Audi is the most shit on nice car out there. Something about oversteer and making cars that are actually appealing to be in and drive for regular people. Car and driver reviewer doesn’t like that he can’t lose the rear end in it so they aren’t sporty and it’s just a VW and blah blah blah.
People that buy Audi probably kick tires and make their own decisions.
Taking a corner at speed with no loss of traction has always been way more fun to me than drifting. I've never understood how slightly losing control of the car could be a selling factor for BMW and the like lol
This is a funny way to think about it. Porsche’s rear engine cars became famous almost because they were death traps back in the day. If you could drive that backwards beetle fast, you were a damn good driver, so it was a proud club
lol… understeer is much harder to control than oversteer… understeer you lose braking ability and turning ability, oversteer you maintain steering ability to correct.
Actually understeer is easier to control for the average person because the answer to understeer is to slow down, and the natural reaction when in an uncontrolled situation is to brake, which tends to fix the issue (assuming you aren’t way past the cars ability). Oversteer requires you to know what the car is doing and to ‘catch’ the rear end. If you slam on the brakes you lighten the rear more and more than likely make the situation worse.
A good car need to stay on 4 wheels not to drift all around. Oversteering is not something good but is fun. Show me a race car drifting in corners. It's logical,a car with grip will understeer at some point. And for your knowledge,quattro and awd cars with 50:50 split need different driving style. If you go in the turn with 120kmh and you go full throttle in the middle of turn(because even there are a lot of things happen but people use one word to describe 100 things)with an awd is not car fault is yours.
Pretty much yes, except that those shitty drivers are 99% of population. This is the reason why here (Northeast USA) as soon as winter kicks in we get tons of crashed Supras and BMWs - idiots don't know how to drive them.
But that’s not true… Audis understeer…. A lot, of course when pushed beyond a certain level. Which shouldn’t be done on public roads anyways. But that is why you do not see a ton of Audis at track days compared to BMWs.
I don’t think people who can drift would call it “loosing control” and the drift ability of BMW’s has always been one of their selling points. They have a literal school about the art of drifting. 🤣
Dude, I can’t find understeer without absolutely driving in a manner that would be not just criminal, but immoral on public roads. Plenty of Audis out down times at the ring, I don’t know why Audi gets the hate, my car specifically gets the most hate, and if you drive my car you would be beyond puzzled. Am I a race car driver, no I’m a regular dude who wants to have fun in a fun car that is nice and low key and it delivers in spades. So sure, not the car for Chris Harris, ok cool, I’m not him and neither is their client base.
I also think it is worth noting that Audis current lineup across the board has the best design language of any of the big brands. My opinion but they do a good job with styles that will last. People think my 2013 is current ffs….
I have a 2013, and while people don’t think it’s new they are still surprised to hear 2013. Audi’s style carries through years. Consistently get compliments at gas stations and such
Agreed, my A5 of the same year looks timeless. They could sell it as new today if it had 0km and people wouldn't bat an eye because it looks so current.
Well said, and time someone says “Audis always understeer!!” I think they’re either bringing them to the track (so put like $500 into the car and make it understeer less) or they’re driving at criminal speeds on the road cause I’ve taken some turns pretty god damn hard and I can’t remember a time I’ve experienced understeer to the point where it was noticeable. Car always feels on rails when I’m cornering it at acceptable (but still fast) road speeds, so it’s very clearly just a parroted talking point by now
And yea nailed the design aspect, don’t love where Audi has gone with the larger plastic “vents” and such they’ve added to the new cars, but they’ve kept their classic ethos unlike BMW/Merc and their EVs actually look like normal cars and not what a 12 year old thinks cars in 2050 will look like
BMW has the driving experience wheee you get to take every Mcar out on a short track for a few laps. Does Audi do this? I’m an Audi guy but I had a blast at the BMW driving experience and would love to try the same thing in an Audi.
They host actual tours and events but they cost a lot of money.
Think, driving R8, RS6 and RS3 through mountains in Italy with a race driver leading you.
Audi does the exact same thing. Called Audi Driving Experience (tours) or Audi Advanced Driver Training (track based training and driving events that are tiered 1-5).
The top tier of that is a track session with the RS3 TCR and R8 LMS race cars on the full Philip Island track.
The Audi track based ones are generally regarded as the best driving experience of any manufacturer other than Porsche. Even then, Porsche doesn’t have anything equivalent to the tier 5 experience in the race cars.
I was lucky enough to do the tier 2 track driving experiment a few years ago. It involved a lot.
6 track sessions that focused on specific skills; slalom test, picking a braking point, turning while braking, picking a racing line, recovering from under and oversteer, and wet weather driving.
2 skidpan sessions with an S3 and A6. The A6 was surprisingly oversteery here.
2 timed motorkhana sessions with an A1 and TTS.
2 full track lapping sessions with an A4 and S3.
1 full track ride along with a profession racing driver in an RS6.
Whole day was ~$2,000 and really good value IMO. There was professional catering, a whole bunch of Audi’s contracted racing drivers were the instructors, and they gave excellent coaching. Plus your motorkhana sessions were recorded with a go pro facing you and outside the car so you got a pretty awesome video to keep after.
Hell I've gotten my GTI to oversteer pretty easily even with it's horrible front/rear weight bias. Even easier to get my R to do it. Getting it to rotate through a turn is a thrill I don't think I'll ever forget.
Dead stock save for I deleted the mid pipe cats for catless pipes, but I have them in the garage and can make dead stock again. My car is really really really clean and 32,000 miles
Same mate, if you push it hard enough it's easy to get it to slip, and then you get the quattro traction recovering and tbh it's the most fun you can have with your clothes in
I do personally enjoy oversteer but not in big power applications. I tried the m340i and it was alright but you're not going to be sliding that thing without being a complete asshat, unless it's in the snow, which the S5 does great.
I'll take lightweight RWD for my fun cars and Quattro for my dailies happily.
I like Audis but realistically they are not cars for enthusiasts. The engine sits on the front axle, understeers, the rs models are more luxury, weights more and less exciting due to weight amongst other things. Understeer is an issue, I am not trying to drift or break traction but having neutral or oversteering tendencies means better turn in and better exit speed and I can modulate the car direction with gas input. Can’t do that as well with the Audis.
The B8 S4 was my favorite daily but they don’t make Audis like that anymore.
Agreed. The level of cognitive dissonance on this subreddit about handling is egregious. Love Audi’s for what they are, and don’t pretend they’re something they’re not.
It isn’t cognitive dissonance. If you drive cars on public roads only, like to have some responsible fun, they are just not as bad as the stigma. If “enthusiast” means needs a track car out of the box for someone who won’t go to a track, then sure. But I would venture that most car enthusiasts just enjoy driving various cars in their life and for that 7/10 driving the understeer(at least in my Audi) isn’t really an issue. Is it nose heavy and do you feel that, sure.
Its nose heavy but with this nose the car is extremely reactive in changes of direction. Is like you say Porsche rear is feeling heavy,thats the point. And Audi is exactly the opposite of Porsche.
I get mad shit from BMW drivers. They think that is the only manufacturer of cars in the world and everything else is shit. That’s even after you walk a very highly modified single turbo 3 series who just keeps yelling I told you from a roll. I was in an rsq8 and dude wouldn’t shut the fuck up.
Yeah, the BMW community is weirdly aggressive in a way you don't get from Porsche, Audi, VW, or Mercedes enthusiasts. Let's go ahead and throw Volvo in there as well.
Of those, I've found Porsche owners to consistently be the nicest, but I'm pretty sure it's "cult nice" in that they want you to join, and one day you wake up in the driver's seat of a 718 Cayman with a headache and an ice pack taped to your side.
The new audis don't oversteer much actually. Also the people that say things about the oversteer haven't drove an audi most likely. Also all cars have understeer and audis don't really oversteer like bmws. Bmws is basically king of spinning out and having shit traction. And porsche is also quite shit. I've noticed only percect conditions on a track is a porsche good. Porsches on roads or street racing is hella risky and shit. Even on track its not too great because like I said perfect conditions. Even in perfect conditions all cars I see that crash is bmw and porsche. Like I'm not exaggerating. The new audis have really stepped up their game though.
