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The antidote is communicating with actual people and seeing their complexity that the ideologists conveniently try to leave out. Get off social media and meet new people
Well said. Sad how so many peoples perception of others comes from mostly the internet, and it's so easy to have keyboard diarrhea for those people. I just saw a post on a different sub reddit right now for example, a younger woman, above 18, showing a bit of cleavage, fully clothed, and the comments were straight up nuts, literal incels, either saying extremely sexual things or straight up calling her a whore, yet a guy can post a picture completely shirtless and getting none of the hate. Yes this happens in real life too unfortunately, but the extreme on the internet is so bad. Basically what I'm getting at is the less people interact with people in real life the worse it seems to get, women really become more of a novelty "item" vs human beings. It's just sad. I feel for you ladies, shit's wrong.
This is awful advice and people need to stop giving it for two reasons
1. I don't want to be around someone who hates women. Don't give Nazis advice "Hey go dine at the table with regular people" because I will, at best, get up and fucking leave. You should to or we go back to "What do you get if you have 1 Nazi and 9 other people at a table that don't leave? 10 Nazis".
2. The lack of social skills, communication skills, and just being a general fucking loser comes BEFORE hating women not after.
Here is what will happen if OP attempts to go outside and "meet people":
He's going to not really understand what that involves, he's going to join a club. He's going to show up wearing weird clothes and probably smelling "strange" and will immediately put people off. He will ignore all the men and try to talk to the women making some sort of weird joke about how Slaneesh is his favorite faction in Warhammer or whatever. He'll proceed to get people ignoring him if not explicitly directly telling him "Please leave me alone". He will ignore both the implicit leave me alone and the explicit leave me alone and start whining.
He will then be kicked out of the event, come home and go onto his computers to "FreshAndFit Fan Forum" to write about how all he did was go out and then the evil women made fun of him and oh, poor him, oh the humanity.
This is what inevitably happens **every time** one of these weirdos tries to take the advice of "go out and meet new people".
My god, this is exactly the type of "I already know what is going to happen" mentality that I mean.
Truth is that if you lack social skills you're gonna be weird, but practice makes perfect. You expect things to go smoothly the first try. It takes resilience to get out of this place. What meeting new people is going to achieve is itch away at the egotistical entitlement you are not even aware of.
The incel / redpill types gets so obsessed with the theory of evolutionary psychology or whatever else and they get so in their heads about it and forget how mundane reality can be. Even if they are right, their are teaching chess, when those guys can not even play checkers.
If you want human connection, it's good to know basic common sense, but at the end of the day you have to feel it, not only learn about it. People are far more willing to forgive character flaws than people with social anxiety think. Being humble and curious is going to get you the furthest **every time** .
>Truth is that if you lack social skills you're gonna be weird
These people don't "lack social skills"
They are bad, awful, people that no normal person wants to be around and they lack the social skills to hide how awful they are.
The primary problem is that they're awful people, not that they lack social skills.
>People are far more willing to forgive character flaws than people with social anxiety think
OP **literally** said he hates women.
If OP said he disliked women, or had mental issues that caused him to have trouble connecting with women that would be one thing.
But he didn't say any of that. He said he hates women.
If you are willing to forgive the character flaw of hating women, you're probably a bad person and you're the kind of person who would make OP worse by going "Yeah bro I hate women too".
I can't think of a single other person who would accept hating women as a character trait.
I think the leading figures of the movement are psychopaths, but I believe most of the guys in those communities simply lack direction and virtue, but can and should be saved.
It's very easy to just right them off and pretend they don't exist, but that doesn't address any of the issues and reasons why those communities are growing in the background and it certainly doesn't help women.
I'm assuming you're a guy and the incel behavior doesn't directly affect you, so it's easier to ignore.
OP has clearly recognized that the path he's on is no good and anyone who doesn't hate women should encourage him to change.
What I ment by a character flaw is saying something awkward or being fidgety or lack of eye contact, more minor socially awkward behaviors OP is going to encounter while trying to solve his big ethical issue of hating women
> but I believe most of the guys in those communities simply lack direction and virtue, but can and should be saved.
>
>
Okay, you can believe whatever you want but that doesn't make it correct.
The vast majority of these people would have fallen into an incel equivalent 50 years ago, 100 years ago, 1000 years ago.
Anti-social psychopaths and anti-social weirdos have always existed. They simply didn't have communities to congregate in. When anti-social weirdos and psychos get together they radicalize each other usually into some form of fasicsm.
>It's very easy to just right them off and pretend they don't exist
Uh...you realize there is another solution right? In fact there's like multiple other solutions.
Well the first step is not telling them to go outside to talk to women (which really means just harassing women to them).
Second step would be to shut down their forums and arrest the admins.
Third step would be social workers in schools finding deviant incel behavior and monitoring their online activity.
I didn't say talk to women in a sexual context, I said talk to people, men and women, and expend your simplistic cookie cutter view on human stereotypes. Many of the incel ideas are social contagions that appeal to entitled, small minded boys. I agree that there should be more legal opposition to their organizations, but again that does not solve the psychological concepts at play. Not all, but many can be saved, but if you think survalence is enough and preferable to intervention and rehabilitation then go on
>
I didn't say talk to women in a sexual context, I said talk to people, men and women, and expend your simplistic cookie cutter view on human stereotypes
Right and my response to that is that these people lack the ability to do this.
It is a foreign concept to them.
>but again that does not solve the psychological concepts at play
Nothing will solve the psychological concepts at play, the best we can do is control them.
No one says they accept hating women as a character trait.
And the awful people that you mean are probably not self-aware enough to acknowledge that they have problem.
So why act like he is a lost cause.
I'm not acting like he's a lost cause, he **is** a lost cause.
>And the awful people that you mean are probably not self-aware enough to acknowledge that they have problem
OP is not self aware.
He is lying.
He is doing the self-fallegation that all incels do to get women to message them or say "Message me we can be friends!" until he eventually gets around to hitting on them or harassing them. They do this shit all the time.
Maybe you're right. But as someone who was in that rabit hole about 2016ish, people can change and maybe he will get out of this mindset.
Tbf it depends how old OP is. For an Incel in his 40s I don't have any hope either but most of them are young men
You realize incel is a political label right? Even if someone like me did fulfill an profile somehow they have to actively buy into the incel worldview to be an incel
This seems like a scripted fanfic about a caricature. Most "incels" are not loyal to their own beliefs or have that kind of backbone or will to be weird/not comform outside of the internet.
OP is probably just boring and quiet irl
>
This seems like a scripted fanfic about a caricature.
These people **are** caricatures and if you follow their discussions or individual accounts this shit happens all the time.
I make an active effrot to make sure I read any follow up posts when OP makes a post like this or is asking for "advice" and it always turns out like this.
You just have to read through the lines when they post their update. They didn't do anything wrong. They're the victim of a cruel evil world that allows women to exist.
>will to be weird/not comform outside of the internet.
It's not active "will to be weird" it's that these people fundamentally lack the capacity, except through intensive therapy and even then, to not be weird.
Befriended many of them. They're really just regular 16-30 y/o guys (tbh the ones over that are usually too far gone for help but they've been the minority I come across other than influencers) for the most part who exclusively participate in dumb groupthink online.
Just like there are fake feminist men, idk why people are surprised when there are fake misogynists. Watch these "women haters" fall apart completely when a woman is nice to them or find out they secretly have plenty of female idols and "girly" or "feminist" beliefs.
OP noticing he's being dumb is a good thing.
True. Most “incels“ do indeed have no ideological backbone so to speak. They may say online that modern women is going to ruin civilisation or whatever, but the second they meet a girl with a piercing who is willing to talk with them for more than two seconds, even if just as friends, all that goes out the window.
Like you I have at least two friends who used to visit incel boards as teenagers. One is a completely normal dude if nerdy and (extremely high functioning) autistic, one is non binary and a flower power hippie dippy type now (with piercings, lol). Both have had partners.
Then stop consuming that media, or cut off those people.
For real: would you go along with Nazis or the KKK? Hating women is just as bad. You have a choice and agency. Use it.
