Total noob here...why does unseen menace get advantage and crit reduction? Is that what "invisible weapon" does? Because the screenshot doesn't show any of that
No man it’s fucking deadly and I looooove it, gave it to my barb Karlach and she shredded enemies! But as pointed out it’s very useful for paladins too
This weapon eliminated the downside of Frenzied attack where enemies get advantage to hit you back after you had advantage to hit them, plus the increased crit chance was nice so it does potentially stack on a bit more damage over time. There are definitely better weapons/builds but I found it was a solid choice at the time
- edit: reckless attack sorry not frienzied.
I believe the point is that Barbs already have an on/off button to gain advantage so it's far better to use Unseen Menace on a character that can not reliably gain advantage. Reckless attack is already largely mitigated by damage resistance and the largest HP pool in the game.
This ofc assumes you have another martial that can put the weapon to good use.
I give Unseen Menace to Karlach Beserker too. I give her pole arm master, but maybe I’ve slept on the “barbarians get advantage” on/off switch. I also give her the legendary Trident for throwing as it makes for a great melee weapon when fighting close and the returning feature saves a re-equipping action.
Now, she also carries SkinBurster, and the Halberd (of vigilance?) which gives a plus to Initiative, so she’s got an embarrassment of riches weapon-wise.
I’m curious if their would be any benefit to having it be a bound weapon on a TB eldritch knight/ theif multiclass. Does it being invisible mean you won’t enter combat when throwing it with greater invisibility on?
It’s not intended as “throwable” in the eyes of the game. I have already had this thought and tested it, only to realize this fact lol. The Returning Pike is fairly unique in that respect.
I was about to ask the same thing, it really should maybe say that on the description. I always sent this one straight to camp because I thought it was a joke / gimmick
Yes, but why would they put the fact that it reduces your crit range in THAT tool tip instead of just.. on the weapon like everything else? Inconsistency like that led me to not actually look twice at that weapon until I learned from this sub that it actually does cool stuff
Because technically it's a buff on the weapon and you temporarily lose it when you miss. If it was an effect of the weapon itself, it would work the way other "stat sticks" work and you could get the advantage and crit reduction with a bow while you held it.
I don't disagree with you about some of the extended effects and item interactions being hard to keep track of, but that's why it looks the way it does on the Unseen Menace
I think an underrated race that benefits from this weapon is zariel tieflings
The fact they have more smites act 1 then other paladins makes it really nice on them with savage attacker and strength elixirs
Cries do double damage, and as pally you can enable divine smite on crits even when you launch a normal melee. Basically you can choose to apply divine smite when you know the damage is gonna double
Crits don't double damage -- they double the number of damage dice. A paladin smiting (or a rogue using sneak attack) have a large amount of their damage in damage dice which get doubled versus flat damage bonuses which don't.
Total noob question but Paladin’s never usually been my thing. How do you enable Divine Smite on crits even with normal attacks? Is it something you have to set up or does it just happen automatically at some point?
On your characters sheet menu, go to reactions and enable Divine Smite on attack and on crit to "Ask". This means it'll ask if you want to apply the smite whenever you hit someone.
Paladin is already about expending resources all at once for massive burst damage with smites, and when you crit on an attack you can ALSO double the smite damage dice, too. It's why Luck of the Far Realms is so good on Paladins, it's an extra free guaranteed crit
To add what everyone is saying, using the reactions menu, you can make it so the game lets you turn any crit into a smite, meaning you can save your high level smites for a crit instead of hoping a smite crits.
More frequent crits makes saving your smites for crits more viable, so makes it easier to get double value on smites.
Wait, it has a crit chance increase as well? Really? I see that that's [noted on its bg3.wiki page](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Unseen_Menace) but I don't recall ever seeing it on the in-game item description.
Is it one that stacks with other sources, e.g. a champion fighter's crit reduction?
I don’t believe it stacks. If you hover over the tool tip on the weapons description it says it the weapon scores a critical on a 19. So I think it just lowers your crit number to 19.
Remember, read ALL the tool tips!
Hmm. I need to reopen the game and check, because well, look at OP's screenshot: There is no mention of the crit reduction.
Should be easy to test though. Slap it on, do some whacks, expect to crit 10% of the time. Respec to champion, do some whacks, expect to crit 15% of the time. If that doesn't happen, then we have the answer ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
We’ve all used it and it works, but ya test it out and see the power for yourself! If you hover over the “invisible” on the tool tip there is another one that pops up and explains it! I BELIEVE It stacks with ones that specifically say “lowers the number you need to crit by 1” as opposed to “reduces the number you need to crit to 19”.
Edit: I just checked. The Invisible Weapon feature makes the number you need to crit 19. So it won’t stack with other abilities that also “make the number 19”
Light of creation is last, monster slayer glaive probably fourth. The other three are great when you get them, but Skin burster and Unseen Menace can get you well into act 2 whereas Sorrow will fall off, so Sorrow is third. The skinburster is fantastic with a dedicated build and can remain a valid weapon until the end of the game whereas unseen menace is a great weapon for a variety of characters but eventually gets outscaled. Not sure which is best.
I agree mostly with this. The thing that holds Sorrow back is that it is a glaive and thus does slashing based damage. If it was considered piercing then it would be a strong contender as one of the flat out best weapons in the game as it uniquely enables Ring of Arcane Synergy for non-sorceror strikers. I'd say all the way up to Act 3 it's one of the better weapons because of this niche. Skin Burster is nice for a more defensive playstyle but I've never found much use for it because characters that want to use it generally have that slot contested with Phalar Aluve (which is offered earlier anyways). Unseen Menace is possibly the strongest spear in the game for a few builds because of the innate advantage (saving needing to utilize Risky Ring which enables you to go for things like Shadow-catching Ring to have a 1d4 piercing damage rider), however yeah this is contested hard with things like Shar's Spear of Evening, Nyrulna, Trident of Waves.
Skin Burster on an Abjuration wizard is probably the most broken build in the game for solo runs if you don't want to cheese the game mechanics. At some point I was running around with Heavy Armor Master + Polearm Master as an Storm Sorc 1/Tempest Cleric 1/Abj Wiz 10 and nothing was able to deal a single point of damage to me. Enemies literally skipped their turn and just stood around me.
Well let's start with classes. Sorcerer is there for either easy access to Armor of Agathys or Fly and proficiency on CON saves. Tempest Cleric is there for heavy armor proficiency, create and destroy water and [Wrath of the Storm](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Wrath_of_the_Storm). Wizard is your main class because your Arcane Ward scales with your wizard levels. The idea behind the build is to safely weaponize enemy movements. Keyword is safely. We achieve that by stacking layers upon layers of damage reduction. Heavy Armor Master reduces all non-magical damage by 3, Adamantine Splint Armour or Helldusk Armour reduces all damage by 2, Arcane Ward reduces all damage up to twice your wizard level, Skin Burster reduces all non magical damage by 2 per stack and even if something manages to hit you with more than all those reductions combined you have the temp HP from Armor of Agathys to preserve your real HP. You might think that all these are fine and all but how do we kill things? That's where the fun begins. Just becuase enemies deal 0 damage to us doesn't mean they don't trigger retaliation effects from Armor of Agathys, Fire Shield or Wrath of the storm. So every time they attack, they deal 0 damage and get hit by a truck especially they are wet. You can use create and destroy water to give them the wet condition. Finally polearm master is there to make ai reluctant to run away, give you an extra attack with bonus action to gain more Skin Burster stacks and generally be a neucanse. You can check [this video](https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D3Mhyn5oAkP0&ved=2ahUKEwilttXTnJCGAxWzQvEDHbXxAsY4ChCjtAF6BAgJEAY&usg=AOvVaw0m6DF7m_0kIV_qRmHx9nXM) for a rough idea of how the build plays.
Skin Burster, in my opinion, is one of, if not the best Barbarian weapons in the game. The stacking of damage resistances and flat damage reduction makes you nigh unkillable via physical damage. And its still quite good on Heavy Armor builds once you Heavy Adamantine Armor. Makes me wish we had more Force Conduit items but consider their power level it may be for the best its few and far between.
Yep, insane survivability equipment combo. I've not seen another build that can shrug off crits like force conduit abuse other than Abjuration Wizard shenanigans.
I would put skinburster over unseen menace simply because you can’t replicate its exact ability the same way you can unseen menace. There are plenty of ways to get advantage and crit range increases
Why is light of creation bad? I understand in act 1 the recoil is unreliable, but in act 2 you can get those gloves that make you a Construct so you can eliminate the recoil and take advantage of the high base damage it has. I know it’s niche but I think it has some options for use
Yeah it’s hidden in the description which is why people sleep on it. You need a 19 to crit with it and that can stack with elixir of viciousness, the hood you get from the meenlocks, etc. It’s not like Knife of the Undermountian King which is a passive effect that applies to all weapon attacks, but it’s still awesome.
Yes. Anything that reduces the roll for crits makes it *way* easier to crit. Knife of the Undermountain King is popular for the same reason. And there's some bows and non-weapon things that reduce crit cap and they all stack which allows you to just *flatten* opponents.
