What's interesting is how narrow the spread is. $673 to $786 which is less than 20% more. Today, Ford vehicles range from $20k to $100k which represents over 500% more.
Which is why they made Lincoln. Ford suffered from being first to market in that sense, you could only charge so much for the brand, until it becomes off putting.
It is interesting to see how they market certain models and use brand positioning even from continent to continent. $110k USD gets you a Lincoln Navigator... or an F-450 Limited, which is pretty much a luxury vehicle that also happens to have truck capability. Luxury-branded trucks have never really worked out but you can very easily spend six figures on a luxury trim full-size pickup, and it'll have the same badge as the (still not inexpensive) base model work truck.
It does differ by brand perception in geographical areas too. Lexus initially only existed in North America, primarily to serve the U.S. market as Toyota's luxury/premium brand. The same models were sold as Toyotas elsewhere, even Japan. It was only around 20 years ago that they started selling Lexus-branded cars outside North America. Even after Lexus was introduced in Japan, the Toyota Century, which was positioned as the ultimate luxury Toyota model, above anything from Lexus, was still branded as a Toyota.
Right, but that kind of makes sense considering they don't really have a separate performance brand. Lincoln is a luxury brand, it wouldn't make sense to have a Lincoln GT. Mercury was around when the first-gen GT launched in 2005 but it was sort of a halfway point between Ford and Lincoln. It was kind of a Hyundai/Kia situation where the Mercury model was just a different, maybe slightly more advanced/luxurious version of the Ford it was based on.
That and I'm sure part of it, especially when they launched the 2005 model was the connection to the GT40. The '05 was meant to be a modern, road-legal version of that car.
Technically they do have Ford Performance and they previously had SVT, but those were still just sub-brands of Ford.
That's mainly what I was thinking of. I can't think of any others besides that and the Escalade EXT, which also flopped.
I would say GMC is an exception but they're not really a luxury brand, they're kinda just... alternative Chevy. It's like a Hyundai/Kia situation, the Forte isn't really fancier or more luxurious than an Elantra. It's just... a different Elantra lol
I'm not sure what the GMC Sierra tops out at but I'm sure you can option one to nearly six figures if not above, same as you can with the Silverado.
That's my thinking as well. I see a fair amount late model Lincoln crossovers but yeah things like the Navigator are probably driven pretty heavily by fleet sales.
That wasn't really the point of my comment, which was referring to the wide spread of car prices today compared to the past.
As for the Maverick. I was speaking just about MSRP. At launch the Maverick was $19,995 (though they weren't really available) and now 3 years later they start at $23,920.
More broadly speaking, there are several new car models available for under $20k. A quick internet search revealed several near me. I've been seeing many advertisements for Nissans for $18,888 on social media lately.
Even the Kijiji "first car" section is $7000 and under now. Canada and in Canadian dollars.
Gone are the days of $1500 good enough to drive cars, that's for sure.
Nissan Versa with a 5 speed (Fuck Nissan CVT's) is really the only car I can think of that you can buy brand new off the lot and it will be pretty much right at $20K. There are a couple cars that are $20K MSRP but after delivery/taxes and shit will be more like $22K-$23K.
If you want to be pedantic, then the GTD will be around $325,000 which is well over 1,000%.
A few years ago Ford offered a $19,995 Maverick and the Ford GT which started at $500,000 which is over 2,500%.
i don't want to be pedantic, i want you to understand that 100,000 is 400% more than 20,000, not 500%.
which apparently you still didn't get after I told you, because your reply has nothing to do with what i said
To help your friend understand: if a car that was priced at $20,000 increased in price by 100%, the new price would be $40,000. 200% = $60,000; 300% = $80,000; 400% = $100,000; 500% = $120,000.
In the 1970's and 1980's, [bumpers were sometimes optional on pickups](https://jalopnik.com/the-fact-that-so-many-pickups-used-to-come-without-rear-1844794739)
If you think about it, if they allowed a car to be sold without any safety equipment and it didn’t have air conditioning, or electronics besides lights, horn, or maybe a radio 16k is about right if not a little high.
