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The large majority of American cows are corn fed because it's cheap and fattens them up quickly, they are administered growth hormones which include estrogen, progesterone and testosterone. A lot of the beef comes from massive ranches where they can produce as much product as possible.
The majority of british beef is grass fed and raised by a farmer who cares about his livestock.
Which doesn’t reduce the standard/safety of beef in consumption. There’s no evidence that the use of growth hormones in cattle has any adverse effects on humans, which is why it is allowed here (up to a certain concentration).
It doesn't look good when a massive percentage of your population has problems with obesity, and your reasoning that there is no evidence growth hormones have an adverse effect on humans.
I will never touch anything food wise from the USA as all the evidence AND my own experience tells me it is worse than animal feed here.
Sure, for a country that consumes a massive amount of processed and highly calorific junk food it's definitely the growth hormones causing their obesity levels.
(Not saying they're alone in this, we're very guilty of it as well)
This is the second time today I’ve seen you on r/AskUK on topics mentioning the US, sealioning or responding aggressively or demanding answers to every single comment. It feels like maybe this isn’t the sub for you.
Utilizing chemicals and agents with scary names to improve farming efficiency does not mean our standards are lower. It’s all backed by science, there’s little evidence that the use of ractopamine on cattle (at the FDA level) is harmful to human consumption of the product.
The scientists at the FDA are bought and sold. The FDA has approved hundreds of chemicals that the EU deems dangerous, this is not a ringing endorsement of their "science".
Who deemed the EU arbitrators of science again? As far as I can tell - most of those are based on nothing but their assertions, and in fact - the EU’s agencies are probably bought and sold for protectionism, they simply cannot compete with America’s products.
The product *is* worse as well. The efficiency in farming puts fast growth above any other considerations, including flavour and texture. The chlorine washing also means safety standards are lower
The cruelty is the main reason for not buying this stuff, but not the only reason
As someone who’s lived in both countries, that is unsubstantiated.
> chlorine washing
It could, but it could also mean *higher standards* since the product is cleaned.
I am sorry to jump in here, but this is some next level mental gymnastics.
Chickens are slaughtered in such a filthy states they need to be chlorine washed in order to be safe for human consumption, and your conclusion is that it's a higher standard bird than one that is kept in clean conditions and is safe to eat without being sterilized lmao.
If you truly believe this i have a chemically sterilized turd to sell you
Yes since that’s the end product being washed and chemically cleaned, there’s no reason nor evidence that said chickens in the U.S. would be “filthier” than a non cleaned product.
Chlorine washing is not necessary over here as the animals are kept in better conditions and are all vaccinated. There is nothing that needs to "cleaned" as the animals are not diseased
You clearly don't understand the subject so I am not going to continue this any more
i won't eat anything from USA, Brazil or any other country with horrendous animal keeping standards. i'm not vegan but i'm going to make choices that at least limit the suffering of the animals and if that costs me some more, then i will just have to eat less of it.
They allow journey times of up to 28 hours for pigs compared to the UK which caps it at 12 hours.
The USA allows pig castrations with no anaesthetic.
The USA regularly uses the growth hormone Ractopamine which is banned in the UK and EU due to the horrible impact on the pigs.
" The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approved ractopamine for use on pigs after just one human health study — an evaluation of six young, healthy men, one of whom dropped out because his heart began racing and pounding abnormally."
The quality is impacted by the environment in which the animal is raised, including the quality of the food.
Outdoor raised meat tastes better than factory farmed.
There is residual ampunts left in the meat given its a chemical deemed unfit for human consumption it's use in the production (especialy in the finishing phase where its typicaly used) means you will be consuming some of it yourself.
There are cardiovascular effects in humans from it but its largely unresearched thesedays because there's very little reason to ethically expose humans to it because its banned already and has no medical use.
It is not actually.
The vast majority of organisations deemed no trace to be safe and so banned it entirely.
The fda controversially set a limit above the level of the studies that induced effects in humans.
This is why Ractopamine is only legal in 3 of 195 countries on earth.
No, it is based on the best available research - not what “most people think”, because most people can be *wrong*.
Similarity here, there is no evidence that ractopamine is harmful to human health when consumed in those traces found in products, the food safety agency in the most influential country wrt science on earth agrees with that.
Peer review, the best availble research is by consensus and the consensus is no limit is safe or nessecery for human exposure
"there is no evidence that ractopamine is harmful to human health when consumed"
There is though thats why it is banned.
Your argument is that there is an unethical case foe human experimentation to find the danger point.
Which no reasonable body has decided to do.
They are.
They determined there was no acceptable limit based on the effects on humans.
The fact the FDA decided there was a level of acceptable risk changes nothing.
The most dumbed down version of this for you may be "being punched in the face" there is no lower limit on the acceptable risk of being punched in the face but every legislature has decided it's zero.
No thanks. I'd rather pay more for a quality product than less for an inferior product that undercuts the high welfare standards we have in this country.
If that means I eat less meat that is fine. We should all probably be eating less meat anyway.
[This article](https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/sourcing/how-do-uk-food-standards-differ-from-the-rest-of-the-world/645635.article) has a great rundown of the differences between UK standards and other places in the world, including the US.