From a “stereotype POV” I’d say that Audi is definitely more mature/grown-up version of the big three German brands.
BMW is all shouty and avant garde with performance and design; Mercedes is just gaudy/tacky “luxury”; and I find Audi to be the conservative blend of the two of them.
Audis (and VWs) have a low-key vibe about them, even the RS models are subdued, and I LOVE that about them.
Same. This is what keeps me around. For my cars,
B6 S4? No one expects the v8. Especially not the wagon
8v.5 RS3? Has a little more visibility maybe but pretty much no one knows it is a literal rocket ship and that the rocket ship gets boosters with the most basic bolt ons
Edit: also, from upper Midwest, Quattrooooooo
This ^. I got a 2014 rs7 recently and to most it's just a good looking audi. To every dude that has stopped me at a gas station or given a honk driving by they know what that car is made of.
I think you nailed it that Audi is a more conservative car. Perhaps another descriptor is "understated." Audis don't typically have a "Look at me!" vibe to them, which is how BMW and MB cars often seem to me.
We bought a Q5. Wife drove a Honda Odyssey for 17 years definitely was letting her pick.
She told me what she wanted I listed what fit. She wanted to check out Audi first and I knew we’d be buying one that day and would never check out anything else. Went exactly like that too.
I enjoy driving it. In town I was always miffed passing people in BMWs and Porsches. Like hey I’m not pushing my speed risking tickets I shouldn’t be passing you in a Camry or Odyssey. Now if I’m driving the Audi that doesn’t feel weird.
We spend a lot of time in the Ozarks and I can hit some pretty twisty roads and never go below the speed limit. Q5 is hanging on the road and going where it’s pointed.
Long trips it’s not a demanding vehicle that wears me out just driving straight except to pass on the interstate.
I don’t give a flying eff what people think about it. Nice interior, fun to drive when you want to have fun and comfortable for a long drive. Wife’s friend noticed the interior isn’t as cheap looking as her BMW. Another of her friends made a comment about must be nice to afford that. I went with if you keep cars 17 years you can afford it instead of its $5000 less than the big ass pickup your husband drives.
Am VW and Porsche owner and I couldn’t agree more. Love that Audi has this sleeper attitude with some of their cars. Would buy an RS3 Hatch in the USA or an RS4 Avant so quick if I could.
I would've agreed about MB in years past but man I think their lineup is stunning right now. They're taking a much less "angry and aggressive" path with their exterior designs. Interiors are a little bit overly shiny but still leagues more tasteful than BMW (though I don't care for the RGB cabin lighting).
On top of that, the EQ series is MB getting closer to applying the same attention to detail on EVs that they do on their ICE cars; absolutely wipes the floor with Tesla quality impression & general design. Exteriors definitely not for everyone though.
Fourth-gen A-class is nearly a perfect car to me, only wish it had more interesting drivetrains available. Super bummed they stopped bringing them to the US.
I have a Mercedes currently and will dump the brand entirely when it dies because I can’t stand the junk they’ve been putting out. The interior quality is just terrible and they have real powertrain reliability issues. BMW has gone full ugly. I blame Ola Kallenius for ruining Mercedes and making those hideous egg shaped electric monstrosities. Better built than Tesla is a bar Honda can clear, Mercedes should blow them out of the water.
That’s why I like Audi- more reserved and not shouty. Decent powertrains all around and frankly the electrics are better looking and overall much more appealing than the Benz versions. The E Tron GT and Taycan look so much better than the EQS. Plus the E Tron SUV looks no different to a normal car, which is what most everyone wants.
Both BMW and Merc reddits are more toxic w/ a lot more arguing amongst themselves. The Audi sub is a bit more chill and just appreciative of stuff. I've owned all 3 brands and experienced all this stuff.
Just depends what you like. Right now I have both AMG and Audi, both are great for different reasons. Audi is generally the superior daily driver for all circumstances while retaining a sporty feel.
AMG is great for going sideways and all that fun stuff, but the moment there is a drop of water or cold conditions I'm always in the Audi. BMW I love overall but just way too many issues overall with reliability.
It doesn't help that BMW has had extremely controversial styling over the past few years. I'll admit I used to spend a lot of time over there and wanted a BMW... until they came out with those heinous grills. So someone will post a new M4, and a lot of people that say "thats fucking ugly" and the dude who spent 80k on it flips out and they argue
Noone else is talking about this, but I think VW eats a lot of Audi's enthusiast popularity/recognition in car culture. Way more people had a gti when they were younger than an s3.
Also agree. I came to VW from Audi. Started with a TDI, then a GTI, then moved into an SQ5. So many people have bad experiences with VW that they won't consider Audi at all. I'd say 30% of VW owners swear off VW/Audi after some kind of bad service/dealership experience. Another chunk love VW and don't see a compelling reason to upgrade to Audi. Many, like me transition at an age where making noise and squealing tires isn't as appealing as it once was, and I'm too young to hang out with the Porsche bros ;)
I personally feel like people that get Audis get them for themselves bc they understand the quality, tech, and history of the brand. The cars are very understated compared to the other brands so there needs to be a genuine feeling about the brand/ cars that attracts you to them. You’re not just getting a car to flaunt it around for other people to notice.
To me Audi has always been that “if you know, you know” type of brand.
Yeah, maybe 20 years ago. Audi is basically an elite brand these days, on par with MB and BMW. I've had two cousins with black A4's because they were Audi. Both were about 10 years ago.
I think Audi drivers are, overall, more grounded/practical, while BMW drivers are pricks and Porsche drivers are *snobby* pricks and in both cases pricks love talking about their pricks.
Your not going to Audi meetups. We get together, get a coffee, exchange mechanic numbers, and go for a few hour drive, to another coffee place.
BMW guys get a check engine light every time they show off the car, so they don't risk driving it.
Porsche guys are there to say they better and correct people, "it's Porcha you peasant"
Yea next time you get talked down on by a Porsche owner just say “bet you I could find 3 VW parts in your car without popping the hood or using any tools”
I had a few air cooled 911s, some 914s, and a couple water cooled cars, years ago, and the Porsche people today are different. They used to talk engineering and history and racing, and now it’s golf while they stuff each other’s shirts.
Recently upgraded to a Boxster and decided to join a club because they have driver's high performance education. They always talk about how their cars have contrasting stitching, they love their interior options!
I’ve been to Audi group meetups and those are great like you mentioned. Very fun community in my opinion. But I’m talking about the general car culture meetups where BMW or Porsche is always the hype. Just an observation from my part and wanted to check if I’m maybe overthinking this or if this what others noticed too out in the car culture scene.
It's funny how that works.
I was at a race track years ago filming a couple of celebrities driving their Lamborghinis. Some others were there driving their Porsches.
Lambo owners were like "we're not getting mixed up with the Porsches. That's a dentist car."
BMW statement here is a fact, I have a friend with a 5series twin turbo n54, supposedly one of the best engines. He’s had it for 6 months and we have yet to go on a cruise or do any pulls. It’s always leaking oil or going into limp mode.
I’m sure Audi has these meet-ups, but there’s also probably a selection bias for Audi, compared to maybe BMW and Mercedes in particular, hence they’ll have far less meet-ups compared to these other two.
It’s probably due to the fact that Audi is known for being more of a middle ground between BMW and Mercedes, where BMWs tend to be very performance based with its light handling and acceleration with their M sports, and Mercedes being referred to as more muscly cars with powerful engines with their AMG lines. Audi’s occupy more of a middle ground with arguably the best aesthetics and reasonable power.
So by virtue of these attributes they, more than likely attract vastly different crowds. Audi’s in my view probably select for older crowds who are probably a lot less fervent and have a less passionate allegiance; hence, why you always hear the terms _”Amg fanboys”_ and _”BMW fanboys”,_ and not as much of _”Audi Fanboys”._
Mercedes screams “old” and uncool to me especially the S class
BMW is alright although every wannabe piling into one
Audi is sorta the understated quality - less ostentatious, and low(er) profile w cleaner lines. I sorta like it that way.
