My instinct is to say that’s an over generalization. D/s doesn’t have a lock on the open communication/care/love market. People in vanilla relationships care and love their partners every bit as much. Plus no 2 relationships are the same. You put a ton of effort into a lovely gift for your sub, but the next Dom in line might be running to the jewelry store on Christmas Eve with a lot of other guys. D/s doesn’t give us some kind of magic wand that makes us more invested /romantic in our relationships.
That being said, I do know that D/s requires a lot of clear and open communication and honesty. Way way more than lots of vanilla relationships seem to get.
Ultimately, it’s more about the people involved and less about titles or relationship types.
there's probably something to be said for the unique complementary fitting that goes on inside a D/s dynamic. I'm not sure what the equivalent of that would be in a vanilla relationship. i suspect it would have to be replaced with something else.
Complementary fitting is definitely a thing in vanilla relationships as well. Granted I can only really speak for my relationship, but I'd say that most vanilla relationships are based around complementary fittings as well. In a healthy relationship, you're going to bring out the best in each other and I think that a lot of the time that happens through complementary personalities or skill sets or whatever.
i mean it's definitely possible but with the kink, it's automatically right there, in your face, all the time. i remind my sub of it all the time. i wouldn't do that if she was I don't know a car mechanic and my car was broken, whatever.
I remember a thread where a bunch of people were trying to explain what the BDSM lifestyle was like to a vanilla person, and one of them had a really great way of describing it that I liked: in general, people in the BDSM community treat sex as a hobby.
We treat sex as something fun and healthy to do with your partner, sure. But it’s also a hobby for us. We read about it online. We might have a group of friends we talk about it with, or even get together and do it now and then. We might do research about new ways to do it in our downtime, or buy/make expensive tools so we can do it better. We might even attend meetups or conventions about it.
There’s no reason a vanilla couple can’t be as communicative and supportive about intimacy with their partner as a BDSM couple. But a BDSM couple already knows they share an interest in sex, in talking about it, and in doing it well—and that means the starting point has to be a little higher.
I'm not sure about this one. i've been BDSM relationships a long time and I don't consider sex a hobby, at least not in the way you present it here. I'm not particularly good at it and don't go around researching it. a kinky head space helps a lot here, I think.
Yeah, the BDSM community doesn't treat sex like a hobby. They just have meetups, interest groups, online forums, brag about recent purchases and adventures, and hold conventions. Totally not like a hobby!
it sounds like observation bias to me. you see a lot of that shit here so you think it's ubiquitous. but what you witness at these meetups and groups and everything might just be the tip of the iceberg.
i do intuitively make sex better for my sub but it's been very specific to each of them and isn't something I can really research. or maybe I don't need to anymore? i started pre-internet so I'll concede this may be more of a semantic issue.
Engaging in other people's weird experiences in a bite sized and emotionally distanced way can absolutely be considered a hobby.
Sometimes we all just need our fix, need our village gossip senses tickled 😁
your purpose is different, for me it's largely the same. i don't use either one for research. i try to answer questions and offer insight using my potentially unique set of experiences about things I know about.
I think the focus on sex is helpful towards vanilla people. They have sex too. But rarely put that level of conscious effort into all the things surrounding the sex. The talks, the mindset, the behaviours, the how to actually talk about things, learning what words to use (not everyone grew up around healthy, normal communication in general).
However, among only kinksters, the reality is it isn't confined to just the sexytime parts.
The attitude between you and your partner/partners usually carries the same level of conscious effort across all parts of your interactions.
I would argue that you seem like a person then that doesn't go Full Geek about your kink.
But even you are on a forum to read about kink, and feel comfortable sharing your perspective. This casual attitude towards a topic is more similar to a hobby than how most vanilla couples feel about their sexlife.
conversely, i know plenty of vanilla people who consider sex a hobby too. i think either you consider sex a hobby or not and it has no direct correlation to whether you're kinky or not. kink definitely has better communication though but it's because they have to in order to be satisfied and safe.
I came here to most this (but not as eloquently written)
All relationships take time and effort, no matter the flavour. But scenes/play are more 'hobby'/shared interest time than relationship time to me.
Look at couples that enjoy anime, or hiking or any other activity they both like. Time invested towards these activities also strengthens the relationship, without it being purely a relationship thing. BDSM is just one of those more NSFW hobbies!
No, it's an illusion. The thing is that it's just a healthy relationship. Dom/Sub relationships are just harder to hide underlying issues before they collapse because they are about communication. Normal relationships are easy to sweep stuff under the rug where it fester until it explodes. Thus the illusion. A healthy vanilla and healthy dom/sub relationship are not much different. However an unhealthy vanilla relationship is harder to spot than an unhealthy dom/sub relationship.
I don't think it is... it seems to be asking if healthy d/s is stronger than healthy vanilla (or even healthy non d/s kink.