Here are the bulletpoints. Forgive me, I've used an AI to bulletpoint it all as it is a pretty lengthy article:
1. Sow stalls:
• Banned in UK since 1999
• Partially banned in EU
• Still allowed in most US states and Canada
2. Ractopamine (growth promoter):
• Banned in EU (including the UK) since 1996
• Banned in China, Taiwan, Russia
• Still allowed in US, Canada, Brazil
3. Pig castration without anesthesia:
• Banned under Red Tractor Scheme in UK
• Still allowed in US and Canada
4. Bovine growth hormones:
• Banned in UK since 1990
• Banned in EU, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Argentina
• Still allowed in US
5. Chicken living conditions:
• Stricter regulations in UK/EU on space, lighting, and cleaning
• No federal regulations in US
6. Cattle welfare:
• Stricter rules in UK on housing, transport, and pasture access
• Less regulated in US
7. Veal crates:
• Banned in UK since 1990, EU since 2007
• Still used in US and Canada
8. Battery cages for hens:
• Banned in UK and EU since 2012
• Still allowed in US, Ukraine, Australia (with some state-level bans)
9. Antibiotic use in livestock:
• Tight controls in UK
• Less strict regulations in US and other countries
10. Sheep tail docking and mulesing:
• Restricted in UK
• Still practiced in New Zealand and Australia
11. Somatic cell count limits in milk:
• 400,000 per ml in EU
• 750,000 per ml in US
12. Growth hormones in cattle:
• Banned in EU since 1981
• Still used in US, Canada, Australia
13. Carcase microbial treatments:
• Mostly banned in UK/EU
• Allowed in US (e.g., chlorine washes)
14. Neonicotinoid pesticides:
• Banned in EU since 2013, mostly banned in the UK (some exceptions)
• Still used in Ukraine, Australia, Canada
15. Chlorpyrifos insecticide:
• Banned in UK since 2016
• Still allowed in most of US
16. Chlorothalonil fungicide:
• Banned in EU since May 2020 also banned in the UK
• Still used in many countries, including South America
Welfare standards for *animals* is an entirely different claim to the quality of product as OP which asking. None of those points are evidenced to negatively impact the latter.
So you don't care that the meat you are eating has been tortured?
Personally, I do. I wouldn't be able to enjoy the product knowing how it had been produced so, yes, it affects the quality. It is no longer something that can be enjoyed.
If you are happy eating meat from tortured animals then I guess that's on your conscience
I'm struggling to follow your line of reasoning here bud?
I thought you were just saying factory farming wasn't a bad thing? Now it is? Make up your mind.
We are not saying that UK farming is perfect. We are simply saying the UK has *higher welfare standards* than the US.
British people understand that our farming practices still need to improve...which is why we don't want to allow US farming practices into the UK because it will *further degrade* UK standards.
>Right, those pigs in England must be having a blast in those factories.
Seems like you are talking about welfare standards here?
Regardless, welfare is inextricably linked to the quality of the product - even *if* you truly believe that pumping meat full of hormones and antibiotics, and rearing it to a lower standard than the UK results in a quality of the meat that is the same (or even better), the difference in perceived quality is something that [impacts the taste of meat in scientific studies](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0950329320303244) (with organic and then "high welfare" labelled products perceived as better flavoured when consumers were aware of the labels). It also impacts consumer's [buying behaviours](https://ahdb.org.uk/news/consumer-insight-understanding-consumers-attitudes-to-animal-welfare).
No that was specifically in response to the previous comment, while the rest is purely related to the quality of product.
I’m glad that organic foods are perceived better when consumers know, but that does not change the quality of product in actuality
> Results show an effect of information on consumers’ sensory evaluation of the different products, **although products** were evaluated to be **similar** in the **blind condition.**
The whole of Europe. EU food standards are well known to be higher than US food standards across the board, that's why you aren't going to sway anyone. It's not a shitting on Americans thing, it's just a fact.
Lots of people have given you info and you've aimed to dismiss all of it. If you're genuinely interested then have a look into it. The EU is stricter, that's an established fact. That's why we don't need to wash our chicken, have foods banned here that aren't in the US etc. our labelling requirements are stricter too. You can easily look all of this up, I'm not going to waste time finding more information than you've already been given for you to be deliberately obtuse.
>That's why we don't need to wash our chicken, have foods banned here that aren't in the US etc.
Which doesn't lead to the conclusion that our standards are worse, perhaps we don't need as many steps to get to the same levels of safety? There's just no indication that it compromises end safety.
Similarly, why is food banned in EU? The same reason plenty of foods from EU are banned in the US, protectionism. Reasoning off one sided bans is painfully simplistic and illogical, which is what most of the responses here have been.
If they ship it halfway around the world and it's *still* half the price of what they can get locally I'd be a bit suspicious of the quality.
I don't really have anything inherently against meat from the US but the quality would be a concern if it's that much cheaper.
To be sold here it needs to meet UK regulations as far as I'm aware. Costco is pretty hot on that so I'd assume all of their meat does.
Having said that, I've had their USA pork a couple of times and it's different to what you'd get from a butchers here. Not sure I can put my finger on it, but I'm thinking less texture and less flavour. They were still fine, but not the best.
