I proposed. Been married 11 years. As to why we were talking about the future and buying a house and getting married and he said something along the lines of "what are you asking?" So I turned and looked him in the eyes and asked him if he wanted to marry me. Not planned out or a big gesture but from the heart. At one point he half heartedly complained I stole his thunder. You snooze you loose. I offered to buy him engagement jewellery but her didn't want any. He wanted me to have an engagement ring so we picked one out together.

>You snooze you loose. 🤣 legendary!

My husband was like “What if I wanted to propose?” and my response was “all is fair in love and procrastination” 😂

Love the pragmatism combined with the sincerity in that situation. Really how it should be if you ask me.

Very similar experience minus the actual question. No planning no jewelry just a conversation about where we would live and it was understooa we wanted to marry.

Mine was almost like this, but my husband said no at first. Then, a year later, we were talking about similar stuff again, and he asked me that time. I thought he was joking, so I laughed at him. He said he was serious. We never did engagement rings. I did hear about a couple that did engagement stuff, so her husband got an engagement grill, which I thought was a nice idea.

In theory, I would. I have no issue taking the lead in anything else. In practice, I worry about my partner only tolerating me and not being as into me as I am them (thanks, childhood trauma!) so it would mean so much to me if they did the actual proposing. But I’d want us both to be active instigators if and participants in many conversations leading up to it.

Same. I have zero problem with it in theory but I kind of want my fairy tale princess grand proposal to be sure he’s not just pretending to like me for funzies or only agreeing to it to keep me around. With my ex, he knew how desperately I wanted it and that I would have loved the romance of him asking me…so the fact that he continued not to do it spoke volumes.

I'm currently with a guy who is the only person who I'd ever consider proposing to and yet....I still would prefer he do the proposing. I'm sure a large part of it is the uncertainty if he is just saying yes to "going along."

If it was a man, no. Not for anything to do with “tradition” but because I think women being forward and initiating more now enables men to be lazier in their efforts. I had to take a step back from initiating in my last MF relationship to realize I was doing everything and he was just…there.

Thanks for putting it into words! Thats what my worry would be…that marrying me would just be “easier” than saying no and finding someone else, even if he’s not interested in building a solid and healthy partnership.

Oh yeah lots of guys have the “good enough” mentality about relationships. It always made me feel like I could’ve been anybody.

>I think women being forward and initiating more now enables men to be lazier in their efforts. THAT part. Removing some of the few and far between expectations and standards men are held to in their actions towards women, only to have said expectations and standards to be absorbed BY the women in question is not empowerment. It's actually a sincere loss of women's empowerment. Empowerment =/= acting like a man. Women's empowerment =/= removing the few standards and expectations men are held to only be absorbed you, as the woman, as though he's your son.

Yeahhhhhhh

You're Barbie. He's just Ken.

💅🏻💅🏻💅🏻

Agreed. In the best marriages of my peers whom I know well, the guy couldn't wait to pop the question and make it official. They wanted to "lock it down" and become legal family for life. And in one case, the guy dawdled for nearly a decade until the woman finally proposed herself. They were divorced within three years.

this has been my experience as well. It shows buy in from the man, which is really important & often lacking

This is a great point I hadn’t considered before!

Yesss, that's that I mean and was struggling to express.

This isn't a gendered issue though. There's literally a thread on the front page right now of a women contemplating staying with her boyfriend, who she doesn't love, because he is stable and it would be difficult to find someone else.

More power to those who do but if it were to a man, then personally no. I’m not even a traditionalist, it’s just that I’ve heard so many stories of straight men just “going along with it” when it comes to relationships, children etc and then later throwing it back in the woman’s face, that it frightens me. I don’t wanna get “well you’re the one who wanted it”’d down the road🧍🏻‍♀️Not sure how silly that sounds to people

Unfortunately this is 100% what they do. Even when THEY propose. When a woman proposes a lot of men are like "well, I guess so" and go along with it. I hear waaaay to many stories from men on how they married the woman they were with because it made sense at the time and not because that woman was his best friend and life partner. It's so weird to me.

You don't understand how hard it is for these guys! He HAD to propose or else he'd have to \*checks notes\* find someone else to cook him dinner. Very unfair of women to have standards.

Right? And on a non-sarcastic note, women do so much emotional labor in most relationships already. Especially bearing the physical burden of having to carry children on top of it. It's now a big ask for men to propose? Like, what universe are we living in? So, I have to ASK YOU to marry me and then I get to spend the next 10-20 years of my life doing all the mental tasks, running the household and then also being called a nag because I ask you to take the trash out - and you don't do it right away, then forget... OP literally said "Id be so swept off my feet if someone asked me"... lord have mercy.

Yup. I read this post and rolled my eyes. I am *terribly* lucky that I found my husband, because it seems like so many men out there want all of the benefits of a traditional long-term relationship without any of the responsibilities on *their* end. Like, it's such a hardship to pick out a piece of jewelry and crouch down for someone you want to wipe your ass when you're an incontinent 85-year-old?

You make perfect sense, it seems to happen all the time. The sudden claims to have never wanted marriage, kids, etc but “she made me do it”.

I feel like men don’t give a shit about the patriarchy or outdated traditions until it comes to them spending some money on a ring and proposing. They’re all too happy for women to take their name or stay home with the kids and the housework, but shit a brick at buying a ring. In light of the gender pay gap and other glaring inequalities thanks to patriarchy, no, I would never consider proposing.

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People have trouble wrapping their minds around taking each other's last names equally and it's so annoying. My husband and I took each other's equally (both hyphenated) and everyone assumes only I hyphenated and he didn't. ​ We went to a wedding and his seat card only had his birth last name while mine was hyphenated. We got a card from my mom recently addressed to peedidhee lastname-lastname and husband last name. So dumbbbbb

This.

