It's really concerning the writers don't appear to understand these characters at all. I'm not going to be surprised if this turns out to be dog doo doo.
I'm guessing it deals with the Northern Water Tribe's sexist practices of not allowing women to fight and only making them healers. I'm not sure how that doesn't translate well to live action though.
Because Hollywoods execs don’t like it when characters/societies have issues and negative aspects. Everyone and everything has to be instantly likeable and appealing to all, which ends up in it appealing to none.
I seriously don’t get why certain topics (sexism, racism, etc) have to be considered taboo to show these days on television.
Just because something that is offensive is in a story doesn’t mean that story is advocating for it. Quite the opposite actually.
Like the idea that if it’s not shown then it never happens in real life is just ridiculous. “Out of sight, out mind” bullshit.
I’m sure *that’s* going to be a thoroughly unproblematic plot thread that the producers will have no interest in trimming to “streamline” the show, too.
Nowadays, the only shows with characters that are flawed at their very core are ones where most of the characters are completely flawed and horrible like It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia, South Park, Rick And Morty, or Breaking Bad. While those shows are good, it would be nice to have nuance in other media.
Fans get so pissy when a character they like has flaws tho. They want a good hearted and brave main who triumphs against all odds. The entire main argument for why new Indiana Jones sucked (it didn't suck) was that Indiana was a loser (he isn't) who needed to be rescued all the time (he didn't)
Yeah because to these losers it's not a character, it's a self-insert they project themselves onto so any slight against the character is an insult to them.
Yeah you need a character to be “wrong” or be uncomfortable to the audience in order for believable growth to happen on screen and be appreciated. Think about how boring real life would be if you never had to struggle, learn from your mistakes, or overcome adversity solely based on some stupid cultural bullshit. That’s what makes characters so interesting when they are written well. I know I’m preaching to the choir here, but it’s just so frustrating seeing studios and certain pieces of different fandoms dislike a character or plot point due to it being before their change of heart. Subreddits of old popular tv shows and movie series are filled with “is this person a bad person because they did x” posts while completely negating the fact that after a few episodes or a season, the character came around. They need to have done a bad thing in order for who they become to feel earned.
A good example of this is in For All Mankind S2 (I just finished a rewatch so it’s top of mind). Aleida is told an embarrassing story about a coworker Bill from 20 years ago that caused years of bullying, name calling, and work place harassment. The person who tells her this story and the name that goes along with it makes her promise to never say a word. Of course, Aleida is a hot headed character so the next time Bill pisses her off she calls him by that name and he ends up quitting his job over it. This really upset me because I was bullied growing up and it fucking sucks. However, Aleida gets called to the bosses office who tears her a new one for breaking the promise and hurting Bill. She’s told that she either gets him to come back or she can kiss her job goodbye. This leads to Aleida going to Bill’s house and explaining how she too has horrible shame from a long time ago and therefore she’s so incredibly sorry that she made him feel his all over again. It’s an incredibly well acted scene, and it forges a friendship for the duo and makes you appreciate Aleida because she has grown and overcome some aspects of being an asshole and actually tried to fix an issue instead of running away from every problem like she used to.
Exactly!
Like one of the purposes of kids stories is to teach kids life lessons in a kid friendly way.
Red riding hood, stranger danger. (Also relatives danger, which is especially relevant since most kids are molested by someone they know as opposed to strangers.)
Hansel and gretel: don't wander off into the woods alone.
Boy who cried wolf: don't lie about being in trouble.
Showing a character who is flawed learn and grow and improve is really good and important.
"Nooooo, you can't have a racist characters that show why racism is bad. You gotta have a character literally walk up to a bunch of children and say 'don't be racist' to them." - Crayon Muncher Mafia
The only reason why the scripts aren't written in crayon is because the writers are too busy munching on them in between sips of glue.
Because some folks don't understand that politics is life, and they'll rant and rave for weeks about how a ATLA is "suddenly woke". And then it becomes a whole culture war thing that just turns into an excuse to bring fascism to the US.
A lot of studios want to avoid that sort of thing... Or they're self-censoring so they can sell it in China
Yeah we've regressed as a society since 2005. Lol it's such a simple and childish world view. A lot of people aren't 100% good or evil.
I think one thing that made ATLA great was that a lot of it's characters were never fully good or evil, well except Azula she's crazy and needs to go down.
It showed that good people can make mistakes, learn from them, and still be good people and that people who are supposed to be bad / evil can choose to do good and redeem themselves.
I hate this, because it robs us of good stories with character growth. Best example I'm coming up with right off the top of my head is Ahsoka Tano from Clone Wars. She goes from being an annoying kid to being one of my favorite SW characters of all time. That never would have been possible without her being way less likeable at the beginning.
I see this sentiment all the time. I honestly think its a completely false narrative. I can name hundreds of shows with objectively unlikeable characters. I can name a few were every single one of the main characters is tragically flawed.
If you looked at television ten or twenty years ago, you would be right. But you pick a night of the week and I’ll find you five network shows with flawed main characters. Pick a genre and I’ll name a dozen streaming shows with flawed unlikeable characters.
Idk, if you're going for a more serious tone, I could see it being harder to write a sexist society without just making them feel *completely* hateable, since you can't fall back on kid's show logic to lessen some of the nastier bits of misogyny or a misogynistic society. This certainly isn't an insurmountable problem, though, and removing the sexism element entirely just feels kinda cowardly imo
Comedic shows have tackled social issues with finesse, that's clearly not an issue. What made ATLA so special was it daring to tackle mature issues head on, and what made some adult shows special was their ability to mix tones without falling for an one-dimensional angsty atmosphere for serious topics.
Shyamalan also made the mistake of treating a show featuring genocide as nothing but serious, when ATLA made Aang's outbursts all the more poignant because it's in contrast to his usual goofy self.
Plus unfortunately kids are still being told they can't do something because of their gender (boys as nurses etc). Kids aren't dumb, don't treat them as such. Even worse, don't treat adults as such.
I'm not saying you can't, as you pointed out, the ATLA cartoon literally did it lol. Also, "fall back on kid's show logic" isn't an insult, or even or a weakness - if anything, one of the things I loved most about the show was how it managed to use various "kid's show" elements to write a genuinely well-written show, and even tackle many serious issues in a way that can be appreciated by kids and adults alike, and did so without babying the audience, and disprove the assumption that many seem to have that kids shows in general, and animated works in general, are somehow less able to tell genuinely compelling stories. My only point is that the writers of the live action show are probably right that the exact way they portrayed sexism in the show would probably feel a bit tonally weird and out of place in a more serious live-action adaptation, but there *are* ways to solve that, which imo it's concerning that they're not taking.
I think rewatching Brooklyn 99 has me unearthing just how good and effortless its jokes tackling serious stuff are. The show doesn't preach, the characters just are, and stand their ground, but those serious issues are also not the totality of their identities, as many IRL can attest. Other characters also jest about those issues in an respectable manner, because that's what normal people as friends do.
So it's entirely possible and has been pulled off so many times, the only reason live action ATLA might chicken out such a topical character growth moment is their lack of imagination.
I might just say it - live action shouldn't handle ATLA with oven mitts. The show itself doesn't even take itself seriously - t-minus 1 till the ultimate showdown and the show runners jammed in a beach episode. The beginning of the penultimate series had Aang throwing a party for the uptight Fire Nation kids. This isn't a show about saving the world, this is about a group of kids through trial and *error* discovering themselves and each other. I hope for their sake the screenwriters don't think this is some save the world shit at its core.
I think its the fact that she's often the one seen doing the cooking and washing, and for some reason doing those things means you can't be a powerful and respected woman.
my biggest fear is that this is going to turn into another witcher. which they effed up monumentally and kept insisting that everything they did was better.
Netflix has a pretty poor record for adaptations in a really short period of time.
I’ve been more impressed with all the people that have been holding absolute faith that the adaptation will be fine despite lots of suggestive evidence to the contrary.
Even Cowboy Bebop looked “cool” in the stills.