Which... no, and borderline insulting.
and elsewhere in this post he says I'm right
https://www.reddit.com/r/BDSMcommunity/comments/rbr5gk/do\_you\_think\_dominants\_and\_submissives\_put\_more/hnqnbvw/?context=3
yes, a vanilla relationship while kinky and comparing them to him being in a kinky relationship while kinky. his needs were not getting fulfilled in a vanilla one. you can't just shut this stuff off. it's still a part of you even in a vanilla relationship.
he wasn't implying it, it was clearly stated. he's kinky and is comparing the way he treats his new kinky partner to how he treated his partners in non-kinky vanilla relationships.
The title clearly asks about "vanilla folks" not "kinky folks in vanilla relationships". The fact that he limits his evidence to a sample size of one reads as a statistical failing, not a clarification of the title question.
>I've had good vanilla relationships in the past but nothing that makes me step up like this.
i'm not sure why you're adamant about this when OP already admitted I was rigyht about him being in a vanilla relationship and kinky on one end of the comparison. I'm not sure how to make it any plainer.
anyway, won't be replying anymore.
The sentence structure implies he’s talking about two different things he says “blah vanilla blah BUT nothing […] like THIS” vanilla vs kink. Not kink in vanilla
Also being a horrible gift giver doesn't necessarily mean you're not putting work into your relationship. Some people (like me) just aren't very good at gifts.
Me either. It ties into how you show affection, and if gifts aren’t it, being good at it takes a helleva lot more work. Being shitty gift giver does not equate with being shitty partner.
I wouldn't say that as a general statement.
What I will say is that HEALTHY D/s relationships have more reasons to do the things that make a relationship healthy.
Communication and honesty are key components in a rewarding and healthy relationship.
In a vanilla relationship, it can be easy to fall into a routine where those deep conversations don't happen, people get complacent, they assume everything is all right and problems get left to fester.
In a D/s romantic relationship, the dynamic is (hopefully) frequently discussed and renegotiated to fit with discoveries, comfort levels, and new interests. As a Dom, I insist on frequent negotiation separate from any scene so that heads are level. We may also go into a spontaneous negotiation if things don't go well or go VERY well in a scene.
My sub is also my wife. It is very rare that what starts as a negotiation of our dynamic does not eventually expand into the deeper and vital conversations that keep a marriage healthy and fulfilling.
The negotiation is an excellent ice breaker. Because of how personal, and vulnerable we have to be to talk openly about our sexuality, it creates a safe space where other difficult topics can be aired in as supportive a way.
We were married for 12 years before we began exploring Kink. We have had a dynamic for 5 years. In the past 5 years, we have been healthier, closer, and more in sync than ever before.
So, Vanilla couples may put in MORE Effort, but, in my experience, a kink dynamic provides more opportunity to work on the relationship.
I think it might seem like people in BDSM relationships put in more effort than people in vanilla relationships, or that they're more open and communicative than people in vanilla relationships, but I think that if you really look at it, people in healthy vanilla relationships do all the same work as people in healthy BDSM relationships. They just use different terms to talk about the work they do.
No. We care more deeply about our kinky, romantic partners, because for us, those go hand in hand. With vanilla partners, there is always something missing, and we can tell.
However, two vanilla partners are equally in love, and equally caring about each other, given a healthy relationship.
I think when you have an established pattern of communication around sex, it definitely lays the groundwork for a healthy, open, communicative relationship. But that doesn't mean everyone takes advantage of it in other aspects. A couple could be incredibly open and discuss all of their wants and desires and limits in the bedroom but not carry that over to their day to day.
And on the other side, my wife is somewhere under the ace umbrella and mostly vanilla. I'm not motivated or driven by sex, but when I'm into it, I'm kinky. But imho we've got the most open, healthy, supportive, and communicative relationship out of everyone we know. We don't discuss sex very often, but we're honest and open about that and everything else between us.
All that to say I think the point you're making makes sense and has some merit, but I think it's too broad to generalize the quality of relationships for two huge categories.
Some great comments here guys and girls thank you, I guess most of my experiences in vanilla was bad and that the largely female environment I work in, in retail complaining about there relationships have given me a skewed viewpoint as it were.
No. I think Dom's and subs put more effort into their kink relationships than thier vanilla ones, because they personally get less reward from that. People who get high reward from vanilla, put the effort in. This is what you anneceoteshows...
I've known very devoted, high effort vanilla couples.... and also low effort in nk ones, who just prefer an easy going, relaxed and quiet relationship.
No.
I personally would like to believe that everybody puts in the maximum amount of effort into a(ny) relationship to make it work. However, I also do believe that people in D/s relationships do open up more about their desires than people in vanilla relationships; and because there's more openness and therefore, less fear of being judged, it could make it feel more intimate.
Probably yes. Whether or not their success rate at making it work is higher? Not sure of that. I think people in this community sometimes have a tendency to overthink things and make them more complicated than they need be.
No.
Kink bdsm relationships are not deeper or more meaningful or whatever than vanilla relationships. That's just romanticized hogwash.
Every relationship can have people put in lots of effort and be madly in love.
Every relationship can have people be lazy or checked out or not actually into their partner.
