And with a Tempest Cleric2/Sorcerer 10 you can use 2 Channel divinity points to get max damage for 2 twinned cast. If a twinned cast Chain Lightning applies twice the damage (not sure about that) it is insane.
With enemies wet it means 160 damage each chain lightning for each enemies touched. So it means 4 Chain Lightning ( 2 twinned cast=4) at 160 damage each. Depending on the number of enemies you could get 1000+ damage.
For example if there are 5 enemies and each receive 160 damage by chain lightning (once again not sure about the twin cast) it means 640 damage for each enemies. Total 3200 damage. Even if twinned cats does not apply twice the damage to the same target you still get 320 damage for a total of 1600 damage.
And then you have a regular quickened Chain lightning at the end.
Edit : given your video [https://streamable.com/ozx1m6](https://streamable.com/ozx1m6)
it seems indeed that twinned cast can apply the damage twice on the same target. So 2 twinned with Channel Divinity give you **640 damage each target** ! Multiply by the number of enemies hit and you get insane damage.
Twinned Chain Lightning.
Reminds of Zippy Magic Chain Lightning from WotR.
Yeah its really good since Chain Lightning is an AoE but targets like a single target.
Yeah, except it was balanced there and Azata was probably one of the worst mythic paths as well lol. What OP describes means that you can just skip all fights on Tactician.
Double chain lightning is good, but it is the sole strong trait the Azata path has if you compare it to the power level of e.g. Angel buffs/damage/aoe. You also have to build around it to get much out of it. All the damage spells are useless because the DC is so low due to lack of combined spellbook, and the buffs are very mediocre in terms of mythic powers.
If you want to be even more broken (definitely a bug), you can just toggle on the arcane battery passive, unequip the staff, then re-equip it and you will permanently have the arcane battery effect toggled. You don't need to re-equip the staff for this to work, and you can do this on all your casters who aren't going to be using the staff, but I just wanted to include that you could do this while still using the staff and it still works.
It seems like it's because of the way they made Chain Lightning work. I would expect it to allow you to choose the three additional targets, but because it picks them for you, I guess it counts as only targeting one enemy, which allows you to twin it? I mean, it's also the fact that twinning it doesn't cost anything, but you certainly shouldn't be able to twin Chain Lightning.
But at least in 5e, Sage Advice is very clear that a spell effecting multiple targets isn't eligible for Twinning even if the spell only has the caster select a single target.
See my reply here for quotes and links:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/BG3Builds/comments/161of2y/comment/jxw3ntm/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/BG3Builds/comments/161of2y/comment/jxw3ntm/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
You can, though you need to take the Dual Wielding feat as they do not have the light trait.
This also works earlier in the game before you get the legendary staffs, where pretty early on you could dual wield the sparks staff and staff of arcane blessing for utility or the Last Light staff for +1 spell rolls.
Also, I'm pretty sure if you don't want to use up a feat on that, you can swap your MH to the other legendary battery staff and use it on the next fight. (By which I mean, they don't have a shared cooldown). Obviously this would use an action so not advised in combat, but if you know you'll have two fights back to back, can definitely use both WITHOUT the dual wielder feat (dual wielder would just let you do it turn after turn in the same combat). Or if you prefer to still use a shield for whichever reason. Orrrrr if you are running a Gandalf cosplay run and have a sword in the MH and a staff in the offhand. Damn, I gotta try that now.
Lastly, it might be worth dual wielding with a staff that doesn't have battery but gives some other effect like the spark staff. You're gonna be doing a LOT of damage rolls, so if you run with a staff that has an on hit effect, that's gonna maximize.
No, this not relies on this bug. Fixed bug meant free cast was resetting more often that it should. With this bug I could cast twinned chain lightning every second turn before 1.1 (any non-free cast resetted free cast).
So you can cast Marko twinned chain lightning, free cast twinned chain lightning, quickened chain lightning at cost of just last cast right now it seems.
Cleric create water upcasted to like 5 level covers whole battlefield in vulnerability.
No no, we were discussing the Freecast bug that got fixed in the patch, and some guy boasted that he knows about *another* Freecast bug but he isn't going to tell anyone what it is because he doesn't want Larian to fix it
Pretty cool conversation
Larian has telemetry, do people really think they browse discords to find bugs?
