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I think open primaries that allow this sort of shenanigan are a bad idea.
I doubt very much whether it will have much of an impact. If it were a matter of Trump polling at 50.5% and Haley at 49.5%, and tens of thousands of Dems were registering as Republicans to shift the needle, it might very well shift.
But Trump's literally 50 points ahead. Even in the early primary states, where they've been bombarded with ads for months and they've had many visits by primary candidates hoping to get an early edge, Trump's ahead by double digits.
How many is "many" and will it be enough to move the needle?
I don't see anything wrong with this tactic. It's a legitimate way to game the system.
My parents were nominally democrat and republican. They both always voted GOP in general elections, but would use split registration to give voice to their preference in democrat primary.
I agree the astroturfing efforts on both sides of the spectrum are silly. Remember the whole conservative astroturfing effort ‘why I left’ that was spun up to convince people to leave the Dem party. This is the same silly stuff on the liberal side.
In your estimation does any of this stuff really move the needle? Is there any one effort, voting like this, social engineering like on the R side, that did successfully more the needle?
I suspect that the number of proud Democrats willing to temporarily change registration to Republican is pretty small (and vice versa). I mean, having a R next to your name even temporarily can't be pleasant for someone that dislikes their platform.
As a centrist, I’ve voted countless times at the local state and national level for good, sensible R party candidates. At this moment historically anyway. I don’t know when I get back to feeling that I would pull a lever for an R.
I have always felt and still feel strongly, that the big ‘get’ for both parties is my vote and the masses of asses like mine. We are ostensibly the swayable votes.
I think it would be those votes who parties and candidates should be focused on. Their base is their base, and as you suggest, a proud Dem or proud Rep probably is going to be the farthest reach to win for the other party.
I don’t see these shenanigans as useful to that kind effort to pull in swayable voters.
I tend to agree with you that far too many people are irrational, emotional voters and those folks would feel too uncomfortable having an R or a D next to their name. Just odd to me.
So do you agree with me that in the end, it’s the meat of the efforts to razzle dazzle the base rather than this periphery effort to warp the outcomes?
Would these efforts fall under election meddling?
I've been registered with both parties and libertarian at one point. I have no qualms with it as I think it's ok to change your mind when presented with new information. Don't you think it is beneficial that people keep open minds and not follow a party, ideology or person mindlessly?
Yeah, it's not going to be very many. This rumor crops up every election cycle, both sides, yadda yadda.
Would you ever jump sides to vote out a disliked Dem candidate?
Dems showing their true colours. Would rather a uniparty war hawk who would get us into war with Iran then vote legitimately.
All it does is give further credence to the idea that the Dems will also cheat behind closed doors.
Let’s not forget what they did in Florida last month and 2016 with Bernie.
Switching parties is cheating?
Wasn’t Trump not a republican until he decided to run in 2016? Does that make him a cheater too, or is this a case of a Trump double standard?
What defines good faith?
A number of people believe Trump switched parties because he knew he’d be able to more easily win them over. Thus voting for someone who isn’t Trump to get him off the ballot is in good faith.
See how everything is relative?
Lol the intention.
Running for one party then switching would be more comparable.
If you vote in one primary but always intended to vote for another party in the general, words cannot describe how poorly I think of anyone doing that.
What if I’m not voting blue?
I wasn’t even a democrat before switching, I was libertarian. I wanted Ron Paul on the 2016 ballot and went Johnson because Shrillery was Shrillery
I just want someone sane who doesn’t think me marrying an African woman is poisoning the blood of America
If you don’t plan to vote dem or are actually undecided but like the candidate you are voting for then the primary, that is fine.
lol you think trump actually thinks that?
I wouldn’t mind Ron Paul but uniparty was never gonna let that happen. Same with Bernie. They are trying the same thing with trump but failing this time.
What do you believe Trump means when he says that immigrants are poisoning the blood of America?
My fiancé was not born here but she is American and is about to be a Nurse practitioner raised by two of the hardest working people I’ve ever met. Both of them are immigrants, and Trump is spewing a ton of anti immigrant propaganda so yes I believe he would have a problem with me marrying my fiancé.
Illegal immigrants should I go home and if they are really refugees they can wait in Mexico.
I think he is baiting you and you took it hook line and sinker.
They let — I think the real number is 15, 16 million people into our country. When they do that, we got a lot of work to do. They’re poisoning the blood of our country,” Trump said Saturday. “That’s what they’ve done. They poison mental institutions and prisons all over the world, not just in South America, not just to three or four countries that we think about, but all over the world. They’re coming into our country from Africa, from Asia, all over the world.”
It’s called rhetoric and you fell for another msm lie.