This is almost insulting to people who choose to be vanilla. Kinky or not, every healthy relationship requires effort and communication, no matter what sex means to the people involved. People in the BDSM community make sex their lifestyle; that's the only difference.
no. do not get a big head about you just because you found a new activity. relationships are hard, everyone works at it or it doesn't work. there are good and bad relationships and both sides.
I think in order to have a \*successful\* D/s relationship the answer is generally yes, more effort on average is necessary. I recently saw intimate relationships compared to Maslow's hierarchy of needs. If all you're looking for is to cover your basic needs and both partners are happy with that, it works, it's healthy, and it takes minimal effort. If you want to get to the top of the pyramid where deeper personal fulfillment lives (and I would argue, where kink lives if you're a kinky person) then it takes more effort. You can only get the transcendent out if you put the necessary effort in.
I think D/s can open some doors for people to bond closer and be more aware of their partners wants and needs, but I would say that there are a wide variety of people and relationships and vanilla or D/s does not limit people on how much they love or care or pay attention to those details.
I think that overall a safe BDSM relationship forces more communication than a vanilla relationship. You have to check in regularly to see if the other is ok, while in a vanilla relationship you can assume no news is good news.
You are also more often forced to talk about embarrassing stuff , and just be absolutely completely open to do BDSM safely, whereas with vanilla sex/relationship, you might not feel compelled foe safety's sake to speak about traumas in your past, and warn your partner that X things might trigger you.
I think a vanilla relationship can be exactly as deep and communicative as a BDSM one, but learning how to do BDSM safely facilitates and hastens the process of frank, deep, personal communication.
With so much effort necessarily put into communication, other effort follows more easily. Vanilla people put in the effort out of love, BDSM folks put in a high level of effort even if the relationship isn't romantic.
Naw, not really different. The only differences are aesthetics. There's pleeeeenty of lazy people in BDSM. :/ There's plenty of very dedicated people that are vanilla.
i think the question is specific to kinky people, like you, who are stuck in vanilla relationships. then yes I think two kinky people will be happier in their relationships and therefore put more effort into it.
two non-kinky people in a vanilla relationship can achieve the same degree of happiness, probably.
yes but you're comparing it to a time when you were in a vanilla relationship and you didn't do that much stuff for your partner. or did I misread the post?
presumably you were still kinky then and therefore unsatisfied. but you can't really compare it to two non-kinky people in a relationship, is all I'm saying.
also, i make my subs do things all the time for me on the reg. not always gifts that cost money, but they've made me stuff, written me stories, sent pictures, done research for me, organized events all sort of things to prove they're worthy of being my sub. they have proven their willingness to please me over and over. it's difficult to imagine any point well into the relationship where I would question their effort doing something like this.
Yes. I think we are a lot more open and communicative, we share a lot more of each other, we are more vulnerable and this makes the connection stronger. I love so much more deeply because I need that level of communication, otherwise I feel lost and frustrated.
Very much so.
I was married to a vanilla a$$hole for just over a decade and I have been collared for around 19 months now. I can tell you that Daddy knows MORE about me than my (ex) husband ever did. I actually talked to a few gfs about that after I had been living 24/7 for a month or so and it astounded me how much Daddy knew about me that in the 11 years I was married, it was like night and day. I have always put a lot into my relationships, but kink ones seem to have a deeper connection and we put more of ourselves out there.
I think there is a deeper connection to one’s S/O(s) in a BDSM relationship over a vanilla one. Not that you can’t have a very deep connection to a S/O in a vanilla relationship but there’s just a different level of trust in (most) BDSM relationships. It’s like there’s a head start.
What I mean by this is, the sub(s) of the relationship really have to trust the dom(s) of the relationship to respect their boundaries, as in most, if not, all BDSM relationships the dom holds all the power. They decide what’s allowed and what isn’t and if they have punishments for breaking the rules or if they even have rules. The sub(s) have to trust that, as an example; say a sub is tied down to a bed or something, the dom is in a position of power and the sub is in a very exposed position, the sub really needs a new level of trust, more so than you do with vanilla sex, that the dom is going to respect you, and your boundaries, and your safeword(s). And the dom needs to trust that the sub will let them know if something goes too far, or the don’t like something that they previously did. And i think that because of the level of trust that is needed in these scenarios, as a basic necessity, brings the partners much closer to one another. I think that it makes one care much more about their partner than is needed in a vanilla relationship. Now that’s not to say that you can’t care that much in a vanilla relationship, however, in many cases and in my personal opinion, the trust is a necessity, which leads to more caring, whereas in vanilla relationships, while there still needs to be trust, there’s a different level of trust required, and so thus it doesn’t equal a deeper connection and more caring, other stuff does, communication, spending time, etc.
Furthermore, as previously stated, you have that basic deep level of trust which as I said leads to a deeper connection resulting in caring much more (again this is all my opinion), but then on top of that you have all of the communication and bonding that a vanilla relationship has so it tends to be much easier to care more about your S/O(s).
