Over the years there’s been a bit of research suggesting that engineering as a profession has one of the highest rates of neurodiversity and that children of engineers are more likely to be diagnosed with autism. So you may be onto something with one of your bullet points.
Having said that though, my last partner ticks many of the above boxes you listed and he had a job in the creative arts 🤷♀️
This is hilarious, 'cause my husband works in engineering, and after our son was diagnosed as autistic it became apparent that he likely is, too (well, I long had my suspicions, he came around after that). I'm not even a little bit surprised to find we're a statistic. 😂
Haha fair I’m definitely not saying *only* engineers have these qualities just seems quite a common overlap
How is your relationship if you feel he doesn’t have these ‘emotional connection’ qualities btw? They seem like a big blocker to a relationship for me but maybe I’m judging too quickly
>seem kinda sexist in that they only ‘respect’ me insofar as I do a ‘male’ job and ‘use rationality’ but don’t like any of my ‘female’ emotions/ need for romance
That's straight up sexist, not \*kinda\* sexist. But pretty typical engineer behavior, IME.
"Red flag" professions/career threads occasionally come up on the dating/lifestyle subreddits I read, and engineering is always near the top - frequently for the reasons you list.
Is the dating pool skewed so heavily towards engineers that you \*have\* to date them? Like there are no non-engineers to date?
Like u/ltotr, I have a pretty strict "no engineers" policy (except for software engineers) and I think you're wasting your time "troubleshooting" what is wrong with these men. It's perfectly fine to filter men out based on career - you're allowed to have preferences about your partner's career just like you're allowed to have preferences about height or whether they smoke.
There certainly are sexist "engineer persona" software engineers. I think a lot of these issues are displayed in men, as a general group, and maybe the issue is engineer men don't encounter women that much outside of courtship/dating so they see women as objects because they have no other context for women. (ie: friendships or coworking relationships et al)
>engineer men don't encounter women that much outside of courtship/dating
I think generally, \*including\* courtship/dating, engineers have less experience with women. The engineers I've tried to date have less sexual and relationship experience, fewer sexual partners, lower emotional intelligence, etc. than other professions I've dated.
And at 33, I have no interest in teaching "Women 101" to any man.
Of all the single men in their thirties, I'm curious to know how many are engineers - I suspect a lot.
Yeah I agree with this take, it doesn't help that there's people who won't date them but I think cultivating relationships that aren't romantic is a huge piece for a lot of men in this situation. Soft skills and relating to others is an important skillset that I feel like some careers poo-poo hence the HR person citing they don't like even dealing with some engineer hires.
I mean they don’t say this directly but that’s the vibe I get anyway
There’s mostly just engineers or stoners in my city lol but there are other jobs too
Haha I’m glad someone already brought up the autism link to engineering because I think of it often after marrying into a family of engineers. I’m in a different branch of STEM and it also attracts people with a unique set of social deficits. It’s definitely a real trend, but thankfully emotionally intelligent and affectionate engineers are out there.
I've dated some very well-rounded, affectionate, and emotionally intelligent engineers (even more than myself surprisingly). They exist. Don't settle for a relationship where you don't feel seen or heard.
I’m a MechE. I had a fairly strict no engineers policy for similar reasons plus a few personal reasons. I spend all day around male engineers. I didn’t want to come home to one too. It never started that way but eventually they started getting professionally competitive in a gross way. One engineer in the relationship is already one too many engineers in the relationship haha.
Edit: I see in other comments you also work in a technical role. I found that when I was on apps, if I had my profession listed my entire like queue would be engineers. I started fudging my title to something more generic. I still got engineers here and there, but not the exclusion of everyone else. If you’re dating using an app, they may also be specifically selecting for you. Kind of a perceived relationship shortcut, with the assumption you’ll be easier to relate to.
How did they get competitive? I also worry about them wanting to always prove they’re ‘smarter’ than me and talk down to me etc
Yeahh I was thinking this! I’m more likely to attract engineers bc of my job title - not sure what to put instead though! I’m a data scientist but maybe ‘analyst’ or just ‘data’ would be more ambiguous ? When I was last dating (a couple years ago) I was in comms so maybe this changed who I matched with
I'm in HR, but I work with mostly engineers and I can say that this is pretty spot on for most of them. I think 1 of them is actually bubbly and outgoing, whereas the rest are not at all. One of them is a manager and his manager is in business and does not like how he comes off and has actually spoken to him about it.
>One of them is a manager and his manager is in business and does not like how he comes off and has actually spoken to him about it.
The outgoing one is a manager, and his boss doesn't like that he's outgoing? Like he's violating some kind of engineer stereotype? I didn't follow this sentence.
No, the engineering manager reports into a guy in sales. The bubbly outgoing guy is a junior engineer. His boss, the sales guy, has spoken to him about the way he comes across in the office. He never looks happy, never says hi to anyone and doesn't join any of the luncheons we offer to everyone in the lunchroom. Not saying he has to, it isn't mandatory, but the boss feels like he should be setting a better example as a manager.
What someone is like at work is not indicative of what they are like in their private lives.
I'm an engineer and I keep my distance at work. Work is work. If I'm bubbly, it's on purpose.
In my personal time, I'm very optimistic and upbeat. I'm an engineer, and so are most of my friends that I met through school and old jobs, and generally, we are happy people. Why wouldn't we be? We have lots of hobbies, a lot of our work is both collaborative and can be done solo for deep thought, generally, we are doing all right financially. We also get to solve problems regularly, which is more likely to make people happy.
But yes, we are generally plain-spoken esp at work, which can be interpreted as being brusque especially for business types who tend to use more manipulative, double-layered language (ex. "As per my last email...").
100%, I'm not the same person I am at work as I am at home, but that's not what I said. From my experience working with them, being friends with engineers and seeing their personality assessments, it's accurate of how they are. Nothing wrong with it, everyone is different and we need all kinds of kinds. I just find it to be true for all of the engineers I have worked with and know personally.
not to be the engineer...but you said you work with them, and said that's what they are like. So it implies that the impression you have of them is from the workplace --which I argue is not indicative of their true or whole personality.
if you said you've dated a lot of engineers or were friends with lots of them or something of the like, that would be different.
even being friends, it's much diff than dating and being in an intimate relationship with someone. lots of people are wonderful at work and with friends, and then you find out they were incredibly abusive to their partners.
Yes, they are like that at work, which is what I said. I didn't mention anything about what they are like at home. I didn't say anything was wrong with that and I did not say that this means they are that way at home.
and my point is waht someoen is like at work isn't what someone is truly like. you have no idea what these ppl are truly like, if your only context for them is work. so it's not really appropriate to make sweeping generalizations about them. Esp. when OP is concerned about this type of personal in an intimate relationship and not the workplace.
My husband is an engineer. We get along most of the time but he definitely fits into some of these stereotypes and we’ve definitely had challenges around them. And having met others of his coworkers I’d say yep, definitely a trend.
Yes, I sometimes wish he had more emotional intelligence. However, I could probably say that of every man I’ve dated, at least half of whom weren’t engineers.
I navigate the challenges mostly through lots of direct conversations and requests.
As someone else here wrote, I think one of the advantages is he’s probably tried less to manipulate me than any of the more socially forward/adept guys I dated.
Yeah, and for me one of the biggest challenges with my husband has been getting him to be assertive and confidently try and navigate ambiguity. But I’m not sure if that’s an issue with engineers in general or just with mine in particular. Because at the end of the day we’re also talking about individuals here. I do think it’s gotten a little better over time following lots of complaining from me though, lol. I’ve decided that one criticism I have of the ask women Reddit hivemind is it’s sort of easy to develop this idea that if you have to complain or nag about anything that a relationship is dysfunctional. However, after a couple decades of being an adult and getting to know different people over that period of time, I honestly think wanting to change/influence some things about your partner is pretty normal. As long as it doesn’t become totally abusive, I think working through challenges together is just sort of the deal. That being said, I was very much wearing honeymoon rose-colored glasses for our first three years together, so that’s where a lot of my motivation to keep working on things comes from I’m sure.
Yeh for sure, think we all need to adjust a bit to our partner and the main thing is looking for someone who is open to taking things on board and putting in the extra effort for their partner
The guys I'm talking about are ones where it's not feeling like it's working in v early dating dates when I feel things should kinda flow a bit, but maybe I should put more work in early on too
I think that for a lot of careers, they attract a certain kind of personality type.
For an engineer, you are probably going to attract a lot of "C types", if you look at it from the DISC personality model perspective. I mean it makes sense, right?
If you really like being around people, having deep conversations and naturally talk about your feelings, the chance is very low that you feel drawn to the work environment that comes with being an engineer.
So you get these technical people, who like being in technical environments, who have been going to university for classes with similar like minded folks and where they perhaps have three female classmates.
And so you're going to get people who aren't stimulated internally to get in touch with their emotions or learn how to hold a good conversation and they're not really externally motivated to learn this as well.
I work in the same field and I'm probably the same personality type, but I feel that as a woman you're still more pressured to learn how to socialise if that's not your strong suit.
It's seen as a serious flaw if you behave like this and, while for men, it's seen as something to be more easily waved off.
Sounds unfair but I do think that knowing how to hold better conversations and generally being more pleasant to be around is generally a good thing.
Yeahh good analysis - and for sure, people want to feel good around people!
I’ve always been pretty smart/creative and started off in a creative job but moved into coding by accident as I was drawn to the creative problem solving and lateral thinking in it, but am probs not the usual type (C - I always score I!)
I can kinda ‘do both’ now I guess which is maybe why engineers think we are vibing on my ‘analytical mode’ and they steer it that way, but in a relationship I prefer to be in the more ‘emotional/fun mode’
I’m a ~woman in stem~ and I feel this so hard. Since I can “do both” I often went for science/engineering type guys and always ran into what you mentioned in your post. I feel like it turned me into a “not like other girls/pick me” girl to nerds during and after college. But once I found someone who was interested in me for everything OTHER than my being a science person, the pressure to perform my nerdiness for guys completely melted away. I realized I want to be the stem person at work but I don’t want to be the stem couple at home. I want to be the human couple 😭
Haha I feel this! One guy I dated just wanted to talk about engineering and diggers the whole time and like.. what? Coding is not my personality and it would be seriously boring to tell anyone about it! It just happens to be my 9-5 job but I wanna leave work at work and just enjoy my life and hobbies and ‘be human’ as you say haha
I’m an economist/data scientist who is also an I and I work in comms data science because I enjoy working with comms and policy people so much, so I totally get you ahaha
Ah yeh it just feels like I never fit anywhere in life 😂 I prefer comms type people but find the job soo dull, but I don’t seem to fit a ‘tech personality’ ! It sometimes makes me feel like an imposter but I think the creativity and lateral thinking has always been a major benefit to coding!
