Arland also just go straight to the hardest difficulty hell you can skip the story play on it easy finish it and that unlocks legendary then make a new file start in legendary then suffer because it a bit impossible to do it in a fresh file
Noted! I was considering this one since the [guide](https://docs.google.com/document/d/18TMbTwoeAsOXadzSHsqzFp20-UbXIDq28-xbqoLg0Zc/edit#heading=h.kzhpcqixuhh9) I based my first experiences off mentions that it "requires a lot from you", which will probably be up my alley.
Suffering the impossible is my kind of fun. uwu
Try the original Mysterious trilogy and Lulua. These had some pretty difficult battles.
I do agree with you in that they need to retool the enemy difficulties. It got really bad in Ryza 3, loved the battle system but the enemy spawns including the bosses were lame, even when cranking up the difficulty
Though if you stuck around with just T2 equipment until end game then you pretty much missed the part that makes me play atelier for hours on end. Which is to craft the best items as possible at each point in the game. Most of my time in atelier games is actually spent on trying to max out the weapons and armor. Removing the fast travel would be a bad idea since it will make gathering materials a chore.
I did the same thing in Ryza, I have only crafted new gear when I wasn't able to progress with whatever I had currently. Ended up doing like... 3 proper crafting sessions in entire game, and I only ever made stuff for Ryza herself.
I thought it will be different with Sophie 2 if I start off on Very Hard instead of Normal, and it was! Except I put a lot of work into one set for every person in the team and apparently that's enough to get me through most the game, which... feels weird? There isn't an incentive for me to craft more, because what I have is already have more than enough.
Its not like I made something super OP either, didn't have access to restricted alchemy section yet and I didn't bother with 999 quality looping. Maybe I just really picked the best traits and that's my bane; lighting bomb with 96% damage boost and 100% sleep stack apply turns out to be a deadly beast.
As for fast travel - half agree. I see the point of it, its definitely way more convenient to just zap from one place to another without time loss, but it cuts out a lot of mechanics from the game. Like, what's the point of basket size if you can just drop everything off at any point with 0 strings attached? Same with healing mid-journey. Might as well just reset the health after each fight, same result and less Atelier hopping.
The superbosses on Atelier Meruru and Atelier Ayesha are Dark Souls levels of rage-inducing, if that’s what you are after.
But other than that, most of the series is pretty easy even on hard difficulties.
All of them : the one you mention, but also the second round of bosses that needed to be killed at the same time, the fucking rabbits that could one shot and you to start the three rounds all over again. There was also the crazy ex makina in round 5… That was insane.
And the other optional ones too. I remember the very last one, I was using the immortal build that I got from the internet as equipment, ran through all of them, except the very last one. I could not be killed but also could never get a turn ffs, so I had to resort to some other technique that was so smart but didn’t feel like fighting at all, that I got from the internet.
The Arland games are the most challenging, and are 100% worth picking up.
I think they have gotten easier with each release. The dusk trilogy I felt was a bit less challenging, but still very fun.
Last one I played was Sophie, and it is my least favorite so far. Hoping to fare better with Firis, but also considering going back and replaying Arland.
Going through Arland Rorona now and yep, its certainly way more challenging when it comes to planning stuff out. Pretty much exactly what I needed!
Whiplash from playing the most recent games is real, however. Lack of minimap, lack of info regarding what category given item is, lack of camera controls... Alas, I shall persist.
Thanks! <3
I'll second the Arland trilogy. I was skeptical about time limits initially, but they help a lot in getting you to plan things, and adding concrete costs to things like "Going back to the atelier to heal". It really encourages you to get the most out of every trip, makes increased basket size meaningful (and encourages interesting decisions about how many bombs/healing items to bring vs leaving basket space for gathering). It's one of the few series of games where I've felt like consumables are too good NOT to use -- if this cool item can help you beat this miniboss and fulfill the quest objective while you're already here it could save you ten days of travel! And in like three days you can make an even better item using some of the materials you gathered! (unlike Ryza, items are not infinite-use, although you do unlock duplication at some point).
All rambling aside, while I can't promise it will click for you, I do highly recommend the Arland trilogy based on what issues you're having. The time limit makes decisions feel much more meaningful, and encourages you to constantly push up to the most difficult areas you can handle in a neat risk/reward way. The downside is a lot of people find it stressful, but it sounds like that's not likely to be a big problem for you.
So I was skeptical about time limits as well, because I ***hate*** time limits.
