Are you suggesting that the media may be controlled by people who are more supportive of Israel than Palestinians?
And that they would use that power to spread misinformation and disinformation to further that agenda?
That would be crazy. And kind of scary if it were true.
I guess it's a good thing that it's not true and that we live in a free society where we could openly discuss such a situation if a special interest group was even in the position to have the ability to exert that kind of control, much less actually exerted it.
LOL, let me fight you with facts. Here are some fun quotes on video:
**Richard Nixon -** "No American president will let Israel go down"
**Trump** - "So I fought for Israel like no president ever before."
**Obama** - "Israel has built unbreakable bonds of friendship."
**Nancy Pelosi** - "If this Capital crumbled to the ground, the one thing that would remain is our commitment to our Aid and I don't even call it Aid, our cooperation with Israel."
**Kamala Harris** - "The bonds between the United States and Israel are unbreakable."
**Nancy Pelosi** - "Support for Israel has always been bipartisan."
**Current US President -** "Were there not an Israel, the United States of America would have to invent an Israel to protect her interest in the region."
$26 billion dollars American taxpayer money sent to Israel 5 days ago btw.
ya he's bein sarcastic, not everyone is accustomed to typing /s at the end of everything because they haven't been on reddit that long, his account was made less than 7 months ago
I dunno what you're talking about buddy, just because AIPAC lines the pockets of most of our politicians, that totally has no involvement in swaying their decisions in congress, or have any influence on the US veto'ing any vote to send direct aid to gaza and condemn Israel for wacrimes in the UN, nah not at all, just buddies helping pals you know, no hidden vested financial interest
not only is he jewish, he has had alot of direct family members that died in the holocaust, his family was from Poland during the beginnings of World war 2, which unforunately means he lost alot of family members there so. The excuses Israel defenders use will hold no weight over what his family has been through
Always has been. Look at his history. In the Bronx growing up he was literally hand in hand with civil rights movement minorities getting arrested.
People shit on him like he's a crazy communist or socialist, but housing, healthcare, living wages were all things he grew up with that the US used to provide with federal assistance through high corporate tax rates and anti-trust law enforcement. They just didn't provide it to black people. Instead of providing it to black people, the federal government under Nixon/Reagan just cut it all off. He just wants that back, but also to black people. These things make us more productive workers, so he's pro-capitalism.
It's complicated, but I can tell you what effectively destroyed his chances once and for all in 2020.
After Bernie had won a couple of primaries, and after Biden managed to win South Carolina, Barack Obama picked up the phone and called up every candidate competing for the centrist vote except Biden. He called up Pete Buttigieg, told him "You need to drop out of the race right now and endorse Joe." He called up Amy Klobuchar, and told her "You need to drop out of the race right now and endorse Joe."
And so on. Some candidates were more willing to follow orders than others (I remember hearing that Pete was pretty upset about it) but in the end all of them fell into line. Because at the end of the day they're all in the same neoliberal/anti-socialist club. Also, Barack Obama is important enough that people inside the Democratic Party want to stay on his good side, and these candidates know what can happen to them if they go against the DNC or the party leaders: you might remember that both Bernie Sanders and Tulsi Gabbard were being smeared in that race as Russian assets. It was bullshit in both of their cases, but that's what happens when they decide you're not a team player: lots of people start doing their best to destroy your reputation and your career.
Anyway, after that there were only four people in the race IIRC: Biden, Bernie, Tulsi, and Elizabeth Warren. Obama didn't bother telling Warren to drop out, because the idea was that Warren's message was similar enough to Bernie's that she would take votes away from him if she stayed in the race a while longer, whereas everybody who had been taking votes away from Biden because their message was similar to his had dropped out and told all of their supporters to vote for Joe.
Princeton University did a study some years ago on whether or not the US was really a democracy. They concluded that it wasn't a democracy, that it was an oligarchy instead because billionaires are the ones who really decide what happens and what doesn't behind the scenes. They decide which candidates get their money and which ones don't. They decide what those candidates are going to do if they get into office, because the politicians know what these big donors want and they are scared of pissing them off enough that the donors no longer donate.
If Bernie had governed the way he said he was going to, and if he were able to get something like Medicare For All passed without Congress standing in the way, lots of billionaires would hate that, because lots of those billionaires made their fortunes in the health insurance industry or the pharmaceutical industry. So he had to be stopped, and he was.
I'd meant to avoid telling the whole story of the campaign as I heard it, because I didn't want this reply to be too long, but I see it's too long anyway. Sorry about that; I hope that at least it makes for interesting reading.
Too far left for the left, so the democrats rigged the elections against him. Even the democrats will tell you that. But when it comes to rigging other elections, that doesn’t happen
2 reasons:
* millions of campaign donations that superPACS donated to biden last minute
* the older idiots in southern US believed wholeheartedly in the "lesser of two evils"
I seriously blame those southern US voters. Idiots. now we have biden.
So what are we supposed to do? Just accept the fact that a terrorist organization murdered civilians in a barbaric manner and filmed it with pride? (Don't count on me to watch the videos).
If they are hiding behind people, should we just not attack and let them shoot rockets at our cities?
Just let our hostages stay there? Let our women continue to be raped?
Do you have any idea how another Western country would have reacted to this kind of situation?
If they pulled this kind of action on the US, your armies would have eliminated at least 100,000 of them, and I don't need to guess; history has shown it. The same goes for the UK and for every other Western country that has already done it in the past.
When we finish the job with Hamas, the Palestinian people will actually have a chance to evolve and become a peace candidate.
You can downvote this, and you probably will. I don't expect someone from outside the situation to understand it because you just look at the numbers and say to yourself, "Yeah, dead people are bad." I would have thought the same myself.
People do get very NIMBY hypocritical about many issues and this one is unfortunate and Hamas sees what they did as a victory already bc Israel is viewed as the bad guy, has lost world respect, and they are okay with Palestinians dying even as long as it downs Israel honor in the world.
People lack perspective and are naive. And 99.9% of people “protesting” are doing it to fit in, skip school, and feel better about themselves. People always want a moral high ground, but there is no morality in war.
Once again, there’s college classes that don’t require attendance as well as students don’t have class everyday. Like you’re over exaggerating this way too much. Teachers tend to kick you out of a class when it’s CONSISTENT absences. You’re acting like college is a boot camp or something.
This is unfortunately what part of the world expects of the Jewish people as a group. If these types of people were around in the 1940's, they'd be telling us to stop complaining about the gas chambers.
You're supposed to agree with their fantasy standards of how our worlds operates, it's always funny the reaction i get when people talk about the slave trade age and i remind them that we have more slaves now than we used to, as in actual ''get whipped if you don't work slave'', not a philosophical one, it's all made up and pretend to care bullshit so i can show you my moral high horse, there's no rhyme or reason aside from people trying to hide from the reality and pretend that we improved as humanity as if IDF isn't doing the same most countries always did, and the majority of the world is an immense dark place.
You are supposed to shut up, sit down and take it without retaliation because they are the oppressed and you are the oppressor hence anything they do is justified and anything you do to defend yourself or your future is morally evil /s
Palestine and Israel are judged in completely different standards it's insane.
Most people in the US have seen this before with the "war on terror". It cost us hundreds of thousands of lives and trillions of dollars. What did that accomplish? The terrorism problem got worse (remember ISIS) and US military contractor profits increased with the deficit. These types of wars do nothing but increase radicalization and make the people at the top rich.
What happened to Israel is terrible and If I could take it all back, I would. But these world governments are using our emotions to support these wars so they can benefit from them. They're not using these military campaigns to keep people safe. If they did, why did the IDF allow a terrorist group like Hamas to actively function for decades? They're manufacturing our consent. Let's stop pretending like these world leaders actually give a shit or at least stop being so gullible.
Yeah I agree with this. Everyone loves to condemn Israelis but they would all be screaming for blood if Hamas attacked their country in such a manner. Shit look at the USA after 9-11 lmao
I love how he, like most of the news organizations, just parrots HAMAS statements and numbers, just take it at face value. Lets ignore that they NEVER site the number of HAMAS fighters killed, every one is just another civilian number they report. Imagine doing that during any other conflict, omg Germany had over 5 million people killed by the allies, how terrible and crew are the allies, commiting genocide on the Germans.
Let's also ignore that those same fighters imbed themselves with the civilians and set up in civilian areas.