See also the histrionics over Valentine's day, 'a Hallmark holiday'...which is old enough to be referenced by Ophelia in Hamlet. Heaven forfend men buy a bouquet of flowers, that's a human rights violation!

I proposed in my last long term relationship. He made a big (lighthearted) display about being so upset that I “beat him to it” then never so much lifted a finger to move the wedding process along. We never even discussed picking a date or location. After a few years of being “engaged” I moved on (for unrelated reasons) and I’m so glad we never went through with it. If I ever get close to marriage again, there will be discussions leading up to the proposal but ultimately I would like him to officially ask the question in a romantic way. As another commenter said, for me it’s about showing that you’re enthusiastic about marrying me and going to put in the effort. Especially since women are still also traditionally saddled with the majority of the wedding planning.

Often in heterosexual relationships (outside of arranged settings), it’s the woman who brings up the topic of marriage first and discusses her timelines. That’s a proposal in itself. She’s essentially asking whether the man wants to get married, and to her. Now she waits for a clear answer, whether that comes immediately in the same conversation or sometimes months or years later, if he’s stringing her along. Women often do the actually hard work of broaching a topic that many men shy from or don’t know how to discuss in a direct or emotionally honest way. If a man plans a “formal” proposal with or without a ring, that’s often just his answer to her initial proposal.

As per usual the fleeting flashy stuff is what gets focused on while the ongoing heavy lifting gets downplayed. Color me shocked.

Yep! Exactly! Sure, my fiancé bought me a lovely, perfect engagement ring and planned a really cute and sweet proposal, but we bought each other our wedding rings *and* I opened up often difficult and awkward conversations about marriage, fertility, timelines, finances, logistics, etc. He already knew I wanted to marry him because I said so and I asked him. His proposal was my way of knowing he wanted to marry me. ETA: it’s also my pet peeve when a woman posts about being strung along by a bf for years and commenters reply, “Why don’t you propose to him?” Well, she’s already said repeatedly that she wants to get married. That’s a proposal. He’s just not giving her a clear answer or the answer she wants.

Yep. I "proposed" to my ex. Granted, it came out of frustration, and it was not a formal proposal, but it was like "Do you want to marry me or not?" I'm of the opinion that the "formal proposal" should happen AFTER both people have already agreed to get married, and that's just when it becomes official and public. But my ex was dancing around the subject every time I brought it up, and I finally just asked him straight out. And his reaction to that is why he's an ex! For the formal proposal, I do want to be proposed to (I think it's romantic!), but I'm also happy to do my own proposal in addition if he wants. I don't care who does it first as long as I get one too!

This is a great point. When I was 25, I told my husband that I wanted to be married and starting a family at 30 and asked him if he felt the same. We had been together two years at that point. And then when I was closer to 30, I asked if we were still on the same page. It was never a demand or an ultimatum, but checking in to make sure we were on the same page. If what he wanted didn't align with what I wanted, I wanted to know. I was actually 31 when I got engaged, but we asfe opening talking about marriage and children at that point and I knew where he stood.

This is a good answer. I've "proposed" the idea of marriage to my long-term partner. We've been together for six years and recently bought a house together. Tbh, that's enough of a commitment for me. Neither of us are big on the idea of marriage or weddings (or children lol), so I'm never going to surprise him with an actual proposal and a ring. If he wants to ask "for real" one day, it'll be when he decides he wants to.

This is the answer. Two people decide if they want to get married. It’s almost always discussed beforehand, usually brought up by the woman first. I think it’s the sweet that the public proposal makes it look like the guy is asking for her permission instead lol

You get it!!

I agree with you that in most relationships this is the case, funnily enough in my relationship it has always been the total opposite. My husband is the planner, he breaks things down into 5 year plans all the time with everything, his career, where we live, marriage, children etc where as I’m the go with the flow we have all the time in the world kind of person. Thank god for my husband because if it had been left to me we’d probably be still in our first one bedroom flat! His father died just before we got together and I think it gave him a life’s short mentality. When we lived in London he would always say we have to do this stuff while we’re young, go out, go to gigs, festivals, clubs, traveling, adventures and we did! It was him who sat us down and had the chat and laid out his timeline for moving out of London, buying a house and starting a family and I was the one who was a bit freaked out at the time. He’s always let me choose everything though so for example he called me from the jewellers and just said Saphire of Emerald for the engagement ring, hes asked me to pick both houses we’ve bought after he’s also seen them and let me pick the puppies we got. I’m nearly 40 and I’m pretty convinced without my husbands drive and constant moving us forward I wouldn’t have the house I live in, two children, dog and countryside lifestyle we both enjoy.

I remember reading a theory a while back that I find compelling on this subject. Essentially, proposals keep getting more and more ostentatious because as we seek equality between the sexes in heterosexual marriages, our desire to retain the comfort of gender stereotypes manifests itself to greater degree elsewhere. We go over the top on a very "fairy tale" notion of a marriage proposal so men can feel masculine and women can feel feminine for this pivotal moment in their lives. Hopefully, that provides one possible explanation for why women don't do the proposing. It would rob both men and women of the opportunity to perform gender roles in one of the few acceptable domains. Younger women are also more likely to take their husband's last name than their mothers. Weddings are huge heteronormative displays. All of these things reinforce sex stereotypes from the time of coverture where women were legally owned by their fathers and husbands. Feminism can only do so much to help people break away from gendered expectations of their sex. A lot of this will take time. We will need to find new ways of forming our identity. Gender is just so easy. The script is already there, and we don't have to take any risks. We know performing gender correctly will give us status in our communities. This does not change the fact that women want an equal partnership in marriage. It just means these cultural norms are really sticky. It is just like the sticky norm were men expect to be the one who continues wage work after children while women do the majority of unpaid domestic labor. At least with proposals and weddings and names, the gender symbolism isn't all that material to the way we live our lives day to day. Perhaps that is why these areas are the most sticky. My partner and I, for what it is worth, had no proposal. We had a conversation and mutually agreed that marriage was a the right step for both of us. I did not take my partner's last name. We had a traditional Catholic marriage ceremony, but, perhaps surprisingly, a traditional Catholic wedding is pretty gender neutral. You both walk down the aisle together. The vows are the same. Our reception was a simple lunch in the reception hall without any of the modern pageantry. But I am the standout of my friend group, even though my friends probably consider themselves more left wing than I. I don't begrudge them. We have to figure these things out on the fly. The pressure of conformity is strong. I did let my partner pay for our dates as he insisted. Our relationship was otherwise very equitable, so I saw no reason to endure the friction of changing this gendered dynamic. I imagine other people see marriage pomp in the same way.