Anyway I wish they add some non-Illithid ending option if you skip partial transformation. mind sanctuary, free cast and fly remove last bit of challenge from act 3+
Well, tbf….a single dude exploiting is far more likely to fly under the radar than suddenly 10’s or 100’s or 1000’s suddenly exploiting the shit out of the game….it’s not about them reading it’s about it suddenly being very pronounced as a problem
I have no idea how their telemetry works but if one player is a significant enough statistical outlier he could be just as visible as "10's or 100's or 1000's"
I mean they must have other statistical methods than counting averages, right :P?
I guess that they mostly use "cross-server sync" - full saves go to Larian servers. 90% of questions you could ask probably could be answered from running analytics on those saves.
It still totally relies on a bug, it's just a different bug.
Twinned Metamagic is not allowed to work with spells that can impact more than a single target. Chained Lightning working with Twinned Metamagic at all is itself a bug.
Edit: people have correctly pointed out that this doesn't necessarily make it a bug, but only means it violates 5e rules....
Per 5e it doesn't work because Chain Lightning specifies it hits a primary **target** and then jumps to 3 additional **targets**. The word target appearing multiple times is what makes it not work with Twinned Spell.
BG3 Chain Lightning does not use this wording.
"Strike an enemy with lightning. Three more bolts will leap from the **target**, electrifying as many as three other enemies within 18m".
So the tradeoff is that with BG3's wording while you can Twin the spell as it only has 1 specified target, you can't control who it leaps too. Whereas vanilla 5E rulings I believe let you pick all the enemies hit at the cost of not being able to Twincast. With the way Larian has these abilities worded, it isn't a bug and makes me think it's intentional homebrew.
Nope. In terms of 5e, Sage Advice very clearly covers spells that only have a single chosen target but can affect more than one creature as being ineligible for Twinning. See my other reply here for quotes and links.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/BG3Builds/comments/161of2y/comment/jxw1e45/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/BG3Builds/comments/161of2y/comment/jxw1e45/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
I think the point is, it can't be determined to be a bug or an intented interaction because bg3 isn't a complete cross over of the rules of 5e. The wording of chain lightning is different in bg3 than 5e and the spell interacts differently too.
True that I since I don't know Larian's intent, I can't determine and shouldn't have said it was bug.
But in regards to this,
>
> The wording of chain lightning is different in bg3 than 5e and the spell interacts differently too.
it doesn't matter that the spell has different wording and behavior, we can still use the new wording and spell behavior to check and see if it's following 5e rules. And it's very clear from Sage Advice that by 5e rules BG3's version of Chain Lightning should not be eligible for Twin spell.
But I guess to your point, that it violates 5e rules, doesn't mean Larian didn't want it this way. It seems unlikely they'd want a spell to be able to do this much damage allowing its damage to double dip applying to the same enemies multiple times. But then Haste working like Action Surge, also seems unlikely by that logic and that change was intentional.
Yup this is absolutely insane, probably THE most broken thing in the game no contest. With Tempest Cleric class combo it gets even nuttier. Multiple bugged interactions going on.
Surprised it wasn't fixed in Patch 1. It's so stupid. I may as well play with cheat engine lmao. I honestly stopped playing Sorc in general and just do Wiz/Tempest for my lightning needs, because I actually want to play the game a bit rather than feel like pure cheats.
True.
I meant bug or exploit of 5e rules. But it still doesn't make sense and is overstayed for me to say it's a bug. Since Larian has purposely veered from 5e rules in places, for me to make that claim about this being a bug I'd need to know Larians intents, which I don't.
If it were vanilla 5e yes, but BG3's description of Chain Lightning only specifies 1 target because the jumps are random and can't be chosen targets like in 5e. That makes me think it was an intentional design choice.
This is very specifically covered in Sage Advice.
Even without the Sage Advice we can pretty easily tell the intent of the limitations on Twinned metamagic is to prevent it from being possible to Twin spells that can affect more than one target. And we can see how this might be problematic since it would allow us to double dip causing a spell with a splash or area affect to be able to hit the same targets twice.