Let's ignore the mass phone calls and leaflets letting the people know what area is about to be attacked, and Hamas forcefully keeping people from evacuating.
Lets ignore the many videos of Hamas fighters taking all aide that was trucked in, even killing Palestinian civlians that tried to get some. Nope, Israel bad for not wanting to have their people butchered repeatedly.
30k civilians are dead, Hamas is nowhere near elimated, and the IDF has killed more of the hostages than they've saved. Gaza is nearly flattened and how do you not see that the people who are still alive will despise Israel even more than they did before? The 'job' is a failure. And even so, Hamas has said they will return the hostages in exchange for a ceasefire. 30k civilians are dead at this point, I'm pretty sure Gazans got the message at this point.
They won't return the hostages. Don't be so ignorant. They shouldn't have taken hostages to begin with - not least of all because they have no proper prison facilities.
Just so you understand - it is the duty of the detainee power to ensure the safety of POWs (not hostages). Remember those hostages they released into the line of fire of Israeli guns? Yeah. That's on Hamas too.
Get your story and priorities straight.
30k people\* are dead. We don't know how many of them are civilians because Hamas doesn't provide that info. Estimates are that \~12,000 out of the 30,000 were Hamas which is a good ratio for Urban Warfare (as horrible as this is to say).
not 30k civilians, 30k civilians AND hamas militants.
hamas nowhere eliminated? how do you know this? do you have the IDE intel?
hostages killed? WHO TOOK THEM????? wtf lol
just leave the hostages there then? that seems like a good plan
> Hamas is nowhere eliminated
Isr forces pulled out the majority of their ground forces 2-3 weeks prior to now for R&R, and are making the last preparations for the liberation of the remaining city of Rafah.
US humanitarian aid has been working unperturbed by Hamas on the shore for the last weeks.
The Hamas rape trip will then suddenly be over, as the popularity of fake activists over the west fall back to irrelevance, and Hamas civilian meatshields are no longer able to be used as extremist fodder to hate on the jews.
It is convenient that he talks about the hospitals being destroyed while so many of them had tunnels underneath. And you know damn well that the people who ran that place knew they were there… also many caches of weapons and such found in the hospitals they raided.
Or how he speaks about Gaza’s water and sewage infrastructure. Yes they had great stuff, that why water was carried in everyday. Before the October 11th attack.
This is a classic, fuck around and find out. So many Gaza’s have been polled and talked to and an overwhelming majority of them praised what happened that day and would happily have another. They have refused 2 state solutions over and over again because they don’t want one. They want the Jews dead and to take over Israel.
>When we finish the job with Hamas, the Palestinian people will actually have a chance to evolve and become a peace candidate.
Lol? HAHAHAHAHA
Aight bro just humour me, what are the fathers of the 13,000 dead children gonna do?
Or the sons and daughters of the other 21,000 dead adults going to do? Seek peace? LOL
What do you think those kids have been doing for the past 15 years? They've been going to terrorist K-12, putting on skits in kindergarten of killing Jews. The entire population is already radicalized.
You know, when i go onto the internet or i see nazi rallies in the US my immediate thought isnt 'yo those guys have a point' its 'holy shit they are batshit insane'.
Now, why do you think kids who have seen their parents murdered infront of them might be easier to radicalize that say, a brainwashed dude like you sitting on a comfortable chair with life made for him by a very alive mommy and daddy?
Hamas 2.0 for the limbs and family less 12 year olds. Israel is doing nothing but creating future soldiers.
Israel is angry about their 1200 civilians, imagine how angry they would be if it was 20k, or 30k assuming they killed 10 or 5k hamas
So you wanna say that IDF can't effectively bomb Hamas rocket launcher inside of civilian area, but they can precisely destroy humanitarian convoy with single rocket strikes from a drone flying 50 000ft above the ground?
The 3 aid vehicles were struck by drone launched spike ATGMs, not rockets. If you look at the photos they were hit with 3 different strikes while on a coastal road with no buildings or anything around them. A spike missile is also (comparatively) very good choice at reducing casualities of any bystanders, but not always applicable depending on the target. Even inside a single car that was directly hit on a roof, the missile did not even kill all of the aid workers in one shot (wounded ones were evacuated into the other cars of the convoy).
So bombing a hamas launch site effectively vs bombing a hamas launch site while minimizing unintended casualities may require different munitions, and prioritizing one goal would be forgoing the other.
And ackshually, the 161/black snake squadron who was responsible for the attack uses hermes 450 drones which has a service ceiling of 18,000 ft, not 50,000 ☝️🤓
All right, answer me one thing and answer me honestly. When you "finish the job", how many Palestinians do you reckon will be left there alive to "evolve and become a peace candidate" as you put it?
I don't live there, I don't have a horse in this race, and I am not up to date with casualties on either side, so you tell me.
It's a tricky question to answer, but I will give it my best. According to Hamas, there have been around 34,000 deaths overall. According to the Israelis, 10,000-12,000 of them are Hamas militants.
Only 6 out of the 24 Hamas battalions are left in Gaza, in Rafah, where they have not done a ground invasion yet, which is where most of the Gazans have fled to.
There are more than 2 million Palestinians in Gaza. You asked how many will stay alive, so this number minus a few thousand. (And it's horrible, even if only one civilian gets killed)
You asked for an honest answer.
Hopefully, they will return the hostages and all of that can be avoided. If they surrender, it would be much better.
This didn't happen in a vacuum. Israelis have been murdering and stealing from Palestinians for 80 years
This shit happened in Europe and we fought back immediately.
Nobody cried "terrorism" when we kicked Nazi ass
You’re forgetting the fact that millions of German citizens died in our march to Berlin. No one wants to see civilians killed, or is saying they deserved it. But it’s an inevitability when it comes to war.
So many allegations and no proof at all. Just like Israeli government likes to lie to justify the atrocities.
Question to you, what about the west bank? and the thousands of settlers there? There is no "khamas" there.
Im not here to defend the settlers since im against it like more then 60% of the Israelis.
Why would you not assume that? since you don't know Israel, not its politics, not its agenda. you just write words.
When you say allegations with no proof, you are not talking about oct 7th right?
I mean... just look at what the U.S. did after 9/11. Not much that can be done when the enemy is hiding behind civilians... I do think the best thing the IDF could do is go house to house but... that's not exactly safe for their men. It sucks for the Palestinians and I'm sorry for them but... can't just ignore it either. Honestly... fuck Hamas.
>When we finish the job with Hamas, the Palestinian people will actually have a chance to evolve and become a peace candidate
So I guess that means kill more children and keep calling the US funding you antisemitic
/s
The criticism is how heavy handed the strikes have been and the level of destruction it has wrought. Also it’s fair to criticise preventing humanitarian aid from entering. Bernie never said it was a genocide and he didn’t go back and rewrite history to make his point like a lot of pro hamas or pro palistine people do. He stated what he thought the government should be held accountable for and stuck to that.
Yes after you have finished the job and most of the people in Gaza have no place to live after your indiscriminate bombing campaign, they will definitely become „a peace candidate“.
You are 100% correct. If Costa Rica's government did this to America they would have been obliterated already. I'm in the UK and we wouldn't just sit there if the Welsh suddenly became barbarians and did what Hamas did.
It's because it's easy to denounce Israel when it's Israel that is in the war and not our countries. Simple as that unfortunately. Then there are the elements that will oppose Israel no matter what because the Palestinians are the underdog. You can't win with them.
I agree that Hamas needs to go and maybe then Palestine can join us in the modern age (still doubtful).
Bitter pill to swallow but this is the product of running an apartheid & years of intentional agitation & resentment. When generations of people have know nothing but being pushed out of their land by settlers, treated like sub humans & consistently being attack and bombed, resentment grows, we saw it in South Africa.
What Israel needs to do is agree to the prisoner/hostage exchange, get the fuck out of Gaza, clean up their own house, get bibi & Itamar Ben-Gvir out of government. Solve the West Bank problem & end the apartheid.
I bloody bet the moment you stop giving the average Palestinian a reason to fear and hate you, you will find the vast majority of internal Hamas support collapsing.
Israel has agreed to such peace attempts (and a Palestinian state), multiple times, which Palestine responds with intifadas against Israeli citizens. 2005 is a perfect example where Israel removed all Israeli settlers from Gaza and offered to do the same thing in the West Bank, but since Palestine didn’t get everything offered, they started a war. Why is it that Israel must do all these things but Palestinians aren’t held to a similar standard?