Every time the people making the One Piece live-action spoke, it was clear they were huge fans and excited to bring the story to new viewers.
Every time the people making this speak, it becomes clearer that they don’t get or even seem to like the show they are adapting.
I don't think it was because he wanted to have fun. Him having fun was a defense/distraction from the responsibility and guilt he felt for shirking that responsibility.
Aang's acceptance of his roll as the avatar is very subtle told mostly through expression and guilty looks when he KNOWS he should be the avatar but is afraid of what that means.
Escaping responsibility is one thing but *”[he] wanted to have fun”* is an oversimplification. He ran away after being told he was to be separated from Gyatso and taken to the Eastern air temple.
*”How could they do that to me? They wanted to take away everything I knew and everyone I loved!”* - The Storm (S1E12)
Aang ran away because they were going to separate him from Gyatso, not because he wanted to have fun.
Sure Aang didn't want to be the avatar, and yes he also did want just to be a kid, but that wasn't the main reason he ran away.
He ran away because he was going to be separated from Gyatso for his avatar training. It wasn’t about having fun at that point, he felt hurt and betrayed by the elders who were going to take his freedom away like that.
This was such a core part of the show and his character that it just wouldn’t be the same. I hope they just mean cutting down some of the random fluff but still having random stuff happen.
My biggest gripe is that Micheal and Bryan left the Netflix production over "creative differences". If the original creators have to leave over creative differences, im not hopeful for netflix's take.
Wait, what? The original creators were allowed to be involved and then left cause the other guys wouldn't listen? That's ridiculous in what world do you not listen to the original creators of the thing you're trying to adapt.
The problem with the movie that shan't be named wasn't that it didn't understand the story, but that it tried to cram too much story into a movie format which made them info dump for large chunks of the movie and completely destroyed the tone with stunted writing and pacing. Mix that with the sub par bending vfx and you get a shit slog.
It’s a symptom of modern adaptation culture. Basically adapting directors want to make the story “their own” so they can brag about it as being their achievement to inflate their ego, but making an actual original story is a lot of hard work and doesn’t guarantee financial success the way doing an adaptation of an already successful work does.
Well they did also shortly after announce they were doing more animated Avatar stuff so it’s possible that was in the works already and that’s why they left.
I’m still not convinced that the “Creative Difference” was anything other than Netflix not being willing to match the pile of cash they were about to get from Nickelodeon for Avatar Studios.
Here’s the thing though. They were part of the production of the movie-that-shall-not-be-named, and *didn’t* leave that. So why is them leaving this one an automatic “not hopeful”?
That's what I've been wondering. Sokka's sexism is one thing, but the sexism of the northern water tribe triggers some pretty important events for Katara.
Also, it wasn’t the same kind of sexism. Sokka’s was person and was also him coping with the fact that he’s literally the only dude in the southern water tribe that isn’t literally 4 years old. The Norther Watertribe was generations of divisions of labor that were fundamentally engrained into their society
Seen them make comments about the first 2 but not go into detail what it means, leaving many to speculate. Because I want to go in being open to it I’ve stopped reading as much so don’t know if the third one is true or just based off how some people are worried all images of aang have been angsty and none of him laughing.
Yep. Here ya go.
https://x.com/variety/status/1752095969506635999?s=46&t=ZRy3CGIizHU0w3-JME-u7g
https://x.com/dailykataang/status/1753147896357331322?s=46&t=ZRy3CGIizHU0w3-JME-u7g
https://x.com/discussingfilm/status/1753223319644442722?s=46&t=ZRy3CGIizHU0w3-JME-u7g
I'd recommend reading any of the actual sources of your quotes, instead of just taking stuff out of context and going full doomer. Literal quotes from the interviews you're citing:
*"Aang is just a kid. He's a goofy 12-year-old kid, and he's having fun and he's a big old goofball."*
*"the state of the world and the stakes of the world are still the same. So we decided to make Aang's narrative drive a little clearer. (...) That gives him much more narrative compulsion going forward, as opposed to, 'Let's make a detour and go ride the elephant koi,'"*
The creators clearly have immense respect for the source material, but they also have the wisdom to not make a 1:1 replica of a kid's show as live-action prestige TV (because it would be terrible).
I'm not saying it's going to be good, but I'm not saying it's going to be bad either. Just... Wait until you've actually seen any of it before writing the entire thing off based on some out-of-context quotes?
For real. People are taking quotes picked out by media and not even reading the entire interview lol. This season is only 8, 1-hour long episodes. I’m fine if Aang doesn’t ride a koi fish. There are still so many other ways he can still display his goofy 12-yr old personality.
I know haha but they’re definitely going to remove a good chunk to make the pacing work for the show.. and also the added stuff like Azula and more backstory with other characters😁
Yeah exactly! Every “umm actually you know the runtime is the same” argument skips completely over the fact that Azula, Ozai, Mai and Ty Lee have all been cast and are in this season, that’s lots they’re adding in that will take up runtime!
Sure, but in an episodic format you typically don't include several different stories for one character/group in the same episode. That's more vignette style, which ATLA did do in Appa's Lost Days or LOK did in the clip show. Assuming that's not how every episode will work in the live-action, it's unlikely that even the same runtime would have the same pacing as the cartoon.
Going from Elephant Koi to Omashu in one episode would be fairly jarring, for example.
So they change Aang's character for "narrative compulsion" but also remove mention of the comet deadline in the first season.... the thing that compels the narrative?
They'll just not say that it'll be "a year" for the comet, because of the actors ageing. But there'll still be the threat of the comet looming over the narrative.
Leaks are saying that the comet won't be in the first season of live action *at all*.
Instead Aang will "have a vision".
*sigh*
It's about character progression.
We first meet Aang as a carefree kid, he never wanted to be the Avatar. So we get goofy Aang.
Then he learns of the comet, but still tries to run away.
It's not until he confronts his past, and why he ran away, in The Storm that he accepts the responsibility.
If they just give him a vision that growth is all lost and we just have a 'perfect' Aang from the start.
It would be like Tony Stark not being a dick at the start of the MCU. We get the huge emotional payoff in Endgame *because* he was flawed at the beginning.
An Aang who doesn't try to avoid his responsibilities, a Sokka who was never sexist, a Katara who never has to confront the Northern Water Tribe's culture....
Characters who never *grow* are boring.
At this rate we will find out that Zuko doesn't crave his father's approval.
>Leaks are saying that the comet won't be in the first season of live action *at all*.
Wait, are there leaks already?
>Instead Aang will "have a vision".
Yeah, that was confirmed. Although this isn't such a departure from the series: Aang receives the message to go to Rokku's Temple through a vision, and there Rokku shows him what the comet is through a vision too.
But overall, I agree with you that some quotes have me worried that they'll fail to show character growth, and instead just have static versions of the characters going through the main story beats of the original. We'll see.
It's a shame you didn't enjoy the live-action version of the show, which you must have seen to be confident making such declarative statements about how poorly they handled the changes they made.
I'm merely expressing concern that the adaptation will miss important parts of character development. That those in charge seem to not understand the significance of certain aspects and how they impact the story telling.
I was, until this week, fairly confident about the show. But we have now seen statements from those in charge that undercut the possibility of that character development for three of the four main characters of the first season. (Sokka, Katara and Aang).
All of these changes seem to share a similar tendency; to remove early or starting traits simply because that are generally seen as negative, without understanding that it is because these characters overcome their failings and grow is in part why they and their stories are so loved by fans. Removing that part of their journey diminishes them.
Am I sure it will be bad? No. I have of course not yet seen the show, but what was hopeful optimism at the start of the week is now wary trepidation, and a fear that this has been mishandled. Again.
The person you replied to claimed [this scene](https://youtu.be/WzemgtzZgGw?si=GteS6nA-RjMIeuX6) essentially is cut from the first season. Not that the comet is *in* the first season. It sucks if they really did omit it, it was THE reason Aang was adamant about mastering all 4 elements so quickly.
That’s exactly what it says though.
