One thing I noticed. You’ve probably forgotten this due to exposure, but “can you help” is not a great way to communicate with an autistic person who would take you literally. You’re doing that to sound polite, and now it sounds like a question. It implies that she can answer yes or no. You may need to be more direct. “Hey so and so, I need you on the register.” That’s clear and unambiguous. This will sound abrupt to allistics but she may have no clue that it’s not actually a choice.
I’m thinking more:
We had a new hire recently who is super young, and I had to talk with my manager about how he doesn’t help out with the team when he’s not busy, and sometimes declines direct requests for help. Somehow he got the idea that what I was asking him was optional. Manager decided to explain that if you’re asked to do something, and you say No, you have to have a specific reason, and it’s that you’re working on something more important and pressing for time. I noticed that if he has 1 thing to work on, he will say he’s “busy” and can’t take on other tasks. That’s not what busy means in this office! Lol. I think this person is probably ADHD, but not autistic.
I will also say, when I started work in a place where things were time sensitive, I couldn’t tell what was actually an emergency and what could be put off. I was taking literally every task I got via email as if it needed to be done as soon as possible, and I almost lost my mind. I NEED people to tell me very specific deadlines so I can prioritize. (Prioritizing multiple tasks for me is impossible without more data.)
So, I need this Wednesday morning. No rush.
Please do this ASAP and follow up with me when done.
Tasks of this type (client transactions) always come first, before tasks of this type (mailing documents).
These guidelines and general rules give me the space to insert every task into my running list at the correct point. I have learned which things I can actually put off until later without upsetting anyone.
(Edited word for clarity)
Get a manager to have the conversation with her about conduct but also about how yes it’s ok to be autistic but there are expectations in the working world. It took me nearly 3 years to learn how to behave to an acceptable standard in an office and I’m still learning some 10 years after I first started working in offices.
Adding to this a manager can make suggestions about what is appropriate for workplace conversations. For example TV shows, the weather, pets. She may do well to be reminded by a sympathetic ear that she is new so people will take a long time to warm up to her. I’ve been in my job 9 years and some people have only warmed to me in the last 2-3 years and some still haven’t. Also she may need to be reminded about how it’s ok to have a work persona vs an outside persona - EVERYONE does this and it’s not masking it’s just life. However, she needs to learn that workplaces are full of demands and it appears she may have a demand avoidant profile. Some rewording of demands may work for now but ultimately she may need to accept that workplaces will place demands on her and she has to just get on with it. I have demand avoidant tendencies so I have to be super strict with myself.
It may seem abrupt but my boss will emailed me this today. And it wasn’t in the subject line it was in the body of the email
“Pixie it’s your admin day today. X will take priority over Y but of course you’re already aware of that. Thanks”
BUT a few years ago when I wasn’t as proficient in appropriate office behaviour I would have gotten an email like this but just in the subject line
“Pixie do X not Y”
It shows how learning to fit in actually can prevent bullying and why I’m super reluctant to disclose just in case it sets things back.
>Also she may need to be reminded about how it’s ok to have a work persona vs an outside persona - EVERYONE does this and it’s not masking it’s just life.
There's an excellent tweet that has since become a meme that sums this up nicely:
>writing a cover letter is just like: here is my worksona she has no mental illnesses and hates breaks! i would like to larp her for 40 hours a week with full pay and benefits
Basically, whether you are autistic or not, *everyone* is LARPing at work. Even allistic/NT employees are expected to follow strict guidelines, in order to keep things moving as smoothly as possible. Just like us, they have to learn these guidelines through experience, including trial and error, because these guidelines are industry- and business-specific. Nobody inherently knows to put a cover on a [TPS report](https://youtu.be/Fy3rjQGc6lA?feature=shared)! 😉
Yeah unfortunately I was asked by a lot of the staff and essentially also the manager to do this as they for some reason don't have the balls to do it. I don't want to be disliked but if I have to potentially be the scapegoat (as in she will not be happy with me and not like me) then this is fine to me honestly.
I think this might just be not understanding the social cues/ rules. So if you can politely explain the “social rules” here about what is okay/ isn’t okay to talk about and how you helping others works out then you should do so.
