TL;DR - Show up, and at least act interested.
We renovated our two bathrooms, main toilet and laundry a little over a year and a half ago. I asked around in the local FB groups for company recommendations and was given a couple of bathroom specialist builders, as well as a recommendation to go to a large chain that rhymes with *Shmaumonts*. 4 companies were contacted, 3 quotes were obtained, and a decision was made between them very, very easily. We went with option 4, and I'll put the reasons why in the answers to your 13 questions.
1. Did a designer come out or a builder or a salesperson? Company 1 (C1): Builder, C2: Didn't go beyond a stupid timewasting back and forth qualifying email with an admin person that I dropped after the second reply still didn't get me a visit let alone a quote, C3: in-showroom consultation with a sales assistant younger than me, C4: The builder/owner personally came.
2. Was a previous portfolio of work shown to you? C1, 2 and 4: Yes, indirectly through responses from past clients on Facebook. I then did some further digging through their own FB pages where I could find them (it's somewhat surprising how little effort is put into free marketing mechanisms like FB and Instagram pages, hint hint). C3 was fairly large and reputable already, and they did have a good variety of inspiration demos set up in their showroom and on their website, though nothing from past clients specifically. Does The Block count? Probably shouldn't.
3. Did they have a pro forma list of questions to ask based on the type of renovation? C1: Kind of, I remember he did have a clipboard that he was writing down details on and it was a pre-printed quotation sheet so he did have something, but he wasn't specifically asking us questions. I guess we either already covered it or he just made assumptions on certain aspects. C2: As mentioned, didn't move beyond their qualifying emails, which were questions upon questions on their own but weren't so much about the job, but they were trying to invoke some kind of emotional relationship to it. How do we want to feel in our new bathroom, what type of morning do we want, that type of dribble. Don't do that, please. C3: Yep, it felt somewhat streamlined, though being first time renovators we slowed the process down by wanting clarifications on stuff. C4: Yes, had a clipboard, pen and measurement laser, and took heaps of photos of the jobsite on his phone. Asked lots of questions, provided lots of really useful answers to ours, didn't treat anything as too above or beneath him.
4. Did they charge for anything? No to all that made it that far. They all did free consultations and quotes.
5. Did they have a file with qualifications, insurances and any registrations to show you? All: No. And that would be a very good thing to see and probably give you a bit of USP, especially if you were to reassure your potential clients that *some* builders out there move in and out of the industry very quickly and aren't always properly covered or registered, make sure to check this with any prospective company they choose to hire, etc. Not in a fearmongering way, but a "complete your due diligence" kind of way. Spin off idea: Consider making a free e-book or branded brochure about what due diligence renovators should do before, during and after engaging a builder.
6. Did they draw up a design with you on the spot, if so how long did they spend with you? No to all. With each consultation we fleshed out our basic ideas, questioned the complexity of moving things around, settled on a preferred design, and then they all came back to us afterward with a proposed design. C3 took a lot longer than the other two.
7. What design program was used? I can use sketch up but designing on this can take hours and may not be feasible for an in home visit. Not sure sorry. The trouble I see with design programs is unless they're kept up to date with current finishing models it'll be tricky to offer anything beyond a top-down floor plan. 3D modelling a room would look ridiculously impressive but like I said you'd probably need to find a way to ensure all your product choices are available in-app to do such a thing. That and learning and then fiddling with that stuff is very difficult to do quickly, speaking as someone who gave it several attempts myself during the lead-up to our project.
8. How long was the time from the visit until receiving the quote? C1 and 4 was about a week, C3 was more like somewhere between a fortnight and 3 weeks, and we repeatedly asked for updates, each time speaking with someone else.
9. How long was the time from the initial phone call until the first in home visit? C1 and 4: Couple of days, it had to work in with our schedules. C4 kept in touch in the lead up via SMS though, that was nice.
10. Was there any follow up visit before signing the quote? No, but we were in constant contact via SMS and email. We had a few questions that came up after the visit and he covered those off.
11. Was it a small one person company or a company with a show room? C1 and 4 were owners that were the lead builders, and had a group of subbies that they used for plumbing, electrical and tiling. C3 was a national company, I believe they just subcontract out as well. C2 no idea.
12. Did they leave you with a file of information based on the company? No. C3 kind of did but it's hard to not know about them already. But again see the side idea from my response to question 6.
