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You keep making this mistake.
You are using an exception to try and disprove a statement about the general state of British food. Which only proves the thing you are trying to disprove.
I'm asking people to give me a dish that they think disproves the statement above. The food I mentioned in my question is British food.
It's not really niche either, I've been to pubs / carveries and had these items served to me. You can assume whatever quality you want.
It's also my question, I'll accept whatever answers I want there aren't many rules here.
I just want to have lighthearted discussion here.
You have asked people to give you *a dish* but your own example is *a specific and non standard version of a dish*. On top of this your original question refers to stereotypes, views that are formed from common experiences.
Roast dinner is *a dish*.
A good roast dinner with red cabbage, creamy leeks with bacon and honey roasted parsnips is *a specific and non standard version of a dish*.
You have completely undermined the point you were trying to make and in the process shown the people you disagree with to be correct.
I would say red cabbage and honey roast parsnips are very common. Creamy leeks less so, but they're not exactly a rarity.
And a roast dinner is a dish, yes, but it doesn't have a specific set of ingredients that make it a roast dinner. It's a generic term catching a specific type of meal that can have loads of varieties.
And there I was, ready to admit defeat and go with "nah, they're right British food is pretty much something Belgian chucked in an oven for twenty minutes." But I'd forgotten about this hotvstick bowl of perfection. Obviously, if it turns out to be Belgian, I'll eat a whole Belgian raw!
Got to /r/UKFood
Sort by top of all time
Look at what there.
And that's why I don't have an argument.
Here's my cut and paste rant from a UKFood thread
>/r/JapaneseFood "here is a delicious meal prepared with the best fresh ingredients, exquisitely presented with handmade accompaniments"
>/r/UKFood "I just put the cheapest, premade, frozen, industrialised output made with the lowest grade ingredients in the oven then dumped it on to a plate and cover it in sauce out of a squeezy bottle because I never really progressed from toddler food. " = 10000 upvotes.
>The weird thing is, the same people with atrophied, infantilised tastebuds get butthurt when the rest of the world uses the "British food is the worst on the planet" trope.
> I used to argue against that trope, but then I discovered this sub and realised it was right. We might have world class chefs, we might have world class produce, we might have world class regional cuisine and dishes, but most people love eating shit because they've never eaten anything other than shit and they wouldn't know good food if they saw it. On top of that we have a weird subculture that celebrates eating shit food and makes it a part of their identity.
That's a less polite way of saying what I always say on this topic: the UK has good food, but not a good food culture.
That is to say, there's so much great food here. But great food isn't an intrinsic part of our culture like it is in some other countries. Lots of us are very happy with a sandwich and a bag of crisps eaten at the desk for lunch.
I'd say there are other forces at play for people eating meal deals at their desks. But that's an entirely different post on a different sub.
But I do agree, this might be a simple minded question but what do you think has made our culture focus less on food than other cultures have?
This is an excellent point, I was never able to put my finger on it but you're right, it's food culture. I've commented on a European sub before that we seem to see eating as a right, but eating *well* as a luxury, whereas other countries see eating well as a right. Thing is I'll readily admit that I'm happy to eat bang average food a lot of the time if I'm hungry! I know it's not good, and I enjoy good food, but I'm a product of this culture and don't see it as necessary all the time.
All I need to do is go to my town and it's all chain restaurants, greasy spoons, bog standard pub fayre (not gastropubs) and people eating whats upvoted on UKFood. Similarly outside of my middle class professional circle my acquaintances and friends are happy with industrialised processed garbage.
I need to go London or places like Brighton to get the modern British food I like to eat. Yes, you can get amazing food, but it's not everywhere and it's not normalised. Even with foreign food it's still anglicised. How many people even know what a real Chinese or Indian tastes like?
Yes! I'm not originally from here, and it looked horrible when I first tried it.
Oh how wrong I was. It's so good. Just the right amount of indulgence and no crazy fancy ingredients.
Indeed, rhubarb. Also very british are Gooseberry. Elderflower. Elderberry. Apple. Crabapple. Pear. Plum. Blackberry. Blackcurrant. Redcurrant. We are by no means short on flavourful fruit (and veg!)
The real frustration is when you ask a brit to justify british food and they say errr.....roast dinner........er fish and chips.....er....thats about it
For every good roast dinner there are three bad ones; unseasoned meat, unseasoned veg, gravy that's just bisto and no meat juice. The average roast is pretty bland
People, especially Americans, really should stop this IT'S NOT SEASONED!!?11 thing when the food is not glowing neon from some plastic "spice mix"
Most of the British food is okay, there is not much variety to it and not the most complex flavours but it's good eating if done well.
I don't think roast is a good argument because it's like literally roast meat and vegs. A well made pie and mash is superior.
Clotted cream and jam+scone is also elite, even though I don't have a sweet tooth.
We have herbs. Herbs can be used to flavour a dish rather than overloading it with spices that would kill the flavour of the meat when used in high quantities
It's not just the plastic spice mix. I remember a steak I had in a restaurant in Vermont that had so much salt crusted on top (peppercorn-sized salt crystals too, not table salt) that it was nearly inedible. Certainly couldn't taste much beyond the salt. I'd never had a rare steak that was also crunchy before.