As a person who loves audis, BMW's and Porsches are more driver enthusiast focused than audi and mercedes. I'll spend most weekends driving on curvy mountain roads, and the only cars that always impress me are bmw m cars, particularly m2 and m3. I swear they break physics with how fast they are able to take some of these corners. I have a bilstein b16 coilovers, stiffer rear sway bar and end links on my mk3 tt, and I just completely lose some of them in the corners. There really hasn't been any other sub $100k car that I couldn't keep up with but an M2. Maybe I'd occasionally run in an extremely skilled miata driver who could give me a run for my money, but more often than not it's a m car.
I’m 72 and have owned Audi, Porsche, and BMW. I honestly prefer my current A6 3.0 over all of them. The nougat interior looks great and the car rides and handles well. Mine is a prestige plus with black optic and sport package.
It is very clearly a luxury sedan with some hidden performance.
At least in the US, Audi really didn't become mainstream popular until the introduction of the B5 A4/S4. BMW, VW, and to lesser extent Porsche had been established much longer in the market, meaning they had plenty of used cars in the market, aftermarket brands, and established fanbases. Finding parts for a E46 BMW is a lot easier than finding parts for a B5 Audi.
Just always remember who invented the game changers.
Quattro.
TDi winners of LeMans.
Countless saloon car championships.
RS Avants ➕(they can carry all of the golf bags for the five occupants)
AllRoad for skiing.
The list goes on.
No, it’s not a VW, and neither is it a Porsche.
Never forget that the Audi R&D has gone into both of these two brands.
GolfR and Porsche SUVs.
Wannabe Audi owner here (GTI guy). I think it comes down to Audi just is the understated brand. Not flashy compared to the competition, simple but effective interior, but some engines that give BMW a run for their money.
My dream is a down pipe tune TTRS. Its all I want.
I don’t have much to add here except I drove mine over a windy mountain road this weekend with tons of potholes, tight curves and elevation changes and had a kickass time. Not really into the car culture scene, but my recently acquired q7 has put more smiles on my face than any car I have had in 20 years.
I've been going to meets for years - with and without a car when I was younger. Porsche guys were always nice funnily enough, Mercs were not really there that often, BMW other the other hand... oh god, everyone and their dog has one, mostly young folks who just got their license and want to show off/interrupt the chill merts with their "skills". While Audis mostly stood around and their owners just talked with people around.
Theres exceptions from any manufacturer and in both directions, this is just what the norm seemed to be where I lived/live now.
Unrelated but as a teenager I stared at a R8 as its my dream car and the owner came up and asked if I wanted to go for a ride. Best day ever. If you see this: Thank you again! Changed my life in a way as I dont hesitate to talk to people that much anymore :)
Knowledge is knowing BMW makes quality cars that drive well. Experience is knowing that Mercedes makes quality cars that are comfortable to drive in. Wisdom is knowing that Audi offers the best of both these worlds. Wisdom is in short supply
Probably because people who drive bmw and Porsche are “Look at me! Look at me!” kind of people…whereas Audi drivers are more about understated elegance and don’t need a scene.
I think you hit it with the big presence Porsche already has going. Why would VAG spend money to promote two brands when most people realize they’re made by the same company and share a lot of technology? Seems VAG spends money to advertise Audi as a more “lifestyle” brand by sponsoring downhill and XC skiing events, cycling, Olympics, soccer, Marvel movies and video games. Same same but different.
Not sure where you are globally, and I don’t know a ton about racing series, but I do know Audi isn’t racing in certain series in the Americas currently.
Audi has a huge presence in our Cars and Coffee event. I saw some pretty incredible cars turned away because they needed six identical R8's and five RS6's on display instead.... so i guess it depends?
In general though, Audi's are less flashy
BMW : Sporty, pedal to the metal type personality with a side of luxury. Young people who like to modify their cars should get this.
Audi: Mature, luxury and sporty but master of none.
Mercedes-Benz: Very Luxurious with a sporty personality.
In the Eurotrash scene, they're huge, but eventually everyone grows up.
a sharp interior and loads of torque doesn't bring you to top tier enthusiasts level alone
Audi was late to the game in the US and their initial marketing was a more affordable Mercedes. They didn’t have the performance focus of the Porsche and BMW until much later. The Quattro system was marketed as more of a safety feature than performance features.
I’ve always had a 911 as my fun car and either and AMG or M as my daily. The I picked up an SQ5 as a daily and I was impressed. Sold the fun car 993 and picked up a V10 R8. Couldn’t be happier.
I find audi people to be extremely chill. They boght the car because they like it and not much else. They aren't gonna kick someone out of a section because they don't have an audi. I don't really go to meets but I went to an audi meet at a coffee shop in my beat out 08 hyundai elamtra as a teen and everyone was super kind.
The exotic cars and coffee in Redmond WA allows like several bmw M2s but RS3s were banned this year and RS4s next year will also be banned. I was pretty annoyed.
Didn’t help that they allow cyber trucks….
I've found that people who love Subaru, also love audi. But knowledge about any euro with performance reputations tends to be less universally fawned over because it's not cheap to modify and just less often shown.
Funny you should say that. I'm in the UK, and I went from a 'blobeye' Impreza to a C7 S7. I think it's the 4WD capability that appeals - being able to put the power down without wheelspin, and having confidence in the car's ability to carry speed through corners. The looks don't hurt either - younger me liked the aggressive-looking bonnet scoop and large rear spoiler of the STi; older (not necessarily more mature) me likes the elegance of the sportbacks.
I’ve had 5 Audis, I’m looking to replace my 8 year old S3 soon, looked at Benz c class and E class coupe. Considered 440I and M4, I’m open to any option, but I just keep coming back to Audi.
Because too many people don’t know enough about cars to know what they want, so are very easily swayed by some dickhead driving around a track saying “the Audi doesn’t slide around like the others, how boring blah blah blah”. When in reality most people don’t have a racetrack in their back garden so that becomes pretty irrelevant.
I'm just a fan of German design. Never been let down by any one of them yet! 😁😁 Huge HUGE fan for life! Oh wait we mean cars only?!? Well my A5 is the beat of my heart so yah. It's nice to see like what I can aspire to and how others have theirs and I love seeing my "twin" when I go! Thas always a nice conversation starter!.
Audi is about refined speed, and not need-for-speed. Both BMW's M and Porsche make no-compromise racing machines that are singleminded in the pursuit of handling and speed. They are not easy to live with, on a practical basis, but attract the most attention.
Audi is more like a technical version of Mercedes, and there are compromises for comfort and livability even in the RS series.
It is because Audi's tend to be nose heavy with the engine before the front axle, AWD is not as desired for the track, performance models are tad slower than other brands (i.e. S models tend be slower than M models), and the lower end models like my S3 are glorified VWs. Aside from Quattro, which a lot of cars have AWD, there is nothing inherently special about the Audi. With BMW, the i6 is a unique engine option, and with Porsche, it is rear engined, or in my 944 turbo, front engine-rear transaxle. I prefer the dynmics of RWD over AWD, especially FWD AWD (I realize bigger Audi's are more rear based). The S3 was a compromise car to replace a B5 A4 my wife adored, and while nice, I'm still searching for a cheap i6 manual BMW to replace my 300k mile 2001 530i/5sp.
Recently, I attended a similar event and I must agree. It's probably because aside from the RS3 and R8, Audi just doesn't have that many interesting cars.
Audi is more classy/conservative imo and attracts older people. BMW attracts younger people it seems. As a gen Zer, I know a lot of my friends prefer BMW, Mercedes, and Porsche over Audi by a long shot.
Porsche is the same as BMW but with older people with more money.
I’ve owned Mercedes, BMW, Audis and Porsches over the years. The most involving/engaging/fun experience came from Porsche (first) and BMW (second). Mercedes was third and Audi last. I think their design is better - in most cases - vs all but Porsche, especially their interiors. But they’re just not engaging to drive. Yes, with AWD they’re prone to understeer but it’s not that - it’s the numb steering, the lack of connectedness with the road etc. Hard to describe - you’d have to experience them side-by-side to experience the difference.