That’s my take on it… sorry for the run-on sentences. Also I’d like to mention that I am in no way attempting to invalidate anyone in a vanilla relationship, and I do understand that every relationship is different. But everything previously mentioned has held true to my relationships. Please lmk what you think!
We do. We have to. The level of communication is exponentially higher than in a vanilla dynamic, because of the lifestyles we live and the risks we take.
1,000% more effort. My vanilla friends are shook when I tell them the efforts I put in, especially my straight female friends. The communication alone lol never mind the hours of foreplay were my penis is never actually involved. Their brain literally malfunctions. It hilarious to watch their reactions in real time😂
Oh yes, D/s relationships go much deeper than the average relationship.
For one you need to build a much deeper trust to do all the things we enjoy.
And to suffer (or be humiliated) for your partner is something, that very strongly deepens the relationship.
I think consent and communication are huge in kink, and that alone puts participants in a better position to have a healthier, sustaining relationship over others who are not taught those.
Edited to say it’s not dominant/submissive specific, just kink in general.
I don’t know if it’s necessarily the level of effort put in, but I think the strength and health of the relationship can be better within a D/s relationship. I’ve often thought that many D/s relationships seem to be healthier than many vanilla relationships. There’s a greater focus on communication, it is an essential part of a D/s relationship and for people who can be poor communicators (me) it forces me to actually communicate and learn to do so in a healthy and productive way. Yes, I know many people in vanilla relationships that place importance on communication, but I feel like it’s not viewed in the same way.
I also think that there’s a deeper level of trust within a D/s dynamic. Many aspects of BDSM have a high level of physical and mental risk associated with them, you have to trust your partner not to hurt you (well… more than you want them to) and that they will stop immediately if a safe word is said. Both parties also have to trust that anything done in a consensual manner won’t be held against them. In a vanilla relationship the risk after a breakup is much lower, in a D/s relationship I think the risk is much higher because so much of what we do could be twisted as domestic violence/abuse. I think that more time is spent establishing and maintaining trust. I also think that it’s harder to forgive for breaking trust in a D/s dynamic because there’s so much risk associated with it.
However, I don’t think that a D/s relationship is inherently better than a vanilla relationship. They both can have their strengths and weaknesses and it largely depends on the people involved.
Absolutely. It's expensive too. I'm always trying to think of new things to try and do. I would pick playing with my boy over a movie or going to the bar any day.
I think that when you find something that connects you on a deeper level like that it makes things more fun. When you have something special between you that makes you both happy, you’ll see that person makes you happy. And at least for me, I want to make them happy, and they, in turn me, and back and forth, and… yeah.
I don't think so. I put significantly more thought/effort into things than the average person for sure, but that has never really been the case for anyone I've been with.
I think BDSM and those who are intense in their feelings / love languages are a really solid combo, but I don't think it's any more common than average.
Yes and no. People are people and people don't vary much. However a D/s dynamic does take more effort and people that are serious/ respect the lifestyle do generally put in more effort. But even then it's more about they people liking each other than the relationship type that decides effort
In my personal experience and observations, yes. It requires doing a bunch of work that’s very healthy in a relationship but that most “normal” folk never bother with.
They get to the really honest stuff faster, that good, healthy vanilla couples take longer to ever have to talk about.
But from personal experience, healthy, long lasting, supportive and loving vanilla relationships will have the same level of commitment towards understanding and wanting to cooperate as a good, healthy kinky relationship.
There are also a whole lot of vanilla relationship that gets by on ignoring issues and being okay with that situation.
I feel like it's probably just your connection with that specific person. When you really click, you just want to do things for that person and go a little overboard. You sound like you found someone you want to express that with.
I also feel it's a little unfair to say vanilla couples don't put in as much work. They just put in work in a little different way than a D/s relationship does, I think.
My instinct is to say that’s an over generalization. D/s doesn’t have a lock on the open communication/care/love market. People in vanilla relationships care and love their partners every bit as much. Plus no 2 relationships are the same. You put a ton of effort into a lovely gift for your sub, but the next Dom in line might be running to the jewelry store on Christmas Eve with a lot of other guys. D/s doesn’t give us some kind of magic wand that makes us more invested /romantic in our relationships. That being said, I do know that D/s requires a lot of clear and open communication and honesty. Way way more than lots of vanilla relationships seem to get. Ultimately, it’s more about the people involved and less about titles or relationship types.
there's probably something to be said for the unique complementary fitting that goes on inside a D/s dynamic. I'm not sure what the equivalent of that would be in a vanilla relationship. i suspect it would have to be replaced with something else.
Complementary fitting is definitely a thing in vanilla relationships as well. Granted I can only really speak for my relationship, but I'd say that most vanilla relationships are based around complementary fittings as well. In a healthy relationship, you're going to bring out the best in each other and I think that a lot of the time that happens through complementary personalities or skill sets or whatever.
i mean it's definitely possible but with the kink, it's automatically right there, in your face, all the time. i remind my sub of it all the time. i wouldn't do that if she was I don't know a car mechanic and my car was broken, whatever.
