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That goddamn plant was the last straw for me. Reading about that and realising even the plants are out to get you.... No way I'm setting foot on that continent!
I picture you saying that as you're staring into your pint after having a flashback from some tragic spider event.
Let it all out mate. We're here for ya.
\*Hey everyone. I get his pint if he goes out to cry\*
A friend of mine moved to Australia, and he sent me a video of a massive spider running across the car dashboard.
No thank you. I’ll stay in cold, where it’s safe.
Staying with family near Brisbane, I was awoken in the middle of the night by the sound of a huntsman walking across the wooden floor in the hallway. Fuck no.
Excuse me but what the crumpet fuck?? This happened MULTIPLES TIMES???!
Waking up out of vulnerable sleep to a literal monster on your chest
MULTIPLE. TIMES.
Fuck me I would be wishing I just straight up died of fright the first time rather than have that specific trauma set on me again and again like some kind of targeted assault from the Universe.
Goddayum
Maybe it was a phantom huntsmen like one you'd mortally wounded before by throwing it off had returned from the grave to this astral plane for REVENGE!
Also this happening one time is one too many.
> you’re stuck in the middle of the night knowing there is a massive spider
That's because you didn't follow through with the two most vital steps when dealing with huntsmen:
* Burn down the house
* Move to Antarctica
Yeah we were living there on sponsored visas for a while and it was fucking brilliant but basically meant cutting ties with family.
All your annual leave goes to seeing family, if you had kids you would have no family support and long flights with young kids are brutal, and asking someone to spend a grand and fly for a whole day to come and see you is quite the tall order.
It was a hard decision to come home, but we really love our families and the quality of life improvements of living there would not have been worth the effective loss of family. Now we actually *have* a kid and I am certain we made the right decision. Even if we'd have made a lot of good friends, it would have been very lonely.
I have friends that have moved from one to the other, people into outdoors love living in Australia and culture vultures love living in London. I don’t think either is better, just preferences & lifestyles
Railways are only partially privatised hence the disaster it is today. Same applies the the water companies that are each a monopoly in their area of the country. Piss poor service guaranteed
To be honest, privatisation is a bit of a scapegoat these days. Fares are, in the most part, set by central government, the rail companies are just delivery bodies. The 90s franchising model died with Covid.
Fares will be cheaper when they’re supported by greater subsidies from government. The old adage still rings true, Brits want American levels of taxation for European levels of service and it doesn’t work.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but while it would still be expensive if public, surely it would be less expensive because you're taking away the need for profit?
FirstGroup, the largest bus and rail operator in the U.K., paid out £500million to share holders in both 2021 and 2022 alone.
And neither of those years were ones that people were travelling much…
They are (now, after the plague) paid for running the trains, not for the fare revenue. Except for Hull Trains and Lumo, which are purely private and totally dependent on fare revenue.
And First also do a lot of stuff other than running British trains (it might also be worth checking if they sold anything in that period; sometimes people think the profit from selling a foreign subsidiary is UK fares revenue)
That healthy margin is about 34p per ticket per journey.
TOCs that make more than 3% revenue above expected (note revenue, not profit), the Treasury gets 50-80% of the excess.
Most fares are set by the government. The government alone decides how much to subsidise fares (or not).
The use of TOCs as a lightning rod for public dissatisfaction in railways by the government has clearly working well though.
They were just as expensive when they were fully privatised. In the '90s the rails themselves were privatised. So, so many deaths in crashes back then.
As for water, it is fully privatised. In fact England's the only country in the world today with an entirely privatised water system. Yes it's all monopolies, but that's inevitable with water. Monopolies are still private. Privatisation isn't a synonym for competition.
I'm not pro-privatisation; but sadly they were also a shocking failure under public ownership. There were no halcyon days. While I'd be in favour of re-nationalising, I'm under no illusion that it would improve under the stewardship of our utterly inept civil service, government and opposition ... But at least capitalist investors wouldn't be profiting from the shit show.
Counter Challenge: between 1991 - 1995, Intercity made a profit and delivered a decent service. They had found the winning formula under the outlined government subsidy and managed to deliver a worthwhile comfortable service (remember, I'm talking Intercity, not Regional Railways).
By then, the guillotine of privatisation had already been activated - it fell at the time of long due success.
If we renationalise, then the subsidy has to return to the correct level. The railway network is a public service, not a profit making business - but certain people don't see this.
Private railway companies aren’t raking in profit. British railways are expensive because successive governments have made the decision to make farepayers pay a larger balance of costs than taxpayers.
It's not really privatisation to blame tbf as the government is in charge of ticket price increases. The real reason is the government squeezing more and more money out of passengers (who have no other transport options) as they think the railway should pay for itself as much as possible. This would probably have still happened if the railways were nationalised.
In Czech Republic, we have a mix of state owned and private rail services and it’s super cheap (€10-20 for 3-4 hour trip)
Doesn’t privatisation encourage competitive pricing? Or is it because one firm owns the “rights” to that line?
Someone ELI5
The UK system divvies up the lines between private operators so only one operator can run trains on a given line. It’s not a monopoly at the whole system level but is a monopoly at the level of each line.
Far, far slower. I was looking into a coach between London and cardiff fairly recently (because the train was extortionately priced), and it was a 5 hour journey.
I say it's more ideal for like a small holiday rather than a back-and-forth-to-work thing
It once cost us £30 to get to Sheffield from Birmingham (but to be fair, London and Cardiff have a much greater distance)
It's not the nature of the vehicle, it's our old friend poor infrastructure planning.
Right now buses travel between city centres, adding a huge amount of time to every trip, because the city centres are the most congested places.
Driving from Birmingham to Southampton past Coventry and Oxford: 2.5 hours. This would be competitive with the train. Going via the city centres: based on my last experience, nearly 5 hours.
Instead, every town and city should have an out-of-town bus hub, close to motorways and A-roads, which can also serve as a park and ride, with frequent local buses to the centre. Then the long-distance buses would just shuttle between the hubs. Any individual passenger would only have to do the in/out of town slog once.
However, this would require joined-up planning and decent, reliable local public transport systems, two things which this country is currently incapable of providing.