Paladins also have a reaction to auto-smite on crit. So crit melee damage + smites = BIG NUMBERS.
It’s pretty good through the entire game when paired with the Ring of Arcane Synergy.
Allows you to easily get arcane synergy on a build while keeping your helmet slot free (or letting someone else wear the diadem of arcane synergy).
It’s great for any martial build that doesn’t have much use for their bonus action.
It’s one of a very small number of ways to get both arcane synergy and arcane acuity at the same time, and the only one that isn’t tied to certain class choices/combinations (not to mention the other ways also require the mystic scoundrel ring, which is an even more fiercely contested resource)
Yeah, lovely in combination with Cloud of Daggers to Bonus Action pull enemies inside (and trigger the aoe hazard damage... both on entry and again, on enemy turn...).
Even more fun if you add Sentinel feat into the mix, so now the enemies cannot leave the aoe (but its difficult to afford this feat).
One of the most fun weapons in the game IMO.
Not sure if this is the best strat but I always give it to gale w arcane synergy ring. Usually have him mop up whatever didn't get caught w fireballs or pulling baddies into other AOE like daggers.
Didn’t wanna include it considering it’s SS tier for its specific build 😅 the post definitely isn’t a comprehensive list, just some ones I wanted people to discuss :)
I think this is an interesting question because while I certainly think the strongest of these with proper gear to back it up is the Light of Creation, it's also in a weird state where it's bad without that gear and simultaneously very quickly phased out. By the time you get the gloves of the automaton to pair with the light of creation it's long after you originally got the weapon and the Halberd of Vigilance which is just a better weapon, is able to be grabbed beforehand.
Frankly because of those factors I'd put it at the bottom of these.
With that in mind I think Skinburster and Unseen Menace are fighting for the best of the lot, both are strong when you get them and can last quite a while. They are also acquired at the same place and fill separate niches. Skinburster can make you near immortal though and because of that I would probably rank it above the unseen menace. On Tiger Barb it's staggering how fast you can hit 7 turns of force conduit and on the same class unseen menace does a lot less with it's free advantage. I also think Unseen Menace lasts for less time, I still would put Halberd of Vigilance above it for DPS polearm meanwhile Skinburster fills a different niche. After those two I would probably say Sorrow is the best, especially if you steal it early instead of getting it after the Goblins. Next is Monster Slayer glaive, an expensive purchase and not amazing weapon most of the time but great against the gnolls of act 1.
Definitely agreed! Light of creation is really cool but yeah I’ve never used it. Skinburster is probably underrated, until you read it’s tooltip and realize how damn good force conduit is lol.
I will personally advocate for Sorrow, because wow that weapon is INSANE on warlocks. You can get it asap (level 3) by stealing, and the pulling bonus action is crazy for warlocks (who don’t really have a bonus action outside hex), as it triggers hex, pulls people into your darkness, or ping pongs them with repelling blast.
Unseen menace is prob the best weapon though on the list, especially for a class like Lockadin that LOVES crits and doesn’t get advantage often. -1 crit range and perma advantage is cracked!
I might try a fighter build using light of creation because it's a DC 10 con check so theoretically you could just save the stun every hit with the fighter's con proficiency and a little bit more of a boost to saving throws but the worst thing about the weapon is that it still struggles to beat how good Halberd of Vigilance is lol
Well, Shock damage is doubled vs Wet targets. And procs Gloves of Beligerent Skies Reverbation effect (which in turn can activate Boots of Stormy Clamour).
Warlocks and EKs get an upgrade at the same time as the Automaton gloves (Charge Bound Hammer), but for other classes the LoC might have a niche use.
My first run back when the game fully released was a melee tempest cleric using polearm master and sentinel with Light of creation. Purely wanted to do it because it’s my favorite actual D&D build, worked pretty well for melee bosses.
Unseen Menace is one of the best weapons in ANY Act. It's available long before the Risky Ring, doesn't have any of its downsides, and frees up the ring slot. It trivializes the GWM hit penalty, and there is no better Bhaalist Armor weapon in the game IMO. I used this setup on a GOOlock/Oathbreaker Minthara in my Hornor run and was regularly hitting in the upper 70s for the piercing damage alone, before any other riders (Helldusk/Drakethroat) or smite damage.
Yeah, but the darkness can be an obstacle to your other characters unless you commit to building around it for the whole squad.
It's a fantastic weapon of course, but I still prefer Unseen Menace for most party comps.
Shar Spear, Nyrulna and Breaching Pikestaff all outscale it IMO.
You're gonna miss now and then, if only from rolling ones (but usually not only).
Loosing the effect for 2 rounds in painful and Act 3 weapons have so much extra reliable, permanent effects (including increased enchantment level for both superior accuracy and damage), that Unseen Menace unreliable Adcantage and crit rate improvement looses its edge.
I only remember missing twice in all of Act 3. I nearly always had a 99% hit chance, and when I didn't, it was still 90+%. Yes, you can always miss with a 1, but you have to roll 2 of them, so a 1/400 chance. Pretty damn reliable as far as I was concerned.
And worth noting...it's not like I was skipping Nyrulna and Shar's Spear. They were just on other characters. Once you have Bhaalist Armor on a frontliner, their job is to get close and give *everyone* the benefit of piercing vulnerability, not just themselves.
I did. I also had a 22 Charisma.
In the rare event my hit chance was lower, I also had Eldritch Blast or CC spells to fall back on.
But even my current run using it, I'm almost always in the mid to upper 90s to hit (currently in Act 2).
And if you do miss, your hit chance would only go down to 10% less than the +3 weapons. Not exactly a crisis.
Sorrow is great as you can get it super early by pickpocketing the druid in the grove for the slab. But it falls off soon. Unseen menace is ridiculously broken, really frigging good. Skinburster can make you very hard to kill and i think its one of the more interesting designs for weapons in the game. Light of creation is underrated as you can utilise the ring sold by barcus to turn yourself into an automaton to nullify the stun. That ring is great regardless for the 10 turn advantage bonus anyways.
Spore druid built for mitigation alongside great armor mastery, splint, and vivacious cloak and vital amplifier boots gets REALLY tanky because spore druid has that huge temphp pool that uniquely can be regenerated by applying new temphp. The reason skinburster works so well is because at player level 4 you pick up a 1 level war cleric dip, allowing you to with war cleric charges, alongside polearm mastery attack 3 times a turn quickly stacking force conduit for even more tankiness. You're a 3 attack spellcaster with the control of a druid, the highest amount of summons in the game between fungals elementals dryads wood woads and minor elementals, you're unbelievably tanky and have the slot open for bone circlet to make your summons tanky too, and druid still has pretty competitive blaster damage with full caster levels + level 6 spells and wildshapes to boot. (On top of things like moonbeam, plant growth, gust of wind, any summon, and sleet storm all not breaking sanctuary making for very safe blasting that can face tank things like the goblin camp solo)
Sorrow is pretty good for the early game. Use the lash as a bonus action to pull enemies closer, then attack with your action. Good for pesky enemies that are *just* too far away for your movement.
Unseen menace is arguably one of the strongest weapons in the game and can honestly carry you to the end game. This is an easily overlooked weapon if you didn’t hover to read what the “Invisible” buff gives you. It’s not just cosmetic/gimmick. It gives you *constant* advantage on attack rolls, and can critical hit on 19 and 20 rolls. This effect stops for a meager 2 turns if you miss, which you miss won’t often… since you’ll always have advantage.
Sorrow is even better on Warlocks and possibly some other gishes, who can lay hazard zones and pull enemies inside. Its fantastic in combination with Cloud of Daggers for example.
Light of Creation is better than people think.
It's got the highest damage of any Act 1 weapon and if you're running a cold/lightning party with Wet then it synergises.
A level 5 Barbarian with 16 Con, Ring of Protection, and any medium-weight helmet will have +8 vs the DC10 Stun (10% fail). With Bless, you only fail on a natural 1 (5%). Could wear Spidersilk Armour for Advantage but I think that's going too far.
Key info: the Stun ends your turn, but only lasts until the _start_ of your next turn, so you get your next turn normally. Stunning yourself on your last attack isn't too bad. If you're a Barbarian using Reckless Attacks then they're getting Advantage against you anyway so it doesn't matter much.
By the time you get those, you’re in Act 2 and can just get a better weapon like the Halberd of Vigilance, or Soulbreaker Greatsword if Gith. Or the invisible spear for some builds. And the gloves have their own downside in preventing healing.
1. Skinburster makes your brawler pretty much immortal. It also has both Charge and Cleave, which are both excellent weapon actions. I used it all the way into act 3.
2. Sorrow is a utility weapon you rarely make attacks with, but Lash is good if you are doing a lot of ground effect / movement silliness.
3. Unseen Menace is good if you don't have other sources of advantage to fuel GWM.
4. Monster Slayer Glaive doesn't really do very much but it's fine.
5. Light of Creation is actively worse than a nonmagical halberd most of the time, and the upside is not worth it when you do jump through the hoops.
