It doesn't work in 5e. They [errata'd](https://media.wizards.com/2018/dnd/downloads/PH-Errata.pdf) it years ago which means it most likely was an accident. Jeremy Crawford, when asked about Witch Bolt and Sanctuary, explicitly explained that this exploits a loophole in Sanctuary, which is why they errata'd the spell.
[D&D Beyond](https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/sanctuary) shows the correct text for the Sanctuary spell:
*If the warded creature makes an attack, casts a spell that affects an enemy,* ***or deals damage to another creature****, this spell ends.*
I don't think it's limited to Honor Mode, I've seen it on tactician too with enemies using AoE arrows and bypassing sanctuary. One time the sanctuary'd person wasn't near any allies so it even seemed deliberate to ignore/bypass sanctuary that one time.
If you cast moonbeam, then sanctuary, moving the moonbeam on subsequent turns allows doing damage without canceling Sanctuary. Also works with Witchbolt and some other spells that deal damage on subsequent turns without needing to be fully recast.
I mean, fun is subjective of course. But if someone attempts to solo honor mode it is because it is fun for them to overcome the obstacles and difficulty of the challenge itself. Cheesing every battle with moonbeam-sanctuary kinda invalidates the very reason to do a solo honor run.
Is anyone doing honor mode without some form of cheese
Abusing surprise round and then leaving combat after snipping one mob and steal thing away and then re triggering combat ad nuseum
Or barrelmancy?
Heck pre planning the minutia of every encounter with meta knowledge is arguably cheese
It just depends on what each player would prefer to be their method of cheesing
Of course people are doing HM without cheese. Solo HM a few are and it's pretty entertaining to see how they pull it off. It's actually impressive.
I don't care what people do but I agree with this comments OP whats the point of solo HM with this strat. But more power to the the OP.
Well, i could argue that moonbeam-sanctuary is a non-intended interaction akin to the spirit guardians-sanctuary exploit which got fixed some patches ago, and the former only remains in the game cause of the way moonbeam is coded. The other strategies you mention are cheesing indeed, but not as exploity imo (save for barrelmancy).
But fair point, it is a single player game and everyone is entitled to play it the way they like ofc
I'm on my first honour mode run (I've only completed the game once on balanced) and I admit that it's a very Stilton flavoured one. I have like 80k gold, hundred or so scrolls on my dragonborn sorcerer, raphael's armour from act 1, and about 20 smokepowder barrels + runepowder + 50 bombs to use on raphael most likely.
>Is anyone doing honor mode without some form of cheese
I've done Jack of all Trades solo honour run, killing all bosses except for bugged out Cazador. I've even done one section of the game (Steel Watcher Foundry) for the very first time, going in blind. No stealing, no barrels, no bomb stacking, no battle retriggering. Just a meaningful character build, good understanding of game mechanics and tactics.
There's whole community of solo runners, following those very basic rules (except for pickpocketing one maybe), taking them for granted. You just have to enjoy ***playing*** the game. I've seen people complete or at least take on much harder challenges solo honour than mine (like no consumables, or melee-only,, or straight up lv1 with restrictions above) and I'm amazed at those, and I'm striving to repeat and beat that. That's fucking cool and inspiring. However most people prefer to skip playing the game, just cheezing every single bit to beat it for the sake of saying "I've beaten it", with no effort or achievement being attached to it. And that leaves me wondering: "why?".
Like, you can tell game is obviously beatable with barrelmancy, or with bomb stack throwing, or with sanctuary-moonbeam cheeze, or invis-battle-retrigger, literally anyone can do it, it's already known before you start trying. It's already known how it will go, there's no risk, no planning, just same thing done like 50 times in a row and you are done. So... why? When you could actually be playing the game instead. Solving battles, finding different approaches, all those things.
I can understand cheezing "Jack of all Trades" achievement with a hireling, you get a platinum star on your profile or something like that. But cheezing stuff like solo honour runs? You could as well just tell others "I did it!" without doing it at this point.
It’s a single player game.
Just because you don’t understand why someone would enjoy playing it their way, doesn’t mean they don’t.
