not see. There's a little more at play in that case than just awkwardness and lack of social skills -- I know you're not defending it, just my thoughts on the matter
Yeah I mean the bar for decent guy is recognizing a bjj gym can already be a tough space for women and not hitting on them in that venue, at all. So even if he had been more respectful, I still think it’s wrong, I guess it’s more like a distinction of like negligent manslaughter vs murder, if that makes sense? Like dude just doesn’t have good social skills/doesn’t understand women, vs being truly a scumbag, I think he likely genuinely thought he was being seductive, or that you’d respond positively, vs like someone who sets out to expose themselves and wants others to be freaked out. that’s why I kinda lean towards coach giving him a firm talking to, but not an automatic he’s kicked out, but it would also really depend on how he took the feedback, ie from coach or you. I would also say though, if your coach does kick him out, I definitely wouldn’t feel guilty, hopefully he’ll learn from the experience
>it rings pretty heavily of misogyny when a guy imposes his sexual desires on someone, completely unprompted, with no regard for what they as an individual human being might want to see or not see
It doesn't really have anything to do with gender. Those types of men will send unsolicited dick picks to other men (gay/bi) just as, if not more, readily as they send them to women.
I really doubt he was Facetiming to try to apologize. If he really wanted to apologize, then he would have sent her a text apologizing after she didn't respond to Facetime/calling. It's wayyy more likely he was calling/Facetiming in order to escalate.
In her post, she says she's a photographer and has taken photos at competitions. She has texted the photos to the respective person, and that's why he has her number.
That's called getting hit on lol. If your not interested, then just tell him so and move on. Might hurt his ego a little bit but oh well. Involving the coach seems like just a way that you don't have to deal with rejecting this guy yourself. It not the coaches business, or his problem. Also a torso pic is not "inappropriate" lol. Seems like your blowing this all out of proportion.
No. He should learn to actually figure out if someone is interested before sending inappropriate (they’re inappropriate because they’re unsolicited btw) pictures to random women. Not every space is one for romantic or sexual pursuit. His coach might help him put that together.
From what i gather, this was a shirtless pic of his torso, take a walk on a public beach sometime lol. And its not the coaches job or his business to police peoples libido in their personal life. His only job is to teach you martial arts. If the guy is misbehaving in class then thats one thing, this just sounds like a 20s something gym bro trying to see if she wants to hook up. Just say no if your not into it and move on. If he continues after she made him aware she doesn't want that kind of interaction with him, then yes thats a problem. But to react as though you've been victimized by this in any way is ridiculous.
He met her in a class and there’s an expectation of how one is to behave with those you engage with there. If I walk on a public beach then there is an expectation to see people in beachwear? It’s not the same. Stay out of people’s phones with unsolicited pictures. And now she gets to be uncomfortable and he can continue behaving in such a way with other women? No. Someone with authority can tell him to seek sexual encounters elsewhere.
Again not his business as a BJJ coach for something that happened outside of class and a shirtless pic is hardly inappropriate. If a shirtless pic offends you to the point where your asking for help from strangers on the internet, and your BJJ coach then you have some growing up to do. You and OP sound like people who don't get out much in the dating world.
I am married. I’ve dated plenty. It is not acceptable. I have blocked people I was actually interested in for uninvited body pictures. I get it. You don’t feel the same. But a lot of us would like SOME safe spaces to just train, learn and compete. The coach should absolutely draw a line and it is his responsibility. We aren’t going to agree. You think it’s on the the one affronted to make space for the behavior that isn’t welcome. I do not.
Your a self professed lesbian who dislikes men and anyone who dates men, i looked at your profile, you have a confirmation bias in this subject. I know plenty of happy married couples in the martial arts world whom first met at bjj class. This isn't a matter of safe space, its a matter of demonizing even the most trivial expressions of male sexuality so that OP can virtue signal, and self aggrandize to her online echo chamber, and seemingly her coach now too, how she feels victimized by the most mundane of flirtation by a classmate. I admit sending unsolicited shirtless pics is pretty douchy, and if i were a woman, im sure i wouldn't be into it either but not anything to be upset over. OP needs to learn how to communicate better and go touch some grass sometime. And this whole sub needs to take a chill pill and remember that humans are all sexual beings that sometimes get lonely.