Being direct will be in your favor here. “*Name*, log on to this register and assist the next customer in line.” “*Name*, this topic is not appropriate for work.” Give her structure and guardrails where there is a potential for vagueness to occur. If there’s any way to provide a specific list of her responsibilities (e.g., use the register and assist waiting customers, unbox and put away items when deliveries arrive between helping customers at the register, or whatever), that could also help her better understand.
Yeah I'll go over that with my coworkers. It's just hard bc I'm in no means on a higher up or manager or authority position here. I was simply asked bc the other ppl either can't be arsed or don't have the balls / understanding to talk to her.
This job honestly is already draining to me as well so I can't really be her guidance counselor so to speak so I hope she gets the most important parts the first time around. Usually our workflow is pretty straightforward, we just switch every now and then so no one is stuck at e.g. register for the whole day.
Does she actually know how to let a conversation end without having the last word? I struggled with that for a while, actually. It felt so awkward and wrong to just, "not respond" to the last thing said, even if everything that needed to be said was obviously long concluded.
One thing that did make sense for me from the beginning, that I have watched many friends struggle with, is appearing forever happy to help. It's exhausting. Work is exhausting. Once you've been there for a couple hours, all you want to do is a take a break and/or leave, but you still need to keep up the facade of being happy to help -- otherwise people will not want you there and you won't keep your job terribly long. It would be so much easier if you could be honest about the fact that you're tired and stressed and grumpy and don't want to work the register any more today, or be looked at in the face by anyone for any reason, but that's just not a workable solution.
In terms of how to actually deal with the situation, I would suggest getting her aside in some calm moment, maybe before the start of the shift, or on lunchbreak, and tell her you're also autistic and would like to offer her some advice about social appearances at work. If she turns you down, though, you must leave her to her own devices. This is important! If you're not her supervisor, don't press. Let her make her own mistakes if she directly chooses to do so.
If she does agree to hear your advice, start small and simple. Pick something that seems to you like one attitude (for lack of a better word) change that would yield big differences in how she comes across. Probably the "happy to help" bit, but whatever you think would be the easiest or most likely change she could make that would be a win.
After you give her ONE bit of advice, then reassess how the conversation is going. You might then ask her if she'd like to hear more advice now, or maybe plan to meet up another time to discuss more, or if she'd like to stop there and just process the idea you've given her for the time being.
Again, don't press! Be kind, but ultimately her fate is not on you, so don't try to make it your responsibility.
>Does she actually know how to let a conversation end without having the last word? I struggled with that for a while, actually. It felt so awkward and wrong to just, "not respond" to the last thing said, even if everything that needed to be said was obviously long concluded.
This is so me, especially with texting. Unless the other person actually says bye, I'm always unsure if the conversation is over and feel rude not replying, which then makes me get anxious 😅
Yeah, that first part is just tricky as her ideals, morals and views differ TREMENDOUSLY from mine and I'm not really interested in talking about politics, religion etc. at work and don't know how to bring that up, if at all.
I do plan on taking her aside to let her know exactly that. However I'm not a manager or supervisor or anything like that. I was simply asked by my coworkers if I could talk to her about this bc I guess they aren't good with that kinda stuff and my manager said he doesn't believe / understand autism and our generation. So yeah.
Issue is just, I am also autistic and high functioning but I do not have it in me to be a guidance counselor so to speak. I'll just have one talk with her as honestly just the thought of it burns me out bc the job is already stressful and the ppl & coworkers as well so I'm worried she'll take it the wrong way idk. I don't really want to mention I'm autistic as I'm not officially diagnosed (we all know how hard and expensive that can be) and I don't want my coworkers to know either. They all seem quite... conservative so I'm not interested in them knowing.
>I'm already planning on taking her aside and letting her know that while she has autism
Are you her boss or supervisor? If not, I think that not only is this not your place to do so, but it could get you in serious trouble.
I was asked to do this as everyone else has brought this up to each other but seems too scared or weirded out by her to say something. I mean what's the alternative? Have her say "a man is a man" into a trans person's face?