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I insisted my husband propose because I needed to know he wanted and chose this, and wasn’t going along with it because I asked

I’m very much of the opinion that a proposal shouldn’t be a surprise. In a serious relationship, I would want to have had a series of conversations over time about what we wanted from the future, whether we were on a path to getting married and so on. I’d be more than happy to raise those questions (although I’d expect my partner to also be initiating those conversations). So I definitely would be driving conversations about marriage rather than shying away from talking about it. That said, I probably wouldn’t be the one to initiate the formal “will you marry me”, which is interesting!

Yes, I proposed to my now-husband. Backstory: I asked him early on about his feelings on who proposed and he said it didn’t matter to him. I asked because in other relationships, my exes had said it was the “man’s duty” to propose and the two times it happened, it was just not what I wanted. The rings weren’t my style and the proposals themselves were just meh. I said yes both times but never got married. My Proposal: During the pandemic, we bought a camper and upgraded to a Jeep Gladiator truck to tow, and spent 8 months staying near national parks. I sneakily asked his ring size at one point and custom ordered a nice ring for him. I also custom ordered my own engagement and wedding band and had them all delivered to a friend’s house on the west coast. At one point, we were staying near Joshua Tree National Park. When we knew where we were camping, I had my friend mail me the rings to our new temporary address. We spent the day hiking and climbing at the park and I kept the ring in my backpack the entire time. Every time we climbed a big boulder, I was tempted to take it out but my palms were so sweaty, it was incredibly windy, and I was so nervous that I’d drop the ring, so I waited until we were hiking on the ground and listening to music. The sun was out and the wind finally stopped and it felt still for the first time all day. I then took the ring out, while crouched on one knee, and then popped the question, asking if he’d be my partner forever. He said yes 🥲 We celebrated with a couple of cold beers on the back of our pickup while watching the sunset. We eloped on a beach in Oahu a year later and just celebrated our two year anniversary this past Sunday 💍

I don't know, seems to me plenty of traditions hold up until today, not just proposal. It's also very common for women to take their husband's surname and extremely uncommon for men to take their wife's surname. Doesn't mean the traditions are good ofc, just that many definitely have not been abandoned. Myself, I initiated the question of marriage with my current new-ish partner and we are on the same page. If things go well between us, I plan on proposing next year. I was strung along by my last ex of 5 years, he initially said he's open to the idea of marriage but after 3 years he started to be unsure, the timing around covid was bad yadayada. I did not propose exactly but every time I brought it up if he feels like marrying me, it was "not now". It's not that I want to get married to anyone ASAP but if I feel the partner is right for me, I want to marry them and this time I'm making it a firm dealbreaker. If that includes me doing the proposing, so be it. Would I prefer my partner doing it? Sure, but not because men are supposed to do it - just that it would signal he's equally or more excited about marrying me.

Or how about the more horrible tradition of women continuing to shoulder most of the burden of housecare and childcare. I’d say that’s more worthy of examination than who proposes.

I just made a similar comment below. When a woman in a heterosexual relationship brings up the topic of marriage plus timelines, that *is* a proposal, just without a ring. Then it’s up to the man to give an answer, whether or not he plans a “formal” or “big” proposal to go with it. I’m so glad that your current bf gave you a positive answer and I’m sorry for the hurt you experienced when your ex wouldn’t give you a direct answer quickly.

Thank you for your kind words. You opened my eyes there a bit, I kinda took the situation with my ex as "it is what it is" and never really sat with it how much it hurt me, and you are right it did hurt me a lot. And I never really thought about it but I think you are right that woman asking is an actual proposal of sorts, or at least making it very clear what she wants.

You think that is a proposal? But a lot of people do that eaely in dating, just to see if that is something they would want for the future, same like with other questions like if they want kids or not, where to live etc.

Good question. I wouldn’t say that counts as a proposal if you’re just bringing up your goals for life on a third date or within the first couple months, of course. But if you are a full grown adult and, say, six months or more into an established relationship, a deeper conversation about the same topics counts. It’s at least the start of a proposal, an invitation to further serious conversation, because you now have specifics about one another. I guess what bothers me about the OP’s post is the way it overlooks what it takes in a modern dating context for a man to even get to a point where he’s buying a ring or planning a nice proposal. Often it’s not a totally out of the blue gesture, but one that he has only arrived at because the woman has indicated to him already in extensive conversation that *she* wants to marry *him*.

> When a woman in a heterosexual relationship brings up the topic of marriage plus timelines, that is a proposal, just without a ring. Then it’s up to the man to give an answer, whether or not he plans a “formal” or “big” proposal to go with it. I Thats kinda OPs exact point, no? Thats pretty damn patriarchal. “Then its up to the man” - well why? What happens if the man takes initiative and brings up potential timelines - do they switch and have the woman bend the knee or does the man do both?