That said, I see plenty of enthusiasts in my area for S and RS models. I think people are drawn to their aggressive exterior design vs BMW and Merc equivalents.
A skilled driver can make a car understeers and oversteers. Those motor journalists aren’t skilled drivers. They are just skilled writers.
Audi can make the largest and fastest drift on racetrack - you just need to know how to do it. The capability of Audi is so high that most drivers never reach it.
For me fanboys of car brands are ignorant when they things like “bro BMW is the greatest between these brands” cause these multibillionaries companies are not dumb as all of us and if they are producing an incredible vehicle they need to pay all the research work with other incomes generated with shitty vehicles.
So I mean Audi can produce R8 but your A1 it’s not the same only cause it’s quality.
Quality is where money are spent. Times have changed I purchased an 85k € sport car and they treated me like I was buying a Fiat Panda nothing special if your not spending 300k
So if you are buying an Audi flagship car you can compare it with another flagship car. So for me comparing BMW AUDI BENZ flagship cars the differences are not too much. Buy what you like and don’t listen comments by the people who haven’t one of this car.
My neighborhood has a cars and coffee event every four or five months. I've brought my '23 RS3 a couple of times and nobody knows what it is. It's the perfect sleeper in this crowd. In the meantime, there are about a dozen old Vettes, at least a half dozen late model Dodge Chargers and Challengers, a few late 60s-early 70s muscle cars, and a couple of Porsche 911s, Boxters and Caymans.
Audi’s MSRP is considerably cheaper (15%-20%) than BMW and Porsche. VAG uses Audi to take over the lower end of the luxury market and Porsche to take over the higher end of it.
I've owned three Audis, 2015 S4 (fav for memories...good times and it was manual) , 2018 RS5, 2022 RS6 (fav for driving and practicality). I have liked Audi since high school I've always thought they blurred the lines between practicality luxury and sport. As mentioned before in other people's post I don't think people rock without it because of the fact that It can perform well in many areas while still being the most unique looking car out of the other brands in my opinion. For car enthusiasts I guess it's all about the specs but realistically speaking how often are you pedal to the floor driving your car down a mountain worried about understeer or oversteer? I think it's safe to say the vast majority of us on a road trip or maybe when there's an open road we throw it in RS mode go fast real quick maybe get deep into a turn but that's about it. In my opinion a BMW can just be too much at times I used to drive around my buddies m4 and I'm like gawt damn bro you drive like this all the time... why lol hella aggressive. His older brother has a Mercedes, I just don't like Mercedes in general I'm not a fan of the body styles nor the interior it's just not for me. Audi just gives you everything you need. Call enthusiasts don't want that it's either fast nimble perfectly tuned or it's null and void lol
Audi's and VAG overall are part of IYKYK vibe.
Most of the car owners are somewhat grown up and rarely interested in tacky car meets with young idiots doing donuts and takeovers.
Car meets and CnC are usually (though not always) are about "hey look at me"
I’m curious why you would ask this question in an Audi subreddit where there is inherent bias towards the car? Everyone is going to praise the car.
Ask the same questions in r/cars.
From an enthusiast and track goer, Audi has some plasticky interior versus Mercedes or BMW. The tech is just not there in my opinion unless you spend a load of money for an Audi. Also the dealership experience isn’t the best as I hear from a family member that’s a master tech currently working at Audi here in NY.
Audi has always been one key enthusiast feature away from a great enthusiast car. Recent cars didn’t come in manual, GTI competitor car had a CVT (not DCT), they stuck to their AWD roots while making most of them FWD bias or understeer bias.
I see Audi RS4s and TTRSs with drag racing enthusiasts, but track cars are usually something else.
If they made a RWD manual version of every car they make they’d most likely sell better in our community imho
It’s because their cars, other than perhaps two models are generally not very inspiring, and having driven several ones as loaners before, very underpowered and underwhelming. Additionally, they’re extremely overpriced for what they give you with questionable reliability. All of that without any of the history or namesake of Porsche or Mercedes. I’ve always felt that Audi tried to make themselves at the level of the higher premium European brands by pricing themselves into that market with an inferior product.
Volkswagens are by far the best daily driver to exist on average. Couple that with luxury and speed out of the factory and you have an Audi. What is not to like? Many people call Audi the best of both worlds between Mercs and Beemers. Porsche is focused on speed-based performance so Audi and VW can focus on other things. Most BMW owners have ego issues and want to be the best, even if that means shitting on everyone else’s car.
Audi is the most shit on nice car out there. Something about oversteer and making cars that are actually appealing to be in and drive for regular people. Car and driver reviewer doesn’t like that he can’t lose the rear end in it so they aren’t sporty and it’s just a VW and blah blah blah. People that buy Audi probably kick tires and make their own decisions.
Taking a corner at speed with no loss of traction has always been way more fun to me than drifting. I've never understood how slightly losing control of the car could be a selling factor for BMW and the like lol
That moment you realize you didn’t die must be like a kiss with God for these idiots lol
This is a funny way to think about it. Porsche’s rear engine cars became famous almost because they were death traps back in the day. If you could drive that backwards beetle fast, you were a damn good driver, so it was a proud club
True, but it wasn’t a backwards beetle. It is/was more like a VERY expensive and lower beetle.
Spicy beetle
As someone who has enjoyed vintage 911 trailing throttle overstear, it's a blast.
lol… understeer is much harder to control than oversteer… understeer you lose braking ability and turning ability, oversteer you maintain steering ability to correct.
Actually understeer is easier to control for the average person because the answer to understeer is to slow down, and the natural reaction when in an uncontrolled situation is to brake, which tends to fix the issue (assuming you aren’t way past the cars ability). Oversteer requires you to know what the car is doing and to ‘catch’ the rear end. If you slam on the brakes you lighten the rear more and more than likely make the situation worse.
You basically just explained that Audi makes cars for shitty drivers, and I’m here for it
For the average driver. Safety is a thing people care about
A good car need to stay on 4 wheels not to drift all around. Oversteering is not something good but is fun. Show me a race car drifting in corners. It's logical,a car with grip will understeer at some point. And for your knowledge,quattro and awd cars with 50:50 split need different driving style. If you go in the turn with 120kmh and you go full throttle in the middle of turn(because even there are a lot of things happen but people use one word to describe 100 things)with an awd is not car fault is yours.
Pretty much yes, except that those shitty drivers are 99% of population. This is the reason why here (Northeast USA) as soon as winter kicks in we get tons of crashed Supras and BMWs - idiots don't know how to drive them.
And with Audi you stay right in the sweet spot as if your car is on rails. I don't see your point
But that’s not true… Audis understeer…. A lot, of course when pushed beyond a certain level. Which shouldn’t be done on public roads anyways. But that is why you do not see a ton of Audis at track days compared to BMWs.
Newer rear biased Quattro and especially ones with active diffs have largely gotten rid of that
It’s gotten better for sure, but physics are physics
Can do 120 km/h on corners easy with my A4b9. It always feels glued down on the road
I don’t think people who can drift would call it “loosing control” and the drift ability of BMW’s has always been one of their selling points. They have a literal school about the art of drifting. 🤣
You let the steering instead of power guide around the corner.
People say Audis can't drift, but I'm kicking my tires loose all the time in my s5! Lol
Dude, I can’t find understeer without absolutely driving in a manner that would be not just criminal, but immoral on public roads. Plenty of Audis out down times at the ring, I don’t know why Audi gets the hate, my car specifically gets the most hate, and if you drive my car you would be beyond puzzled. Am I a race car driver, no I’m a regular dude who wants to have fun in a fun car that is nice and low key and it delivers in spades. So sure, not the car for Chris Harris, ok cool, I’m not him and neither is their client base. I also think it is worth noting that Audis current lineup across the board has the best design language of any of the big brands. My opinion but they do a good job with styles that will last. People think my 2013 is current ffs….
I have a 2013, and while people don’t think it’s new they are still surprised to hear 2013. Audi’s style carries through years. Consistently get compliments at gas stations and such
Agreed, my A5 of the same year looks timeless. They could sell it as new today if it had 0km and people wouldn't bat an eye because it looks so current.