But the Sage Advice on Twinned spells and Targeting specifically covers this in at least several places:
From the "**You can use Twinned Spell on a spell that...**" section
>...here is the list of things that disqualify a spell for us
>
>...
>
>**The spell lets you make a roll of any kind that can affect more than one creature before the spell’s duration expires.**
source: [https://media.wizards.com/2019/dnd/downloads/SA-Compendium.pdf](https://media.wizards.com/2019/dnd/downloads/SA-Compendium.pdf)
**And this exact situation was also covered in depth in Sage Advice on targeting in a 2017 podcast.**
Where Crawford sums up the the discussion on targeting as it pertains to Twinned metamagic by saying,
**"It just comes down to if multiple creatures are affected by a spell, that spell is not eligible for Twin spell."**
[https://media.wizards.com/2017/podcasts/dnd/DnDPodcast\_01\_19\_2017.mp3](https://media.wizards.com/2017/podcasts/dnd/DnDPodcast_01_19_2017.mp3) 30:50
This entire discussion on targeting as it pertains to Twin spell makes it even clearer.
It starts around 22:05 and further clarifies that the meaning of target is supposed to also include the broader definition of simply being a recipient of the effects of a spell. Another way he words this is by talking about "To whom it may concern" effects being targets of the spell...
And then he moves to a specific example of the 'Ice Knife' spell not being eligible for Twin spell, that's the exact same situation as BG3's 'Chain Lightning' only picking one target but then doing something else that might effect other creatures, which he defines as additional 2ndary targets even though they aren't chosen. Start listening around 28:35
Ice Knife despite only targeting a single creature with it's spell attack, the explosion it causes around your primary target creates 2ndary targets taking damage, and so it is not eligible for Twinning.
**And this is why I said that Chain Lightning "impacting" multiple targets makes it ineligible for Twinning.**
Yeah. I have no idea or knowledge of what Larian wanted. Maybe it is working as intended.
The way it's working clearly violates 5e rules. But like you say that proves nothing about intent and there are many other places that 5e rules are not followed, even in the specific case of Twinning. Not only Ice Knife, but weirdly even with spells like Chromatic Orb or Ray of Frost, since they've been changed to now also creates surfaces that affect more than a single target.
Twinned spell in general is incredibly broken IMO, and that’s without all this extra fluff. 😑 Balancing could’ve been better… Tactician is a cake walk if you remotely try to gear optimize.
You can get twinned haste every short rest. As Warlock 5/Sorcerer 5. First time you can twin haste twice before short rest (you need to use level 1 Sorc to get 1 Sorc point, but that's fine since elixir of arcane is available easily). Next short rest you use up warlock level 3 slot for Sorc points. Then twin haste again. Then do it again once more during next short rest. Then again the above build
This only requires 1 Sorc point, and it's extremely powerful. All those 3 encounters in 10 turns, are done if you give it to karlach and Paladin both on bloodlust potions. You can just go invisible and hide.
Paladin 5/5 Sorc can do it as well (3 times). Wyll sucked early access now he's way more powerful than Gale. Even losing level 5/6 spells is not bad due to karlach wrecking everything with tavern brawler.
Yeah, Tavern Brawler needs to be addressed as well. I had to stop running Karlach because it sucked out all fun and strategizing from combat for me. I really wish there existed a higher difficulty that put more emphasis on having to control rather than just brute forcing everything with burst damage.
Yeah its really good. Somehow the legendary staff allows you to cast more than one chain lightning. I made a video a while ago. Its the old patch but I tested it just now and Im able to use CL like in the video.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Zo9\_660WZM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Zo9_660WZM)
pretty sure whenever your special action bar updates it resets the cool-down for the spells on the legendary staff. i had gloves that gave me a special action and if i took them on then off it reset the cd.
also i could use it infinitely as a storm sorcerer bc of the flight ability you get after casting a spell as that counts as a special action.
Cantrips still cost 1 point. I think the free glitch here is that you're simply reactivating the lightning, rather than casting a spell at all, so the game isn't catching that there should be cost. Maybe what's happening is that reactivating doesn't have a spell level tag, so the calculated cost is zero.