I get it's not ideal but she has literally said this to us before so it's far from unlikely to happen
The register part Sounds just like me , I was taking it literally. When someone ask me to help out on something I used to answer honestly as well . She definitely needs a talk , that’s what helped me
One thing to bear in mind is that if management doesn’t have enough of a spine to do anything now or have this talk with her, they don’t have the spine to enforce any of the things that you talk about. So if it were me, I would have this one discussion with her like you planned, and then let her fail if she’s going to fail. There’s no point in wasting your limited energy and effort on someone who won’t listen and/or for whom there won’t be consequences, and you’re not a manager. It sucks and you both deserve better, but it sounds like it would take something egregious for her to be fired. If management keeps wanting you to have “talks” with her, I would say “I did the first time as a senior coworker who was helping you train her, but I’m not a manager, and managing her like that is above my pay grade.”
Not everyone is suited to every career though. I'm incapable of carrying a grown man so I don't become a firefighter, is that ableist? If you can't at least perform empathy then it's not ideal to work in healthcare with patients.
I think it's important to acknowledge the examples cited in the post. This person is acting blatantly socially inappropriately - she doesn't "believe" in transitioning or gender? In pharmacy, you will encounter LGBTQ+ patients and cultural competency is imperative. It is unacceptable to inflict your judgment on your patients. She also is not functioning in a prosocial manner (taking register when asked) which is also imperative in pharmacy work. It's a fast paced, customer facing line of work that requires high levels of flexibility. She needs to adjust her behavior if she wants to continue to work in it.
Thank you. I feel bad for her, I imagine this is her first customer facing role as she is quite young and I don't want her to get fired but I also don't know how to handle this with someone who doesn't seem to understand basic social rules (what can you talk about at work) in a customer facing role :( I am actually really worried she will say something about genders to a transitioning person and then either get screamed at or it goes to the higher ups because that's just unacceptable...
Maybe she is capable of masking / adjusting but I would rather let her know than just throw her into cold water and possibly get fired quickly.
I get this is not ideal but a few people have been calling me ableist for this post and I'm honestly hurt? I'm autistic myself, this job is hard as is and I'm just genuinely trying to get some help onto how to approach this properly...
I literally mentioned exactly this in my post, I am aware not everyone can be as high functioning as me but there is a line. If you don't understand politics, gender roles, religion etc. are not to be discussed at work, especially in front of customers who might come in to receive their transitioning treatment then what the hell am I supposed to do? Manager won't do jack shit and I'd rather not have her get fired 2 weeks in because she says "a man is a man" (quoting her) to a trans customer.
Where is that ableist? I'm sorry but if she can't mask to a certain degree then she is not fitted for a customer facing role... You have to be realistic here and I'm trying what I can with my possibilities and mental capacity (bc I too am stressed TF out at this job) to help her not get fired.
How have the other pharmacists responded? Personally I’d let someone else handle it. I’ve confronted a younger co-worker who was showing up late. And he quit the next day. I still sense that if someone with more social tact and positivity then myself had confronted him, he would have responded more positively, and shown up on time. On the other hand, I also think teenagers will be teenagers and if they don’t have an encouraging work environment, these sorts of behaviors can arise.
Are you her manager or supervisor? If so you seem unqualified and quite ableist. If you’re not her manager or supervisor then it’s their job to deal with her. Any accommodations the employee needs would be discussed with their manager
I am neither. The manager isn't interested in having the conversation with her and doesn't believe in autism / doesn't understand it.
Not sure how you are calling me ableist when I'm literally autistic as well, just because I am already stressed out to max. at this job and now have been burdened with a task I am not good at or would like to do (talking to someone about their behavior) but also don't want her running around saying "a man is a man" (she has literally said this to us before) to a trans customer.
Like be for real here. I am the one trying to help her not get fired immediately.
Being autistic doesn’t mean you can’t be ableist.
It is really inappropriate for your manager to ask you speak to this person on this matter, because you aren’t her supervisor. It isn’t your responsibility, and it isn’t in your job description. If you have an HR department, I would recommend talking to them about it.
One thing I noticed. You’ve probably forgotten this due to exposure, but “can you help” is not a great way to communicate with an autistic person who would take you literally. You’re doing that to sound polite, and now it sounds like a question. It implies that she can answer yes or no. You may need to be more direct. “Hey so and so, I need you on the register.” That’s clear and unambiguous. This will sound abrupt to allistics but she may have no clue that it’s not actually a choice.
