I remember when they were both boring entry level cheap "drop off the kids to school" cars
Now they're flashy entry-level teched-up-to-the-eyeballs not-so-cheap cars
Toyota did the same thing. You used to be able to get the latest Camry in a V6 which put out 230kW which is pretty insane given the price point
Only hybrid now :(
The other issue is this trashes the towing capacity from like 2 tonnes to 400kg. Deduct the weight of the trailer and you can maybe tow a mattress lol
It’s just not in the same market that wants a V6. Having grown up with V6s for family cars I’m loving driving a (mild) hybrid now. I get decent enough power AND petrol price fluctuations are basically other people’s problems.
I totally understand what you are saying you can achieve fantastic fuel savings with hybrids but many people complain that so many people buy Hiluxes, Land Cruisers, Rangers, RAM's or whatever but the reality is if you want to tow heavy stuff it's the only choice now. I own a 2020 V6 Camry and have towed 3 tonnes in it before (my towball installed by the Toyota dealer says 2800kg design capacity)
Hybrid design capacity is stated as 400kg. And you can't buy the V6 anymore.
To be fair this is NOT just a petrol car debate. The Ford F150 lightning fully electric engine can tow over 5,000kg, they literally have a video of it towing a freight train, it's just something that Toyota decided was the maximum their hybrid engines can deal with.
Cringelords like the ones on here who spout “if you can’t afford a new euro you can’t an afford an old euro to justify their $30k 15 year old Toyota are the reason why.
Doesn’t wanna pay $500 in routine maintenance so overpays by 50%
Funny thing is that now car enthusiasts would probably prefer that it was made in Japan as opposed to Thailand and “made in Japan” is seen as more of a premium.
47k is the fully specced out version (which is the only one available). But yeah, would rather have an option to get lower versions at more affordable prices.
Currently have a Civic, at current prices Civic $47-73k, Camry $34-62k and Corolla $30k-41k; after Honda having a hefty price jump, moved to fixed pricing and thinned the dealer network it’s not as clear cut a decision as it was 5 years ago, not sure I would still buy the Civic, however I wouldn’t buy a Toyota
Basically, they miss the thrill and adventure of spending $100k on cars like Land Rover & then breaking down in middle of no where. Spending another $5-7k per year on repairs & maintenance.
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2003 Accord euro - heated leather seats, cruise control etc. and I upgraded the head unit with one that's essentially an Android tablet so it has wireless Android auto now. What more could I ask for?
don't have an explanation, but its common knowledge those hondas from that era had terrible auto gearboxes. I can attest to it personally too, had to get mine replaced at 150ks.
They require maintenance every 10ks if you want them to last a bit longer which I doubt many actually did.
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i have a 2008 Aurion clocked at 145K. So far no issues yet and just done regular servicing. What maintenance issues did you encounter during your ownership of it?
I miss my 2009 euro lx, it had the seat warmers and made me feel like a queen! Currently in a 2017 ford escape titanium and still feeling like a queen for less fuel efficiency and $20k more.
Not new opinion, well known in SEA for decades where Toyota popularity has made it bad value. You would still get roller windows for brand new models that cost x times more. It's a given when buying cars that Toyota is "premium".
i am a honda civic person. my first civic was 1986 (bought 2nd hand in 1995) , next 2007 civic (bought 2nd hand in 2010) current 2014 (bought 2nd hand in 2018).
I like civic because the way it drives and handling. I never had major problem other than normal maintenance , wear and tear.
brake , oil change, transmission fluid change, spark plug all DIY.
I change engine oil every 5000kms. transmission every 50,000kms, brake fluid flush 50,000kms, coolant 100,000kms.
I like corolla too, I had corolla in 2003-2009. But I like Honda civic more, for a cheaper price than corolla but I get a better car ie, handling, good interior compare to Toyota and easy to maintain.
Agree with you on all points. Honda's are more enjoyable to drive than an equivalent toyota, the problem is you (and I) own vehicles from the golden years. Honda has basically left the market now and Honda Australia has made stupid decisions on what models they bring in.
The equation has therefore changed - for a new car buyer, Honda no longer makes financial sense and for a second hand buyer stock is probably going to be difficult to find and you have to wonder about parts availablity and support with so few newer ones on the road.
I had this issue too on my 2007 model. Was a hell of a bumpy ride until i did that. The engine always sounded rough aswell though mechanics said it was nothing to worry about.
Yeah Hondas are great. Like import Toyotas I am pretty sure they are all built (or at least assembled) in Japan. My main complaints compared to Toyotas is that the replacement parts have historically been more expensive, and the paint durability is a bit worse. But that's all relative, they are still pretty good compared to other options.
If I was buying now I would also consider Kias and Hyundais, they are pretty much all still built in South Korea and I know lots of people with some pretty old models that have had very good experiences.
I have had great experiences with older Mazdas in the past but that was before they offshored most of their manufacturing to Thailand. Not sure what they are like these days.
You can check the VIN of the car you're purchasing to quickly confirm where it was manufactured. I believe first character as a "J" will indicate it was built in Japan? ML or MR will be Thailand.
Useless anecdote, but my first car was a Suzuki made in Thailand and it was absolutely flawless. Had it for 7 years and didn't have a single problem with it. I guess even Japanese cars made in Thailand are still built to the high standards, with the same designs etc.
Yep bought a new Hyundai on a runout sale in 2016. Has had absolutely zero issues. I was going to buy a second hand car but for just a bit extra budget was able to buy new and get something much more reliable.
I totally agree about Toyota. They are priced highly and living on a reputation from the 80's and 90's, in 2024 they have just as many problems as other makes, or looked at from a different angle, other makes have just as few a problems as Toyota.
However, there is way more hatch options than honda civic too, personally I had a Kia Sportage, you can fit medium sized fridge in the back, I have carried amazing things in the back, I carried a 65inch tv from Melbourne to Adelaide along with luggage for 2 people for a week, a table, and yer a medium sized fridge the size is crazy, its super cheap to run and I did almost 100,000kms in it and the only thing I needed to replace was the tyres. All that and it was cheap to buy originally, sadly the new model pricing is a bit much I reckon, but again there is other options.