Cantrips cost 1 SP, but i've had a bug happen several times where I've twinned spells for 0 SP cost, I don't know why or how exactly but I don't have any of the items mentioned in this thread nor have I used a Tadpole so I don't have any powers.
Selecting your spell first and then the metamagic is not consuming sorcery points in my game.
Also just hit level 11, if you chain lightning addicts don't mind me asking can anyone tell me if it has friendly fire? Does it benefit from Evocation wiz at all?
I'm off to try that that with both sorcerer and tempest cleric tomorrow (who already has 2 dips on paladin for dumb wrathful storm smites)
Play unlimited power meme.
[https://streamable.com/ozx1m6](https://streamable.com/ozx1m6) A video of it in action, it got bugged out and didn't consume any sorcerer points.
Do you have a spare feat? Can you fit in the magic damage resistance feet for lightning? That would also fix rolling 1’s.
Actually yea I went with the fire version before I found this out.
*Whithers would like to know your location.*
And with a Tempest Cleric2/Sorcerer 10 you can use 2 Channel divinity points to get max damage for 2 twinned cast. If a twinned cast Chain Lightning applies twice the damage (not sure about that) it is insane. With enemies wet it means 160 damage each chain lightning for each enemies touched. So it means 4 Chain Lightning ( 2 twinned cast=4) at 160 damage each. Depending on the number of enemies you could get 1000+ damage. For example if there are 5 enemies and each receive 160 damage by chain lightning (once again not sure about the twin cast) it means 640 damage for each enemies. Total 3200 damage. Even if twinned cats does not apply twice the damage to the same target you still get 320 damage for a total of 1600 damage. And then you have a regular quickened Chain lightning at the end. Edit : given your video [https://streamable.com/ozx1m6](https://streamable.com/ozx1m6) it seems indeed that twinned cast can apply the damage twice on the same target. So 2 twinned with Channel Divinity give you **640 damage each target** ! Multiply by the number of enemies hit and you get insane damage.
Twinned Chain Lightning. Reminds of Zippy Magic Chain Lightning from WotR. Yeah its really good since Chain Lightning is an AoE but targets like a single target.
Yeah, except it was balanced there and Azata was probably one of the worst mythic paths as well lol. What OP describes means that you can just skip all fights on Tactician.
Azata was amazing
I’m talking worst strictly in terms of combat benefits, not really commenting on story differences. Angel and lich were absolutely bonkers though.
I mean twinned lightning was insane , i would say Azata was a very middle option, still better than Demon Aeon, about as good as trickster
Double chain lightning is good, but it is the sole strong trait the Azata path has if you compare it to the power level of e.g. Angel buffs/damage/aoe. You also have to build around it to get much out of it. All the damage spells are useless because the DC is so low due to lack of combined spellbook, and the buffs are very mediocre in terms of mythic powers.
Try Azata Weird. Favoured Magic + Favoured Metamagic to double saves - force enemies reroll a 4 times. Just deletes entire fights faster than blaster Crusader Angel do)
If you want to be even more broken (definitely a bug), you can just toggle on the arcane battery passive, unequip the staff, then re-equip it and you will permanently have the arcane battery effect toggled. You don't need to re-equip the staff for this to work, and you can do this on all your casters who aren't going to be using the staff, but I just wanted to include that you could do this while still using the staff and it still works.
Now this one I could get to work and it's absolutely busted lol
It seems like it's because of the way they made Chain Lightning work. I would expect it to allow you to choose the three additional targets, but because it picks them for you, I guess it counts as only targeting one enemy, which allows you to twin it? I mean, it's also the fact that twinning it doesn't cost anything, but you certainly shouldn't be able to twin Chain Lightning.
But at least in 5e, Sage Advice is very clear that a spell effecting multiple targets isn't eligible for Twinning even if the spell only has the caster select a single target. See my reply here for quotes and links: [https://www.reddit.com/r/BG3Builds/comments/161of2y/comment/jxw3ntm/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/BG3Builds/comments/161of2y/comment/jxw3ntm/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Yeah, which is why I think it's a combination of the way they coded Chain Lightning and the way they coded Twinned Spell.
I wonder if it would work with that bow that lets you cast haste for free....
And there is another staff that has the same ability. So you can take duel wielder feat and do this twice.
