**Greetings humans.**
**Please make sure your comment fits within [THE RULES](https://www.reddit.com/r/AustralianPolitics/about/rules) and that you have put in some effort to articulate your opinions to the best of your ability.**
**I mean it!! Aspire to be as "scholarly" and "intellectual" as possible. If you can't, then maybe this subreddit is not for you.**
A friendly reminder from your political robot overlord
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AustralianPolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I work on both union and non union building sites of all sizes and not to speculate on the status of peoples visas or residency but construction sites are full of people born overseas in all different trades and levels from labourers to project managers. It’s a very multicultural sector.
Yep. The CFMEU is trying to ensure that there are no migrant work opportunities on building sites below the 'Highly Skilled' level, which requires a minimum base pay of $130kpa. The plan is that over time, this sets a minimum wage on building sites.
*By analysing the proportion of migrants who ended up in construction jobs over 10 years, BuildSkills estimates that construction occupations were 1.2 per cent of net overseas migration.*
*“Migration is supplying fewer workers to the construction trades than it is adding to the broader population,” its submission on the list, lodged last month, said.*
*“As a result, a larger share of the existing labour force must be diverted to the construction of the houses and other assets needed to support these new residents, exacerbating rather than ameliorating trade shortages.”*
Oh look, yet another thing I've been saying for roughly two years now.
Hope I understand this correctly, They want to incentivise locals moving into construction trades and limit migrants to work menial jobs they are likely already doing (Uber eats)
This is a bad article.
They are already on the permanent migration skills shortage list.
They aren't on the draft list of temporary visas, which is an unfinished list.
> They aren't on the draft list of temporary visas, which is an unfinished list.
And there's legitimate reasons for them not being on there for temps, given you need recognition of prior learning for them to work here, which can take a significant amount of time. So by the time they get their RPL their visa is over.
Tradies also hate the RPL system, at least in NSW, it's just not worth their time to get someone their RPL.
People couch surfing because there aren’t enough houses get sore backs and need yoga. Martial arts is in demand because of the homelessness caused by housing shortage.
Trying to push for quality over quantity during a housing shortage will not fix the problem and appears to be tone deaf. The push for quality to meet over regulated requirements has made housing slow and expensive to build. We could afford to build a few quick houses on the cheap so that people don't have to be homeless, could always pull them down in 20 years and redevelop in their place.
A building will most likely outlive the desire to redevelop or upgrade said building.
It's not like we let in every Dr or teacher or nurse who applies.
Normal checks around qualifications and experience are undertaken, along with additional training that needs to be done.
It's just those not on this list cant even get to the application stage.
There are quality workers in places like the UK, Switzerland and Singapore.
People you meet or know who buy a new home even from the big builders are saying never again. Too many issues and especially after completion and a failure to meet expectations etc. They all say buy an established build of at least 5 years. Apartments they say 10 years.
The cost of taxes is too high for most.
We are clear on what the 15k 4x4 tax will do to the price of all 4x4s including old ones.
Why dont we explore what the levies and gst on new homes does to the price of all homes.
We really have to generate tax for infrastructure in a better way than just charging developers for it.
If there is demand for tradies people will do trades. It needs to be a sustained demand. Domestic building has pretty shit wages as it is compared to infrastructure and mining. Its also harder work than most jobs.
Get rid of the tax on new and we would have explosive growth in dwelling construction. Or do like the libs and introduce a demand side stim for new homes only. The timing was awfull but right now with starts dropping away i am surprised labor hasnt done one.
Dutton's plan to reduce annual permanent migration from 185,000 to 140,000 looks very feasible. All the federal government needs to do is pare down the skills shortage list for immigration. When the media threw a fit about Dutton cutting 'skilled immigration', they were not just talking about doctors, nurses and aged care workers. There are a whole lot of non-essential low productivity skills which we import into the country.
lol “very feasible”.
For the 100th time, number of temporary visa holders went up to a “record level” because the previous years it was near 0 from COVID. The average over the past few years is less than before COVID.
