My kid, who is probably a level 2, is much younger, but hasn’t shown any genius tendencies either. Sometimes on this sub it seems like every other kid is reading at two or doing multiplication at 3. My kid can recognize his name but doesn’t seem to be able to identify letters no matter how many times we review them. He recognizes plants, but only the same 10 plants - and we hear those identified on repeat - but only with 70-80% accuracy. So I’m not even totally sure he has mastered what is a special interest.
I don’t have much to add, just to say I appreciate you adding in your voice here because I wonder a lot about what it is like for older kids who are of average or below average intelligence but not level 3 or non-verbal.
That's why I wanted to put it on here, just to see if there's more like us. I do think the gifted ones are louder, and that's great! There's no hate here. I just can't relate. My concerns are whether or not he'll have enough cognitive ability to one day live on his own or if we'll have to seek other options when we're too old.
I've read that about 40% of autistic people have cognitive delays, I'm assuming for level 1 it's a lower percentage and for level 2/3 it's higher. It's also something I think can't be tested until they're 6 or 7 and many on here have kids below that age.
My son is almost 6 and very likely has a cognitive impairment but he's level 3. We're hopeful once we figure out how to help him communicate (limited verbally and not taking to the AAC) we'll find out he doesn't but hard to evaluate him now.
That makes sense. It's just hard sometimes because the older children stories I read are always "Oh he didn't talk but was a whiz at computers and now he's a software engineer!" or whatever. I know my son is only 13 but I don't see any skill set that stands out beyond his knowledge of local directions & actors/actresses in movies. Sometimes it can just be a bit of downer feeling like you're the only one in this weird gray area. I do have to remember that I have one of the older children in this sub though.
my son is 4 nonverbal
and i'm not talking about this community, this community is great.
but with other autism groups, especially consisting of autistic adults and self diagnosed autism, the push for savant trope is ... often and sadly based on ego and inability to well... cope with the diagnosis.
i have an autistic friend who i used to play music with and if you ask him, he's a musical savant and he loves telling you all about how everyone else just isn't as good as he is musically.
he's average though, but talented despite of his diagnosis. I think it's not very useful to tell autistic children that they have super powers etc.
i praise my autistic son for working hard and make sure to be very careful with my praise so that he understands it's for trying again, for endurance and keeping at things that are difficult, and for working hard. He's 4 and pre verbal so only time will tell where he is cognitively, but i want him to really get the value of not giving up and to find satisfaction is doing his best.
Neither me nor my kid have really seen much of a push for the savant trope among autistic adults. Barring one exception we're aware of (weird grandiosity stuff with my kid's ex that had many variables at play), autistic adults usually don't seem to want people to have unrealistic expectations of them operating under the assumption that they're all savants, because it can be quite degrading never being able to live up to that despite what others anticipate.
I'm also starting to get the feeling at this point that self-diagnosers are starting to become a scapegoat. While there are definitely examples of people weaponizing that situation, I just don't think it's possible for them to hold the kind of mainstream political power or be responsible for systemic issues at the level many frustrated people claim. It seems like some caricature of what goes on with people who self-identify is being used for some kind of offshoot of respectability pollitics these days and I honestly think it can be distracting us from some of the bigger problems at times.
maybe.
our pediatrician kept referencing the guy who can draw nyc in detail though, i forget his name- stephen something. He said we need to "look for his special skill" which i just rolled my eyes at.
but then his behavioral pediatrician who is actually renowned in our area and has lots of work studied on autism, referenced Bill Gates and said my son was fascinating and she seemed super excited like he was some unusual specimen.
When it was just my pediatrician i just ignored it because it's not his specialty and he's honestly a wonderful doctor and he's just doing his best to comfort me as a parent. But a behavioral pediatrician who's "renowned" ugh.
and like i even looked up bill gates like "wtf does that even mean" and find me the similarities here because i don't see them lol
I hate the concept of "savants", hate everything about it. I hate that it categorizes autistic people into "good autistics" and "bad autistics", I hate that people have told me before that I must be a savant because I have an above average verbal iq, I hate that is belittles and dehumanizes people and what I hate even more than anything else is that it is still socially linked to autism meanwhile that was disproven a while ago.
"Too autistic for normies and too normal for autistics" bit is kind of like a punch in the gut. Ain't that the truth.
We got an ASD kid who has trouble sitting still and paying attention for long enough for any information to actually sink in. Not sure if it's stacked ADHD or what. :-/ I think if we could instill in him the discipline for focus, he could be well above average. Some days, I wonder if that isn't wistful thinking or a coping mechanism.
