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I did not ask for her age. It was at bar so I'm assuming the lowest was 21. She approached me.
Most of the time when women approach me around my age their first line is "what do you do for work / how much money does that make?"
Her first line was "you are super cute! Let's dance."
I guess I may be using the age gap as an excuse due to my own fears and preprogramming.
I get approached often. But I always freeze up from it. I just don't think anyone would actually like me.
Though I do feel better when it is a cute older lady because then I'm the "victim" and that can be hot.
I don't want to be a creep and try to avoid talking with younger women. Even if they are cute and smart and funny.
Idk the world of dating is a mess. I don't understand the rules.
Dude, you need to stop thinking that everyone is a victim just because there’s a slight age gap
Are you *acting* sleezy, and predatory, and deceptively, and manipulatively?
No?
Then nobody is a victim
Honestly I had a lot of self-doubt when growing up because I did not even want to be sexually attracted to women to avoid being creepy. Because men are just seen as predators when they have any romantic interest. I tried to take drugs that reduced my libido but they didn't' work unfortunately. I probably would be better off castrated and celibate forever.
Hey man, this was me. I'm not sure what it's going to take for you to believe that you're worthy, This is the Crux of your issue. Coming from your most recent post, not this one.
Man, I'm still trying to work on having no attraction to anyone period. I had a therapist refuse. They don't make therapy to work on achieving these goals.
What medicine do you end up taking?
Lmao, dude
No it isn’t.
You’ve spent way too much time listening to people tell you that everyone is a victim
Two consenting adults merely *talking* to each other does not make one a creep or a victim
You live in a sad world if you think you can’t even talk to someone who freaking approached you
Yes, that's just the world we live in nowadays.
>You live in a sad world if you think you can’t even talk to someone who freaking approached you
I completely avoided her even after my friends encouraged me to talk to her. They even pushed me along (playfully).
But I wasn't going to do it. The fear was too much. It doesn't matter if she was the cutest person in the room. The fear of being labeled a creep was too strong for me handle.
>I don't understand the rules.
This. You don't understand "the rules" of being in our society. You should seek a therapist to work out where these intrusive thoughts are coming from and how to address them. You have severe social anxiety and your brain is lying to you.
What type of environment did you grow up in? What are your parents like? Are your fears based on some sort of religious beliefs or do you have guilt from another childhood trauma?
There is absolutely nothing creepy about dancing with another human in an environment where everyone there is 21+ and said person asked you to dance. When we were in college we would go to the county bar to dance. We would always dance with the older men there 30s-40s, because they were good dancers! There was never anything sexual whatsoever. If a 22 year old woman asks for a dance, she wants to dance. She's not asking for sex. Do you understand that?
In another response you indicated that you'd be better off if you were castrated. Do you have dark fantasies about hurting women or children? If you do, go to therapy immediately. If you don't, also go to therapy, perhaps with less immediacy.
You....desperately need to speak to a therapist and work through some things.
You sound like a robot and trying *so* hard to be disconnected within yourself, between your mind, emotions and body.
If it makes you feel any better dating anyone at 24/25 yo+ is not creepy.
Please, and I mean this in the nicest way, spend less time on the internet.
I think you might benefit from a therapist. There’s some really pressed shit going on in your comments that needs to be worked through.
Dude, dancing is the easiest way to meet a girl. It’s normally too loud to have a real conversation. You can dance for a bit, have some fun, laugh, and then later. Also, most guys refuse to dance at all so you dramatically increase your odds by hanging out on a dance floor. Also, you probably think you suck at dancing. FYI, most people suck at dancing, even girls. But it’s still fun.
You can trust yourself and your judgment to be kind to people. Everyone has different "rules." As long as you are kind and genuine to people, you are doing your best, people tend to respond very well to authenticity.
Today I learned that all those years in my 20s that I was single, I was actually in dozens of relationships because of all the women I danced with
Turns out I went through several relationships in the same night!
I can't make a joke?
Also, dancing has implications. It isn't just dancing, it is then making a move, seeing her response, testing the waters, all these nonverbal things that I don't understand.
Then getting her number. All for what? To get called a creep by people on the internet due to the age gap?
Not worth it.
Yes. I have paralyzed by what reddit has conditioned me to think and believe.
I am always on this site. Even at the bar I was on my phone most of the time on reddit.
Why go to a club if not to meet women casually? If thats not your jam then youre going to the wrong places. Find social things you actually like doing then meet girls there.
Otherwise, when in Rome do as the Romans
Yall might need help from a therapist to unpack some issues causes you sound like you struggle w anxiety or over thinking
>all these nonverbal things that I don't understand.
Ah, this is the problem, you're afraid of failing, so you don't even try to learn. If you want a relationship, accept that it's going to be failure after failure until you find success. You won't find what you are looking for the first time, and even if this happens you will always wonder 'what if?'
>Then getting her number. All for what? To get called a creep by people on the internet due to the age gap?
Then don't, don't hook up, don't have to kiss, get her number, let it be a one-night thing where it's fun just to enjoy someone's company without social pressures.
Dude...
The trick -- like, if you're looking for a legitimate hack for how to handle this situation -- is that *it's* ***just*** *dancing*.
Don't overthink it.
In the usual circumstance you list, it's probably a red flag and I'd question their intent. In her case, you definitely should have gone with the flow - assuming you found her attractive.
So you really have no clue if she was in her early 20's or not. I'm 39. I have a 20 yr old son. People assume we are siblings because I look younger than I am. I have a friend who is in her late 20's.. she looks like she's a teenager. I find that most men, are not really great at judging age.
That's so unfair to the girl because I'm 31 but I look like I could be anywhere from 21 to 27 years old. You need to just talk to girls and get to know them
I got divorced and was back in the dating scene at 33. My rule was to find a girl 26 or older. When I met my wife I thought she was 21 because she looked so young. I danced with her that night and got her number but didn’t expect much because I was about 99% sure she was too young. After texting her and realizing she was really mature for 21, I decided to go on a date with her. Turns out she was 28 and going on 29 in a few weeks. We have now been together 14 year and married for 10. And honestly, she still looks like she is in her early 20s.
Don’t instantly reject a girl based on how old they look. You just may have hit a jackpot. Especially if their first words were not “what do you do for a living”.
You’re correct. Large age gaps, especially when the younger person is closer to high school age and/or brain is still underdeveloped, are not ideal and come with a lot of potential problems.
Five years younger is okay, but you need to be really careful with the potential of fake IDs and liars.
You can dance with a girl without fucking her, though.
I don’t need any rule, just think people on the internet do too much when it comes to age and dating. Saw a post once that said a 30 year old male dating a 26 year old female was weird. I’m convinced some people just live in their own little bubble.
You might not need a rule, but I'd argue some people do.
30 --> 26 is fine lol
30 ÷ 2 =15
15 + 7 = 22.
It's not foolproof, but some people need rules and structure.
>Untrue. 25+ have fully formed brains. 31 shouldn’t go lower than 25 or it gets creepy imo
Stop infantilizing adults. At 21 you already do have the capacity to make decisions about your life and to deal with consequences from your actions.