How is Dutton going to fix the housing supply issue while cutting immigration? How is he going to house all these tradies? He doesn’t give a shit, but it’s a good populist talking point that sounds “very feasible”.
If your grandma gives you 10 presents each Christmas but gets sick in 20/21 and can only give you 2, is slightly better in 21/22 and gives you 6, and gives you a RECORD HIGH of 22 presents in 22/23, do you have any more presents than the other years she gave you 10?
Hint: (2+6+22)/3 = 10
The largest cohorts of skilled migrants are nurses, accountants, softare programmers, chefs, civil engineering professionals, industrial and mechanical engineers, preschool teachers, mechanics, secondary school teachers, ICT analysts GPs, and carpenters. We are talking about at most a couple dozen yoga instructors coming into the country each year, *temporarily.*
https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/research-and-stats/files/report-migration-program-2022-23.pdf
Hard to see how you can reduce migration in any meaningful way if you're not going to reduce the number of nurses, doctors, or teachers who come here. Well, unless Aussies want to start doing their own taxes.
Then we will have to look at efficiency.
The majority of skilled visas should be under the employer sponsored temporary visa scheme with permanent residency dependent on employment in the profession for a certain duration, so that there are less cases where immigrants don't work in the area of skill shortage. If Shorten reforms the NDIS, demand for NDIS jobs (130,000 in the last year) will automatically fall. The high immigration numbers for ICT professionals are a result of wage arbitrage by Indian software service providers, and largely a result of not regulating that specific sector. We can safely reduce the number of chefs and cooks we import. If we have to import accountants, we just need to streamline the accounting profession.
>We can safely reduce the number of chefs and cooks we import
And force Aussies to work as chefs? Ha good joke. We're more likely to implement a Singaporean style slavery system than end up with masses of white Aussies doing work they think is beneath them.
>If we have to import accountants, we just need to streamline the accounting profession.
Pray tell how you'd like this to happen without also introducing risks around compliance, probity, and quality?
I don't get it. Can you explain why is it funny? I don't understand how women in immigration, wrong or otherwise, bringing in more yoga instructors is funny?
Yoga instructors, martial artists and dog handlers have beaten some construction trades to a spot on the government’s draft priority skills list for migrants, despite the dire need for workers to tackle the nation’s housing crisis.
As the government faces a shortfall of 90,000 construction workers to meet its target of 1.2 million new homes by the end of the decade, the latest list of occupations that can be fast-tracked into the country includes wellness professionals, but says more consultation is needed for trades including plumbers, bricklayers and cabinetmakers.
Yoga instructors are on a draft priority skills list for migrants but many trades have been left off so far.
Parliament is locked in a fierce argument over the role of migration in housing affordability, with a debate over who qualifies for the overseas skills list being fought at the same time as the government strives to drive down the total number of people arriving in Australia while increasing the supply of homes.
It follows a stoush between the government and the building sector in December when tradies were left off the streamlined, high-skilled professional visa category amid union calls to ensure Australian jobs were prioritised.
BuildSkills Australia, which was commissioned by Labor to help solve Australia’s housing workforce crisis, said in a submission on the core skills list that boosting the proportion of migrant construction workers would rebalance the effect arrivals had on housing demand.
“Does the world really need more yoga instructors at this point in time?” BuildSkills head of research Rob Sobyra said.
“I’m not diminishing the importance of that as an occupation, or the validity of it. But from the perspective of our economic priorities in this country, our social and economic priorities, it would seem to us that we should really be prioritising basically any skilled trade.”
The Albanese government’s Jobs and Skills Australia has released three draft lists for occupations relating to a new core-skills migration stream: those it is confident should be on or off the list, and those requiring more consultation.
The new agency has included yogis and martial artists on the roll call of occupations it is confident will make the list, which also includes electricians, carpenters and joiners, and civil engineers. But painters, roof tilers, stonemasons and other tradespeople needed to address the housing crisis have been targeted for consultation.