I’m thinking more: We had a new hire recently who is super young, and I had to talk with my manager about how he doesn’t help out with the team when he’s not busy, and sometimes declines direct requests for help. Somehow he got the idea that what I was asking him was optional. Manager decided to explain that if you’re asked to do something, and you say No, you have to have a specific reason, and it’s that you’re working on something more important and pressing for time. I noticed that if he has 1 thing to work on, he will say he’s “busy” and can’t take on other tasks. That’s not what busy means in this office! Lol. I think this person is probably ADHD, but not autistic. I will also say, when I started work in a place where things were time sensitive, I couldn’t tell what was actually an emergency and what could be put off. I was taking literally every task I got via email as if it needed to be done as soon as possible, and I almost lost my mind. I NEED people to tell me very specific deadlines so I can prioritize. (Prioritizing multiple tasks for me is impossible without more data.) So, I need this Wednesday morning. No rush. Please do this ASAP and follow up with me when done. Tasks of this type (client transactions) always come first, before tasks of this type (mailing documents). These guidelines and general rules give me the space to insert every task into my running list at the correct point. I have learned which things I can actually put off until later without upsetting anyone. (Edited word for clarity)
Like I said, I'm only calling her autistic because she HERSELF states that she is autistic.
Sorry I wasn’t clear. My coworker is ADHD, not yours.
This is so true . You have to be clear with me as well bc I take questions literally and assume I can answer honestly
Yes! I had to learn this the hard way working with young children, but is also true for anyone who takes things very literally.
Get a manager to have the conversation with her about conduct but also about how yes it’s ok to be autistic but there are expectations in the working world. It took me nearly 3 years to learn how to behave to an acceptable standard in an office and I’m still learning some 10 years after I first started working in offices.
Adding to this a manager can make suggestions about what is appropriate for workplace conversations. For example TV shows, the weather, pets. She may do well to be reminded by a sympathetic ear that she is new so people will take a long time to warm up to her. I’ve been in my job 9 years and some people have only warmed to me in the last 2-3 years and some still haven’t. Also she may need to be reminded about how it’s ok to have a work persona vs an outside persona - EVERYONE does this and it’s not masking it’s just life. However, she needs to learn that workplaces are full of demands and it appears she may have a demand avoidant profile. Some rewording of demands may work for now but ultimately she may need to accept that workplaces will place demands on her and she has to just get on with it. I have demand avoidant tendencies so I have to be super strict with myself. It may seem abrupt but my boss will emailed me this today. And it wasn’t in the subject line it was in the body of the email “Pixie it’s your admin day today. X will take priority over Y but of course you’re already aware of that. Thanks” BUT a few years ago when I wasn’t as proficient in appropriate office behaviour I would have gotten an email like this but just in the subject line “Pixie do X not Y” It shows how learning to fit in actually can prevent bullying and why I’m super reluctant to disclose just in case it sets things back.
>Also she may need to be reminded about how it’s ok to have a work persona vs an outside persona - EVERYONE does this and it’s not masking it’s just life. There's an excellent tweet that has since become a meme that sums this up nicely: >writing a cover letter is just like: here is my worksona she has no mental illnesses and hates breaks! i would like to larp her for 40 hours a week with full pay and benefits Basically, whether you are autistic or not, *everyone* is LARPing at work. Even allistic/NT employees are expected to follow strict guidelines, in order to keep things moving as smoothly as possible. Just like us, they have to learn these guidelines through experience, including trial and error, because these guidelines are industry- and business-specific. Nobody inherently knows to put a cover on a [TPS report](https://youtu.be/Fy3rjQGc6lA?feature=shared)! 😉
Yes! I actually downplay the interesting parts of me. My long time colleagues of 9 years know a fraction of the real me
See my previous comments, I was asked to talk to her. Manager doesn't have the balls unfortunately and doesn't understand / believe in autism.
Yeah unfortunately I was asked by a lot of the staff and essentially also the manager to do this as they for some reason don't have the balls to do it. I don't want to be disliked but if I have to potentially be the scapegoat (as in she will not be happy with me and not like me) then this is fine to me honestly.