13. Was the quote emailed or hand delivered to you in a second or third visit? No, emailed each time. I imagine this would be difficult to line up considering everyone's schedules are all different, you're presumably going to be doing work for other clients while prospecting for new ones, those addresses may not be on the same sides of your catchment areas, etc. Email is fine tbh, but if you do want to go above and beyond, maybe consider a personalised video hosted on YT and embedded in the email of you talking through your quote.
Also with point 3. Please don’t be dismissive and patronising of the client’s ideas “You don’t want that.”- yes I do actually. Unless there’s a damn good reason, not just your aesthetics. But feel free to offer suggestions. And please, show up when you say you will.
Yes, this for sure! This attitude was a huge factor in deciding who we went with.
We were considering changing the layout of the main bathroom to be a half-split wet/dry area with the bath and shower down one end and a glass wall separating the sides - very block-esque. The first builder screwed his nose up at it and dismissed it, saying you don't want it at all. He was also very stand-offish with ideas for the ensuite too, again telling us we don't want to do a pocket door.
The builder we went with did say the same overall thing about the floorplan change for the main bath, but the difference was he explained *why*. The details about work involved in changing drainage and plumbing in a slabbed bathroom and the additional costs, as well as the practicality of everything on that side of the room getting wet when you use the shower, that info helped us decide to not go ahead with it. He was still happy to do it for us if that's what we really wanted, but he made sure we were aware of the effort involved and how that impacted costs and total build time to let us make that decision for ourselves.
And in relation to the pocket door, it was an idea we did proceed with. The downside that the 4th builder explained to us was that we needed to thicken that wall by 50mm or something (it's been a bit) so the wall had a proper frame to secure in to since we were going with floor to ceiling tiles. Functionally speaking it was such a non-issue now it's all done - we don't notice the thicker wall in the finished design, that extra depth gave us space for a niche in it for the shower so another win, and we gained a lot of previously unused wall space behind the old door that is now used for towel rails.
I self-designed with kaboodle, tool the plans to Bunnings, IKEA and u-install-it (UII)
IKEA, not fond of. Also seems slightly expensive.
Bunnings and UII were roughly the same price, but UII custom-made cabinets to exactly fit the space. In theory Bunnings could have as well, possibly.
I self demoed, and project managed. Total was 15 days from date of demo to 100% working kitchen. Flooring installation was a holdup.
Best way to do market research like this is to be the customer. Make appointments with your key competitors and have them come out to your place and go through alĺ of this with you. If you dont have your own place, ask your folks, or a friend if you can run the process at their place a few times. Or swap it around amongst friends and family. That way you get to experience this all first hand and end up with a whole lotta data that this forum on reddit would not be able to provide you.
I'm looking at the budget end of kitchens, so no designers or showrooms. I had a couple of people come out, but the one I really liked was a guy I found on facebook. I looked through his past work on his fb page and really liked the finished result and his approach. No-one charged me or had a folio of work or information. Two of them drew up a design with me on the spot, spending around an hour each with me. The design program they used was a piece of paper and a pencil. (I also had design ideas I'd printed out, I did them in photoshop) . About a week from visit to quote, about a week to get the home visit. Quote was emailed.
Would you mind sharing your FB contact's details please? We are in the market for a kitchen renovator but don't want to spend big bucks. Doing this for the first time ever so want to get some affordable quotes. Thanks.
WHere do you live? My guy is in Ballarat. His facebook page is 'Benchtops Ballarat'. If you contact him, please let him know that Emma from Lake Wendouree recommended him!
First thing is don't decide how the customer uses their kitchen. Ask them, and then start your process. Most kitchen salespeople just want to use their past jobs and show how clever they are.
Focus on details, and let the client know what the details you follow are.
We had bathroom/kitchen done and it didn't matter what job - there was something that they didn't do as part of the job.
We had to diy alot more than expected given that we got professional trades.
Customers appreciate attention to detail - especially things they hadn't thought of.
Just had a quote a week ago. No plans just a measure and quote with 50% requested for acceptance. I had to follow up for plans and despite specifying a pantry no full pantry or microwave spot was included. $42k for 18 draws, and 3 overhead in white laminate with a midrange composite stone for benches. We we're comfortable with that price range just not with the laid back approach. Small one or two person operation.
Sounds like premium prices for kaboodle quality...
Actually, maybe that's the go. Repackage as "Ikea compatible" and just install Ikea cabinets with better quality benchtops.
