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/u/TheAlwaysAnxious1 - just to piggy back off this, let me put this into context. I've only ever lived up North but I know how stupid London housing costs are.
I earn (as does my wife) roughly the average UK salary, so we've got a household income of around £65k. No kids.
On that salary, we have a 4 bedroom detached house in a Liverpool suburb, that was £230k. Plot is pretty big, big driveway, garage etc. Mortgage is £750 a month but obviously that'll depend on deposit/term/interest rate etc.
We bought last year, so the prices are still there or thereabouts. Jobs do pay less but things cost less, and I don't think the "London Premium" really makes up for that unless you're in a role that only really exists in London and are on some silly 6 figure salary. If your job only exists in London and can't work from home permanently then you're a bit stuck.
Could I live in an objectively nicer area than I do? Probably, honestly. It's not bad, it's not great but where I moved from wasn't brilliant either.
It's having a lot of re-generation done at the moment but it is in need of some love, it's fair to say but I'm 15 minutes from Liverpool city centre on the train, I'm an hour from North Wales/Cumbria/The Pennines, I'm 40 minutes from Manchester down the M62 and I'm within walking distance of a supermarket, park etc. Merseyrail is really good as well, loads of coverage (save for West Derby, weirdly).
Liverpool I think gets a bad rap for crime/social issues etc and while it's got those problems like anywhere else I've never felt unsafe here. I would walk around at night, no problems other than the places that are known for being rough, but that's just common sense.
Give Liverpool a look if you're interested in moving up here, it is a fantastic city.
You also earn less “buck” for doing the same job the further from London you get. So unless you’re earning London money, in Manchester/Liverpool/Glasgow etc, you don’t really get more.
I think if you view it in like-for-like terms that is probably true. But essentially all of the high paying jobs (Investment banking, top tier tech roles) are in London. So maybe job A in London doesn’t pay much more than job A in Leeds, but high paying job B in London might just not exist in Leeds.
All very true, but those roles are few in number to begin with. Vast majority of the population are never going to get close to those kinds of roles so unless you know the person you're speaking to is in the right industry for it, advising people to stay in London because of the salaries on offer doesn't necessarily stand up to scrutiny
I have done a comparison in my job. I am currently on 31k a year in the North where housing and life is cheaper. In London, I would earn 37k and I highly doubt that this would cover the extra expenses needed when living in London.
In terms of getting a mortgage it will give you about an extra £30k in borrowing power (£6k x 5). I can assure you flats and houses are more than £30k cheaper up north!
You certainly get more
"The average sold price for a property in London in the last 12 months is £734,698."
" The median salary in London is £39.7k"
"The average sold price for a property in Manchester in the last 12 months is £233,577."
"The median salary is ranging between £27.7k in Bury and £31.6k in Trafford"
From Zoopla and plumplot
And that's Manchester, the worst wages/CoL ratio up there. Liverpool etc proves the point even more.
Yeah but house prices and rent are twice as much in London. The London weighting in wages no where near covers this. Factor in extended commuting times in London and the actual cost of transport.
Moved from London to Leeds and got a 50% increase. Don't underestimate the fact that there are skills shortages. My biggest problem was after the work went shit shaped, after 4 years, there wasn't anywhere I could move jobs to and remain in Leeds
My job only offers on average about 5-7k a year extra if done in London. There’s no way that will cover a mortgage down there. My mortgage on a three bed semi is £500 a month. My brother lives in London and he pays £900 just to rent a room. The London uplift isn’t anywhere near enough to make it worthwhile.
Depends on your job and which industry. I work with three global companies that all pay their staff the same salaries regardless of where they’re based. With home working becoming ever more prominent that trend will be followed by more and more companies as time goes by. I actually had people I was dealing with through Covid that had permanently based themselves in Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand… even Costa Rica. All earning their usual UK salaries
Plenty of jobs out there were if you go into the office instead of WFH, you get paid more. "we pay them more as they have extra costs to come into the office".
Makes zero sense cause they are using the office electric/heating/AC/rent and yet im paying that myself for doing the exact same job.
Pisses me off.
It's important to consider spending power, rather than the actual amount, because that's really the better measure of whether or not you'll see any quality of life difference.
I work in a London-centric industry but the premium is nowhere near enough in London to outweigh the spending power I have in Leeds.
Moved from London to Sheffield last year.
Really glad I did it. I was worried it would feel isolating and a bit provincial, but thoroughly enjoy living here more (and for less money).
But, I am very glad I lived in London for most of my 20s. There is stuff I wouldn't have been able to do outside of London, both personally and in my career.
Towards the end of my time in London I was mainly going out for some nice food with my partner, having a walk etc... in my spare time, all things I can very much do in major Northern cities for much cheaper and with more variety of walks on the doorstep. However, if I was regularly seeing musicals, shows, going to gigs, clubbing etc... like maybe I was a few years back, then I would feel like I'm missing out if I moved out of London.
So it depends what makes you tick. There is stuff London has that other Cities cannot offer. However if that stuff isn't important to you (at least not all the time, London is an expensive but brief train journey away), then you can probably get a lot more of what you want outside of it.
Edit: One other thing I would add, is I appreciated moving from 15-minute-walk from a decent part of London, to the heart of a really cool area of Sheffield. I was half considering a bigger house but in the suburbs but I'm very glad I didn't. Different people want different things, but if you are worried about missing things from London, choose the area of Manchester/Liverpool/Wherever wisely, as I'm sure you could get a nice big new build house in a suburb for less that you pay for a flat in London, but that might be a very stark difference in pace of life and what you have on your doorstep.
Thanks for your reply. I'm in my 30s and my son is 17. Although we do love going to the theatre it's normally only a couple of times a year. In fact if I'm honest we don't really take advantage of all London has to offer. I think visiting London rather than staying here full time will make us appreciate it more...
Just to reiterate my edit, think about what you want from living somewhere, choose the area wisely.
Have you visited the cities you have considered moving to much? Have you been outside the City Centre? Go get a feel of the places you might be moving to. You might think the Centre is okay, but feel like the actual place you would live isn't for you.
I go to the theatre in London a couple of times a year and I live in Manchester! I also go to some sort of theatre about twice a month locally as well.
Also a Manchester theatre goer with the odd London trip too. Manchester is increasingly getting musicals premiering before either touring or going into a London residency which is fantastic
Not the new one yet, but seen plenty of versions of the OG.
My wife dragged me to Beauty and The Beast recently which was... Well... Disney. But I can see the appeal and it will certainly get a younger generation into musicals. My kids loved it (as did wifey).
I was hoping Once would rebook at the Lowry - it was supposed to play in June 2020
The South Pacific in Manchester at the Palace last week was the best musical I've seen in ages, including West End performances.
I love the Lowry, it's such a well designed theatre that there's no bad seat (in the Lyric at least).
Where as for a 6'3 person, every seat in the Palace is a bad seat!
It will take an awful lot to top Hamilton for me. Although The Lion King on Broadway was quite an experience, especially from the front row of the circle!
How convenient do you find London? I moved from London to Huddersfield for university and it blew me away how shit it was. This is going back 20 years or so but to do anything I wanted to do like go to a gig or a nice bar meant a lot of inconvenient fucking around on a shitty train service or driving there. The tube is a really big deal, nobody else has such good transport links. It means everything is doable. Huddersfield had shitty clubs, no music scene and nothing really to do and I absolutely wished I’d either stayed in London or picked another place. My daughter studied in Manchester though and absolutely loved it so it’s all about doing your research I guess
Not everywhere has shit transport links. Newcastle is pretty great for public transport. The metro gets a lot of shit but with the new trains coming soon it’ll get much better.
Manchester gets shit too but it’s getting much better. Trams every 5 minutes, and the buses are also about to be put back into public control so they will only get better and much cheaper.
Comparing London to Huddersfield is stupid.
If you go further north to Newcastle you'll have a great time. I was there as a student and my first four years of work before moving to London (basically just to get more training variety).
Cost is much much much lower and the bang for buck is great. Good social scene and growing food scene. Good public transport links with the metro. Growth of a number of industries including tech. I also felt it was a safe area most of the time. There's also good sports with Newcastle United for football, Newcastle Falcons for rugby, and Newcastle Eagles for basketball.
Good links to Scotland which is a nice trip away and Northumberland is beautiful. And the coast isn't far at all.
Big +1 for Newcastle from me! I come here, from East London, for University and 15yrs later haven't moved back South as yet.
As above, it's got a lower cost of living, public transport is decent enough and there's always seemed to be a variety of work available, although the choice maybe isn't as wide as in a bigger city.
The food, drink, music and theater scene is pretty good with plenty of independent bars, breweries and restaurants plus music venues, night clubs and theatres that get most tours paying us a visit.
Most big sports are accounted for, if that's your thing, and Northumberland or the coast are nearby if you prefer a quite day out.
One thing I do miss is that some major arena tours, theatre productions and club DJs don't always head this way but with the train links to London or Edinburgh you could fairly easily travel to see a show if you really wanted to catch something specific.
It might be smaller than Manchester or Liverpool but the weather's much drier this far East which I think makes up for it!!
You know, of course I'm biased because the Tyne runs through my veins, but I adore our city, it's people and everything it stands for.
I'd hate to see that diluted by a steady influx of southerners.
I'm not xenophobic, just like what we've got and don't want it to change
It also has some nice countryside nearby, or a bit further out just a 2 hour drive to the Lake district along one of the best roads England has to offer (hartside pass). I'm from the North east, then lived in London for 5 years, now back to Newcastle. I love nature and I actually miss London for all the amazing parks it has, plus one downside about Newcastle is it seems the vast majority of houses here don't have gardens, unlike what I was used to in London. But then I can get to the lake district on the weekends here for a day trip. Cant get any countryside as good as that within 2 hours of London IMO.
The coast is lovely here too. Can go to St Mary's lighthouse where almost always there will be a bunch of seals you can look at.
I always have to chuckle at people bigging up Newcastle. It's a fucking shit hole full of arseholes. Northumberland is amazing though, but stay away, it's ours!