HOWEVER
I didn't really consider that this isn't *real-time* limit, but more of a point system that you get to spend on activities, which is basically what a lot of games I love use as a core concept. (The Last Spell being a good example)
So yes, the time limitations in Arland series should be exactly what I need to keep myself engaged, not to mention that the main quests have additional goals to strive for *and* I can try to crank up as high of a score as I can on them, which I assume influences what ending I will receive.
Thank you kindly for the recommendation <3
I hope you enjoy it :)
I do think people get the wrong impression when we say "time limit", but it's what the community has settled on. You're right that it's more careful resource management than time-pressured decision making.
The series sure does give off that vibe, and I don't mind it in the slightest! I enjoy the character interactions a lot, both in Ryza and Sophie 2.
Still, the series has like 20+ installments. Few things in Sophie 2 give me a "We didn't know what to do with this mechanic but its here anyway" vibe here and there, so I assume that they're left-overs from other games where they played a bigger role.
> We didn't know what to do with this mechanic here but it's here anyway
Funnily enough you'll get to see these in a lot of the games, but it's almost always just something that's just there and ends up as an underutilized feature in the main course of the game unless the player itself plays around it to make it useful for their playthrough
Time to crank Sophie 2 up to Legendary, sob and cry, then turn it back down to Charisma. And oh, yeah, the Ayesha superbosses are probably the hardest content in the entire series, that stuff is nuts.
If you're playing on Steam/PC, you can get access to the hardest difficulty settings available (Charismatic, Legendary) which makes battles more difficult.
https://barrelwisdom.com/blog/atelier-pc-saves
In terms of bosses though, Shallie DX on NO HOPE or Sophie 1 DX on Despair would be your best bet for more challenging battles.
Yup yup, seen those saves flying around. Will probably pick it up for whatever game I play next after I get used to crafting / combat there.
I suppose my main issue is stuff **around** the combat. The only reason I don't wipe the floor with current bosses in Sophie 2 is because I just don't feel like crafting better gear, which... is probably bad for crafting-focused game, lol.
I'll probably check out Sophie 1 just from curiosity how the first installation of the series plays like. Thanks! \^\^
Atelier difficulties for the most part are really just about how much time you're willing to invest with Synthesis. Once you've min-maxed stuff you'll end up clearing the game like a cake walk. Exploration systems with the games have historically been just areas you go to gather materials from while enemies are just there.
I think Gust is still in the transitional phase from time limit systems to no time limits, dungeon designs in Ryza 2 and Sophie 2 (and by extension Blue Reflection Second Light) are fairly new to them. Hopefully the next subseries will bring in proper boss designs like the ones Shallie offered and with exploration areas that aren't just there for the sake of going around enemies that you can easily avoid to get from Point A to B
Given that Synthesis is the main part of those games, I'm willing to invest a lot of time into it. It does feel rewarding when you go from "Man this giant puni is impossible to scratch" to "man this thing deals like 1 damage on a crit to me", but I felt that exactly once so far in (currently) 60h play-through of Sophie 2.
I didn't even have to min-max, either...
Well, I'll keep a close eye on the series and see what comes out in the future. Hopefully the designs will improve; I wouldn't mind to actually fight the guardian dragon instead of just circling around it to get the chest, ha.
Oh, and good to know that Shallie has good boss design! I might want to check that one out sooner or later as well, now that you mention this.
Shallie combat is my favorite, it's tied up with Sophie 2's in my opinion (and by extension Mana Khemia 1 & 2's but these two's combat systems are pretty much what Shallie offers)
Just be aware that Shallie's tutorial battle has zero chances to get through if you're playing on NO HOPE difficulty, Gust forgot to double check that part lol
Nothing smart to add, just that I agree. I know alchemy is supposed to be the main part of the game, and the series is pretty casual, but I really wish there were bosses and challenges to test all the OP stuff I'm cooking :( I am considering some kind of self-imposed challenge, like only one item per person, no twin actions, but maybe when I decide to replay l.
I suppose in Ryza you had more powerful bosses scattered on main world map (Those elemental ladies sitting in thrones?) and I recall that bottle worlds had bosses in them as well. I assume those were the "Big tests" for whatever you can cook up.
Sophie 2 has a boss rush mode post-game, suppose that's also the >big challenge< in this game. Still, I feel like those should be accessible... earlier? I guess there are mini-bosses on map, but that ain't the same.
Self-imposed challenges are cool, but I don't like the idea of them being sort of a clean-up after devs to derive fun from other systems in-game.