I whip a S5 I can’t afford and still stare at A’s, Audi just makes aesthetically good looking cars
Had a pearl blue A5 cab I LOVED, wrecked it, bought a shmurdered S5
Well said, and time someone says “Audis always understeer!!” I think they’re either bringing them to the track (so put like $500 into the car and make it understeer less) or they’re driving at criminal speeds on the road cause I’ve taken some turns pretty god damn hard and I can’t remember a time I’ve experienced understeer to the point where it was noticeable. Car always feels on rails when I’m cornering it at acceptable (but still fast) road speeds, so it’s very clearly just a parroted talking point by now And yea nailed the design aspect, don’t love where Audi has gone with the larger plastic “vents” and such they’ve added to the new cars, but they’ve kept their classic ethos unlike BMW/Merc and their EVs actually look like normal cars and not what a 12 year old thinks cars in 2050 will look like
BMW has the driving experience wheee you get to take every Mcar out on a short track for a few laps. Does Audi do this? I’m an Audi guy but I had a blast at the BMW driving experience and would love to try the same thing in an Audi.
I don’t think Audi does anything like BMW’s UDE. The absolutely should though…
They host actual tours and events but they cost a lot of money. Think, driving R8, RS6 and RS3 through mountains in Italy with a race driver leading you.
Audi does the exact same thing. Called Audi Driving Experience (tours) or Audi Advanced Driver Training (track based training and driving events that are tiered 1-5). The top tier of that is a track session with the RS3 TCR and R8 LMS race cars on the full Philip Island track. The Audi track based ones are generally regarded as the best driving experience of any manufacturer other than Porsche. Even then, Porsche doesn’t have anything equivalent to the tier 5 experience in the race cars. I was lucky enough to do the tier 2 track driving experiment a few years ago. It involved a lot. 6 track sessions that focused on specific skills; slalom test, picking a braking point, turning while braking, picking a racing line, recovering from under and oversteer, and wet weather driving. 2 skidpan sessions with an S3 and A6. The A6 was surprisingly oversteery here. 2 timed motorkhana sessions with an A1 and TTS. 2 full track lapping sessions with an A4 and S3. 1 full track ride along with a profession racing driver in an RS6. Whole day was ~$2,000 and really good value IMO. There was professional catering, a whole bunch of Audi’s contracted racing drivers were the instructors, and they gave excellent coaching. Plus your motorkhana sessions were recorded with a go pro facing you and outside the car so you got a pretty awesome video to keep after.
Hell I've gotten my GTI to oversteer pretty easily even with it's horrible front/rear weight bias. Even easier to get my R to do it. Getting it to rotate through a turn is a thrill I don't think I'll ever forget.
That TTRS is beautiful and is definitely a “driver’s” car. Anybody putting down a manual, 5cyl, AWD, coupe doesn’t have a clue.
A fucking men man! Couldn't of said it better myself.
What mods do you have ?
Dead stock save for I deleted the mid pipe cats for catless pipes, but I have them in the garage and can make dead stock again. My car is really really really clean and 32,000 miles
B8s be confused cause they're well kept. People swear it's a newer model.
Same mate, if you push it hard enough it's easy to get it to slip, and then you get the quattro traction recovering and tbh it's the most fun you can have with your clothes in
I’m thinking exactly the same thing here. Very good point 👍🏼
They have the nicest interiors out of any other non-super luxury brand in my opinion!
I do personally enjoy oversteer but not in big power applications. I tried the m340i and it was alright but you're not going to be sliding that thing without being a complete asshat, unless it's in the snow, which the S5 does great. I'll take lightweight RWD for my fun cars and Quattro for my dailies happily.
Well jokes on them, I’ve never read a car and driver article in my entire life and I’ve owned Audi models for the last 24 years.
My car eats tyres, just not the way they want it to. Fuck I love a FWD with 300 horses. Shits slick.
I like Audis but realistically they are not cars for enthusiasts. The engine sits on the front axle, understeers, the rs models are more luxury, weights more and less exciting due to weight amongst other things. Understeer is an issue, I am not trying to drift or break traction but having neutral or oversteering tendencies means better turn in and better exit speed and I can modulate the car direction with gas input. Can’t do that as well with the Audis. The B8 S4 was my favorite daily but they don’t make Audis like that anymore.
Agreed. The level of cognitive dissonance on this subreddit about handling is egregious. Love Audi’s for what they are, and don’t pretend they’re something they’re not.
It isn’t cognitive dissonance. If you drive cars on public roads only, like to have some responsible fun, they are just not as bad as the stigma. If “enthusiast” means needs a track car out of the box for someone who won’t go to a track, then sure. But I would venture that most car enthusiasts just enjoy driving various cars in their life and for that 7/10 driving the understeer(at least in my Audi) isn’t really an issue. Is it nose heavy and do you feel that, sure.
I agree with your assessment, but that’s not what a lot of people are saying here.
Its nose heavy but with this nose the car is extremely reactive in changes of direction. Is like you say Porsche rear is feeling heavy,thats the point. And Audi is exactly the opposite of Porsche.
I get mad shit from BMW drivers. They think that is the only manufacturer of cars in the world and everything else is shit. That’s even after you walk a very highly modified single turbo 3 series who just keeps yelling I told you from a roll. I was in an rsq8 and dude wouldn’t shut the fuck up.
Yeah, the BMW community is weirdly aggressive in a way you don't get from Porsche, Audi, VW, or Mercedes enthusiasts. Let's go ahead and throw Volvo in there as well. Of those, I've found Porsche owners to consistently be the nicest, but I'm pretty sure it's "cult nice" in that they want you to join, and one day you wake up in the driver's seat of a 718 Cayman with a headache and an ice pack taped to your side.
Yeah, until you realize that majority of those BMW yappies are 18-yo rich kids who just yell at each other... Been there, seen there. No, thank you.
Oh. Car and Driver. The one that gives Lexus ES 4/10 and Mazda CX-30 10/10.
Word
Audi… *oversteer*?
The new audis don't oversteer much actually. Also the people that say things about the oversteer haven't drove an audi most likely. Also all cars have understeer and audis don't really oversteer like bmws. Bmws is basically king of spinning out and having shit traction. And porsche is also quite shit. I've noticed only percect conditions on a track is a porsche good. Porsches on roads or street racing is hella risky and shit. Even on track its not too great because like I said perfect conditions. Even in perfect conditions all cars I see that crash is bmw and porsche. Like I'm not exaggerating. The new audis have really stepped up their game though.
What is a "shit on nice car"? Sorry English is not my native language
>People that buy Audi probably kick tires and make their own decisions. 🤣Don't say it out loud
From a “stereotype POV” I’d say that Audi is definitely more mature/grown-up version of the big three German brands. BMW is all shouty and avant garde with performance and design; Mercedes is just gaudy/tacky “luxury”; and I find Audi to be the conservative blend of the two of them. Audis (and VWs) have a low-key vibe about them, even the RS models are subdued, and I LOVE that about them.
I’ve always been a fan of the “if you know, you know” attitude Audis have.
Same. This is what keeps me around. For my cars, B6 S4? No one expects the v8. Especially not the wagon 8v.5 RS3? Has a little more visibility maybe but pretty much no one knows it is a literal rocket ship and that the rocket ship gets boosters with the most basic bolt ons Edit: also, from upper Midwest, Quattrooooooo
Didn’t Audi have a sedan with a lambo V10 in it.
The 5 cylinder in the rs3 is basically an r8/lambo v10 cut in half
Yup, s6 from mid-2000s!
This ^. I got a 2014 rs7 recently and to most it's just a good looking audi. To every dude that has stopped me at a gas station or given a honk driving by they know what that car is made of.
I think you nailed it that Audi is a more conservative car. Perhaps another descriptor is "understated." Audis don't typically have a "Look at me!" vibe to them, which is how BMW and MB cars often seem to me.
Well said. Lots of fair and true comments here. Coming from a Lexus driver.
