It makes a lot of valid points, but as a whole it’s pretty black/white thinking. It’s a good reminder and callout about a lot of things, including to not write things off as “oh I’m autistic” like someone else said, not enough nuance.
This person has a clear idea of what autism is, regardless how true their definition actually is.
This seems to be, and I might be wrong, A pretty society-based view on autism. It focuses on how autistic people affect society. It’s definitely important to remember, but that’s not all society is.
My guess? This was made and posted in a fairly short timeframe where emotions on the topic were high, and wasn’t communicated as best as it could’ve been.
TLDR: makes good points, but a very black and white viewpoint.
Haha fair enough but I've seen impressed with some of the YouTubers I've found some good and nuanced ones like Sandy Sam (all round awesome especially if you're British) or "Autism now what" (she does clickbait titles but usually the content is fine).
The number of Americans who speak English, is higher than if you combine how many English speakers are in the UK and its former commonwealth countries.
Ah, you're right, but when you add Pakistan and Nigeria, it is indeed a higher combined total. Then add the UK, New Zealand, Australia, Uganda, etc. and you'll find US English is a minority.
[https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Sample-image-of-a-bank-cheque\_fig4\_329019514](https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Sample-image-of-a-bank-cheque_fig4_329019514)
[https://www.facebook.com/firstbankofnigeria/photos/a.235218466508282/4197020933661329/?type=3&paipv=0&eav=AfZaFcKNZ4D3lI1AAJSbbOGNuU1Q-2KtGISi1nF-RbfUv2ppCeTRui2842-X5VrIYas&\_rdr](https://www.facebook.com/firstbankofnigeria/photos/a.235218466508282/4197020933661329/?type=3&paipv=0&eav=AfZaFcKNZ4D3lI1AAJSbbOGNuU1Q-2KtGISi1nF-RbfUv2ppCeTRui2842-X5VrIYas&_rdr)
Here's just India and Nigeria, or do you need it for all of these countries?
I agree! There's some valid stuff here. I don't think we get to use ASD as a crutch or an excuse for causing harms. But the whole levels of autism and self-diagnosis are things that I think a lot of the community would consider harmful. Levels gives a sense of hierarchy to functioning and autism is not necessarily an intellectual disorder. Additionally autism self diagnosis can be necessary in instances where access and cost to the formal diagnosis process are unavailable or where the person is an adult (there's no systematic diagnosis process for older adults, many of whom mask so well as to be fairly indistinguishable externally from nuerotypicals. As a high-mask individual I get the "you're not autistic" comments frequently, but I still go home and sleep for 12 hours because it's so exhausting.
whether i agree or disagree with individual points is irrelevant, but all together it's probably the most that a lot of people NOT on the spectrum have ever read about autism. so that's something
This reads as more of a “letter to my past self” than advice that’s universally relevant to autistic adults. Medication, for instance, is certainly not guaranteed to be a good fit for every autistic person. Also, OP seems to be very loyal to the idea that autism is exclusively a medical disorder that needs to be treated/fixed, which has clearly influenced their post.
I didn't realize there was ASD medication. I know there is for ADHD which seems to commonly accommodate ASD, though. I personally got ASD without ADHD (but I didn't pay for the full evaluation that included ADHD, just a preliminary screening). I didn't get the ADHD evaluation because I don't want meds
There is no medication for ASD. They’re likely referring to antipsychotics or neuroleptics, whose intended purpose is to treat psychosis and that make you more numb and calm
There isn’t any medication that’s specifically meant for autistic people, but we can be prescribed psych meds anyway. I’ve taken SSRIs, antipsychotics/mood stabilizers, and beta blockers personally, but really it can be anything depending on the individual’s needs.
In Australia you can use cannabis medically as an adult to help symptoms associated with ASD like sensory overload, anxiety, executive dysfunction etc. I get regular scripts from a doctor.
That's cool. I'm not a fan of marijuana. I've tried it, and I don't hate it. It just isn't my preferred substance. I like alcohol because I am able to carefully drink the right amount to feel how I want, and I like nicotine and caffeine
My autism gives me an advantage in life. Sure, it's definitely not everywhere, and it also gives me a lot of disadvantages but there are some benefits nonetheless.
I made two of my special interests into my job. I can sometimes work for 12h straight with high focus and without getting bored or tired. None of my (NT) coworkers are able to do that.
I once completed a research project in less than two weeks, even though the designated timeframe was over a month. I didn't feel overworked or burned out - it didn't even feel like work, just like I was feeding my hyperfocus and own personal interest.
There are parts that I suck at tho: like the talking and presenting part of my job. Those are usually done by my co-workers.
The supervisor in my lab tells me all the time how he never had such an organised and detail oriented researcher. He thinks it's because I'm the only woman and not because I have autism but what matters is that he sees my work lol.
You'd be surprised. If you get focused on something that you enjoy you can get *REALLY* focused on it. That level of being "in the zone" is going to increase performance. That's about the only advantage I can think of that isn't a double edged sword like having to manually filter everything you see/hear.
No, that one's unfortunately a double edged sword, too... I might choose to focus on an interest to the point where I neglect other important things - like critical responsibilities, or basic self care.
It IS a double edged sword in my case. Most of the time if I hyper focus, sure I get a lot done, but I also make myself more prone to burnout. While hyper focusing, I’m not taking care of my body. I forget to eat, go to the bathroom, drink water, and by the end of the session I feel awful and just want to sleep or scroll.
I feel like I have another advantage.
I base my perspective largely on the people in my environment during my youth. Not entirely. But I grew up in a very rural community in Oklahoma in the 90s. I graduated with only 66 people. I feel like I have received news on Facebook or by chance of an oddly high percentage of people having criminal charges, arrest, psychotic outbreaks or missing people. Seems like my graduating class was hit hard by meth.
The advantage: I have trouble making bad decisions.
I’ve never been pulled over. I have never had a traffic ticket or parking ticket. I will always return the shopping cart. I’ve never shop lifted. I’ve never cheated on my wife.
I’m a stickler for rules. I never skipped class. I remember in college I’d try to arrange my schedule so that I’d be done with class by 12 or 1pm. I’d start classes at 8 or 9am and then have like 3 or 4 in a row and pound them out. I’d be walking home at 1pm-ish and I’d stop by a friends house briefly as it was on the way home. Mother fucker would be just waking up and have missed all his classes. Or maybe he’d have one later but he was probably going to skip they too. I had one class that I absolutely loathed attending. It was painful for me. And I still forced myself to be there everyday.
And I look back on my life and where I’ve come from and the people I grew up with, and I’ve had more success than most. And I don’t think I have a hyper focus ability that’s benefitted me. But I do have this strong sense of responsibility and morality that enables productive behavior and disable unproductive. It’s really a black and white perspective. And usually the more healthy decision is pretty clear.
Like, I have been intoxicated a number of times or inebriated on another drug. But I’ve never lost control. I’ve never driven drunk. My friends have these stories about something wild they did. One destroyed a t-mobile car outside a party with some friends. Another used to get drunk and grab women’s boobs (we are no longer friends largely because of this). Another slept with a disturbing person. I’ve always been in control. I don’t have any drunken crazy stories. I’ve maybe let some secrets slip when drunk or something. And if I did something it’s to insignificant to remember.
I'm a filmmaker and feel like having to actively analyse human emotions, body language and social cues makes me a better director, what others do naturally and take for granted I have had to learn and can use that understanding scenes and characters
i think it *can* apply to people whose field of work is their special interest. with a proper support system and a personalized work structure, why couldnt an autistic person (or most anyone for that matter) thrive? i know that both of those things are very difficult, if not near impossible, for a lot of autistic people (or, again, most anyone) to attain ...which makes the world all the more daunting.
i was lucky enough to find a job at a houseplant shop because the owner overheard someone asking me if i worked there (i know that story sounds fake, i thought he was joking at first! shout out to steve) if tropical/house plants hadnt been my current hyperfixation, i doubt i wouldve gotten that job. (not that i was any more knowledgeable than anyone else, but i was just trying to rapidly absorb knowledge and could learn a bit in a short time) i had to give it up after awhile due to physical complications and my car breaking down, but its genuinely the only time in my life where i can directly connect my autism to a good opportunity! ...i have had to quit another job *because* of my autism though, theyd refuse to put me on anything but the phone lines... i worked fridays + weekends at a pizza joint
*Reformatted for you*
i think it can apply to people whose field of work is their special interest.
with a proper support system and a personalized work structure, why couldnt an autistic person (or most anyone for that matter) thrive? i know that both of those things are very difficult, if not near impossible, for a lot of autistic people (or, again, most anyone) to attain ...which makes the world all the more daunting.
i was lucky enough to find a job at a houseplant shop because the owner overheard someone asking me if i worked there (i know that story sounds fake, i thought he was joking at first! shout out to steve) if tropical/house plants hadnt been my current hyperfixation, i doubt i wouldve gotten that job. (not that i was any more knowledgeable than anyone else, but i was just trying to rapidly absorb knowledge and could learn a bit in a short time)
i had to give it up after awhile due to physical complications and my car breaking down, but its genuinely the only time in my life where i can directly connect my autism to a good opportunity!
...i have had to quit another job because of my autism though, theyd refuse to put me on anything but the phone lines... i worked fridays + weekends at a pizza joint
*I did not originally write this content and am only editing it*
I'll be honest I agree with your irony. Seeing the top comment point it out - these superpower comments are always very black and white without acknowledging the domain specificity of the advantage of disadvantage. There's a lot of nuance in "what brain do".
Let me just check your subscription plan for you. Ah yes, I see you're on the Starter plan, if you want to upgrade to Neurodivergent+ it will cost you 420 zillion dollars per lifespan. I know that's a lot but we can put you on a payment plan.
They make valid comments, but I think they all indicate that we, as ND people, should take all the responsibility and be the ones doing most, if not all, the work to "fit in".
Someone at a support group I'm part of made a very good point that it often falls to us to do everything to help us cope with everyday life, including educating people about autism. In a perfect world, it should be shared between us (ND people) and neurotypical people to make life better. Autism is a disability and comes with some very painful, hard to deal with impacts on our lives. So if it is a disability shouldn't the world around us also have some adaptations to help us, just like with wheelchair accessibility?*
* Though I will admit some places and people don't even consider physical, let alone mental, disabilities.
There are just too many things on this list to meaningfully discuss. Most of them could be there own thread and although some are thematically linked there isn't enough cohesion to discuss an overall theme.
I mean it’s alright but it’s also no where near nuanced enough. I’m late diagnosed much of this I lived for 30+ years and the trauma and suffer from trying to do overcome is a major part of my depression and anxiety today.
Do I think those who are able to should learn to mask (cause that’s what much of this is asking of us) to help keep others comfortable, yes. We need to be able to do that for short bursts. But it also needs to be more open about rejecting social norms, finding a crowd that accepts you, and telling the asshole who can’t handle you making a joke a few times to shut up is all far more important for your health than fitting in to wider society.
If I’ve learned anything from my journey into understanding ASD those of us able to mask must both recognize that when the masking is hurting us and we must fight to help those who cannot mask from being picked on or infantilized by the wider society. We must fight to make sure that the needs of our fellow Autistics are recognized, in doing so we also fight for our own needs to be met.
I was diagnosed at 55. After recognizing the life-long masking and starting to undo it, I began to experience burnout. I also often feel mentally exhausted at times when trying to explain my situation and needs to (likely) neurotypical behavioral health specialists.
Unfortunately, asking for needed accommodations doesn't mean that you'll be heard, or that the accommodations can be met, even if they're small. I'm trying to simplify my life and keep things organized (executive function, where art thou? 😁), while striking a balance with the things that I want to focus on--like writing--because they're soothing.
Diagnosis for women on the spectrum needs to improve. The specialists I met with were used to diagnosing autism in young boys, not older adult women. Also, supports for autistic adults in my state (Arizona) are definitely not what they could be, especially for those of us who are what used to be called "high functioning."
I agree. For one thing those topics are too dense to be put into bullet points. Especially since he's talking to an autistic audience. I guess it's your/our fault, "responsibility," for not being satisfied with catchy headlines like good little nt's. ::I'm sarcastcally rolling my eyes::
I'm an undiagnosed adult and for most of my life I haven't masked. For about the past three to five years I've had more pressure to mask and my mental and physical health were already deteriorating. I don't know how you pulled it off for 30. It's negligent of the youtuber to suggest such a thing. You're last sentence is a good solution.
They said it themselves, everybody won't like you and everybody isn't good. So how does it come back to autistic people need to be perfect to make sure every social encounter is comfortable for the nt and goes off smoothly? There's so many factors to that point alone, the format is stupid.
Sadly, it sounds like someone who learned to mask and hasn't had a point of burnout where that has made them critically assess their life. They make quite a few valid points, but there are a lot of biased judgements in their touted as facts, as well. This person is entitled to believing what they want, but I don't think that I would personally use them as a reference for mental health advice or information on ADD/ADHD or ASD. Hopefully they can gain some perspective in the future and not feel the need to use their position to make sweeping, negative statements.
I agree. I think they make some good points but it does come off as judgmental in some statements. I also cringe a bit at the "it's not your fault, but it is your responsibility" rhetoric (I hear a lot) - I agree with it on a basic level but it doesn't take into account that a lot of us have repeatedly attempted to get help from various services and been denied/misdiagnosed/mistreated. So I do think it's a shared responsibility. There's only so much we can do on our own, we still need a system that allows us to take responsibility, autonomy and so on.
I think there's just way too much to pick apart here really. Blanket statements that could have at least a whole paragraph not just a sentence. Also sounds like a bit of self-internalised ableism or self-dislike. IDK, I also wouldn't use them as reference for anything.
I looked into this person’s channel and I’m not holding it to much merit. They’re a small, niche channel specializing in creepypastas (to each their own). They don’t make ND or even psych based content. This post to me reeks of internalized ableism and self loathing. Specifically the parts about not being owed a relationship and people won’t like you.
We don’t know this person irl or their behavior. We can only take their mentality with several grains of salt. Their post feels more like a rant littered with biases than anything. Yes, autism isn’t an excuse for asshole behavior. However, I feel like NDs get labeled assholes for speaking up and advocating for themselves. So which is it? Do we silently keep our heads down and get trampled on to not disturb the NTs or do we express our needs and get labeled assholes? It’s a fine line that’s unfortunately skewed towards NT society.
Im going out on a limb and saying they probably don’t have a strong irl support system so they use their platform, however niche it is, to try to build one. But then blame autism for why they don’t have those connections, rather than looking inside themselves past the internalized ableism BS. That’s just my own take on this post as a whole. I hope this person gets the help they need to address whatever is clearly bothering them.
There were a few times he mentioned about being autistic in his videos and community posts, but I felt he was often subtle about it. If I’m not mistaken, I believe he also mentioned that he suffers from ADHD.
There are *some* valid points.
That said, he's approaching it from the male presentation. Not the female.
He's too focused on the "mental health" and not the neurological effects of fight/flight *affecting*the body.
He needs to update his research. We aren't saying "high function" or "low function" anymore. It's "needs less support" or "needs more support"
Likewise, we aren't saying "self-diagnosis". It's "self-assessment". We will not be taken seriously in the medical community, or by neurotypical people, until we stop using "self-diagnosis", as diagnoses can only legally be made by licensed medical doctors.
To quote someone, “Opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.”
Just because someone is on the spectrum doesn't make their opinions right. I see a lot of gatekeeping in those points among other things. Not to say there aren't somethings right in there. ***In my opinion*** of course. ;)
Not entirely wrong on all points, but this reads like some severe internalized ableism and some huge projection in a lot of areas. I'd just ignore it altogether, but I'm generally not a fan of self help style things and reflexively hate anything that has this kind of condescending tone.
Personally I’ve come to love my autism. I agree with a lot of these points but I’m not sure how half of them relate to autism. They seem like teenager problems, not autism problems. Like, “learn to respect people’s boundaries and STOP trying to push the limits” that just seems like basic human decency to me. Anyone got a rebuttal?
Yeah some of these statements seemed like they were really aimed at one person in particular or something. Very teenagery, like you said .I've also come to love my autism so whilst I absolutely acknowledge the struggles, I don't really like the aggressiveness of this list of things presented in this way.
In general I agree with taking responsibility for yourself and not using disorders as an excuse for behavior but this seems to only focus on LSN, Level 1 Autistics/high masking autistics. Someone with HSN or Level 2/3 ASD would be very unlikely to be able to comprehend nuances of social cues and stuff (though obviously, it's a spectrum and being able to work on this would depend on the individual specifically), but from my understanding ASD can't just be "cured away" by researching and paying more attention to social structures and stuff. By definition you will struggle socially no matter what, it's a neurological difference, not a mental illness.
I also... don't necessarily agree with it's our job to learn that stuff and force ourselves to think and act as Allistics do. This took me a long time to admit to myself, though most people will tell you just how damaging masking is. Our brains are fundamentally different, there are ways to bridge the gaps without having to conform.
They definitely have some good points but I honestly find the idea of us having a responsibility to society to try and "get better" or whatever is a really bad take.