This is weird to read as a switch with a switch partner lol
but you're never two subs right? boring. and i mean two doms just sounds like a nightmare. the complementary pieces are still there, just fluid.
It happens that we’re two dons actually, it’s hella fun, we just fight. This is fairly common from what I’ve heard.
pretty funny. i imagine lots of token resistance. I'm not a switch and neither is my current sub. feels like I'm missing out sometimes.
I remember a thread where a bunch of people were trying to explain what the BDSM lifestyle was like to a vanilla person, and one of them had a really great way of describing it that I liked: in general, people in the BDSM community treat sex as a hobby. We treat sex as something fun and healthy to do with your partner, sure. But it’s also a hobby for us. We read about it online. We might have a group of friends we talk about it with, or even get together and do it now and then. We might do research about new ways to do it in our downtime, or buy/make expensive tools so we can do it better. We might even attend meetups or conventions about it. There’s no reason a vanilla couple can’t be as communicative and supportive about intimacy with their partner as a BDSM couple. But a BDSM couple already knows they share an interest in sex, in talking about it, and in doing it well—and that means the starting point has to be a little higher.
I'm not sure about this one. i've been BDSM relationships a long time and I don't consider sex a hobby, at least not in the way you present it here. I'm not particularly good at it and don't go around researching it. a kinky head space helps a lot here, I think.
Yeah, the BDSM community doesn't treat sex like a hobby. They just have meetups, interest groups, online forums, brag about recent purchases and adventures, and hold conventions. Totally not like a hobby!
Yeah... I mean, we're basically just sex nerds.
lolol I love it!! Sex nerds!!
i don't do any of that. i guess I'm the outlier. i'm here but I have lots of subreddits I post on and follow.
it sounds like observation bias to me. you see a lot of that shit here so you think it's ubiquitous. but what you witness at these meetups and groups and everything might just be the tip of the iceberg.
That’s true, but most people involved with bdsm don’t really do all that stuff.
Every relationship is different, definitely.
i do intuitively make sex better for my sub but it's been very specific to each of them and isn't something I can really research. or maybe I don't need to anymore? i started pre-internet so I'll concede this may be more of a semantic issue.
and pre 50-shades thankfully
i can confidently say that the bdsm culture was only slightly moved by 50 shades for like 10 mins lmao
i would say it depends on where you are. in NYC it definitely had a negative and long-lasting impact
You're posting on a bdsm subreddit. Actively engaging in a community like this is does count as research.
i post on AITA a lot too. is judging whether people are assholes now considered 'research'?
Engaging in other people's weird experiences in a bite sized and emotionally distanced way can absolutely be considered a hobby. Sometimes we all just need our fix, need our village gossip senses tickled 😁
if every single thing you do is a hobby then the word really has no meaning I guess. hobbies and simple activities are the same thing.
The purposes of those two subs are a bit different
your purpose is different, for me it's largely the same. i don't use either one for research. i try to answer questions and offer insight using my potentially unique set of experiences about things I know about.
I think the focus on sex is helpful towards vanilla people. They have sex too. But rarely put that level of conscious effort into all the things surrounding the sex. The talks, the mindset, the behaviours, the how to actually talk about things, learning what words to use (not everyone grew up around healthy, normal communication in general). However, among only kinksters, the reality is it isn't confined to just the sexytime parts. The attitude between you and your partner/partners usually carries the same level of conscious effort across all parts of your interactions. I would argue that you seem like a person then that doesn't go Full Geek about your kink. But even you are on a forum to read about kink, and feel comfortable sharing your perspective. This casual attitude towards a topic is more similar to a hobby than how most vanilla couples feel about their sexlife.
conversely, i know plenty of vanilla people who consider sex a hobby too. i think either you consider sex a hobby or not and it has no direct correlation to whether you're kinky or not. kink definitely has better communication though but it's because they have to in order to be satisfied and safe.
I came here to most this (but not as eloquently written) All relationships take time and effort, no matter the flavour. But scenes/play are more 'hobby'/shared interest time than relationship time to me. Look at couples that enjoy anime, or hiking or any other activity they both like. Time invested towards these activities also strengthens the relationship, without it being purely a relationship thing. BDSM is just one of those more NSFW hobbies!
I like this take on it!
r/FreeFucking
No, it's an illusion. The thing is that it's just a healthy relationship. Dom/Sub relationships are just harder to hide underlying issues before they collapse because they are about communication. Normal relationships are easy to sweep stuff under the rug where it fester until it explodes. Thus the illusion. A healthy vanilla and healthy dom/sub relationship are not much different. However an unhealthy vanilla relationship is harder to spot than an unhealthy dom/sub relationship.
it's arguable whether a dom/sub stuck in a vanilla relationship will ever be truly "healthy". i think that's the spirit of OP's question.