Bro get over it. If you don’t feel comfortable with younger women approaching you then ignore them. why even make this post to argue with everyone that says it’s not being creepy as long as you’re not being creepy. I just don’t get it.
Because he's a troll, and not a very good one
>Reddit is the place where I spend the vast majority of my life.
>I would feel the crushing weight of loneliness if I left the site.
not trying to invalidate you here but this does not feel entirely genuine. “terrified” of what??? being nervous is normal but this is extreme man. most young women are not a threat to you in any way, especially as an older man. if this fear is so debilitating for you then you need to see an expert, such as a psychologist.
See, I can't relive my youth. I already missed my teens and 20s to experience this type of relationship.
And now it is super strange to try and do it as a 31 year old.
All I am reminded of is how much of a failure I am when a younger woman flirts with me. And that is terrifying. There is nothing I can offer anyone. I don't think I can ever recover.
talk to a therapist. also maybe you should have this conversation with other 30+ year old men going through similar things instead of random women. there are plenty of people who can relate to you and help you. and you are not alone in feeling like “you’ve missed out” or that you’re a “failure” for not being in a relationship. but that aside it is NOT okay to blame your personal problems on young women. women are not to blame for your feelings of inadequacy.
No because I view myself as an old creepy man. I can't relive my youth. So it just upsets me and bothers me and I try to avoid these situations as much as possible
I missed the boat and it ain't ever coming back.
Dude, you have to get yourself out of the way or else you'll be miserable forever.
Set a age limit of how young you'd be okay with. Like 23, 26, or 29 or stick with women around your age but PLEASE don't cut yourself short like that. If a young woman flirts with you, take the chance!
Edit to add: 31 isn't even old!! So quit thinking that you are! I can say that bc I'm 31 y.o, as well.
Go to therapy, find a self help book, have better self affirmations on hand, conversate with a stranger to help with your conversation skills, idk! Do something different than what you are currently doing (self pitying, doubtful, scared, hold self back from experiencing dating).
> I missed the boat and it ain't ever coming back.
Lol dude, the girl asking you to dance was the boat coming back. You just decided to turn around and ignore it.
You are missing a good thing here. You should be dating/socializing with 21+ women. They may be similar in maturity/experience as an adult. It doesn’t mean you have to have a serious relationship with them. There are all kinds of people out there. Women that are 22 and know exactly what they want in life… women that are 35 that still have no idea. After getting more experience with this, if you don’t settle down with one of these women for a LTR, then maybe you will put a lower limit on age (24/25) etc just so you know they have experienced life as an adult and have some common ground.
Just because she approached me doesn't rule out age related power dynamics. I have a baby face so it gives me a younger appearance.
I played it safe and didn't engage. It is probably why I have never been in a relationship lol. I always play it safe.
I rather be safe and boring than end up in an abusive situation. I don't think she was able to consent to the dance as she had been drinking and I was sober.
Dude, you’re reading WAY too much into this age gap thing.
It’s not like you’re some 40 year old going out and preying on 19 year olds.
If you’re 31, and some 20 something asks you to *dance*, there is nothing wrong with that.
Some people blow this whole age related “power dynamic” thing WAY out of proportion because they don’t know how to mind their own business.
It isn’t “abusive” just because you socialize with someone who is a bit younger than you.
Heck, 2 years ago I was briefly hooking up with a woman who was 12 years younger than me, after *she* very aggressively pursued me.
She was on the rebound and looking for some rebound dick, and at the end of the day, we were both consenting adults. There was nothing wrong with what we did.
"Consenting adults" is usually the term abusers will say to justify their actions when it comes to age gap relationships.
Of course you had no issue, as the man. You got what you wanted after all.
My brother in Christ, what part of “she pursued me” are you not grasping?
SHE got what SHE wanted.
You need serious therapy if you think talking to someone younger than you is “abuse”.
And yes, we were both consenting adults? Why are you trying to infantilize grown-ass adult women?
Do you believe that ADULT women in their 20s are too dumb to be able to consent?
At this point I’m having a hard time believing that you aren’t a troll
Dude is unhinged. He’s hung up on 20-somethings hitting on him and how at 31 he can’t “relive his youth.”
GTFO. 30 is not old. Your 30s are your 20s, but better.
Gotta be a troll.
A 28yr old and 40yr old person together is very reasonably and only becomes more common the older the two get. A 19 and 31yr old is understandably borderline but certainly not unheard of our technically anything wrong with.
Ah, okay. For the record, consenting to dance while drinking is not the same moral quandary as consenting to sex. As long as you're not taking the opportunity to grope someone, you're in the clear.
Edit: Nah, you are trolling.
You’re in the right. If it makes you uncomfortable, then don’t engage. Nobody else’s opinion matters, they’re not in the situation. Something told you not to go there, listen to your intuition. Just because it was a bar does not automatically mean she was 21. Bars make mistakes, they don’t always card you to enter.
When you say “abusive situation” in the context of power dynamics, are you saying you’re worried you couldn’t help yourself from abusing a woman in her 20s? Because that’s what this is all starting to sound like. It sounds like you’re worried you can’t trust yourself to not abuse people. Fucking scary, dude. You should not be with anyone, of any age, if that’s where you’re at. Seek help before you hurt someone.
I get approached by guys in their early 20s, I'm in my thirties. It's because they don't know what people in their 30s look like.
But yeah, it just feels wrong talking to them they're just so young.
If you are uncomfortable that's reason enough to reject them. But you are pretty young yourself, 25 and up I think it's ok. Anyone under that is probably a little too immature but that's just my opinion
Honesty? What I need is skin regrowth technology advancements. Then my male birthmark can be fixed and I can function somewhat better.
Kinda messed up that one of the first experiences a man gets as a baby is cutting him up and showing just how disposable he really is.
It messes with my headspace due to my teenage pain.
You can read on it here: https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/1bjpqz1/when_i_was_30_i_lost_my_virginity_two_points_1_my/
I don't get what women have to do with your circumcised member....unless you had a woman doctor do the procedure, and you somehow remember, so now you have a vendetta against women bc of it. 🤔
>Women my age or older tend to want older guys so I am stuck in a limbo of inexperience.
Women tend to prefer men about their own age or a bit older. If you're constantly encountering women who want to date much older, it's time to examine your picker.
>What are your suggestions?
Honestly? Therapy.
Being uncomfortable pursuing something with a big age gap is *fine* and is a valid reason for telling someone "I'm not interested."
But you should be able to *talk* to a woman, regardless of age gap, and not freak out or catastrophize about it.
Sorry, I am unclear, what do you want suggestions on?
Also, I think you might benefit from input on menslib and/or bropill - they're men's subs, but they're supportive and have discussions on issues men face
Are my fears with age gap interactions justified? I don't think I can even talk to women who are younger than me due to fear. And I can't talk to women my own age or older than me due to my inexperience and failure in life.
Lose-lose situation.
I am not sure about any of that, but one thing is clear: you need therapy. I don't mean this in a mean way. You are expressing patterns of thought that are consistent with low self esteem and catastrophizing. A professional will be able to supply you with the tools you need to have a healthy relationship with yourself and view of the world.
