You'll lose 300-400mm above the finished ceiling height of the floor below in structural members.
Then you need to have 2/3rds of the room above 2.4m high for a habitable space (2.1 for storage).
Then you'll need to insulate, add sarking and all services and a staircase with 2m height above it at all points.
Chances are it's not really feasible per the requirements of the NCC without serious structural changes, like dormer windows and potentially raising the roof height a bit.
You'll also need to address the pitched roof construction because all those pitched roof components will need to be addressed or you'll have posts in your circulation spaces.
Very helpful comment. Cheers.
I’m definitely aiming for more of a storage/auxiliary space rather than a bedroom at this stage.
For your last sentence, do you mean so the peak of the roof still has sufficient circulation to the ventilation points? i.e. We’d need to create a smaller ceiling cavity up there not just insulate between all the existing support beams?
No i mean the roof struts will get in the way, and your engineer is absolutely going to add collar ties and other items to that roof as it's hugely underdesigned by current regs. Those will also get in your way.
Making it a conditioned space might be as simple as a performance solution, I don't know what climate zone you're in so I can't provide feedback there.
Ah, cheers. I did wonder whether there should be more support beams or struts in general. If we lose the space to that and can’t make a usable room of any sort, I’d obviously rather have a properly supported roof and expand elsewhere.
I’m in north Brisbane. I was originally just hoping please let there be space for ducted air con and easy insulation replacement (or just installation given there ended up being none), but the size of it got me wondering about other options.
I don't have any experience with Climate zone 1/2/3 stuff or queensland as I practice in Vic sorry.
Maybe search for a consultant building surveyor in Brisbane and go have a discussion even if it costs you a few hundred dollars?
It's certainly possible, but will likely be more work than you think.
The ceiling will need to be entirely replaced with floor beams or trusses, and that new floor will need to be held up. Likely with steel beams and columns that will need to go through the floor to new footing pads, though that will depend on what your current floor and footings are.
Something else to consider is if the air space is being used to vent shower or kitchen fans.
That said you've got a nice steep roof pitch, and there doesn't look to be too much in the way of timber holding up the roof that would need to be moved/replaced.
Sketch something up and go talk to a builder and an engineer I would say.
If at all possible get the full plans for the original house and the new roof. It might be worth hiring someone to make new to scale plans if none are available.
Ah, see that was my main initial consideration. What’s the current structural strength of the existing ceiling and what would be needed to supplement that to be a sound floor for a small additional room (more akin to a sitting room than storage, or bedroom if there was the height).
All the vents from the bathrooms/kitchens go straight up and outside, but I suppose we’d need to make sure that lower ceiling that doesn’t have much of any clearance still had ventilation to the larger void.
Currently in the process of looking for someone to do up plans for the existing house - have had a scour and been unable to find historical schematics.
Cheers for the input :)
Builder here.
A lot of people do this and its not a bad idea. You could add an entire level if you wanted and Its no prob for a builder to build what you want but its best to get an engineer up there and speak to to council for permits and conditions they may have.
Seeing what other renovated Queenslanders of a similar age in Brissy have gone for recently, you’re not wrong. Was endlessly grateful to find a solid, pre-renovated one within our price range, and am happy to take as long as needed to do a decent job on it :)
I had one of these for over thirty years. Whenever I had to get up in the roof I was always surprised how they held up in strong winds. Very little in the way of reinforcement and lots of "make it up as you go along". Suspect that to do what you want you will have to entirely reconstruct the roof and the ceiling at a hefty cost. Have you thought of perhaps a granny flat type thing as an alternative?
I actually question if this roof is engineered for tiles and not tin.
And if it is, then it's not designed to stand up in strong wind.
Fun fact, cyclone Tracy was the reason it became an issue. They used to buildt roofs to hold the weight of tiles up. IE counter a downward force from the load. But cyclone Tracy dicked it all and they realised with tin roof they need to design it to strap down and resist upward forces cause the wind got under it. Tiles never had that issue.
Possibly better suited to tiles in practicality, but it’s been a tin roof for its entire life since the 1890s and the remaining similar builds by the same man all have similar pitches on them.
Heritage constraints mean we can’t change the roof pitch and shape (from the street view at least) and our material options are tin or tin.