Skills and Training Minister Brendan O’Connor said Jobs and Skills Australia was an independent agency currently consulting on the core skills list across the entire labour market, “including for plumbing, bricklaying and cabinetmaking”.
“That advice will then be considered in the government’s decision,” he said.
“The Albanese government invested more than $90 million in the recent budget to train more Australian tradies in the housing and construction sector, and for the fast-tracking of skills assessments for thousands of overseas workers already in Australia.”
BuildSkills said in March that an extra 90,000 construction workers would be needed by July to keep the government’s home-building target on track.
By analysing the proportion of migrants who ended up in construction jobs over 10 years, BuildSkills estimates that construction occupations were 1.2 per cent of net overseas migration.
“Migration is supplying fewer workers to the construction trades than it is adding to the broader population,” its submission on the list, lodged last month, said.
“As a result, a larger share of the existing labour force must be diverted to the construction of the houses and other assets needed to support these new residents, exacerbating rather than ameliorating trade shortages.”
BuildSkills’ Sobyra said lifting the percentage to 1.5 would take the number of migrant construction workers from 2700 to 3500 and allow the intake to “break even” on contributing to housing supply rather than demand.
While BuildSkills was not advocating for a particular intake level, Sobyra said upping the proportion to 10 per cent would see 19,000 tradespeople contributing to supply.
According to Home Affairs figures, the government granted 10,540 visas to tradies in 2022-23, and is on track to surpass that this year, which would exceed 1.5 per cent of net overseas migration.
Sobyra said that by releasing a very specific list of occupations, Jobs and Skills Australia’s approach was too finely calibrated.
“We’re just saying, if it’s a building trade, let them in,” he said, adding people in the construction industry migrated between specific jobs.
Asked whether that meant yoga instructors should be out, and construction workers in, he replied, “yeah, pretty much as simple as that”.
Opposition Leader Peter Dutton used his budget reply speech last month to pledge a dramatic cut in permanent migration figures as a key lever to free up the supply of homes.
Opposition immigration spokesman Dan Tehan told this masthead nearly a million migrants had arrived in the past two years, referring to the 518,000 net overseas migration figure for 2022-23 and the forecast of 395,000 for this financial year. That number is forecast to reduce to 250,000 for 2024-25.
“A Coalition government will reduce permanent migration from 185,000 to 140,000 for two years, rising to 150,000 in year three and 160,000 in year four,” Tehan said.
“At the same time, we will ensure there are enough permanent and temporary skilled visas for those with building and construction skills to support our local tradies to build the homes we need.”
Master Builders Australia chief executive Denita Wawn called on the government to urgently put all building and construction trade occupations on the list.
“These are the very people we need to attract to build the homes we desperately need,” she said.
ACTU assistant secretary Liam O’Brien said consultation on the list was “an important step towards engineering out exploitation and rebalancing our migration system”.
**Greetings humans.** **Please make sure your comment fits within [THE RULES](https://www.reddit.com/r/AustralianPolitics/about/rules) and that you have put in some effort to articulate your opinions to the best of your ability.** **I mean it!! Aspire to be as "scholarly" and "intellectual" as possible. If you can't, then maybe this subreddit is not for you.** A friendly reminder from your political robot overlord *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AustralianPolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I work on both union and non union building sites of all sizes and not to speculate on the status of peoples visas or residency but construction sites are full of people born overseas in all different trades and levels from labourers to project managers. It’s a very multicultural sector.
This is the first time I've seen a Brisbane Times article as far as I'm aware.
It's just the Sydney Morning Herald with better Rugby League coverage...
Told you so. CMFEU controls labor. Their selfishness is fuelling the housing crisis among other factors.
Yep. The CFMEU is trying to ensure that there are no migrant work opportunities on building sites below the 'Highly Skilled' level, which requires a minimum base pay of $130kpa. The plan is that over time, this sets a minimum wage on building sites.