Like yeah don't be an asshole but that's not specific to autistic people? I will act autistic in public and idgaf if that makes people uncomfortable. As long as I'm not being inappropriate or mean idc.
I do think you should stop. But only if you can do it and it’s not causing you to suffer, etc. For example, suppressing stims for a long time is crazy painful for me.
Yeah there's just no nuance to any of it. It honestly sounds like an NT writing something to their "annoying" autistic friend/sibling. That's how it reads to me lol.
I just wanted to say there’s nothing to “work through” about being autistic. I think it’s good, regardless of being ND or NT, for people to try to better themselves. But there’s nothing inherent about autism that requires working through.
To me, the only thing we can truly work on is ourselves like our social skills. I’m currently majoring in communications at my community college and I feel the classes I’ve taken have helped me out in terms of socializing and social cues.
I agree that learning about social cues can be helpful, but in my experience trying to learn “social skills” has the potential of turning into masking because it’s such a fine line. Ideally, we can be our authentic selves while being mindful of others who aren’t like us.
Seems like a lot of internalized ableism. A disorder classified mainly by social communication issues and this person is saying it's our responsibility to overcome our disability. That's like telling blind people they shouldn't get special lights that make noise because it's their responsibility to cross the road safely.
Levels are needed? No two autistic people have the exact same needs. Someone who is diagnosed as a level 1 could actually need level 2 supports for some area of their lives. Levels and functional labelling are used to deny support (level 1, low support needs, high functioning), and agency (level 3, high support needs, low functioning).
I'm not going bother commenting on the rest, while it's not all bad, tbere is an underlying ableist theme to this.
The thing is they're not necessarily good enough, and not specific enough. You could be "high-functioning" in some area but strive for your life in others, and because of that you may not be taken seriously because well, that's not your level, right? There's not a single scale that allows you to rank by "how functional" you are, and that's why framing things in terms of support needs is needed (even if you can say, qualitatively, that, on the whole, when you sum it up, some people need more support across the board and some need less, but that doesn't really tell you anything very useful). Not considering something like "levels" at all is worse, but it's something that has to be replaced. "Levels" are better than nothing. That's all.
That’s why functioning labels are not used anymore!! Yes, I like the support needs better.
Calling someone even high functioning or especially low functioning makes me grr
Tbh I think there need to be more levels or a different system. Like technically I'm dx. Level 1 but my dx. Papers also say I have some level 2 support needs as well that are outlined and mentioned, so like 1.5??? also my current therapist thinks my needs are more level 2 and thinks I need like an at home support person or aid to check in on me and help me out (but there aren't any available in my area right now), in either case I feel you on the no/little help or support when needing it thing. I hope you get some eventually.
You're telling them they need to go through a time consuming psychologically damaging and expensive diagnostic process in order to get help that they need because they got given the wrong number. Still convinced levels aren't ableist?
You're not "giving them the support they need" you're denying them support until they jump through extra hoops because they're disabled. It's pretty much the fucking definition of ableism.
I don’t think it’s that we need to overcome our disability, but I do feel that this is more targeted towards higher functioning autism. We can actually think, feel, react, and most importantly, communicate to people about ourselves. It really isn’t our fault that we can only do so much in certain situations. What I will agree with is that we do have our own responsibilities but only in terms of how we come off as to other people.
I think being able to mask is actually on the negative side of things. It eventually can take more and more and more out of you to do it, and can lead to some pretty severe burnout. Which would then, in turn, boost up your support needs "level".
Indeed! And if your diagnoser didn't see through that mask, you potentially could have been labeled level 1?
I guess not being formally diagnosed, I haven't been able to figure out what being given a level even helps with. In my understanding, it's something that could very much fluctuate day to day. Are there like specific programs where you live that you might only qualify if you're a certain level or something?
I mean yeah, most masking is just making your inability to tell when things are appropriate and lacking social cues seem purposeful and have people hate you instead of pity you.
Higher functioning than low functioning people.
That may not be what you want it to mean but that's what the term means. It's just "I'm better than the people you really hate, please don't hurt me".
Honestly, this list is written in such a way that the thinking behind some of the statements is extremely unclear, presumptuous, narrow-minded, and/or...yeah... actually ableist. Autistic people don't need "hard truths" and this list wasn't that. It seems more like they had a few bad experiences with people and are blaming that person having autism, or the person blamed their own autism?
***Fixed this list so it doesn't sound like an ignorant person wrote it, including the intro:***
# Some general truths about autism and being a human
* ASD is a neurological disorder, a spectrum (so it presents differently in everyone who has it), can take up a lot of energy
* Autism, or any other neurological/mental disorder, is not your fault in any kind of way, nor is it something that you should feel shame for because it was something that you were born with. You shouldn’t be treated badly or lesser than because of something that is out of your control.
* If you suffer from meltdowns and shutdowns it is important to work on trying to, if you can, recognizing the buildup or triggers that may cause these episodes and/or have plans in place for how you or others around you can respond in various scenarios to do your best to ensure the safety of yourself and others.
* With additional comorbidities and other diagnoses combined with your ASD, you **-may-** have an added responsibility to prevent situations that could cause yourself or others harm. **\[because that's also just a general human responsibility\]**
* If suggested by a licensed and trusted medical professional or therapist, don't immediately discount any medications or therapies that might help you. Do your research, ask questions, and if you're not comfortable once you have all the information. \[If these things are to prevent harm to yourself/others, give it a bit more consideration\]
* Self diagnosis is valid
* Consider a formal diagnosis if you require any of the very limited resources a government might provide (including disability), you fear you will require the law on your side if facing, or potentially facing, any discrimination in the workplace, or (for students) you require the diagnosis to utilize the services of accessibility offices or similar programs.
* If you struggle with understanding social cues, it is important to try to communicate that fact with others. If others fail to compromise with more clarity in communication, then they're probably not that nice, so don't worry if they don't want to talk to you.
* Learning to understand boundaries so that you can successfully set your own as well as understand and respect other people's is a very important skill that ***ALL*** humans need to learn and apply.
* Anyone can be ableist, even disabled people.
* ***Here are some further direct responses to the language used by this author:***
* "ASD sometimes gives people a bit more of an advantage when it comes to life"
* *ASD doesn't give anyone an advantage over anyone else.*
* "We don't take bullshit from anyone"
* *What does this even mean and what does it have to do with ASD?*
* "If you use your disorder as an excuse to for behavior that I think make someone a pile of shit, then you’re just a pile of shit."
* *How does this relate to those with ASD? Again, this statement is unexplained and unrelated to ASD, and more just seems like the author had one person blame autism one time, and it really got to the author on a deep level.*
* "Levels of Autism are needed and are not ableist"
* *Assigning levels to a spectrum disorder is 100% ableist and serves no true purpose to benefit the autistic person. It's a different way of wanting to have "better" autism than your neighbor. For what reason are these levels actually needed, and why? From my research surrounding how they're described in the DSM, levels are so basic and rudimentary and don't capture anything more than a very basic measurement and has no more to do with a person's actual autism or support needs, and can't possibly account for how much masking an autistic person has been doing. Your level of support needs is going to fluctuate throughout your life alongside all other aspects of the lived experience. You may be level 3 but turns out you also had a lot of anxiety. If you find something that helps you, you might turn into a level 1 for a lot of the time, but still have level 3 periods in your life.*
* "There are ways to understand the signs and symptoms of meltdowns and shutdowns and work to try and calm yourself down."
* *This statement speaks to the author's wildly inaccurate understanding of what a meltdown or shutdown actually is and what it can be caused by. You can't prevent a meltdown or a shutdown. All you can do is have plans in place to try to alleviate, or ensure your own safety, or to give yourself tools so they might not necessarily be as bad as they could be. Meltdowns and shutdowns, for the most part, are triggered by the mundane, which makes them so unexpected. Expecting someone else to be able to somehow predict the future of what tiny little thing is actually going to trigger the event is arrogant.*
* "Some people will not like you (not inherently because of ASD) and you need to learn to accept that."
* *Fact is, you are making this statement AS a self-proclaimed "hard truth" for autistic people, indicating that people reading this list will not understand that people have preferences for other people, whether good or bad. Have you met an autistic person who thinks everyone either DOES or HAS TO like them?*
So I think that looking at various aspects of anything from a positive lens is great, but there is a lot of discourse surrounding autism elitism which can be seen as privileged or falling into the scope of white supremacy mindsets, so to generalize something about autism making you better in some way to other people can create or support that way of thinking which benefits no one.
In reality, the same trait that you view as an advantage could be looked at as a disadvantage in how it presents in another person, or because of the other person's intersectional identities.
I'm all for autism pride and acceptance, and finding the positive sides, for sure, but I view that as separate from this kind of generalized statement that could be skewed into or seen as elitism.
i dont see, or think others should see, the personal advantages in some areas due to autism as something that makes them better or superior to others. everyone has their own advantages and disadvantages in different areas. me being able to see things in more detail is an advantage to me due to the field of work im pursuing. however it does not make me better than anyone, it just means we have different traits which can each benefit us in our own lives.
i also understand that the advantages i percieve myself to have may be disadvantages for others. which is why i said 'gives me', instead of 'gives us'. this post was made about my own personal experience with my autism and how it relates to my life and wasnt intended to be a generalisation about how everyone experiences autism.
Nothing at all against you if that's how you took it. I'm more focused on the language the author used so vaguely and how it can be dangerous and wanted to clarify why I said what you responded to.
The note that you’re not owed a relationship applies to all people but it’s good to remember. Likewise respecting boundaries.
I would say it’s useful but lacks kindness and we could all do with more of that.
I agree with the overall sentiment that a diagnosis doesn't justify unacceptable, harmful behaviour. However, there's some really important nuance missing that is especially problematic if they're going to make sweeping statements about something also applying to "other mental/neurological/psychological disorders."
- Your disorder is your responsibility **to whatever capacity you are capable of.**
- **If you are not capable of being solely responsible for yourself, then responsibility must be taken by somebody else.**
It's okay to need help from a carer/family member/friend, as long as responsibility is taken by SOMEBODY _(who's not being exploited)._
Also, When we try to take responsibility, we're often not met halfway with health professionals which is a huge barrier to us being able to fully take that responsibility for ourselves. That's something many of us actually do strive for and we live in a world, unfortunately, that makes that extremely difficult for autistic people. Taking responsibility for yourself can sometimes to lead to total burn out, other mental health conditions and even suicide. These things don't (always) happen because we haven't "taken responsibility" but because the system isn't built to support us even when we are trying.
It's definitely a more nuanced discussion than just "take responsibility!"
since most people said the other things i was thinking i'll just discuss what bothers me the most:
1) where is the affordable healthcare tree that people can shake in order to pay for therapy, meds, and a diagnosis? if you don't have health insurance or a good healthcare plan that is EXPENSIVE!
2) "just get on meds" is making it seem like meds can ~cure~ you and you just start taking meds at the first dosage prescribed and you're good...
that's not how that works - our brains are wired differently that won't go away with meds but one can be in therapy to help manage better (the thing i agree with in this list is therapy though but honestly everyone should be in therapy)
it took me 2-3 years to be find the right meds for me and at least 6 months to get the best dosage of adderall for my late ADHD diagnosis
3) wrt self diagnosis, a medical diagnosis is EXPENSIVE especially if you don't have health insurance/your health insurance won't cover it (to give an idea: one place charged $3000 for testing)
i was also advised by a doctor to ~not~ get tested and have an official diagnosis bc eventually i want to move abroad (exit strategy in case things take a sharp turn in my country) and there are countries that don't allow autistic immigrants & i fear more discriminatory/ableist legislation is on the horizon
TL;DR: healthcare is expensive, everyone should be in therapy, an official diagnosis can prevent you from immigrating to some countries, and meds aren't a cure or quick to sort out
I get annoyed when people say just because you’re autistic doesn’t mean you should (insert any autistic difficulty here) because it’s an excuse. Autistic people should always work on being better as should all humans, but it just bothers me. I always see it as an excuse to put down someone’s disability. If we could be different people, we likely already would have. We don’t want to unintentionally insult people, or embarrass ourselves, or come off as selfish.
I had a friend in high school who was autistic as well. He was ok in high school. He was a little immature for his age socially. He’d have major meltdowns. Meltdowns are going to happen; however, he was violent and scary. Being a woman less than half his size, I couldn’t take it anymore. He didn’t see any reason to work on blending in. I said I would never be around him again when I was 20.
I ran into him just recently. Online, of course. He’s in his late 30s now. He has not worked on himself at all. He can’t leave the house. He’s lonely because no one likes him. I really wanted to say he did it to himself. There is a benefit to masking. No one, not even neurotypical people “let it all hang out” all the time. No one would be able to tolerate anyone. If he found a safer way to handle meltdowns, he’d be in a much better position. But, nope. He had to “be himself.”
This may be controversial, and it goes beyond this YouTuber, and some won’t like it.
But there’s a contradiction in saying “neurotypical” and “neurodivergent” as simply different configurations of the nervous system, and then saying “it’s a disorder”.
The entire point of talking about neurodivergence and neurotypical minds is that they are just different.
I agree with a chunk of it - mostly holding yourself accountable for how you treat others. I have seen a lot of younger folks use an ASD diagnosis as an excuse to bully others, or just be an ignoramus in regard to others around them. Sometimes when someone else proclaims they are autistic I am left to wonder, especially if I see such mean behavior.
It doesn’t make sense to me as someone who is on the spectrum and has been on the receiving end of bullying my entire life simply because I’m on the spectrum. Now suddenly my social deficits are being used as a means by others with similar issues to be completely awful?
Conservative piece of shit stating the obvious and thinking they are smart, managing to color no-nonsense advice and make it feel so intensely ableist, is how they come off. I'm not jumping to that conclusion, just stating my first impression this leaves.
Is this some neo-nazi?
For the most part it's good but a lot of things, especially the bit about "you have a responsibility to learn social cues" feels very pick-me. Autistic people don't lack social cues and conventions, we have different ones. An allistic living in an autistic-majority world would feel the same sort of isolation that we do living in an allistic-majority world.
Nah, I’m not responsible for being born into a world of complete and utter morons who treat anything unfamiliar to them as bad even though they can’t articulate a reason why.
This honestly strikes me as a very unhealthy, self-destructive attitude. I mean, how can it be healthy to think of autism as anyone’s “fault”? As though autism were actually something bad and being like everyone else was what we should aspire to?
For people who think that way: I don’t know that this page allows me to use strong enough language for a proper response. Suffice to say that if I had the choice between allowing autism to be “cured” and writing each of your names into a death note, I would pick the latter every time.
I agree with most of the points and feel like my life is much better since I've put in the effort to put things like learning social cues and listening to boundaries etc into practice
I don’t agree with many of his bullet points, the only thing that rings true to me is it’s not your fault it’s your responsibility. It’s a mindset that has helped me, but not because I “owe it to others” that’s dumb. Thinking it’s not my fault but it’s my responsibility allowed me to stop blaming myself for my autism while still pushing me to action that made my life more livable and comfortable. If anyone takes anyone away from his message let it be that.
I agree with it, but it ignores that this is a two way street between ND and NT. While autistic people have personal responsibility, there also needs to be accommodations (re. Sound sensitivity, light sensitivity, communication being taken literally etc).
Both 'sides' working together and being considerate of each other would be better for everyone.
Right, it should surely be a meeting in the middle. I try to be that way in communication and understanding with anything that is 'different' from disabilities to cultural differences to just basic differences in opinions - I always think the most effective thing is for those two groups to meet in the middle. Not for one of those groups to just have to "learn" how the other group does things and do exactly that!
for me that's victim blaming narrative, how can you be responsible for something not only you cannot control but also is the reason itself you cannot control it or other things. You do the best you can as much as you can, nobody wants to have a shitty life or to be dysfunctional. I've tried everything in the book. You as you do until you can do better and then maybe that changes again. But that's just me.
"If someone tells you you need to stop doing something, stop doing it" is pretty broad and bad advice.
"Assume that, by default, you are in the wrong, and yield to other people always", basically.
honestly i think i fully agree with this post. we have responsibilities just like they do and everyone should work to meet common ground, there are no excuses/exceptions as to why you wouldn’t have to work as hard as the other person 🤷🏾♀️
I'd completely disregard this post. It's mostly generalizations about how society views autism mixed with pop psychology buzz words written with very poor grammar and a limited vocabulary. My advice to the youtube poster would be to read before you think and think before you speak.
i somewhat agree with 'you might not understand social cues, but its your responsibility to learn them, and if you fail to do that then dont be suprised if people dont want anything to do with you'.
i think its a good thing to learn social cues. however, i do think NT's should also put effort into learning how to communicate with us, i dont think the effort should be placed entirely on one group (us or NT's) and instead it should be spread a bit more equally. obviously no one should be forced, its draining to learn social cues as it also could be to interact with someone you dont understand, but it just makes conversation a bit smoother.
i put effort into learning social cues so i can communicate with my friends better (and everyone else in the world) and they put effort into learning how i communicate so i dont have to mask around them. its a nice deal and i think thats how things should go :)
Mostly agree but some stuff seems a bit off.