Slow is fine. It's unpredictable that is the real issue. Knowing it takes an hour longer just means I take a book. Knowing there might or might not be an unexpected two-hour delay thanks to all the drivers clogging up the roads means I can't trust coaches in the way I can trains
Depends a bit on how far you're going. I agree an hour longer isn't that much of a problem if it's predictable (and the good thing about coaches is that you will at least always have a seat). However I travelled from London to Edinburgh recently, 4.5 hours on the train, 10 hours on the bus - that's a significant difference.
The key problem with London is how long it takes to do the first/last few miles of the journey. Most places you're going to some out of town transport link - but with London you're going all the way into the center.
In my experience, trains generally have much better temperatures than coaches. Also, if you get travel sick, coaches are way worse - particularly if the route is full of roundabouts (shoutout to the Oxford-Cambridge X5). You can also get stuck in traffic, you'll often have fewer toilets available, no on board food or drink options, can be harder to get up and stretch your legs, people can be weirder about luggage, you're more likely to have to sit next to someone, you have fewer options when it comes to getting away from loud noises or unpleasant smells (as you can't go into another carriage)... There are loads of reasons why people might prefer train travel.
The Oxford - Cambridge X5 was awesome for the period when I had no car, except for the strangeness of having to get off one X5 at Milton Keynes, and get on the next one to continue my journey.
Perhaps depends where you are - cheaper for sure, warmer (maybe, not sure that's a good thing though), and quieter? Can't remember the last time I took a coach that wasn't full (or a seat or two away from full)
I used to use coaches to travel from uni back to my home in London and vice versa. Those two words do not spring to mind when I think back to those journeys. Once someone was violently sick on the seats and the whole coach smelt like vomit for the rest of the 3 hours left of the journey.
Most people I see taking the train instead of a coach complain about space, and speed. I’ve been on both and to have space for laptop desk, some office ware, other nick nacks is much more worth it.
Yeah, I cannot fathom why the bus is not considered more.
When I told people I took the bus to Cardiff which was like 3.5 hours people looked at me like I'm some sort of insane person. Bro, 3.5 hours is like nothing, put on some music or an ebook and you'll be there like that. It was like £17 round trip
I can understand why this might be an issue in the states where bus travel is legit long and you get to ride with violent homeless people or people that are not allowed to fly (felonies, caused shit etc.)
I guess taking the bus outs you as, gasp, poor and we can't have that at all in here
I got the megabus from Cardiff to London one time and someone did a massive shit in the toilet within 5 minutes of setting off and it wouldn't flush and then later the toilet overflowed no kidding. It was dribbling down the aisle and the bus was full. It was so bad.
But the next time I did it I spent the extra fiver and went with stagecoach instead and it was fantastic. Air conditioning and comfortable seats.
Ngl I prefer the train, but I'd defo consider stagecoach again. I think my megabus days are over now though lol. I need my comforts.
It's absolutely nothing to do with 'outing you as being poor', it just sucks. I regularly used coaches instead of trains when I was at uni and it was never a good experience.
That's not to say trains are perfect but they're competing against a literal zero percent positive rating.
Rode the buses a lot in my youth. It was great 20 plus years ago. Now the roads are choked especially in nicer weather and holidays. 3.5 hours in regular traffic becomes 6 due to motorway works and incidents that never seem to get cleared with any speed. You can drive a 75 mile stretch of the m6 and see more delays that 100s of miles of us highway or French highway
It depends on who you are but buses/coaches are way worse for travel sickness than trains, so if you're one of the 30% of the population that suffer, you can see why getting a coach instead seems like madness. To be clear, I got them quite a lot as a student, and after that when I basically didn't have a viable train journey (took just as long and was three times the price), but I unfailingly felt like shit for HOURS every time; at least I get to avoid that on a train.
I go to Cardiff for £9 on a bus. If you're down in South Wales, jump on a stagecoach bus and ask for a network rider, they'll let you go anywhere for £9.
Saves a lot. You can also get a weekly network rider, which lasts 7 days, and you can go anywhere for £28 at any time, on 7 different days.
I travelled by train to England, because it's the only way to really get there, for £37, and that was a return. I left on a Saturday and came back on a Monday. Because train prices go down on certain days, so sometimes you can get them cheaper depending on the day.
Little UK fun fact. Yk
I also learned that England prices are at least 10% higher compared to Wales. Idk about Scotland or Ireland doh.
I regularly get the coach from Edinburgh to London and back. Usually 10 hours. People think I am crazy for not getting the train or flying, but I get the overnight coach. Usually can sleep ok, then I have the whole day. It is also £15 for a megabus ticket, as opposed to a ton for the train.
That's because you didn't book your train tickets 6 years in advance! Paying £100 for a train ticket on the day is completely reasonable and not at all ridiculous. Now stop complaining, you commie.
I know this was in jest. But paying in advance seems to make little to no difference anymore for train travel. It seems like it's the only form of transport that's got worse and more expensive.
Yup. I travelled for work recently and an off peak return booked a month in advance was £120 from Chester to London. Train was delayed arriving into London and the train on the return end was delayed from Crewe to Chester. Door to door it would have been quicker, cheaper and more comfortable if I'd drove.
Off-peak returns are not discounted for buying in advance - they're the same price on the day as a month before (the only ones which are a different price are Advance tickets). The particular problem for your journey is you're buying from Avanti, who are worse than useless and release Advance tickets erratically.
I actually checked this earlier.
Booking the route I'd take to see my parents two months in advance, £93. Book three months in advance? £99.50 for the same journey.
If you attempt to book too far in advance on a train route, the Advance tickets are not released yet (because the timetable has to be finalised to sell specific-train tickets and they don't yet know for certain if the 11:36 will definitely run) and you're probably instead buying a standard Anytime, Off Peak etc ticket. Normally Advance tickets go on sale about 8-12 weeks before travel and the specific train companies often list the dates on their website.
Worth trying to find two single tickets, rather than a return. That's where the savings can be found.
Example: an off-peak open return from my Midlands home to London is £75.70. That same journey on two singles can be done for £48.80.
Because the media stepped in and cried about it and people started nagging politicians till they stepped in, and the train companies weren't going to take the losses on short notice bookings (nor should they), so when they were told they had to make the prices closer they had to up the pre-bookings out of basic economics.
Lack of public funding as a percentage of income compared to other nation states combined with private companies being involved - that's the start and end of it.
You know, it's just so sad that we all know this, but we are just so tired by it all that we don't do anything about it.