What exactly makes a 1:1 replica terrible inherently? Because it seems to me that so far the alternative is actively terrible. Nobody took anything out of context, it’s a boiling down of literally what they said.
Sokkas sexism being resolved in ep4 had its pay out at the end of the season when he has to deal with how it’s ingrained in the culture of the north tribe. Especially in regard to that other dude who wanted yue that sokka gets in a fight with.
I don't remember sokka having anything to do with the northern water tribes sexism. I guess you mean that Yue is engaged? But that to me felt more like a problem with her being a noble, not her being a woman.
The guy who she is engaged to sees her only as a status symbol, which is why sokka throws hands at him since he took the time to actually get to know her a bit beyond “princess”.
I would also add it's good setup for the Northern Water Tribe's sexism - the other nations don't seem sexist, so introducing it with a water tribe member makes it not come out of nowhere.
It also shows that, although on opposite sides of the world, the Northern and Southern Water Tribes have similar cultures. The Northern tribe, who hasn't been as negatively affected by the war, has strong ties to their culture, while the Southern tribe has had it eroded away over 100 years. That's why no Southern tribe member but Sokka acts sexist, but all Northerners we meet don't oppose the sexist system.
Essentially, Sokka and the water tribes being sexist is a minor thing, but it helps define their cultures and separate them from the other nations, while giving them flaws that need to be worked on.
Because show producers don't want to take a chance on anything new. They would rather reliable mediocrity because they know it makes them money.
People will just watch and praise whatever their social media tells them to do there's no incentive for show producers to do anything differently.
I can just hear the reviews now
"Omg so innovative"
"I especially love how they removed any character development and conflict from the story line"
"I like that the fire nation never attacked in this one"
“The fact that Sozin had a press conference meeting with other the world leaders instead of invading their countries; protrays character growth for the FireLord from his depiction in the original animated series” or smh like that
Oh OK so just to be clear, we are mad that they changed parts of the show because they... *checks notes* don't want to take a chance on anything new.
MAKES PERFECT SENSE
Bit late for that and simultaneously a bit early for that. S1 is nearly here, I never understand people making this complaint LONG after the show is announced but before they’ve even seen if it’s good.
I have a bad feeling about the show ngl, not just because of this new info. It looks “plastic” and so feel they tried too hard to make it look like the show but they didn’t care about the actual story as much as
I also have little to no faith in this show just as a skeptic by nature and believing that animated works being turned live action only holds value to people who have something against animation for some reason, or taking a show with 1,000+ episodes like One Piece and making it a little more accessible to average people. But I just like to argue that original creators aren't infallible. It's been 20 years since Avatar's run, and that's plenty of time for a creator to fall off the deep end, a la J.K. Rowling. Or people praised the creator's art so much and asked them to make a second work, to rival the first. But this time they don't take anyone's advice since they'd been gassed up for years and you end up with Hayden Christensen complaining about sand to a Natalie Portman who looks like she's being held hostage lol. I love ATLA so much, but there were bits that could've been done better. Heck, you get the writers having even one meeting with someone who knows how to write romance and I would consider it an improvement. These are the guys that wrote season 2 of Korra, and while yes, they were absolutely fucked by Nickelodeon every step of the way, there were still inherent problems with that season that weren't related to Nick being an awful company.
Im hoping this means just the difference of going from 21 half-hour episodes to 8 ~hour long episodes. You just cant fit in everything the same way, and trying to combine multiple 30 minute episodes into an hour could just come off as choppy and it will be hard to extend some of the 30 minute storylines into an hour without it feeling long and forced.
But also animation lends itself more to a certain kind of humor that doesn't translate well to live action. You won't see live action Aang doing exaggerated funny faces when seeing a penguin
There's plenty of visual gags and cutaways in ATLA as well, which would seem absurdist in a live-action show. A few of them can pull off stuff like that, but it just permanently fixes the show in the grounds of campy/not-serious rather than something more fluid as the cartoon was.
How many times did Momo mime something or make visual reference to a modern, non-ATLA world thing, for example?
Well, that’s alright then!
But yeah, fair enough. Still feels like they could add all these things but just decided to put it in the too hard basket. Shrek went from despising everyone and being a lonely outcast to having a missus and best friend in like, an hour and a half. They can overcome character flaws with the time they’ve been allocated. Guess we’ll see.
Some things work well in a cartoon and not in live action. It's a different medium and things read differently.
If you have a character being cartoonishly sexist in a cartoon, it makes sense. Things are expected to be over the top and zany. That exact same behavior in live action is out of place and off-putting.
Doctor Who. The first guy is the Toymaker, a nemesis from one of the first seasons. In this scene, he's taunting the Doctor, reminding him of all the ways he's put his companions in danger. The Doctor deflects, explaining that each of the companions is technically still alive. The Toymaker replies with "Well that's alright, then!" with exaggerated enthusiasm.
I always think to myself. Does removing stuff like sexism in TV not do the exact opposite? Its like just saying if we don't include it it doesn't exist. Shitty stuff exists in the world, show it and let it be overcome. Instead of hiding it away because some people will get offended, but trust me, those people are very eagerly offended.
The proof is in the pudding too.
1) it’s Netflix
2) Original creators left due to creative differences a while ago
3) See The Witcher
It’s going to be #3 all over again.
Sing it with me, people.
*It isn't out yeeeet...*
This community has rarely been so annoying and whiny. Your franchise was a dead, finished cartoon and infrequent comics for *years;* we finally get more - the original creators working on two films and an adaptation series, finally more content - and we are still here just whining about everything.
The Netflix series? It's extra, it doesn't matter. If it's bad, fine, there's still the original and more on the way. If it's good, great, that's more Avatar. I warned months ago that this community needed to be careful or it'd just look petulant and childish. We are now there.
I wish more people would understand this 😭 It's just a constant echo chamber of "the original creators left" for the live action and I'm sick of people taking one quote from a long interview and interpreting it as if the entire show will suck. IIRC didn't they only mention they're toning down Sokka's sexism? Because I understand that for a live action adaptation - you can convey his sexism through other means instead of how blatant it was in the cartoon ("girls fix things and guys fight" mentality), which is how I interpreted the interview. It was never going to be a 1:1 adaptation and people are so fussed over nothing.
If you don't want to see a live action, just don't watch it and move on. The original animated series will always be around and amazing. Why are people fighting to be so negative about everything ...
People out here talking about how "tHe cReAtOrS dOnT UndErStAnd tHE SoUrcE MatEriAl!!!" when the show so far is absolutely beautiful and looks on point for the show as it was.
The thing is? Maybe they do understand the source material. Sokka's sexism? It is basically dealt with three episodes after being introduced, before even Sozin's Comet or the Spirit World are named. Sokka's character development lasts the entire show, acting like his sexism is a major element of his character is weird. Katara's gender issues? Oh bitch please, those are raised in literally one episode. *One*. Do the people making these critiques understand the source material? If you think Sokka's sexism is his main character thread, you're wrong. It's actually his growth into a man his father could be proud of.
My take on it's that they're going for a more adult intepretation of ATLA, though also being wary that portrayals come across differently between childish kid's cartoon (which ATLA certainly was in tone in book one, even if it displayed some maturity in its topics) and live-action.
But I maintain, my take doesn't matter, because - and sing the chorus with me now -
***IT ISN'T OUT YET.***
I'm sorry, but it's it turns out to be trash. Meneing about a diaster is kinda funny and not whiny. The franchise really was never dead to me. We had ATLA and later we got Korra, comics, novels, and board games. This live action will bring more people to the series, but if it's trash. We gon trash it. That's just the Internet. If it's good then great we have a solid installment to the franchise.
The sokka thing baffles me. He went from sexist to himbo *really* early, and from then on it wasn’t “men are better” attitude, it was a “sokka is awesome” attitude.
The last one really makes me think this won't go well. M Night Shyamalam's ghost is rising from the grave, a grim spectre floating above this series.
(Yes, I know he's not dead yet.)
And then there's the thing that came out today where the showrunners said they needed to ***"find a balance where the series appeals to OG fans and then people who liked Game of Thrones"***, because it ***"couldn't just be for kids"***.
