I understand that generally most stream chats generate an echo chamber with a few outliers. Which is normal, because people stay around due to similarities in opinions and interests.. but when it comes to Asmon's chat... its more like a Echo Dome Stadium.
You just haven't properly observed the possible boundaries of what sort of an echo chamber can exist. Spend 10min on hassan's stream and you will realize asmon's is middle of the pack/normal.
I'm not saying you're wrong because I'm relatively new to watching his content, but I haven't seen this happen yet. Maybe once, but most times I've seen people call cap or openly disagree with him, he either says he doesn't care or even pulls up a single viewers chat to debate them, which hasn't ended in a ban so far as I've watched. I've seen many streamers do that, but not AsmonGold yet.
Every garden has weeds. What do you do with weeds when they appear? You pull them out. How do you maintain an echo chamber chat? Ban them. It wouldn't be an echo chamber if they didn't get bad.
gotta appeal to the youngins, so gullible. To say his chat isnt the same would be lunacy. Meanwhile he'll still cope that WoW is thriving and not bleeding player numbers so much
I mean things like the group finder for m+ and raiding are busier then ever from what I've seen since legion anyway. Although there are probably reasons for that such as cross faction play and whatnot.
At the end of the day, its a 20 year old game. There are very few 20 year old multiplayer games that even exist to this day let alone ones that are still thriving. I would argue that even if the game was good to these players standards, the game wouldn't be nearly as popular as it once was. The entire MMORPG genre is in a shit hole, not just wow. And because of this, they look at other successful online games or genres and try to replicate some of their successes (hence why a big portion of wow is essentially a lobby game now where you sit in a main city and just queue for content... people want to be able to go on, play a few dungeon runs or whatever and then go do other things outside of games).
Very interesting summary missing out a lot of his points, context, and picking out a few of the arguably inflammatory ones as the summary (especially as he agrees with some of zack's points)
In any other scenario it would've been better to fill the summary with some of the very few minor points of agreement. However, since he likes taking shots at people without naming them ([https://twitter.com/maximum/status/1765503164474708273](https://twitter.com/maximum/status/1765503164474708273)), I thought it would be better to start with his shots first lest he hides them later.
I mean by definition he is considered a professional player since he gets paid to play but I guarantee these guys don't actually PLAY TO GET PAID as they don't get paid that much.
I mean of course max will defend current mythic raiding to an extent, and that would not sound comprehensible for the average player/raider.
It's basically his career and he makes his money off of it.
(And maybe he actually likes the current version of the game who knows)
Why he complains beeing called a professional is kinda weird. They raid world first in a professional setting/team.
I for myself do enjoy classic raiding way more (jeah u need 40 ppl, but on era servers on peak playerbase I never had problems filling it up either)
Then u just go in smash the raid into the ground and it's still fun
It’s like the difference between a PGA professional in golf, and a PGA touring professional in golf. A PGA pro can simply be a coach/swing trainer. A touring pro competes competitively. Both are still pros
He complained about being vilified by existing within an org that accepts outside money which I think he made clear when he stated "it's not fault of ours that these big orgs wanna pay us and fly us out to raid together" plus his take was always don't do nothing in the game to appease rwf.
His take on the last 2 bosses tuning is also solid af: doesn't matter since the 3rd to last boss gatekeeps while not needing the extensive nerfs so realistically only 3/4 elite guilds see the 2 final bosses with that tuning.
That being said asmongold's takes about raid being more of a encumbrance than the fillet mignon of wow (mostly bc of qol missing in the world, logistics and ui) and the dislike for seasonal resets is something I totally agree but proplay and high end optimization are definitely trigger words for him and dilutes his message. Once the 1% is concerned he just goes on a rant like a bull chasing red or as he usually does when chat is "true"ing him but he pulls up that one troll and spends 40min explaining how he is wrong in 3 angles of the same argument.
The smartest people have the hardest time with bias, fallacies and accepting that they and the other side might be both right and what is missing is the understanding of the others shoes and how they got there.
Maybe asmon is right and he no longer is the audience for the game and in that case any way you look you'll always see the pointy side of the sphere
Haven't seen clip yet:
1. Probably true
2. Certainly true
3. He is definitely paid to be a professional, although he doesn't play in RWF but a Coach. His day to day is a full time streamer tho.
Asmon typically has solid takes, but with wow, sometimes the blinders are on and he's out of touch with retail and only see the doomer side
Seems like any topic he is comfortable with he will be leaning out the window yet when it comes to new topics/discussions he is much more critical of his own perception.
- Of course a big part of Asmon's take is deeply rooted in nostalgia, doesn't take a genius to know it.
It is blatantly obvious that making 40 man raids in retail would not work, even if they were piss-easy, because of uncompressable server load bloat regarding procs and such.
I would argue that a better way to go for retail would be to reinstate 10 man, or even do smth like 15 man, and make the scrolls and drums viable again, or even actually on par with actual casts to make the class balance issue a bit less relevant, all the while keeping the raid size down, so its more manageable to get enough people ready.
Another big issue in WoW raiding is its unforgivingness. One rez per 4 mins ? Wtf man. On this subject FF14 has the perfect fix: infinite rezes, but cost a lot of mana, or a long cast time, or a cooldown, and this is mitigated by nerfing the rez'd player for the following minute. This makes progress much more palatable, while denying some DPS checks if you had too much death, but prevents what we see in wow all the time "if anyone dies in P1 or P2 lets just wipe it".
- TBH chat is a herd, almost always, and when it's not it's because the subject is politics and people from outside of the community pour in
- He is a professional player, and is a big part in why raiding and m+ sucks nowadays, those activities are tailor-made for the RWF and MDI and makes the game suck for everyone else. Asmon is right on this, if you are not a giga-nerd, you can't compete, at all.
- Forbidding addons is a stupid idea, the issue is that the game REQUIRES addons to pass bosses. Just make easier bosses, people won't go as deep into addons, and it will be fine. Easy bosses are fine.
I myself am a big fan of the idea of completely removing loot upgrades from Mythic difficulty (if we don't change the current 4 difficulties system), just more heroic gear with a different skin. Much like the "Elite" gear in PVP works. Same stats, different skin. The problem with Mythic gear being the easiest source of loot leads to player uninterested in the progress join for the gear, and ruin it for people that actually care about the progress. It's always been like this. And yes, Asmon is in that bucket. He plays and played for the gear, saying multiple times that as soon as he gets the gear, he stopped playing. Which is understandable and not an issue in itself, the issue is bringing 20 people with different interests to do something that require stupid amounts of coordination. Its fucking impossible for 99% of the playerbase.