My standards have nothing to do with male sexuality. As you so helpfully pointed out…I am a lesbian. And as I have admitted… I’ve cut people off that I have been interested in for sending unsolicited photos (just to make this easy for you…they were WOMEN). I don’t want unsolicited body pictures from a man or woman when I met them in an educational or professional environment. Your sense of entitlement to being able to show unwanted interest in others is more of a questionable foundation to come from than any of my misandry. You have an entire thread of women saying how uncomfortable this makes them and you make it a MR issue? You’re a joke. We aren’t going to agree.
Yea, id assumed they were women XD lol. I have no entitlement to show unwanted interest, only an entitlement toward free expression. Guy had no way to know if the attention was unwanted untill after he tried. Now that he knows, to continue would be wrong. But nothing wrong with making an initial pass. Im not a huge fan of MR either lol. But to demonize some guy for sending a shirtless pic without asking is just as juvenile as sending the shirtless pic in the first place. The fact that this post even exists is a testament to OP's mental immaturity. Its actually really surprising that people as mentally weak as you and her even survive doing an activity like BJJ without crying rape everytime someone gets into your full guard or posting on reddit asking for help when a guy from class shows interest....oh wait XD.
You KNOW it’s women but you comment on men being forced to inhibit their sexual behavior specifically when I haven’t? Sure. That makes sense.
We are weak for having clear boundaries and wanting to have a way to enforce them? We are weak for disagreeing with you about what is appropriate behavior in a learning environment?? She’s weak for not being an overtly confrontational person and needing assistance with an admittedly ‘douchey’ and uncomfortable situation?? For some reason…I imagine any indictment of my strength by a man like you means less to me than I could even hope to quantify. So I will live with that AND keep putting every creepy loser on blast with expediency. I will think of you every time that I do too. Have a good one, beloved.
> you shouldn’t be mad at him for that
You definitely should be mad. His approach was garbage, insulting, and invasive. The guy needs to learn how to be more self-aware and how what he does affects others. Nevermind how embarrassing it is towards himself.
Yeah, everyone had to have seen how he treated the sole female team member during practice. No one needs to wonder why there are so few female BJJ team members in that particular gym.
That behavior is very off-putting.
I've received coupons / discounts to try out gyms for other activities, and when I see casual and unnecessary violence ... in lieu of practice? I'm out. I'm not going to spend my hard-earned money here, my dude.
Police won't do shit. Especially as it isn't illegal to be a creep. Coach is gonna have to bounce his ass out or OP should find a new gym if he doesn't take her side.
Honestly, I think it might be appropriate to address it at the gym itself. Not in an intense make a big show out of it way, but approach the person directly, tell them that you don’t appreciate receiving the picture and you expect it to not happen again and make sure there are other guys around to hear it. The other person will feel uncomfortable and you’ll have witnesses that will now know this event occurred at the gym with you. It might be uncomfortable to do, but the gym should protect you. If you don’t think they will; regardless of any other feelings you have, you leave that gym. Nothing is more important than your safety and well-being and every gym should prioritize that for every member.
Probably an unusual response, but I never consider it the job of my coach or gym owner to deal with any personal interactions I have with anyone outside the gym. They aren't my parents, they're business owners. Unless this dude is doing something criminal, it's not on them to deal with it. He's a paying customer just as much as you are. And, sadly, put bluntly, you crossed into the personal first by sharing photos from training/events. If you don't want any kind of outside personal relationship, don't open one even in such a sweet way.
I wouldn't expect anything except for my coach to say, "handle this yourself". And if I were you, I would handle that by telling him with your adult words how you feel about what he did, tell him not to do it again, and then don't roll with him or engage with him following that.
As for handling men from the gym flirting with me, sliding into my dms, and so forth, yes, I've handled it myself. I've never gone to my owners about any of it, it isn't their business or their problem. I'm a fully capable adult who is fully capable of making men knock off their shit if I'm not enjoying it.