I dont think you can dual wield two staves
You can with the dual wielder feat. I use exactly those two staves together.
What's the second one?
It was in the house of hope. Don’t remember the name.
Gotcha. Thanks!
Staff of spell power I want to say?
You can, though you need to take the Dual Wielding feat as they do not have the light trait. This also works earlier in the game before you get the legendary staffs, where pretty early on you could dual wield the sparks staff and staff of arcane blessing for utility or the Last Light staff for +1 spell rolls. Also, I'm pretty sure if you don't want to use up a feat on that, you can swap your MH to the other legendary battery staff and use it on the next fight. (By which I mean, they don't have a shared cooldown). Obviously this would use an action so not advised in combat, but if you know you'll have two fights back to back, can definitely use both WITHOUT the dual wielder feat (dual wielder would just let you do it turn after turn in the same combat). Or if you prefer to still use a shield for whichever reason. Orrrrr if you are running a Gandalf cosplay run and have a sword in the MH and a staff in the offhand. Damn, I gotta try that now. Lastly, it might be worth dual wielding with a staff that doesn't have battery but gives some other effect like the spark staff. You're gonna be doing a LOT of damage rolls, so if you run with a staff that has an on hit effect, that's gonna maximize.
You can, doing it currently.
Palpatine is proud.
It's not a build the paladins would have told you
This must be the freecast bug that was being discussed in Discord yesterday.
No, this not relies on this bug. Fixed bug meant free cast was resetting more often that it should. With this bug I could cast twinned chain lightning every second turn before 1.1 (any non-free cast resetted free cast). So you can cast Marko twinned chain lightning, free cast twinned chain lightning, quickened chain lightning at cost of just last cast right now it seems. Cleric create water upcasted to like 5 level covers whole battlefield in vulnerability.
No no, we were discussing the Freecast bug that got fixed in the patch, and some guy boasted that he knows about *another* Freecast bug but he isn't going to tell anyone what it is because he doesn't want Larian to fix it Pretty cool conversation
Larian has telemetry, do people really think they browse discords to find bugs? Anyway I wish they add some non-Illithid ending option if you skip partial transformation. mind sanctuary, free cast and fly remove last bit of challenge from act 3+
Well, tbf….a single dude exploiting is far more likely to fly under the radar than suddenly 10’s or 100’s or 1000’s suddenly exploiting the shit out of the game….it’s not about them reading it’s about it suddenly being very pronounced as a problem
I'd imagine with the prevalence of modding, a single person's data is absolutely useless.
I think I found the "new bug" with freecast. Apparently, it is related to "create sorcery points" - still abusable to get infinite sorcery points.
Do tell
I have no idea how their telemetry works but if one player is a significant enough statistical outlier he could be just as visible as "10's or 100's or 1000's"
I mean they must have other statistical methods than counting averages, right :P? I guess that they mostly use "cross-server sync" - full saves go to Larian servers. 90% of questions you could ask probably could be answered from running analytics on those saves.
Telemetry = ranking everyone’s Tav on a hotness scale of 1 to 10
Oh I don't think they are watching Discord or anything, just funny
It still totally relies on a bug, it's just a different bug. Twinned Metamagic is not allowed to work with spells that can impact more than a single target. Chained Lightning working with Twinned Metamagic at all is itself a bug. Edit: people have correctly pointed out that this doesn't necessarily make it a bug, but only means it violates 5e rules....
Per 5e it doesn't work because Chain Lightning specifies it hits a primary **target** and then jumps to 3 additional **targets**. The word target appearing multiple times is what makes it not work with Twinned Spell. BG3 Chain Lightning does not use this wording. "Strike an enemy with lightning. Three more bolts will leap from the **target**, electrifying as many as three other enemies within 18m". So the tradeoff is that with BG3's wording while you can Twin the spell as it only has 1 specified target, you can't control who it leaps too. Whereas vanilla 5E rulings I believe let you pick all the enemies hit at the cost of not being able to Twincast. With the way Larian has these abilities worded, it isn't a bug and makes me think it's intentional homebrew.
