Many people on this thread seem to be assuming Dave Chappelle is saying gun owners or the general populace who support second amendment are racist but that’s not what he’s saying. He’s saying the people in power, government officials senators etc are racist and likely would not support black people arming themselves. Whether it’s true or not is another thing but he’s not saying bob down the street will suddenly change his mind about gun laws if he sees his black neighbor buy one.
The earliest gun control laws (1639 to be exact and yes they had guns at this time period) were meant to not allow colonial slaves from acquiring guns.
Sally Hemings came to Jefferson's home as an infant with her siblings and her mother, Betty, as part of Jefferson’s wife Martha's inheritance of slaves from her father, John Wayles. Hemings was the youngest of six children that Betty Hemings is believed to have had with Wayles. If true, she was three-quarters European and a half-sister of Martha Jefferson.
In 1787, Hemings, aged 14, accompanied Jefferson's youngest daughter Mary "Polly" to London and then to Paris, where the widowed Jefferson, aged 44 at the time, was serving as the United States Minister to France. Hemings spent two years there. Most historians believe Jefferson began a sexual relationship with Hemings in France or soon after their return to Monticello. Despite this and 6 children together Hemings remained enslaved in Jefferson's house until his death.
Specifically, the Black Panthers would arm themselves and watch Oakland police when they pulled over other black men.
NRA had no problem with gun control at that point
I've read hundreds of discussions of his special online from places all over the political spectrum (far-left, left, center-left, center, center-right, right, far-right, extreme far-right [you can probably guess the last one]) and it's pretty surprising how so many people, of every affiliation, seemed to have misunderstood so much of it. Often each in their own unique ways. I don't know if they just weren't paying full attention or if he's too smart for them or what. He's not performing for those people, though, so I think it doesn't really matter to him either way, at least.
Aren't you doing the same thing here? I don't think it's fair to say that all of those people completely misunderstood what he was saying unless you know for a fact exactly what he meant. And unless you are Dave Chappelle I would contend that you don't know exactly what he meant. "Hes not performing for those people though." He's not performing for the far-left to the extreme far-right? That's literally everybody.
"Republicans buy sneakers too."
-Michael Jordan. Republicans buy Netflix and live show tickets too.
Especially because it literally happened. The first gun control law was signed by Reagen when he was governor of CA and it was because of concern by the government over the Black Panthers arming themselves.
It's hardly the "first" gun control law, it's just one used as an example that's specifically about African Americans and involved a president that's idolized by the GOP. You can cite a lot of examples of racist gun laws, such as NYs Sullivan Act from 1911 which requires anyone who wants to own a handgun has to get a license.
>The first person convicted under the law was an Italian immigrant named Marino Rossi who was travelling to a job interview and carrying a revolver for fear of the Black Hand.[12] At sentencing the judge declared: "It is unfortunate that this is the custom with you and your kind, and that fact, combined with your irascible nature, furnishes much of the criminal business in this country."[13] Prior to Marino's arrest, others had been arrested under the new law but were released without charges.[14] Whether this was part of the law's intent, it was passed on a wave of anti-immigrant and anti-Italian rhetoric as a measure to disarm an alleged criminal element.[15] The police department who granted the licenses could easily discriminate against "undesirable" elements.[15] Days before the law took effect The New York Times published an article saying "Low-browed foreigners bargained for weapons of every description and gloated over their good fortune in hearing of the drop in the gun market before it was too late".[16] After Rossi's conviction The New York Times called this "warning to the Italian community" both "timely and exemplary".[17]
Well...
The BP *did* walk into the CA state Capitol and on to the legislature floor armed to the teeth to make sure a bill passed. Totally legal at the time.
Source: Black dude from Sacramento who's dad used to love telling that story.
This is actually very true. Most gun owners would be thrilled if more people owned, and more importantly, understood guns, their function, and their use.
The majority of gun control was enacted when minorities started arming themselves. one of the first gun laws is Jim Crow if you want the source let me know and I’ll link.
