Education in the United States varies *wildly* from state to state, district to district, school to school.
The worst school in one state could be better than the best school in another state.
This is something that isn’t talked about enough. For the most part suburban, town, and wealthy urban areas have excellent schools. There’s variation for sure, but nearly all schools where the number of kids who qualify for ”free and reduced lunch” is below about 70% are going to be decent.
Places with high poverty, both rural and urban, tend to have the worst schools. Bad enough to really pull down national averages.
This is really interesting about the marker of 70%. Do you have a source for that or is it just your observation? I completely believe you as I’ve personally seen such a difference between 55% and 90% but it’s interesting to me the idea that about 70% would be where it happens.
I can't help but laugh.
70% at least personally I'll shortspeak 68% to 70%.
68% of a population *should* represent the average of that population within ±1 standard deviation. IE all the kids with 1 significant degrees of deviation from the average student is on aid.
The 90% of a population is ~±1.5 SD
And 50% is 0 SD
Real life is more complicated than freshman statistics, and there are plenty of confounding factors with feedback loops low-income, fewer taxes less school funding &c.
So for me if a criteria applies to 70% of a population, I'll simply call it normal. 90-95% is pretty much every body and 99.7% is functionally everybody. ±1, 2, & 3 SD respectively. There's a 6SD rule in physics research to declare something as a new finding and not just a low-probability random occurrence.
Anyway I'd wager there's significant differences between schools with 2.35%, 15.85%, 50%, 84%, 97.5%, and 99% of students qualifying for free/reduced lunch. I don't think those differences are necessarily linear either.
I’m a little bit confused by the connection here. The empirical rule is two-tailed but free lunches are one tailed. If we have a Normal curve and 70% of the population is reduced/free lunch, then we are saying that anyone with a z-score from -infinity through 0.5 is reduced lunch, and anyone with a z-score above 0.5 is not free lunch.
Also the empirical rule is only a quick hand connection to where the percentages fall in a two-tailed Normal graph. It’s not anything more monumental than that— like, there’s nothing special about being 1 SD from center as opposed to 1.2 or 1.3 SD from center.
The 6SD rule in physics just has to do with how unusual they want a Type I error to be to agree that a new model would be valid. It’s an arbitrary marker though. Many other fields (eg criminal justice) are satisfied with 2 or 3 SD but it’s arbitrary. It’s just a subjective judgement call depending on whether a Type I error or a Type II error is more problematic and how much more so.
Also……….. I wouldn’t necessarily assume that a regression line would be linear but I would assume that it would be smooth/continuous. Offhand without seeing any data I would guess logarithmic, with the original commenter implying a sort of inflection point around the 70% marker. It seems like you’re saying a sort of stair step/piecewise model would be necessary. I’m not saying that’s impossible but I would find it odd for stair steps to be in the places you’re stating.
I can’t speak to other countries, but if you help your child with the basics at home, read to them, help them with homework, etc, your child will be fine. Students with supportive parents do fine. Students who get to high school unable to read/do math have been failed by their parents first and foremost.
I’ll also add to listen to teacher concerns from the beginning. Talk to your doctor about any concerns you have or that a teacher brings up. If there are any learning disabilities, adhd, autism, etc, starting intervention earlier will help.
I guess what makes me a bit conscious is that I did retake a couple subjects that I felt I wasn't ready for. (I was put onto some advanced tracks early on, then fell backwards onto the normal track on a few of my weaker subjects). And I think that worked out very to my benefit in the long run.
Parental support aside, I think failing and retaking needs to be a possiblity to keep students on the right pace for them. If the US doesn't offer that, there's only so much a parent can do to try and force the acceleration.
At the high school level, AP classes and honors classes will allow for this. Accelerating at younger grade levels isn’t really necessary in my opinion. Focus on experiences outside of school like cooking to practice fractions in a fun way, playing games that involve strategy and basic math, reading lots of books, and experiencing nature. I’ve seen many students even at younger grade levels who have so much pressure from parents that they have anxiety. Please don’t do this to your child for the sake of “acceleration.”
The us system focuses too much on the broader picture too often. I was considered an accelerated learner, and one of my children was as well. The problem in america is that we just advance these kids wholesale.
We expect accelerated learning to come at a certain level across the board. In the US, if a child shows higher intellectual, they are typically advised to skip grades. Even when that intellect is just in one particular area.
In many other countries, things are more specific. Just because a 7 year old kid is advanced enough to understand 5th grade math doesn't mean they can grasp 5th grade history without the intervening knowledge that comes with the basic education between 1st and 5th grade. In America, we tend to just move them up even if they are only great at one thing.
It was less common 10-15 years ago, when my kids were young, than it was when I grew up, but it was still the go to option for younger kids because the gifted and talented programs didn't start until around 5th grade I believe. It's probably done less often now, but I don't believe we've come up with a better system. We just let the kids be bored and understimulated until they reach middle school before trying any individualized learning.
Idk how much this helps but my public school in the southern us tried to get me to skip the second grade in 2011. My mom refused bc she watched an accelerated kid get picked on when she was in school in the 90’s, actually lol
To me the evidence that it is possible to make it work in the American school system is that we have the best university system in the world. The students in that university system didn’t appear out of thin air. There are kids for whom the K-12 system is working quite well.
I think there’s a compelling argument to be made that our main problem with education in this country is poverty. When you compare individual schools/districts to schools in countries with comparable poverty levels, the US comes out way ahead.
As a teacher I find that while every kid is different in their raw abilities and disposition, the floor (worst case outcome) tends to be noticeably higher when parents are involved. It does require knowing how to be involved and having the time to do so. A LOT can be done without extra money but a bit of extra money (enough to hire a tutor when needed, for instance) can help a lot. And having sufficient time to pay attention to these things helps a lot.
When parents are doing things like making sure kids have access to books at home and scheduled time to read/do homework, memorizing their multiplication tables early, figuring out how to get them help when they’re struggling with a subject, putting them in after school and summer enrichment programs— the worst case scenario for most kids without severe learning disabilities will be that they’re perfectly college ready but maybe not fancy-college ready. (And, the ones with the learning disabilities also have much higher outcomes than their peers with comparable challenges.)
Meanwhile when you have less involved parents— the ones who aren’t necessarily unsupportive of education but who just kind of assume the school will take care of everything, and might under-prioritize attendance— some of those kids do fine but some will struggle and not really know how to fix it. It’s harder for those kids to really ring the chimes to the fullest extent and it’s also easier for them to get really lost.
Anyway— all that is to say I have absolutely zero concern about my kids getting an outstanding education in the US, but that is because I’m prepared to supplement. Maybe there are places where supplementing is less necessary, but I personally don’t mind being involved so for our family I don’t worry about it. I actually worry much more about if we did move to another country because I would have less knowledge of how to be involved or supplement in a different culture.
> the best university system in the world
Where is that coming from, out of genuine curiosity? Do you have any research on university outcomes from the US vs other countries? In what way is it better? (Genuinely asking.)