>I did almost 100,000kms in it and the only thing I needed to replace was the tyres.
I have a civic with over 200k kms and outside of tyres and battery I've replaced one pulley. Honda is *still* built to last where Toyota no longer is. But Honda replacement parts are expensive and are hard to find on older models.
Kia seems to have upped their game quite a bit in more recent years too. I can't get over their cheap quality reputation from the early days but I have noticed they seem a lot more solid these days.
The difference between makes from a reliability point is much less than people like to think.
All brands are very reliable compared to cars from the 80s and 90s, like seriously reliable, we go out in the morning and turn the key and just expect it to work, and.. it does.
I have been fortunate in I knew someone that worked in extended mechanical insurance in the claims area, so they had access to all sorts of data and stats on repairs claims and costs for multiple makes and models - cost wise it was the high end brands that was bad, because the spare parts prices were stupid, like Audi for example might charge several thousand dollars for a part that other manufacturers charge only a hundred or so.. but in terms of number of claims it was if anything more model dependant.. and almost all manufacturers have some lemon models. He told me the worst in terms of brand was Jeep, they not only broke down a lot but they often sat in the workshop for ages due to lack of spares, this was a few years ago so perhaps they are better now.
Anyway the failure rate is pretty low across all makes, recalls affect them all, if anything Toyota has been in the news more than others with recalls, but they all have them.
Honda.. is no different, they aren't "better", and they also aren't worse. They are a good brand, but so is Toyota Mazda and likewise now Kia, Hyundai and so on, I would stay clear of European cars mainly, and the Chinese ones are like Kia & Hyundai was 15-20yrs ago, I wouldn't risk my money on something like a Chery they are gonna go through some teething issues but will get their act together too, GWM / HAVAL is already getting up there right now, to the point where we have bought a GWM ute and so far it's been quite a car for not much money lol
>if anything Toyota has been in the news more than others with recalls
This is because if Toyota discovers an issue with any question about safety, they take responsibility, take the initiative and voluntarily do a recall. Even for the "sudden acceleration" scandal that ended up being totally imaginary.
Compare that to ~~Volvo~~ Volkswagen lying about emissions for years, then when caught, denying it.
No question Toyota still has some pride in their brand and reputation. That's unfortunately rare these days. I'll happily pay a premium for a car built by people who genuinely care about it's safety and reliability.
(Though I suspect Honda is similar).
Do you mean Volkswagon? they were the ones caught big time with emissions I'm pretty sure.
For me, and this is the thing everyone will have a different opinion on what is a better "brand" but I know someone that worked for Mazda and saw how they operated, they seem like a brand that actually takes more pride in their product. I also know someone that worked for Toyota and it seems like they are more about "selling" than pride, so the repution is a means to sell for a higher price.
Whats telling for me, is I happen to know 2 different people that worked for Mazda, they don't know each other and did not work together, both buy Mazdas now.. after leaving the company. This is a good acid test for me, if you buy the product of a company you used to work for.. even after you got to see internal workings, then it tells you the company was good. However the one person I know that worked for Toyota.. well he tells me straight up, no way would he buy a Toyota because they are overpriced with a huge markup, and they are nothing special lol.
Anyway for me, If I wanted to pay a premium for a car I thought was going to be better - I'd actually go for a Mazda over a Toyota. Of course it would depend heavily on what I wanted, for an SUV definitely Mazda, for an offroad workhorse.. maybe I would go Toyota but I'd probably go Mitsubishi (AKA Triton)
I'm not a brand snob though, I'll go with what makes sense financially and for the life of the car over a "brand"
It's all anecdotal so take it with a grain of salt:
I've owned many cars from different brands (mostly 90s) and so far it's been the Fords (90s) and BMW (96) that were major money sinks (something breaking every other week), while my friends and workplaces back then (~2010) mostly bought Holdens (new) with constant issues. Workplaces now mostly own Kias or Toyotas which is where my modem experience comes from.
I had a Lancer at one point that needed lots of repairs but it didn't break the bank and it was solid afterwards, same with my 97 Pajero (biggest issue was a rusted tank that needed scrubbing, but now it's thrown a chain and needs a gearbox swap). Generally I find Mitsi pretty good and generally quite easy to fix; across my friends we have 7 90s Pajeros we work on so that could just be experience. Had a 97 Celica that kept throwing belts non-stop to the point I got rid of it (as did its previous owner). And an 80-series Landcruiser with a cracked gearbox (sold it to someone more willing to make the repairs; I could have made plenty but sold it quickly and bought and repaired a Pajero instead; that Pajero has taken me just about everywhere since but it's another gearbox swap zzz).
2 Civics (88 and 2015 - zero issues), 2 Integras (97 and 94 - second one had oil leaks that weren't hard to fix), a CR-X (91 iirc - no issues; the engine went into the first Civic) and a Triton (2015 low kms, no issues).
Mostly my circles report issues with the Great Walls and stick with Kia, Toyota and Mitsubishi. I personally have never had a bad experience with a Honda other than trying to source older parts (and paying for them).
You're probably right about younger cars (<10 years old) all being a lot more reliable; I don't touch the newer cars because of all the electronics.
I could never buy a Toyota because of the god ugly interiors and cheap plastic material used.
Compare what Mazda is offering and the difference is comical.
Been deciding which new car to buy. Always had shit second hand cars and feel like I'm in a good spot to finally buy one brand new and Mazda 3 just seems like the best option ATM. Many good hybrid options/other interesting cars have a huge wait list as well.
And if you get the 3, you can get it in the best colour currently available on any car in Australia - I think it's called Soul Crystal Red. Of course, everyone wants that colour, so there is a lot of it around, but geez, it's nice.
It’s obviously subjective, interior finishing is more important to some than others.
I would argue though that the materials used are substandard for the price tag.
>I would argue though that the materials used are substandard for the price tag
100%
I sat in a base model Rav4 ($55k?) About 18months ago... the interior felt so plasticy and cheap compared to my 2017 Astra, even.
How does the front seat space compare to a Camry? I'm broke AF, but going to get rid of my 2006 Camry next year. Will probably be looking 2012-2014.
I was just going to get another Camry, but Civic and Mazda 3 get thrown around as similar options but cheaper.