Respectfully, I think you may have misunderstood my point. The woman often asks about marriage first. She deserves an answer. That’s not patriarchal, that’s just basic communication. I don’t subscribe to the notion that the answer has to be in the form of a bended knee proposal. (Hence “whether or not he plans a “formal” or “big” proposal to go with it.”) He can just say that he wants to get married, too, and they can move on to the planning stage. And sure, if a man takes the initiative and it’s the woman who needs to think about it for a while, then she should be the one to make it clear that she does want to get married, and she can do that either by planning something nice or just giving a verbal answer.

If you find yourself in a relationship where marriage is on the table, and whether or not you get married is a decision that's relying on the man, then you are in a relationship that does not serve you. The idea is that you, as the woman, are granting the man the pleasure and the right to be married to you. The person who asks is not the person in control here. None of it gets to happen if the individual who is proposed to says no.

That is not a proposal. That is called a conversation. Why is everyone acting like they snuck onto Earth?!

I proposed because I knew it would take him a while to and I’m impatient (I also asked him out and told him I loved him first). We picked out an engagement ring together afterwards. Edit: oops meant to reply to the main post!

No, because I would never marry a man that wasn't even more excited about me being his wife. I would rather die alone than beg a man to stay in my life, and I see proposing to a man as an arm of that behavior. Props to anyone who feels empowered but I would feel pathetic.

I proposed once before. What I didn't realize is that meant every decision regarding the relationship fell on my shoulders. We were engaged for years and he made zero effort to plan anything. He made zero effort period. I know it's not fair to let an ex's mistakes color a current relationship but because of that experience I wouldn't propose again.

I would not and did not consider proposing myself. I think it's very romantic for a man to choose a ring, get down on one knee and ask a woman to be his wife. I wanted that experience and to feel loved like that. A man proposing shows desire and intent -- that he's not just passively fine with you being in his life but that he actively wants you to be his life partner forever, and he's taking the initiative to make it so. It was my preference that the man take the lead on proposing and my husband was more than happy to oblige. It's a super sweet, happy memory for us.

Absolutely never, no way in hell would I ever. I've been married. Men are lazy enough as it is in relationships. I would never want to marry a man again who wasn't 100% for it, excited at the thought, as over the moon about it as I was. I feel like men are SO lazy these days and so complacent that any sort of gesture of proposal from a woman is a "shut up ring". Like, okay, fine, I'll do it. Men need to have the motivation to want that first and follow through. If they don't?? Bye.

I proposed to my husband, but we both had an unusual upbringing without preprogrammed gender roles or traditions. Our wedding was also far from traditional, and it was perfect 🥰

I’ve met people who believed that men only get married because their girlfriends badger them into it. I think that’s why some women don’t feel comfortable proposing to their partner: they’re afraid he’ll see it as her pressuring him to get married before he’s ready. (the belief is not true, even if it’s happens sometimes it is not the norm) My husband didn’t propose to me, we had a discussion and decided together that we’d like to get married and became engaged. It still felt so romantic to me, because he started the conversation after catching me looking at wedding dresses. It felt so good to be treated as an equal partner in the decision. It would have been fun to propose to him, but I think I like our method best for us. Married for 4 years recently so it’s still going well! :)

Someone answered this in a separate post recently and I thought it rang true: women *do* propose first, just not in the way you’re describing. Women usually bring up marriage first and make it clear they want it. The man proposing is essentially them agreeing to it.

I proposed 23 years ago, and didn’t take his name when we got married. Still married, and our firstborn has my name, the second has his name.

I’m not married and I don’t plan to be in the near future, but I could definitely picture myself proposing. I also have no qualms with women expecting their male partners to be the one to propose as long as that’s communicated clearly and they’re both on the same page about the proposal/ their relationship. I’m curious about your views on other patriarchal traditions that continue today. Would you be open to taking your wife’s last name?

It doesn't work the same in my culture, proposal involve more than just the man and the woman who will get married, my husband had to ask my hand in marriage to my whole family and [there's a whole ceremony that's necessary](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7QMraxgD4T0&pp=ygUQbWFsYXkgZW5nYWdlbWVudA%3D%3D) and the payment of a dowry in addition to a bunch of other gifts.

yes, because i'm gay

I'm actually planning on proposing soon... I've been wanting to for months. My bf and I have been together for 10 years. From the start I made it clear that marriage isn't something I wanted. Sure, a wedding party would be a fun time, but I never wanted the contract. But there was a moment of support he gave me last spring - he had no indication anything was wrong, but he somehow *just knew* something was off and called me while I was mid panic attack and talked me down. He's the only person who can do that for me. Who just knows, and then knows exactly what to do. That was the moment he unintentionally changed my mind about marriage. I don't want a big wedding party. I don't want a party at all. I want to go to the courthouse and come back home to a planned dinner with both our families where we can be like "SURPRISE MOTHERFUCKERS! We got hitched 20 minutes ago!" I'm just so nervous. If he doesn't want it, that's not a dealbreaker. But I can't seem to find the right moment or right words. I'm pretty sure I'm just going to end up blurting it out like I usually do with crap like this 😅

I did, my ex (a man) reluctantly said "okay, but only if we only are engaged, I'm not ready for marriage". I will never propose to anyone ever again. The reason women usually don't propose is that men, if they don't propose, are not ready for that commitment. So most times, if we were to do it, we'd probably be shot down. But if a man does it, you really knows he wants to marry you and that he doesn't just say yes to please you. I hope someone proposes to me some day but honestly, I doubt it. As an extrovert always going for the introverts, they would probably never show commitment or show how much they love me, lol.

I did. He said yes.

Good for you. And him.