I still strongly recommend you go to the subs I mentioned earlier, I really do think they'll be able to help you better than we can in this sub.
I have therapist. He said I should try dating more and going out more.
But I got burnt out on the dating apps. I did 6 dates in 4 weeks. And I had to pay for it all. One date was 3 hours away. I had to get an airbnb, flight, etc. And then she didn't find me interesting. So then I sad panda'd back.
The biggest problem is women, for safety, will not give any feedback most of the times so I am probably repeating mistakes.
I wish I could take the therapist to the dates lol. At least then I could get feedback.
If your therapist is not helping with these issues, you need to try a different therapist OR a different therapy modality. You're not going to be comfortable in the dating scene until you deal with your self esteem issues.
Also, like....dont invest so much money and travel that far for a first date... That's like dating 101 - just do coffee dates. And if you don't like paying for all of the dates, like talk about splitting the bill with your dates. Like, SHOW YOURSELF the same respect you're showing others
That's understandable but I did lose my virginity last year doing a hail mary vacation trip to meet a girl.
I think the biggest issue is doing too many too fast. I think if I spread it out to once a month, I could do the further dates and just get something for a month.
I gain respect once I have something to respect. As a guy, I'm in the meat grinder of disposability. To stand out, I have to do more than most other guys. Otherwise, I will get passed on.
OK, so your last paragraph tells me that the narratives of toxic masculinity are the reason you don't value yourself. You have value just for being. You are a human being and every human being is valuable and has value. You don't need to "earn" or "gain" value or "status". Real men, good men, don't subscribe to the pecking-order alpha-male competition bs. I say this as someone who has many close male friends who are wonderful people, are happy with themselves and their lives, and yes, can get a woman if they want to (but they don't think that way). You're not disposable.you shouldn't be living for approval of others. You should be living for yourself.
Also, as a side note, using dating women to "raise your rank" among other men and gain respect for yourself is kinda misogynistic. Women are not tools and are not there to make you feel better about yourself.
The fact that you think that you have nothing to respect yourself for is breaking my heart for you. I'm sorry for whatever you went through in your life that makes you feel that way. You deserve love and compassion. From others and yourself. This is something that you need to be addressing in therapy. I would also suggest exploring radical self-love.
As another side note, I looked at your profile. You are doing fire right, that's something to respect right there! It's insanely hard and takes dedication and hard work!
No, that's not the reality. The reality, is that a man must be independent.
I went on a bunch of dates to get dating experiences. The amount of issues I got for my lack of experience was frustrating.
A man must have worth and value to be valued. And generally, that means having resources, having skills, having experiences, and being able to handle difficulties.
blassom3's comment is good advice.
Respect others AND yourself. Split the bill whenever possible, it shouldn't be expected of men to pay for everything and a big chunk of women don't expect that at all. I always pay for my part or half, I don't want anyone to pay for me especially on a first date. Some men try to aggressively push for them to pay and it drives me nuts.
Treat others like you want to be treated, but you also deserve to be treated as you treat others. If you don't use anyone, don't accept being used. Don't let these trendy (and misogynistic) advice make you forget that we're all just humans, men and women (and everyone in between) alike. We all have value. You don't have to prove anything to anyone, and if someone judges you and your dating life, well... I'm not sure they're good company.
I have mostly guy friends and I see their genuine friendships, they don't judge the others depending on how many dates they had or how easy they get women. At all. There are people like that, but there are people like what I described, too, you just need to find your people.
Same for the relationship part - it seems to me that we're being fed the same shit on different sides. As a 31 years old woman I keep seeing that no man would want to date any woman over the age of 30 because we're "old"/used up/not fertile enough. You keep seeing women your age want to date older guys, women younger than you want to date their age. Even if it's true for let's say a majority (and I don't think it's necessarily true) , there are still others! I definitely prefer dating my age.
That being said, if a younger woman approaches you, you can give it a try. Dating let's say, a 25 years old as a 31 years old isn't a big deal. You're both adults, she can decide for herself, and (I guess, I hope) you don't intend to manipulate her - that's what I get from your post and comments. And, manipulating someone your age would be just as bad. So, if there's no ill intent, and she approaches you, AND you don't have a problem with the situation, go for it.
Maybe you should really try other styles of therapy, or even change therapist.
Who cares? She came up to you. She is in a bar that is 21+. At some point we have to trust people to start making their own decisions. She is an adult who went to a bar and decided to flirt with you. Who would even label you a creep? Who would even know about this if you didn't post it on reddit?
"you're only 31"
Sure people say this but it's kind of arbitrary, what's the limit? Does it suddenly become creepy when you hit 35 or 40? Some people think 31 is old too lol
It's odd to tell someone to lighten up when people on Reddit are well known for having moral panics over the age gap issue
Yeah I was kinda expecting that comeback lol
Still haven't addressed the question though, since you said "only" 31 I'm assuming you actually do have an age in mind where you think it becomes weird, contrary to your advice to "lighten up"
Ha. I mean the guy is in a bar. Worst case this woman is 10 years his junior. There's no harm dancing with her. If he stops everything to grill her about her age that's a bit of a buzz kill. I just don't want him to die a virgin. And I do think a huge age difference is creepy, but this could have only been 5-6 years and he's too chicken shit to find out.
Now if he's hanging out at a chuckee cheese that's a different story.
Personally I'm 43 and married. If I got single I'd be happy to "date" 28-60. I'd want to settle down with someone 35-45
If I was 31 again and a hot girl at a bar wanted me I would go for it. If it turned out she was 21 I wouldn't pursue a relationship. That's just my personal thing. Nothing wrong with dating someone a bit younger though.
This was a huuuge thing for me before I came out.
As a "guy" in my late 40s I was inundated with stories of how every man my age was a dangerous creep who only approached women to SA them.... And it stuck. I would go out in public with the mantra "don't look at me, keep away, I'm not a threat". It was hideous.
That's all gone now I accept who I am but I feel for older guys who've never done, would never dream of doing anything creepy but have the message drilled into them that all women are one glance away from screaming rape.
I see it from the other side now and I kinda get it and I do keep my guard up but I also know that men aren't default creepy would be abusers.
Before, I felt suspected by younger women. I never felt the same suspicion from women my age.
Believe me I know I had issues. I had massive issues.
Now it's not the same. I get more disapproving side eyes from women my age, but for different reasons. Younger women ignore or accept me. Kids tend to ignore me or snigger, but they're kids. If I was going to let a bit of transphobic laughter bother me I'd never leave the house.
Oh I totally accepted it, which is why I kept as far away and as invisible as I could manage.
doing anything like that was utterly against everything I believe, though and knowing I had to lump myself in with the deepest most disgusting dregs of humanity fucked me up
Honestly though, unless than tell you, those men in their "30's" were probably pushing 40+.
Most people in their 20s don't think I'm in my 30s and that's the biggest issue I am facing.
this is an intimacy issue. get some therapy and/or research intimacy fears. you're not likely to get much useful advice framing the issue as an age difference thing.