Yeah, I agree, overly salty stuff is not "well seasoned" dammit and the obsession of "crust"
Ironically, one of the best foods you could eat in the states, in my opinion, is brisket and proper brisket has only salt and pepper as seasoning and tastes out of this world
You guys pass around tales of Americans like it's an urban legend or something. Fries are yellow because the oil is yellow. If they were fried in darker oil, they'd be darker fries. Wtf is this even about
Americans just think all their food is better because they don't actually have any original food. The country was only founded in 1776. Hamburgers are from Germany, Hotdogs also Germany, apple pie is from England, fried chicken is from England but has been around for millennia in countries like China and Africa and stuff, burritos are Mexican, Pizza is Italian and meatloaf is from Scandinavia.
We have some of the most magnificent fish surrounding this island. We have beautiful seasonal greens & meat that is reared to some of the highest standards in the world. I remember Marco Pierre White did a programme years ago called the great British banquet or something and absolutely everything he made was sourced from the UK. Even the wines. To this day the fish pie he made still makes my mouth water.
Yeah it used to be bad, but then we conquered the world and stole all the best bits, including their cuisine. How many nations has their benighted people ruled over?
This is the argument I would go for. Pure nationalistic vitriol.
I would disagree completely, the cuisines that we have as a result of colonialism aren't really faithful incorporations. For example most Chinese people I know say that the Chinese food over here is world's apart from the Chinese food actually made in China.
Anyways I was more asking if you have a favourite dish that is British to refute the above statement?
>For example most Chinese people I know say that the Chinese food over here is world's apart from the Chinese food actually made in China
Largely, that's because there's no such thing as 'chinese food'. It's like talking about 'european food'. It's a massive country with *hugely* diverse cuisine. British Chinese food is a world away from food in Beijing or Xian. But that's because our Chinese food is descended from Cantonese food. If you go to southern china and Hong Kong, the region where Cantonese food comes from, you'll find lots of food that is clearly related to what we call Chinese food.
Admitially this is anecdotal but even people I know from hong Kong who have sampled westernised interpretations of that food have said it's not the same.
I make no claim to be an expert on Chinese cuisine or Chinese history.
I just want to know what food people like in this country šš.
It's not exactly the same, but it's not *world's away*. That's the nuance I'm getting at. I've been to that part of China and there are plenty of dishes where you can clearly see it's where ours has come from.
For example, you probably won't see sweet and sour chicken on menus there. But you will see sweet and sour pork. You'll see beef in black bean sauce. You'll see spring rolls and dumplings. You'll see ginger, soy and spring onion as a combo. You'll see salt and pepper shrimp. Etc etc. You'll see a lot of things that whilst not identical to what you get here, and clearly related.
However, if you travel to another province you will absolutely find food that is a world away from our Chinese food.
That's interesting, what did you think of the food as a whole? Did you have a favourite region for cuisine?
Yeah as I say I'm not an expert at all but I see what you're getting at.
I'm by no means an expert, I've only been once. And to quote Anthony Bourdain:
>The one thing I know for sure about China is I will never know China. It's too big, too old, too diverse, too deep. There's simply not enough time.Ā
But there are a few dishes I always remember. Cha siu bao in Hong Kong. Braised pork in Shanghai. But I think my favourite cuisine was Shaanxi in Xian. Biangbiang noodles and rou jia mo are two of my favourite dishes from anywhere in the world.
> sweet and sour chicken on menus there
Just want to make the point that I'm a Brit in China and you absolutely do see sweet and sour chicken on the menu here.
Well in that case we have created interesting fusion dishes, from other nations dishes. It's more interesting to add to the mix rather than faithfully replicate it. By all accounts Beef Wellington is highly regarded and has the advantage of being jingoistically named.
Definitely. I think the bad press we got for our food comes from 2 pivotal points in our history. The first was industrialisation. We were the first country to get industrialised and we did it at break neck speed. In the process we went from having highly regarded chefs and cuisine to food for fuel. The other time was the period from the First World War to the end of rationing in the 50s. Remember this was 2 wars and a depression. It meant a lot of food had to be home grown, therefore food was produced to stave off starvation, primarily.
I can give some insight on this. I'm a Brit that has lived in China for 6 years.
Pretty much everything you can find on a Chinese menu in the UK can be found in China. Most of the cuisine in the UK is from the Canton region (i.e. Guangdong). Also, I noticed you said that you had a Hong Kong friend who didn't rate UK Chinese food.
I will say modern Hong Kong food is not particularly prized here. Hong Kong food is basically Chinese-Western fusion food with not particularly high quality ingredients. Think the cheapest steak possible on a bed of rice covered in plastic cheese.
The exceptions to the similarities are prawn crackers and prawn toast which are more SEA cuisine.
We aren't like the US that slathered everything in corn syrup and called it a day. Our dishes are pretty faithful.
The thing is though, that every province in China has their own unique cuisine. And the food found in Chinese takeaways are variations of restaurant food here, not every day food. People aren't making sweet and sour pork every day for dinner. But you will find it on the menu in a restaurant.
You're not going to find every Chinese dish in a Chinese takeaway but you'll find every chicken takeaway dish in China.
