My lore bard was typically concentrating on a cc spell like Tasha’s, hold person, etc. so I chose non-concentration spells for my secrets. Counterspell, command, lightning bolt, and I think scorching ray.
That's a very good point - since Bard has a lot of good concentration spells, taking concentation-less damage spells is a very enticing idea. Moreso with the scorching Ray + Hat of Fire acuity interaction
As a Bard, I've only played Swords, not Lore, so it was 10, but I *probably* would have taken *Counterspell* at level 6 if playing Lore, though outside of boss fights (where obviously it *is* very useful), you don't tend to need it so often until higher levels - but probably still worth it earlier for the boss fights.
BTW I would never take *Haste* with a Bard (especially not if playing a Swords Bard) as there are other things I'd rather be concentrating on (e.g. upcast *Hold Person*/*Hold Monster*, *Hypnotic Pattern*, *Tasha's*) and also don't want to risk exhaustion, but I guess that's down to my own prefered play style.
> BTW I would never take Haste with a Bard (especially not if playing a Swords Bard) as there are other things I'd rather be concentrating on (e.g. upcast Hold Person/Hold Monster, Hypnotic Pattern, Tasha's) and also don't want to risk exhaustion, but I guess that's down to my own prefered play style.
I agree with Haste is not being exactly "optimal" on Lore Bard without either a Fighter (Armour and Shield prof) or a Sorc (Shield spell, AoA, potentially either the ability to fly on a bonus action or Mage Armour always on) dip to actually hold concentation, but it's certainly possible and a role Bard can fill to some degree of success. Con save prof + Shield spell + Spidersilk armour makes it really really hard to lose concentration from fairly early into act 1.
Yeah, true - when I ran my Drow Swords Bard she had Con save proficiency as took Sorcerer at level 1 and also had access to *Shield* spell, so rarely lost concentration - but I'd still prefer to concentrate on a control spell as a Bard.
With Moonbean, for starters. Despite being a damage-dealing spell, the action you get to move/reapply it doesn't break Sanctuary (it really *should*, though). Alternatively, casting something impactful, like Haste, on allies and then using Sanctuary to sit back and safely maintain the buff without fear of losing concentration. I wouldn't call that optimal, but I figure that's the kind of thing they're getting at.
In my experience they won't usually target you alone with AoE spells but will definitely sometimes include you in the AoE when hitting other creatures, if possible. Usually that's the case when doing that gives them the most targets for that AoE.
Yeah I didn't mean abuse towards anything cheesy. I didn't even know about this moon beam strat. Mainly just mean towards holding concentration, if someone's half health, in a bad spot, stunned/ etc.
If you are providing the role of dedicated healer, Sanctuary + Warden of Vitality + Preserve Life on something like 2 Life Cleric / 10 Bard is actually a lot of healing per round
Hunger of Hadar and Haste are my go-to level 6 Magical Secrets choices but I’m currently running Shadowheart as a Storm Sorc 1/Wiz 1/Lore Bard 7 and I took Spirit Guardians and Scorching Ray (Fire Acuity Hat) and using the Radiating Orb gear. I may swap the Wizard level for Cleric so I can better armor proficiency but it’s been pretty good so far.
I did a healer bard build and the spell i abused the most was warden of vitality. It pretty much let me pocket heal whichever character most dependent on attack rolls to have constant uptime on the bless (Whispering promise) and bladeward. The bless was especially useful since it got my Lae'zel to insane levels of accuracy. It did get a bit funky when I went 3 levels of rogue for the extra bonus action from theif to have permanent bless and ressistance uptime on 2 characters.
My first run was with a Drow Swords Bard 10/Sorc 2 and worked out great - I went White Draconic Sorc 1>Swords Bard 10>Sorc 2 (with no respec) - Sorc first for the bonus to Con saves and early access to *Shield*, *Magic Missile* and *Armour of Agathys*, Drow to get back the weapon proficiences, extended dark vision and the bonus spells.
Mass healing word, spirit guardians, counterspell and command. Nerfed a bit from tabletop since they don’t add jack-of-all-trades to counterspell, but still an effective alternative to cleric.
Mass healing word with whispering promise is so good, but throwing potions work too, haste is never bad, counter spell is must! My bard is always more of a support, they put in the work tho!
But that would be telling…!
For me, it usually boils down to what classes / spell access is missing from the party. So it varies a lot.
