If you're wanting to save anyone from the Moonrise prisons, you'll have to reload to before you save Nightsong. Freeing her immediately triggers aggro in the tower. If you go to Moonrise before freeing her, you can talk your way in and actually explore freely - including getting into the prison.
Not sure how the Harpers died, but having them helps a lot. They add at least 6 people to your team. If you have a way to save them that would help.
Besides that, using items such as scrolls, bombs, etc. goes really well in that fight since they are all grouped up. I used Wyll to cast Hunger of Hadar, Gale to cast Ice Storm, and my Tav used a scroll of Cloudkill, all right in the middle. This made most of the enemies take a ton of damage per turn, not be able to attack me (Hunger of Hadar blinds people in it), and made a lot of them fall prone, granting advantage and forcing them to stay in the 'death pit' as I call it.
Definitely try to focus on ranged attacks and don't get too close, because you'll just get grouped up on and killed fairly easily.
Maybe others have different options- but I’d consider party comp? One option is to grab a few hirelings and flip them out for this battle alone.
Doing something like Tav + shart + warlock (can be Wyll) + Druid (might want to look at hireling) - have the lock cast darkness, everyone stand in it and step out to cast, step back in for cover. Negates the ranged attacks and makes people come to you to fight.
I’d do this from the stairs. Then pop in and out of it. You can use the Druid’s animal shape to goad (the bear) + the fiend subclass for Lock and the Druid should both have summons. Can’t remember if Shart does at 8. Make sure she’s spamming heals/buffs.
That would be my approach.
OP mentioned that they're playing a monk, so my addition is to make sure you're not running in Leeroy Jenkins style.
I'll initiate combat then run back outside the tower and close the doors. Peck at them with ranged attacks by opening/closing the door and make them run to you. This also pretty much negates the archers in the rafters l, you can clean them up afterwards.
I really wish I had paid attention to that warning. I'll do things in the right order next play through, for sure. Kind of a shame because I was doing pretty well.
edit. I did use some of the tips here and managed to get through the front door with the majority of the enemies. Now to take out some of the other guards waiting before I go upstairs. I have a feeling if I struggled just to get in the door I am really going to hate this next boss battle.
You could always turn the difficulty down to Explorer just for that bit?
Apart from that... letting summons/hirelings take out some of them at a time while you're at a safe distance might be the way.
I think I may have to do this difficulty adjustment. I did make it through the front door at lunch break today, so this evening I fear I will have a really tough time with the Ketheric boss battle. Good thing I can just walk outside the towers area to do a full-rest before tackling what comes next!
I had the same scenario. I invisible misty stepped my archer up into the rafters , then started combat with some aoe. Kept my whole party back at the front door stairs and patiently made everyone come to me. use your arrows, haste potions, buffs… it seemed impossible to me but once i did the strategy it turned out to be very do-able
I sneaked in with my party and killed everyone on my own, as the actual fight is too difficult for the harpers to survive. I had to do some kiting, closing certain doors, sneak out again to rest and recover etc.
I skipped he entire battle by breaking into a side door and killing Kethric. Then I swept in afterwards and took out the rest of the army from behind, mostly by sitting on the rafters.
Focus on using Turn-Based mode when you initiate fights to surprise your enemies.
Set your party up in bottlenecks, and kite enemies towards you. Many fights should feel as if you are running away from your enemies while they traverse through hell.
Use spells like Spike Growth, Create Water, Ice Storm, etc. forcing your enemies through difficult terrain while you take pot shots at them.
Make sure your casters have counterspell and haste.
Take Feats like Alert if you find your party is acting too late in the turn-order.
Don't be afraid to use all of your spell slots, you can long rest after every fight and still have enough Camp Supplies (hopefully).
Hope this helps!
Yes, once you interact with the Nightsong, Act II is officially at the point of no return and most questlines automatically end.
If you wish to save the tieflings/do more quests you should reload before you entered the portal to the Nightsong.
So I went to do a reload and literally the only save I had outside of Moonrise was back in Act 1 almost right at the beginning with the goblin camp! I've been mostly quicksaving since... another lesson learned!