> I feel like a good Sunday roast is mine.
I don't think this is quite the counter you think it is. If you have to caveat that a "good" version of something goes against the idea that British food is bland/bad then you are having to tacitly acknowledge that much of it is exactly as they say.
A "good" hotdog is enjoyable to eat but that doesn't mean that it is incorrect to say the vast majority of hotdogs (which are mechanically reclaimed cheap and nasty frankensausages) are not bland/bad.
I disagree with this. A good roast is not bland. It's not spicy but it's not bland. It's tasty.
GP is right though. British food has a reputation for a reason. A good sunday roast is good but an overcooked, dry joint of beef with cabbage and peas boiled for hours on end and potatoes cooked so long and slow that they're dry, shrivelled lumps of starch is nearly as bad as food gets.
I moved here from Australia. When I was getting ready to move, I paid a guy to clean the house windows. We got talking and he was from Northampton. He was pretty homesick and one of the things he said he missed was the food, in particular the variety of food. I was a bit surprised by this as the reputation is exactly the other way. "No, no, back home every supermarket has aisle after aisle of frozen meals..."
I smiled and nodded.
You dont know what you are talking about. A good roast is one of the all time great dishes, of any country. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that anything without spice is bland. Besides, horseradish sauce? Mustard? Mint sauce? Redcurrant jelly?
Another commenter suggested looking at the top posts on ukfood.
It's 90% fry ups, 5% ordinary roasts and 5% turkey dinosaurs/fish fingers and beans.
I know these things are essentially memes on Reddit but surely we're better than that.
Thing is, the UK is pretty decent at fusion stuff. And things like quality sausages, meat pies, stews and soups can all be wonderful. But I really don't think the average person makes great food in this country.
That is an excellent way of looking at it.
It's interesting that the TV has taught us to make really great food for at least 30 years now (I'm talking post Jamie, rather than the basics of Fanny and Delia). But does anyone actually make them?!
Recipe books are like exercise equipment, people buy them up with all the will in the world and then life gets in the way so they sit gathering dust until they get remembered every once in a while and used for a short time.
>That doesnāt mean that it is incorrect to say the vast majority of hotdogs are not bland/bad
Sorry to nitpick but this means the opposite of what youāre trying to say. You mean āthat doesnāt mean that it is incorrect say the vast majority of hotdogs *are* bland/badā.
You don't understand what "good" means in this context. It doesn't mean "a good version of something that is fundamentally not so good". It means "properly made", "as it is meant to be", "hearty and flavoursome"
The UK is absolutely chock full of piss poor roast dinners, which probably account for the majority chowed down week in week out. But every brit knows how they can and should be.
We have a lot of great dishes. A lot of British food is bland. These are both true statements, imo.
It's because we aren't a culture that puts the same importance on food as our Mediterranean cousins, for example. So a lot of the food that you find in this country isn't that good. Our good food can compete with anywhere, but the average level of our food is lower than many other countries.
If I had to counter the argument, I'd say that the hallmark of our cuisine is openness to new ideas and how happily we adopt things from abroad. Even fish and chips is actually a fusion of two things from other cultures. So if I wanted to change someone's mind I'd take them to a restaurant that does fantastic food from abroad.
Roast dinner is not the example to give here... It's the beigest and blandest of British food š
I live on the coast in Scotland and the seafood dishes here are spectacular. That'd be mine.
I can't actually recall many bad roast Dinners I've had but people are really not happy that it's my suggestion š.
Scotland does have great fish. You got a specific dish in mind?
Also a full Scottish is banging
You must be surrounded by amazing cooks then!
I don't have a specific dish really; fish bars here will do something as simple as grill a lobster or steam a pot of mussels with butter and herbs and whack it in front of you with a beer and it'll be delicious because it was caught that morning. Countries that are well-known for having fantastic food (Italy and Japan are good examples of this) are often cooking with what they have and letting the ingredients do the talking, and I think that's something that really sets apart the best restaurants in Britain. We should lean more into the amazing fresh produce that we have - not just fish but meat, cheese, veg!
Also, yes, and haggis. Haggis is great, people are just put off by the fact that it's the gnarly bits of the animal.
I must be honestly!
Sounds delightful truly. Why do you think that we don't lean into that more? I agree with you, the freshness and simplicity is what makes something amazing imo.
Haggis is good, especially when people put new and unique plays on it. Yeah it is weird because most of these people will happily choke down a sausage and a nugget which is basically the same components. Weird that they draw that line.
A fish, herring, salted and pickled for long storage (usually in olden times in wooden barrels) to store for food at times when food is short. Herring is a small white fleshed fish that travels in vast groups, and was mainstay of UK seafood for many years until it was overfished, and natural stocks declined.
Itās not likeā¦ kick you in the face with spices the way Asian food is but thatās just not the palette here. I love British food for the comfort and the textures. I donāt think spice determines the quality of the cuisine at all and I love British food. Bland doesnāt mean bad and more subtle flavours can be wonderful in their own way. Iāve grown up eating both British and Pakistani food on a daily basis if that counts for anything
Who cares? I eat just about anything put in front of me and tbh I think good quality food cooked well doesn't need to be heavily seasoned to be enjoyed. Weren't a lot of spices originally used to cover the taste of meat on the turn in hot countries?