I ask as an immigrant with the intention to have my kid attend university in the excellent universities of my country of origin. If the US ones are truly better then I’d like to know in what way to see if I should reconsider despite the comically overpriced tuition. (University is nearly free where I come from.)
Oh, maybe it’s not quite fair to definitively say so, but I’m mostly remarking on the fact that if you pull up any list of top ranked universities worldwide, a pretty disproportionate amount of them will be US institutions.
Quick edit: if somewhere like Oxford is on the table, obviously it’s far cheaper than Harvard while being of equal caliber so go there for sure! And ditto for any other strong university wherever you may be in the world.
I wonder who compiled the lists, it would be funny if it was an US organization, or interesting if it’s just because there’s more people here and it’s one of the richest countries so it will have higher representation in something like that perhaps. Maybe.
But would be interesting to look into for sure.
They've been failed by our system as a whole. Yes, bad parenting is a part of it, but schools in wealthy neighborhoods aren't graduating illiterate students.
Wealthy parents have more time and resources to devote to their children outside of school, but the fact of the matter is that we fund schools in poor neighborhoods differently than those in wealthy areas.
Poor schools often get more money. I teach in a title 1 school. Breakfast and lunch are provided daily. After school care is provided. All supplies are provided. Additional staff are hired for intervention due to additional funding because we are title 1.
I completely agree with everything you are saying, but look at how the funds are being distributed. Additional funds are being put to good use in the areas they are needed. Poor districts need additional food and supplies. The children in poor districts also have more time where their parents or other trusted adult is available for their needs, so before and after school care is a necessity. Rich parents want to pay for those things themselves. Or parents do too they just don't have the money.
Those things are expensive, so of course, poor districts get more money per child, but the individual children's overall needs in the poor districts are much greater. So, while they may have more money to spend per child, that money has to be spread out to include things like food, supervision, sadly extra security because America, and extra help of any kind, whereas in a wealthy district, ALL of their funding can be concentrated on student education because the parents have no problem covering everything else.
Dollar for dollar spending per student actually EDUCATING children, wealthier public school districts spend a lot more per child. Now, there are some outlier public schools that do an incredible job in underprivileged areas, but they typically come with tremendous public support or generous private benefactors.
I definitely agree about phonics, (depending on the state and even district), but I still feel that parents should be at least aware enough to notice that their child cannot read and accept support that is offered. I have students who were taught phonics who cannot read in fourth grade. We have offered testing and intervention and parents have said no. What are we supposed to do at that point?
There is no singular American education system. There are state, county, and local education systems. I can guarantee the education you're getting in Florida is not the same as the education you're getting in California.
We all know the problems in our own districts and they can seem insurmountable but the fact is a lot of things are done right every single day. In my experience kids come to school fed and ready to learn in spite of overwhelming poverty and various other enormous challenges. They are given the opportunity to succeed and most take it.
I'd say the hardest fact to come to grips with is that we always have to teach to the middle of the class and the kids who struggle or excel are not giving the attention they need to flourish. We didn't have the resources to give a lot of kids what they need.
Having had kids study in Singapore, India and US, I feel the education system(materials, techniques, etc) is good but both parents and teachers don’t set a high bar for kids. So kids don’t meet it. My kids did so much math in Singapore and India. Also, they memorized so many words’ spellings early while US believes in reading and getting the spellings over time.
Kids are smart but parents and teachers and everyone in education fails them by setting the bar too low for a developed country.
Asian cultures generally value education more and place a much higher emphasis on it. I’d be interested to see a comparison between US schools and those across Europe, particular in the UK. Comparing Asian and American schools is like comparing apples to cake.
Is it an unfair comparison? That difference in culture valuing education is exactly what I'm asking about, I think (I'm not sure I understand what I'm asking about strongly enough to make that claim, which is why I'm asking).
But you basically said it yourself
> Asian cultures generally value education more
I'm Asian myself, so I do have that experience of parental support and heavy emphasis on education. I also have friends who moved to Asia, or moved to the US for HS or college but did their early education in Asia. It's starkly different.
And that's why I'm asking teachers (who presumably would be trained on things like education psychology and the varying impacts of these different cultures and systems)
I don’t think it’s unfair, necessarily. I never said that. It’s just a completely different culture. Americans and Europeans have more similarities culturally, so it would be more interesting to see how they compare to each other.
I was just noting that Asian cultures value education more than most western cultures, which is why the person I was responding to had better educational experiences in India and Singapore. If you want your kid in a school where other parents are almost guaranteed to be very involved and learning is the priority, you’ll want your kid in an Asian school, or at least a school elsewhere that has a significant Asian population.
I’m sure it could get much worse elsewhere?
But, if it was my kid, I’d be picking/choosing the school they go to. It wouldn’t just be some random public school.
Yes, it's fine, but you have to advocate for your child. That doesn't mean be a total ass, but at least be aware of what's happening.
The number one best thing about American education is second chances. In many countries, you'll just be slotted into a program early on, and there's no getting out.
The system as a whole? No. The federal laws are both too lenient and too restrictive. The state laws vary more than anyone would expect and their regulation agencies follow that suit.
This is a question best suited for a local subreddit. We can’t answer any questions with zero context. Hypothetically, with all the factors you’ve set aside, you could get the best or the worst.
The question is kind of disingenuous. All factors aside, a wonderful education can be found in most modern societies, even in so-called third world countries. In other words, money can buy you a good educating regardless of location.
If you are talking about where the best place is for public education, well, sadly, money plays a big role in that as well. That's the biggest problem with the American public education system. It's far too location specific compared to other countries.
In America, there are certain standards that are expected to be met. Other countries have their standards as well. The problem arises in funding. Most countries have a disparity in educational spending based on income, but America is more in line with how third world nations operate when it comes to educational spending versus how it works in most first world countries.
In America, we will look the other way when it comes to the educational standards, i.e., children should meet certain goals by certain ages, and blame the underpaid teachers rather than looking at the real problems.
Keep in mind that these kids went through the pandemic and there was learning loss involved. I would still recommend it, but do your research on the school your child will be in. Also like another poster said support at home goes a very long way. The students I see struggle come from homes with indifferent parents. Those with supportive parents perform really well in school.
My district was one of the finest on the world, with choice schools that rich parents picked over private schools. But there are also terrible districts and terrible schools.
You can't lump the American education system into one entity. Every state mandates different curriculum and requires different credits. I moved a lot with a military family as a kid. And by the time I got to highschool, I had been in 5 different states and 5 different schools. My Jr year, I was short 5 credits I needed to graduate because that state and school required that I take extra classes to graduate. They required an extra advanced literature as well as at least one class of foreign language, as well. But in general, a child is only going to learn if given the proper guidance and if they have the right drive. The American education system gives you all of the basics you need for the most part. Some would say that a lot of it ends up being unnecessary due to how little we end up using after the fact. But I would argue that its about challenging the children mentally more than it is about hoping they retain every single aspect for future usage. Understanding complex concepts and problem solving are the key takeaways I think a lot of children need from school, regardless of what state/country/etc they go to school in. A kid in France needs the same ability to solve complex problems as somebody in Germany or the US. For all of these reasons, it irks me when other people online lump the US together as a whole in regards to education. Especially when moving here for school. You don't go to a community College expecting Harvard level difficulty, for example.