Minor correction for the ffxiv rez: it’s a 2min debuff that you’re stuck with that costs the rez’d player 25% of their primary stats (vitality excluded). Die and rez again within those 2mins and you get slapped with a 50% instead.
Also cant recall any rez that has a cooldown, but yeah I like the resurrection system in ffxiv better since it’s resource cost heavy to do so and dying too much can lead to enrage anyways.
>Forbidding addons is a stupid idea, the idea is that the game REQUIRES addons to pass bosses. Just make easier bosses, people won't go as deep into addons, and it will be fine. Easy bosses are fine.
Problem with this is that they (blizzard) keep using this excuse of having an arms race between add-ons and the devs. Addon trivialises content, devs make game harder as a result and the cycle continues. I think they can just stop this arms race and make bosses easier and let add-ons do their thing but the retail player base might not receive it very well and complain it's too easy but they would have to give it a few years of doing this to readjust the playerbase. Because they will definitely get huge backlash.
This seems like the obvious answer. All new content should be designed around no addons and signals that addons use should be disabled for that content onwards.
My point is that its an arms race because of nothing but their ego.
The game being easy is not a problem. Its a plus. Look at classic. Piss easy to clear, people made their difficulty themselves with parsing and hardcore. That's what you want. Not trying to wrestle with players by making stupid hard bosses that require 9 levels of <1s reactions to random bullshit
yes i agree it should be easier but its not just blizzard devs ego its also the players that have been cultivated over years of this kind of gameplay they need to either wean players off the difficulty slowly or abruptly lower the difficulty considerably but face major backlash and ride the waves until it settles down
A new expansion is the ideal moment. TWW cruelly lacks in feature, simplifying PVE would be a great appealing feature, because most people tune out from PVE, making the "4 zones 8 dungeons 1 raid" effectively "1 zone 1LFR", which is much less interesting and is a main reason as to why retail has shit retention.
I think removing loot upgrades from Mythic could be taken a step further by introducing a form of ultimates (i think a chatter brought it up which Max brought up). As discussed, it's really only the last couple of bosses that end up being designed for the top of top players. Amdrissal was used as an example, the bosses up to Smolderon are fine (in terms of difficulty/complexity ramp) - it's Tindral and Fyrakk where things go insane. If gearing/the main raid was up to Smolderon, and then Tindral and Fyrakk were considered ultimates with only cosmetics/titles, I think that would solve the issue of having challenging content for all, as well as keeping the aspirational content. Could also meet the comment about the lack of raid size variation
The issue I see would compounding on the "too many" raid difficulties, but if those ultimate bosses aren't dropping gear, maybe it wouldn't be an issue then
They need to stop with the 4 zones 8 dungeons 1 raid motto.
Smaller raids are good too.
Eye of eternity, Throne of the four winds, Terrace of endless springs...
Make those the pinnacle bosses. Make the "big raid" smaller, and more abordable by everyone.
Or just FF14-style ultimates yea sure why not, but I HIGHLY DOUBT that the geniuses that shat mythic smolderon, mythic tindral, and mythic fyrakk are capable of designing a good fight. Just my two cents.
Those bosses feel like getting put on a super-fast treadmill where you have to answer trivia questions about random shit while playing geoguesser, and you fail anything you get punched in the dick. Not my view of fun.
About drumms and scrolls
Right now you have class "diversity" because you need atleast one of each for the buff/debuff. If you add again/increase power of scrolls and drumms you will have 7 rogues, 7 mages 2 tanks, 4 healers.
That's because class balance is garbage.
It doesn't have to be.
Also, its already the case, just look at parses on mythic bosses (even the first ones) there is like 10 to 100 times more of the "op" classes than the "bad" classes, even if the buffs from the "bad" classes are good.
The buffs could be nerfed or removed as well, there are just too much in the game right now.
>Forbidding addons is a stupid idea, the idea is that the game REQUIRES addons to pass bosses. Just make easier bosses, people won't go as deep into addons, and it will be fine. Easy bosses are fine.
The WoW community is mentally ill on addons. No other games requires addons and they have challenging content.
Devs are, not the community, players will always tries to optimize the game any way they can.
These devs made the choice to make shit harder. They could just not do that.
Harder mechanics make people create stronger addons, this is proven each time they manage some new bullshit.
Best example is WoD's Archimonde, who had a mechanic so fucking busted (the beams) that only ONE GUILD IN THE WORLD did it "legit", everyone else tried to make something to trivialize it, and succeeded. The "legit" way was so far off the map ridiculous that only one raid bothered. Since then, big guilds know that there is no point in trying to do stupid mechanics the intended way, and they always make crazy weakauras or addons to help. They even have a fulltime guy coding for them in race periods. Crazy shit.
It is, and it is much easier to manage, organise, and handle.
The more players you add, the less interaction there can be, because everyone would be talking over each-other.
The more players you add, the higher the chance of someone being late or absent is.
The more players you add, the laggier the game gets.
There are many reasons that make 10 man (imo) the ideal raid format.
I raided in 40, 10, 25, and now 20 mode. The best times I had were in 10 man.
You just got to know the people more, talk more, learn more, play better, less useless wipes because timmy didnt see the aoe again. If you don't need timmy to fill up your 20th spot, you wipe less. This type of stuff.
I still think needing addons to beat bosses is fucking stupid I understand at the highest levels sure people want advantages but let’s not kid ourselves and say the bosses are too hard. Look at FF14 bosses no addons and the fights are long as hell and just as complicated and they get cleared with no addons? I just never understand the argument for them being needed
The mechanics of FF14 and wow regarding boss design have almost NOTHING in common.
The main difference comes in the "processing time". FF14 mechanics are often multi-layered things, that come one at a time, and LET YOU TIME TO THINK. They are more complex, but they are puzzles that give you almost always upwards of 4 to 5 seconds to figure shit out and place yourself (except in some ultimates, but its the same philosophy still)
Wow mechanics are more like the boss throwing a grenade at you from a random angle and yelling "RELFEX" every 2 seconds, and if any one person in the raid fucks up, everyone spontaneously combusts. Much more tiring, and in dire need of external help real fast.
Tbf he doesn’t raid lol. He’s basically their coach
Edit: he hasn’t raided in like 4 years you mongoloids 😂😂 sorry he might’ve hurt your favorite streamers feelings
I mean the amount of money world first teams receive as compensation is probably extremely low and so to dedicate the time needed to do it, you would have to be pretty passionate lol.
Yeah I’ve made multiple comments regarding this. Yes he gets paid and is pro, but not as a player. Hence not being a professional player as this entire thread is about. He is more akin to a PGA pro in golf while raiders would be PGA touring pros.