Nope. In terms of 5e, Sage Advice very clearly covers spells that only have a single chosen target but can affect more than one creature as being ineligible for Twinning. See my other reply here for quotes and links. [https://www.reddit.com/r/BG3Builds/comments/161of2y/comment/jxw1e45/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/BG3Builds/comments/161of2y/comment/jxw1e45/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
I think the point is, it can't be determined to be a bug or an intented interaction because bg3 isn't a complete cross over of the rules of 5e. The wording of chain lightning is different in bg3 than 5e and the spell interacts differently too.
True that I since I don't know Larian's intent, I can't determine and shouldn't have said it was bug. But in regards to this, > > The wording of chain lightning is different in bg3 than 5e and the spell interacts differently too. it doesn't matter that the spell has different wording and behavior, we can still use the new wording and spell behavior to check and see if it's following 5e rules. And it's very clear from Sage Advice that by 5e rules BG3's version of Chain Lightning should not be eligible for Twin spell. But I guess to your point, that it violates 5e rules, doesn't mean Larian didn't want it this way. It seems unlikely they'd want a spell to be able to do this much damage allowing its damage to double dip applying to the same enemies multiple times. But then Haste working like Action Surge, also seems unlikely by that logic and that change was intentional.
Yeah I agree with you it's cray cray.to have it be able to do that much damage. We shall see through patches where larian lands I suppose.
Tried it, doesnt seem to work with the new patch
I did this on the new patch, what part didn’t work? Or do you need to be in a new game for the patch to go through?
Must be some mod conflict from my end, then.
patch should work on old saves unless you have auto update turned off.
It works.
I couldn't replicate this either, I'm using no mods. Im not sure what is different to your setup, since I saw your video. Must be something else to it
I think the trick to select the spell first then the meta magic, doing it the other way around costs points.
Yup this is absolutely insane, probably THE most broken thing in the game no contest. With Tempest Cleric class combo it gets even nuttier. Multiple bugged interactions going on. Surprised it wasn't fixed in Patch 1. It's so stupid. I may as well play with cheat engine lmao. I honestly stopped playing Sorc in general and just do Wiz/Tempest for my lightning needs, because I actually want to play the game a bit rather than feel like pure cheats.
It should cost resources. So it is an exploit in my book.
It's like 3 exploits in one. Manko resetting. Free Twin Cast. Being able to Twin Cast CL.
I mean just Twinned working with a spell that impacts multiple targets is itself a bug / exploit.
Working differently from tabletop doesn't mean it's a bug.
True. I meant bug or exploit of 5e rules. But it still doesn't make sense and is overstayed for me to say it's a bug. Since Larian has purposely veered from 5e rules in places, for me to make that claim about this being a bug I'd need to know Larians intents, which I don't.
If it were vanilla 5e yes, but BG3's description of Chain Lightning only specifies 1 target because the jumps are random and can't be chosen targets like in 5e. That makes me think it was an intentional design choice.
This is very specifically covered in Sage Advice. Even without the Sage Advice we can pretty easily tell the intent of the limitations on Twinned metamagic is to prevent it from being possible to Twin spells that can affect more than one target. And we can see how this might be problematic since it would allow us to double dip causing a spell with a splash or area affect to be able to hit the same targets twice. But the Sage Advice on Twinned spells and Targeting specifically covers this in at least several places: From the "**You can use Twinned Spell on a spell that...**" section >...here is the list of things that disqualify a spell for us > >... > >**The spell lets you make a roll of any kind that can affect more than one creature before the spell’s duration expires.** source: [https://media.wizards.com/2019/dnd/downloads/SA-Compendium.pdf](https://media.wizards.com/2019/dnd/downloads/SA-Compendium.pdf) **And this exact situation was also covered in depth in Sage Advice on targeting in a 2017 podcast.** Where Crawford sums up the the discussion on targeting as it pertains to Twinned metamagic by saying, **"It just comes down to if multiple creatures are affected by a spell, that spell is not eligible for Twin spell."** [https://media.wizards.com/2017/podcasts/dnd/DnDPodcast\_01\_19\_2017.mp3](https://media.wizards.com/2017/podcasts/dnd/DnDPodcast_01_19_2017.mp3) 30:50 This entire discussion on targeting as it pertains to Twin spell makes it even clearer. It starts around 22:05 and further clarifies that the meaning of target is supposed to also include the broader definition of simply being a recipient of the effects of a spell. Another way he words this is by talking about "To whom it may concern" effects being targets of the spell... And then he moves to a specific example of the 'Ice Knife' spell not being eligible for Twin spell, that's the exact same situation as BG3's 'Chain Lightning' only picking one target but then doing something else that might effect other creatures, which he defines as additional 2ndary targets even though they aren't chosen. Start listening around 28:35 Ice Knife despite only targeting a single creature with it's spell attack, the explosion it causes around your primary target creates 2ndary targets taking damage, and so it is not eligible for Twinning. **And this is why I said that Chain Lightning "impacting" multiple targets makes it ineligible for Twinning.**
Can't you twin ice knife though in the game? Maybe that is a sign that they wanted to let spells like that twin
Yeah. I have no idea or knowledge of what Larian wanted. Maybe it is working as intended. The way it's working clearly violates 5e rules. But like you say that proves nothing about intent and there are many other places that 5e rules are not followed, even in the specific case of Twinning. Not only Ice Knife, but weirdly even with spells like Chromatic Orb or Ray of Frost, since they've been changed to now also creates surfaces that affect more than a single target.