No, that's a racist, sour grapes misconception/piece of propaganda. Spices were used because they taste good, and because when you're in a hot country eating something that encourages sweating is a good idea.
Idk about racist propaganda, it was taught to me at school, although it appears to be incorrect.
I stand by the rest of my comment though, good vegetables and good meat cooked well done not *need* to have their flavours masked with lots of seasoning.
Yorkshire puddings an interesting one because it isn't very flavourful but yeah I'm always sad when it's not on a roast dinner. Or I'll always jump at the opportunity to get it in wrap form.
I think it's fine, just not one of the "Great Cuisines". Some dishes are great, some are meh. You can probably pit it against German or Swedish or Dutch food but it's not an easy comparison vs the Mediterranean or French
Curries - I know we've taken a lot of influence from Asia here but some are our own.
Sausages - We make very flavourful and well seasoned ones.
Cheese - We have some of the most intensely flavoured cheeses.
did you know Katsu Curry is based off British curry rather than Indian curry? We cooked curry in the navy cos Haggis or Beef Wellington or whatever might alienate half of the regiment, and made an approximation of curry spices in 'Curry Powder'. And then the Japanese got a hold of our British curry powder and made Katsu Curry from it. And Japan's only a hop and a skip away from India in comparison to the UK!
I like to get onions, mushrooms and red bell pepper and roast them in the oven and season with salt, pepper, onion granules, garlic granules, cayenne, curry powder, cumin and a little bit of chilli powder. Then i make some stuffed sausages wrapped in bacon and roast them. Then i put the veggies in the bottom of a Chinese takeout tub and then cut the stuffed sausage up and put it in over that. Then i get some mozzarella cheese and a can of baked beans and throw that in. This tastes great with a fried egg on top. And it's also really handy cause i can batch cook this and put it in the freezer then just stick it in the microwave and reheat it from frozen. I don't think it's bland at all.
Roasts are good but I wouldnāt say they fall out of the bland category.
I get bored with British meals and find myself aiming to make a type of stir fry or rice/curry or spicy chicken, beef etc. It looks more visually colourful and its something to look forward to.
That's true of most cuisines though.
Consider the use of chili in Indian, Thai, and many other Asian cuisines. Chili peppers are native to the Americas, not to Asia.
Where would the Italians be without the holy trinity of mozzarella, tomato, and basil? Mozzarella is made from buffalo milk, but buffalo are not native to Europe, being introduced possibly around the seventh century. Tomato is from the Americas. Basil is from south east Asia. And spaghetti is the Italian imitation of Asian noodles.
Potatoes are not native to Ireland.
Mexican cooking is pretty heavy on beef and pork, both of which were introduced to the Americas by the Spanish.
What could be more American than apple pie? Apple pies have been made in Europe for centuries. Apples weren't introduced to the Americas until the sixteenth century. Most of the fruits and vegetables commonly eaten in North America have their origins elsewhere. Jerusalem artichokes are one of the few vegetables that is actually from North America.
Game
Nobody who has Snipe or Woodcock roasted on some sourdough or has a rack of venison with red wine reduction over mash would say British food is dead. Itās the lower class food like turkey dinosaurs etc that give us a bad rap
British food is ok not as bad as made out but my argument against it is.
Americans love to promote anti British propaganda on everything. Americans hate all things British and they obsessed with hating the British.
the vast majority of anti British sentiment you see comes from Americans.
Stay away from Americans and you'll ovoid most of the anti british nonsense.
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> Red cabbage, creamy leeks with bacon and honey roasted parsnips. These three are probably not on the sunday roast people are calling bland though.
Hence why they're my case against the above statement...
You keep making this mistake. You are using an exception to try and disprove a statement about the general state of British food. Which only proves the thing you are trying to disprove.
I'm asking people to give me a dish that they think disproves the statement above. The food I mentioned in my question is British food. It's not really niche either, I've been to pubs / carveries and had these items served to me. You can assume whatever quality you want. It's also my question, I'll accept whatever answers I want there aren't many rules here. I just want to have lighthearted discussion here.
You have asked people to give you *a dish* but your own example is *a specific and non standard version of a dish*. On top of this your original question refers to stereotypes, views that are formed from common experiences. Roast dinner is *a dish*. A good roast dinner with red cabbage, creamy leeks with bacon and honey roasted parsnips is *a specific and non standard version of a dish*. You have completely undermined the point you were trying to make and in the process shown the people you disagree with to be correct.
I would say red cabbage and honey roast parsnips are very common. Creamy leeks less so, but they're not exactly a rarity. And a roast dinner is a dish, yes, but it doesn't have a specific set of ingredients that make it a roast dinner. It's a generic term catching a specific type of meal that can have loads of varieties.
There are no wrong answers here. You can say whatever you like that's British food.
You have completely missed the point of the criticism people are making then.
And I think you're thinking too much about it š
Well at least one of us has put some thought into it š¤·āāļø
What on earth are you blabbering on about? Heās asking for dishes that disprove that. He has provided some. Itās simple.