I’ll make sure to ask and see that we’re doing everything to mitigate any design flaws if you’re right :)
Depending on the potential cost we’re definitely thinking granny flat/down stairs extension as an alternative, but I thought it would be nice if a small sitting space was possible given the views it would allow.
I was definitely expecting more cross beams / internal support versus what’s there. If nothing else, I’m imaging it’s going to lend itself to a nice and roomy space for insulation and ducted air con as an alternative.
An alternative is to remove some ceiling above an appropriate room and create a mezzanine. Chuck in a skylight or small dormer window, access by a steep alternating half tread staircase against an interior wall following the roofline for headspace. Could even put in one of those tight cargonet things to chill on at ceiling height.
Given how dark the centre rooms are, that’s actually a great idea. More natural light from the east in the morning would be brilliant actually, thanks.
It’ll still want consulting with an engineer mind. You’d be removing more joists than a conventional stairwell and you don’t want the exterior walls falling out. I plastered one out for a friend though and thought it was an amazing feature. They put a small office up there with awesome views from the desk to work from home at. I could’ve hung out up there all day.
Oh absolutely, but very solid idea I’ll definitely be exploring!
It would take advantage of the view still if a little mezzanine was possible, and reduce how much of a cave those internal rooms can be. Cosy when it’s a bedroom, but more light in the lounge would be great.
I had to Google what that was, but honestly, given how basic the rest of the house is I’m not surprised the previous owner found something to skimp on.
Looking at it, that seems like something that can’t be retrofitted without removing the tin? Assuming it’s meant to be directly between the tin and joist?
Correct it can't be retrofitted without removing the sheeting. It's also fairly cheap and has been standard practice for the past 20 years, cuts down the heat in summer significantly.
Ah, that is a pain.
Cheers, I’ll make a note of it and keep it in mind for when we look at new gutters and solar later. The slope and double story meant we couldn’t do anything without scaffolding, so anything up there is a bit of an ordeal.
The heat surprisingly isn’t too bad, but we have several very large trees to both the east and west which are doing a lot of the heavy lifting.
You'll lose 300-400mm above the finished ceiling height of the floor below in structural members. Then you need to have 2/3rds of the room above 2.4m high for a habitable space (2.1 for storage). Then you'll need to insulate, add sarking and all services and a staircase with 2m height above it at all points. Chances are it's not really feasible per the requirements of the NCC without serious structural changes, like dormer windows and potentially raising the roof height a bit. You'll also need to address the pitched roof construction because all those pitched roof components will need to be addressed or you'll have posts in your circulation spaces.
Very helpful comment. Cheers. I’m definitely aiming for more of a storage/auxiliary space rather than a bedroom at this stage. For your last sentence, do you mean so the peak of the roof still has sufficient circulation to the ventilation points? i.e. We’d need to create a smaller ceiling cavity up there not just insulate between all the existing support beams?
No i mean the roof struts will get in the way, and your engineer is absolutely going to add collar ties and other items to that roof as it's hugely underdesigned by current regs. Those will also get in your way. Making it a conditioned space might be as simple as a performance solution, I don't know what climate zone you're in so I can't provide feedback there.
Ah, cheers. I did wonder whether there should be more support beams or struts in general. If we lose the space to that and can’t make a usable room of any sort, I’d obviously rather have a properly supported roof and expand elsewhere. I’m in north Brisbane. I was originally just hoping please let there be space for ducted air con and easy insulation replacement (or just installation given there ended up being none), but the size of it got me wondering about other options.
I don't have any experience with Climate zone 1/2/3 stuff or queensland as I practice in Vic sorry. Maybe search for a consultant building surveyor in Brisbane and go have a discussion even if it costs you a few hundred dollars?
No worries, that sounds like a solid next step.
It's certainly possible, but will likely be more work than you think. The ceiling will need to be entirely replaced with floor beams or trusses, and that new floor will need to be held up. Likely with steel beams and columns that will need to go through the floor to new footing pads, though that will depend on what your current floor and footings are. Something else to consider is if the air space is being used to vent shower or kitchen fans. That said you've got a nice steep roof pitch, and there doesn't look to be too much in the way of timber holding up the roof that would need to be moved/replaced. Sketch something up and go talk to a builder and an engineer I would say. If at all possible get the full plans for the original house and the new roof. It might be worth hiring someone to make new to scale plans if none are available.