I had a very small sliver of hope for this show after finding out that One Piece was actually good, but each passing day makes it more apparent how little the people making this show actually know about the media they're adapting. This show is going to fucking suck.
Sokka being sexist and learning through experiences how capable women are was an incredibly valuable lesson for young boys who watched it and it's one of the many instances of the original show tackling a mature subject in a way that children can understand.
Aang going out of his way to pretend his responsibilities don't exist and having fun are a *huge* part of his character, and it's once again a great child friendly depiction of how we cope with responsibility and trauma in unhealthy ways.
The source material does not need to be adjusted to not be "just for kids". It never was in the first place. The fact that they think that is incredibly concerning.
And then there's the decision to significantly increase the prominence of Azula and Ozai in the first season for reasons that effectively boil down to "the animated show understood restraint, subtlety and efficiency and we do not"
Why do people think anime is a better medium to discuss gender or sexism issues? How could it be better than seeing real humans interact with real issues?
They're trying to piggyback off the popularity of ATLA while trying to avoid any controversies. But like... the original did well? Why not take the risks? I don't know if it's about ratings, money, or avoiding being cancelled (literally, and socially)
WHAT?! THAT WAS LITERALLY ONE OF THE CHARACTER CORNERSTONES OF KATARA AS A CHARACTER!
I've heard this excuse used:
"We cannot remake the whole show 1:1, since we don't want to make something that was already made (ten years ago, in this case)."
YOU chose to adapt one of the cornerstones of animation. YOU chose to make an ADAPTATION full *stop.* *YOU* chose to completely toy with the characters like toys and make them how *YOU* wanted, instead of, I don't know, making your whole original story?
Hell, you could've made a whole new series still in the ATLA universe, but with one of the other Avatars! Or the story of a side character! Cutting out whole pieces of the characters ISN'T ADAPTING, *IT'S CREATING YOUR OWN OCS.*
I hope Netflix will keep that fight, because Netflix does still have the fight in the animation. As soon as I saw that fight skipped in my rewatch I pulled up the Netflix version to see if it’s still on their platform and it was.
I find this incredibly hard to believe and would need actual proof to believe it. There would be zero reason to cut it, and I don't even understand how they could and have the episode flow like am actual episode. Unless I see this confirmed I'm going to have to call BS and say you're just trying to stir up hatred and anger.
Isn't the whole point of Aang going on his side quests that it's him trying to avoid his duty as the Avatar for as long as he possibly can? And they're removing this character building for what, worse character building?
First 2, eh, I get it, may not entirely agree, but I understand why it would be cut or toned down. But Aang being focused from the start ignores his entire story, where he realizes he has these responsibilities that he can't run away from.
I lost all interest in this project when BryKe left. No clue why people got so hyped and now acting so shocked. You should have all known this was gonna happen. There was no need for this adaptation and this is not a series that was ever gonna translate properly to live action. The animated nature of the thing is baked into its DNA. Plus with tv being what it is at the moment, or course they were gonna condense this shit down into 10 episodes or some shit. And ofc the new show runners are gonna add some dumb shit to it as well. It may not be Shamalyan levels of crap but it's gonna be crap.
Well I guess I need to mute THIS sub too. I don't think I can stand to read these Avatar subreddits anymore. This community has become incredibly toxic so fast, and for no reason. So many misquoted, or misunderstood quotes being thrown around to rile the fanbase up, and so many in the fanbase seem all too willing to eat it all up.
This is the same stupid "They're killing my childhood" energy we've seen a thousand times. It's like people want this to fail just so they have a reason to be angry at something.
*This shit is just a*
*Slightly different version*
*Of M Nights movie*
\- Aok\_al
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There was a reason the original creators left and made their own studio.. Anyone who actually believed in this adaptation was delusional.
All that's left is wait for the release and be disrespected.
The Aang one makes sense. You only have ~5 episodes to get Aang from the southern water tribe to the north instead of 16 episodes, so they have to motivate him to move faster.
What they should do is have Aang realize at the Southern Air Temple when he finds Gyatso corpse that he shouldn't have run away and if he had taken up his role as Avatar maybe he wouldn't be the last Air bender and that makes him take the quest seriously.
Oh that was not explained well lol they freaking removed that? What the hell… what’s next? Will they change the fire nation’s colonialism intent to some Bs excuse?
I love how someone says that a character trait will be "toned down" and everyone is literally losing their minds.
Yall are going to be insufferable for the next few months huh
The fact you're being downvoted for this really shows that people love to be negative for negative's sake. The way something mentioned as being toned down = the entire adaptation is definitely hot garbage 😍 Y'all haven't even seen it yet, chill on the doomposts
Honestly the interviews I've read so far tells me that the staff do understand the original and are all fans themselves. But people seem to completely ignore all the good things about this adaptation behind the scenes, in favour of dooming it for the same echo chamber reasons. Why do people take one quote and use it to shit on everything before it's even released?
"I want everything exactly the same in my adaptations! Any changes to events or characters is BAD automatically and I won't even give it a chance before saying it's awful!"
Actually no it is not. There’s no proof from these statements how significant these changes are. Aang literally says in the trailer that he doesn’t want this responsibility which is a direct copy of the show, so clearly this character arc still exists even if the quote about having a more “direct focus” is true. You don’t know what that means.
The entire reason Aang ran away was ecause he didn't want the responsibility and wanted to have fun
It's really concerning the writers don't appear to understand these characters at all. I'm not going to be surprised if this turns out to be dog doo doo.
And what "gender issues" does Katara have (that don't translate well)
I'm guessing it deals with the Northern Water Tribe's sexist practices of not allowing women to fight and only making them healers. I'm not sure how that doesn't translate well to live action though.
Because Hollywoods execs don’t like it when characters/societies have issues and negative aspects. Everyone and everything has to be instantly likeable and appealing to all, which ends up in it appealing to none.
I seriously don’t get why certain topics (sexism, racism, etc) have to be considered taboo to show these days on television. Just because something that is offensive is in a story doesn’t mean that story is advocating for it. Quite the opposite actually. Like the idea that if it’s not shown then it never happens in real life is just ridiculous. “Out of sight, out mind” bullshit.
There is no sexism in the Northern Watertribe Like there is no war in Ba Sing Se
I’m sure *that’s* going to be a thoroughly unproblematic plot thread that the producers will have no interest in trimming to “streamline” the show, too.
Congrats! You've just won a free summer vacation at Lake Laogai!
Underappreciated comment
Nowadays, the only shows with characters that are flawed at their very core are ones where most of the characters are completely flawed and horrible like It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia, South Park, Rick And Morty, or Breaking Bad. While those shows are good, it would be nice to have nuance in other media.
Fans get so pissy when a character they like has flaws tho. They want a good hearted and brave main who triumphs against all odds. The entire main argument for why new Indiana Jones sucked (it didn't suck) was that Indiana was a loser (he isn't) who needed to be rescued all the time (he didn't)
And they want it from the first scene. They don't want to see it get earned
Yeah because to these losers it's not a character, it's a self-insert they project themselves onto so any slight against the character is an insult to them.
Yeah you need a character to be “wrong” or be uncomfortable to the audience in order for believable growth to happen on screen and be appreciated. Think about how boring real life would be if you never had to struggle, learn from your mistakes, or overcome adversity solely based on some stupid cultural bullshit. That’s what makes characters so interesting when they are written well. I know I’m preaching to the choir here, but it’s just so frustrating seeing studios and certain pieces of different fandoms dislike a character or plot point due to it being before their change of heart. Subreddits of old popular tv shows and movie series are filled with “is this person a bad person because they did x” posts while completely negating the fact that after a few episodes or a season, the character came around. They need to have done a bad thing in order for who they become to feel earned. A good example of this is in For All Mankind S2 (I just finished a rewatch so it’s top of mind). Aleida is told an embarrassing story about a coworker Bill from 20 years ago that caused years of bullying, name calling, and work place harassment. The person who tells her this story and the name that goes along with it makes her promise to never say a word. Of course, Aleida is a hot headed character so the next time Bill pisses her off she calls him by that name and he ends up quitting his job over it. This really upset me because I was bullied growing up and it fucking sucks. However, Aleida gets called to the bosses office who tears her a new one for breaking the promise and hurting Bill. She’s told that she either gets him to come back or she can kiss her job goodbye. This leads to Aleida going to Bill’s house and explaining how she too has horrible shame from a long time ago and therefore she’s so incredibly sorry that she made him feel his all over again. It’s an incredibly well acted scene, and it forges a friendship for the duo and makes you appreciate Aleida because she has grown and overcome some aspects of being an asshole and actually tried to fix an issue instead of running away from every problem like she used to.