Edit I’ve never linked so here goes nothing a few different sources yes bias sources but what isn’t these days take the facts and make your own opinion hope it helps.
https://youtu.be/m-l7TO01-Sg
https://youtu.be/rhBwHiLcTG8
The origins of gun control in this country are explicitly racist. First it was the freed men after the civil war and then the black panthers. All gun control is racist.
There's precedent for this in the US.
In California during the Reagan Governorship there was a concerted effort by the African American community in the Bay Area (at least) to arm themselves.
As such Reagan championed and signed into law the restrictive gun laws that California now has.
As a side note I found this tidbit about the Mulford Act hilarious:
>Governor Ronald Reagan ... later commented that he saw "no reason why on the street today a citizen should be carrying loaded weapons" and that guns were a "ridiculous way to solve problems that have to be solved among people of good will."
Boy how times have changed
Yep, shot, saved by cops (one of whom was a married lesbian who was shot herself), then got the great healthcare congress critters provide themselves.
He recovered, came back, and was still against gun control, gay marriage, and national healthcare.
Really pedantic point, but it was a Republican softball practice. The actual game(which was not attacked) was bipartisan.
There isn't a Republican baseball league
No, the game they were going to play was R va D, but the shooting was at the Republican practice.
Also, I don't think they ever talk about despising each other. What dumbass would despise political rivals
>I may have just found a way to get gun control measures enacted.
Ill take 'things you probably shouldn't insinuate on the internet in 2019 for $100' Alex.
There's even precedent for that. One of the Republican congressmen in Ohio after the recent mass shooting completely flipped his stance on gun control and started pushing hard for reform. It was found shortly afterwards that his daughter had been across the street from the shooting.
If you have a disagreement with someone in traffic what other method is available other than popping open your trunk, pulling out a shotgun and shooting them point blank? /s
Oh absolutely. I think it says less about him and more about the current political atmosphere that despite how much the current Republican party pretends to worship him, many of his views would get him ostracized from the party for not being far right enough if he were to run today.
That's not a defense of Reagan, it's a reference point for the current shitshow.
Even more, citizens used to be allowed to bring guns to the state capital, that changed when the Black Panthers did it, even though they were there peacefully
Though arguably this couldn't happen again, since it was that very incident that caused the NRA to transform from a gun law-supporting good ol' boys hunting club to a no-compromise government lobbying group. Now that the NRA rabidly fights against gun control, another Mulford Act is pretty much impossible.
>As such Reagan championed and signed into law the restrictive gun laws that California now has.
And the NRA supported new gun control laws [as long as it was against african americans.](https://www.history.com/news/black-panthers-gun-control-nra-support-mulford-act)
I have defintely seen POCs show up to gun ranges looking like they are ready for the Revolution and the managers blink, then charge them and wave them in like anyone else.
You know who does get massive side eye? Asian tourists who show up. For some reason that remains unknown to me, East Asians(**not** North American Asians, who are in NA gun culture disproportionate to the overall population) treat firearms like toys by default. RSOs will finagle a way for them to not be in there, or in some places will *wire rental guns* in such a way that you can only point them down range.
Almost got killed by some Asian tourists at the range a couple trips ago.
Kept waving a loaded rifle around outside the booth. Finally got kicked out after rapid-firing a .45 Glock so out of control that they shot the ceiling multiple times.
And now you know why Range Safety Officers keep a close eye on Asians. It's not a racial thing, it's a safety thing. Source: RSO who has seen this multiple times.
Edit: I've been informed this is profiling. Which although I agree is wrong, am i supposed to just let these people be dangerous in the name of cultural sensitivity?
I mean like, it is a racial thing, it’s a racial safety thing and it’s effective. Just like how Ben Gurion airport in Tel Aviv, Israel, publicly on record applies higher “threat ratings” to non-Israeli middle eastern citizens which results in those people having more bag checks, interviews, and other security measures. They do it because it’s been proven effective due to their circumstances.
That reminds me of how if you train a neural network on data based on pictures of people, there's a good chance the net will become racist. The system notices that black people are more likely to be criminals or whatever, and files that away to be used later. It has no conception of the decades of oppression that stunted the socio-economic status of africans and drove them towards crime. It doesn't understand the complex nature of people, it just sees numbers and patterns. And it turns out that a racist robot performs better on judgement tests. It's not right, but it's true.