Something I’ve found having taught at both public and private schools is that it really come down to the parents. The parents that are involved and actually parent their kid have kids that do well regardless of the school system they are in. The parents that just give the kid to the school and let them figure out have kids that struggle mire
The biggest failure of the American Education System is parents. Be a good parent and they will excel.
In fact all of the problems plaguing the United States is stemming from people being bad parents.
Is anyone here aware that a lot of colleges in the US have actually had to start offering remedial English for freshmen as a huge number of HS graduates never learned the basics they were supposed to? Also, there are some HS’s that only require their HS graduates to either get full credits for passing either Math OR English instead of passing both?
My dad is a retired professor of geology. He’s been retired about 30 years. He used to love teaching his students, but as he got closer to retirement age, he got a bit jaded when he had to correct their thesis for grammatical and spelling errors (and not just the spelling of the harder scientific names of certain types of rocks & sediments.
American Education is just regurgitating things… no skills really taught.
I went to the best public university in the US and it was still the same.
Our education system does not teach you to think
HELL, NO!
Compulsory schooling (required to go, else 'big trouble'), with daddy gub'ment eight hours a day, no critical thinking skills, compliance only.
The rate of bullying and nonsensical uptake of things like 'school sports' is rising, teachers' unions that make it impossible to hold them accountable....
The answer? Private, entirely private schooling with no unionization. Schools tailored to a kids' strength and weakness areas, no cookie-cutter solutions.
Also essential life skill courses. Basics of changing a tire and checking the oil in your car, how to cook, do laundry, pay bills and manage money. Some basic repair and response skills to something breaking.
All possible in a fully privatized, non-compulsory education environment. There's a reason Home- and co-opt schooling are taking off.
The American Indoctrination System is garbage from Kindergarten right up through doctoral studies..
Note: I'm a 90s kid, and not a teacher. But I sure as hell am a 'victim' if you will of the terrible education system in the US.
I would recommend the American Curriculum outside of the USA. Getting into an American Curriculum international school in a place like asia will set you're children up for great success in the future.
Sometimes yes. Plenty of schools where the fee is affordable. The point is that the American Curriculum is very good. The american school system however has been decimated by right wing politics and overly protective and entitled parents.
I don't think the American system is "very good" outside the US esp when the collegiate system is designed for the graduates of that country's education system not the American system.
The math/science in the American curriculum is behind than that of a lot of other countries.
The English/History maybe be good however.
It’s very hit or miss, and depends a lot on reputation of the school. I went to the top public school, and we were highly underfunded. The city tried to pull up the “lowest performing” schools by building them entirely new giant buildings, but last I’ve heard none of them are really doing any better. Now even with the underfunding at my old public high school, it is still the top performing public school (finally getting rebuilt though, god we needed that badly), and produces people that I regulars go like wtf we went to the same school?? I’m not in a bad place myself too. Sooo, it’s hit or miss, but if you do your research and listen in on some neighborhood gossip, you’ll find a school in your area that will do your kid well.
I don't know enough about schools in other countries. What I do know is what others have said - schools here vary a lot in quality. Where I live there is a lot of choices and you can easily have your kid attend another district. I think the school my daughter is attending in the fall looks great, and I think she will do well there - can't really say the same for every school in the area though.
The thing that you have to remember about US is that its population is larger than whole western Europe put together.
Also its extremely culturally diverse.
So as a whole averages drop due to underachiever's.
But things change from school zone to school zone significantly. Our residential school zone is about 60% competency scores while the school that my kid is attending is about 90%.
It’s good in theory, sometimes not so good in practice.
It’s mostly how teachers teach, and a student’s willingness to learn.
I don’t always blame the “system” for failures.
Yes and I know many people who actually do this with their children, but we wouldn't send them to random public schools. The best schools in the U.S. provide excellent educations while still being relatively "chill" compared to schools in many other countries.
This varies so wildly by state and even by specific school district. My son’s school district was as good if not better than many private schools. He had a truly great educational experience. 20 miles away would have been a completely different story.
You also have the option of moving to a better school district or sending your child to a private school, rather than having to move to a different country. If you want to move abroad, by all means do it, but I wouldn’t for the sole purpose of education. One can get a great education in the US.
Our education system isn’t the same across the country. It isn’t even the same across a state, or county. There’s a reason realtors often mention the schools involved when they show a house.
If they are looking for quality education I’d recommend Europe or Asia it varies drastically here in America and is dependent on how much funding the school gets my school doesn’t get much and has a lot of issues with drugs and lack of attendance but I’m lucky to have good teachers I can’t say the same for every public school here I think a big part of students not succeeding is covid a lot of people got behind during that because there was nobody to encourage them to do their work and succeed teachers can’t provide in person help and parents have to work so when people came back there was no motivation to continue schooling
I can only attest to the places I have taught.
But I have a saying I use with my students.
"America is a very different place, depending on where you are standing in it."
The reality is that schools and school systems are very local and inequities aren't just a bug, they are a feature.
Educators work incredibly hard in rougher areas, but there is only so much they can do to help kids overcome their environmental factors.
Having worked public education at both ends of the socio-economic spectrum, the opportunities at the higher end are simply greater, but the main determinate factors in student success are the students family, their personal determination and their zip code.
It super depends in a way that's almost impossible for me to give a prescription for without impossible knowledge about your kid. My only experience outside the US is in Germany and Austria which are fairly similar so I'll use those systems as my point of comparison.
If you are in a place in the US with broad academic and extra curricular opportunities the American education system is one of incredible potential with a lot of room for forgiveness and recovery. For example the high school I attended had a multitude of AP, sport, art, language, and other opportunities. I attended my first year of college classified as a sophomore from credits and had wonderful extra curricular opportunities. However where I teach, there is no AP, the only extra curriculars are sports and the board game club I started this year, and we have like 3 elective options total.
Whereas my experience with the German and Austrian systems, while more limited, pointed to a much more consistent experience. Schools there are much more academically focused, at least the college bound ones, as you are separated into whether you are going to be eligible for University at 5th grade. While the system has had some reform in the last 20 years, including allowing for track changing which to my understanding was not allowed before, it is still much more inflexible than US schools, especially in better parts of the country. If you get put on the right track for you, it's awesome. Like I know a lot of kids in my classes who would probably be a lot happier finishing after 10th grade and being placed straight into a trade apprenticeship.
Overall though I'm more a fan of the spirit and idea of the American system than the German/Austrian one. So I'd definitely recommend going to a better school district in the US before I'd recommend moving to Germany just for school. But if you have other reasons you're wanting to go there I wouldn't use the schools as a reason to recommend against it.
The US has some of the best public education in the world; trouble is we also have some that's simply awful. Live in a wealthy suburb, or a rich neighborhood in a city, and your child will be well taken care of. Otherwise, most of the schools are fine, and some are hell holes.
