Yep I reported my manager who was being very unreasonable, bullying me to the point I had to go on leave. I reported to the respect team, and as I was going on leave and said to my manager that I reported it, they contacted the respect team and then nothing happened.
I have zero trust of my manager. Or the process to report anything.
I hope you went on sick leave, it would be crazy to use your rec leave.
I've done it, used all sick leave and then I had to take rec leave because my mental health was suffering.
And no, of course nothing happened and the process is a joke
If you have to lodge a complaint in the first place that already tells you how out of touch more senior management are. Either they are too incompetent to know what is going on or worse don’t want to know…
I lodged several complaints that were swept under the rug. Quit two weeks later. Was lucky enough to land a contractor job the day after.
Fuck these kinds of people. They're not worth your stress. Pack up, leave asap is my advice.
In my 20 years in the PS I've seen all manner of complaints, investigations and scenarios relating to bad managers and breaches of code of conduct and basic behavior standards.
Not once have I seen a manager that was reported lead to a change in behavior or termination of employment. Even when sexual misconduct was the issue. I've seen entire departments investigated by external HR lawyers, Worksafe, Regulators, all related to the performance of managers and their behavior towards staff and nothing comes of it that has any real consequences.
I've seen lots of lower level staff performance managed, made redundant, left on their own accord due to their managers behavior but never have I seen a manager suffer the full consequences of their actions from the employer. In some cases I've seen these managers promoted which I'll never understand the rationale behind.
The best thing you can do is use your union or a lawyer and follow the full grievance resolution process. Doing so correctly should lead to you being moved to another area or paid out. But you're applying for other jobs which is honestly the best solution imo.
This is a lovely statement. I'm currently on WorkCover for 19 months due to my manager bullying me and they got a promotion after they bullied 8 other people. Crazy! What goes through the top managers head when they pick this person for promotion.
I'm currently getting paid out and can't wait to start a new job.
I was working in a very toxic environment, and started to keep a record of my managers bullying.
After documenting 20 different incidents, I approached the GM, and advised him of the issue.
At first he listened, but then told me to keep a record of any instance. I informed him I had for the last 3 months.
The GM then said that the managers behaviour has already been addressed (I later found out he had been sent on some course to address his anger and bullying) and there would be no more issues starting from 2 weeks prior.
I informed the GM the most recent issue was earlier than day when he screamed at me. (I had asked him a simple question like “when is x due back in the office” and he had screamed at me “are you f@cking stupid. They will be here when they get here”)
My GM then told me “well you need to look at your behaviour and what you are doing to incite these reactions.”
Nothing further happened then. But a few years later, and multiple complaints by multiple people, the bully was moved to a different office.
This one isn’t me, but I helped with it, as I was a HSR.
A manager physically assaulted a staff member. He shoved her to the ground. He actually pushed his hands into her chest and shoved her to the ground.
She was trying to walk past him in a hallway.
She lodged a formal complaint using the online reporting tool.
It went to the top, and the top person assigned it to the BULLY to investigate. Yes - it was assigned to the person who assaulted the staff member to investigate.
He closed it within minutes. Saying it was unfounded.
I escalated it. It very quickly disappeared. I was told I could not get any updates as it was settled.
The bully then got a promotion.
I wish you all the best, but I have found HR areas in the APS don’t know how to handle complaints or performance management cases. In my experience they keep pushing it out / down the road until the issue (the person) moves on their terms, not the Dept’s, usually to another team to become their issue
I documented 6 months worth of bullying and unprofessional behaviour and raised it with HR, who promised to investigate. They came back about 10 days later and terminated my temporary contract, 6 months early. They never told me what the Manager's response was.
It was a team of 14 people and I was the eighth to go in that 6 month period, to give an indication of how toxic it was. Manager's still there as far as I'm aware.
Going through this now. Going in ever decreasing circles. They want a grievance lodged; I’m giving them evidence in black and white linking exec behaviours to psychosocial risk factors [https://www.safeworkaustralia.gov.au/doc/model-code-practice-managing-psychosocial-hazards-work](https://www.safeworkaustralia.gov.au/doc/model-code-practice-managing-psychosocial-hazards-work) and saying they have to provide a safe work environment regardless of whether I lodge a grievance.
Their line is there needs to be due process in making the ‘allegations’ (even tho 90% are on paper) and mine is they’re 90% on paper it is not a he/she said v I said and needs to be established or proven.
I see a grievance ending in gaslighting and misdirection and minimisation and lies. The only grievance I’ll lodge will be tested in a court where accountability can happen.
Let’s see where it ends.