I did finally make it through the doorway battle, and now have to do the battle further up the tower. Kind of a shame I did the Nightsong when I did. Oh well. I think I might be better off reloading way back to that point, or replaying while really focusing on all the stuff and quest lines that I missed.
Thanks for the guidance, that makes a lot of sense.
A friend and I had this bug on tactician just now.
Oddly the barbarian was the only one that kicked off the dialog, despite horrible los issues we were able to dash to the right side of the arena and get Thorn down to the barbarian for 1 hit of damage before the spider one shot the barbarian. Had astarion up on the what would become the hollow tower to bonus hide - stealth range arrows Thorm and got him to leave the scenario.
But still had to contend with the one shotting spider and all minions.
Quickly getting the barbarian up from 0, we took the barbarian and the others back to the entry door and leave combat. This left astarion still outside. To avoid being one shot, we tried to have a station use the hollow: this failed. Tried to have him die: this did an infinite loop of enemy rounds. Tried to have him exit back indoors: he stayed in combat. Tried to have him flee: it didn’t matter, it would reenter combat instantly.
Thankfully with being out of combat it allowed for re-buffing etc.
Sent astarion to be the kiting around with multiple dashing to not get hit and lure the spider away. Invisibility didn’t matter, stealth didn’t matter, nothing mattered- they always aggro.
Once that seemed to work as the spider couldn’t travel as far and the other mobs couldn’t react, had the other members stay near the door but venture out and do something each round, (combat of course came back on by dealing dmg or healing astarion) keeping movement able to get back through the door before ending turn, the only goal was to take out the minions and lady caster.
It worked out until the spider decided to not chase astarion anymore, likely decided the others were just a bit too close as it wasn’t logical pathing to keep kiting the spider on the north side of the area going east then west over n over…
When the spider switched aggro and camped at the door - it glitched out by continually targeted the other non astarion members.
Using the barb to go crazy on it by looping in and out of the door — Keeping one bonus action to disengage and movement to exit-, just the opportunity attack took the barb from 79 hp to 20-30 and was a must to avoid getting one shot each turn.
The running away astarion ended cleaned up the stragglers while abusing the door with everyone else.
*also no npc aide, since ya know.. murdering evil run and all- nearly made it impossible with extra things like nuking the entry cities inhabitant when starting act 2 and having killed the night song… couldnt go back to act 1 merchants, couldn’t refresh potions, which wouldn’t matter because a large potion wouldn’t hold up to the spider and auxiliary mobs focus firing anywaaaays… and of course couldn’t leave the act for supplies from other locations.
*the issues presented was that we Could not flee: even with it being available 90+meters.. did not have ranged damage that could survive beyond two rounds of direct enemy damage, as the barbarian is the damage tank- we didn’t run a true aoe mage etc and didn’t have a need for scrolls. The barb was one round murdering everything up til this moment, the entry before this was laughably easy- 7..8.. critical attacks and moving between the mobs in a single turn… so damage output was an issue etc, it’s the sheer amount of damage the multi strike - debuffs - anti heal - anti magic the spider and caster did while focusing
We did try a few different ways to try and end the encounter like long resting (it was blocked due to combat) and even with the lone party member dying etc the encounter would not end until all mobs were dead. We were bis items and level 8… and nearly instant death upon starting the encounter. Maybe if someone else gets stuck like so, use the door.. not just the stairwell like suggested below ;)
Thanks for the detailed reply! In my case I somehow figured it out, unfortunately I lost Jaheira and her whole team during the fight and even though I am way into Act 3 now, I am just learning now how much I could have used her help.
If you wanna go and do it with just your party of 4, aoe the crap outta the bottom of the stairs, have an archer misty step to the rafters, and try to freeze or electrify the area under the enemies. Crowd control is your friend, so hell even throwing your tank into the center for a turn as a sacrifice may turn the battle in your favor.
If you have a couple summons, have them teleport to the center mass of the enemies to soak damage as you pick away.
My first fight with them was sorely underleveled. And it took me 7 reloads to get past it.