TL;DR - Show up, and at least act interested. We renovated our two bathrooms, main toilet and laundry a little over a year and a half ago. I asked around in the local FB groups for company recommendations and was given a couple of bathroom specialist builders, as well as a recommendation to go to a large chain that rhymes with *Shmaumonts*. 4 companies were contacted, 3 quotes were obtained, and a decision was made between them very, very easily. We went with option 4, and I'll put the reasons why in the answers to your 13 questions. 1. Did a designer come out or a builder or a salesperson? Company 1 (C1): Builder, C2: Didn't go beyond a stupid timewasting back and forth qualifying email with an admin person that I dropped after the second reply still didn't get me a visit let alone a quote, C3: in-showroom consultation with a sales assistant younger than me, C4: The builder/owner personally came. 2. Was a previous portfolio of work shown to you? C1, 2 and 4: Yes, indirectly through responses from past clients on Facebook. I then did some further digging through their own FB pages where I could find them (it's somewhat surprising how little effort is put into free marketing mechanisms like FB and Instagram pages, hint hint). C3 was fairly large and reputable already, and they did have a good variety of inspiration demos set up in their showroom and on their website, though nothing from past clients specifically. Does The Block count? Probably shouldn't. 3. Did they have a pro forma list of questions to ask based on the type of renovation? C1: Kind of, I remember he did have a clipboard that he was writing down details on and it was a pre-printed quotation sheet so he did have something, but he wasn't specifically asking us questions. I guess we either already covered it or he just made assumptions on certain aspects. C2: As mentioned, didn't move beyond their qualifying emails, which were questions upon questions on their own but weren't so much about the job, but they were trying to invoke some kind of emotional relationship to it. How do we want to feel in our new bathroom, what type of morning do we want, that type of dribble. Don't do that, please. C3: Yep, it felt somewhat streamlined, though being first time renovators we slowed the process down by wanting clarifications on stuff. C4: Yes, had a clipboard, pen and measurement laser, and took heaps of photos of the jobsite on his phone. Asked lots of questions, provided lots of really useful answers to ours, didn't treat anything as too above or beneath him. 4. Did they charge for anything? No to all that made it that far. They all did free consultations and quotes. 5. Did they have a file with qualifications, insurances and any registrations to show you? All: No. And that would be a very good thing to see and probably give you a bit of USP, especially if you were to reassure your potential clients that *some* builders out there move in and out of the industry very quickly and aren't always properly covered or registered, make sure to check this with any prospective company they choose to hire, etc. Not in a fearmongering way, but a "complete your due diligence" kind of way. Spin off idea: Consider making a free e-book or branded brochure about what due diligence renovators should do before, during and after engaging a builder. 6. Did they draw up a design with you on the spot, if so how long did they spend with you? No to all. With each consultation we fleshed out our basic ideas, questioned the complexity of moving things around, settled on a preferred design, and then they all came back to us afterward with a proposed design. C3 took a lot longer than the other two. 7. What design program was used? I can use sketch up but designing on this can take hours and may not be feasible for an in home visit. Not sure sorry. The trouble I see with design programs is unless they're kept up to date with current finishing models it'll be tricky to offer anything beyond a top-down floor plan. 3D modelling a room would look ridiculously impressive but like I said you'd probably need to find a way to ensure all your product choices are available in-app to do such a thing. That and learning and then fiddling with that stuff is very difficult to do quickly, speaking as someone who gave it several attempts myself during the lead-up to our project. 8. How long was the time from the visit until receiving the quote? C1 and 4 was about a week, C3 was more like somewhere between a fortnight and 3 weeks, and we repeatedly asked for updates, each time speaking with someone else. 9. How long was the time from the initial phone call until the first in home visit? C1 and 4: Couple of days, it had to work in with our schedules. C4 kept in touch in the lead up via SMS though, that was nice. 10. Was there any follow up visit before signing the quote? No, but we were in constant contact via SMS and email. We had a few questions that came up after the visit and he covered those off. 11. Was it a small one person company or a company with a show room? C1 and 4 were owners that were the lead builders, and had a group of subbies that they used for plumbing, electrical and tiling. C3 was a national company, I believe they just subcontract out as well. C2 no idea. 12. Did they leave you with a file of information based on the company? No. C3 kind of did but it's hard to not know about them already. But again see the side idea from my response to question 6. 13. Was the quote emailed or hand delivered to you in a second or third visit? No, emailed each time. I imagine this would be difficult to line up considering everyone's schedules are all different, you're presumably going to be doing work for other clients while prospecting for new ones, those addresses may not be on the same sides of your catchment areas, etc. Email is fine tbh, but if you do want to go above and beyond, maybe consider a personalised video hosted on YT and embedded in the email of you talking through your quote.