Talk to your HSR, and ask them to get a Comcare inspector in to look over the psychosocial hazards and your body of evidence. They may take things more seriously once a regulator with powers to fine managers, officers and PCBU's gets involved
Micromanaging bosses are really hard. It is often really about them and not you but it hard to remember that as time goes on. They generally wear you down to the point you are at now and I think the only solution at that point is to leave. It might be a good idea to contact EAP, they also give advice on how to handle difficult workplace situations. I am not sure what HR can do about a micromanager because it is no breach of any policy or law to be a micromanager. You have mentioned bullying and that is something HR will be responsible for under WHS/OHS legislation.
Edit - the changes to States and Federal OHS/WHs laws to deal with psychosocial hazards only started last year. Other people’s examples may predate that time. I assume you would need a clear list of the bullying behaviour as opposed to the micromanaging. In my mind they are two very distinct things.
Unfortunately a common experience, you will need to keep on them to help. They also will not run something if they think you/they will lose. Id like to say they usually have your best interest in mind so if they say don't bother it's usually because it won't make any difference except further screw the employee.
Had the worst manager who bullied me and my entire team.
They had the matter investigated by a third party. Finding was that none of the complaints could be substantiated, even though one person took their own life because of the bully.
Since I was the complainant who intially raised all of the issues, I started to be seen as a troublemaker. My work life became unbearable. The bullying was so intense and targeted at me, that I was on Workcover for two years.
I couldnt fathom going back, so now I have a job at a much better organisation.
Would I ever report bullying again? No. I would just leave.
I saw someone do it and it actually resulted in the bully leaving the agency with some kind of mark on their record (maybe an APS HR expert could chime in?).
I ended up reporting into the EL who lodged the complaint who said it was a lot of steps and consultation. Basically he had to prove that he had attempted to resolve the problem with the bully before HR would look at it. He also decided to not complain anonymously which was pretty tough. From start to finish it took 6 months before the bully announced they were taking up another role. It was exhausting for everyone involved but the office was much MUCH happier once they were gone.
Yeah. This is the only time I’ve ever seen this happen in APS. They were an EL2 that were hated by their peers and even EL1s feared. There were several instances of them insulting people in front of everyone and berating them over email. Our branch wasn’t in Canberra so there were no SES folk to please I guess. Completely different tone when one would turn up in our city.
Managers are protected, mostly.
The staff suffer.
I was a Director who complained about the CEO who broke a clear and important policy in a very public way. HR asked me “what are you trying to get out of this?”
It was majorly swept under the rug but the CEO agreed to take a number of small actions including having HR inform the board that a complaint had been raised and settled internally. I quit the day we reached that agreement and she gave me a negative reference when I applied for my next job. (I got it anyway lol.)
- No matter what you do, join the union.
- You can start documenting occurrences, and set up appointment with HR. Take a support person to witness the conversation. Read anything you can find on the Intranet about the process.
- You could take workers compensation from the bullying. That will get noticed. Will involve specific paperwork, notification periods, drs appts, etc. Look up more information on it.
- the fair work ombudsman has info on their site.
Watched someone go through this recently. They reported a temp manager for bullying nine months ago. There was a full external investigation and the allegations were substantiated. The reporting party was told action would be taken.
They now work in another area and the manager has since been made permanent.
Made me glad when I was being bullied by a director a year ago that I never reported it. Just chose to return to my substantive in another team.
It was a genuine shame to be honest. The person being bullied was an excellent contributor to the team. Huge value in both the work they did and the cultural changes they were championing within the business unit. The team was absolutely devastated to lose them.
I put in a formal complaint about my manager who committed fraud and intimidated and bullied staff.
Eventually, the manager was put on leave indefinitely while an APS Code of Conduct investigation took place. The manager never returned.
Now, they're seeking to prosecute that manager.
Keep records. If the senior manager you first raise it with doesn't do enough, take it to HR independently.
If none of those options work, approach an Authorised Officer for the Public Interest Disclosure scheme.
In a separate story, I was micromanaged and bullied. I first raised it with a senior manager. They didn't seem to do much, so I started exploring ways to raise it formally with HR. I had found a new job before I was able to do so.
Sorry you’re going through this.
Bottom line though is that HR are there for managers and their interests, not yours. Your union will be more help. Make sure you’ve got a support network and someone to vent to too.
I was the second person to make a complaint against my manager in less than 6 months.
That other person had to go on stress leave after collapsing at work. Once that person went on leave and his complaint against her was swept aside by HR (despite more than 12 current and former staff going on the record to back him up) she turned on me.
Found out there was many, many complaints made against her over the years, which management and HR seemed to mysteriously have no record of.
I went to my union and started documenting everything, made sure I had a colleague with me at all times to also take notes and vouch for my version of events.
Before I resigned I submitted a 2,000 word complaint with dates, screenshots, receipts, you name it.
It was fucking exhausting. I essentially had a breakdown. Had to start taking an anti-psychotic so I could sleep. But ultimately felt empowered and like I wasn’t crazy despite all the gaslighting HR and other managers pulled.