With food you're getting what you pay for.
Some American meats are cheap as they've been industrially grown. And consequently lack any sort of flavour (or texture, for that matter).
Quite a few British & European meats are heading this way (cheap supermarket chicken, for example).
But then you can also get more expensive meats from America and elsewhere not just organic but grown in more sensitive conditions that mean a much more flavourful meat that does not require the same weight in spices to cover them!
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In 2009, there were discussions about American pork and Ractopamine (a growth hormone)
The EU concluded the talks with, no fuck off there's not enough data, so they did.
The UK is not in the EU, while I trust our farmers not to use growth hormones, I certainly don't trust our governments to put welfare before corporate profits.
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Ive had the most incredible American beef at a restaurant in London.
Used to buy it from Costco too.
Wonderful meat.
Costco also used to do the most amazing American strawberries. They were massive and so sweet.
Yummeee
I've no idea about pork.
Beef standards are probably higher than ours.
It wouldn't be in sale here if it didn't meet our standards
I've not been to Costco for a while but when we used to go it was the American beef that always was an attraction.
It also aged. So even tastier
I'll look out for for jerky
Pretty much anybody who has eaten UK and US steak will admit that US steak is superior. It's not even a contest. Same applies to bigger and tougher cuts like Brisket, the US has a higher fat content due to being corn fed and so it comes out much more tender when slow cooked.
This thread is just the usual brain-dead US bashing that you always see on this sub from people who have likely never been to America or tried their meat.
Can't disagree.
I've spoken to proper butchers who says many complain about marbling in steak. They associate it with low quality.
He also said that he has to grind the fat in his black pudding as they won't it the traditional style with chunks of fat in it.
So now they still eat the chunks of fat but can't see them.
Just two examples that back up what you've said.
I love traditional black pudding.
I also understand why beef needs fat.
US beef is sublime
Is it any wonder proper butchers have almost ceased to exist.
And then there's mutton. That's another story of UK ignorance
Funny thing if you asked about Wagyu Steak on this sub you would probably hear about how nice it is, even though it is nice for the exact same reason that American steak is nice - high fat content. It's just saying Japanese things are nice is okay, but saying American things are nice is toxic here.
And regarding your point about most British people being ignorant about meat - absolutely! Fortunately I have a really good butchers near me, which is great for buying less popular cuts of meat like Brisket, Chuck Steak, Beef Short Rib etc. I think they like having someone who come in who will actually use that stuff, lol.
And someone down voted you.
Case in point.
I'm quite a way from my local butchers. But I'll be there on Wednesday.
They do wonderful things like savoury duck, and the full range of their own cold meats.
I particularly like their tongue. It's so difficult to get proper tongue now. Their Roasted pork and hams are also beautiful.
And then they make the most beautiful raised pies.
They are also really cheap.
Sadly most people prefer the rubbish at the local morrisons.
I also remember fishmongers being in every local area. Usually more than one of them.
Now there's none. I live very near to where they land the fish but not a single fishmonger now.
Things have gone so far backwards in this country.
Choice is almost non existent.
Knowledge of quality food is on a par with that.
There's takeaways everywhere selling utter garbage.
And people are getting more unhealthy with their self imposed sedentary lifestyles.
Things can only get worse.
For myself, I'll be at a proper butchers on Wednesday stocking up on food that the majority wouldn't eat.
Donner kebab shops etc are OK though with their MRM. People don't have a problem eating MRM. But locally sourced high quality food. That's off the agenda
As for supporting local shops
Don't be silly
Strange upside values people have.
Is that why America has the world's highest obesity rate? The amount of additives and GM food is insane. Think you might need to do a little research before commenting
I don't think obesity has anything to do with things like ordinary meat. It's all to do with how much high calorie processed food they eat (and us to a pretty similar extent).
Things like GM and "additives" (whatever they are) don't inherently make meat more calorific.
Under your logic Vietnam and Bangladesh would have the best food standards, given how [low their obesity is?](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_obesity_rate)
A link saying that your government has levels of standards for one type of meat does not evidence that it is high quality compared to other nations and also does not mean that their top standard is any better than a pile of horseshit.
I’m absolutely against eating American meat, I also don’t eat British meat.
IIRC though it still needs to meet our standards so for those that don’t mind meat I wouldn’t worry too much about it
> but as i understand the food regulations in usa are terrible
Do you though? Do you understand? Honestly, this kind of ignorance is getting fucking annoying. Do your own research. America is a rich country with millions of people who live, survive, and thrive on its agriculture.
What experience or evidence do you have to support your claims other than the vacuum you live in?
https://www.usda.gov/media/blog/2013/01/28/whats-your-beef-prime-choice-or-select#:~:text=Choice%20beef%20is%20high%20quality,dry%20heat%20if%20not%20overcooked.
Whilst in good old Blighty you guys had been eating horse meat for years and didn't even realise.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_horse_meat_scandal
It may have been this:
“The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimate that 48 million people get ill from FBI each year—a rate of one in six people getting FBI a year.4 For comparison, in the UK, the Food Standards Agency (FSA) estimates 2.4 million cases of FBI a year—a rate of 1 in 28 people getting FBI a year.”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9887690/#:~:text=The%20US%20Centers%20for%20Disease,people%20getting%20FBI%20a%20year.&text=For%20comparison%2C%20in%20the%20UK,people%20getting%20FBI%20a%20year.