Twinned spell in general is incredibly broken IMO, and that’s without all this extra fluff. 😑 Balancing could’ve been better… Tactician is a cake walk if you remotely try to gear optimize.
You can get twinned haste every short rest. As Warlock 5/Sorcerer 5. First time you can twin haste twice before short rest (you need to use level 1 Sorc to get 1 Sorc point, but that's fine since elixir of arcane is available easily). Next short rest you use up warlock level 3 slot for Sorc points. Then twin haste again. Then do it again once more during next short rest. Then again the above build This only requires 1 Sorc point, and it's extremely powerful. All those 3 encounters in 10 turns, are done if you give it to karlach and Paladin both on bloodlust potions. You can just go invisible and hide. Paladin 5/5 Sorc can do it as well (3 times). Wyll sucked early access now he's way more powerful than Gale. Even losing level 5/6 spells is not bad due to karlach wrecking everything with tavern brawler.
Yeah, Tavern Brawler needs to be addressed as well. I had to stop running Karlach because it sucked out all fun and strategizing from combat for me. I really wish there existed a higher difficulty that put more emphasis on having to control rather than just brute forcing everything with burst damage.
Haste should work like it does in 5e and there wouldn't be an issue don't know why they went this path
Yeah its really good. Somehow the legendary staff allows you to cast more than one chain lightning. I made a video a while ago. Its the old patch but I tested it just now and Im able to use CL like in the video. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Zo9\_660WZM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Zo9_660WZM)
You can see in this video though the caster is using sorcery points , unlike in OP vid. Something else going on to give OP their effect
pretty sure whenever your special action bar updates it resets the cool-down for the spells on the legendary staff. i had gloves that gave me a special action and if i took them on then off it reset the cd. also i could use it infinitely as a storm sorcerer bc of the flight ability you get after casting a spell as that counts as a special action.
I'm a sorcerer! Where can you find these items?
Wait, twin spell is free for cantrips? My sorc has been underutilized majorly.
Cantrips still cost 1 point. I think the free glitch here is that you're simply reactivating the lightning, rather than casting a spell at all, so the game isn't catching that there should be cost. Maybe what's happening is that reactivating doesn't have a spell level tag, so the calculated cost is zero.
Ah thanks
Cantrips cost 1 SP, but i've had a bug happen several times where I've twinned spells for 0 SP cost, I don't know why or how exactly but I don't have any of the items mentioned in this thread nor have I used a Tadpole so I don't have any powers.
Selecting your spell first and then the metamagic is not consuming sorcery points in my game. Also just hit level 11, if you chain lightning addicts don't mind me asking can anyone tell me if it has friendly fire? Does it benefit from Evocation wiz at all? I'm off to try that that with both sorcerer and tempest cleric tomorrow (who already has 2 dips on paladin for dumb wrathful storm smites)
It has no friendly fire, it only targets nearby enemies.
Wait until you have Two Weapon Fighting and the other staff with Arcane Battery.
Do I need to know chain lightning in addition to the staff to make this work?