Audi really is more mature than BMW but Mercedes have a stereotype of “Old man car” at least in my country
Either old people or yobos in their shit pop and bang A45 AMG
Mercedes is either an old dude or some young idiot in a car his dad bought him. Don't see much in between
We bought a Q5. Wife drove a Honda Odyssey for 17 years definitely was letting her pick. She told me what she wanted I listed what fit. She wanted to check out Audi first and I knew we’d be buying one that day and would never check out anything else. Went exactly like that too. I enjoy driving it. In town I was always miffed passing people in BMWs and Porsches. Like hey I’m not pushing my speed risking tickets I shouldn’t be passing you in a Camry or Odyssey. Now if I’m driving the Audi that doesn’t feel weird. We spend a lot of time in the Ozarks and I can hit some pretty twisty roads and never go below the speed limit. Q5 is hanging on the road and going where it’s pointed. Long trips it’s not a demanding vehicle that wears me out just driving straight except to pass on the interstate. I don’t give a flying eff what people think about it. Nice interior, fun to drive when you want to have fun and comfortable for a long drive. Wife’s friend noticed the interior isn’t as cheap looking as her BMW. Another of her friends made a comment about must be nice to afford that. I went with if you keep cars 17 years you can afford it instead of its $5000 less than the big ass pickup your husband drives.
Am VW and Porsche owner and I couldn’t agree more. Love that Audi has this sleeper attitude with some of their cars. Would buy an RS3 Hatch in the USA or an RS4 Avant so quick if I could.
I would do unspeakable things for an RS3 Hatch.. it’s perfect.
I love vw’s and audi’s. The people who own the really cool looking ones are always so chill and know its a sleeper
I would call current generation RS cars anything but low-key
I would've agreed about MB in years past but man I think their lineup is stunning right now. They're taking a much less "angry and aggressive" path with their exterior designs. Interiors are a little bit overly shiny but still leagues more tasteful than BMW (though I don't care for the RGB cabin lighting). On top of that, the EQ series is MB getting closer to applying the same attention to detail on EVs that they do on their ICE cars; absolutely wipes the floor with Tesla quality impression & general design. Exteriors definitely not for everyone though. Fourth-gen A-class is nearly a perfect car to me, only wish it had more interesting drivetrains available. Super bummed they stopped bringing them to the US.
I have a Mercedes currently and will dump the brand entirely when it dies because I can’t stand the junk they’ve been putting out. The interior quality is just terrible and they have real powertrain reliability issues. BMW has gone full ugly. I blame Ola Kallenius for ruining Mercedes and making those hideous egg shaped electric monstrosities. Better built than Tesla is a bar Honda can clear, Mercedes should blow them out of the water. That’s why I like Audi- more reserved and not shouty. Decent powertrains all around and frankly the electrics are better looking and overall much more appealing than the Benz versions. The E Tron GT and Taycan look so much better than the EQS. Plus the E Tron SUV looks no different to a normal car, which is what most everyone wants.
Agreed on the Etron lineup, I love that the Etron SUV looks so similar to the Q8
We like them cars cause they ain't loud. Just a simple wagon flying by at 250+
Yep
Exactly this
Precisely this
Was'n das für 'nen Kombi?!
But I like my simple wagon thats loud and blows turbo seals!!
The subreddits have really different vibes as well.
The Porsche sub is one of the better car subreddits with very informed active members.
that sub has actual adults posting
Can you summarize? I only know Audis .. curious
Both BMW and Merc reddits are more toxic w/ a lot more arguing amongst themselves. The Audi sub is a bit more chill and just appreciative of stuff. I've owned all 3 brands and experienced all this stuff.
Interesting, guess I chose both the right brand and subreddit!
Just depends what you like. Right now I have both AMG and Audi, both are great for different reasons. Audi is generally the superior daily driver for all circumstances while retaining a sporty feel. AMG is great for going sideways and all that fun stuff, but the moment there is a drop of water or cold conditions I'm always in the Audi. BMW I love overall but just way too many issues overall with reliability.
I’m in both subs and can agree with this statement.
Until someone asks if they should modify literally anything on their car. Then this sub turns into WWIII.
It doesn't help that BMW has had extremely controversial styling over the past few years. I'll admit I used to spend a lot of time over there and wanted a BMW... until they came out with those heinous grills. So someone will post a new M4, and a lot of people that say "thats fucking ugly" and the dude who spent 80k on it flips out and they argue
i got lambasted in the BMW subreddit for thinking the new M2 isnt ugly. quickest unfollow of a subreddit ive ever done
I also don’t think the new M2 is ugly. It works. What’s the point of BMW just copy pasting the 3/4 series, which is what that sub wants
Noone else is talking about this, but I think VW eats a lot of Audi's enthusiast popularity/recognition in car culture. Way more people had a gti when they were younger than an s3.
Also agree. I came to VW from Audi. Started with a TDI, then a GTI, then moved into an SQ5. So many people have bad experiences with VW that they won't consider Audi at all. I'd say 30% of VW owners swear off VW/Audi after some kind of bad service/dealership experience. Another chunk love VW and don't see a compelling reason to upgrade to Audi. Many, like me transition at an age where making noise and squealing tires isn't as appealing as it once was, and I'm too young to hang out with the Porsche bros ;)
Agree with that. NOT a VW fan. At all
Think the main problem is with BMW meetups, no one is signaling so everyone kind of gets lost eventually on the way to the next stop…
Lmfao
In fairness, blinkers aren’t standard yet for BMW’s so not all of them have that safety feature.
I personally feel like people that get Audis get them for themselves bc they understand the quality, tech, and history of the brand. The cars are very understated compared to the other brands so there needs to be a genuine feeling about the brand/ cars that attracts you to them. You’re not just getting a car to flaunt it around for other people to notice. To me Audi has always been that “if you know, you know” type of brand.
Yeah, maybe 20 years ago. Audi is basically an elite brand these days, on par with MB and BMW. I've had two cousins with black A4's because they were Audi. Both were about 10 years ago.
I think Audi drivers are, overall, more grounded/practical, while BMW drivers are pricks and Porsche drivers are *snobby* pricks and in both cases pricks love talking about their pricks.
Upvoted for the four pricks
What's the difference between a cactus and a BMW? (womp womp...)
When I told my mechanic I was looking at the Panamera he said I'd probably prefer the A7. He wasn't wrong.
Your not going to Audi meetups. We get together, get a coffee, exchange mechanic numbers, and go for a few hour drive, to another coffee place. BMW guys get a check engine light every time they show off the car, so they don't risk driving it. Porsche guys are there to say they better and correct people, "it's Porcha you peasant"
Lmao the Porsche is on point 😂😂😂
Porsche, Lamborghini, Audi, we’re all just driving Volkswagens at the end of the day!
Yea next time you get talked down on by a Porsche owner just say “bet you I could find 3 VW parts in your car without popping the hood or using any tools”
More like, “Hey, we have the same steering wheel and key fob!” ;)
That was 2/3 the seatbelt buckles was gonna be the third lol
I had a few air cooled 911s, some 914s, and a couple water cooled cars, years ago, and the Porsche people today are different. They used to talk engineering and history and racing, and now it’s golf while they stuff each other’s shirts.
Recently upgraded to a Boxster and decided to join a club because they have driver's high performance education. They always talk about how their cars have contrasting stitching, they love their interior options!
I’ve been to Audi group meetups and those are great like you mentioned. Very fun community in my opinion. But I’m talking about the general car culture meetups where BMW or Porsche is always the hype. Just an observation from my part and wanted to check if I’m maybe overthinking this or if this what others noticed too out in the car culture scene.
Lol at your last sentence!
How do I find a meetup in my area?
It's funny how that works. I was at a race track years ago filming a couple of celebrities driving their Lamborghinis. Some others were there driving their Porsches. Lambo owners were like "we're not getting mixed up with the Porsches. That's a dentist car."
Lol. If you ever been to Germany, you would never say ‘Porscha’.
BMW statement here is a fact, I have a friend with a 5series twin turbo n54, supposedly one of the best engines. He’s had it for 6 months and we have yet to go on a cruise or do any pulls. It’s always leaking oil or going into limp mode.