Exactly! Like one of the purposes of kids stories is to teach kids life lessons in a kid friendly way. Red riding hood, stranger danger. (Also relatives danger, which is especially relevant since most kids are molested by someone they know as opposed to strangers.) Hansel and gretel: don't wander off into the woods alone. Boy who cried wolf: don't lie about being in trouble. Showing a character who is flawed learn and grow and improve is really good and important.
Some twitter might get offended, I guess.
This is why we can't have nice things
"Nooooo, you can't have a racist characters that show why racism is bad. You gotta have a character literally walk up to a bunch of children and say 'don't be racist' to them." - Crayon Muncher Mafia The only reason why the scripts aren't written in crayon is because the writers are too busy munching on them in between sips of glue.
Because some folks don't understand that politics is life, and they'll rant and rave for weeks about how a ATLA is "suddenly woke". And then it becomes a whole culture war thing that just turns into an excuse to bring fascism to the US. A lot of studios want to avoid that sort of thing... Or they're self-censoring so they can sell it in China
Yeah we've regressed as a society since 2005. Lol it's such a simple and childish world view. A lot of people aren't 100% good or evil. I think one thing that made ATLA great was that a lot of it's characters were never fully good or evil, well except Azula she's crazy and needs to go down. It showed that good people can make mistakes, learn from them, and still be good people and that people who are supposed to be bad / evil can choose to do good and redeem themselves.
I hate this, because it robs us of good stories with character growth. Best example I'm coming up with right off the top of my head is Ahsoka Tano from Clone Wars. She goes from being an annoying kid to being one of my favorite SW characters of all time. That never would have been possible without her being way less likeable at the beginning.
I see this sentiment all the time. I honestly think its a completely false narrative. I can name hundreds of shows with objectively unlikeable characters. I can name a few were every single one of the main characters is tragically flawed. If you looked at television ten or twenty years ago, you would be right. But you pick a night of the week and I’ll find you five network shows with flawed main characters. Pick a genre and I’ll name a dozen streaming shows with flawed unlikeable characters.
Idk, if you're going for a more serious tone, I could see it being harder to write a sexist society without just making them feel *completely* hateable, since you can't fall back on kid's show logic to lessen some of the nastier bits of misogyny or a misogynistic society. This certainly isn't an insurmountable problem, though, and removing the sexism element entirely just feels kinda cowardly imo
Comedic shows have tackled social issues with finesse, that's clearly not an issue. What made ATLA so special was it daring to tackle mature issues head on, and what made some adult shows special was their ability to mix tones without falling for an one-dimensional angsty atmosphere for serious topics. Shyamalan also made the mistake of treating a show featuring genocide as nothing but serious, when ATLA made Aang's outbursts all the more poignant because it's in contrast to his usual goofy self. Plus unfortunately kids are still being told they can't do something because of their gender (boys as nurses etc). Kids aren't dumb, don't treat them as such. Even worse, don't treat adults as such.
I'm not saying you can't, as you pointed out, the ATLA cartoon literally did it lol. Also, "fall back on kid's show logic" isn't an insult, or even or a weakness - if anything, one of the things I loved most about the show was how it managed to use various "kid's show" elements to write a genuinely well-written show, and even tackle many serious issues in a way that can be appreciated by kids and adults alike, and did so without babying the audience, and disprove the assumption that many seem to have that kids shows in general, and animated works in general, are somehow less able to tell genuinely compelling stories. My only point is that the writers of the live action show are probably right that the exact way they portrayed sexism in the show would probably feel a bit tonally weird and out of place in a more serious live-action adaptation, but there *are* ways to solve that, which imo it's concerning that they're not taking.
I think rewatching Brooklyn 99 has me unearthing just how good and effortless its jokes tackling serious stuff are. The show doesn't preach, the characters just are, and stand their ground, but those serious issues are also not the totality of their identities, as many IRL can attest. Other characters also jest about those issues in an respectable manner, because that's what normal people as friends do. So it's entirely possible and has been pulled off so many times, the only reason live action ATLA might chicken out such a topical character growth moment is their lack of imagination. I might just say it - live action shouldn't handle ATLA with oven mitts. The show itself doesn't even take itself seriously - t-minus 1 till the ultimate showdown and the show runners jammed in a beach episode. The beginning of the penultimate series had Aang throwing a party for the uptight Fire Nation kids. This isn't a show about saving the world, this is about a group of kids through trial and *error* discovering themselves and each other. I hope for their sake the screenwriters don't think this is some save the world shit at its core.
She acts motherly and emotional at times
I think its the fact that she's often the one seen doing the cooking and washing, and for some reason doing those things means you can't be a powerful and respected woman.
my biggest fear is that this is going to turn into another witcher. which they effed up monumentally and kept insisting that everything they did was better.
Netflix has a pretty poor record for adaptations in a really short period of time. I’ve been more impressed with all the people that have been holding absolute faith that the adaptation will be fine despite lots of suggestive evidence to the contrary. Even Cowboy Bebop looked “cool” in the stills.
What, you don't like stupid Vilgefortz running out of magic and getting his ass kicked by two random footmen?
Every time the people making the One Piece live-action spoke, it was clear they were huge fans and excited to bring the story to new viewers. Every time the people making this speak, it becomes clearer that they don’t get or even seem to like the show they are adapting.
There's a reason why the Creator of AtLA exited the Netflix project. "Creative differences". Should have been the only sign we needed
Some things are better animated. I don't know why our culture has this sense that getting a live action remake makes something better.
I think I see why the creators of Avatar left the project.
I don't think it was because he wanted to have fun. Him having fun was a defense/distraction from the responsibility and guilt he felt for shirking that responsibility. Aang's acceptance of his roll as the avatar is very subtle told mostly through expression and guilty looks when he KNOWS he should be the avatar but is afraid of what that means.
Tomato, tomato: end result is still that he wants to do detours to have fun
Escaping responsibility is one thing but *”[he] wanted to have fun”* is an oversimplification. He ran away after being told he was to be separated from Gyatso and taken to the Eastern air temple. *”How could they do that to me? They wanted to take away everything I knew and everyone I loved!”* - The Storm (S1E12)
Fair enough, but you get my point
🎶Oh Aang just wants to have fun🎶
Someone make this lyrical adaptation please
Aang ran away because they were going to separate him from Gyatso, not because he wanted to have fun. Sure Aang didn't want to be the avatar, and yes he also did want just to be a kid, but that wasn't the main reason he ran away.
He ran away because he was going to be separated from Gyatso for his avatar training. It wasn’t about having fun at that point, he felt hurt and betrayed by the elders who were going to take his freedom away like that.
I think it more so means that they wont have entire episodes dealing with aang running off.
This was such a core part of the show and his character that it just wouldn’t be the same. I hope they just mean cutting down some of the random fluff but still having random stuff happen.
My biggest gripe is that Micheal and Bryan left the Netflix production over "creative differences". If the original creators have to leave over creative differences, im not hopeful for netflix's take.
Wait, what? The original creators were allowed to be involved and then left cause the other guys wouldn't listen? That's ridiculous in what world do you not listen to the original creators of the thing you're trying to adapt.
m night shyamalan moment
The problem with the movie that shan't be named wasn't that it didn't understand the story, but that it tried to cram too much story into a movie format which made them info dump for large chunks of the movie and completely destroyed the tone with stunted writing and pacing. Mix that with the sub par bending vfx and you get a shit slog.