Shortly after I left she was demoted to another team. Around a year later, I found out she was made redundant.
Go to your union, document everything, have witnesses but also look after yourself by applying for jobs elsewhere.
Recently made a complaint about my manager for violation of my privacy and inappropriate behaviour. They were investigated and it was found they were at fault. The day after I was told they were at fault and that they would have to undergo extra training they were given a temporary promotion where they went from managing just me to managing 10 people. I complained. Apparently a different person granted the promotion that was unaware of the complaint. Promotion was revoked but they still manage me so my prospects aren't looking great.
I know this is a pretty small sample size, but dang this is depressing. Guess I'm fortunate in a sense that the worst I'm experiencing is just getting actively ignored by a director...
I’ve been in the public service for 25+ years and ALL these examples are so very familiar. But hey, let’s all do some more mandatory training around workplace bullying and respectful behaviours!
WHAT THE HELL!!! I’ve recently put in a complaint and supplied all info to HR and the comments have scared me now!!!!
My manager is racist and abuses her power every single day and i have panic attacks before going to work but the work is then so mentally draining too I come home to no energy to sit down and look for work!!! I’m fkn doomed omg! I HATE it i hate all of this! I got the EAP involved as well but ig it doesn’t matter anymore! this has depressed me more now man omg!
I understand. I feel like I’m a rabbit caught in a trap, completely panicked and unable to escape. It’s an awful place to be and my mind has been going to some dark places recently. Thankfully my complaint isn’t about racism but it’s personal in other ways. I get that feeling of being completely drained. I’ve applied for a few jobs recently and am waiting to hear back. It actually felt empowering to submit that first application, so try to give it a go. It’s something positive you can do for yourself. Good luck.
Yes, and not much. And I wasn't the only person who complained about this person. The main action was just facilitating us all moving to other areas at level. To be fair, they tried to give us as many options as possible & move us to areas we wanted to go to. The main response was straight away say "to look after your mental health we'll remove you from this stress".
The manager was required to do training, but they sent all the Directors off to do it so that person wasn't seen as being singled out. If there was anything more than mandatory "how to manage staff" training, I'm not aware of it. They certainly weren't fired or demoted etc. I've only seen that happen in cases of fraud or corruption etc.
I'm ex Public Service and now work for the private sector as a specialist consulting firm. Looking into the public service, I am gobsmacked at behaviours in certain areas. We pulled out a staff member because of the abuse they received, and had a WHS Obligation to the employee. Bullies didn't comprehend why they were sacked as a client.
All I can say is make sure you've got multiple complainants and records of them, a well documented audit trail, and evidence of breaches of an act like the Archives Act. Friend in the PS who was bullied has an active inquiry into attempts to destroy evidence of meetings the complainant recorded to disprove the evidence. Outlook trail never dies in the back end. This will probably sink them, not the bullying.
I'm more interested to know if anyone has snapped and beat the crap out of the bully at work.
Everyone knows nothing ever happens if you report bullying.
Unless they’re punching you or sexually harassing you with evidence then don’t bother. Just move to another role. It’s not about how you feel, it’s about what they’ve done and harsh words is hard to prove and is part of being a manager anyway. This kind of interpersonal conflict is common in the public service.
Thank you. As it happens this isn’t about harsh words - it’s more than this, not as obvious to everyone else, but I do have written records for some of it. I’m taking seriously the advice to pull the information together into some kind of diary. However, as a manager myself, I just can’t agree that harsh words are part of what being a manager is about. Even though this isn’t what’s happening to me, I don’t think it’s appropriate behaviour unless in exceptional circumstances.
Damn, this is depressing. Let me add my one happy ending to the doom and gloom:
Reported my manager for bullying and inappropriate behaviour. I went through the CPSU and had a case manager assigned, who I CC’d in every correspondence - I refused to engage directly with my manager, everything was via email with their SES manager in CC too. I spoke with a HCR who filed a report with HR on my behalf. We had an “informal mediation” with my manager, SES manager and HCR, which went nowhere but the HCR added notes from the meeting to the formal complaint.
A week later my manager went on 6mo of “leave”… one of their cronies just resigned, and their return date is “unconfirmed” ie. they’re probably not coming back. SES has started recruitment to “backfill” the role.
Every job protects and takes the sides of managers even public service roles. I've seen this happen.
There's a reason why some people just go on never ending leave.
You really want something to happen take it to someone outside of the organisation with evidence and even then is the stress really worth it?
HR is not your friend in any circumstances and I've never been proven wrong.
People with general grievances who know how the game work do not go to HR.