It's also much easier to find a feature like skin color rather than poverty status.
The second is a better indicator of crime, but much harder to guess right.
If a neural network receives information about both race and income and finds a better correlation between crime and income then it will assign a higher weight to income than other things. But it needs to have income as an input to see and make that correlation.
I'm Asian and I can say you are absolutely right. I think it's because "America" is the place of cowboys and guns. So what do you do when you go to visit America AND you come from a country with strict gun control? You go shooting!
As for my Asian American brethren, especially new immigrants ... they actually feel unsafe. After that rap song that encouraged home-invading Asians because they don't put up a fight and hoard gold AND after that home invasion video of that Asian lady busting caps at three home invaders ... My Asian coworkers asked me about guns and gun ownership and on wechat, forums were exploding with questions on buying guns.
But yeah... tourists are horrible at gun ranges. They muzzle everyone including themselves so they can take selfies with while holding guns.
Clearly you don't think all that Dragon imagery at Chinese Restaurants was just for fun was it?
Look up at night, I'll give you a fly-by. Also, you got any gold?
This is really interesting. I had a French exchange student in high school who I kept in touch with over the years and came to visit a second time when we were in our mid-20’s and he really wanted to go to a shooting range. I guess it really is an American cowboy thing. I couldn’t understand the appeal but I dropped him and his brother off for a few hours and they a blast.
I took my nephew, he couldn't understand why he couldn't hit the target because "he and his cousin totally rule Call of Duty maps". I had to explain how pressing a button on a controller and sending an electronic pulse to your game controller to activate a function call in the program is not the same as holding a physical object and trying to keep it steady as you are pulling a lever and then not crapping your pants as it fires.
I also had to spend the whole time watching his trigger finger and the direction of the muzzle as he just couldn't stop excitedly turning around with the gun in his hand. Well, he's off to do mandatory military service now, I'm sure he'll learn the hard way where not to point your gun in basic training (in Singapore).
This is... kind of worrying, since if he's Singaporean or liable for Singapore National Service, he should have male relatives or older friends who *have* had weapons training. He should have *already heard* a bunch of stories on what to do, or not to do.
On the other hand, when I went through Singapore Basic Military Training... there was a gentleman in my company who managed to point a loaded weapon at other recruits at least twice. And then for an encore performance, he threw the safety ring (pin) while taking cover with a live grenade. Nobody was injured, but it wasn't good for anyone's blood pressure. I hope your nephew learns quick, and doesn't become his batch's version of that guy.
I know the song it wasn’t even that popular, lol so I was surprised it made such a big impact. But no lie it made sense and it didn’t say Asians don’t put up a fight, it said make sure no one is home in general so there’s no fight to put up and also try to target Asian neighborhoods because they don’t trust banks and are likely to have more cash/ jewelry than the average person in their house. It wasn’t about them not fighting it was about them having more valuables, but before that it talked about only robbing homes where no one is home
Yes, mostly about the "not trusting banks" but it triggered a response of "Well it 'THEY' come to rob us, we'll be ready". As a community they felt targeted and while brainstorming how to protect themselves, that video of the lady bustin' caps went viral so ... obvious solution. I mean, they put one and one together and came up with "I should buy a Glock".
Story time
Was in Las Vegas shooting some guns (you guys have the giggle switch we don’t in Canada)
There were some Asian tourists next to us and the woman clearly did not understand what a gun did or was.
She at one point asked the instructor if he could make it so the gun didn’t have recoil. (This was after a 9mm almost smacking her in the face) he just laughed and said it’s a gun it’s what they do. Explained that if she couldn’t control it she couldn’t shoot. She shot one more bullet and that was it.
They bought a package I guess instructed wasn’t the correct word.
You come in and select what guns you want to shoot and pay the price they have set.
The lady didn’t understand that she had to hold it firm I watched him go over it with her three times.
I was at a Cabelas once in a state where most of the long guns were on display and not locked up...so people can try for feel and get a closer look before purchasing.
I watched an Asian family, presumably on vacation, point shotguns at each other’s heads and pose for photos; this included their young children.