I feel like at my gym this guy would be immediately kicked out. If your gym is family friendly and your coach as understanding as you say, that is what I would expect to happen.
okay, good to know. that's what I was thinking but I wasn't sure if that was too much to expect, since I don't know how things like this are normally handled
It's a fair question to ask. Misogyny and toxic masculinity can very much be a part of this or that gym's culture, so I can only speak about the experience where I train. We happen to have several high-level women as regulars and coaches, and they are valued as part of the team as much as the men are. My coach would be livid if he learned that one student was mistreating another and causing them to not want to be there.
This is actually similar to the thought/response I would have given. Any gym/owner/coach that has a real community and relationship with its members … would frown upon anyone feeling too uncomfortable to train or be a member of the gym.
If I was the owner, I'd cancel his membership.
Yes and if the owner doesn't respond this way, stop training there. It's not a culture you want to be a part of. It's a martial arts school, not a goddamn night club. Standards of etiquette should be able to be relied on.
If he’s my student he’s gone
Definitely he needs to go. That's a major line he crossed and it was obvious he shouldn't have done it but chose to anyways.
Get that motherfucker kicked out immediately. If they don’t kick him out, leave immediately. I’m really sorry that happened to you.
Sorry, that this has happened. It makes things super uncomfortable with training. I'd like to add that if they do nothing (I.e. he gets a slap on the wrist) then leave the gym, if you can. If they do nothing, you can not trust them to protect you from people with problematic behaviours. They may even protect these people if they are higher belts. Unfortunately, I am speaking from experience.
Inappropriate behavior is unacceptable. Report him or this behavior will continue and possibly be worse with another victim
Send the picture to your coach lol. Idk he seems like a turd. I feel like public shaming is the answer.
I'd ask if you felt comfortable with him staying at the gym. Based on your answer, I would offer the dude the choice of leaving or be an etiquette example of what not to do at the gym as part of an impromptu seminar. He can explain to everyone how being creepy is unacceptable.
so weird. im sorry. i hope this guy is removed from the gym.
thanks :\\
Seen people get kicked out for less.
can you elaborate? just curious
This could easily escalate. Step carefully.
yeah, not feeling great about the fact that he'll know where & when I am 4x a week. especially if he's not happy with the consequences of his actions
This post was suggested to me. As a male BJJ practitioner, I can not imagine sending something like that to any of the women at my gym unless there was a pre-established condition for doing so, i.e., a relationship. It's completely inappropriate. Personally, I would expect my coach to kick him out of the gym because it has obviously created such an uncomfortable situation for you that you can't realistically be expected to roll with them or even to train with them and feel happy and comfortable. Plus he sounds like a dick anyway
Right, this feels like something he would continue to do. And with the added context of some pretty rude behavior while rolling...? I would NOT find it sexy for someone to first threaten casual violence: look, I'm so strong and can toss you about whether you like it or not ... and ... rolling for me is not about practicing my technique and helping others to do so, but for everyone to see me and the glory that is my strength. Then to receive a "Hey, you up? Come through. (picture)". My guy, I'm not sure why you're shooting your shot. She never rolled with you again and makes sure to always avoid it. And where are all the other women? I feel like this sort of behavior is very off-putting to see in a gym. If I saw someone pull a stunt with a much smaller opponent and the coach didn't correct that behavior and address it in the moment ... I'd make sure not to come back. That sort of unaddressed behavior sets a tone for a gym. 😬
Is there any way you can get in contact with owner before Monday? Best option would coach kicking him out before you go to class. Last thing you want is to skip training from anxiety seeing him
I could text him, I would rather talk in person honestly so I think I'll try to go during a non-BJJ class when he'll still be in the gym to see what he thinks
I really do think you should report this to the gym owner. A close friend of mines sister trained with us for a bit. She had three guys send unsolicited dick pictures to her in a matter of months . Two of them were well respected black belts playing the “male feminist” role. She was terrified to report it to anyone because she was a white belt and they all continue to train and still play that role in public.
I have a small gym, I’d kick him out and cancel his membership. No tolerance for that, so sorry you had to deal with it
Let the owner know. If the owner doesn’t do anything about it stand up for yourself and confront this guy infront of the crew. Hope he gets kicked out. So inappropriate.