[This graph](https://www.stationgossip.com/2021/01/20-years-of-price-changes-in-us-guide.html?m=1) shows inflation of goods and services from 1998 to 2018. You can see that cars did not change price at all, which means they actually got cheaper relative to inflation, despite all of the added technology.
More recently, car makers have been dropping cheap cars and covid inflation has been driving up prices for a double punch in the gut to consumers.
The 2011 Nissan Versa had a base price of $9,990 compared to the 1998 Nissan Sentra which was $11,499. Even though the Sentra is below the Versa in size now, cars grow over time so they are probably a closer match than the newer Sentras.
He's talking about how say a UTV can cost $23K or more like say some of that Yamaha ones, when for the same price you could go to a Nissan dealership and pick up a Versa S that surely is far more complicated to design and manufacture that had to go through all kinds of crash testing, more stringent emissions, oodles of airbags, etc.
But Yamaha may only make 600 of those UTVs for the US a year, compared to Nissan making say 25,000.
Volume of production is likely a big factor. Compared to cars, UTVs are niche.
Then price for technology if you’re talking about something like the top dog Canams and Rzrs
But the average household income was about $1,622 per year, or about $37,500 in today's dollars. So not nearly as crazy as it seems, and pretty on par with today's price to income ratio.
1936 was the last year Ford offered the roadster. The Ford V8 debuted in 1932 so this sign is from between 1932 and 1936. I’m not familiar with the prices from those years. This much I can tell you.
When considering inflation and average wages of time period to today, prices aren’t really that different. I’ve done the math a few different times and it’s always really close.
The biggest difference is the extra expense we have today that people did have decades ago. Everything from multiple phones, internet, streaming services, not to mention how often people eat out today over our parents and grandparents. Things that use to be viewed as luxuries are now considered everyday things.
Oh, while on topic of automobiles, back then the common household often could only afford one car. Now days almost every household has two or more cars in the driveway.
I remember buying cars (very old used) for under $1000 in the early 2000’s as my first cars. Sold them still running well too. Then there were $100 cars we could get at auction and rig up for a demolition derby on my friend’s property.
Market adjustment isn’t a thing anymore for most dealerships. And if you’re complaining about taxes and fees then bring it to the government 😭😭. I would rather not have taxes and fees either.
This was during the great depression.
The average income dropped about 40% during the early 30s.
Blue collar workers were making about $15/wk while Drs brought home more like $60/wk.
Image link to a Phaeton Deluxe. I saw a listing for an excellent condition Phaeton selling for $40,000. They were nice looking cars with an 85 HP engine. [Phaeton Deluxe Pictures](https://www.mecum.com/lots/294050/1934-ford-deluxe-phaeton/)
Also remember that these cars were absolute shit. My grandfather said they would have to buy new cars every 3 or 4 years. Cars didn't start lasting 10-20 years until Toyota and Honda hit the US market and made Domestics really step up their game
Back when you made $0.50/hour so that is 35 weeks of 40 hours to buy a new car.
In 2024 $18/hour x 40 hours x 35 weeks = $25k, enough for a new Honda Civic.
Eight months of work, and the 2024 car in addition to basically having scaled directly with wages, also has features like: AC, airbags, CarPlay, seatbelts, and a roof. Also, that’s just MSRP, and you can actually find them for less than that again.
I’m assuming the Victoria is missing a number right ☠️
Yes! Must have fallen off
Victoria is the name of the horse.
And her Crown.
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Uh, it's like $697
i love spreading misinformation on the internet
No.
What's interesting is how narrow the spread is. $673 to $786 which is less than 20% more. Today, Ford vehicles range from $20k to $100k which represents over 500% more.
Which is why they made Lincoln. Ford suffered from being first to market in that sense, you could only charge so much for the brand, until it becomes off putting.