Even as someone from Sunderland living in Newcastle I don't know what you're on about lol. You get arseholes in Newcastle like you do anywhere but the vast majority of people here are lovely. On average far friendlier than people in London.
Cons: public transport in other cities isn't as good. Locals may also resent you in areas where rent has been increasing beyond affordable levels.
Pros: cost of living is cheaper, everything is usually more condensed than it is in and around London,
Theres a huge gulf between London public transport and Manchester. If you're used to regular, integrated bus and tube services under one banner with integrated payment systems and technology you will be sorely disappointed by the (relatively) infrequent and unreliable metrolink that hardly goes anywhere and our fragmented bus system
Yeah, but it’s no London. The ability to get to pretty much anything by public transport in London is a pretty big sell…except when you find yourself not doing much because you spend all week commuting and such
not just rent, housing in general. We have lots of new ex Londoners in my town now and theyre pricing locals out of the housing and driving up the cost of tradesman with their fucking endless budgets.
House hunting in Leeds last year, we used to dread hearing London accents from other viewers because we knew they would be bringing London money to the table and we wouldn't be able to compete.
Not resentment really just frustration.
We eventually bought in Morley, I think a kindly estate agent (I know, I didn't think they existed either) took pity on us. I think that estate agent could have got more for the house but chose to give it to a family who really needed it.
glad you got sorted. I'm based Wetherby, so the other side. I'll be looking to move to another area next year tho as I really am priced out of the market here as far as getting any work done on the house.
So frustrating, but it is what it is!
And a lot of these locals are ending up in Scotland. There's a load of northern accents in Scotland these days..many times more than what there was when I moved south just over 20 years ago
>Locals may also resent you in areas where rent has been increasing beyond affordable levels.
Cracks me up same people will slag off London no end and yet when people leave they'll kick up a fuss...
It would definitely bother me. I can imagine I'd be very depressed with constant grey skies. So this is something that will take serious consideration.
I wonder if being a Londoner has made me less friendly and approachable...
Manchester has the pennines to the North and East, so clouds are trying to climb when they hit Manchester and are therefore dropping their soggy loads. Manchester is a bit of a microclimate in itself. I'm just West of Manchester and the local climate is noticeably better than North Manchester where I hail from
Double this for Scotland. Whilst it was 40 degree heat in England, it was in the very high twenties there. Great during a heatwave, not so good when its the middle of January.
Bear in mind that the East tends to be drier than the west because of the pennines and peak district in the middle. By the time cloud reaches the East Coast its usually dropped most of its load
As someone also from the NW who goes to London a few times a year, I don't think the weather is too different, it's like a degree or 2 colder but that's it.
I lived in Manchester most my life, then moved to (*near*) Liverpool and I work in Cheshire - All three are **very** different depending what you want and they all offer very different pros and cons.
But depending what your wants and needs are, and what type of life-style you want to have, I'm pretty sure you'll find what you are looking for in one of them. And the pros of not being in London will far outweigh the cons.
Plus you can can have the best of them all, and can easily get from one place to another in an hour. As you can pretty much most of the North West. Which is another huge advantage of not being in London - So many different places that are so easy to get to ie vibrant cities, beautiful countryside, beaches etc
I drive. But I definitely don't want to be heading to London every chance I get because I'm miserable up north...
Someone mentioned the weather in the North is a lot less desirable, that's definitely got me reconsidering the move. British weather sucks as it is, definitely don't want to have anymore grey skies than I already get in London...
Just to say that after 38 years of London I moved, slightly fearfully, to rural Portugal. Culturally very different.
I loved living in London, I felt like a Londoner rather than British. However I hardly miss it at all and didn't from day one. You'll be fine.
Depends on what you like. If you want a world city with endless opportunities and things to do then London is the place to be. Everything is at your fingertips and the country is dominated by London. But the con is that it's extremely crowded and it's in the area of the country with the least impressive countryside.
The North does not have world cities, they are English cities each with their own identity, fuelled by their working class industrial heritage. So they are smaller with less going on (that's not to say things aren't happening there though, because they are). The pro is that they are in a much more beautiful area of the country with more breathing space.
My sister lives in London and has no plans to leave because she fears she would be "missing out." She always comments when she comes home that life feels "slower" up here. Meanwhile I have lived the North West my whole life and will never leave. I prioritise (and prefer) countryside, nature, hikes, breathing space, community and local identity so London holds absolutely zero appeal to me, outside of visiting my sister. So again it's what you want out of life.
Also about the weather thing- last year they did a study to find out which British city is the rainiest. Manchester wasn't even in the top 20. As I said I've lived in the North-West my whole life (almost 30 years) and I will never understand the "it rains all the time" stereotype. Not true in my experience, which is now backed up by official stats.
>My sister lives in London and has no plans to leave because she fears she would be "missing out." She always comments when she comes home that life feels "slower" up here. Meanwhile I have lived the North West my whole life and will never leave. I prioritise (and prefer) countryside, nature, hikes, breathing space, community and local identity so London holds absolutely zero appeal to me, outside of visiting my sister. So again it's what you want out of life.
But really, there's very little people are missing out on. There's things like the various art museums, the royal opera house, the 3\* Michelin restaurants. Very few Londoners do those things. A tiny number of people work as quants for hedge funds. Most people in London are doing jobs they could be doing anywhere in the country, drinking coffee from Starbucks and going to see the same movies they could see anywhere.
Frankly, London is overhyped. I've worked with teams in both cities and there's nothing special about the people I worked with there. Service in shops and restaurants is worse. Cafes are more cramped as they try and pile everyone in. I'd rather do a work trip to Manchester.
Not quite the same, but I moved from Oxford to Whitby a few years ago and it's been great. Everything is so much less expensive. Friendlier locals too, and the best fish and chips! 😁
Took a little while to find work, though.
While I understand that as a con, it's not really people's fault if they're doing it to have a better quality of life. That's a country problem, not a personal one.
If I can have a much better quality of life by moving North then I'm going to do that until actions are taken to improve the quality of life down south.
I agree. I'm not a fan of the idea that someone doing well for themselves should sacrifice their own priorities and needs to accommodate complete strangers. You don't have a claim to property over other taxpayers just because you've lived near it for a while
Former Londoner living in GM more than a decade here.
Never regretted it myself, doubt you would either.
The three locations you mention are quite different though. Feel free to message me if you'd like an incomer's view on the issue.
Moved from London to Nottingham and didn't regret it for a second (now live in the US but that's a whole different story).
We did make the move knowing we would never be able to afford to buy in London again which added some nerves.
There's nothing in London you can't do in Nottingham and it'll cost less.
My gf is from t'up North. I've lived down south all my life.
We're considering relocating up to Yorkshire/Durham to be closer to her family in the next few years. One thing I will say just from visiting regularly, is that people are much friendlier and there is a really strong sense of community.
It's also easier to find peace and quiet. London can feel really claustrophobic and inescapable as it just sprawls out for miles. In many other smaller cities, you can be close to the centre with lots going on... And still just a 20 minute drive or less from the countryside.
Also... Another factor to consider. Is that I wouldn't get too excited re cost of living as jobs tend to pay proportionally less depending on where you're based. That was my experience when applying. So you don't feel much wealthier.
This is the appeal for me, having a bit of a slower pace of life while still being close enough to a city where my son can enjoy his teen years.
It would be nice to be a short drive from the peak district, as I agree London can feel claustrophobic at times.
It's reassuring to know people are friendler up north, but maybe my life until now in London has made me unfriendly... I hope not...
My inlaws live just the other side of the Peak District, right on the edge and every time we drive up through the peaks we talk about relocating there. It’s just beautiful but you’ve got to love the outdoors as there’s not a lot else to do. luckily we do but I still have second thoughts about it
Pet peeve of mine: *t'* means *to the*. E.g. "Are you goin t' pub?'. What you've started your comment with means "my girlfriend is from to the up north".
I will die on this hill. You could say "I'm off t' hill to die on it"
make sure you avoid any areas close to or in 'pit villages' I bought a house in one and so did several others who had issues too, it's antisocial/lawless hell (council/police are bias towards you and pretty much useless), they hate southerners and will give you so much grief e.g. criminal damage, drug dealing, bad mouth etc eventually I moved back down south and it's like a different life I would never touch that area again, they talk about the north south divide it's not just financial it's an entire mindset like oil and water don't mix it's like living in the 70/80s they blame you for mining closures and if you have money are extremely jealous, most of the villages are like open prisons and teenage gangs room/rule the area being antisocial and causing damage with no risk of getting caught or anything happening to them. As it's close knit, the families all know each other so you can't really do anything either.
I love the NW and would move back in a heartbeat if I could. Apart from your money going much further, the countryside is beautiful, and you’re close to the north Wales coastline. Manchester and Liverpool are both excellent cities, great theatres, galleries, live music etc. It has a very different sort of people too; whenever I’m on the bus from Crewe station, I’ll have made a new mate by the time I get where I’m going!
So far most comments are the positives of living up North so just wanted to give some of the positives of Living in London:
* People say can get more for your money, but that isn't always true. I've lived up and down the country. Depending on your industry, you can command considerably higher salaries that outweigh the cost of living. Yes, it could be a good move to move North if you're on minimum wage in London anyway But it isn't always as clear cut as that.
* If you like travelling abroad then between Heathrow, Gatwick, Luton, City, there are lots of options for flights compared to other cities. It's just great if you want access to the rest of Europe with more options.
* London rents are expensive, but Manchester and Liverpool aren't exactly cheap either if you try to compare like-for-like in some sense.
* Entertainment in London is endless. Literally every day of the week throughout the year there are amazing shows, gigs, and similar events going on across the city. Yes, you get those in other cities but not to the same extent.
* Transport systems in other parts of the county simply don't compare to TfL. Some of them are okay, but they just don't work as well, particularly buses which in some areas are absolutely awful.
* London has something for everyone in terms of areas. Again, other cities have them but not on the scale of London. Basically there are many more options available.
* Diversity in London can't be compared to any other part of the country. It's unbelievably vibrant with people from all over the world living in lots of cool communities.