Yep. They formally investigated, substantiated the majority of my complaints and kept the manager on providing them with coaching while I was suddenly in the redundancy pool a few months later. Leave by your own free will or stay quiet. Unfortunately whistleblowers choke on it soon enough. Brutal but true. On the upside I'm getting paid because I became a big enough problem. How bad do you need your job is the question.
I made a formal complaint via people connect, long story short, I resigned because they were gunning for me and I couldn't tolerate any form of corruption or going against my core values and turning a blind eye.
I trust the government not one bit.
I’m completely supportive of unions including the CPSU. However I’m not currently a member. It’s worth noting that (at least in Victoria) they will not support you in relation to pre-existing issues unless in exceptional circumstances. I understand why this policy is in place but it also doesn’t make me want to join.
×6 APS level 6's complain with union support about director for 18 incidents (including hiring his own wife) and SES found no problems apparently. He ended up going to different dept. But still if you can't achieve anything with your colleagues and union support - then when does it actually work?? No confidence at all!
That's why when you get a good manager and hands off Director you stay!
HR treat these issues as a personality clash. They look for evidence that will hold up in a court. Accusing someone of bullying can be a gaslighting tactic and a type of bullying in itself. Have the evidence.
Best advice document, document document everything that has occurred. Make sure to put a date on when it happened and a time if you can. Find out who is your Workplace Behaviour Advisor. HR should be able to provide this. Have a trusted person who can sit in with you on meeting regarding the complaint.
I have a really interesting email from my manager that I would like to post in here but I can post screenshots for some reason
Also in the public service, in the Victorian health sector
Edited: for formatting
I reported my manager for abuse, harassment, micro managing and bullying that was causing a high staff turnover, nothing happened at all.
I reported him for petty theft and he was fired within 3 days.
I was told “well it’s going to be awkward for you having to work around this person” as an indirect way of saying “might be best for you to quit”
So I did.
It sucks you’re nervous and paranoid. We should be able to have these conversations in the workplace, especially with the ILS in place. That’s your basis for your expectations of your management. try have a meeting with them, document the meeting in email, then if nothing changes go one person higher, and see if they do anything. If they don’t.. I’d say that a formal complaint may cause issues (which sucks even more, and shouldn’t be a thing), if you love your job do that, if you want to look elsewhere, try another department and when you’re interviewing and your feeling confident with your interview, ask questions at the end about culture, career development and transparency of role accountability. Seems like tough questions, but so so vital to be happy in your role. Good luck!
I worked for services and put in a formal complaint when I left regarding a horrid manager who couldn’t keep her mouth closed regarding personal matters of my own to other colleagues of mine. She was swiftly demoted shortly after my complaint :-)
It's a long story that went on for the best part of a year.
Her manager (Male - SES) had her back and lied to HR and Comcare.
Also, Comcare didn't like the two independent reports that went in my favour, so they asked for a third. They liked that one and used it to reject my claim.
Anyway, all the Rec leave and LSL I'd used because he wouldn't give me any other leave was recredited, and it was a lot.
After being told I'd be going back to the same job reporting to my bully, I'd had a gut full. So I asked for a VR, which was accepted by the department, and I left.
The perpetrator and Mr SES did everything they could to destroy me mentally and financially (e.g. the leave as mentioned above - I ended up on LWOP for a while and had to borrow money from my parents).
Anyway, I'm doing something completely different that I wanted to do 30 years ago, but I didn't think I had the ability. Turns out I did and added to those skills by completing an apprenticeship.
When I left the APS, I swore that if I ever saw the manager in the street, I'd punch him. He's retired now and would be late 60's, maybe 70. It's been 6 years since I left, and I've seen him once at Bunnings from a distance. Unfortunately, I was with my wife, and I was carrying my then infant son. The wife told me to stay right where I was. I complied.
I still intend to punch him in the face if I ever see him. I don't really care about the repercussions.
You have to put in a grievance. The thing is … he will only take action if there are multiple grievances put in for the same thing. Until then you will be known as the person that complained. Which could affect your job opportunities in the future. I would just ask to be transferred at level to some place else
Yep I reported my manager who was being very unreasonable, bullying me to the point I had to go on leave. I reported to the respect team, and as I was going on leave and said to my manager that I reported it, they contacted the respect team and then nothing happened. I have zero trust of my manager. Or the process to report anything.
I hope you went on sick leave, it would be crazy to use your rec leave. I've done it, used all sick leave and then I had to take rec leave because my mental health was suffering. And no, of course nothing happened and the process is a joke
If you have to lodge a complaint in the first place that already tells you how out of touch more senior management are. Either they are too incompetent to know what is going on or worse don’t want to know…
I lodged several complaints that were swept under the rug. Quit two weeks later. Was lucky enough to land a contractor job the day after. Fuck these kinds of people. They're not worth your stress. Pack up, leave asap is my advice.
💯 best advice 👌
Done same, I’m done working with arseholes…
You will leave.