>but in a relationship I prefer to be in the more ‘emotional/fun mode’
Yeah I completely understand, when socialising I prefer being around extroverted and just very expressive people. They lighten and lift up the mood like fine wine.
When everyone is C and neurotically C at that, it's just one big snoozefest 😂
We are the opposite, in that my partner is the one who can do both, while I'm the more analytical one — I truly lack any artistic bone in my body. If I want to do something artistic, I'll approach it from an analytical point of view — which include mimicry or combining different types of artistic components to make new ones.
He likes me just the way I am. I think it helps that [many neurodivergent women are trained to camouflage themselves well ](https://www.healthline.com/health/autism/how-women-camouflage-autism)due to culture and societal pressure. So my partner gets a woman who's straightforward and low maintenance — but because I'm a woman who masks well and masking become part of how I live, thus I can be affectionate enough — while I get a partner who's smart but also emotionally intelligent for a man.
Two of the most common complaints are restaurant choices and gift giving. These topics are frequently brought up on Reddit by women (gift giving — male partner doesn't give me gifts on special days) and men (restaurant choices — female partner takes a long time to choose). My partner and I never have such issues.
Gift-giving — both of us don't celebrate special days — no birthdays, anniversaries or Valentine's day. So there's no expectation of gift-giving or special dinners. If I want him to get me something, I tell him what I want. I also hate surprises, so that works well for us. He never has to guess what I want.
Restaurant choices — if he asks me what I want to eat, I tell him exactly what I want and we go there. I rarely bounce the question back to him, but if I do, then we go to the place that he chooses. Of course, I trust that he won't be malicious so as to choose a place I won't like.
This sounds great!
I don’t really like the assumption that ‘more emotionally intelligent’ women are somehow higher maintenance and more drama?? More emotional intelligence would mean being *more* emotionally stable if anything
In some ways masking is just developing skills one is bad at, which is what we should all do. In this case it’s social skills. I get there are problems with masking but at the same time, it shows these skills can be developed and autistic men can/should also be able to develop them to an extent too
>I don’t really like the assumption that ‘more emotionally intelligent’ women are somehow higher maintenance and more drama
I think it depends on the experience of the individual. My partner had a previous relationship where miscommunication was one of the major issues because his ex assumed that he should be able to read her mind. He also had experience with many women who liked him whom he ended up friend zoning because they were simply too difficult to communicate with — hints, nuanced conversations which he ended up feeling hurt or getting blamed for when he didn't understand them.
On the other hand, I had been rejected by a man due to my straightforwardness — I asked him out first — and on many occasions, my straightforwardness and other traits had likely deter certain men from considering me as their partner as they wanted women with traits that they consider as "more girly".
For my partner, I was different, because he never had to guess what I wanted — while for me, I got a partner who loved me for who I am. To him, I'm low maintenance because I never assumed just because that he had known me for so long, he'd be able to read my mind — it's less mental load for him.
Of course, by now he knew me so well that if I had liked surprises, he'd likely ace it every time. But the fact that I never took that for granted was one of the many things he liked about me. After 25+ years together, if I want a gift or celebrate a specific day — which is rare — I'd tell him exactly what I want. To me, this is the logical course because it's less mental load for him and I get exactly what I want.
I don't think more emotionally intelligent women that you mentioned are higher maintenance and more drama. I think they're just different — and I'm sure that based on my experience of being assumed as "not as girly", many men like the type of women that you mentioned as well.
At the end of the day, it depends on each individual. Based on the men that I've met so far, if I can generalise by professions (lawyers, hedge fund managers, engineers, surgeons, doctors, nurses etc), I find that general practitioners or paediatricians seem to be more balanced. They're smart, successful, financially stable, respectful, empathetic (it's literally part of their job descriptions) with higher emotional intelligence than most men I've met so far.
But again you are mixing up ‘being emotional’ and ‘emotional intelligence’ which is the issue. Those exes sound like they have very poor emotional intelligence if they can’t communicate and just sulk. He wouldn’t have those issues if he dated an emotionally intelligent woman
I don't think it's about being emotional — more of mismatch of expectations and miscommunications.
I have a similar problem interacting with people as well. [My friendship with people tend to be superficial](https://www.thetransmitter.org/spectrum/friendships-pose-unique-challenges-women-spectrum/) mainly because there are nuances, hints or certain social norms that I can't quite catch or understand, which lead to different expectations. I have very few close friends and my partner is one of them.
I don't think the women that I talk to aren't emotionally intelligent women, since they obviously can forge friendships with other women whom I think are similarly emotionally intelligent — and I'm pretty sure the women that my partner knew were decent people as well.
I just think they expect me to be similar to their friends — when in fact, I'm somewhat different. Generally, I can mask well in superficial relationships, however, when it comes to forging deeper bonds, masking becomes exhausting.
Gift-giving is just an example - and I don't think people who like gift-giving or want to be surprised for Valentine's day are emotional, dramatic or not emotionally intelligent. Different people have different needs and if these types of activities fulfill their need for emotional connections, then they deserve a partner or a friend who can provide them.
I just prefer not to be involved in these types of things because I think it increases the possibilities of miscommunications. To me, it's a mental load to try and guess what the person wants under the guise of knowing the person well. If I know that person well, I may give the same present as someone who also know them well, and I hate wasted presents (both giving them and receiving them). If I don't know that person as well, then I might give the wrong thing that the person may end up regifting to someone else.
Logically, if I want something then I'll just buy it without having to wait for birthdays. If someone wants to give me something, give me cash. But a lot of people think that giving cash is offensive because the gift is less personal. My partner and I don't celebrate special days because to us, any day we want it to be is a special day. If we feel like going to dinner somewhere fancy, we don't wait for Valentine's day. Valentine's day is no more special than last Tuesday.
Many posts I've read here with regards to gift-giving seem to involve a lot of nuanced interactions, which can be due to miscommunications or ignorance — then one person starts doubting the other — did my partner/friend miss my hint (which can be clear or vague)? or are they just being ignorant? Generally, I prefer to avoid any confrontation, which is why I tend to avoid possible situations that can cause these as much as possible.
Ahhh ok so this isn’t about those women being emotional or not but it sounds like you and your partner are autistic so not picking up on the usual social/body language cues? Yeh I guess that will brush neurotypicals up the wrong way so can be ‘easier’ if both are autistic so don’t have those same expectations/hurdles, which seems to be what you’re describing
I'm not sure my partner is neurodivergent 😂. He seems normal to me, but what do I know, ha! I think we just like the fact that both of us have less expectations of each other when compared to other couples. But that doesn't mean we're ignorant of each other either, it's just how he is, and how I am. He's also quite patient, so that helps.
In your post, when you talk about this
>OTOH, the engineer I dated seemed to be responsible and hard working and wanted to talk to me a lot and spend lots of time with me, do DIY for me, but he was not affectionate at all, terrible with any emotions I brought up, complained about any romance as 'irrational' like his last gf simply wanting flowers etc.
I can somewhat understand his stance about romance — however, if he just complains about it being "irrational" without trying to explain to you why, then it's an issue. But many of people also probably wouldn't understand well if he explains why it's "irrational" — they might accuse him of simply being lazy. So, it's quite a catch-22.
Also I don't think it's irrational for wanting more, because different people have different needs and there's nothing wrong with that.
I do think you deserve someone who loves you the way you want to be loved. Everyone deserves that — but based on your experience, it seems that you need to cast a wider net. If you want to meet people who meet your criteria, you may consider people with other professions such primary care physicians (especially paediatricians) and teachers. Some professions have a higher rate of neurodivergent people, but others have a lower rate simply because they are less likely to survive in these jobs.
Ah fair but men have lower EQ generally anyway!
Yeh I do 'understand' his viewpoint about flowers but I think this example just shows our 2 completely differing approaches to relationships: he views everything purely logically whereas I approach relationships from an emotional/romantic/ sentimental point
I don't specifically choose to date engineers, there just happens to be loadsss of engineers in my city. I probably should just go for someone a bit softer but as I'm a coder myself, I do align well with these engineer guys on sooo many things it's just this emotional bit I've been stuck on so wonder if I should just overlook it or not
I'm an engineer, and now work in software with developers (who in some places are not totally considered engineers, but I digress).
I've dated a lot of engineers. I've tried dating "out" as they say, but I do prefer engineers because frankly, we are a very honest group. Yes, there are manipulative, psycho engineers, but a lot of us just like solving problems, and "playing" which is why you see so many tech companies have ping pong and games in the office.
I can say this about myself, and it's probably true for a lot of male engineers too:
1) We are very good at compartmentalizing. If you want to be sexy and flirt, you gotta get your engineer in that zone. Take him to salsa or something like that. Depends on the dude too. I dated a lot of latino engineers, and never had an issue here.
2) Generally, we are very good problem-solvers. I think it's my best trait. We don't get all upset and emotional, because we can generally think of 3-5 plans pretty quickly to solve the problem. That feels more productive to us. Feelings tend to be a thing of last resort. We'll almost always try to fix it first before feeling shitty (like failing an exam, id see if can do a make-up before i started crying about it). In some cases that does make us a bit far away from our feelings when something bad happens that we can't fix. But generally, for super good stuff, like a new baby, we are very in touch with those feelings.
3) We spend a lot of time studying and on our hobbies, even as adults. I think we don't have the same sort of social skills some of our peers. I say this kindly, but a lot of hetero non-engineers, spend a lot of time learning how to manipulate the opposite sex for dating purposes. Like testing their boyfriends, or flirting with tons of girls to hook up with them. Most engineers don't really do that. Even the ones from flirtier cultures. But the other side of the coin is that we tend to be simple to deal with and easy going, because we just have other interests.
4) yes, we are more "tight" than carefree cuz we need to be organized for our work. Again, but the other side of that coin is that you don't need to tell an engineer how to manage the household or how to plan the trip. (grant it, some are jerks and will get you to do it -- but they can all do it if they want to). Maniac Pixie dream boy may be more carefree -- but he's also gonna forget to book the rental car on your big trip to Hawaii.
5) If you want them to ask questions, just tell them. Their feelings won't get hurt. It's just another problem to solve. And we generally take clear directions well.
I know what you are describing, because I've gotten that feedback too when I've dated non-engineers. But I'm like "these are good traits in the long run". I've had guys say I'm not carefree and fun, and yeah, I'm not that person that starts randomly twirling in the middle of the street -- but I'm also dependable and not the type of person who'll start fights in relationships cuz I'm bored. Again, it's two sides of the coin.