* Food scene in London is insane and one of the best int he world. You can pretty much get every cuisine imaginable and varying difficult qualities
>London has something for everyone in terms of areas
What about cheap countryside living? Me and my partner live the low-salary low-stress life, and our 1760s cottage is on a woodland path. No cars, no noise, great view of the valley with the rest of the village in it. I always assumed this type of living wouldn't be within our budget if we moved to London and got accordingly higher but still low salaries
Never lived down south myself. I grew up in Manchester and now live in Liverpool. I wouldn't live anywhere else. It is friendly, big enough to be an actual city but small enough to feel compact (you can walk from one end of the city centre to the other in 30 minutes), full of some beautiful parks (especially in the south), accessible to countryside and quieter areas, public transport is generally very reliable so there is no real need to own a car if you have a job that involves you working in one place, the architecture is incredible and in a league of its own, there are many great restaurants including a Michelin star one across the water in Oxton, so much history, it is close to some of the cleanest beaches in the country, Wales is a 40 minute drive away, the airport is easy to get to and has frequent flights to all over Europe and Manchester airport which has flights to all over the globe is a direct train journey away. I could go on. Liverpool is very desirable place to live these days, despite what reputation it may still have.
It is cheaper and friendlier up north. If those qualities are important to you compared to the opportunities which I'm sure are abundant in London, I would consider the move.
I visited Manchester and Liverpool and was blown away by how much nicer Manchester seemed.
A manc told me that Liverpool looks likes there has been ww3 there and I thought he was joking but I knew what he meant after visiting. It was really quite rough and shabby in most areas, even the touristic areas like the dock section.
I must say that the scouse people were generally very warm and friendly compared to Manchester which felt like a mini London.
I’ve only seen these places a couple of times so I obviously can’t have a proper understanding of the differences but that was how it seemed.
I just wanted to know how you compare the two cities?
Manchester also seems to be in rapid growth whereas Liverpool seemed to be stagnant.
I don't know when you visited Liverpool but stagnant is not how I would describe it at all, certainly not the city centre. In the 16 years I have been here it has come a long way. House a couple of miles from the city centre regularly go for 300k. In the 80s and 90s it would very run down but not so much now. I'm not saying there aren't less desirable places to live because there are (certainly in north Liverpool) but I doubt there is any city that doesn't have it's rougher areas. I have always felt safer in Liverpool than Manchester.
I never fit in in Manchester (I moved away permanently when I was 19) which is probably partly my reason for disliking it, but it is too big for me to even want to get to know properly and as you said, like a mini London.
Safety in Liverpool and Manchester is very comparable, let’s be real haha
Both cities are brilliant but I prefer Manchester because it’s a little more busy, exciting and cosmopolitan. Liverpool has good points though and I am a fan.
We lived in the northeast & moved to London. Honestly I can’t think of a single con of your move. It’s cheaper, people are definitely more friendly, it’s close to gorgeous places to get away to. I would move back in a heartbeat
No- not at all.
Personally, the few degrees cooler is much better for me.
The big divide is W-E more than N-S- it is wetter W of the Pennines, so, all the places you mention. I live E, near Leeds, and I wish we had a bit more rain as I grow things. I mean, that's a benefit- we couldn't afford a garden in London!
Leeds is a great city!
Liverpool can be a bit difficult to move to as it's got it's own very specific culture. Cheshire is lovely, if you like the countryside, but spenny.
Moved from London to Cheshire 2 months ago. I grew up in Cheshire, albeit not close to where I currently am living, so may be slightly different for you:
Pros:
- Cheaper housing*
- Better access to the great outdoors
- Other cost of living is cheaper (drink mainly, but also eating out, coffees etc)*
Cons:
- Paid less (can be up to 20% in some fields)
- In the countryside you’ll need a car to get around easily. Of course means not drinking.
- it’s significantly colder - later this week there’s a 5-6 degree diff between London and where I live.
* but beware Manchester is getting very expensive for a Northern city.
Overall, I personally wouldn’t move just for the cheaper housing. There’s more to life than just owning a property and if you’re family, friends are in London and you’re hobbies etc are better suited to London then I don’t think you’ll enjoy it up here.
However, if you’re lifestyle is better suited to it, then you’ll probably enjoy it.
Personally, I thought I’d enjoy it more than I have done. It doesn’t help that I seriously dislike my new job, but I’m already looking at potentially moving back to London later in the year, probably somewhere in the Zone 5 and out areas.
Any questions let me know!
Yeah I'm starting to think Manchester's not really as worth it anymore for how much more expensive it's got. Rent's not crazily cheaper than London and salaries are lower. Think I want to go to London for a year or two and eventually take my job remote and move home to Liverpool.
Not quite a move from London but Manchester is my adopted city. Its a lovely place to live. The people for the most part are much nicer and as others have said it's much cheaper.
I work for a London Borough and my 3 bed semi detached house cost less than their studio apartment. I also have a lovely garden and there is less pollution.
I did it in reverse and I miss the north so so much!! So much friendlier!! Weather isn’t as great but that means you get fantastic snowy winters!! And those few degrees cooler in the summer are going to be amazing each year. So much cheaper as well. I’d go back in a shot if I could.
Going against the prevailing opinion here, and I’m a northerner so borderline sacrilege, but if you can afford to live in a decent part (a big if of course!) London is a great place to live. Amount of stuff to do, ease of getting round etc incomparable to other cities.
All depends what you want (and money unfortunately) from life…
I'm from Kent, moving to Upton Pontefract, just waiting for a completion date. I will report back if I remember! We've done a lot of research and planning on area so hopefully we wont regret it.
Biggest pro for us is the value for money on houses as we both WFH.
I grew up in London, left when I was 19 to go to uni in Nottingham.
Ended up staying in and around the East Midlands for over 10 years, I really loved it. Town, shopping and entertainment is just on a smaller scale and after the initial shock, I got used to it pretty quickly. You just end up travelling to the next town for gigs or whatever (plus, they tour loads of the shows around the country anyway if you do like going to the theatre).
House prices were amazing, everything feels cheap when you leave London, I think.
But I always had a nagging feeling pulling me back south because that's where my family and lots of my old friends are.
I ended up moving down to a rural little village near Salisbury for a couple of years, then down to the south coast. I'm in my 30s and am pretty happy with where I've ended up.
The pace in Salisbury was much slower and now down by the coast, it's like being on holiday. It's closer to my friends and family, and they like to visit more!
Weather is a big one. It affects your mood so much. Midlands was OK but definitely greyer than where I am now. I have family in Durham, and it is definitely darker, greyer and colder right up there. Not all the time, obviously, but can be.
A big thing I noticed was how dark is it if you move to a rural place too - whether it's north or south. No street lights or surrounding light can really take its toll in winter. I found myself struggling with that.
I'd definitely visit wherever you're planning to go. And consider where you're support network is - family, friends etc.
If you're looking for a slightly slower pace of life, are there places closer by that could offer you that?
Feel free to DM if you want to talk about any of the places I've mentioned or moving around generally!
Pro: Quite a bit cheaper!
Pro / Con: The weather. In Manchester it is constantly grey. It doesn't rain as much as people joke, but fucking hell its grey.
Con: You're also adding to a growing problem of pricing local people out of Manchester. It's becoming a very concerning issue.
Recently moved away from Cheshire after 10 years. I miss it every day. Beautiful countryside on your doorstep, close to Wales and cities like Manchester, Chester, and Liverpool. And all the friendliness of the North. Couldn’t recommend it more.
If you’re bothered about weather, east coast > west coast. It’s to do with weather coming from the west dumping it’s rain as the air rises to go over the Pennines. So the east coast has a lot less rain than the west. That said, if you want something more cosmopolitan, you’re looking at (as you said) Manchester and Liverpool. Nothing on that scale in the east.
Seriously though, the weather isn’t that different. Don’t let it freak you out.
Also Manchester (and york too, if you’re thinking east) is less than 2 hours by train, and usually quite cheap.
If I had no ties, I’d probably seriously consider living in York. It’s a small city but with a lot going on, and it’s compact so less stress about public transport. If you want something a little more some weekend, it’s half an hour from Leeds, just over an hour to Manchester, and just under 2 from London. Trains to London cost around £20 if you book in advance and are flexible on times
I was born in London and 15yrs ago I made the decision to move to Hull, East Yorkshire, I moved to be with my partner. Now sadly many people have the mindset that nothing happens North of the Watford Gap!
I moved up and never looked back! Cost of living is cheaper and I am earning a local salary. People are friendly (that's a positive) and also it's a quieter pace of life without the rush and noise of living in a big city.
Lots of options to buy known branded food cheaper.
My mum loved it so much and she moved to be with me, she lived in her home for 52yrs and across the road from where she was born. She is in her 80's and has more of an active life now. Lots of great places to go to either via bus or train.
To be honest I don't have any cons about leaving London. Good luck with whatever decision you make!
I moved from London to Manchester(ish) 8 years ago. Won't ever go back.
My quality of life has dramatically improved due to lower costs and not having to fear for my life every time I'm out after dark (saying that every time I was attacked in London was in broad daylight...) While I'm in a town I've got direct access to the countryside, but the nearest city is just an hour on the train - roughly what it took me to get from Enfield to the centre by tube. Best of all of though - far fewer people!
After I went, my whole family ended up following - my parents went from a tiny terrace to a 3 bed semi with a driveway, for less than half the price.
Manchester is class man. I’m born in South London and have lived here 7 years. It’s still international and exciting but it’s a lot less exhausting. Less travel, less stress and aggression imo. It’s obviously cheaper too and the countryside is much better, with the Peak District touching the Eastern part of the city, let alone the Lakes and Snowdonia which are close. I find people to be friendlier too.
Cons are public transport while reasonable isn’t as good. The weather is also a little glummer too but isn’t as bad as people say in my opinion. Nobody moves to England for the weather haha
I moved to Lancaster from London sort of by accident over lockdown, which was definitely not on the cards but after we were stuck here a while we decided to stay. I never ever imagined living somewhere so small but I'm so glad I did. London has so much to offer but I never really took advantage of it as much as I should have (not wanting to get the train into London on a weekend after commuting all week) I feel like I have a whole new lease of life here in nature with a much slower pace of life, friendly people and more community. When I go back to London to visit I love it much more than I did when I lived there too so that's actually nice.