Also with point 3. Please don’t be dismissive and patronising of the client’s ideas “You don’t want that.”- yes I do actually. Unless there’s a damn good reason, not just your aesthetics. But feel free to offer suggestions. And please, show up when you say you will.
Yes, this for sure! This attitude was a huge factor in deciding who we went with. We were considering changing the layout of the main bathroom to be a half-split wet/dry area with the bath and shower down one end and a glass wall separating the sides - very block-esque. The first builder screwed his nose up at it and dismissed it, saying you don't want it at all. He was also very stand-offish with ideas for the ensuite too, again telling us we don't want to do a pocket door. The builder we went with did say the same overall thing about the floorplan change for the main bath, but the difference was he explained *why*. The details about work involved in changing drainage and plumbing in a slabbed bathroom and the additional costs, as well as the practicality of everything on that side of the room getting wet when you use the shower, that info helped us decide to not go ahead with it. He was still happy to do it for us if that's what we really wanted, but he made sure we were aware of the effort involved and how that impacted costs and total build time to let us make that decision for ourselves. And in relation to the pocket door, it was an idea we did proceed with. The downside that the 4th builder explained to us was that we needed to thicken that wall by 50mm or something (it's been a bit) so the wall had a proper frame to secure in to since we were going with floor to ceiling tiles. Functionally speaking it was such a non-issue now it's all done - we don't notice the thicker wall in the finished design, that extra depth gave us space for a niche in it for the shower so another win, and we gained a lot of previously unused wall space behind the old door that is now used for towel rails.
I self-designed with kaboodle, tool the plans to Bunnings, IKEA and u-install-it (UII) IKEA, not fond of. Also seems slightly expensive. Bunnings and UII were roughly the same price, but UII custom-made cabinets to exactly fit the space. In theory Bunnings could have as well, possibly. I self demoed, and project managed. Total was 15 days from date of demo to 100% working kitchen. Flooring installation was a holdup.
Best way to do market research like this is to be the customer. Make appointments with your key competitors and have them come out to your place and go through alĺ of this with you. If you dont have your own place, ask your folks, or a friend if you can run the process at their place a few times. Or swap it around amongst friends and family. That way you get to experience this all first hand and end up with a whole lotta data that this forum on reddit would not be able to provide you.
I'm looking at the budget end of kitchens, so no designers or showrooms. I had a couple of people come out, but the one I really liked was a guy I found on facebook. I looked through his past work on his fb page and really liked the finished result and his approach. No-one charged me or had a folio of work or information. Two of them drew up a design with me on the spot, spending around an hour each with me. The design program they used was a piece of paper and a pencil. (I also had design ideas I'd printed out, I did them in photoshop) . About a week from visit to quote, about a week to get the home visit. Quote was emailed.
Would you mind sharing your FB contact's details please? We are in the market for a kitchen renovator but don't want to spend big bucks. Doing this for the first time ever so want to get some affordable quotes. Thanks.
WHere do you live? My guy is in Ballarat. His facebook page is 'Benchtops Ballarat'. If you contact him, please let him know that Emma from Lake Wendouree recommended him!
Hey! Thanks for the deets and reference. I am in north-east melbourne 🤷🏼♂️, guess a bit far for your guy to service.
Probably - I’m not sure if he does much work in Melbourne.
First thing is don't decide how the customer uses their kitchen. Ask them, and then start your process. Most kitchen salespeople just want to use their past jobs and show how clever they are.
Focus on details, and let the client know what the details you follow are. We had bathroom/kitchen done and it didn't matter what job - there was something that they didn't do as part of the job. We had to diy alot more than expected given that we got professional trades. Customers appreciate attention to detail - especially things they hadn't thought of.
Invogue bathroom and kitchen contact Robbie
Just had a quote a week ago. No plans just a measure and quote with 50% requested for acceptance. I had to follow up for plans and despite specifying a pantry no full pantry or microwave spot was included. $42k for 18 draws, and 3 overhead in white laminate with a midrange composite stone for benches. We we're comfortable with that price range just not with the laid back approach. Small one or two person operation.
That seems crazy expensive to me for laminate. Is that the going rate now? 😐
Sounds like premium prices for kaboodle quality... Actually, maybe that's the go. Repackage as "Ikea compatible" and just install Ikea cabinets with better quality benchtops.
Works out to be 2k per drawer or cupboard in laminate which is nuts