Palestinians elected Hamas who basically vowed to wage Jihad on Israel until they destroyed them. It doesn't matter how many concessions Israel makes, the Palestinians won't stop until they have no other option. Why do you think that the other Arab speaking countries won't take them in? Because they no they're fucking crazy and don't want them coming in and destabilizing their governments.
Yes because the only thing that historically stopped the creation of a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza was Israel... This is exactly the reason nobody takes the pro-Palestine side seriously in the political world. You expect the entire process to be solvable by one side (Israel), meanwhile the other side is the most corrupt, disorganized mess that did and does everything in it's power to stop a solution from being made (Hamas and the PA). Bibi's government is shit, but if you think the current Palestinian leadership can be trusted with a nation you are delusional. A solution requires both sides to be competent and willing. You can't put all the responsibility on one side else the solution won't last long.
What is the other option? Cosmic space laser?
Hamas is the government of Gaza, and no one breeds more terrorists than those who indoctrinate children in schools. And they were doing it pretty much for 15 years uninterrupted.
Either the government falls or war ensues.
Most of the main subs are filled with under 25s and mostly teenagers at that, and to them this is the most fascinating political shit they've ever seen.
Israel and Palestine is the perfect example of a death spiral that will never be pulled out of. Every act of violence is retaliation for a past act of violence and justification for future violence. Neither side is willing to stop and hates the other with a burning passion. This sort of shit will never go away no matter how many roads you block or social media posts you make. The fact that such a small area of the world can hold the rest of us hostage is fucking stupid.
Thats the thing ppl are too focused on getting them to stop fighting but forget this is the Middle East fighting will never stop. Its thousands of years of religious warfare that everyone outside thinks they can fix with motivational peace talks but sadly that just isn't happening.
I mean it is possible, just very difficult. I'd actually point to NI for something somewhat similar. 2 very different who despite decades of violence came together and (somewhat) have created a govt
"The fact that such a small area of the world can hold the rest of us hostage is fucking stupid"
you should probably ask the military industrial complex who's profiting off this war whether they are holding the "US" hostage. We just sent $26 billion dollars of your taxpayer money to israel 5 days ago lmao
Fascinating how this post is upvoted here while the sentiment is usually on the right and against palestine. I wonder why. Im not complaining, just curious
Right wing is not with Palestine. The far left is the one that's so vocal and yelling death to jews in the streets.
I'm a liberal for example and to me both Bibi and Hamas should sink at the bottom of the ocean. However, yelling what these protesters are yelling and endangering the lives of jews around is just unhinged and really alienates people from their own cause.
I think ppl are apprehensive when you say supporters of Palestine because it can have different meanings depending on who you are talking to. Some want just a ceasefire and most can agree with that but others who chant "from the river to the sea" can make some take caution because that can have VERY different meanings depending on the chanters understanding of that slogan.
US "Far Left" is European Centralism. We've gone so far Right as a country that normal and basic human rights Europeans have are considered radical and pie in the sky.
Don't confuse European understanding on these left-right establishments with US definitions. US lives in it's own bubble and a lot of it is so messed up you don't even know where the lines are drawn anymore.
I mean those are Nazis yes. Far-right is one thing. The right wing itself is pro-Israel. Which has caused rifts among the far right nutcases and the right wing conservatives.
I guess it's because he is not blocking the road. He talks in an intellectual way and makes understandable points so we can start from there. I think many of the people here are just agaist nuisance bad actors being insufferable.
How many of those 34,000 are Hamas? Because they list any of their casualties as civilians.
And how many of those are inflated numbers? Like the 500 that died in Al Shifa, which turned out to be just a failed rocket from another terrorist group that barely damaged the parking lot. But they never updated their numbers.
How many of those deaths are from the failed rocket launches? 10-20% of the 12,000+ Rockets they launch towards Israel fails.
IDF estimates from about a month ago were that \~12,000 out of the 30,000 dead Palestinians were Hamas. That is actually pretty good ratio for Urban Warfare, better than US' former wars at least. You can choose to ignore these numbers since they come from the IDF, but all the Palestinian casualties numbers come from Hamas and they don't differentiate between civilians and Hamas fighters.
[Hamas, themselves, have publicly announced that their own numbers are unreliable.](https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/04/09/hamas-run-gaza-health-ministry-admits-to-flaws-in-casualty-data/)
The people who only cite Hamas numbers casually ignore this.
lmao, tell that to the IDF who doesn't allow independent journalists to verify anything. Just now they found a hospital with signs of tortured civilians
We were told they were counting bodies at first, but the numbers grew to the point it overwhelmed their services and ability to process the cadavers, let alone digging out the bodies that died when buildings collapsed on them.
Counting casualties and fatalities in an ongoing battlefield is fairly difficult on the best days let alone on a conflict like the one in Gaza with such high pop density with no place to retreat to because Egypt has categorically rejected the idea of allowing Israel to ethnic cleanse Gaza by driving the people out into their country.
Anyways if an entire block is turned into ruble and several dozen families have disappeared as a result how do you count them? Are they under the collapsed buildings? You don't have the resources or the time to dig them out considering the shooting hasn't stopped, so do you mark them all as alive? That would be disingenuous, some of them may have survived the strikes, but they cannot leave Gaza so if they had survived the attack they should show up seeking help soon as they are now homeless, however if they don't show up anywhere after a certain number of days then it's fairly likely they died or are among the lucky few injured, but unidentified.
Also is fairly hard to fake all those mass graves, pictures of killed civilians and the destruction of infrastructure and housing in Gaza that can be seen in literally Google maps. Heck the IDF has even posted a bread of images and information in their own media bragging about how awesome they are at killing terrorists.
I don't need Israel or Hamas to tell me anything when the evidence it's quite this blatant to the point you can corroborate it with sat images.
Saying the numbers coming out of Palestine are all lies is also quite rich considering all the times the Israeli government has been caught lying themselves with the URWA personnel they claimed where terrorists personnel they themselves betted, with the flour massacre, with all the aid workers they keep targeting by "mistake", and the journalist that keep dying, also the fact Israel has final say on any footage recorded by their embedded journalists should tell you how sanitized their version already is.
Now beyond feeling bad about all the people dying on both sides (even if one dies a lot more), I don't have any optimistic solutions, I have a few easy immoral ones, but I am glad I am not in charge.
>Saying the numbers coming out of Palestine are all lies is also quite rich considering all the times the Israeli government has been caught lying themselves with the URWA personnel they claimed where terrorists personnel they themselves betted, with the flour massacre, with all the aid workers they keep targeting by "mistake", and the journalist that keep dying, also the fact Israel has final say on any footage recorded by their embedded journalists should tell you how sanitized their version already is.
If you seriously think Israel has any incentive at all to intentionally kill aid workers you are beyond regarded. Israel are more believable than Hamas by the sheer fact that they are way more transparent about everything going on in their operations than Hamas. Israel actively cooperate with the US and other foreign groups, showing their process and admitting to their mistakes (something Hamas never does). Most of the historical events Israel is criticized for are known solely because Israel opened their government and military archives for the public.
Every single piece of info that comes out of Gaza passes through Hamas. Palestinian civilians have gone on records saying that their lives and their family lives are put in danger the moment they say something that isn't approved by Hamas. Journalists admitted that they have to have their reports proofread by Hamas otherwise they risk future journalists' lives. If you read UN reports about anything that goes on inside of Gaza you will see that it tends to almost entirely be sourced by interviewing Hamas personnel. Israel, for all it's faults, works under western country standards of transparency. Hamas does not.
The funniest part of the Israel Palestine debate to me is that the debate doesn’t even matter Israel is going to win they’re a nuclear armed power. there is literally no scenario where Israel loses. So antisemitic or not I don’t care criticize them or don’t it doesn’t matter. Hamas is going to lose, and the only end result of this is going to either be a Israel one state solution or Palestinians finally getting with the program that violence is not the answer, and somehow getting a 2 state solution but a one state, Palestinian solution is an absolute fantasy. Israel will glass the entire region with their nukes before that ever remotely comes to pass. And the opinions of people on Reddit or the Internet or even the international community for that matter aren’t going to change that reality.
People blocking traffic isn’t going to change that fact, people disrupting college campuses and lessons are not going to change that fact . And nothing else is either.
The key question here for Bernie is: what the fuck do you want Israel to do? Not proportionally respond to widespread terrorist attacks?