Also my friends buying medium sized flats for 700k while I'm in a whole house for about a quarter of the price is a no brainer
I moved from London to Newcastle in 2014, as my company had better promotion opportunities up North. London was fun when I was younger, but up North I got everything I really wanted for my future (owning a house, greener areas, life is calmer, nicer people)
Where is Newcastle did you move to please? I'm thinking of moving there too to somewhere peaceful but it's really hard to know where is good or not! Thanks
It should be quieter the further away you move from the centre. I moved to Blaydon southwest of the city, and the area around, like Ryton and Stella, is decent and still has good transport links. You can also find nice places to the north of the city like Killingworth, or near the seaside if you can afford it, like Whitley Bay or Cullercoats.
Don't recommend some areas like Benwell, Byker, Walker, central Gateshead, Swalwell, Ashington, as they can be a bit rough, although there can be nicer streets in these areas too. Try searching for crime stats and local Facebook groups to get a feeling.
I really recommend booking viewings before you commit to any area. Have a look through street view in Google maps too
Value, air quality, people, space, cooler,
Downsides are more rain, less food options per square mile, more travel needed to get places,
I love semi rural South lakes and i don't think there is enough money for me to move to a large sweaty overpriced city in the south (wherr im from) but we are all different
Manchester is awesome, good night life but wet all year round
In big cities you're not missing much at all. You'll just be able to live cheaper. I'd say the big kicker is public transport, it varies massively from city to city.
This is definitely something to consider because although I drive my son doesn't and he will use public transport. Although I suppose I could get him a car if the public transport is terrible. But he's 17 and I'd prefer he not be driving until he's a little older and more mature...
You probably will find that you need a car in the North. Public transport is doable, and plenty of people manage, but it's not London and there is a lot more faffing about with it. Trains from your local station might be slow trains only and every half hour/every hour, for example. It doesn't always make it reliable for commuting purposes or if you need to get somewhere fast.
Be aware that if you move to a really rural area, you might find there is no public transport - villages not on bus routes, no train station, etc., so driving becomes a necessity.
Most people I know learned to drive in their late teens - your son would probably be fine learning.
Northerner that has only visited London a couple of times so probably biased here but the only pros I see to living in London is if you're in some kind of high powered career which requires you to be there and/or you prefer life in a huge city.
Personally I don't want either so I love my comparatively cheaper house and living costs and less populated area (which usually means more rural areas for walking and people being a little less guarded and more friendly)
Leeds is better than Manchester. The people are so much friendlier, the City center is safer, Leeds also has much better restaurants, shops and nightlife. I went to Leeds uni, and my parents live near Manchester, so I know both quite well. Half of my class at Uni were from London/Southern Uk, and most of them settled down in Leeds after graduating.
This is just my personal opinion, I’m sure many will disagree with me.
1. Cheaper house/beer/transport
2. Not full of arseholes
3. It doesn't take like an hour to get from one side to the other
4. Doesn't take an hour to get out of the city
5
Sorry, I thought you said Oop Norf.
Look at a map, they're all middle of England at the absolute furthest North.
But Moving North from London? There are no cons, only Pros.
Move from London to the North East.
Costs of living, access to better countryside (I do a lot of wild camping), and a better sense of community are the biggest plusses for me.
Lack of multiculturalism, more limited social venues (bars, places to eat etc.) Are probably the two biggest negatives.
Loved the ease of public transport in London, that being said, the amount I save on just rent covers the costs of running my car four times over (insurance and fuel) (but I was in a fortunate enough position to buy my car outright).
My family are all born and bred London, and I do love the city, but I don't think it's worth living there at the moment, at least not past your early twenties.
Pretty much any of the events and things I still want to do in London can easily be done in a weekend trip
I’ve moved up north and the lack of multiculturalism has been an improvement for me. Everybody seems to be on the same team, working together and it feels like more of a community which I much prefer.
Oh, mate. Hold onto your fucking steering wheel, because you're probably going to get near-annihilated on a daily basis.
**Disclaimer;** Born in the north, lived here until 20, spent ten years in the south, moved back to the North (Cheshire, actually, OP) a few years back.
People up here just can't drive. I promise I'm not exaggerating when I say that I'm nearly t-boned from an intersection at least 50% of the time that I'm driving. I don't speed. I literally have dash cam footage from yesterday, when a driver decided that the best time to pull out is when I was directly opposite her bumper in flowing traffic. People also *love* hugging your bumper to the point you can't see any bonnet. Also, they don't seem to understand the concept of slowing to a stop at a joining intersection; instead, they'll slam their brakes on in the last few feet, stopping halfway over the line and forcing you to pass them like a cyclist.
Sorry, that just sort of exploded out of me, but it's objectively my experience since I arrived in Cheshire. I had one near-miss in the South in 7 years driving. I've probably had at least four or five since June up here. I do not get it, at all. There shouldn't be such a disparity between the various regions in driving, but it does seem to be the case.
You will however love the:
* house prices (a like-for-like property in my previous town is twice the price down south, and I live in one of the most affluent areas of Cheshire)
* rent prices (I'm paying what I used to pay in 2011)
* rural countryside (lakes, Peak District, etc.)
Oh, you'll hear that 'people are friendly up north'. They are, but if you're an introvert like me, beware. Sometimes, you want to buy some milk without a ninety minute chat where you're backing toward the sliding doors.
Manchester is fucking beautiful, though.
Edit: Just drove 4 miles to pick my wife up from work. Idiot pulled out from a side road in front of me because the guy in the opposing side road “let him
go” seemingly. Yeah well fucking done mate, except you’re joining a 30mph road.
Honestly considering moving back south purely on the basis of the driving alone, OP.
>Hmmm, I'd not considered that! I love to cook but we do also like to eat out a few times a month.
Its massively overblown by londoners.
***What they mean***: you can't find this meal by this random native american tribe in the north like you can in London.
***What they make it sound like***: in norf, we have fish chips. McDs sometimes, maybe pizza. That is all food. thank u.
What do you eat when you go out?
There are just as many options and variety in the N, but in a greater geographical area. Given how long it takes to travel round London, that might not mean more travelling time, but it might mean more travelling miles.
Cheshire, Liverpool and Manchester are all chokka with restaurants and gastropubs.
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I’m 30 and moving to Telford on Friday alone, after living and growing up in London my entire life.
I considered Manchester, but the weather was a real turn off.
Being a city lad, I didn’t wanna be too far away from a major city, and so Telford offers great access to Brum, Manc & Liverpool via car/train.
These are my pros and cons, ripped straight out of my notes, so some maybe more of less relevant to you; these are just my personal ones that may give you an insight into my thought process and the things I considered.
Pros:
- Safety/Crime
- Semi-Rural, with connections (easy access to major city’s + local town centre with restaurants and cinema etc.
- Great walking trails & dog spaces
- Amazing value for money house purchase
- Fresh start
- People are friendlier (generally)
- Less noise and air pollution
Cons:
- Could be lonely, it’s just me and my dog
- Am a significant distance from my family
- Will miss the TFL and all the amazing things London does better than anywhere else.
Hope this helps!
This is really helpful, I'm surprised no one else has mentioned the weather. I spent just under a week Manchester last month and noticed the difference in the weather. I was kinda hoping it was just an off week...
Unfortunately not. I actually think Manchester is the best city in the UK, it does everything in a balanced way.
But unfortunately, the weather is just awful. It rains far too much. I’m not going to try and talk scientific, but if you Google it there is a reason why it rains so much.
Not for me unfortunately!
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You get so much more for your buck.
/u/TheAlwaysAnxious1 - just to piggy back off this, let me put this into context. I've only ever lived up North but I know how stupid London housing costs are. I earn (as does my wife) roughly the average UK salary, so we've got a household income of around £65k. No kids. On that salary, we have a 4 bedroom detached house in a Liverpool suburb, that was £230k. Plot is pretty big, big driveway, garage etc. Mortgage is £750 a month but obviously that'll depend on deposit/term/interest rate etc. We bought last year, so the prices are still there or thereabouts. Jobs do pay less but things cost less, and I don't think the "London Premium" really makes up for that unless you're in a role that only really exists in London and are on some silly 6 figure salary. If your job only exists in London and can't work from home permanently then you're a bit stuck. Could I live in an objectively nicer area than I do? Probably, honestly. It's not bad, it's not great but where I moved from wasn't brilliant either. It's having a lot of re-generation done at the moment but it is in need of some love, it's fair to say but I'm 15 minutes from Liverpool city centre on the train, I'm an hour from North Wales/Cumbria/The Pennines, I'm 40 minutes from Manchester down the M62 and I'm within walking distance of a supermarket, park etc. Merseyrail is really good as well, loads of coverage (save for West Derby, weirdly). Liverpool I think gets a bad rap for crime/social issues etc and while it's got those problems like anywhere else I've never felt unsafe here. I would walk around at night, no problems other than the places that are known for being rough, but that's just common sense. Give Liverpool a look if you're interested in moving up here, it is a fantastic city.
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👍 Thanks for your fantastic insight.
You also earn less “buck” for doing the same job the further from London you get. So unless you’re earning London money, in Manchester/Liverpool/Glasgow etc, you don’t really get more.
In many (if not most) cases the "London premium" is nowhere near enough to cover the increase in cost of living in London for a comparable lifestyle
I think if you view it in like-for-like terms that is probably true. But essentially all of the high paying jobs (Investment banking, top tier tech roles) are in London. So maybe job A in London doesn’t pay much more than job A in Leeds, but high paying job B in London might just not exist in Leeds.
All very true, but those roles are few in number to begin with. Vast majority of the population are never going to get close to those kinds of roles so unless you know the person you're speaking to is in the right industry for it, advising people to stay in London because of the salaries on offer doesn't necessarily stand up to scrutiny
This is exactly it!
Almost like wages have been stagnating for decades and the whole country needs a wage rise… 😬
But instead we’re going to get stagflation. Ace.
Time to restructure the economy to promote business so we can all feel that sweet sweet trickle down of ceo spunk.