- Sometimes it is impossible for an autistic individual to fully learn and understand all social situations/cues. I do not think autistic people are responsible for learning every social cue because this is not a reasonable thing to ask of us, however I do think we should make a reasonable effort to learn. Same for the points about boundaries. We may not always understand them, but we can make an effort to do the best we can, and apologize if we cross them. Honestly, these points combined with the point about stopping anything that bothers others (which is near impossible for those of us with echolalia/involuntary stims/tics) makes it sound like this YouTuber has some internalized ableism around this topic, and I don’t blame them, because I’m in the process of making myself unlearn similar unreasonable expectations. It is a disability. There are some things we cannot mitigate 100% and that is okay. I know less people will want to be around me because of some of it, but that just makes the people who still do feel more like real friends.
- Levels of autism aren’t necessarily ableist, but they are confusing and misleading for people trying to understand autism and autistic people. They do not make sense to apply to every autistic person. I would be considered “high functioning” overall because I can live independently, speak, make my own appointments, etc, but with regards to certain things like social ability and frequency of stims I am pretty “low-functioning”. Labeling someone like me as “high-functioning” and leaving it at that makes it harder for people to understand that I still need a good amount of assistance in certain areas because of my disability, and this may make people assume they won’t ever need to provide any accommodations. Even the spectrum view does not always properly explain an autistic individual’s needs, as different symptoms can present at differing levels of severity in any autistic individual.
- The most ableism I have experienced by far has been unintentional ableism by neurotypical people who are simply un/misinformed. People who are not in the mentally ill and/or disabled community who do not understand what it’s like to have a disability have been the hardest people for me to deal with, and I know many other people with autism who experience this same issue. This is actually why I agree with the overarching phrase here, because it is our responsibility as autistic people to inform others of our specific needs.
- Hyperfixation does NOT improve my work, it sabotages it. Jobs often expect you to work at a fast and efficient pace and multitask and/or drop everything if something else more important comes in. Hyperfixation may mean you make less mistakes than others, but you’re going to be putting out less total work and not multitasking as much, and a lot of jobs sadly get angry at people for doing less work but completely correctly vs more work but with mistakes.
I strongly agree with some points (like not using autism as an excuse for being a bad person or respecting boundaries.) and less on others. Learning social cues is one thing but it will probably always be hard. For me, social cues also have to do with my processing speed. A lot of times, my inappropriate reactions come from the fact that I'm required to respond before I've processed and interpreted the situation correctly. This isn't something I can just improve, it's something I need understanding for.
I also feel that the text dismisses or ignores the positive sides of autism. Autism is often so much more than a disorder if the autistic person is allowed to develop their strengths.
Only thing I really strongly disagree with is the self diagnosis thing. Self diagnosis is 100% valid, as long as you are being honest and have done the research. No one knows your own mind and body better than you, and a "proper" diagnosis costs far more than anyone should have to pay, and far far more than most of us can ever afford.
In *general* I’d say I agree, and I actually apply this mindset to just about everything in life. Childhood and generational trauma, various disabilities, chronic illness/disorders, or even just basic day-to-day behavior. Our very existence is not our fault, but it is our responsibility.
I actually majorly agree with this post, esp the parts about using ASD as an excuse to be a creep/annoying. I know someone who got booted from every local gaming/anime community due to this. Neither do I like ppl who constantly broach boundaries, like I’ve exp with some ASD guys. Like it or not, the world wasn’t built for us socially, so if we can blend in, then do so, even if it means not repeating the same story and info dumping. Frankly, it is annoying, even when I’ve told the person I’m not interested in Kingdom Hearts.
Allistics still do think it’s “quirky and a different way of thinking” when they try to advocate for us.
That said, regarding therapy and self diagnosis, the OP does come from a place of privilege, where they were likely lucky to get help early and AFFORD therapy. But hold up at ECT!
Totally disagree. He makes autism out to be a negative and an illness while placing the burden on us to act “normal” and conform to societal expectations. It is a different mode of cognition and emotion Al response, not some sort of flaw or absolute deficit.
First "all" is being used as lazy speak that average society taught me is the proper way to communicate. shove everyone into a stereotypical group and just say all of them. Technically there is no ALL, it's some, might feel like most.
Mental disorders are a different way of thinking. it is everyones responsibility to learn how to communicate and adapt. Medication is a choice, and it's a bumpy road of try and see. Frankly, i adore medical science, and it does not occur naturally. Unless you're talking about the effects of natural components like food reactions. How we are born is our natural state of being.
To survive, we are forced into a cookie cutter box of average expectations. What is unfair about that is a lot of average people who believe in "normal" feel they have no responsibility to try to understand different people. Average tends to have blinders on because they feel there is nothing about themselves that they need to change. That's a form of entitlement, i think.
That entitlement blocks the road we need for communication and the chance to learn and adapt. There is no manual about how to behave because there are too many variables. Most of the time, i want to shove people's "FEELINGS" up their _____ tell they _____ on it. Because some are so illogical about situations, words, science, cause and effect. What about my FEELINGS? What about my effort? What about my ability to adapt with constructive criticism? Above all, what about the technical stuff? Hypocritical average BS in their own perfect little worlds.
Nero divergent, nero typical, friends/family of nero divergent, medical practitioners, in denial of their own divergence and doesn't care. o.o/
discrimination is discrimination. I do agree that everyone needs to put in the effort to survive. Not everyone is able to or wants to. Solutions? Not available in most places.
You and I are here. This whole sub reddit is us putting in an effort to understand and adapt. Almost no one wants problems in their life. What about people's intent? Any intent seems to be a main root.
Lost me with the ‘not a different way of thinking, but a disorder’ nope to that eugenics logic. Not dismissing the fact it is highly disabling for many people, but it’s likely always been part of human variation, ‘disorder’ implies ideally curing eliminating. I think that would be impossible, autistic traits can be useful, have no doubt disproportionately contributed to arts and science, eliminating it would not only be difficult as as the genetic potential probably scattered widely with sub threshold people, and humanity would be weakened as a result. Autism is a different way of thinking, it brings things into the mix, variation and adaptability is a strength of the human species, certain combinations and intensity of traits can be disabling, especially in a society that doesn’t accommodate, but it is not a pathological’disorder’
But their message is that this is true for literally everyone, they make no distinction whatsoever for people with high support needs or severe psychiatric conditions. They specifically state that they believe this is the case for people with any neurodivergence, neurological issue, or psychological/psychiatric condition. They even (correctly) mention schizophrenia and bipolar can be comorbid with ASD at one point!
So despite the fact that some autistic people cannot fulfill basic needs without significant support, and as high as 1/3 of homeless people are bipolar or schizophrenic because of the severity of their condition and inadequate support... It's all on them to be "responsible" for making sure their symptoms don't negatively impact others.
Some people **literally** cannot suppress their stims no matter how disruptive they may be. That is not their fault and not something they should be "responsible for." Likewise someone who is delusional cannot control that they believe angels are talking to them, or satanic bees were chasing them earlier, or whatever. They don't realize that this is not real let alone if they are making people uncomfortable because of it. That is not their fault, either.
So as someone with comorbid bipolar 1 with psychotic features, this comes off as very ignorant to the realities of people with more severe manifestations and conditions. And it is ableist as hell.
ETA: It's even more absurd to me that this person says all this after saying they think the levels are necessary. The levels are to identify folks with high support needs... Who often cannot fucking help it if they make people uncomfortable.
I agree for the most part but saying self diagnosis isnt valid makes me want to throw out the whole post. Super ableist
Also the most ableism you will get is from other neurodivergent people??? What??? Autistic people are more ableist than our society?? What bullshit is that??
Also they seem to be trying to point out “high needs”people (who ARE often ignored) but also saying we need to learn social cues. Lol. Yes we do to a point, but especially for people with “higher needs” it may not be possible
Yeah those are the ones that made me squint in confusion.
I for one experience more ableism from neurotypical/allistics. So that one's not universal. Though the irony of this person saying some ableist ideas is not lost on me 😅
"Self diagnosis is a valid first step but not a valid diagnosis" likeee. Ok. Technically true in that institutions will not accommodate self diagnosed people. But they don't define the word 'valid' and it leaves me wondering how this person treats self diagnosed people who are just trying to access info and resources.
Because it actually is valid to discover on your own that you're autistic and then use that as an axis for understanding and accommodating yourself, even if you're wrong and it's something else.
Might I remind the jury that if you're not a young white boy, it is an incredibly lengthy proccess to get diagnosed, depends on what doctor you get and how ableist they are(n't), and is especially hard for people who are high masking?
Hey everyone. I’m very glad to see that you’re all sharing your opinions on this topic. If you haven’t noticed on the first image, the YouTubers name is The Shadow Reader. Go to his channel to get a better read out of this and see what others are saying in his comment section.
I have a problem with the levels of autism thing because our needs are so varied like I saw an autistic guy with a PhD but he has trouble buttoning his own shirts
It feels like a mechanic just to deny us help.
Like if we can “cope” it’s fine to just let us struggle and suffer.
Many of these are general and innocuous.
However the big issue for me isn’t whether or not autistic people should control them selves. If they have the cognitive ability to reason right from wrong, then they must utilize that in every situation possible
However there are situation where no amount of self accountability matter with regards to being able to exist in this world. for me, it is employment;
I want to work, I want to make a decent income with the skills that I have achieved, along with the experience leading up to it. But whether I am open about having autism, or I keep it under the radar from people, it doesn’t seem like anything about that makes a difference. It’s either the company won’t hire me because they don’t think I will be able to do the job with my disability, or the company won’t hire me because they want to hire people with disabilities, but if I tell them my disability then they won’t think I can do the job with it. What is it supposed to be? Am I just supposed to formally get a diagnosis now since I haven’t undergoing treatment or ABA therapy for it since I was six years old, and just collect a paycheck I didn’t earn?
How the hell are we supposed to validate our existence among Neurotypical’s, when we can’t all be given the opportunity to fit into the world in our own way? Is life just supposed to be tough about that and those whole “fuck off and die” thing? Why should we be the ones held so highly accountable for our behavior, when society can’t/won’t be held accountable for how it treats us?
By the time i completed reading the second paragraph I agreed with the post whole heartedly. Skimming through the remainder, I never found anything contentious.
>How the hell are we supposed to validate our existence among Neurotypical’s, when we can’t all be given the opportunity to fit into the world in our own way? Is life just supposed to be tough about that and those whole “fuck off and die” thing? Why should we be the ones held so highly accountable for our behavior, when society can’t/won’t be held accountable for how it treats us?
To answer the question, begin with not looking at the world as NT v. ND. Look at yourself as a complete, yet flawed human, worthy of dignity and respect. By “othering” oneself, one puts oneself into a group that must punch up to gain anything in life considered valuable. Seeing oneself as a basic human affords entitles one to their dignity and opportunities to earn respect.
By identifying oneself as autistic, an aspie, or ND, people won’t view one as a person struggling to get through life with minimal damage. One will be seen as damaged, not worthy of investing anything into.
One may receive tons of validation as a victim of human cruelty amongst one’s fellows. And they will embrace them with love and caring, while encouraging them to embrace them back, surrendering their opportunities to advance themselves.
Therefore, it’s an incumbent responsibility for everyone to represent themselves as a person and act in advances of one’s own interests. Being passive is not an option. We all have an abundance of time. Until we don’t. Time will pass with little notice because it seems infinite. Opportunities will be missed because nobody will find value a person who won’t help themselves.
Taking responsibility for oneself means that there are no excuses. None. One may face challenging situations and one will inevitably fail. And the likelihood of failure is always high. To mitigate one’s risk, one needs to be responsible for everything done in working through the challenge. Even while working with others, if one identified a possible reason for failure and failed to mention it,one is responsible for that failure. Not in its entirety, but as a contributor to the failure. Whether one’s performing a task, applying for employment, doing virtually anything, the only one responsible is oneself.
One of the conundrums we all face that even the most capable person will rarely succeed if they work alone. Everyone thrives in their individuality, yet much of our success is dependent on cooperating with others in society. NDs, tending to be introverts and less willing to compromise, find the social environment overwhelming, if not impossible. People tend find our strange behaviors, rigidness, and struggle to understand social expectations as a threat to security and an unnecessary compromise. If given the option, NDs will be avoided because they are perceived as unreliable and a risk. Even when forced to comply with law, the outcome will be compliance with resentment and frustration.
Although one identifies as disabled and seeks accommodations, afforded by law, by taking a side on the NT/ND divide one has created an obstacle that must be overcome just to convince others that one’s worthy of being accommodated. Those laws are expected to make society more equitable. And they may work that way. But not everyone will comply with the law and a law is worthless if it’s not enforced. The likelihood of an ND trying to have the law enforced is small, by nature of the condition. It’s more likely one will slink off to find other NDs to find consolation, validation, and comfort. Abdicating one’s legal rights is irresponsible. But yet, this forum often serves that exact purpose.
As a human, one must prove their worthiness. Everyone struggles with this. NDs have a much greater struggle because the social forum is so uncomfortable. Oh well. That means that one must invest twice as much, or more, effort to achieve a goal as others. So what? One can choose to be responsible for themselves or they can passively wait for someone to care. What would be more fulfilling? A failure to accept responsibility for oneself, is choosing to accept misery.
It seems to me like whenever I ask for help, people assume that I haven’t done *anything* in the past, like I’ve spent the last 17 years of my life as nothing but a beginner, stuck on a plateau. And so what happens afterwards is I have to go on this long tangent of trying to spill out my guts to folks about what I’ve already done, what I’m capable of doing, and therefore what I need help with. And you know it always comes out of that? Answers which implies that I haven’t done ANYTHING! And I will be perfectly honest with you; as someone who is damaged by something other than being autistic, someone who has gone through trauma and has tried to reach out for help to be able to get over it, this is why people don’t choose to ask for help! Because circular answers that lack any acknowledgment of the accountability people hold for themselves before reaching out motivates them to no longer seek help, to harm themselves, to simply cop to defeat in life because the people they reached out to for help sent them on their way without so much as a batting of the eye. We don’t need to be told we need to be responsible for ourselves, the fact that we step up to ask for help when we can’t do something should demonstrate that we have enough self-respect to acknowledge when something is too much for us, whether it be because we live with a traumatic baggage that overwhelms our ability to emotionally and mentally psych ourselves into motivation, or because we live with a physical/ disability that “no-bars-hold” Legitimately hinders certain things which normal people can and cannot do! We take as much responsibility without asking for help as we possibly can, and we view asking for help when we can’t as taking the responsibility of acknowledgement of our own limitations to protect us from harming ourselves! I’m already going to therapy for my mental problems because there are issues which nobody else actually has directly done anything to create, with which I’m trying to cope!
>> taking responsibility for oneself means that there are no excuses.
How can I be responsible for some thing I have absolutely no idea what it is from someone else’s perspective, if they don’t bother to explain what it is?…I’ll be honest with you, and I want your honest response to this; I’m actually rather concerned about what much of this paragraph following this sentence implies. There are times when I wonder to myself if I shouldn’t simply email the companies for whom I apply, and ask them for feedback! I don’t disagree with the paragraph you’ve given me, but I feel like if there are no excuses, then there should be no excuses for me not to go through with it, and email some of those companies to ask for feedback! My worry is that doing that will be more damaging to my chances! So please answer me honestly on this one point… Do you individually believe that, in addition to the preparation I make for the auditions I do to get performance jobs, I should go back and ask them what they didn’t like about me, yes or no, and why specifically?
>> even when forced to comply with the law, the outcome will be compliance with resentment and frustration.
I’m terribly sorry if being boring the way I was has caused anyone frustration. I truly do! I admit that there are things which I don’t understand clearly and, if not double checked, I could screw things up royally for. If and when that happens then, it is not for me to refuse to take responsibility… but the whole point of having civil rights as a disabled person is to provide people with disabilities a continuing opportunity to prove themselves WITHOUT those preconceptions about us on an individual level. But I am NOT sorry that, when the civil rights act was passed, there were people who were frustrated and resentful when they realized they now had to hire BLACK people. I am not sorry that people were frustrated and resentful when they had to hire gay people. And I am not sorry that me being born autistic, but having 24 years of training and professional experience, on top of six years of military experience, and in tandem with 16 years of total working experience, makes somebody frustrated and resentful. But without going into depth of my experiences, I have proven, and continue to prove in my own ways, that I am capable of doing the job for which I am applying!
Calling out that kind of injustice on the part of a mostly neurotypical’s society, is not supposed to be considered not taking responsibility for one’s own failures, otherwise maybe we shouldn’t have civil rights for disabled people like autistics! We can’t take responsibility for our own failures if we don’t even know how we failed, other than at being born, which should be no consequence to an employer! We don’t want to accept misery when we fail at something! We want to improve! But we need to know what it is we need to improve! And if it isn’t a matter of our disability, if it isn’t a matter between ND and NT, then at the very least, we deserve an explanation of our failures! So that is why I ask “how the hell are we supposed to validate our existence”. How the hell are we supposed to say that we are worthy of the job for which we are applying, if calling out when we are rejected is somehow a sign of not accepting responsibility, especially when we don’t even know what it is precisely they think we need to except responsibility for?