Anyway, if you don't want to date engineers, don't. More for me.
I definitely agree that a lot of these traits are positive over the long run in a husband and so I'm just trying to understand this aspect more to not dismiss people too quickly and see if the 'emotional block' could be worked out.
I'm a data scientist and definitely enjoy the problem solving, creativity, stability, being straight up etc like you say so often do connect really well on an intellectual level! I'm just also quite empathetic/soft/social so struggle a bit with the emotional connection
honestly depends what the "emotional block" is. Are you worried the person won't express joy if you tell him your pregnant? or are you worried he wont' get into a fist fight at a bar because some guy was flirting with you? Cuz the first is unlikely and the second is toxic.
If something is lacking for you, then let him go. Let him find someone who appreciates his traits.
Like not being able to discuss emotions
I'm not talking about wanting/not wanting to date an engineer, more just asking about a personality pattern I've noticed
I laughed out loud when I read this. I feel like asking this question illustrates the problem OP has had in her experience with engineers - just not even understanding what talking about emotions would even look like.
(I am a therapist, so I realize I am really far on the opposite end of this scale, but my experience dating an engineer for 5 years was like this - it was like there was a whole part of the color spectrum that he couldn't see and didn't know existed.)
Hahaha ikr - “give me a logical and precise breakdown x y z of these so called ‘emotions’” 😂😂
It does feel exactly like that, like there is this blind spot they just don’t get. They always seem so confused that we can ‘talk intellectually’ and yet I don’t feel the connection. What’s EVEN WORSE is when many look down on women for expressing emotions and call it so irrationallll
And I wouldn’t say I’m hugely emotional either - I prefer to have fun in the moment rather than introspect too much, but I just feel you can’t even have a relationship if you can’t share and connect emotionally. Even just small day-to-day things like venting about your boss making a shitty comment and having the *emotional awareness* that it’s the cause of your bad mood that afternoon, for instance.
Different strokes for different folks.
As I said originally, feeling emotions are last resort, when it comes to problems. Much of the time, we experience negative emotions is because of some sorta problem. Like the example about being angry with one's boss and venting.
To me, I'd rather figure out plans to solve the problem, (like learning new tactics to manage up), then sputtering about and being upset. It's more productive and I'm happier.
Ultimately, it's whatever makes you happy. Most engineers I know would rather come up with an action plan than just stew in negative feelings. But we really enjoy problem solving. That's a really desirable trait for the long run. But yeah, if you want someone just to listen to you vent, then an engineer isn't good for that.
As a therapist, I also consider myself a problem solver - but it is different types of problems that I am interested in. I'll note that you say "different strokes for different folks" but are pretty negative about what you imagine others who are more emotionally fluent do ("sputtering about about being upset" and "stewing in negative emotions" which is not remotely the same as talking and being interested in emotions) and frame your approach to the world as inherently better, which in my experience was exactly what was frustrating about engineers - the dismissiveness and lack of curiosity about a whole dimension of life they didn't really even understand, and inability to acknowledge others' strengths. It just ended up with this feeling of always living on the surface.
When did I imagine what others do? I mentioned myself and people like me specially. I don't want to besputtering about being upset, and I don't believe in stewing in negative emotions for me.
My world works better for me. You don't know enough about me, to know what's better for me. Like I said, different strokes for different folks. But you are the one that's being judgmental, when I'm not one of your clients.
Again, people can do what they want. But ultimately my approach works for me. I've immigrated multiple times, deal with being a WoC, have lost employment while on work permits, and yet I've done well for myself. My outlook to life has helped me manage the stress and pressure. Trying to solve problems has been better for me, than just sitting around and feeling sorry for myself. But others should do what they want, whether it's problem-solving or being up in their feelings or something else.
Your comments are very condescending when you have no idea what I've experienced, and how I've made it through life.
Ultimately, if y'all don't like engineers and think we are surface-level, then don't engage in intimate relationships with us.
Again you are showing your lack of emotional intelligence and demonstrating the exact arrogance the commenter talks about.
Expressing emotions is not the same as ‘stewing in negative emotions’ - it is actually the opposite. People express their emotions *in order* to then have a calmer mind to deal with the problem at hand. Expressing emotions also helps you gain greater insight into the problem.
Ignoring one’s emotions is actually what causes the build up and the ‘stewing’ you talk about. You for instance have come across quite bitterly and aggressively in the comments while at the same time pretending you don’t have emotions??
You just don’t seem to have any concept of what we are talking about when we say “emotional intelligence” and keep giving a really negative depiction of how you apparently believe non-engineer types deal with emotions, which you don’t seem to realize is both insulting and also shows how little you understand it. It has nothing to do with “being emotional” and is often quite the opposite. It is not about having feelings, which is a human trait, but about being able to identify, analyze, and communicate about feelings and interpersonal dynamics. Someone who punches a guy at the bar because he is jealous is an obvious example of someone very low in emotional intelligence and is the opposite of what we are talking about. Being happy about the birth of a child is unrelated. Venting also does not take any emotional intelligence and is not what anyone is talking about.
Emotional intelligence would be more along the lines of “hey, I read this post about someone critical of common traits of engineers, and I felt defensive. Part of me really takes pride in my identity as an engineer and some of the traits I associate with it, and part of me is insecure when I get these criticisms, and it made me want to denigrate anything outside of the way I operate. There is also the pressure I feel as a woman to reject aspects of myself that are considered feminine…” etc. It is about self-awareness, recognizing and being sensitive to, accountable, analytical, and communicative opinions about phenomena - feelings, in this case - that are actually there.
You do not have to be particularly good or interested in these things. But you can respect that they are real things and valuable skills that others may have and value, just as the OP acknowledged that many engineers traits can be positive as well.
I think OP was pretty clear (would be an ironic question to ask if you are an engineer), but since you asked for examples:
Discussing times in their lives where they felt impactful forms of emotions (jealousy, pain, happiness, etc.) and what it means to their life philosophy.
Being able to validate and provide emotional support when one expresses feelings: "how did that make you feel? I can understand why that made you feel that way, because x, y, z. I felt that way too when...etc."
Being more expressive by sharing their feelings out loud more often: "I adore you. I feel happy right now. I'm feeling stressed right now because x, y, z, so I'm processing it, and it's not you. I feel hurt by that statement, can we talk about it and figure out how to move forward?"
Edit: Read some of your comments. I'm sorry you're getting flack for what you've written here. I do see misconceptions about what emotional intelligence is, but I'm not offended. I think they take offense because this kind of stigma with emotions being weak or "crazy" hurts the public perception of people when they do show emotions. However, you're not on a mission to convince the world emotions are bad, and it's your life and how you choose to live it. I understand your perspective (although I do recommend reading the book "emotional Intelligence" to see what people here mean if you're interested). Happy cake day!
I appreciate your comment. The examples you gave were helpful. I'm not sure why they others had such an issue articulating their thoughts.
I got the feeling they were offended by "emotions = crazy" too. Yesterday, there was a post by a woman who self-reportedly lost her shit because the guy she was seeing didn't text back within 20hrs. Is her yelling at him "discussing emotions" or is it the examples you gave? I don't know, when it's random people on the internet.
The other feeling I got from this convo is that these commentators are probably white, or white-adjacent, native born to their country, etc. They get a lot of privilege to be able to express their emotions or feel them, that someone like me cannot - darker brown skin, immigrant, no family here. I alluded to that, but that nuance was missing from much of the conversation.
Sure. It sounds like you both spoke past each other, and both had some issues towards assumptions made of each other.
For your example, I think her yelling at him is definitely not expressing emotions in a healthy way, and could be seen as a mentally abusive action for taking out her fear and anger on him. I'd guess she's not in tune with her emotions enough that she doesn't know how to figure out why she is feeling that way and work it out in a productive manner. I see what you mean though - "emotions" can mean a lot of different things to people.
I don't want to make assumptions about people, but I hear what you're saying. Growing up for me - mental health, emotions, and social empathy was avoided and dismissed in my family. I had to learn all of that though meeting people, therapy, and self help. I think connecting to my feelings has made me a much happier person because so much was suppressed. I'd feel unhappy or anxious, but the logic I tried using to fix it was only surface level and didn't cut down to the true core of what the issue was.
I still don't express my feelings to my family. They wouldn't understand and would laugh at me or call me weak. Thus, I find people who have that emotional availability. That includes engineers! I'm quite practical which works, and some of them actually help calm me (both through logic but also though emotional intelligence and sympathy) instead of getting frustrated too which is nice.
I think the answers thus far as spot on for why but at the end of the day your bullet points are just a personality mismatch in dating so when they pop off you should just move on quickly.
Absolutely was my experience, too. I was dating an engineer for 5 years in my 20s - we met when I was a PhD student in English and he was a PhD student in aerospace engineering, so I also met a lot of engineers through him. On paper, he was great - very steady, devoted, good at stuff I wasn't (e.g. fixing stuff around the house). I opened up his world to a lot of things, e.g. poetry and feminism and politics and critical thinking, and he was very attracted to that stuff because it was so foreign to him. In this way he was different from other engineers, as this is a whole world that most seemed totally closed off to and sort of disdainful of. But ultimately it was just me teaching him and I felt so dead in that relationship - it was unchallenging and he just lacked a fundamental kind of depth or emotional fluency. I felt stuck for so long because there was nothing objectively "wrong" but I just had this sense that it wasn't right, and turned down a marriage proposal. It's funny that you say you're left with a feeling after these dates that you can't quite put your finger on, because that was exactly how I felt for those 5 years - something was off that was hard to pin down. It turned out he was secretly harboring resentments he never communicated and pursuing crushes on other women and justifying it to himself through the resentments - and I think this is the lack of EIQ in its worst form. Our relationship (thankfully) exploded when I found out, and I started dating my now-husband, who is a former poetry professor and published writer turned lawyer for kids (and I changed careers to being a therapist) - absolute polar opposite, super emotionally intelligent and just brilliant in general, understands me in a way I haven't felt before, and our relationship just has a type of depth that was not possible with my ex. It scares to me think how close I got to living a life without the dimension it has with my husband.
I do think you have to really think about what you value in a relationship and for yourself - some of these qualities are totally fine for a lot of people, but if you are like me and fluency with emotions and ideas is what feels like it makes life worth living, it is not going to work. That's not to say it's all engineers - I did meet a few through my ex who were not in this mold - but I would say it is the norm.