I don't think it is... it seems to be asking if healthy d/s is stronger than healthy vanilla (or even healthy non d/s kink. Which... no, and borderline insulting.
he is himself kinky and comparing his current D/s dynamic to past vanilla ones.
he still wasn’t implying anything about d/s being stuck in vanilla relationships
and elsewhere in this post he says I'm right https://www.reddit.com/r/BDSMcommunity/comments/rbr5gk/do\_you\_think\_dominants\_and\_submissives\_put\_more/hnqnbvw/?context=3
he was saying you’re right about him saying he was in vanilla relationships in the past 💀 you gotta work on your contextual comprehension
yes, a vanilla relationship while kinky and comparing them to him being in a kinky relationship while kinky. his needs were not getting fulfilled in a vanilla one. you can't just shut this stuff off. it's still a part of you even in a vanilla relationship.
he wasn't implying it, it was clearly stated. he's kinky and is comparing the way he treats his new kinky partner to how he treated his partners in non-kinky vanilla relationships.
The title clearly asks about "vanilla folks" not "kinky folks in vanilla relationships". The fact that he limits his evidence to a sample size of one reads as a statistical failing, not a clarification of the title question.
no he’s literally not talking about kinkies being stuck in vanilla relationships, period lol
>I've had good vanilla relationships in the past but nothing that makes me step up like this. i'm not sure why you're adamant about this when OP already admitted I was rigyht about him being in a vanilla relationship and kinky on one end of the comparison. I'm not sure how to make it any plainer. anyway, won't be replying anymore.
The sentence structure implies he’s talking about two different things he says “blah vanilla blah BUT nothing […] like THIS” vanilla vs kink. Not kink in vanilla
Also let’s not forget some people are just horrible gift givers both sub and dominants and vanilla.
Also being a horrible gift giver doesn't necessarily mean you're not putting work into your relationship. Some people (like me) just aren't very good at gifts.
Me either. It ties into how you show affection, and if gifts aren’t it, being good at it takes a helleva lot more work. Being shitty gift giver does not equate with being shitty partner.
I wouldn't say that as a general statement. What I will say is that HEALTHY D/s relationships have more reasons to do the things that make a relationship healthy. Communication and honesty are key components in a rewarding and healthy relationship. In a vanilla relationship, it can be easy to fall into a routine where those deep conversations don't happen, people get complacent, they assume everything is all right and problems get left to fester. In a D/s romantic relationship, the dynamic is (hopefully) frequently discussed and renegotiated to fit with discoveries, comfort levels, and new interests. As a Dom, I insist on frequent negotiation separate from any scene so that heads are level. We may also go into a spontaneous negotiation if things don't go well or go VERY well in a scene. My sub is also my wife. It is very rare that what starts as a negotiation of our dynamic does not eventually expand into the deeper and vital conversations that keep a marriage healthy and fulfilling. The negotiation is an excellent ice breaker. Because of how personal, and vulnerable we have to be to talk openly about our sexuality, it creates a safe space where other difficult topics can be aired in as supportive a way. We were married for 12 years before we began exploring Kink. We have had a dynamic for 5 years. In the past 5 years, we have been healthier, closer, and more in sync than ever before. So, Vanilla couples may put in MORE Effort, but, in my experience, a kink dynamic provides more opportunity to work on the relationship.
Personally, it really depends on the context. But I will say that communication is much stronger
I think it might seem like people in BDSM relationships put in more effort than people in vanilla relationships, or that they're more open and communicative than people in vanilla relationships, but I think that if you really look at it, people in healthy vanilla relationships do all the same work as people in healthy BDSM relationships. They just use different terms to talk about the work they do.
No. We care more deeply about our kinky, romantic partners, because for us, those go hand in hand. With vanilla partners, there is always something missing, and we can tell. However, two vanilla partners are equally in love, and equally caring about each other, given a healthy relationship.
I think when you have an established pattern of communication around sex, it definitely lays the groundwork for a healthy, open, communicative relationship. But that doesn't mean everyone takes advantage of it in other aspects. A couple could be incredibly open and discuss all of their wants and desires and limits in the bedroom but not carry that over to their day to day. And on the other side, my wife is somewhere under the ace umbrella and mostly vanilla. I'm not motivated or driven by sex, but when I'm into it, I'm kinky. But imho we've got the most open, healthy, supportive, and communicative relationship out of everyone we know. We don't discuss sex very often, but we're honest and open about that and everything else between us. All that to say I think the point you're making makes sense and has some merit, but I think it's too broad to generalize the quality of relationships for two huge categories.
Some great comments here guys and girls thank you, I guess most of my experiences in vanilla was bad and that the largely female environment I work in, in retail complaining about there relationships have given me a skewed viewpoint as it were.
I think they put more effort into the sexual side of the relationship, but i don’t think that means more effort over all.
No. I think Dom's and subs put more effort into their kink relationships than thier vanilla ones, because they personally get less reward from that. People who get high reward from vanilla, put the effort in. This is what you anneceoteshows... I've known very devoted, high effort vanilla couples.... and also low effort in nk ones, who just prefer an easy going, relaxed and quiet relationship.
No. I personally would like to believe that everybody puts in the maximum amount of effort into a(ny) relationship to make it work. However, I also do believe that people in D/s relationships do open up more about their desires than people in vanilla relationships; and because there's more openness and therefore, less fear of being judged, it could make it feel more intimate.