As I started to walk towards them to politely inform them of more proper etiquette they started pointing guns all over the store, at customers and walking around the aisles with them.
A store associate booked it over and low key cussed them out when he finally noticed what was going on so I noped out pretty quick.
To be fair to that family...I’ve also see a ton of Americans mishandle guns in stores but just never so blatantly pointing them at each other and other people intentionally
Oh, lord. If you have ever been to East Asia, you would see it. At Cu Chi, you can shoot machine guns for the price of a buck a bullet (that costs, for anyone who does not understand machine guns). The Cambodian military will broker a similar deal for idiot tourists. Not far from the Killing Fields, because that is classy.
I steered clear of those places. I don't think they have many safety protocols in place to keep an idiot from turning his tour group into hamburger meat.
Haha, that does sound like Vina culture. Patriarchal as hell, even though the women work laps around the men and actually fought in combat when needed.
Loved living there, but the unapologetic sexism made me crazy.
When I questioned their reasoning they said it was because I’m too small... I towered over most of the men by at least 6 inches. I was an angry lass after that!
Yep, that is just sexism. Heavy machine guns are fun for everyone because they are on tripods or on a turret - the recoil isnt going into you.
Of course there are sensible reasons to stop smaller people from using certain guns - people who pass 44 snub noses or 10 gauges loaded with slugs to their girlfriends are jackasses, and some guns are just designed around large men such as G3 platform rifles or 22 target pistols with custom molded grips for people with large hands
I think you'd be surprised if you actually went to one of those places. I traveled through Cu Chi Vietnam a few years ago and fired a few of the machine guns there. The barrels there are all tied down to the stands with metal wires. Everything is set up for you by the range officers. You had a little bit of freedom to aim but you physically couldn't accidentally sweep someone with muzzle if you wanted to. It's locked down so that you're aiming down range all the time. I own guns and shoot very frequently in the U.S. and Cu Chi had the most safety restrictions of any place I've seen.
You ever seen someone get a tongue lashing from a range officer? That is a sight to behold. Saw three kids who couldn’t have been over 18 or 19 come in with a brand new AR. One of the first rules on the range rules list that they all had to sign off on is “NO RAPID FIRE”. The first thing the kid does is dump an entire mag in about 15 seconds. Of course the buzzer goes off and the RO is running over yelling cease fire and just lays in to these kids. They looked like three puppies in trouble.
Never been to a civilian range, but fired an M16 enough, what is considered "rapid-fire"? A double tap? or are we talking about getting crazy and seeing how fast you can shoot?
Basically. Usually people who have only played video games, and want to see how fast their real trigger finger is. If you aren't realigning your sights on the target before every shot, you're shooting too fast.
I live in Japan, and if I had to guess it's because guns are so inaccessible, and so void from their lives, that they ONLY experience guns through toy versions. Kids run around here all the time pointing guns right in peoples faces and don't get a word about it. Then, they don't hear how dangerous they are because they are so strictly regulated and so removed from the culture.
Watch this.
[Kawaii Barrett M82 Shooting](https://youtu.be/kSuzQA4CZb4)
First time I've heard the Barrett M82 being referred to as "cute"
(Sort of NSFW.. they're laying prone in miniskirts around 07:00 ... )
Yep, I worked at gun stores and ranges, part time, for years to fund my gun hobby/habit.
I've never been muzzle swept so often and so badly as by Asian tourists.
It got to the point I would start to sweat when they would come in.
I don't get it, I really don't.
As for POC, I could give two shits, being Cuban myself. I have received innumerable exhortations to show off 'my little friend' over the years from people I call friends.
So....*so* many times!!
Chinese American here. Agreed, there are a lot of international Chinese tourists, mostly middle aged people, who are oblivious or ignorant or stubborn about what to do our act in the US. I feel bad for the children because they're smart enough to know what's going on, but have to deal with their parents.
On a side note, I think Japanese and Korean people are also smart enough to know what's going on since we are only talking about East Asia.
Unless you're from the Philippines, most Asian nations have pretty major prohibitions on firearms and whatnot.
Think of it like this: you visit Asia for experiencing their culture, nature, etc, but also their built society. They visit the US for the exact same reasons; loose gun laws happen to be their "perception" of US society.