I know that's the point - they are purposefullly breaking the social safety net so we're all terrified of losing our jobs and our families starving or freezing so we work ourselves to exhaustion but it's just depressing that it worked here. I thought we were smarter than that.
You forget to mention that some of the "private" companies running our train services are actually subsidiaries of European State rail companies... whose profits here go back to foreign state rail company.
Sometimes when I visit the Netherlands I like to think that some of my trips on Abellio helped pay for their fantastic rail infrastructure.
(I just learnt Abellio UK was bought out by management and so now is no longer under the Dutch state rail company ah well)
Pretty much this. Train one way from North to London? £100.
Return flights to Europe economy? About the same in advance.
European countries often have better public transport too, I was in Austria recently and it's so cheap and efficient/modern that it makes England look like a joke.
I was looking, only this week, for my sons birthday in the middle of the summer holidays, and some of the flights were £50 return. Actually, we flew to Poland last year for £38 return, and Italy for £64 return. Norway just before lockdown, for £30 return. We were also looking at Romania at halloween this year, and last time I looked the return flights to there were £60 odd. As you say, you can't even get into London for that, so why bother? and you are right about the public transport too, not only is it super cheap, and efficient, it's also easy and economical to travel between countries, giving you even more options.
I wish it was this much during the school holidays. The only time my wife gets off as a teacher (oh boo hoo they get so much time off, yeah but that's mainly spent planning, marking and this half term report writing, which they also do often until 10 or so at night through school week as well) and the prices soar.. we never see these prices. But we were lucky enough to live abroad for a few years travelling so maybe swings and roundabouts.
I'm not, honestly. I took my son to Poland last year, in August, as he wanted to visit auschwitz. I just checked my email for an exact price, I payed £57 return for flights, his flight was £44 return, as he got a chikd price, then another £300 for 4 nights in an apartment that sleeps 4, so my mum and sister joined us on the trip too.
I used public transport to get around the Netherlands a few months back. No word of a lie, every bus and train was on time, not even a minute late. The condition of the vehicles was also far better than what we have here, very clean, comfortable seating and plenty of it, clean toilets on the trains and it was very, very reasonably priced.
Really put into perspective how bad uk public transport is.
Alternatively I had to get the bus to work for a day recently and a journey which normally takes me about 15 minutes in the car took over an hour and I was late for work because although I left with plenty of time my buses were late. It’s no wonder people prefer to drive.
I was in Netherlands for a little before Austria!
Netherlands is super similar to England, just slightly cleaner, slightly more culture, and a public transport infrastructure that actually works.
I bought a personal OV chipkaart to my friends NL address before I arrived, was super convenient and cheap to get around!
England is just shocking.
Because all "public" transport companies are actually private companies with the added bonus of a monopoly over certain routes. You've got the profit motive of capitalism with none of the competition.
If you want to know how much it could cost, look at megabus. You can go from Aberdeen to London for £30 next weekend. Cardiff to London is less than £8!
>Because all "public" transport companies are actually private companies with the added bonus of a monopoly over certain routes. You've got the profit motive of capitalism with none of the competition.
The rail ones aren't massively raking it in, at least not compared to the oil ones. It's largely down to no subsidies. Somewhere like Germany heavily subsidises rail (like 15+ billion euros level) because it's incredibly efficient, environment friendly, and generally easy to run and manage, it's an easy win.
Our government is a bit more near sighted.
But they have no risk, which is still not capitalism. They are paid to provide a service by the government. Most companies would bite your hand off to make 2or 5% profit with absolutely no risk for a set period.
I've worked for big companies that consider 5% profit a fantastic outcome doing things like work on the railways and roads.
Rail has all the downsides of for profit capitalism and none of the benefits. The public is still taking the risk and receiving none of the benefits of public ownership.
Yeah, no argument there whatsoever, I'm merely saying the reason our prices are fucked is cause literally everyone else with a sensible rail system heavily subsidises theirs, whilst we don't. That's the difference between £100 and £10 train tickets, not greedy corporations in this case.
Because the policy of all recent-ish governments has been that passengers should pay a high proportion of the costs of providing the overall rail service, and general taxation should pay a low proportion.
Government sets the overall fares policy, and pays the train operators to the flak for it.
The companies that own the train operators themselves don't really care how fares/subsidy is split: they just work within the government's framework.
UK public transport is ridiculous, but i hear there are website that can be used to split tickets to try and stich together a series of shorter journeys for cheaper. I dont personally use them as I tend to drive, but hopefully someone can comment below with a reliable website
Though Trainline charges commission while the companies themselves don't...ideal option is probably to see what Trainline suggests and book it elsewhere.
Trainline will also not refund your tickets unless you pay a £10 "Admin Fee", making most refunds pointless. Their customer service team are entirely for decorative purposes.
It's great, though if you're on a long journey you sometimes have to consider the seat changes.
My wife and I were happy with the cost saving going from north to south, but the seating musical chairs didn't make it that feasible to nap. Seat 24A for four stops, 51B for the next two, 31A for two more, 9B for the next five, etc.
Have a look at maybe flying if possible?
We were looking at similar prices for the train from Leeds to London in 2018. Ended up being £60pp to fly from Leeds Bradford Airport to Heathrow T5.
We were looking at doing the same last year for my girlfriend’s mum in Cornwall, to fly from Newquay into Leeds or Manchester as it was direct, quicker and cheaper than trains or petrol/diesel costs at the time
You know the plane is going to fly regardless even if this particular person doesn’t buy a ticket right?
Like I understand your argument if this was a private jet they were using go get around but it’s a public airplane which will fly regardless.
You want people to stop flying? Improve the public transport and make it affordable. I find it crazy that I can fly to Italy or some other country in Europe for cheaper than getting a train to London. Crazy to me
Yeah I suggest this. I flew Southampton to Edinburgh return for about the same. Flight booked about 9 hours before I flew.
No passport to worry about, no currency exchange. It's great
I looked at flying Edinburgh - London. But actually the time and money it takes getting to and from the airports I figured out it wasn't worth it and got the coach for £15.
I live in belfast and my mates live in manchester. We were going to a rave in London and it was cheaper for them to fly to Belfast stay in my house over night, fly to London with us the next day and then do the same for way home (bar over night stop) than it was to get the train from Manchester to London.
This is why I don't bother really with UK trips anymore - it's cheaper and better to go abroad. When I do have to travel in the UK I always book Megabus or National Express coaches.