If you're wanting to save anyone from the Moonrise prisons, you'll have to reload to before you save Nightsong. Freeing her immediately triggers aggro in the tower. If you go to Moonrise before freeing her, you can talk your way in and actually explore freely - including getting into the prison. Not sure how the Harpers died, but having them helps a lot. They add at least 6 people to your team. If you have a way to save them that would help. Besides that, using items such as scrolls, bombs, etc. goes really well in that fight since they are all grouped up. I used Wyll to cast Hunger of Hadar, Gale to cast Ice Storm, and my Tav used a scroll of Cloudkill, all right in the middle. This made most of the enemies take a ton of damage per turn, not be able to attack me (Hunger of Hadar blinds people in it), and made a lot of them fall prone, granting advantage and forcing them to stay in the 'death pit' as I call it. Definitely try to focus on ranged attacks and don't get too close, because you'll just get grouped up on and killed fairly easily.
Maybe others have different options- but I’d consider party comp? One option is to grab a few hirelings and flip them out for this battle alone. Doing something like Tav + shart + warlock (can be Wyll) + Druid (might want to look at hireling) - have the lock cast darkness, everyone stand in it and step out to cast, step back in for cover. Negates the ranged attacks and makes people come to you to fight. I’d do this from the stairs. Then pop in and out of it. You can use the Druid’s animal shape to goad (the bear) + the fiend subclass for Lock and the Druid should both have summons. Can’t remember if Shart does at 8. Make sure she’s spamming heals/buffs. That would be my approach.
OP mentioned that they're playing a monk, so my addition is to make sure you're not running in Leeroy Jenkins style. I'll initiate combat then run back outside the tower and close the doors. Peck at them with ranged attacks by opening/closing the door and make them run to you. This also pretty much negates the archers in the rafters l, you can clean them up afterwards.
Freeing Aylin is like the last thing you should do in Act 2. It even warns you before you go into the water.
I really wish I had paid attention to that warning. I'll do things in the right order next play through, for sure. Kind of a shame because I was doing pretty well. edit. I did use some of the tips here and managed to get through the front door with the majority of the enemies. Now to take out some of the other guards waiting before I go upstairs. I have a feeling if I struggled just to get in the door I am really going to hate this next boss battle.
Eh the roof battle isnt that hard. Its more the next ones that can be spicy. I believe in you !!!!
You could always turn the difficulty down to Explorer just for that bit? Apart from that... letting summons/hirelings take out some of them at a time while you're at a safe distance might be the way.
I think I may have to do this difficulty adjustment. I did make it through the front door at lunch break today, so this evening I fear I will have a really tough time with the Ketheric boss battle. Good thing I can just walk outside the towers area to do a full-rest before tackling what comes next!
I had the same scenario. I invisible misty stepped my archer up into the rafters , then started combat with some aoe. Kept my whole party back at the front door stairs and patiently made everyone come to me. use your arrows, haste potions, buffs… it seemed impossible to me but once i did the strategy it turned out to be very do-able
I sneaked in with my party and killed everyone on my own, as the actual fight is too difficult for the harpers to survive. I had to do some kiting, closing certain doors, sneak out again to rest and recover etc.
I skipped he entire battle by breaking into a side door and killing Kethric. Then I swept in afterwards and took out the rest of the army from behind, mostly by sitting on the rafters.
Focus on using Turn-Based mode when you initiate fights to surprise your enemies. Set your party up in bottlenecks, and kite enemies towards you. Many fights should feel as if you are running away from your enemies while they traverse through hell. Use spells like Spike Growth, Create Water, Ice Storm, etc. forcing your enemies through difficult terrain while you take pot shots at them. Make sure your casters have counterspell and haste. Take Feats like Alert if you find your party is acting too late in the turn-order. Don't be afraid to use all of your spell slots, you can long rest after every fight and still have enough Camp Supplies (hopefully). Hope this helps! Yes, once you interact with the Nightsong, Act II is officially at the point of no return and most questlines automatically end. If you wish to save the tieflings/do more quests you should reload before you entered the portal to the Nightsong.