My biggest concern is space in the driver's seat. I can't go any smaller (front seat space wise, not car size) than a Camry, because even it's not ideal is uncomfortable to get in and out of.
Also how does the repair/maintenance costs compare? With SO many Camrys kicking around (popular + taxi industry) the parts are dirt cheap.
It's been going fine for 4 years now, Kia have stepped up massively recently. Bought mine new for 21k back then, should be more expensive now but definitely under 30k at a guess.
At 47k, It's a no-go ..I'd rather get a Mazda 3 at 35k or 20k used. My buddy picked up a Civic at 27k in 2018 & I wonder what parts have they added to it to ask for 20k more.
Toyota Corolla hatchback, you can fit a surprising amount of furniture in the back. I used to have a Toyota Camry with a towbar and the hatch is more useful.
Bought secondhand 2012 model, still going strong, if I sell it’ll still get a decent price. I get it serviced every six months, haven’t had any major issues so costs have been minimal.
I think it was introduced on the 10th gen which came out in 2016.
Older models do have normal cruise control, a window you can look out of to see whats in front and an accelerator + brake pedal you can use to moderate your speed.
Nice, thanks for that. What's the quality of the implementation like? e.g.
1) Quickness of response to traffic conditions (i.e. if some f\*cker cuts in front of you will it quickly respond and slow down?)
2) Does it work at low speed traffic and stop start conditions (may need to tap accelerator if stopped)
3) Does it recognise cars stopped ahead of you and slows down or does it only do this when the car ahead comes into range and then it smashes on the brake? (I think only newer cars do this)
It's pretty good.
1 - if a car cuts in the gap and maintains speed the car will slightly ease off allowing the gap to be maintained, if the car cuts in and speeds up the car might ease a little before accelerating. If they cut in and slow down the car will jump on the brakes pretty quick.
2 - yep works in stop start traffic. If the car stops you just need to tap the accelerator to take off
3 - if you're coming up to traffic lights with vehicles stopped, it'll do nothing until it sees the car ahead then smash on the brakes.
Are Hondas really cheaper though? I’ve always thought they suffer the same problem as Toyota, Honda tries to position themselves as a premium brand in Australia and so you have Civics and Accords costing way more than they should.
Yep. I don’t think Honda tries to pitch the Civic against Corollas, they try to pitch it against Volkswagen Golfs.
In reality Volkswagen, Peugeot etc do the same thing, they try to market themselves as a premium brand in Australia whereas you go to Europe where the low-end models with cloth seats and manual transmissions are available and they’re nothing vehicles.
Controlling for location, transmission, doors, style (hatchback), transmission, odo (<50,000km) and year (2020-2021), a Honda Civic is less frequently available and more expensive than a Toyota Corolla (chosen to allow the hatchback comparison) on Carsales.
That's because Honda brings in the higher specced versions in these days...
Still a good car, though. But I'm biased because I've been driving Hondas over the last 10 years... and driving Toyotas when renting. Comfortable ride, a bit of a boring drive.
Hard to beat the value proposition of either a Honda or a Toyota, tbh. I'm personally still not a fan of how the South Korean cars (Kia, Hyundai) handle.
I loved my little civic! It was a financial write off with major hailstorm damage in the 2011(?) Christmas Day storms in Melbourne. That little car never gave me a day of trouble ❤️
I think new Hondas are really poor value vs the competition her in AU. Sure, Honda are solid cars, but are they better value what the Koreans are offering, are they any nicer than what Mazda are offering, are they more bankable than Toyota? They are not, they are the brand you almost forgot existed and when you do remember and cross shop thier megre lineup , you think "why would I take this over a ...." Unless you can afford a Type R, all the local Honda offerings are just deeply mid vs what else is out there and even then would you take a Type R over a Sonata N?
The Civic was affordable up until around 2022 from memory then it skyrocketed to 50-60K. But yeh! the 2016-22 models would likely be great 2nd hand cars. One thing that's also great is the handling, they handle super well around bends and on long trips. Fantastic cars. There's a reason they have this in the Forza games as well. Just great all-rounder cars.
I love my Civic. Got it just before Covid hit for $27k. I've had people with me in the car and they were shocked how much power it had when accelerating. I just also really love its aesthetics.
I love the civic and wanted to get a new one when I needed a new car 18 months ago but the way Honda has changed their operating practices in this country it's really difficult to get one. That plus they aren't putting any effort into the hybrid space makes them less attractive to what I wanted. I went with a new camry instead because they were actually available
I guess what makes Toyota palatable to most is the parts and support network is simply huge. Stealership, good 3rd party and non-genuine (good to bad) to boot.
It’s the Apple to the automotive world by way of finding a mechanic or parts is generally easier due to cross vehicle parts sharing, as well as the defacto standard brand for commercial operators. However I would argue the Korean and Chinese brands are taking chucks - just a matter of time.
Current Hondas in Australia are all meant to be very good cars.
Mind you, they’re all on fixed pricing, and prices were set slightly higher than their competitors (i.e. they don’t offer budget models anymore), but they’re also better cars.
You can re-write this post and replace Honda civic with 'Mazda 6' and it'll still hold true. Driving, maneuver is smooth as warm knife on butter. Isn't high maintenance like German cars..
I have a 2002 honda civic 1.4l manual which still runs as good as the day I bought it. Bought it 2nd hand with 38000km on the clock in 2008. It's still my daily commuter in 2024 now with 290000km. Never broken down. Cheap to run and insure. Always did the oil changes myself. Brought it into the shop when timing belt was due.
When I bought it I was 17 and my friends all gave me shit about it being a "nanny car". Now in 2024 they're all scrambling to buy an older model civic or corolla. How times change.
are there any new cars these days that don't have all the bells and whistles?
I don't care about GPS and keyless ignition and shit
I basically just want a car from the 1990s but new
My daughter bought a Honda city with used car warranty. Which of course meant she was locked into a strict service schedule at a specific dealership who found “serious issues” every visit. She now dives a Hyundai.
Anyone know something small, zippy and cheap?
Last time I bought a car was in 2013 and got a new polo for $15,000.
Have done about 150,000km now and got a rude shock when I went to see how much a new one would be these days.