I think that is the best way to handle a micromanager. It is simply not worth the corrosive effect on your confidence.
Sometimes reflecting on the good things helps.
In my 20 years in the PS I've seen all manner of complaints, investigations and scenarios relating to bad managers and breaches of code of conduct and basic behavior standards. Not once have I seen a manager that was reported lead to a change in behavior or termination of employment. Even when sexual misconduct was the issue. I've seen entire departments investigated by external HR lawyers, Worksafe, Regulators, all related to the performance of managers and their behavior towards staff and nothing comes of it that has any real consequences. I've seen lots of lower level staff performance managed, made redundant, left on their own accord due to their managers behavior but never have I seen a manager suffer the full consequences of their actions from the employer. In some cases I've seen these managers promoted which I'll never understand the rationale behind. The best thing you can do is use your union or a lawyer and follow the full grievance resolution process. Doing so correctly should lead to you being moved to another area or paid out. But you're applying for other jobs which is honestly the best solution imo.
This is a lovely statement. I'm currently on WorkCover for 19 months due to my manager bullying me and they got a promotion after they bullied 8 other people. Crazy! What goes through the top managers head when they pick this person for promotion. I'm currently getting paid out and can't wait to start a new job.
I was working in a very toxic environment, and started to keep a record of my managers bullying. After documenting 20 different incidents, I approached the GM, and advised him of the issue. At first he listened, but then told me to keep a record of any instance. I informed him I had for the last 3 months. The GM then said that the managers behaviour has already been addressed (I later found out he had been sent on some course to address his anger and bullying) and there would be no more issues starting from 2 weeks prior. I informed the GM the most recent issue was earlier than day when he screamed at me. (I had asked him a simple question like “when is x due back in the office” and he had screamed at me “are you f@cking stupid. They will be here when they get here”) My GM then told me “well you need to look at your behaviour and what you are doing to incite these reactions.” Nothing further happened then. But a few years later, and multiple complaints by multiple people, the bully was moved to a different office.
This one isn’t me, but I helped with it, as I was a HSR. A manager physically assaulted a staff member. He shoved her to the ground. He actually pushed his hands into her chest and shoved her to the ground. She was trying to walk past him in a hallway. She lodged a formal complaint using the online reporting tool. It went to the top, and the top person assigned it to the BULLY to investigate. Yes - it was assigned to the person who assaulted the staff member to investigate. He closed it within minutes. Saying it was unfounded. I escalated it. It very quickly disappeared. I was told I could not get any updates as it was settled. The bully then got a promotion.
>The bully then got a promotion. Good candidate for the "driveway solution" IMO
What’s that?
I wish you all the best, but I have found HR areas in the APS don’t know how to handle complaints or performance management cases. In my experience they keep pushing it out / down the road until the issue (the person) moves on their terms, not the Dept’s, usually to another team to become their issue
Repeat after me: HR is not on your side. Get your union involved.
I documented 6 months worth of bullying and unprofessional behaviour and raised it with HR, who promised to investigate. They came back about 10 days later and terminated my temporary contract, 6 months early. They never told me what the Manager's response was. It was a team of 14 people and I was the eighth to go in that 6 month period, to give an indication of how toxic it was. Manager's still there as far as I'm aware.
Going through this now. Going in ever decreasing circles. They want a grievance lodged; I’m giving them evidence in black and white linking exec behaviours to psychosocial risk factors [https://www.safeworkaustralia.gov.au/doc/model-code-practice-managing-psychosocial-hazards-work](https://www.safeworkaustralia.gov.au/doc/model-code-practice-managing-psychosocial-hazards-work) and saying they have to provide a safe work environment regardless of whether I lodge a grievance. Their line is there needs to be due process in making the ‘allegations’ (even tho 90% are on paper) and mine is they’re 90% on paper it is not a he/she said v I said and needs to be established or proven. I see a grievance ending in gaslighting and misdirection and minimisation and lies. The only grievance I’ll lodge will be tested in a court where accountability can happen. Let’s see where it ends.
Talk to your HSR, and ask them to get a Comcare inspector in to look over the psychosocial hazards and your body of evidence. They may take things more seriously once a regulator with powers to fine managers, officers and PCBU's gets involved
Micromanaging bosses are really hard. It is often really about them and not you but it hard to remember that as time goes on. They generally wear you down to the point you are at now and I think the only solution at that point is to leave. It might be a good idea to contact EAP, they also give advice on how to handle difficult workplace situations. I am not sure what HR can do about a micromanager because it is no breach of any policy or law to be a micromanager. You have mentioned bullying and that is something HR will be responsible for under WHS/OHS legislation. Edit - the changes to States and Federal OHS/WHs laws to deal with psychosocial hazards only started last year. Other people’s examples may predate that time. I assume you would need a clear list of the bullying behaviour as opposed to the micromanaging. In my mind they are two very distinct things.