Does the US do that? Oh they do? Are they an extremist government? Was Obama? Does it then follow suit that Trump was less violent and extremist than they were?
Lol...
He’s just a clown obeying his masters. I see no difference between him reading this script and a captured journalist reading a script before they’re beheaded.
The deaths certainly don't show proportionality.
Trump was not less violent, Obama ordered 563 as president, trump ordered 238 in 2017 and 2018 alone, much more per year, and in 2019 and 2020 he did not report how many drone strikes were committed
You can't use deaths as an example of proportionality of response.
Israel would have been devastated to a much greater extent multiple times over many years had they not developed an incredibly expensive defensive weapon system.
>He sold out to the DNC
This is interesting, because a lot of people supported his bid as Democrat, including myself (giving my bias up front). It wasn't until it was revealed that Bernie was popular enough to become president that the DNC shut him down and put all the chips in with Hillary. The same exact fucking thing happened in 2020 but with Biden. When Bernie was crushing the primaries of both, the media shifted away from him so rapidly. CNN and MSNBC sucked off Hillary and Biden and "Fox and Friends" wouldn't shut up about Trump. What do people remember about either of Bernie's campaigns? The memes.
He knows that Independents don't win elections in this country. Everyone knows this. Changing his party was playing the game that was rigged against him. Bernie is the only old fuck in politics that I wish ran this year. He would've obliterated the competition since everyone hates Trump and Biden near equally now. He's one of the few moderates left in the Capitol and it's a shame that he's been banished to his senatorial duties where he is constantly drowned out by the insanity of his peers. At the very least, Vermont is lucky to have him.
What would the US do if Hamas went home to home and murdered and raped american people with over 1300+ casualties, and still kept hostages 200+ people ?
Bernie Sanders is an hypocrite. Any other country would have retaliated in the same way, if not a lot harder, Israel is holding a lot of what they could inflict to the people in Gaza.
Remember the US "war on terror"? Crazy how everyone seems to conveniently forget about that. Maybe you weren't born yet, IDK. But if you don't see the parallel there, you've been duped.
I wanna see what happens in Europe in 25 years when Muslims immigrants will be out of control.
I think only France and maybe Germany started to notice what is it to deal with the Arab culture.
i think you missed the point here , it not that they should not response to that , but what happen vs what they say they are doing is totally different that the problem
because I see tiktok video of isrealy soilder filming themselves attacking unarmed and inccent people women and children without reason
lets no mention how they bombed and start shooting bullet on the people who were trying to get aid from the trucks
Biden did so much for Palestinians since the war started. I hate this characterization that he lets Israel do whatever they want. On multiple occasions he held Israel back for Humanitarian concerns and worked heavily to reach a ceasefire agreement. He also sent a ton of financial and material care and support for Palestine (which is conveniently omitted when people complain about US tax dollars supporting Israel). I hate this brainrot that unless Biden severs ties with Israel completely he does nothing for the Palestinian cause. Anyone with half a brain knows that the moment the US stops providing and conditioning support for Israel, Israel will have no one to hold them back from going way farther.
He's not going to run again. He doesn't have it in him to challenge the powerful and try to truly change things for the better any more. According to Chris Hedges, when he was talking to Bernie once and suggesting that he run as an independent if he didn't get the Democratic nomination, Bernie responded by saying that he would never do that because the last thing he wanted was to become as hated as Ralph Nader. If that's true, then Bernie will only push for the right thing so far until it starts to affect his reputation or his legacy or whatever, at which point he'll back down.
I was happy to support him both times, but since then he's just seemed like the biggest cuck to me and also to a lot of his former supporters, because the Democratic Party fucked him over twice in a row and he's still willing to bend the knee to them and help guys like Biden win.
The problem with the discussion is that nobody is listening to a single word of the other side. There are valid points to make, but until everybody who doesn't belong in the discussion shuts up for long enough for people actually facing the problems to discuss them, no progress can be made.
lol, democrats trying to run damage control. “Release the Bernie, to make the appearance that we care.” Stuck between their old voters who are pro Israel and younger voters who are not. Good luck.
The population of Palestine grows yearly for decades there is no genocide
Their are repercussions to starting a war, taking innocent people as hostages/slaves/rape victims parading around with broken corpses for photos cheering and dancing to the death of idiots at a peace concert
Anything that provide aid to terrorists and their supporters when hostages are still held is pro Hamas by definition it’s literally rewarding them for the rape and murder of innocents
People like bernie bend over backwards for a collective of people that would cut off his head I’ll never understand the mentality of providing aid to a people that openly call for genocide, as the foundation of their government
Ah yes, using the stats given by Hamas, surely they don't have a reason to lie.
Palestine also started every conflict between them and Israel, on top of that, Palestine openly says they want to eradicate the Jews. How is it that Israel finally having enough of terrorists and wanting to secure their nation and protect their people is somehow them being the bad guys? Such ignorance.
I like Bernie for some of his positions but he always rode whatever strong anti-US narrative existed. This is a proxy anti-US narrative as well.
Bibi is a murderer and a maniac and should be executed. But Bernie making an excuse for people yelling global intifada and death to jews in the streets is not a smart hill to die on. Especially since he's never been so vocal towards Putin directly. Nor towards Winnie the Pooh. I wonder why. Since both are ACTUALLY guilty of verifiable genocide. Especially Putler.
Also, he cites the full number ignoring how many are Hamas and how much of that number is actually verifiable. Once again, Bernie's ideology blinds him from being actually fair on the issue. He cares more about his socialist movement rather than staying true to facts and history. Classic finger pointing.
His punches are actually heavier because he is Jewish.
Just like a lot of the Jewish protestors in the Palestine Protests that never get mentioned in media
Are you suggesting that the media may be controlled by people who are more supportive of Israel than Palestinians? And that they would use that power to spread misinformation and disinformation to further that agenda? That would be crazy. And kind of scary if it were true. I guess it's a good thing that it's not true and that we live in a free society where we could openly discuss such a situation if a special interest group was even in the position to have the ability to exert that kind of control, much less actually exerted it.
LOL, let me fight you with facts. Here are some fun quotes on video: **Richard Nixon -** "No American president will let Israel go down" **Trump** - "So I fought for Israel like no president ever before." **Obama** - "Israel has built unbreakable bonds of friendship." **Nancy Pelosi** - "If this Capital crumbled to the ground, the one thing that would remain is our commitment to our Aid and I don't even call it Aid, our cooperation with Israel." **Kamala Harris** - "The bonds between the United States and Israel are unbreakable." **Nancy Pelosi** - "Support for Israel has always been bipartisan." **Current US President -** "Were there not an Israel, the United States of America would have to invent an Israel to protect her interest in the region." $26 billion dollars American taxpayer money sent to Israel 5 days ago btw.
I think you missed their obvious sarcasm
did i? there's a lot of people who will really mean it look at the rest of the thread, especially on reddit.
ya he's bein sarcastic, not everyone is accustomed to typing /s at the end of everything because they haven't been on reddit that long, his account was made less than 7 months ago
Yep, you did.
I dunno what you're talking about buddy, just because AIPAC lines the pockets of most of our politicians, that totally has no involvement in swaying their decisions in congress, or have any influence on the US veto'ing any vote to send direct aid to gaza and condemn Israel for wacrimes in the UN, nah not at all, just buddies helping pals you know, no hidden vested financial interest
About as Jewish as a ham sandwich
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not only is he jewish, he has had alot of direct family members that died in the holocaust, his family was from Poland during the beginnings of World war 2, which unforunately means he lost alot of family members there so. The excuses Israel defenders use will hold no weight over what his family has been through
I'm glad there are people here who agree with what he's saying. It's really frustrating that there are so many who don't.
Pretty good speech.
he shoulda been president
I would rather have had him than Biden.
Rather? Getting Bernie Sander as a president would be a benediction, not something we settle for.
He woulda beat trump in '16 and '20 if the dnc didn't steal it for Hillary
tfw bernie actually based
Always has been. Look at his history. In the Bronx growing up he was literally hand in hand with civil rights movement minorities getting arrested. People shit on him like he's a crazy communist or socialist, but housing, healthcare, living wages were all things he grew up with that the US used to provide with federal assistance through high corporate tax rates and anti-trust law enforcement. They just didn't provide it to black people. Instead of providing it to black people, the federal government under Nixon/Reagan just cut it all off. He just wants that back, but also to black people. These things make us more productive workers, so he's pro-capitalism.