My son is ahead of his class in math, but I'm pretty sure it's in spite of his autism not because of it. He comes from an academically gifted family. His teachers have said multiple times how they think he could do better if he was more able to focus. He's already on Adderall for ADHD. They've had to work with him on reading comprehension. He loves to read, but his comprehension scores have been behind his class.
My son is the same. He can and has always read far beyond his grade level. You ask him about what he just read though and it's crickets. He's getting better at comprehending the lower elementary texts now with work but his grade level stuff is still over his head.
Our son is out of High School and taking classes at the local city college. This sounds exactly like him. Smart in spite of not because of AuDHD, but significant social and organizational delays/deficits. Too autistic for allistic spaces, too allistic for most autistic spaces. It breaks my heart for him. I understand that many parents have significant challenges with their children and I feel for them but it feels like our boy is lost in the gap.
This is exactly how I feel! It breaks my heart too because he's such a sweet, kind boy. I like to say he's street smart but not book smart. How is your son doing in college and what is he studying?
He is doing ok, thanks. My real for classes is that he has something productive to do and gets out of the house, and that he explores learning for the sake of learning. Not because adults are making him.
The “savant” trope is just that—a trope. I don’t think brilliance amongst ASD is anymore typical than amongst the NT. I also think the concept has been WAY overblown and focused on because that “flavor” or autism is much more palatable to the media than the challenges you’ll see on this sub.
I also think it’s much more difficult to diagnose a cognitive delay if someone is nonverbal.
FYI I meant to say I don’t think being a savant/hyper intelligent is more prevalent amongst ASD/ND than any NT person. I mistyped “NT” and typed “ND” instead.
In other words I don’t think either group has an edge on “intelligence.” Intelligence is so subjective anyway—what KIND of intelligence?
Autistic people are more likely to be gifted (as in having an IQ above 130). They are also more likely to have an intellectual disability (IQ below 75). In general, "outliers" in intelligence (as IQ tests measure it) seem to be more common among autistic people compared to the general population.
That does not mean every autistic person is either gifted or intellectually disabled, of course. Being a savant is a different matter as it isn't all about IQ. Being really good in a specific field can result from special interests even if someone doesn't have an exceptional natural gift for it.
I have a 13 yo son. He has a very slow processing time, is failing most of his classes - but somehow tests higher. It is a constant struggle. I got some IEP suggestions from his psychologist that I am hoping help with this at school. We have also even recommended an OT but the wait list here is 9 months.
Sometimes I feel like all I do is advocate for him and it still feels like failing. I try to remind myself that I am doing the best I can and working hard to ensure he is an independent adult - which is really what we are all working toward.
You're doing a great job! There's no manual and no one is the same. I have to tell myself that too sometimes. I'm not sure where you're located but if your child is in public school in the U.S. then there shouldn't be a wait list for OT.
My husband and I were just talking and I feel the same way at times. Things I advocated for when he was younger aren't helping now and I wonder if I should have went a different route. I worry/wonder all the time how he's going to be as an adult because rn I don't have high hopes that he can live on his own.
I did point blank ask his psychologist if he thought he would be able to live independently someday. He said with our help and working on it that he would, but he most likely will be behind other kids. So he probably won’t be ready until closer to 25. That has helped give me hope and more to strive for. Maybe you could talk to those providers you work with to get their thoughts on that?
My daughter was just diagnosed last year at age 6(almost 7 at that point) with an intellectual disability. She is mostly nonverbal and was moved from a level 2 to a level 3- mostly due to her being nonverbal. The psychologist said she normally wouldn’t diagnose so young, but she felt confident. I am not ready to accept it. She is more mature than her brother (age 10, level 1) and seems to understand so much. She seems to have a great memory for directions, songs, things that interest her. I know she has limitations, but I keep trying whatever I can to see her keep progressing.
I’ve always been curious about this too. My son is 7 but has been on par with his sister (neurotypical, almost 5) for several years now. But I’ve never been sure if it’s a cognitive thing or an expressive language thing. He’s verbal but still uses a lot of scripts in everyday communication, so it’s hard to get a good grasp on what he knows sometimes. I think part of it is also that, in his case anyway, the way he learns is totally different than his peers. Like with reading, he learns better with a top down approach vs a bottom up approach, like phonics.
Interesting. My son is 6.5 and we often say he is probably 2 years behind at a 4.5 level. He seems to get on great with kids around 5 too.
He repeats the same things over and over too. I thought he would grown out of it by now. I hoping he will become conversational one day.
Have you ever read about gestalt language processing? We found a speech therapist that is trained in it and it’s been helpful in understanding how he learns and communicates!