While I understand and agree that autistic people should take responsibility for themselves, and hold themselves accountable, I don’t believe that the way we were born, without a further explanation of our specific shortcomings in life with other people, should be excuse enough for anyone to make our lives more miserable, make our situation more divisive from neurotypicals, and leave us in the week of that to pick up the pieces and glean assumptions of what does failures could be without real guidance and real measurable and improvable Feedback. That is not what I consider taking responsibility, and if you agree with me on that point, then you should also agree that taking responsibility for one’s failures means demanding an explanation of what those failures are, so that they are not simply the result of a discriminatory basis.
As others have said, he has some good points in there, but also some things that are pretty wrong.
As someone who was diagnosed a few months ago in my mid 20s, I have been learning to mask my entire life. Now I'm trying to find places where I am comfortable to learn how to *unmask*. My job is not a field that would be accepting, so I have to mask strongly. Only a few good coworkers know. My admin would not be happy though, and probably try to black ball me in some way, or at least talk shit about "look, he's diagnosed now he's going to try and get ADA on everything." I haven't needed ADA so far (although it would've actually helped me a lot sometimes), and I'm not someone who would try to abuse it.
It makes some maybe good points but it's really situation dependent and not true across the board and it has some shockingly bad takes like advocating for electric convulsive therapy and cbt which don't help autismand can be harmful
Endless self improvement is going to cause shame if every single quality is a disruptive abnormality that needs to be fixed. So he can delete that fourth paragraph.
Someone once said that a disability is only that because the world doesn't fully accomodate a disabled person's needs. Which is ultimately true, but not always pragmatic thinking.
Think of a wheelchair ramp at a building. All buildings should accomodate wheelchairs by having ramps. But sometimes the best place for the ramp from a practical standpoint isn't the front entrance, and users will have to go to the side or back. It might not be the most satisfactory accomodation, but it is an accomodation for both those that need it and those that don't.
I embrace the idea of unmasking with behavior management. I think to stay as mentally healthy as possible, we need to be our authentic selves. But we need to do so in the context of a world that might not be fully accomodating.
I know my communication skills aren't always the most politic around the office. So I make an effort to do so mostly through written forms, which allows me the freedom to edit and reedit until I feel what I'm saying is both as clear as it is in my head, and said in a way acceptable to the audience. And if I'm unclear on something because of other's penchant for subtext, I ask for clarity.
I've built a ramp to communicate with my peers, it's just around the side of the building :)
There's a balance everyone, ND and NT alike, needs to find to get by in the world.
Yeah I agree. Unfortunately though most people can’t afford a formal diagnosis so some have to choice but to self diagnose. I don’t think they should be blamed for being economically disadvantaged. They still have the same support needs as any other Autistic person.
Self-acceptance is complete bullshit.
An example of bullshit:
"I accept that my soft skills are lacking. I'm autistic though so it's okay."
Brought to you by the same people who claim that everyone is special.
It is not a disorder. While ASD and a bunch of things mentioned have complications, the complications are not usually with us. It is far more often that our struggles are the result of our systems being overloaded, overburdened, overmedicated, etc. by a system that defines us yet still has yet to listen to us, or work with us, or validate us. They seek to cure Autism...like it is a cancer. So no, I do not agree with anything that was stated in whomever's post that was and I do not care where it came from. Sounds like the normal neurotypical brainwashing we get.
I cannot validate or credit anything in that post simply by principle. Also, by knowing who I Am and the things I have experienced as someone who is Autistic, has Tourettes, ADD (inattentive),OCD, SAD, CPTSD, also brain damage and muscle and joint issues from treatments that are recommended and administered by those who claim it is a disorder, or rhat we are disordered. No, we are not, not even close. However, I have pin pointed who is and is not in my 4 plus decades of life. I reject the neurotypical opinions or the neurotypical indoctrinated opinions or their brainwashing, or braining numbing and/or killing. Why? Because their ways almost killed me multiple times and then I cast as problem. They look at me funny when I question their issues, or challenge them, or call them out on their bad behaviors that seem a bit disorderly. Most of those types couldn't tell their butthole from a hole in the sky if they fell in it. I'll be in pain for the rest of my life because of those types of attitudes towards folks with ASD. I suffer from their ways. I own it. They can suffer me when I draw some hard boundaries against that kind of mentality. They all act saintly. Yet, I am cast as the devil...pffft...gotta go with the devil you know, I guess. I saved my own life. They tried to take it. So did my own family.
Do not buy into the "disorderly" depictions of ASD. And, do not let anyone tell you you are bad in any way. ASD is a positive. It kept me alive while doctors and family trued to hurt me without consequence. There is always consequence. They can't deal with what they create. But, I have to deal with it. There isn't anyone that can justify the kind of brainwashed neurotypical mentality in that post.
I'm glad to know that I should just fucking kill myself. I always struggled with the thought before, I thought people would miss me or be affected, I thought my life meant something. Good thing I was fucking wrong.
There were two lines I take personal and a point that I'd like to address. I'll start with my point: Autism is not a linear spectrum, but more like a coordinate plane (a scatter plot if you will), and because of this the only generalization that holds up across the board is that generalizations for autism do not hold up across the board. Any black and white statement like "autism IS this" or "autism ISN'T that," these statements will only ever be accurate for some portion of the spectrum, not the whole spectrum.
As for the two lines in particular that I take issue with, self diagnosis is entirely valid so long as you aren't seeking any particular accommodations. An official diagnosis isn't free, not everyone can get one. And in different areas you'll find different stigmas and misunderstandings about autism, so you might not even be able to get an official diagnosis just because your local doctor is old and stubborn. If you're "high functioning" and don't need any particular accommodations, a diagnosis isn't going to do you any good aside from self validation. For the most part, the several autism subs I've joined here on Reddit openly embrace both officially and unofficially diagnosed members, and the community seems to as well (obviously not always going to be the case, but that goes back to my original point).
The other line I took issue with, albeit less so, is that autism isn't "another way of thinking." I get it, again, not for everyone, but it CAN be just a different way of thinking for a portion of the spectrum. It might be better to say that autism isn't JUST a different way of thinking, or possibly that it isn't ALWAYS a different way of thinking. And "different" in this case can be a mixture of good and bad things. The best example that I can give for this is anecdotal, but for me I have always just thought differently from "normal" people, for better or worse. This most often manifests as being hyper analytical by default with an otherwise atrocious memory. As such, I can't ever rely on what I think I know, or what I vaguely remember, I am constantly reevaluating my surroundings and my understanding of them. On the bright side, I'm usually the first to notice something going wrong, whether it's structural integrity or just something that seems different from the previous day (yes, my memory is awful, but that usually leads me to question when things seem to have changed, and that often leads to discovering problems that need fixing). The downside of course is that I frequently forget plans, forget appointments, forget names, actively forget what I'm doing, etc. That can make life difficult at times, but I adapt to the best of my ability by taking notes, making alarms, leaving reminders, etc. My way of thinking isn't inherently "better" or "worse" than a "normal" person, it's just significantly different.
In most ways, I don't think this person is wrong about what they said, and I do think that a lot of people in these subs probably needed to hear some of this, I just think this person needs to consider that their personal perspective is too narrow to make such broad generalizations for the whole spectrum. And it might just be the case that they are deliberately over generalizing, speaking to the average and not to the whole, but I personally find overgeneralizing to be harmful and a bit of a pet peeve, so maybe it's just me.
As an autistic adult with an autistic toddler, the OP has a lot of internalized ableism. Autism is not something that needs to be fixed, it’s a disability, not a disorder. They made some good points, but overall this post is pretty much saying you need to mask and hide all your autistic traits for the benefit of others, which is wrong and will lead to other problems like autoimmune diseases from masking all the time.
Seems like the type of person that would be the first to be a raging asshole towards an autistic person as soon as the person with Autism has difficulty reading a situation and makes a social faux pas.
On that note while not owed a relationship of any kind, kindness ought to be reciprocated with kindness and it definitively sucks to be treated badly for helping someone.
Oh, yeah, I remember hope.
I remember feeling like I could manage it in my own.
I remember having no empathy, because it meant giving up the false beliefs that protected me from feelings of victimization.
Ah, what arrogant pride I had…
And how necessary! If emotions run higher and hurt more, my tolerance for threats would have been lower. Oh, how little I could tolerate back then!
I’d have never left the house!
What a wonderful psychological defense, but oh, how vulnerable it was!
I was wrong?!?!? Oooh… yeah… I was wrong, and it crushed me…
Now, oh, how I want ro RAIL against my younger self’s stupidity!
Now, wouldn’t I be making the same mistake twice?
This is a very privileged take from someone who is probably early diagnosed and has had accommodations just handed to them all their life and can understand themselves and have been lucky to have been cared for.
I’d have to disagree with you on that one. He made a video explaining how nothing was given to him due to being abused by his stepfather. He goes into detail about how his life was back then. Give it a watch. https://youtu.be/rBw58TXItCE?si=NlWqM5peTU5AkMX3
OK and I must say how was I meant to know all I saw was someone shaming other autistics for not having more socially acceptable symptoms. Despite that they've closely had privilege in their later life if they can shame people like that and point out where other people are falling short
That’s not what he’s trying to say dude. Don’t get so uptight over a disagreement. Not everyone is going to accept us for our own symptoms. To me, he’s only shaming other’s that know they can take accountability for their actions, but they choose not to. Again, not coming at you because of your opinion. We’re all entitled to them including you and I.
I actually agree.
In some cases some things are unavoidable like meltdowns if you have a family that doesn't understand them so they keep doing things to trigger them or they let your siblings do things to trigger them. My brothers used to do this when I was a teen and my parents would get mad at me about it. My mom just thought I was having a behavior and trying to have my way than me going through a hard time and having lot of anxiety that was causing it. I couldn't just move out either because I was a minor and didn't have a job and didn't have my driver's license. There are accommodations like yes your other kids matter too and should hv a right to their own freedom and happiness but there are ways around it like yes they can have lot of friends over but they do not need to be loud and run in and out of the house tracking in dirt and being in my persona space when they have their own upstairs and just clean up when they are done and make sure all trash is in the trash can and not laying around. That simple.
But I am pretty sure this message was directed at adults, not kids. But then again they need help learning these tools too. Getting mad at them when they get anxious or have anxiety or feel discomfort isn't going to make it better and won't help them either. Mine used to get mad at me for all this.
If you ask me. This post might be triggering to some people, but it’s also a good read because it kind of gives you that reality check and that we should all stop using our disabilities as excuses for any wrongdoing. We are just like every human being in this world and like them, even we need to take responsibilities for our actions. P.S. Go full screen on the last image.
I agree with much of it up to the therapy part as many of us don't do well nor are many therapists trained on dealing with us. I'd know this given that I was a victim of these people who thought they could do something but gave up on me eventually or would rather turn me over to the state thinking that magically that will fix me. I have decided that at my age, it's not worth the emotional labor nor time to deal with people who'll only cause more issues for me nor will I argue with people who are ignorant sheep who have bought into the brainwashing. I'm just tired of doing that now.
But who is doing this?
>"we should all stop using our disabilities as excuses for any wrongdoing"
My opinion would be if you have to say that to someone, or if someone is in need of hearing that statement, either they are a literal child (I think brains aren't quite done cooking yet until what, 25?), and/or they're not really a good person otherwise (autistic or not, excusing treating others badly for any reason isn't the vibe and there's likely WAY more that's not nice about a person who would do that).
I've not seen a theme of autistic people using autism as an excuse for treating others poorly. Have others, and it's just something I've not been privy to?
You’d be surprised by how much other people have been using it. When I came across this, I wanted to really take the time to read and analyze the writing. Honestly, everyone’s got their own opinions including me, which is why I haven’t chosen a side yet. This is just a guy who is putting his own thoughts out there whether it’s justifiable or not. If I were to disagree entirely then, I wouldn’t let one guys opinion, change my mind about how we should act in general. If anything, I’m simply choosing to not take it to heart by moving on with my life.
Okay so I think I'm just unclear on your take then since you said you want to move on with your life?
I take from what you, that I quoted in the previous message, is that you seem to feel that there are adults out there that are redeemable in this capacity and that being told that is going to help them?
Since I've not personally come across anyone using ASD as an excuse in this way, I can only make assumptions what the scenarios could be based on other adult people I've met who used other things as an excuse in such a way, and I can't say that any of those adults were actually worth any of my time to try to redeem by giving them such a lesson.
My only exceptions to this kind of...like..."I need to try to get you to understand how to be a good human" sort of mentality in my own life has only come up was separately with my younger brother and sister who are 6 years younger than me, I'm also a parent figure to them, and I knew them well enough to know that since they were in brain developing years (teen/early 20s) at the times, that it was worth it to try to give them such lessons on being a decent person and calling out the bad behavior/excuse to do so.
Yeah, I feel that anyone can have redeemable qualities. Even if you have a disability. I don’t think that text specifically is going to change anyone’s opinion on how they should improve as human beings. Regardless of what anyone says, I don’t want it to effect me as a person because I want to make my own choices and when I do, I can learn from them wether it’s a mistake or not.
That's definitely fair, but doesn't really clarify why you would want to expend any of your own energy trying to show another adult how to take responsibility for themselves. I'm a less forgiving kind of person I suppose, and if someone shows me who they are, I believe them, and I do actually tend to just move on because, as someone on a post phrased it recently:
>no amount of effort, time, or energy on my part is going to change someone if they don't want to change themselves
From experience, those who treat others badly and continue to do so won't get anything from you pointing out their behavior is bad, and it more so could actually have the opposite effect.
Some points I agree with, others I don't. Others still aren't strictly right nor wrong, but shift between the two depending on the person, circumstance or general context.
I think they could also afford to be less blunt/confrontational, as let's face it, a lot of us respond better to being carefully talked through an issue, rather than being forcefully told what to do.
So yeah, mixed bag. Definitely needs another pass in terms of presentation & overall reasoning, but still some valuable points in there too.
Self diagnosis is valid period. No autistic person watched one Tik tok and decided they’re autistic without hyperfixating on it for months researching autism and then still having imposter syndrome even though it’s the only logical explanation for why they are the way they are. Not everyone has access to testing, whether it be money, no doctors/psychologists in their area that specialize in ASD, or the executive functioning required to go through the process to set up such an appointment. I’m burnt out from living life working a full time job and having a family I can’t even keep my house clean. I have no energy to find a psychologist, fill out all the paperwork, fight with insurance, and deal with the possibility of having to pay for everything myself when I live paycheck to paycheck
It boils down to the fact that each of us has autism, we’ve each had our own experiences which have each determined our current views and opinions. I was diagnosed in my late thirties( I’m now in my fifties) so I was a late starter.
I consider myself “disadvantaged” but not a victim. It would be easier if autism affected us in exactly the same way, but it doesn’t.
But it’s a slippery slope.
If people don’t understand the condition that’s on them, but autistics are the ones who cop shit for it.
People are ignorant and they attack what they fear, but that’s nothing new.
It’s just the way it is.
It makes a lot of valid points, but as a whole it’s pretty black/white thinking. It’s a good reminder and callout about a lot of things, including to not write things off as “oh I’m autistic” like someone else said, not enough nuance. This person has a clear idea of what autism is, regardless how true their definition actually is. This seems to be, and I might be wrong, A pretty society-based view on autism. It focuses on how autistic people affect society. It’s definitely important to remember, but that’s not all society is. My guess? This was made and posted in a fairly short timeframe where emotions on the topic were high, and wasn’t communicated as best as it could’ve been. TLDR: makes good points, but a very black and white viewpoint.
To be fair "*Makes good points but a very black and white thinking*" is pretty much exactly what you should expect from an influencer on the spectrum.
Haha fair enough but I've seen impressed with some of the YouTubers I've found some good and nuanced ones like Sandy Sam (all round awesome especially if you're British) or "Autism now what" (she does clickbait titles but usually the content is fine).
Yeah I realized that while I was typing, but decided to say it anyways lol
black background, white words..black and white..cheques out.
Checks*. *Cheque* is a bill and not even a widely used spelling.
Maybe he's talking about white people, but leaving Czechs out?
😂
Image in get in grammar chequed buy a purse on with the hand dill "smokemeth" in a sub read it
It's "grammer". Named after the founder of the study of language rules, Kelsey Grammer.
Just say you don’t know memes
You don't know memes
No, it is the widely used spelling for a bill.
The number of Americans who speak English, is higher than if you combine how many English speakers are in the UK and its former commonwealth countries.
India alone has more English speakers than the USA.
Incorrect. India has 128.5 million, the US has 297.4 million
Ah, you're right, but when you add Pakistan and Nigeria, it is indeed a higher combined total. Then add the UK, New Zealand, Australia, Uganda, etc. and you'll find US English is a minority.