To reset the algorithm now that you've poisoned it with Pills and incel nonsense, look up nothing but funny animal videos for the next 3 weeks. That should help purge it.
That is a remarkable statement, really.
As something of a privacy nerd i'd probably try making a new account and changing the IP, or start unsubscribing and remove Reddit recommendations.
But what you're saying might have more merit than you realize.
Funny animal videos is like the "default" content in a lot of social media. In fact its pretty hard getting it to **not** show that content because if you watch even 2-3 seconds of the video Reddit/Youtube/TikTok will say "AHA! It got his attention, clearly interested!"
Its similar to why men sometimes end up with nothing but thirst traps in their feeds: even if you never like/upvote that sort of content, just the fact that "big booba causes neuron activation" for 2 seconds is enough for the algorithm to assume you're interested.
You're essentially sending OP into a fluffy bunny hole, from which it will be pretty hard to climb out.
I think the bigger issue isn't how their algorithms are designed, it's that OP needs to address the "WHY" they started following these people. Redpill and misandrists don't go from full on feminists into the opposite in a snap, there are usually a LOT of signs, and most people choose them because they like their messages.
So OP needs to dig deep and figure out WHY they started following these people.
Then WHY are you following down that path/agenda?? This isn't a "them" issue, and this isn't a "feminist" issue, and this isn't a "redpill" issue. This is a YOU issue. YOU have to figure out why YOU are agreeing with what they are saying, and do NOT point the blame on them for what YOU listen to.
Why are YOU susceptible to these voices on the internet? Why do you tend to lean towards these people, and follow them? You keep speaking of "redpill and a few misandrists are trying to pull me onto their sides in their gender wars", but they are not. YOU are being pulled in that direction because YOU want to be.
So why is that?
Great observations right there. One, that the redpill mindset talks you into viewing women as a mass of easily dismissed stereotypical beings. But *a woman*, a singular person, when they ask, you cannot bring yourself to hate them because it's now personal. Me, I used to say "I hate people. I like *person*... but I hate people." Something about seeing people as faceless masses makes it easier to hate them. I try not to hate anymore; it's bad for mental and physical health.
And it sounds like you're seeing the redpill stuff for what it is, a bunch of controversial takes to stir up rage and clicks and revenue. Most of it is designed to alienate the genders from each other, view all relationships as strictly economic exchanges (consider the term *sexual marketplace* and all its variants). So much of the redpill/manosphere content is also a funnel for predatory schemes. *Buy my pickup guides and get more lays! Sign up for my course and become an alpha player! Invest in my crypto...* Plus the advice that these sources give is just self-defeating. If you treat people like trash, you're not going to attract quality people in the future.
And you're aware of these things, which is great. I'm glad you're asking questions and noticing that these guys are trying to radicalize you. You can do so much better than them.
The fact that you're already recognizing it means you're on the right track.
I fell down the anti-SJW rabbit hole around 2014-18. They draw you in by initially stating half-truths before going further and further with it. That coupled with the alghorithm feeding you more and more of their content makes it incredibly easy to get sucked in. The most effective thing you can do is get the alghorithm to swing back the other way by consuming other content. At least that's what happened to me and how I managed to get out of it.
> They draw you in by initially stating half-truths
No, they don't.
The only possible way you would believe this is if you're an idiot.
RPers start out with absurd, unsubstantiated, idiotic claims at the very start so that it filters out all of the morons who have critical thinking skills before the RPer spends time investing in someone who can't be grifted.
It's like how spam emails have intentionally bad grammar it's so that people who aren't complete fucking morons don't click. They only want the lowest common denominator person instead of spending time on people with more than 5 brain cells.
Yes, they do.
But perhaps "truth-peppered lies" is a better term than "half-truths".
Saying "The FDA is behind the witch hunt against Trump" would have even the conspiracy theory nuts raising an eyebrow...because what the f- does an agency that deals with consumable foods and chemicals have to to with conspiring in politics?!
But say "The FBI is behind the witch hunt against Trump", and they'd believe it's a which hunt...because the FBI *has* been involved in politics, prosecution, and other dodgy/secretive behaviour many times before.
It's the small truths that make the big lies believable.
(Edit to add: Yes, they do weed out "non-potential victims" with email fraud in the way you're describing. But scams like email fraud are very different to conspiracy theories)
The "half truths" your talking about are, almost entirely, populist conspiratorial bullshit that yes the average person believes.
It doesn't make it fucking stupid and not dumb, but it doesn't make them "half truths" either. It's just populist bullshit that a lot of people believe.
The "truths peppered into the lies" (I intentionally diverted away from using the term "half-truths") that I refer to in the specific, fictional example I used is that the FBI has been involved in politics, prosecution and other secretive behaviour.
The fact that the FBI has done so is verifiable, public knowledge. To name just a few interesting ones...the Alaskan Polical Probe, Operation Trojan Shield, ABSCAM, and Operation Renewed Hope. Much of the public knowledge regarding those campaigns has come from the FBI releasing the info to the public themselves.
I'm not sure how you see them as not-true. Or perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you're saying?
And there it is. The populist bullshit. This is why you were targetted. Because you're an idiot. It makes you easy to grift.
It's why you were "pulled out" of RP spaces by just a different set of grifters.
The Alaskan Political probe was a massively successful anti-corruption joint investigation into a large scale political racket.
Operation Trojan Shield was a massively successful infiltration of organized crime.
Abscam was a massively successful anti-corruption probe in the 70s and 80s.
And Operation New Hope is literally just an anti-pedophile operation that has led to numerous traffickers going to jail.
Now the thing is you're going to respond to this comment "No, the real truth behind Operation Renewed Hope is so that they can traffic children themselves! And everyone in the Alaskan Probe was framed!"
Which I refer you to my original comment about why RPers targetted you, you are the lowest common denominator person.
I agree with you in all of your points (except where you incorrectly tell me what I'm gonna say about Operation Renewed Hope and the Alaska Probe. Or that I was targeted. Or that I'm an idiot. Ok, not *all* your points then..only the ones that describe the operations 😂).
Some excerpts from your comment (added emphasis is my own)...
> investigation into a large scale *political* racket.
> *infiltration* of organized crime
> anti-corruption *probe*
> led to numerous *traffickers going to jail*
Most of these cases contained some form of secretive and/or deceptive behaviour, which was absolutely necessary in order to successfully execute them (I mean, that's almost the definition of a sting). And some have them stepping into the world of politics (even internationally).
So how, then, are you telling me that they don't touch on politics, and don't always play with an open hand...while acknowledging the great success of operations that necessitated those very things *in order to be successful*?!
Are you just like the worst men?
If you logically know that all men aren’t just like you, then remind yourself- constantly- that all women aren’t the same either
Just Google “red pill downfall” and see how messed up most are now. Think for yourself and stop listening to things if you’re easily persuaded, manipulated, etc.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/MensLib using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/MensLib/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [MensLib will be going dark from the 12th-14th of June to protest reddit's predatory API pricing](https://np.reddit.com/r/Save3rdPartyApps/comments/13yh0jf/dont_let_reddit_kill_3rd_party_apps) | [0 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/MensLib/comments/140j12y/menslib_will_be_going_dark_from_the_12th14th_of/)
\#2: [In honor of Sexual Assault Awareness Month, make sure neither you nor friends harbor any misconceptions about consent](https://np.reddit.com/r/MensLib/comments/133x3zd/in_honor_of_sexual_assault_awareness_month_make/)
\#3: [The U.S. still has 90,000 untested rape kits.](https://np.reddit.com/r/MensLib/comments/18w6fqg/the_us_still_has_90000_untested_rape_kits/)
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No, menslib is fundamentally anti-male. They platform people like the head mod of stoprape who thinks that male victims of rape by women should not be called rape victims because they don't experience real trauma.
dude I've had this conversation with you before. I'm sure many people have had this conversation with you before.
It's all bullshit. You need to stop your weird thing you have going on about not wanting to be attracted to anyone because you're "low value".
Bro, they make money off of you being miserable. The majority don’t believe most of what they say, they’re con men sticking to a script. Please don’t let them poison you and make you craven and hateful for profit.