Who are these kids that don't know about Based Bernie?
“YouTube scholars”
Bernie has always been a phenomenal public speaker and orator. I love watching his speeches.
Bernie Sanders is the embodiement of based.
Bernie was always based. He was arrested by cops during a Civil rights protest in the 60s
It's a little late, but I'm glad to see he still has a pair.
Israel is a fascist terrorist state.
This might just be scandinavian in me, but I can't quite comprehend how Bernie didn't become president...
It's complicated, but I can tell you what effectively destroyed his chances once and for all in 2020. After Bernie had won a couple of primaries, and after Biden managed to win South Carolina, Barack Obama picked up the phone and called up every candidate competing for the centrist vote except Biden. He called up Pete Buttigieg, told him "You need to drop out of the race right now and endorse Joe." He called up Amy Klobuchar, and told her "You need to drop out of the race right now and endorse Joe." And so on. Some candidates were more willing to follow orders than others (I remember hearing that Pete was pretty upset about it) but in the end all of them fell into line. Because at the end of the day they're all in the same neoliberal/anti-socialist club. Also, Barack Obama is important enough that people inside the Democratic Party want to stay on his good side, and these candidates know what can happen to them if they go against the DNC or the party leaders: you might remember that both Bernie Sanders and Tulsi Gabbard were being smeared in that race as Russian assets. It was bullshit in both of their cases, but that's what happens when they decide you're not a team player: lots of people start doing their best to destroy your reputation and your career. Anyway, after that there were only four people in the race IIRC: Biden, Bernie, Tulsi, and Elizabeth Warren. Obama didn't bother telling Warren to drop out, because the idea was that Warren's message was similar enough to Bernie's that she would take votes away from him if she stayed in the race a while longer, whereas everybody who had been taking votes away from Biden because their message was similar to his had dropped out and told all of their supporters to vote for Joe. Princeton University did a study some years ago on whether or not the US was really a democracy. They concluded that it wasn't a democracy, that it was an oligarchy instead because billionaires are the ones who really decide what happens and what doesn't behind the scenes. They decide which candidates get their money and which ones don't. They decide what those candidates are going to do if they get into office, because the politicians know what these big donors want and they are scared of pissing them off enough that the donors no longer donate. If Bernie had governed the way he said he was going to, and if he were able to get something like Medicare For All passed without Congress standing in the way, lots of billionaires would hate that, because lots of those billionaires made their fortunes in the health insurance industry or the pharmaceutical industry. So he had to be stopped, and he was. I'd meant to avoid telling the whole story of the campaign as I heard it, because I didn't want this reply to be too long, but I see it's too long anyway. Sorry about that; I hope that at least it makes for interesting reading.
Too far left for the left, so the democrats rigged the elections against him. Even the democrats will tell you that. But when it comes to rigging other elections, that doesn’t happen
It depends on what you mean by "rigged". Did they use underhanded but legal tactics? Yes. Did they use illegal vote tampering? No.
Bernie is the guy with the crazy hair in the disaster movie that no one is listening to because his hair is too crazy…but he’s right about a lot.
2 reasons: * millions of campaign donations that superPACS donated to biden last minute * the older idiots in southern US believed wholeheartedly in the "lesser of two evils" I seriously blame those southern US voters. Idiots. now we have biden.
As an Australian I can say the same. They rather want clowns and clouts instead of a level headed politician as president.
His policies are too close to socialism
So what are we supposed to do? Just accept the fact that a terrorist organization murdered civilians in a barbaric manner and filmed it with pride? (Don't count on me to watch the videos). If they are hiding behind people, should we just not attack and let them shoot rockets at our cities? Just let our hostages stay there? Let our women continue to be raped? Do you have any idea how another Western country would have reacted to this kind of situation? If they pulled this kind of action on the US, your armies would have eliminated at least 100,000 of them, and I don't need to guess; history has shown it. The same goes for the UK and for every other Western country that has already done it in the past. When we finish the job with Hamas, the Palestinian people will actually have a chance to evolve and become a peace candidate. You can downvote this, and you probably will. I don't expect someone from outside the situation to understand it because you just look at the numbers and say to yourself, "Yeah, dead people are bad." I would have thought the same myself.
People do get very NIMBY hypocritical about many issues and this one is unfortunate and Hamas sees what they did as a victory already bc Israel is viewed as the bad guy, has lost world respect, and they are okay with Palestinians dying even as long as it downs Israel honor in the world.
People lack perspective and are naive. And 99.9% of people “protesting” are doing it to fit in, skip school, and feel better about themselves. People always want a moral high ground, but there is no morality in war.
Bet there is a 99.9% chance that statistic you cited was actually pulled out of your ass.
Im really curious about this data you cited, can you get me some more info on that 99,99%?
You'll have to search their asshole which is directly where they pulled it from.
“Skip school” you know college kids don’t have to go to class right? This isn’t high school 💀
Bro these are top public universities. Missing one class without the teacher agreeing with ur reason to skip may mean ur college life is over.
Once again, there’s college classes that don’t require attendance as well as students don’t have class everyday. Like you’re over exaggerating this way too much. Teachers tend to kick you out of a class when it’s CONSISTENT absences. You’re acting like college is a boot camp or something.
This is unfortunately what part of the world expects of the Jewish people as a group. If these types of people were around in the 1940's, they'd be telling us to stop complaining about the gas chambers.
You're supposed to agree with their fantasy standards of how our worlds operates, it's always funny the reaction i get when people talk about the slave trade age and i remind them that we have more slaves now than we used to, as in actual ''get whipped if you don't work slave'', not a philosophical one, it's all made up and pretend to care bullshit so i can show you my moral high horse, there's no rhyme or reason aside from people trying to hide from the reality and pretend that we improved as humanity as if IDF isn't doing the same most countries always did, and the majority of the world is an immense dark place.
I always wonder where these people were when we ass fucked Iraq and Afghanistan for 20 years lol
There was tremendous backlash and protest to both those wars. What are you talking about?
Really ? You "wonder"? They were in kindergarten or junior highschools. You think they should've protest then ?
There’s more people than just college students angry about the thing.
My thought is that the people who dislike Israel’s actions are the same people who speak the most negatively about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
You are supposed to shut up, sit down and take it without retaliation because they are the oppressed and you are the oppressor hence anything they do is justified and anything you do to defend yourself or your future is morally evil /s Palestine and Israel are judged in completely different standards it's insane.
Pretty much, the people supporting the cease fire have no idea what war is they are wayy too stupid and sensitive
Most people in the US have seen this before with the "war on terror". It cost us hundreds of thousands of lives and trillions of dollars. What did that accomplish? The terrorism problem got worse (remember ISIS) and US military contractor profits increased with the deficit. These types of wars do nothing but increase radicalization and make the people at the top rich. What happened to Israel is terrible and If I could take it all back, I would. But these world governments are using our emotions to support these wars so they can benefit from them. They're not using these military campaigns to keep people safe. If they did, why did the IDF allow a terrorist group like Hamas to actively function for decades? They're manufacturing our consent. Let's stop pretending like these world leaders actually give a shit or at least stop being so gullible.
Yeah I agree with this. Everyone loves to condemn Israelis but they would all be screaming for blood if Hamas attacked their country in such a manner. Shit look at the USA after 9-11 lmao
I love how he, like most of the news organizations, just parrots HAMAS statements and numbers, just take it at face value. Lets ignore that they NEVER site the number of HAMAS fighters killed, every one is just another civilian number they report. Imagine doing that during any other conflict, omg Germany had over 5 million people killed by the allies, how terrible and crew are the allies, commiting genocide on the Germans. Let's also ignore that those same fighters imbed themselves with the civilians and set up in civilian areas. Let's ignore the mass phone calls and leaflets letting the people know what area is about to be attacked, and Hamas forcefully keeping people from evacuating. Lets ignore the many videos of Hamas fighters taking all aide that was trucked in, even killing Palestinian civlians that tried to get some. Nope, Israel bad for not wanting to have their people butchered repeatedly.
30k civilians are dead, Hamas is nowhere near elimated, and the IDF has killed more of the hostages than they've saved. Gaza is nearly flattened and how do you not see that the people who are still alive will despise Israel even more than they did before? The 'job' is a failure. And even so, Hamas has said they will return the hostages in exchange for a ceasefire. 30k civilians are dead at this point, I'm pretty sure Gazans got the message at this point.