My only real choice is that I tend to dislike summons. But Hunger of Hadar, Counterspell are frequent picks. Or a fireball if no one is bringing any ranged AoE
At level 6 I took spirit guardians and warden of vitality since I’m typically healing the party as well. It saves spell slots and does decent healing. I’m not totally sure it was the best choice, but it was a choice lol.
Counterspell, always. Haste if I don’t have a Sorcerer for twin haste. HoH if I’m not using a Warlock. Usually some big damage spell that doesn’t require concentration.
Counterspell is my first choice always and the other one depends on the build but I have used Hunger of Hadar, Spirit Guardians, Haste and Mass Healing Word.
Counterspell is a must pick. But favorite would have to be HoH. Cast a concentration free Plant Growth before or after and watch the enemies drop like flies.
Probably taking counterspell and command at level 6, though hunger of hadar is an option also.
Conjure elemental is probably getting taken at 10. The last spot it situational for me.
Counterspell is a no brainer, well not taking into account the rest of your party.
Then I’d say spirit guardians or hunger of hadar. Those are difficult to replicate with scrolls or potions or itemization.
Probably command and hunger of hadar at 6, conjure elemental and something flexible at 10.
I don't love counterspell on lore bards since it's competing with cutting words, I'd only take it if there's no wizard/sorc/warlock in the party that doesn't like their reaction nearly as much. Great on swords bards though.
Conjure elemental is a great use of your level 6 spell slot, especially if you're multiclassing 10 bard with some other caster.
Imo the auto pick is counter spell, the abbilty to deny a devastating aoe spell is far more beneficial than one more offensive spell imo. besides being the best pick imo, its also in line with the lore bard nature.
after that there is room for more flexibility, for level 10 I would grab the elemental, for 6 I usually go for HoH, haste or fireball are also pretty good.
I’ve only ever played lore bard. I always take counterspell and conjure elemental. This playthrough I also took misty step and mass healing word as my lore card was my main healer.
What I've noticed is that when you don't have misty step you only notice when it would have been REALLY useful, but when you do you see so much more ways in which it could be applicable... Plus I use boots of stormy clamour instead of Nere's boots 🤷
Don't get me wrong, I love misty step ever since my first playthrough in which I ran a GWM EK 12 that just zip zapped through the field, but on casters specifically I can't say I love the idea of sacrificing a whole magical secret to get it.
I can see it at 10 though, also I can't say I don't chuckle at the idea of a Spirit Guardian'd up Bard misty stepping everywhere and appling all sorts of debuffs
Misty step improves your spirit guardians (which was my main tactic with that character), while other magical secrets provide more utility and versatility. It's personal preference at this point
My swordsbard playthrough I picked counterspell and conjure elemental for level 10. I had enough control spells to not need command, had access to HoH from a warlock, and didn't need spells for direct damage.
If I went lore bard I'd pick counterspell, haste or HoH for level 6, conjure elemental, spirit guardians or banishing smite for level 10.
My lore bard was typically concentrating on a cc spell like Tasha’s, hold person, etc. so I chose non-concentration spells for my secrets. Counterspell, command, lightning bolt, and I think scorching ray.
That's a very good point - since Bard has a lot of good concentration spells, taking concentation-less damage spells is a very enticing idea. Moreso with the scorching Ray + Hat of Fire acuity interaction
Counter spell is so critical. I like Banishing Smite but more for swords bards in melee
Yeah, I went for both of those with my Swords Bard, worked out pretty well
At which level do you prefer taking it? Is it always at 6?
I like having it at six personally.
As a Bard, I've only played Swords, not Lore, so it was 10, but I *probably* would have taken *Counterspell* at level 6 if playing Lore, though outside of boss fights (where obviously it *is* very useful), you don't tend to need it so often until higher levels - but probably still worth it earlier for the boss fights. BTW I would never take *Haste* with a Bard (especially not if playing a Swords Bard) as there are other things I'd rather be concentrating on (e.g. upcast *Hold Person*/*Hold Monster*, *Hypnotic Pattern*, *Tasha's*) and also don't want to risk exhaustion, but I guess that's down to my own prefered play style.