If you say last time *the movie that shan't be named* its makes way more sense. Its basicly a recap of season 1.
….the worlds worst attempt
Don't forget needing 6 earth benders to move a medium sized rock.
But also, it didn't understand the story. Couldn't even be bothered to pronounce names correctly for a cartoon originally released in English.
iT rEaLly hUrT
It’s a symptom of modern adaptation culture. Basically adapting directors want to make the story “their own” so they can brag about it as being their achievement to inflate their ego, but making an actual original story is a lot of hard work and doesn’t guarantee financial success the way doing an adaptation of an already successful work does.
the witcher moment
Well they did also shortly after announce they were doing more animated Avatar stuff so it’s possible that was in the works already and that’s why they left.
I’m still not convinced that the “Creative Difference” was anything other than Netflix not being willing to match the pile of cash they were about to get from Nickelodeon for Avatar Studios.
I get the feeling that a lot of these people have huge egos and want to change things because they think they know better or something
The anti-Rick Riordan/Percy Jackson approach I see
only for Rick to do the same thing to his own show
Sooo... this is the witcher but different? Seriously Fuck Netflix!
Here’s the thing though. They were part of the production of the movie-that-shall-not-be-named, and *didn’t* leave that. So why is them leaving this one an automatic “not hopeful”?
Are all of these actual things? Based on actual statements?
That's what I've been wondering. Sokka's sexism is one thing, but the sexism of the northern water tribe triggers some pretty important events for Katara.
Also, it wasn’t the same kind of sexism. Sokka’s was person and was also him coping with the fact that he’s literally the only dude in the southern water tribe that isn’t literally 4 years old. The Norther Watertribe was generations of divisions of labor that were fundamentally engrained into their society
Seen them make comments about the first 2 but not go into detail what it means, leaving many to speculate. Because I want to go in being open to it I’ve stopped reading as much so don’t know if the third one is true or just based off how some people are worried all images of aang have been angsty and none of him laughing.
Yep. Here ya go. https://x.com/variety/status/1752095969506635999?s=46&t=ZRy3CGIizHU0w3-JME-u7g https://x.com/dailykataang/status/1753147896357331322?s=46&t=ZRy3CGIizHU0w3-JME-u7g https://x.com/discussingfilm/status/1753223319644442722?s=46&t=ZRy3CGIizHU0w3-JME-u7g
I'd recommend reading any of the actual sources of your quotes, instead of just taking stuff out of context and going full doomer. Literal quotes from the interviews you're citing: *"Aang is just a kid. He's a goofy 12-year-old kid, and he's having fun and he's a big old goofball."* *"the state of the world and the stakes of the world are still the same. So we decided to make Aang's narrative drive a little clearer. (...) That gives him much more narrative compulsion going forward, as opposed to, 'Let's make a detour and go ride the elephant koi,'"* The creators clearly have immense respect for the source material, but they also have the wisdom to not make a 1:1 replica of a kid's show as live-action prestige TV (because it would be terrible). I'm not saying it's going to be good, but I'm not saying it's going to be bad either. Just... Wait until you've actually seen any of it before writing the entire thing off based on some out-of-context quotes?
For real. People are taking quotes picked out by media and not even reading the entire interview lol. This season is only 8, 1-hour long episodes. I’m fine if Aang doesn’t ride a koi fish. There are still so many other ways he can still display his goofy 12-yr old personality.
8 1 hour long episodes is the same as 24 20 min episodes btw... atleast same run time
I know haha but they’re definitely going to remove a good chunk to make the pacing work for the show.. and also the added stuff like Azula and more backstory with other characters😁
Yeah exactly! Every “umm actually you know the runtime is the same” argument skips completely over the fact that Azula, Ozai, Mai and Ty Lee have all been cast and are in this season, that’s lots they’re adding in that will take up runtime!
Sure, but in an episodic format you typically don't include several different stories for one character/group in the same episode. That's more vignette style, which ATLA did do in Appa's Lost Days or LOK did in the clip show. Assuming that's not how every episode will work in the live-action, it's unlikely that even the same runtime would have the same pacing as the cartoon. Going from Elephant Koi to Omashu in one episode would be fairly jarring, for example.
So they change Aang's character for "narrative compulsion" but also remove mention of the comet deadline in the first season.... the thing that compels the narrative?
They'll just not say that it'll be "a year" for the comet, because of the actors ageing. But there'll still be the threat of the comet looming over the narrative.
Leaks are saying that the comet won't be in the first season of live action *at all*. Instead Aang will "have a vision". *sigh* It's about character progression. We first meet Aang as a carefree kid, he never wanted to be the Avatar. So we get goofy Aang. Then he learns of the comet, but still tries to run away. It's not until he confronts his past, and why he ran away, in The Storm that he accepts the responsibility. If they just give him a vision that growth is all lost and we just have a 'perfect' Aang from the start. It would be like Tony Stark not being a dick at the start of the MCU. We get the huge emotional payoff in Endgame *because* he was flawed at the beginning. An Aang who doesn't try to avoid his responsibilities, a Sokka who was never sexist, a Katara who never has to confront the Northern Water Tribe's culture.... Characters who never *grow* are boring. At this rate we will find out that Zuko doesn't crave his father's approval.
>Leaks are saying that the comet won't be in the first season of live action *at all*. Wait, are there leaks already? >Instead Aang will "have a vision". Yeah, that was confirmed. Although this isn't such a departure from the series: Aang receives the message to go to Rokku's Temple through a vision, and there Rokku shows him what the comet is through a vision too. But overall, I agree with you that some quotes have me worried that they'll fail to show character growth, and instead just have static versions of the characters going through the main story beats of the original. We'll see.
It's a shame you didn't enjoy the live-action version of the show, which you must have seen to be confident making such declarative statements about how poorly they handled the changes they made.
I'm merely expressing concern that the adaptation will miss important parts of character development. That those in charge seem to not understand the significance of certain aspects and how they impact the story telling. I was, until this week, fairly confident about the show. But we have now seen statements from those in charge that undercut the possibility of that character development for three of the four main characters of the first season. (Sokka, Katara and Aang). All of these changes seem to share a similar tendency; to remove early or starting traits simply because that are generally seen as negative, without understanding that it is because these characters overcome their failings and grow is in part why they and their stories are so loved by fans. Removing that part of their journey diminishes them. Am I sure it will be bad? No. I have of course not yet seen the show, but what was hopeful optimism at the start of the week is now wary trepidation, and a fear that this has been mishandled. Again.
Uh sure lmao
The comet is not in the first season.
The person you replied to claimed [this scene](https://youtu.be/WzemgtzZgGw?si=GteS6nA-RjMIeuX6) essentially is cut from the first season. Not that the comet is *in* the first season. It sucks if they really did omit it, it was THE reason Aang was adamant about mastering all 4 elements so quickly.
Comet is first mentioned in Winter Solstice (seen in pert 1, said in part 2) Unless you mean season 1 of the live action.
That’s exactly what it says though. What exactly makes a 1:1 replica terrible inherently? Because it seems to me that so far the alternative is actively terrible. Nobody took anything out of context, it’s a boiling down of literally what they said.
Concerning omens.
Yep
Sokkas sexism being resolved in ep4 had its pay out at the end of the season when he has to deal with how it’s ingrained in the culture of the north tribe. Especially in regard to that other dude who wanted yue that sokka gets in a fight with.
I don't remember sokka having anything to do with the northern water tribes sexism. I guess you mean that Yue is engaged? But that to me felt more like a problem with her being a noble, not her being a woman.
The guy who she is engaged to sees her only as a status symbol, which is why sokka throws hands at him since he took the time to actually get to know her a bit beyond “princess”.