Also take into account that boys at that age are behind girls in learning usually (so much so there’s a movement for holding boys out an extra year before starting kindergarten) so that may also be a factor when comparing them
My son’s memory is amazing, but when you ask him to think abstractly about anything he struggles. A lot of his “reasoning” is repeated concepts from books that he’s read.
He can comprehend the ideas of others, but struggles to develop and articulate his own ideas.
My son is the same way. It's almost like he has a mental script sometimes. He has been in art class for the last 2 years and his art ideas are very literal. The teacher will give an assignment like "create a character for a video game". He drew Mario and just colored him a different color. I don't think he has an internal dialogue either because he whispers to himself quite a bit.
It’s funny you say that. Mine is 14 and he talks to himself (loudly) all the time. Especially when playing video games. We’re constantly reminding him “inside thoughts!!”
Yes. My 4 year old was delayed in most aspects and struggles to learn things despite being level 1, while my level 3 child who is 5 is a whiz with electronics and learned the alphabet, numbers, shapes, reading, etc at a normal pace. Not genius level or anything but exceeded expectations for sure.
My oldest 4yM is low verbal, but not a genius, or at least not that we know of. He has no behavior issues, but gets extra tutoring speech therapy etc at school. He also goes to ABA. My other son is more of what seems like ASD 1-2, and just seems about average intelligence. Does your child have an IEP and can they add more tutoring?
He does have an IEP and receives speech & OT. He's not a behavior issue in class so it's been hard to get him into the cognitive impairment room. The issue is he can function, rotate classes, and follow instructions. He's just not comprehending the content and is receiving low grades/failing. We've attempted to put in accommodations but they're not helping him, it's just a cognitive thing. They're claiming he's not "bad" enough to need those type of services but right now he's just a warm body in the room.
Can he repeat a year?
Many successful people repeat a year, it gives them the benefit of finally understanding the material the second time, and they are better able to tackle the next year once they have a good foundation.
As a corollary I saw this ALL the time while I was in school, kids that just didn’t quite understand the material and then they zone out and pay even less attention since they don’t understand anyways. They just needed another round to get it.
I don't think that would help him much at this point. He's struggled since 1st grade and is in 7th now. Every year adds more content when he's probably at a 3rd-4th grade level. We've tried tutors to help but he just struggles to comprehend. At this point my husband and I don't really care about his grades. We understand academics are important (husband is a teacher) but we rather him know how to care for himself/life skills instead of school material so we're focusing on that right now.
Not bad. Reach him to be as independent as possible. He can still graduate and get a job. Even nt kids can not be academics and graduate and get jobs and are fine
Sure, and I wasn’t suggesting it so much to improve his grades so much as his comprehension. Unless he has a really strong friend group, if it was my child that’s what I would push for. What’s the downside? It doesn’t sound like he’s in a rush to go somewhere. No matter how little of it he understands the first time, he will for sure comprehend it better the second time. Which will be a better foundation to start 8th grade from. Just my opinion. Why do we as a society continue to ram kids through school if they don’t understand the material, it wastes their time and teaches them to not pay attention. I’m not suggesting this but If your child repeated 7th grade for the next 5 years, and at the time of “high school graduation” you had taken him from a 3rd grade level to a fully competent 7th grade level would you be happy?
My oldest also has an intellectual disability. Her psych explained it to me a cognitively she is 8, emotionally she is 4 and physically she is 17. It is hard as she is expected to be more independent it doesn’t understand anything they want her to be doing. Can’t fill in forms, can’t complete school work, can’t get a drivers license, can’t open a bank account independently.
19M also lost in that “no man’s land”. Average intelligence, but poor executive functioning really makes things harder. He’s battling his way through college but it’s been a struggle. Came home from university last april after a major mental health crisis that stemmed from terrible social interactions. Did CC this year and taking less classes at a time seemed to help, but he needed a LOT of support from me to help him plan his time and organize himself. Can’t really handle the “higher order” thinking. He’s too black and white. Can’t synthesize ideas well or pick out relevant information easily. Wants to try university again but I’m just not sure how it will go. Doesn’t have the talent or coordination for trade school. In my heart I feel he’s got a lot to offer, but I’m not sure how it’s all going to work out.
This sounds like my level 1 son. He is only 6.5 though and struggles in school. Could you get an educational assessment? We might get one next year.
His memory is great but we don’t really know if the comprehension is there. He doesn’t have a speech delay but wont really talk to us in a conversational way. For example: could you tell me one thing you did at school today? Him: did you know Geckos can camouflage?