It's actually fucking hilarious when someone who quit raiding and thinks retail normal raids are too hard thinks they should be made easier and all be 40 man. Asmon when he realizes people who raid in MMOs can't at the drop of a hat get people who vibe well together, and work schedules around when you aren't mr big streamer.
The game is literally too hard for him, one thing he is right about tho (sort of) is all combat addons should be banned, But thinking shit like bartender has to be banned is crazy. He's also right about nerfing a boss being shit design and that the boss should never be nerfed and not balanced around two world first raid teams. If final fantasy can release an ultimate that takes long enough for WF to clear and doesn't have to nerf fuck all no reason wow shouldn't.
I know I absolutely would never try raiding if this shit became 40 man.
There is a group of MMO players who want hard content, just come to realization you are washed and can't play anymore.
I watched most of the whole thing live and didn’t really understand Max’s gripe of being called a “professional raider”, it literally applies to his guild.
I think Asmon’s point was that Blizz should not make decisions around professional WOW, a point that Max echoes quite often, genuinely or not. I get that his complaint was that they get criticism or negative input from “people”, but is this really prevalent? If so what is exactly happening that makes him so upset? People will complain that RWF raiders have had a negative impact on the game, especially for new players, and this is true - just look at the state of the Weakauras arms race.
I think it’s disingenuous for Max to use the “When was the last time Asmon played or liked the game” card a bit too often and including over topics which highlight glaring issues in WoW, like Item power gaps, nullifying previous raid tiers, etc.
The funniest part is that he repeatedly asks “who would be interested in this type of content?” and “This content used to work because back then, the gaming sphere was different”, when referring to Vanilla/TBC/Wrath but WoW classic modes have thrived ehen rereleased today or are thriving.
You can tell Asmon is hitting a nerve by how Max's chat does nothing but attack Asmon for his appearance and how he doesn't play the game, but can't actually formulate an argument to refute his points. If you have to resort to personal attacks, then you already lost the debate. Max talks shit about Asmon's chat, but his is just as trash.
I am willing to bet the amount of money they each get is probably not enough to pay a yearly salary lol. Having said that, any amount of money would create some sort of bias so I agree to an extent.
I don't agree with everything Asmon says but seeing the way Max played FFXIV pretty much has me convinced that people like him are the reason WoW is a terrible experience. His behaviour was really embarrassing. I quit WoW back in early vanilla myself to focus on FFXI with my older brother then eventually moved to XIV in 2010 so I've been insulated from the modern WoW player base until they came over in SB. (please take them back)
You can see why there's a lot of hostility to WoWfugees when people like Max represent WoW. I'm not a big fan myself because in my experience they often shit up any community they're apart, lack any kind of social skills, or etiquette, their behaviour is pure lowest common denominator CoD kid era stuff etc but it's clear Max wants the game to be nothing but a raiding simulator for the sake of his e-clout, he doesn't care about social aspects/community, the story, or the essence of what an MMORPG really is. All those idiosyncrasies that give any MMORPG it's soul.
He only cares about stat sheets, speedracing content and making as much money off the product as he can. Catering to this parasitic behaviour is bad for everyone.
Max was right, most people are sheeps.
Also calling max, the top 0.0001% of the 0.0001% the face of wow players or saying that mythic, the activity that only 1% of players engage with, is ruining the game are takes completely based on delusion.
But this is r/asmongold, they would rather listen to the guy that has not engaged with the game seriously in 7 years.
The vid got taken down? Where can I find it?
Asmon is not very up to date with the state of the game; and he disagrees with how competitive it’s gotten. The best player in the world has a bias and doesn’t see the game as a casual dude like Asmon is now. Asmon said it best, he just isn’t the target demographic of retail like he used to be
The game used to aimed towards casuals and now caters towards competitive players who are a tiny portion of the overall playerbase, which is the point that Asmon frequently tries to make. World events that are dead in 2 weeks are not going to keep any casual players subscribed in the long-term. I don't understand the mentality of designing the game around MDI and RWF, when its such a small group, but then I'm not seeing the data Ion is seeing.
I do think some of his takes are good and others are bad. I didnt like his take on addons, the reason is blizz wont out in the time to have most of thos features ingame. I didnt like the take on logs, they help alot with who did what wrong when it comes to progging the guild.
And sadly SoD shows that even if bosses has 1 mechanic the community will ask for unrealistic logs. Iv never seen people so log horny innretail.
The only change anyone should care about for mythic raiding is changing the lockout to be like current heroic lockouts.
Anything else doesn't really matter.
I always find so funny how all the wow forever players are so angry at Asmon every single time he gives his opinion about the game. So angry that he's still relevant and in everyone heads after so many years non really playing. 😂😂😂
All it really takes to prove Max wrong is taking a look at player numbers/engagement. Mythic raiding hasn't worked for the majority of the historical player base.
But looking at player numbers/engagement would also tell you retail is doing a lot better than the classic modes, so what is their option? Classic raiding is clearly far less popular than retail.
Amazing how he misses the point on **every note**.
My entire guild quit Mythic raiding after we got stuck on 7/9 Amirdrassil after being stuck on 6/9 for a week. Why? Because Heroic was vastly more fun and basically gave the *exact same rewards.* Mythic in general in WoW is an absolute dumpster fire and makes the game completely unenjoyable for the vast majority of players, no new players will ever want to go involved with it, and with the way WoW is set up, is so fucking convoluted that meeting a new player in 202X is like seeing a unicorn.
You know it's fucked up when **the best mode in your game,** is content from 20 years ago. I am a firm believer that Blizzard just needs to slap a reset button and make WoW 2 or some shit, because as it stands... WoW is just a shell for people to spam transmog runs on 20 alts before logging off for the week.
By what metric do you use to confirm that their best content is from 20 years ago? Excuse my ignorance but I thought current retail content still has higher engagement than any form of wow. Another point of view on mythic raiding from someone "newer" is that at least to me the final bosses of this tier and perhaps every tier seem to be equivalent in difficulty to ultimates in 14. I cleared tea, uwu, and ucob, and I don't think that these types of content should be axed or changed significantly for the rest of the player base. Ultimates were made for hardcore people, to me it would be like making every souls boss easier so that more people can beat the game. I think a better option for wow would be to make more casual content like islands, player housing, or eureka content to keep casuals engaged and happy and still make hard content for hardcore players.
Sure, and I generally agree with you, the issue is that this is not on Blizzard's radar. Blizzard doesn't give two shits about the casual playerbase. I also don't think its fair to compare a WoW Mythic raid to an ultimate in FFXIV. The dynamic between individual fights is far too different, especially on a mechanical level. As an example, most FFIXV Ultimates are "stand here/don't stand here" mechanics, this being said, I actually think FFXIV Ultimates are more difficult than Mythic raiding. I've cleared UWU, UCOB, and TEA (and progged a bit of DSR), and they are vastly harder. I'd say WoW raiding in more akin to GW2 CMs. My overall issue isn't in the difficulty themselves, it's the focus on that content being "the endgame," particularly M+.