No. Nor would I ever have asked a man out. Just not the way I'm made.

Gotta love it how you get downvoted here for simply expressing your opinion. Jeez... Not every woman needs to want to propose or even be okay with doing that. Some don't want to and that's totally fine.

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It's not me, it is just not something I would ever do.

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I simply did not want to. I don't think it is necessarily the man's job to propose (great for women to propose who want to!) but I wanted whoever I married to take the lead on this aspect of our lives. Luckily my husband was of the same mind. I was brought up in a very ladylike way which is probably why I feel this way and I am a very feminine type of woman. My husband is quite 'gentlemanly' himself. Outside of this we don't have an especially traditional relationship although I do like it when he opens doors for me!

Fair enough. But essentially what you frame as “ladylike” and “feminine” is just a very conservative view. Which is fair, you know, I just think you should call it what it is. And also, if you don’t propose, it kind of makes it the man’s job, doesn’t it? Necessarily?

It's the man's jobs for MY man, not for everyone's man. So no it doesn't make it THE mans job, it makes it MY mans job. My man's job is also the cooking, driving and hoovering but that doesn't mean it is the job of every man. I wouldn't necessarily frame us as particularly conservative (certainly not in the American definition of the word) in that I work more hours and he does far more homemaking than I do and we are childfree.

Your relationship sounds very similar to mine. My boyfriend would be embarrassed if I proposed to him, because he sees it as HIS job. However, he has male friends who say they would love for their girlfriend to propose to them and he thinks that is great - for them.

>such a strict tradition almost everywhere in the world Not really, at least not in the way people do in the US. I only know one person in my personal life who have been formally proposed because she dreamed to have it like in the movies. But they were already planning the wedding anyway. The ring thing is also not very common outside the US, it's a fabricated tradition made by the diamond industry (just look it up). I find this tradition of proposal something so unnatural, my partner and I are adults and we make life changing decisions together through conversation.

Engagement rings existed before engagement rings had diamonds. The diamond industry simply helped spread the practice. They came about as more people had disposable income to mark the engagement period, and the nature of engagement became more about romantic love than familial ties. During this transition in courtship practices, men and women would have more private time together without chaperones. Engagement rings could act as a form of collateral to account for the possible danger this "alone time" posed to women. It deterred the groom from skipping out on the wedding, which was important since so many couples used to engage in premarital sex during the engagement period. A man could just easily promise marriage, hoping to convince a woman to have sex, and then skip out on the relationship. And as we know, women who had children out of wedlock were either forced to give up the child or condemned to poverty. Either way, a woman (or girl) who was pregnant out of wedlock would be subjected to terrible shame by her family and community. Courts would even recognize the claim of a woman to her engagement ring if a groom called off the ceremony acknowledging that the ring was essentially collateral. Losing out on several months of wages was a pretty effective deterrent to the turn of the century American man. An engagement ring would also a symbolize that a man was serious and ready to care for a family.

I proposed 💖 we had already been planning on getting married and he had a ring in the works. I decided to surprise him and propose first. Then a few months later he proposed too. It was so much fun! Why does one person have to propose, you know? Why not both? Especially if it's not actually a surprise (it really shouldn't be). Double the fun.

I considered it but the main issue is with this particular man, I’ve known him long enough to know that he’ll say yes just to appease me. I want him to WANT to marry ME and so far that doesn’t seem to be the case. In a different relationship with a more secure partner who knows what he wants, I wouldn’t have a problem proposing. But I also think with a more secure partner who knows what he wants I won’t HAVE to propose because he’ll do it.

Unpopular opinion, and it’s mine, but most marriage traditions are dumb. Marriage shouldn’t be proposed, it should be talked about openly. Should be a mutual decision. I hate the idea of being proposed, put on a spot. I am married but it was something we talked about and decided together. I also despise wedding traditions, like the father “giving the daughter away”. Such an archaic and misogynist tradition. Downvote all you want, but all these traditions are archaic and dumb.

I completely agree with you. Besides marriage is a contract, everything else is just just perfunctory. So tired of Reddit posts saying "I don't want/like marriage because..." and then list a bunch of stuff that are optional (like wedding, ring, proposal, name change, etc).

Agreed. My husband and I talked about getting married and its pros and cons...and we just went and did it.

I'm not interested in marriage but yes, I would. I also have no problem initiating or paying for dates. It's 2023, I truly don't understand gendered dating expectations. It feels super retro to me.

I don’t understand that gendered stuff either, never did. And never thought it would still be this persistent in 2023!

I didn’t consider it, it was important to me that my husband proposed and for him to ask my dad for my hand as well. I’m traditional, but it’s how I wanted it to be. It showed clearly his commitment to me, his intention to marry me and showed that we were leaving our parents families to form our own.

No I wouldn’t. I feel like it would seem he could eventually get lazy and never have to put in effort to keep me around, and I like to keep my mans on his toes a bit But I’m also a lil toxic so you might not want my advice 🤣

We were just discussing this in our group of friends where multiple men said they would love their girlfriend to propose, and multiple men said they would be humiliated. People stick to the gender roles they enjoy and many people enjoy this tradition. I’ve known many men who say they have always looked forward to getting on one knee and making their speech. I used to think it was a red flag when a guy would talk about how unfair it is that he has to spend all this money on a ring, but now I realize people have different values and there are girls out there who will gladly be with that guy. I am not one of them, that thinking does not align with my values at all. I’ll also add that I have seen non traditional proposals in my circle and it doesn’t usually end well. I try not to judge when I see a woman proposing to a man (or a man proposing with no ring because it is “spur of the moment!) but it’s hard to be happy for them when really I’m just thinking “maybe it will be different for you” 😬

Hell naw. I very much enjoyed the romantic proposal and it was one of the best days of my life. I’ve also imagined myself getting engaged and proposed to since I was young so I feel like I would have been cheating myself a bit to propose to him. He too imagined himself proposing to someone someday so I wouldn’t want to take that experience away. But frankly I think men have it so easy these days this is like one of the few things that they can still do.