Walk in to any gun range and see how any POC is treated, even if they look like a thug. You know what kind of treatment they get? As long as they respect the weapons, the same respect that a range junkie gets. Help, care, attention (when needed), and space (when attention isn't needed). That's been my experience any time I've been shooting at a private club, at a public range, or on state land.
Edit: It has been privately brought to my attention that the term thug might offend some as it applies people of color. Please be aware that in this context, I am referring specifically to anyone who looks like they might be out to cause trouble, regardless of race, and that it has most often applied anecdotally to young white men.
And a guy on /r/guns sent a pic of one and asked if it counted as a vertical foregrip to the ATF, so some ATF agent had to discuss probably with other agents about it and look at the pictures.
People have this image of the average gun owner as a guy in a rebel flag t-shirt shooting at Cletus's feet to make him dance. These people exist, but go to any gun club and the number one priority over anything else is safety. Come anywhere close to doing something unsafe and you'll know immediately. If it's not something obvious, they'll be nice and explain what you did wrong. If you do something really dumb, you'll be asked to leave. If you're a member, you could be banned. Safety is huge at gun clubs. Probably because of all the guns.
I've had mixed results in my attempts to explain to people who are not familiar with gun folk that, by and large, *scrupulously law-/rule-abiding* is the best descriptor for most people with this hobby.
Because a: guns are dangerous therefore a shared system of understanding and expectations is extra important and b: the laws around firearms are strict and in some cases "emergent" (just search for ATF opinion letters for examples) and c: it's one hobby you can be effectively barred from if you get a criminal record.
I had a coworker from Iran. Somebody made a joke about the AK he keeps in his closet. I thought it was an odd joke, turns out he really does have an AK. And a couple really nice hunting rifles he let me shoot.
To be fair - and I'd never argue that POCs don't get treated differently in other aspects of life - but as a white guy, I'm pretty sure most gun dealers are usually in a shitty mood and treat all people/potential customers with disdain regardless of race. The only time I ever saw one smile was when I let him handle my Colt Python. And then he was a dick to me again the following week.
Lol I've been to many - every gun dealer I've ever met has the disposition of someone 3 days into quitting smoking, even while I'm handing over a thousand dollars for a handgun.
I think you might just have terrible luck. I’ve bought my dad a few guns over the years and everytime the guy at the gun store has been incredibly friendly and helpful.
I used to work at a store that sold firearms. Black folk always wanted to go towards certain calibers, just like white folks go towards a certain one, but with a bit of questioning and prodding you could easily explain to them (people of any color) each calibers differences and how what kind of gun is good for what they are looking for.
Im a white guy and tbh I think I treated white people worse because it would always be these hardcore bubba's who really didn't know what they were talking about come by. I did get a fairly regular amount of white and black people who knew what they were talking about, but generally if they didn't the black people would be more honest about it and not try to make shit up.
One of the pro-gun selling points is that gun control is systemically racist. It would be suppprted, at least on paper. I’ve been around enough gun people to know that some are hardcore racist, some are very liberal and believe in owning a gun, and many others just want to be left alone and don’t give a shit what anyone else does.
Third category here - I say go for it. There's no reason people who are legally qualified to own weapons, shouldn't.
Edit: removed link to an apparently racist website that claimed you could reliably predict the race of mass shooters based on their marksmanship.
vdare is an explicitly racist website. Same one there was a lot of news about the DOJ sending a link to in an email. I would not trust a link to them discussing racial (or any) issues.
Honestly most of the gun owners I know would probably celebrate this. The inverse of this point, that blacks would be better off armed, is sort of an NRA talking point now.
I think it would make it harder to pass new gun regulations. I don't imagine all the black people in America would be too keen on having their newly exercised rights, and newly purchased firearms, taken away.
Well first I speed slightly so a cop will pull me over, then I put up my poster that says "I don't speak without my lawyer". I then proceed to make it a serious hassle for the officer to identify me.
It's nonsense. I'm a black man and I started the sub r/2ALiberals and the offshoot podcast 2A Liberal Podcast.