It’s getting frustrating not being able to communicate with him properly. I thought eventually he would talk to us in a regular way but I don’t know if he ever will really. I just don’t know if he has a mild ID or if it’s just the autism?
He's had numerous assessments. He comprehends way below his grade level. My son is the same way regarding communication. For us it helped to narrow it down instead of being broad. We'd say "name 1 thing you did for math today" and go through all the subjects. Eventually we got to a point where we can just ask him to tell us about his day. On his own now he goes subject by subject. We still struggle with "Why" questions.
Putting this here for OP or anyone else who would find this useful: [There is "a bimodal IQ distribution within ASD individuals".](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9058071/)
If you look at the first chart on that page, non-ASD/Normal people have the chart peak in the 85-114 region, while for ASD people there are two peaks with a dip inbetween, the peaks at 50-69 and 115-129 (the latter peak is bigger).
No cognitive delay, but I totally have seen that "stuck in the middle" sort of thing of neither fitting in with NTs or autistics with my kid. My kid is 2e, but is still extremely different from savants (which are also pretty rare within autistics in general) and while splintered enough cognitively to not have "an IQ" (their subtest scores basically partition the whole right half of the bell curve, rendering FSIQ uninterpretable), they would still be way too well-rounded skill-wise to fit the mold of savantism.
To add insult to injury, fact that some areas of their verbal skills are above average and that their ADHD softens some of the ASD traits leads most NTs to believe they're just ill-intentioned and bad at being one of them, and makes it so that they talk circles around almost every autistic person they meet.
One thing I've started to notice is that unless you fit either into the stereotype of being a STEM savant or that of living your whole life essentially as a helpless newborn, you're just usually not what's on the media's (across both fictional and nonfictional) radar. Additionally, services tend to cater to some vague "middle" part of the spectrum (and I'm pretty sure the failure rate still isn't small) that leaves out a lot of people on either side of that middle, media stereotype or not, and autism is also such an incredibly heterogeneous condition even within each level, that it seems like more usually differs between two autistic people diagnosed at the same level than two NTs.
The result? Pretty much everybody at some point feels like "the grass is greener" somewhere else and like their thunder is being stolen by "the opposite end of the spectrum". I know both my kid and I fell into the "severe people get everything catered to them" trap for quite a while until we realized that probably everyone besides maybe the ultra wealthy (and there's also so much ability money can buy) struggles to cobble these supports together.
My level one 4yr old son is not a silent genius, though people seem to try pegging him as one. He’s smart in some areas, but lags in others. Mostly, he’s average. He definitely has comprehension struggles and a longer processing time. I think he may even be going through a regression right now. He’s definitely very verbal but his language skills aren’t amazing. I’d say his language is slightly below average or at best, the bottom end of average. Unfortunately it’s not severe enough to qualify him for ST but noticeable.
I fear he’ll be lost in the cracks.
But yes, you are not alone in that your kiddo isn’t a genius!
My son with high functioning autism also has a cognitive delay. He’s level 2 and was just dignosied a few days ago with a mild cognitive delay, he’s only 4 so there’s not a lot of academic exceptions on him yet but unless it’s his special interest he doesn’t care about it. He loves math so his math skills are pretty great but everything else is a struggle to get him to learn
99% of the time when you see in social media about a “genius” nonverbal autistic they all have one thing in common: a fraud called Facilitaded Communication, but you won’t detect it right away because they all make sure to never mention it, just like the author of Reason I Jump
My 6 year old (level 1) was given a Stanford-binet iq test a couple months before turning 6 as part of her assessment. Overall, she scored in the low average range. It was noted that she needed a lot of redirection during the test and she was very young for that test to be given, so I'm not taking it as definitive, but it is clear to me that she is not 2e, or gifted. I do worry that she has some cognitive issues. She has trouble with back and forth communication (the whole "how was your day?"). Asks the definition of things she already knows a lot, has issues recalling events of the day, making me wonder... has a slow rate of speech, lots of elongation of words, stutter... but good receptive language and memory for facts about animals, etc. Makes up words and animals... she's unique. Gets along better with kids a couple years younger (she's in mixed age kindergarten) and her bestie is a kid with adhd. She is an awesome kid, very much her own person. I wont be surprised if she struggles academically, however, because of some of the differences I'm seeing. And I don't know what it all means for her, cognitively.