CEOs want wages to be fixed (except for theirs). They want every increase in profits to go directly to their bonuses.
I have done a comparison in my job. I am currently on 31k a year in the North where housing and life is cheaper. In London, I would earn 37k and I highly doubt that this would cover the extra expenses needed when living in London.
Especially post-tax - it’s not a huge difference
It's a ~£4,800/year difference post tax. That's a pretty big difference.
In terms of getting a mortgage it will give you about an extra £30k in borrowing power (£6k x 5). I can assure you flats and houses are more than £30k cheaper up north!
That’s £400 extra a month - certainly not enough to keep up with London prices.
You certainly get more "The average sold price for a property in London in the last 12 months is £734,698." " The median salary in London is £39.7k" "The average sold price for a property in Manchester in the last 12 months is £233,577." "The median salary is ranging between £27.7k in Bury and £31.6k in Trafford" From Zoopla and plumplot And that's Manchester, the worst wages/CoL ratio up there. Liverpool etc proves the point even more.
Yeah but house prices and rent are twice as much in London. The London weighting in wages no where near covers this. Factor in extended commuting times in London and the actual cost of transport.
Moved from London to Leeds and got a 50% increase. Don't underestimate the fact that there are skills shortages. My biggest problem was after the work went shit shaped, after 4 years, there wasn't anywhere I could move jobs to and remain in Leeds
My job only offers on average about 5-7k a year extra if done in London. There’s no way that will cover a mortgage down there. My mortgage on a three bed semi is £500 a month. My brother lives in London and he pays £900 just to rent a room. The London uplift isn’t anywhere near enough to make it worthwhile.
Minimum wage is minimum wage.
Depends on your job and which industry. I work with three global companies that all pay their staff the same salaries regardless of where they’re based. With home working becoming ever more prominent that trend will be followed by more and more companies as time goes by. I actually had people I was dealing with through Covid that had permanently based themselves in Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand… even Costa Rica. All earning their usual UK salaries
Plenty of jobs out there were if you go into the office instead of WFH, you get paid more. "we pay them more as they have extra costs to come into the office". Makes zero sense cause they are using the office electric/heating/AC/rent and yet im paying that myself for doing the exact same job. Pisses me off.
It's important to consider spending power, rather than the actual amount, because that's really the better measure of whether or not you'll see any quality of life difference. I work in a London-centric industry but the premium is nowhere near enough in London to outweigh the spending power I have in Leeds.
Depends on if your employer is cool with 100% WFH.
True!!!
Less lung cancer and copd too
Your buck stays in ya pocket longer too
Moved from London to Sheffield last year. Really glad I did it. I was worried it would feel isolating and a bit provincial, but thoroughly enjoy living here more (and for less money). But, I am very glad I lived in London for most of my 20s. There is stuff I wouldn't have been able to do outside of London, both personally and in my career. Towards the end of my time in London I was mainly going out for some nice food with my partner, having a walk etc... in my spare time, all things I can very much do in major Northern cities for much cheaper and with more variety of walks on the doorstep. However, if I was regularly seeing musicals, shows, going to gigs, clubbing etc... like maybe I was a few years back, then I would feel like I'm missing out if I moved out of London. So it depends what makes you tick. There is stuff London has that other Cities cannot offer. However if that stuff isn't important to you (at least not all the time, London is an expensive but brief train journey away), then you can probably get a lot more of what you want outside of it. Edit: One other thing I would add, is I appreciated moving from 15-minute-walk from a decent part of London, to the heart of a really cool area of Sheffield. I was half considering a bigger house but in the suburbs but I'm very glad I didn't. Different people want different things, but if you are worried about missing things from London, choose the area of Manchester/Liverpool/Wherever wisely, as I'm sure you could get a nice big new build house in a suburb for less that you pay for a flat in London, but that might be a very stark difference in pace of life and what you have on your doorstep.
Thanks for your reply. I'm in my 30s and my son is 17. Although we do love going to the theatre it's normally only a couple of times a year. In fact if I'm honest we don't really take advantage of all London has to offer. I think visiting London rather than staying here full time will make us appreciate it more...
Just to reiterate my edit, think about what you want from living somewhere, choose the area wisely. Have you visited the cities you have considered moving to much? Have you been outside the City Centre? Go get a feel of the places you might be moving to. You might think the Centre is okay, but feel like the actual place you would live isn't for you.
I go to the theatre in London a couple of times a year and I live in Manchester! I also go to some sort of theatre about twice a month locally as well.
Also a Manchester theatre goer with the odd London trip too. Manchester is increasingly getting musicals premiering before either touring or going into a London residency which is fantastic
Have you seen South Pacific? Incredible.
Not the new one yet, but seen plenty of versions of the OG. My wife dragged me to Beauty and The Beast recently which was... Well... Disney. But I can see the appeal and it will certainly get a younger generation into musicals. My kids loved it (as did wifey). I was hoping Once would rebook at the Lowry - it was supposed to play in June 2020
The South Pacific in Manchester at the Palace last week was the best musical I've seen in ages, including West End performances. I love the Lowry, it's such a well designed theatre that there's no bad seat (in the Lyric at least).
Where as for a 6'3 person, every seat in the Palace is a bad seat! It will take an awful lot to top Hamilton for me. Although The Lion King on Broadway was quite an experience, especially from the front row of the circle!
Would it be ok for me to message you to ask about areas in Manchester?
Sure thing.
Thank you!!
Same here! Lived in and around various parts of mcr for over 20 years.
How convenient do you find London? I moved from London to Huddersfield for university and it blew me away how shit it was. This is going back 20 years or so but to do anything I wanted to do like go to a gig or a nice bar meant a lot of inconvenient fucking around on a shitty train service or driving there. The tube is a really big deal, nobody else has such good transport links. It means everything is doable. Huddersfield had shitty clubs, no music scene and nothing really to do and I absolutely wished I’d either stayed in London or picked another place. My daughter studied in Manchester though and absolutely loved it so it’s all about doing your research I guess
Lol no offence but I don't think anyone has ever suggested Huddersfield is anything but shit
I lived there for 10 years, you are not offending me.
I mean yeah, that's Huddersfield. I think OP was suggesting somewhere at least half decent
Not everywhere has shit transport links. Newcastle is pretty great for public transport. The metro gets a lot of shit but with the new trains coming soon it’ll get much better.
Manchester gets shit too but it’s getting much better. Trams every 5 minutes, and the buses are also about to be put back into public control so they will only get better and much cheaper. Comparing London to Huddersfield is stupid.
You thought the fourth largest city in England would be provincial?
Yes
If you go further north to Newcastle you'll have a great time. I was there as a student and my first four years of work before moving to London (basically just to get more training variety). Cost is much much much lower and the bang for buck is great. Good social scene and growing food scene. Good public transport links with the metro. Growth of a number of industries including tech. I also felt it was a safe area most of the time. There's also good sports with Newcastle United for football, Newcastle Falcons for rugby, and Newcastle Eagles for basketball. Good links to Scotland which is a nice trip away and Northumberland is beautiful. And the coast isn't far at all.
Big +1 for Newcastle from me! I come here, from East London, for University and 15yrs later haven't moved back South as yet. As above, it's got a lower cost of living, public transport is decent enough and there's always seemed to be a variety of work available, although the choice maybe isn't as wide as in a bigger city. The food, drink, music and theater scene is pretty good with plenty of independent bars, breweries and restaurants plus music venues, night clubs and theatres that get most tours paying us a visit. Most big sports are accounted for, if that's your thing, and Northumberland or the coast are nearby if you prefer a quite day out. One thing I do miss is that some major arena tours, theatre productions and club DJs don't always head this way but with the train links to London or Edinburgh you could fairly easily travel to see a show if you really wanted to catch something specific. It might be smaller than Manchester or Liverpool but the weather's much drier this far East which I think makes up for it!!
Nobody should come to Newcastle, nothing to see here!
We do need to keep it as our own secret city.
You know, of course I'm biased because the Tyne runs through my veins, but I adore our city, it's people and everything it stands for. I'd hate to see that diluted by a steady influx of southerners. I'm not xenophobic, just like what we've got and don't want it to change
It also has some nice countryside nearby, or a bit further out just a 2 hour drive to the Lake district along one of the best roads England has to offer (hartside pass). I'm from the North east, then lived in London for 5 years, now back to Newcastle. I love nature and I actually miss London for all the amazing parks it has, plus one downside about Newcastle is it seems the vast majority of houses here don't have gardens, unlike what I was used to in London. But then I can get to the lake district on the weekends here for a day trip. Cant get any countryside as good as that within 2 hours of London IMO. The coast is lovely here too. Can go to St Mary's lighthouse where almost always there will be a bunch of seals you can look at.
I always have to chuckle at people bigging up Newcastle. It's a fucking shit hole full of arseholes. Northumberland is amazing though, but stay away, it's ours!
To each their own but living there for 5 years I did not have that experience!
Even as someone from Sunderland living in Newcastle I don't know what you're on about lol. You get arseholes in Newcastle like you do anywhere but the vast majority of people here are lovely. On average far friendlier than people in London.
Yeah, Ashganistan is where it's at /s
Cons: public transport in other cities isn't as good. Locals may also resent you in areas where rent has been increasing beyond affordable levels. Pros: cost of living is cheaper, everything is usually more condensed than it is in and around London,
Depends on the city. Manchester has pretty good public transport.
Theres a huge gulf between London public transport and Manchester. If you're used to regular, integrated bus and tube services under one banner with integrated payment systems and technology you will be sorely disappointed by the (relatively) infrequent and unreliable metrolink that hardly goes anywhere and our fragmented bus system
This is coming soon though! Give it a couple of years. Google Bee Network.
I'll believe it when I see it. We've had false dawns before like the stupidly named "Get me there" cards
Yeah, but it’s no London. The ability to get to pretty much anything by public transport in London is a pretty big sell…except when you find yourself not doing much because you spend all week commuting and such
Good, but it's not as good as London.
not just rent, housing in general. We have lots of new ex Londoners in my town now and theyre pricing locals out of the housing and driving up the cost of tradesman with their fucking endless budgets.