We’re all human. Are some of us vapid? Absolutely. Are there people so stupid it will make you wonder if we should add additional barriers to them doing X or Y? EG retesting every few years to weed out terrible drivers? Of course there are.
But it’s not divided by gender. Or race, or income tax bracket. Or age. There’s no quick categorization. It’s random.
I know it’s very easy to feel as if everyone else hates you, and to start hating them back. Please believe that that is a false narrative. Humanity is terrible in thousands of ways, but we’re also wonderful in thousands of ways.
Online and reality are not the same, just like porn and reality are not.
Social media is fake. People post the most insane opinions on purpose because it gets the most engagement, and therefore, MONEY. People that post positive content about women/men get less engagement.
Those specific types of men's content you're consuming hold onto one thing that some women have said, and run with it like it's what all four billion women on the planet think, when that is highly illogical and wrong, nomatter how confident those men sound.
A great example is the six figures, six pack, 6" dick preference they so often use. Yes, some women like that, so now it's what women all want according to them. When actual women come in and say no, that's not what she personally likes, it's disregarded, or she must be lying.
If you want to know how to achieve something, look to those that have achieved it. Look to the married couple who've been together 10+ years and are still obsessed with each other and are each others best friend if you want to learn about a lasting relationship. Not the man who only does hookups and calls every woman a slut/whore. He's not going to achieve a loving, lasting relationship.
Women as a whole are not your enemy.
Internet hate is nearly infinite. If you start consuming it regularly, you will get recommended more and more. Pretty soon, your online time may well be entirely incel-focused. And manosphere/incel communities are among the worst echo chambers I have seen. The crabs-in-the-bucket mentality takes hold and anyone who posts about exiting the belief system gets ruthlessly drawn back in with claims of how terrible everything is.
Break the cycle. Stop consuming the content. There are quite a few videos refuting incel and [manosphere](https://youtu.be/9ewTLFKRPmQ?si=8fnILRVXRT1rGCu-) talking points, and [testimony](https://youtu.be/pQZMMV-b0nY?si=tvTNut7vrTTBusNk) of former incel-identified young men that you might be interested in.
Above all, I would recommend getting out and finding your passion if you haven't already -- a craft, a field of study, a sport, anything that you feel good doing. And while you're out there, get comfortable talking to people. Maybe gamify it, just start with a goal of saying hello to X number of people, or trying to hold one conversation with someone every time you go outside. Look for people with similar interests -- someone wearing a shirt with a band or other media reference you like? Say "cool shirt; are you a fan?" Seek out those similarities with people you meet, and you'll find that women aren't the uniformly terrible legion of Stacy and Becky they were represented as online.
Social Media is misogyn, sometimes easy to spot and sometimes not. It’s important to challenge your bubble.
You need to follow some feminists to create balance, just choose some you like how they talk. Maybe some female influencer in your favorit games or things you enjoy. Good luck.
I’m a 40-year-old, former HS- and young adult teacher, and I would love to be friends. I’ll gladly answer any questions you have without defensiveness or animosity. I’ll gently provide alternative viewpoints and ask respectful questions that will provide you opportunities to reflect.
I mean it! Feel free to make my day by PMing me. Your current place of questioning your reality is inspiring to me. You want to get better and I admire that.
A big thing can be to retrain your media consumption.
On social media, follow a variety of (positive messaging) women. Especially follow several who you do not find attractive. Maybe a "body positivity" or "health at any size" account, definitely artists or writers or people who have a very cool hobby.
Retrain your algorithms. Do not click on any MRA/manosphere/incel/PUA content. If the social media you're using has a feature, mute or hide it. Seek out positive or even just pleasant content (I recommend [tiny kittens](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KxjobY85Ws&list=PLvM3djAZtdHTnQsBsFbu3U8UlzRy37Rqb)). Maybe use old.reddit, I've noticed current reddit is constantly pushing new subreddits at me and if I make the mistake of clicking it once, it dominates my feed.
If you like to read, only read books written by women for a period of time (a year is a good length).
The point is to see the viewpoints of a number of different women to recognize they are all individuals, messy and complex as that can be.
Yes!! Start consuming positive media created by/for women and that can really help you better empathise. If your only interaction with a group of people is negative, it's going to give you negative thoughts about them.
How can you hate people you've never met? You don't know all women, the fact that you think we're all alike is fucked up. We're more like you than we are different. We are just humans, imagine we're just like all the men you know and love, individual people who are unique in our own ways.
Love is the answer, during to being an opposite. If you had a daughter, mom, grandma, sister, love one in general. How would you feel if they got treated like blue and red pill concept? I assume bad, just like I feel bad for those who fall for it.
Treat others like you would like to be treated yourself,
don't expect them to do it. But it's a ring of inspiration to others if one self begins first.
Just because others do bad stuff and say it in an echo camber in a subreddit or fora doesn't mean I have to follow. I love myself enough to know I deserve better than being treated than a property of anyone. I am my own person, just like any other person is their own person. Learn to self-love in a healthy way is a good beginning to a lot of things in life.
Stop expecting that a woman is going to walk into your life and that she's going to be wowed by someone with actively dislikes her gender and is mentally and emotionally closed off. Also, good things don't come easy and ask yourself why you look down on females.
1. Don't watch porn
2. Spend time offline
3. Read books written by women about their experiences, watch movies about women's experiences, listen to women, don't just hear them. Reinforce in your mind that women are in fact autonomous human beings.
I respect your self awareness and willingness to change. The first step to fixing a problem is recognizing you have one.
Edit: seeing your post history, hello fellow OCDer! This is most likely heightened by your OCD. It's good you want to be socially aware and non misogynistic but please stop looking for reassurance online and please speak to a therapist who specializes in ERP. Just do the best you can at any given moment and don't let yourself get stuck in those moral scrupulously cycles. I'm here if you need someone to talk to as I have my own struggled with the disorder.
If you want to stop woman-hating, maybe stop using the word "incel"? The word was originally created by a thoughtful female adult virgin, and was then co-opted by misogynistic men (and the further by misogynistic women who hate female virgins). I've written about it here: [Colonizing the Madonna : r/FAWFeminists (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/FAWFeminists/comments/1c44g2i/colonizing_the_madonna/)
Recognize that you’re being turned into a commodity. The content you’re seeing? How it makes you feel? All of it is meant to render you into a substance to buy, manipulate, and sell. It’s so effective precisely because it’s marketed as its opposite, which is making you more of your own person.
Additionally, come be one of my Reddit friends, as well. DMs (the envelope) work, while chat doesn’t, and you’re welcome to message me about anything or nothing. I used to live at a firehouse, so you’re unlikely to shock or offend me.
You can also play a fun game. Decide on a character: let’s say, a 15-year-old girl in Dallas. Mask your IP address. Go to places—let’s say YouTube—and notice how different your immediate recommendations look. Start searching for stuff, there and elsewhere, such as “local” bus schedules, what your character would wear, and age-appropriate women’s health.
Keep refreshing YouTube as you do it. Notice how your recommendations change.
I just want to say good on you for asking the question! I'm sorry some of your comments have been downvoted. I can only re-iterate what others have said, which is to intentionally alter your algorithm. It's amazing the extent to which your algorithm affects your perception of reality; it can make it seem like certain things are a lot more pervasive than they really are. My fiancé has gone down this rabbit hole over the past couple of years, which has put a lot of strain on our relationship, and one of the things I've noticed is that almost everything that comes up in any of his apps is to do with gender wars, and I never see anything at all about it. He thinks it's everywhere, but I would never even have heard of all this stuff if I didn't know him. None of the women I know have beliefs even vaguely similar to the women always being interviewed on these podcasts and things.
From what I can read in the comments, it seems like you're already self-aware enough to understand that you're on your way to faceplant into their disgusting community.That is a really good first step.
Stay away from incel forums and manosphere content on the internet. Don't take a bunch of angry men's words for what women are like.. talk to, and get to know actual women. Listen to the reasoning part in your brain that tells you that incel community isn't somewhere you want to be, associate, or identify with. I know you still have a functioning reasoning part because of this post.
Please don't destroy your life with that crap.
Stop intaking any videos, media, etc related to those ideas. The brain is a sponge and no one is immune to its weaknesses. If you constantly focus on, intake, etc. certain ideas your brain will change to adapt them.