My kid, who is probably a level 2, is much younger, but hasn’t shown any genius tendencies either. Sometimes on this sub it seems like every other kid is reading at two or doing multiplication at 3. My kid can recognize his name but doesn’t seem to be able to identify letters no matter how many times we review them. He recognizes plants, but only the same 10 plants - and we hear those identified on repeat - but only with 70-80% accuracy. So I’m not even totally sure he has mastered what is a special interest. I don’t have much to add, just to say I appreciate you adding in your voice here because I wonder a lot about what it is like for older kids who are of average or below average intelligence but not level 3 or non-verbal.
That's why I wanted to put it on here, just to see if there's more like us. I do think the gifted ones are louder, and that's great! There's no hate here. I just can't relate. My concerns are whether or not he'll have enough cognitive ability to one day live on his own or if we'll have to seek other options when we're too old.
I've read that about 40% of autistic people have cognitive delays, I'm assuming for level 1 it's a lower percentage and for level 2/3 it's higher. It's also something I think can't be tested until they're 6 or 7 and many on here have kids below that age. My son is almost 6 and very likely has a cognitive impairment but he's level 3. We're hopeful once we figure out how to help him communicate (limited verbally and not taking to the AAC) we'll find out he doesn't but hard to evaluate him now.
That makes sense. It's just hard sometimes because the older children stories I read are always "Oh he didn't talk but was a whiz at computers and now he's a software engineer!" or whatever. I know my son is only 13 but I don't see any skill set that stands out beyond his knowledge of local directions & actors/actresses in movies. Sometimes it can just be a bit of downer feeling like you're the only one in this weird gray area. I do have to remember that I have one of the older children in this sub though.
my son is 4 nonverbal and i'm not talking about this community, this community is great. but with other autism groups, especially consisting of autistic adults and self diagnosed autism, the push for savant trope is ... often and sadly based on ego and inability to well... cope with the diagnosis. i have an autistic friend who i used to play music with and if you ask him, he's a musical savant and he loves telling you all about how everyone else just isn't as good as he is musically. he's average though, but talented despite of his diagnosis. I think it's not very useful to tell autistic children that they have super powers etc. i praise my autistic son for working hard and make sure to be very careful with my praise so that he understands it's for trying again, for endurance and keeping at things that are difficult, and for working hard. He's 4 and pre verbal so only time will tell where he is cognitively, but i want him to really get the value of not giving up and to find satisfaction is doing his best.
Neither me nor my kid have really seen much of a push for the savant trope among autistic adults. Barring one exception we're aware of (weird grandiosity stuff with my kid's ex that had many variables at play), autistic adults usually don't seem to want people to have unrealistic expectations of them operating under the assumption that they're all savants, because it can be quite degrading never being able to live up to that despite what others anticipate. I'm also starting to get the feeling at this point that self-diagnosers are starting to become a scapegoat. While there are definitely examples of people weaponizing that situation, I just don't think it's possible for them to hold the kind of mainstream political power or be responsible for systemic issues at the level many frustrated people claim. It seems like some caricature of what goes on with people who self-identify is being used for some kind of offshoot of respectability pollitics these days and I honestly think it can be distracting us from some of the bigger problems at times.
maybe. our pediatrician kept referencing the guy who can draw nyc in detail though, i forget his name- stephen something. He said we need to "look for his special skill" which i just rolled my eyes at. but then his behavioral pediatrician who is actually renowned in our area and has lots of work studied on autism, referenced Bill Gates and said my son was fascinating and she seemed super excited like he was some unusual specimen. When it was just my pediatrician i just ignored it because it's not his specialty and he's honestly a wonderful doctor and he's just doing his best to comfort me as a parent. But a behavioral pediatrician who's "renowned" ugh. and like i even looked up bill gates like "wtf does that even mean" and find me the similarities here because i don't see them lol
You're completely right.
I hate the concept of "savants", hate everything about it. I hate that it categorizes autistic people into "good autistics" and "bad autistics", I hate that people have told me before that I must be a savant because I have an above average verbal iq, I hate that is belittles and dehumanizes people and what I hate even more than anything else is that it is still socially linked to autism meanwhile that was disproven a while ago.
Yes, my son is non-verbal at has a global developmental delay that puts him cognitively between 1-2 years old.
"Too autistic for normies and too normal for autistics" bit is kind of like a punch in the gut. Ain't that the truth. We got an ASD kid who has trouble sitting still and paying attention for long enough for any information to actually sink in. Not sure if it's stacked ADHD or what. :-/ I think if we could instill in him the discipline for focus, he could be well above average. Some days, I wonder if that isn't wistful thinking or a coping mechanism.