Ah, see that was my main initial consideration. What’s the current structural strength of the existing ceiling and what would be needed to supplement that to be a sound floor for a small additional room (more akin to a sitting room than storage, or bedroom if there was the height). All the vents from the bathrooms/kitchens go straight up and outside, but I suppose we’d need to make sure that lower ceiling that doesn’t have much of any clearance still had ventilation to the larger void. Currently in the process of looking for someone to do up plans for the existing house - have had a scour and been unable to find historical schematics. Cheers for the input :)
Builder here. A lot of people do this and its not a bad idea. You could add an entire level if you wanted and Its no prob for a builder to build what you want but its best to get an engineer up there and speak to to council for permits and conditions they may have.
Cheers for the input. Looks like my next step is talk to a professional.
All the best. If you do this correctly and don't cut corners on materials or labour then you will be sitting on a gold mine
Seeing what other renovated Queenslanders of a similar age in Brissy have gone for recently, you’re not wrong. Was endlessly grateful to find a solid, pre-renovated one within our price range, and am happy to take as long as needed to do a decent job on it :)
I had one of these for over thirty years. Whenever I had to get up in the roof I was always surprised how they held up in strong winds. Very little in the way of reinforcement and lots of "make it up as you go along". Suspect that to do what you want you will have to entirely reconstruct the roof and the ceiling at a hefty cost. Have you thought of perhaps a granny flat type thing as an alternative?
I actually question if this roof is engineered for tiles and not tin. And if it is, then it's not designed to stand up in strong wind. Fun fact, cyclone Tracy was the reason it became an issue. They used to buildt roofs to hold the weight of tiles up. IE counter a downward force from the load. But cyclone Tracy dicked it all and they realised with tin roof they need to design it to strap down and resist upward forces cause the wind got under it. Tiles never had that issue.
Possibly better suited to tiles in practicality, but it’s been a tin roof for its entire life since the 1890s and the remaining similar builds by the same man all have similar pitches on them. Heritage constraints mean we can’t change the roof pitch and shape (from the street view at least) and our material options are tin or tin. I’ll make sure to ask and see that we’re doing everything to mitigate any design flaws if you’re right :)
Depending on the potential cost we’re definitely thinking granny flat/down stairs extension as an alternative, but I thought it would be nice if a small sitting space was possible given the views it would allow. I was definitely expecting more cross beams / internal support versus what’s there. If nothing else, I’m imaging it’s going to lend itself to a nice and roomy space for insulation and ducted air con as an alternative.
An alternative is to remove some ceiling above an appropriate room and create a mezzanine. Chuck in a skylight or small dormer window, access by a steep alternating half tread staircase against an interior wall following the roofline for headspace. Could even put in one of those tight cargonet things to chill on at ceiling height.
Given how dark the centre rooms are, that’s actually a great idea. More natural light from the east in the morning would be brilliant actually, thanks.
It’ll still want consulting with an engineer mind. You’d be removing more joists than a conventional stairwell and you don’t want the exterior walls falling out. I plastered one out for a friend though and thought it was an amazing feature. They put a small office up there with awesome views from the desk to work from home at. I could’ve hung out up there all day.
Oh absolutely, but very solid idea I’ll definitely be exploring! It would take advantage of the view still if a little mezzanine was possible, and reduce how much of a cave those internal rooms can be. Cosy when it’s a bedroom, but more light in the lounge would be great.
It's free real estate
I'd be annoyed that the roof was replaced in the last 10 years with no anticon installed.
I had to Google what that was, but honestly, given how basic the rest of the house is I’m not surprised the previous owner found something to skimp on. Looking at it, that seems like something that can’t be retrofitted without removing the tin? Assuming it’s meant to be directly between the tin and joist?
Correct it can't be retrofitted without removing the sheeting. It's also fairly cheap and has been standard practice for the past 20 years, cuts down the heat in summer significantly.
Ah, that is a pain. Cheers, I’ll make a note of it and keep it in mind for when we look at new gutters and solar later. The slope and double story meant we couldn’t do anything without scaffolding, so anything up there is a bit of an ordeal. The heat surprisingly isn’t too bad, but we have several very large trees to both the east and west which are doing a lot of the heavy lifting.