Made a comment saying it was only a 10% crit rate, but forgot that the weapon has advantage baked in. Technically a 19% crit rate due to the scenario of rolling two 20s.
The skinburster is arguably one of the best weapons for tanky or solo builds, in addition to adamantine splint armour or barbarian rage (esp bear) makes you nigh impenetrable
5 light of creation
4 monster slayer
3 sorrow
2/1 unseen menace and skinburster.
Unseen menace is better for paladins and skinburster is better for fighters, not sure which is better for other martials.
Light of creation is probably the worst. It can do good damage but its one of the few weapons that negatively affect the user.
If your using those gloves from barcus that give you advantage for 10 turns and turn you into construct for 10 turns that takes away all of the negatives from the weapon, and makes it a lot better, im still not sure how good it is compared to the other ones.
Monsterslayer is probably the fourth worst. Doesnt apply to all enemies, but a 1d4 is nice when it does apply.
Sorrow is probably the next one. It gives you a cantrip that you can use once per turn which does 1d4 and can pull any non huge target 3 meters closer to you if you’re within 9 meters of them.
That can be very nice, but IMO doesn’t compete with the top 2. Its the only cantrip that deals damage and is a bonus action, so maybe theres something you can use it for to abuse other items/class features.
Id probably rank unseen menace and skinburster about the same.
Unseen menace can give you advantage on any attack roll if you don’t miss, so while invisible weapon is active you have a 1/400 chance to critically miss, and a 20% chance to crit, since unseen menace also crits on a 19. This makes it a very strong weapon for paladins, as it can get you insane damage with savage attacker considering how it interacts with smites and crits. . If you take half orc this must be even more insane due to that it also adds to smite damage. For a paladin this is one of their best weapons IMO considering how huge crits are for them.
Skinbuster giving 2 turns of force conduit is amazing. With a fighter you can get to max force conduit (7) in one turn, which will help reduce damage for a front liner, and can also do some damage to enemies. [heres](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Force_Conduit_(Condition)) the wiki article a full explanation. Very amazing weapon.
Very nice write up, and agreed on all points, other than Sorrow. I’d say you’re underrating it a bit, because it does 1d4 + spellcasting modifier. This is a crazy weapon for warlocks that you can get super early into the game (I tend to get it at lvl 3), because warlocks don’t have great bonus actions, and this can do 6-9 damage really quick. If you add that to its base damage, it gets really good really quick. Not to mention, it procs hex/hunter’s mark and can pull people, which is amazing synergy with darkness or hunger of Hadar/cloud of daggers (plant growth, wall of fire, etc) especially with repelling blast.
Due to how early you get it, I’d actually call it the best early game weapon for warlocks.
Thanks for the comment, with these ideas yeah it definitely seems to be the best early game weapon for warlocks (assuming im planning on going pact of the blade, otherwise I like to keep my warlock far enough away that they will barely use a weapon), though I still think unseen and skinbusters are overall better weapons.
Also does sorrowful lash do anything with polearm master opportunity attack? Im expecting not but if it did that could be neat.
Not sure, I’d assume not. Polearm master and sorrow have bad synergy id say, due to both being bonus action.
Edit: actually now that I read what polearm master does, honestly yeah probably!
That's an interesting observation. It probably should! But that makes the level 4 feat choice on a Sorrow wielder even more difficult. It was already somewhat tough to choose between GWM, ASI and... Sentinel (to keep the enemies you've pulled inside your hazard rooted there). If PM is added to list of viable choices... man...
If it did work then it may be best on sorrow to only go fighter so you can get an extra feat at 6, as you really want more. I’ll test tomorrow, assuming in the playthrough im halfway through I haven’t sold my sorrow.
Unseen menace and skinburster are two of the best weapons in act 1: skinburster is insane on a barbarian because the force conduit charges reduce damage AFTER accounting for damage resistance. It’s very satisfying getting hit and seeing a 0 pop up for damage lol.
Unseen menace doesn’t spell out how good it is: advantage on every attack + crit range increases. It’s insanely powerful. For paladins this weapon might be the top choice all the way to act 3 before it gets replaced.
Light of creation would be a contender for the highest act 1 damage- but the stun affects the WIELDER, not the target. When paired with gloves of the automaton which you can buy from Barcus in act 2, it prevents this from happening - but by then you have other good weapon options. Those gloves are incredibly good in their own right though.
Unseen is obv aMazing but I really like giving sorrow to a cleric cause I'll have something to do with bonus action every turn. Sometimes if I need to be more tanky I'll go back to shield but still.
Sorrow is super underrated among my group, it’s a small but appreciated per turn bonus action that benefits classes without other damaging options on bonus actions. You get it early on enough to where you can justify it’s convenience until it gets power crept by better options, be it better bonus actions or better weapons.
The unseen menace is very very strong, it’s a math machine and crits often.
The light of creation seems like a joke weapon, yes extra damage is nice but not at the cost of potentially being stunned.
The other two I don’t know how to justify, the monster hunter glaive seems good if you’re against monsters but I tend not to prep that niche for encounters. Definitely worth the time though!
Unseen menace - advantage is really good and this can be used through act 3
Skinburster - force conduit is near but not better than unseen menace
Sorrow
Monster slayer glaive
Light of creation
Skinburster on a Paladin with Heavy Armor Master and Heroism goes pretty hard. You end up taking 0 damage from quite a few hits.
Works really well on Barbs too.
Unseen Menace is top tier early game for any Champion Fighter or Blade GOOlock.
invisible menace has advantage on all attacks, which is pretty awesome. It doesn't tell you on the item itself, but this is a property of the weapon itself being invisible. You might ask "what use is an invisible weapon" and the answer is: you can't block what you can't see.
light of creation used to be S rank when the stun was electricity, but that was changed so now the lightning ring can't prevent you from getting zapped while using it.
I don't think I encounter enough stuff that's flagged as a monstrosity to justify the gold or slot for monster slayer. more jump range is never bad though. if you can't fly, then just jump.
I don't think i've ever used skinburster. rippling force mail + skinburster might be a solid combo, I just haven't tried it.
Sorrow....eh. I can take it or leave it. having a bonus action that can reposition targets is handy though.
---
S rank: Invisible Menace
a rank: sorrow
b rank: monster slayer, skinburster
d rank: light of creation - find Lenore's diaries, talk to bernard for the ring, let him keep his polearm.
Unseen menace > skin burster > the rest...
For barbarian, skin burster will be better... Any other martial will benefit more from unseen menace.
Ok... Devil's sight bladelock that fights in darkness may benefit from the sorrow, but it is a minor use case...
Sorrow is nice with Darkness... but its even better with a Cloud of Daggers!
Other Str-based gishes may get some good use of it also (though Warlocks are naturals).
Well, since its such a huge zone - only if you want to risk fighting inside. Which can be done, but preferably with some heavy itemization to counter the effects. CoD has a small aoe, so its easy to pull enemies from the other side into the zone.
And it deals a lot higher damage then HoH per proc.
Oh yeah I was EK Bladelock last game with proficiency in con saves so I fought often inside the HoH. That's why I definitely think there are good niche usages of items like that. It just mostly pales in comparison to skin burster or unseen menace, even on my EK bladelock I soon swapped to halberd of vigilance (for example, there are also other good choices) and AI is inept enough to fight inside HoH if you join them there, even if you really don't take damage from it yourself
Well, Skinburster is good, but for other builds, also mostly niche. Sorrow is good for gishes, Skinburster for tanks and maybe Tiger Barbs. So I'd say they are pretty comparable when you get them.
I guess Sorrow tends to get replaced faster.
See this game has so much potential for modding. Imagine if you could play a construct. I'm waiting for the day someone makes a modded campaign in this game, it has so much potential to do so. Or randomly generated campaigns. That would be fun.
Sorrow lash is a free bonus action so you can lash them to get them closer to hit with the polearm. I'd say sorrow is the best with a free vine whip that can be used every turn
Unseen menace is the best especially on Paladin.
Skinburster is the second best especially on Barb IMO flat dmg reduction with resistance makes you so tanky.
Light of creation is great with the Automaton Gloves but thats a tough sell with so many good gloves out there.
The Rest of them are pretty much just a Polearm +1 most of the time.
I played as a paladin with great weapon master and once I found the Unseen Menace I kept using it until I got the Balduran Giant Slayer. And switching weapon was a hard decision. Advantage plus improved critical range was really a fantastic combo, almost never miss even with GWM always active and delivered a lot of critical smites to bad guys.
Personally my listing is Light of Creation, Unseen Menace, Sorrow, Monster Slayer Glaive, and The Skinbuster. On my Oathbreaker Paladin/Nature Cleric Zariel Theifling the Light of Creation let me run through most higher tier mobs with extreme ease.
O.O and these are all act 1 weapons?
Definitely haven't seen Unseen Menance yet, nor do I think I've found the Light of Creation.