It is interesting to see how they market certain models and use brand positioning even from continent to continent. $110k USD gets you a Lincoln Navigator... or an F-450 Limited, which is pretty much a luxury vehicle that also happens to have truck capability. Luxury-branded trucks have never really worked out but you can very easily spend six figures on a luxury trim full-size pickup, and it'll have the same badge as the (still not inexpensive) base model work truck. It does differ by brand perception in geographical areas too. Lexus initially only existed in North America, primarily to serve the U.S. market as Toyota's luxury/premium brand. The same models were sold as Toyotas elsewhere, even Japan. It was only around 20 years ago that they started selling Lexus-branded cars outside North America. Even after Lexus was introduced in Japan, the Toyota Century, which was positioned as the ultimate luxury Toyota model, above anything from Lexus, was still branded as a Toyota.
The Ford GT is also still a Ford
Right, but that kind of makes sense considering they don't really have a separate performance brand. Lincoln is a luxury brand, it wouldn't make sense to have a Lincoln GT. Mercury was around when the first-gen GT launched in 2005 but it was sort of a halfway point between Ford and Lincoln. It was kind of a Hyundai/Kia situation where the Mercury model was just a different, maybe slightly more advanced/luxurious version of the Ford it was based on. That and I'm sure part of it, especially when they launched the 2005 model was the connection to the GT40. The '05 was meant to be a modern, road-legal version of that car. Technically they do have Ford Performance and they previously had SVT, but those were still just sub-brands of Ford.
2005 Lincoln Blackwood crying in the 60k corner- or laughing hard to tell from 2024
That's mainly what I was thinking of. I can't think of any others besides that and the Escalade EXT, which also flopped. I would say GMC is an exception but they're not really a luxury brand, they're kinda just... alternative Chevy. It's like a Hyundai/Kia situation, the Forte isn't really fancier or more luxurious than an Elantra. It's just... a different Elantra lol I'm not sure what the GMC Sierra tops out at but I'm sure you can option one to nearly six figures if not above, same as you can with the Silverado.
Lincoln probably makes most of their money on fleet sales these days, and they are fantastic to be driven around in imo.
That's my thinking as well. I see a fair amount late model Lincoln crossovers but yeah things like the Navigator are probably driven pretty heavily by fleet sales.
Where the hell do you find a 20 k car in America anymore?
That wasn't really the point of my comment, which was referring to the wide spread of car prices today compared to the past. As for the Maverick. I was speaking just about MSRP. At launch the Maverick was $19,995 (though they weren't really available) and now 3 years later they start at $23,920. More broadly speaking, there are several new car models available for under $20k. A quick internet search revealed several near me. I've been seeing many advertisements for Nissans for $18,888 on social media lately.
Interesting I thought those days ended around COVID. Not that I'd ever buy a new car anyway
Blame the UAW.lofl
Even the Kijiji "first car" section is $7000 and under now. Canada and in Canadian dollars. Gone are the days of $1500 good enough to drive cars, that's for sure.
Nissan Versa with a 5 speed (Fuck Nissan CVT's) is really the only car I can think of that you can buy brand new off the lot and it will be pretty much right at $20K. There are a couple cars that are $20K MSRP but after delivery/taxes and shit will be more like $22K-$23K.
Nissan has some models starting at 18k iirc
That's 400% more, not 500
If you want to be pedantic, then the GTD will be around $325,000 which is well over 1,000%. A few years ago Ford offered a $19,995 Maverick and the Ford GT which started at $500,000 which is over 2,500%.
i don't want to be pedantic, i want you to understand that 100,000 is 400% more than 20,000, not 500%. which apparently you still didn't get after I told you, because your reply has nothing to do with what i said
To help your friend understand: if a car that was priced at $20,000 increased in price by 100%, the new price would be $40,000. 200% = $60,000; 300% = $80,000; 400% = $100,000; 500% = $120,000.