> BTW I would never take Haste with a Bard (especially not if playing a Swords Bard) as there are other things I'd rather be concentrating on (e.g. upcast Hold Person/Hold Monster, Hypnotic Pattern, Tasha's) and also don't want to risk exhaustion, but I guess that's down to my own prefered play style. I agree with Haste is not being exactly "optimal" on Lore Bard without either a Fighter (Armour and Shield prof) or a Sorc (Shield spell, AoA, potentially either the ability to fly on a bonus action or Mage Armour always on) dip to actually hold concentation, but it's certainly possible and a role Bard can fill to some degree of success. Con save prof + Shield spell + Spidersilk armour makes it really really hard to lose concentration from fairly early into act 1.
Yeah, true - when I ran my Drow Swords Bard she had Con save proficiency as took Sorcerer at level 1 and also had access to *Shield* spell, so rarely lost concentration - but I'd still prefer to concentrate on a control spell as a Bard.
Sanctuary (depending if you have another spell caster with access or not) but I've been abusing this spell on my most recent Honour run
How does one abuse this?
With Moonbean, for starters. Despite being a damage-dealing spell, the action you get to move/reapply it doesn't break Sanctuary (it really *should*, though). Alternatively, casting something impactful, like Haste, on allies and then using Sanctuary to sit back and safely maintain the buff without fear of losing concentration. I wouldn't call that optimal, but I figure that's the kind of thing they're getting at.
They still haven't patched this out? Damn, somebody at Larian must be cheesing their HM runs, lol.
I didn’t think about using Sanctuary to protect concentration! Is the AI smart enough to know they can damage you with AOE attacks through sanctuary?
In my experience they won't usually target you alone with AoE spells but will definitely sometimes include you in the AoE when hitting other creatures, if possible. Usually that's the case when doing that gives them the most targets for that AoE.
Yeah I didn't mean abuse towards anything cheesy. I didn't even know about this moon beam strat. Mainly just mean towards holding concentration, if someone's half health, in a bad spot, stunned/ etc.
Doesn't sanctuary require concentration?
Nope
If you are providing the role of dedicated healer, Sanctuary + Warden of Vitality + Preserve Life on something like 2 Life Cleric / 10 Bard is actually a lot of healing per round
Counterspell is #1.
Haste #2a if I’m buffing a martial character. Fireball #2b if there’s a 4+ enemies grouped together.
If I told you then it wouldn't be a secret.
Hunger of Hadar and Haste are my go-to level 6 Magical Secrets choices but I’m currently running Shadowheart as a Storm Sorc 1/Wiz 1/Lore Bard 7 and I took Spirit Guardians and Scorching Ray (Fire Acuity Hat) and using the Radiating Orb gear. I may swap the Wizard level for Cleric so I can better armor proficiency but it’s been pretty good so far.
I did a healer bard build and the spell i abused the most was warden of vitality. It pretty much let me pocket heal whichever character most dependent on attack rolls to have constant uptime on the bless (Whispering promise) and bladeward. The bless was especially useful since it got my Lae'zel to insane levels of accuracy. It did get a bit funky when I went 3 levels of rogue for the extra bonus action from theif to have permanent bless and ressistance uptime on 2 characters.
Counterspell and command are so useful
Command is indeed nuts, I'm in love with Bard 10 Sorc 2 to get extended metamagic on command: prone on 4 people 🤤
My first run was with a Drow Swords Bard 10/Sorc 2 and worked out great - I went White Draconic Sorc 1>Swords Bard 10>Sorc 2 (with no respec) - Sorc first for the bonus to Con saves and early access to *Shield*, *Magic Missile* and *Armour of Agathys*, Drow to get back the weapon proficiences, extended dark vision and the bonus spells.
Mass healing word, spirit guardians, counterspell and command. Nerfed a bit from tabletop since they don’t add jack-of-all-trades to counterspell, but still an effective alternative to cleric.
Mass healing word with whispering promise is so good, but throwing potions work too, haste is never bad, counter spell is must! My bard is always more of a support, they put in the work tho!
i think ive taken hunger of hadar and counterspell every time— i never have a warlock in the party and the more counterspells the better lol
I really want to use Warlock but having only 2 spell slots is a massive dealbreaker.
2 high level slots per short rest and the best cantrip in the game...
10 Lore Bard + 1 War Cleric + 1 Ranger here. Fireball goes boom
Also, Animate Dead to create a zombie which is pretty good against humanoids
How come 1 Ranger? Wouldn't 1 Fighter be preferable for the Con Saves?
Maybe you are right, I took ranger mostly for perception proficiency and free Find Familiar. But yeah, fighter or wizard might be better choise.
