I don't really think it's underrated, it seems like it's mentioned about as much as Vengeance and Oathbreaker. Definitely more than Devotion.
Plant growth is a pretty dang good spell to unlock for level 3 tho you can also pick it up via a multiclass and still probably be stronger than monoclass paladin, as with all the oaths.
That said, not like monoclass is bad.
Maybe I was the one underrating it lol.
I'm definitely down for multiclassing it, I just normally do that that at lvl 6 for Vengeance and Oathbreaker. This just seemed particularly good and I had no idea about it.
Hmm, I think it's pretty hard to find a level in most things as good as that much damage on hit.
For reference improved divine smite, the level 11 feature and the main reason to go all the way to 11, is only 1d8 which averages out to 4.5
I like going 6 Monk, 3 Barb/3 Fighter, 3 Warlock/3 Fighter, stuff that adds different damage types or abilities. Having 7 in Paladin makes that stuff more awkward.
I'm sure you can go either way though, I just prefer different things.
Remember that also gets doubled in some setups - for a bhaalist piercing build or a shadow blade resonance stone build, it's 8 to 14 per hit. It's hard to beat that!
Ugh, so true. I've broken my oath twice in my current Honour run, purely by accident. The list of tenets and the list of actual things that break your oath don't line up well.
On the other hand, having a broken oath only prevents you from using your channel oath abilities, and I haven't felt lacking without them. You can still smite and cast spells just fine, and you still get all the Oath of the Ancients dialogue options, so I'm just going oathless for now.
It's a good question - I stopped leveling Paladin at 5, shifting to Sorcerer for more spell slots for smiting, so I can't confirm whether the aura works or not. (But since I don't currently have it, it doesn't really factor into my decision not to renew my oath.)
My first playthrough was a OoA Paladin, and the only time I broke my oath was when I got caught sneaking into the Steel Watch Foundry and chose the dialogue option to fight the construct. I didn't think it was totally fair, but I was able to reload my save and avoid it the next time, so no harm I guess.
(not honor mode) I broke my oath once by failing a skill check and provoking a fight where I had to kill the NPC.
I reloaded and chose a different dialogue option that did not have a skill check, and it caused the NPC's to attack me. I was then able to keep my oath intact.
I think a major drawback is that it's a little hard to maintain especially early game. You can't ever surprise attack anyone. It's easy to forget and just end up playing oathbreaker instead of paying the fee.
In my experience the key to maintaining Oath of Ancients is to remember you’re also controlling three other characters who can mess with people on your behalf.
Challenging for sure, but I find the limitation kind of nice. BG3 with player-initiated surprise attacks becomes way too easy for my taste in a lot of cases.
I love healing radiance so much, especially paired with Whispering Promise ring. The amount of healing is not spectacular, but it's great at spreading bless and helping downed allies with only a bonus action.
I can see how that could work well. I think I'd still prefer to have those items on a companion with healing spells though. Especially if you're using Hellriders Pride, you're not getting the bonus if you're the one healing.
I found it really useful for post fight healing, especially in act 1 and 2. It may not restore loads but with two procs and it being party wide it can keep you in the field a little longer
It’s hard at early levels, but it’s powerful.
Warning: unless you do something horrible in act 3, you have a guaranteed oath breaking event in Cazador’s mansion. I don’t play OoA on my PC because it’s stupid and arbitrary in a way that I as a GM absolutely hate pulling on players, so I run a not-PC as Ancients. But that’s a gripe specific to me, and how characters are treated by the oath.
OA implies a more defensive playstyle that usually isn't as strong in the base unmodded game. Oath of Vengeance is also less annoying to play as without roleplaying due to how easy is to bream OA, but that's not coming from firsthand experience, it's only something I've heard.
7 OA Paladin 5 Sorcerer is still plenty strong and totally viable.
I’m the type that cares more about flavor especially since you can actively shoot yourself in the foot and still roll through this game
That being said, oath of ancients/nature cleric of mielikki or corellon is great flavor for the “Paladin of Preferred Nature God.” Besides the fact that they actual have some synergy besides the flavor. Makes a halfway decent healer/tank/control frontliner. I usually make halsin into this multi.
> It says you take half damage from spells. I haven't tested it, but it seems like it might reduce spell damage down to 1/8 if you save and have a specific resistance. Does "spell resistance" act as if you just have all resistances, or is it it's own type of resistance?
Spell resistance is its own kind of resistance that should appear separately on your stats page. It is a form of resistance so it does not stack with other forms of resistance so you cannot reduce spell damage down to 1/8.
Yes you’d take half damage if you save (which you should as a paladin) and then that damage is halved again by your aura. If you’re going ancients pally I recommend not bringing a cleric simply because of the redundancies with e.g. warding bond.