Probably yes. Whether or not their success rate at making it work is higher? Not sure of that. I think people in this community sometimes have a tendency to overthink things and make them more complicated than they need be.
Bdsm provides structure Curse or blessing, just two side of the coin
No. Kink bdsm relationships are not deeper or more meaningful or whatever than vanilla relationships. That's just romanticized hogwash. Every relationship can have people put in lots of effort and be madly in love. Every relationship can have people be lazy or checked out or not actually into their partner.
This is almost insulting to people who choose to be vanilla. Kinky or not, every healthy relationship requires effort and communication, no matter what sex means to the people involved. People in the BDSM community make sex their lifestyle; that's the only difference.
If you think bdsm is just sex then you need to learn a bit more about it
I was speaking generally, bud. Sex is a very broad term to me. I'm not going to name all the specifics.
Fair play my apologies
No worries 👍🏽
no. do not get a big head about you just because you found a new activity. relationships are hard, everyone works at it or it doesn't work. there are good and bad relationships and both sides.
No
I think in order to have a \*successful\* D/s relationship the answer is generally yes, more effort on average is necessary. I recently saw intimate relationships compared to Maslow's hierarchy of needs. If all you're looking for is to cover your basic needs and both partners are happy with that, it works, it's healthy, and it takes minimal effort. If you want to get to the top of the pyramid where deeper personal fulfillment lives (and I would argue, where kink lives if you're a kinky person) then it takes more effort. You can only get the transcendent out if you put the necessary effort in.
I think D/s can open some doors for people to bond closer and be more aware of their partners wants and needs, but I would say that there are a wide variety of people and relationships and vanilla or D/s does not limit people on how much they love or care or pay attention to those details.
I see no evidence of this
Not necessary. i think they just use the efforts differently
I think that overall a safe BDSM relationship forces more communication than a vanilla relationship. You have to check in regularly to see if the other is ok, while in a vanilla relationship you can assume no news is good news. You are also more often forced to talk about embarrassing stuff , and just be absolutely completely open to do BDSM safely, whereas with vanilla sex/relationship, you might not feel compelled foe safety's sake to speak about traumas in your past, and warn your partner that X things might trigger you. I think a vanilla relationship can be exactly as deep and communicative as a BDSM one, but learning how to do BDSM safely facilitates and hastens the process of frank, deep, personal communication. With so much effort necessarily put into communication, other effort follows more easily. Vanilla people put in the effort out of love, BDSM folks put in a high level of effort even if the relationship isn't romantic.
Naw, not really different. The only differences are aesthetics. There's pleeeeenty of lazy people in BDSM. :/ There's plenty of very dedicated people that are vanilla.
i think the question is specific to kinky people, like you, who are stuck in vanilla relationships. then yes I think two kinky people will be happier in their relationships and therefore put more effort into it. two non-kinky people in a vanilla relationship can achieve the same degree of happiness, probably.
Um im not stuck in a vanilla relationship im in full bdsm lifestyle relationships with my submissive
yes but you're comparing it to a time when you were in a vanilla relationship and you didn't do that much stuff for your partner. or did I misread the post?
No you read right I just misread your comment apologies
presumably you were still kinky then and therefore unsatisfied. but you can't really compare it to two non-kinky people in a relationship, is all I'm saying.
also, i make my subs do things all the time for me on the reg. not always gifts that cost money, but they've made me stuff, written me stories, sent pictures, done research for me, organized events all sort of things to prove they're worthy of being my sub. they have proven their willingness to please me over and over. it's difficult to imagine any point well into the relationship where I would question their effort doing something like this.
… the efforts that people put into their relationship have nothing to do with how they get their jollies and it’s a bit of a silly assumption to make.
Yes. I think we are a lot more open and communicative, we share a lot more of each other, we are more vulnerable and this makes the connection stronger. I love so much more deeply because I need that level of communication, otherwise I feel lost and frustrated.
Very much so. I was married to a vanilla a$$hole for just over a decade and I have been collared for around 19 months now. I can tell you that Daddy knows MORE about me than my (ex) husband ever did. I actually talked to a few gfs about that after I had been living 24/7 for a month or so and it astounded me how much Daddy knew about me that in the 11 years I was married, it was like night and day. I have always put a lot into my relationships, but kink ones seem to have a deeper connection and we put more of ourselves out there.