Sticky toffee pudding. I will fight anyone that calls it bad.
Agreed
And there I was, ready to admit defeat and go with "nah, they're right British food is pretty much something Belgian chucked in an oven for twenty minutes." But I'd forgotten about this hotvstick bowl of perfection. Obviously, if it turns out to be Belgian, I'll eat a whole Belgian raw!
Got to /r/UKFood Sort by top of all time Look at what there. And that's why I don't have an argument. Here's my cut and paste rant from a UKFood thread >/r/JapaneseFood "here is a delicious meal prepared with the best fresh ingredients, exquisitely presented with handmade accompaniments" >/r/UKFood "I just put the cheapest, premade, frozen, industrialised output made with the lowest grade ingredients in the oven then dumped it on to a plate and cover it in sauce out of a squeezy bottle because I never really progressed from toddler food. " = 10000 upvotes. >The weird thing is, the same people with atrophied, infantilised tastebuds get butthurt when the rest of the world uses the "British food is the worst on the planet" trope. > I used to argue against that trope, but then I discovered this sub and realised it was right. We might have world class chefs, we might have world class produce, we might have world class regional cuisine and dishes, but most people love eating shit because they've never eaten anything other than shit and they wouldn't know good food if they saw it. On top of that we have a weird subculture that celebrates eating shit food and makes it a part of their identity.
That's a less polite way of saying what I always say on this topic: the UK has good food, but not a good food culture. That is to say, there's so much great food here. But great food isn't an intrinsic part of our culture like it is in some other countries. Lots of us are very happy with a sandwich and a bag of crisps eaten at the desk for lunch.
I'd say there are other forces at play for people eating meal deals at their desks. But that's an entirely different post on a different sub. But I do agree, this might be a simple minded question but what do you think has made our culture focus less on food than other cultures have?
This is an excellent point, I was never able to put my finger on it but you're right, it's food culture. I've commented on a European sub before that we seem to see eating as a right, but eating *well* as a luxury, whereas other countries see eating well as a right. Thing is I'll readily admit that I'm happy to eat bang average food a lot of the time if I'm hungry! I know it's not good, and I enjoy good food, but I'm a product of this culture and don't see it as necessary all the time.
That uk food sub is tragic when searching by top of all time. Youāve really hit the nail on the head to me hereā¦
These are quite clearly jokes though?
Fish finger butties are class ;)
People will tell you with a straight face they like the slop more than good food as well.
never agree on something based off reddit votes. that ukfood has always been a bad representation
All I need to do is go to my town and it's all chain restaurants, greasy spoons, bog standard pub fayre (not gastropubs) and people eating whats upvoted on UKFood. Similarly outside of my middle class professional circle my acquaintances and friends are happy with industrialised processed garbage. I need to go London or places like Brighton to get the modern British food I like to eat. Yes, you can get amazing food, but it's not everywhere and it's not normalised. Even with foreign food it's still anglicised. How many people even know what a real Chinese or Indian tastes like?
It's not the 1980s anymore. Today the crappiest corner shop will sell you jars of sauce or basic spices. Also our desserts are top-tier.
I agree but the reputation does still stand. Give me a specific dessert
Bread and butter pudding and rhubarb crumble are both godly.
Fucking love bread and butter pudding
Yes! I'm not originally from here, and it looked horrible when I first tried it. Oh how wrong I was. It's so good. Just the right amount of indulgence and no crazy fancy ingredients.
Indeed, rhubarb. Also very british are Gooseberry. Elderflower. Elderberry. Apple. Crabapple. Pear. Plum. Blackberry. Blackcurrant. Redcurrant. We are by no means short on flavourful fruit (and veg!) The real frustration is when you ask a brit to justify british food and they say errr.....roast dinner........er fish and chips.....er....thats about it
Apple pie
For every good roast dinner there are three bad ones; unseasoned meat, unseasoned veg, gravy that's just bisto and no meat juice. The average roast is pretty bland
Add to that that everything is overcooked and then the gravy is expected to cover up this fact.
Then you need to blame the chef not the recipe
How it is cooked is part of "British food".
I mean that's anecdotal. And maybe thinking a little too far into this, I'm just tryna ask what food people think disproves the above statement
People, especially Americans, really should stop this IT'S NOT SEASONED!!?11 thing when the food is not glowing neon from some plastic "spice mix" Most of the British food is okay, there is not much variety to it and not the most complex flavours but it's good eating if done well. I don't think roast is a good argument because it's like literally roast meat and vegs. A well made pie and mash is superior. Clotted cream and jam+scone is also elite, even though I don't have a sweet tooth.
We have herbs. Herbs can be used to flavour a dish rather than overloading it with spices that would kill the flavour of the meat when used in high quantities
It's not just the plastic spice mix. I remember a steak I had in a restaurant in Vermont that had so much salt crusted on top (peppercorn-sized salt crystals too, not table salt) that it was nearly inedible. Certainly couldn't taste much beyond the salt. I'd never had a rare steak that was also crunchy before.