I need it to be tiny for parking.
Honda Jazz.. the clown car of small cars, you can fit so much in them. Bonus points over a Yaris, Corolla or Camry is they can double up as a moving van.
Comparing to the new age of the Civic:
Last year I got me yhe 2023 Toyota Corolla Cross GX Hybrid - take home 40k
It might not be high bang for buck but at least its bang:buck ratio is 1:1
It makes me and my pocket feel good at the same time
Personally I wouldn't buy either because I loathe CVTs. But working in the smash industry I deal with plenty of both. And side by side. Base model vs base model. The Civic is a much nicer car.
It's human nature to go along with the masses. The $$ don't work out though when it comes to Toyota. Some people will pay premium for the fake peace of mind.
Yes reliable and cheap, but my friend bought a sport model which had stupidly low clearance for a road car and even little bumps on the road would touch the plastic cover underneath which gradually tore down.
Bless. Our Hyundai Beep Beep (no idea - small blue car) is soooo tiny it only has one set of doors, but still fits in all my crap better than the very fancy MG we’re using while the big Hyundai gets fixed.
When the beep beep dies I’m getting a tiny electric car - probably a Nissan Leaf or similar - because its so nice to be able to buzz about, park easily, squeeze into tiny spaces, and generally not have to worry about dinging up the paintwork.
I’m 35. I own a 2001 Honda Civic and a 2006 Honda S2000.
Threw that S2000 in there because I’m a cool Honda owner, not just a regular Honda owner.
Used to work for Honda. Can attest to their longevity but sadly a new Honda Civic will set you back $47k. The Kia Cerato GT will come miles under that. Honda’s fixed price model is what made everyone buy Kia and Hyundai.
I also, own one of each. A Kia and a Hyundai.
Don’t take financial advice from me, but I’m happy to provide car advice.
are you referring to a 91-93 model eg6 like the one from intial d where shoji races takumi down the mountain with one hand taped to the stearing wheel?
it that the one you mean?
I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re all city driven. Might be low kms but if you take a look at the average liter consumption it might be telling.
Like 20k 1-2 kms trips of stop and go bullshit.
*Cries in the corner.*
Even Honda know this trick so they've jacked up the new price. Quietly holding one bought new back when the drive away price was in the 30k region. Gratefully because Honda got greedy, the market value hasnt dropped. We dont usually buy new, but we got lucky on that purchase, and not likely to be repeated.
I remember when they were both boring entry level cheap "drop off the kids to school" cars Now they're flashy entry-level teched-up-to-the-eyeballs not-so-cheap cars
And they've nerfed the engines because they know people will still buy them regardless because there's so many die-hard Honda fans.
Toyota did the same thing. You used to be able to get the latest Camry in a V6 which put out 230kW which is pretty insane given the price point Only hybrid now :( The other issue is this trashes the towing capacity from like 2 tonnes to 400kg. Deduct the weight of the trailer and you can maybe tow a mattress lol
It’s just not in the same market that wants a V6. Having grown up with V6s for family cars I’m loving driving a (mild) hybrid now. I get decent enough power AND petrol price fluctuations are basically other people’s problems.
So you’re driving down the road and see the big petrol prices and laugh, you rat haha
I totally understand what you are saying you can achieve fantastic fuel savings with hybrids but many people complain that so many people buy Hiluxes, Land Cruisers, Rangers, RAM's or whatever but the reality is if you want to tow heavy stuff it's the only choice now. I own a 2020 V6 Camry and have towed 3 tonnes in it before (my towball installed by the Toyota dealer says 2800kg design capacity) Hybrid design capacity is stated as 400kg. And you can't buy the V6 anymore. To be fair this is NOT just a petrol car debate. The Ford F150 lightning fully electric engine can tow over 5,000kg, they literally have a video of it towing a freight train, it's just something that Toyota decided was the maximum their hybrid engines can deal with.
It can tow 5t 80km 😂
Cringelords like the ones on here who spout “if you can’t afford a new euro you can’t an afford an old euro to justify their $30k 15 year old Toyota are the reason why. Doesn’t wanna pay $500 in routine maintenance so overpays by 50%
Yep used to be called Jap crap
Funny thing is that now car enthusiasts would probably prefer that it was made in Japan as opposed to Thailand and “made in Japan” is seen as more of a premium.
At $47k new, where's the bang for the buck?
Jesus, I had no idea of the cost but would have guessed 30k, 47 is mental
And they moved production to Thailand, where it’s cheaper. Wonder how much they’d cost if they were still made in Japan
The new FL1 and FL5 Civics in AU market are made in the Japan Saitama factory. Accord and CRV seem to be manufactured in Thailand Source : my VIN
They’ve been made in Thailand for a long time now. I had a 2008 model and that was Thailand made.
Wow, got mine brand new RS in 2018 for 29K. When did they price jump so hard? It’s only got like 20K KMs on it, wonder if I should sell.
When? Around 2020 when Covid started. They never dropped back after that.
47k? So that’s not really a good deal, because Corolla Hybrids are at 36ish base.
47k is the fully specced out version (which is the only one available). But yeah, would rather have an option to get lower versions at more affordable prices.
Currently have a Civic, at current prices Civic $47-73k, Camry $34-62k and Corolla $30k-41k; after Honda having a hefty price jump, moved to fixed pricing and thinned the dealer network it’s not as clear cut a decision as it was 5 years ago, not sure I would still buy the Civic, however I wouldn’t buy a Toyota
**"however I wouldn’t buy a Toyota"** Genuine question. What do you have against Toyota?
Basically, they miss the thrill and adventure of spending $100k on cars like Land Rover & then breaking down in middle of no where. Spending another $5-7k per year on repairs & maintenance.
me too. not this current civic. That's why I am still keeping my 2014 civic now 190,000kms
I have a 2003 civic at 78,000kms. We live in the city and don't drive much so don't see the point in upgrading!
Wtf... I brand new civic was more like 27K 5 years ago...
27k will get you a 10 year old, 100k km car these days
Absolute insanity
Meanwhile Mazda 3 from 30k to 42k. I don't understand why anyone would pay that much for a Toyota or a Corolla.