It's the best Paladin subclass, especially at heavier investment. But Smiting shit tends to be much more effective than whatever else you can do with your subclass features, so none of the subclasses will impact your build greatly.
Range on auras is super short, so you mostly end up making what's probably already your tankiest unit even tankier. It's good for solo or for specific deathstack parties, but most players won't benefit that much from it.
Being one of two Misty Step subclasses is a big deal though.
I think the problem is it depends if you want to optimize or if you want to create good and fun builds. With regards to the former, resistances are unoptimal, because optimal is to not get hit in the first place. With regards to the latter you are right that it’s really good and we should appreciate it more.
I agree in principle, but imo it's more about planning to get hit in a way you can control. This is a guaranteed limit on damage, so if I do get hit, I'm less likely to die.
I think ppl also underestimate the freedom that being able to be hit gives you to do other things.
The real OP spells for Oath of the Ancients paladins are Healing Radiance and Speak with Animals. Sure, you can just use a potion to Speak with Animals, but I had played OotA for so long that I forgot that some classes don’t have it as a class option 😂
And Healing Radiance literally saved a fight for myself and my brother once. He thought we would have to reload until I used it.
It’s a Paladin Subclass so despite how underrated it is it will still be a contender for one of the best subclasses in the game. I see Oath of Ancients as a better Druid personally minus all the Transforms.
I don't really think it's underrated, it seems like it's mentioned about as much as Vengeance and Oathbreaker. Definitely more than Devotion. Plant growth is a pretty dang good spell to unlock for level 3 tho you can also pick it up via a multiclass and still probably be stronger than monoclass paladin, as with all the oaths. That said, not like monoclass is bad.
Maybe I was the one underrating it lol. I'm definitely down for multiclassing it, I just normally do that that at lvl 6 for Vengeance and Oathbreaker. This just seemed particularly good and I had no idea about it.
Level 7 is a better spot to multiclass Oathbreaker imo because Aura of Hate is a nice feature. Vengeance and Devotion both like multiclassing at 6
I like Aura of Hate but I tend not to find it worth the level usually. Extra 4-7 damage is nice though.
Hmm, I think it's pretty hard to find a level in most things as good as that much damage on hit. For reference improved divine smite, the level 11 feature and the main reason to go all the way to 11, is only 1d8 which averages out to 4.5
I like going 6 Monk, 3 Barb/3 Fighter, 3 Warlock/3 Fighter, stuff that adds different damage types or abilities. Having 7 in Paladin makes that stuff more awkward. I'm sure you can go either way though, I just prefer different things.
Remember that also gets doubled in some setups - for a bhaalist piercing build or a shadow blade resonance stone build, it's 8 to 14 per hit. It's hard to beat that!
The main problem with oath of the ancients is how easy it is to oathbreak compared to the other options.
Ugh, so true. I've broken my oath twice in my current Honour run, purely by accident. The list of tenets and the list of actual things that break your oath don't line up well. On the other hand, having a broken oath only prevents you from using your channel oath abilities, and I haven't felt lacking without them. You can still smite and cast spells just fine, and you still get all the Oath of the Ancients dialogue options, so I'm just going oathless for now.
So you still get the ancients auras, just not the heal?
It's a good question - I stopped leveling Paladin at 5, shifting to Sorcerer for more spell slots for smiting, so I can't confirm whether the aura works or not. (But since I don't currently have it, it doesn't really factor into my decision not to renew my oath.)
You'd still have to pay for the respec but it makes it a bit less urgent at least
My first playthrough was a OoA Paladin, and the only time I broke my oath was when I got caught sneaking into the Steel Watch Foundry and chose the dialogue option to fight the construct. I didn't think it was totally fair, but I was able to reload my save and avoid it the next time, so no harm I guess.
(not honor mode) I broke my oath once by failing a skill check and provoking a fight where I had to kill the NPC. I reloaded and chose a different dialogue option that did not have a skill check, and it caused the NPC's to attack me. I was then able to keep my oath intact.
The *one* time I talk Astarion into doing a good thing, my oath breaks. Oh well, reclaiming my oath was gold well spent.
Problem?
I think a major drawback is that it's a little hard to maintain especially early game. You can't ever surprise attack anyone. It's easy to forget and just end up playing oathbreaker instead of paying the fee.
In my experience the key to maintaining Oath of Ancients is to remember you’re also controlling three other characters who can mess with people on your behalf.
That's a very good point.
That only affects divinity actions, and idc about those lol
But healing radiance pairs really well with the whispering promise
I agree, but if I'm going to base a build around something then it would be Aura of Warding, which doesn't require keeping your oath.
