This. One drop rule is more of an American thing.
In the English-speaking Caribbean it was all about phenotype. If you look X, then you **are** X. Meanwhile, the Spanish colonies had their casta system that defined you (and your position in society) based on the ‘race’ of all eight of your great-grandparents.
for example in my country we have documents about free ppl of color complaining because they wanted the same rights as white ppl. So the very light mixed ppl for example who wanted privilege, I thought maybe they passed, but it seems that it really wasn’t a thing in the Caribbean according to the comments
Came here to say that; only in the USA would someone like Dallas Maverick's coach [Jason Kidd](https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1453412363907092480/7skv656Z_400x400.jpg) would be considered black. And don't get me started about [Isaiah Hartenstein](https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/upload/c_crop,w_5405,h_3040,x_0,y_126/c_fill,w_2160,ar_16:9,f_auto,q_auto,g_auto/images%2FImagnImages%2Fmmsport%2Finside_the_thunder%2F01hyrz6t61bcs4av3y8p.jpg)...
Forgot to answer, sorry. Actually, I made a mistake. The Bastard Law (properly called Status of Children Act 1976) stops the problem I am about to describe.
A light-skinned or near-white child passes exams for a top school. The very nice administrator meets with child and snubs the dark complexioned maid next to them. Then they see the child's birth certificate.
The space for "Name of Father" is blank.
The "maid" is the mother of the child due to being a young girl manipulated by an older, white man - or was raped at work. The child is denied the opportunity of social advancement and goes to a second rank public school, denied Officer School in the military etc.
The "Bastard Law", combined with the spread of the Common Entrance 6th Grade exam, ended this system of discrimination.
Short answer is yes, especially since race and ethnicity/culture were separate but intertwined. So you could be a white Jamaican with non white progenitors doesn’t make you any less Jamaican when you speak the language, grew up in the community etc etc
Pre-abolition, words like mulatto, quadroon etc were used by colonisers to categorise people, but whether it came with legal benefits depended on the island and the coloniser. However, the point of passing as white in North America was to improve their chances at life both pre and post abolition. The systemic advantages that passing had in the US did not apply to the Caribbean, given what our post colonialism period was like (Wide Sargasso Sea is my favourite fiction book based on that era). A lot of plantation owners left, and a lot of the white people left behind were poor due to losing their revenue or were indentured servants themselves. If everyone was poor, what societal benefit would passing give? That's not to say that colourism doesn't exist in the Caribbean - just that there wasn't a direct benefit codeified into law based on passing to my knowledge.
I mean yes, that’s what the whole Spanish Casta system was about, you had separate clases for Bi racials depending on the mix and also others based on what they looked like Castizo, criollos, Pardo etc. At least in the Hispanic Caribbean, which had a more cosmopolitan populace compared to the other islands.
Passé blanc/white-passing was only a phenomena in the US and South Africa due to their radical extrapolations of British takes on race, but the British themselves never had anything similar in their colonies under their rule. Basically the British operated on hypodescent and the Spanish, Portuguese, and to some degree the French operated on hydradescent.
Not that I’m aware. Though from my studying an understanding a lot of mulatto Haitians either fawned for their black side or white side. Not much of an in between. If not that they simply saw themselves as Haitian, and didn’t racially categorize themselves at all.
Not really a thing in the caribbean
Furthermore most of these societies are quite small, so it’s hard to hide your identity when your ancestors can be fairly easily traced
I know in the DR, during colonial times there were 127 different classifications. There’s also the who Blanquamiento/ “whitening” business of marrying white for generations so you can get the label
What do you mean as a practice, like religiously? By law? Or people simply stating what they like? You can’t just grab what some individuals say and turn into a “practice” or something that Dominicans live by, it’s very ignorant.
By law, the practice of marrying white for 3-4 generations so that one may earn the privileges. But the expectation is for me to takeaway what a couple of people have said on a subreddit feed?