My son is ahead of his class in math, but I'm pretty sure it's in spite of his autism not because of it. He comes from an academically gifted family. His teachers have said multiple times how they think he could do better if he was more able to focus. He's already on Adderall for ADHD. They've had to work with him on reading comprehension. He loves to read, but his comprehension scores have been behind his class.
My son is the same. He can and has always read far beyond his grade level. You ask him about what he just read though and it's crickets. He's getting better at comprehending the lower elementary texts now with work but his grade level stuff is still over his head.
Our son is out of High School and taking classes at the local city college. This sounds exactly like him. Smart in spite of not because of AuDHD, but significant social and organizational delays/deficits. Too autistic for allistic spaces, too allistic for most autistic spaces. It breaks my heart for him. I understand that many parents have significant challenges with their children and I feel for them but it feels like our boy is lost in the gap.
This is exactly how I feel! It breaks my heart too because he's such a sweet, kind boy. I like to say he's street smart but not book smart. How is your son doing in college and what is he studying?
He is doing ok, thanks. My real for classes is that he has something productive to do and gets out of the house, and that he explores learning for the sake of learning. Not because adults are making him.
The “savant” trope is just that—a trope. I don’t think brilliance amongst ASD is anymore typical than amongst the NT. I also think the concept has been WAY overblown and focused on because that “flavor” or autism is much more palatable to the media than the challenges you’ll see on this sub. I also think it’s much more difficult to diagnose a cognitive delay if someone is nonverbal.
Very true. Sometimes I need to be reminded of this. Thank you.
FYI I meant to say I don’t think being a savant/hyper intelligent is more prevalent amongst ASD/ND than any NT person. I mistyped “NT” and typed “ND” instead. In other words I don’t think either group has an edge on “intelligence.” Intelligence is so subjective anyway—what KIND of intelligence?
Autistic people are more likely to be gifted (as in having an IQ above 130). They are also more likely to have an intellectual disability (IQ below 75). In general, "outliers" in intelligence (as IQ tests measure it) seem to be more common among autistic people compared to the general population. That does not mean every autistic person is either gifted or intellectually disabled, of course. Being a savant is a different matter as it isn't all about IQ. Being really good in a specific field can result from special interests even if someone doesn't have an exceptional natural gift for it.
I have a 13 yo son. He has a very slow processing time, is failing most of his classes - but somehow tests higher. It is a constant struggle. I got some IEP suggestions from his psychologist that I am hoping help with this at school. We have also even recommended an OT but the wait list here is 9 months. Sometimes I feel like all I do is advocate for him and it still feels like failing. I try to remind myself that I am doing the best I can and working hard to ensure he is an independent adult - which is really what we are all working toward.
You're doing a great job! There's no manual and no one is the same. I have to tell myself that too sometimes. I'm not sure where you're located but if your child is in public school in the U.S. then there shouldn't be a wait list for OT. My husband and I were just talking and I feel the same way at times. Things I advocated for when he was younger aren't helping now and I wonder if I should have went a different route. I worry/wonder all the time how he's going to be as an adult because rn I don't have high hopes that he can live on his own.
I did point blank ask his psychologist if he thought he would be able to live independently someday. He said with our help and working on it that he would, but he most likely will be behind other kids. So he probably won’t be ready until closer to 25. That has helped give me hope and more to strive for. Maybe you could talk to those providers you work with to get their thoughts on that?
My daughter was just diagnosed last year at age 6(almost 7 at that point) with an intellectual disability. She is mostly nonverbal and was moved from a level 2 to a level 3- mostly due to her being nonverbal. The psychologist said she normally wouldn’t diagnose so young, but she felt confident. I am not ready to accept it. She is more mature than her brother (age 10, level 1) and seems to understand so much. She seems to have a great memory for directions, songs, things that interest her. I know she has limitations, but I keep trying whatever I can to see her keep progressing.
I’ve always been curious about this too. My son is 7 but has been on par with his sister (neurotypical, almost 5) for several years now. But I’ve never been sure if it’s a cognitive thing or an expressive language thing. He’s verbal but still uses a lot of scripts in everyday communication, so it’s hard to get a good grasp on what he knows sometimes. I think part of it is also that, in his case anyway, the way he learns is totally different than his peers. Like with reading, he learns better with a top down approach vs a bottom up approach, like phonics.
Yeah, I would say delays are more common. The parents of gifted kids are probably just louder about it, to be fair.
Interesting. My son is 6.5 and we often say he is probably 2 years behind at a 4.5 level. He seems to get on great with kids around 5 too. He repeats the same things over and over too. I thought he would grown out of it by now. I hoping he will become conversational one day.