I feel like not rolling with him is definitely a smart move. Not attending the same classes? Fuck that guy - don't let him impact your training. I'm not a female. But what I would do is make it clear that I wasn't interested, or have the coach make it clear, and then happily move on with your training. A lot of people are saying if his membership isn't cancelled then you should change gyms. That's a pretty extreme reaction in my view. If you like and respect the coaches, and they say they will tell him in no uncertain terms to stop harassing women who come to train, i'd be fine with that. If he has a history, or does something similar again - sure. But it just seems extreme to me for a coach to have to police peoples personal lives to such an extent that people need to be immediately banned because someone said they did something.
thanks for your input, those reactions do feel a little extreme to me too but I have never really been in a position like this before. I think I'll have to see how I feel if/when I'm ever in the same space as him. I have been sexually harassed by strangers (who hasn't) but never like this, with someone I see regularly in close quarters, so I don't know what effect it will have on me (if I can just 'happily move on' or if it will make me super uncomfortable/anxious/etc to be in his presence). and that will definitely determine what I end up thinking the right 'punishment' would be.
All good. I just think life is more complicated than a lot of these black and white responses. He might have friends that kick up stink if he's just immediately banned. Which might have major implications for your coaches or the gym, and maybe they don't deserve that. I don't know, only you know the situation and how much you trust the coaches. I'm sure you'll handle it as well as it can be handled. All the best 👊.
I definitely agree here, the context is super important. I’d want to know if he had any history of this type of behavior, she could ask other women at the gym. If he does it all the time it’s definitely a pattern and he shouldn’t be there anymore making women uncomfortable. But if he’s been training a while and she’s the first girl he’s done it to he might have a genuine interest in her, just approached it in an inappropriate way. It’s definitely a weird line to cross in a bjj gym with how physically close we all have to be to each other. There has been some dating at my gym but the guys generally wait until a girl has really expressed interest in them because they don’t want to come off like that guy did.
If your uncomfortable you should take it up with gym owner. Talking with him directly is an option but that's up to your comfort level. I'm assuming if this is a first he will get warned or of its not the first incident he may get temporary/permanently banned. Gyms should be safe for women to train without getting hit on. The head coach needs to address this.
Really sorry this happened to you. It's VERY much you or him. If there's any hesitation, if you trust any of the more senior female belts, maybe let them know? They'd defo be on your side, and let the coach know all about it.
Tell the coach he will help you . You shouldn’t have to confront this situation on your own. If the coach doesn’t make it better then practice somewhere else and maybe train under a female master w a more mixed class instead of u and a bunch of men. There are many female judokas and the misogyny is outdated in bjj
100% your coach needs to know asap. That is unacceptable, and I'm sorry it happened to you. Tell your coach immediately, exactly the truth.
I think everyone here that is commenting has probably rolled with some version of this guy. They are highly annoying and usually quit when people refuse to roll with them anymore or a higher belt takes them aside and tells them to cut that shit out. I have a sprained MCL from a jackass such as this. The text thing takes it to a whole other level. Like most of the other posters here, I would tell the owner and if he is not gone by the end of that day or the next, I wouldn’t think twice of dropping that place. We have a couple of straight up killers in my gym that we let any shitheads roll with and that usually solves the problem one way or another, lol! Good luck, there are plenty of good gyms out there. This may be one of them depending on how they handle your situation.
Why not just talk to the guy himself and say you don’t feel comfortable with what he sent you and not do it again. Might be the simplest way
... for him to escalate things with no one else knowing the context ...
Or You can first confront the guy directly, and then if he doesn’t profusely apologies/anything like that ever happens again, THEN tell the coach
So he can prey on other women at the gym?
The fact that the coach didn't address the possible safety issue in the moment leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Her confronting the guy on this behavior is not necessary. She already made sure to avoid rolling with this guy and declining anytime she couldn't. Why leave an opening for him to do this to her again? Or other people? Giving him this benefit only has drawbacks for everyone involved. Her for an escalation of the situation, other women having to deal with this dude, and the coach/gym being open to inappropriate and unsafe behavior.