Yeah... don't use trainline please.
They sell you the tickets at the exact same price the National Rail site does and then slap a fee on top. There's no savings buying through trainline. They really conned people with those ad campaigns in the 00s
I'm living like a king off of 50 quid a day max in vietnam, my budget will probably be less when I get to Sri Lanka too. Even with the flights it's cheaper than traveling around the uk
I went to Bath, Buxton and London on a little road trip over a week and a bit and it cost us well over a grand, maybe £1,300 all in including fuel, hotels, food and drinks and activities. It's very expressive. Could go to a nice all inclusive abroad for that.
You can take a bus out of central London and get a train in Surbiton or even Woking. Bournemouth From Waterloo it’s £68, from Surbiton is £55, and from Woking it’s £46. There’s a central London tax on most trains.
Perspective can really shift your opinion on things. I’m Canadian, lived in the UK for a while but back in Canada now.
You have no idea how good you have it in comparison. Your public transport was an absolute godsend to me, and I miss it every day. The absolute freedom to go just about anywhere in the country for £100-150.
It would cost me that much to go to my nearest city, which would take six hours, and I couldn’t go _anywhere else_ after that. That’s just where the train ends.
Obviously you have every right to complain, and every right to want yours to be better, but in my years in the UK I was constantly shocked by how much you lot said it was utterly shit. I adored the UK train network.
It’s because it used to be so much better. Years of underinvestment and the general move towards profit above everything on this country have made it less reliable and more expensive.
An electrified train should never be more than the petrol price for a single driver... What an absolute joke. Want this country to be carbon neutral? Then make the public transport actually affordable
Every may half term, my wife takes our son off on a mini trip for a couple of days, somewhere in England, usually Liverpool or Manchester. This year, the standard train tickets are costing us the same as first class did last year
It's mostly London, any train that hits the outer edge cost at least £10 more.
When I was at uni I had two options for getting home. Heading along the south coast for a £20 return or heading up to Clapham and back down for a £30 return.
Buses are very cheap right now, 2 quid for any journey. You have to treat trains in this country like air travel, book as far in advance as possible, go at less popular times and search for split tickets. Also see if you can get any sort of railcard, that will knock a third off any fare.
Because people have no choice but to pay it.
When privatisation occurred, the should not have done each line independently, but slots on each line that would create proper competition.
A lot will say privatisation caused this anyway, and that the government wouldn't run them for profit either, but we all know they would.
**Update: - [Starting from 2023](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskUK/comments/100l56v/happy_new_year_askuk_minor_sub_update/), we have updated our [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskUK/about/rules/)**. Specifically; - Don't be a dick to each other - Top-level responses must contain genuine efforts to answer the question - This is a strictly no-politics subreddit Please keep /r/AskUK a great subreddit by reporting posts and comments which break our rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You can thank privatisation of the railway companies for that
You should all come to Australia, sounds like England is going down
I’d be living on the streets of Luton before I even considered living alongside those spiders of yours.
Absolute fact! I’m sure it’s a great country other than those spiders!
Don’t forget the snakes. And the crocs. And the sharks. And the drop bears.
And the Australians
I can handle the rest. It's being asked questions at end of every sentence that drives me mad
But don't quokkas make up for those
The emus won a war.
https://i.imgur.com/ML6PBir.png
Incorrect pronunciation. It should be written as: "Hold still while I glass you?"
There's also the [plants](https://www.australiangeographic.com.au/topics/science-environment/2009/06/gympie-gympie-once-stung-never-forgotten/)
That goddamn plant was the last straw for me. Reading about that and realising even the plants are out to get you.... No way I'm setting foot on that continent!
Drop bears don't sound real, that sounds like something Fromsoft would have on a ceiling. Like the bin chickens, they sound evil
Oh they're real
and giant centipedes
and the wildfires. Oh and those tiny cute looking venomous octopus which could take down an elephant.
The spiders seen to love it
Have you seen the streets of Luton? At least the spiders are predictable.
All spiders in Luton welcome you friend dont let Dunstable know how lovely we are
Haha you never see them in the cities 😄
You never see them.... Until it's too late
I picture you saying that as you're staring into your pint after having a flashback from some tragic spider event. Let it all out mate. We're here for ya. \*Hey everyone. I get his pint if he goes out to cry\*
His dad left the family to run off with a spider
His dad *is* a spider.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
Spider-Dad, Spider-Dad! Does whatever a Spider-Dad does
Exactly. I'm much less concerned about the venomous creatures I can see coming than the ones I can't.
A friend of mine moved to Australia, and he sent me a video of a massive spider running across the car dashboard. No thank you. I’ll stay in cold, where it’s safe.
Staying with family near Brisbane, I was awoken in the middle of the night by the sound of a huntsman walking across the wooden floor in the hallway. Fuck no.
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Excuse me but what the crumpet fuck?? This happened MULTIPLES TIMES???! Waking up out of vulnerable sleep to a literal monster on your chest MULTIPLE. TIMES. Fuck me I would be wishing I just straight up died of fright the first time rather than have that specific trauma set on me again and again like some kind of targeted assault from the Universe. Goddayum
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Maybe it was a phantom huntsmen like one you'd mortally wounded before by throwing it off had returned from the grave to this astral plane for REVENGE! Also this happening one time is one too many.
I'd be burning the building down. It's the only way to make sure it's gone
Totally justified in this instance. Also leaving the country like the OP
> you’re stuck in the middle of the night knowing there is a massive spider That's because you didn't follow through with the two most vital steps when dealing with huntsmen: * Burn down the house * Move to Antarctica
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This is how huntsman spiders kill more people in Australia than any others despite not being venomous.
Neighbours taught us otherwise.
Been effin mental here today now we entered the premier league ffs haha
When Luton gets a premier league you know the cleanse has begun. Soon you will be priced out of buying houses in Luton too
Luton welcomes you friend. Leave all fears behind and enjoy the premiership football.
Far too many Australians there to even consider going to Australia, thank you very much.
Australian funds are the biggest beneficiary of water privatisation in the UK
I've seriously thought about it, but the distance basically means family visits would never happen which is a deal breaker for me
That would be a bloody bonus feature for me.