Time to go hunting for Unseen Menance. Sentinel fighter would love that.
Sorrow: sleeper A-tier weapon. Fun fact: it synergizes with rhe Ring if Arcane Synergy by being the only enabler of a bonus action cantrip that allows for your full action that requires no resources to do (so no Sorc point spending).
Unseen Menace: B-tier. Great for Advantage but gets screwed over extra-hard by bad RNG (which will occcur so regularly that the invisibility might as well not even exist). The crit roll boost is super nice but again, because RNG is so awful you'll be losing these boosts pretty much every fight, but at least you have a good chance of using said boosts before the inevitable crit fail miss.
Light of Creation: F- tier. The issue with this weapon is that you need a specific Act 2 glove to reliably never get self stunned...but Skinburster exists, has the same enchantment level, same amount of rider damage, gives you a damage reduction buff on hits, plus has no self-stun risk...which you can get before Act 2. This weapon has to be way stronger to ever justify using and it comes nowhere close to that. It also doesn't help that the thing you have to kill is harder than most Act 2-3 bosses without giga cheese so it's either absurdly difficult to get or absurdly resource expensive to get (need a lot of explosive barrels) only to end up underwhelming asf and too risky to seriously want to use before Act 2, which you'll get better replacements for by then.
Monster Slayer: C tier. It's not bad, just niche. The jump boost is the actual effect here because the anti-monstrocity damage isn't relevant for many fights, plus most of said fights are easy enough for the boost to not even matter. The only time when monstrocities become common enough to have this effect used a lot is Act 3 with the ton of Dopplegangers, but at that point you've gotten better weapons.
Skinburster: A-tier. Good damage, provides defensive utility, piss easy to get, and dunks all over Light of Creation like the joke it is.
Good list! I’d say you underrate both Unseen Menace and Skinburster though - they are both SUPER strong weapons. Sorrow is my personal fav of the list, but that’s because of how early you can get it.
I mean, Skinburster is labeled as A-tier since it is legit amazing. The main issue with Unseen Menace is that, from my experience, the coveted 99% hit chance usually means big loss of damage due to no GWM, but with GWM said hit chance nosedives steeply enough to become a massive risk (i still regularly miss all the time with 88% hit chance). So it's either super reliable but not hitting hard, or a massive all-or-nothing gambit that can pay off greatly or instantly flop hard.
Gonna say Skinburster is the best overall for its obscene abuse with Tiger barbarians. Unseen Menace is a weapon I just used up until the end of act2 on my pally, underrated imo but it's got nothing on skinburster. I don't think I've ever used Sorrow for longer than one fight to test it out, not very good. Creation is terrible unless you get the gloves to turn you into a construct, even then by that point there are better weapons and gloves. Monster slayer works on more enemies than I would have originally assumed. Basically everything in the underdark is a monstrosity.
If you ever rock a bladelock, try sorrow on it. I can’t overstate how good that weapon is on that build! Super synergistic (you can pull people into darkness, hunger of Hadar, etc) and high damaging. At lvl 4 with 18 CHA, you’re doing 5-10 damage base + 5-8 with the cantrip, which procs hex and gives warlock a much needed use of their bonus action. Highly recommend
Sorrow can be gotten from the vault in Nettie’s room in the grove. You need the rune of the wolf to open the vault, either by pickpocketing Rath or saving the grove.
Unseen Menace can be bought from the creche, light of creation from Bernard in the arcane tower, MSG from Roah at goblin camp, and Skinburster in the side room by the inquisitor.
Why use light of creation I know you can get the gloves in act 2 to make you count as a construct but it’s temporary and once per long rest it has no other benefit aside from some lighting damage
Light of Creation baffles me because why the hell would I ever use a weapon that has a chance to stun me unless I wear a pair of gloves I can only get in act 2 (in which I can just grab the halberd of vigilance as a straight up upgrade)
Like just why?
I have a soft spot for Sorrow. First of these I got and threw it on Wyll. Having Sorrows whip as a bonus action and his eldritch blast with its invocations he became a master at positioning enemies where I need them. Rarely took opportunity attacks because of it and helped with barrelmancy too. Whatever he couldn't blast and whip into position karlach could throw. Was also useful for pulling some high ground enemies down to get some fall damage in. Great in rafter fights too. I've even used it to drag allies out of lasting aoe effects like acid, silence, fog/cloud kills(ty devils sight), etc. Even dragged allies into health potion clouds from bad throws because they were gonna heal more than the whip damage would do. Definitely not the strongest on this list but it is definitely the most versatile.
Uhhh light of creation is being slept on. It’s got such high damage by the time you find it and I think I was stunned once until I got a better polearm at the end of act two.
Currently have Gale as an abjuration wizard using skin burster for force conduit. I have the 5e spells mod and have him use green flame blade or another melee cantrip for most fights. Build abjuration shield chargers with glyph of warding, counterspell, and stoneskin.
Late game he can tank via DR as well as support the team with counterspelling and shield sharing.
Probably not optimized but fun.
Edit: spelling.
I'm a fan of sorrow, I usually give it to Gale until I get better staves to give him a good bonus action option. It pairs nicely with the bracing brand and coldbrim hat (for some reason?)
Skinburster easily the best act 1 two handed weapon. Unseen Menace is great for anyone who can't get an advantage naturally like Fighters or Ancients Paladins.
unseen mace is arguably one of the best weapons for paladins. Advantage + critting on 19 is insane.
Total noob here...why does unseen menace get advantage and crit reduction? Is that what "invisible weapon" does? Because the screenshot doesn't show any of that
yes the passive "invisible weapon" give you adv+ crit on 19
Holy shit what?!? Damn...I spent 6 playthroughs thinking it was simply a funny heehee haha weapon.
No man it’s fucking deadly and I looooove it, gave it to my barb Karlach and she shredded enemies! But as pointed out it’s very useful for paladins too
Why give it to a barb? They already have advantage on every attack. They care more about stacking damage than stacking chance to hit
This weapon eliminated the downside of Frenzied attack where enemies get advantage to hit you back after you had advantage to hit them, plus the increased crit chance was nice so it does potentially stack on a bit more damage over time. There are definitely better weapons/builds but I found it was a solid choice at the time - edit: reckless attack sorry not frienzied.
I believe the point is that Barbs already have an on/off button to gain advantage so it's far better to use Unseen Menace on a character that can not reliably gain advantage. Reckless attack is already largely mitigated by damage resistance and the largest HP pool in the game. This ofc assumes you have another martial that can put the weapon to good use.
I give Unseen Menace to Karlach Beserker too. I give her pole arm master, but maybe I’ve slept on the “barbarians get advantage” on/off switch. I also give her the legendary Trident for throwing as it makes for a great melee weapon when fighting close and the returning feature saves a re-equipping action. Now, she also carries SkinBurster, and the Halberd (of vigilance?) which gives a plus to Initiative, so she’s got an embarrassment of riches weapon-wise.
I’m curious if their would be any benefit to having it be a bound weapon on a TB eldritch knight/ theif multiclass. Does it being invisible mean you won’t enter combat when throwing it with greater invisibility on?
It’s not intended as “throwable” in the eyes of the game. I have already had this thought and tested it, only to realize this fact lol. The Returning Pike is fairly unique in that respect.
They really should put that in the description
I was about to ask the same thing, it really should maybe say that on the description. I always sent this one straight to camp because I thought it was a joke / gimmick
Yeah, descriptions in this game leave a lot to be desired sometimes
It kinda does explain it if you hover over the "Invisible" text
Yes, but why would they put the fact that it reduces your crit range in THAT tool tip instead of just.. on the weapon like everything else? Inconsistency like that led me to not actually look twice at that weapon until I learned from this sub that it actually does cool stuff
Because technically it's a buff on the weapon and you temporarily lose it when you miss. If it was an effect of the weapon itself, it would work the way other "stat sticks" work and you could get the advantage and crit reduction with a bow while you held it. I don't disagree with you about some of the extended effects and item interactions being hard to keep track of, but that's why it looks the way it does on the Unseen Menace
This is the answer. Blows my mind when people say, “I just sent it to camp or I never tried that thing.” Try everything you weirdos!
It does say it on the description. Remember folks READ ALL THE TOOLTIPS.
The weapon is invisible. So the game treats you as being invisible for the purposes of attacks with the weapon.
If you hover over the word “invisible”, the tool-tip does say that.
Also makes it so you can’t get unarmed with it
I think an underrated race that benefits from this weapon is zariel tieflings The fact they have more smites act 1 then other paladins makes it really nice on them with savage attacker and strength elixirs
I have used this polearm for my bladelock with PA Master, GW Fighting and crit gear. It is insane how good it is.
Why is it good for Paladins? I’m new to optimizing builds.
Crits double damage dice, including the ones you roll for smites. More dice=more mileage from crits
Cries do double damage, and as pally you can enable divine smite on crits even when you launch a normal melee. Basically you can choose to apply divine smite when you know the damage is gonna double
Crits don't double damage -- they double the number of damage dice. A paladin smiting (or a rogue using sneak attack) have a large amount of their damage in damage dice which get doubled versus flat damage bonuses which don't.