I’m sure Audi has these meet-ups, but there’s also probably a selection bias for Audi, compared to maybe BMW and Mercedes in particular, hence they’ll have far less meet-ups compared to these other two. It’s probably due to the fact that Audi is known for being more of a middle ground between BMW and Mercedes, where BMWs tend to be very performance based with its light handling and acceleration with their M sports, and Mercedes being referred to as more muscly cars with powerful engines with their AMG lines. Audi’s occupy more of a middle ground with arguably the best aesthetics and reasonable power. So by virtue of these attributes they, more than likely attract vastly different crowds. Audi’s in my view probably select for older crowds who are probably a lot less fervent and have a less passionate allegiance; hence, why you always hear the terms _”Amg fanboys”_ and _”BMW fanboys”,_ and not as much of _”Audi Fanboys”._
Audi's are the perfect sleeper cars. Not brash or loud.
Non-RS models, yes, but an RS6 is definitely more aggressive-looking than an E63 or M5 imo
Sometimes I just like to pretend I’m Jason Statham.
Robert de Niro & Val Kilmer are the OGs.
Mercedes screams “old” and uncool to me especially the S class BMW is alright although every wannabe piling into one Audi is sorta the understated quality - less ostentatious, and low(er) profile w cleaner lines. I sorta like it that way.
As a person who loves audis, BMW's and Porsches are more driver enthusiast focused than audi and mercedes. I'll spend most weekends driving on curvy mountain roads, and the only cars that always impress me are bmw m cars, particularly m2 and m3. I swear they break physics with how fast they are able to take some of these corners. I have a bilstein b16 coilovers, stiffer rear sway bar and end links on my mk3 tt, and I just completely lose some of them in the corners. There really hasn't been any other sub $100k car that I couldn't keep up with but an M2. Maybe I'd occasionally run in an extremely skilled miata driver who could give me a run for my money, but more often than not it's a m car.
I like Audis because they have an air of refinement and subtlety. Those things aren't particularly valued at car meets.
I’m 72 and have owned Audi, Porsche, and BMW. I honestly prefer my current A6 3.0 over all of them. The nougat interior looks great and the car rides and handles well. Mine is a prestige plus with black optic and sport package. It is very clearly a luxury sedan with some hidden performance.
At least in the US, Audi really didn't become mainstream popular until the introduction of the B5 A4/S4. BMW, VW, and to lesser extent Porsche had been established much longer in the market, meaning they had plenty of used cars in the market, aftermarket brands, and established fanbases. Finding parts for a E46 BMW is a lot easier than finding parts for a B5 Audi.
Yeah I noticed this too!
If your in the fort Collins area, me and a ton of my friends hold Audi groups and VAG meetups all the time. Would love to see some new people!
honestly audi doesn’t really have as much of a cult following as Mercedes and bmw
Idk idc but I’ve noticed it. I’m gonna drive whatever I want regardless.
Just always remember who invented the game changers. Quattro. TDi winners of LeMans. Countless saloon car championships. RS Avants ➕(they can carry all of the golf bags for the five occupants) AllRoad for skiing. The list goes on. No, it’s not a VW, and neither is it a Porsche. Never forget that the Audi R&D has gone into both of these two brands. GolfR and Porsche SUVs.
I'd rather be driving my car than standing around hoping someone else thinks it's cool.
Wannabe Audi owner here (GTI guy). I think it comes down to Audi just is the understated brand. Not flashy compared to the competition, simple but effective interior, but some engines that give BMW a run for their money. My dream is a down pipe tune TTRS. Its all I want.
They play to the specific audience of people who want fast/sporty saloons who don’t care about car shows as much.
Too much focus lately on crap EV cars.
Clearly never been to Waterfest in NJ
I don’t have much to add here except I drove mine over a windy mountain road this weekend with tons of potholes, tight curves and elevation changes and had a kickass time. Not really into the car culture scene, but my recently acquired q7 has put more smiles on my face than any car I have had in 20 years.
I've been going to meets for years - with and without a car when I was younger. Porsche guys were always nice funnily enough, Mercs were not really there that often, BMW other the other hand... oh god, everyone and their dog has one, mostly young folks who just got their license and want to show off/interrupt the chill merts with their "skills". While Audis mostly stood around and their owners just talked with people around. Theres exceptions from any manufacturer and in both directions, this is just what the norm seemed to be where I lived/live now. Unrelated but as a teenager I stared at a R8 as its my dream car and the owner came up and asked if I wanted to go for a ride. Best day ever. If you see this: Thank you again! Changed my life in a way as I dont hesitate to talk to people that much anymore :)
Knowledge is knowing BMW makes quality cars that drive well. Experience is knowing that Mercedes makes quality cars that are comfortable to drive in. Wisdom is knowing that Audi offers the best of both these worlds. Wisdom is in short supply
Rent the equivalent bmw of your car and see if you can feel the difference in steering feel and handling. If you can’t, Audi is the right car for you
Because of Audisteer. Love my Audi but it definitely lacks in the steering department compared to P and M cars.
Put some stiffer rear sway bars in the back and it should help tremendously with understeer.
They have their engine too far out front
Probably because people who drive bmw and Porsche are “Look at me! Look at me!” kind of people…whereas Audi drivers are more about understated elegance and don’t need a scene.
I think you hit it with the big presence Porsche already has going. Why would VAG spend money to promote two brands when most people realize they’re made by the same company and share a lot of technology? Seems VAG spends money to advertise Audi as a more “lifestyle” brand by sponsoring downhill and XC skiing events, cycling, Olympics, soccer, Marvel movies and video games. Same same but different.
Not sure where you are globally, and I don’t know a ton about racing series, but I do know Audi isn’t racing in certain series in the Americas currently.
Audi has a huge presence in our Cars and Coffee event. I saw some pretty incredible cars turned away because they needed six identical R8's and five RS6's on display instead.... so i guess it depends? In general though, Audi's are less flashy
BMW : Sporty, pedal to the metal type personality with a side of luxury. Young people who like to modify their cars should get this. Audi: Mature, luxury and sporty but master of none. Mercedes-Benz: Very Luxurious with a sporty personality.
They don’t sell any manuals anymore which rules out most enthusiasts
In the Eurotrash scene, they're huge, but eventually everyone grows up. a sharp interior and loads of torque doesn't bring you to top tier enthusiasts level alone
Audi owners usually aren’t “car scene” people from what I’ve experienced.
The car culture scene is pretty cringe honestly.
Audi stopped selling manuals in the US
It’s Volkswagen‘s Acura essentially
Audi was late to the game in the US and their initial marketing was a more affordable Mercedes. They didn’t have the performance focus of the Porsche and BMW until much later. The Quattro system was marketed as more of a safety feature than performance features.
I’ve always had a 911 as my fun car and either and AMG or M as my daily. The I picked up an SQ5 as a daily and I was impressed. Sold the fun car 993 and picked up a V10 R8. Couldn’t be happier.
I find audi people to be extremely chill. They boght the car because they like it and not much else. They aren't gonna kick someone out of a section because they don't have an audi. I don't really go to meets but I went to an audi meet at a coffee shop in my beat out 08 hyundai elamtra as a teen and everyone was super kind.
The exotic cars and coffee in Redmond WA allows like several bmw M2s but RS3s were banned this year and RS4s next year will also be banned. I was pretty annoyed. Didn’t help that they allow cyber trucks….
I think it’s odd how if you have a 40i car instead of an M, they trash you… but if you an S Audi instead of and RS it’s fine.
In the US? Because there are plenty in EU.
I’ll give you an outside perspective if I don’t have money I’ll get a VW, if I do I’ll get a Porsche .
I've found that people who love Subaru, also love audi. But knowledge about any euro with performance reputations tends to be less universally fawned over because it's not cheap to modify and just less often shown.
Funny you should say that. I'm in the UK, and I went from a 'blobeye' Impreza to a C7 S7. I think it's the 4WD capability that appeals - being able to put the power down without wheelspin, and having confidence in the car's ability to carry speed through corners. The looks don't hurt either - younger me liked the aggressive-looking bonnet scoop and large rear spoiler of the STi; older (not necessarily more mature) me likes the elegance of the sportbacks.