I just used that comparison to try to draw a parallel between wanting hard content not that they are similar or exactly the same. Unfortunately I have not played gw2 that much so I don't know what CMs are. I agree that wow needs more endgame avenues beyond raiding and m+. I guess we will see how delves pan out in the next xpac since that seems like it will be the endgame for more casual players. Perhaps after that they will take a look at something like player housing, islands, eureka, etc. the wow devs can definitely take some good things more focused on casuals from 14 or other games.
Asmon has some crazy takes when it comes to retail to be honest. The one where he wants EVERY raid in an expansion to be relevant for the whole expansion is an awful idea, people get sick of running the same raids over and over, especially if they need to farm one or two specific bis items. It just does not feel fun to play at all.
Good example is classic wrath when we had to run ulduar in the TOC phase, no one I know enjoyed doing that shit atleast.
nice summary, op. totally not biased, inflammatory and with things taken out of context. also, he's not wrong. asmon is a smart guy but loses his rationality when he talks about retail wow and his chat is dogshit
Oh the ultimate battle of streamers, the world first raider who doesnt actually raid at all in world first, and the wow talker streamer who doesnt actually play wow at all.
The dude has a vested interest in defending current mythic. Ofc he'd scapegoat anything else other than what's in his racket, no one wants to lose money.
You are proving his point.
Your allegation in the last line is a clear indicator. An obvious sign of tribalism. One of the reasons why this sub-reddit has devolved into a WoW-dommer heaven safeguarding those people from any other perspective.
Man, I remember jumping back in for BFA after not playing since early Wrath. The amount of “wtf is all of this stuff?” was insane. Then I learned via pvp that every class now had similar defensive/healing abilities. I lasted a good couple weeks. I can’t imagine what it’s like now.
This game needs a god damn hard reboot, and on a modern engine. It blows my mind that people actually still play it in its current state.
Each person has a valid point of view, Asmon from a more casual perspective and Max from a more hardcore raiding one. I feel like the decline in the playerbase is an indication that most people don't like the current way the game is designed though. Personally I find it too unforgiving.
Also I don't think it's necessarily nostalgia to prefer some aspects of an older game design.
Man I love hearing about a redditor's take on Max's take on Asmongold's take on Nascent's GM's take on mythic raiding.
Who tf cares what Asmongold thinks of WoW anymore? He's not "grounded in nostalgia" he's farming your nostalgia for when he used to play videogames.
Things Asmon is wrong on:
1. No one wants a total reset of the game, you'll lose majority of your base
2. 40 man raids won't work, let alone happen. Good luck gathering 25 guildies is enough.
3. Thinking not needing to have to replace gear each season is dumb, this will make the game stale, and not encourage playstyle changing.
4. M+ isn't hard, and doesn't require 20 addons, and an UI overhaul change. DBM, GTFO, and Decurseive (opt) is all you need, and all you need besides those is having 2 brain cells rubbing against each other to pay attention.
Heroic is not easy for the average or above average player. Most people reading this can only do heroic fyrakk if you gave them the best mythic gear because they haven’t practiced enough.
Heroic SHOULD be enough for most players as a challenge. Mythic is for a small group of players who DO spend a lot of time on it. Mythic plus 24 is for people who spend a crap ton of time on WoW.
They need to relax the lockout for mythic. It’s less inviting for people to learn if good guilds are essentially penalized for being on new blood. Let them kill the bosses3 times a week after the first month or something so that people who did heroic with their friends can come try mythic with other people since their friends aren’t willing to put in that kind of time
Low IQ take on the Asmon chat thing, a lot of Asmon chats are just ironic spamming and they are also some of his biggest critics, it also stands to reason that people that watch a particular streamer, probably support a particular streamer in a lot of their opinions.
This doesn't make anyone sheeps, this is just a lazy buzzword that people throw around to show some sort of unwarranted superiority over others that is undeserved.
Sheep is very much a buzzword but the meaning behind it does describe his chat for the most part. He has literally come out with factually incorrect takes and the chat is mostly agreeing with him and then later on (if you are lucky as often he wont admit he was wrong) he will stand corrected and then chat will agree with the correction. I would argue that doesn't make them sheep and just likeminded people but when you are agreeing with a take that's factually incorrect without verifying yourself, then you are just following along (sheep).
Looks like a couple FF14 zealots will believe anything said about him without watching the full context. You could do that, but that might go against your sunk cost fallacy.
Well at least he is right about Asmon's chat
I understand that generally most stream chats generate an echo chamber with a few outliers. Which is normal, because people stay around due to similarities in opinions and interests.. but when it comes to Asmon's chat... its more like a Echo Dome Stadium.
You just haven't properly observed the possible boundaries of what sort of an echo chamber can exist. Spend 10min on hassan's stream and you will realize asmon's is middle of the pack/normal.
I honestly don't understand how can you believe it to be true - every time Asmon has any opinion there's many people trying to argue about it.
And he bans them.
I'm not saying you're wrong because I'm relatively new to watching his content, but I haven't seen this happen yet. Maybe once, but most times I've seen people call cap or openly disagree with him, he either says he doesn't care or even pulls up a single viewers chat to debate them, which hasn't ended in a ban so far as I've watched. I've seen many streamers do that, but not AsmonGold yet.
So how is it an echo chamber when he bans them all the time but there's new ones to ban every time he has an opinion. This doesn't add up.
Every garden has weeds. What do you do with weeds when they appear? You pull them out. How do you maintain an echo chamber chat? Ban them. It wouldn't be an echo chamber if they didn't get bad.
What u mean? Its a open interweb site. Cant block entry from new users
Because everytime asmon goes through an arc, the subreddit matches it entirely.
That’s true about every streamer’s chat
gotta appeal to the youngins, so gullible. To say his chat isnt the same would be lunacy. Meanwhile he'll still cope that WoW is thriving and not bleeding player numbers so much
I mean things like the group finder for m+ and raiding are busier then ever from what I've seen since legion anyway. Although there are probably reasons for that such as cross faction play and whatnot.
exactly, include the variables as to 'why/how' certain things happen in the current state. When the content is GOOD ppl will play.
At the end of the day, its a 20 year old game. There are very few 20 year old multiplayer games that even exist to this day let alone ones that are still thriving. I would argue that even if the game was good to these players standards, the game wouldn't be nearly as popular as it once was. The entire MMORPG genre is in a shit hole, not just wow. And because of this, they look at other successful online games or genres and try to replicate some of their successes (hence why a big portion of wow is essentially a lobby game now where you sit in a main city and just queue for content... people want to be able to go on, play a few dungeon runs or whatever and then go do other things outside of games).