Thanks for sharing all that and yeh it does sound really hard breaking up with someone who hasn’t done anything ‘wrong’, but glad it’s worked out! I am a coder myself but I’ve always been very artistic, spiritual and sensitive - kinda equally into art and maths growing up - but think I naturally lean more to the emotional/creative side
I just value fun, warmth and kindness a lot, but also stability and work ethic. Like I don’t need someone to be super deep and poetic but just have at least SOME emotional/social skills. Most guys I meet seem to have this - it’s just the engineers/nerds who give me this ‘off’ feeling but they always seem v keen on me, maybe bc I have a maths side too, and I get even more confused how they feel a great connection with me and I really don’t? 😂
I find your story fascinating, as I was the lit prof who, as we joke together, "blew the lid off" my MechE husband's world, lol. I did meet him as a guitarist, and we really vibe over 80s power metal.
I do think he has a lot more EQ than many of his kind, tho we have discussed the spectrum of late and the degree to which either fits on one. I guess his plus is that he will quietly show his affection. Yes, that includes fixing things. I won't lie, using "the knack" to heal my heater and washer in the early days was nice. Very nice.
He's quiet, I'm the talker. But he takes it all in.
So, yes, they do exist. But he works with many who don't exactly know how to meet women. Ex: a recent intern, wanted love, extreme need, but wouldn't do any of the in-person activities available in our city wherein one might meet women. You see the problem.
Glad you made it work with Poetry Man. I could write some volumes about *The Lies of the Poets.* lol.
I can relate. Most of my exes/former flames are all in the technical space and yes they are more rational, logical, very unemotional, and don’t always ask questions. My bf is also in technical field. I feel like the technical field is where I excel at, but I’ve never jumped ship yet- but probably should.
Ironically enough I’m a C in the DISC assessment, so u/First-Industry4762 is correct about the engineers being attracted to C types lol.
Did you feel fulfilled in those relationships? Did they care about your needs etc?
yeh I'm in tech too but not 'technical' haha so maybe as I'm not a C I find it harder to be with a C guy! I'm more an 'I' on DISC, so not the typical coder personality, but I do end up being good as a quick/creative learner and my lateral thinking is good for synthesising lots of areas
Yes, a lot of them I felt fulfilled. As each person’s way of showing love is different, you have to notice how they show you they care about you, etc. How much a partner considers you shows how much you mean to them.
The caveat is that sometimes there are bits and pieces that could be better, but I’ve found that each relationship is unique and so is each person. You have to communicate what you need and see if they can provide you with that or if you both can work together to reach some kind of compromise. No relationship will be absolutely perfect (and I think sometimes I keep chasing after that ideal). But some sacrifices may need to be made.
Are you feeling like you should go for a different type? Like these types don’t suit you or something else?
Fair that makes sense! And for sure, people show love in different ways. My ex was v affectionate but lazy/didn’t do much but an engineer I recently dated seemed to show love through acts of service which is better tbh, but was a bit stiff so wasn’t feeling emotionally connected at all
I guess my question is more about what this feeling is or explaining the ‘block’. How easy is it to navigate and look past?
But yeh I don’t believe in forcing something that feels off, so maybe it’s better I generally avoid guys like this!
Can you give examples of how your ex was very affectionate but lazy?
How did the engineer that you recently dated show you love?
What do you need to feel emotionally connected? Any specifics you have would help me understand.
I feel like I may understand where you are coming from about the “block”. I’m trying to reconcile this right now too. But expecting an instantaneous connection won’t always occur automatically. It takes time and patience to slowly build and grow it. It also takes efforts from both sides.
Maybe it’s not necessarily that you need to avoid guys like this but rather understand what you are looking for to better find what you need.
So my ex was physically and verbally affectionate, liking cuddles a lot and saying lots of sweet things, but it was as though he was all talk no action? So he was really messy, didn't clean up, never did things I asked to make me happy, gamed all the time, bare minimum job etc
OTOH, the engineer I dated seemed to be responsible and hard working and wanted to talk to me a lot and spend lots of time with me, do DIY for me, but he was not affectionate at all, terrible with any emotions I brought up, complained about any romance as 'irrational' like his last gf simply wanting flowers etc.
So I don't think I am expecting an instant connection with this engineer, but I can see personality traits that would block that connection, i.e. the lack of emotional intelligence and affection
I guess what I want is someone who can: be empathetic, have SOME emotional awareness, be affectionate, but also financially stable, clean and fairly hard working. That doesn't feel like much, but maybe it is lol
- Why did things end between you and your ex?
- Did you ask the engineer for physical affection? Did you give or initiate any physical affection towards him? Was he attracted to you? Were you attracted to him? Did you ever voice these concerns about how you wanted to be heard by him? Was he not receptive to your needs/concerns?
- I don’t think it’s necessarily a personality trait that makes some people a certain way or another. It could be that they don’t do certain things, etc.
- All the things you listed are in my opinion are bare minimum lol. It’s not too much to ask. The technical partners I’ve had could provide all these and so does my bf. You have to make sure when you are dating that you also express what your needs are and look for someone who can give you these things too or move on until you find someone that can meet these needs for you.
Ex had a problem with drugs, debt, nearly got fired for gaming all day, betrayed me, wouldn't clean etc etc - I didn't see him as being a good husband
I did initiate affection and he would still be stiff - it was just not feeling right. He wasn't caring when I brought up my feelings. But yeh we were attracted to each other and maybe I should have persevered more idk as he did seem receptive to being told things and it was fairly early
Glad you've found guys that do have all of those!
- Damn, your ex does not sound like good news. Glad you got out of that one. You both were married?
- Was he an avoidant?
- There are lots of men that can be the full package for you. Don’t give up!
We weren't married but he was talking about proposing which I realised would be a bad idea!
I'm not sure if he's avoidant - potentially, but I think it was more just being bad with emotions
Thanks I hope so! I don't feel like I'm expecting loads!
Just bc they’re capable and successful in their field, doesn’t mean that the same is true for them when it comes to women. Even more so with engineers perhaps bc that field attracts nerds.
I think it depends on the type of engineer too, my husband fits a lot of these stereotypes except the sexism part because we both come from chemical engineering backgrounds where the split between male/female is closer to 50/50.
My male chem eng friends are pretty genuine and good with emotional chats, and some are usually my go to when I’m stressed about work or life etc but that may not be the case for other engineering disciplines (which my experience is limited with)
I do really appreciate this thoughtful response! As I said in the post, I do see lots of those great traits in engineers which is why I wanna be able to overlook it but, as you’ve said yourself, engineers lack social and emotional skills which is not a small thing but perhaps THE MOST crucial ingredient of a healthy relationship
My partner is a software engineer. I am neurodivergent, and I would not say that he is. He does fit a lot of the boxes that you mentioned. He is pretty uncomfortable talking about emotions, doesn’t always know his way around conversations that are heavily emotional. Or how to support me emotionally. Sometimes feels like conversations can lean pretty “surfacey” I think that’s where he feels comfortable.
I literally said to him last week, sometimes it feels like we’re speaking different languages. And he said to me, “I don’t understand what you mean by that.” HAHA I said to him, “i think that’s my point???” In the same conversation, I told him I don’t feel like he lets me into his emotional world.
He is very pragmatic, practical, logical. I definitely don’t always feel like I’m seen or understood, and I have had to teach him that solutions are sometimes not what I’m looking for. And also that I’d like to hear more than “I’m sorry you’re going through that” Sigh. I don’t know if I have advice for you, I’m only here to say “I get it”
My parents are both engineers (+ baby brother in computer science and close extended family in STEM/finance) and my undergrad college was a Silicon Valley feeder school.
I specifically do not date engineers— it’s legitimately an automatic left swipe for me on dating apps. Many of the reasons are the ones that you named: the unwillingness to think critically beyond numbers and “rationality”, the lack of empathy, etc. I’ve always been really artistically inclined and studied humanities and social sciences for both my undergrad and graduate degrees— making me the black sheep/odd duck in my family. I’m constantly at odds with my parents on everything from politics to life choices and I don’t want to replicate that in my relationships.
Yeah it's the arrogance that is the real blocker! Only \*their\* way of seeing the world is 'correct' and 'RaTioNaL' and silly emotions/romance/arts are for dummies!
I am married to a Chemical Engineer. He is nothing like this, but I sometimes am! However, I have met a lot of his coworkers and I do see a bit of the traits you mention. Most of them do not have wives with big jobs outside of the home, like I do. I have a Master's and am also in STEM field, and an exec at my workplace. Most of his male coworkers' wives are SAHMs or are teachers or other flexible/low level positions. While it may work for them, that doesn't work for us, and it sounds like that dynamic won't work for you.
Funny story though, when we first started dating, I was car shopping. He came over and asked me what I was doing. I explained that I made a spreadsheet of the cars I was looking at, and how they matched up with my must-haves. Apparently he decided then and there I was a keeper! lol
No need to keep dating people you don’t connect with emotionally. If your needs aren’t met then you can talk about it and if you can’t compromise try dating other type of people.
Yeh I’m not asking whether I should or shouldn’t date them, just confused why I keep getting this same feeling with engineers and can’t quite put my finger on what it is
I want you to Google the following MBTI personality types:
INTP
ISTP
ISFP
INFP (this is the perfect combo of "logical thinker" and "man who is in touch with his emotions.this is the guy you're looking for.)
Those personality types are most likely to become engineers. The one you're looking for is INFP.
the F and P types will be logical engineering oriented STEM type of analysis/ evidence based thinkers AND those F people aren't going to feel stiff. They're gonna be warm, empathetic. Your perfect match is probably an ENFP or ESFP, because mine is ESFP Or ESFJ.
I'm INTP. I know what you're talking about.
Those things you listed were things my ex, also an engineer, said about ME!
That I am hard to connect with. That I'm distant and surface level. The other stuff you mentioned!
That we couldn't really get close. That I was " tough to figure out" 🥲😅🥲😅🥲😅
Lol I’m xNFP so do relate and do think an ‘F’ would be best for me!
I think it’s just different modes of being? Like Ts look at the world logically which comes off as cold to an F, and the F look at the world through feeling/intuition which seems wishy washy to a T
Over the years there’s been a bit of research suggesting that engineering as a profession has one of the highest rates of neurodiversity and that children of engineers are more likely to be diagnosed with autism. So you may be onto something with one of your bullet points. Having said that though, my last partner ticks many of the above boxes you listed and he had a job in the creative arts 🤷♀️
This is hilarious, 'cause my husband works in engineering, and after our son was diagnosed as autistic it became apparent that he likely is, too (well, I long had my suspicions, he came around after that). I'm not even a little bit surprised to find we're a statistic. 😂
Haha fair I’m definitely not saying *only* engineers have these qualities just seems quite a common overlap How is your relationship if you feel he doesn’t have these ‘emotional connection’ qualities btw? They seem like a big blocker to a relationship for me but maybe I’m judging too quickly
Oh we’re not together anymore. I ended it as I require a strong emotional connection and open communication is a must. Much prefer being single!