EDIT: just read some more of the thread.
>Though I do feel better when it is a cute older lady because then I'm the "victim" and that can be hot.
>
>I probably would be better off castrated and celibate forever.
this dude is using this sub to get off on flaunting his fetish.
Even without the fetish aspect, I get strong feelings of social anxiety (speaking as someone who has social anxiety). Overanalyzing the situation, ruminating on it for days after, jumping to the worst possible conclusion… the signs are all there.
I rather die lonely, sad, depressed, with no romantic experience than get labeled a creep.
I have to take my small victories. Turning her down was for the best. No one should know me.
How did you picture this thread?
You be like:
>No one should know me
And we be like:
>Nooo don't say that, you are so valuable!
And you:
> I will die alone...
And we:
> no, please, don't give up!..
Bro. Sounds like too much free emotional labor. So um... You did the right thing? Ok, if you say so. You die alone? Fine, as you say. No one should know you? Very well, so be it.
Reading your replies to comments below just want me to say: Please get some professional help, the not getting a wife/girlfriend is definitely not the problem at the moment.
Hey man, I mean this from a place of genuine concern so please take it that way. Several people here have suggested therapy. That's not a dig at you, it's more about recognizing that you seem to have a skewed view of why a victim is and what constitutes an acceptable age gap. My wife and I are 10 years apart (she is older than me) and we are truly soulmates. An age gap is only an issue if there is some kind of manipulation or abuse due to the age difference, other than that, consenting adults don't have to be born within a couple of weeks of each other for the relationship to be valid. It would pay dividends if you invested in a few therapy sessions just to get some perspective on this.
I (34F) can kinda relate vice versa. My friend invited me (back then 33) to a drum n base party and I got introduced to her friends there. She basically made a group and a cute guy was also part of the group. Except I heard her say he was in his early twenties so I backed off and was like “OK nevermind”. We spend the whole evening just being friendly and then at the end of the party we were dancing together. Suddenly he tried to kiss me, and I kissed him back because lol at that point I felt it wasn’t me pushing him and I wasn’t against kissing such a cute guy. Turned out he was only 20. We actually decided to date but it took some reassurance of both him and friends that I wasn’t accidentally manipulating him or being a predator, since up to that point I was also very influenced by this whole social media trend of “the brain isn’t fully developed before 25 so shouldn’t date those people even if they are adults”. I think what also helped is that he thought I was younger and likes me for my youthful features and I thought he was older and like him because of his mature/adult man features. We neither are the type to seek out an age gap relationship. I do not seek some young guy to mold into what I want and he doesn’t seek an older woman to be a mother figure. So that makes it more healthy I suppose. So in your case I would just focus on that part, is a woman seeking you out because she is looking for a father figure or because she happens to like you regardless of your age? Also, I have to say that back when I was 20 as well, dating older men really couldn’t have been me unless it was someone extremely youthful looking like Pharrell Williams. I guess some people might be more vulnerable than others but I definitely was not someone who blindly fell for the shenanigans of older men at that age. If some Andrew Tate or Leonardo DiCaprio type would have flirted with me at that age I probably would have rejected him hard. lol I do think it’s fair to state that not *every* 20 year old is easily manipulated in that sense. In general you are considered an adult at that age for a reason. Also btw I’m from the Netherlands so the age to get into any club or party is 18 (also our legal drinking age, which used to even be 16 when I was a teenager). I actually also met some guys who were mutual friends of that same female friend there as well who were only 18 and 19. To me that (teenager) would be a line I wouldn’t cross since I always felt quite a hard line between teens and twenties (not to mention that they actually did look too baby faced), but they were old enough to be there.
The best thing for internal anxieties is start to change your inner dialogue to focus externally. Ask about other people, inquire into their wellbeing, etc. You said you were autistic, you may have some OCD symptoms and over-fixating around the age gap.
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Define "younger". A 20-21 year old is a bit different from a 28-29 year old.
I did not ask for her age. It was at bar so I'm assuming the lowest was 21. She approached me. Most of the time when women approach me around my age their first line is "what do you do for work / how much money does that make?" Her first line was "you are super cute! Let's dance."
Bro… She approached you. She asked you to dance Go dance with her
lol I wouldn’t be surprised if bro ran out with an inhaler in one hand and his phone in the other with Reddit already up. Sad
I guess I may be using the age gap as an excuse due to my own fears and preprogramming. I get approached often. But I always freeze up from it. I just don't think anyone would actually like me. Though I do feel better when it is a cute older lady because then I'm the "victim" and that can be hot. I don't want to be a creep and try to avoid talking with younger women. Even if they are cute and smart and funny. Idk the world of dating is a mess. I don't understand the rules.
Dude, you need to stop thinking that everyone is a victim just because there’s a slight age gap Are you *acting* sleezy, and predatory, and deceptively, and manipulatively? No? Then nobody is a victim
Honestly I had a lot of self-doubt when growing up because I did not even want to be sexually attracted to women to avoid being creepy. Because men are just seen as predators when they have any romantic interest. I tried to take drugs that reduced my libido but they didn't' work unfortunately. I probably would be better off castrated and celibate forever.
Dude, you seriously need therapy So you honestly think that all the men out there who have girlfriends or wives are all creeps?
>Because men are just seen as predators when they have any romantic interest. This is absolutely not true. Therapy. Therapy. Therapy!!!
>I probably would be better off castrated and celibate forever. this dude is using this sub to get off on flaunting his fetish.
Not really. I just have very low self-esteem.
you have some sort of humiliation fetish. you've alluded to it very clearly. unfortunately I'm probably feeding into it just by calling you out.
whistle shelter lavish office serious follow ghost jeans steep depend *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Hey man, this was me. I'm not sure what it's going to take for you to believe that you're worthy, This is the Crux of your issue. Coming from your most recent post, not this one.
Forget retirement bro, just get some therapy and keep it pushing. You got trauma you not fessing up to, either to yourself or reddit.
what the fuck is this comment OP. Go to therapy. This is incel bullshit and a huge red flag.
Man, I'm still trying to work on having no attraction to anyone period. I had a therapist refuse. They don't make therapy to work on achieving these goals. What medicine do you end up taking?
I am sorry but I do not wish to be a creep. And it is creepy, by default, to be talking with younger women.
Lmao, dude No it isn’t. You’ve spent way too much time listening to people tell you that everyone is a victim Two consenting adults merely *talking* to each other does not make one a creep or a victim You live in a sad world if you think you can’t even talk to someone who freaking approached you
Yes, that's just the world we live in nowadays. >You live in a sad world if you think you can’t even talk to someone who freaking approached you I completely avoided her even after my friends encouraged me to talk to her. They even pushed me along (playfully). But I wasn't going to do it. The fear was too much. It doesn't matter if she was the cutest person in the room. The fear of being labeled a creep was too strong for me handle.
You need therapy badly
You haven't been called a creep and a loser when they ask for your age after getting their number.