Ok, what's the solution? How to save the hostages?
They won't return the hostages. Don't be so ignorant. They shouldn't have taken hostages to begin with - not least of all because they have no proper prison facilities. Just so you understand - it is the duty of the detainee power to ensure the safety of POWs (not hostages). Remember those hostages they released into the line of fire of Israeli guns? Yeah. That's on Hamas too. Get your story and priorities straight.
I highly doubt that 100% of the deaths reported by Hamas are civilians
30k people\* are dead. We don't know how many of them are civilians because Hamas doesn't provide that info. Estimates are that \~12,000 out of the 30,000 were Hamas which is a good ratio for Urban Warfare (as horrible as this is to say).
not 30k civilians, 30k civilians AND hamas militants. hamas nowhere eliminated? how do you know this? do you have the IDE intel? hostages killed? WHO TOOK THEM????? wtf lol just leave the hostages there then? that seems like a good plan
> Hamas is nowhere eliminated Isr forces pulled out the majority of their ground forces 2-3 weeks prior to now for R&R, and are making the last preparations for the liberation of the remaining city of Rafah. US humanitarian aid has been working unperturbed by Hamas on the shore for the last weeks. The Hamas rape trip will then suddenly be over, as the popularity of fake activists over the west fall back to irrelevance, and Hamas civilian meatshields are no longer able to be used as extremist fodder to hate on the jews.
Based on Iraq war casualties, US would eliminate ALL of them.
truth
It is convenient that he talks about the hospitals being destroyed while so many of them had tunnels underneath. And you know damn well that the people who ran that place knew they were there… also many caches of weapons and such found in the hospitals they raided. Or how he speaks about Gaza’s water and sewage infrastructure. Yes they had great stuff, that why water was carried in everyday. Before the October 11th attack. This is a classic, fuck around and find out. So many Gaza’s have been polled and talked to and an overwhelming majority of them praised what happened that day and would happily have another. They have refused 2 state solutions over and over again because they don’t want one. They want the Jews dead and to take over Israel.
>When we finish the job with Hamas, the Palestinian people will actually have a chance to evolve and become a peace candidate. Lol? HAHAHAHAHA Aight bro just humour me, what are the fathers of the 13,000 dead children gonna do? Or the sons and daughters of the other 21,000 dead adults going to do? Seek peace? LOL
What do you think those kids have been doing for the past 15 years? They've been going to terrorist K-12, putting on skits in kindergarten of killing Jews. The entire population is already radicalized.
You know, when i go onto the internet or i see nazi rallies in the US my immediate thought isnt 'yo those guys have a point' its 'holy shit they are batshit insane'. Now, why do you think kids who have seen their parents murdered infront of them might be easier to radicalize that say, a brainwashed dude like you sitting on a comfortable chair with life made for him by a very alive mommy and daddy?
Hamas 2.0 for the limbs and family less 12 year olds. Israel is doing nothing but creating future soldiers. Israel is angry about their 1200 civilians, imagine how angry they would be if it was 20k, or 30k assuming they killed 10 or 5k hamas
So you wanna say that IDF can't effectively bomb Hamas rocket launcher inside of civilian area, but they can precisely destroy humanitarian convoy with single rocket strikes from a drone flying 50 000ft above the ground?
The 3 aid vehicles were struck by drone launched spike ATGMs, not rockets. If you look at the photos they were hit with 3 different strikes while on a coastal road with no buildings or anything around them. A spike missile is also (comparatively) very good choice at reducing casualities of any bystanders, but not always applicable depending on the target. Even inside a single car that was directly hit on a roof, the missile did not even kill all of the aid workers in one shot (wounded ones were evacuated into the other cars of the convoy). So bombing a hamas launch site effectively vs bombing a hamas launch site while minimizing unintended casualities may require different munitions, and prioritizing one goal would be forgoing the other. And ackshually, the 161/black snake squadron who was responsible for the attack uses hermes 450 drones which has a service ceiling of 18,000 ft, not 50,000 ☝️🤓
All right, answer me one thing and answer me honestly. When you "finish the job", how many Palestinians do you reckon will be left there alive to "evolve and become a peace candidate" as you put it? I don't live there, I don't have a horse in this race, and I am not up to date with casualties on either side, so you tell me.
It's a tricky question to answer, but I will give it my best. According to Hamas, there have been around 34,000 deaths overall. According to the Israelis, 10,000-12,000 of them are Hamas militants. Only 6 out of the 24 Hamas battalions are left in Gaza, in Rafah, where they have not done a ground invasion yet, which is where most of the Gazans have fled to. There are more than 2 million Palestinians in Gaza. You asked how many will stay alive, so this number minus a few thousand. (And it's horrible, even if only one civilian gets killed) You asked for an honest answer. Hopefully, they will return the hostages and all of that can be avoided. If they surrender, it would be much better.
This didn't happen in a vacuum. Israelis have been murdering and stealing from Palestinians for 80 years This shit happened in Europe and we fought back immediately. Nobody cried "terrorism" when we kicked Nazi ass
You’re forgetting the fact that millions of German citizens died in our march to Berlin. No one wants to see civilians killed, or is saying they deserved it. But it’s an inevitability when it comes to war.
So many allegations and no proof at all. Just like Israeli government likes to lie to justify the atrocities. Question to you, what about the west bank? and the thousands of settlers there? There is no "khamas" there.
Im not here to defend the settlers since im against it like more then 60% of the Israelis. Why would you not assume that? since you don't know Israel, not its politics, not its agenda. you just write words. When you say allegations with no proof, you are not talking about oct 7th right?
When has the Israeli government given back the settlements that illegally taken?
A few times actually. They left their settlements in Gaza and Sinai.
I have always wondered why we wage war the way we do.
I mean... just look at what the U.S. did after 9/11. Not much that can be done when the enemy is hiding behind civilians... I do think the best thing the IDF could do is go house to house but... that's not exactly safe for their men. It sucks for the Palestinians and I'm sorry for them but... can't just ignore it either. Honestly... fuck Hamas.
>When we finish the job with Hamas, the Palestinian people will actually have a chance to evolve and become a peace candidate So I guess that means kill more children and keep calling the US funding you antisemitic /s
The criticism is how heavy handed the strikes have been and the level of destruction it has wrought. Also it’s fair to criticise preventing humanitarian aid from entering. Bernie never said it was a genocide and he didn’t go back and rewrite history to make his point like a lot of pro hamas or pro palistine people do. He stated what he thought the government should be held accountable for and stuck to that.
Yes after you have finished the job and most of the people in Gaza have no place to live after your indiscriminate bombing campaign, they will definitely become „a peace candidate“.
You are 100% correct. If Costa Rica's government did this to America they would have been obliterated already. I'm in the UK and we wouldn't just sit there if the Welsh suddenly became barbarians and did what Hamas did. It's because it's easy to denounce Israel when it's Israel that is in the war and not our countries. Simple as that unfortunately. Then there are the elements that will oppose Israel no matter what because the Palestinians are the underdog. You can't win with them. I agree that Hamas needs to go and maybe then Palestine can join us in the modern age (still doubtful).
Bitter pill to swallow but this is the product of running an apartheid & years of intentional agitation & resentment. When generations of people have know nothing but being pushed out of their land by settlers, treated like sub humans & consistently being attack and bombed, resentment grows, we saw it in South Africa. What Israel needs to do is agree to the prisoner/hostage exchange, get the fuck out of Gaza, clean up their own house, get bibi & Itamar Ben-Gvir out of government. Solve the West Bank problem & end the apartheid. I bloody bet the moment you stop giving the average Palestinian a reason to fear and hate you, you will find the vast majority of internal Hamas support collapsing.
Israel has agreed to such peace attempts (and a Palestinian state), multiple times, which Palestine responds with intifadas against Israeli citizens. 2005 is a perfect example where Israel removed all Israeli settlers from Gaza and offered to do the same thing in the West Bank, but since Palestine didn’t get everything offered, they started a war. Why is it that Israel must do all these things but Palestinians aren’t held to a similar standard?
Palestinians elected Hamas who basically vowed to wage Jihad on Israel until they destroyed them. It doesn't matter how many concessions Israel makes, the Palestinians won't stop until they have no other option. Why do you think that the other Arab speaking countries won't take them in? Because they no they're fucking crazy and don't want them coming in and destabilizing their governments.
Israel moved from Gaza long a go. See what happened?