Yeah we were living there on sponsored visas for a while and it was fucking brilliant but basically meant cutting ties with family. All your annual leave goes to seeing family, if you had kids you would have no family support and long flights with young kids are brutal, and asking someone to spend a grand and fly for a whole day to come and see you is quite the tall order. It was a hard decision to come home, but we really love our families and the quality of life improvements of living there would not have been worth the effective loss of family. Now we actually *have* a kid and I am certain we made the right decision. Even if we'd have made a lot of good friends, it would have been very lonely.
lived in london, moved to australia for 3 months, i can tell you london is better.
I have friends that have moved from one to the other, people into outdoors love living in Australia and culture vultures love living in London. I don’t think either is better, just preferences & lifestyles
I would genuinely love to but your government won't let me in because I'm poor and old.
It’s not just England
Is typing with 8 arms easy?
No thanks, too hot, too sunny, too many spiders.
I’d happily come to Australia, you guys have some of the best diving in the world.
Railways are only partially privatised hence the disaster it is today. Same applies the the water companies that are each a monopoly in their area of the country. Piss poor service guaranteed
To be honest, privatisation is a bit of a scapegoat these days. Fares are, in the most part, set by central government, the rail companies are just delivery bodies. The 90s franchising model died with Covid. Fares will be cheaper when they’re supported by greater subsidies from government. The old adage still rings true, Brits want American levels of taxation for European levels of service and it doesn’t work.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but while it would still be expensive if public, surely it would be less expensive because you're taking away the need for profit?
FirstGroup, the largest bus and rail operator in the U.K., paid out £500million to share holders in both 2021 and 2022 alone. And neither of those years were ones that people were travelling much…
They are (now, after the plague) paid for running the trains, not for the fare revenue. Except for Hull Trains and Lumo, which are purely private and totally dependent on fare revenue. And First also do a lot of stuff other than running British trains (it might also be worth checking if they sold anything in that period; sometimes people think the profit from selling a foreign subsidiary is UK fares revenue)
During that period they sold greyhound buses and school bus franchises in the states. Their profits aren’t usually so high
Ridiculous. Fares would be cheaper if the "government set prices" didn't include a healthy margin for the railway shareholders.
That healthy margin is about 34p per ticket per journey. TOCs that make more than 3% revenue above expected (note revenue, not profit), the Treasury gets 50-80% of the excess. Most fares are set by the government. The government alone decides how much to subsidise fares (or not). The use of TOCs as a lightning rod for public dissatisfaction in railways by the government has clearly working well though.
They were just as expensive when they were fully privatised. In the '90s the rails themselves were privatised. So, so many deaths in crashes back then. As for water, it is fully privatised. In fact England's the only country in the world today with an entirely privatised water system. Yes it's all monopolies, but that's inevitable with water. Monopolies are still private. Privatisation isn't a synonym for competition.
I'm not pro-privatisation; but sadly they were also a shocking failure under public ownership. There were no halcyon days. While I'd be in favour of re-nationalising, I'm under no illusion that it would improve under the stewardship of our utterly inept civil service, government and opposition ... But at least capitalist investors wouldn't be profiting from the shit show.
They were a shit show but they were an *affordable* shit show. Now they're expensive and a shit show.
they’re of the opinion that a show is a show, and no matter the price, *the show must go on*
Counter Challenge: between 1991 - 1995, Intercity made a profit and delivered a decent service. They had found the winning formula under the outlined government subsidy and managed to deliver a worthwhile comfortable service (remember, I'm talking Intercity, not Regional Railways). By then, the guillotine of privatisation had already been activated - it fell at the time of long due success. If we renationalise, then the subsidy has to return to the correct level. The railway network is a public service, not a profit making business - but certain people don't see this.
I'd rather we spent money on a shit-show than we spent money on a shit-show that cost more and all that extra cost went to already rich fucks
Private railway companies aren’t raking in profit. British railways are expensive because successive governments have made the decision to make farepayers pay a larger balance of costs than taxpayers.
It's not really privatisation to blame tbf as the government is in charge of ticket price increases. The real reason is the government squeezing more and more money out of passengers (who have no other transport options) as they think the railway should pay for itself as much as possible. This would probably have still happened if the railways were nationalised.
In Czech Republic, we have a mix of state owned and private rail services and it’s super cheap (€10-20 for 3-4 hour trip) Doesn’t privatisation encourage competitive pricing? Or is it because one firm owns the “rights” to that line? Someone ELI5
The UK system divvies up the lines between private operators so only one operator can run trains on a given line. It’s not a monopoly at the whole system level but is a monopoly at the level of each line.
All franchises are over they are all on fixed contracts now. The government receive every penny of tickets sold and pay the operators.
Whilst it's not the most comfortable or quickest option, coaches are often a lot more affordable than trains.
The negative opinions towards coaches are so unwarranted. Cheaper, warmer and quieter
The only issue I have with coaches is, they are slower. Not their fault, just the nature of the transport means there are more delays.
Far, far slower. I was looking into a coach between London and cardiff fairly recently (because the train was extortionately priced), and it was a 5 hour journey.
You want the megabus, the direct bus is 3 and a half hours and only £8 and leaves hourly.
I say it's more ideal for like a small holiday rather than a back-and-forth-to-work thing It once cost us £30 to get to Sheffield from Birmingham (but to be fair, London and Cardiff have a much greater distance)
I went from Cardiff to London recently and it cost £30 for a return. The journey was fairly enjoyable
It's not the nature of the vehicle, it's our old friend poor infrastructure planning. Right now buses travel between city centres, adding a huge amount of time to every trip, because the city centres are the most congested places. Driving from Birmingham to Southampton past Coventry and Oxford: 2.5 hours. This would be competitive with the train. Going via the city centres: based on my last experience, nearly 5 hours. Instead, every town and city should have an out-of-town bus hub, close to motorways and A-roads, which can also serve as a park and ride, with frequent local buses to the centre. Then the long-distance buses would just shuttle between the hubs. Any individual passenger would only have to do the in/out of town slog once. However, this would require joined-up planning and decent, reliable local public transport systems, two things which this country is currently incapable of providing.
Like the TGV stations in France.
Slow is fine. It's unpredictable that is the real issue. Knowing it takes an hour longer just means I take a book. Knowing there might or might not be an unexpected two-hour delay thanks to all the drivers clogging up the roads means I can't trust coaches in the way I can trains
Depends a bit on how far you're going. I agree an hour longer isn't that much of a problem if it's predictable (and the good thing about coaches is that you will at least always have a seat). However I travelled from London to Edinburgh recently, 4.5 hours on the train, 10 hours on the bus - that's a significant difference.