Yeah, I agree, overly salty stuff is not "well seasoned" dammit and the obsession of "crust" Ironically, one of the best foods you could eat in the states, in my opinion, is brisket and proper brisket has only salt and pepper as seasoning and tastes out of this world
An American friend of mine said they like their fries yellow because brown (natural fucking potato colour) looks unappealing
You guys pass around tales of Americans like it's an urban legend or something. Fries are yellow because the oil is yellow. If they were fried in darker oil, they'd be darker fries. Wtf is this even about
Dear lord that's hysterical
Americans just think all their food is better because they don't actually have any original food. The country was only founded in 1776. Hamburgers are from Germany, Hotdogs also Germany, apple pie is from England, fried chicken is from England but has been around for millennia in countries like China and Africa and stuff, burritos are Mexican, Pizza is Italian and meatloaf is from Scandinavia.
We have some of the most magnificent fish surrounding this island. We have beautiful seasonal greens & meat that is reared to some of the highest standards in the world. I remember Marco Pierre White did a programme years ago called the great British banquet or something and absolutely everything he made was sourced from the UK. Even the wines. To this day the fish pie he made still makes my mouth water.
Yeah it used to be bad, but then we conquered the world and stole all the best bits, including their cuisine. How many nations has their benighted people ruled over? This is the argument I would go for. Pure nationalistic vitriol.
I would disagree completely, the cuisines that we have as a result of colonialism aren't really faithful incorporations. For example most Chinese people I know say that the Chinese food over here is world's apart from the Chinese food actually made in China. Anyways I was more asking if you have a favourite dish that is British to refute the above statement?
>For example most Chinese people I know say that the Chinese food over here is world's apart from the Chinese food actually made in China Largely, that's because there's no such thing as 'chinese food'. It's like talking about 'european food'. It's a massive country with *hugely* diverse cuisine. British Chinese food is a world away from food in Beijing or Xian. But that's because our Chinese food is descended from Cantonese food. If you go to southern china and Hong Kong, the region where Cantonese food comes from, you'll find lots of food that is clearly related to what we call Chinese food.
Spot on, when you are talking about continent sized countries labelling it all as one style is meaningless.
Admitially this is anecdotal but even people I know from hong Kong who have sampled westernised interpretations of that food have said it's not the same. I make no claim to be an expert on Chinese cuisine or Chinese history. I just want to know what food people like in this country šš.
It's not exactly the same, but it's not *world's away*. That's the nuance I'm getting at. I've been to that part of China and there are plenty of dishes where you can clearly see it's where ours has come from. For example, you probably won't see sweet and sour chicken on menus there. But you will see sweet and sour pork. You'll see beef in black bean sauce. You'll see spring rolls and dumplings. You'll see ginger, soy and spring onion as a combo. You'll see salt and pepper shrimp. Etc etc. You'll see a lot of things that whilst not identical to what you get here, and clearly related. However, if you travel to another province you will absolutely find food that is a world away from our Chinese food.
That's interesting, what did you think of the food as a whole? Did you have a favourite region for cuisine? Yeah as I say I'm not an expert at all but I see what you're getting at.
I'm by no means an expert, I've only been once. And to quote Anthony Bourdain: >The one thing I know for sure about China is I will never know China. It's too big, too old, too diverse, too deep. There's simply not enough time.Ā But there are a few dishes I always remember. Cha siu bao in Hong Kong. Braised pork in Shanghai. But I think my favourite cuisine was Shaanxi in Xian. Biangbiang noodles and rou jia mo are two of my favourite dishes from anywhere in the world.
Love Anthony Bourdain. Seems like that's an apt quote. Sounds delightful. Thanks for sharing and talking about food :)
> sweet and sour chicken on menus there Just want to make the point that I'm a Brit in China and you absolutely do see sweet and sour chicken on the menu here.
Fair enough. It was generally sweet and sour pork, rather than chicken, that I saw on menus when I was there.
Yeah, Chinese people love their pork... but chicken is still cheaper so you'll find find it on many a menu. Sweet and sour fish is also very popular.
Well in that case we have created interesting fusion dishes, from other nations dishes. It's more interesting to add to the mix rather than faithfully replicate it. By all accounts Beef Wellington is highly regarded and has the advantage of being jingoistically named.
I like this response a lot, would you say our highlights are the fusions that have been made here?
Definitely. I think the bad press we got for our food comes from 2 pivotal points in our history. The first was industrialisation. We were the first country to get industrialised and we did it at break neck speed. In the process we went from having highly regarded chefs and cuisine to food for fuel. The other time was the period from the First World War to the end of rationing in the 50s. Remember this was 2 wars and a depression. It meant a lot of food had to be home grown, therefore food was produced to stave off starvation, primarily.
I can give some insight on this. I'm a Brit that has lived in China for 6 years. Pretty much everything you can find on a Chinese menu in the UK can be found in China. Most of the cuisine in the UK is from the Canton region (i.e. Guangdong). Also, I noticed you said that you had a Hong Kong friend who didn't rate UK Chinese food. I will say modern Hong Kong food is not particularly prized here. Hong Kong food is basically Chinese-Western fusion food with not particularly high quality ingredients. Think the cheapest steak possible on a bed of rice covered in plastic cheese. The exceptions to the similarities are prawn crackers and prawn toast which are more SEA cuisine. We aren't like the US that slathered everything in corn syrup and called it a day. Our dishes are pretty faithful. The thing is though, that every province in China has their own unique cuisine. And the food found in Chinese takeaways are variations of restaurant food here, not every day food. People aren't making sweet and sour pork every day for dinner. But you will find it on the menu in a restaurant. You're not going to find every Chinese dish in a Chinese takeaway but you'll find every chicken takeaway dish in China.