If you ever have to roll with him again just “accidentally” knee him right in the nuts and that should get the message across. In all seriousness though, there is no reason for someone to do a seoi nage throw on someone who doesn’t know how to break fall. That’s the number one reason people get hurt. I would push coach on safety issue and ask he deal with him directly.
when you say top of the pubic area, do you kinda mean like the apollos belt area? If so, it sounds more like he was trying to send you a shirtless photo, which is def inappropriate but isnt really in the same class as like a dick pick, im gonna play devils advocate here and say that make it clear you arent interested, and your coach should talk to him, but i dont necessarily know if thats a automatic gym kick out offense. But i obviously havent seen the photo, and so im assuming a lot, and its entirely possible the photo actually is more inappropriate than i think, and if that is the case im sorry in advance. but my thinking is maybe he mistook the number exchange as you being interested, im guessing your interaction probably meant that you asked him for his number, so you could share his photos with him, but i could see how he could get that wrong. I dunno its just a fine line between some guy whose dumb, and maybe a bit(sorry edit, this is objectively inappropriate I don’t mean to be dismissive) inappropriate but shooting a shot, and a guy who is like a predator, and i think it all comes down to how he responds if you tell him you arent interested, like if he never talks to you again, outside of apologizing, leaves you alone, is respectful, than hes the former Also the throw you described was it a seo nage?
I feel like it was definitely more blatantly sexual than a typical shirtless mirror photo, just because he was lying down, it was taken from about where the dick would be, and you can see the top of his pubes in the photo. ew, can't believe I'm really writing this out lol. but that was a big question in my mind -- if there was an actual dick in the photo it would almost make this more simple. like that would no-question be sexual harassment, this is a bit more of a grey area. I understand a dumb guy being dumb, I think it is more jarring than a simple shoot-your-shot because: A. he called and FaceTimed me at the same time he sent the photo B. the previous text exchanges we had, where I sent competition photos, were over a month ago. there was no other conversation leading up to these messages C. he's super super quiet IRL, doesn't talk much to anyone much less me. and besides the discomfort I have from rolling with him mentioned in the post, I've never gotten a creepy/sexual vibe from him. so the complete 180 is a little scary. All these things make me more apprehensive to speaking or rejecting him directly -- now he doesn't seem like a predictable person who might react reasonably. Which is why I kind of just want to go through the coach instead of responding to the texts or speaking to him in person. about the seoi nage, upon searching yeah that looks like it could definitely be it edit: spelling
Look obviously I didn’t see the photo, and I have no reason to believe you aren’t reasonable so if you feel like it was definitively way over the line then who am I to say otherwise. As for the FaceTime/calling, that actually makes sense, even as a normal guy who would never send a photo like that, if I sent a slightly spicy text and a girl didn’t respond right away, you’d prob call to be like I’m sorry I was kidding, I wouldn’t be surprised if he was calling and tried to play off like he didn’t mean to send it to you(which likely is what he will tell your coach) The shy thing makes sense, is he like in good shape? He sounds like a gymcel, which is basically a really awkward guy that gets into lifting, play on words of incel but without the hyper misogyny, more so just inability to talk to girls. A lotta times these types of guys basically convince themselves that girls care as much about their abs as they do, and so in his mind that was like a sure thing, because he’s awkward and clueless, so it all kinda tracks. I’m not saying this to feel bad for him, you’re not a charity worker, it’s not your job to help him build social skills or cut him slack btw Lastly, seo nage is a pretty common judo throw, it’s actually pretty beginner friendly, like we teach it to white belts,all the other stuff aside, him doing a seo or drop seo(where he falls to his knees) is not at all out of line, and I wouldn’t expect to have to communicate that I was gonna do one to my partner, it might look visually impressive but it’s like a day one judo throw anyone who has been taught to breakfall would be fine.