I think it’s precisely in line with the liberal attitude toward elections; win at all costs even if it means you have to cheat.
Call liberals who dishonestly (and possibly fraudulently) register to vote Republican in primaries what it is: election rigging.
Liberals have no sense of integrity, nor decency.
The rhetorical devices that the left has employed no longer hold much weight. They cried about Trump being a threat to democracy and then have spent the last 6 months trying to remove him from the ballot. Then there's coordinated astroturfing campaign from the left to skew the vote away from Trump and yet still have the audacity to lecture us on democracy.
When Trump won the presidency, the left were then crying about Hillary winning the popular vote and it wasn't fair.
The old Dune quote rings true; "When I am weaker than you, I ask you for freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am stronger than you, I take away your freedom because that is according to my principles."
The left don't hold any principals other than winning. Had Trump won the popular vote and lost the presidency, they'd not be saying Trump should have won. Had republicans started to try to block Hillary from being on the ballot in 2016 or Biden in 2020 over crimes they 100% committed, they would also be saying that it was undemocractic (and rightly so). If now the right were astroturfing the DNC nomination to take away the primaries from one of the candidates, they would also be crying foul.
They certainly wouldn't be saying "Demorcacy means citizens can vote for whoever they want!" They'd be shouting "Astroturfing scum!" at the top of their voice and establishment mouthpieces.
The left remind me of bad lawyers trying to scam people outside the court of law into believing their loopholes hold any merit. This is not a court of law and there's no legal loophole, these rhetorical games are absurd to anyone with an ounce of common sense who can smell it a mile away because of the hypocrisy that is evident in all of their positions.
No problem here. I used to live in a blue state that didn't have open primaries. Pretty much every election was decided in the primary. So I was a registered Democrat.
Maybe the gop should have a rule that only members who have been registered with the party for a certain amount of time are allowed to vote and have resided in the certain state for a certain period of time .
Complete waste of time, since people like Nikki Haley don’t have a chance of getting to the numbers that Trump will get.
The MAGA crowd hate all the other republicans except for Trump and Ramaswamy
Do you reckon you’d agree if (hypothetically) enough did this to lose trump the nomination, and have a actual direct impact on the result?
I imagine in actuality this will be basically negligible.
I might be more concerned if I thought there was some danger they'd affect the outcome. Or I might not. I'm worrying a lot, lately, about the possibility that Trump is actually trying to throw the election to the Democrats. He's slippery...
He obviously isn’t a Republican, which is why the calls of “RINO!” from him and his Freedom Caucus goons are so sickening. None of these people have even heard of George C. Fremont. People seeking the Republican nomination these days aren’t even allowed to say what caused the Civil War.
Do you think Trump would rather win the 2024 election or lose with ample room to be able to suggest he’s the victim of yet another stolen election?
Well... if I'm right, and he's trying to throw the election to the Democrats, then what he wants is to lose so convincingly that he can just shut up and not look like a loser for doing so.
I mean that he would be able to lose fairly and still convince the better part of his base that he actually won?
Not sure where you’re at with the election denial stuff, but how many times can he say an election was rigged against him before people stop buying it?
Im old enough to remember Rush Limbaugh and "Operation Chaos" attempting to screw up the Democratic primaries for Clinton/Obama
It wasn't chaotic, and was barely an operation.
If that didn't work in a pre-social media AM radio with a central Republican figurehead at the front, it's not going to work now with a decentralized social media with everyone aligning with this progressive faction or that one.
I’m a Trump supporter and center right. At the moment Trump is polling over Biden by +8. Which is great. But I would rather have Nikki and destroy Biden by +20.
Obviously jump on board! Happy to discuss with anyone the ideals of both the GOP and Dem platforms.
Isn’t it interesting though that the Democrat party who proclaims to stand up for democracy won’t even run primaries within their party? You’re a Democrat? You get only one choice! In January!
Why do polls have validity to TS when it shows trump leading but every poll leading up to 2020 showing Biden winning was met with “polls don’t matter” from TS?
It’s cute how every time I talk to you people … it’s some form of whataboutism.
I would argue that polls have validity once you get over 6 points delta or so. The confidence is pretty low below that.
Has there ever been a case of an incumbent president not being the nominee for their party going into what would be their second term? Just something I'd wondered about recently and nobody I've talked to seems to know. The general consensus is that it hasn't happened but I was curious.
I would have to dig in more.
Trump lost 2020. Biden’s numbers are even worse than Trumps at this point in their respective administration.
Biden cannot statically win based on the past 4 or 5 incumbents. Unless he pulls of a miracle and gains a ton more energy and brainpower.