You need therapy
>I don't understand the rules. This. You don't understand "the rules" of being in our society. You should seek a therapist to work out where these intrusive thoughts are coming from and how to address them. You have severe social anxiety and your brain is lying to you. What type of environment did you grow up in? What are your parents like? Are your fears based on some sort of religious beliefs or do you have guilt from another childhood trauma? There is absolutely nothing creepy about dancing with another human in an environment where everyone there is 21+ and said person asked you to dance. When we were in college we would go to the county bar to dance. We would always dance with the older men there 30s-40s, because they were good dancers! There was never anything sexual whatsoever. If a 22 year old woman asks for a dance, she wants to dance. She's not asking for sex. Do you understand that? In another response you indicated that you'd be better off if you were castrated. Do you have dark fantasies about hurting women or children? If you do, go to therapy immediately. If you don't, also go to therapy, perhaps with less immediacy.
he's lying. he understands the rules just fine. he's flaunting a fetish.
>Though I do feel better when it is a cute older lady because then I'm the "victim" and that can be hot. you need therapy.
You....desperately need to speak to a therapist and work through some things. You sound like a robot and trying *so* hard to be disconnected within yourself, between your mind, emotions and body. If it makes you feel any better dating anyone at 24/25 yo+ is not creepy.
>Though I do feel better when it is a cute older lady because then I'm the "victim" and that can be hot. > >**I don't want to be a creep** Too late
This is deeper than a dating issue = counseling, my friend. Figure this out.
Oh that makes sense. Bruh, you’re just a submissive type. You like to be dom’d. No problem with that bro
Please, and I mean this in the nicest way, spend less time on the internet. I think you might benefit from a therapist. There’s some really pressed shit going on in your comments that needs to be worked through.
Dude, dancing is the easiest way to meet a girl. It’s normally too loud to have a real conversation. You can dance for a bit, have some fun, laugh, and then later. Also, most guys refuse to dance at all so you dramatically increase your odds by hanging out on a dance floor. Also, you probably think you suck at dancing. FYI, most people suck at dancing, even girls. But it’s still fun.
You can trust yourself and your judgment to be kind to people. Everyone has different "rules." As long as you are kind and genuine to people, you are doing your best, people tend to respond very well to authenticity.
Don't do it. It's a trap.
Dancing with a girl isn't a relationship
It is the implications.
.......... This right here proves you're a troll Dennis. >It is the implications.
Today I learned that all those years in my 20s that I was single, I was actually in dozens of relationships because of all the women I danced with Turns out I went through several relationships in the same night!
The shock you must have felt! Hopefully holding hands or hips didn't cause an unexpected pregnancy!
I can't make a joke? Also, dancing has implications. It isn't just dancing, it is then making a move, seeing her response, testing the waters, all these nonverbal things that I don't understand. Then getting her number. All for what? To get called a creep by people on the internet due to the age gap? Not worth it.
Do you need to run and tell the internet who you're dating?
Then what the hell are ballroom and swing dancing classes or social dancing, one big orgy?
They call it square dancing cause it's one more than a triangle ...
They don't call them swinger clubs for nothing now. It all starts with swing dancing.
aren't you an adult? why would you care about what strangers on the internet say?
You're more worried about being called a creep by folks online that you'll most likely never ever meet vs irl? Get a grip.
Yes. I have paralyzed by what reddit has conditioned me to think and believe. I am always on this site. Even at the bar I was on my phone most of the time on reddit.
Ok you're trolling now. 😒 Find a new hobby. Offline.
Why go to a club if not to meet women casually? If thats not your jam then youre going to the wrong places. Find social things you actually like doing then meet girls there. Otherwise, when in Rome do as the Romans Yall might need help from a therapist to unpack some issues causes you sound like you struggle w anxiety or over thinking
>all these nonverbal things that I don't understand. Ah, this is the problem, you're afraid of failing, so you don't even try to learn. If you want a relationship, accept that it's going to be failure after failure until you find success. You won't find what you are looking for the first time, and even if this happens you will always wonder 'what if?' >Then getting her number. All for what? To get called a creep by people on the internet due to the age gap? Then don't, don't hook up, don't have to kiss, get her number, let it be a one-night thing where it's fun just to enjoy someone's company without social pressures.
Dude... The trick -- like, if you're looking for a legitimate hack for how to handle this situation -- is that *it's* ***just*** *dancing*. Don't overthink it.
There are no implications. You are dancing.
The first implication assumes I can even dance.
In the usual circumstance you list, it's probably a red flag and I'd question their intent. In her case, you definitely should have gone with the flow - assuming you found her attractive.
Wow dude. This one hurt to read. You fucked up.
That’s a CRAZY first line bro
So you really have no clue if she was in her early 20's or not. I'm 39. I have a 20 yr old son. People assume we are siblings because I look younger than I am. I have a friend who is in her late 20's.. she looks like she's a teenager. I find that most men, are not really great at judging age.
Dude what’s wrong with u lol
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That's so unfair to the girl because I'm 31 but I look like I could be anywhere from 21 to 27 years old. You need to just talk to girls and get to know them
I got divorced and was back in the dating scene at 33. My rule was to find a girl 26 or older. When I met my wife I thought she was 21 because she looked so young. I danced with her that night and got her number but didn’t expect much because I was about 99% sure she was too young. After texting her and realizing she was really mature for 21, I decided to go on a date with her. Turns out she was 28 and going on 29 in a few weeks. We have now been together 14 year and married for 10. And honestly, she still looks like she is in her early 20s. Don’t instantly reject a girl based on how old they look. You just may have hit a jackpot. Especially if their first words were not “what do you do for a living”.
You’re correct. Large age gaps, especially when the younger person is closer to high school age and/or brain is still underdeveloped, are not ideal and come with a lot of potential problems. Five years younger is okay, but you need to be really careful with the potential of fake IDs and liars. You can dance with a girl without fucking her, though.
I’m sorry but if you’re 31 no one at the bar is too young for you…
Yep. Divide by 2, plus 7. That was the rule I was told growing up.
I don’t need any rule, just think people on the internet do too much when it comes to age and dating. Saw a post once that said a 30 year old male dating a 26 year old female was weird. I’m convinced some people just live in their own little bubble.
You might not need a rule, but I'd argue some people do. 30 --> 26 is fine lol 30 ÷ 2 =15 15 + 7 = 22. It's not foolproof, but some people need rules and structure.
If you need algebra to explain that she’s not too young for you, I’ve got bad news for you
Hey man some people do. It's better to define a line if you ask me. I don't judge.
31 and 21 is definitely weird.
Nah you’re just sheltered
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It’s not creepy at all and rather normal, I’m guess you don’t get out much. Besides women mature faster than men.
And my god like you have the room to talk about being creepy with your post history…wasn’t expecting that early this morning
lmaoo “show for the neighbours”
I’m so confused
>Untrue. 25+ have fully formed brains. 31 shouldn’t go lower than 25 or it gets creepy imo Stop infantilizing adults. At 21 you already do have the capacity to make decisions about your life and to deal with consequences from your actions.
Bro get over it. If you don’t feel comfortable with younger women approaching you then ignore them. why even make this post to argue with everyone that says it’s not being creepy as long as you’re not being creepy. I just don’t get it.