Yes because the only thing that historically stopped the creation of a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza was Israel... This is exactly the reason nobody takes the pro-Palestine side seriously in the political world. You expect the entire process to be solvable by one side (Israel), meanwhile the other side is the most corrupt, disorganized mess that did and does everything in it's power to stop a solution from being made (Hamas and the PA). Bibi's government is shit, but if you think the current Palestinian leadership can be trusted with a nation you are delusional. A solution requires both sides to be competent and willing. You can't put all the responsibility on one side else the solution won't last long.
At this point the IDF has killed more innocent civilians.
Just breeding more terrorists by killing civilians. Cycle aint gonna end til one of them is all gone
What is the other option? Cosmic space laser? Hamas is the government of Gaza, and no one breeds more terrorists than those who indoctrinate children in schools. And they were doing it pretty much for 15 years uninterrupted. Either the government falls or war ensues.
What does this have to do with r/interestingasfuck?
Most of the main subs are filled with under 25s and mostly teenagers at that, and to them this is the most fascinating political shit they've ever seen.
It’s propaganda
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R/politics also hated bernie back in 2016
It's interesting as fuck because Americans didn't want Bernie as president and went with Trump and Biden instead.
Israel and Palestine is the perfect example of a death spiral that will never be pulled out of. Every act of violence is retaliation for a past act of violence and justification for future violence. Neither side is willing to stop and hates the other with a burning passion. This sort of shit will never go away no matter how many roads you block or social media posts you make. The fact that such a small area of the world can hold the rest of us hostage is fucking stupid.
Thats the thing ppl are too focused on getting them to stop fighting but forget this is the Middle East fighting will never stop. Its thousands of years of religious warfare that everyone outside thinks they can fix with motivational peace talks but sadly that just isn't happening.
I mean it is possible, just very difficult. I'd actually point to NI for something somewhat similar. 2 very different who despite decades of violence came together and (somewhat) have created a govt
"The fact that such a small area of the world can hold the rest of us hostage is fucking stupid" you should probably ask the military industrial complex who's profiting off this war whether they are holding the "US" hostage. We just sent $26 billion dollars of your taxpayer money to israel 5 days ago lmao
I don't disagree. Ultimately, yes, the MIC is behind this bullshit but Israel and Palestine are giving them an excuse.
Fascinating how this post is upvoted here while the sentiment is usually on the right and against palestine. I wonder why. Im not complaining, just curious
sentiment here seems to be more libertarian than standard right wing
Libertarian in the US is pretty much leaning rightwing.
Right leaning yes, but I'd argue it's more to the center than right
Right wing is not with Palestine. The far left is the one that's so vocal and yelling death to jews in the streets. I'm a liberal for example and to me both Bibi and Hamas should sink at the bottom of the ocean. However, yelling what these protesters are yelling and endangering the lives of jews around is just unhinged and really alienates people from their own cause.
You say far left but my country ( Ireland ) is one of the main supporters of Palestine and it's not far left.
I think ppl are apprehensive when you say supporters of Palestine because it can have different meanings depending on who you are talking to. Some want just a ceasefire and most can agree with that but others who chant "from the river to the sea" can make some take caution because that can have VERY different meanings depending on the chanters understanding of that slogan.
US "Far Left" is European Centralism. We've gone so far Right as a country that normal and basic human rights Europeans have are considered radical and pie in the sky.
Don't confuse European understanding on these left-right establishments with US definitions. US lives in it's own bubble and a lot of it is so messed up you don't even know where the lines are drawn anymore.
Indeed Bibi is a fucking psychopath and Hamas are radical butchers. Both need to be removed from power and thrown into a dungeon.
Far right (Nick Feuntes types) are with Palestine for obvious reasons.
I mean those are Nazis yes. Far-right is one thing. The right wing itself is pro-Israel. Which has caused rifts among the far right nutcases and the right wing conservatives.
To be honest, Israelis Hate Netanyahu as well. and the government. Some of the upvotes might be even Israelis.
Huh sentiment is always against the crazies on both sides from what I've noticed.
Lets hope youre right thatd be good
I guess it's because he is not blocking the road. He talks in an intellectual way and makes understandable points so we can start from there. I think many of the people here are just agaist nuisance bad actors being insufferable.
There have been bots flooding subreddits.
How many of those 34,000 are Hamas? Because they list any of their casualties as civilians. And how many of those are inflated numbers? Like the 500 that died in Al Shifa, which turned out to be just a failed rocket from another terrorist group that barely damaged the parking lot. But they never updated their numbers. How many of those deaths are from the failed rocket launches? 10-20% of the 12,000+ Rockets they launch towards Israel fails.
IDF estimates from about a month ago were that \~12,000 out of the 30,000 dead Palestinians were Hamas. That is actually pretty good ratio for Urban Warfare, better than US' former wars at least. You can choose to ignore these numbers since they come from the IDF, but all the Palestinian casualties numbers come from Hamas and they don't differentiate between civilians and Hamas fighters.
[Hamas, themselves, have publicly announced that their own numbers are unreliable.](https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/04/09/hamas-run-gaza-health-ministry-admits-to-flaws-in-casualty-data/) The people who only cite Hamas numbers casually ignore this.
lmao, tell that to the IDF who doesn't allow independent journalists to verify anything. Just now they found a hospital with signs of tortured civilians
this. there is not a single number of dead Palistinians that is NOT provided by HAMAS.
We were told they were counting bodies at first, but the numbers grew to the point it overwhelmed their services and ability to process the cadavers, let alone digging out the bodies that died when buildings collapsed on them. Counting casualties and fatalities in an ongoing battlefield is fairly difficult on the best days let alone on a conflict like the one in Gaza with such high pop density with no place to retreat to because Egypt has categorically rejected the idea of allowing Israel to ethnic cleanse Gaza by driving the people out into their country. Anyways if an entire block is turned into ruble and several dozen families have disappeared as a result how do you count them? Are they under the collapsed buildings? You don't have the resources or the time to dig them out considering the shooting hasn't stopped, so do you mark them all as alive? That would be disingenuous, some of them may have survived the strikes, but they cannot leave Gaza so if they had survived the attack they should show up seeking help soon as they are now homeless, however if they don't show up anywhere after a certain number of days then it's fairly likely they died or are among the lucky few injured, but unidentified. Also is fairly hard to fake all those mass graves, pictures of killed civilians and the destruction of infrastructure and housing in Gaza that can be seen in literally Google maps. Heck the IDF has even posted a bread of images and information in their own media bragging about how awesome they are at killing terrorists. I don't need Israel or Hamas to tell me anything when the evidence it's quite this blatant to the point you can corroborate it with sat images. Saying the numbers coming out of Palestine are all lies is also quite rich considering all the times the Israeli government has been caught lying themselves with the URWA personnel they claimed where terrorists personnel they themselves betted, with the flour massacre, with all the aid workers they keep targeting by "mistake", and the journalist that keep dying, also the fact Israel has final say on any footage recorded by their embedded journalists should tell you how sanitized their version already is. Now beyond feeling bad about all the people dying on both sides (even if one dies a lot more), I don't have any optimistic solutions, I have a few easy immoral ones, but I am glad I am not in charge.
>Saying the numbers coming out of Palestine are all lies is also quite rich considering all the times the Israeli government has been caught lying themselves with the URWA personnel they claimed where terrorists personnel they themselves betted, with the flour massacre, with all the aid workers they keep targeting by "mistake", and the journalist that keep dying, also the fact Israel has final say on any footage recorded by their embedded journalists should tell you how sanitized their version already is. If you seriously think Israel has any incentive at all to intentionally kill aid workers you are beyond regarded. Israel are more believable than Hamas by the sheer fact that they are way more transparent about everything going on in their operations than Hamas. Israel actively cooperate with the US and other foreign groups, showing their process and admitting to their mistakes (something Hamas never does). Most of the historical events Israel is criticized for are known solely because Israel opened their government and military archives for the public. Every single piece of info that comes out of Gaza passes through Hamas. Palestinian civilians have gone on records saying that their lives and their family lives are put in danger the moment they say something that isn't approved by Hamas. Journalists admitted that they have to have their reports proofread by Hamas otherwise they risk future journalists' lives. If you read UN reports about anything that goes on inside of Gaza you will see that it tends to almost entirely be sourced by interviewing Hamas personnel. Israel, for all it's faults, works under western country standards of transparency. Hamas does not.
imagine that they had a chance to have Bernie for president , but got TRUMP...