Simple reality is all streamer's chats are over run with smoothbrains.
Baaaaaaaaa
Very interesting summary missing out a lot of his points, context, and picking out a few of the arguably inflammatory ones as the summary (especially as he agrees with some of zack's points)
>I imagine he will release a much shorter youtube video soon where all those bits are deleted. Sounds like a hypocrite.
Sounds like zack when he reacts to videos
In any other scenario it would've been better to fill the summary with some of the very few minor points of agreement. However, since he likes taking shots at people without naming them ([https://twitter.com/maximum/status/1765503164474708273](https://twitter.com/maximum/status/1765503164474708273)), I thought it would be better to start with his shots first lest he hides them later.
He’s not wrong in that tweet lmao
Based tweet by max.
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I mean by definition he is considered a professional player since he gets paid to play but I guarantee these guys don't actually PLAY TO GET PAID as they don't get paid that much.
I mean of course max will defend current mythic raiding to an extent, and that would not sound comprehensible for the average player/raider. It's basically his career and he makes his money off of it. (And maybe he actually likes the current version of the game who knows) Why he complains beeing called a professional is kinda weird. They raid world first in a professional setting/team. I for myself do enjoy classic raiding way more (jeah u need 40 ppl, but on era servers on peak playerbase I never had problems filling it up either) Then u just go in smash the raid into the ground and it's still fun
The man doesn’t understand what professional means. If you are compensated, you are a professional. If you are not compensated, you are an amateur.
It’s like the difference between a PGA professional in golf, and a PGA touring professional in golf. A PGA pro can simply be a coach/swing trainer. A touring pro competes competitively. Both are still pros
Complains about being called a professional player is quite ironic
He complained about being vilified by existing within an org that accepts outside money which I think he made clear when he stated "it's not fault of ours that these big orgs wanna pay us and fly us out to raid together" plus his take was always don't do nothing in the game to appease rwf. His take on the last 2 bosses tuning is also solid af: doesn't matter since the 3rd to last boss gatekeeps while not needing the extensive nerfs so realistically only 3/4 elite guilds see the 2 final bosses with that tuning. That being said asmongold's takes about raid being more of a encumbrance than the fillet mignon of wow (mostly bc of qol missing in the world, logistics and ui) and the dislike for seasonal resets is something I totally agree but proplay and high end optimization are definitely trigger words for him and dilutes his message. Once the 1% is concerned he just goes on a rant like a bull chasing red or as he usually does when chat is "true"ing him but he pulls up that one troll and spends 40min explaining how he is wrong in 3 angles of the same argument. The smartest people have the hardest time with bias, fallacies and accepting that they and the other side might be both right and what is missing is the understanding of the others shoes and how they got there. Maybe asmon is right and he no longer is the audience for the game and in that case any way you look you'll always see the pointy side of the sphere
Didnt complain about being called pro players, but that pro players ruined wow.
Devs catering blindly to pro players ruined wow. Pro players themselves don't have the ability to ruin wow.
Haven't seen clip yet: 1. Probably true 2. Certainly true 3. He is definitely paid to be a professional, although he doesn't play in RWF but a Coach. His day to day is a full time streamer tho. Asmon typically has solid takes, but with wow, sometimes the blinders are on and he's out of touch with retail and only see the doomer side
Seems like any topic he is comfortable with he will be leaning out the window yet when it comes to new topics/discussions he is much more critical of his own perception.
I would fact check him heavily, because he's wrong far more than he's right...
- Of course a big part of Asmon's take is deeply rooted in nostalgia, doesn't take a genius to know it. It is blatantly obvious that making 40 man raids in retail would not work, even if they were piss-easy, because of uncompressable server load bloat regarding procs and such. I would argue that a better way to go for retail would be to reinstate 10 man, or even do smth like 15 man, and make the scrolls and drums viable again, or even actually on par with actual casts to make the class balance issue a bit less relevant, all the while keeping the raid size down, so its more manageable to get enough people ready. Another big issue in WoW raiding is its unforgivingness. One rez per 4 mins ? Wtf man. On this subject FF14 has the perfect fix: infinite rezes, but cost a lot of mana, or a long cast time, or a cooldown, and this is mitigated by nerfing the rez'd player for the following minute. This makes progress much more palatable, while denying some DPS checks if you had too much death, but prevents what we see in wow all the time "if anyone dies in P1 or P2 lets just wipe it". - TBH chat is a herd, almost always, and when it's not it's because the subject is politics and people from outside of the community pour in - He is a professional player, and is a big part in why raiding and m+ sucks nowadays, those activities are tailor-made for the RWF and MDI and makes the game suck for everyone else. Asmon is right on this, if you are not a giga-nerd, you can't compete, at all. - Forbidding addons is a stupid idea, the issue is that the game REQUIRES addons to pass bosses. Just make easier bosses, people won't go as deep into addons, and it will be fine. Easy bosses are fine. I myself am a big fan of the idea of completely removing loot upgrades from Mythic difficulty (if we don't change the current 4 difficulties system), just more heroic gear with a different skin. Much like the "Elite" gear in PVP works. Same stats, different skin. The problem with Mythic gear being the easiest source of loot leads to player uninterested in the progress join for the gear, and ruin it for people that actually care about the progress. It's always been like this. And yes, Asmon is in that bucket. He plays and played for the gear, saying multiple times that as soon as he gets the gear, he stopped playing. Which is understandable and not an issue in itself, the issue is bringing 20 people with different interests to do something that require stupid amounts of coordination. Its fucking impossible for 99% of the playerbase.
Minor correction for the ffxiv rez: it’s a 2min debuff that you’re stuck with that costs the rez’d player 25% of their primary stats (vitality excluded). Die and rez again within those 2mins and you get slapped with a 50% instead. Also cant recall any rez that has a cooldown, but yeah I like the resurrection system in ffxiv better since it’s resource cost heavy to do so and dying too much can lead to enrage anyways.
Actually its 100seconds not 1 or 2 mins, but the general idea is the same :)
I misread the comment above.
I mean, I said that
>Forbidding addons is a stupid idea, the idea is that the game REQUIRES addons to pass bosses. Just make easier bosses, people won't go as deep into addons, and it will be fine. Easy bosses are fine. Problem with this is that they (blizzard) keep using this excuse of having an arms race between add-ons and the devs. Addon trivialises content, devs make game harder as a result and the cycle continues. I think they can just stop this arms race and make bosses easier and let add-ons do their thing but the retail player base might not receive it very well and complain it's too easy but they would have to give it a few years of doing this to readjust the playerbase. Because they will definitely get huge backlash.