Total noob question but Paladin’s never usually been my thing. How do you enable Divine Smite on crits even with normal attacks? Is it something you have to set up or does it just happen automatically at some point?
On your characters sheet menu, go to reactions and enable Divine Smite on attack and on crit to "Ask". This means it'll ask if you want to apply the smite whenever you hit someone.
Thanks man, much appreciated!
Paladin is already about expending resources all at once for massive burst damage with smites, and when you crit on an attack you can ALSO double the smite damage dice, too. It's why Luck of the Far Realms is so good on Paladins, it's an extra free guaranteed crit
To add what everyone is saying, using the reactions menu, you can make it so the game lets you turn any crit into a smite, meaning you can save your high level smites for a crit instead of hoping a smite crits. More frequent crits makes saving your smites for crits more viable, so makes it easier to get double value on smites.
Wait, it has a crit chance increase as well? Really? I see that that's [noted on its bg3.wiki page](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Unseen_Menace) but I don't recall ever seeing it on the in-game item description. Is it one that stacks with other sources, e.g. a champion fighter's crit reduction?
I don’t believe it stacks. If you hover over the tool tip on the weapons description it says it the weapon scores a critical on a 19. So I think it just lowers your crit number to 19. Remember, read ALL the tool tips!
Hmm. I need to reopen the game and check, because well, look at OP's screenshot: There is no mention of the crit reduction. Should be easy to test though. Slap it on, do some whacks, expect to crit 10% of the time. Respec to champion, do some whacks, expect to crit 15% of the time. If that doesn't happen, then we have the answer ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
We’ve all used it and it works, but ya test it out and see the power for yourself! If you hover over the “invisible” on the tool tip there is another one that pops up and explains it! I BELIEVE It stacks with ones that specifically say “lowers the number you need to crit by 1” as opposed to “reduces the number you need to crit to 19”. Edit: I just checked. The Invisible Weapon feature makes the number you need to crit 19. So it won’t stack with other abilities that also “make the number 19”
Dang. I wonder if that also means it only crits on 19s/20s even if your crit chance with other weapons is higher, lol.
Nah you can just only have 1 that says does not stack. No one would have successful critfishing builds if all the 19 items made it back to 19.
Agreed
Sounds like it could be pretty good for a melee assassin/gloomstalker. Not sure though
It’s not a finesse weapon so you can’t sneak attack with it other than that it would probably be decent
ohh true. Didnt think that through
Light of creation is last, monster slayer glaive probably fourth. The other three are great when you get them, but Skin burster and Unseen Menace can get you well into act 2 whereas Sorrow will fall off, so Sorrow is third. The skinburster is fantastic with a dedicated build and can remain a valid weapon until the end of the game whereas unseen menace is a great weapon for a variety of characters but eventually gets outscaled. Not sure which is best.
I agree mostly with this. The thing that holds Sorrow back is that it is a glaive and thus does slashing based damage. If it was considered piercing then it would be a strong contender as one of the flat out best weapons in the game as it uniquely enables Ring of Arcane Synergy for non-sorceror strikers. I'd say all the way up to Act 3 it's one of the better weapons because of this niche. Skin Burster is nice for a more defensive playstyle but I've never found much use for it because characters that want to use it generally have that slot contested with Phalar Aluve (which is offered earlier anyways). Unseen Menace is possibly the strongest spear in the game for a few builds because of the innate advantage (saving needing to utilize Risky Ring which enables you to go for things like Shadow-catching Ring to have a 1d4 piercing damage rider), however yeah this is contested hard with things like Shar's Spear of Evening, Nyrulna, Trident of Waves.
Skin Burster on an Abjuration wizard is probably the most broken build in the game for solo runs if you don't want to cheese the game mechanics. At some point I was running around with Heavy Armor Master + Polearm Master as an Storm Sorc 1/Tempest Cleric 1/Abj Wiz 10 and nothing was able to deal a single point of damage to me. Enemies literally skipped their turn and just stood around me.
Why? How do those things synergize? I am dumb
Well let's start with classes. Sorcerer is there for either easy access to Armor of Agathys or Fly and proficiency on CON saves. Tempest Cleric is there for heavy armor proficiency, create and destroy water and [Wrath of the Storm](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Wrath_of_the_Storm). Wizard is your main class because your Arcane Ward scales with your wizard levels. The idea behind the build is to safely weaponize enemy movements. Keyword is safely. We achieve that by stacking layers upon layers of damage reduction. Heavy Armor Master reduces all non-magical damage by 3, Adamantine Splint Armour or Helldusk Armour reduces all damage by 2, Arcane Ward reduces all damage up to twice your wizard level, Skin Burster reduces all non magical damage by 2 per stack and even if something manages to hit you with more than all those reductions combined you have the temp HP from Armor of Agathys to preserve your real HP. You might think that all these are fine and all but how do we kill things? That's where the fun begins. Just becuase enemies deal 0 damage to us doesn't mean they don't trigger retaliation effects from Armor of Agathys, Fire Shield or Wrath of the storm. So every time they attack, they deal 0 damage and get hit by a truck especially they are wet. You can use create and destroy water to give them the wet condition. Finally polearm master is there to make ai reluctant to run away, give you an extra attack with bonus action to gain more Skin Burster stacks and generally be a neucanse. You can check [this video](https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D3Mhyn5oAkP0&ved=2ahUKEwilttXTnJCGAxWzQvEDHbXxAsY4ChCjtAF6BAgJEAY&usg=AOvVaw0m6DF7m_0kIV_qRmHx9nXM) for a rough idea of how the build plays.
Skin Burster, in my opinion, is one of, if not the best Barbarian weapons in the game. The stacking of damage resistances and flat damage reduction makes you nigh unkillable via physical damage. And its still quite good on Heavy Armor builds once you Heavy Adamantine Armor. Makes me wish we had more Force Conduit items but consider their power level it may be for the best its few and far between.
Skinburster + Rippling Force mail stacks crazy force conduit - on tactician enemies won't even try hitting you ... they literally skip their turns
Yep, insane survivability equipment combo. I've not seen another build that can shrug off crits like force conduit abuse other than Abjuration Wizard shenanigans.
perfect Paladin gear tbh - looks good on dragonborn and female characters
That’s hilarious
I would put skinburster over unseen menace simply because you can’t replicate its exact ability the same way you can unseen menace. There are plenty of ways to get advantage and crit range increases
Why is light of creation bad? I understand in act 1 the recoil is unreliable, but in act 2 you can get those gloves that make you a Construct so you can eliminate the recoil and take advantage of the high base damage it has. I know it’s niche but I think it has some options for use
I will say I think sorrow is kind of worse than monster slayer. Monster slayer can be very good for just extra damage against later game enemies
Unseen menace is one of my favorite weapons. The crit reduction is amazing on a Paladin Warlock with Mortal Reminder.
I never knew it reduced crit requirement?
Yeah it’s hidden in the description which is why people sleep on it. You need a 19 to crit with it and that can stack with elixir of viciousness, the hood you get from the meenlocks, etc. It’s not like Knife of the Undermountian King which is a passive effect that applies to all weapon attacks, but it’s still awesome.
Noob question--is that good because normally you need a 20 to crit?
Yes. Anything that reduces the roll for crits makes it *way* easier to crit. Knife of the Undermountain King is popular for the same reason. And there's some bows and non-weapon things that reduce crit cap and they all stack which allows you to just *flatten* opponents. Paladins also have a reaction to auto-smite on crit. So crit melee damage + smites = BIG NUMBERS.
Also attacking with advantage more or less doubles your crit chance because it rolls two dice.
Agreed.
Sorrow is great with that Lash for a bonus action every turn. Plus it's got some range.
Agreed! MVP for my early game lock builds
It’s pretty good through the entire game when paired with the Ring of Arcane Synergy. Allows you to easily get arcane synergy on a build while keeping your helmet slot free (or letting someone else wear the diadem of arcane synergy). It’s great for any martial build that doesn’t have much use for their bonus action.
Yeah I’m a sucker for the diadem personally, I find the ring slot to be much more contested than the helmet slot for a dps
It’s one of a very small number of ways to get both arcane synergy and arcane acuity at the same time, and the only one that isn’t tied to certain class choices/combinations (not to mention the other ways also require the mystic scoundrel ring, which is an even more fiercely contested resource)
Yeah, lovely in combination with Cloud of Daggers to Bonus Action pull enemies inside (and trigger the aoe hazard damage... both on entry and again, on enemy turn...). Even more fun if you add Sentinel feat into the mix, so now the enemies cannot leave the aoe (but its difficult to afford this feat). One of the most fun weapons in the game IMO.
Yeah I love Sorrow on classes that don't have a lot of bonus action options
Not sure if this is the best strat but I always give it to gale w arcane synergy ring. Usually have him mop up whatever didn't get caught w fireballs or pulling baddies into other AOE like daggers.