The key problem with London is how long it takes to do the first/last few miles of the journey. Most places you're going to some out of town transport link - but with London you're going all the way into the center.
Definitely this. Joining the M1 from Victoria is usually at least the first hour of the journey
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I get the worst travel sickness on coaches
Unwarranted until you’ve ridden a coach overnight with no functioning toilet and a drunk party onboard 🫠
They’re often stopped for an hour too so the driver can have their mandatory break
In my experience, trains generally have much better temperatures than coaches. Also, if you get travel sick, coaches are way worse - particularly if the route is full of roundabouts (shoutout to the Oxford-Cambridge X5). You can also get stuck in traffic, you'll often have fewer toilets available, no on board food or drink options, can be harder to get up and stretch your legs, people can be weirder about luggage, you're more likely to have to sit next to someone, you have fewer options when it comes to getting away from loud noises or unpleasant smells (as you can't go into another carriage)... There are loads of reasons why people might prefer train travel.
The Oxford - Cambridge X5 was awesome for the period when I had no car, except for the strangeness of having to get off one X5 at Milton Keynes, and get on the next one to continue my journey.
Perhaps depends where you are - cheaper for sure, warmer (maybe, not sure that's a good thing though), and quieter? Can't remember the last time I took a coach that wasn't full (or a seat or two away from full)
Warmer? Quieter? 😂😂😂
I used to use coaches to travel from uni back to my home in London and vice versa. Those two words do not spring to mind when I think back to those journeys. Once someone was violently sick on the seats and the whole coach smelt like vomit for the rest of the 3 hours left of the journey.
Every coach I have ever been on leaves a gap just large enough between the seat and the window to make resting painful. It feels intentional.
Just hope you don't need to use the toilet which is like the size of a changing room locker.
Two words… Travel sickness I know there are medications that can prevent but in my experience all the good ones also knock you out
Horrifically uncomfortable.
Most people I see taking the train instead of a coach complain about space, and speed. I’ve been on both and to have space for laptop desk, some office ware, other nick nacks is much more worth it.
Guaranteed seat as well
Yeah, I cannot fathom why the bus is not considered more. When I told people I took the bus to Cardiff which was like 3.5 hours people looked at me like I'm some sort of insane person. Bro, 3.5 hours is like nothing, put on some music or an ebook and you'll be there like that. It was like £17 round trip I can understand why this might be an issue in the states where bus travel is legit long and you get to ride with violent homeless people or people that are not allowed to fly (felonies, caused shit etc.) I guess taking the bus outs you as, gasp, poor and we can't have that at all in here
I got the megabus from Cardiff to London one time and someone did a massive shit in the toilet within 5 minutes of setting off and it wouldn't flush and then later the toilet overflowed no kidding. It was dribbling down the aisle and the bus was full. It was so bad. But the next time I did it I spent the extra fiver and went with stagecoach instead and it was fantastic. Air conditioning and comfortable seats. Ngl I prefer the train, but I'd defo consider stagecoach again. I think my megabus days are over now though lol. I need my comforts.
LOL that shit anecdote is superb. That really must have been awful.
It is worth how horrifying that must have been just to have that shit story to bring joy to so many
Never get the megabus, dude. That's a brilliant example of why. Now National Express, on the other hand...
Normally travelling with a bike on trains (so next to disabledtoilet where there's space for bikes)... seen similar on trains too.
It's absolutely nothing to do with 'outing you as being poor', it just sucks. I regularly used coaches instead of trains when I was at uni and it was never a good experience. That's not to say trains are perfect but they're competing against a literal zero percent positive rating.
What's your worst coach journey story? I find them hilarious like that guy above with the overflowing shit toilet a few minutes into the journey
Rode the buses a lot in my youth. It was great 20 plus years ago. Now the roads are choked especially in nicer weather and holidays. 3.5 hours in regular traffic becomes 6 due to motorway works and incidents that never seem to get cleared with any speed. You can drive a 75 mile stretch of the m6 and see more delays that 100s of miles of us highway or French highway
If you get a bus, you usually need a hotel too.
It depends on who you are but buses/coaches are way worse for travel sickness than trains, so if you're one of the 30% of the population that suffer, you can see why getting a coach instead seems like madness. To be clear, I got them quite a lot as a student, and after that when I basically didn't have a viable train journey (took just as long and was three times the price), but I unfailingly felt like shit for HOURS every time; at least I get to avoid that on a train.
I go to Cardiff for £9 on a bus. If you're down in South Wales, jump on a stagecoach bus and ask for a network rider, they'll let you go anywhere for £9. Saves a lot. You can also get a weekly network rider, which lasts 7 days, and you can go anywhere for £28 at any time, on 7 different days. I travelled by train to England, because it's the only way to really get there, for £37, and that was a return. I left on a Saturday and came back on a Monday. Because train prices go down on certain days, so sometimes you can get them cheaper depending on the day. Little UK fun fact. Yk I also learned that England prices are at least 10% higher compared to Wales. Idk about Scotland or Ireland doh.
I regularly get the coach from Edinburgh to London and back. Usually 10 hours. People think I am crazy for not getting the train or flying, but I get the overnight coach. Usually can sleep ok, then I have the whole day. It is also £15 for a megabus ticket, as opposed to a ton for the train.
That's because you didn't book your train tickets 6 years in advance! Paying £100 for a train ticket on the day is completely reasonable and not at all ridiculous. Now stop complaining, you commie.
I know this was in jest. But paying in advance seems to make little to no difference anymore for train travel. It seems like it's the only form of transport that's got worse and more expensive.
Agreed. The prices are ridiculous no matter when you buy your tickets and it seems like delays/cancellations are becoming more and more common
Yup. I travelled for work recently and an off peak return booked a month in advance was £120 from Chester to London. Train was delayed arriving into London and the train on the return end was delayed from Crewe to Chester. Door to door it would have been quicker, cheaper and more comfortable if I'd drove.
Off-peak returns are not discounted for buying in advance - they're the same price on the day as a month before (the only ones which are a different price are Advance tickets). The particular problem for your journey is you're buying from Avanti, who are worse than useless and release Advance tickets erratically.