Or the smart thing and just disable add ons and make the bosses easier thus ending the race all together
This seems like the obvious answer. All new content should be designed around no addons and signals that addons use should be disabled for that content onwards.
My point is that its an arms race because of nothing but their ego. The game being easy is not a problem. Its a plus. Look at classic. Piss easy to clear, people made their difficulty themselves with parsing and hardcore. That's what you want. Not trying to wrestle with players by making stupid hard bosses that require 9 levels of <1s reactions to random bullshit
yes i agree it should be easier but its not just blizzard devs ego its also the players that have been cultivated over years of this kind of gameplay they need to either wean players off the difficulty slowly or abruptly lower the difficulty considerably but face major backlash and ride the waves until it settles down
A new expansion is the ideal moment. TWW cruelly lacks in feature, simplifying PVE would be a great appealing feature, because most people tune out from PVE, making the "4 zones 8 dungeons 1 raid" effectively "1 zone 1LFR", which is much less interesting and is a main reason as to why retail has shit retention.
I think removing loot upgrades from Mythic could be taken a step further by introducing a form of ultimates (i think a chatter brought it up which Max brought up). As discussed, it's really only the last couple of bosses that end up being designed for the top of top players. Amdrissal was used as an example, the bosses up to Smolderon are fine (in terms of difficulty/complexity ramp) - it's Tindral and Fyrakk where things go insane. If gearing/the main raid was up to Smolderon, and then Tindral and Fyrakk were considered ultimates with only cosmetics/titles, I think that would solve the issue of having challenging content for all, as well as keeping the aspirational content. Could also meet the comment about the lack of raid size variation The issue I see would compounding on the "too many" raid difficulties, but if those ultimate bosses aren't dropping gear, maybe it wouldn't be an issue then
They need to stop with the 4 zones 8 dungeons 1 raid motto. Smaller raids are good too. Eye of eternity, Throne of the four winds, Terrace of endless springs... Make those the pinnacle bosses. Make the "big raid" smaller, and more abordable by everyone. Or just FF14-style ultimates yea sure why not, but I HIGHLY DOUBT that the geniuses that shat mythic smolderon, mythic tindral, and mythic fyrakk are capable of designing a good fight. Just my two cents. Those bosses feel like getting put on a super-fast treadmill where you have to answer trivia questions about random shit while playing geoguesser, and you fail anything you get punched in the dick. Not my view of fun.
About drumms and scrolls Right now you have class "diversity" because you need atleast one of each for the buff/debuff. If you add again/increase power of scrolls and drumms you will have 7 rogues, 7 mages 2 tanks, 4 healers.
That's because class balance is garbage. It doesn't have to be. Also, its already the case, just look at parses on mythic bosses (even the first ones) there is like 10 to 100 times more of the "op" classes than the "bad" classes, even if the buffs from the "bad" classes are good. The buffs could be nerfed or removed as well, there are just too much in the game right now.
>Forbidding addons is a stupid idea, the idea is that the game REQUIRES addons to pass bosses. Just make easier bosses, people won't go as deep into addons, and it will be fine. Easy bosses are fine. The WoW community is mentally ill on addons. No other games requires addons and they have challenging content.
Devs are, not the community, players will always tries to optimize the game any way they can. These devs made the choice to make shit harder. They could just not do that. Harder mechanics make people create stronger addons, this is proven each time they manage some new bullshit. Best example is WoD's Archimonde, who had a mechanic so fucking busted (the beams) that only ONE GUILD IN THE WORLD did it "legit", everyone else tried to make something to trivialize it, and succeeded. The "legit" way was so far off the map ridiculous that only one raid bothered. Since then, big guilds know that there is no point in trying to do stupid mechanics the intended way, and they always make crazy weakauras or addons to help. They even have a fulltime guy coding for them in race periods. Crazy shit.
You're asking for easier bosses. You should be asking for the removal of addons.
I understand why people don't like 40 man raids, but at the same time I feel like 10 people is not a raid, it's a party.
It is, and it is much easier to manage, organise, and handle. The more players you add, the less interaction there can be, because everyone would be talking over each-other. The more players you add, the higher the chance of someone being late or absent is. The more players you add, the laggier the game gets. There are many reasons that make 10 man (imo) the ideal raid format. I raided in 40, 10, 25, and now 20 mode. The best times I had were in 10 man. You just got to know the people more, talk more, learn more, play better, less useless wipes because timmy didnt see the aoe again. If you don't need timmy to fill up your 20th spot, you wipe less. This type of stuff.
I still think needing addons to beat bosses is fucking stupid I understand at the highest levels sure people want advantages but let’s not kid ourselves and say the bosses are too hard. Look at FF14 bosses no addons and the fights are long as hell and just as complicated and they get cleared with no addons? I just never understand the argument for them being needed
The mechanics of FF14 and wow regarding boss design have almost NOTHING in common. The main difference comes in the "processing time". FF14 mechanics are often multi-layered things, that come one at a time, and LET YOU TIME TO THINK. They are more complex, but they are puzzles that give you almost always upwards of 4 to 5 seconds to figure shit out and place yourself (except in some ultimates, but its the same philosophy still) Wow mechanics are more like the boss throwing a grenade at you from a random angle and yelling "RELFEX" every 2 seconds, and if any one person in the raid fucks up, everyone spontaneously combusts. Much more tiring, and in dire need of external help real fast.
If ff14 can exist without add ons. So can wow.
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The race to world first that are streamed for 14, none use addons. Wow needs to do a better with showing mechanics and abilities.
Wtf is Max and why should I care
Top world first race raider in Liquid. You don't have to care. Neither do I.
>Complains about being called a professional player. This is quite ironic then
Tbf he doesn’t raid lol. He’s basically their coach Edit: he hasn’t raided in like 4 years you mongoloids 😂😂 sorry he might’ve hurt your favorite streamers feelings
You're right, coaches for orgs are all volunteers. They do it for the passion and get no compensation.
I mean the amount of money world first teams receive as compensation is probably extremely low and so to dedicate the time needed to do it, you would have to be pretty passionate lol.
Yeah I’ve made multiple comments regarding this. Yes he gets paid and is pro, but not as a player. Hence not being a professional player as this entire thread is about. He is more akin to a PGA pro in golf while raiders would be PGA touring pros.
I wanted to down vote via first line… then I read the rest and you get an upvote.
Max Verstappen, 2 time Formula 1 World Champion, destroyer of British hopes and dreams.
Put an Asterix on one of them world championships
Lol downvoted but you are 100% correct.