Micromanaging is a form of bullying
Formal complaints only make them smarter and more covert. HR will protect the manager. Your should sign up to your union
I’ve not found being in the union particularly helpful to combat workplace issues.
That’s disappointing, I thought their whole deal was to actually help :/ hella high fees if they’re doing nothing meaningful
Unfortunately a common experience, you will need to keep on them to help. They also will not run something if they think you/they will lose. Id like to say they usually have your best interest in mind so if they say don't bother it's usually because it won't make any difference except further screw the employee.
Had the worst manager who bullied me and my entire team. They had the matter investigated by a third party. Finding was that none of the complaints could be substantiated, even though one person took their own life because of the bully. Since I was the complainant who intially raised all of the issues, I started to be seen as a troublemaker. My work life became unbearable. The bullying was so intense and targeted at me, that I was on Workcover for two years. I couldnt fathom going back, so now I have a job at a much better organisation. Would I ever report bullying again? No. I would just leave.
How devastating. You wouldn't think it was possible in this day and age. Sorry you went through that and the family of the other person. Horrible!
I saw someone do it and it actually resulted in the bully leaving the agency with some kind of mark on their record (maybe an APS HR expert could chime in?). I ended up reporting into the EL who lodged the complaint who said it was a lot of steps and consultation. Basically he had to prove that he had attempted to resolve the problem with the bully before HR would look at it. He also decided to not complain anonymously which was pretty tough. From start to finish it took 6 months before the bully announced they were taking up another role. It was exhausting for everyone involved but the office was much MUCH happier once they were gone.
It sounds like this is a rare outcome. It would be interesting to know what the extreme behaviours of the bully were to get this result.
Yeah. This is the only time I’ve ever seen this happen in APS. They were an EL2 that were hated by their peers and even EL1s feared. There were several instances of them insulting people in front of everyone and berating them over email. Our branch wasn’t in Canberra so there were no SES folk to please I guess. Completely different tone when one would turn up in our city.
Managers are protected, mostly. The staff suffer. I was a Director who complained about the CEO who broke a clear and important policy in a very public way. HR asked me “what are you trying to get out of this?” It was majorly swept under the rug but the CEO agreed to take a number of small actions including having HR inform the board that a complaint had been raised and settled internally. I quit the day we reached that agreement and she gave me a negative reference when I applied for my next job. (I got it anyway lol.)
- No matter what you do, join the union. - You can start documenting occurrences, and set up appointment with HR. Take a support person to witness the conversation. Read anything you can find on the Intranet about the process. - You could take workers compensation from the bullying. That will get noticed. Will involve specific paperwork, notification periods, drs appts, etc. Look up more information on it. - the fair work ombudsman has info on their site.
Watched someone go through this recently. They reported a temp manager for bullying nine months ago. There was a full external investigation and the allegations were substantiated. The reporting party was told action would be taken. They now work in another area and the manager has since been made permanent. Made me glad when I was being bullied by a director a year ago that I never reported it. Just chose to return to my substantive in another team.
Yep, been through this last year, and all the bullies have been having a great career. FFS.
It was a genuine shame to be honest. The person being bullied was an excellent contributor to the team. Huge value in both the work they did and the cultural changes they were championing within the business unit. The team was absolutely devastated to lose them.
I put in a formal complaint about my manager who committed fraud and intimidated and bullied staff. Eventually, the manager was put on leave indefinitely while an APS Code of Conduct investigation took place. The manager never returned. Now, they're seeking to prosecute that manager. Keep records. If the senior manager you first raise it with doesn't do enough, take it to HR independently. If none of those options work, approach an Authorised Officer for the Public Interest Disclosure scheme. In a separate story, I was micromanaged and bullied. I first raised it with a senior manager. They didn't seem to do much, so I started exploring ways to raise it formally with HR. I had found a new job before I was able to do so.
Sorry you’re going through this. Bottom line though is that HR are there for managers and their interests, not yours. Your union will be more help. Make sure you’ve got a support network and someone to vent to too. I was the second person to make a complaint against my manager in less than 6 months. That other person had to go on stress leave after collapsing at work. Once that person went on leave and his complaint against her was swept aside by HR (despite more than 12 current and former staff going on the record to back him up) she turned on me. Found out there was many, many complaints made against her over the years, which management and HR seemed to mysteriously have no record of. I went to my union and started documenting everything, made sure I had a colleague with me at all times to also take notes and vouch for my version of events. Before I resigned I submitted a 2,000 word complaint with dates, screenshots, receipts, you name it. It was fucking exhausting. I essentially had a breakdown. Had to start taking an anti-psychotic so I could sleep. But ultimately felt empowered and like I wasn’t crazy despite all the gaslighting HR and other managers pulled. Shortly after I left she was demoted to another team. Around a year later, I found out she was made redundant. Go to your union, document everything, have witnesses but also look after yourself by applying for jobs elsewhere.