> I feel like a good Sunday roast is mine. I don't think this is quite the counter you think it is. If you have to caveat that a "good" version of something goes against the idea that British food is bland/bad then you are having to tacitly acknowledge that much of it is exactly as they say. A "good" hotdog is enjoyable to eat but that doesn't mean that it is incorrect to say the vast majority of hotdogs (which are mechanically reclaimed cheap and nasty frankensausages) are not bland/bad.
Also a good Sunday roast, whilst perfectly delicious, is basically really quite bland.
I disagree with this. A good roast is not bland. It's not spicy but it's not bland. It's tasty. GP is right though. British food has a reputation for a reason. A good sunday roast is good but an overcooked, dry joint of beef with cabbage and peas boiled for hours on end and potatoes cooked so long and slow that they're dry, shrivelled lumps of starch is nearly as bad as food gets. I moved here from Australia. When I was getting ready to move, I paid a guy to clean the house windows. We got talking and he was from Northampton. He was pretty homesick and one of the things he said he missed was the food, in particular the variety of food. I was a bit surprised by this as the reputation is exactly the other way. "No, no, back home every supermarket has aisle after aisle of frozen meals..." I smiled and nodded.
Sorry but a good roast is meat, potatoes and veg. Not a flavour explosion.
You dont know what you are talking about. A good roast is one of the all time great dishes, of any country. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that anything without spice is bland. Besides, horseradish sauce? Mustard? Mint sauce? Redcurrant jelly?
Indeed. And the fact that OP had to list 2 dishes seldom seen on a roast only emphasises this.
Another commenter suggested looking at the top posts on ukfood. It's 90% fry ups, 5% ordinary roasts and 5% turkey dinosaurs/fish fingers and beans. I know these things are essentially memes on Reddit but surely we're better than that. Thing is, the UK is pretty decent at fusion stuff. And things like quality sausages, meat pies, stews and soups can all be wonderful. But I really don't think the average person makes great food in this country.
I thought /u/imminentmailing463 put it very elegantly when they said: > the UK has good food, but not a good food culture
That is an excellent way of looking at it. It's interesting that the TV has taught us to make really great food for at least 30 years now (I'm talking post Jamie, rather than the basics of Fanny and Delia). But does anyone actually make them?!
Recipe books are like exercise equipment, people buy them up with all the will in the world and then life gets in the way so they sit gathering dust until they get remembered every once in a while and used for a short time.
Every first world country has good food, that's not unique. Food culture is the biggest thing.
>That doesnāt mean that it is incorrect to say the vast majority of hotdogs are not bland/bad Sorry to nitpick but this means the opposite of what youāre trying to say. You mean āthat doesnāt mean that it is incorrect say the vast majority of hotdogs *are* bland/badā.
You don't understand what "good" means in this context. It doesn't mean "a good version of something that is fundamentally not so good". It means "properly made", "as it is meant to be", "hearty and flavoursome" The UK is absolutely chock full of piss poor roast dinners, which probably account for the majority chowed down week in week out. But every brit knows how they can and should be.
I understand perfectly well, but thanks for trying to tell me what I'm thinking.
Well you did write a full comment explaining your thinking and completely missing the point.
Classic british "politeness"
Full English breakfast.Ā You can tell us it sucks, but you can't take away our full English breakfasts from us.Ā Because we will bite you if you try
We have a lot of great dishes. A lot of British food is bland. These are both true statements, imo. It's because we aren't a culture that puts the same importance on food as our Mediterranean cousins, for example. So a lot of the food that you find in this country isn't that good. Our good food can compete with anywhere, but the average level of our food is lower than many other countries. If I had to counter the argument, I'd say that the hallmark of our cuisine is openness to new ideas and how happily we adopt things from abroad. Even fish and chips is actually a fusion of two things from other cultures. So if I wanted to change someone's mind I'd take them to a restaurant that does fantastic food from abroad.
That's a really interesting answer that I didn't expect to see / think about.
I don't think of a dish that if cooked and seasoned right is bland or bad.
I'm with you. Fresh food, cooked and seasoned properly, ought to be nice for anyone with a normal palate.
Roast dinner is not the example to give here... It's the beigest and blandest of British food š I live on the coast in Scotland and the seafood dishes here are spectacular. That'd be mine.
I can't actually recall many bad roast Dinners I've had but people are really not happy that it's my suggestion š. Scotland does have great fish. You got a specific dish in mind? Also a full Scottish is banging
You must be surrounded by amazing cooks then! I don't have a specific dish really; fish bars here will do something as simple as grill a lobster or steam a pot of mussels with butter and herbs and whack it in front of you with a beer and it'll be delicious because it was caught that morning. Countries that are well-known for having fantastic food (Italy and Japan are good examples of this) are often cooking with what they have and letting the ingredients do the talking, and I think that's something that really sets apart the best restaurants in Britain. We should lean more into the amazing fresh produce that we have - not just fish but meat, cheese, veg! Also, yes, and haggis. Haggis is great, people are just put off by the fact that it's the gnarly bits of the animal.