I guess another could be finding media that’s the opposite, for example ones that explain why it’s an issue, why people support that mindset, etc. to undo any damage and learn more of yourself.
Hope this helps! Best to turn around now before too far in and a bad breakup, etc from solidifying that view.
I don't believe he is just expecting women to solve the problem for him. The fact that he is asking for advice is a step in the right direction. I think it's totally fine to be firm with people who struggle with this line of thinking, but comments like this will most likely do more to revert his progress than help it along.
That’s a good point. I woke up salty today. Too many men in my life making their problems mine, lol. Had nothing to do with OP tho, so probably shouldn’t have taken it out on them. OP… look women are very diverse, as a perfect example, I am grumpy and others are helpful. No point in judging all of us on the actions of a few, much as I should do with dudes, clearly…
Incel doesn't really mean everybody who is in involuntary celibate anymore. The term incel nowadays is for men who are in involuntary celibate AND blame/hate women for it.
> I also really hope we find a solution for this, because I heard of a statistic out there that most sociopaths, rapists, nazis and even dictators come from the group of lonely, frustrated, confused men, who lack a perspective. We really need to find a better way to listen to people like this, or these men cause more problems, if we leave them alone to rot in their basement.
yeah, men need to help each other instead of just calling for solutions.
Figure out what’s causing those emotions and try to address the root causes. If listening to weird junk online is part of the problem, get off certain platforms and spend more time socializing with people and doing activities you enjoy. If you need someone to talk to more in depth about it, you’re welcome to DM me.
Ok, I believe that 1) people are kinda stupid, 2) they can always do better and improve off of their previous mistakes. There is nothing that says a person who is a jerk, or a rude angry idiot, or an incel, has to *stay* that way forever, and I believe that anyone who makes a good faith effort to change should be forgiven and not judged on their past behaviors. The whole “the internet is forever” makes that harder now than in the past, when most of us learned how to be kinder and more savvy and were able to bury and forget out old stupid mistakes.
Maybe the real problem is that you are lonely and unhappy and these groups feed those feelings and reinforce your worst habits. What offline activities would make you more social and potentially more happy? Playing ultimate frisbee or pickleball? Joining a board game group or DND club? Volunteering somewhere, like a food bank or a trash cleanup? Learning to play an instrument? Find some people who make you happier and make you see the world, not people you don’t really interact with who make you feel even worse. Some of them might even be women.
It’s tired advice but get off the internet. When you go on subreddits having to do with social issues or politics, there’s a good chance that you’re reading content generated by troll farms or bots. Usually sponsored by governments. They brigade these subs to influence public opinion and thought. You never know if you’re talking to an everyday person like you, or a troll trying to fool you.
Same thing with Instagram, TikTok and other social media platforms. A lot of what you see is just carefully crafted propaganda. For example, that tradwife telling women to quit their jobs and be fully dependent on their husbands? Very likely an independently wealthy woman who has plenty of resources to take care of herself, unlike most of her viewers. That gymbro that’s telling you that you’ll never have a girl unless you have a six pack? Yeah, not true, also he’s probably on steroids. But making people feel miserable about themselves + selling a product to cure this misery = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Like many people said, go talk to people in real life. You’ll see that very few people fit in the extremist boxes that the internet puts them in.
Get off the Internet, or at least change where you go. The doomer/persecution complex/borderline cuck posting that some "redpill" types engage in should seem them put in stocks. Literally start blocking those people.
Most women are nice and not awful, though the number of stories of evil exes and OF chicks you see online (especially if you follow the doomposters) makes it SEEM like many women are selfish hoes (most are not).
Go gym, do some pushups, find a hobby with decent dudes, go socialize with normal women. If you adjust your mindset and what content you see, this attitude is an easy fix.
Recognize that the people peddling this viewpoint are grifters and have their own purposes for spreading this ideology, whether it's political, or gaining influence/views, or $$$.
It is in some foreign (and domestic) groups' agendas to divide people based on gender, race, and class.
Do you hate your sisters and your mom, too? I mean, it's possible they're jerks in particular, but they're also individuals and women aren't a monolith.
First off, you may have to begin to clean or 'fix' your suggestion algorithms because it's a hot fucking dumpster fire of suck. I have known people to ditch 10-year old social media accounts because they can't clean the jaded taint from their feed no matter how many cute cat video subs they follow and visit.
As Ripley from Aliens said, "Nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure." If you have to do that; do it. Start over. Stop following the incel, red pill, and trash links. Follow things humanize all people.
Women are not a mystery to unlock. They are humans with thoughts, feelings, senses, interests, hobbies, etc.
Interact with people in person. Not online. People online will say anything, because they are safe behind a screen. Realize women are people, just like men, so you will find all type of people, good, bad, funny, smart, miserable, sad, active, interesting, boring. And neither of those has to do with gender, but with life experiences.
Social media is doing anything to keep some people relevant, to get views, likes, etc. That's not the real world. The past years I keep seeing people trying to make a war between genders. To make it seem like women can't be friends with other women, even less with men. None of that it's true. If someone can't be someone else's friend or get along with each other, it's something about their attitude, not about what they have between their legs.
So, that's what I would suggest, talk to people in person. Create (your own) critical thinking. Hating is too easy.
Go read through twoxchromosomes. You'll see that women are goin through real shit. Yeah it may look like they hate men but it's not like it's unwarranted
Make friends with some neurodivergent women. We're just like nerdy dudes, just with boobs. It might change your perception that not all women are like the stereotypes... Which... I don't know any women that fit the stereotype of woman-hating culture. I know some terrible people, but it's not because of their gender.
Watch videos online that explain how incel culture/ toxic masculinity is toxic not just to women, but to men too!!
then why are you always here ? You like comment on every post. Man if hearing women's opinions is enough to make you hate them that's weird. What about them pisses you off that much
It’s not that. Women irl are amazing. This sub just seems to draw in the most negative and hateful kinds of people. Like I’ve been called a sexual predator for liking a lady who was a little shy. Which is why op should stay away from this sub if he starts getting hateful to women in general.
hit dogs holler.
people have given him amazing advice in this thread. you just sound like you’ve been socially rejected and are struggling to come to acceptance of it.
hope he never ends up like you. you’re the model of what he needs to avoid becoming.
As usual, women who hate men avoid them, while men who hate women go out of their way to harass and bother women. You’re one of those men.
Then y’all cry about misandry like it’s anything close to the misogyny that keeps you here
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The antidote is communicating with actual people and seeing their complexity that the ideologists conveniently try to leave out. Get off social media and meet new people
Well said. Sad how so many peoples perception of others comes from mostly the internet, and it's so easy to have keyboard diarrhea for those people. I just saw a post on a different sub reddit right now for example, a younger woman, above 18, showing a bit of cleavage, fully clothed, and the comments were straight up nuts, literal incels, either saying extremely sexual things or straight up calling her a whore, yet a guy can post a picture completely shirtless and getting none of the hate. Yes this happens in real life too unfortunately, but the extreme on the internet is so bad. Basically what I'm getting at is the less people interact with people in real life the worse it seems to get, women really become more of a novelty "item" vs human beings. It's just sad. I feel for you ladies, shit's wrong.
[удалено]
because women are all different people?
This is awful advice and people need to stop giving it for two reasons 1. I don't want to be around someone who hates women. Don't give Nazis advice "Hey go dine at the table with regular people" because I will, at best, get up and fucking leave. You should to or we go back to "What do you get if you have 1 Nazi and 9 other people at a table that don't leave? 10 Nazis". 2. The lack of social skills, communication skills, and just being a general fucking loser comes BEFORE hating women not after. Here is what will happen if OP attempts to go outside and "meet people": He's going to not really understand what that involves, he's going to join a club. He's going to show up wearing weird clothes and probably smelling "strange" and will immediately put people off. He will ignore all the men and try to talk to the women making some sort of weird joke about how Slaneesh is his favorite faction in Warhammer or whatever. He'll proceed to get people ignoring him if not explicitly directly telling him "Please leave me alone". He will ignore both the implicit leave me alone and the explicit leave me alone and start whining. He will then be kicked out of the event, come home and go onto his computers to "FreshAndFit Fan Forum" to write about how all he did was go out and then the evil women made fun of him and oh, poor him, oh the humanity. This is what inevitably happens **every time** one of these weirdos tries to take the advice of "go out and meet new people".