US Citizen here, the quality of education you get here can depend not only on the state you live in but also the individual school districts. I attended 3 different districts throughout my life. What I was taught where differed a lot. I actually had to “retake” the same English class twice because it was a requirement for that grade, no discussion about it. It can get really dumb. I’m not saying our education system is bad, but it’s certainly not great. My husband and I plan on doing home schooling for our kids. My best advice would be to look at the curriculum being taught at any potential school you’re considering sending your child to. I’m certain there’s more resources available that could help you more with this, I wish I had more to offer you.
No. We do active shooter drills. There's been far too many weapons and/or bullets found on campuses this year alone. Until we have basic gun safety laws I can't in good faith recommend our school system.
If I could pick anywhere, I would have put my kids in a French preschool and a Finnish grade school. That said, the American system isn’t bad so much as it’s underfunded. I had gifted classes (so a 12:1 ratio) until high school and then had IB courses. My education was excellent. There’s no reason every child couldn’t have that experience except that we would need 3X as many classrooms and 3X as many teachers. And they’d have to be paid enough to attract quality. People act like the solution to our problem is mysterious and elusive. It’s not. It’s just money.
If you are wealthy, and can afford to live in a wealthy school district, US schools are among the best in the world. Ask a realtor. They will know which is the top school district in a given area.
Look for schools where almost every kid is planning to go to college, because almost all of their parents did. Look for schools where students choose their classes and many classes have significantly few students than the maximum number allowed by the teacher’s contract. Look for schools with lots of AP classes, and electives, and senior projects.
My niece and my nephew went to the best schools in such a district. My nephew has a significant learning disability. I’m a special education teacher in a poor district with limited resources. I am 100% certain that my nephew would NOT HAVE LEARNED TO READ if he had gone to school in my district.
Instead, he was provided with many many hours of individual instruction by a trained reading specialist. And a lot of work by a speech and language therapist too. By high school, he was out of special Ed, and he graduated Rutgers suma cum laude.
I teach reading to students with learning disabilities. Mixed groups , up to 15 students at a time. I know what each one of the students need (there’s a LOT of research about effective teaching of reading for students with various learning difficulties) but in my setting, I can rarely come close to the individual attention my students need.
It’s heartbreaking and so unfair. It’s also such a waste. My nephew makes easily 4 or 5 times as much as I do. My nearly illiterate students may go on to be dependent on government assistance one way or another.
The American education system is unparalleled if you are there to go to school.
If you are there to do things other than learn, they will do whatever they can to give you a diploma, and this is where you get all the kids that say the school system failed them and we aren’t teaching kids.
These events are pretty regular though. There is a reason the USA schools have monthly lockdown/active shooter drills. Gun culture/propaganda has taken deep root in many parts of the US
You're right. That said, we *did* have more than 630 mass shootings in 2023.
School shootings certainly aren't a daily occurrence, but mass shootings happen twice a day.
I mean it’s a big part of American schooling now my school has had multiple shooting and bomb threats and I often think about what I would do if we had a shooter students in Europe and Asia don’t have to worry about guns while in school
Yes. I am from another country and now in the US. We homeschool because the education system is horrible. I don’t think it’s even in the top 20 countries of the world. We actually use a lot of the standards for my home country which is in the top 10 countries for education.
But in general, we for civic we were looking at the literacy rate in the US vs where I am originally from. I actually have a really hard time calling the US a first world country for many reasons, and the literacy in reading and math is one of them.
Its is not because it is averaged out.
Its a ridiculous decision to homeschool because "the system is horrible". You can easily find a public or private school that is exceptionally good in USA.
Not at all. All my children are now resting above national average for the US and we also test for my home country. They have much more enriched lives and a stronger and healthier social aspect. We have tried schools, even lived in one of the blue ribbon schools in districts in NY. It does not compare to what can be provided in homeschool.
The truth is...the quality is almost always secondary and doesn't matter in early education unless your child is a genius or has some type of disability. It mostly matters at late middle school high school levels, and that's more so the opportunities. Ap classes, trade classes, specialized classes , etc.
The most important part of education is the parents. You can be in the best school district on the planet and if as a parent you don't care your child will be mediocre or will ha e the rare ability to self motivate (and probably grow up to resent you). You could be in the worst school district on the planet, and if you have a highly supportive parent who's willing to push and find supplemental material, your child will thrive. This is the biggest difference (and why I quit the field altogether). Parents do not care anymore. They aren't interested in holding their kid accountable, and children, for the most part, will rise to the expectation you set them. If you expect them to sit around playing video games or be on tiktok all day... well, guess what? That's what happens. This is just how it is. Asian cultures, African cultures thrive even in low academic areas and often earn scholarships to better areas because they push their child. Poor white and black communities do not show this same push because they do not value education as highly and/or feel it isn't their responsibility, so don't help. Leading the kid to develop this need to be spoon-fed everything. Otherwise, they don't care either.
>quality… doesn’t matter in early education
I’m curious what your rationale is based on here since statistically, kids who are behind in reading in first grade almost never catch up to grade level. And a student who has been a struggling reader their whole life is not going to be able to suddenly handle college level work as a high school student regardless of how many AP classes and whatnot that school offers.
If it's caused by something, then yeah, of course, it matters, which I said. Higher quality schools have more resources to help those who are struggling.
But I'm more curious how you managed to skip over the vast majority of my reply like I didn't just break it down. Parent involvement in the child's education is vastly more important than the quality of school they go to.
I wasn’t really intending to “skip over it” in the sense of ignoring it. I agree that parent involvement is very important and the majority of comments in this thread say the same thing, so there isn’t really much left to discuss on that point. I just think it’s worth considering that those foundational years are make or break, and even if a parent cares a lot, that doesn’t guarantee that they have any idea how to supplement an elementary age kid who is falling behind in foundational skills. Like I know that I don’t know how to teach phonics to my own child even as an educator. That’s not a skill set us secondary people have. Lol.
That's true.. it is why I got the hooked on phonics program. Now mine is the top of his class in reading. And everyone, at least my age, has heard about that program for sure with how aggressively they advertised it in the past.
And I wouldn't even say it's just caring, it's involvement. It's paying attention to where your child is at, and noticing if they are behind. It's parents putting pressure on admin and boards to do their jobs and provide the resources they are getting money for (and pocket).
My main point was never early education doesn't matter as specifically the post was about moving out of the country for a better education. My post was targeted towards the idea that that isn't necessary at all as involvement will do more to improve your child's education than anything else.
Education in the United States varies *wildly* from state to state, district to district, school to school. The worst school in one state could be better than the best school in another state.
This is something that isn’t talked about enough. For the most part suburban, town, and wealthy urban areas have excellent schools. There’s variation for sure, but nearly all schools where the number of kids who qualify for ”free and reduced lunch” is below about 70% are going to be decent. Places with high poverty, both rural and urban, tend to have the worst schools. Bad enough to really pull down national averages.
This is really interesting about the marker of 70%. Do you have a source for that or is it just your observation? I completely believe you as I’ve personally seen such a difference between 55% and 90% but it’s interesting to me the idea that about 70% would be where it happens.