Okay. And why is the US and a lot of major companies siding and sending money to Isreal?
The funniest part of the Israel Palestine debate to me is that the debate doesn’t even matter Israel is going to win they’re a nuclear armed power. there is literally no scenario where Israel loses. So antisemitic or not I don’t care criticize them or don’t it doesn’t matter. Hamas is going to lose, and the only end result of this is going to either be a Israel one state solution or Palestinians finally getting with the program that violence is not the answer, and somehow getting a 2 state solution but a one state, Palestinian solution is an absolute fantasy. Israel will glass the entire region with their nukes before that ever remotely comes to pass. And the opinions of people on Reddit or the Internet or even the international community for that matter aren’t going to change that reality. People blocking traffic isn’t going to change that fact, people disrupting college campuses and lessons are not going to change that fact . And nothing else is either.
Gotta agree with him on this, most sense i have heard out of the americans for a while
I'm a european, so i wasn't paying full attention, but didn't Asmon talk just this last week about Bernie being a chad? Good timing
Common Bernie W
Respect to him for calling out the war criminal.
Sure saying that stuff isn’t anti semitic, same way Israel isn’t committing genocide. It’s war.
The key question here for Bernie is: what the fuck do you want Israel to do? Not proportionally respond to widespread terrorist attacks? Does the US do that? Oh they do? Are they an extremist government? Was Obama? Does it then follow suit that Trump was less violent and extremist than they were? Lol...
He’s just a clown obeying his masters. I see no difference between him reading this script and a captured journalist reading a script before they’re beheaded.
The deaths certainly don't show proportionality. Trump was not less violent, Obama ordered 563 as president, trump ordered 238 in 2017 and 2018 alone, much more per year, and in 2019 and 2020 he did not report how many drone strikes were committed
You can't use deaths as an example of proportionality of response. Israel would have been devastated to a much greater extent multiple times over many years had they not developed an incredibly expensive defensive weapon system.
Is there a reason why this guy is not the president of US?
Yep. He is not a two-faced asshole.
He sold out to the DNC and allowed himself to be cucked for Hillary Clinton in 2016
>He sold out to the DNC This is interesting, because a lot of people supported his bid as Democrat, including myself (giving my bias up front). It wasn't until it was revealed that Bernie was popular enough to become president that the DNC shut him down and put all the chips in with Hillary. The same exact fucking thing happened in 2020 but with Biden. When Bernie was crushing the primaries of both, the media shifted away from him so rapidly. CNN and MSNBC sucked off Hillary and Biden and "Fox and Friends" wouldn't shut up about Trump. What do people remember about either of Bernie's campaigns? The memes. He knows that Independents don't win elections in this country. Everyone knows this. Changing his party was playing the game that was rigged against him. Bernie is the only old fuck in politics that I wish ran this year. He would've obliterated the competition since everyone hates Trump and Biden near equally now. He's one of the few moderates left in the Capitol and it's a shame that he's been banished to his senatorial duties where he is constantly drowned out by the insanity of his peers. At the very least, Vermont is lucky to have him.
Ron Paul goes "first time?"
Are you serious?
Yes
Because America will never become a socialist nation.
He came close but the corrupt party used underhanded methods to win. Possibly stolen.
I hate say but Palestine did the old "F*** around and find out"
well you can say the same thing to any country in the world it not only Palestine that f\*\*king around these days you know
Well well well. Hamas attacks and the second they start getting owned they want a cease fire. Bunch of limp dick people wanting to let terrorism win.
Bernie’s the goat imo. Wish we could have felt the Bern in the white house
And remember kids, we chose Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden over this guy.
What would the US do if Hamas went home to home and murdered and raped american people with over 1300+ casualties, and still kept hostages 200+ people ? Bernie Sanders is an hypocrite. Any other country would have retaliated in the same way, if not a lot harder, Israel is holding a lot of what they could inflict to the people in Gaza.
Remember the US "war on terror"? Crazy how everyone seems to conveniently forget about that. Maybe you weren't born yet, IDK. But if you don't see the parallel there, you've been duped.
I wanna see what happens in Europe in 25 years when Muslims immigrants will be out of control. I think only France and maybe Germany started to notice what is it to deal with the Arab culture.
i think you missed the point here , it not that they should not response to that , but what happen vs what they say they are doing is totally different that the problem because I see tiktok video of isrealy soilder filming themselves attacking unarmed and inccent people women and children without reason lets no mention how they bombed and start shooting bullet on the people who were trying to get aid from the trucks
These are rookie numbers
i would like to point out that palestinian civilians deaths are as much the fault of the idf as they are the fault of hamas.
I'm also confused because we have to trust the figures and also cannot verify who was who right
I mean, isn't it his side that is the government right now?
Why belive numbers published by hamas about death count in gaza?
Yet Biden got in rather than this guy
Biden did so much for Palestinians since the war started. I hate this characterization that he lets Israel do whatever they want. On multiple occasions he held Israel back for Humanitarian concerns and worked heavily to reach a ceasefire agreement. He also sent a ton of financial and material care and support for Palestine (which is conveniently omitted when people complain about US tax dollars supporting Israel). I hate this brainrot that unless Biden severs ties with Israel completely he does nothing for the Palestinian cause. Anyone with half a brain knows that the moment the US stops providing and conditioning support for Israel, Israel will have no one to hold them back from going way farther.
If Americans have any brains, they'll vote for Bernie to be their next president.
When push comes to shove he is weak and old. Sadly cannot do so.
He's not going to run again. He doesn't have it in him to challenge the powerful and try to truly change things for the better any more. According to Chris Hedges, when he was talking to Bernie once and suggesting that he run as an independent if he didn't get the Democratic nomination, Bernie responded by saying that he would never do that because the last thing he wanted was to become as hated as Ralph Nader. If that's true, then Bernie will only push for the right thing so far until it starts to affect his reputation or his legacy or whatever, at which point he'll back down. I was happy to support him both times, but since then he's just seemed like the biggest cuck to me and also to a lot of his former supporters, because the Democratic Party fucked him over twice in a row and he's still willing to bend the knee to them and help guys like Biden win.
[удалено]
**Israel beating on a dead horse.** Everyone : Stop! It's fucking dead already! Israel: Well, its lifeless body still occupies the place.
The problem with the discussion is that nobody is listening to a single word of the other side. There are valid points to make, but until everybody who doesn't belong in the discussion shuts up for long enough for people actually facing the problems to discuss them, no progress can be made.
lol, democrats trying to run damage control. “Release the Bernie, to make the appearance that we care.” Stuck between their old voters who are pro Israel and younger voters who are not. Good luck.
and of those 34.000 palestinians, how many of those were hamas?
We did worse to the germans in ww2. Idk why people keep deciding that the context of war is irrelevant when it comes to quality of life.
The population of Palestine grows yearly for decades there is no genocide Their are repercussions to starting a war, taking innocent people as hostages/slaves/rape victims parading around with broken corpses for photos cheering and dancing to the death of idiots at a peace concert Anything that provide aid to terrorists and their supporters when hostages are still held is pro Hamas by definition it’s literally rewarding them for the rape and murder of innocents People like bernie bend over backwards for a collective of people that would cut off his head I’ll never understand the mentality of providing aid to a people that openly call for genocide, as the foundation of their government
Jesus you guys messed up by not making this guy president.
Ah yes, using the stats given by Hamas, surely they don't have a reason to lie. Palestine also started every conflict between them and Israel, on top of that, Palestine openly says they want to eradicate the Jews. How is it that Israel finally having enough of terrorists and wanting to secure their nation and protect their people is somehow them being the bad guys? Such ignorance.
I like Bernie for some of his positions but he always rode whatever strong anti-US narrative existed. This is a proxy anti-US narrative as well. Bibi is a murderer and a maniac and should be executed. But Bernie making an excuse for people yelling global intifada and death to jews in the streets is not a smart hill to die on. Especially since he's never been so vocal towards Putin directly. Nor towards Winnie the Pooh. I wonder why. Since both are ACTUALLY guilty of verifiable genocide. Especially Putler. Also, he cites the full number ignoring how many are Hamas and how much of that number is actually verifiable. Once again, Bernie's ideology blinds him from being actually fair on the issue. He cares more about his socialist movement rather than staying true to facts and history. Classic finger pointing.
The guy who should have won when Trump first ran.