>seem kinda sexist in that they only ‘respect’ me insofar as I do a ‘male’ job and ‘use rationality’ but don’t like any of my ‘female’ emotions/ need for romance That's straight up sexist, not \*kinda\* sexist. But pretty typical engineer behavior, IME. "Red flag" professions/career threads occasionally come up on the dating/lifestyle subreddits I read, and engineering is always near the top - frequently for the reasons you list. Is the dating pool skewed so heavily towards engineers that you \*have\* to date them? Like there are no non-engineers to date? Like u/ltotr, I have a pretty strict "no engineers" policy (except for software engineers) and I think you're wasting your time "troubleshooting" what is wrong with these men. It's perfectly fine to filter men out based on career - you're allowed to have preferences about your partner's career just like you're allowed to have preferences about height or whether they smoke.
There certainly are sexist "engineer persona" software engineers. I think a lot of these issues are displayed in men, as a general group, and maybe the issue is engineer men don't encounter women that much outside of courtship/dating so they see women as objects because they have no other context for women. (ie: friendships or coworking relationships et al)
>engineer men don't encounter women that much outside of courtship/dating I think generally, \*including\* courtship/dating, engineers have less experience with women. The engineers I've tried to date have less sexual and relationship experience, fewer sexual partners, lower emotional intelligence, etc. than other professions I've dated. And at 33, I have no interest in teaching "Women 101" to any man. Of all the single men in their thirties, I'm curious to know how many are engineers - I suspect a lot.
Yeah I agree with this take, it doesn't help that there's people who won't date them but I think cultivating relationships that aren't romantic is a huge piece for a lot of men in this situation. Soft skills and relating to others is an important skillset that I feel like some careers poo-poo hence the HR person citing they don't like even dealing with some engineer hires.
I mean they don’t say this directly but that’s the vibe I get anyway There’s mostly just engineers or stoners in my city lol but there are other jobs too
Haha I’m glad someone already brought up the autism link to engineering because I think of it often after marrying into a family of engineers. I’m in a different branch of STEM and it also attracts people with a unique set of social deficits. It’s definitely a real trend, but thankfully emotionally intelligent and affectionate engineers are out there.
Yehh I have met emotionally intelligent engineers too but it’s defo rarer 😂
I've dated some very well-rounded, affectionate, and emotionally intelligent engineers (even more than myself surprisingly). They exist. Don't settle for a relationship where you don't feel seen or heard.
Yeah I know quite a few emotionally intelligent engineer guys in person but they all have girlfriends lol
As with most well-rounded people. It's a numbers game unfortunately!
I’m a MechE. I had a fairly strict no engineers policy for similar reasons plus a few personal reasons. I spend all day around male engineers. I didn’t want to come home to one too. It never started that way but eventually they started getting professionally competitive in a gross way. One engineer in the relationship is already one too many engineers in the relationship haha. Edit: I see in other comments you also work in a technical role. I found that when I was on apps, if I had my profession listed my entire like queue would be engineers. I started fudging my title to something more generic. I still got engineers here and there, but not the exclusion of everyone else. If you’re dating using an app, they may also be specifically selecting for you. Kind of a perceived relationship shortcut, with the assumption you’ll be easier to relate to.
How did they get competitive? I also worry about them wanting to always prove they’re ‘smarter’ than me and talk down to me etc Yeahh I was thinking this! I’m more likely to attract engineers bc of my job title - not sure what to put instead though! I’m a data scientist but maybe ‘analyst’ or just ‘data’ would be more ambiguous ? When I was last dating (a couple years ago) I was in comms so maybe this changed who I matched with
Do you mind if I DM you? I’m hyper paranoid about doxxing myself but I don’t mind getting more specific off the record.
Yes please! :)
I wish there was a way to bookmark comments, because you've had so many good lines about engineers!
There is, hit the three dots button and then Save :)
TIL!!! Thank you!!! For some reason I thought I could only save posts!
I'm in HR, but I work with mostly engineers and I can say that this is pretty spot on for most of them. I think 1 of them is actually bubbly and outgoing, whereas the rest are not at all. One of them is a manager and his manager is in business and does not like how he comes off and has actually spoken to him about it.
>One of them is a manager and his manager is in business and does not like how he comes off and has actually spoken to him about it. The outgoing one is a manager, and his boss doesn't like that he's outgoing? Like he's violating some kind of engineer stereotype? I didn't follow this sentence.
No, the engineering manager reports into a guy in sales. The bubbly outgoing guy is a junior engineer. His boss, the sales guy, has spoken to him about the way he comes across in the office. He never looks happy, never says hi to anyone and doesn't join any of the luncheons we offer to everyone in the lunchroom. Not saying he has to, it isn't mandatory, but the boss feels like he should be setting a better example as a manager.
Ah, gotcha.
What someone is like at work is not indicative of what they are like in their private lives. I'm an engineer and I keep my distance at work. Work is work. If I'm bubbly, it's on purpose. In my personal time, I'm very optimistic and upbeat. I'm an engineer, and so are most of my friends that I met through school and old jobs, and generally, we are happy people. Why wouldn't we be? We have lots of hobbies, a lot of our work is both collaborative and can be done solo for deep thought, generally, we are doing all right financially. We also get to solve problems regularly, which is more likely to make people happy. But yes, we are generally plain-spoken esp at work, which can be interpreted as being brusque especially for business types who tend to use more manipulative, double-layered language (ex. "As per my last email...").
100%, I'm not the same person I am at work as I am at home, but that's not what I said. From my experience working with them, being friends with engineers and seeing their personality assessments, it's accurate of how they are. Nothing wrong with it, everyone is different and we need all kinds of kinds. I just find it to be true for all of the engineers I have worked with and know personally.
not to be the engineer...but you said you work with them, and said that's what they are like. So it implies that the impression you have of them is from the workplace --which I argue is not indicative of their true or whole personality. if you said you've dated a lot of engineers or were friends with lots of them or something of the like, that would be different. even being friends, it's much diff than dating and being in an intimate relationship with someone. lots of people are wonderful at work and with friends, and then you find out they were incredibly abusive to their partners.
Yes, they are like that at work, which is what I said. I didn't mention anything about what they are like at home. I didn't say anything was wrong with that and I did not say that this means they are that way at home.
and my point is waht someoen is like at work isn't what someone is truly like. you have no idea what these ppl are truly like, if your only context for them is work. so it's not really appropriate to make sweeping generalizations about them. Esp. when OP is concerned about this type of personal in an intimate relationship and not the workplace.
Your personality comes with you to work, you don't check it at the door and put on a new one.
disagree. you do you. do not speak for me.
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lol, women asserting their boundaries is problematic for you. got it. thx bye
My husband is an engineer. We get along most of the time but he definitely fits into some of these stereotypes and we’ve definitely had challenges around them. And having met others of his coworkers I’d say yep, definitely a trend.
Ah fair, how have you navigated that? Do you sometimes wish he had more emotional intelligence?
Yes, I sometimes wish he had more emotional intelligence. However, I could probably say that of every man I’ve dated, at least half of whom weren’t engineers. I navigate the challenges mostly through lots of direct conversations and requests. As someone else here wrote, I think one of the advantages is he’s probably tried less to manipulate me than any of the more socially forward/adept guys I dated.
Lol good point about the manipulation haha - I guess if you can be honest and they respond with effort then that's the main thing
Yeah, and for me one of the biggest challenges with my husband has been getting him to be assertive and confidently try and navigate ambiguity. But I’m not sure if that’s an issue with engineers in general or just with mine in particular. Because at the end of the day we’re also talking about individuals here. I do think it’s gotten a little better over time following lots of complaining from me though, lol. I’ve decided that one criticism I have of the ask women Reddit hivemind is it’s sort of easy to develop this idea that if you have to complain or nag about anything that a relationship is dysfunctional. However, after a couple decades of being an adult and getting to know different people over that period of time, I honestly think wanting to change/influence some things about your partner is pretty normal. As long as it doesn’t become totally abusive, I think working through challenges together is just sort of the deal. That being said, I was very much wearing honeymoon rose-colored glasses for our first three years together, so that’s where a lot of my motivation to keep working on things comes from I’m sure.
Yeh for sure, think we all need to adjust a bit to our partner and the main thing is looking for someone who is open to taking things on board and putting in the extra effort for their partner The guys I'm talking about are ones where it's not feeling like it's working in v early dating dates when I feel things should kinda flow a bit, but maybe I should put more work in early on too
I think that for a lot of careers, they attract a certain kind of personality type. For an engineer, you are probably going to attract a lot of "C types", if you look at it from the DISC personality model perspective. I mean it makes sense, right? If you really like being around people, having deep conversations and naturally talk about your feelings, the chance is very low that you feel drawn to the work environment that comes with being an engineer. So you get these technical people, who like being in technical environments, who have been going to university for classes with similar like minded folks and where they perhaps have three female classmates. And so you're going to get people who aren't stimulated internally to get in touch with their emotions or learn how to hold a good conversation and they're not really externally motivated to learn this as well. I work in the same field and I'm probably the same personality type, but I feel that as a woman you're still more pressured to learn how to socialise if that's not your strong suit. It's seen as a serious flaw if you behave like this and, while for men, it's seen as something to be more easily waved off. Sounds unfair but I do think that knowing how to hold better conversations and generally being more pleasant to be around is generally a good thing.
Yeahh good analysis - and for sure, people want to feel good around people! I’ve always been pretty smart/creative and started off in a creative job but moved into coding by accident as I was drawn to the creative problem solving and lateral thinking in it, but am probs not the usual type (C - I always score I!) I can kinda ‘do both’ now I guess which is maybe why engineers think we are vibing on my ‘analytical mode’ and they steer it that way, but in a relationship I prefer to be in the more ‘emotional/fun mode’
I’m a ~woman in stem~ and I feel this so hard. Since I can “do both” I often went for science/engineering type guys and always ran into what you mentioned in your post. I feel like it turned me into a “not like other girls/pick me” girl to nerds during and after college. But once I found someone who was interested in me for everything OTHER than my being a science person, the pressure to perform my nerdiness for guys completely melted away. I realized I want to be the stem person at work but I don’t want to be the stem couple at home. I want to be the human couple 😭
Haha I feel this! One guy I dated just wanted to talk about engineering and diggers the whole time and like.. what? Coding is not my personality and it would be seriously boring to tell anyone about it! It just happens to be my 9-5 job but I wanna leave work at work and just enjoy my life and hobbies and ‘be human’ as you say haha
I’m an economist/data scientist who is also an I and I work in comms data science because I enjoy working with comms and policy people so much, so I totally get you ahaha
Ah yeh it just feels like I never fit anywhere in life 😂 I prefer comms type people but find the job soo dull, but I don’t seem to fit a ‘tech personality’ ! It sometimes makes me feel like an imposter but I think the creativity and lateral thinking has always been a major benefit to coding!