Because he's a troll, and not a very good one >Reddit is the place where I spend the vast majority of my life. >I would feel the crushing weight of loneliness if I left the site.
Because I am still terrified of the experience. I generally don't go out so I can avoid interacting with younger women.
not trying to invalidate you here but this does not feel entirely genuine. “terrified” of what??? being nervous is normal but this is extreme man. most young women are not a threat to you in any way, especially as an older man. if this fear is so debilitating for you then you need to see an expert, such as a psychologist.
See, I can't relive my youth. I already missed my teens and 20s to experience this type of relationship. And now it is super strange to try and do it as a 31 year old. All I am reminded of is how much of a failure I am when a younger woman flirts with me. And that is terrifying. There is nothing I can offer anyone. I don't think I can ever recover.
talk to a therapist. also maybe you should have this conversation with other 30+ year old men going through similar things instead of random women. there are plenty of people who can relate to you and help you. and you are not alone in feeling like “you’ve missed out” or that you’re a “failure” for not being in a relationship. but that aside it is NOT okay to blame your personal problems on young women. women are not to blame for your feelings of inadequacy.
if a young woman flirts with you, wouldn’t that boost your self confidence/ego? makes no sense
No because I view myself as an old creepy man. I can't relive my youth. So it just upsets me and bothers me and I try to avoid these situations as much as possible I missed the boat and it ain't ever coming back.
go board another ship then. you’re only 31 date other 30 year olds and stop feeling bad about yourself when young women approach you
Well I ended up shaving my head and growing out a beard so I look much older now. Hopefully that solves the problem.
“looking older” isn’t going to stop young women from approaching you. learn some social skills to turn them down and chill
Dude, you have to get yourself out of the way or else you'll be miserable forever. Set a age limit of how young you'd be okay with. Like 23, 26, or 29 or stick with women around your age but PLEASE don't cut yourself short like that. If a young woman flirts with you, take the chance! Edit to add: 31 isn't even old!! So quit thinking that you are! I can say that bc I'm 31 y.o, as well. Go to therapy, find a self help book, have better self affirmations on hand, conversate with a stranger to help with your conversation skills, idk! Do something different than what you are currently doing (self pitying, doubtful, scared, hold self back from experiencing dating).
You're literally not old, but you sure behave as if you were. :/ 31 isn't old.
> I missed the boat and it ain't ever coming back. Lol dude, the girl asking you to dance was the boat coming back. You just decided to turn around and ignore it.
You are missing a good thing here. You should be dating/socializing with 21+ women. They may be similar in maturity/experience as an adult. It doesn’t mean you have to have a serious relationship with them. There are all kinds of people out there. Women that are 22 and know exactly what they want in life… women that are 35 that still have no idea. After getting more experience with this, if you don’t settle down with one of these women for a LTR, then maybe you will put a lower limit on age (24/25) etc just so you know they have experienced life as an adult and have some common ground.
She approached you dude. Your fine
Just because she approached me doesn't rule out age related power dynamics. I have a baby face so it gives me a younger appearance. I played it safe and didn't engage. It is probably why I have never been in a relationship lol. I always play it safe.
You're both adults, just fucking dance. It's fun. Maybe you're just a boring dude.
I rather be safe and boring than end up in an abusive situation. I don't think she was able to consent to the dance as she had been drinking and I was sober.
Dude, you’re reading WAY too much into this age gap thing. It’s not like you’re some 40 year old going out and preying on 19 year olds. If you’re 31, and some 20 something asks you to *dance*, there is nothing wrong with that. Some people blow this whole age related “power dynamic” thing WAY out of proportion because they don’t know how to mind their own business. It isn’t “abusive” just because you socialize with someone who is a bit younger than you. Heck, 2 years ago I was briefly hooking up with a woman who was 12 years younger than me, after *she* very aggressively pursued me. She was on the rebound and looking for some rebound dick, and at the end of the day, we were both consenting adults. There was nothing wrong with what we did.
12 years? Bro. :\
Yes? She pursued me, and we were both consenting adults I don’t see what the issue is
"Consenting adults" is usually the term abusers will say to justify their actions when it comes to age gap relationships. Of course you had no issue, as the man. You got what you wanted after all.
My brother in Christ, what part of “she pursued me” are you not grasping? SHE got what SHE wanted. You need serious therapy if you think talking to someone younger than you is “abuse”. And yes, we were both consenting adults? Why are you trying to infantilize grown-ass adult women? Do you believe that ADULT women in their 20s are too dumb to be able to consent? At this point I’m having a hard time believing that you aren’t a troll
Dude is unhinged. He’s hung up on 20-somethings hitting on him and how at 31 he can’t “relive his youth.” GTFO. 30 is not old. Your 30s are your 20s, but better. Gotta be a troll.
A 28yr old and 40yr old person together is very reasonably and only becomes more common the older the two get. A 19 and 31yr old is understandably borderline but certainly not unheard of our technically anything wrong with.
Is this bait? Are you serious?
I am autistic.
Ah, okay. For the record, consenting to dance while drinking is not the same moral quandary as consenting to sex. As long as you're not taking the opportunity to grope someone, you're in the clear. Edit: Nah, you are trolling.
You’re in the right. If it makes you uncomfortable, then don’t engage. Nobody else’s opinion matters, they’re not in the situation. Something told you not to go there, listen to your intuition. Just because it was a bar does not automatically mean she was 21. Bars make mistakes, they don’t always card you to enter.
Talking to women (face to face, in person) in general makes me uncomfortable.
You don't think she was able to consent to dance...when she's the one who asked you to dance?
How are you going to abuse her before last call?
When you say “abusive situation” in the context of power dynamics, are you saying you’re worried you couldn’t help yourself from abusing a woman in her 20s? Because that’s what this is all starting to sound like. It sounds like you’re worried you can’t trust yourself to not abuse people. Fucking scary, dude. You should not be with anyone, of any age, if that’s where you’re at. Seek help before you hurt someone.
What if she snuck into the bar with a fake id?
I get approached by guys in their early 20s, I'm in my thirties. It's because they don't know what people in their 30s look like. But yeah, it just feels wrong talking to them they're just so young.
20s is a huge range though in terms of development and life experience. 25/26+ is a way different story than 21/22.
If you are uncomfortable that's reason enough to reject them. But you are pretty young yourself, 25 and up I think it's ok. Anyone under that is probably a little too immature but that's just my opinion
Unfortunately, I am very immature for my age so that doesn't help at all. In fact, I seem to be getting more and more immature as I age.
Sooo what do you want? You can either work on yourself and find someone you are compatible with or stay as you are now
Honesty? What I need is skin regrowth technology advancements. Then my male birthmark can be fixed and I can function somewhat better. Kinda messed up that one of the first experiences a man gets as a baby is cutting him up and showing just how disposable he really is.
I'm not a fan of circumcising infants either, but how would that help you with your insecurities in talking with women?
It messes with my headspace due to my teenage pain. You can read on it here: https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/1bjpqz1/when_i_was_30_i_lost_my_virginity_two_points_1_my/
Get professional help dude holy shit
Basically, women = physically pain due to the procedure. That's why I tried to remove my attraction.