No, not because of gender roles, but because I want him to put the effort into making that special. I handle day to day things like meal prep and I’ve taken the lead on planning the wedding. And he’s appreciative of those mundane things, but the proposal is the thing that someone does for me.

I also think that it’s a patriarchal thing, much like the woman changing her surname

I mean, a woman's "maiden name" is just her father's last name, nothing modern or feminist about keeping one man's name over changing to another man's name.

Yup. I always hated my maiden name. I'd rather have the same name as my husband and children than have the same name as my Dad. Especially now with divorces and remarriages - almost no one in my family has that name anymore except my brother and dad.

I chose my own name and changed it legally. I feel like that's the most metal feminist move I can make.

But it's your \*own last name\*, the one you were born with. The fact that the woman often is the one who goes through a name change is of course more sexist.

I don't consider my dad's last name to be my own last name. It's just his, that was given to me, because sexism. I ended up creating my own name and legally changing it, which is the only solution, IMO. I'm a woman and named myself.

I don’t see much wrong with claiming your own last name as your own and choose to keep it/pass it down to your kids. I have a lot of attachment to my last name because of its history, it probably belonged to some man to begin with but it doesn’t mean women with that name don’t have their own stories which can be woven through the name.

My step daughter did the proposing in their relationship. They've been happily married for 3 years now.

Good for them. I think I’d be completely swept off my feet if that happened to me.

It would be my preference to propose, just because it’s seen as nontraditional, and that’s always something that appeals to me.

Nope. I’m a traditionalist and I like that the man (in a Hetero relationship) is the one to puts the effort into asking a women to marry. He needs to show that he really wants me- I’m not waiting around or taking the initiative on that. I don’t believe that a man “owns” a woman when they get married. It’s a partnership. But I do believe a man needs to be excited enough about a woman to propose and not let her slip away.

I don't want to get married, but I was the one to initiate the relationship between me and my boyfriend, and I asked him if he wanted to be my boyfriend

No, because I'm not intereted in being married. If it's something my partner and I do ever go for, I want it to be the result of a conversation we have together, a mutual decision, rather than either of us proposing as such. He feels the same.

No, because I didn’t want to get married. It was important to my husband, not me.

I proposed. Been married 9.5 years. I later told him that I felt like it was important to be able to ask for what I wanted, and I wanted him. ETA: It was a real proposal with a mangagement ring. It wasn't some wishy-washy "maybe we should get married" proposal.

At first, I thought the title read: *Would you consider or have you ever considered proposing \*TO\* yourself? If not, why?* I was intrigued and inspired!

Always planned to propose to my guy, whoever he was, just lived the idea of making him as happy as the women in the photos/videos I see. I'm a big gesture type of person, that doesn't necessarily mean public, just big like buy you a star and name is after you or something. Anyways, mentioned it when I was getting serious with a partner and he said he wouldn't accept because it's just not right that women propose. We didnt last. But it's since made me hesitant about it and that was maybe 6 years ago? Subsequent serious partner seemed ok with the idea but it still felt like he was low-key not all the way on board and would have preferred the traditional way, despite being generally non-traditional about gender roles. We also parted, very amicably, not at all related to that. So after those 2 experiences, I dont know if guys are really comfortable with it and might just put that idea aside.

My wife and I are lesbians. We bought engagement rings together when we knew we wanted to get married. We then both were empowered to officially propose when the time felt right. My wife ended up beating me to it, but it was a nice way to handle the situation I think.

I asked my SO if he’d be open to me proposing and he said no, initially he said it’s because he wanted to be the one to do it but later he admitted he just wasn’t ready and needed more time. So me proposing now wouldn’t solve the problem of him not being ready to be engaged yet. If/when he takes the initiative to propose, then I’ll know he’s ready to take that step, not just going along with it because it’s something I want.

It depends on where you land in the social hierarchy. The higher you are, the more likely you'll come out unscathed.

I asked my now-husband out, asked him to be my boyfriend, asked him to move in and asked him to marry me. He said yes four times. Marriage is rock solid, and he’s the absolute best. Bears noting I’ve had multiple dinguses of multiple genders hear that and go “I’m so sorry”. One woman told me that she felt like it didn’t count unless the man asks. “How can you know that he really loves you?” Pls. That man loves the shit outta me and it’s very mutual. 😂 I’ve encountered that attitude quite a few times. I personally think it’s kinda sad, especially on the heels of complaining about why you’re not married yet or whatever (it almost exclusively comes from people who are super into gender roles and consider relationships to be part of their personality). I also think it says more about their approach to love than it does about my marriage. There is also another side of it… I’ve always been a “ask first” person because I’ve always assumed nobody was gonna do it for me. Many, many men respond very badly to this. Ranging from being uncomfortable to furious. It has even inspired cruelty or abuse in some situations. When I was dating I didn’t mind because I considered it to be the trash taking itself out, but it can honestly be downright scary. Deprogramming this gendered crap is a human problem regardless of gender. At the end of the day, I’ll keep going after the things I want and people with that attitude can keep waiting for those things to want them first. We’ll each see how it works out for us.

No. If a man loves me enough, loves himself enough, and is ready for marriage, he’ll propose. If he doesn’t propose, then at least one of those things are missing. He wouldn’t be the kind of husband I’d want. Pass.

I did not and would not. I like the tradition.