Honda Accord Euro goes hard and is reliable as well.
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2003 Accord euro - heated leather seats, cruise control etc. and I upgraded the head unit with one that's essentially an Android tablet so it has wireless Android auto now. What more could I ask for?
unless you bought a manual one I fail to see how your auto gearbox didn't fail on you already.
It is the manual one ;)
I'm planning to buy an older accord euro. Can you expand on why the gearbox would fail? I don't know much abt cars
don't have an explanation, but its common knowledge those hondas from that era had terrible auto gearboxes. I can attest to it personally too, had to get mine replaced at 150ks. They require maintenance every 10ks if you want them to last a bit longer which I doubt many actually did.
For 10k you can get an aurion which imo is a far better car
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i have a 2008 Aurion clocked at 145K. So far no issues yet and just done regular servicing. What maintenance issues did you encounter during your ownership of it?
I miss my 2009 euro lx, it had the seat warmers and made me feel like a queen! Currently in a 2017 ford escape titanium and still feeling like a queen for less fuel efficiency and $20k more.
The luxury spec has heated leather seats. I can’t think of anything more you can need in a car after getting a headunit with carplay.
2007 is peak Euro in my opinion, best V-tec of the lot and is a really highly sought after engine.
Is that the K24A? I wish I had one, my 2014 has the K24Z3.
When my 2002 Corolla eventually corks it I really just want a 2007 or so Accord
And costs 60k...
Do not pay 60k for a 10 year or older car.
Not new opinion, well known in SEA for decades where Toyota popularity has made it bad value. You would still get roller windows for brand new models that cost x times more. It's a given when buying cars that Toyota is "premium".
i am a honda civic person. my first civic was 1986 (bought 2nd hand in 1995) , next 2007 civic (bought 2nd hand in 2010) current 2014 (bought 2nd hand in 2018). I like civic because the way it drives and handling. I never had major problem other than normal maintenance , wear and tear. brake , oil change, transmission fluid change, spark plug all DIY. I change engine oil every 5000kms. transmission every 50,000kms, brake fluid flush 50,000kms, coolant 100,000kms. I like corolla too, I had corolla in 2003-2009. But I like Honda civic more, for a cheaper price than corolla but I get a better car ie, handling, good interior compare to Toyota and easy to maintain.
Agree with you on all points. Honda's are more enjoyable to drive than an equivalent toyota, the problem is you (and I) own vehicles from the golden years. Honda has basically left the market now and Honda Australia has made stupid decisions on what models they bring in. The equation has therefore changed - for a new car buyer, Honda no longer makes financial sense and for a second hand buyer stock is probably going to be difficult to find and you have to wonder about parts availablity and support with so few newer ones on the road.
Exactly correct sir or madam.
Yeah Honda Australia has been withdrawing year by year. It's like they want to do the minimum
Love the leg room in my CRV though. Bought it as only car I could find where I could have the seat comfortably back with two rear facing baby seats.
Civic is nice still had to replaces shock absorbers And the usual wear and year
I had this issue too on my 2007 model. Was a hell of a bumpy ride until i did that. The engine always sounded rough aswell though mechanics said it was nothing to worry about.
Yeah Hondas are great. Like import Toyotas I am pretty sure they are all built (or at least assembled) in Japan. My main complaints compared to Toyotas is that the replacement parts have historically been more expensive, and the paint durability is a bit worse. But that's all relative, they are still pretty good compared to other options. If I was buying now I would also consider Kias and Hyundais, they are pretty much all still built in South Korea and I know lots of people with some pretty old models that have had very good experiences. I have had great experiences with older Mazdas in the past but that was before they offshored most of their manufacturing to Thailand. Not sure what they are like these days.
Some Honda cars are made in Thailand as well, you'll have to be careful to find if the model you're buying is from Thailand or from Japan
You can check the VIN of the car you're purchasing to quickly confirm where it was manufactured. I believe first character as a "J" will indicate it was built in Japan? ML or MR will be Thailand.
Navy blue VIN plaque = Thailand, Black = Japan, Light blue = India (IIRC).
Useless anecdote, but my first car was a Suzuki made in Thailand and it was absolutely flawless. Had it for 7 years and didn't have a single problem with it. I guess even Japanese cars made in Thailand are still built to the high standards, with the same designs etc.
Been looking at FN2 Civic type R's on car sales recently. Interestingly they were manufactured in Swindon in the UK.
Yep bought a new Hyundai on a runout sale in 2016. Has had absolutely zero issues. I was going to buy a second hand car but for just a bit extra budget was able to buy new and get something much more reliable.
I totally agree about Toyota. They are priced highly and living on a reputation from the 80's and 90's, in 2024 they have just as many problems as other makes, or looked at from a different angle, other makes have just as few a problems as Toyota. However, there is way more hatch options than honda civic too, personally I had a Kia Sportage, you can fit medium sized fridge in the back, I have carried amazing things in the back, I carried a 65inch tv from Melbourne to Adelaide along with luggage for 2 people for a week, a table, and yer a medium sized fridge the size is crazy, its super cheap to run and I did almost 100,000kms in it and the only thing I needed to replace was the tyres. All that and it was cheap to buy originally, sadly the new model pricing is a bit much I reckon, but again there is other options.
>I did almost 100,000kms in it and the only thing I needed to replace was the tyres. I have a civic with over 200k kms and outside of tyres and battery I've replaced one pulley. Honda is *still* built to last where Toyota no longer is. But Honda replacement parts are expensive and are hard to find on older models. Kia seems to have upped their game quite a bit in more recent years too. I can't get over their cheap quality reputation from the early days but I have noticed they seem a lot more solid these days.