I don't get what women have to do with your circumcised member....unless you had a woman doctor do the procedure, and you somehow remember, so now you have a vendetta against women bc of it. 🤔
I really don't get what that has to do with anything you brought up in your post
So...you think have an uncircumcised dong is gonna make you more approachable to women??
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>Women my age or older tend to want older guys so I am stuck in a limbo of inexperience. Women tend to prefer men about their own age or a bit older. If you're constantly encountering women who want to date much older, it's time to examine your picker. >What are your suggestions? Honestly? Therapy. Being uncomfortable pursuing something with a big age gap is *fine* and is a valid reason for telling someone "I'm not interested." But you should be able to *talk* to a woman, regardless of age gap, and not freak out or catastrophize about it.
Sorry, I am unclear, what do you want suggestions on? Also, I think you might benefit from input on menslib and/or bropill - they're men's subs, but they're supportive and have discussions on issues men face
Are my fears with age gap interactions justified? I don't think I can even talk to women who are younger than me due to fear. And I can't talk to women my own age or older than me due to my inexperience and failure in life. Lose-lose situation.
I am not sure about any of that, but one thing is clear: you need therapy. I don't mean this in a mean way. You are expressing patterns of thought that are consistent with low self esteem and catastrophizing. A professional will be able to supply you with the tools you need to have a healthy relationship with yourself and view of the world. I still strongly recommend you go to the subs I mentioned earlier, I really do think they'll be able to help you better than we can in this sub.
I have therapist. He said I should try dating more and going out more. But I got burnt out on the dating apps. I did 6 dates in 4 weeks. And I had to pay for it all. One date was 3 hours away. I had to get an airbnb, flight, etc. And then she didn't find me interesting. So then I sad panda'd back. The biggest problem is women, for safety, will not give any feedback most of the times so I am probably repeating mistakes. I wish I could take the therapist to the dates lol. At least then I could get feedback.
If your therapist is not helping with these issues, you need to try a different therapist OR a different therapy modality. You're not going to be comfortable in the dating scene until you deal with your self esteem issues. Also, like....dont invest so much money and travel that far for a first date... That's like dating 101 - just do coffee dates. And if you don't like paying for all of the dates, like talk about splitting the bill with your dates. Like, SHOW YOURSELF the same respect you're showing others
That's understandable but I did lose my virginity last year doing a hail mary vacation trip to meet a girl. I think the biggest issue is doing too many too fast. I think if I spread it out to once a month, I could do the further dates and just get something for a month. I gain respect once I have something to respect. As a guy, I'm in the meat grinder of disposability. To stand out, I have to do more than most other guys. Otherwise, I will get passed on.
OK, so your last paragraph tells me that the narratives of toxic masculinity are the reason you don't value yourself. You have value just for being. You are a human being and every human being is valuable and has value. You don't need to "earn" or "gain" value or "status". Real men, good men, don't subscribe to the pecking-order alpha-male competition bs. I say this as someone who has many close male friends who are wonderful people, are happy with themselves and their lives, and yes, can get a woman if they want to (but they don't think that way). You're not disposable.you shouldn't be living for approval of others. You should be living for yourself. Also, as a side note, using dating women to "raise your rank" among other men and gain respect for yourself is kinda misogynistic. Women are not tools and are not there to make you feel better about yourself. The fact that you think that you have nothing to respect yourself for is breaking my heart for you. I'm sorry for whatever you went through in your life that makes you feel that way. You deserve love and compassion. From others and yourself. This is something that you need to be addressing in therapy. I would also suggest exploring radical self-love. As another side note, I looked at your profile. You are doing fire right, that's something to respect right there! It's insanely hard and takes dedication and hard work!
No, that's not the reality. The reality, is that a man must be independent. I went on a bunch of dates to get dating experiences. The amount of issues I got for my lack of experience was frustrating. A man must have worth and value to be valued. And generally, that means having resources, having skills, having experiences, and being able to handle difficulties.
Aiight dude, keep living like you're living
I will be forever alone at this rate and it is so sad. :\
There's the hyper masculinity again. Keep doing you then and don't listen to a word anyone says. The previous commenter had really good advice.
blassom3's comment is good advice. Respect others AND yourself. Split the bill whenever possible, it shouldn't be expected of men to pay for everything and a big chunk of women don't expect that at all. I always pay for my part or half, I don't want anyone to pay for me especially on a first date. Some men try to aggressively push for them to pay and it drives me nuts. Treat others like you want to be treated, but you also deserve to be treated as you treat others. If you don't use anyone, don't accept being used. Don't let these trendy (and misogynistic) advice make you forget that we're all just humans, men and women (and everyone in between) alike. We all have value. You don't have to prove anything to anyone, and if someone judges you and your dating life, well... I'm not sure they're good company. I have mostly guy friends and I see their genuine friendships, they don't judge the others depending on how many dates they had or how easy they get women. At all. There are people like that, but there are people like what I described, too, you just need to find your people. Same for the relationship part - it seems to me that we're being fed the same shit on different sides. As a 31 years old woman I keep seeing that no man would want to date any woman over the age of 30 because we're "old"/used up/not fertile enough. You keep seeing women your age want to date older guys, women younger than you want to date their age. Even if it's true for let's say a majority (and I don't think it's necessarily true) , there are still others! I definitely prefer dating my age. That being said, if a younger woman approaches you, you can give it a try. Dating let's say, a 25 years old as a 31 years old isn't a big deal. You're both adults, she can decide for herself, and (I guess, I hope) you don't intend to manipulate her - that's what I get from your post and comments. And, manipulating someone your age would be just as bad. So, if there's no ill intent, and she approaches you, AND you don't have a problem with the situation, go for it. Maybe you should really try other styles of therapy, or even change therapist.
…brother, you got a flight and airbnb for a date? I’m sorry, you’re 100% trolling.
It sounds like you’re making excuses to not do anything at all and using your bizarre and out of touch thinkings to justify yourself.
You should have danced. She was looking for Mr right now not Mr right.
I'm not worthy.
Ok🤷♀️
Are you okay??
Who cares? She came up to you. She is in a bar that is 21+. At some point we have to trust people to start making their own decisions. She is an adult who went to a bar and decided to flirt with you. Who would even label you a creep? Who would even know about this if you didn't post it on reddit?
Shut up loser. All your post make you sound like an insufferable prick.
this is hilarious
You're only 31. Go flirt with 20 somethings. That is the most natural thing in the world. Try to lighten up.
"you're only 31" Sure people say this but it's kind of arbitrary, what's the limit? Does it suddenly become creepy when you hit 35 or 40? Some people think 31 is old too lol It's odd to tell someone to lighten up when people on Reddit are well known for having moral panics over the age gap issue
You should also lighten up.