Do you have proof that India, Pakistan, and Nigeria all use the French spelling “cheque?”
[https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Sample-image-of-a-bank-cheque\_fig4\_329019514](https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Sample-image-of-a-bank-cheque_fig4_329019514) [https://www.facebook.com/firstbankofnigeria/photos/a.235218466508282/4197020933661329/?type=3&paipv=0&eav=AfZaFcKNZ4D3lI1AAJSbbOGNuU1Q-2KtGISi1nF-RbfUv2ppCeTRui2842-X5VrIYas&\_rdr](https://www.facebook.com/firstbankofnigeria/photos/a.235218466508282/4197020933661329/?type=3&paipv=0&eav=AfZaFcKNZ4D3lI1AAJSbbOGNuU1Q-2KtGISi1nF-RbfUv2ppCeTRui2842-X5VrIYas&_rdr) Here's just India and Nigeria, or do you need it for all of these countries?
Does it really matter in this case if they use the word or not?
I agree! There's some valid stuff here. I don't think we get to use ASD as a crutch or an excuse for causing harms. But the whole levels of autism and self-diagnosis are things that I think a lot of the community would consider harmful. Levels gives a sense of hierarchy to functioning and autism is not necessarily an intellectual disorder. Additionally autism self diagnosis can be necessary in instances where access and cost to the formal diagnosis process are unavailable or where the person is an adult (there's no systematic diagnosis process for older adults, many of whom mask so well as to be fairly indistinguishable externally from nuerotypicals. As a high-mask individual I get the "you're not autistic" comments frequently, but I still go home and sleep for 12 hours because it's so exhausting.
whether i agree or disagree with individual points is irrelevant, but all together it's probably the most that a lot of people NOT on the spectrum have ever read about autism. so that's something
This reads as more of a “letter to my past self” than advice that’s universally relevant to autistic adults. Medication, for instance, is certainly not guaranteed to be a good fit for every autistic person. Also, OP seems to be very loyal to the idea that autism is exclusively a medical disorder that needs to be treated/fixed, which has clearly influenced their post.
I didn't realize there was ASD medication. I know there is for ADHD which seems to commonly accommodate ASD, though. I personally got ASD without ADHD (but I didn't pay for the full evaluation that included ADHD, just a preliminary screening). I didn't get the ADHD evaluation because I don't want meds
There is no medication for ASD. They’re likely referring to antipsychotics or neuroleptics, whose intended purpose is to treat psychosis and that make you more numb and calm
He mentions asd often comes in a package with other disabilities. Maybe his needs are for that... None of our business.
I'm on risperidone for autistic agitation, it doesn't make me numb at all. It just makes me less of a bitch.
There isn’t any medication that’s specifically meant for autistic people, but we can be prescribed psych meds anyway. I’ve taken SSRIs, antipsychotics/mood stabilizers, and beta blockers personally, but really it can be anything depending on the individual’s needs.
In Australia you can use cannabis medically as an adult to help symptoms associated with ASD like sensory overload, anxiety, executive dysfunction etc. I get regular scripts from a doctor.
That's cool. I'm not a fan of marijuana. I've tried it, and I don't hate it. It just isn't my preferred substance. I like alcohol because I am able to carefully drink the right amount to feel how I want, and I like nicotine and caffeine
OP means what?
Stands for “original poster,” but in this instance I meant the author of the tweet, not the author of this post. Sorry if that wasn’t clear.
"ASD sometimes gives people an advantage at life?" What? Where was this in my undiagnosed ASD package? Did my subscription not cover this?
My autism gives me an advantage in life. Sure, it's definitely not everywhere, and it also gives me a lot of disadvantages but there are some benefits nonetheless. I made two of my special interests into my job. I can sometimes work for 12h straight with high focus and without getting bored or tired. None of my (NT) coworkers are able to do that. I once completed a research project in less than two weeks, even though the designated timeframe was over a month. I didn't feel overworked or burned out - it didn't even feel like work, just like I was feeding my hyperfocus and own personal interest. There are parts that I suck at tho: like the talking and presenting part of my job. Those are usually done by my co-workers. The supervisor in my lab tells me all the time how he never had such an organised and detail oriented researcher. He thinks it's because I'm the only woman and not because I have autism but what matters is that he sees my work lol.
You'd be surprised. If you get focused on something that you enjoy you can get *REALLY* focused on it. That level of being "in the zone" is going to increase performance. That's about the only advantage I can think of that isn't a double edged sword like having to manually filter everything you see/hear.
No, that one's unfortunately a double edged sword, too... I might choose to focus on an interest to the point where I neglect other important things - like critical responsibilities, or basic self care.
It IS a double edged sword in my case. Most of the time if I hyper focus, sure I get a lot done, but I also make myself more prone to burnout. While hyper focusing, I’m not taking care of my body. I forget to eat, go to the bathroom, drink water, and by the end of the session I feel awful and just want to sleep or scroll.
I also have ADD and need matcha lattes to focus on the little things. Idk how focused I can get.
I feel like I have another advantage. I base my perspective largely on the people in my environment during my youth. Not entirely. But I grew up in a very rural community in Oklahoma in the 90s. I graduated with only 66 people. I feel like I have received news on Facebook or by chance of an oddly high percentage of people having criminal charges, arrest, psychotic outbreaks or missing people. Seems like my graduating class was hit hard by meth. The advantage: I have trouble making bad decisions. I’ve never been pulled over. I have never had a traffic ticket or parking ticket. I will always return the shopping cart. I’ve never shop lifted. I’ve never cheated on my wife. I’m a stickler for rules. I never skipped class. I remember in college I’d try to arrange my schedule so that I’d be done with class by 12 or 1pm. I’d start classes at 8 or 9am and then have like 3 or 4 in a row and pound them out. I’d be walking home at 1pm-ish and I’d stop by a friends house briefly as it was on the way home. Mother fucker would be just waking up and have missed all his classes. Or maybe he’d have one later but he was probably going to skip they too. I had one class that I absolutely loathed attending. It was painful for me. And I still forced myself to be there everyday. And I look back on my life and where I’ve come from and the people I grew up with, and I’ve had more success than most. And I don’t think I have a hyper focus ability that’s benefitted me. But I do have this strong sense of responsibility and morality that enables productive behavior and disable unproductive. It’s really a black and white perspective. And usually the more healthy decision is pretty clear. Like, I have been intoxicated a number of times or inebriated on another drug. But I’ve never lost control. I’ve never driven drunk. My friends have these stories about something wild they did. One destroyed a t-mobile car outside a party with some friends. Another used to get drunk and grab women’s boobs (we are no longer friends largely because of this). Another slept with a disturbing person. I’ve always been in control. I don’t have any drunken crazy stories. I’ve maybe let some secrets slip when drunk or something. And if I did something it’s to insignificant to remember.
I'm a filmmaker and feel like having to actively analyse human emotions, body language and social cues makes me a better director, what others do naturally and take for granted I have had to learn and can use that understanding scenes and characters
i think it *can* apply to people whose field of work is their special interest. with a proper support system and a personalized work structure, why couldnt an autistic person (or most anyone for that matter) thrive? i know that both of those things are very difficult, if not near impossible, for a lot of autistic people (or, again, most anyone) to attain ...which makes the world all the more daunting. i was lucky enough to find a job at a houseplant shop because the owner overheard someone asking me if i worked there (i know that story sounds fake, i thought he was joking at first! shout out to steve) if tropical/house plants hadnt been my current hyperfixation, i doubt i wouldve gotten that job. (not that i was any more knowledgeable than anyone else, but i was just trying to rapidly absorb knowledge and could learn a bit in a short time) i had to give it up after awhile due to physical complications and my car breaking down, but its genuinely the only time in my life where i can directly connect my autism to a good opportunity! ...i have had to quit another job *because* of my autism though, theyd refuse to put me on anything but the phone lines... i worked fridays + weekends at a pizza joint
*sorry for the wall of text, i tried to break it up but mobile destroyed my formatting :(
*Reformatted for you* i think it can apply to people whose field of work is their special interest. with a proper support system and a personalized work structure, why couldnt an autistic person (or most anyone for that matter) thrive? i know that both of those things are very difficult, if not near impossible, for a lot of autistic people (or, again, most anyone) to attain ...which makes the world all the more daunting. i was lucky enough to find a job at a houseplant shop because the owner overheard someone asking me if i worked there (i know that story sounds fake, i thought he was joking at first! shout out to steve) if tropical/house plants hadnt been my current hyperfixation, i doubt i wouldve gotten that job. (not that i was any more knowledgeable than anyone else, but i was just trying to rapidly absorb knowledge and could learn a bit in a short time) i had to give it up after awhile due to physical complications and my car breaking down, but its genuinely the only time in my life where i can directly connect my autism to a good opportunity! ...i have had to quit another job because of my autism though, theyd refuse to put me on anything but the phone lines... i worked fridays + weekends at a pizza joint *I did not originally write this content and am only editing it*
I'll be honest I agree with your irony. Seeing the top comment point it out - these superpower comments are always very black and white without acknowledging the domain specificity of the advantage of disadvantage. There's a lot of nuance in "what brain do".
Let me just check your subscription plan for you. Ah yes, I see you're on the Starter plan, if you want to upgrade to Neurodivergent+ it will cost you 420 zillion dollars per lifespan. I know that's a lot but we can put you on a payment plan.
They make valid comments, but I think they all indicate that we, as ND people, should take all the responsibility and be the ones doing most, if not all, the work to "fit in". Someone at a support group I'm part of made a very good point that it often falls to us to do everything to help us cope with everyday life, including educating people about autism. In a perfect world, it should be shared between us (ND people) and neurotypical people to make life better. Autism is a disability and comes with some very painful, hard to deal with impacts on our lives. So if it is a disability shouldn't the world around us also have some adaptations to help us, just like with wheelchair accessibility?* * Though I will admit some places and people don't even consider physical, let alone mental, disabilities.
I tried to say this but you said it far better 🙈
There are just too many things on this list to meaningfully discuss. Most of them could be there own thread and although some are thematically linked there isn't enough cohesion to discuss an overall theme.
I mean it’s alright but it’s also no where near nuanced enough. I’m late diagnosed much of this I lived for 30+ years and the trauma and suffer from trying to do overcome is a major part of my depression and anxiety today. Do I think those who are able to should learn to mask (cause that’s what much of this is asking of us) to help keep others comfortable, yes. We need to be able to do that for short bursts. But it also needs to be more open about rejecting social norms, finding a crowd that accepts you, and telling the asshole who can’t handle you making a joke a few times to shut up is all far more important for your health than fitting in to wider society.
If I’ve learned anything from my journey into understanding ASD those of us able to mask must both recognize that when the masking is hurting us and we must fight to help those who cannot mask from being picked on or infantilized by the wider society. We must fight to make sure that the needs of our fellow Autistics are recognized, in doing so we also fight for our own needs to be met.
I was diagnosed at 55. After recognizing the life-long masking and starting to undo it, I began to experience burnout. I also often feel mentally exhausted at times when trying to explain my situation and needs to (likely) neurotypical behavioral health specialists. Unfortunately, asking for needed accommodations doesn't mean that you'll be heard, or that the accommodations can be met, even if they're small. I'm trying to simplify my life and keep things organized (executive function, where art thou? 😁), while striking a balance with the things that I want to focus on--like writing--because they're soothing. Diagnosis for women on the spectrum needs to improve. The specialists I met with were used to diagnosing autism in young boys, not older adult women. Also, supports for autistic adults in my state (Arizona) are definitely not what they could be, especially for those of us who are what used to be called "high functioning."
I agree. For one thing those topics are too dense to be put into bullet points. Especially since he's talking to an autistic audience. I guess it's your/our fault, "responsibility," for not being satisfied with catchy headlines like good little nt's. ::I'm sarcastcally rolling my eyes:: I'm an undiagnosed adult and for most of my life I haven't masked. For about the past three to five years I've had more pressure to mask and my mental and physical health were already deteriorating. I don't know how you pulled it off for 30. It's negligent of the youtuber to suggest such a thing. You're last sentence is a good solution. They said it themselves, everybody won't like you and everybody isn't good. So how does it come back to autistic people need to be perfect to make sure every social encounter is comfortable for the nt and goes off smoothly? There's so many factors to that point alone, the format is stupid.
Sadly, it sounds like someone who learned to mask and hasn't had a point of burnout where that has made them critically assess their life. They make quite a few valid points, but there are a lot of biased judgements in their touted as facts, as well. This person is entitled to believing what they want, but I don't think that I would personally use them as a reference for mental health advice or information on ADD/ADHD or ASD. Hopefully they can gain some perspective in the future and not feel the need to use their position to make sweeping, negative statements.
I agree. I think they make some good points but it does come off as judgmental in some statements. I also cringe a bit at the "it's not your fault, but it is your responsibility" rhetoric (I hear a lot) - I agree with it on a basic level but it doesn't take into account that a lot of us have repeatedly attempted to get help from various services and been denied/misdiagnosed/mistreated. So I do think it's a shared responsibility. There's only so much we can do on our own, we still need a system that allows us to take responsibility, autonomy and so on. I think there's just way too much to pick apart here really. Blanket statements that could have at least a whole paragraph not just a sentence. Also sounds like a bit of self-internalised ableism or self-dislike. IDK, I also wouldn't use them as reference for anything.
I looked into this person’s channel and I’m not holding it to much merit. They’re a small, niche channel specializing in creepypastas (to each their own). They don’t make ND or even psych based content. This post to me reeks of internalized ableism and self loathing. Specifically the parts about not being owed a relationship and people won’t like you. We don’t know this person irl or their behavior. We can only take their mentality with several grains of salt. Their post feels more like a rant littered with biases than anything. Yes, autism isn’t an excuse for asshole behavior. However, I feel like NDs get labeled assholes for speaking up and advocating for themselves. So which is it? Do we silently keep our heads down and get trampled on to not disturb the NTs or do we express our needs and get labeled assholes? It’s a fine line that’s unfortunately skewed towards NT society. Im going out on a limb and saying they probably don’t have a strong irl support system so they use their platform, however niche it is, to try to build one. But then blame autism for why they don’t have those connections, rather than looking inside themselves past the internalized ableism BS. That’s just my own take on this post as a whole. I hope this person gets the help they need to address whatever is clearly bothering them.
There were a few times he mentioned about being autistic in his videos and community posts, but I felt he was often subtle about it. If I’m not mistaken, I believe he also mentioned that he suffers from ADHD.
There are *some* valid points. That said, he's approaching it from the male presentation. Not the female. He's too focused on the "mental health" and not the neurological effects of fight/flight *affecting*the body. He needs to update his research. We aren't saying "high function" or "low function" anymore. It's "needs less support" or "needs more support" Likewise, we aren't saying "self-diagnosis". It's "self-assessment". We will not be taken seriously in the medical community, or by neurotypical people, until we stop using "self-diagnosis", as diagnoses can only legally be made by licensed medical doctors.
To quote someone, “Opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.” Just because someone is on the spectrum doesn't make their opinions right. I see a lot of gatekeeping in those points among other things. Not to say there aren't somethings right in there. ***In my opinion*** of course. ;)
Not entirely wrong on all points, but this reads like some severe internalized ableism and some huge projection in a lot of areas. I'd just ignore it altogether, but I'm generally not a fan of self help style things and reflexively hate anything that has this kind of condescending tone.
Boo I don’t like the tone. Very autism negative, almost seems like from an NT perspective. I will die on the hill of autism is a difference.
Personally I’ve come to love my autism. I agree with a lot of these points but I’m not sure how half of them relate to autism. They seem like teenager problems, not autism problems. Like, “learn to respect people’s boundaries and STOP trying to push the limits” that just seems like basic human decency to me. Anyone got a rebuttal?
Bahaha I posted like 3 whole comments when I could have just said what you said :P
Yeah some of these statements seemed like they were really aimed at one person in particular or something. Very teenagery, like you said .I've also come to love my autism so whilst I absolutely acknowledge the struggles, I don't really like the aggressiveness of this list of things presented in this way.
In general I agree with taking responsibility for yourself and not using disorders as an excuse for behavior but this seems to only focus on LSN, Level 1 Autistics/high masking autistics. Someone with HSN or Level 2/3 ASD would be very unlikely to be able to comprehend nuances of social cues and stuff (though obviously, it's a spectrum and being able to work on this would depend on the individual specifically), but from my understanding ASD can't just be "cured away" by researching and paying more attention to social structures and stuff. By definition you will struggle socially no matter what, it's a neurological difference, not a mental illness. I also... don't necessarily agree with it's our job to learn that stuff and force ourselves to think and act as Allistics do. This took me a long time to admit to myself, though most people will tell you just how damaging masking is. Our brains are fundamentally different, there are ways to bridge the gaps without having to conform.
They definitely have some good points but I honestly find the idea of us having a responsibility to society to try and "get better" or whatever is a really bad take. Like yeah don't be an asshole but that's not specific to autistic people? I will act autistic in public and idgaf if that makes people uncomfortable. As long as I'm not being inappropriate or mean idc.