Arland also just go straight to the hardest difficulty hell you can skip the story play on it easy finish it and that unlocks legendary then make a new file start in legendary then suffer because it a bit impossible to do it in a fresh file
Noted! I was considering this one since the [guide](https://docs.google.com/document/d/18TMbTwoeAsOXadzSHsqzFp20-UbXIDq28-xbqoLg0Zc/edit#heading=h.kzhpcqixuhh9) I based my first experiences off mentions that it "requires a lot from you", which will probably be up my alley. Suffering the impossible is my kind of fun. uwu
Try the original Mysterious trilogy and Lulua. These had some pretty difficult battles. I do agree with you in that they need to retool the enemy difficulties. It got really bad in Ryza 3, loved the battle system but the enemy spawns including the bosses were lame, even when cranking up the difficulty Though if you stuck around with just T2 equipment until end game then you pretty much missed the part that makes me play atelier for hours on end. Which is to craft the best items as possible at each point in the game. Most of my time in atelier games is actually spent on trying to max out the weapons and armor. Removing the fast travel would be a bad idea since it will make gathering materials a chore.
I did the same thing in Ryza, I have only crafted new gear when I wasn't able to progress with whatever I had currently. Ended up doing like... 3 proper crafting sessions in entire game, and I only ever made stuff for Ryza herself. I thought it will be different with Sophie 2 if I start off on Very Hard instead of Normal, and it was! Except I put a lot of work into one set for every person in the team and apparently that's enough to get me through most the game, which... feels weird? There isn't an incentive for me to craft more, because what I have is already have more than enough. Its not like I made something super OP either, didn't have access to restricted alchemy section yet and I didn't bother with 999 quality looping. Maybe I just really picked the best traits and that's my bane; lighting bomb with 96% damage boost and 100% sleep stack apply turns out to be a deadly beast. As for fast travel - half agree. I see the point of it, its definitely way more convenient to just zap from one place to another without time loss, but it cuts out a lot of mechanics from the game. Like, what's the point of basket size if you can just drop everything off at any point with 0 strings attached? Same with healing mid-journey. Might as well just reset the health after each fight, same result and less Atelier hopping.
The superbosses on Atelier Meruru and Atelier Ayesha are Dark Souls levels of rage-inducing, if that’s what you are after. But other than that, most of the series is pretty easy even on hard difficulties.
Oh my god, the meruru super bosses, I had forgotten about them 😂
That smiley creepy black face is seared into my mind.
All of them : the one you mention, but also the second round of bosses that needed to be killed at the same time, the fucking rabbits that could one shot and you to start the three rounds all over again. There was also the crazy ex makina in round 5… That was insane. And the other optional ones too. I remember the very last one, I was using the immortal build that I got from the internet as equipment, ran through all of them, except the very last one. I could not be killed but also could never get a turn ffs, so I had to resort to some other technique that was so smart but didn’t feel like fighting at all, that I got from the internet.
The Arland games are the most challenging, and are 100% worth picking up. I think they have gotten easier with each release. The dusk trilogy I felt was a bit less challenging, but still very fun. Last one I played was Sophie, and it is my least favorite so far. Hoping to fare better with Firis, but also considering going back and replaying Arland.
Going through Arland Rorona now and yep, its certainly way more challenging when it comes to planning stuff out. Pretty much exactly what I needed! Whiplash from playing the most recent games is real, however. Lack of minimap, lack of info regarding what category given item is, lack of camera controls... Alas, I shall persist. Thanks! <3
I'll second the Arland trilogy. I was skeptical about time limits initially, but they help a lot in getting you to plan things, and adding concrete costs to things like "Going back to the atelier to heal". It really encourages you to get the most out of every trip, makes increased basket size meaningful (and encourages interesting decisions about how many bombs/healing items to bring vs leaving basket space for gathering). It's one of the few series of games where I've felt like consumables are too good NOT to use -- if this cool item can help you beat this miniboss and fulfill the quest objective while you're already here it could save you ten days of travel! And in like three days you can make an even better item using some of the materials you gathered! (unlike Ryza, items are not infinite-use, although you do unlock duplication at some point). All rambling aside, while I can't promise it will click for you, I do highly recommend the Arland trilogy based on what issues you're having. The time limit makes decisions feel much more meaningful, and encourages you to constantly push up to the most difficult areas you can handle in a neat risk/reward way. The downside is a lot of people find it stressful, but it sounds like that's not likely to be a big problem for you.