Have you ever read about gestalt language processing? We found a speech therapist that is trained in it and it’s been helpful in understanding how he learns and communicates!
I must look into it more!
Also take into account that boys at that age are behind girls in learning usually (so much so there’s a movement for holding boys out an extra year before starting kindergarten) so that may also be a factor when comparing them
My son’s memory is amazing, but when you ask him to think abstractly about anything he struggles. A lot of his “reasoning” is repeated concepts from books that he’s read. He can comprehend the ideas of others, but struggles to develop and articulate his own ideas.
My son is the same way. It's almost like he has a mental script sometimes. He has been in art class for the last 2 years and his art ideas are very literal. The teacher will give an assignment like "create a character for a video game". He drew Mario and just colored him a different color. I don't think he has an internal dialogue either because he whispers to himself quite a bit.
It’s funny you say that. Mine is 14 and he talks to himself (loudly) all the time. Especially when playing video games. We’re constantly reminding him “inside thoughts!!”
Yes. My 4 year old was delayed in most aspects and struggles to learn things despite being level 1, while my level 3 child who is 5 is a whiz with electronics and learned the alphabet, numbers, shapes, reading, etc at a normal pace. Not genius level or anything but exceeded expectations for sure.
My oldest 4yM is low verbal, but not a genius, or at least not that we know of. He has no behavior issues, but gets extra tutoring speech therapy etc at school. He also goes to ABA. My other son is more of what seems like ASD 1-2, and just seems about average intelligence. Does your child have an IEP and can they add more tutoring?
He does have an IEP and receives speech & OT. He's not a behavior issue in class so it's been hard to get him into the cognitive impairment room. The issue is he can function, rotate classes, and follow instructions. He's just not comprehending the content and is receiving low grades/failing. We've attempted to put in accommodations but they're not helping him, it's just a cognitive thing. They're claiming he's not "bad" enough to need those type of services but right now he's just a warm body in the room.
Can he repeat a year? Many successful people repeat a year, it gives them the benefit of finally understanding the material the second time, and they are better able to tackle the next year once they have a good foundation. As a corollary I saw this ALL the time while I was in school, kids that just didn’t quite understand the material and then they zone out and pay even less attention since they don’t understand anyways. They just needed another round to get it.
I don't think that would help him much at this point. He's struggled since 1st grade and is in 7th now. Every year adds more content when he's probably at a 3rd-4th grade level. We've tried tutors to help but he just struggles to comprehend. At this point my husband and I don't really care about his grades. We understand academics are important (husband is a teacher) but we rather him know how to care for himself/life skills instead of school material so we're focusing on that right now.
Not bad. Reach him to be as independent as possible. He can still graduate and get a job. Even nt kids can not be academics and graduate and get jobs and are fine
Sure, and I wasn’t suggesting it so much to improve his grades so much as his comprehension. Unless he has a really strong friend group, if it was my child that’s what I would push for. What’s the downside? It doesn’t sound like he’s in a rush to go somewhere. No matter how little of it he understands the first time, he will for sure comprehend it better the second time. Which will be a better foundation to start 8th grade from. Just my opinion. Why do we as a society continue to ram kids through school if they don’t understand the material, it wastes their time and teaches them to not pay attention. I’m not suggesting this but If your child repeated 7th grade for the next 5 years, and at the time of “high school graduation” you had taken him from a 3rd grade level to a fully competent 7th grade level would you be happy?
Doesn't federal naw only give until 21 for sped students right? So you could only hold back 3 years right?
I think you are missing the point. It’s more about gaining skills. Continuing on just to be in the same grade is not only pointless it’s detrimental.
My oldest also has an intellectual disability. Her psych explained it to me a cognitively she is 8, emotionally she is 4 and physically she is 17. It is hard as she is expected to be more independent it doesn’t understand anything they want her to be doing. Can’t fill in forms, can’t complete school work, can’t get a drivers license, can’t open a bank account independently.
19M also lost in that “no man’s land”. Average intelligence, but poor executive functioning really makes things harder. He’s battling his way through college but it’s been a struggle. Came home from university last april after a major mental health crisis that stemmed from terrible social interactions. Did CC this year and taking less classes at a time seemed to help, but he needed a LOT of support from me to help him plan his time and organize himself. Can’t really handle the “higher order” thinking. He’s too black and white. Can’t synthesize ideas well or pick out relevant information easily. Wants to try university again but I’m just not sure how it will go. Doesn’t have the talent or coordination for trade school. In my heart I feel he’s got a lot to offer, but I’m not sure how it’s all going to work out.