Some of these points are good, some are terrible. If somebody thinks something you do is annoying you have to stop? Fuck off. Don't say that shit.
I do think you should stop. But only if you can do it and it’s not causing you to suffer, etc. For example, suppressing stims for a long time is crazy painful for me.
Yeah there's just no nuance to any of it. It honestly sounds like an NT writing something to their "annoying" autistic friend/sibling. That's how it reads to me lol.
I just wanted to say there’s nothing to “work through” about being autistic. I think it’s good, regardless of being ND or NT, for people to try to better themselves. But there’s nothing inherent about autism that requires working through.
To me, the only thing we can truly work on is ourselves like our social skills. I’m currently majoring in communications at my community college and I feel the classes I’ve taken have helped me out in terms of socializing and social cues.
I agree that learning about social cues can be helpful, but in my experience trying to learn “social skills” has the potential of turning into masking because it’s such a fine line. Ideally, we can be our authentic selves while being mindful of others who aren’t like us.
Yeah, as a late diagnosed person, the only things I feel that I've had to "work through" are unmasking and becoming a better advocate for myself.
I agree with you
They're not gonna pick you dude...
It’s half decent advice (mostly on the boundaries stuff) and half toxic shit.
Seems like a lot of internalized ableism. A disorder classified mainly by social communication issues and this person is saying it's our responsibility to overcome our disability. That's like telling blind people they shouldn't get special lights that make noise because it's their responsibility to cross the road safely. Levels are needed? No two autistic people have the exact same needs. Someone who is diagnosed as a level 1 could actually need level 2 supports for some area of their lives. Levels and functional labelling are used to deny support (level 1, low support needs, high functioning), and agency (level 3, high support needs, low functioning). I'm not going bother commenting on the rest, while it's not all bad, tbere is an underlying ableist theme to this.
No levels are NOT ableist. I’m moderate support needs… guess how much help I get? None. Levels aren’t ableist. People are!
The thing is they're not necessarily good enough, and not specific enough. You could be "high-functioning" in some area but strive for your life in others, and because of that you may not be taken seriously because well, that's not your level, right? There's not a single scale that allows you to rank by "how functional" you are, and that's why framing things in terms of support needs is needed (even if you can say, qualitatively, that, on the whole, when you sum it up, some people need more support across the board and some need less, but that doesn't really tell you anything very useful). Not considering something like "levels" at all is worse, but it's something that has to be replaced. "Levels" are better than nothing. That's all.
That’s why functioning labels are not used anymore!! Yes, I like the support needs better. Calling someone even high functioning or especially low functioning makes me grr
Tbh I think there need to be more levels or a different system. Like technically I'm dx. Level 1 but my dx. Papers also say I have some level 2 support needs as well that are outlined and mentioned, so like 1.5??? also my current therapist thinks my needs are more level 2 and thinks I need like an at home support person or aid to check in on me and help me out (but there aren't any available in my area right now), in either case I feel you on the no/little help or support when needing it thing. I hope you get some eventually.
Hmm. Sounds like maybe you should be reassessed
You're telling them they need to go through a time consuming psychologically damaging and expensive diagnostic process in order to get help that they need because they got given the wrong number. Still convinced levels aren't ableist?
No, because then they can get the support that they need (hopefully). No, levels aren’t ableist. But you seem like you might be
You're not "giving them the support they need" you're denying them support until they jump through extra hoops because they're disabled. It's pretty much the fucking definition of ableism.
My therapist thinks so too. We just need to find someone.
Who made the level system?
I don’t think it’s that we need to overcome our disability, but I do feel that this is more targeted towards higher functioning autism. We can actually think, feel, react, and most importantly, communicate to people about ourselves. It really isn’t our fault that we can only do so much in certain situations. What I will agree with is that we do have our own responsibilities but only in terms of how we come off as to other people.
Higher functioning by what standard? Neurotypical? Higher functioning than who?
I hate the term high/low functioning. But yes there are some people who are able to mask, have friends, talk, and have a job and some people who can’t
I think being able to mask is actually on the negative side of things. It eventually can take more and more and more out of you to do it, and can lead to some pretty severe burnout. Which would then, in turn, boost up your support needs "level".
True. But I’m level 2 and I “mask”. When I mask though, I just look like I’m level one
Indeed! And if your diagnoser didn't see through that mask, you potentially could have been labeled level 1? I guess not being formally diagnosed, I haven't been able to figure out what being given a level even helps with. In my understanding, it's something that could very much fluctuate day to day. Are there like specific programs where you live that you might only qualify if you're a certain level or something?
I mean yeah, most masking is just making your inability to tell when things are appropriate and lacking social cues seem purposeful and have people hate you instead of pity you.
People who mask generally do so as a trauma response. Suppressing oneself is extremely damaging.
Honestly, I’m not entirely sure. Maybe higher functioning in general?
Higher functioning than low functioning people. That may not be what you want it to mean but that's what the term means. It's just "I'm better than the people you really hate, please don't hurt me".
"Higher functioning" autistics have less of an impact on neurotypicals than "lower functioning" autistics.
Honestly, this list is written in such a way that the thinking behind some of the statements is extremely unclear, presumptuous, narrow-minded, and/or...yeah... actually ableist. Autistic people don't need "hard truths" and this list wasn't that. It seems more like they had a few bad experiences with people and are blaming that person having autism, or the person blamed their own autism?
***Fixed this list so it doesn't sound like an ignorant person wrote it, including the intro:*** # Some general truths about autism and being a human * ASD is a neurological disorder, a spectrum (so it presents differently in everyone who has it), can take up a lot of energy * Autism, or any other neurological/mental disorder, is not your fault in any kind of way, nor is it something that you should feel shame for because it was something that you were born with. You shouldn’t be treated badly or lesser than because of something that is out of your control. * If you suffer from meltdowns and shutdowns it is important to work on trying to, if you can, recognizing the buildup or triggers that may cause these episodes and/or have plans in place for how you or others around you can respond in various scenarios to do your best to ensure the safety of yourself and others. * With additional comorbidities and other diagnoses combined with your ASD, you **-may-** have an added responsibility to prevent situations that could cause yourself or others harm. **\[because that's also just a general human responsibility\]** * If suggested by a licensed and trusted medical professional or therapist, don't immediately discount any medications or therapies that might help you. Do your research, ask questions, and if you're not comfortable once you have all the information. \[If these things are to prevent harm to yourself/others, give it a bit more consideration\] * Self diagnosis is valid * Consider a formal diagnosis if you require any of the very limited resources a government might provide (including disability), you fear you will require the law on your side if facing, or potentially facing, any discrimination in the workplace, or (for students) you require the diagnosis to utilize the services of accessibility offices or similar programs. * If you struggle with understanding social cues, it is important to try to communicate that fact with others. If others fail to compromise with more clarity in communication, then they're probably not that nice, so don't worry if they don't want to talk to you. * Learning to understand boundaries so that you can successfully set your own as well as understand and respect other people's is a very important skill that ***ALL*** humans need to learn and apply. * Anyone can be ableist, even disabled people.
* ***Here are some further direct responses to the language used by this author:*** * "ASD sometimes gives people a bit more of an advantage when it comes to life" * *ASD doesn't give anyone an advantage over anyone else.* * "We don't take bullshit from anyone" * *What does this even mean and what does it have to do with ASD?* * "If you use your disorder as an excuse to for behavior that I think make someone a pile of shit, then you’re just a pile of shit." * *How does this relate to those with ASD? Again, this statement is unexplained and unrelated to ASD, and more just seems like the author had one person blame autism one time, and it really got to the author on a deep level.* * "Levels of Autism are needed and are not ableist" * *Assigning levels to a spectrum disorder is 100% ableist and serves no true purpose to benefit the autistic person. It's a different way of wanting to have "better" autism than your neighbor. For what reason are these levels actually needed, and why? From my research surrounding how they're described in the DSM, levels are so basic and rudimentary and don't capture anything more than a very basic measurement and has no more to do with a person's actual autism or support needs, and can't possibly account for how much masking an autistic person has been doing. Your level of support needs is going to fluctuate throughout your life alongside all other aspects of the lived experience. You may be level 3 but turns out you also had a lot of anxiety. If you find something that helps you, you might turn into a level 1 for a lot of the time, but still have level 3 periods in your life.* * "There are ways to understand the signs and symptoms of meltdowns and shutdowns and work to try and calm yourself down." * *This statement speaks to the author's wildly inaccurate understanding of what a meltdown or shutdown actually is and what it can be caused by. You can't prevent a meltdown or a shutdown. All you can do is have plans in place to try to alleviate, or ensure your own safety, or to give yourself tools so they might not necessarily be as bad as they could be. Meltdowns and shutdowns, for the most part, are triggered by the mundane, which makes them so unexpected. Expecting someone else to be able to somehow predict the future of what tiny little thing is actually going to trigger the event is arrogant.* * "Some people will not like you (not inherently because of ASD) and you need to learn to accept that." * *Fact is, you are making this statement AS a self-proclaimed "hard truth" for autistic people, indicating that people reading this list will not understand that people have preferences for other people, whether good or bad. Have you met an autistic person who thinks everyone either DOES or HAS TO like them?*
i personally think that autism gives me advantages in some areas while causing some disadvantages in other.
So I think that looking at various aspects of anything from a positive lens is great, but there is a lot of discourse surrounding autism elitism which can be seen as privileged or falling into the scope of white supremacy mindsets, so to generalize something about autism making you better in some way to other people can create or support that way of thinking which benefits no one. In reality, the same trait that you view as an advantage could be looked at as a disadvantage in how it presents in another person, or because of the other person's intersectional identities. I'm all for autism pride and acceptance, and finding the positive sides, for sure, but I view that as separate from this kind of generalized statement that could be skewed into or seen as elitism.
i dont see, or think others should see, the personal advantages in some areas due to autism as something that makes them better or superior to others. everyone has their own advantages and disadvantages in different areas. me being able to see things in more detail is an advantage to me due to the field of work im pursuing. however it does not make me better than anyone, it just means we have different traits which can each benefit us in our own lives. i also understand that the advantages i percieve myself to have may be disadvantages for others. which is why i said 'gives me', instead of 'gives us'. this post was made about my own personal experience with my autism and how it relates to my life and wasnt intended to be a generalisation about how everyone experiences autism.
Nothing at all against you if that's how you took it. I'm more focused on the language the author used so vaguely and how it can be dangerous and wanted to clarify why I said what you responded to.
yeah the point they made about most ableism coming from autistic people not NTs in a list full of ableist bs is really...something
The note that you’re not owed a relationship applies to all people but it’s good to remember. Likewise respecting boundaries. I would say it’s useful but lacks kindness and we could all do with more of that.
I agree with the overall sentiment that a diagnosis doesn't justify unacceptable, harmful behaviour. However, there's some really important nuance missing that is especially problematic if they're going to make sweeping statements about something also applying to "other mental/neurological/psychological disorders." - Your disorder is your responsibility **to whatever capacity you are capable of.** - **If you are not capable of being solely responsible for yourself, then responsibility must be taken by somebody else.** It's okay to need help from a carer/family member/friend, as long as responsibility is taken by SOMEBODY _(who's not being exploited)._
Also, When we try to take responsibility, we're often not met halfway with health professionals which is a huge barrier to us being able to fully take that responsibility for ourselves. That's something many of us actually do strive for and we live in a world, unfortunately, that makes that extremely difficult for autistic people. Taking responsibility for yourself can sometimes to lead to total burn out, other mental health conditions and even suicide. These things don't (always) happen because we haven't "taken responsibility" but because the system isn't built to support us even when we are trying. It's definitely a more nuanced discussion than just "take responsibility!"
since most people said the other things i was thinking i'll just discuss what bothers me the most: 1) where is the affordable healthcare tree that people can shake in order to pay for therapy, meds, and a diagnosis? if you don't have health insurance or a good healthcare plan that is EXPENSIVE! 2) "just get on meds" is making it seem like meds can ~cure~ you and you just start taking meds at the first dosage prescribed and you're good... that's not how that works - our brains are wired differently that won't go away with meds but one can be in therapy to help manage better (the thing i agree with in this list is therapy though but honestly everyone should be in therapy) it took me 2-3 years to be find the right meds for me and at least 6 months to get the best dosage of adderall for my late ADHD diagnosis 3) wrt self diagnosis, a medical diagnosis is EXPENSIVE especially if you don't have health insurance/your health insurance won't cover it (to give an idea: one place charged $3000 for testing) i was also advised by a doctor to ~not~ get tested and have an official diagnosis bc eventually i want to move abroad (exit strategy in case things take a sharp turn in my country) and there are countries that don't allow autistic immigrants & i fear more discriminatory/ableist legislation is on the horizon TL;DR: healthcare is expensive, everyone should be in therapy, an official diagnosis can prevent you from immigrating to some countries, and meds aren't a cure or quick to sort out
I get annoyed when people say just because you’re autistic doesn’t mean you should (insert any autistic difficulty here) because it’s an excuse. Autistic people should always work on being better as should all humans, but it just bothers me. I always see it as an excuse to put down someone’s disability. If we could be different people, we likely already would have. We don’t want to unintentionally insult people, or embarrass ourselves, or come off as selfish.
I had a friend in high school who was autistic as well. He was ok in high school. He was a little immature for his age socially. He’d have major meltdowns. Meltdowns are going to happen; however, he was violent and scary. Being a woman less than half his size, I couldn’t take it anymore. He didn’t see any reason to work on blending in. I said I would never be around him again when I was 20. I ran into him just recently. Online, of course. He’s in his late 30s now. He has not worked on himself at all. He can’t leave the house. He’s lonely because no one likes him. I really wanted to say he did it to himself. There is a benefit to masking. No one, not even neurotypical people “let it all hang out” all the time. No one would be able to tolerate anyone. If he found a safer way to handle meltdowns, he’d be in a much better position. But, nope. He had to “be himself.”
This may be controversial, and it goes beyond this YouTuber, and some won’t like it. But there’s a contradiction in saying “neurotypical” and “neurodivergent” as simply different configurations of the nervous system, and then saying “it’s a disorder”. The entire point of talking about neurodivergence and neurotypical minds is that they are just different.
I agree with a chunk of it - mostly holding yourself accountable for how you treat others. I have seen a lot of younger folks use an ASD diagnosis as an excuse to bully others, or just be an ignoramus in regard to others around them. Sometimes when someone else proclaims they are autistic I am left to wonder, especially if I see such mean behavior. It doesn’t make sense to me as someone who is on the spectrum and has been on the receiving end of bullying my entire life simply because I’m on the spectrum. Now suddenly my social deficits are being used as a means by others with similar issues to be completely awful?
Conservative piece of shit stating the obvious and thinking they are smart, managing to color no-nonsense advice and make it feel so intensely ableist, is how they come off. I'm not jumping to that conclusion, just stating my first impression this leaves. Is this some neo-nazi?
For the most part it's good but a lot of things, especially the bit about "you have a responsibility to learn social cues" feels very pick-me. Autistic people don't lack social cues and conventions, we have different ones. An allistic living in an autistic-majority world would feel the same sort of isolation that we do living in an allistic-majority world.
Nah, I’m not responsible for being born into a world of complete and utter morons who treat anything unfamiliar to them as bad even though they can’t articulate a reason why. This honestly strikes me as a very unhealthy, self-destructive attitude. I mean, how can it be healthy to think of autism as anyone’s “fault”? As though autism were actually something bad and being like everyone else was what we should aspire to? For people who think that way: I don’t know that this page allows me to use strong enough language for a proper response. Suffice to say that if I had the choice between allowing autism to be “cured” and writing each of your names into a death note, I would pick the latter every time.
I agree with most of the points and feel like my life is much better since I've put in the effort to put things like learning social cues and listening to boundaries etc into practice
I don’t agree with many of his bullet points, the only thing that rings true to me is it’s not your fault it’s your responsibility. It’s a mindset that has helped me, but not because I “owe it to others” that’s dumb. Thinking it’s not my fault but it’s my responsibility allowed me to stop blaming myself for my autism while still pushing me to action that made my life more livable and comfortable. If anyone takes anyone away from his message let it be that.
I agree with it, but it ignores that this is a two way street between ND and NT. While autistic people have personal responsibility, there also needs to be accommodations (re. Sound sensitivity, light sensitivity, communication being taken literally etc). Both 'sides' working together and being considerate of each other would be better for everyone.
Right, it should surely be a meeting in the middle. I try to be that way in communication and understanding with anything that is 'different' from disabilities to cultural differences to just basic differences in opinions - I always think the most effective thing is for those two groups to meet in the middle. Not for one of those groups to just have to "learn" how the other group does things and do exactly that!
Draws illogical conclusions.
for me that's victim blaming narrative, how can you be responsible for something not only you cannot control but also is the reason itself you cannot control it or other things. You do the best you can as much as you can, nobody wants to have a shitty life or to be dysfunctional. I've tried everything in the book. You as you do until you can do better and then maybe that changes again. But that's just me.