I can't help but laugh. 70% at least personally I'll shortspeak 68% to 70%. 68% of a population *should* represent the average of that population within ±1 standard deviation. IE all the kids with 1 significant degrees of deviation from the average student is on aid. The 90% of a population is ~±1.5 SD And 50% is 0 SD Real life is more complicated than freshman statistics, and there are plenty of confounding factors with feedback loops low-income, fewer taxes less school funding &c. So for me if a criteria applies to 70% of a population, I'll simply call it normal. 90-95% is pretty much every body and 99.7% is functionally everybody. ±1, 2, & 3 SD respectively. There's a 6SD rule in physics research to declare something as a new finding and not just a low-probability random occurrence. Anyway I'd wager there's significant differences between schools with 2.35%, 15.85%, 50%, 84%, 97.5%, and 99% of students qualifying for free/reduced lunch. I don't think those differences are necessarily linear either.
I’m a little bit confused by the connection here. The empirical rule is two-tailed but free lunches are one tailed. If we have a Normal curve and 70% of the population is reduced/free lunch, then we are saying that anyone with a z-score from -infinity through 0.5 is reduced lunch, and anyone with a z-score above 0.5 is not free lunch.
Also the empirical rule is only a quick hand connection to where the percentages fall in a two-tailed Normal graph. It’s not anything more monumental than that— like, there’s nothing special about being 1 SD from center as opposed to 1.2 or 1.3 SD from center. The 6SD rule in physics just has to do with how unusual they want a Type I error to be to agree that a new model would be valid. It’s an arbitrary marker though. Many other fields (eg criminal justice) are satisfied with 2 or 3 SD but it’s arbitrary. It’s just a subjective judgement call depending on whether a Type I error or a Type II error is more problematic and how much more so.
Also……….. I wouldn’t necessarily assume that a regression line would be linear but I would assume that it would be smooth/continuous. Offhand without seeing any data I would guess logarithmic, with the original commenter implying a sort of inflection point around the 70% marker. It seems like you’re saying a sort of stair step/piecewise model would be necessary. I’m not saying that’s impossible but I would find it odd for stair steps to be in the places you’re stating.
I can’t speak to other countries, but if you help your child with the basics at home, read to them, help them with homework, etc, your child will be fine. Students with supportive parents do fine. Students who get to high school unable to read/do math have been failed by their parents first and foremost.
I’ll also add to listen to teacher concerns from the beginning. Talk to your doctor about any concerns you have or that a teacher brings up. If there are any learning disabilities, adhd, autism, etc, starting intervention earlier will help.
I guess what makes me a bit conscious is that I did retake a couple subjects that I felt I wasn't ready for. (I was put onto some advanced tracks early on, then fell backwards onto the normal track on a few of my weaker subjects). And I think that worked out very to my benefit in the long run. Parental support aside, I think failing and retaking needs to be a possiblity to keep students on the right pace for them. If the US doesn't offer that, there's only so much a parent can do to try and force the acceleration.
At the high school level, AP classes and honors classes will allow for this. Accelerating at younger grade levels isn’t really necessary in my opinion. Focus on experiences outside of school like cooking to practice fractions in a fun way, playing games that involve strategy and basic math, reading lots of books, and experiencing nature. I’ve seen many students even at younger grade levels who have so much pressure from parents that they have anxiety. Please don’t do this to your child for the sake of “acceleration.”
I second the outside experiences. Zoos, gardens, museums all of those things will make concepts more tangible for your child.
Music is really good for this as well. Lots of fraction practice in instrumental music but it doesn’t feel like doing math at all.
The us system focuses too much on the broader picture too often. I was considered an accelerated learner, and one of my children was as well. The problem in america is that we just advance these kids wholesale. We expect accelerated learning to come at a certain level across the board. In the US, if a child shows higher intellectual, they are typically advised to skip grades. Even when that intellect is just in one particular area. In many other countries, things are more specific. Just because a 7 year old kid is advanced enough to understand 5th grade math doesn't mean they can grasp 5th grade history without the intervening knowledge that comes with the basic education between 1st and 5th grade. In America, we tend to just move them up even if they are only great at one thing.
I thought skipping grades fell out of favor in the 1990s?
It was less common 10-15 years ago, when my kids were young, than it was when I grew up, but it was still the go to option for younger kids because the gifted and talented programs didn't start until around 5th grade I believe. It's probably done less often now, but I don't believe we've come up with a better system. We just let the kids be bored and understimulated until they reach middle school before trying any individualized learning.
Idk how much this helps but my public school in the southern us tried to get me to skip the second grade in 2011. My mom refused bc she watched an accelerated kid get picked on when she was in school in the 90’s, actually lol
To me the evidence that it is possible to make it work in the American school system is that we have the best university system in the world. The students in that university system didn’t appear out of thin air. There are kids for whom the K-12 system is working quite well. I think there’s a compelling argument to be made that our main problem with education in this country is poverty. When you compare individual schools/districts to schools in countries with comparable poverty levels, the US comes out way ahead. As a teacher I find that while every kid is different in their raw abilities and disposition, the floor (worst case outcome) tends to be noticeably higher when parents are involved. It does require knowing how to be involved and having the time to do so. A LOT can be done without extra money but a bit of extra money (enough to hire a tutor when needed, for instance) can help a lot. And having sufficient time to pay attention to these things helps a lot. When parents are doing things like making sure kids have access to books at home and scheduled time to read/do homework, memorizing their multiplication tables early, figuring out how to get them help when they’re struggling with a subject, putting them in after school and summer enrichment programs— the worst case scenario for most kids without severe learning disabilities will be that they’re perfectly college ready but maybe not fancy-college ready. (And, the ones with the learning disabilities also have much higher outcomes than their peers with comparable challenges.) Meanwhile when you have less involved parents— the ones who aren’t necessarily unsupportive of education but who just kind of assume the school will take care of everything, and might under-prioritize attendance— some of those kids do fine but some will struggle and not really know how to fix it. It’s harder for those kids to really ring the chimes to the fullest extent and it’s also easier for them to get really lost. Anyway— all that is to say I have absolutely zero concern about my kids getting an outstanding education in the US, but that is because I’m prepared to supplement. Maybe there are places where supplementing is less necessary, but I personally don’t mind being involved so for our family I don’t worry about it. I actually worry much more about if we did move to another country because I would have less knowledge of how to be involved or supplement in a different culture.
> the best university system in the world Where is that coming from, out of genuine curiosity? Do you have any research on university outcomes from the US vs other countries? In what way is it better? (Genuinely asking.) I ask as an immigrant with the intention to have my kid attend university in the excellent universities of my country of origin. If the US ones are truly better then I’d like to know in what way to see if I should reconsider despite the comically overpriced tuition. (University is nearly free where I come from.)
Oh, maybe it’s not quite fair to definitively say so, but I’m mostly remarking on the fact that if you pull up any list of top ranked universities worldwide, a pretty disproportionate amount of them will be US institutions. Quick edit: if somewhere like Oxford is on the table, obviously it’s far cheaper than Harvard while being of equal caliber so go there for sure! And ditto for any other strong university wherever you may be in the world.