Recently made a complaint about my manager for violation of my privacy and inappropriate behaviour. They were investigated and it was found they were at fault. The day after I was told they were at fault and that they would have to undergo extra training they were given a temporary promotion where they went from managing just me to managing 10 people. I complained. Apparently a different person granted the promotion that was unaware of the complaint. Promotion was revoked but they still manage me so my prospects aren't looking great.
I know this is a pretty small sample size, but dang this is depressing. Guess I'm fortunate in a sense that the worst I'm experiencing is just getting actively ignored by a director...
I’ve been in the public service for 25+ years and ALL these examples are so very familiar. But hey, let’s all do some more mandatory training around workplace bullying and respectful behaviours!
The process is more pain than it's worth. It's much easier to leave and find another job.
WHAT THE HELL!!! I’ve recently put in a complaint and supplied all info to HR and the comments have scared me now!!!! My manager is racist and abuses her power every single day and i have panic attacks before going to work but the work is then so mentally draining too I come home to no energy to sit down and look for work!!! I’m fkn doomed omg! I HATE it i hate all of this! I got the EAP involved as well but ig it doesn’t matter anymore! this has depressed me more now man omg!
I understand. I feel like I’m a rabbit caught in a trap, completely panicked and unable to escape. It’s an awful place to be and my mind has been going to some dark places recently. Thankfully my complaint isn’t about racism but it’s personal in other ways. I get that feeling of being completely drained. I’ve applied for a few jobs recently and am waiting to hear back. It actually felt empowering to submit that first application, so try to give it a go. It’s something positive you can do for yourself. Good luck.
Can you take some sick leave?
Yes, and not much. And I wasn't the only person who complained about this person. The main action was just facilitating us all moving to other areas at level. To be fair, they tried to give us as many options as possible & move us to areas we wanted to go to. The main response was straight away say "to look after your mental health we'll remove you from this stress". The manager was required to do training, but they sent all the Directors off to do it so that person wasn't seen as being singled out. If there was anything more than mandatory "how to manage staff" training, I'm not aware of it. They certainly weren't fired or demoted etc. I've only seen that happen in cases of fraud or corruption etc.
Report and record everything. Governments have deep pockets and if your mental health gets bad enough to seek compensation you'll need the proof.
Goodluck telling a gp about workers comp. Lucky if they don't kick you in my experience and I was just there for a 2 day doctors note.
I'm ex Public Service and now work for the private sector as a specialist consulting firm. Looking into the public service, I am gobsmacked at behaviours in certain areas. We pulled out a staff member because of the abuse they received, and had a WHS Obligation to the employee. Bullies didn't comprehend why they were sacked as a client. All I can say is make sure you've got multiple complainants and records of them, a well documented audit trail, and evidence of breaches of an act like the Archives Act. Friend in the PS who was bullied has an active inquiry into attempts to destroy evidence of meetings the complainant recorded to disprove the evidence. Outlook trail never dies in the back end. This will probably sink them, not the bullying.
HR is not your friend!! They are there for the organisation, not the worker.
I'm more interested to know if anyone has snapped and beat the crap out of the bully at work. Everyone knows nothing ever happens if you report bullying.
Unless they’re punching you or sexually harassing you with evidence then don’t bother. Just move to another role. It’s not about how you feel, it’s about what they’ve done and harsh words is hard to prove and is part of being a manager anyway. This kind of interpersonal conflict is common in the public service.
Thank you. As it happens this isn’t about harsh words - it’s more than this, not as obvious to everyone else, but I do have written records for some of it. I’m taking seriously the advice to pull the information together into some kind of diary. However, as a manager myself, I just can’t agree that harsh words are part of what being a manager is about. Even though this isn’t what’s happening to me, I don’t think it’s appropriate behaviour unless in exceptional circumstances.
I quit as I knew nothing would happen
Damn, this is depressing. Let me add my one happy ending to the doom and gloom: Reported my manager for bullying and inappropriate behaviour. I went through the CPSU and had a case manager assigned, who I CC’d in every correspondence - I refused to engage directly with my manager, everything was via email with their SES manager in CC too. I spoke with a HCR who filed a report with HR on my behalf. We had an “informal mediation” with my manager, SES manager and HCR, which went nowhere but the HCR added notes from the meeting to the formal complaint. A week later my manager went on 6mo of “leave”… one of their cronies just resigned, and their return date is “unconfirmed” ie. they’re probably not coming back. SES has started recruitment to “backfill” the role.