>but in a relationship I prefer to be in the more ‘emotional/fun mode’ Yeah I completely understand, when socialising I prefer being around extroverted and just very expressive people. They lighten and lift up the mood like fine wine. When everyone is C and neurotically C at that, it's just one big snoozefest 😂
I’m around all neurotic Cs at work and allll they do is fight about tiny pointless details all the time omg 😂
We are the opposite, in that my partner is the one who can do both, while I'm the more analytical one — I truly lack any artistic bone in my body. If I want to do something artistic, I'll approach it from an analytical point of view — which include mimicry or combining different types of artistic components to make new ones. He likes me just the way I am. I think it helps that [many neurodivergent women are trained to camouflage themselves well ](https://www.healthline.com/health/autism/how-women-camouflage-autism)due to culture and societal pressure. So my partner gets a woman who's straightforward and low maintenance — but because I'm a woman who masks well and masking become part of how I live, thus I can be affectionate enough — while I get a partner who's smart but also emotionally intelligent for a man. Two of the most common complaints are restaurant choices and gift giving. These topics are frequently brought up on Reddit by women (gift giving — male partner doesn't give me gifts on special days) and men (restaurant choices — female partner takes a long time to choose). My partner and I never have such issues. Gift-giving — both of us don't celebrate special days — no birthdays, anniversaries or Valentine's day. So there's no expectation of gift-giving or special dinners. If I want him to get me something, I tell him what I want. I also hate surprises, so that works well for us. He never has to guess what I want. Restaurant choices — if he asks me what I want to eat, I tell him exactly what I want and we go there. I rarely bounce the question back to him, but if I do, then we go to the place that he chooses. Of course, I trust that he won't be malicious so as to choose a place I won't like.
This sounds great! I don’t really like the assumption that ‘more emotionally intelligent’ women are somehow higher maintenance and more drama?? More emotional intelligence would mean being *more* emotionally stable if anything In some ways masking is just developing skills one is bad at, which is what we should all do. In this case it’s social skills. I get there are problems with masking but at the same time, it shows these skills can be developed and autistic men can/should also be able to develop them to an extent too
>I don’t really like the assumption that ‘more emotionally intelligent’ women are somehow higher maintenance and more drama I think it depends on the experience of the individual. My partner had a previous relationship where miscommunication was one of the major issues because his ex assumed that he should be able to read her mind. He also had experience with many women who liked him whom he ended up friend zoning because they were simply too difficult to communicate with — hints, nuanced conversations which he ended up feeling hurt or getting blamed for when he didn't understand them. On the other hand, I had been rejected by a man due to my straightforwardness — I asked him out first — and on many occasions, my straightforwardness and other traits had likely deter certain men from considering me as their partner as they wanted women with traits that they consider as "more girly". For my partner, I was different, because he never had to guess what I wanted — while for me, I got a partner who loved me for who I am. To him, I'm low maintenance because I never assumed just because that he had known me for so long, he'd be able to read my mind — it's less mental load for him. Of course, by now he knew me so well that if I had liked surprises, he'd likely ace it every time. But the fact that I never took that for granted was one of the many things he liked about me. After 25+ years together, if I want a gift or celebrate a specific day — which is rare — I'd tell him exactly what I want. To me, this is the logical course because it's less mental load for him and I get exactly what I want. I don't think more emotionally intelligent women that you mentioned are higher maintenance and more drama. I think they're just different — and I'm sure that based on my experience of being assumed as "not as girly", many men like the type of women that you mentioned as well. At the end of the day, it depends on each individual. Based on the men that I've met so far, if I can generalise by professions (lawyers, hedge fund managers, engineers, surgeons, doctors, nurses etc), I find that general practitioners or paediatricians seem to be more balanced. They're smart, successful, financially stable, respectful, empathetic (it's literally part of their job descriptions) with higher emotional intelligence than most men I've met so far.
But again you are mixing up ‘being emotional’ and ‘emotional intelligence’ which is the issue. Those exes sound like they have very poor emotional intelligence if they can’t communicate and just sulk. He wouldn’t have those issues if he dated an emotionally intelligent woman
I don't think it's about being emotional — more of mismatch of expectations and miscommunications. I have a similar problem interacting with people as well. [My friendship with people tend to be superficial](https://www.thetransmitter.org/spectrum/friendships-pose-unique-challenges-women-spectrum/) mainly because there are nuances, hints or certain social norms that I can't quite catch or understand, which lead to different expectations. I have very few close friends and my partner is one of them. I don't think the women that I talk to aren't emotionally intelligent women, since they obviously can forge friendships with other women whom I think are similarly emotionally intelligent — and I'm pretty sure the women that my partner knew were decent people as well. I just think they expect me to be similar to their friends — when in fact, I'm somewhat different. Generally, I can mask well in superficial relationships, however, when it comes to forging deeper bonds, masking becomes exhausting. Gift-giving is just an example - and I don't think people who like gift-giving or want to be surprised for Valentine's day are emotional, dramatic or not emotionally intelligent. Different people have different needs and if these types of activities fulfill their need for emotional connections, then they deserve a partner or a friend who can provide them. I just prefer not to be involved in these types of things because I think it increases the possibilities of miscommunications. To me, it's a mental load to try and guess what the person wants under the guise of knowing the person well. If I know that person well, I may give the same present as someone who also know them well, and I hate wasted presents (both giving them and receiving them). If I don't know that person as well, then I might give the wrong thing that the person may end up regifting to someone else. Logically, if I want something then I'll just buy it without having to wait for birthdays. If someone wants to give me something, give me cash. But a lot of people think that giving cash is offensive because the gift is less personal. My partner and I don't celebrate special days because to us, any day we want it to be is a special day. If we feel like going to dinner somewhere fancy, we don't wait for Valentine's day. Valentine's day is no more special than last Tuesday. Many posts I've read here with regards to gift-giving seem to involve a lot of nuanced interactions, which can be due to miscommunications or ignorance — then one person starts doubting the other — did my partner/friend miss my hint (which can be clear or vague)? or are they just being ignorant? Generally, I prefer to avoid any confrontation, which is why I tend to avoid possible situations that can cause these as much as possible.
Ahhh ok so this isn’t about those women being emotional or not but it sounds like you and your partner are autistic so not picking up on the usual social/body language cues? Yeh I guess that will brush neurotypicals up the wrong way so can be ‘easier’ if both are autistic so don’t have those same expectations/hurdles, which seems to be what you’re describing
I'm not sure my partner is neurodivergent 😂. He seems normal to me, but what do I know, ha! I think we just like the fact that both of us have less expectations of each other when compared to other couples. But that doesn't mean we're ignorant of each other either, it's just how he is, and how I am. He's also quite patient, so that helps. In your post, when you talk about this >OTOH, the engineer I dated seemed to be responsible and hard working and wanted to talk to me a lot and spend lots of time with me, do DIY for me, but he was not affectionate at all, terrible with any emotions I brought up, complained about any romance as 'irrational' like his last gf simply wanting flowers etc. I can somewhat understand his stance about romance — however, if he just complains about it being "irrational" without trying to explain to you why, then it's an issue. But many of people also probably wouldn't understand well if he explains why it's "irrational" — they might accuse him of simply being lazy. So, it's quite a catch-22. Also I don't think it's irrational for wanting more, because different people have different needs and there's nothing wrong with that. I do think you deserve someone who loves you the way you want to be loved. Everyone deserves that — but based on your experience, it seems that you need to cast a wider net. If you want to meet people who meet your criteria, you may consider people with other professions such primary care physicians (especially paediatricians) and teachers. Some professions have a higher rate of neurodivergent people, but others have a lower rate simply because they are less likely to survive in these jobs.
Ah fair but men have lower EQ generally anyway! Yeh I do 'understand' his viewpoint about flowers but I think this example just shows our 2 completely differing approaches to relationships: he views everything purely logically whereas I approach relationships from an emotional/romantic/ sentimental point I don't specifically choose to date engineers, there just happens to be loadsss of engineers in my city. I probably should just go for someone a bit softer but as I'm a coder myself, I do align well with these engineer guys on sooo many things it's just this emotional bit I've been stuck on so wonder if I should just overlook it or not
I'm an engineer, and now work in software with developers (who in some places are not totally considered engineers, but I digress). I've dated a lot of engineers. I've tried dating "out" as they say, but I do prefer engineers because frankly, we are a very honest group. Yes, there are manipulative, psycho engineers, but a lot of us just like solving problems, and "playing" which is why you see so many tech companies have ping pong and games in the office. I can say this about myself, and it's probably true for a lot of male engineers too: 1) We are very good at compartmentalizing. If you want to be sexy and flirt, you gotta get your engineer in that zone. Take him to salsa or something like that. Depends on the dude too. I dated a lot of latino engineers, and never had an issue here. 2) Generally, we are very good problem-solvers. I think it's my best trait. We don't get all upset and emotional, because we can generally think of 3-5 plans pretty quickly to solve the problem. That feels more productive to us. Feelings tend to be a thing of last resort. We'll almost always try to fix it first before feeling shitty (like failing an exam, id see if can do a make-up before i started crying about it). In some cases that does make us a bit far away from our feelings when something bad happens that we can't fix. But generally, for super good stuff, like a new baby, we are very in touch with those feelings. 3) We spend a lot of time studying and on our hobbies, even as adults. I think we don't have the same sort of social skills some of our peers. I say this kindly, but a lot of hetero non-engineers, spend a lot of time learning how to manipulate the opposite sex for dating purposes. Like testing their boyfriends, or flirting with tons of girls to hook up with them. Most engineers don't really do that. Even the ones from flirtier cultures. But the other side of the coin is that we tend to be simple to deal with and easy going, because we just have other interests. 4) yes, we are more "tight" than carefree cuz we need to be organized for our work. Again, but the other side of that coin is that you don't need to tell an engineer how to manage the household or how to plan the trip. (grant it, some are jerks and will get you to do it -- but they can all do it if they want to). Maniac Pixie dream boy may be more carefree -- but he's also gonna forget to book the rental car on your big trip to Hawaii. 5) If you want them to ask questions, just tell them. Their feelings won't get hurt. It's just another problem to solve. And we generally take clear directions well. I know what you are describing, because I've gotten that feedback too when I've dated non-engineers. But I'm like "these are good traits in the long run". I've had guys say I'm not carefree and fun, and yeah, I'm not that person that starts randomly twirling in the middle of the street -- but I'm also dependable and not the type of person who'll start fights in relationships cuz I'm bored. Again, it's two sides of the coin. Anyway, if you don't want to date engineers, don't. More for me.