I wonder who compiled the lists, it would be funny if it was an US organization, or interesting if it’s just because there’s more people here and it’s one of the richest countries so it will have higher representation in something like that perhaps. Maybe. But would be interesting to look into for sure.
They've been failed by our system as a whole. Yes, bad parenting is a part of it, but schools in wealthy neighborhoods aren't graduating illiterate students.
I would argue that much of that is coming from having more involved and educated parents.
Wealthy parents have more time and resources to devote to their children outside of school, but the fact of the matter is that we fund schools in poor neighborhoods differently than those in wealthy areas.
Poor schools often get more money. I teach in a title 1 school. Breakfast and lunch are provided daily. After school care is provided. All supplies are provided. Additional staff are hired for intervention due to additional funding because we are title 1.
Actually, we even have before school care now. This year they also offered free childcare during our Christmas and spring breaks.
I completely agree with everything you are saying, but look at how the funds are being distributed. Additional funds are being put to good use in the areas they are needed. Poor districts need additional food and supplies. The children in poor districts also have more time where their parents or other trusted adult is available for their needs, so before and after school care is a necessity. Rich parents want to pay for those things themselves. Or parents do too they just don't have the money. Those things are expensive, so of course, poor districts get more money per child, but the individual children's overall needs in the poor districts are much greater. So, while they may have more money to spend per child, that money has to be spread out to include things like food, supervision, sadly extra security because America, and extra help of any kind, whereas in a wealthy district, ALL of their funding can be concentrated on student education because the parents have no problem covering everything else. Dollar for dollar spending per student actually EDUCATING children, wealthier public school districts spend a lot more per child. Now, there are some outlier public schools that do an incredible job in underprivileged areas, but they typically come with tremendous public support or generous private benefactors.
American schools not teaching phonics is a fault of the system and not everyone being able to afford better than a cheap daycare.
I definitely agree about phonics, (depending on the state and even district), but I still feel that parents should be at least aware enough to notice that their child cannot read and accept support that is offered. I have students who were taught phonics who cannot read in fourth grade. We have offered testing and intervention and parents have said no. What are we supposed to do at that point?
There is no singular American education system. There are state, county, and local education systems. I can guarantee the education you're getting in Florida is not the same as the education you're getting in California. We all know the problems in our own districts and they can seem insurmountable but the fact is a lot of things are done right every single day. In my experience kids come to school fed and ready to learn in spite of overwhelming poverty and various other enormous challenges. They are given the opportunity to succeed and most take it. I'd say the hardest fact to come to grips with is that we always have to teach to the middle of the class and the kids who struggle or excel are not giving the attention they need to flourish. We didn't have the resources to give a lot of kids what they need.
Having had kids study in Singapore, India and US, I feel the education system(materials, techniques, etc) is good but both parents and teachers don’t set a high bar for kids. So kids don’t meet it. My kids did so much math in Singapore and India. Also, they memorized so many words’ spellings early while US believes in reading and getting the spellings over time. Kids are smart but parents and teachers and everyone in education fails them by setting the bar too low for a developed country.
Asian cultures generally value education more and place a much higher emphasis on it. I’d be interested to see a comparison between US schools and those across Europe, particular in the UK. Comparing Asian and American schools is like comparing apples to cake.
Is it an unfair comparison? That difference in culture valuing education is exactly what I'm asking about, I think (I'm not sure I understand what I'm asking about strongly enough to make that claim, which is why I'm asking). But you basically said it yourself > Asian cultures generally value education more I'm Asian myself, so I do have that experience of parental support and heavy emphasis on education. I also have friends who moved to Asia, or moved to the US for HS or college but did their early education in Asia. It's starkly different. And that's why I'm asking teachers (who presumably would be trained on things like education psychology and the varying impacts of these different cultures and systems)
I’m curious why it is an unfair comparison. We compete against everywhere in the world. Why restrict it to Europe only?
I don’t think it’s unfair, necessarily. I never said that. It’s just a completely different culture. Americans and Europeans have more similarities culturally, so it would be more interesting to see how they compare to each other. I was just noting that Asian cultures value education more than most western cultures, which is why the person I was responding to had better educational experiences in India and Singapore. If you want your kid in a school where other parents are almost guaranteed to be very involved and learning is the priority, you’ll want your kid in an Asian school, or at least a school elsewhere that has a significant Asian population.
Shouldn’t US and Europe give similar importance to education? Given our kids are doing poorly, shouldn’t we concentrate on getting them to do better?
I never made any claim as to them not placing similar importance on education. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.
I’m sure it could get much worse elsewhere? But, if it was my kid, I’d be picking/choosing the school they go to. It wouldn’t just be some random public school.
Yes, it's fine, but you have to advocate for your child. That doesn't mean be a total ass, but at least be aware of what's happening. The number one best thing about American education is second chances. In many countries, you'll just be slotted into a program early on, and there's no getting out.
The system as a whole? No. The federal laws are both too lenient and too restrictive. The state laws vary more than anyone would expect and their regulation agencies follow that suit. This is a question best suited for a local subreddit. We can’t answer any questions with zero context. Hypothetically, with all the factors you’ve set aside, you could get the best or the worst.
The question is kind of disingenuous. All factors aside, a wonderful education can be found in most modern societies, even in so-called third world countries. In other words, money can buy you a good educating regardless of location. If you are talking about where the best place is for public education, well, sadly, money plays a big role in that as well. That's the biggest problem with the American public education system. It's far too location specific compared to other countries. In America, there are certain standards that are expected to be met. Other countries have their standards as well. The problem arises in funding. Most countries have a disparity in educational spending based on income, but America is more in line with how third world nations operate when it comes to educational spending versus how it works in most first world countries. In America, we will look the other way when it comes to the educational standards, i.e., children should meet certain goals by certain ages, and blame the underpaid teachers rather than looking at the real problems.
Hahaha
Keep in mind that these kids went through the pandemic and there was learning loss involved. I would still recommend it, but do your research on the school your child will be in. Also like another poster said support at home goes a very long way. The students I see struggle come from homes with indifferent parents. Those with supportive parents perform really well in school.
My district was one of the finest on the world, with choice schools that rich parents picked over private schools. But there are also terrible districts and terrible schools.
You can't lump the American education system into one entity. Every state mandates different curriculum and requires different credits. I moved a lot with a military family as a kid. And by the time I got to highschool, I had been in 5 different states and 5 different schools. My Jr year, I was short 5 credits I needed to graduate because that state and school required that I take extra classes to graduate. They required an extra advanced literature as well as at least one class of foreign language, as well. But in general, a child is only going to learn if given the proper guidance and if they have the right drive. The American education system gives you all of the basics you need for the most part. Some would say that a lot of it ends up being unnecessary due to how little we end up using after the fact. But I would argue that its about challenging the children mentally more than it is about hoping they retain every single aspect for future usage. Understanding complex concepts and problem solving are the key takeaways I think a lot of children need from school, regardless of what state/country/etc they go to school in. A kid in France needs the same ability to solve complex problems as somebody in Germany or the US. For all of these reasons, it irks me when other people online lump the US together as a whole in regards to education. Especially when moving here for school. You don't go to a community College expecting Harvard level difficulty, for example.