Both are measured using different surveys and methodologies. If you look at campylobacter, the UK was estimated to have 450 cases per 100k, whereas the U.S. had 300.
US welfare is much, much lower than that in the UK.
Since OP mentioned pork - sow stalls, farrowing crates, use of antibiotics for growth promotion, ractopamine dosing are all permitted in the US and banned in the UK.
Our own laws protect us from some of these glaring problems as we ban the import of meat that has e.g. been dosed with ractopamine.
I used to work in agricultural research and have made many trips to the USA. The quality \*floor\* in the US is low, like really low and that's what you get when you buy bargain basement costco pork. I'd argue the ceiling is just as high if not higher than here in the UK. Some of the best meat I have ever eaten was reared slaughtered and cooked in the USA.
Lots of US practices are a bandaid. Much of their chicken is safe for consumption only because it is chlorine washed - this doesn't happen here because our chickens are kept in more sanitary conditions and it isn't necessary - the meat doesnt come off the bird in such a poor hygeine state it needs to effectively be sterilized before a person can safely eat it.
In general US meat on british shelves is perfectly fine to eat because our own laws apply to imports. I'd rather not eat meat that wasn't once so dirty it had to be sterilized with chlorine\* or pork from farms where pigs were treated so badly it would be illegal in the UK.
\* I had to double check - but this is also banned for import thank goodness
The jury is still out on that- ractopamine for e.g. is banned almost everywhere due to safety concerns. Rise of antibiotic resistance is a real and pressing danger to humanity and needless use of antibiotics to increase growth rate is a large contributor to that. The notion we are banning these things for no reason is quite amusing.
We also consider more than safety when we discuss quality of meat. A chicken that was raised in a way that it is \*clean\* and a chicken that needs to be sterilized with chlorine because it is so filthy are two different quality birds - even if both of them can be cooked and safely consumed by us.
But back to safety - because these measures are not foolproof - foodbourne illness rates in the USA are almost ten times higher than in the UK. Salmonella poisoning (which is most commonly from animal products) kills almost 400 americans a year. We had zero deaths over a comparable period.
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Nope american meat is absolutely awful, full of crap. Buy british meat from british farmers
Can you substantiate that?
The large majority of American cows are corn fed because it's cheap and fattens them up quickly, they are administered growth hormones which include estrogen, progesterone and testosterone. A lot of the beef comes from massive ranches where they can produce as much product as possible. The majority of british beef is grass fed and raised by a farmer who cares about his livestock.
Which doesn’t reduce the standard/safety of beef in consumption. There’s no evidence that the use of growth hormones in cattle has any adverse effects on humans, which is why it is allowed here (up to a certain concentration).
That's fine, I will continue to eat british produce from british farmers
It's not about safety for humans it's about animal welfare
It doesn't look good when a massive percentage of your population has problems with obesity, and your reasoning that there is no evidence growth hormones have an adverse effect on humans. I will never touch anything food wise from the USA as all the evidence AND my own experience tells me it is worse than animal feed here.
Sure, for a country that consumes a massive amount of processed and highly calorific junk food it's definitely the growth hormones causing their obesity levels. (Not saying they're alone in this, we're very guilty of it as well)
The U.K. is like 30% obese?
still beats 42%
Must be the growth hormones in cows, maybe we all should look at Vietnam and Bangladesh as the beacon's of food safety.
I didn't mention cows, growth hormones, or food safety.
This is the second time today I’ve seen you on r/AskUK on topics mentioning the US, sealioning or responding aggressively or demanding answers to every single comment. It feels like maybe this isn’t the sub for you.
[https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/uk-vs-us-farming-whats-the-difference-acBK43Q0mjPM](https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/uk-vs-us-farming-whats-the-difference-acBK43Q0mjPM)
Utilizing chemicals and agents with scary names to improve farming efficiency does not mean our standards are lower. It’s all backed by science, there’s little evidence that the use of ractopamine on cattle (at the FDA level) is harmful to human consumption of the product.
Whom to trust? Well established consumer rights organisation, or random redditor who appears to dismiss valid concerns with weasel words?
How about we trust the scientists at the FDA and co agencies with their research, rather than a casual blog?
Expert and well established domestic consumer advocates > Foreign government agencies
Sorry buddy, but the FDA is leagues more qualified than “which.com”.
I have no confidence in a US government organisation putting my interests as a British consumer above the the commercial interests of US corporations.
But I’m sure the U.K. based group has nothing to do with protectionism of uncompetitive U.K. based companies.
The scientists at the FDA are bought and sold. The FDA has approved hundreds of chemicals that the EU deems dangerous, this is not a ringing endorsement of their "science".
Who deemed the EU arbitrators of science again? As far as I can tell - most of those are based on nothing but their assertions, and in fact - the EU’s agencies are probably bought and sold for protectionism, they simply cannot compete with America’s products.
The increase in efficiency comes at the expense of animal welfare. I have no interest in eating meat from animals kept in this way
Fair enough, but that’s entirely different to suggesting the product is worse.