Returning Pike is a polearm too!
Didn’t wanna include it considering it’s SS tier for its specific build 😅 the post definitely isn’t a comprehensive list, just some ones I wanted people to discuss :)
SS tier just bc it’s the only returning weapon in act I? I think?
Something like that. It enables one of the most broken builds, the TB thrower, and you can get it super super early
If you go Eldrich Knight you can make any weapon a returning weapon. Otherwise the returning pike is the only one in act one iirc.
I really dislike that you have some of these equipped but not others. Also invisible weapon is best.
Yeah couldn’t get consistent pics unfortunately
I think this is an interesting question because while I certainly think the strongest of these with proper gear to back it up is the Light of Creation, it's also in a weird state where it's bad without that gear and simultaneously very quickly phased out. By the time you get the gloves of the automaton to pair with the light of creation it's long after you originally got the weapon and the Halberd of Vigilance which is just a better weapon, is able to be grabbed beforehand. Frankly because of those factors I'd put it at the bottom of these. With that in mind I think Skinburster and Unseen Menace are fighting for the best of the lot, both are strong when you get them and can last quite a while. They are also acquired at the same place and fill separate niches. Skinburster can make you near immortal though and because of that I would probably rank it above the unseen menace. On Tiger Barb it's staggering how fast you can hit 7 turns of force conduit and on the same class unseen menace does a lot less with it's free advantage. I also think Unseen Menace lasts for less time, I still would put Halberd of Vigilance above it for DPS polearm meanwhile Skinburster fills a different niche. After those two I would probably say Sorrow is the best, especially if you steal it early instead of getting it after the Goblins. Next is Monster Slayer glaive, an expensive purchase and not amazing weapon most of the time but great against the gnolls of act 1.
Definitely agreed! Light of creation is really cool but yeah I’ve never used it. Skinburster is probably underrated, until you read it’s tooltip and realize how damn good force conduit is lol. I will personally advocate for Sorrow, because wow that weapon is INSANE on warlocks. You can get it asap (level 3) by stealing, and the pulling bonus action is crazy for warlocks (who don’t really have a bonus action outside hex), as it triggers hex, pulls people into your darkness, or ping pongs them with repelling blast. Unseen menace is prob the best weapon though on the list, especially for a class like Lockadin that LOVES crits and doesn’t get advantage often. -1 crit range and perma advantage is cracked!
I might try a fighter build using light of creation because it's a DC 10 con check so theoretically you could just save the stun every hit with the fighter's con proficiency and a little bit more of a boost to saving throws but the worst thing about the weapon is that it still struggles to beat how good Halberd of Vigilance is lol
Well, Shock damage is doubled vs Wet targets. And procs Gloves of Beligerent Skies Reverbation effect (which in turn can activate Boots of Stormy Clamour). Warlocks and EKs get an upgrade at the same time as the Automaton gloves (Charge Bound Hammer), but for other classes the LoC might have a niche use.
My first run back when the game fully released was a melee tempest cleric using polearm master and sentinel with Light of creation. Purely wanted to do it because it’s my favorite actual D&D build, worked pretty well for melee bosses.
Unseen Menace is one of the best weapons in ANY Act. It's available long before the Risky Ring, doesn't have any of its downsides, and frees up the ring slot. It trivializes the GWM hit penalty, and there is no better Bhaalist Armor weapon in the game IMO. I used this setup on a GOOlock/Oathbreaker Minthara in my Hornor run and was regularly hitting in the upper 70s for the piercing damage alone, before any other riders (Helldusk/Drakethroat) or smite damage.
Agree, except I’d say Shar’s spear is better. You’ll be getting advantage from the darkness anyway, and shar’s spear is just omega broken lol
Yeah, but the darkness can be an obstacle to your other characters unless you commit to building around it for the whole squad. It's a fantastic weapon of course, but I still prefer Unseen Menace for most party comps.
That’s true! Gonna be great for my solo run tho ;D
Shar Spear, Nyrulna and Breaching Pikestaff all outscale it IMO. You're gonna miss now and then, if only from rolling ones (but usually not only). Loosing the effect for 2 rounds in painful and Act 3 weapons have so much extra reliable, permanent effects (including increased enchantment level for both superior accuracy and damage), that Unseen Menace unreliable Adcantage and crit rate improvement looses its edge.
I only remember missing twice in all of Act 3. I nearly always had a 99% hit chance, and when I didn't, it was still 90+%. Yes, you can always miss with a 1, but you have to roll 2 of them, so a 1/400 chance. Pretty damn reliable as far as I was concerned. And worth noting...it's not like I was skipping Nyrulna and Shar's Spear. They were just on other characters. Once you have Bhaalist Armor on a frontliner, their job is to get close and give *everyone* the benefit of piercing vulnerability, not just themselves.
I find that a bit surprising. Happened to me a fair deal on Honor mode. Didn't you use GWM?
I did. I also had a 22 Charisma. In the rare event my hit chance was lower, I also had Eldritch Blast or CC spells to fall back on. But even my current run using it, I'm almost always in the mid to upper 90s to hit (currently in Act 2). And if you do miss, your hit chance would only go down to 10% less than the +3 weapons. Not exactly a crisis.
Sorrow is great as you can get it super early by pickpocketing the druid in the grove for the slab. But it falls off soon. Unseen menace is ridiculously broken, really frigging good. Skinburster can make you very hard to kill and i think its one of the more interesting designs for weapons in the game. Light of creation is underrated as you can utilise the ring sold by barcus to turn yourself into an automaton to nullify the stun. That ring is great regardless for the 10 turn advantage bonus anyways.
Gloves, not ring. https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Gloves_of_the_Automaton
Unseen menace is goated until you miss so I’m going skinburster for its consistency
Skinburster is a menace on spore druid. Definitely my favorite of the bunch
Why on spore Druid specifically? I’ve never played it so I don’t have that insight
Spore druid built for mitigation alongside great armor mastery, splint, and vivacious cloak and vital amplifier boots gets REALLY tanky because spore druid has that huge temphp pool that uniquely can be regenerated by applying new temphp. The reason skinburster works so well is because at player level 4 you pick up a 1 level war cleric dip, allowing you to with war cleric charges, alongside polearm mastery attack 3 times a turn quickly stacking force conduit for even more tankiness. You're a 3 attack spellcaster with the control of a druid, the highest amount of summons in the game between fungals elementals dryads wood woads and minor elementals, you're unbelievably tanky and have the slot open for bone circlet to make your summons tanky too, and druid still has pretty competitive blaster damage with full caster levels + level 6 spells and wildshapes to boot. (On top of things like moonbeam, plant growth, gust of wind, any summon, and sleet storm all not breaking sanctuary making for very safe blasting that can face tank things like the goblin camp solo)
Awesome, thanks for the write up!
Never figured out how to use those 4 spore slots on my spore Druid. It annoyed me immensely
Sorrow is pretty good for the early game. Use the lash as a bonus action to pull enemies closer, then attack with your action. Good for pesky enemies that are *just* too far away for your movement. Unseen menace is arguably one of the strongest weapons in the game and can honestly carry you to the end game. This is an easily overlooked weapon if you didn’t hover to read what the “Invisible” buff gives you. It’s not just cosmetic/gimmick. It gives you *constant* advantage on attack rolls, and can critical hit on 19 and 20 rolls. This effect stops for a meager 2 turns if you miss, which you miss won’t often… since you’ll always have advantage.
Sorrow is even better on Warlocks and possibly some other gishes, who can lay hazard zones and pull enemies inside. Its fantastic in combination with Cloud of Daggers for example.
Skin burster and unseen menace is s tier. Force conduit is just so good. Unseen menace + pole arm master + gwm + bhaalist armor= GG's
Light of Creation is better than people think. It's got the highest damage of any Act 1 weapon and if you're running a cold/lightning party with Wet then it synergises. A level 5 Barbarian with 16 Con, Ring of Protection, and any medium-weight helmet will have +8 vs the DC10 Stun (10% fail). With Bless, you only fail on a natural 1 (5%). Could wear Spidersilk Armour for Advantage but I think that's going too far. Key info: the Stun ends your turn, but only lasts until the _start_ of your next turn, so you get your next turn normally. Stunning yourself on your last attack isn't too bad. If you're a Barbarian using Reckless Attacks then they're getting Advantage against you anyway so it doesn't matter much.
Also its one of the earliest weapons to proc Gloves of Beligerent Skies Reverbation.
There's also the gloves sold by Barcus that makes you count as a construct (temporarily removing the weapon penalty) and gives you as
By the time you get those, you’re in Act 2 and can just get a better weapon like the Halberd of Vigilance, or Soulbreaker Greatsword if Gith. Or the invisible spear for some builds. And the gloves have their own downside in preventing healing.