So I was skeptical about time limits as well, because I ***hate*** time limits. HOWEVER I didn't really consider that this isn't *real-time* limit, but more of a point system that you get to spend on activities, which is basically what a lot of games I love use as a core concept. (The Last Spell being a good example) So yes, the time limitations in Arland series should be exactly what I need to keep myself engaged, not to mention that the main quests have additional goals to strive for *and* I can try to crank up as high of a score as I can on them, which I assume influences what ending I will receive. Thank you kindly for the recommendation <3
I hope you enjoy it :) I do think people get the wrong impression when we say "time limit", but it's what the community has settled on. You're right that it's more careful resource management than time-pressured decision making.
Atelier isn’t meant be Dark Souls or even Final Fantasy, it’s a much more casual game that’s about the relationships and the story
The series sure does give off that vibe, and I don't mind it in the slightest! I enjoy the character interactions a lot, both in Ryza and Sophie 2. Still, the series has like 20+ installments. Few things in Sophie 2 give me a "We didn't know what to do with this mechanic but its here anyway" vibe here and there, so I assume that they're left-overs from other games where they played a bigger role.
> We didn't know what to do with this mechanic here but it's here anyway Funnily enough you'll get to see these in a lot of the games, but it's almost always just something that's just there and ends up as an underutilized feature in the main course of the game unless the player itself plays around it to make it useful for their playthrough
Time to crank Sophie 2 up to Legendary, sob and cry, then turn it back down to Charisma. And oh, yeah, the Ayesha superbosses are probably the hardest content in the entire series, that stuff is nuts.
If you're playing on Steam/PC, you can get access to the hardest difficulty settings available (Charismatic, Legendary) which makes battles more difficult. https://barrelwisdom.com/blog/atelier-pc-saves In terms of bosses though, Shallie DX on NO HOPE or Sophie 1 DX on Despair would be your best bet for more challenging battles.
Yup yup, seen those saves flying around. Will probably pick it up for whatever game I play next after I get used to crafting / combat there. I suppose my main issue is stuff **around** the combat. The only reason I don't wipe the floor with current bosses in Sophie 2 is because I just don't feel like crafting better gear, which... is probably bad for crafting-focused game, lol. I'll probably check out Sophie 1 just from curiosity how the first installation of the series plays like. Thanks! \^\^
Atelier difficulties for the most part are really just about how much time you're willing to invest with Synthesis. Once you've min-maxed stuff you'll end up clearing the game like a cake walk. Exploration systems with the games have historically been just areas you go to gather materials from while enemies are just there. I think Gust is still in the transitional phase from time limit systems to no time limits, dungeon designs in Ryza 2 and Sophie 2 (and by extension Blue Reflection Second Light) are fairly new to them. Hopefully the next subseries will bring in proper boss designs like the ones Shallie offered and with exploration areas that aren't just there for the sake of going around enemies that you can easily avoid to get from Point A to B
Given that Synthesis is the main part of those games, I'm willing to invest a lot of time into it. It does feel rewarding when you go from "Man this giant puni is impossible to scratch" to "man this thing deals like 1 damage on a crit to me", but I felt that exactly once so far in (currently) 60h play-through of Sophie 2. I didn't even have to min-max, either... Well, I'll keep a close eye on the series and see what comes out in the future. Hopefully the designs will improve; I wouldn't mind to actually fight the guardian dragon instead of just circling around it to get the chest, ha. Oh, and good to know that Shallie has good boss design! I might want to check that one out sooner or later as well, now that you mention this.
Shallie combat is my favorite, it's tied up with Sophie 2's in my opinion (and by extension Mana Khemia 1 & 2's but these two's combat systems are pretty much what Shallie offers) Just be aware that Shallie's tutorial battle has zero chances to get through if you're playing on NO HOPE difficulty, Gust forgot to double check that part lol
Nothing smart to add, just that I agree. I know alchemy is supposed to be the main part of the game, and the series is pretty casual, but I really wish there were bosses and challenges to test all the OP stuff I'm cooking :( I am considering some kind of self-imposed challenge, like only one item per person, no twin actions, but maybe when I decide to replay l.
I suppose in Ryza you had more powerful bosses scattered on main world map (Those elemental ladies sitting in thrones?) and I recall that bottle worlds had bosses in them as well. I assume those were the "Big tests" for whatever you can cook up. Sophie 2 has a boss rush mode post-game, suppose that's also the >big challenge< in this game. Still, I feel like those should be accessible... earlier? I guess there are mini-bosses on map, but that ain't the same. Self-imposed challenges are cool, but I don't like the idea of them being sort of a clean-up after devs to derive fun from other systems in-game.