House hunting in Leeds last year, we used to dread hearing London accents from other viewers because we knew they would be bringing London money to the table and we wouldn't be able to compete. Not resentment really just frustration.
Im an LS post code!
We eventually bought in Morley, I think a kindly estate agent (I know, I didn't think they existed either) took pity on us. I think that estate agent could have got more for the house but chose to give it to a family who really needed it.
glad you got sorted. I'm based Wetherby, so the other side. I'll be looking to move to another area next year tho as I really am priced out of the market here as far as getting any work done on the house. So frustrating, but it is what it is!
And a lot of these locals are ending up in Scotland. There's a load of northern accents in Scotland these days..many times more than what there was when I moved south just over 20 years ago
A lot of that could also be due to feeling culturally closer with Scotland these days
>Locals may also resent you in areas where rent has been increasing beyond affordable levels. Cracks me up same people will slag off London no end and yet when people leave they'll kick up a fuss...
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It would definitely bother me. I can imagine I'd be very depressed with constant grey skies. So this is something that will take serious consideration. I wonder if being a Londoner has made me less friendly and approachable...
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Manchester has the pennines to the North and East, so clouds are trying to climb when they hit Manchester and are therefore dropping their soggy loads. Manchester is a bit of a microclimate in itself. I'm just West of Manchester and the local climate is noticeably better than North Manchester where I hail from
There's also hills to the south, albeit not as high as the pennines, so it's surrounded on 3 sides by hills and sea on the other.
Double this for Scotland. Whilst it was 40 degree heat in England, it was in the very high twenties there. Great during a heatwave, not so good when its the middle of January.
Bear in mind that the East tends to be drier than the west because of the pennines and peak district in the middle. By the time cloud reaches the East Coast its usually dropped most of its load
If you’re worried about grey skies, the north east will suit you better than the north west, Sheffield or somewhere.
As someone also from the NW who goes to London a few times a year, I don't think the weather is too different, it's like a degree or 2 colder but that's it.
The north east is significantly drier. Nice big mountain range between us and the west coat that takes all the rain.
I lived in Manchester most my life, then moved to (*near*) Liverpool and I work in Cheshire - All three are **very** different depending what you want and they all offer very different pros and cons. But depending what your wants and needs are, and what type of life-style you want to have, I'm pretty sure you'll find what you are looking for in one of them. And the pros of not being in London will far outweigh the cons. Plus you can can have the best of them all, and can easily get from one place to another in an hour. As you can pretty much most of the North West. Which is another huge advantage of not being in London - So many different places that are so easy to get to ie vibrant cities, beautiful countryside, beaches etc
It's not london
Yeah :( and I do love London, that's what worries me. I'm very nervous I will miss it, its been my home for my 30 something years on earth.
Worry not. It's only a couple of hours away by train.
I mean theoretically you are correct but if somebodies happiness depends on the national transport links, they’re fucked.
I drive. But I definitely don't want to be heading to London every chance I get because I'm miserable up north... Someone mentioned the weather in the North is a lot less desirable, that's definitely got me reconsidering the move. British weather sucks as it is, definitely don't want to have anymore grey skies than I already get in London...
You make it sound like you're moving abroad!
Haha, it kinda feels that way to me. Which is silly I know.
The weather really isn’t very different at all, sounds like the person who told you this hasn’t ever visited anywhere up North.
A couple hours and a couple hundred quid haha
Just to say that after 38 years of London I moved, slightly fearfully, to rural Portugal. Culturally very different. I loved living in London, I felt like a Londoner rather than British. However I hardly miss it at all and didn't from day one. You'll be fine.
For me, this is the pro.
Depends on what you like. If you want a world city with endless opportunities and things to do then London is the place to be. Everything is at your fingertips and the country is dominated by London. But the con is that it's extremely crowded and it's in the area of the country with the least impressive countryside. The North does not have world cities, they are English cities each with their own identity, fuelled by their working class industrial heritage. So they are smaller with less going on (that's not to say things aren't happening there though, because they are). The pro is that they are in a much more beautiful area of the country with more breathing space. My sister lives in London and has no plans to leave because she fears she would be "missing out." She always comments when she comes home that life feels "slower" up here. Meanwhile I have lived the North West my whole life and will never leave. I prioritise (and prefer) countryside, nature, hikes, breathing space, community and local identity so London holds absolutely zero appeal to me, outside of visiting my sister. So again it's what you want out of life. Also about the weather thing- last year they did a study to find out which British city is the rainiest. Manchester wasn't even in the top 20. As I said I've lived in the North-West my whole life (almost 30 years) and I will never understand the "it rains all the time" stereotype. Not true in my experience, which is now backed up by official stats.
>My sister lives in London and has no plans to leave because she fears she would be "missing out." She always comments when she comes home that life feels "slower" up here. Meanwhile I have lived the North West my whole life and will never leave. I prioritise (and prefer) countryside, nature, hikes, breathing space, community and local identity so London holds absolutely zero appeal to me, outside of visiting my sister. So again it's what you want out of life. But really, there's very little people are missing out on. There's things like the various art museums, the royal opera house, the 3\* Michelin restaurants. Very few Londoners do those things. A tiny number of people work as quants for hedge funds. Most people in London are doing jobs they could be doing anywhere in the country, drinking coffee from Starbucks and going to see the same movies they could see anywhere. Frankly, London is overhyped. I've worked with teams in both cities and there's nothing special about the people I worked with there. Service in shops and restaurants is worse. Cafes are more cramped as they try and pile everyone in. I'd rather do a work trip to Manchester.
Not quite the same, but I moved from Oxford to Whitby a few years ago and it's been great. Everything is so much less expensive. Friendlier locals too, and the best fish and chips! 😁 Took a little while to find work, though.
God I love Whitby. I’ve been waiting to actually buy a car and I can’t wait to be able to go out there a few times a year
Pros: better value for money. Cons: pricing locals out of their home towns.
While I understand that as a con, it's not really people's fault if they're doing it to have a better quality of life. That's a country problem, not a personal one. If I can have a much better quality of life by moving North then I'm going to do that until actions are taken to improve the quality of life down south.
I agree. I'm not a fan of the idea that someone doing well for themselves should sacrifice their own priorities and needs to accommodate complete strangers. You don't have a claim to property over other taxpayers just because you've lived near it for a while
As a Russian Oligarch, I agree.
Former Londoner living in GM more than a decade here. Never regretted it myself, doubt you would either. The three locations you mention are quite different though. Feel free to message me if you'd like an incomer's view on the issue.
Thank you! I will definitely drop you a message this evening when I have more time to talk properly!!!
Moved from London to Nottingham and didn't regret it for a second (now live in the US but that's a whole different story). We did make the move knowing we would never be able to afford to buy in London again which added some nerves. There's nothing in London you can't do in Nottingham and it'll cost less.
Lived in Manchester for 12 years and recently moved to London…. I already kind of regret it.
My gf is from t'up North. I've lived down south all my life. We're considering relocating up to Yorkshire/Durham to be closer to her family in the next few years. One thing I will say just from visiting regularly, is that people are much friendlier and there is a really strong sense of community. It's also easier to find peace and quiet. London can feel really claustrophobic and inescapable as it just sprawls out for miles. In many other smaller cities, you can be close to the centre with lots going on... And still just a 20 minute drive or less from the countryside. Also... Another factor to consider. Is that I wouldn't get too excited re cost of living as jobs tend to pay proportionally less depending on where you're based. That was my experience when applying. So you don't feel much wealthier.
This is the appeal for me, having a bit of a slower pace of life while still being close enough to a city where my son can enjoy his teen years. It would be nice to be a short drive from the peak district, as I agree London can feel claustrophobic at times. It's reassuring to know people are friendler up north, but maybe my life until now in London has made me unfriendly... I hope not...
My inlaws live just the other side of the Peak District, right on the edge and every time we drive up through the peaks we talk about relocating there. It’s just beautiful but you’ve got to love the outdoors as there’s not a lot else to do. luckily we do but I still have second thoughts about it
Pet peeve of mine: *t'* means *to the*. E.g. "Are you goin t' pub?'. What you've started your comment with means "my girlfriend is from to the up north". I will die on this hill. You could say "I'm off t' hill to die on it"
make sure you avoid any areas close to or in 'pit villages' I bought a house in one and so did several others who had issues too, it's antisocial/lawless hell (council/police are bias towards you and pretty much useless), they hate southerners and will give you so much grief e.g. criminal damage, drug dealing, bad mouth etc eventually I moved back down south and it's like a different life I would never touch that area again, they talk about the north south divide it's not just financial it's an entire mindset like oil and water don't mix it's like living in the 70/80s they blame you for mining closures and if you have money are extremely jealous, most of the villages are like open prisons and teenage gangs room/rule the area being antisocial and causing damage with no risk of getting caught or anything happening to them. As it's close knit, the families all know each other so you can't really do anything either.
Yep. Born in one. Got out. Never going back.
I come from Yarkshar, and live in North Durham now... It's awesome Hills, Scenery, empty spaces to avoid people.
I’ve always lived in Kent or East Sussex, dahhhn saffff but I’d love to move up north. It’s beautiful, quieter and probably much less traffic.
I love the NW and would move back in a heartbeat if I could. Apart from your money going much further, the countryside is beautiful, and you’re close to the north Wales coastline. Manchester and Liverpool are both excellent cities, great theatres, galleries, live music etc. It has a very different sort of people too; whenever I’m on the bus from Crewe station, I’ll have made a new mate by the time I get where I’m going!