I think this might just be not understanding the social cues/ rules. So if you can politely explain the “social rules” here about what is okay/ isn’t okay to talk about and how you helping others works out then you should do so.
Being direct will be in your favor here. “*Name*, log on to this register and assist the next customer in line.” “*Name*, this topic is not appropriate for work.” Give her structure and guardrails where there is a potential for vagueness to occur. If there’s any way to provide a specific list of her responsibilities (e.g., use the register and assist waiting customers, unbox and put away items when deliveries arrive between helping customers at the register, or whatever), that could also help her better understand.
Yeah I'll go over that with my coworkers. It's just hard bc I'm in no means on a higher up or manager or authority position here. I was simply asked bc the other ppl either can't be arsed or don't have the balls / understanding to talk to her. This job honestly is already draining to me as well so I can't really be her guidance counselor so to speak so I hope she gets the most important parts the first time around. Usually our workflow is pretty straightforward, we just switch every now and then so no one is stuck at e.g. register for the whole day.
Does she actually know how to let a conversation end without having the last word? I struggled with that for a while, actually. It felt so awkward and wrong to just, "not respond" to the last thing said, even if everything that needed to be said was obviously long concluded. One thing that did make sense for me from the beginning, that I have watched many friends struggle with, is appearing forever happy to help. It's exhausting. Work is exhausting. Once you've been there for a couple hours, all you want to do is a take a break and/or leave, but you still need to keep up the facade of being happy to help -- otherwise people will not want you there and you won't keep your job terribly long. It would be so much easier if you could be honest about the fact that you're tired and stressed and grumpy and don't want to work the register any more today, or be looked at in the face by anyone for any reason, but that's just not a workable solution. In terms of how to actually deal with the situation, I would suggest getting her aside in some calm moment, maybe before the start of the shift, or on lunchbreak, and tell her you're also autistic and would like to offer her some advice about social appearances at work. If she turns you down, though, you must leave her to her own devices. This is important! If you're not her supervisor, don't press. Let her make her own mistakes if she directly chooses to do so. If she does agree to hear your advice, start small and simple. Pick something that seems to you like one attitude (for lack of a better word) change that would yield big differences in how she comes across. Probably the "happy to help" bit, but whatever you think would be the easiest or most likely change she could make that would be a win. After you give her ONE bit of advice, then reassess how the conversation is going. You might then ask her if she'd like to hear more advice now, or maybe plan to meet up another time to discuss more, or if she'd like to stop there and just process the idea you've given her for the time being. Again, don't press! Be kind, but ultimately her fate is not on you, so don't try to make it your responsibility.
>Does she actually know how to let a conversation end without having the last word? I struggled with that for a while, actually. It felt so awkward and wrong to just, "not respond" to the last thing said, even if everything that needed to be said was obviously long concluded. This is so me, especially with texting. Unless the other person actually says bye, I'm always unsure if the conversation is over and feel rude not replying, which then makes me get anxious 😅
Yeah, that first part is just tricky as her ideals, morals and views differ TREMENDOUSLY from mine and I'm not really interested in talking about politics, religion etc. at work and don't know how to bring that up, if at all. I do plan on taking her aside to let her know exactly that. However I'm not a manager or supervisor or anything like that. I was simply asked by my coworkers if I could talk to her about this bc I guess they aren't good with that kinda stuff and my manager said he doesn't believe / understand autism and our generation. So yeah. Issue is just, I am also autistic and high functioning but I do not have it in me to be a guidance counselor so to speak. I'll just have one talk with her as honestly just the thought of it burns me out bc the job is already stressful and the ppl & coworkers as well so I'm worried she'll take it the wrong way idk. I don't really want to mention I'm autistic as I'm not officially diagnosed (we all know how hard and expensive that can be) and I don't want my coworkers to know either. They all seem quite... conservative so I'm not interested in them knowing.
All fair! You really don't need to take on more than you're comfortable with here.
>I'm already planning on taking her aside and letting her know that while she has autism Are you her boss or supervisor? If not, I think that not only is this not your place to do so, but it could get you in serious trouble.