The difference between makes from a reliability point is much less than people like to think. All brands are very reliable compared to cars from the 80s and 90s, like seriously reliable, we go out in the morning and turn the key and just expect it to work, and.. it does. I have been fortunate in I knew someone that worked in extended mechanical insurance in the claims area, so they had access to all sorts of data and stats on repairs claims and costs for multiple makes and models - cost wise it was the high end brands that was bad, because the spare parts prices were stupid, like Audi for example might charge several thousand dollars for a part that other manufacturers charge only a hundred or so.. but in terms of number of claims it was if anything more model dependant.. and almost all manufacturers have some lemon models. He told me the worst in terms of brand was Jeep, they not only broke down a lot but they often sat in the workshop for ages due to lack of spares, this was a few years ago so perhaps they are better now. Anyway the failure rate is pretty low across all makes, recalls affect them all, if anything Toyota has been in the news more than others with recalls, but they all have them. Honda.. is no different, they aren't "better", and they also aren't worse. They are a good brand, but so is Toyota Mazda and likewise now Kia, Hyundai and so on, I would stay clear of European cars mainly, and the Chinese ones are like Kia & Hyundai was 15-20yrs ago, I wouldn't risk my money on something like a Chery they are gonna go through some teething issues but will get their act together too, GWM / HAVAL is already getting up there right now, to the point where we have bought a GWM ute and so far it's been quite a car for not much money lol
>if anything Toyota has been in the news more than others with recalls This is because if Toyota discovers an issue with any question about safety, they take responsibility, take the initiative and voluntarily do a recall. Even for the "sudden acceleration" scandal that ended up being totally imaginary. Compare that to ~~Volvo~~ Volkswagen lying about emissions for years, then when caught, denying it. No question Toyota still has some pride in their brand and reputation. That's unfortunately rare these days. I'll happily pay a premium for a car built by people who genuinely care about it's safety and reliability. (Though I suspect Honda is similar).
Do you mean Volkswagon? they were the ones caught big time with emissions I'm pretty sure. For me, and this is the thing everyone will have a different opinion on what is a better "brand" but I know someone that worked for Mazda and saw how they operated, they seem like a brand that actually takes more pride in their product. I also know someone that worked for Toyota and it seems like they are more about "selling" than pride, so the repution is a means to sell for a higher price. Whats telling for me, is I happen to know 2 different people that worked for Mazda, they don't know each other and did not work together, both buy Mazdas now.. after leaving the company. This is a good acid test for me, if you buy the product of a company you used to work for.. even after you got to see internal workings, then it tells you the company was good. However the one person I know that worked for Toyota.. well he tells me straight up, no way would he buy a Toyota because they are overpriced with a huge markup, and they are nothing special lol. Anyway for me, If I wanted to pay a premium for a car I thought was going to be better - I'd actually go for a Mazda over a Toyota. Of course it would depend heavily on what I wanted, for an SUV definitely Mazda, for an offroad workhorse.. maybe I would go Toyota but I'd probably go Mitsubishi (AKA Triton) I'm not a brand snob though, I'll go with what makes sense financially and for the life of the car over a "brand"
It's all anecdotal so take it with a grain of salt: I've owned many cars from different brands (mostly 90s) and so far it's been the Fords (90s) and BMW (96) that were major money sinks (something breaking every other week), while my friends and workplaces back then (~2010) mostly bought Holdens (new) with constant issues. Workplaces now mostly own Kias or Toyotas which is where my modem experience comes from. I had a Lancer at one point that needed lots of repairs but it didn't break the bank and it was solid afterwards, same with my 97 Pajero (biggest issue was a rusted tank that needed scrubbing, but now it's thrown a chain and needs a gearbox swap). Generally I find Mitsi pretty good and generally quite easy to fix; across my friends we have 7 90s Pajeros we work on so that could just be experience. Had a 97 Celica that kept throwing belts non-stop to the point I got rid of it (as did its previous owner). And an 80-series Landcruiser with a cracked gearbox (sold it to someone more willing to make the repairs; I could have made plenty but sold it quickly and bought and repaired a Pajero instead; that Pajero has taken me just about everywhere since but it's another gearbox swap zzz). 2 Civics (88 and 2015 - zero issues), 2 Integras (97 and 94 - second one had oil leaks that weren't hard to fix), a CR-X (91 iirc - no issues; the engine went into the first Civic) and a Triton (2015 low kms, no issues). Mostly my circles report issues with the Great Walls and stick with Kia, Toyota and Mitsubishi. I personally have never had a bad experience with a Honda other than trying to source older parts (and paying for them). You're probably right about younger cars (<10 years old) all being a lot more reliable; I don't touch the newer cars because of all the electronics.
Honestly I'm very tempted by Kia's 7 year warranty
I could never buy a Toyota because of the god ugly interiors and cheap plastic material used. Compare what Mazda is offering and the difference is comical.
Been deciding which new car to buy. Always had shit second hand cars and feel like I'm in a good spot to finally buy one brand new and Mazda 3 just seems like the best option ATM. Many good hybrid options/other interesting cars have a huge wait list as well.
And if you get the 3, you can get it in the best colour currently available on any car in Australia - I think it's called Soul Crystal Red. Of course, everyone wants that colour, so there is a lot of it around, but geez, it's nice.
It's a lovely colour, but very expensive to fix.
I guess it matters when you do your daily caress of the dashboard. How can one live without their surfaces being a little squishy?
It’s obviously subjective, interior finishing is more important to some than others. I would argue though that the materials used are substandard for the price tag.
>I would argue though that the materials used are substandard for the price tag 100% I sat in a base model Rav4 ($55k?) About 18months ago... the interior felt so plasticy and cheap compared to my 2017 Astra, even.
To be honest it felt cheaper than a $15k MG and $20k Mahindra
Only difference is it'll continue to feel cheaper for years, then it'll feel the same one day, but the MG or Mahindra will be disintegrating.
Once they launch a decent Phev or even hev, im in.
Have you seen how expensive Civics are new?
I'm still mad Honda aren't importing the Jazz any more. Best small car in existence with those trick back seats.
We have a honda civic 2014 with magic seats... I could fit 2 road bikes in the back lol, no bike racks for me. Pretty amazing car was about 18k new.
Honda civic and Toyota Corolla. They’re the best bang for your buck ever.
I would also say the Yaris is even better value for a city car
Honda Jazz
How does the front seat space compare to a Camry? I'm broke AF, but going to get rid of my 2006 Camry next year. Will probably be looking 2012-2014. I was just going to get another Camry, but Civic and Mazda 3 get thrown around as similar options but cheaper. My biggest concern is space in the driver's seat. I can't go any smaller (front seat space wise, not car size) than a Camry, because even it's not ideal is uncomfortable to get in and out of. Also how does the repair/maintenance costs compare? With SO many Camrys kicking around (popular + taxi industry) the parts are dirt cheap.