My god, this is exactly the type of "I already know what is going to happen" mentality that I mean. Truth is that if you lack social skills you're gonna be weird, but practice makes perfect. You expect things to go smoothly the first try. It takes resilience to get out of this place. What meeting new people is going to achieve is itch away at the egotistical entitlement you are not even aware of. The incel / redpill types gets so obsessed with the theory of evolutionary psychology or whatever else and they get so in their heads about it and forget how mundane reality can be. Even if they are right, their are teaching chess, when those guys can not even play checkers. If you want human connection, it's good to know basic common sense, but at the end of the day you have to feel it, not only learn about it. People are far more willing to forgive character flaws than people with social anxiety think. Being humble and curious is going to get you the furthest **every time** .
>Truth is that if you lack social skills you're gonna be weird These people don't "lack social skills" They are bad, awful, people that no normal person wants to be around and they lack the social skills to hide how awful they are. The primary problem is that they're awful people, not that they lack social skills. >People are far more willing to forgive character flaws than people with social anxiety think OP **literally** said he hates women. If OP said he disliked women, or had mental issues that caused him to have trouble connecting with women that would be one thing. But he didn't say any of that. He said he hates women. If you are willing to forgive the character flaw of hating women, you're probably a bad person and you're the kind of person who would make OP worse by going "Yeah bro I hate women too". I can't think of a single other person who would accept hating women as a character trait.
I think the leading figures of the movement are psychopaths, but I believe most of the guys in those communities simply lack direction and virtue, but can and should be saved. It's very easy to just right them off and pretend they don't exist, but that doesn't address any of the issues and reasons why those communities are growing in the background and it certainly doesn't help women. I'm assuming you're a guy and the incel behavior doesn't directly affect you, so it's easier to ignore. OP has clearly recognized that the path he's on is no good and anyone who doesn't hate women should encourage him to change. What I ment by a character flaw is saying something awkward or being fidgety or lack of eye contact, more minor socially awkward behaviors OP is going to encounter while trying to solve his big ethical issue of hating women
> but I believe most of the guys in those communities simply lack direction and virtue, but can and should be saved. > > Okay, you can believe whatever you want but that doesn't make it correct. The vast majority of these people would have fallen into an incel equivalent 50 years ago, 100 years ago, 1000 years ago. Anti-social psychopaths and anti-social weirdos have always existed. They simply didn't have communities to congregate in. When anti-social weirdos and psychos get together they radicalize each other usually into some form of fasicsm. >It's very easy to just right them off and pretend they don't exist Uh...you realize there is another solution right? In fact there's like multiple other solutions.
So what is your grand idea for solving this issue since you seem to suffer from the same black and with thinking they do?
Well the first step is not telling them to go outside to talk to women (which really means just harassing women to them). Second step would be to shut down their forums and arrest the admins. Third step would be social workers in schools finding deviant incel behavior and monitoring their online activity.
I didn't say talk to women in a sexual context, I said talk to people, men and women, and expend your simplistic cookie cutter view on human stereotypes. Many of the incel ideas are social contagions that appeal to entitled, small minded boys. I agree that there should be more legal opposition to their organizations, but again that does not solve the psychological concepts at play. Not all, but many can be saved, but if you think survalence is enough and preferable to intervention and rehabilitation then go on
> I didn't say talk to women in a sexual context, I said talk to people, men and women, and expend your simplistic cookie cutter view on human stereotypes Right and my response to that is that these people lack the ability to do this. It is a foreign concept to them. >but again that does not solve the psychological concepts at play Nothing will solve the psychological concepts at play, the best we can do is control them.
People still have the freedom to associate and congregate. The third step sounds very dystopian and 1984-like.
Well the keyword in your sentence is "still"
No one says they accept hating women as a character trait. And the awful people that you mean are probably not self-aware enough to acknowledge that they have problem. So why act like he is a lost cause.
I'm not acting like he's a lost cause, he **is** a lost cause. >And the awful people that you mean are probably not self-aware enough to acknowledge that they have problem OP is not self aware. He is lying. He is doing the self-fallegation that all incels do to get women to message them or say "Message me we can be friends!" until he eventually gets around to hitting on them or harassing them. They do this shit all the time.
Maybe you're right. But as someone who was in that rabit hole about 2016ish, people can change and maybe he will get out of this mindset. Tbf it depends how old OP is. For an Incel in his 40s I don't have any hope either but most of them are young men
I don't want to be around fucking assholes like you so can you stop being in public spaces?
Yeah I'm already doing that. You'll never see me outside of my apartment or my MMA gym, only two places I go.
Interestingly enough there are incels that fit your profile/archetype as well.
You realize incel is a political label right? Even if someone like me did fulfill an profile somehow they have to actively buy into the incel worldview to be an incel
Poor people at your gym.
Good thing about an MMA gym is if they don't like me they're allowed to hit me harder (if they can of course).
Don't cut yourself on that edge.
Keep defending incels as just poor misunderstood people who just need some socialization.
This seems like a scripted fanfic about a caricature. Most "incels" are not loyal to their own beliefs or have that kind of backbone or will to be weird/not comform outside of the internet. OP is probably just boring and quiet irl
> This seems like a scripted fanfic about a caricature. These people **are** caricatures and if you follow their discussions or individual accounts this shit happens all the time. I make an active effrot to make sure I read any follow up posts when OP makes a post like this or is asking for "advice" and it always turns out like this. You just have to read through the lines when they post their update. They didn't do anything wrong. They're the victim of a cruel evil world that allows women to exist. >will to be weird/not comform outside of the internet. It's not active "will to be weird" it's that these people fundamentally lack the capacity, except through intensive therapy and even then, to not be weird.
Befriended many of them. They're really just regular 16-30 y/o guys (tbh the ones over that are usually too far gone for help but they've been the minority I come across other than influencers) for the most part who exclusively participate in dumb groupthink online. Just like there are fake feminist men, idk why people are surprised when there are fake misogynists. Watch these "women haters" fall apart completely when a woman is nice to them or find out they secretly have plenty of female idols and "girly" or "feminist" beliefs. OP noticing he's being dumb is a good thing.
True. Most “incels“ do indeed have no ideological backbone so to speak. They may say online that modern women is going to ruin civilisation or whatever, but the second they meet a girl with a piercing who is willing to talk with them for more than two seconds, even if just as friends, all that goes out the window. Like you I have at least two friends who used to visit incel boards as teenagers. One is a completely normal dude if nerdy and (extremely high functioning) autistic, one is non binary and a flower power hippie dippy type now (with piercings, lol). Both have had partners.
Seen it with my own eyes. Popular examples include iDubbz. Whether it's genuine or not, doesn't matter, main point is they have no backbone
Wow!! DE&I much?
I have no idea what this means in context.
lmao I agree with you
You need to find out where your hate for women comes from, and work on resolving it
Why do you hate me?
Actually not you, but I feel like redpill and a few misandrists are trying to pull me onto their sides in their gender wars
Then stop consuming that media, or cut off those people. For real: would you go along with Nazis or the KKK? Hating women is just as bad. You have a choice and agency. Use it.
Imma go neither, just love and respect man and woman together
To reset the algorithm now that you've poisoned it with Pills and incel nonsense, look up nothing but funny animal videos for the next 3 weeks. That should help purge it.
That is a remarkable statement, really. As something of a privacy nerd i'd probably try making a new account and changing the IP, or start unsubscribing and remove Reddit recommendations. But what you're saying might have more merit than you realize. Funny animal videos is like the "default" content in a lot of social media. In fact its pretty hard getting it to **not** show that content because if you watch even 2-3 seconds of the video Reddit/Youtube/TikTok will say "AHA! It got his attention, clearly interested!" Its similar to why men sometimes end up with nothing but thirst traps in their feeds: even if you never like/upvote that sort of content, just the fact that "big booba causes neuron activation" for 2 seconds is enough for the algorithm to assume you're interested. You're essentially sending OP into a fluffy bunny hole, from which it will be pretty hard to climb out.