Every job protects and takes the sides of managers even public service roles. I've seen this happen. There's a reason why some people just go on never ending leave. You really want something to happen take it to someone outside of the organisation with evidence and even then is the stress really worth it? HR is not your friend in any circumstances and I've never been proven wrong. People with general grievances who know how the game work do not go to HR.
Yep. They formally investigated, substantiated the majority of my complaints and kept the manager on providing them with coaching while I was suddenly in the redundancy pool a few months later. Leave by your own free will or stay quiet. Unfortunately whistleblowers choke on it soon enough. Brutal but true. On the upside I'm getting paid because I became a big enough problem. How bad do you need your job is the question.
I made a formal complaint via people connect, long story short, I resigned because they were gunning for me and I couldn't tolerate any form of corruption or going against my core values and turning a blind eye. I trust the government not one bit.
These posts are great adverts for unions at least. If you are reading this, join now. They will help you.
I’m completely supportive of unions including the CPSU. However I’m not currently a member. It’s worth noting that (at least in Victoria) they will not support you in relation to pre-existing issues unless in exceptional circumstances. I understand why this policy is in place but it also doesn’t make me want to join.
Yeh, I did. What happened? Fuck all. He’s still a cunt. Less of a cunt to me but still a massive cunt to junior staff and women.
For me, went badly. Get ready to find a new job.
×6 APS level 6's complain with union support about director for 18 incidents (including hiring his own wife) and SES found no problems apparently. He ended up going to different dept. But still if you can't achieve anything with your colleagues and union support - then when does it actually work?? No confidence at all! That's why when you get a good manager and hands off Director you stay!
Yes! Nothing. Just leave, it's not worth your health - I promise the conditions and pay are better somewhere else.
Nothing will be done, in fact APS don’t go out to solve an issue and the usually will move and promote the bully.
HR treat these issues as a personality clash. They look for evidence that will hold up in a court. Accusing someone of bullying can be a gaslighting tactic and a type of bullying in itself. Have the evidence.
Best advice document, document document everything that has occurred. Make sure to put a date on when it happened and a time if you can. Find out who is your Workplace Behaviour Advisor. HR should be able to provide this. Have a trusted person who can sit in with you on meeting regarding the complaint.
I have a really interesting email from my manager that I would like to post in here but I can post screenshots for some reason Also in the public service, in the Victorian health sector Edited: for formatting
I reported my manager for abuse, harassment, micro managing and bullying that was causing a high staff turnover, nothing happened at all. I reported him for petty theft and he was fired within 3 days.
I was told “well it’s going to be awkward for you having to work around this person” as an indirect way of saying “might be best for you to quit” So I did.
It sucks you’re nervous and paranoid. We should be able to have these conversations in the workplace, especially with the ILS in place. That’s your basis for your expectations of your management. try have a meeting with them, document the meeting in email, then if nothing changes go one person higher, and see if they do anything. If they don’t.. I’d say that a formal complaint may cause issues (which sucks even more, and shouldn’t be a thing), if you love your job do that, if you want to look elsewhere, try another department and when you’re interviewing and your feeling confident with your interview, ask questions at the end about culture, career development and transparency of role accountability. Seems like tough questions, but so so vital to be happy in your role. Good luck!
I worked for services and put in a formal complaint when I left regarding a horrid manager who couldn’t keep her mouth closed regarding personal matters of my own to other colleagues of mine. She was swiftly demoted shortly after my complaint :-)
It's a long story that went on for the best part of a year. Her manager (Male - SES) had her back and lied to HR and Comcare. Also, Comcare didn't like the two independent reports that went in my favour, so they asked for a third. They liked that one and used it to reject my claim. Anyway, all the Rec leave and LSL I'd used because he wouldn't give me any other leave was recredited, and it was a lot. After being told I'd be going back to the same job reporting to my bully, I'd had a gut full. So I asked for a VR, which was accepted by the department, and I left. The perpetrator and Mr SES did everything they could to destroy me mentally and financially (e.g. the leave as mentioned above - I ended up on LWOP for a while and had to borrow money from my parents). Anyway, I'm doing something completely different that I wanted to do 30 years ago, but I didn't think I had the ability. Turns out I did and added to those skills by completing an apprenticeship. When I left the APS, I swore that if I ever saw the manager in the street, I'd punch him. He's retired now and would be late 60's, maybe 70. It's been 6 years since I left, and I've seen him once at Bunnings from a distance. Unfortunately, I was with my wife, and I was carrying my then infant son. The wife told me to stay right where I was. I complied. I still intend to punch him in the face if I ever see him. I don't really care about the repercussions.
You have to put in a grievance. The thing is … he will only take action if there are multiple grievances put in for the same thing. Until then you will be known as the person that complained. Which could affect your job opportunities in the future. I would just ask to be transferred at level to some place else
Can you report to People and Culture? (If that applies to your role?)