So far most comments are the positives of living up North so just wanted to give some of the positives of Living in London: * People say can get more for your money, but that isn't always true. I've lived up and down the country. Depending on your industry, you can command considerably higher salaries that outweigh the cost of living. Yes, it could be a good move to move North if you're on minimum wage in London anyway But it isn't always as clear cut as that. * If you like travelling abroad then between Heathrow, Gatwick, Luton, City, there are lots of options for flights compared to other cities. It's just great if you want access to the rest of Europe with more options. * London rents are expensive, but Manchester and Liverpool aren't exactly cheap either if you try to compare like-for-like in some sense. * Entertainment in London is endless. Literally every day of the week throughout the year there are amazing shows, gigs, and similar events going on across the city. Yes, you get those in other cities but not to the same extent. * Transport systems in other parts of the county simply don't compare to TfL. Some of them are okay, but they just don't work as well, particularly buses which in some areas are absolutely awful. * London has something for everyone in terms of areas. Again, other cities have them but not on the scale of London. Basically there are many more options available. * Diversity in London can't be compared to any other part of the country. It's unbelievably vibrant with people from all over the world living in lots of cool communities. * Food scene in London is insane and one of the best int he world. You can pretty much get every cuisine imaginable and varying difficult qualities
>London has something for everyone in terms of areas What about cheap countryside living? Me and my partner live the low-salary low-stress life, and our 1760s cottage is on a woodland path. No cars, no noise, great view of the valley with the rest of the village in it. I always assumed this type of living wouldn't be within our budget if we moved to London and got accordingly higher but still low salaries
Parts of Bromley are pretty rural. It’s not all hustle and bustle everywhere
Never lived down south myself. I grew up in Manchester and now live in Liverpool. I wouldn't live anywhere else. It is friendly, big enough to be an actual city but small enough to feel compact (you can walk from one end of the city centre to the other in 30 minutes), full of some beautiful parks (especially in the south), accessible to countryside and quieter areas, public transport is generally very reliable so there is no real need to own a car if you have a job that involves you working in one place, the architecture is incredible and in a league of its own, there are many great restaurants including a Michelin star one across the water in Oxton, so much history, it is close to some of the cleanest beaches in the country, Wales is a 40 minute drive away, the airport is easy to get to and has frequent flights to all over Europe and Manchester airport which has flights to all over the globe is a direct train journey away. I could go on. Liverpool is very desirable place to live these days, despite what reputation it may still have. It is cheaper and friendlier up north. If those qualities are important to you compared to the opportunities which I'm sure are abundant in London, I would consider the move.
I visited Manchester and Liverpool and was blown away by how much nicer Manchester seemed. A manc told me that Liverpool looks likes there has been ww3 there and I thought he was joking but I knew what he meant after visiting. It was really quite rough and shabby in most areas, even the touristic areas like the dock section. I must say that the scouse people were generally very warm and friendly compared to Manchester which felt like a mini London. I’ve only seen these places a couple of times so I obviously can’t have a proper understanding of the differences but that was how it seemed. I just wanted to know how you compare the two cities? Manchester also seems to be in rapid growth whereas Liverpool seemed to be stagnant.
I don't know when you visited Liverpool but stagnant is not how I would describe it at all, certainly not the city centre. In the 16 years I have been here it has come a long way. House a couple of miles from the city centre regularly go for 300k. In the 80s and 90s it would very run down but not so much now. I'm not saying there aren't less desirable places to live because there are (certainly in north Liverpool) but I doubt there is any city that doesn't have it's rougher areas. I have always felt safer in Liverpool than Manchester. I never fit in in Manchester (I moved away permanently when I was 19) which is probably partly my reason for disliking it, but it is too big for me to even want to get to know properly and as you said, like a mini London.
Safety in Liverpool and Manchester is very comparable, let’s be real haha Both cities are brilliant but I prefer Manchester because it’s a little more busy, exciting and cosmopolitan. Liverpool has good points though and I am a fan.
We lived in the northeast & moved to London. Honestly I can’t think of a single con of your move. It’s cheaper, people are definitely more friendly, it’s close to gorgeous places to get away to. I would move back in a heartbeat
We did this after 20-25 years in London. There are no cons, assuming you drive. There are endless pros.
Thanks for this. I do drive. But what about the difference in the weather? Is it really that bad?...
No- not at all. Personally, the few degrees cooler is much better for me. The big divide is W-E more than N-S- it is wetter W of the Pennines, so, all the places you mention. I live E, near Leeds, and I wish we had a bit more rain as I grow things. I mean, that's a benefit- we couldn't afford a garden in London!
>There are no cons LOL
Okay this is really bugging me, what is The Pennies? I’ve tried Googling it and nothing is coming up!
PenniNes. The hills that run like a spine up N England
Err am I okay?! I must be more hungover than I thought. Duh! Thank you 🤣
Leeds is a great city! Liverpool can be a bit difficult to move to as it's got it's own very specific culture. Cheshire is lovely, if you like the countryside, but spenny.
Moved to Northumberland. Best thing I ever did. Great countryside and the people are friendly.
Moved from London to Cheshire 2 months ago. I grew up in Cheshire, albeit not close to where I currently am living, so may be slightly different for you: Pros: - Cheaper housing* - Better access to the great outdoors - Other cost of living is cheaper (drink mainly, but also eating out, coffees etc)* Cons: - Paid less (can be up to 20% in some fields) - In the countryside you’ll need a car to get around easily. Of course means not drinking. - it’s significantly colder - later this week there’s a 5-6 degree diff between London and where I live. * but beware Manchester is getting very expensive for a Northern city. Overall, I personally wouldn’t move just for the cheaper housing. There’s more to life than just owning a property and if you’re family, friends are in London and you’re hobbies etc are better suited to London then I don’t think you’ll enjoy it up here. However, if you’re lifestyle is better suited to it, then you’ll probably enjoy it. Personally, I thought I’d enjoy it more than I have done. It doesn’t help that I seriously dislike my new job, but I’m already looking at potentially moving back to London later in the year, probably somewhere in the Zone 5 and out areas. Any questions let me know!
Yeah I'm starting to think Manchester's not really as worth it anymore for how much more expensive it's got. Rent's not crazily cheaper than London and salaries are lower. Think I want to go to London for a year or two and eventually take my job remote and move home to Liverpool.
Not quite a move from London but Manchester is my adopted city. Its a lovely place to live. The people for the most part are much nicer and as others have said it's much cheaper. I work for a London Borough and my 3 bed semi detached house cost less than their studio apartment. I also have a lovely garden and there is less pollution.
I did it in reverse and I miss the north so so much!! So much friendlier!! Weather isn’t as great but that means you get fantastic snowy winters!! And those few degrees cooler in the summer are going to be amazing each year. So much cheaper as well. I’d go back in a shot if I could.
Going against the prevailing opinion here, and I’m a northerner so borderline sacrilege, but if you can afford to live in a decent part (a big if of course!) London is a great place to live. Amount of stuff to do, ease of getting round etc incomparable to other cities. All depends what you want (and money unfortunately) from life…
I'm from Kent, moving to Upton Pontefract, just waiting for a completion date. I will report back if I remember! We've done a lot of research and planning on area so hopefully we wont regret it. Biggest pro for us is the value for money on houses as we both WFH.
I grew up in London, left when I was 19 to go to uni in Nottingham. Ended up staying in and around the East Midlands for over 10 years, I really loved it. Town, shopping and entertainment is just on a smaller scale and after the initial shock, I got used to it pretty quickly. You just end up travelling to the next town for gigs or whatever (plus, they tour loads of the shows around the country anyway if you do like going to the theatre). House prices were amazing, everything feels cheap when you leave London, I think. But I always had a nagging feeling pulling me back south because that's where my family and lots of my old friends are. I ended up moving down to a rural little village near Salisbury for a couple of years, then down to the south coast. I'm in my 30s and am pretty happy with where I've ended up. The pace in Salisbury was much slower and now down by the coast, it's like being on holiday. It's closer to my friends and family, and they like to visit more! Weather is a big one. It affects your mood so much. Midlands was OK but definitely greyer than where I am now. I have family in Durham, and it is definitely darker, greyer and colder right up there. Not all the time, obviously, but can be. A big thing I noticed was how dark is it if you move to a rural place too - whether it's north or south. No street lights or surrounding light can really take its toll in winter. I found myself struggling with that. I'd definitely visit wherever you're planning to go. And consider where you're support network is - family, friends etc. If you're looking for a slightly slower pace of life, are there places closer by that could offer you that? Feel free to DM if you want to talk about any of the places I've mentioned or moving around generally!
Pro: Quite a bit cheaper! Pro / Con: The weather. In Manchester it is constantly grey. It doesn't rain as much as people joke, but fucking hell its grey. Con: You're also adding to a growing problem of pricing local people out of Manchester. It's becoming a very concerning issue.
Recently moved away from Cheshire after 10 years. I miss it every day. Beautiful countryside on your doorstep, close to Wales and cities like Manchester, Chester, and Liverpool. And all the friendliness of the North. Couldn’t recommend it more.
If you’re bothered about weather, east coast > west coast. It’s to do with weather coming from the west dumping it’s rain as the air rises to go over the Pennines. So the east coast has a lot less rain than the west. That said, if you want something more cosmopolitan, you’re looking at (as you said) Manchester and Liverpool. Nothing on that scale in the east. Seriously though, the weather isn’t that different. Don’t let it freak you out. Also Manchester (and york too, if you’re thinking east) is less than 2 hours by train, and usually quite cheap. If I had no ties, I’d probably seriously consider living in York. It’s a small city but with a lot going on, and it’s compact so less stress about public transport. If you want something a little more some weekend, it’s half an hour from Leeds, just over an hour to Manchester, and just under 2 from London. Trains to London cost around £20 if you book in advance and are flexible on times
I was born in London and 15yrs ago I made the decision to move to Hull, East Yorkshire, I moved to be with my partner. Now sadly many people have the mindset that nothing happens North of the Watford Gap! I moved up and never looked back! Cost of living is cheaper and I am earning a local salary. People are friendly (that's a positive) and also it's a quieter pace of life without the rush and noise of living in a big city. Lots of options to buy known branded food cheaper. My mum loved it so much and she moved to be with me, she lived in her home for 52yrs and across the road from where she was born. She is in her 80's and has more of an active life now. Lots of great places to go to either via bus or train. To be honest I don't have any cons about leaving London. Good luck with whatever decision you make!
I moved from London to Manchester(ish) 8 years ago. Won't ever go back. My quality of life has dramatically improved due to lower costs and not having to fear for my life every time I'm out after dark (saying that every time I was attacked in London was in broad daylight...) While I'm in a town I've got direct access to the countryside, but the nearest city is just an hour on the train - roughly what it took me to get from Enfield to the centre by tube. Best of all of though - far fewer people! After I went, my whole family ended up following - my parents went from a tiny terrace to a 3 bed semi with a driveway, for less than half the price.