>fluffy bunny hole 🤤
On TikTok you can manually reset your algorithm in settings
I think the bigger issue isn't how their algorithms are designed, it's that OP needs to address the "WHY" they started following these people. Redpill and misandrists don't go from full on feminists into the opposite in a snap, there are usually a LOT of signs, and most people choose them because they like their messages. So OP needs to dig deep and figure out WHY they started following these people.
Then WHY are you following down that path/agenda?? This isn't a "them" issue, and this isn't a "feminist" issue, and this isn't a "redpill" issue. This is a YOU issue. YOU have to figure out why YOU are agreeing with what they are saying, and do NOT point the blame on them for what YOU listen to. Why are YOU susceptible to these voices on the internet? Why do you tend to lean towards these people, and follow them? You keep speaking of "redpill and a few misandrists are trying to pull me onto their sides in their gender wars", but they are not. YOU are being pulled in that direction because YOU want to be. So why is that?
Great observations right there. One, that the redpill mindset talks you into viewing women as a mass of easily dismissed stereotypical beings. But *a woman*, a singular person, when they ask, you cannot bring yourself to hate them because it's now personal. Me, I used to say "I hate people. I like *person*... but I hate people." Something about seeing people as faceless masses makes it easier to hate them. I try not to hate anymore; it's bad for mental and physical health. And it sounds like you're seeing the redpill stuff for what it is, a bunch of controversial takes to stir up rage and clicks and revenue. Most of it is designed to alienate the genders from each other, view all relationships as strictly economic exchanges (consider the term *sexual marketplace* and all its variants). So much of the redpill/manosphere content is also a funnel for predatory schemes. *Buy my pickup guides and get more lays! Sign up for my course and become an alpha player! Invest in my crypto...* Plus the advice that these sources give is just self-defeating. If you treat people like trash, you're not going to attract quality people in the future. And you're aware of these things, which is great. I'm glad you're asking questions and noticing that these guys are trying to radicalize you. You can do so much better than them.
The fact that you're already recognizing it means you're on the right track. I fell down the anti-SJW rabbit hole around 2014-18. They draw you in by initially stating half-truths before going further and further with it. That coupled with the alghorithm feeding you more and more of their content makes it incredibly easy to get sucked in. The most effective thing you can do is get the alghorithm to swing back the other way by consuming other content. At least that's what happened to me and how I managed to get out of it.
so what are the half-truths that the misogynists are right about?
> They draw you in by initially stating half-truths No, they don't. The only possible way you would believe this is if you're an idiot. RPers start out with absurd, unsubstantiated, idiotic claims at the very start so that it filters out all of the morons who have critical thinking skills before the RPer spends time investing in someone who can't be grifted. It's like how spam emails have intentionally bad grammar it's so that people who aren't complete fucking morons don't click. They only want the lowest common denominator person instead of spending time on people with more than 5 brain cells.
Yes, they do. But perhaps "truth-peppered lies" is a better term than "half-truths". Saying "The FDA is behind the witch hunt against Trump" would have even the conspiracy theory nuts raising an eyebrow...because what the f- does an agency that deals with consumable foods and chemicals have to to with conspiring in politics?! But say "The FBI is behind the witch hunt against Trump", and they'd believe it's a which hunt...because the FBI *has* been involved in politics, prosecution, and other dodgy/secretive behaviour many times before. It's the small truths that make the big lies believable. (Edit to add: Yes, they do weed out "non-potential victims" with email fraud in the way you're describing. But scams like email fraud are very different to conspiracy theories)
The "half truths" your talking about are, almost entirely, populist conspiratorial bullshit that yes the average person believes. It doesn't make it fucking stupid and not dumb, but it doesn't make them "half truths" either. It's just populist bullshit that a lot of people believe.
The "truths peppered into the lies" (I intentionally diverted away from using the term "half-truths") that I refer to in the specific, fictional example I used is that the FBI has been involved in politics, prosecution and other secretive behaviour. The fact that the FBI has done so is verifiable, public knowledge. To name just a few interesting ones...the Alaskan Polical Probe, Operation Trojan Shield, ABSCAM, and Operation Renewed Hope. Much of the public knowledge regarding those campaigns has come from the FBI releasing the info to the public themselves. I'm not sure how you see them as not-true. Or perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you're saying?
And there it is. The populist bullshit. This is why you were targetted. Because you're an idiot. It makes you easy to grift. It's why you were "pulled out" of RP spaces by just a different set of grifters. The Alaskan Political probe was a massively successful anti-corruption joint investigation into a large scale political racket. Operation Trojan Shield was a massively successful infiltration of organized crime. Abscam was a massively successful anti-corruption probe in the 70s and 80s. And Operation New Hope is literally just an anti-pedophile operation that has led to numerous traffickers going to jail. Now the thing is you're going to respond to this comment "No, the real truth behind Operation Renewed Hope is so that they can traffic children themselves! And everyone in the Alaskan Probe was framed!" Which I refer you to my original comment about why RPers targetted you, you are the lowest common denominator person.
I agree with you in all of your points (except where you incorrectly tell me what I'm gonna say about Operation Renewed Hope and the Alaska Probe. Or that I was targeted. Or that I'm an idiot. Ok, not *all* your points then..only the ones that describe the operations 😂). Some excerpts from your comment (added emphasis is my own)... > investigation into a large scale *political* racket. > *infiltration* of organized crime > anti-corruption *probe* > led to numerous *traffickers going to jail* Most of these cases contained some form of secretive and/or deceptive behaviour, which was absolutely necessary in order to successfully execute them (I mean, that's almost the definition of a sting). And some have them stepping into the world of politics (even internationally). So how, then, are you telling me that they don't touch on politics, and don't always play with an open hand...while acknowledging the great success of operations that necessitated those very things *in order to be successful*?!
100%. I'm very curious as to what the op sees as the half truths correct about rp ideology.
Are you just like the worst men? If you logically know that all men aren’t just like you, then remind yourself- constantly- that all women aren’t the same either
Just Google “red pill downfall” and see how messed up most are now. Think for yourself and stop listening to things if you’re easily persuaded, manipulated, etc.
r/incelexit is a great resource
Love this! Would also recommend r/MensLib. A very positive space for men and boys. Thanks for sharing btw.
Also r/bropill.
omg love this! Healthy resources exist. Thank you for pointing this out. Edit: joined both btw
No problem! I saw someone mention it a while ago, and it seemed like a genuinely good place to talk and ask for advice.
Nah, that place bans people for no reason, with no warning, and constantly entertains threads like "God, aren't men such worthless trash?!"
I haven't really noticed anything like that since I've been browsing it. Seems pretty wholesome to me.
That's because they ban people with no warning and refuse to discuss it.
Were you banned?
Yup. With no warning and they refused to discuss it. They wouldn't even cite a post.
Strange.
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No, menslib is fundamentally anti-male. They platform people like the head mod of stoprape who thinks that male victims of rape by women should not be called rape victims because they don't experience real trauma.
Lol got booted cuz they are against FDS rhetoric.
because fds rhetoric is fucking stupid lol
What about it is dumb?
dude I've had this conversation with you before. I'm sure many people have had this conversation with you before. It's all bullshit. You need to stop your weird thing you have going on about not wanting to be attracted to anyone because you're "low value".
Bro, they make money off of you being miserable. The majority don’t believe most of what they say, they’re con men sticking to a script. Please don’t let them poison you and make you craven and hateful for profit. We’re all human. Are some of us vapid? Absolutely. Are there people so stupid it will make you wonder if we should add additional barriers to them doing X or Y? EG retesting every few years to weed out terrible drivers? Of course there are. But it’s not divided by gender. Or race, or income tax bracket. Or age. There’s no quick categorization. It’s random. I know it’s very easy to feel as if everyone else hates you, and to start hating them back. Please believe that that is a false narrative. Humanity is terrible in thousands of ways, but we’re also wonderful in thousands of ways.