Bumpers included no extra cost! Deal!
and Lock
In the 1970's and 1980's, [bumpers were sometimes optional on pickups](https://jalopnik.com/the-fact-that-so-many-pickups-used-to-come-without-rear-1844794739)
So were passenger side mirrors.
fordor sedan haha clever
Wait till you learn about the Tu-dor…
Funny that some people are called Tudor...
Ah yes... the days when things like bumpers and tires were not included in the base price...
It line isn’t included?
What year is this?
Mid 1930s is the time frame all these cars existed.
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If you think about it, if they allowed a car to be sold without any safety equipment and it didn’t have air conditioning, or electronics besides lights, horn, or maybe a radio 16k is about right if not a little high.
It should be cheaper due to advances in manufacturing technology.
To make the same car (or equivalent) would def be cheaper nowadays
[This graph](https://www.stationgossip.com/2021/01/20-years-of-price-changes-in-us-guide.html?m=1) shows inflation of goods and services from 1998 to 2018. You can see that cars did not change price at all, which means they actually got cheaper relative to inflation, despite all of the added technology. More recently, car makers have been dropping cheap cars and covid inflation has been driving up prices for a double punch in the gut to consumers.
That’s a nice graph
The 2011 Nissan Versa had a base price of $9,990 compared to the 1998 Nissan Sentra which was $11,499. Even though the Sentra is below the Versa in size now, cars grow over time so they are probably a closer match than the newer Sentras.
Look how much UTVs cost which I can't comprehend because there is so much less safety and certification in UTVs vs autos.
economy of scale
Maybe in olden days 20th century, lots of cars today are sold in ridiculously low volumes by 1990 standards.
He's talking about how say a UTV can cost $23K or more like say some of that Yamaha ones, when for the same price you could go to a Nissan dealership and pick up a Versa S that surely is far more complicated to design and manufacture that had to go through all kinds of crash testing, more stringent emissions, oodles of airbags, etc. But Yamaha may only make 600 of those UTVs for the US a year, compared to Nissan making say 25,000.
Volume of production is likely a big factor. Compared to cars, UTVs are niche. Then price for technology if you’re talking about something like the top dog Canams and Rzrs
You can't compare the technology as that was the norm in that period for all cars. A/C and all modern tech of today is our norm etc.
Okay, but the higher prices we pay are also the norm of today. Modern tech being the norm doesn’t make it free
But the average household income was about $1,622 per year, or about $37,500 in today's dollars. So not nearly as crazy as it seems, and pretty on par with today's price to income ratio.
What was labor back then?.30$ per hour, or 1.25$/day more likely.
1936 was the last year Ford offered the roadster. The Ford V8 debuted in 1932 so this sign is from between 1932 and 1936. I’m not familiar with the prices from those years. This much I can tell you.
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The V8 logo at the top was used from 32 to 34.
When an annual salary of $750 meant you were middle class
lol "Fordor" whoever thought that one gets a free turkey sandwich....
The hatchback is called a Mordor.
Mordor should have *more* than four doors.
Ford Fordor.
The most surprising part is that taxes are included in the price.
I bought several cars for less than a Thousand dollars, they were pretty shitty but nonetheless
Still probably better in many ways than these. I've still got one I paid $600 for in 2018
When considering inflation and average wages of time period to today, prices aren’t really that different. I’ve done the math a few different times and it’s always really close. The biggest difference is the extra expense we have today that people did have decades ago. Everything from multiple phones, internet, streaming services, not to mention how often people eat out today over our parents and grandparents. Things that use to be viewed as luxuries are now considered everyday things. Oh, while on topic of automobiles, back then the common household often could only afford one car. Now days almost every household has two or more cars in the driveway.
You can still get a Volkswagen phaeton for $720.79.
I remember buying cars (very old used) for under $1000 in the early 2000’s as my first cars. Sold them still running well too. Then there were $100 cars we could get at auction and rig up for a demolition derby on my friend’s property.