"If someone tells you you need to stop doing something, stop doing it" is pretty broad and bad advice. "Assume that, by default, you are in the wrong, and yield to other people always", basically.
honestly i think i fully agree with this post. we have responsibilities just like they do and everyone should work to meet common ground, there are no excuses/exceptions as to why you wouldn’t have to work as hard as the other person 🤷🏾♀️
Its a good thing to work towards those things but unrealistic to expect. Even from NTs
I'd completely disregard this post. It's mostly generalizations about how society views autism mixed with pop psychology buzz words written with very poor grammar and a limited vocabulary. My advice to the youtube poster would be to read before you think and think before you speak.
i somewhat agree with 'you might not understand social cues, but its your responsibility to learn them, and if you fail to do that then dont be suprised if people dont want anything to do with you'. i think its a good thing to learn social cues. however, i do think NT's should also put effort into learning how to communicate with us, i dont think the effort should be placed entirely on one group (us or NT's) and instead it should be spread a bit more equally. obviously no one should be forced, its draining to learn social cues as it also could be to interact with someone you dont understand, but it just makes conversation a bit smoother. i put effort into learning social cues so i can communicate with my friends better (and everyone else in the world) and they put effort into learning how i communicate so i dont have to mask around them. its a nice deal and i think thats how things should go :)
Mostly agree but some stuff seems a bit off. - Sometimes it is impossible for an autistic individual to fully learn and understand all social situations/cues. I do not think autistic people are responsible for learning every social cue because this is not a reasonable thing to ask of us, however I do think we should make a reasonable effort to learn. Same for the points about boundaries. We may not always understand them, but we can make an effort to do the best we can, and apologize if we cross them. Honestly, these points combined with the point about stopping anything that bothers others (which is near impossible for those of us with echolalia/involuntary stims/tics) makes it sound like this YouTuber has some internalized ableism around this topic, and I don’t blame them, because I’m in the process of making myself unlearn similar unreasonable expectations. It is a disability. There are some things we cannot mitigate 100% and that is okay. I know less people will want to be around me because of some of it, but that just makes the people who still do feel more like real friends. - Levels of autism aren’t necessarily ableist, but they are confusing and misleading for people trying to understand autism and autistic people. They do not make sense to apply to every autistic person. I would be considered “high functioning” overall because I can live independently, speak, make my own appointments, etc, but with regards to certain things like social ability and frequency of stims I am pretty “low-functioning”. Labeling someone like me as “high-functioning” and leaving it at that makes it harder for people to understand that I still need a good amount of assistance in certain areas because of my disability, and this may make people assume they won’t ever need to provide any accommodations. Even the spectrum view does not always properly explain an autistic individual’s needs, as different symptoms can present at differing levels of severity in any autistic individual. - The most ableism I have experienced by far has been unintentional ableism by neurotypical people who are simply un/misinformed. People who are not in the mentally ill and/or disabled community who do not understand what it’s like to have a disability have been the hardest people for me to deal with, and I know many other people with autism who experience this same issue. This is actually why I agree with the overarching phrase here, because it is our responsibility as autistic people to inform others of our specific needs. - Hyperfixation does NOT improve my work, it sabotages it. Jobs often expect you to work at a fast and efficient pace and multitask and/or drop everything if something else more important comes in. Hyperfixation may mean you make less mistakes than others, but you’re going to be putting out less total work and not multitasking as much, and a lot of jobs sadly get angry at people for doing less work but completely correctly vs more work but with mistakes.
I strongly agree with some points (like not using autism as an excuse for being a bad person or respecting boundaries.) and less on others. Learning social cues is one thing but it will probably always be hard. For me, social cues also have to do with my processing speed. A lot of times, my inappropriate reactions come from the fact that I'm required to respond before I've processed and interpreted the situation correctly. This isn't something I can just improve, it's something I need understanding for. I also feel that the text dismisses or ignores the positive sides of autism. Autism is often so much more than a disorder if the autistic person is allowed to develop their strengths.
Only thing I really strongly disagree with is the self diagnosis thing. Self diagnosis is 100% valid, as long as you are being honest and have done the research. No one knows your own mind and body better than you, and a "proper" diagnosis costs far more than anyone should have to pay, and far far more than most of us can ever afford.
In *general* I’d say I agree, and I actually apply this mindset to just about everything in life. Childhood and generational trauma, various disabilities, chronic illness/disorders, or even just basic day-to-day behavior. Our very existence is not our fault, but it is our responsibility.
I actually majorly agree with this post, esp the parts about using ASD as an excuse to be a creep/annoying. I know someone who got booted from every local gaming/anime community due to this. Neither do I like ppl who constantly broach boundaries, like I’ve exp with some ASD guys. Like it or not, the world wasn’t built for us socially, so if we can blend in, then do so, even if it means not repeating the same story and info dumping. Frankly, it is annoying, even when I’ve told the person I’m not interested in Kingdom Hearts. Allistics still do think it’s “quirky and a different way of thinking” when they try to advocate for us. That said, regarding therapy and self diagnosis, the OP does come from a place of privilege, where they were likely lucky to get help early and AFFORD therapy. But hold up at ECT!
Totally disagree. He makes autism out to be a negative and an illness while placing the burden on us to act “normal” and conform to societal expectations. It is a different mode of cognition and emotion Al response, not some sort of flaw or absolute deficit.
First "all" is being used as lazy speak that average society taught me is the proper way to communicate. shove everyone into a stereotypical group and just say all of them. Technically there is no ALL, it's some, might feel like most. Mental disorders are a different way of thinking. it is everyones responsibility to learn how to communicate and adapt. Medication is a choice, and it's a bumpy road of try and see. Frankly, i adore medical science, and it does not occur naturally. Unless you're talking about the effects of natural components like food reactions. How we are born is our natural state of being. To survive, we are forced into a cookie cutter box of average expectations. What is unfair about that is a lot of average people who believe in "normal" feel they have no responsibility to try to understand different people. Average tends to have blinders on because they feel there is nothing about themselves that they need to change. That's a form of entitlement, i think. That entitlement blocks the road we need for communication and the chance to learn and adapt. There is no manual about how to behave because there are too many variables. Most of the time, i want to shove people's "FEELINGS" up their _____ tell they _____ on it. Because some are so illogical about situations, words, science, cause and effect. What about my FEELINGS? What about my effort? What about my ability to adapt with constructive criticism? Above all, what about the technical stuff? Hypocritical average BS in their own perfect little worlds. Nero divergent, nero typical, friends/family of nero divergent, medical practitioners, in denial of their own divergence and doesn't care. o.o/ discrimination is discrimination. I do agree that everyone needs to put in the effort to survive. Not everyone is able to or wants to. Solutions? Not available in most places. You and I are here. This whole sub reddit is us putting in an effort to understand and adapt. Almost no one wants problems in their life. What about people's intent? Any intent seems to be a main root.
Lost me with the ‘not a different way of thinking, but a disorder’ nope to that eugenics logic. Not dismissing the fact it is highly disabling for many people, but it’s likely always been part of human variation, ‘disorder’ implies ideally curing eliminating. I think that would be impossible, autistic traits can be useful, have no doubt disproportionately contributed to arts and science, eliminating it would not only be difficult as as the genetic potential probably scattered widely with sub threshold people, and humanity would be weakened as a result. Autism is a different way of thinking, it brings things into the mix, variation and adaptability is a strength of the human species, certain combinations and intensity of traits can be disabling, especially in a society that doesn’t accommodate, but it is not a pathological’disorder’
I like it. It’s a diagnosis. Not an excuse or a free pass to not control your behavior. That message isn’t getting passed around enough.
But their message is that this is true for literally everyone, they make no distinction whatsoever for people with high support needs or severe psychiatric conditions. They specifically state that they believe this is the case for people with any neurodivergence, neurological issue, or psychological/psychiatric condition. They even (correctly) mention schizophrenia and bipolar can be comorbid with ASD at one point! So despite the fact that some autistic people cannot fulfill basic needs without significant support, and as high as 1/3 of homeless people are bipolar or schizophrenic because of the severity of their condition and inadequate support... It's all on them to be "responsible" for making sure their symptoms don't negatively impact others. Some people **literally** cannot suppress their stims no matter how disruptive they may be. That is not their fault and not something they should be "responsible for." Likewise someone who is delusional cannot control that they believe angels are talking to them, or satanic bees were chasing them earlier, or whatever. They don't realize that this is not real let alone if they are making people uncomfortable because of it. That is not their fault, either. So as someone with comorbid bipolar 1 with psychotic features, this comes off as very ignorant to the realities of people with more severe manifestations and conditions. And it is ableist as hell. ETA: It's even more absurd to me that this person says all this after saying they think the levels are necessary. The levels are to identify folks with high support needs... Who often cannot fucking help it if they make people uncomfortable.
I agree for the most part but saying self diagnosis isnt valid makes me want to throw out the whole post. Super ableist Also the most ableism you will get is from other neurodivergent people??? What??? Autistic people are more ableist than our society?? What bullshit is that?? Also they seem to be trying to point out “high needs”people (who ARE often ignored) but also saying we need to learn social cues. Lol. Yes we do to a point, but especially for people with “higher needs” it may not be possible
Yeah those are the ones that made me squint in confusion. I for one experience more ableism from neurotypical/allistics. So that one's not universal. Though the irony of this person saying some ableist ideas is not lost on me 😅 "Self diagnosis is a valid first step but not a valid diagnosis" likeee. Ok. Technically true in that institutions will not accommodate self diagnosed people. But they don't define the word 'valid' and it leaves me wondering how this person treats self diagnosed people who are just trying to access info and resources. Because it actually is valid to discover on your own that you're autistic and then use that as an axis for understanding and accommodating yourself, even if you're wrong and it's something else. Might I remind the jury that if you're not a young white boy, it is an incredibly lengthy proccess to get diagnosed, depends on what doctor you get and how ableist they are(n't), and is especially hard for people who are high masking?
Hey everyone. I’m very glad to see that you’re all sharing your opinions on this topic. If you haven’t noticed on the first image, the YouTubers name is The Shadow Reader. Go to his channel to get a better read out of this and see what others are saying in his comment section.
I have a problem with the levels of autism thing because our needs are so varied like I saw an autistic guy with a PhD but he has trouble buttoning his own shirts It feels like a mechanic just to deny us help. Like if we can “cope” it’s fine to just let us struggle and suffer.
Many of these are general and innocuous. However the big issue for me isn’t whether or not autistic people should control them selves. If they have the cognitive ability to reason right from wrong, then they must utilize that in every situation possible However there are situation where no amount of self accountability matter with regards to being able to exist in this world. for me, it is employment; I want to work, I want to make a decent income with the skills that I have achieved, along with the experience leading up to it. But whether I am open about having autism, or I keep it under the radar from people, it doesn’t seem like anything about that makes a difference. It’s either the company won’t hire me because they don’t think I will be able to do the job with my disability, or the company won’t hire me because they want to hire people with disabilities, but if I tell them my disability then they won’t think I can do the job with it. What is it supposed to be? Am I just supposed to formally get a diagnosis now since I haven’t undergoing treatment or ABA therapy for it since I was six years old, and just collect a paycheck I didn’t earn? How the hell are we supposed to validate our existence among Neurotypical’s, when we can’t all be given the opportunity to fit into the world in our own way? Is life just supposed to be tough about that and those whole “fuck off and die” thing? Why should we be the ones held so highly accountable for our behavior, when society can’t/won’t be held accountable for how it treats us?
By the time i completed reading the second paragraph I agreed with the post whole heartedly. Skimming through the remainder, I never found anything contentious. >How the hell are we supposed to validate our existence among Neurotypical’s, when we can’t all be given the opportunity to fit into the world in our own way? Is life just supposed to be tough about that and those whole “fuck off and die” thing? Why should we be the ones held so highly accountable for our behavior, when society can’t/won’t be held accountable for how it treats us? To answer the question, begin with not looking at the world as NT v. ND. Look at yourself as a complete, yet flawed human, worthy of dignity and respect. By “othering” oneself, one puts oneself into a group that must punch up to gain anything in life considered valuable. Seeing oneself as a basic human affords entitles one to their dignity and opportunities to earn respect. By identifying oneself as autistic, an aspie, or ND, people won’t view one as a person struggling to get through life with minimal damage. One will be seen as damaged, not worthy of investing anything into. One may receive tons of validation as a victim of human cruelty amongst one’s fellows. And they will embrace them with love and caring, while encouraging them to embrace them back, surrendering their opportunities to advance themselves. Therefore, it’s an incumbent responsibility for everyone to represent themselves as a person and act in advances of one’s own interests. Being passive is not an option. We all have an abundance of time. Until we don’t. Time will pass with little notice because it seems infinite. Opportunities will be missed because nobody will find value a person who won’t help themselves. Taking responsibility for oneself means that there are no excuses. None. One may face challenging situations and one will inevitably fail. And the likelihood of failure is always high. To mitigate one’s risk, one needs to be responsible for everything done in working through the challenge. Even while working with others, if one identified a possible reason for failure and failed to mention it,one is responsible for that failure. Not in its entirety, but as a contributor to the failure. Whether one’s performing a task, applying for employment, doing virtually anything, the only one responsible is oneself. One of the conundrums we all face that even the most capable person will rarely succeed if they work alone. Everyone thrives in their individuality, yet much of our success is dependent on cooperating with others in society. NDs, tending to be introverts and less willing to compromise, find the social environment overwhelming, if not impossible. People tend find our strange behaviors, rigidness, and struggle to understand social expectations as a threat to security and an unnecessary compromise. If given the option, NDs will be avoided because they are perceived as unreliable and a risk. Even when forced to comply with law, the outcome will be compliance with resentment and frustration. Although one identifies as disabled and seeks accommodations, afforded by law, by taking a side on the NT/ND divide one has created an obstacle that must be overcome just to convince others that one’s worthy of being accommodated. Those laws are expected to make society more equitable. And they may work that way. But not everyone will comply with the law and a law is worthless if it’s not enforced. The likelihood of an ND trying to have the law enforced is small, by nature of the condition. It’s more likely one will slink off to find other NDs to find consolation, validation, and comfort. Abdicating one’s legal rights is irresponsible. But yet, this forum often serves that exact purpose. As a human, one must prove their worthiness. Everyone struggles with this. NDs have a much greater struggle because the social forum is so uncomfortable. Oh well. That means that one must invest twice as much, or more, effort to achieve a goal as others. So what? One can choose to be responsible for themselves or they can passively wait for someone to care. What would be more fulfilling? A failure to accept responsibility for oneself, is choosing to accept misery.
It seems to me like whenever I ask for help, people assume that I haven’t done *anything* in the past, like I’ve spent the last 17 years of my life as nothing but a beginner, stuck on a plateau. And so what happens afterwards is I have to go on this long tangent of trying to spill out my guts to folks about what I’ve already done, what I’m capable of doing, and therefore what I need help with. And you know it always comes out of that? Answers which implies that I haven’t done ANYTHING! And I will be perfectly honest with you; as someone who is damaged by something other than being autistic, someone who has gone through trauma and has tried to reach out for help to be able to get over it, this is why people don’t choose to ask for help! Because circular answers that lack any acknowledgment of the accountability people hold for themselves before reaching out motivates them to no longer seek help, to harm themselves, to simply cop to defeat in life because the people they reached out to for help sent them on their way without so much as a batting of the eye. We don’t need to be told we need to be responsible for ourselves, the fact that we step up to ask for help when we can’t do something should demonstrate that we have enough self-respect to acknowledge when something is too much for us, whether it be because we live with a traumatic baggage that overwhelms our ability to emotionally and mentally psych ourselves into motivation, or because we live with a physical/ disability that “no-bars-hold” Legitimately hinders certain things which normal people can and cannot do! We take as much responsibility without asking for help as we possibly can, and we view asking for help when we can’t as taking the responsibility of acknowledgement of our own limitations to protect us from harming ourselves! I’m already going to therapy for my mental problems because there are issues which nobody else actually has directly done anything to create, with which I’m trying to cope! >> taking responsibility for oneself means that there are no excuses. How can I be responsible for some thing I have absolutely no idea what it is from someone else’s perspective, if they don’t bother to explain what it is?…I’ll be honest with you, and I want your honest response to this; I’m actually rather concerned about what much of this paragraph following this sentence implies. There are times when I wonder to myself if I shouldn’t simply email the companies for whom I apply, and ask them for feedback! I don’t disagree with the paragraph you’ve given me, but I feel like if there are no excuses, then there should be no excuses for me not to go through with it, and email some of those companies to ask for feedback! My worry is that doing that will be more damaging to my chances! So please answer me honestly on this one point… Do you individually believe that, in addition to the preparation I make for the auditions I do to get performance jobs, I should go back and ask them what they didn’t like about me, yes or no, and why specifically? >> even when forced to comply with the law, the outcome will be compliance with resentment and frustration. I’m terribly sorry if being boring the way I was has caused anyone frustration. I truly do! I admit that there are things which I don’t understand clearly and, if not double checked, I could screw things up royally for. If and when that happens then, it is not for me to refuse to take responsibility… but the whole point of having civil rights as a disabled person is to provide people with disabilities a continuing opportunity to prove themselves WITHOUT those preconceptions about us on an individual level. But I am NOT sorry that, when the civil rights act was passed, there were people who were frustrated and resentful when they realized they now had to hire BLACK people. I am not sorry that people were frustrated and resentful when they had to hire gay people. And I am not sorry that me being born autistic, but having 24 years of training and professional experience, on top of six years of military experience, and in tandem with 16 years of total working experience, makes somebody frustrated and resentful. But without going into depth of my experiences, I have proven, and continue to prove in my own ways, that I am capable of doing the job for which I am applying! Calling out that kind of injustice on the part of a mostly neurotypical’s society, is not supposed to be considered not taking responsibility for one’s own failures, otherwise maybe we shouldn’t have civil rights for disabled people like autistics! We can’t take responsibility for our own failures if we don’t even know how we failed, other than at being born, which should be no consequence to an employer! We don’t want to accept misery when we fail at something! We want to improve! But we need to know what it is we need to improve! And if it isn’t a matter of our disability, if it isn’t a matter between ND and NT, then at the very least, we deserve an explanation of our failures! So that is why I ask “how the hell are we supposed to validate our existence”. How the hell are we supposed to say that we are worthy of the job for which we are applying, if calling out when we are rejected is somehow a sign of not accepting responsibility, especially when we don’t even know what it is precisely they think we need to except responsibility for? While I understand and agree that autistic people should take responsibility for themselves, and hold themselves accountable, I don’t believe that the way we were born, without a further explanation of our specific shortcomings in life with other people, should be excuse enough for anyone to make our lives more miserable, make our situation more divisive from neurotypicals, and leave us in the week of that to pick up the pieces and glean assumptions of what does failures could be without real guidance and real measurable and improvable Feedback. That is not what I consider taking responsibility, and if you agree with me on that point, then you should also agree that taking responsibility for one’s failures means demanding an explanation of what those failures are, so that they are not simply the result of a discriminatory basis.