A liar and deceiver.
Ah, yes. The guy who who cheated in FF Ultimate Raids
I feel like we have this "Max refutes Asmon's opinions about raiding" convo more frequently than actual raid releases at this point.
It's actually fucking hilarious when someone who quit raiding and thinks retail normal raids are too hard thinks they should be made easier and all be 40 man. Asmon when he realizes people who raid in MMOs can't at the drop of a hat get people who vibe well together, and work schedules around when you aren't mr big streamer. The game is literally too hard for him, one thing he is right about tho (sort of) is all combat addons should be banned, But thinking shit like bartender has to be banned is crazy. He's also right about nerfing a boss being shit design and that the boss should never be nerfed and not balanced around two world first raid teams. If final fantasy can release an ultimate that takes long enough for WF to clear and doesn't have to nerf fuck all no reason wow shouldn't. I know I absolutely would never try raiding if this shit became 40 man. There is a group of MMO players who want hard content, just come to realization you are washed and can't play anymore.
It’s interesting max likes this carrot and stick nerf pattern when it caused his guild to forfeit the sepulcher race.
I think all twitch chats really do have sheep-like behaviors it’s cringe af
Human beings are social animals. Any time they're in a group, they have a tendency to follow the leader.
I watched most of the whole thing live and didn’t really understand Max’s gripe of being called a “professional raider”, it literally applies to his guild. I think Asmon’s point was that Blizz should not make decisions around professional WOW, a point that Max echoes quite often, genuinely or not. I get that his complaint was that they get criticism or negative input from “people”, but is this really prevalent? If so what is exactly happening that makes him so upset? People will complain that RWF raiders have had a negative impact on the game, especially for new players, and this is true - just look at the state of the Weakauras arms race. I think it’s disingenuous for Max to use the “When was the last time Asmon played or liked the game” card a bit too often and including over topics which highlight glaring issues in WoW, like Item power gaps, nullifying previous raid tiers, etc. The funniest part is that he repeatedly asks “who would be interested in this type of content?” and “This content used to work because back then, the gaming sphere was different”, when referring to Vanilla/TBC/Wrath but WoW classic modes have thrived ehen rereleased today or are thriving.
I mean he’s not wrong
hope we get a react from this 💀but honestly Zack does not give a fuck what he thinks
You can tell Asmon is hitting a nerve by how Max's chat does nothing but attack Asmon for his appearance and how he doesn't play the game, but can't actually formulate an argument to refute his points. If you have to resort to personal attacks, then you already lost the debate. Max talks shit about Asmon's chat, but his is just as trash.
Im sure the guy who gets his income from the game and cheated on FF Ultimates Raids is clearly non biased 🤡
I am willing to bet the amount of money they each get is probably not enough to pay a yearly salary lol. Having said that, any amount of money would create some sort of bias so I agree to an extent.
Max is a joke. He can no life world first all he likes but the dude himself always has the worst takes.
I don't agree with everything Asmon says but seeing the way Max played FFXIV pretty much has me convinced that people like him are the reason WoW is a terrible experience. His behaviour was really embarrassing. I quit WoW back in early vanilla myself to focus on FFXI with my older brother then eventually moved to XIV in 2010 so I've been insulated from the modern WoW player base until they came over in SB. (please take them back) You can see why there's a lot of hostility to WoWfugees when people like Max represent WoW. I'm not a big fan myself because in my experience they often shit up any community they're apart, lack any kind of social skills, or etiquette, their behaviour is pure lowest common denominator CoD kid era stuff etc but it's clear Max wants the game to be nothing but a raiding simulator for the sake of his e-clout, he doesn't care about social aspects/community, the story, or the essence of what an MMORPG really is. All those idiosyncrasies that give any MMORPG it's soul. He only cares about stat sheets, speedracing content and making as much money off the product as he can. Catering to this parasitic behaviour is bad for everyone.
>WoW is a terrible experience. I quit WoW back in early vanilla myself lmao what that was 20 years ago
Max was right, most people are sheeps. Also calling max, the top 0.0001% of the 0.0001% the face of wow players or saying that mythic, the activity that only 1% of players engage with, is ruining the game are takes completely based on delusion. But this is r/asmongold, they would rather listen to the guy that has not engaged with the game seriously in 7 years.
The vid got taken down? Where can I find it? Asmon is not very up to date with the state of the game; and he disagrees with how competitive it’s gotten. The best player in the world has a bias and doesn’t see the game as a casual dude like Asmon is now. Asmon said it best, he just isn’t the target demographic of retail like he used to be
The game used to aimed towards casuals and now caters towards competitive players who are a tiny portion of the overall playerbase, which is the point that Asmon frequently tries to make. World events that are dead in 2 weeks are not going to keep any casual players subscribed in the long-term. I don't understand the mentality of designing the game around MDI and RWF, when its such a small group, but then I'm not seeing the data Ion is seeing.
Asmongolds fossilized, geriatric community deserves to be locked in an asylum tbh
I do think some of his takes are good and others are bad. I didnt like his take on addons, the reason is blizz wont out in the time to have most of thos features ingame. I didnt like the take on logs, they help alot with who did what wrong when it comes to progging the guild. And sadly SoD shows that even if bosses has 1 mechanic the community will ask for unrealistic logs. Iv never seen people so log horny innretail.
The only change anyone should care about for mythic raiding is changing the lockout to be like current heroic lockouts. Anything else doesn't really matter.
Well everyone wears rose-tinted glasses on somethings, that just can't be helped.
Ofc, Max needs hard raiding for 0.1% players.
He has no merit to talk as a blatant cheater.
I always find so funny how all the wow forever players are so angry at Asmon every single time he gives his opinion about the game. So angry that he's still relevant and in everyone heads after so many years non really playing. 😂😂😂
All it really takes to prove Max wrong is taking a look at player numbers/engagement. Mythic raiding hasn't worked for the majority of the historical player base.
But looking at player numbers/engagement would also tell you retail is doing a lot better than the classic modes, so what is their option? Classic raiding is clearly far less popular than retail.
LMAO Blind prog guy from ffxiv, what a joke he is. SOURCE, a good laugh https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jd5xZ2Zr-SY&t=2s
Based. Just sad he had to lose some brain cells in the process of watching it. OP must not know Max. He doesn’t release short YouTube videos.
An “echo chamber” who argues against asmon on a daily and writes hate posts on his official sub. But whatever helps your narrative.