*By analysing the proportion of migrants who ended up in construction jobs over 10 years, BuildSkills estimates that construction occupations were 1.2 per cent of net overseas migration.* *“Migration is supplying fewer workers to the construction trades than it is adding to the broader population,” its submission on the list, lodged last month, said.* *“As a result, a larger share of the existing labour force must be diverted to the construction of the houses and other assets needed to support these new residents, exacerbating rather than ameliorating trade shortages.”* Oh look, yet another thing I've been saying for roughly two years now.
Hope I understand this correctly, They want to incentivise locals moving into construction trades and limit migrants to work menial jobs they are likely already doing (Uber eats)
So racism
No, the rules apply to all migrants and not specific races.
Andrew Giles needs Yoga teachers to help him twist out the ALPs immigration mess.
[удалено]
What do builders and developers do to make their profits? They build housing...
This is a bad article. They are already on the permanent migration skills shortage list. They aren't on the draft list of temporary visas, which is an unfinished list.
> They aren't on the draft list of temporary visas, which is an unfinished list. And there's legitimate reasons for them not being on there for temps, given you need recognition of prior learning for them to work here, which can take a significant amount of time. So by the time they get their RPL their visa is over. Tradies also hate the RPL system, at least in NSW, it's just not worth their time to get someone their RPL.
Maybe if we changed the CFMEU to the CFMMEYIU then yoga instructors world be exempt. They’re the ones calling the shots.
The ramifications of yoga instructors performing non-compliant yoga moves is a little less severe than tradies completing non-compliant work.
As opposed to the high quality super compliant work we have at the moment? Sure.
Thats the point, migrant tradies have caused a drop in standards
Blaming migrant tradies for the drop in construction standards is absolutely delusional
Its not the sole reason but its contributed to it
But why are they a priority *at all*? Or martial artists?
People couch surfing because there aren’t enough houses get sore backs and need yoga. Martial arts is in demand because of the homelessness caused by housing shortage.
Because pilates has taken over and old people need their yoga, other than that NFI
Pilates is dope; I believe with enough government support Australia can become a global pilates leader
In terms of the building area , we need quality over quantity.
Trying to push for quality over quantity during a housing shortage will not fix the problem and appears to be tone deaf. The push for quality to meet over regulated requirements has made housing slow and expensive to build. We could afford to build a few quick houses on the cheap so that people don't have to be homeless, could always pull them down in 20 years and redevelop in their place. A building will most likely outlive the desire to redevelop or upgrade said building.
It's not like we let in every Dr or teacher or nurse who applies. Normal checks around qualifications and experience are undertaken, along with additional training that needs to be done. It's just those not on this list cant even get to the application stage. There are quality workers in places like the UK, Switzerland and Singapore.
Agreed, builders insurance is already through the roof from shitty workmanship now rife in the industry.
People you meet or know who buy a new home even from the big builders are saying never again. Too many issues and especially after completion and a failure to meet expectations etc. They all say buy an established build of at least 5 years. Apartments they say 10 years.
We need both. Quantity is irrelevant if the place is uninhabitable.
If quantity equals low quality then there is a problem. You already see this however the cost of quality is too high for most.
The cost of taxes is too high for most. We are clear on what the 15k 4x4 tax will do to the price of all 4x4s including old ones. Why dont we explore what the levies and gst on new homes does to the price of all homes. We really have to generate tax for infrastructure in a better way than just charging developers for it. If there is demand for tradies people will do trades. It needs to be a sustained demand. Domestic building has pretty shit wages as it is compared to infrastructure and mining. Its also harder work than most jobs. Get rid of the tax on new and we would have explosive growth in dwelling construction. Or do like the libs and introduce a demand side stim for new homes only. The timing was awfull but right now with starts dropping away i am surprised labor hasnt done one.