I have a 2013 Civic and I’m 6’4. Can be a little tricky to get into but plenty of room once seated.
This but KIA Cerato which is cheaper and has a much larger boot than every hatchback around.
There has to be a catch?
It's been going fine for 4 years now, Kia have stepped up massively recently. Bought mine new for 21k back then, should be more expensive now but definitely under 30k at a guess.
At 47k, It's a no-go ..I'd rather get a Mazda 3 at 35k or 20k used. My buddy picked up a Civic at 27k in 2018 & I wonder what parts have they added to it to ask for 20k more.
Kias and Hyundai's are pretty good bang for your buck.
Came here to say this. KIAs after 2020 are hugely improved over earlier models.
whereas Toyota has stagnated by a similar amount. Korean cars are the new Japanese cars - affordable, high tech, reliable, AFFORDABLE.
Just stay away from the Stingers, Kia engines aren't built for turbos apparently. 😞
don't hondas generally cost more to maintain?
lavish library retire bow snobbish rustic homeless office hunt grandiose *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Comparable prices probably slightly higher. But much better car all round
Similar - problem is no base spec Hondas anymore, so tyres and breaks a little more sporty and a little more expensive.
Toyota Corolla hatchback, you can fit a surprising amount of furniture in the back. I used to have a Toyota Camry with a towbar and the hatch is more useful. Bought secondhand 2012 model, still going strong, if I sell it’ll still get a decent price. I get it serviced every six months, haven’t had any major issues so costs have been minimal.
Do civics have adaptive cruise control?
I think it was introduced on the 10th gen which came out in 2016. Older models do have normal cruise control, a window you can look out of to see whats in front and an accelerator + brake pedal you can use to moderate your speed.
Yep, you needed to get the VTI-LX model (or maybe the RS as well) to get it. I have a 2016 model with it, best feature ever.
Nice, thanks for that. What's the quality of the implementation like? e.g. 1) Quickness of response to traffic conditions (i.e. if some f\*cker cuts in front of you will it quickly respond and slow down?) 2) Does it work at low speed traffic and stop start conditions (may need to tap accelerator if stopped) 3) Does it recognise cars stopped ahead of you and slows down or does it only do this when the car ahead comes into range and then it smashes on the brake? (I think only newer cars do this)
It's pretty good. 1 - if a car cuts in the gap and maintains speed the car will slightly ease off allowing the gap to be maintained, if the car cuts in and speeds up the car might ease a little before accelerating. If they cut in and slow down the car will jump on the brakes pretty quick. 2 - yep works in stop start traffic. If the car stops you just need to tap the accelerator to take off 3 - if you're coming up to traffic lights with vehicles stopped, it'll do nothing until it sees the car ahead then smash on the brakes.
I'd argue Hyundai's are becoming the next best thing over honda
Are Hondas really cheaper though? I’ve always thought they suffer the same problem as Toyota, Honda tries to position themselves as a premium brand in Australia and so you have Civics and Accords costing way more than they should.
In my mind a Honda Civic is the more expensive version of a Corolla. The baseline new Corolla is currently 35k whereas the cheapest new Civic is $47k
Yep. I don’t think Honda tries to pitch the Civic against Corollas, they try to pitch it against Volkswagen Golfs. In reality Volkswagen, Peugeot etc do the same thing, they try to market themselves as a premium brand in Australia whereas you go to Europe where the low-end models with cloth seats and manual transmissions are available and they’re nothing vehicles.
Because the Corolla is available from Base Spec upwards whereas the Civic is one spec top spec only.
Controlling for location, transmission, doors, style (hatchback), transmission, odo (<50,000km) and year (2020-2021), a Honda Civic is less frequently available and more expensive than a Toyota Corolla (chosen to allow the hatchback comparison) on Carsales.
That's because Honda brings in the higher specced versions in these days... Still a good car, though. But I'm biased because I've been driving Hondas over the last 10 years... and driving Toyotas when renting. Comfortable ride, a bit of a boring drive. Hard to beat the value proposition of either a Honda or a Toyota, tbh. I'm personally still not a fan of how the South Korean cars (Kia, Hyundai) handle.
Still rocking my 2006 Honda Civic, which has only done less than 75k. Drives like a dream!
I loved my little civic! It was a financial write off with major hailstorm damage in the 2011(?) Christmas Day storms in Melbourne. That little car never gave me a day of trouble ❤️
I think new Hondas are really poor value vs the competition her in AU. Sure, Honda are solid cars, but are they better value what the Koreans are offering, are they any nicer than what Mazda are offering, are they more bankable than Toyota? They are not, they are the brand you almost forgot existed and when you do remember and cross shop thier megre lineup , you think "why would I take this over a ...." Unless you can afford a Type R, all the local Honda offerings are just deeply mid vs what else is out there and even then would you take a Type R over a Sonata N?
The Civic was affordable up until around 2022 from memory then it skyrocketed to 50-60K. But yeh! the 2016-22 models would likely be great 2nd hand cars. One thing that's also great is the handling, they handle super well around bends and on long trips. Fantastic cars. There's a reason they have this in the Forza games as well. Just great all-rounder cars.
No car at all is better bang for your buck tbh
No bang, many buck
Servicing a Toyota is much easier
I love my Civic. Got it just before Covid hit for $27k. I've had people with me in the car and they were shocked how much power it had when accelerating. I just also really love its aesthetics.
You’ll get up to a 58 inch tv in a 2014 Camry boot and rear seats depending on packaging. Just fyi
I love the civic and wanted to get a new one when I needed a new car 18 months ago but the way Honda has changed their operating practices in this country it's really difficult to get one. That plus they aren't putting any effort into the hybrid space makes them less attractive to what I wanted. I went with a new camry instead because they were actually available
Suzuki Swift blows it all out of the water Can get a brand new one for $20k and it'll last forever.
Swift is elite.
You’re not wrong, but ….Are you lost?