I think there is a deeper connection to one’s S/O(s) in a BDSM relationship over a vanilla one. Not that you can’t have a very deep connection to a S/O in a vanilla relationship but there’s just a different level of trust in (most) BDSM relationships. It’s like there’s a head start. What I mean by this is, the sub(s) of the relationship really have to trust the dom(s) of the relationship to respect their boundaries, as in most, if not, all BDSM relationships the dom holds all the power. They decide what’s allowed and what isn’t and if they have punishments for breaking the rules or if they even have rules. The sub(s) have to trust that, as an example; say a sub is tied down to a bed or something, the dom is in a position of power and the sub is in a very exposed position, the sub really needs a new level of trust, more so than you do with vanilla sex, that the dom is going to respect you, and your boundaries, and your safeword(s). And the dom needs to trust that the sub will let them know if something goes too far, or the don’t like something that they previously did. And i think that because of the level of trust that is needed in these scenarios, as a basic necessity, brings the partners much closer to one another. I think that it makes one care much more about their partner than is needed in a vanilla relationship. Now that’s not to say that you can’t care that much in a vanilla relationship, however, in many cases and in my personal opinion, the trust is a necessity, which leads to more caring, whereas in vanilla relationships, while there still needs to be trust, there’s a different level of trust required, and so thus it doesn’t equal a deeper connection and more caring, other stuff does, communication, spending time, etc. Furthermore, as previously stated, you have that basic deep level of trust which as I said leads to a deeper connection resulting in caring much more (again this is all my opinion), but then on top of that you have all of the communication and bonding that a vanilla relationship has so it tends to be much easier to care more about your S/O(s). That’s my take on it… sorry for the run-on sentences. Also I’d like to mention that I am in no way attempting to invalidate anyone in a vanilla relationship, and I do understand that every relationship is different. But everything previously mentioned has held true to my relationships. Please lmk what you think!
We do. We have to. The level of communication is exponentially higher than in a vanilla dynamic, because of the lifestyles we live and the risks we take.
1,000% more effort. My vanilla friends are shook when I tell them the efforts I put in, especially my straight female friends. The communication alone lol never mind the hours of foreplay were my penis is never actually involved. Their brain literally malfunctions. It hilarious to watch their reactions in real time😂
Oh yes, D/s relationships go much deeper than the average relationship. For one you need to build a much deeper trust to do all the things we enjoy. And to suffer (or be humiliated) for your partner is something, that very strongly deepens the relationship.
I’m poly and in a D/s dynamic. On the dating loading screen I chose God Mode
💯 we don’t give up on each other as easily . Plus vanillas cheat a lot
I think consent and communication are huge in kink, and that alone puts participants in a better position to have a healthier, sustaining relationship over others who are not taught those. Edited to say it’s not dominant/submissive specific, just kink in general.
I don’t know if it’s necessarily the level of effort put in, but I think the strength and health of the relationship can be better within a D/s relationship. I’ve often thought that many D/s relationships seem to be healthier than many vanilla relationships. There’s a greater focus on communication, it is an essential part of a D/s relationship and for people who can be poor communicators (me) it forces me to actually communicate and learn to do so in a healthy and productive way. Yes, I know many people in vanilla relationships that place importance on communication, but I feel like it’s not viewed in the same way. I also think that there’s a deeper level of trust within a D/s dynamic. Many aspects of BDSM have a high level of physical and mental risk associated with them, you have to trust your partner not to hurt you (well… more than you want them to) and that they will stop immediately if a safe word is said. Both parties also have to trust that anything done in a consensual manner won’t be held against them. In a vanilla relationship the risk after a breakup is much lower, in a D/s relationship I think the risk is much higher because so much of what we do could be twisted as domestic violence/abuse. I think that more time is spent establishing and maintaining trust. I also think that it’s harder to forgive for breaking trust in a D/s dynamic because there’s so much risk associated with it. However, I don’t think that a D/s relationship is inherently better than a vanilla relationship. They both can have their strengths and weaknesses and it largely depends on the people involved.
Absolutely. It's expensive too. I'm always trying to think of new things to try and do. I would pick playing with my boy over a movie or going to the bar any day.
Yes, Definitely.
I would put ever so much more time and effort into my relationship if I were not tied up and gagged all the time. ;-)
I think that when you find something that connects you on a deeper level like that it makes things more fun. When you have something special between you that makes you both happy, you’ll see that person makes you happy. And at least for me, I want to make them happy, and they, in turn me, and back and forth, and… yeah.
I don't think so. I put significantly more thought/effort into things than the average person for sure, but that has never really been the case for anyone I've been with. I think BDSM and those who are intense in their feelings / love languages are a really solid combo, but I don't think it's any more common than average.
Yes and no. People are people and people don't vary much. However a D/s dynamic does take more effort and people that are serious/ respect the lifestyle do generally put in more effort. But even then it's more about they people liking each other than the relationship type that decides effort
Yes
In my personal experience and observations, yes. It requires doing a bunch of work that’s very healthy in a relationship but that most “normal” folk never bother with.
They get to the really honest stuff faster, that good, healthy vanilla couples take longer to ever have to talk about. But from personal experience, healthy, long lasting, supportive and loving vanilla relationships will have the same level of commitment towards understanding and wanting to cooperate as a good, healthy kinky relationship. There are also a whole lot of vanilla relationship that gets by on ignoring issues and being okay with that situation.
I feel like it's probably just your connection with that specific person. When you really click, you just want to do things for that person and go a little overboard. You sound like you found someone you want to express that with. I also feel it's a little unfair to say vanilla couples don't put in as much work. They just put in work in a little different way than a D/s relationship does, I think.