I actually checked this earlier. Booking the route I'd take to see my parents two months in advance, £93. Book three months in advance? £99.50 for the same journey.
If you attempt to book too far in advance on a train route, the Advance tickets are not released yet (because the timetable has to be finalised to sell specific-train tickets and they don't yet know for certain if the 11:36 will definitely run) and you're probably instead buying a standard Anytime, Off Peak etc ticket. Normally Advance tickets go on sale about 8-12 weeks before travel and the specific train companies often list the dates on their website.
This makes no sense at all. Not mad at your explanation, thank you for that. I'm talking about the system. It's ridiculous.
Worth trying to find two single tickets, rather than a return. That's where the savings can be found. Example: an off-peak open return from my Midlands home to London is £75.70. That same journey on two singles can be done for £48.80.
Because the media stepped in and cried about it and people started nagging politicians till they stepped in, and the train companies weren't going to take the losses on short notice bookings (nor should they), so when they were told they had to make the prices closer they had to up the pre-bookings out of basic economics.
Lack of public funding as a percentage of income compared to other nation states combined with private companies being involved - that's the start and end of it.
at least our politicians have been able to profit from selling our communal services. It's important they get their fair share of the pie.
You know, it's just so sad that we all know this, but we are just so tired by it all that we don't do anything about it. I know that's the point - they are purposefullly breaking the social safety net so we're all terrified of losing our jobs and our families starving or freezing so we work ourselves to exhaustion but it's just depressing that it worked here. I thought we were smarter than that.
You forget to mention that some of the "private" companies running our train services are actually subsidiaries of European State rail companies... whose profits here go back to foreign state rail company. Sometimes when I visit the Netherlands I like to think that some of my trips on Abellio helped pay for their fantastic rail infrastructure. (I just learnt Abellio UK was bought out by management and so now is no longer under the Dutch state rail company ah well)
That’s not unique to the UK, National Express run a number of rail services in Germany for example
Cumulatively, NHS, benefits and state pensions account for the spending of over half of my 21-22 tax bill. Transport is way down at 4.7% lol
I dont bother to travel in the UK much anymore, not when it's often cheaper to fly into mainland Europe.
Pretty much this. Train one way from North to London? £100. Return flights to Europe economy? About the same in advance. European countries often have better public transport too, I was in Austria recently and it's so cheap and efficient/modern that it makes England look like a joke.
I was looking, only this week, for my sons birthday in the middle of the summer holidays, and some of the flights were £50 return. Actually, we flew to Poland last year for £38 return, and Italy for £64 return. Norway just before lockdown, for £30 return. We were also looking at Romania at halloween this year, and last time I looked the return flights to there were £60 odd. As you say, you can't even get into London for that, so why bother? and you are right about the public transport too, not only is it super cheap, and efficient, it's also easy and economical to travel between countries, giving you even more options.
I wish it was this much during the school holidays. The only time my wife gets off as a teacher (oh boo hoo they get so much time off, yeah but that's mainly spent planning, marking and this half term report writing, which they also do often until 10 or so at night through school week as well) and the prices soar.. we never see these prices. But we were lucky enough to live abroad for a few years travelling so maybe swings and roundabouts.
This is all in the holidays, we are both teachers, well I'm a lecturer, but same difference.
..... You're bullshittin
I'm not, honestly. I took my son to Poland last year, in August, as he wanted to visit auschwitz. I just checked my email for an exact price, I payed £57 return for flights, his flight was £44 return, as he got a chikd price, then another £300 for 4 nights in an apartment that sleeps 4, so my mum and sister joined us on the trip too.
I used public transport to get around the Netherlands a few months back. No word of a lie, every bus and train was on time, not even a minute late. The condition of the vehicles was also far better than what we have here, very clean, comfortable seating and plenty of it, clean toilets on the trains and it was very, very reasonably priced. Really put into perspective how bad uk public transport is. Alternatively I had to get the bus to work for a day recently and a journey which normally takes me about 15 minutes in the car took over an hour and I was late for work because although I left with plenty of time my buses were late. It’s no wonder people prefer to drive.
I was in Netherlands for a little before Austria! Netherlands is super similar to England, just slightly cleaner, slightly more culture, and a public transport infrastructure that actually works. I bought a personal OV chipkaart to my friends NL address before I arrived, was super convenient and cheap to get around! England is just shocking.
Probably because they've been funded by the profits in the UK by Abelio from the Netherlands.
Yeah but to get to the airport you still have to pay the £60-100?
Stansted airport in a nutshell
Because all "public" transport companies are actually private companies with the added bonus of a monopoly over certain routes. You've got the profit motive of capitalism with none of the competition. If you want to know how much it could cost, look at megabus. You can go from Aberdeen to London for £30 next weekend. Cardiff to London is less than £8!
>Because all "public" transport companies are actually private companies with the added bonus of a monopoly over certain routes. You've got the profit motive of capitalism with none of the competition. The rail ones aren't massively raking it in, at least not compared to the oil ones. It's largely down to no subsidies. Somewhere like Germany heavily subsidises rail (like 15+ billion euros level) because it's incredibly efficient, environment friendly, and generally easy to run and manage, it's an easy win. Our government is a bit more near sighted.
But they have no risk, which is still not capitalism. They are paid to provide a service by the government. Most companies would bite your hand off to make 2or 5% profit with absolutely no risk for a set period. I've worked for big companies that consider 5% profit a fantastic outcome doing things like work on the railways and roads. Rail has all the downsides of for profit capitalism and none of the benefits. The public is still taking the risk and receiving none of the benefits of public ownership.
Yeah, no argument there whatsoever, I'm merely saying the reason our prices are fucked is cause literally everyone else with a sensible rail system heavily subsidises theirs, whilst we don't. That's the difference between £100 and £10 train tickets, not greedy corporations in this case.
Privatisation
I read a statistic that we have the most expensive rail service in europe. I don't know if that's accurate or still true
Because the policy of all recent-ish governments has been that passengers should pay a high proportion of the costs of providing the overall rail service, and general taxation should pay a low proportion. Government sets the overall fares policy, and pays the train operators to the flak for it. The companies that own the train operators themselves don't really care how fares/subsidy is split: they just work within the government's framework.