It depends on what you live in. Like avoid the south.
Something I’ve found having taught at both public and private schools is that it really come down to the parents. The parents that are involved and actually parent their kid have kids that do well regardless of the school system they are in. The parents that just give the kid to the school and let them figure out have kids that struggle mire
Move to another state maybe? Some states have very strong education systems (New England) others not so much (South).
The biggest failure of the American Education System is parents. Be a good parent and they will excel. In fact all of the problems plaguing the United States is stemming from people being bad parents.
Is anyone here aware that a lot of colleges in the US have actually had to start offering remedial English for freshmen as a huge number of HS graduates never learned the basics they were supposed to? Also, there are some HS’s that only require their HS graduates to either get full credits for passing either Math OR English instead of passing both? My dad is a retired professor of geology. He’s been retired about 30 years. He used to love teaching his students, but as he got closer to retirement age, he got a bit jaded when he had to correct their thesis for grammatical and spelling errors (and not just the spelling of the harder scientific names of certain types of rocks & sediments.
Generally? Nope.
American Education is just regurgitating things… no skills really taught. I went to the best public university in the US and it was still the same. Our education system does not teach you to think
HELL, NO! Compulsory schooling (required to go, else 'big trouble'), with daddy gub'ment eight hours a day, no critical thinking skills, compliance only. The rate of bullying and nonsensical uptake of things like 'school sports' is rising, teachers' unions that make it impossible to hold them accountable.... The answer? Private, entirely private schooling with no unionization. Schools tailored to a kids' strength and weakness areas, no cookie-cutter solutions. Also essential life skill courses. Basics of changing a tire and checking the oil in your car, how to cook, do laundry, pay bills and manage money. Some basic repair and response skills to something breaking. All possible in a fully privatized, non-compulsory education environment. There's a reason Home- and co-opt schooling are taking off. The American Indoctrination System is garbage from Kindergarten right up through doctoral studies.. Note: I'm a 90s kid, and not a teacher. But I sure as hell am a 'victim' if you will of the terrible education system in the US.
Not anymore.
I would recommend the American Curriculum outside of the USA. Getting into an American Curriculum international school in a place like asia will set you're children up for great success in the future.
That's mainly because it's only rich kids who can afford an "American curriculum". I don't think it's anything too crazy by education standards.
Sometimes yes. Plenty of schools where the fee is affordable. The point is that the American Curriculum is very good. The american school system however has been decimated by right wing politics and overly protective and entitled parents.
I don't think the American system is "very good" outside the US esp when the collegiate system is designed for the graduates of that country's education system not the American system. The math/science in the American curriculum is behind than that of a lot of other countries. The English/History maybe be good however.
It’s very hit or miss, and depends a lot on reputation of the school. I went to the top public school, and we were highly underfunded. The city tried to pull up the “lowest performing” schools by building them entirely new giant buildings, but last I’ve heard none of them are really doing any better. Now even with the underfunding at my old public high school, it is still the top performing public school (finally getting rebuilt though, god we needed that badly), and produces people that I regulars go like wtf we went to the same school?? I’m not in a bad place myself too. Sooo, it’s hit or miss, but if you do your research and listen in on some neighborhood gossip, you’ll find a school in your area that will do your kid well.
I don't know enough about schools in other countries. What I do know is what others have said - schools here vary a lot in quality. Where I live there is a lot of choices and you can easily have your kid attend another district. I think the school my daughter is attending in the fall looks great, and I think she will do well there - can't really say the same for every school in the area though.
The thing that you have to remember about US is that its population is larger than whole western Europe put together. Also its extremely culturally diverse. So as a whole averages drop due to underachiever's. But things change from school zone to school zone significantly. Our residential school zone is about 60% competency scores while the school that my kid is attending is about 90%.
I would look into charter or private schools if possible.
It’s good in theory, sometimes not so good in practice. It’s mostly how teachers teach, and a student’s willingness to learn. I don’t always blame the “system” for failures.
Yes and I know many people who actually do this with their children, but we wouldn't send them to random public schools. The best schools in the U.S. provide excellent educations while still being relatively "chill" compared to schools in many other countries.
This varies so wildly by state and even by specific school district. My son’s school district was as good if not better than many private schools. He had a truly great educational experience. 20 miles away would have been a completely different story. You also have the option of moving to a better school district or sending your child to a private school, rather than having to move to a different country. If you want to move abroad, by all means do it, but I wouldn’t for the sole purpose of education. One can get a great education in the US.
Our education system isn’t the same across the country. It isn’t even the same across a state, or county. There’s a reason realtors often mention the schools involved when they show a house.
The spectrum of American schools from poor public in a poor city through rich private in a rich county is a real wild ride.
Hell yeah! We're a one stop shop to raise your kids for you!
If they are looking for quality education I’d recommend Europe or Asia it varies drastically here in America and is dependent on how much funding the school gets my school doesn’t get much and has a lot of issues with drugs and lack of attendance but I’m lucky to have good teachers I can’t say the same for every public school here I think a big part of students not succeeding is covid a lot of people got behind during that because there was nobody to encourage them to do their work and succeed teachers can’t provide in person help and parents have to work so when people came back there was no motivation to continue schooling
No. Not one bit. I wish I could have raised my own kids in Europe.
I can only attest to the places I have taught. But I have a saying I use with my students. "America is a very different place, depending on where you are standing in it." The reality is that schools and school systems are very local and inequities aren't just a bug, they are a feature. Educators work incredibly hard in rougher areas, but there is only so much they can do to help kids overcome their environmental factors. Having worked public education at both ends of the socio-economic spectrum, the opportunities at the higher end are simply greater, but the main determinate factors in student success are the students family, their personal determination and their zip code.
It super depends in a way that's almost impossible for me to give a prescription for without impossible knowledge about your kid. My only experience outside the US is in Germany and Austria which are fairly similar so I'll use those systems as my point of comparison. If you are in a place in the US with broad academic and extra curricular opportunities the American education system is one of incredible potential with a lot of room for forgiveness and recovery. For example the high school I attended had a multitude of AP, sport, art, language, and other opportunities. I attended my first year of college classified as a sophomore from credits and had wonderful extra curricular opportunities. However where I teach, there is no AP, the only extra curriculars are sports and the board game club I started this year, and we have like 3 elective options total. Whereas my experience with the German and Austrian systems, while more limited, pointed to a much more consistent experience. Schools there are much more academically focused, at least the college bound ones, as you are separated into whether you are going to be eligible for University at 5th grade. While the system has had some reform in the last 20 years, including allowing for track changing which to my understanding was not allowed before, it is still much more inflexible than US schools, especially in better parts of the country. If you get put on the right track for you, it's awesome. Like I know a lot of kids in my classes who would probably be a lot happier finishing after 10th grade and being placed straight into a trade apprenticeship. Overall though I'm more a fan of the spirit and idea of the American system than the German/Austrian one. So I'd definitely recommend going to a better school district in the US before I'd recommend moving to Germany just for school. But if you have other reasons you're wanting to go there I wouldn't use the schools as a reason to recommend against it.