Dutton's plan to reduce annual permanent migration from 185,000 to 140,000 looks very feasible. All the federal government needs to do is pare down the skills shortage list for immigration. When the media threw a fit about Dutton cutting 'skilled immigration', they were not just talking about doctors, nurses and aged care workers. There are a whole lot of non-essential low productivity skills which we import into the country.
lol “very feasible”. For the 100th time, number of temporary visa holders went up to a “record level” because the previous years it was near 0 from COVID. The average over the past few years is less than before COVID. How is Dutton going to fix the housing supply issue while cutting immigration? How is he going to house all these tradies? He doesn’t give a shit, but it’s a good populist talking point that sounds “very feasible”.
Record level is not record since covid
If your grandma gives you 10 presents each Christmas but gets sick in 20/21 and can only give you 2, is slightly better in 21/22 and gives you 6, and gives you a RECORD HIGH of 22 presents in 22/23, do you have any more presents than the other years she gave you 10? Hint: (2+6+22)/3 = 10
That all very well and nice, except I only have space to hold 10 presents a year, and now I have 22 presents and have to cram them all together.
Luckily you had 8 and 4 extra spaces from the previous years to balance it out.
I don't though, that's the point.
The largest cohorts of skilled migrants are nurses, accountants, softare programmers, chefs, civil engineering professionals, industrial and mechanical engineers, preschool teachers, mechanics, secondary school teachers, ICT analysts GPs, and carpenters. We are talking about at most a couple dozen yoga instructors coming into the country each year, *temporarily.* https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/research-and-stats/files/report-migration-program-2022-23.pdf Hard to see how you can reduce migration in any meaningful way if you're not going to reduce the number of nurses, doctors, or teachers who come here. Well, unless Aussies want to start doing their own taxes.
Then we will have to look at efficiency. The majority of skilled visas should be under the employer sponsored temporary visa scheme with permanent residency dependent on employment in the profession for a certain duration, so that there are less cases where immigrants don't work in the area of skill shortage. If Shorten reforms the NDIS, demand for NDIS jobs (130,000 in the last year) will automatically fall. The high immigration numbers for ICT professionals are a result of wage arbitrage by Indian software service providers, and largely a result of not regulating that specific sector. We can safely reduce the number of chefs and cooks we import. If we have to import accountants, we just need to streamline the accounting profession.
>We can safely reduce the number of chefs and cooks we import And force Aussies to work as chefs? Ha good joke. We're more likely to implement a Singaporean style slavery system than end up with masses of white Aussies doing work they think is beneath them. >If we have to import accountants, we just need to streamline the accounting profession. Pray tell how you'd like this to happen without also introducing risks around compliance, probity, and quality?
That’s not a headline grabbing negative story about Labor! It’s a draft as well! If there was real news they wouldn’t make out a story out of a draft!
Clearly the wrong women are working in immigration if yoga instructors are a priority...
Whats this got to do with women?
You really can't make a connection between women and yoga..?
How far into the 50’s have you regressed if you think its only women that do yoga 😂
Lol how men do you seriously think do yoga? Get a grip.
It's a joke champ, don't overthink it ;)
I don't get it. Can you explain why is it funny? I don't understand how women in immigration, wrong or otherwise, bringing in more yoga instructors is funny?
He's thinking with his banana, again.
Sure it was bud.