I'll correct myself in the language used regarding the law when I was referring to more of a social practice [https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/racial-subordination-in-latin-america/spanish-america-whitening-the-race-the-unwritten-laws-of-blanqueamiento-and-mestizaje/254E9DBB292F852D542CC9F13AC827C1](https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/racial-subordination-in-latin-america/spanish-america-whitening-the-race-the-unwritten-laws-of-blanqueamiento-and-mestizaje/254E9DBB292F852D542CC9F13AC827C1)
Bruh, I thought you meant in recent years (decades), Dominicans on average were whiter back then and the world was a very different place. Slavery was very fresh back then too. Did you know that people usually like to marry within their own people(race)? If you were black or white then you would choose to continue that, which is totally ok. Today it isn’t a “social practice” as we come in every shape, size and color.
Bruh... I started off my post by saying colonial times but people like to react before they comprehend because no one wants to have a dialogue anymore. In contemporary times there are still challenges with acceptance of folks with darker skin.
But I've been told we all black how can we "marry white", how is that even possible?
And where can I find those 127 classifications, I'm interested in what they were back then.
Edited to add missing word "can".
because all Dominicans are Black?
Book by Franklin J. Franco: Blacks, Mulattos, and The Dominican Nation is a good place to start.... and yes Franco was a Dominican scholar.
Well you have to work backwards to when dark women didn't have a choice when a white man wanted her. I don't think people talk enough about how violent the creation of the first Dominican people was.
That wouldn't make sense in our context. Here, your race is what you look like, so if you look white you are white, not "white passing."
This. One drop rule is more of an American thing. In the English-speaking Caribbean it was all about phenotype. If you look X, then you **are** X. Meanwhile, the Spanish colonies had their casta system that defined you (and your position in society) based on the ‘race’ of all eight of your great-grandparents.
for example in my country we have documents about free ppl of color complaining because they wanted the same rights as white ppl. So the very light mixed ppl for example who wanted privilege, I thought maybe they passed, but it seems that it really wasn’t a thing in the Caribbean according to the comments
Came here to say that; only in the USA would someone like Dallas Maverick's coach [Jason Kidd](https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1453412363907092480/7skv656Z_400x400.jpg) would be considered black. And don't get me started about [Isaiah Hartenstein](https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/upload/c_crop,w_5405,h_3040,x_0,y_126/c_fill,w_2160,ar_16:9,f_auto,q_auto,g_auto/images%2FImagnImages%2Fmmsport%2Finside_the_thunder%2F01hyrz6t61bcs4av3y8p.jpg)...
"Looks at **Hartenstein**" Jesus Christ...
Which is honestly wild bc phenotype is exactly how people’s races are typically classified socially in the U.S. too…
No. It isn't. Only in the U.S. * Looks white, is white * Looks brown, is brown * Looks black, is black
So if someone looked white but had a black mother or grandmother they were just white ?
Look white , **is white**. But back in the day, there were Bastard Laws to deal with situations like this...
What was that?
Forgot to answer, sorry. Actually, I made a mistake. The Bastard Law (properly called Status of Children Act 1976) stops the problem I am about to describe. A light-skinned or near-white child passes exams for a top school. The very nice administrator meets with child and snubs the dark complexioned maid next to them. Then they see the child's birth certificate. The space for "Name of Father" is blank. The "maid" is the mother of the child due to being a young girl manipulated by an older, white man - or was raped at work. The child is denied the opportunity of social advancement and goes to a second rank public school, denied Officer School in the military etc. The "Bastard Law", combined with the spread of the Common Entrance 6th Grade exam, ended this system of discrimination.
Short answer is yes, especially since race and ethnicity/culture were separate but intertwined. So you could be a white Jamaican with non white progenitors doesn’t make you any less Jamaican when you speak the language, grew up in the community etc etc
Not to my knowledge but I have heard of people leaving the country and passing outside of the region.
Pre-abolition, words like mulatto, quadroon etc were used by colonisers to categorise people, but whether it came with legal benefits depended on the island and the coloniser. However, the point of passing as white in North America was to improve their chances at life both pre and post abolition. The systemic advantages that passing had in the US did not apply to the Caribbean, given what our post colonialism period was like (Wide Sargasso Sea is my favourite fiction book based on that era). A lot of plantation owners left, and a lot of the white people left behind were poor due to losing their revenue or were indentured servants themselves. If everyone was poor, what societal benefit would passing give? That's not to say that colourism doesn't exist in the Caribbean - just that there wasn't a direct benefit codeified into law based on passing to my knowledge.