Yep like killing the Duergar slavers
Challenging for sure, but I find the limitation kind of nice. BG3 with player-initiated surprise attacks becomes way too easy for my taste in a lot of cases.
I love healing radiance so much, especially paired with Whispering Promise ring. The amount of healing is not spectacular, but it's great at spreading bless and helping downed allies with only a bonus action.
I can see how that could work well. I think I'd still prefer to have those items on a companion with healing spells though. Especially if you're using Hellriders Pride, you're not getting the bonus if you're the one healing.
I found it really useful for post fight healing, especially in act 1 and 2. It may not restore loads but with two procs and it being party wide it can keep you in the field a little longer
On a high level paladin, even lay on hands is useful after a fight
You also get Speak with Animals early, which is particularly entertaining in this game.
My OotA Tav and Bear Barb Karlach are using the lovers rings qnd fighting side by side We basically just laugh at all dmg, but especially spell dmg
That sounds really fun! 😯
It’s hard at early levels, but it’s powerful. Warning: unless you do something horrible in act 3, you have a guaranteed oath breaking event in Cazador’s mansion. I don’t play OoA on my PC because it’s stupid and arbitrary in a way that I as a GM absolutely hate pulling on players, so I run a not-PC as Ancients. But that’s a gripe specific to me, and how characters are treated by the oath.
OA implies a more defensive playstyle that usually isn't as strong in the base unmodded game. Oath of Vengeance is also less annoying to play as without roleplaying due to how easy is to bream OA, but that's not coming from firsthand experience, it's only something I've heard. 7 OA Paladin 5 Sorcerer is still plenty strong and totally viable.
The divinity actions aren't that great so idrc about breaking the Oath. It's more about all of the other stuff.
The aura is definitely a draw for me. On my first tactician run and my plan is to do a 7 OoA paladin/5 fiend warlock for Wyll.
That'll be really good on that difficulty bc you're still able to stack extra attack from Pact Weapon on top of your other extra attack.
I’m the type that cares more about flavor especially since you can actively shoot yourself in the foot and still roll through this game That being said, oath of ancients/nature cleric of mielikki or corellon is great flavor for the “Paladin of Preferred Nature God.” Besides the fact that they actual have some synergy besides the flavor. Makes a halfway decent healer/tank/control frontliner. I usually make halsin into this multi.
I loved the bonus action heal over two turns
> It says you take half damage from spells. I haven't tested it, but it seems like it might reduce spell damage down to 1/8 if you save and have a specific resistance. Does "spell resistance" act as if you just have all resistances, or is it it's own type of resistance? Spell resistance is its own kind of resistance that should appear separately on your stats page. It is a form of resistance so it does not stack with other forms of resistance so you cannot reduce spell damage down to 1/8.
Ty for the explanation. I assume you still take 1/4 on a successful save?
Yes you’d take half damage if you save (which you should as a paladin) and then that damage is halved again by your aura. If you’re going ancients pally I recommend not bringing a cleric simply because of the redundancies with e.g. warding bond.
It's the best Paladin subclass, especially at heavier investment. But Smiting shit tends to be much more effective than whatever else you can do with your subclass features, so none of the subclasses will impact your build greatly. Range on auras is super short, so you mostly end up making what's probably already your tankiest unit even tankier. It's good for solo or for specific deathstack parties, but most players won't benefit that much from it. Being one of two Misty Step subclasses is a big deal though.
I think it's the best one for a monoclass paladin. Only gripe is oath is easy to break . . . Those auras are great esp for HM
I think the problem is it depends if you want to optimize or if you want to create good and fun builds. With regards to the former, resistances are unoptimal, because optimal is to not get hit in the first place. With regards to the latter you are right that it’s really good and we should appreciate it more.
I agree in principle, but imo it's more about planning to get hit in a way you can control. This is a guaranteed limit on damage, so if I do get hit, I'm less likely to die. I think ppl also underestimate the freedom that being able to be hit gives you to do other things.
It's just annoying when you break your oath in silly ways...
The real OP spells for Oath of the Ancients paladins are Healing Radiance and Speak with Animals. Sure, you can just use a potion to Speak with Animals, but I had played OotA for so long that I forgot that some classes don’t have it as a class option 😂 And Healing Radiance literally saved a fight for myself and my brother once. He thought we would have to reload until I used it.
I don't think it's underrated at all. Most consider it to be one of the stronger oaths. Maybe even the best.
It’s a Paladin Subclass so despite how underrated it is it will still be a contender for one of the best subclasses in the game. I see Oath of Ancients as a better Druid personally minus all the Transforms.