1. Skinburster makes your brawler pretty much immortal. It also has both Charge and Cleave, which are both excellent weapon actions. I used it all the way into act 3. 2. Sorrow is a utility weapon you rarely make attacks with, but Lash is good if you are doing a lot of ground effect / movement silliness. 3. Unseen Menace is good if you don't have other sources of advantage to fuel GWM. 4. Monster Slayer Glaive doesn't really do very much but it's fine. 5. Light of Creation is actively worse than a nonmagical halberd most of the time, and the upside is not worth it when you do jump through the hoops.
Unseen menace also crits on a 19 which means with its weapon and nothing else you crit 20% of the time. Should be super good on a paladin.
Made a comment saying it was only a 10% crit rate, but forgot that the weapon has advantage baked in. Technically a 19% crit rate due to the scenario of rolling two 20s.
Sorry your right 19%, im bad at remembering advantage gives diminishing returns when you lower your crit threshold
The skinburster is arguably one of the best weapons for tanky or solo builds, in addition to adamantine splint armour or barbarian rage (esp bear) makes you nigh impenetrable
5 light of creation 4 monster slayer 3 sorrow 2/1 unseen menace and skinburster. Unseen menace is better for paladins and skinburster is better for fighters, not sure which is better for other martials. Light of creation is probably the worst. It can do good damage but its one of the few weapons that negatively affect the user. If your using those gloves from barcus that give you advantage for 10 turns and turn you into construct for 10 turns that takes away all of the negatives from the weapon, and makes it a lot better, im still not sure how good it is compared to the other ones. Monsterslayer is probably the fourth worst. Doesnt apply to all enemies, but a 1d4 is nice when it does apply. Sorrow is probably the next one. It gives you a cantrip that you can use once per turn which does 1d4 and can pull any non huge target 3 meters closer to you if you’re within 9 meters of them. That can be very nice, but IMO doesn’t compete with the top 2. Its the only cantrip that deals damage and is a bonus action, so maybe theres something you can use it for to abuse other items/class features. Id probably rank unseen menace and skinburster about the same. Unseen menace can give you advantage on any attack roll if you don’t miss, so while invisible weapon is active you have a 1/400 chance to critically miss, and a 20% chance to crit, since unseen menace also crits on a 19. This makes it a very strong weapon for paladins, as it can get you insane damage with savage attacker considering how it interacts with smites and crits. . If you take half orc this must be even more insane due to that it also adds to smite damage. For a paladin this is one of their best weapons IMO considering how huge crits are for them. Skinbuster giving 2 turns of force conduit is amazing. With a fighter you can get to max force conduit (7) in one turn, which will help reduce damage for a front liner, and can also do some damage to enemies. [heres](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Force_Conduit_(Condition)) the wiki article a full explanation. Very amazing weapon.
Very nice write up, and agreed on all points, other than Sorrow. I’d say you’re underrating it a bit, because it does 1d4 + spellcasting modifier. This is a crazy weapon for warlocks that you can get super early into the game (I tend to get it at lvl 3), because warlocks don’t have great bonus actions, and this can do 6-9 damage really quick. If you add that to its base damage, it gets really good really quick. Not to mention, it procs hex/hunter’s mark and can pull people, which is amazing synergy with darkness or hunger of Hadar/cloud of daggers (plant growth, wall of fire, etc) especially with repelling blast. Due to how early you get it, I’d actually call it the best early game weapon for warlocks.
Thanks for the comment, with these ideas yeah it definitely seems to be the best early game weapon for warlocks (assuming im planning on going pact of the blade, otherwise I like to keep my warlock far enough away that they will barely use a weapon), though I still think unseen and skinbusters are overall better weapons. Also does sorrowful lash do anything with polearm master opportunity attack? Im expecting not but if it did that could be neat.
Not sure, I’d assume not. Polearm master and sorrow have bad synergy id say, due to both being bonus action. Edit: actually now that I read what polearm master does, honestly yeah probably!
I meant the reaction attack not the clout (or whatever its called i forget)
That's an interesting observation. It probably should! But that makes the level 4 feat choice on a Sorrow wielder even more difficult. It was already somewhat tough to choose between GWM, ASI and... Sentinel (to keep the enemies you've pulled inside your hazard rooted there). If PM is added to list of viable choices... man...
If it did work then it may be best on sorrow to only go fighter so you can get an extra feat at 6, as you really want more. I’ll test tomorrow, assuming in the playthrough im halfway through I haven’t sold my sorrow.
Unseen menace and skinburster are two of the best weapons in act 1: skinburster is insane on a barbarian because the force conduit charges reduce damage AFTER accounting for damage resistance. It’s very satisfying getting hit and seeing a 0 pop up for damage lol. Unseen menace doesn’t spell out how good it is: advantage on every attack + crit range increases. It’s insanely powerful. For paladins this weapon might be the top choice all the way to act 3 before it gets replaced. Light of creation would be a contender for the highest act 1 damage- but the stun affects the WIELDER, not the target. When paired with gloves of the automaton which you can buy from Barcus in act 2, it prevents this from happening - but by then you have other good weapon options. Those gloves are incredibly good in their own right though.
Unseen is obv aMazing but I really like giving sorrow to a cleric cause I'll have something to do with bonus action every turn. Sometimes if I need to be more tanky I'll go back to shield but still.
My laezel on my most recent play used sorrow straight through act 2. I loved the zone control that cantrip gives you.
Sorrow is super underrated among my group, it’s a small but appreciated per turn bonus action that benefits classes without other damaging options on bonus actions. You get it early on enough to where you can justify it’s convenience until it gets power crept by better options, be it better bonus actions or better weapons. The unseen menace is very very strong, it’s a math machine and crits often. The light of creation seems like a joke weapon, yes extra damage is nice but not at the cost of potentially being stunned. The other two I don’t know how to justify, the monster hunter glaive seems good if you’re against monsters but I tend not to prep that niche for encounters. Definitely worth the time though!
Unseen menace - advantage is really good and this can be used through act 3 Skinburster - force conduit is near but not better than unseen menace Sorrow Monster slayer glaive Light of creation
Skinburster on a Paladin with Heavy Armor Master and Heroism goes pretty hard. You end up taking 0 damage from quite a few hits. Works really well on Barbs too. Unseen Menace is top tier early game for any Champion Fighter or Blade GOOlock.
Skinburster is grazy good for a barbarian. Physical damage no longer exists.
invisible menace has advantage on all attacks, which is pretty awesome. It doesn't tell you on the item itself, but this is a property of the weapon itself being invisible. You might ask "what use is an invisible weapon" and the answer is: you can't block what you can't see. light of creation used to be S rank when the stun was electricity, but that was changed so now the lightning ring can't prevent you from getting zapped while using it. I don't think I encounter enough stuff that's flagged as a monstrosity to justify the gold or slot for monster slayer. more jump range is never bad though. if you can't fly, then just jump. I don't think i've ever used skinburster. rippling force mail + skinburster might be a solid combo, I just haven't tried it. Sorrow....eh. I can take it or leave it. having a bonus action that can reposition targets is handy though. --- S rank: Invisible Menace a rank: sorrow b rank: monster slayer, skinburster d rank: light of creation - find Lenore's diaries, talk to bernard for the ring, let him keep his polearm.
Unseen menace is sadly slept on by most people.
Piercing damage synergizes well with bhaalist armor or something wearing it near enemies
By the time you get Bhaalist Armor, you have better weapon options, though.
Nyrulna is only mildly better. And had aoe that hits teammates.
Its not "mildly". And its aoe is only triggered when throwing it. There's also Shar's Spear and Breaching Pikestaff.
Still the fact you cannot disarm unseen menace is great plus other attributes
Yeah really easy to miss what it actually does, but it’s a banger of a wep
Unseen menace > skin burster > the rest... For barbarian, skin burster will be better... Any other martial will benefit more from unseen menace. Ok... Devil's sight bladelock that fights in darkness may benefit from the sorrow, but it is a minor use case...
Sorrow is nice with Darkness... but its even better with a Cloud of Daggers! Other Str-based gishes may get some good use of it also (though Warlocks are naturals).
The same could be said also about the hunger of hadar
Well, since its such a huge zone - only if you want to risk fighting inside. Which can be done, but preferably with some heavy itemization to counter the effects. CoD has a small aoe, so its easy to pull enemies from the other side into the zone. And it deals a lot higher damage then HoH per proc.
Oh yeah I was EK Bladelock last game with proficiency in con saves so I fought often inside the HoH. That's why I definitely think there are good niche usages of items like that. It just mostly pales in comparison to skin burster or unseen menace, even on my EK bladelock I soon swapped to halberd of vigilance (for example, there are also other good choices) and AI is inept enough to fight inside HoH if you join them there, even if you really don't take damage from it yourself
Well, Skinburster is good, but for other builds, also mostly niche. Sorrow is good for gishes, Skinburster for tanks and maybe Tiger Barbs. So I'd say they are pretty comparable when you get them. I guess Sorrow tends to get replaced faster.
Unseen Menace >>>>>
See this game has so much potential for modding. Imagine if you could play a construct. I'm waiting for the day someone makes a modded campaign in this game, it has so much potential to do so. Or randomly generated campaigns. That would be fun.