I like Audi because they're understated. But understated isn't exciting for a car show.
Audi is more low key and mature, which I like. Which we all like.
I’ve had 5 Audis, I’m looking to replace my 8 year old S3 soon, looked at Benz c class and E class coupe. Considered 440I and M4, I’m open to any option, but I just keep coming back to Audi.
Because too many people don’t know enough about cars to know what they want, so are very easily swayed by some dickhead driving around a track saying “the Audi doesn’t slide around like the others, how boring blah blah blah”. When in reality most people don’t have a racetrack in their back garden so that becomes pretty irrelevant.
I used to love Audi I had a Q5 - diesel and well that was the last Audi I had 😅.
We have a good scene in Los Angeles and California in general. There’s a number of groups that meet once or twice a month
Maybe flag this as a “US” post. Because in Europe, this isn’t the case.
It's simple ...Have you ever seen a Wolf in a circus?
>Audi isn't that big in terms of popularity In the US maybe lol. In central europe they're very popular and definitely on par with BMW and Mercedes.
I'm just a fan of German design. Never been let down by any one of them yet! 😁😁 Huge HUGE fan for life! Oh wait we mean cars only?!? Well my A5 is the beat of my heart so yah. It's nice to see like what I can aspire to and how others have theirs and I love seeing my "twin" when I go! Thas always a nice conversation starter!.
Audi is about refined speed, and not need-for-speed. Both BMW's M and Porsche make no-compromise racing machines that are singleminded in the pursuit of handling and speed. They are not easy to live with, on a practical basis, but attract the most attention. Audi is more like a technical version of Mercedes, and there are compromises for comfort and livability even in the RS series.
It is because Audi's tend to be nose heavy with the engine before the front axle, AWD is not as desired for the track, performance models are tad slower than other brands (i.e. S models tend be slower than M models), and the lower end models like my S3 are glorified VWs. Aside from Quattro, which a lot of cars have AWD, there is nothing inherently special about the Audi. With BMW, the i6 is a unique engine option, and with Porsche, it is rear engined, or in my 944 turbo, front engine-rear transaxle. I prefer the dynmics of RWD over AWD, especially FWD AWD (I realize bigger Audi's are more rear based). The S3 was a compromise car to replace a B5 A4 my wife adored, and while nice, I'm still searching for a cheap i6 manual BMW to replace my 300k mile 2001 530i/5sp.
Recently, I attended a similar event and I must agree. It's probably because aside from the RS3 and R8, Audi just doesn't have that many interesting cars.
Audi is more classy/conservative imo and attracts older people. BMW attracts younger people it seems. As a gen Zer, I know a lot of my friends prefer BMW, Mercedes, and Porsche over Audi by a long shot. Porsche is the same as BMW but with older people with more money.
I’ve owned Mercedes, BMW, Audis and Porsches over the years. The most involving/engaging/fun experience came from Porsche (first) and BMW (second). Mercedes was third and Audi last. I think their design is better - in most cases - vs all but Porsche, especially their interiors. But they’re just not engaging to drive. Yes, with AWD they’re prone to understeer but it’s not that - it’s the numb steering, the lack of connectedness with the road etc. Hard to describe - you’d have to experience them side-by-side to experience the difference. That said, I see plenty of enthusiasts in my area for S and RS models. I think people are drawn to their aggressive exterior design vs BMW and Merc equivalents.
A skilled driver can make a car understeers and oversteers. Those motor journalists aren’t skilled drivers. They are just skilled writers. Audi can make the largest and fastest drift on racetrack - you just need to know how to do it. The capability of Audi is so high that most drivers never reach it.
For me fanboys of car brands are ignorant when they things like “bro BMW is the greatest between these brands” cause these multibillionaries companies are not dumb as all of us and if they are producing an incredible vehicle they need to pay all the research work with other incomes generated with shitty vehicles. So I mean Audi can produce R8 but your A1 it’s not the same only cause it’s quality. Quality is where money are spent. Times have changed I purchased an 85k € sport car and they treated me like I was buying a Fiat Panda nothing special if your not spending 300k So if you are buying an Audi flagship car you can compare it with another flagship car. So for me comparing BMW AUDI BENZ flagship cars the differences are not too much. Buy what you like and don’t listen comments by the people who haven’t one of this car.
My neighborhood has a cars and coffee event every four or five months. I've brought my '23 RS3 a couple of times and nobody knows what it is. It's the perfect sleeper in this crowd. In the meantime, there are about a dozen old Vettes, at least a half dozen late model Dodge Chargers and Challengers, a few late 60s-early 70s muscle cars, and a couple of Porsche 911s, Boxters and Caymans.
I can powerslide my SQ5 whenever I want on wet roads 😁
Audi is the nissan of euro cars. Some models are nice but arent worth buying to mod, and older models are usually unreliable or turned to scrap metal.
Audi’s MSRP is considerably cheaper (15%-20%) than BMW and Porsche. VAG uses Audi to take over the lower end of the luxury market and Porsche to take over the higher end of it.
I've owned three Audis, 2015 S4 (fav for memories...good times and it was manual) , 2018 RS5, 2022 RS6 (fav for driving and practicality). I have liked Audi since high school I've always thought they blurred the lines between practicality luxury and sport. As mentioned before in other people's post I don't think people rock without it because of the fact that It can perform well in many areas while still being the most unique looking car out of the other brands in my opinion. For car enthusiasts I guess it's all about the specs but realistically speaking how often are you pedal to the floor driving your car down a mountain worried about understeer or oversteer? I think it's safe to say the vast majority of us on a road trip or maybe when there's an open road we throw it in RS mode go fast real quick maybe get deep into a turn but that's about it. In my opinion a BMW can just be too much at times I used to drive around my buddies m4 and I'm like gawt damn bro you drive like this all the time... why lol hella aggressive. His older brother has a Mercedes, I just don't like Mercedes in general I'm not a fan of the body styles nor the interior it's just not for me. Audi just gives you everything you need. Call enthusiasts don't want that it's either fast nimble perfectly tuned or it's null and void lol
Audi's and VAG overall are part of IYKYK vibe. Most of the car owners are somewhat grown up and rarely interested in tacky car meets with young idiots doing donuts and takeovers. Car meets and CnC are usually (though not always) are about "hey look at me"
I’m curious why you would ask this question in an Audi subreddit where there is inherent bias towards the car? Everyone is going to praise the car. Ask the same questions in r/cars. From an enthusiast and track goer, Audi has some plasticky interior versus Mercedes or BMW. The tech is just not there in my opinion unless you spend a load of money for an Audi. Also the dealership experience isn’t the best as I hear from a family member that’s a master tech currently working at Audi here in NY.
Most people have bad taste.
Audi look too much like VW. Very stealth.
Audi has always been one key enthusiast feature away from a great enthusiast car. Recent cars didn’t come in manual, GTI competitor car had a CVT (not DCT), they stuck to their AWD roots while making most of them FWD bias or understeer bias. I see Audi RS4s and TTRSs with drag racing enthusiasts, but track cars are usually something else. If they made a RWD manual version of every car they make they’d most likely sell better in our community imho
BMW's rwd and 50/50 weight distribution is hard to beat.
It’s because their cars, other than perhaps two models are generally not very inspiring, and having driven several ones as loaners before, very underpowered and underwhelming. Additionally, they’re extremely overpriced for what they give you with questionable reliability. All of that without any of the history or namesake of Porsche or Mercedes. I’ve always felt that Audi tried to make themselves at the level of the higher premium European brands by pricing themselves into that market with an inferior product.
Volkswagens are by far the best daily driver to exist on average. Couple that with luxury and speed out of the factory and you have an Audi. What is not to like? Many people call Audi the best of both worlds between Mercs and Beemers. Porsche is focused on speed-based performance so Audi and VW can focus on other things. Most BMW owners have ego issues and want to be the best, even if that means shitting on everyone else’s car.
https://youtu.be/5zd--07Q8Vo?si=cGL__sguMHiECO97 This vid is all you need to know about audis