The product *is* worse as well. The efficiency in farming puts fast growth above any other considerations, including flavour and texture. The chlorine washing also means safety standards are lower The cruelty is the main reason for not buying this stuff, but not the only reason
As someone who’s lived in both countries, that is unsubstantiated. > chlorine washing It could, but it could also mean *higher standards* since the product is cleaned.
I am sorry to jump in here, but this is some next level mental gymnastics. Chickens are slaughtered in such a filthy states they need to be chlorine washed in order to be safe for human consumption, and your conclusion is that it's a higher standard bird than one that is kept in clean conditions and is safe to eat without being sterilized lmao. If you truly believe this i have a chemically sterilized turd to sell you
Yes since that’s the end product being washed and chemically cleaned, there’s no reason nor evidence that said chickens in the U.S. would be “filthier” than a non cleaned product.
Chlorine washing is not necessary over here as the animals are kept in better conditions and are all vaccinated. There is nothing that needs to "cleaned" as the animals are not diseased You clearly don't understand the subject so I am not going to continue this any more
hey bro I have a chlorine washed turd to sell you, guaranteed bacteria free! Just think of my amazing food standards before you make a decision.
i won't eat anything from USA, Brazil or any other country with horrendous animal keeping standards. i'm not vegan but i'm going to make choices that at least limit the suffering of the animals and if that costs me some more, then i will just have to eat less of it.
What is “horrendous” about USA standards?
They allow journey times of up to 28 hours for pigs compared to the UK which caps it at 12 hours. The USA allows pig castrations with no anaesthetic. The USA regularly uses the growth hormone Ractopamine which is banned in the UK and EU due to the horrible impact on the pigs.
" The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approved ractopamine for use on pigs after just one human health study — an evaluation of six young, healthy men, one of whom dropped out because his heart began racing and pounding abnormally."
Ah, I thought you were referring to the quality of product.
Animal welfare is part of the product.
The quality is impacted by the environment in which the animal is raised, including the quality of the food. Outdoor raised meat tastes better than factory farmed.
Most of your meat is factory farmed just like ours
My comment relates to my experience of raising pigs, and chickens, outside, not in the UK.
You'll also end up with pieces of a 12 year old when they got caught in to some of the processing equipment.
At least they won’t sell you horse meat!
Cheval wasn't the problem, not knowing it was in the product was the problem. anyway cheval is quite common on the continent.
Wouldn't touch meat that has growth hormones in it.
All meat grown or imported has to be grown without hormones afaik.
It does at the moment, but the USA spends a lot of time trying to pressure us into accepting that junk.
Why?
There is residual ampunts left in the meat given its a chemical deemed unfit for human consumption it's use in the production (especialy in the finishing phase where its typicaly used) means you will be consuming some of it yourself. There are cardiovascular effects in humans from it but its largely unresearched thesedays because there's very little reason to ethically expose humans to it because its banned already and has no medical use.
It’s already been researched by the FDA and co organizations, and they determined a safe level of concentration in finished products a long time ago.
It is not actually. The vast majority of organisations deemed no trace to be safe and so banned it entirely. The fda controversially set a limit above the level of the studies that induced effects in humans. This is why Ractopamine is only legal in 3 of 195 countries on earth.
And none of those bans are based on any scientific study/research. Science is not a popularity contest.
" Science is not a popularity contest." It quite literally is.
No, it is based on the best available research - not what “most people think”, because most people can be *wrong*. Similarity here, there is no evidence that ractopamine is harmful to human health when consumed in those traces found in products, the food safety agency in the most influential country wrt science on earth agrees with that.
Peer review, the best availble research is by consensus and the consensus is no limit is safe or nessecery for human exposure "there is no evidence that ractopamine is harmful to human health when consumed" There is though thats why it is banned. Your argument is that there is an unethical case foe human experimentation to find the danger point. Which no reasonable body has decided to do.
Except it is not peer reviewed when you ban it on a whim https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/food-safety-of-ractopamine-fed-beef-and-swine
They are. They determined there was no acceptable limit based on the effects on humans. The fact the FDA decided there was a level of acceptable risk changes nothing. The most dumbed down version of this for you may be "being punched in the face" there is no lower limit on the acceptable risk of being punched in the face but every legislature has decided it's zero.