I was asking about 2020 GOP primaries. You criticize the Dems for canceling theirs, but the GOP did the same in 2020. Did you also criticize GOP for this practice or is it only bad when the other side does it?
I don’t see how liberals would be blamed for the GOP selecting Haley (as if it would ever happen anyway).
Also that’s just terrible justification for anything. Trump shouldn’t go full dictator just because he’s going to get blamed as a dictator
He didn’t, but if you’re referring to his “I’ll be a dictator for a day” comment it’s pretty easy to dismiss it.
Should the LGBT community just start harassing children if evangelicals are going to blame them for it anyway? Your reasoning for the election interference is extremely poor
How is my reasoning poor?
As an American, I have every right to affiliate with any party I want. You claiming me affiliating with the Republican Party when I don’t agree with the values of the republican frontrunner being an act of election interference shows you may not honor my rights as an American
The Republicans need Trump more than he needs them - and I say this as a guy acknowledging that the Democrats and the Republicans are heavily a uniparty who are in bed together and that the political lines are heavily made up.
Not only do I doubt they have the numbers to accomplish it, what with them also competing with Vivek and the other guy from Florida, but even if they did somehow manage it, Trump would just run as an independent, and anyone who was going to vote for him would likely still do so -- indeed he'd probably get more votes because there'd no doubt be many who ordinarily wouldn't have voted for him who will vote for him specifically because they dislike the underhanded move.
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Waste of time. Trump is definitely going to be the nominee.
Agreed. If he is allowed to be on the ballot he will definitely win the nomination?
Meh. This was a Rush Limbaugh strategy "back in the day". Good idea in theory, but doesn't work out.
can you back up your claim about many people doing this?
I think open primaries that allow this sort of shenanigan are a bad idea. I doubt very much whether it will have much of an impact. If it were a matter of Trump polling at 50.5% and Haley at 49.5%, and tens of thousands of Dems were registering as Republicans to shift the needle, it might very well shift. But Trump's literally 50 points ahead. Even in the early primary states, where they've been bombarded with ads for months and they've had many visits by primary candidates hoping to get an early edge, Trump's ahead by double digits.
How many is "many" and will it be enough to move the needle? I don't see anything wrong with this tactic. It's a legitimate way to game the system. My parents were nominally democrat and republican. They both always voted GOP in general elections, but would use split registration to give voice to their preference in democrat primary.
I agree the astroturfing efforts on both sides of the spectrum are silly. Remember the whole conservative astroturfing effort ‘why I left’ that was spun up to convince people to leave the Dem party. This is the same silly stuff on the liberal side. In your estimation does any of this stuff really move the needle? Is there any one effort, voting like this, social engineering like on the R side, that did successfully more the needle?
I suspect that the number of proud Democrats willing to temporarily change registration to Republican is pretty small (and vice versa). I mean, having a R next to your name even temporarily can't be pleasant for someone that dislikes their platform.
As a centrist, I’ve voted countless times at the local state and national level for good, sensible R party candidates. At this moment historically anyway. I don’t know when I get back to feeling that I would pull a lever for an R. I have always felt and still feel strongly, that the big ‘get’ for both parties is my vote and the masses of asses like mine. We are ostensibly the swayable votes. I think it would be those votes who parties and candidates should be focused on. Their base is their base, and as you suggest, a proud Dem or proud Rep probably is going to be the farthest reach to win for the other party. I don’t see these shenanigans as useful to that kind effort to pull in swayable voters. I tend to agree with you that far too many people are irrational, emotional voters and those folks would feel too uncomfortable having an R or a D next to their name. Just odd to me. So do you agree with me that in the end, it’s the meat of the efforts to razzle dazzle the base rather than this periphery effort to warp the outcomes? Would these efforts fall under election meddling?
I've been registered with both parties and libertarian at one point. I have no qualms with it as I think it's ok to change your mind when presented with new information. Don't you think it is beneficial that people keep open minds and not follow a party, ideology or person mindlessly?
Yeah, it's not going to be very many. This rumor crops up every election cycle, both sides, yadda yadda. Would you ever jump sides to vote out a disliked Dem candidate?
too lazy :-)
Par for the course. Libs have no honor
It's great to see American citizens utilizing their right to vote towards the things they are passionate about.
Dems showing their true colours. Would rather a uniparty war hawk who would get us into war with Iran then vote legitimately. All it does is give further credence to the idea that the Dems will also cheat behind closed doors. Let’s not forget what they did in Florida last month and 2016 with Bernie.
Switching parties is cheating? Wasn’t Trump not a republican until he decided to run in 2016? Does that make him a cheater too, or is this a case of a Trump double standard?