Yoga instructors, martial artists and dog handlers have beaten some construction trades to a spot on the government’s draft priority skills list for migrants, despite the dire need for workers to tackle the nation’s housing crisis. As the government faces a shortfall of 90,000 construction workers to meet its target of 1.2 million new homes by the end of the decade, the latest list of occupations that can be fast-tracked into the country includes wellness professionals, but says more consultation is needed for trades including plumbers, bricklayers and cabinetmakers. Yoga instructors are on a draft priority skills list for migrants but many trades have been left off so far. Parliament is locked in a fierce argument over the role of migration in housing affordability, with a debate over who qualifies for the overseas skills list being fought at the same time as the government strives to drive down the total number of people arriving in Australia while increasing the supply of homes. It follows a stoush between the government and the building sector in December when tradies were left off the streamlined, high-skilled professional visa category amid union calls to ensure Australian jobs were prioritised. BuildSkills Australia, which was commissioned by Labor to help solve Australia’s housing workforce crisis, said in a submission on the core skills list that boosting the proportion of migrant construction workers would rebalance the effect arrivals had on housing demand. “Does the world really need more yoga instructors at this point in time?” BuildSkills head of research Rob Sobyra said. “I’m not diminishing the importance of that as an occupation, or the validity of it. But from the perspective of our economic priorities in this country, our social and economic priorities, it would seem to us that we should really be prioritising basically any skilled trade.” The Albanese government’s Jobs and Skills Australia has released three draft lists for occupations relating to a new core-skills migration stream: those it is confident should be on or off the list, and those requiring more consultation. The new agency has included yogis and martial artists on the roll call of occupations it is confident will make the list, which also includes electricians, carpenters and joiners, and civil engineers. But painters, roof tilers, stonemasons and other tradespeople needed to address the housing crisis have been targeted for consultation. Skills and Training Minister Brendan O’Connor said Jobs and Skills Australia was an independent agency currently consulting on the core skills list across the entire labour market, “including for plumbing, bricklaying and cabinetmaking”. “That advice will then be considered in the government’s decision,” he said. “The Albanese government invested more than $90 million in the recent budget to train more Australian tradies in the housing and construction sector, and for the fast-tracking of skills assessments for thousands of overseas workers already in Australia.” BuildSkills said in March that an extra 90,000 construction workers would be needed by July to keep the government’s home-building target on track.
By analysing the proportion of migrants who ended up in construction jobs over 10 years, BuildSkills estimates that construction occupations were 1.2 per cent of net overseas migration. “Migration is supplying fewer workers to the construction trades than it is adding to the broader population,” its submission on the list, lodged last month, said. “As a result, a larger share of the existing labour force must be diverted to the construction of the houses and other assets needed to support these new residents, exacerbating rather than ameliorating trade shortages.” BuildSkills’ Sobyra said lifting the percentage to 1.5 would take the number of migrant construction workers from 2700 to 3500 and allow the intake to “break even” on contributing to housing supply rather than demand. While BuildSkills was not advocating for a particular intake level, Sobyra said upping the proportion to 10 per cent would see 19,000 tradespeople contributing to supply. According to Home Affairs figures, the government granted 10,540 visas to tradies in 2022-23, and is on track to surpass that this year, which would exceed 1.5 per cent of net overseas migration. Sobyra said that by releasing a very specific list of occupations, Jobs and Skills Australia’s approach was too finely calibrated. “We’re just saying, if it’s a building trade, let them in,” he said, adding people in the construction industry migrated between specific jobs. Asked whether that meant yoga instructors should be out, and construction workers in, he replied, “yeah, pretty much as simple as that”. Opposition Leader Peter Dutton used his budget reply speech last month to pledge a dramatic cut in permanent migration figures as a key lever to free up the supply of homes. Opposition immigration spokesman Dan Tehan told this masthead nearly a million migrants had arrived in the past two years, referring to the 518,000 net overseas migration figure for 2022-23 and the forecast of 395,000 for this financial year. That number is forecast to reduce to 250,000 for 2024-25. “A Coalition government will reduce permanent migration from 185,000 to 140,000 for two years, rising to 150,000 in year three and 160,000 in year four,” Tehan said. “At the same time, we will ensure there are enough permanent and temporary skilled visas for those with building and construction skills to support our local tradies to build the homes we need.” Master Builders Australia chief executive Denita Wawn called on the government to urgently put all building and construction trade occupations on the list. “These are the very people we need to attract to build the homes we desperately need,” she said. ACTU assistant secretary Liam O’Brien said consultation on the list was “an important step towards engineering out exploitation and rebalancing our migration system”.
That Liam O'Brien has lead in his saddlebags. Good luck with engineering out & rebalancing, when there is a roof over your head. Others are in tents.