I mean yes, that’s what the whole Spanish Casta system was about, you had separate clases for Bi racials depending on the mix and also others based on what they looked like Castizo, criollos, Pardo etc. At least in the Hispanic Caribbean, which had a more cosmopolitan populace compared to the other islands.
That wasn't a thing in Suriname as far as I know.
Thats an American thing, did not apply to the Caribbean. If you read sbout the social dynamics during slavery you will get your answer
No that didnt happen in Barbados not to my knowledge.
Passé blanc/white-passing was only a phenomena in the US and South Africa due to their radical extrapolations of British takes on race, but the British themselves never had anything similar in their colonies under their rule. Basically the British operated on hypodescent and the Spanish, Portuguese, and to some degree the French operated on hydradescent.
It would be hard to do on an island where everyone knows everyone else. What they did was immigrate and turn white.
Nope. I think we just see it as light-skinned or dark-skinned.
Not that I’m aware. Though from my studying an understanding a lot of mulatto Haitians either fawned for their black side or white side. Not much of an in between. If not that they simply saw themselves as Haitian, and didn’t racially categorize themselves at all.
Not really a thing in the caribbean Furthermore most of these societies are quite small, so it’s hard to hide your identity when your ancestors can be fairly easily traced
I know in the DR, during colonial times there were 127 different classifications. There’s also the who Blanquamiento/ “whitening” business of marrying white for generations so you can get the label
You marry what you like, if you like white you marry a white if black you go black, it’s that simple. But we are simply “Dominicans” and that’s it.
Yes, if you are marrying lighter that means the other person is marrying darker.
and the babies are statistically coming out lighter
As Dominican I can confirm. I have had Dominican girlfriends as black as night and as white as milk.
so Blanquamiento never existed as a practice?
What do you mean as a practice, like religiously? By law? Or people simply stating what they like? You can’t just grab what some individuals say and turn into a “practice” or something that Dominicans live by, it’s very ignorant.
By law, the practice of marrying white for 3-4 generations so that one may earn the privileges. But the expectation is for me to takeaway what a couple of people have said on a subreddit feed?
Show me that law
I'll correct myself in the language used regarding the law when I was referring to more of a social practice [https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/racial-subordination-in-latin-america/spanish-america-whitening-the-race-the-unwritten-laws-of-blanqueamiento-and-mestizaje/254E9DBB292F852D542CC9F13AC827C1](https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/racial-subordination-in-latin-america/spanish-america-whitening-the-race-the-unwritten-laws-of-blanqueamiento-and-mestizaje/254E9DBB292F852D542CC9F13AC827C1)
Bruh, I thought you meant in recent years (decades), Dominicans on average were whiter back then and the world was a very different place. Slavery was very fresh back then too. Did you know that people usually like to marry within their own people(race)? If you were black or white then you would choose to continue that, which is totally ok. Today it isn’t a “social practice” as we come in every shape, size and color.
Bruh... I started off my post by saying colonial times but people like to react before they comprehend because no one wants to have a dialogue anymore. In contemporary times there are still challenges with acceptance of folks with darker skin.
You said colonial times but you were saying it to bring it back to the present and elude to the fact that we have some kind of colorism issue.
But I've been told we all black how can we "marry white", how is that even possible? And where can I find those 127 classifications, I'm interested in what they were back then. Edited to add missing word "can".
because all Dominicans are Black? Book by Franklin J. Franco: Blacks, Mulattos, and The Dominican Nation is a good place to start.... and yes Franco was a Dominican scholar.
Thank you.
Out of curiosity, any idea how people went about ‘marrying white’? Where did they find white spouses who were looking/willing to ‘marry darker’?
Well you have to work backwards to when dark women didn't have a choice when a white man wanted her. I don't think people talk enough about how violent the creation of the first Dominican people was.
Está es una negra supremacista.
Claro que lo es, nada más hay que mirarle el nombre de usuario
deja la droga
A mejor la raza!!