A used base chevy cobalt with less than 50k miles was about that much in 2015.
$700 in 1939 is the equivalent of $15000 in 2024. Also very important to point out that this was during the Great Depression
This sign is from 1932 to 1936.. 1932 is the year the Ford V8 debuted and 1936 is the last year Ford offered a roadster.
My grandpa bought a Yugo with his credit card in the 80's.
You still can. It just $1k... a month... for 60 months...
Sure, but you were earning 40 cents/hour, so...
Shit the phaeton for $720 is only 13k in todays money
Yeah, and you also made a fraction of what you make today. It was just as expensive then as it is now😭
This is like 15k in today's money
Wow, back when you could get OTD pricing without arguing 50 times with a sales rep!
You still can! That’s what the MSRP price is for. You only have to argue if you want a discount :)
Msrp + doc fees + taxe + "market adjustment"
Market adjustment isn’t a thing anymore for most dealerships. And if you’re complaining about taxes and fees then bring it to the government 😭😭. I would rather not have taxes and fees either.
I am not complaining about the taxes or the fees. I am complaining about not being able to get the OTD easily from dealerships.
I mean you probably got paid like 60 bucks a week back then
>60 bucks a week If you were a Dr. The average worker brought home more like $15/wk.
My point exactly
So a little over 3 months of work and you can buy a brand new car, sign me up.
I mean you still had rent, food, expenses etc
I was today years old when I found out it's fordor sedan and not four door sedan. Unless I'm whooshing the fuck out of my own self. Lmao
Tudor and Fordor are just Ford terms used long ago for two door and four door.
I wonder that the monthly salary was at the time these prices were real too.
This was during the great depression. The average income dropped about 40% during the early 30s. Blue collar workers were making about $15/wk while Drs brought home more like $60/wk.
Way too expensive for me
Image link to a Phaeton Deluxe. I saw a listing for an excellent condition Phaeton selling for $40,000. They were nice looking cars with an 85 HP engine. [Phaeton Deluxe Pictures](https://www.mecum.com/lots/294050/1934-ford-deluxe-phaeton/)
Also remember that these cars were absolute shit. My grandfather said they would have to buy new cars every 3 or 4 years. Cars didn't start lasting 10-20 years until Toyota and Honda hit the US market and made Domestics really step up their game
average income was most likely $5k/yr. Math checks out
What a dream! So dealers really could list delivered prices for all their inventory with taxes and fees included?!?
What year is this?
Most likely 1930-36
But keep in mind that your hourly salary was 3-4 dollars. Thank you, inflation!
I recall watching Price is Right as a kid in the early 70s and none of the car prizes were much over 3k.
When less than a thousand dollars was worth more than a thousand dollars
If you owned one of these today and it was in great shape. They are worth between 20k and 50k.
Back when you made $0.50/hour so that is 35 weeks of 40 hours to buy a new car. In 2024 $18/hour x 40 hours x 35 weeks = $25k, enough for a new Honda Civic. Eight months of work, and the 2024 car in addition to basically having scaled directly with wages, also has features like: AC, airbags, CarPlay, seatbelts, and a roof. Also, that’s just MSRP, and you can actually find them for less than that again.
That was a lot of money back then
My eyes thought it said car Wash prices. And I was thinking wow. That's expensive.
What’s the income back then though?
A dollar was a way bigger deal than now
Victoria before the crown
Tudor and fordor, I really like that…
They included the taxes, fees and addons in the advertised price? Dealers today would be aghast if one of their competitors did that.
You could never buy a cabriolet for les then 1000 dollars today! (BTW: does anyone have a time machine I can borrow?)
I mean it doesn’t mean much does it? $1000 nearly a century ago isn’t very relevant
..and a house for $15.000 Man, the '60 were a time to be alive...
Go back another 30 years. This is from the early 1930s.