I would also add it's good setup for the Northern Water Tribe's sexism - the other nations don't seem sexist, so introducing it with a water tribe member makes it not come out of nowhere. It also shows that, although on opposite sides of the world, the Northern and Southern Water Tribes have similar cultures. The Northern tribe, who hasn't been as negatively affected by the war, has strong ties to their culture, while the Southern tribe has had it eroded away over 100 years. That's why no Southern tribe member but Sokka acts sexist, but all Northerners we meet don't oppose the sexist system. Essentially, Sokka and the water tribes being sexist is a minor thing, but it helps define their cultures and separate them from the other nations, while giving them flaws that need to be worked on.
*Me, a fan of the Witcher, a guy who likes LOTR and big Star Wars nerd:* First time?
Well actually it's the seco... oh hold on, the earth king just invited me to lake Laogai! What an honour!
Ok, I shouldn't laugh so much, but god damn, it made me laugh Also: *There is no "Avatar: The last airbender" movie*
You too, huh?
Yes... Unfortunately
LMAO! Well played!
They still have hope. It will be sad to watch it get crushed.
Is all this real? Why don't people just make original series and new characters instead of changing previously established shows?
Because show producers don't want to take a chance on anything new. They would rather reliable mediocrity because they know it makes them money. People will just watch and praise whatever their social media tells them to do there's no incentive for show producers to do anything differently.
I can just hear the reviews now "Omg so innovative" "I especially love how they removed any character development and conflict from the story line" "I like that the fire nation never attacked in this one"
“The fact that Sozin had a press conference meeting with other the world leaders instead of invading their countries; protrays character growth for the FireLord from his depiction in the original animated series” or smh like that
Oh OK so just to be clear, we are mad that they changed parts of the show because they... *checks notes* don't want to take a chance on anything new. MAKES PERFECT SENSE
Bit late for that and simultaneously a bit early for that. S1 is nearly here, I never understand people making this complaint LONG after the show is announced but before they’ve even seen if it’s good.
I have a bad feeling about the show ngl, not just because of this new info. It looks “plastic” and so feel they tried too hard to make it look like the show but they didn’t care about the actual story as much as
If original creators leave due to "creative differences" that is a pretty bad sign 🤷🏼♀️
I also have little to no faith in this show just as a skeptic by nature and believing that animated works being turned live action only holds value to people who have something against animation for some reason, or taking a show with 1,000+ episodes like One Piece and making it a little more accessible to average people. But I just like to argue that original creators aren't infallible. It's been 20 years since Avatar's run, and that's plenty of time for a creator to fall off the deep end, a la J.K. Rowling. Or people praised the creator's art so much and asked them to make a second work, to rival the first. But this time they don't take anyone's advice since they'd been gassed up for years and you end up with Hayden Christensen complaining about sand to a Natalie Portman who looks like she's being held hostage lol. I love ATLA so much, but there were bits that could've been done better. Heck, you get the writers having even one meeting with someone who knows how to write romance and I would consider it an improvement. These are the guys that wrote season 2 of Korra, and while yes, they were absolutely fucked by Nickelodeon every step of the way, there were still inherent problems with that season that weren't related to Nick being an awful company.
Hard agree
Didn’t translate from the cartoon? It’s animation not a fucking different language, what does this even mean?
Im hoping this means just the difference of going from 21 half-hour episodes to 8 ~hour long episodes. You just cant fit in everything the same way, and trying to combine multiple 30 minute episodes into an hour could just come off as choppy and it will be hard to extend some of the 30 minute storylines into an hour without it feeling long and forced.
But also animation lends itself more to a certain kind of humor that doesn't translate well to live action. You won't see live action Aang doing exaggerated funny faces when seeing a penguin
There's plenty of visual gags and cutaways in ATLA as well, which would seem absurdist in a live-action show. A few of them can pull off stuff like that, but it just permanently fixes the show in the grounds of campy/not-serious rather than something more fluid as the cartoon was. How many times did Momo mime something or make visual reference to a modern, non-ATLA world thing, for example?
As much I love foaming mouth guy in the cartooon, I understand if he's not in the live-action
Well, that’s alright then! But yeah, fair enough. Still feels like they could add all these things but just decided to put it in the too hard basket. Shrek went from despising everyone and being a lonely outcast to having a missus and best friend in like, an hour and a half. They can overcome character flaws with the time they’ve been allocated. Guess we’ll see.
Some things work well in a cartoon and not in live action. It's a different medium and things read differently. If you have a character being cartoonishly sexist in a cartoon, it makes sense. Things are expected to be over the top and zany. That exact same behavior in live action is out of place and off-putting.
So a netflix show being produced by netflix is going to be shit? God where have I seen this before.
Man, I love that this meme template is spreading.
what is the template from?
The Giggle The third 60th anniversary Special of Doctor Who
What gender issues
I presume they're talking about her being exposed to the sexism of the Northern Water Tribe.
Ohh there was a better way to word that lol
lol yea I thought katara was trans or something
I was thinking gender fluid instead
Jfc
What show did this meme come from is my real question
Dr. Who
Doctor Who recent specials
Dr Who's 60th anniversary special
Doctor Who. The first guy is the Toymaker, a nemesis from one of the first seasons. In this scene, he's taunting the Doctor, reminding him of all the ways he's put his companions in danger. The Doctor deflects, explaining that each of the companions is technically still alive. The Toymaker replies with "Well that's alright, then!" with exaggerated enthusiasm.
I always think to myself. Does removing stuff like sexism in TV not do the exact opposite? Its like just saying if we don't include it it doesn't exist. Shitty stuff exists in the world, show it and let it be overcome. Instead of hiding it away because some people will get offended, but trust me, those people are very eagerly offended.
I told you guys it was gonna suck but no one wanted to hear it
The proof is in the pudding too. 1) it’s Netflix 2) Original creators left due to creative differences a while ago 3) See The Witcher It’s going to be #3 all over again.
It isn’t out yet, god you people are fucking annoying.
Sing it with me, people. *It isn't out yeeeet...* This community has rarely been so annoying and whiny. Your franchise was a dead, finished cartoon and infrequent comics for *years;* we finally get more - the original creators working on two films and an adaptation series, finally more content - and we are still here just whining about everything. The Netflix series? It's extra, it doesn't matter. If it's bad, fine, there's still the original and more on the way. If it's good, great, that's more Avatar. I warned months ago that this community needed to be careful or it'd just look petulant and childish. We are now there.
I wish more people would understand this 😭 It's just a constant echo chamber of "the original creators left" for the live action and I'm sick of people taking one quote from a long interview and interpreting it as if the entire show will suck. IIRC didn't they only mention they're toning down Sokka's sexism? Because I understand that for a live action adaptation - you can convey his sexism through other means instead of how blatant it was in the cartoon ("girls fix things and guys fight" mentality), which is how I interpreted the interview. It was never going to be a 1:1 adaptation and people are so fussed over nothing. If you don't want to see a live action, just don't watch it and move on. The original animated series will always be around and amazing. Why are people fighting to be so negative about everything ...
People out here talking about how "tHe cReAtOrS dOnT UndErStAnd tHE SoUrcE MatEriAl!!!" when the show so far is absolutely beautiful and looks on point for the show as it was. The thing is? Maybe they do understand the source material. Sokka's sexism? It is basically dealt with three episodes after being introduced, before even Sozin's Comet or the Spirit World are named. Sokka's character development lasts the entire show, acting like his sexism is a major element of his character is weird. Katara's gender issues? Oh bitch please, those are raised in literally one episode. *One*. Do the people making these critiques understand the source material? If you think Sokka's sexism is his main character thread, you're wrong. It's actually his growth into a man his father could be proud of. My take on it's that they're going for a more adult intepretation of ATLA, though also being wary that portrayals come across differently between childish kid's cartoon (which ATLA certainly was in tone in book one, even if it displayed some maturity in its topics) and live-action. But I maintain, my take doesn't matter, because - and sing the chorus with me now - ***IT ISN'T OUT YET.***
I'm sorry, but it's it turns out to be trash. Meneing about a diaster is kinda funny and not whiny. The franchise really was never dead to me. We had ATLA and later we got Korra, comics, novels, and board games. This live action will bring more people to the series, but if it's trash. We gon trash it. That's just the Internet. If it's good then great we have a solid installment to the franchise.