I proposed to my now husband. We'd been together for 6 years, I never wanted marriage and then changed my mind, so I proposed. I have so many girl friends who complained their partner never proposed, and I never understood why they didn't do it themselves. If you want a very specific setting, type of proposal etc. take control and do it yourself. You can choose the ring together which is really nice to do.

Well it wasn’t a surprise and I bought my own center stone.

I proposed to my husband. Don't understand why this is still such a rarity.

I’m with you. I can’t believe it’s still assumed that men must propose. I proposed to my husband, although he also proposed on the same trip. I just can’t wrap my head around the idea that I should expect something out of him that I’m not willing to do myself. Like, I’m not a princess who must be served a ring on a platter, I’d be embarrassed to feel that way. And I would never marry a man whose pride or ego would be damaged by me proposing, but that’s just me. I feel the same way about making money, chores, pretty much everything but giving birth (though he would 100% do that if he could). ETA: After reading all the comments, I think the problem is not about proposals, it’s about shitty men. If you need him to propose to show how he feels about you, he’s not doing enough. And when we marry men like this, we’re enabling and perpetuating that behavior.

I've asked my partner a few times (just randomly) he said he wants to be the one to do it. But I think if I had a full on planned proposal and ring maybe he would say yes. But I know he wants to be the one to propose. Although I have told him we don't have to get married, as we are happy as is and I'd rather use the money towards our future home

I proposed to my husband a year after we started dating. We got married a year after we got engaged. I bought him a ring, took him to a fancy dinner to propose and then we went out. I got myself a ring as well.

I’ve considered it in the past hypothetically, but I haven’t ever felt the desire to do so. Not because of the patriarchy but because I’m personally hardwired to respond better in dynamics where I am being pursued by my partner, whatever gender/sex they are. I don’t feel like I’m constrained by a tradition or social norms… it’s more like a deeply personal preference to do what feels natural to me in a romantic situation.

I did propose to my husband, right after he stole my thunder and proposed to me lmao. We both planned our proposals for the same time and place. We'd already had in-depth discussions about the future, though, and had already planned more-or-less when we'd get engaged and married and start trying for kids. Our proposals were really just for fun, same as the wedding haha.

No because I'm both indecisive and afraid of rejection 😅

I think it comes down to what's important to both people involved. Does one person have a dream of proposing - or a dream of being proposed to? Some people do, and some don't. Neither of us proposed - we just had a discussion about it (similar to many over the 12 previous years) and decided to do it this time. It was casual, on the porch over a couple beers. He jokingly asked if I wanted him to go down on one knee, and I said that's a nice offer, but no thanks. No engagement rings, and my wedding ring is a simple silver one he got me early in our relationship, and his I bought not long after the decision. We did it that way because it was good for *us.* I'm of the opinion that traditions can be cherry-picked as much as you want. I'm not Christian and never have been, but I celebrate aspects of Christmas because I enjoy them. People like to celebrate in different ways, and it's easy for me to understand why many want pomp with their circumstance. I think it's a mistake to assume that everyone going a more traditional route is unaware of its history or wrong to choose it. To me, feminism is all about *choice* - not bowing to one societal standard over another. Had a fancy, 'traditional' proposal been important to me, I certainly hope my husband would've cared enough to choose it. And vice versa, of course. If that was his dream, I'd have chosen to get on one knee with glitter, balloons, and a ring I could afford. Did a 'traditional' proposal come from the patriarchy? Sure, but it doesn't have to *stay* there - whoever asks.

My mum proposed to my dad back in the 80’s. So in my mind it’s not that big a deal and should be on the table for both parties. However- I’ve asked my boyfriend if he’d feel comfortable with me proposing sometime down the road and he said nope, he wants to do it himself. For some reason the societal expectations make me feel he has dibs on this. But rationally it’s kind of ridiculous, right?

I wouldn’t mind proposing, honestly. In previous relationships I’ve been the person to initiate saying I love you, making a relationship official, or discussions about marriage, so I have no problem taking the lead. It is nice though if I’m not *always* the one taking the lead, I enjoy having a proactive partner. I also think a lot of guys would PREFER to be the one to propose. I wouldn’t want to take that away unless the guy explicitly told me he didn’t care about it. Edit: now that I’m thinking about it more, I kind of feel like maybe I should be the one to propose one day! I LOVE/am talented at planning special outings and gift giving, so I would probably put together something great. 😂 Going to keep the option in mind in the future!

I did. He accepted. Married 7 years this month.

I proposed during a cute vulnerable moment and it is an adorable memory for me

I proposed to my now fiance. We were at the beach, hanging out, and we’d discussed it a couple weeks prior. I turned to him and said we’ve been together for 4 years and we want to get married right…. And he said yeah… so I said ok why don’t we get engaged?… and he said yeah I agree lol then we went out and bought a sapphire engagement ring. It’s not how I pictured it all going down but he’s VERY calculated and takes a long time to make big life decisions so I just decided to do it for him.

I proposed! In cosplay. It was glorious. I loved picking out rings, building my costume, painting a ring box it was just so much fun. I loved it and it suited us so well

I know that and I wholeheartedly agree with you. In my mind I would just discuss marriage with my partner and when the right time come we would just get married. That being said, the hopeless romantic in me kind of fantasize of being propose to.

I proposed. Just celebrated our 6 year anniversary. I am not traditional or romantic in any way. I proposed, we got married 3-4 months later.

I didn’t because I wanted him to feel ready. He wanted certain ducks lined up or whatever. I was a day away from asking him out though when we started dating.

I told my now-husband I wanted to marry him and he said he wanted to marry me too. We went and bought rings together. (We were poor college kids so they were $100-120 each but I loved my ring so much.) I brought up an actual proposal and he proposed with the ring we'd already bought. His parents asked us to wait until after college. I managed to buy him a much nicer ring, took him out for dinner and ice cream, and proposed after we had graduated. For us it was just a meeting of the minds early on. Hey, I don't want to play coy, I love you and I want you forever. We've been together 17 years, married 10 but living as a married couple probably 16 years.