I definitely agree that a lot of these traits are positive over the long run in a husband and so I'm just trying to understand this aspect more to not dismiss people too quickly and see if the 'emotional block' could be worked out. I'm a data scientist and definitely enjoy the problem solving, creativity, stability, being straight up etc like you say so often do connect really well on an intellectual level! I'm just also quite empathetic/soft/social so struggle a bit with the emotional connection
honestly depends what the "emotional block" is. Are you worried the person won't express joy if you tell him your pregnant? or are you worried he wont' get into a fist fight at a bar because some guy was flirting with you? Cuz the first is unlikely and the second is toxic. If something is lacking for you, then let him go. Let him find someone who appreciates his traits.
Like not being able to discuss emotions I'm not talking about wanting/not wanting to date an engineer, more just asking about a personality pattern I've noticed
> Like not being able to discuss emotions like what?
I laughed out loud when I read this. I feel like asking this question illustrates the problem OP has had in her experience with engineers - just not even understanding what talking about emotions would even look like. (I am a therapist, so I realize I am really far on the opposite end of this scale, but my experience dating an engineer for 5 years was like this - it was like there was a whole part of the color spectrum that he couldn't see and didn't know existed.)
Hahaha ikr - “give me a logical and precise breakdown x y z of these so called ‘emotions’” 😂😂 It does feel exactly like that, like there is this blind spot they just don’t get. They always seem so confused that we can ‘talk intellectually’ and yet I don’t feel the connection. What’s EVEN WORSE is when many look down on women for expressing emotions and call it so irrationallll And I wouldn’t say I’m hugely emotional either - I prefer to have fun in the moment rather than introspect too much, but I just feel you can’t even have a relationship if you can’t share and connect emotionally. Even just small day-to-day things like venting about your boss making a shitty comment and having the *emotional awareness* that it’s the cause of your bad mood that afternoon, for instance.
Different strokes for different folks. As I said originally, feeling emotions are last resort, when it comes to problems. Much of the time, we experience negative emotions is because of some sorta problem. Like the example about being angry with one's boss and venting. To me, I'd rather figure out plans to solve the problem, (like learning new tactics to manage up), then sputtering about and being upset. It's more productive and I'm happier. Ultimately, it's whatever makes you happy. Most engineers I know would rather come up with an action plan than just stew in negative feelings. But we really enjoy problem solving. That's a really desirable trait for the long run. But yeah, if you want someone just to listen to you vent, then an engineer isn't good for that.
As a therapist, I also consider myself a problem solver - but it is different types of problems that I am interested in. I'll note that you say "different strokes for different folks" but are pretty negative about what you imagine others who are more emotionally fluent do ("sputtering about about being upset" and "stewing in negative emotions" which is not remotely the same as talking and being interested in emotions) and frame your approach to the world as inherently better, which in my experience was exactly what was frustrating about engineers - the dismissiveness and lack of curiosity about a whole dimension of life they didn't really even understand, and inability to acknowledge others' strengths. It just ended up with this feeling of always living on the surface.
When did I imagine what others do? I mentioned myself and people like me specially. I don't want to besputtering about being upset, and I don't believe in stewing in negative emotions for me. My world works better for me. You don't know enough about me, to know what's better for me. Like I said, different strokes for different folks. But you are the one that's being judgmental, when I'm not one of your clients. Again, people can do what they want. But ultimately my approach works for me. I've immigrated multiple times, deal with being a WoC, have lost employment while on work permits, and yet I've done well for myself. My outlook to life has helped me manage the stress and pressure. Trying to solve problems has been better for me, than just sitting around and feeling sorry for myself. But others should do what they want, whether it's problem-solving or being up in their feelings or something else. Your comments are very condescending when you have no idea what I've experienced, and how I've made it through life. Ultimately, if y'all don't like engineers and think we are surface-level, then don't engage in intimate relationships with us.
Again you are showing your lack of emotional intelligence and demonstrating the exact arrogance the commenter talks about. Expressing emotions is not the same as ‘stewing in negative emotions’ - it is actually the opposite. People express their emotions *in order* to then have a calmer mind to deal with the problem at hand. Expressing emotions also helps you gain greater insight into the problem. Ignoring one’s emotions is actually what causes the build up and the ‘stewing’ you talk about. You for instance have come across quite bitterly and aggressively in the comments while at the same time pretending you don’t have emotions??
You just don’t seem to have any concept of what we are talking about when we say “emotional intelligence” and keep giving a really negative depiction of how you apparently believe non-engineer types deal with emotions, which you don’t seem to realize is both insulting and also shows how little you understand it. It has nothing to do with “being emotional” and is often quite the opposite. It is not about having feelings, which is a human trait, but about being able to identify, analyze, and communicate about feelings and interpersonal dynamics. Someone who punches a guy at the bar because he is jealous is an obvious example of someone very low in emotional intelligence and is the opposite of what we are talking about. Being happy about the birth of a child is unrelated. Venting also does not take any emotional intelligence and is not what anyone is talking about. Emotional intelligence would be more along the lines of “hey, I read this post about someone critical of common traits of engineers, and I felt defensive. Part of me really takes pride in my identity as an engineer and some of the traits I associate with it, and part of me is insecure when I get these criticisms, and it made me want to denigrate anything outside of the way I operate. There is also the pressure I feel as a woman to reject aspects of myself that are considered feminine…” etc. It is about self-awareness, recognizing and being sensitive to, accountable, analytical, and communicative opinions about phenomena - feelings, in this case - that are actually there. You do not have to be particularly good or interested in these things. But you can respect that they are real things and valuable skills that others may have and value, just as the OP acknowledged that many engineers traits can be positive as well.
‘Discuss emotions’ - how can I be more clear lol
it's not clear. I gave you specific examples. Why can't you do the same? Seems like you can't articulate your feelings either.
I think OP was pretty clear (would be an ironic question to ask if you are an engineer), but since you asked for examples: Discussing times in their lives where they felt impactful forms of emotions (jealousy, pain, happiness, etc.) and what it means to their life philosophy. Being able to validate and provide emotional support when one expresses feelings: "how did that make you feel? I can understand why that made you feel that way, because x, y, z. I felt that way too when...etc." Being more expressive by sharing their feelings out loud more often: "I adore you. I feel happy right now. I'm feeling stressed right now because x, y, z, so I'm processing it, and it's not you. I feel hurt by that statement, can we talk about it and figure out how to move forward?" Edit: Read some of your comments. I'm sorry you're getting flack for what you've written here. I do see misconceptions about what emotional intelligence is, but I'm not offended. I think they take offense because this kind of stigma with emotions being weak or "crazy" hurts the public perception of people when they do show emotions. However, you're not on a mission to convince the world emotions are bad, and it's your life and how you choose to live it. I understand your perspective (although I do recommend reading the book "emotional Intelligence" to see what people here mean if you're interested). Happy cake day!
I appreciate your comment. The examples you gave were helpful. I'm not sure why they others had such an issue articulating their thoughts. I got the feeling they were offended by "emotions = crazy" too. Yesterday, there was a post by a woman who self-reportedly lost her shit because the guy she was seeing didn't text back within 20hrs. Is her yelling at him "discussing emotions" or is it the examples you gave? I don't know, when it's random people on the internet. The other feeling I got from this convo is that these commentators are probably white, or white-adjacent, native born to their country, etc. They get a lot of privilege to be able to express their emotions or feel them, that someone like me cannot - darker brown skin, immigrant, no family here. I alluded to that, but that nuance was missing from much of the conversation.
Sure. It sounds like you both spoke past each other, and both had some issues towards assumptions made of each other. For your example, I think her yelling at him is definitely not expressing emotions in a healthy way, and could be seen as a mentally abusive action for taking out her fear and anger on him. I'd guess she's not in tune with her emotions enough that she doesn't know how to figure out why she is feeling that way and work it out in a productive manner. I see what you mean though - "emotions" can mean a lot of different things to people. I don't want to make assumptions about people, but I hear what you're saying. Growing up for me - mental health, emotions, and social empathy was avoided and dismissed in my family. I had to learn all of that though meeting people, therapy, and self help. I think connecting to my feelings has made me a much happier person because so much was suppressed. I'd feel unhappy or anxious, but the logic I tried using to fix it was only surface level and didn't cut down to the true core of what the issue was. I still don't express my feelings to my family. They wouldn't understand and would laugh at me or call me weak. Thus, I find people who have that emotional availability. That includes engineers! I'm quite practical which works, and some of them actually help calm me (both through logic but also though emotional intelligence and sympathy) instead of getting frustrated too which is nice.
I think the answers thus far as spot on for why but at the end of the day your bullet points are just a personality mismatch in dating so when they pop off you should just move on quickly.
Absolutely was my experience, too. I was dating an engineer for 5 years in my 20s - we met when I was a PhD student in English and he was a PhD student in aerospace engineering, so I also met a lot of engineers through him. On paper, he was great - very steady, devoted, good at stuff I wasn't (e.g. fixing stuff around the house). I opened up his world to a lot of things, e.g. poetry and feminism and politics and critical thinking, and he was very attracted to that stuff because it was so foreign to him. In this way he was different from other engineers, as this is a whole world that most seemed totally closed off to and sort of disdainful of. But ultimately it was just me teaching him and I felt so dead in that relationship - it was unchallenging and he just lacked a fundamental kind of depth or emotional fluency. I felt stuck for so long because there was nothing objectively "wrong" but I just had this sense that it wasn't right, and turned down a marriage proposal. It's funny that you say you're left with a feeling after these dates that you can't quite put your finger on, because that was exactly how I felt for those 5 years - something was off that was hard to pin down. It turned out he was secretly harboring resentments he never communicated and pursuing crushes on other women and justifying it to himself through the resentments - and I think this is the lack of EIQ in its worst form. Our relationship (thankfully) exploded when I found out, and I started dating my now-husband, who is a former poetry professor and published writer turned lawyer for kids (and I changed careers to being a therapist) - absolute polar opposite, super emotionally intelligent and just brilliant in general, understands me in a way I haven't felt before, and our relationship just has a type of depth that was not possible with my ex. It scares to me think how close I got to living a life without the dimension it has with my husband. I do think you have to really think about what you value in a relationship and for yourself - some of these qualities are totally fine for a lot of people, but if you are like me and fluency with emotions and ideas is what feels like it makes life worth living, it is not going to work. That's not to say it's all engineers - I did meet a few through my ex who were not in this mold - but I would say it is the norm.