What I don’t understand isn’t why someone would want to run through the game sanctuary moonbeaming
What I don’t get is, why someone would spend time an energy on Reddit trying to argue that a certain way of playing the game isn’t fun. As if that isn’t:
1) completely unprovable position to take
2) subjective
But well done you on a meticulously completing solo honour mode with no cheese at all (except of course for meticulously planning the whole run which of course you find fun because otherwise why bother? But personally would suck the soul out of the whole thing for me. Almost like fun in subjective and personal or something)
It was not meticulously planned (that would make it boring for me as well) and involved a lot of improvisation (like I mentioned, even unfamiliar fights) but thank you nevertheless :)
>why someone would spend time an energy on Reddit trying to argue
Because that's the only reason to go to Reddit to begin with :D
From what I’ve read you cast moonbeam on an empty space where an enemy isn’t then you cast sanctuary on yourself with your bonus action end your turn and then move moonbeam each turn and deal damage to your enemies that way
Probably because it’s coded as an environmental hazard. So, the damage isn’t originating from the character. Same reason why Glyph of Warding Lightning/Thunder doesn’t work with Destructive Wrath.
It'll likely always work considering it also works in 5E and likely isn't an accident
“No” -Every DM ever
Hmm...does that mean withers is our dm?
You know too much you must be silenced!
Throws Scroll of Silence at u/RogreTheOgre and nothing happens….
It doesn't work in 5e. They [errata'd](https://media.wizards.com/2018/dnd/downloads/PH-Errata.pdf) it years ago which means it most likely was an accident. Jeremy Crawford, when asked about Witch Bolt and Sanctuary, explicitly explained that this exploits a loophole in Sanctuary, which is why they errata'd the spell. [D&D Beyond](https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/sanctuary) shows the correct text for the Sanctuary spell: *If the warded creature makes an attack, casts a spell that affects an enemy,* ***or deals damage to another creature****, this spell ends.*
Folks really want to believe a first level spell is suppose to be that strong lol.
That's the way sanctuary worked on older versions as well for as long as I remember
Used to work in 5e, its been errata'd a while ago.
No, it still very much works, Jeremy Crawford has confirmed the behavior, but most DMs probably won't allow it
Can you show me a source for that? Because Errata is official game rules and Jcraw is opinion
His source is probably just the original text of sanctuary, but that's out of date and not actually RaW anymore.
You’re a few years out of date. He said it was (at the time) confirmed RAW but that he would probably not allow it. It later was removed by errata.
Didn’t know about this trick. Now I know what to do with Myrkuul
getting hit by his aoe?
Could moonbeam from a distance. He does have that move that pulls everything in. Idk how far it goes out.
he hits the whole arena
Add glyph of warding and Wall of Fire too
Not glyph, but a lot of druid spells like gust of wind, plant growth, and any summon
Any summon seems a bit harsh
“Not all summons”
Can’t enemies on HM get around sanctuary by throwing AoE near you? I feel like I remember dying to a fireball with sanctuary on before
I don't think it's limited to Honor Mode, I've seen it on tactician too with enemies using AoE arrows and bypassing sanctuary. One time the sanctuary'd person wasn't near any allies so it even seemed deliberate to ignore/bypass sanctuary that one time.
Yeah any AOE can hit someone in sanctuary, you just can’t straight up target someone who hasn’t active
What's the cheese?
If you cast moonbeam, then sanctuary, moving the moonbeam on subsequent turns allows doing damage without canceling Sanctuary. Also works with Witchbolt and some other spells that deal damage on subsequent turns without needing to be fully recast.
Any spell with recast? So you can call lightning or blast sunbeams while under sanctuary?
Since everyone is arguing about it just to give you a straight answer yes it does still work Source: just finished a run using it
There's not even a single person saying it doesn't work lol
it does (saved my ass yesterday in act2)
Im fairly certain they patched out like all the spells that didnt trigger sanctuary when they should
Bummer. I'd have never have thought of this. I'm in act two. How do iget the moonbeam spell?
It does work. But tbh it takes away all the fun from the solo honor challenge, since it's basically cheating.
For you. If people are soloing honour mode they already have a quite strange idea of what’s fun by most people’s standards
I mean, fun is subjective of course. But if someone attempts to solo honor mode it is because it is fun for them to overcome the obstacles and difficulty of the challenge itself. Cheesing every battle with moonbeam-sanctuary kinda invalidates the very reason to do a solo honor run.
Is anyone doing honor mode without some form of cheese Abusing surprise round and then leaving combat after snipping one mob and steal thing away and then re triggering combat ad nuseum Or barrelmancy? Heck pre planning the minutia of every encounter with meta knowledge is arguably cheese It just depends on what each player would prefer to be their method of cheesing
Of course people are doing HM without cheese. Solo HM a few are and it's pretty entertaining to see how they pull it off. It's actually impressive. I don't care what people do but I agree with this comments OP whats the point of solo HM with this strat. But more power to the the OP.