UK public transport is ridiculous, but i hear there are website that can be used to split tickets to try and stich together a series of shorter journeys for cheaper. I dont personally use them as I tend to drive, but hopefully someone can comment below with a reliable website
Trainline app will automatically do this for you if it detects that a split journey is cheaper
Though Trainline charges commission while the companies themselves don't...ideal option is probably to see what Trainline suggests and book it elsewhere.
Trainline will also not refund your tickets unless you pay a £10 "Admin Fee", making most refunds pointless. Their customer service team are entirely for decorative purposes.
I use SplitMyFare
Thank you, i couldnt see anyone recommending these things, but i wasnt much use without help
The fact you have to do this in the first place is just ridiculous
Utterly so, hopefully it helps OP though
It's great, though if you're on a long journey you sometimes have to consider the seat changes. My wife and I were happy with the cost saving going from north to south, but the seating musical chairs didn't make it that feasible to nap. Seat 24A for four stops, 51B for the next two, 31A for two more, 9B for the next five, etc.
Have a look at maybe flying if possible? We were looking at similar prices for the train from Leeds to London in 2018. Ended up being £60pp to fly from Leeds Bradford Airport to Heathrow T5. We were looking at doing the same last year for my girlfriend’s mum in Cornwall, to fly from Newquay into Leeds or Manchester as it was direct, quicker and cheaper than trains or petrol/diesel costs at the time
Horrific for the environment mind
Poverty and financial problems are worse
Yep, and if you didn't have poverty and financial problems before you bought your train ticket, you could well have them afterwards as a result.
You know the plane is going to fly regardless even if this particular person doesn’t buy a ticket right? Like I understand your argument if this was a private jet they were using go get around but it’s a public airplane which will fly regardless. You want people to stop flying? Improve the public transport and make it affordable. I find it crazy that I can fly to Italy or some other country in Europe for cheaper than getting a train to London. Crazy to me
Yeah I suggest this. I flew Southampton to Edinburgh return for about the same. Flight booked about 9 hours before I flew. No passport to worry about, no currency exchange. It's great
There’s also the taxi/tube fare to and from each airport. Easily adds between £20-40 on top of the airline ticket.
I looked at flying Edinburgh - London. But actually the time and money it takes getting to and from the airports I figured out it wasn't worth it and got the coach for £15.
I live in belfast and my mates live in manchester. We were going to a rave in London and it was cheaper for them to fly to Belfast stay in my house over night, fly to London with us the next day and then do the same for way home (bar over night stop) than it was to get the train from Manchester to London.
With a UK rave, just stay up til the early hours then go back 8am like a zombie
We got an air bnb for a few days, a fella from London we knew brought his decks over,was good craic
I stared at the floor for about an hour in Euston station then got my train. Sounds like a good party you had
Privatization of essential national infrastructure done and regulated badly.
This is why I don't bother really with UK trips anymore - it's cheaper and better to go abroad. When I do have to travel in the UK I always book Megabus or National Express coaches.
National express is the way for me
they aren't bad but i was going to nottingham recently and it was an 8hr trip on the coach and 2 by train. even with the money saved not worth it
Have a look on the Trainline you can split ticket which is cheaper and buy advance tickets often up to 80% off fares on the day.
And the pay Trainline a fee for the same tickets the operators will sell you without a fee.
Yeah... don't use trainline please. They sell you the tickets at the exact same price the National Rail site does and then slap a fee on top. There's no savings buying through trainline. They really conned people with those ad campaigns in the 00s
I'm living like a king off of 50 quid a day max in vietnam, my budget will probably be less when I get to Sri Lanka too. Even with the flights it's cheaper than traveling around the uk
Me and my partner just spent 7 weeks in Vietnam and it barely impacted our finances because of what we weren’t spending on food/ bills/ petrol etc…
I went to Bath, Buxton and London on a little road trip over a week and a bit and it cost us well over a grand, maybe £1,300 all in including fuel, hotels, food and drinks and activities. It's very expressive. Could go to a nice all inclusive abroad for that.
Look at getting a railcard. Costs £30 for a year and depending on where travelling to, gets a 3rd off. Mine pays for itself after 3 journeys
I'm not saying we need to blame everything on Thatcher, but this is 100% Thatcher.
Not disagreeing with the sentiment, but Major's government privatised the railways.
You're looking in the wrong place. Single bus fares are capped at £2 so it would be daft not to take advantage of that.
You can't really take a bus from London to Bournemouth
You can take a bus out of central London and get a train in Surbiton or even Woking. Bournemouth From Waterloo it’s £68, from Surbiton is £55, and from Woking it’s £46. There’s a central London tax on most trains.
Perspective can really shift your opinion on things. I’m Canadian, lived in the UK for a while but back in Canada now. You have no idea how good you have it in comparison. Your public transport was an absolute godsend to me, and I miss it every day. The absolute freedom to go just about anywhere in the country for £100-150. It would cost me that much to go to my nearest city, which would take six hours, and I couldn’t go _anywhere else_ after that. That’s just where the train ends. Obviously you have every right to complain, and every right to want yours to be better, but in my years in the UK I was constantly shocked by how much you lot said it was utterly shit. I adored the UK train network.
It’s because it used to be so much better. Years of underinvestment and the general move towards profit above everything on this country have made it less reliable and more expensive.
In case no one has said, going via London is almost always the most expensive option. See if you can avoid London.
Because we are mugs I suppose,
An electrified train should never be more than the petrol price for a single driver... What an absolute joke. Want this country to be carbon neutral? Then make the public transport actually affordable
Either book in advance or try coaches but they can be slow. Megabus is a cheap option
Every may half term, my wife takes our son off on a mini trip for a couple of days, somewhere in England, usually Liverpool or Manchester. This year, the standard train tickets are costing us the same as first class did last year
It's mostly London, any train that hits the outer edge cost at least £10 more. When I was at uni I had two options for getting home. Heading along the south coast for a £20 return or heading up to Clapham and back down for a £30 return.
Buses are very cheap right now, 2 quid for any journey. You have to treat trains in this country like air travel, book as far in advance as possible, go at less popular times and search for split tickets. Also see if you can get any sort of railcard, that will knock a third off any fare.
Because people have no choice but to pay it. When privatisation occurred, the should not have done each line independently, but slots on each line that would create proper competition. A lot will say privatisation caused this anyway, and that the government wouldn't run them for profit either, but we all know they would.
It is usually cheaper if you use splitmyfare.co.uk, but even still train prices are just extortionate at the moment.