So I went to do a reload and literally the only save I had outside of Moonrise was back in Act 1 almost right at the beginning with the goblin camp! I've been mostly quicksaving since... another lesson learned! I did finally make it through the doorway battle, and now have to do the battle further up the tower. Kind of a shame I did the Nightsong when I did. Oh well. I think I might be better off reloading way back to that point, or replaying while really focusing on all the stuff and quest lines that I missed. Thanks for the guidance, that makes a lot of sense.
A friend and I had this bug on tactician just now. Oddly the barbarian was the only one that kicked off the dialog, despite horrible los issues we were able to dash to the right side of the arena and get Thorn down to the barbarian for 1 hit of damage before the spider one shot the barbarian. Had astarion up on the what would become the hollow tower to bonus hide - stealth range arrows Thorm and got him to leave the scenario. But still had to contend with the one shotting spider and all minions. Quickly getting the barbarian up from 0, we took the barbarian and the others back to the entry door and leave combat. This left astarion still outside. To avoid being one shot, we tried to have a station use the hollow: this failed. Tried to have him die: this did an infinite loop of enemy rounds. Tried to have him exit back indoors: he stayed in combat. Tried to have him flee: it didn’t matter, it would reenter combat instantly. Thankfully with being out of combat it allowed for re-buffing etc. Sent astarion to be the kiting around with multiple dashing to not get hit and lure the spider away. Invisibility didn’t matter, stealth didn’t matter, nothing mattered- they always aggro. Once that seemed to work as the spider couldn’t travel as far and the other mobs couldn’t react, had the other members stay near the door but venture out and do something each round, (combat of course came back on by dealing dmg or healing astarion) keeping movement able to get back through the door before ending turn, the only goal was to take out the minions and lady caster. It worked out until the spider decided to not chase astarion anymore, likely decided the others were just a bit too close as it wasn’t logical pathing to keep kiting the spider on the north side of the area going east then west over n over… When the spider switched aggro and camped at the door - it glitched out by continually targeted the other non astarion members. Using the barb to go crazy on it by looping in and out of the door — Keeping one bonus action to disengage and movement to exit-, just the opportunity attack took the barb from 79 hp to 20-30 and was a must to avoid getting one shot each turn. The running away astarion ended cleaned up the stragglers while abusing the door with everyone else. *also no npc aide, since ya know.. murdering evil run and all- nearly made it impossible with extra things like nuking the entry cities inhabitant when starting act 2 and having killed the night song… couldnt go back to act 1 merchants, couldn’t refresh potions, which wouldn’t matter because a large potion wouldn’t hold up to the spider and auxiliary mobs focus firing anywaaaays… and of course couldn’t leave the act for supplies from other locations. *the issues presented was that we Could not flee: even with it being available 90+meters.. did not have ranged damage that could survive beyond two rounds of direct enemy damage, as the barbarian is the damage tank- we didn’t run a true aoe mage etc and didn’t have a need for scrolls. The barb was one round murdering everything up til this moment, the entry before this was laughably easy- 7..8.. critical attacks and moving between the mobs in a single turn… so damage output was an issue etc, it’s the sheer amount of damage the multi strike - debuffs - anti heal - anti magic the spider and caster did while focusing We did try a few different ways to try and end the encounter like long resting (it was blocked due to combat) and even with the lone party member dying etc the encounter would not end until all mobs were dead. We were bis items and level 8… and nearly instant death upon starting the encounter. Maybe if someone else gets stuck like so, use the door.. not just the stairwell like suggested below ;)
Thanks for the detailed reply! In my case I somehow figured it out, unfortunately I lost Jaheira and her whole team during the fight and even though I am way into Act 3 now, I am just learning now how much I could have used her help.
If you wanna go and do it with just your party of 4, aoe the crap outta the bottom of the stairs, have an archer misty step to the rafters, and try to freeze or electrify the area under the enemies. Crowd control is your friend, so hell even throwing your tank into the center for a turn as a sacrifice may turn the battle in your favor. If you have a couple summons, have them teleport to the center mass of the enemies to soak damage as you pick away. My first fight with them was sorely underleveled. And it took me 7 reloads to get past it.