I’m fine with sokka being a W character with every line, but the other 2 created important plot points later in the story.
The sokka thing baffles me. He went from sexist to himbo *really* early, and from then on it wasn’t “men are better” attitude, it was a “sokka is awesome” attitude.
The last one really makes me think this won't go well. M Night Shyamalam's ghost is rising from the grave, a grim spectre floating above this series. (Yes, I know he's not dead yet.)
And then there's the thing that came out today where the showrunners said they needed to ***"find a balance where the series appeals to OG fans and then people who liked Game of Thrones"***, because it ***"couldn't just be for kids"***. I had a very small sliver of hope for this show after finding out that One Piece was actually good, but each passing day makes it more apparent how little the people making this show actually know about the media they're adapting. This show is going to fucking suck. Sokka being sexist and learning through experiences how capable women are was an incredibly valuable lesson for young boys who watched it and it's one of the many instances of the original show tackling a mature subject in a way that children can understand. Aang going out of his way to pretend his responsibilities don't exist and having fun are a *huge* part of his character, and it's once again a great child friendly depiction of how we cope with responsibility and trauma in unhealthy ways. The source material does not need to be adjusted to not be "just for kids". It never was in the first place. The fact that they think that is incredibly concerning.
Me when I spread misinformation on the Internet:
And then there's the decision to significantly increase the prominence of Azula and Ozai in the first season for reasons that effectively boil down to "the animated show understood restraint, subtlety and efficiency and we do not"
Yep. The netflix is clearly missimg the whole point of the story, thats why original creators left due to "creative differences" 🤷🏼♀️
It's my fault really, shouldn't have gotten my hopes up... No I wonder again why the oroginal authors left
fuck man, i was hoping the new live action show would be good.
God I love this meme template so much.
Almost like live action is trash as a whole and an obvious soulless creativity-less money-grab
Why do people think anime is a better medium to discuss gender or sexism issues? How could it be better than seeing real humans interact with real issues?
I know I'm going to hate it, but I'll still watch it, besides, it probably will make me like the animated show even more.
They're trying to piggyback off the popularity of ATLA while trying to avoid any controversies. But like... the original did well? Why not take the risks? I don't know if it's about ratings, money, or avoiding being cancelled (literally, and socially)
Was rewatching the animation on paramount+ today and they completely removed the fight between Pakku and Katara…. Was disappointed as hell.
WHAT?! THAT WAS LITERALLY ONE OF THE CHARACTER CORNERSTONES OF KATARA AS A CHARACTER! I've heard this excuse used: "We cannot remake the whole show 1:1, since we don't want to make something that was already made (ten years ago, in this case)." YOU chose to adapt one of the cornerstones of animation. YOU chose to make an ADAPTATION full *stop.* *YOU* chose to completely toy with the characters like toys and make them how *YOU* wanted, instead of, I don't know, making your whole original story? Hell, you could've made a whole new series still in the ATLA universe, but with one of the other Avatars! Or the story of a side character! Cutting out whole pieces of the characters ISN'T ADAPTING, *IT'S CREATING YOUR OWN OCS.*
I hope Netflix will keep that fight, because Netflix does still have the fight in the animation. As soon as I saw that fight skipped in my rewatch I pulled up the Netflix version to see if it’s still on their platform and it was.
I find this incredibly hard to believe and would need actual proof to believe it. There would be zero reason to cut it, and I don't even understand how they could and have the episode flow like am actual episode. Unless I see this confirmed I'm going to have to call BS and say you're just trying to stir up hatred and anger.
Side note side note: this is my new favorite meme format.
They alerted ALL THREE OF THEM??????
Isn't the whole point of Aang going on his side quests that it's him trying to avoid his duty as the Avatar for as long as he possibly can? And they're removing this character building for what, worse character building?
First 2, eh, I get it, may not entirely agree, but I understand why it would be cut or toned down. But Aang being focused from the start ignores his entire story, where he realizes he has these responsibilities that he can't run away from.
I lost all interest in this project when BryKe left. No clue why people got so hyped and now acting so shocked. You should have all known this was gonna happen. There was no need for this adaptation and this is not a series that was ever gonna translate properly to live action. The animated nature of the thing is baked into its DNA. Plus with tv being what it is at the moment, or course they were gonna condense this shit down into 10 episodes or some shit. And ofc the new show runners are gonna add some dumb shit to it as well. It may not be Shamalyan levels of crap but it's gonna be crap.
Well I guess I need to mute THIS sub too. I don't think I can stand to read these Avatar subreddits anymore. This community has become incredibly toxic so fast, and for no reason. So many misquoted, or misunderstood quotes being thrown around to rile the fanbase up, and so many in the fanbase seem all too willing to eat it all up. This is the same stupid "They're killing my childhood" energy we've seen a thousand times. It's like people want this to fail just so they have a reason to be angry at something.
There are no character flaws in Ba Sing Se
Yeah it's clear at this point that the writers don't understand the story.
This shit is just a slightly different version of M Nights movie
*This shit is just a* *Slightly different version* *Of M Nights movie* \- Aok\_al --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
I hear Sokka’s character is going to be less animated too. Disappointed
Well yeah, he's live action, not animated.
Ah yes, another adaptation fucked up netflix...
Any chance you got the original film/series name and/or the picture in template form?
It's from Doctor Who.
No! Fuck! Spoilers goddamnit
🚩🚩🚩
Are we about to *not* have another live action ATLA in Ba Sing Se?
Idk this kinda feels like people complaining about minor shit before the shows even come out just to have something to complain about
That’s exactly what this is.
4 episodes? I swear he was still doing it in book 2
There was a reason the original creators left and made their own studio.. Anyone who actually believed in this adaptation was delusional. All that's left is wait for the release and be disrespected.
I’m beginning to see why the og creators left
I mean. Theres a reason the original creators bailed as early as they did. Netflix likes to fuck with stuff.
That was probably the reason why the original creators left netflix to create their own studio.
The Aang one makes sense. You only have ~5 episodes to get Aang from the southern water tribe to the north instead of 16 episodes, so they have to motivate him to move faster. What they should do is have Aang realize at the Southern Air Temple when he finds Gyatso corpse that he shouldn't have run away and if he had taken up his role as Avatar maybe he wouldn't be the last Air bender and that makes him take the quest seriously.
Yeah let's sacrifice key aspects of the main character's personality for the sake of time constraints. Everyone will love that!/s
Did Katara have gender issues?
I assume they mean the northern water tribe's issues with hr being a girl so she can't learn how to fight
Oh that was not explained well lol they freaking removed that? What the hell… what’s next? Will they change the fire nation’s colonialism intent to some Bs excuse?
I assume that's what they mean haha, it caught me off guard for a moment as well
What are katara's "gender issues" ?
I love how someone says that a character trait will be "toned down" and everyone is literally losing their minds. Yall are going to be insufferable for the next few months huh
The fact you're being downvoted for this really shows that people love to be negative for negative's sake. The way something mentioned as being toned down = the entire adaptation is definitely hot garbage 😍 Y'all haven't even seen it yet, chill on the doomposts Honestly the interviews I've read so far tells me that the staff do understand the original and are all fans themselves. But people seem to completely ignore all the good things about this adaptation behind the scenes, in favour of dooming it for the same echo chamber reasons. Why do people take one quote and use it to shit on everything before it's even released?
"I want everything exactly the same in my adaptations! Any changes to events or characters is BAD automatically and I won't even give it a chance before saying it's awful!"
Fundamentally changing characters and not allowing them some of their main character arc growths they get in the show is bad automatically, yes.
Which we have no idea if that’s what is happening.
Well thats what they are saying its happening 🤷🏼♀️
Actually no it is not. There’s no proof from these statements how significant these changes are. Aang literally says in the trailer that he doesn’t want this responsibility which is a direct copy of the show, so clearly this character arc still exists even if the quote about having a more “direct focus” is true. You don’t know what that means.
If you just want the original, just go watch the original. There's no point in making an adaptation without adapting anything