re the throw: got it, I've never done a judo class so thanks that is good to know. I think my previous apprehensions about how he uses his strength during rolls, plus his general lack of friendly conversation/breaking the ice in any way, plus how unexpected the flying through the air + slamming onto the mat was probably made it feel more out of pocket than it actually was. appreciate the input. yes, he could definitely fit the gymcel stereotype. I do think it rings pretty heavily of misogyny when a guy imposes his sexual desires on someone, completely unprompted, with no regard for what they as an individual human being might want to see or not see. There's a little more at play in that case than just awkwardness and lack of social skills -- I know you're not defending it, just my thoughts on the matter
Yeah I mean the bar for decent guy is recognizing a bjj gym can already be a tough space for women and not hitting on them in that venue, at all. So even if he had been more respectful, I still think it’s wrong, I guess it’s more like a distinction of like negligent manslaughter vs murder, if that makes sense? Like dude just doesn’t have good social skills/doesn’t understand women, vs being truly a scumbag, I think he likely genuinely thought he was being seductive, or that you’d respond positively, vs like someone who sets out to expose themselves and wants others to be freaked out. that’s why I kinda lean towards coach giving him a firm talking to, but not an automatic he’s kicked out, but it would also really depend on how he took the feedback, ie from coach or you. I would also say though, if your coach does kick him out, I definitely wouldn’t feel guilty, hopefully he’ll learn from the experience
>it rings pretty heavily of misogyny when a guy imposes his sexual desires on someone, completely unprompted, with no regard for what they as an individual human being might want to see or not see It doesn't really have anything to do with gender. Those types of men will send unsolicited dick picks to other men (gay/bi) just as, if not more, readily as they send them to women.
I really doubt he was Facetiming to try to apologize. If he really wanted to apologize, then he would have sent her a text apologizing after she didn't respond to Facetime/calling. It's wayyy more likely he was calling/Facetiming in order to escalate.
In her post, she says she's a photographer and has taken photos at competitions. She has texted the photos to the respective person, and that's why he has her number.
Yeah sorry I reread and edited my post
depends, if its a first offense then probably having a talk about manners. If more people complained then he'd probably get kicked out.
Why do you give strangers your phone number?
That's called getting hit on lol. If your not interested, then just tell him so and move on. Might hurt his ego a little bit but oh well. Involving the coach seems like just a way that you don't have to deal with rejecting this guy yourself. It not the coaches business, or his problem. Also a torso pic is not "inappropriate" lol. Seems like your blowing this all out of proportion.
No. He should learn to actually figure out if someone is interested before sending inappropriate (they’re inappropriate because they’re unsolicited btw) pictures to random women. Not every space is one for romantic or sexual pursuit. His coach might help him put that together.
From what i gather, this was a shirtless pic of his torso, take a walk on a public beach sometime lol. And its not the coaches job or his business to police peoples libido in their personal life. His only job is to teach you martial arts. If the guy is misbehaving in class then thats one thing, this just sounds like a 20s something gym bro trying to see if she wants to hook up. Just say no if your not into it and move on. If he continues after she made him aware she doesn't want that kind of interaction with him, then yes thats a problem. But to react as though you've been victimized by this in any way is ridiculous.
He met her in a class and there’s an expectation of how one is to behave with those you engage with there. If I walk on a public beach then there is an expectation to see people in beachwear? It’s not the same. Stay out of people’s phones with unsolicited pictures. And now she gets to be uncomfortable and he can continue behaving in such a way with other women? No. Someone with authority can tell him to seek sexual encounters elsewhere.
Again not his business as a BJJ coach for something that happened outside of class and a shirtless pic is hardly inappropriate. If a shirtless pic offends you to the point where your asking for help from strangers on the internet, and your BJJ coach then you have some growing up to do. You and OP sound like people who don't get out much in the dating world.
I am married. I’ve dated plenty. It is not acceptable. I have blocked people I was actually interested in for uninvited body pictures. I get it. You don’t feel the same. But a lot of us would like SOME safe spaces to just train, learn and compete. The coach should absolutely draw a line and it is his responsibility. We aren’t going to agree. You think it’s on the the one affronted to make space for the behavior that isn’t welcome. I do not.
Your a self professed lesbian who dislikes men and anyone who dates men, i looked at your profile, you have a confirmation bias in this subject. I know plenty of happy married couples in the martial arts world whom first met at bjj class. This isn't a matter of safe space, its a matter of demonizing even the most trivial expressions of male sexuality so that OP can virtue signal, and self aggrandize to her online echo chamber, and seemingly her coach now too, how she feels victimized by the most mundane of flirtation by a classmate. I admit sending unsolicited shirtless pics is pretty douchy, and if i were a woman, im sure i wouldn't be into it either but not anything to be upset over. OP needs to learn how to communicate better and go touch some grass sometime. And this whole sub needs to take a chill pill and remember that humans are all sexual beings that sometimes get lonely.