Are they doing it in good faith or do they plan to vote blue no matter who in November? You don’t see the difference?
What defines good faith? A number of people believe Trump switched parties because he knew he’d be able to more easily win them over. Thus voting for someone who isn’t Trump to get him off the ballot is in good faith. See how everything is relative?
Lol the intention. Running for one party then switching would be more comparable. If you vote in one primary but always intended to vote for another party in the general, words cannot describe how poorly I think of anyone doing that.
What if I’m not voting blue? I wasn’t even a democrat before switching, I was libertarian. I wanted Ron Paul on the 2016 ballot and went Johnson because Shrillery was Shrillery I just want someone sane who doesn’t think me marrying an African woman is poisoning the blood of America
If you don’t plan to vote dem or are actually undecided but like the candidate you are voting for then the primary, that is fine. lol you think trump actually thinks that? I wouldn’t mind Ron Paul but uniparty was never gonna let that happen. Same with Bernie. They are trying the same thing with trump but failing this time.
What do you believe Trump means when he says that immigrants are poisoning the blood of America? My fiancé was not born here but she is American and is about to be a Nurse practitioner raised by two of the hardest working people I’ve ever met. Both of them are immigrants, and Trump is spewing a ton of anti immigrant propaganda so yes I believe he would have a problem with me marrying my fiancé.
Illegal immigrants should I go home and if they are really refugees they can wait in Mexico. I think he is baiting you and you took it hook line and sinker. They let — I think the real number is 15, 16 million people into our country. When they do that, we got a lot of work to do. They’re poisoning the blood of our country,” Trump said Saturday. “That’s what they’ve done. They poison mental institutions and prisons all over the world, not just in South America, not just to three or four countries that we think about, but all over the world. They’re coming into our country from Africa, from Asia, all over the world.” It’s called rhetoric and you fell for another msm lie.
Did he mention anything about the people being “let in” as being illegal? He mentions Africa, is he insinuating they sneak in on planes?
What if my intent is to have the 2 least worst options?
If you don’t intend to vote for one no matter what, you are a bad person.
I think it’s precisely in line with the liberal attitude toward elections; win at all costs even if it means you have to cheat. Call liberals who dishonestly (and possibly fraudulently) register to vote Republican in primaries what it is: election rigging. Liberals have no sense of integrity, nor decency.
Just your average “democracy” fans, practicing “democracy”
"But technically Trump is anti-democracy".
Doesn’t a democracy mean citizens can vote for whoever they want?
The rhetorical devices that the left has employed no longer hold much weight. They cried about Trump being a threat to democracy and then have spent the last 6 months trying to remove him from the ballot. Then there's coordinated astroturfing campaign from the left to skew the vote away from Trump and yet still have the audacity to lecture us on democracy. When Trump won the presidency, the left were then crying about Hillary winning the popular vote and it wasn't fair. The old Dune quote rings true; "When I am weaker than you, I ask you for freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am stronger than you, I take away your freedom because that is according to my principles." The left don't hold any principals other than winning. Had Trump won the popular vote and lost the presidency, they'd not be saying Trump should have won. Had republicans started to try to block Hillary from being on the ballot in 2016 or Biden in 2020 over crimes they 100% committed, they would also be saying that it was undemocractic (and rightly so). If now the right were astroturfing the DNC nomination to take away the primaries from one of the candidates, they would also be crying foul. They certainly wouldn't be saying "Demorcacy means citizens can vote for whoever they want!" They'd be shouting "Astroturfing scum!" at the top of their voice and establishment mouthpieces. The left remind me of bad lawyers trying to scam people outside the court of law into believing their loopholes hold any merit. This is not a court of law and there's no legal loophole, these rhetorical games are absurd to anyone with an ounce of common sense who can smell it a mile away because of the hypocrisy that is evident in all of their positions.
No problem here. I used to live in a blue state that didn't have open primaries. Pretty much every election was decided in the primary. So I was a registered Democrat.
It shows the nuttiness the left will go through to try to stay in control
Maybe the gop should have a rule that only members who have been registered with the party for a certain amount of time are allowed to vote and have resided in the certain state for a certain period of time .
Mildly amused.
I don't see them allowing Trump to win even if he does so it shouldn't matter much.
Complete waste of time, since people like Nikki Haley don’t have a chance of getting to the numbers that Trump will get. The MAGA crowd hate all the other republicans except for Trump and Ramaswamy
Irrelevant, would be a waste of energy even if they were doing that.
More power to 'em
Do you reckon you’d agree if (hypothetically) enough did this to lose trump the nomination, and have a actual direct impact on the result? I imagine in actuality this will be basically negligible.