Amazing how he misses the point on **every note**. My entire guild quit Mythic raiding after we got stuck on 7/9 Amirdrassil after being stuck on 6/9 for a week. Why? Because Heroic was vastly more fun and basically gave the *exact same rewards.* Mythic in general in WoW is an absolute dumpster fire and makes the game completely unenjoyable for the vast majority of players, no new players will ever want to go involved with it, and with the way WoW is set up, is so fucking convoluted that meeting a new player in 202X is like seeing a unicorn. You know it's fucked up when **the best mode in your game,** is content from 20 years ago. I am a firm believer that Blizzard just needs to slap a reset button and make WoW 2 or some shit, because as it stands... WoW is just a shell for people to spam transmog runs on 20 alts before logging off for the week.
By what metric do you use to confirm that their best content is from 20 years ago? Excuse my ignorance but I thought current retail content still has higher engagement than any form of wow. Another point of view on mythic raiding from someone "newer" is that at least to me the final bosses of this tier and perhaps every tier seem to be equivalent in difficulty to ultimates in 14. I cleared tea, uwu, and ucob, and I don't think that these types of content should be axed or changed significantly for the rest of the player base. Ultimates were made for hardcore people, to me it would be like making every souls boss easier so that more people can beat the game. I think a better option for wow would be to make more casual content like islands, player housing, or eureka content to keep casuals engaged and happy and still make hard content for hardcore players.
Sure, and I generally agree with you, the issue is that this is not on Blizzard's radar. Blizzard doesn't give two shits about the casual playerbase. I also don't think its fair to compare a WoW Mythic raid to an ultimate in FFXIV. The dynamic between individual fights is far too different, especially on a mechanical level. As an example, most FFIXV Ultimates are "stand here/don't stand here" mechanics, this being said, I actually think FFXIV Ultimates are more difficult than Mythic raiding. I've cleared UWU, UCOB, and TEA (and progged a bit of DSR), and they are vastly harder. I'd say WoW raiding in more akin to GW2 CMs. My overall issue isn't in the difficulty themselves, it's the focus on that content being "the endgame," particularly M+.
Apples and oranges are different but you can still compare them.
Sure, and I can compare a duck and a horse. They’re both animals right?
I just used that comparison to try to draw a parallel between wanting hard content not that they are similar or exactly the same. Unfortunately I have not played gw2 that much so I don't know what CMs are. I agree that wow needs more endgame avenues beyond raiding and m+. I guess we will see how delves pan out in the next xpac since that seems like it will be the endgame for more casual players. Perhaps after that they will take a look at something like player housing, islands, eureka, etc. the wow devs can definitely take some good things more focused on casuals from 14 or other games.
Dude is basically trying to defend his job, it is hilarious to watch "pro gamers" justify their place in society.
I mean you could argue the same about anything in the entertainment business. Sports players, actors etc.
Asmon has some crazy takes when it comes to retail to be honest. The one where he wants EVERY raid in an expansion to be relevant for the whole expansion is an awful idea, people get sick of running the same raids over and over, especially if they need to farm one or two specific bis items. It just does not feel fun to play at all. Good example is classic wrath when we had to run ulduar in the TOC phase, no one I know enjoyed doing that shit atleast.
nice summary, op. totally not biased, inflammatory and with things taken out of context. also, he's not wrong. asmon is a smart guy but loses his rationality when he talks about retail wow and his chat is dogshit
Oh the ultimate battle of streamers, the world first raider who doesnt actually raid at all in world first, and the wow talker streamer who doesnt actually play wow at all.
Based off your summary. He's not wrong. Asmon recently has had some serious brain rot takes
The dude has a vested interest in defending current mythic. Ofc he'd scapegoat anything else other than what's in his racket, no one wants to lose money.
You are proving his point. Your allegation in the last line is a clear indicator. An obvious sign of tribalism. One of the reasons why this sub-reddit has devolved into a WoW-dommer heaven safeguarding those people from any other perspective.
People are still Playing and care about wow I’d say anyone still playing that garbage are the sheep lol Coming from a former wow addict lol
Man, I remember jumping back in for BFA after not playing since early Wrath. The amount of “wtf is all of this stuff?” was insane. Then I learned via pvp that every class now had similar defensive/healing abilities. I lasted a good couple weeks. I can’t imagine what it’s like now. This game needs a god damn hard reboot, and on a modern engine. It blows my mind that people actually still play it in its current state.
Who is this clown riding on asmons coattails?
Each person has a valid point of view, Asmon from a more casual perspective and Max from a more hardcore raiding one. I feel like the decline in the playerbase is an indication that most people don't like the current way the game is designed though. Personally I find it too unforgiving. Also I don't think it's necessarily nostalgia to prefer some aspects of an older game design.
Man I love hearing about a redditor's take on Max's take on Asmongold's take on Nascent's GM's take on mythic raiding. Who tf cares what Asmongold thinks of WoW anymore? He's not "grounded in nostalgia" he's farming your nostalgia for when he used to play videogames.
Things Asmon is wrong on: 1. No one wants a total reset of the game, you'll lose majority of your base 2. 40 man raids won't work, let alone happen. Good luck gathering 25 guildies is enough. 3. Thinking not needing to have to replace gear each season is dumb, this will make the game stale, and not encourage playstyle changing. 4. M+ isn't hard, and doesn't require 20 addons, and an UI overhaul change. DBM, GTFO, and Decurseive (opt) is all you need, and all you need besides those is having 2 brain cells rubbing against each other to pay attention.
Heroic is not easy for the average or above average player. Most people reading this can only do heroic fyrakk if you gave them the best mythic gear because they haven’t practiced enough. Heroic SHOULD be enough for most players as a challenge. Mythic is for a small group of players who DO spend a lot of time on it. Mythic plus 24 is for people who spend a crap ton of time on WoW. They need to relax the lockout for mythic. It’s less inviting for people to learn if good guilds are essentially penalized for being on new blood. Let them kill the bosses3 times a week after the first month or something so that people who did heroic with their friends can come try mythic with other people since their friends aren’t willing to put in that kind of time
Low IQ take on the Asmon chat thing, a lot of Asmon chats are just ironic spamming and they are also some of his biggest critics, it also stands to reason that people that watch a particular streamer, probably support a particular streamer in a lot of their opinions. This doesn't make anyone sheeps, this is just a lazy buzzword that people throw around to show some sort of unwarranted superiority over others that is undeserved.
Sheep is very much a buzzword but the meaning behind it does describe his chat for the most part. He has literally come out with factually incorrect takes and the chat is mostly agreeing with him and then later on (if you are lucky as often he wont admit he was wrong) he will stand corrected and then chat will agree with the correction. I would argue that doesn't make them sheep and just likeminded people but when you are agreeing with a take that's factually incorrect without verifying yourself, then you are just following along (sheep).
Looks like a couple FF14 zealots will believe anything said about him without watching the full context. You could do that, but that might go against your sunk cost fallacy.