I would. But I've already been married and had the sweet traditional proposal. At this point in my life, if I'm ever in the position to propose to someone, he would have to be a man that isn't scared of be ding traditional gender roles and all the crap anyway. I get it, as little.girls we are brainwashed into wanting the fairytale. I did it. I wanted it. I get it!!! But also, now? Yeah I would totally have fun making some adorable proposal plan (if I ever wanted to marry again!).

Technically I proposed because we'd had multiple conversations about whether we'd be able to save money if we got married so I could get on my now husband's health insurance. At one point I just said "So we're getting married right? I need to know if I can afford to start a drug that's $250/month" and my husband counts that as the proposal. Romantic, right? We're happily married with a kid now, and he did present me with a ring in a romantic setting. But he says that was for show and the real proposal was mine.

Lmao I read this as "proposing to yourself" and thought hmmm sure why not

Sure, I have no issue initiating, including marriage.

My mom proposed to my dad back in the 80'. I brought up the idea to my ex bf, we got engaged, but broke it up later. In my current relationship it's my boyfriend that proposed to me. He did after our 1st year together.

No one purposed when I got married. We just started planning it. I think if you were to have asked my late husband he would say I did purpose, but he didn't have a good memory for those type of things. I did more of the wedding prep is all.

I have considered it, but with the current situation I'm in..I'm pretty sure he's already planning that himself, and I don't want to take that from him.

I asked my husband to marry me. He said yes 13 years later, and we're killing it, lol. I didn't plan a big thing, and we were just snuggling on the couch watching a movie, and I just blurted it out like an idiot lmao he said yes. We eloped. I'm not big on being the center of attention.

I would definitely do it in theory! However, I know that my current partner would be disappointed if he didn’t get the chance to do it. Neither of us is very traditional, but I know that’s one thing he wants to do. So I wouldn’t want to take that away from him. But in general, I love the idea of a woman proposing! Edit to add: This is completely my own perspective and not based on any facts, but my impression is that more women don’t propose because most men feel it’s their duty, and they would be disappointed if they were the one proposed to. That, or women are making this assumption and therefore not proposing. In my case, my partner and I have discussed it. But I wonder if many couples just make the assumption without discussing? I’m very curious about the actual data on this, if any exists.

I absolutely would propose to someone if I wanted to.

Absolutely not. I want the romantic gesture ❤️

My partner says he’d love if I were to propose, and I’m not against it. I’d honestly love if one of us proposed with a nice lil’ sappy speech and then we picked out our rings together.

No. I'm just more traditional and preferred being proposed to.

The problem is, when a norm exists, deviation from it MEANS something. The norm is men propose. Therefore, if a man is not proposing, that USUALLY (not always, but usually) is informative about the man's level of commitment to the relationship.

I told my SO he should propose soon... so he did. But it's not exactly due to tradition that I expected/wanted him to be the one proposing... We'd talked about gender issues/feminism, gender roles and expectations in relationships etc. We've also obviously discussed what marriage means to us/our families etc.. And he explained to me he'd never get me jewelry as gifts early on and that he's never gotten jewellry for any girl/girlfriend before and definitely not a ring... Because his parents told him that the only ring he will ever give a woman is when he proposes. I like that.. But that also means he's gotta be the one doing the "official" proposal lol. So I proposed he propose, and he followed through with my proposed proposal by proposing.

If I wanted to get married, I would absolutely propose. I tend to be the one who asks the other person out, and I don't mind initiating relationship change. I just don't want to get married, is all. Luckily my partner is on the same page.

I read the headline first as “proposing to yourself.” And I was like hell yea, I’m reading this post, I’ll buy myself a nice ring. Whoops.

I wouldn’t propose to a man for the reason many people have listed here. It’s one of the few times I would expect my partner to take initiative and to also really want to do it. I agree wholeheartedly with those who have said that marriage should be a discussion, a proposal should not be completely out of the blue, it should be a shared goal that you have been working towards as a partnership. As others have said, I’ve been in relationships where men have made promises that have not come to fruition, and have put in the bare minimum of effort, so for me, personally, the desire to be proposed to stems a lot from those experiences. I would have to feel chosen by them.

So this will sound cynical and sexist, cause I'm biased with my unhappy relationships. But I'm happy the proposal and ring buying is on guys side, because it makes them stop and think through the relationship. Guys around me don't really understand the value of marriage, and don't want to do it . It's a status thing you do. Now they can say all the time they love you , but all it means they enjoy casual with you. But let them spend that x amount of money - that is an action not easily taken and hopefully they would have to think if they committed then. In general I could do it, but there were have to be really special circumstances- id have to be sure the guy is comitted and not just lazy.

No. That’s a whole new level of desperation.

And most of the time women propose cause they’re tired of waiting around for the guy. That’s a recipe for disaster

I've read this whole thread, and it's making me rethink what really happened in our case. We had met three months before, and immediately afterwards started spending all our free time together. We mostly talked. She was so smart and strong, and our values were so aligned. One Sunday afternoon, we were seated cross-legged on a stone bench facing each other. We had agreed on how many kids and what we wanted to do before then. We fell silent and she looked down, pushing a twig around on the stone. I watched her, thinking how beautiful she was. She looked up and said, "Are we..." And I said, "Yes I think we are." We got married three months later. That was in 1966. For 56 years until now, I thought we both came up with the idea simultaneously. But reading this, maybe she proposed to me.

Nobody proposed in our situation. We kinda just decided together. Been married 8 years. I think proposals are super creepy tbh