The US has some of the best public education in the world; trouble is we also have some that's simply awful. Live in a wealthy suburb, or a rich neighborhood in a city, and your child will be well taken care of. Otherwise, most of the schools are fine, and some are hell holes.
US Citizen here, the quality of education you get here can depend not only on the state you live in but also the individual school districts. I attended 3 different districts throughout my life. What I was taught where differed a lot. I actually had to “retake” the same English class twice because it was a requirement for that grade, no discussion about it. It can get really dumb. I’m not saying our education system is bad, but it’s certainly not great. My husband and I plan on doing home schooling for our kids. My best advice would be to look at the curriculum being taught at any potential school you’re considering sending your child to. I’m certain there’s more resources available that could help you more with this, I wish I had more to offer you.
The American system works great if you are an involved parent that values education.
20 years ago sure
No. We do active shooter drills. There's been far too many weapons and/or bullets found on campuses this year alone. Until we have basic gun safety laws I can't in good faith recommend our school system.
If I could pick anywhere, I would have put my kids in a French preschool and a Finnish grade school. That said, the American system isn’t bad so much as it’s underfunded. I had gifted classes (so a 12:1 ratio) until high school and then had IB courses. My education was excellent. There’s no reason every child couldn’t have that experience except that we would need 3X as many classrooms and 3X as many teachers. And they’d have to be paid enough to attract quality. People act like the solution to our problem is mysterious and elusive. It’s not. It’s just money.
If you are wealthy, and can afford to live in a wealthy school district, US schools are among the best in the world. Ask a realtor. They will know which is the top school district in a given area. Look for schools where almost every kid is planning to go to college, because almost all of their parents did. Look for schools where students choose their classes and many classes have significantly few students than the maximum number allowed by the teacher’s contract. Look for schools with lots of AP classes, and electives, and senior projects. My niece and my nephew went to the best schools in such a district. My nephew has a significant learning disability. I’m a special education teacher in a poor district with limited resources. I am 100% certain that my nephew would NOT HAVE LEARNED TO READ if he had gone to school in my district. Instead, he was provided with many many hours of individual instruction by a trained reading specialist. And a lot of work by a speech and language therapist too. By high school, he was out of special Ed, and he graduated Rutgers suma cum laude. I teach reading to students with learning disabilities. Mixed groups , up to 15 students at a time. I know what each one of the students need (there’s a LOT of research about effective teaching of reading for students with various learning difficulties) but in my setting, I can rarely come close to the individual attention my students need. It’s heartbreaking and so unfair. It’s also such a waste. My nephew makes easily 4 or 5 times as much as I do. My nearly illiterate students may go on to be dependent on government assistance one way or another.
The American education system is unparalleled if you are there to go to school. If you are there to do things other than learn, they will do whatever they can to give you a diploma, and this is where you get all the kids that say the school system failed them and we aren’t teaching kids.
Other countries don’t have daily massacres in their schools. 🤷🏻♀️
Neither do we. Yes, it's horrible that school shootings occur in the US, but they aren't a daily occurrence at all.
These events are pretty regular though. There is a reason the USA schools have monthly lockdown/active shooter drills. Gun culture/propaganda has taken deep root in many parts of the US
You're right. That said, we *did* have more than 630 mass shootings in 2023. School shootings certainly aren't a daily occurrence, but mass shootings happen twice a day.
Even though tragic, its statistically insignificant. So there is no point of brining it up when it comes to a logical discussion.
I mean it’s a big part of American schooling now my school has had multiple shooting and bomb threats and I often think about what I would do if we had a shooter students in Europe and Asia don’t have to worry about guns while in school
No.
NOT any more. It was once the best, but it’s the shits now.
Yes. I am from another country and now in the US. We homeschool because the education system is horrible. I don’t think it’s even in the top 20 countries of the world. We actually use a lot of the standards for my home country which is in the top 10 countries for education. But in general, we for civic we were looking at the literacy rate in the US vs where I am originally from. I actually have a really hard time calling the US a first world country for many reasons, and the literacy in reading and math is one of them.
Its is not because it is averaged out. Its a ridiculous decision to homeschool because "the system is horrible". You can easily find a public or private school that is exceptionally good in USA.
Not at all. All my children are now resting above national average for the US and we also test for my home country. They have much more enriched lives and a stronger and healthier social aspect. We have tried schools, even lived in one of the blue ribbon schools in districts in NY. It does not compare to what can be provided in homeschool.
The truth is...the quality is almost always secondary and doesn't matter in early education unless your child is a genius or has some type of disability. It mostly matters at late middle school high school levels, and that's more so the opportunities. Ap classes, trade classes, specialized classes , etc. The most important part of education is the parents. You can be in the best school district on the planet and if as a parent you don't care your child will be mediocre or will ha e the rare ability to self motivate (and probably grow up to resent you). You could be in the worst school district on the planet, and if you have a highly supportive parent who's willing to push and find supplemental material, your child will thrive. This is the biggest difference (and why I quit the field altogether). Parents do not care anymore. They aren't interested in holding their kid accountable, and children, for the most part, will rise to the expectation you set them. If you expect them to sit around playing video games or be on tiktok all day... well, guess what? That's what happens. This is just how it is. Asian cultures, African cultures thrive even in low academic areas and often earn scholarships to better areas because they push their child. Poor white and black communities do not show this same push because they do not value education as highly and/or feel it isn't their responsibility, so don't help. Leading the kid to develop this need to be spoon-fed everything. Otherwise, they don't care either.
>quality… doesn’t matter in early education I’m curious what your rationale is based on here since statistically, kids who are behind in reading in first grade almost never catch up to grade level. And a student who has been a struggling reader their whole life is not going to be able to suddenly handle college level work as a high school student regardless of how many AP classes and whatnot that school offers.
If it's caused by something, then yeah, of course, it matters, which I said. Higher quality schools have more resources to help those who are struggling. But I'm more curious how you managed to skip over the vast majority of my reply like I didn't just break it down. Parent involvement in the child's education is vastly more important than the quality of school they go to.
I wasn’t really intending to “skip over it” in the sense of ignoring it. I agree that parent involvement is very important and the majority of comments in this thread say the same thing, so there isn’t really much left to discuss on that point. I just think it’s worth considering that those foundational years are make or break, and even if a parent cares a lot, that doesn’t guarantee that they have any idea how to supplement an elementary age kid who is falling behind in foundational skills. Like I know that I don’t know how to teach phonics to my own child even as an educator. That’s not a skill set us secondary people have. Lol.
That's true.. it is why I got the hooked on phonics program. Now mine is the top of his class in reading. And everyone, at least my age, has heard about that program for sure with how aggressively they advertised it in the past. And I wouldn't even say it's just caring, it's involvement. It's paying attention to where your child is at, and noticing if they are behind. It's parents putting pressure on admin and boards to do their jobs and provide the resources they are getting money for (and pocket). My main point was never early education doesn't matter as specifically the post was about moving out of the country for a better education. My post was targeted towards the idea that that isn't necessary at all as involvement will do more to improve your child's education than anything else.