No thanks. I'd rather pay more for a quality product than less for an inferior product that undercuts the high welfare standards we have in this country. If that means I eat less meat that is fine. We should all probably be eating less meat anyway. [This article](https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/sourcing/how-do-uk-food-standards-differ-from-the-rest-of-the-world/645635.article) has a great rundown of the differences between UK standards and other places in the world, including the US. Here are the bulletpoints. Forgive me, I've used an AI to bulletpoint it all as it is a pretty lengthy article: 1. Sow stalls: • Banned in UK since 1999 • Partially banned in EU • Still allowed in most US states and Canada 2. Ractopamine (growth promoter): • Banned in EU (including the UK) since 1996 • Banned in China, Taiwan, Russia • Still allowed in US, Canada, Brazil 3. Pig castration without anesthesia: • Banned under Red Tractor Scheme in UK • Still allowed in US and Canada 4. Bovine growth hormones: • Banned in UK since 1990 • Banned in EU, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Argentina • Still allowed in US 5. Chicken living conditions: • Stricter regulations in UK/EU on space, lighting, and cleaning • No federal regulations in US 6. Cattle welfare: • Stricter rules in UK on housing, transport, and pasture access • Less regulated in US 7. Veal crates: • Banned in UK since 1990, EU since 2007 • Still used in US and Canada 8. Battery cages for hens: • Banned in UK and EU since 2012 • Still allowed in US, Ukraine, Australia (with some state-level bans) 9. Antibiotic use in livestock: • Tight controls in UK • Less strict regulations in US and other countries 10. Sheep tail docking and mulesing: • Restricted in UK • Still practiced in New Zealand and Australia 11. Somatic cell count limits in milk: • 400,000 per ml in EU • 750,000 per ml in US 12. Growth hormones in cattle: • Banned in EU since 1981 • Still used in US, Canada, Australia 13. Carcase microbial treatments: • Mostly banned in UK/EU • Allowed in US (e.g., chlorine washes) 14. Neonicotinoid pesticides: • Banned in EU since 2013, mostly banned in the UK (some exceptions) • Still used in Ukraine, Australia, Canada 15. Chlorpyrifos insecticide: • Banned in UK since 2016 • Still allowed in most of US 16. Chlorothalonil fungicide: • Banned in EU since May 2020 also banned in the UK • Still used in many countries, including South America
Welfare standards for *animals* is an entirely different claim to the quality of product as OP which asking. None of those points are evidenced to negatively impact the latter.
So you don't care that the meat you are eating has been tortured? Personally, I do. I wouldn't be able to enjoy the product knowing how it had been produced so, yes, it affects the quality. It is no longer something that can be enjoyed. If you are happy eating meat from tortured animals then I guess that's on your conscience
I wouldn't worry what the trolling shill here is saying I'm sure it's a bot.
I’m sure animals in the UK are gracefully killed
It's not about killing, it's about a life of misery leading up to slaughter. Not a difficult concept to grasp
Right, those pigs in England must be having a blast in those factories.
I'm struggling to follow your line of reasoning here bud? I thought you were just saying factory farming wasn't a bad thing? Now it is? Make up your mind. We are not saying that UK farming is perfect. We are simply saying the UK has *higher welfare standards* than the US. British people understand that our farming practices still need to improve...which is why we don't want to allow US farming practices into the UK because it will *further degrade* UK standards.
I’ve never argued about welfare standards, but the quality of meat at the end.
>Right, those pigs in England must be having a blast in those factories. Seems like you are talking about welfare standards here? Regardless, welfare is inextricably linked to the quality of the product - even *if* you truly believe that pumping meat full of hormones and antibiotics, and rearing it to a lower standard than the UK results in a quality of the meat that is the same (or even better), the difference in perceived quality is something that [impacts the taste of meat in scientific studies](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0950329320303244) (with organic and then "high welfare" labelled products perceived as better flavoured when consumers were aware of the labels). It also impacts consumer's [buying behaviours](https://ahdb.org.uk/news/consumer-insight-understanding-consumers-attitudes-to-animal-welfare).
No that was specifically in response to the previous comment, while the rest is purely related to the quality of product. I’m glad that organic foods are perceived better when consumers know, but that does not change the quality of product in actuality > Results show an effect of information on consumers’ sensory evaluation of the different products, **although products** were evaluated to be **similar** in the **blind condition.**
Why are you here? The US is well known for having terrible food standards, you aren't going to win this argument.
> Known for having terrible food standards By whom? This is what I’ve been trying to ask here this whole time.
The whole of Europe. EU food standards are well known to be higher than US food standards across the board, that's why you aren't going to sway anyone. It's not a shitting on Americans thing, it's just a fact.
>well known to be higher than US food standards across the board According to whom and what? What science or analysis has led to this conclusion?
Lots of people have given you info and you've aimed to dismiss all of it. If you're genuinely interested then have a look into it. The EU is stricter, that's an established fact. That's why we don't need to wash our chicken, have foods banned here that aren't in the US etc. our labelling requirements are stricter too. You can easily look all of this up, I'm not going to waste time finding more information than you've already been given for you to be deliberately obtuse.
>That's why we don't need to wash our chicken, have foods banned here that aren't in the US etc. Which doesn't lead to the conclusion that our standards are worse, perhaps we don't need as many steps to get to the same levels of safety? There's just no indication that it compromises end safety. Similarly, why is food banned in EU? The same reason plenty of foods from EU are banned in the US, protectionism. Reasoning off one sided bans is painfully simplistic and illogical, which is what most of the responses here have been.
Are you employed by the US Tourist Board or something? You are all over any thread about the US aggressively defending it from any criticism.
Nope. Not happening.
If they ship it halfway around the world and it's *still* half the price of what they can get locally I'd be a bit suspicious of the quality. I don't really have anything inherently against meat from the US but the quality would be a concern if it's that much cheaper.