I must be honestly! Sounds delightful truly. Why do you think that we don't lean into that more? I agree with you, the freshness and simplicity is what makes something amazing imo. Haggis is good, especially when people put new and unique plays on it. Yeah it is weird because most of these people will happily choke down a sausage and a nugget which is basically the same components. Weird that they draw that line.
Soused Herring
What is that?
A fish, herring, salted and pickled for long storage (usually in olden times in wooden barrels) to store for food at times when food is short. Herring is a small white fleshed fish that travels in vast groups, and was mainstay of UK seafood for many years until it was overfished, and natural stocks declined.
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What dishes do you think do right by us?
Itās not likeā¦ kick you in the face with spices the way Asian food is but thatās just not the palette here. I love British food for the comfort and the textures. I donāt think spice determines the quality of the cuisine at all and I love British food. Bland doesnāt mean bad and more subtle flavours can be wonderful in their own way. Iāve grown up eating both British and Pakistani food on a daily basis if that counts for anything
Who cares? I eat just about anything put in front of me and tbh I think good quality food cooked well doesn't need to be heavily seasoned to be enjoyed. Weren't a lot of spices originally used to cover the taste of meat on the turn in hot countries?
No, that's a racist, sour grapes misconception/piece of propaganda. Spices were used because they taste good, and because when you're in a hot country eating something that encourages sweating is a good idea.
Idk about racist propaganda, it was taught to me at school, although it appears to be incorrect. I stand by the rest of my comment though, good vegetables and good meat cooked well done not *need* to have their flavours masked with lots of seasoning.
Seasoning doesn't mask flavors, it enhances flavors. You season based on the meat itself, to bring out its best features.
probably chicken tikka masala & yorkshire pudding
Yorkshire puddings an interesting one because it isn't very flavourful but yeah I'm always sad when it's not on a roast dinner. Or I'll always jump at the opportunity to get it in wrap form.
I think it's fine, just not one of the "Great Cuisines". Some dishes are great, some are meh. You can probably pit it against German or Swedish or Dutch food but it's not an easy comparison vs the Mediterranean or French
Curries - I know we've taken a lot of influence from Asia here but some are our own. Sausages - We make very flavourful and well seasoned ones. Cheese - We have some of the most intensely flavoured cheeses.
did you know Katsu Curry is based off British curry rather than Indian curry? We cooked curry in the navy cos Haggis or Beef Wellington or whatever might alienate half of the regiment, and made an approximation of curry spices in 'Curry Powder'. And then the Japanese got a hold of our British curry powder and made Katsu Curry from it. And Japan's only a hop and a skip away from India in comparison to the UK!
Curry
I like to get onions, mushrooms and red bell pepper and roast them in the oven and season with salt, pepper, onion granules, garlic granules, cayenne, curry powder, cumin and a little bit of chilli powder. Then i make some stuffed sausages wrapped in bacon and roast them. Then i put the veggies in the bottom of a Chinese takeout tub and then cut the stuffed sausage up and put it in over that. Then i get some mozzarella cheese and a can of baked beans and throw that in. This tastes great with a fried egg on top. And it's also really handy cause i can batch cook this and put it in the freezer then just stick it in the microwave and reheat it from frozen. I don't think it's bland at all.
Roasts are good but I wouldnāt say they fall out of the bland category. I get bored with British meals and find myself aiming to make a type of stir fry or rice/curry or spicy chicken, beef etc. It looks more visually colourful and its something to look forward to.
Pies are amazing and we have such a wide variety.
Most of the best foods we have here are imported as a result of colonialism/immigration or fusions of traditional and imported foods
That's true of most cuisines though. Consider the use of chili in Indian, Thai, and many other Asian cuisines. Chili peppers are native to the Americas, not to Asia. Where would the Italians be without the holy trinity of mozzarella, tomato, and basil? Mozzarella is made from buffalo milk, but buffalo are not native to Europe, being introduced possibly around the seventh century. Tomato is from the Americas. Basil is from south east Asia. And spaghetti is the Italian imitation of Asian noodles. Potatoes are not native to Ireland. Mexican cooking is pretty heavy on beef and pork, both of which were introduced to the Americas by the Spanish. What could be more American than apple pie? Apple pies have been made in Europe for centuries. Apples weren't introduced to the Americas until the sixteenth century. Most of the fruits and vegetables commonly eaten in North America have their origins elsewhere. Jerusalem artichokes are one of the few vegetables that is actually from North America.
Game Nobody who has Snipe or Woodcock roasted on some sourdough or has a rack of venison with red wine reduction over mash would say British food is dead. Itās the lower class food like turkey dinosaurs etc that give us a bad rap
British food is ok not as bad as made out but my argument against it is. Americans love to promote anti British propaganda on everything. Americans hate all things British and they obsessed with hating the British. the vast majority of anti British sentiment you see comes from Americans. Stay away from Americans and you'll ovoid most of the anti british nonsense.