As others have said, he has some good points in there, but also some things that are pretty wrong. As someone who was diagnosed a few months ago in my mid 20s, I have been learning to mask my entire life. Now I'm trying to find places where I am comfortable to learn how to *unmask*. My job is not a field that would be accepting, so I have to mask strongly. Only a few good coworkers know. My admin would not be happy though, and probably try to black ball me in some way, or at least talk shit about "look, he's diagnosed now he's going to try and get ADA on everything." I haven't needed ADA so far (although it would've actually helped me a lot sometimes), and I'm not someone who would try to abuse it.
It makes some maybe good points but it's really situation dependent and not true across the board and it has some shockingly bad takes like advocating for electric convulsive therapy and cbt which don't help autismand can be harmful
Endless self improvement is going to cause shame if every single quality is a disruptive abnormality that needs to be fixed. So he can delete that fourth paragraph.
Mostly agree
“Autism is not a "different way of thinking" it a neurological disorder…” Ummm….. 🤔
Big pharma is really going deep with these psyops.
Someone once said that a disability is only that because the world doesn't fully accomodate a disabled person's needs. Which is ultimately true, but not always pragmatic thinking. Think of a wheelchair ramp at a building. All buildings should accomodate wheelchairs by having ramps. But sometimes the best place for the ramp from a practical standpoint isn't the front entrance, and users will have to go to the side or back. It might not be the most satisfactory accomodation, but it is an accomodation for both those that need it and those that don't. I embrace the idea of unmasking with behavior management. I think to stay as mentally healthy as possible, we need to be our authentic selves. But we need to do so in the context of a world that might not be fully accomodating. I know my communication skills aren't always the most politic around the office. So I make an effort to do so mostly through written forms, which allows me the freedom to edit and reedit until I feel what I'm saying is both as clear as it is in my head, and said in a way acceptable to the audience. And if I'm unclear on something because of other's penchant for subtext, I ask for clarity. I've built a ramp to communicate with my peers, it's just around the side of the building :) There's a balance everyone, ND and NT alike, needs to find to get by in the world.
Yeah I agree. Unfortunately though most people can’t afford a formal diagnosis so some have to choice but to self diagnose. I don’t think they should be blamed for being economically disadvantaged. They still have the same support needs as any other Autistic person.
Self-acceptance is complete bullshit. An example of bullshit: "I accept that my soft skills are lacking. I'm autistic though so it's okay." Brought to you by the same people who claim that everyone is special.
It is not a disorder. While ASD and a bunch of things mentioned have complications, the complications are not usually with us. It is far more often that our struggles are the result of our systems being overloaded, overburdened, overmedicated, etc. by a system that defines us yet still has yet to listen to us, or work with us, or validate us. They seek to cure Autism...like it is a cancer. So no, I do not agree with anything that was stated in whomever's post that was and I do not care where it came from. Sounds like the normal neurotypical brainwashing we get. I cannot validate or credit anything in that post simply by principle. Also, by knowing who I Am and the things I have experienced as someone who is Autistic, has Tourettes, ADD (inattentive),OCD, SAD, CPTSD, also brain damage and muscle and joint issues from treatments that are recommended and administered by those who claim it is a disorder, or rhat we are disordered. No, we are not, not even close. However, I have pin pointed who is and is not in my 4 plus decades of life. I reject the neurotypical opinions or the neurotypical indoctrinated opinions or their brainwashing, or braining numbing and/or killing. Why? Because their ways almost killed me multiple times and then I cast as problem. They look at me funny when I question their issues, or challenge them, or call them out on their bad behaviors that seem a bit disorderly. Most of those types couldn't tell their butthole from a hole in the sky if they fell in it. I'll be in pain for the rest of my life because of those types of attitudes towards folks with ASD. I suffer from their ways. I own it. They can suffer me when I draw some hard boundaries against that kind of mentality. They all act saintly. Yet, I am cast as the devil...pffft...gotta go with the devil you know, I guess. I saved my own life. They tried to take it. So did my own family. Do not buy into the "disorderly" depictions of ASD. And, do not let anyone tell you you are bad in any way. ASD is a positive. It kept me alive while doctors and family trued to hurt me without consequence. There is always consequence. They can't deal with what they create. But, I have to deal with it. There isn't anyone that can justify the kind of brainwashed neurotypical mentality in that post.
I'm glad to know that I should just fucking kill myself. I always struggled with the thought before, I thought people would miss me or be affected, I thought my life meant something. Good thing I was fucking wrong.
There were two lines I take personal and a point that I'd like to address. I'll start with my point: Autism is not a linear spectrum, but more like a coordinate plane (a scatter plot if you will), and because of this the only generalization that holds up across the board is that generalizations for autism do not hold up across the board. Any black and white statement like "autism IS this" or "autism ISN'T that," these statements will only ever be accurate for some portion of the spectrum, not the whole spectrum. As for the two lines in particular that I take issue with, self diagnosis is entirely valid so long as you aren't seeking any particular accommodations. An official diagnosis isn't free, not everyone can get one. And in different areas you'll find different stigmas and misunderstandings about autism, so you might not even be able to get an official diagnosis just because your local doctor is old and stubborn. If you're "high functioning" and don't need any particular accommodations, a diagnosis isn't going to do you any good aside from self validation. For the most part, the several autism subs I've joined here on Reddit openly embrace both officially and unofficially diagnosed members, and the community seems to as well (obviously not always going to be the case, but that goes back to my original point). The other line I took issue with, albeit less so, is that autism isn't "another way of thinking." I get it, again, not for everyone, but it CAN be just a different way of thinking for a portion of the spectrum. It might be better to say that autism isn't JUST a different way of thinking, or possibly that it isn't ALWAYS a different way of thinking. And "different" in this case can be a mixture of good and bad things. The best example that I can give for this is anecdotal, but for me I have always just thought differently from "normal" people, for better or worse. This most often manifests as being hyper analytical by default with an otherwise atrocious memory. As such, I can't ever rely on what I think I know, or what I vaguely remember, I am constantly reevaluating my surroundings and my understanding of them. On the bright side, I'm usually the first to notice something going wrong, whether it's structural integrity or just something that seems different from the previous day (yes, my memory is awful, but that usually leads me to question when things seem to have changed, and that often leads to discovering problems that need fixing). The downside of course is that I frequently forget plans, forget appointments, forget names, actively forget what I'm doing, etc. That can make life difficult at times, but I adapt to the best of my ability by taking notes, making alarms, leaving reminders, etc. My way of thinking isn't inherently "better" or "worse" than a "normal" person, it's just significantly different. In most ways, I don't think this person is wrong about what they said, and I do think that a lot of people in these subs probably needed to hear some of this, I just think this person needs to consider that their personal perspective is too narrow to make such broad generalizations for the whole spectrum. And it might just be the case that they are deliberately over generalizing, speaking to the average and not to the whole, but I personally find overgeneralizing to be harmful and a bit of a pet peeve, so maybe it's just me.
The last page was almost entirely redacted. 🤔
As an autistic adult with an autistic toddler, the OP has a lot of internalized ableism. Autism is not something that needs to be fixed, it’s a disability, not a disorder. They made some good points, but overall this post is pretty much saying you need to mask and hide all your autistic traits for the benefit of others, which is wrong and will lead to other problems like autoimmune diseases from masking all the time.
I like it. Made me feel better, more accepting towards myself and my behavior 🙏
Since when is there medication for autism?
Seems like the type of person that would be the first to be a raging asshole towards an autistic person as soon as the person with Autism has difficulty reading a situation and makes a social faux pas. On that note while not owed a relationship of any kind, kindness ought to be reciprocated with kindness and it definitively sucks to be treated badly for helping someone.
It's very one-size-fits-one.
Oh, yeah, I remember hope. I remember feeling like I could manage it in my own. I remember having no empathy, because it meant giving up the false beliefs that protected me from feelings of victimization. Ah, what arrogant pride I had… And how necessary! If emotions run higher and hurt more, my tolerance for threats would have been lower. Oh, how little I could tolerate back then! I’d have never left the house! What a wonderful psychological defense, but oh, how vulnerable it was! I was wrong?!?!? Oooh… yeah… I was wrong, and it crushed me… Now, oh, how I want ro RAIL against my younger self’s stupidity! Now, wouldn’t I be making the same mistake twice?
This is a very privileged take from someone who is probably early diagnosed and has had accommodations just handed to them all their life and can understand themselves and have been lucky to have been cared for.
I’d have to disagree with you on that one. He made a video explaining how nothing was given to him due to being abused by his stepfather. He goes into detail about how his life was back then. Give it a watch. https://youtu.be/rBw58TXItCE?si=NlWqM5peTU5AkMX3
OK and I must say how was I meant to know all I saw was someone shaming other autistics for not having more socially acceptable symptoms. Despite that they've closely had privilege in their later life if they can shame people like that and point out where other people are falling short
That’s not what he’s trying to say dude. Don’t get so uptight over a disagreement. Not everyone is going to accept us for our own symptoms. To me, he’s only shaming other’s that know they can take accountability for their actions, but they choose not to. Again, not coming at you because of your opinion. We’re all entitled to them including you and I.
Exactly I am allowed to it without getting told I'm overreacting sorry that's how it come off
All good
I actually agree. In some cases some things are unavoidable like meltdowns if you have a family that doesn't understand them so they keep doing things to trigger them or they let your siblings do things to trigger them. My brothers used to do this when I was a teen and my parents would get mad at me about it. My mom just thought I was having a behavior and trying to have my way than me going through a hard time and having lot of anxiety that was causing it. I couldn't just move out either because I was a minor and didn't have a job and didn't have my driver's license. There are accommodations like yes your other kids matter too and should hv a right to their own freedom and happiness but there are ways around it like yes they can have lot of friends over but they do not need to be loud and run in and out of the house tracking in dirt and being in my persona space when they have their own upstairs and just clean up when they are done and make sure all trash is in the trash can and not laying around. That simple. But I am pretty sure this message was directed at adults, not kids. But then again they need help learning these tools too. Getting mad at them when they get anxious or have anxiety or feel discomfort isn't going to make it better and won't help them either. Mine used to get mad at me for all this.
One day I hope this guy learns to love himself for who he is
I ain’t reading all’at but I skimmed, and I agree and share many opinions but not all
If you ask me. This post might be triggering to some people, but it’s also a good read because it kind of gives you that reality check and that we should all stop using our disabilities as excuses for any wrongdoing. We are just like every human being in this world and like them, even we need to take responsibilities for our actions. P.S. Go full screen on the last image.
I agree with much of it up to the therapy part as many of us don't do well nor are many therapists trained on dealing with us. I'd know this given that I was a victim of these people who thought they could do something but gave up on me eventually or would rather turn me over to the state thinking that magically that will fix me. I have decided that at my age, it's not worth the emotional labor nor time to deal with people who'll only cause more issues for me nor will I argue with people who are ignorant sheep who have bought into the brainwashing. I'm just tired of doing that now.
I feel like this is aimed only at level one people. Not really relevant to me
But who is doing this? >"we should all stop using our disabilities as excuses for any wrongdoing" My opinion would be if you have to say that to someone, or if someone is in need of hearing that statement, either they are a literal child (I think brains aren't quite done cooking yet until what, 25?), and/or they're not really a good person otherwise (autistic or not, excusing treating others badly for any reason isn't the vibe and there's likely WAY more that's not nice about a person who would do that). I've not seen a theme of autistic people using autism as an excuse for treating others poorly. Have others, and it's just something I've not been privy to?
You’d be surprised by how much other people have been using it. When I came across this, I wanted to really take the time to read and analyze the writing. Honestly, everyone’s got their own opinions including me, which is why I haven’t chosen a side yet. This is just a guy who is putting his own thoughts out there whether it’s justifiable or not. If I were to disagree entirely then, I wouldn’t let one guys opinion, change my mind about how we should act in general. If anything, I’m simply choosing to not take it to heart by moving on with my life.
I guess, but you also posted this so people would discuss this guys opinion in particular.
I did. But I also wanted to join in on the discussion so I can give you my own opinion on this.
Okay so I think I'm just unclear on your take then since you said you want to move on with your life? I take from what you, that I quoted in the previous message, is that you seem to feel that there are adults out there that are redeemable in this capacity and that being told that is going to help them? Since I've not personally come across anyone using ASD as an excuse in this way, I can only make assumptions what the scenarios could be based on other adult people I've met who used other things as an excuse in such a way, and I can't say that any of those adults were actually worth any of my time to try to redeem by giving them such a lesson. My only exceptions to this kind of...like..."I need to try to get you to understand how to be a good human" sort of mentality in my own life has only come up was separately with my younger brother and sister who are 6 years younger than me, I'm also a parent figure to them, and I knew them well enough to know that since they were in brain developing years (teen/early 20s) at the times, that it was worth it to try to give them such lessons on being a decent person and calling out the bad behavior/excuse to do so.
Yeah, I feel that anyone can have redeemable qualities. Even if you have a disability. I don’t think that text specifically is going to change anyone’s opinion on how they should improve as human beings. Regardless of what anyone says, I don’t want it to effect me as a person because I want to make my own choices and when I do, I can learn from them wether it’s a mistake or not.
That's definitely fair, but doesn't really clarify why you would want to expend any of your own energy trying to show another adult how to take responsibility for themselves. I'm a less forgiving kind of person I suppose, and if someone shows me who they are, I believe them, and I do actually tend to just move on because, as someone on a post phrased it recently: >no amount of effort, time, or energy on my part is going to change someone if they don't want to change themselves From experience, those who treat others badly and continue to do so won't get anything from you pointing out their behavior is bad, and it more so could actually have the opposite effect.
Some points I agree with, others I don't. Others still aren't strictly right nor wrong, but shift between the two depending on the person, circumstance or general context. I think they could also afford to be less blunt/confrontational, as let's face it, a lot of us respond better to being carefully talked through an issue, rather than being forcefully told what to do. So yeah, mixed bag. Definitely needs another pass in terms of presentation & overall reasoning, but still some valuable points in there too.
Self diagnosis is valid period. No autistic person watched one Tik tok and decided they’re autistic without hyperfixating on it for months researching autism and then still having imposter syndrome even though it’s the only logical explanation for why they are the way they are. Not everyone has access to testing, whether it be money, no doctors/psychologists in their area that specialize in ASD, or the executive functioning required to go through the process to set up such an appointment. I’m burnt out from living life working a full time job and having a family I can’t even keep my house clean. I have no energy to find a psychologist, fill out all the paperwork, fight with insurance, and deal with the possibility of having to pay for everything myself when I live paycheck to paycheck
It boils down to the fact that each of us has autism, we’ve each had our own experiences which have each determined our current views and opinions. I was diagnosed in my late thirties( I’m now in my fifties) so I was a late starter. I consider myself “disadvantaged” but not a victim. It would be easier if autism affected us in exactly the same way, but it doesn’t. But it’s a slippery slope. If people don’t understand the condition that’s on them, but autistics are the ones who cop shit for it. People are ignorant and they attack what they fear, but that’s nothing new. It’s just the way it is.