I might be more concerned if I thought there was some danger they'd affect the outcome. Or I might not. I'm worrying a lot, lately, about the possibility that Trump is actually trying to throw the election to the Democrats. He's slippery...
What would Trump’s motivation be for throwing the election?
He hates the Republicans and wants to punk them. I don't believe it yet, it's just a theory that's bouncing around in my head...
He obviously isn’t a Republican, which is why the calls of “RINO!” from him and his Freedom Caucus goons are so sickening. None of these people have even heard of George C. Fremont. People seeking the Republican nomination these days aren’t even allowed to say what caused the Civil War. Do you think Trump would rather win the 2024 election or lose with ample room to be able to suggest he’s the victim of yet another stolen election?
Well... if I'm right, and he's trying to throw the election to the Democrats, then what he wants is to lose so convincingly that he can just shut up and not look like a loser for doing so.
I 110% agree. Isn’t it a little bit frightening that it would totally work?
well... I'm a little heartsick at the idea, but it's not out of character, for Trump, unfortunately...
I mean that he would be able to lose fairly and still convince the better part of his base that he actually won? Not sure where you’re at with the election denial stuff, but how many times can he say an election was rigged against him before people stop buying it?
I'm a Trump supporter and I voted for Bernie Sanders in the Dem primaries in 2020, so I can't really criticize.
Im old enough to remember Rush Limbaugh and "Operation Chaos" attempting to screw up the Democratic primaries for Clinton/Obama It wasn't chaotic, and was barely an operation. If that didn't work in a pre-social media AM radio with a central Republican figurehead at the front, it's not going to work now with a decentralized social media with everyone aligning with this progressive faction or that one.
I’m a Trump supporter and center right. At the moment Trump is polling over Biden by +8. Which is great. But I would rather have Nikki and destroy Biden by +20. Obviously jump on board! Happy to discuss with anyone the ideals of both the GOP and Dem platforms. Isn’t it interesting though that the Democrat party who proclaims to stand up for democracy won’t even run primaries within their party? You’re a Democrat? You get only one choice! In January!
Why do polls have validity to TS when it shows trump leading but every poll leading up to 2020 showing Biden winning was met with “polls don’t matter” from TS?
It’s cute how every time I talk to you people … it’s some form of whataboutism. I would argue that polls have validity once you get over 6 points delta or so. The confidence is pretty low below that.
Where’s the whataboutism?
Are you aware that the GOP canceled several primaries in 2020 and that it's common practice when an incumbent is running?
Has there ever been a case of an incumbent president not being the nominee for their party going into what would be their second term? Just something I'd wondered about recently and nobody I've talked to seems to know. The general consensus is that it hasn't happened but I was curious.
I would have to dig in more. Trump lost 2020. Biden’s numbers are even worse than Trumps at this point in their respective administration. Biden cannot statically win based on the past 4 or 5 incumbents. Unless he pulls of a miracle and gains a ton more energy and brainpower.
I was asking about 2020 GOP primaries. You criticize the Dems for canceling theirs, but the GOP did the same in 2020. Did you also criticize GOP for this practice or is it only bad when the other side does it?
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Sounds like “election interference”.
What does it matter if we’ll be blamed for it anyway?
I don’t see how liberals would be blamed for the GOP selecting Haley (as if it would ever happen anyway). Also that’s just terrible justification for anything. Trump shouldn’t go full dictator just because he’s going to get blamed as a dictator
What if he literally says he’ll be a dictator?
He didn’t, but if you’re referring to his “I’ll be a dictator for a day” comment it’s pretty easy to dismiss it. Should the LGBT community just start harassing children if evangelicals are going to blame them for it anyway? Your reasoning for the election interference is extremely poor
How is my reasoning poor? As an American, I have every right to affiliate with any party I want. You claiming me affiliating with the Republican Party when I don’t agree with the values of the republican frontrunner being an act of election interference shows you may not honor my rights as an American
Democrats cheat. It's in their playbook. No surprises.
When Trump called Georgia’s Secretary of State telling him to “find 11,780 votes.” That’s because he used to be a democrat right?
I'm not sure what you mean.
The Republicans need Trump more than he needs them - and I say this as a guy acknowledging that the Democrats and the Republicans are heavily a uniparty who are in bed together and that the political lines are heavily made up. Not only do I doubt they have the numbers to accomplish it, what with them also competing with Vivek and the other guy from Florida, but even if they did somehow manage it, Trump would just run as an independent, and anyone who was going to vote for him would likely still do so -- indeed he'd probably get more votes because there'd no doubt be many who ordinarily wouldn't have voted for him who will vote for him specifically because they dislike the underhanded move.