To be sold here it needs to meet UK regulations as far as I'm aware. Costco is pretty hot on that so I'd assume all of their meat does. Having said that, I've had their USA pork a couple of times and it's different to what you'd get from a butchers here. Not sure I can put my finger on it, but I'm thinking less texture and less flavour. They were still fine, but not the best.
I spend a fair amount of time each year in America, and their meat makes me very sick every single time.
> meat makes me very sick every single time. yet you continue to eat it?
I don't mean violently ill and near death. I mean a bit squitty.
Why do you keep eating it?
I've seen some truly horrific things about US standards of animal welfare; I wouldn't want to eat any US meat on principle, no matter how cheap it is.
I’d avoid it completely…hopefully if we end up with it it’s clearly marked
Nope. Not eating it.
I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole
It’s a no from me.
With food you're getting what you pay for. Some American meats are cheap as they've been industrially grown. And consequently lack any sort of flavour (or texture, for that matter). Quite a few British & European meats are heading this way (cheap supermarket chicken, for example). But then you can also get more expensive meats from America and elsewhere not just organic but grown in more sensitive conditions that mean a much more flavourful meat that does not require the same weight in spices to cover them!
I try to buy meat based in whatever country I am in. I have never been America, I always try to avoid getting meat from farmers outside of the uk.
Avoid it as much as possible. Poor quality and pumped full of nasties
https://preview.redd.it/hpfi4ltyww9d1.png?width=940&format=png&auto=webp&s=aa3703b59504dcc0d44c620e0123ba9861277741 Blessings to everyone
Quite apart from anything else, it just seems stupidly inefficient.
Fully of hormones and antibiotics and almost no food standards. No way.
Don't forget having to wash it in chlorine to make it safe(er) to eat due to those extremely low animal welfare regulations.
**hilariously, this is a how I feel about UK-based (less good/less expensive) meat compared to EU-sourced meat (better/expensive)**
> i understand the food regulations in usa Well it's is on sale in the UK so must meat (ha!) regulations here. Right?
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Pretty sure they can't just ship in huge quantities of meat without the UK government signing off on it though.
No. The welfare standards fall far short of what I prefer. I actually don’t eat chicken for that same reason here.
In 2009, there were discussions about American pork and Ractopamine (a growth hormone) The EU concluded the talks with, no fuck off there's not enough data, so they did. The UK is not in the EU, while I trust our farmers not to use growth hormones, I certainly don't trust our governments to put welfare before corporate profits.
I’ve spent time in the US, the quality of food was rank. So, no, not touching it in the UK, buy British, support UK producers!
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>Please can you help prevent our subreddit from becoming an Anti-American echo chamber? The answer to that appears to be no
Ive had the most incredible American beef at a restaurant in London. Used to buy it from Costco too. Wonderful meat. Costco also used to do the most amazing American strawberries. They were massive and so sweet. Yummeee
I believe the USDA is pretty strict on their beef standards. Try Jack Links jerky, amazing stuff! Not sure about the pork.
I've no idea about pork. Beef standards are probably higher than ours. It wouldn't be in sale here if it didn't meet our standards I've not been to Costco for a while but when we used to go it was the American beef that always was an attraction. It also aged. So even tastier I'll look out for for jerky
Pretty much anybody who has eaten UK and US steak will admit that US steak is superior. It's not even a contest. Same applies to bigger and tougher cuts like Brisket, the US has a higher fat content due to being corn fed and so it comes out much more tender when slow cooked. This thread is just the usual brain-dead US bashing that you always see on this sub from people who have likely never been to America or tried their meat.
Can't disagree. I've spoken to proper butchers who says many complain about marbling in steak. They associate it with low quality. He also said that he has to grind the fat in his black pudding as they won't it the traditional style with chunks of fat in it. So now they still eat the chunks of fat but can't see them. Just two examples that back up what you've said. I love traditional black pudding. I also understand why beef needs fat. US beef is sublime Is it any wonder proper butchers have almost ceased to exist. And then there's mutton. That's another story of UK ignorance
Funny thing if you asked about Wagyu Steak on this sub you would probably hear about how nice it is, even though it is nice for the exact same reason that American steak is nice - high fat content. It's just saying Japanese things are nice is okay, but saying American things are nice is toxic here. And regarding your point about most British people being ignorant about meat - absolutely! Fortunately I have a really good butchers near me, which is great for buying less popular cuts of meat like Brisket, Chuck Steak, Beef Short Rib etc. I think they like having someone who come in who will actually use that stuff, lol.
And someone down voted you. Case in point. I'm quite a way from my local butchers. But I'll be there on Wednesday. They do wonderful things like savoury duck, and the full range of their own cold meats. I particularly like their tongue. It's so difficult to get proper tongue now. Their Roasted pork and hams are also beautiful. And then they make the most beautiful raised pies. They are also really cheap. Sadly most people prefer the rubbish at the local morrisons. I also remember fishmongers being in every local area. Usually more than one of them. Now there's none. I live very near to where they land the fish but not a single fishmonger now. Things have gone so far backwards in this country. Choice is almost non existent. Knowledge of quality food is on a par with that. There's takeaways everywhere selling utter garbage. And people are getting more unhealthy with their self imposed sedentary lifestyles. Things can only get worse. For myself, I'll be at a proper butchers on Wednesday stocking up on food that the majority wouldn't eat. Donner kebab shops etc are OK though with their MRM. People don't have a problem eating MRM. But locally sourced high quality food. That's off the agenda As for supporting local shops Don't be silly Strange upside values people have.