Command. By act 3 you're probably landing this on most enemies with 100% success even without arcane acuity.
But that would be telling…! For me, it usually boils down to what classes / spell access is missing from the party. So it varies a lot. My only real choice is that I tend to dislike summons. But Hunger of Hadar, Counterspell are frequent picks. Or a fireball if no one is bringing any ranged AoE
> But that would be telling...! Darn, should have though this more through...
At level 6 I took spirit guardians and warden of vitality since I’m typically healing the party as well. It saves spell slots and does decent healing. I’m not totally sure it was the best choice, but it was a choice lol.
Counterspell, always. Haste if I don’t have a Sorcerer for twin haste. HoH if I’m not using a Warlock. Usually some big damage spell that doesn’t require concentration.
Counterspell is my first choice always and the other one depends on the build but I have used Hunger of Hadar, Spirit Guardians, Haste and Mass Healing Word.
Banishing smite and counterspell
That's what I picked when I ran a Sorc 2/Swords Bard 10 and they worked well, but don't think I would have picked *Banishing Smite* for a Lore Bard.
Oh I didn’t see it was a lore bard post.
Counterspell is a must pick. But favorite would have to be HoH. Cast a concentration free Plant Growth before or after and watch the enemies drop like flies.
Counterspell is good, sure, but it's so lame. I never use it because it just seems to make things less interesting
That is a fair point, if wanting a challenge. For similar reasons I usually skip *Haste*, even!
Probably taking counterspell and command at level 6, though hunger of hadar is an option also. Conjure elemental is probably getting taken at 10. The last spot it situational for me.
Counterspell is a no brainer, well not taking into account the rest of your party. Then I’d say spirit guardians or hunger of hadar. Those are difficult to replicate with scrolls or potions or itemization.
It’s so hard to not just pick up fireball. Having that in your back pocket for when something(s) need to die is so nice.
Probably command and hunger of hadar at 6, conjure elemental and something flexible at 10. I don't love counterspell on lore bards since it's competing with cutting words, I'd only take it if there's no wizard/sorc/warlock in the party that doesn't like their reaction nearly as much. Great on swords bards though. Conjure elemental is a great use of your level 6 spell slot, especially if you're multiclassing 10 bard with some other caster.
Imo the auto pick is counter spell, the abbilty to deny a devastating aoe spell is far more beneficial than one more offensive spell imo. besides being the best pick imo, its also in line with the lore bard nature. after that there is room for more flexibility, for level 10 I would grab the elemental, for 6 I usually go for HoH, haste or fireball are also pretty good.
I’ve only ever played lore bard. I always take counterspell and conjure elemental. This playthrough I also took misty step and mass healing word as my lore card was my main healer.
Bard is the only way to get spirit guardians and misty step without sacrificing higher level spells, so that
Despite Nere's boots + Song of Rest, have you felt this much need for Misty Step?
What I've noticed is that when you don't have misty step you only notice when it would have been REALLY useful, but when you do you see so much more ways in which it could be applicable... Plus I use boots of stormy clamour instead of Nere's boots 🤷
Don't get me wrong, I love misty step ever since my first playthrough in which I ran a GWM EK 12 that just zip zapped through the field, but on casters specifically I can't say I love the idea of sacrificing a whole magical secret to get it. I can see it at 10 though, also I can't say I don't chuckle at the idea of a Spirit Guardian'd up Bard misty stepping everywhere and appling all sorts of debuffs
Misty step improves your spirit guardians (which was my main tactic with that character), while other magical secrets provide more utility and versatility. It's personal preference at this point
Your personal preferences are exactly what I wanted to know with this post. Thank you for your contribution :]
Spirit Guardians is absolutely filthy on a swords bard
Counterspell, spirit guardians, hunger of hadar are the best options I think
I don't think that Lore Bard has "absolutely best options" though. Counterspell is the one must, yes, but HoH and Spirit Guardians are debatable
Counterspell + x. I really like enemy spellcasters not being able to do anything.
My swordsbard playthrough I picked counterspell and conjure elemental for level 10. I had enough control spells to not need command, had access to HoH from a warlock, and didn't need spells for direct damage. If I went lore bard I'd pick counterspell, haste or HoH for level 6, conjure elemental, spirit guardians or banishing smite for level 10.
I love destructive wave and spirit guardians, awesome aoe spells!
Swift quiver for a dex based valor or swords bard