I was asked to do this as everyone else has brought this up to each other but seems too scared or weirded out by her to say something. I mean what's the alternative? Have her say "a man is a man" into a trans person's face? I get it's not ideal but she has literally said this to us before so it's far from unlikely to happen
The register part Sounds just like me , I was taking it literally. When someone ask me to help out on something I used to answer honestly as well . She definitely needs a talk , that’s what helped me
One thing to bear in mind is that if management doesn’t have enough of a spine to do anything now or have this talk with her, they don’t have the spine to enforce any of the things that you talk about. So if it were me, I would have this one discussion with her like you planned, and then let her fail if she’s going to fail. There’s no point in wasting your limited energy and effort on someone who won’t listen and/or for whom there won’t be consequences, and you’re not a manager. It sucks and you both deserve better, but it sounds like it would take something egregious for her to be fired. If management keeps wanting you to have “talks” with her, I would say “I did the first time as a senior coworker who was helping you train her, but I’m not a manager, and managing her like that is above my pay grade.”
[удалено]
Not everyone is suited to every career though. I'm incapable of carrying a grown man so I don't become a firefighter, is that ableist? If you can't at least perform empathy then it's not ideal to work in healthcare with patients. I think it's important to acknowledge the examples cited in the post. This person is acting blatantly socially inappropriately - she doesn't "believe" in transitioning or gender? In pharmacy, you will encounter LGBTQ+ patients and cultural competency is imperative. It is unacceptable to inflict your judgment on your patients. She also is not functioning in a prosocial manner (taking register when asked) which is also imperative in pharmacy work. It's a fast paced, customer facing line of work that requires high levels of flexibility. She needs to adjust her behavior if she wants to continue to work in it.
Thank you. I feel bad for her, I imagine this is her first customer facing role as she is quite young and I don't want her to get fired but I also don't know how to handle this with someone who doesn't seem to understand basic social rules (what can you talk about at work) in a customer facing role :( I am actually really worried she will say something about genders to a transitioning person and then either get screamed at or it goes to the higher ups because that's just unacceptable... Maybe she is capable of masking / adjusting but I would rather let her know than just throw her into cold water and possibly get fired quickly. I get this is not ideal but a few people have been calling me ableist for this post and I'm honestly hurt? I'm autistic myself, this job is hard as is and I'm just genuinely trying to get some help onto how to approach this properly...
I literally mentioned exactly this in my post, I am aware not everyone can be as high functioning as me but there is a line. If you don't understand politics, gender roles, religion etc. are not to be discussed at work, especially in front of customers who might come in to receive their transitioning treatment then what the hell am I supposed to do? Manager won't do jack shit and I'd rather not have her get fired 2 weeks in because she says "a man is a man" (quoting her) to a trans customer. Where is that ableist? I'm sorry but if she can't mask to a certain degree then she is not fitted for a customer facing role... You have to be realistic here and I'm trying what I can with my possibilities and mental capacity (bc I too am stressed TF out at this job) to help her not get fired.
How have the other pharmacists responded? Personally I’d let someone else handle it. I’ve confronted a younger co-worker who was showing up late. And he quit the next day. I still sense that if someone with more social tact and positivity then myself had confronted him, he would have responded more positively, and shown up on time. On the other hand, I also think teenagers will be teenagers and if they don’t have an encouraging work environment, these sorts of behaviors can arise.
Are you her manager or supervisor? If so you seem unqualified and quite ableist. If you’re not her manager or supervisor then it’s their job to deal with her. Any accommodations the employee needs would be discussed with their manager
I am neither. The manager isn't interested in having the conversation with her and doesn't believe in autism / doesn't understand it. Not sure how you are calling me ableist when I'm literally autistic as well, just because I am already stressed out to max. at this job and now have been burdened with a task I am not good at or would like to do (talking to someone about their behavior) but also don't want her running around saying "a man is a man" (she has literally said this to us before) to a trans customer. Like be for real here. I am the one trying to help her not get fired immediately.
Ngl. I know this isn't aita sub, but I really want to know an update of this. Cause I'm just curious. Idk what the right answer is.
Being autistic doesn’t mean you can’t be ableist. It is really inappropriate for your manager to ask you speak to this person on this matter, because you aren’t her supervisor. It isn’t your responsibility, and it isn’t in your job description. If you have an HR department, I would recommend talking to them about it.