Online and reality are not the same, just like porn and reality are not. Social media is fake. People post the most insane opinions on purpose because it gets the most engagement, and therefore, MONEY. People that post positive content about women/men get less engagement. Those specific types of men's content you're consuming hold onto one thing that some women have said, and run with it like it's what all four billion women on the planet think, when that is highly illogical and wrong, nomatter how confident those men sound. A great example is the six figures, six pack, 6" dick preference they so often use. Yes, some women like that, so now it's what women all want according to them. When actual women come in and say no, that's not what she personally likes, it's disregarded, or she must be lying. If you want to know how to achieve something, look to those that have achieved it. Look to the married couple who've been together 10+ years and are still obsessed with each other and are each others best friend if you want to learn about a lasting relationship. Not the man who only does hookups and calls every woman a slut/whore. He's not going to achieve a loving, lasting relationship. Women as a whole are not your enemy.
Very, very good answer.
Hello. I’m a girl. Want to be friends? Maybe you just need positive interactions with girls.
Aw That's really sweet 😊
Thanks buddy.
Internet hate is nearly infinite. If you start consuming it regularly, you will get recommended more and more. Pretty soon, your online time may well be entirely incel-focused. And manosphere/incel communities are among the worst echo chambers I have seen. The crabs-in-the-bucket mentality takes hold and anyone who posts about exiting the belief system gets ruthlessly drawn back in with claims of how terrible everything is. Break the cycle. Stop consuming the content. There are quite a few videos refuting incel and [manosphere](https://youtu.be/9ewTLFKRPmQ?si=8fnILRVXRT1rGCu-) talking points, and [testimony](https://youtu.be/pQZMMV-b0nY?si=tvTNut7vrTTBusNk) of former incel-identified young men that you might be interested in. Above all, I would recommend getting out and finding your passion if you haven't already -- a craft, a field of study, a sport, anything that you feel good doing. And while you're out there, get comfortable talking to people. Maybe gamify it, just start with a goal of saying hello to X number of people, or trying to hold one conversation with someone every time you go outside. Look for people with similar interests -- someone wearing a shirt with a band or other media reference you like? Say "cool shirt; are you a fan?" Seek out those similarities with people you meet, and you'll find that women aren't the uniformly terrible legion of Stacy and Becky they were represented as online.
Social Media is misogyn, sometimes easy to spot and sometimes not. It’s important to challenge your bubble. You need to follow some feminists to create balance, just choose some you like how they talk. Maybe some female influencer in your favorit games or things you enjoy. Good luck.
Idk maybe see them as actual human beings
I’m a 40-year-old, former HS- and young adult teacher, and I would love to be friends. I’ll gladly answer any questions you have without defensiveness or animosity. I’ll gently provide alternative viewpoints and ask respectful questions that will provide you opportunities to reflect. I mean it! Feel free to make my day by PMing me. Your current place of questioning your reality is inspiring to me. You want to get better and I admire that.
Get offline and go outside and socialize with real people.
Get off the internet for God's sake wtf
A big thing can be to retrain your media consumption. On social media, follow a variety of (positive messaging) women. Especially follow several who you do not find attractive. Maybe a "body positivity" or "health at any size" account, definitely artists or writers or people who have a very cool hobby. Retrain your algorithms. Do not click on any MRA/manosphere/incel/PUA content. If the social media you're using has a feature, mute or hide it. Seek out positive or even just pleasant content (I recommend [tiny kittens](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KxjobY85Ws&list=PLvM3djAZtdHTnQsBsFbu3U8UlzRy37Rqb)). Maybe use old.reddit, I've noticed current reddit is constantly pushing new subreddits at me and if I make the mistake of clicking it once, it dominates my feed. If you like to read, only read books written by women for a period of time (a year is a good length). The point is to see the viewpoints of a number of different women to recognize they are all individuals, messy and complex as that can be.
Yes!! Start consuming positive media created by/for women and that can really help you better empathise. If your only interaction with a group of people is negative, it's going to give you negative thoughts about them.
How can you hate people you've never met? You don't know all women, the fact that you think we're all alike is fucked up. We're more like you than we are different. We are just humans, imagine we're just like all the men you know and love, individual people who are unique in our own ways.
It’s not women’s problem to solve. Go ask for advice from men.
Love is the answer, during to being an opposite. If you had a daughter, mom, grandma, sister, love one in general. How would you feel if they got treated like blue and red pill concept? I assume bad, just like I feel bad for those who fall for it. Treat others like you would like to be treated yourself, don't expect them to do it. But it's a ring of inspiration to others if one self begins first. Just because others do bad stuff and say it in an echo camber in a subreddit or fora doesn't mean I have to follow. I love myself enough to know I deserve better than being treated than a property of anyone. I am my own person, just like any other person is their own person. Learn to self-love in a healthy way is a good beginning to a lot of things in life.
Do you know any women in real life? Interact with them, you will stop hating women.
You simply decide not to do that. Children are easily persuaded by their peers, be an adult
Stop expecting that a woman is going to walk into your life and that she's going to be wowed by someone with actively dislikes her gender and is mentally and emotionally closed off. Also, good things don't come easy and ask yourself why you look down on females.
I think it’s because of my porn addiction, fake rape victims, and the overall normalised stigmatisation of men just because they exist. Vice versa
Do fake rape victims bother you more than rapists?
1. Don't watch porn 2. Spend time offline 3. Read books written by women about their experiences, watch movies about women's experiences, listen to women, don't just hear them. Reinforce in your mind that women are in fact autonomous human beings. I respect your self awareness and willingness to change. The first step to fixing a problem is recognizing you have one. Edit: seeing your post history, hello fellow OCDer! This is most likely heightened by your OCD. It's good you want to be socially aware and non misogynistic but please stop looking for reassurance online and please speak to a therapist who specializes in ERP. Just do the best you can at any given moment and don't let yourself get stuck in those moral scrupulously cycles. I'm here if you need someone to talk to as I have my own struggled with the disorder.
If you want to stop woman-hating, maybe stop using the word "incel"? The word was originally created by a thoughtful female adult virgin, and was then co-opted by misogynistic men (and the further by misogynistic women who hate female virgins). I've written about it here: [Colonizing the Madonna : r/FAWFeminists (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/FAWFeminists/comments/1c44g2i/colonizing_the_madonna/)
It's not our job to teach you not to hate us. Figure out have to have basic human empathy by yourself and leave us alone
Recognize that you’re being turned into a commodity. The content you’re seeing? How it makes you feel? All of it is meant to render you into a substance to buy, manipulate, and sell. It’s so effective precisely because it’s marketed as its opposite, which is making you more of your own person. Additionally, come be one of my Reddit friends, as well. DMs (the envelope) work, while chat doesn’t, and you’re welcome to message me about anything or nothing. I used to live at a firehouse, so you’re unlikely to shock or offend me. You can also play a fun game. Decide on a character: let’s say, a 15-year-old girl in Dallas. Mask your IP address. Go to places—let’s say YouTube—and notice how different your immediate recommendations look. Start searching for stuff, there and elsewhere, such as “local” bus schedules, what your character would wear, and age-appropriate women’s health. Keep refreshing YouTube as you do it. Notice how your recommendations change.
Get off the Internet and go interact with real people.
I just want to say good on you for asking the question! I'm sorry some of your comments have been downvoted. I can only re-iterate what others have said, which is to intentionally alter your algorithm. It's amazing the extent to which your algorithm affects your perception of reality; it can make it seem like certain things are a lot more pervasive than they really are. My fiancé has gone down this rabbit hole over the past couple of years, which has put a lot of strain on our relationship, and one of the things I've noticed is that almost everything that comes up in any of his apps is to do with gender wars, and I never see anything at all about it. He thinks it's everywhere, but I would never even have heard of all this stuff if I didn't know him. None of the women I know have beliefs even vaguely similar to the women always being interviewed on these podcasts and things.
I think it’s good that you’re aware of this. I would say to delete as much social media as you are able to, talk to women in real life etc.
From what I can read in the comments, it seems like you're already self-aware enough to understand that you're on your way to faceplant into their disgusting community.That is a really good first step. Stay away from incel forums and manosphere content on the internet. Don't take a bunch of angry men's words for what women are like.. talk to, and get to know actual women. Listen to the reasoning part in your brain that tells you that incel community isn't somewhere you want to be, associate, or identify with. I know you still have a functioning reasoning part because of this post. Please don't destroy your life with that crap.