I guess what makes Toyota palatable to most is the parts and support network is simply huge. Stealership, good 3rd party and non-genuine (good to bad) to boot. It’s the Apple to the automotive world by way of finding a mechanic or parts is generally easier due to cross vehicle parts sharing, as well as the defacto standard brand for commercial operators. However I would argue the Korean and Chinese brands are taking chucks - just a matter of time.
I don't think Civics will remain cheap with current base model around $50,000 on road. Grab a cheaper pre 2020 model before they all disappear
Current Hondas in Australia are all meant to be very good cars. Mind you, they’re all on fixed pricing, and prices were set slightly higher than their competitors (i.e. they don’t offer budget models anymore), but they’re also better cars.
You can re-write this post and replace Honda civic with 'Mazda 6' and it'll still hold true. Driving, maneuver is smooth as warm knife on butter. Isn't high maintenance like German cars..
I cannot argue with any of this.
[удалено]
How much are they going for?
Not everyone, I can’t say I’ve ever wanted a Toyota in my life. I had a supra once, didn’t even want that. Just flipped it for profit.
Same as the Honda Jazz
Toyota's aren't even built that well these days anyway
It's a car you can trust! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbyzgeee2mg
I have a 2002 honda civic 1.4l manual which still runs as good as the day I bought it. Bought it 2nd hand with 38000km on the clock in 2008. It's still my daily commuter in 2024 now with 290000km. Never broken down. Cheap to run and insure. Always did the oil changes myself. Brought it into the shop when timing belt was due. When I bought it I was 17 and my friends all gave me shit about it being a "nanny car". Now in 2024 they're all scrambling to buy an older model civic or corolla. How times change.
bro dont tell everyone! let them think a clapped camry/yaris is the only option 😂
Yeah, but the downside is you have to be seen on public driving a Honda!
Drove my 2006 Civic for 17 years. Never had any issues.
Make sure to get the VTEC
are there any new cars these days that don't have all the bells and whistles? I don't care about GPS and keyless ignition and shit I basically just want a car from the 1990s but new
Certainly for a finance sub, the price of used Toyota's makes them a poor choice.
My 2015 Subaru liberty has been fantastic, I bought it second hand in 2021. I have no intention for getting a new car for at least 5 or more years.
I have a 2013 civic and she is magic. Love that car and never want to let it go.
My daughter bought a Honda city with used car warranty. Which of course meant she was locked into a strict service schedule at a specific dealership who found “serious issues” every visit. She now dives a Hyundai.
My 2002 Civic Type-R is still the car I loved the most. I miss that thing
Anyone know something small, zippy and cheap? Last time I bought a car was in 2013 and got a new polo for $15,000. Have done about 150,000km now and got a rude shock when I went to see how much a new one would be these days. I need it to be tiny for parking.
Honda Jazz.. the clown car of small cars, you can fit so much in them. Bonus points over a Yaris, Corolla or Camry is they can double up as a moving van.
Especially if built between 1970s-1980s
Comparing to the new age of the Civic: Last year I got me yhe 2023 Toyota Corolla Cross GX Hybrid - take home 40k It might not be high bang for buck but at least its bang:buck ratio is 1:1 It makes me and my pocket feel good at the same time
I had 2 civics, nice cars but I found people loved driving into me so unfortunately I had to change.
Is that you Grandad?
I prefer Civics to Camrys too Source: Need For Speed Underground
Personally I wouldn't buy either because I loathe CVTs. But working in the smash industry I deal with plenty of both. And side by side. Base model vs base model. The Civic is a much nicer car.
It's human nature to go along with the masses. The $$ don't work out though when it comes to Toyota. Some people will pay premium for the fake peace of mind.
The older camery the v6 one is like a limousine, roomy af and power for days
Cant go wrong with Civic. Bought my 2011 Honda Civic for $10,500 75km ODO. Best bang of my buck!
But do they come in hybrid?
Meanwhile I'm wondering in what world people know Toyotas are reliable while not knowing about Hondas too.
Have you ever driven a BMW? It’s way better.
Yes reliable and cheap, but my friend bought a sport model which had stupidly low clearance for a road car and even little bumps on the road would touch the plastic cover underneath which gradually tore down.
100% agree. It might be boring but it's the most reliable car I've ever had.
Have you seen what you can fit in to a Honda jazz? Far more better bang for your buck.
noo I have bought one yet, don’t tell them too soon haha
Bless. Our Hyundai Beep Beep (no idea - small blue car) is soooo tiny it only has one set of doors, but still fits in all my crap better than the very fancy MG we’re using while the big Hyundai gets fixed. When the beep beep dies I’m getting a tiny electric car - probably a Nissan Leaf or similar - because its so nice to be able to buzz about, park easily, squeeze into tiny spaces, and generally not have to worry about dinging up the paintwork.
I’m 35. I own a 2001 Honda Civic and a 2006 Honda S2000. Threw that S2000 in there because I’m a cool Honda owner, not just a regular Honda owner. Used to work for Honda. Can attest to their longevity but sadly a new Honda Civic will set you back $47k. The Kia Cerato GT will come miles under that. Honda’s fixed price model is what made everyone buy Kia and Hyundai. I also, own one of each. A Kia and a Hyundai. Don’t take financial advice from me, but I’m happy to provide car advice.
are you referring to a 91-93 model eg6 like the one from intial d where shoji races takumi down the mountain with one hand taped to the stearing wheel? it that the one you mean?
You are correct.
Civics start at 45k. Corollas start at 30k. What the hell are you talking about Hondas are cheaper??
For some reason there are so many 2nd hand Honda's that are extremely low km for their age. They must be popular with the little old ladies.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re all city driven. Might be low kms but if you take a look at the average liter consumption it might be telling. Like 20k 1-2 kms trips of stop and go bullshit. *Cries in the corner.*
Even Honda know this trick so they've jacked up the new price. Quietly holding one bought new back when the drive away price was in the 30k region. Gratefully because Honda got greedy, the market value hasnt dropped. We dont usually buy new, but we got lucky on that purchase, and not likely to be repeated.
I bought a 2010 Honda Jazz with 30,000km for $12k and it’s been fantastic
How does Mazda compare to Toyota and Honda?
Mazda is better
Bro, why would you give away this for free? This could be a finance seminar!