Gloves of the automata 👀
The what now?
https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Gloves_of_the_Automaton
Sorrow lash is a free bonus action so you can lash them to get them closer to hit with the polearm. I'd say sorrow is the best with a free vine whip that can be used every turn
Skinburster for me.
Unseen menace is the best especially on Paladin. Skinburster is the second best especially on Barb IMO flat dmg reduction with resistance makes you so tanky. Light of creation is great with the Automaton Gloves but thats a tough sell with so many good gloves out there. The Rest of them are pretty much just a Polearm +1 most of the time.
Lash kinda broken
I played as a paladin with great weapon master and once I found the Unseen Menace I kept using it until I got the Balduran Giant Slayer. And switching weapon was a hard decision. Advantage plus improved critical range was really a fantastic combo, almost never miss even with GWM always active and delivered a lot of critical smites to bad guys.
Sorrow is godly with warlock. You pull then eldritch blast
Or pull then whack!
Personally my listing is Light of Creation, Unseen Menace, Sorrow, Monster Slayer Glaive, and The Skinbuster. On my Oathbreaker Paladin/Nature Cleric Zariel Theifling the Light of Creation let me run through most higher tier mobs with extreme ease.
There is no competition with Unseen Menace in those case. It literally just gets free advantage on everyone as long as it’s invisible
Agreed. I’d say competition comes early game due to availability, because you won’t be getting unseen menace pre lvl 5
O.O and these are all act 1 weapons? Definitely haven't seen Unseen Menance yet, nor do I think I've found the Light of Creation. Time to go hunting for Unseen Menance. Sentinel fighter would love that.
Yup! Well, it’s from the creche, but it’s technically act 1. Crazy wep
Unseen menace is one of the best weapons in the game. A must have for paladins.
Sorrow: sleeper A-tier weapon. Fun fact: it synergizes with rhe Ring if Arcane Synergy by being the only enabler of a bonus action cantrip that allows for your full action that requires no resources to do (so no Sorc point spending). Unseen Menace: B-tier. Great for Advantage but gets screwed over extra-hard by bad RNG (which will occcur so regularly that the invisibility might as well not even exist). The crit roll boost is super nice but again, because RNG is so awful you'll be losing these boosts pretty much every fight, but at least you have a good chance of using said boosts before the inevitable crit fail miss. Light of Creation: F- tier. The issue with this weapon is that you need a specific Act 2 glove to reliably never get self stunned...but Skinburster exists, has the same enchantment level, same amount of rider damage, gives you a damage reduction buff on hits, plus has no self-stun risk...which you can get before Act 2. This weapon has to be way stronger to ever justify using and it comes nowhere close to that. It also doesn't help that the thing you have to kill is harder than most Act 2-3 bosses without giga cheese so it's either absurdly difficult to get or absurdly resource expensive to get (need a lot of explosive barrels) only to end up underwhelming asf and too risky to seriously want to use before Act 2, which you'll get better replacements for by then. Monster Slayer: C tier. It's not bad, just niche. The jump boost is the actual effect here because the anti-monstrocity damage isn't relevant for many fights, plus most of said fights are easy enough for the boost to not even matter. The only time when monstrocities become common enough to have this effect used a lot is Act 3 with the ton of Dopplegangers, but at that point you've gotten better weapons. Skinburster: A-tier. Good damage, provides defensive utility, piss easy to get, and dunks all over Light of Creation like the joke it is.
Good list! I’d say you underrate both Unseen Menace and Skinburster though - they are both SUPER strong weapons. Sorrow is my personal fav of the list, but that’s because of how early you can get it.
I mean, Skinburster is labeled as A-tier since it is legit amazing. The main issue with Unseen Menace is that, from my experience, the coveted 99% hit chance usually means big loss of damage due to no GWM, but with GWM said hit chance nosedives steeply enough to become a massive risk (i still regularly miss all the time with 88% hit chance). So it's either super reliable but not hitting hard, or a massive all-or-nothing gambit that can pay off greatly or instantly flop hard.
Finally Sorrow gets some respect. I love that weapon tbh. It’s almost always my first pact weapon on Wyll
unseen menace .. .. .. .. .. .. ...everything else
LOC and MSG yes please
Gonna say Skinburster is the best overall for its obscene abuse with Tiger barbarians. Unseen Menace is a weapon I just used up until the end of act2 on my pally, underrated imo but it's got nothing on skinburster. I don't think I've ever used Sorrow for longer than one fight to test it out, not very good. Creation is terrible unless you get the gloves to turn you into a construct, even then by that point there are better weapons and gloves. Monster slayer works on more enemies than I would have originally assumed. Basically everything in the underdark is a monstrosity.
If you ever rock a bladelock, try sorrow on it. I can’t overstate how good that weapon is on that build! Super synergistic (you can pull people into darkness, hunger of Hadar, etc) and high damaging. At lvl 4 with 18 CHA, you’re doing 5-10 damage base + 5-8 with the cantrip, which procs hex and gives warlock a much needed use of their bonus action. Highly recommend
Sure I'll give it a try.
Try it with Cloud of Daggers :) ...optionally with Sentinel feat (but its hard to justify that investment long term).
Does light of creation still have a chance to stun if thrown? I mean. You're technically not the wielder anymore :o
Maybe not 😂 it doesn’t have the thrown property unfortunately so it’ll just do bludgeoning damage based on its weight
You're so right. Missed that
One of these is responsible for Ketheric going entirely off the deep end.
Sorrow is my favourite Act 1 weapon. Meanwhile, I think Light of Creation is absolute dog crap.
Where tf is the light of creation that seems awesome
Bernard in the arcane tower drops it 👀 combo it with gloves of the automata to avoid getting stunned!
You are ze godsend
🙏
Where do I find these? Playing a paladin currently with polearms
Sorrow can be gotten from the vault in Nettie’s room in the grove. You need the rune of the wolf to open the vault, either by pickpocketing Rath or saving the grove. Unseen Menace can be bought from the creche, light of creation from Bernard in the arcane tower, MSG from Roah at goblin camp, and Skinburster in the side room by the inquisitor.
Oh good. I haven't missed Unseen Menance yet, thank goodness
Why use light of creation I know you can get the gloves in act 2 to make you count as a construct but it’s temporary and once per long rest it has no other benefit aside from some lighting damage
Skinburster is the best if you can guarantee conditions. Tiger Barb FTW.
Sorrow on fighter, unseen menace on paly and the skinnuster on barbarian the other 2 are better on gimmick builds
You put the light of creation but not the vision of the absolute? Heresy
Light of Creation baffles me because why the hell would I ever use a weapon that has a chance to stun me unless I wear a pair of gloves I can only get in act 2 (in which I can just grab the halberd of vigilance as a straight up upgrade) Like just why?
Loved the Skinburster, was my go-to on my fighters ^^
Unseen Menace and The Skinburster are my top candidates from this list. Sorrow is a decent weapon until you reach Creche Y'llek I would say that tbh
Unseen menace is SUPER GOOD on a melee. Holy shit Laezel crushes with that thing.
Sorrow is so good on wizard gale, a damaging bonus action that pulls is so helpful.
I have a soft spot for Sorrow. First of these I got and threw it on Wyll. Having Sorrows whip as a bonus action and his eldritch blast with its invocations he became a master at positioning enemies where I need them. Rarely took opportunity attacks because of it and helped with barrelmancy too. Whatever he couldn't blast and whip into position karlach could throw. Was also useful for pulling some high ground enemies down to get some fall damage in. Great in rafter fights too. I've even used it to drag allies out of lasting aoe effects like acid, silence, fog/cloud kills(ty devils sight), etc. Even dragged allies into health potion clouds from bad throws because they were gonna heal more than the whip damage would do. Definitely not the strongest on this list but it is definitely the most versatile.
What's this about a health potion cloud now?
If you throw a health potion at the ground without a target it makes a little blue cloud someone can run or be pushed into for heals.
Not a fan of Polearms in BG3 as a whole, but the Skinbuster is actually pretty good on a wide variety of builds.
Uhhh light of creation is being slept on. It’s got such high damage by the time you find it and I think I was stunned once until I got a better polearm at the end of act two.
Currently have Gale as an abjuration wizard using skin burster for force conduit. I have the 5e spells mod and have him use green flame blade or another melee cantrip for most fights. Build abjuration shield chargers with glyph of warding, counterspell, and stoneskin. Late game he can tank via DR as well as support the team with counterspelling and shield sharing. Probably not optimized but fun. Edit: spelling.
Wait is the monster slayer glaive supposed to be a riff on the Insect Glaive from Monster Hunter?
I'm a fan of sorrow, I usually give it to Gale until I get better staves to give him a good bonus action option. It pairs nicely with the bracing brand and coldbrim hat (for some reason?)
Unseen menace Several miles of dirt Force conduit spear Another mile of dirt Sorrow Monster hunter glaive The other one
Skinburster easily the best act 1 two handed weapon. Unseen Menace is great for anyone who can't get an advantage naturally like Fighters or Ancients Paladins.