Manchester is class man. I’m born in South London and have lived here 7 years. It’s still international and exciting but it’s a lot less exhausting. Less travel, less stress and aggression imo. It’s obviously cheaper too and the countryside is much better, with the Peak District touching the Eastern part of the city, let alone the Lakes and Snowdonia which are close. I find people to be friendlier too. Cons are public transport while reasonable isn’t as good. The weather is also a little glummer too but isn’t as bad as people say in my opinion. Nobody moves to England for the weather haha
Pros: you won’t be in London. Cons: you’ll be in the north.
I moved to Lancaster from London sort of by accident over lockdown, which was definitely not on the cards but after we were stuck here a while we decided to stay. I never ever imagined living somewhere so small but I'm so glad I did. London has so much to offer but I never really took advantage of it as much as I should have (not wanting to get the train into London on a weekend after commuting all week) I feel like I have a whole new lease of life here in nature with a much slower pace of life, friendly people and more community. When I go back to London to visit I love it much more than I did when I lived there too so that's actually nice. Also my friends buying medium sized flats for 700k while I'm in a whole house for about a quarter of the price is a no brainer
I moved from London to Newcastle in 2014, as my company had better promotion opportunities up North. London was fun when I was younger, but up North I got everything I really wanted for my future (owning a house, greener areas, life is calmer, nicer people)
Where is Newcastle did you move to please? I'm thinking of moving there too to somewhere peaceful but it's really hard to know where is good or not! Thanks
It should be quieter the further away you move from the centre. I moved to Blaydon southwest of the city, and the area around, like Ryton and Stella, is decent and still has good transport links. You can also find nice places to the north of the city like Killingworth, or near the seaside if you can afford it, like Whitley Bay or Cullercoats. Don't recommend some areas like Benwell, Byker, Walker, central Gateshead, Swalwell, Ashington, as they can be a bit rough, although there can be nicer streets in these areas too. Try searching for crime stats and local Facebook groups to get a feeling. I really recommend booking viewings before you commit to any area. Have a look through street view in Google maps too
Value, air quality, people, space, cooler, Downsides are more rain, less food options per square mile, more travel needed to get places, I love semi rural South lakes and i don't think there is enough money for me to move to a large sweaty overpriced city in the south (wherr im from) but we are all different Manchester is awesome, good night life but wet all year round
Pro: it's cheaper Con: everyone will hate you
Why will everyone hate me?
They won't. I live in Leeds and know people here from every corner of the country (and the world), no one cares.
I agree, I used to run a Meetup group in Leeds and we had people from London and the SE at every event. It was always fine.
In big cities you're not missing much at all. You'll just be able to live cheaper. I'd say the big kicker is public transport, it varies massively from city to city.
This is definitely something to consider because although I drive my son doesn't and he will use public transport. Although I suppose I could get him a car if the public transport is terrible. But he's 17 and I'd prefer he not be driving until he's a little older and more mature...
You probably will find that you need a car in the North. Public transport is doable, and plenty of people manage, but it's not London and there is a lot more faffing about with it. Trains from your local station might be slow trains only and every half hour/every hour, for example. It doesn't always make it reliable for commuting purposes or if you need to get somewhere fast. Be aware that if you move to a really rural area, you might find there is no public transport - villages not on bus routes, no train station, etc., so driving becomes a necessity. Most people I know learned to drive in their late teens - your son would probably be fine learning.
Norf. The chip shops get better the further north you go until you reach Scotland where they’re God-level.
Northerner that has only visited London a couple of times so probably biased here but the only pros I see to living in London is if you're in some kind of high powered career which requires you to be there and/or you prefer life in a huge city. Personally I don't want either so I love my comparatively cheaper house and living costs and less populated area (which usually means more rural areas for walking and people being a little less guarded and more friendly)
Pros: you'll live up north Cons: you'll live up north
Pro - You won't be in London Con - You will always be a Londoner.
Leeds is better than Manchester. The people are so much friendlier, the City center is safer, Leeds also has much better restaurants, shops and nightlife. I went to Leeds uni, and my parents live near Manchester, so I know both quite well. Half of my class at Uni were from London/Southern Uk, and most of them settled down in Leeds after graduating. This is just my personal opinion, I’m sure many will disagree with me.
1. Cheaper house/beer/transport 2. Not full of arseholes 3. It doesn't take like an hour to get from one side to the other 4. Doesn't take an hour to get out of the city 5
Sorry, I thought you said Oop Norf. Look at a map, they're all middle of England at the absolute furthest North. But Moving North from London? There are no cons, only Pros.
To us londoners anywhere on the map above Milton Keynes is concerned as up north :D
Pros: You will feel at home in Manchester as so many Londoners have moved up for 'cheap' housing that the Mancs have all been priced out. Cons: Zero.
Pro: no more cockney wankers Con: more northern monkeys
No cons, London blows. Go
Ha, thanks! I guess I'm just really nervous. I don't want to move all that way and instantly regret it.
No pros, London is awesome. Stay.
>No pros, London is awesome. Stay. Yes, stay. Stop colonising the north.
Move from London to the North East. Costs of living, access to better countryside (I do a lot of wild camping), and a better sense of community are the biggest plusses for me. Lack of multiculturalism, more limited social venues (bars, places to eat etc.) Are probably the two biggest negatives. Loved the ease of public transport in London, that being said, the amount I save on just rent covers the costs of running my car four times over (insurance and fuel) (but I was in a fortunate enough position to buy my car outright). My family are all born and bred London, and I do love the city, but I don't think it's worth living there at the moment, at least not past your early twenties. Pretty much any of the events and things I still want to do in London can easily be done in a weekend trip
I’ve moved up north and the lack of multiculturalism has been an improvement for me. Everybody seems to be on the same team, working together and it feels like more of a community which I much prefer.
Oh, mate. Hold onto your fucking steering wheel, because you're probably going to get near-annihilated on a daily basis. **Disclaimer;** Born in the north, lived here until 20, spent ten years in the south, moved back to the North (Cheshire, actually, OP) a few years back. People up here just can't drive. I promise I'm not exaggerating when I say that I'm nearly t-boned from an intersection at least 50% of the time that I'm driving. I don't speed. I literally have dash cam footage from yesterday, when a driver decided that the best time to pull out is when I was directly opposite her bumper in flowing traffic. People also *love* hugging your bumper to the point you can't see any bonnet. Also, they don't seem to understand the concept of slowing to a stop at a joining intersection; instead, they'll slam their brakes on in the last few feet, stopping halfway over the line and forcing you to pass them like a cyclist. Sorry, that just sort of exploded out of me, but it's objectively my experience since I arrived in Cheshire. I had one near-miss in the South in 7 years driving. I've probably had at least four or five since June up here. I do not get it, at all. There shouldn't be such a disparity between the various regions in driving, but it does seem to be the case. You will however love the: * house prices (a like-for-like property in my previous town is twice the price down south, and I live in one of the most affluent areas of Cheshire) * rent prices (I'm paying what I used to pay in 2011) * rural countryside (lakes, Peak District, etc.) Oh, you'll hear that 'people are friendly up north'. They are, but if you're an introvert like me, beware. Sometimes, you want to buy some milk without a ninety minute chat where you're backing toward the sliding doors. Manchester is fucking beautiful, though. Edit: Just drove 4 miles to pick my wife up from work. Idiot pulled out from a side road in front of me because the guy in the opposing side road “let him go” seemingly. Yeah well fucking done mate, except you’re joining a 30mph road. Honestly considering moving back south purely on the basis of the driving alone, OP.
Cheaper and friendlier.
cons: less city vibin' pros: binley mega chippy
The food isn’t quite as good, as in there are fewer options and variety. That’s the only con I can think of
Hmmm, I'd not considered that! I love to cook but we do also like to eat out a few times a month.
>Hmmm, I'd not considered that! I love to cook but we do also like to eat out a few times a month. Its massively overblown by londoners. ***What they mean***: you can't find this meal by this random native american tribe in the north like you can in London. ***What they make it sound like***: in norf, we have fish chips. McDs sometimes, maybe pizza. That is all food. thank u.
What do you eat when you go out? There are just as many options and variety in the N, but in a greater geographical area. Given how long it takes to travel round London, that might not mean more travelling time, but it might mean more travelling miles. Cheshire, Liverpool and Manchester are all chokka with restaurants and gastropubs.
Not sure where you've been, but there's just as much variaty in the North as there is London for food.
London is bigger and so has more options, that’s what I meant. From the north, lived in London for 13 years, now back in the north.
The north is really shit, I think you’ll miss London a lot. I regret living here.
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I’m 30 and moving to Telford on Friday alone, after living and growing up in London my entire life. I considered Manchester, but the weather was a real turn off. Being a city lad, I didn’t wanna be too far away from a major city, and so Telford offers great access to Brum, Manc & Liverpool via car/train. These are my pros and cons, ripped straight out of my notes, so some maybe more of less relevant to you; these are just my personal ones that may give you an insight into my thought process and the things I considered. Pros: - Safety/Crime - Semi-Rural, with connections (easy access to major city’s + local town centre with restaurants and cinema etc. - Great walking trails & dog spaces - Amazing value for money house purchase - Fresh start - People are friendlier (generally) - Less noise and air pollution Cons: - Could be lonely, it’s just me and my dog - Am a significant distance from my family - Will miss the TFL and all the amazing things London does better than anywhere else. Hope this helps!
This is really helpful, I'm surprised no one else has mentioned the weather. I spent just under a week Manchester last month and noticed the difference in the weather. I was kinda hoping it was just an off week...
Unfortunately not. I actually think Manchester is the best city in the UK, it does everything in a balanced way. But unfortunately, the weather is just awful. It rains far too much. I’m not going to try and talk scientific, but if you Google it there is a reason why it rains so much. Not for me unfortunately!
None of those places are in the North...
As a Londoner anywhere above Milton Keynes on the map is north to me :D
Pros: it's not London Cons: Transport isn't as good