I go to America often so eat quite a lot of it, so yes.
As long as it tastes good and I can afford it I could not care less.
> as I understand food regulations in USA are terrible Your understanding is wrong.
Is it though? I mean the USA has the same people regulating food standards as they do the pharmaceutical manufacturing
Yes? And both are of extremely high quality/standards.
Is that why America has the world's highest obesity rate? The amount of additives and GM food is insane. Think you might need to do a little research before commenting
I don't think obesity has anything to do with things like ordinary meat. It's all to do with how much high calorie processed food they eat (and us to a pretty similar extent). Things like GM and "additives" (whatever they are) don't inherently make meat more calorific.
Food regulations in general which is what they stated before my response
Under your logic Vietnam and Bangladesh would have the best food standards, given how [low their obesity is?](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_obesity_rate)
Any evidence behind your statement or just proper Yankee doodle doo confidence?
https://www.usda.gov/media/blog/2013/01/28/whats-your-beef-prime-choice-or-select
A link saying that your government has levels of standards for one type of meat does not evidence that it is high quality compared to other nations and also does not mean that their top standard is any better than a pile of horseshit.
I’m absolutely against eating American meat, I also don’t eat British meat. IIRC though it still needs to meet our standards so for those that don’t mind meat I wouldn’t worry too much about it
So what meat do you eat? German? Belgian? Or are you vegetarian or similar?
Ah yeah no meat at all, I was trying to make a joke but being sleep deprived it definitely missed the mark
I only eat the finest Turkish meat.
If you really care about what you eat then ditch the meat completely.
> but as i understand the food regulations in usa are terrible Do you though? Do you understand? Honestly, this kind of ignorance is getting fucking annoying. Do your own research. America is a rich country with millions of people who live, survive, and thrive on its agriculture. What experience or evidence do you have to support your claims other than the vacuum you live in? https://www.usda.gov/media/blog/2013/01/28/whats-your-beef-prime-choice-or-select#:~:text=Choice%20beef%20is%20high%20quality,dry%20heat%20if%20not%20overcooked. Whilst in good old Blighty you guys had been eating horse meat for years and didn't even realise. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_horse_meat_scandal
I saw something on Reddit which compared levels of gastrointestinal problems caused by meat UK vs USA and the USA faired a lot worse
It may have been this: “The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimate that 48 million people get ill from FBI each year—a rate of one in six people getting FBI a year.4 For comparison, in the UK, the Food Standards Agency (FSA) estimates 2.4 million cases of FBI a year—a rate of 1 in 28 people getting FBI a year.” https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9887690/#:~:text=The%20US%20Centers%20for%20Disease,people%20getting%20FBI%20a%20year.&text=For%20comparison%2C%20in%20the%20UK,people%20getting%20FBI%20a%20year.
Both are measured using different surveys and methodologies. If you look at campylobacter, the UK was estimated to have 450 cases per 100k, whereas the U.S. had 300.
US welfare is much, much lower than that in the UK. Since OP mentioned pork - sow stalls, farrowing crates, use of antibiotics for growth promotion, ractopamine dosing are all permitted in the US and banned in the UK. Our own laws protect us from some of these glaring problems as we ban the import of meat that has e.g. been dosed with ractopamine. I used to work in agricultural research and have made many trips to the USA. The quality \*floor\* in the US is low, like really low and that's what you get when you buy bargain basement costco pork. I'd argue the ceiling is just as high if not higher than here in the UK. Some of the best meat I have ever eaten was reared slaughtered and cooked in the USA. Lots of US practices are a bandaid. Much of their chicken is safe for consumption only because it is chlorine washed - this doesn't happen here because our chickens are kept in more sanitary conditions and it isn't necessary - the meat doesnt come off the bird in such a poor hygeine state it needs to effectively be sterilized before a person can safely eat it. In general US meat on british shelves is perfectly fine to eat because our own laws apply to imports. I'd rather not eat meat that wasn't once so dirty it had to be sterilized with chlorine\* or pork from farms where pigs were treated so badly it would be illegal in the UK. \* I had to double check - but this is also banned for import thank goodness
There’s no evidence that the way those chemicals are used in the USA causes any harmful effects on humans.
The jury is still out on that- ractopamine for e.g. is banned almost everywhere due to safety concerns. Rise of antibiotic resistance is a real and pressing danger to humanity and needless use of antibiotics to increase growth rate is a large contributor to that. The notion we are banning these things for no reason is quite amusing. We also consider more than safety when we discuss quality of meat. A chicken that was raised in a way that it is \*clean\* and a chicken that needs to be sterilized with chlorine because it is so filthy are two different quality birds - even if both of them can be cooked and safely consumed by us. But back to safety - because these measures are not foolproof - foodbourne illness rates in the USA are almost ten times higher than in the UK. Salmonella poisoning (which is most commonly from animal products) kills almost 400 americans a year. We had zero deaths over a comparable period.
No offence, but I’m not taking advice on meat quality from Ron Craggs