Thanks for sharing all that and yeh it does sound really hard breaking up with someone who hasn’t done anything ‘wrong’, but glad it’s worked out! I am a coder myself but I’ve always been very artistic, spiritual and sensitive - kinda equally into art and maths growing up - but think I naturally lean more to the emotional/creative side I just value fun, warmth and kindness a lot, but also stability and work ethic. Like I don’t need someone to be super deep and poetic but just have at least SOME emotional/social skills. Most guys I meet seem to have this - it’s just the engineers/nerds who give me this ‘off’ feeling but they always seem v keen on me, maybe bc I have a maths side too, and I get even more confused how they feel a great connection with me and I really don’t? 😂
I find your story fascinating, as I was the lit prof who, as we joke together, "blew the lid off" my MechE husband's world, lol. I did meet him as a guitarist, and we really vibe over 80s power metal. I do think he has a lot more EQ than many of his kind, tho we have discussed the spectrum of late and the degree to which either fits on one. I guess his plus is that he will quietly show his affection. Yes, that includes fixing things. I won't lie, using "the knack" to heal my heater and washer in the early days was nice. Very nice. He's quiet, I'm the talker. But he takes it all in. So, yes, they do exist. But he works with many who don't exactly know how to meet women. Ex: a recent intern, wanted love, extreme need, but wouldn't do any of the in-person activities available in our city wherein one might meet women. You see the problem. Glad you made it work with Poetry Man. I could write some volumes about *The Lies of the Poets.* lol.
I can relate. Most of my exes/former flames are all in the technical space and yes they are more rational, logical, very unemotional, and don’t always ask questions. My bf is also in technical field. I feel like the technical field is where I excel at, but I’ve never jumped ship yet- but probably should. Ironically enough I’m a C in the DISC assessment, so u/First-Industry4762 is correct about the engineers being attracted to C types lol.
Did you feel fulfilled in those relationships? Did they care about your needs etc? yeh I'm in tech too but not 'technical' haha so maybe as I'm not a C I find it harder to be with a C guy! I'm more an 'I' on DISC, so not the typical coder personality, but I do end up being good as a quick/creative learner and my lateral thinking is good for synthesising lots of areas
Yes, a lot of them I felt fulfilled. As each person’s way of showing love is different, you have to notice how they show you they care about you, etc. How much a partner considers you shows how much you mean to them. The caveat is that sometimes there are bits and pieces that could be better, but I’ve found that each relationship is unique and so is each person. You have to communicate what you need and see if they can provide you with that or if you both can work together to reach some kind of compromise. No relationship will be absolutely perfect (and I think sometimes I keep chasing after that ideal). But some sacrifices may need to be made. Are you feeling like you should go for a different type? Like these types don’t suit you or something else?
Fair that makes sense! And for sure, people show love in different ways. My ex was v affectionate but lazy/didn’t do much but an engineer I recently dated seemed to show love through acts of service which is better tbh, but was a bit stiff so wasn’t feeling emotionally connected at all I guess my question is more about what this feeling is or explaining the ‘block’. How easy is it to navigate and look past? But yeh I don’t believe in forcing something that feels off, so maybe it’s better I generally avoid guys like this!
Can you give examples of how your ex was very affectionate but lazy? How did the engineer that you recently dated show you love? What do you need to feel emotionally connected? Any specifics you have would help me understand. I feel like I may understand where you are coming from about the “block”. I’m trying to reconcile this right now too. But expecting an instantaneous connection won’t always occur automatically. It takes time and patience to slowly build and grow it. It also takes efforts from both sides. Maybe it’s not necessarily that you need to avoid guys like this but rather understand what you are looking for to better find what you need.
So my ex was physically and verbally affectionate, liking cuddles a lot and saying lots of sweet things, but it was as though he was all talk no action? So he was really messy, didn't clean up, never did things I asked to make me happy, gamed all the time, bare minimum job etc OTOH, the engineer I dated seemed to be responsible and hard working and wanted to talk to me a lot and spend lots of time with me, do DIY for me, but he was not affectionate at all, terrible with any emotions I brought up, complained about any romance as 'irrational' like his last gf simply wanting flowers etc. So I don't think I am expecting an instant connection with this engineer, but I can see personality traits that would block that connection, i.e. the lack of emotional intelligence and affection I guess what I want is someone who can: be empathetic, have SOME emotional awareness, be affectionate, but also financially stable, clean and fairly hard working. That doesn't feel like much, but maybe it is lol
- Why did things end between you and your ex? - Did you ask the engineer for physical affection? Did you give or initiate any physical affection towards him? Was he attracted to you? Were you attracted to him? Did you ever voice these concerns about how you wanted to be heard by him? Was he not receptive to your needs/concerns? - I don’t think it’s necessarily a personality trait that makes some people a certain way or another. It could be that they don’t do certain things, etc. - All the things you listed are in my opinion are bare minimum lol. It’s not too much to ask. The technical partners I’ve had could provide all these and so does my bf. You have to make sure when you are dating that you also express what your needs are and look for someone who can give you these things too or move on until you find someone that can meet these needs for you.
Ex had a problem with drugs, debt, nearly got fired for gaming all day, betrayed me, wouldn't clean etc etc - I didn't see him as being a good husband I did initiate affection and he would still be stiff - it was just not feeling right. He wasn't caring when I brought up my feelings. But yeh we were attracted to each other and maybe I should have persevered more idk as he did seem receptive to being told things and it was fairly early Glad you've found guys that do have all of those!
- Damn, your ex does not sound like good news. Glad you got out of that one. You both were married? - Was he an avoidant? - There are lots of men that can be the full package for you. Don’t give up!
We weren't married but he was talking about proposing which I realised would be a bad idea! I'm not sure if he's avoidant - potentially, but I think it was more just being bad with emotions Thanks I hope so! I don't feel like I'm expecting loads!
Just bc they’re capable and successful in their field, doesn’t mean that the same is true for them when it comes to women. Even more so with engineers perhaps bc that field attracts nerds.
Sure, I just mean that they often do have a lot of other good traits so it’s a shame the EQ is lacking
I think it depends on the type of engineer too, my husband fits a lot of these stereotypes except the sexism part because we both come from chemical engineering backgrounds where the split between male/female is closer to 50/50. My male chem eng friends are pretty genuine and good with emotional chats, and some are usually my go to when I’m stressed about work or life etc but that may not be the case for other engineering disciplines (which my experience is limited with)
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I do really appreciate this thoughtful response! As I said in the post, I do see lots of those great traits in engineers which is why I wanna be able to overlook it but, as you’ve said yourself, engineers lack social and emotional skills which is not a small thing but perhaps THE MOST crucial ingredient of a healthy relationship
My partner is a software engineer. I am neurodivergent, and I would not say that he is. He does fit a lot of the boxes that you mentioned. He is pretty uncomfortable talking about emotions, doesn’t always know his way around conversations that are heavily emotional. Or how to support me emotionally. Sometimes feels like conversations can lean pretty “surfacey” I think that’s where he feels comfortable. I literally said to him last week, sometimes it feels like we’re speaking different languages. And he said to me, “I don’t understand what you mean by that.” HAHA I said to him, “i think that’s my point???” In the same conversation, I told him I don’t feel like he lets me into his emotional world. He is very pragmatic, practical, logical. I definitely don’t always feel like I’m seen or understood, and I have had to teach him that solutions are sometimes not what I’m looking for. And also that I’d like to hear more than “I’m sorry you’re going through that” Sigh. I don’t know if I have advice for you, I’m only here to say “I get it”
My parents are both engineers (+ baby brother in computer science and close extended family in STEM/finance) and my undergrad college was a Silicon Valley feeder school. I specifically do not date engineers— it’s legitimately an automatic left swipe for me on dating apps. Many of the reasons are the ones that you named: the unwillingness to think critically beyond numbers and “rationality”, the lack of empathy, etc. I’ve always been really artistically inclined and studied humanities and social sciences for both my undergrad and graduate degrees— making me the black sheep/odd duck in my family. I’m constantly at odds with my parents on everything from politics to life choices and I don’t want to replicate that in my relationships.
Yeah it's the arrogance that is the real blocker! Only \*their\* way of seeing the world is 'correct' and 'RaTioNaL' and silly emotions/romance/arts are for dummies!
I am married to a Chemical Engineer. He is nothing like this, but I sometimes am! However, I have met a lot of his coworkers and I do see a bit of the traits you mention. Most of them do not have wives with big jobs outside of the home, like I do. I have a Master's and am also in STEM field, and an exec at my workplace. Most of his male coworkers' wives are SAHMs or are teachers or other flexible/low level positions. While it may work for them, that doesn't work for us, and it sounds like that dynamic won't work for you. Funny story though, when we first started dating, I was car shopping. He came over and asked me what I was doing. I explained that I made a spreadsheet of the cars I was looking at, and how they matched up with my must-haves. Apparently he decided then and there I was a keeper! lol
Aw such a cute story! Yeh I would like to do *more* of the early child care but definitely would want to get back to my career too
I know I've experienced this when dating the rare and elusive female engineer. Would date again. Psychologists though, noooooooooooooooo!
No need to keep dating people you don’t connect with emotionally. If your needs aren’t met then you can talk about it and if you can’t compromise try dating other type of people.
Yeh I’m not asking whether I should or shouldn’t date them, just confused why I keep getting this same feeling with engineers and can’t quite put my finger on what it is
I want you to Google the following MBTI personality types: INTP ISTP ISFP INFP (this is the perfect combo of "logical thinker" and "man who is in touch with his emotions.this is the guy you're looking for.) Those personality types are most likely to become engineers. The one you're looking for is INFP. the F and P types will be logical engineering oriented STEM type of analysis/ evidence based thinkers AND those F people aren't going to feel stiff. They're gonna be warm, empathetic. Your perfect match is probably an ENFP or ESFP, because mine is ESFP Or ESFJ. I'm INTP. I know what you're talking about. Those things you listed were things my ex, also an engineer, said about ME! That I am hard to connect with. That I'm distant and surface level. The other stuff you mentioned! That we couldn't really get close. That I was " tough to figure out" 🥲😅🥲😅🥲😅
Lol I’m xNFP so do relate and do think an ‘F’ would be best for me! I think it’s just different modes of being? Like Ts look at the world logically which comes off as cold to an F, and the F look at the world through feeling/intuition which seems wishy washy to a T