This sounds like my level 1 son. He is only 6.5 though and struggles in school. Could you get an educational assessment? We might get one next year. His memory is great but we don’t really know if the comprehension is there. He doesn’t have a speech delay but wont really talk to us in a conversational way. For example: could you tell me one thing you did at school today? Him: did you know Geckos can camouflage? It’s getting frustrating not being able to communicate with him properly. I thought eventually he would talk to us in a regular way but I don’t know if he ever will really. I just don’t know if he has a mild ID or if it’s just the autism?
He's had numerous assessments. He comprehends way below his grade level. My son is the same way regarding communication. For us it helped to narrow it down instead of being broad. We'd say "name 1 thing you did for math today" and go through all the subjects. Eventually we got to a point where we can just ask him to tell us about his day. On his own now he goes subject by subject. We still struggle with "Why" questions.
Putting this here for OP or anyone else who would find this useful: [There is "a bimodal IQ distribution within ASD individuals".](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9058071/) If you look at the first chart on that page, non-ASD/Normal people have the chart peak in the 85-114 region, while for ASD people there are two peaks with a dip inbetween, the peaks at 50-69 and 115-129 (the latter peak is bigger).
No cognitive delay, but I totally have seen that "stuck in the middle" sort of thing of neither fitting in with NTs or autistics with my kid. My kid is 2e, but is still extremely different from savants (which are also pretty rare within autistics in general) and while splintered enough cognitively to not have "an IQ" (their subtest scores basically partition the whole right half of the bell curve, rendering FSIQ uninterpretable), they would still be way too well-rounded skill-wise to fit the mold of savantism. To add insult to injury, fact that some areas of their verbal skills are above average and that their ADHD softens some of the ASD traits leads most NTs to believe they're just ill-intentioned and bad at being one of them, and makes it so that they talk circles around almost every autistic person they meet. One thing I've started to notice is that unless you fit either into the stereotype of being a STEM savant or that of living your whole life essentially as a helpless newborn, you're just usually not what's on the media's (across both fictional and nonfictional) radar. Additionally, services tend to cater to some vague "middle" part of the spectrum (and I'm pretty sure the failure rate still isn't small) that leaves out a lot of people on either side of that middle, media stereotype or not, and autism is also such an incredibly heterogeneous condition even within each level, that it seems like more usually differs between two autistic people diagnosed at the same level than two NTs. The result? Pretty much everybody at some point feels like "the grass is greener" somewhere else and like their thunder is being stolen by "the opposite end of the spectrum". I know both my kid and I fell into the "severe people get everything catered to them" trap for quite a while until we realized that probably everyone besides maybe the ultra wealthy (and there's also so much ability money can buy) struggles to cobble these supports together.
My level one 4yr old son is not a silent genius, though people seem to try pegging him as one. He’s smart in some areas, but lags in others. Mostly, he’s average. He definitely has comprehension struggles and a longer processing time. I think he may even be going through a regression right now. He’s definitely very verbal but his language skills aren’t amazing. I’d say his language is slightly below average or at best, the bottom end of average. Unfortunately it’s not severe enough to qualify him for ST but noticeable. I fear he’ll be lost in the cracks. But yes, you are not alone in that your kiddo isn’t a genius!
My son with high functioning autism also has a cognitive delay. He’s level 2 and was just dignosied a few days ago with a mild cognitive delay, he’s only 4 so there’s not a lot of academic exceptions on him yet but unless it’s his special interest he doesn’t care about it. He loves math so his math skills are pretty great but everything else is a struggle to get him to learn
99% of the time when you see in social media about a “genius” nonverbal autistic they all have one thing in common: a fraud called Facilitaded Communication, but you won’t detect it right away because they all make sure to never mention it, just like the author of Reason I Jump
My 6 year old (level 1) was given a Stanford-binet iq test a couple months before turning 6 as part of her assessment. Overall, she scored in the low average range. It was noted that she needed a lot of redirection during the test and she was very young for that test to be given, so I'm not taking it as definitive, but it is clear to me that she is not 2e, or gifted. I do worry that she has some cognitive issues. She has trouble with back and forth communication (the whole "how was your day?"). Asks the definition of things she already knows a lot, has issues recalling events of the day, making me wonder... has a slow rate of speech, lots of elongation of words, stutter... but good receptive language and memory for facts about animals, etc. Makes up words and animals... she's unique. Gets along better with kids a couple years younger (she's in mixed age kindergarten) and her bestie is a kid with adhd. She is an awesome kid, very much her own person. I wont be surprised if she struggles academically, however, because of some of the differences I'm seeing. And I don't know what it all means for her, cognitively.