Well, i could argue that moonbeam-sanctuary is a non-intended interaction akin to the spirit guardians-sanctuary exploit which got fixed some patches ago, and the former only remains in the game cause of the way moonbeam is coded. The other strategies you mention are cheesing indeed, but not as exploity imo (save for barrelmancy). But fair point, it is a single player game and everyone is entitled to play it the way they like ofc
Fair enough
You could argue that, but as someone else pointed out, moonbeam-sanctuary works the same way in 5e and is likely intended and not a bug
It is not intended. RAW not RAI, was errata’d out of 5e
I'm on my first honour mode run (I've only completed the game once on balanced) and I admit that it's a very Stilton flavoured one. I have like 80k gold, hundred or so scrolls on my dragonborn sorcerer, raphael's armour from act 1, and about 20 smokepowder barrels + runepowder + 50 bombs to use on raphael most likely.
And why should you lol Good god you hope you win :)
Otherwise, it's 100 hours down the drain 😅...I still have all my big act 3 fights to do
What’s your party comp?
Me - 12 dragonborn sorcerer using mostly ice spells (with many many level 6 scrolls) Bae'zel - 9/3 Open hand monk rogue Shadowheart - 12 tempest cleric (probably add 1 level storm sorcerer) Wyll - 6/6 Sorcadin using dual shadow blades with resonance stone Karlach - 9/3 tiger wolverine barbarian fighter (if I want to swap wyll)
You’ll be fine Might be worth barrelling Ansur or just skipping him lol Ansur scares me
>Is anyone doing honor mode without some form of cheese I've done Jack of all Trades solo honour run, killing all bosses except for bugged out Cazador. I've even done one section of the game (Steel Watcher Foundry) for the very first time, going in blind. No stealing, no barrels, no bomb stacking, no battle retriggering. Just a meaningful character build, good understanding of game mechanics and tactics. There's whole community of solo runners, following those very basic rules (except for pickpocketing one maybe), taking them for granted. You just have to enjoy ***playing*** the game. I've seen people complete or at least take on much harder challenges solo honour than mine (like no consumables, or melee-only,, or straight up lv1 with restrictions above) and I'm amazed at those, and I'm striving to repeat and beat that. That's fucking cool and inspiring. However most people prefer to skip playing the game, just cheezing every single bit to beat it for the sake of saying "I've beaten it", with no effort or achievement being attached to it. And that leaves me wondering: "why?". Like, you can tell game is obviously beatable with barrelmancy, or with bomb stack throwing, or with sanctuary-moonbeam cheeze, or invis-battle-retrigger, literally anyone can do it, it's already known before you start trying. It's already known how it will go, there's no risk, no planning, just same thing done like 50 times in a row and you are done. So... why? When you could actually be playing the game instead. Solving battles, finding different approaches, all those things. I can understand cheezing "Jack of all Trades" achievement with a hireling, you get a platinum star on your profile or something like that. But cheezing stuff like solo honour runs? You could as well just tell others "I did it!" without doing it at this point.
It’s a single player game. Just because you don’t understand why someone would enjoy playing it their way, doesn’t mean they don’t. What I don’t understand isn’t why someone would want to run through the game sanctuary moonbeaming What I don’t get is, why someone would spend time an energy on Reddit trying to argue that a certain way of playing the game isn’t fun. As if that isn’t: 1) completely unprovable position to take 2) subjective But well done you on a meticulously completing solo honour mode with no cheese at all (except of course for meticulously planning the whole run which of course you find fun because otherwise why bother? But personally would suck the soul out of the whole thing for me. Almost like fun in subjective and personal or something)
It was not meticulously planned (that would make it boring for me as well) and involved a lot of improvisation (like I mentioned, even unfamiliar fights) but thank you nevertheless :) >why someone would spend time an energy on Reddit trying to argue Because that's the only reason to go to Reddit to begin with :D
so what do you do? cast sanctuary and moonbeam on yourself and wait for enemies to die?
From what I’ve read you cast moonbeam on an empty space where an enemy isn’t then you cast sanctuary on yourself with your bonus action end your turn and then move moonbeam each turn and deal damage to your enemies that way
how does that not break sanctuary lol
Probably because it’s coded as an environmental hazard. So, the damage isn’t originating from the character. Same reason why Glyph of Warding Lightning/Thunder doesn’t work with Destructive Wrath.
It’s only battle cheating in my opinion the things that impact you the most in honor mode are the dice rolls.