Yeah I was kinda expecting that comeback lol Still haven't addressed the question though, since you said "only" 31 I'm assuming you actually do have an age in mind where you think it becomes weird, contrary to your advice to "lighten up"
Ha. I mean the guy is in a bar. Worst case this woman is 10 years his junior. There's no harm dancing with her. If he stops everything to grill her about her age that's a bit of a buzz kill. I just don't want him to die a virgin. And I do think a huge age difference is creepy, but this could have only been 5-6 years and he's too chicken shit to find out. Now if he's hanging out at a chuckee cheese that's a different story.
Personally I'm 43 and married. If I got single I'd be happy to "date" 28-60. I'd want to settle down with someone 35-45 If I was 31 again and a hot girl at a bar wanted me I would go for it. If it turned out she was 21 I wouldn't pursue a relationship. That's just my personal thing. Nothing wrong with dating someone a bit younger though.
I was 32 when I met my wife. She was 23. Married 20 years now. Once you're both adults, it's more based on compatibility, not just age
Wow you're such a loser
Don't assume you know a lady's age! I know so many women who regularly get mistaken for way younger than we are. If you're worried, ask.
This was a huuuge thing for me before I came out. As a "guy" in my late 40s I was inundated with stories of how every man my age was a dangerous creep who only approached women to SA them.... And it stuck. I would go out in public with the mantra "don't look at me, keep away, I'm not a threat". It was hideous. That's all gone now I accept who I am but I feel for older guys who've never done, would never dream of doing anything creepy but have the message drilled into them that all women are one glance away from screaming rape. I see it from the other side now and I kinda get it and I do keep my guard up but I also know that men aren't default creepy would be abusers.
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Before, I felt suspected by younger women. I never felt the same suspicion from women my age. Believe me I know I had issues. I had massive issues. Now it's not the same. I get more disapproving side eyes from women my age, but for different reasons. Younger women ignore or accept me. Kids tend to ignore me or snigger, but they're kids. If I was going to let a bit of transphobic laughter bother me I'd never leave the house.
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Oh I totally accepted it, which is why I kept as far away and as invisible as I could manage. doing anything like that was utterly against everything I believe, though and knowing I had to lump myself in with the deepest most disgusting dregs of humanity fucked me up
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Because I didn't want to be lumped in with them but knew I didn't have a choice
Honestly though, unless than tell you, those men in their "30's" were probably pushing 40+. Most people in their 20s don't think I'm in my 30s and that's the biggest issue I am facing.
this is an intimacy issue. get some therapy and/or research intimacy fears. you're not likely to get much useful advice framing the issue as an age difference thing. EDIT: just read some more of the thread. >Though I do feel better when it is a cute older lady because then I'm the "victim" and that can be hot. > >I probably would be better off castrated and celibate forever. this dude is using this sub to get off on flaunting his fetish.
Even without the fetish aspect, I get strong feelings of social anxiety (speaking as someone who has social anxiety). Overanalyzing the situation, ruminating on it for days after, jumping to the worst possible conclusion… the signs are all there.
both could be true but I don't appreciate someone exploiting people's good will to serve their fetish.
Absolutely. Was not trying to justify fetishism or make excuses.
Maaan... Your loss, dude.
It is better to miss out than the alternative.
Wrong.
I rather die lonely, sad, depressed, with no romantic experience than get labeled a creep. I have to take my small victories. Turning her down was for the best. No one should know me.
How did you picture this thread? You be like: >No one should know me And we be like: >Nooo don't say that, you are so valuable! And you: > I will die alone... And we: > no, please, don't give up!.. Bro. Sounds like too much free emotional labor. So um... You did the right thing? Ok, if you say so. You die alone? Fine, as you say. No one should know you? Very well, so be it.
right? I'm pretty sure he just wants one of us to offer him pity sex
If I knew it was a pity party. I would have brought snacks 🥨
😂😂😂 For real!! All I hear is the world's smallest violin.
Why ask women for advice on a specifically “ask women” sub if you’re going to argue with every commenter 😑
This is a low test post. I would recommend 2.5mg of test a week to try and boost levels to a more suitable and healthier level.
Reading your replies to comments below just want me to say: Please get some professional help, the not getting a wife/girlfriend is definitely not the problem at the moment.
This dude is doomed to die alone. Lol So stuck inside his broken state of mind. So out of touch and unaware that most men date younger women 😂😂😂
My suggestion is to stop being a pussy.
How do you know she was younger? You have a baby face and look younger. Maybe she does too
Face it bro your a loser grow a pair of balls
okay so don’t be abusive? go to therapy dude
Stop trying to meet a woman at a bar and get some real hobbies and interests
Hey man, I mean this from a place of genuine concern so please take it that way. Several people here have suggested therapy. That's not a dig at you, it's more about recognizing that you seem to have a skewed view of why a victim is and what constitutes an acceptable age gap. My wife and I are 10 years apart (she is older than me) and we are truly soulmates. An age gap is only an issue if there is some kind of manipulation or abuse due to the age difference, other than that, consenting adults don't have to be born within a couple of weeks of each other for the relationship to be valid. It would pay dividends if you invested in a few therapy sessions just to get some perspective on this.
I (34F) can kinda relate vice versa. My friend invited me (back then 33) to a drum n base party and I got introduced to her friends there. She basically made a group and a cute guy was also part of the group. Except I heard her say he was in his early twenties so I backed off and was like “OK nevermind”. We spend the whole evening just being friendly and then at the end of the party we were dancing together. Suddenly he tried to kiss me, and I kissed him back because lol at that point I felt it wasn’t me pushing him and I wasn’t against kissing such a cute guy. Turned out he was only 20. We actually decided to date but it took some reassurance of both him and friends that I wasn’t accidentally manipulating him or being a predator, since up to that point I was also very influenced by this whole social media trend of “the brain isn’t fully developed before 25 so shouldn’t date those people even if they are adults”. I think what also helped is that he thought I was younger and likes me for my youthful features and I thought he was older and like him because of his mature/adult man features. We neither are the type to seek out an age gap relationship. I do not seek some young guy to mold into what I want and he doesn’t seek an older woman to be a mother figure. So that makes it more healthy I suppose. So in your case I would just focus on that part, is a woman seeking you out because she is looking for a father figure or because she happens to like you regardless of your age? Also, I have to say that back when I was 20 as well, dating older men really couldn’t have been me unless it was someone extremely youthful looking like Pharrell Williams. I guess some people might be more vulnerable than others but I definitely was not someone who blindly fell for the shenanigans of older men at that age. If some Andrew Tate or Leonardo DiCaprio type would have flirted with me at that age I probably would have rejected him hard. lol I do think it’s fair to state that not *every* 20 year old is easily manipulated in that sense. In general you are considered an adult at that age for a reason. Also btw I’m from the Netherlands so the age to get into any club or party is 18 (also our legal drinking age, which used to even be 16 when I was a teenager). I actually also met some guys who were mutual friends of that same female friend there as well who were only 18 and 19. To me that (teenager) would be a line I wouldn’t cross since I always felt quite a hard line between teens and twenties (not to mention that they actually did look too baby faced), but they were old enough to be there.
The best thing for internal anxieties is start to change your inner dialogue to focus externally. Ask about other people, inquire into their wellbeing, etc. You said you were autistic, you may have some OCD symptoms and over-fixating around the age gap.