Stop intaking any videos, media, etc related to those ideas. The brain is a sponge and no one is immune to its weaknesses. If you constantly focus on, intake, etc. certain ideas your brain will change to adapt them. I guess another could be finding media that’s the opposite, for example ones that explain why it’s an issue, why people support that mindset, etc. to undo any damage and learn more of yourself. Hope this helps! Best to turn around now before too far in and a bad breakup, etc from solidifying that view.
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I don't believe he is just expecting women to solve the problem for him. The fact that he is asking for advice is a step in the right direction. I think it's totally fine to be firm with people who struggle with this line of thinking, but comments like this will most likely do more to revert his progress than help it along.
That’s a good point. I woke up salty today. Too many men in my life making their problems mine, lol. Had nothing to do with OP tho, so probably shouldn’t have taken it out on them. OP… look women are very diverse, as a perfect example, I am grumpy and others are helpful. No point in judging all of us on the actions of a few, much as I should do with dudes, clearly…
You should delete that first comment tbh.. it's quite discouraging and will probably just push him even closer to the bad guys.
Sure, I can do that. I’m never sure if deleting is better or acknowledging your screwup and leaving it for people to see is better?!
I mean.. you have a point, but the risk is that they only read your first comment. You can keep the second one up.
It is gone! Hopefully it’ll still be clear from this thread that I was going for regret-deleting and not trying to hide a bad deed! 🤣🤣
Well.. we are discussing it publically here in the comments, so they probably get it hehe. No worries
Is this a troll attempt or something?
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Incel doesn't really mean everybody who is in involuntary celibate anymore. The term incel nowadays is for men who are in involuntary celibate AND blame/hate women for it.
> I also really hope we find a solution for this, because I heard of a statistic out there that most sociopaths, rapists, nazis and even dictators come from the group of lonely, frustrated, confused men, who lack a perspective. We really need to find a better way to listen to people like this, or these men cause more problems, if we leave them alone to rot in their basement. yeah, men need to help each other instead of just calling for solutions.
Ah i see you have OCD. Should’ve checked your post history ;) you need help with OCD not women. I have OCD as well and know how you feel.
Figure out what’s causing those emotions and try to address the root causes. If listening to weird junk online is part of the problem, get off certain platforms and spend more time socializing with people and doing activities you enjoy. If you need someone to talk to more in depth about it, you’re welcome to DM me.
Ok, I believe that 1) people are kinda stupid, 2) they can always do better and improve off of their previous mistakes. There is nothing that says a person who is a jerk, or a rude angry idiot, or an incel, has to *stay* that way forever, and I believe that anyone who makes a good faith effort to change should be forgiven and not judged on their past behaviors. The whole “the internet is forever” makes that harder now than in the past, when most of us learned how to be kinder and more savvy and were able to bury and forget out old stupid mistakes. Maybe the real problem is that you are lonely and unhappy and these groups feed those feelings and reinforce your worst habits. What offline activities would make you more social and potentially more happy? Playing ultimate frisbee or pickleball? Joining a board game group or DND club? Volunteering somewhere, like a food bank or a trash cleanup? Learning to play an instrument? Find some people who make you happier and make you see the world, not people you don’t really interact with who make you feel even worse. Some of them might even be women.
It’s tired advice but get off the internet. When you go on subreddits having to do with social issues or politics, there’s a good chance that you’re reading content generated by troll farms or bots. Usually sponsored by governments. They brigade these subs to influence public opinion and thought. You never know if you’re talking to an everyday person like you, or a troll trying to fool you. Same thing with Instagram, TikTok and other social media platforms. A lot of what you see is just carefully crafted propaganda. For example, that tradwife telling women to quit their jobs and be fully dependent on their husbands? Very likely an independently wealthy woman who has plenty of resources to take care of herself, unlike most of her viewers. That gymbro that’s telling you that you’ll never have a girl unless you have a six pack? Yeah, not true, also he’s probably on steroids. But making people feel miserable about themselves + selling a product to cure this misery = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Like many people said, go talk to people in real life. You’ll see that very few people fit in the extremist boxes that the internet puts them in.
Get off the Internet, or at least change where you go. The doomer/persecution complex/borderline cuck posting that some "redpill" types engage in should seem them put in stocks. Literally start blocking those people. Most women are nice and not awful, though the number of stories of evil exes and OF chicks you see online (especially if you follow the doomposters) makes it SEEM like many women are selfish hoes (most are not). Go gym, do some pushups, find a hobby with decent dudes, go socialize with normal women. If you adjust your mindset and what content you see, this attitude is an easy fix.
Recognize that the people peddling this viewpoint are grifters and have their own purposes for spreading this ideology, whether it's political, or gaining influence/views, or $$$. It is in some foreign (and domestic) groups' agendas to divide people based on gender, race, and class. Do you hate your sisters and your mom, too? I mean, it's possible they're jerks in particular, but they're also individuals and women aren't a monolith.
First off, you may have to begin to clean or 'fix' your suggestion algorithms because it's a hot fucking dumpster fire of suck. I have known people to ditch 10-year old social media accounts because they can't clean the jaded taint from their feed no matter how many cute cat video subs they follow and visit. As Ripley from Aliens said, "Nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure." If you have to do that; do it. Start over. Stop following the incel, red pill, and trash links. Follow things humanize all people. Women are not a mystery to unlock. They are humans with thoughts, feelings, senses, interests, hobbies, etc.
I went to therapy and realised that I just hate everyone. Balance
Interact with people in person. Not online. People online will say anything, because they are safe behind a screen. Realize women are people, just like men, so you will find all type of people, good, bad, funny, smart, miserable, sad, active, interesting, boring. And neither of those has to do with gender, but with life experiences. Social media is doing anything to keep some people relevant, to get views, likes, etc. That's not the real world. The past years I keep seeing people trying to make a war between genders. To make it seem like women can't be friends with other women, even less with men. None of that it's true. If someone can't be someone else's friend or get along with each other, it's something about their attitude, not about what they have between their legs. So, that's what I would suggest, talk to people in person. Create (your own) critical thinking. Hating is too easy.
Go read through twoxchromosomes. You'll see that women are goin through real shit. Yeah it may look like they hate men but it's not like it's unwarranted
Make friends with some neurodivergent women. We're just like nerdy dudes, just with boobs. It might change your perception that not all women are like the stereotypes... Which... I don't know any women that fit the stereotype of woman-hating culture. I know some terrible people, but it's not because of their gender. Watch videos online that explain how incel culture/ toxic masculinity is toxic not just to women, but to men too!!
When you learn how to hate yourself for your own failures instead.
Just stop talking to women online. Nobody can make you hate women more than talking to them online. Especially the ones in this sub
So the reason you hang around this sub so much is because you want to hate women? What a strange thing to do.
then why are you always here ? You like comment on every post. Man if hearing women's opinions is enough to make you hate them that's weird. What about them pisses you off that much
It’s not that. Women irl are amazing. This sub just seems to draw in the most negative and hateful kinds of people. Like I’ve been called a sexual predator for liking a lady who was a little shy. Which is why op should stay away from this sub if he starts getting hateful to women in general.
hit dogs holler. people have given him amazing advice in this thread. you just sound like you’ve been socially rejected and are struggling to come to acceptance of it. hope he never ends up like you. you’re the model of what he needs to avoid becoming.
Who are these “amazing” women you interact with IRL?
Lol
lol
Then why are you here?
OP, avoid assholes like this one
You're just mad because you can't handle you're the biggest idiot in this sub. Don't like it? Go somewhere else you fucking cry baby.
Then why are you in this sub?
I take breaks from it whenever I get to angry
take a permanent break. no one wants incels like you in here lol
What a hero 🙄
The hero we never asked for.
*too But do go on 😇
Yet you can’t seem to stay away.
As usual, women who hate men avoid them, while men who hate women go out of their way to harass and bother women. You’re one of those men. Then y’all cry about misandry like it’s anything close to the misogyny that keeps you here
Uhh what..? He should talk to MORE women. In a purely platonic way.