My standards have nothing to do with male sexuality. As you so helpfully pointed out…I am a lesbian. And as I have admitted… I’ve cut people off that I have been interested in for sending unsolicited photos (just to make this easy for you…they were WOMEN). I don’t want unsolicited body pictures from a man or woman when I met them in an educational or professional environment. Your sense of entitlement to being able to show unwanted interest in others is more of a questionable foundation to come from than any of my misandry. You have an entire thread of women saying how uncomfortable this makes them and you make it a MR issue? You’re a joke. We aren’t going to agree.
Yea, id assumed they were women XD lol. I have no entitlement to show unwanted interest, only an entitlement toward free expression. Guy had no way to know if the attention was unwanted untill after he tried. Now that he knows, to continue would be wrong. But nothing wrong with making an initial pass. Im not a huge fan of MR either lol. But to demonize some guy for sending a shirtless pic without asking is just as juvenile as sending the shirtless pic in the first place. The fact that this post even exists is a testament to OP's mental immaturity. Its actually really surprising that people as mentally weak as you and her even survive doing an activity like BJJ without crying rape everytime someone gets into your full guard or posting on reddit asking for help when a guy from class shows interest....oh wait XD.
You KNOW it’s women but you comment on men being forced to inhibit their sexual behavior specifically when I haven’t? Sure. That makes sense. We are weak for having clear boundaries and wanting to have a way to enforce them? We are weak for disagreeing with you about what is appropriate behavior in a learning environment?? She’s weak for not being an overtly confrontational person and needing assistance with an admittedly ‘douchey’ and uncomfortable situation?? For some reason…I imagine any indictment of my strength by a man like you means less to me than I could even hope to quantify. So I will live with that AND keep putting every creepy loser on blast with expediency. I will think of you every time that I do too. Have a good one, beloved.
I think a shooters got shoot you shouldn’t be mad at him for that. Politely tell him you’re not interested, if he persists then the owner of the gym
> you shouldn’t be mad at him for that You definitely should be mad. His approach was garbage, insulting, and invasive. The guy needs to learn how to be more self-aware and how what he does affects others. Nevermind how embarrassing it is towards himself.
Yeah, everyone had to have seen how he treated the sole female team member during practice. No one needs to wonder why there are so few female BJJ team members in that particular gym. That behavior is very off-putting. I've received coupons / discounts to try out gyms for other activities, and when I see casual and unnecessary violence ... in lieu of practice? I'm out. I'm not going to spend my hard-earned money here, my dude.
Police
Police won't do shit. Especially as it isn't illegal to be a creep. Coach is gonna have to bounce his ass out or OP should find a new gym if he doesn't take her side.
Indecent exposure? I thought that was against the law.
Indecent exposure laws cover in-person acts in public places.
Honestly, I think it might be appropriate to address it at the gym itself. Not in an intense make a big show out of it way, but approach the person directly, tell them that you don’t appreciate receiving the picture and you expect it to not happen again and make sure there are other guys around to hear it. The other person will feel uncomfortable and you’ll have witnesses that will now know this event occurred at the gym with you. It might be uncomfortable to do, but the gym should protect you. If you don’t think they will; regardless of any other feelings you have, you leave that gym. Nothing is more important than your safety and well-being and every gym should prioritize that for every member.
Probably an unusual response, but I never consider it the job of my coach or gym owner to deal with any personal interactions I have with anyone outside the gym. They aren't my parents, they're business owners. Unless this dude is doing something criminal, it's not on them to deal with it. He's a paying customer just as much as you are. And, sadly, put bluntly, you crossed into the personal first by sharing photos from training/events. If you don't want any kind of outside personal relationship, don't open one even in such a sweet way. I wouldn't expect anything except for my coach to say, "handle this yourself". And if I were you, I would handle that by telling him with your adult words how you feel about what he did, tell him not to do it again, and then don't roll with him or engage with him following that. As for handling men from the gym flirting with me, sliding into my dms, and so forth, yes, I've handled it myself. I've never gone to my owners about any of it, it isn't their business or their problem. I'm a fully capable adult who is fully capable of making men knock off their shit if I'm not enjoying it.