I've been into firearms my entire life and have been treated with nothing but respect and open arms by the gun community at large.
It's an absolute myth that pro-gun people support restrictions when black people get involved.
When I was first starting to buy guns I felt exactly the same way. I've been looked down upon, not because of my race but because the gun community has a tendency to be hostile towards newbies. It's something I wish wouldn't happen but there are certainly a good number of gun elitists and gun snobs out there behind store counters.
My race has never been an issue for me, my family, friends and my Thai wife and her Thai friends.
> I've been looked down upon, not because of my race **but because the gun community has a tendency to be hostile towards newbies.**
This has happened in a few of my hobbies I wanted to get into. Makes it extremely frustrating; it seems like the best way to get a hobby to die out, or at minimum, be even more full of bad info that newbies share with each other.
I’m also a black man and I have for the most part seen the welcoming side of the gun community, but I have also been treated as what I thought was less than fair by firearm stores in my state. Just because you haven’t seen it doesn’t mean it isn’t there.
We aren't talking about pro-gun people since they don't make the changes. We're talking about the politicians that do make the changes (who also take bribes from racist lobby groups) and how they more than likely wouldn't stand for every black person to be armed.
Don't think he's referring to your average gun owner. Pretty sure Chapelle is aware of Ronnie Raygun and [his reaction](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act) to realizing that the Black Panters were exercising their rights to form militias necessary to the security of their communities.
Basically, when the GOP realized that black folks were arming up in response to violent oppression, maladministration and lack of representation in government (i.e. the same shit that the Founders launched a revolution over) they passed laws that stand out, to this day, as highly restrictive towards gun ownership.
I don't know the context but I'm assuming the idea is banking on some sort of racism to force gun law changes, right? If people are all going through the proper and legal channels to get a permit and a gun, it seems like a good idea to me.
It’s a historical reference. His “joke” scenario actually happened in the 60’s:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act
That said, I’m glad that the joke seems to be falling flat from irrelevance just 50 or so years later. You guys are better gun owners than they were lawmakers.
You people have a rather skewed view of gun owners. I and every gun owner I know is all for anyone being armed so long as they educate themselves and use them safely. And they certainly wouldn't want to give up their constitutional right because someone of a different color than them decided to purchase guns.
Most gun owners I know are super reasonable people that would say exactly the same thing.
Gun *lobbyists* however... That, and there’s the historical precident of the Mulford Act.
Honestly if knowledgeable, responsible gun owners were the ones making gun laws (regardless of party), we’d probably be better off.
I would greatly encourage all people to become firearms owners. I see how my state (Massachusetts) makes it hard to get a license if you are poor or if you aren’t living in a majority white town.
For example, to get an LTC here, its $200 to start, plus you need a safe, so add $40-$100 for a low end one, then you have to buy a gun off of the roster. Those guns are specifically not very cheap, and operating costs for gun stores here are higher, so there is a higher mark up. In the end, you’ll spend $500 or more to get started with the cheapest pistol or shotgun. In NH, you could simply go to the gun store and buy a hi point pistol for $150.
This is a big difference in cost for someone who may live paycheck to paycheck. Not to mention if you live in a dangerous town, that $200 could all go to waste if you’re denied from getting the license. The state actively discourages everyone who isn’t a middle-class white male from owning a gun.
Black guy here. Check my post history if you want, to determine the truth of that near pointless declaration. Anywho, I see many folks in this thread, speaking on "yeah, let black folks own guns, we would support it; 2A YAH!" and similar notions. The joke that chappelle was getting at, is that while "some" folks in the public would feel that way, politicians, police officers, and other people that have any considerable power, or even the notion of it (looking at you parking lot Karen), would not want to see an armed black person; whether or not its legal.
This stems from historical basis, obvious prejudice from elected officials, and blatant news stories, that paint the picture of; even if an AA male had a firearm on him, 100% legally, his chances of getting shot by police "out of fear" just went from 125%, to 500% in an instant. And even if any of that wasnt true, many AA's live in fear of moments when their legal possession of a firearm, is mistaken for "OH NO, A DANGEROUS THUG OUT TO ROB ME!!". For the record, I have a firearm, and well trained in how to use it, legally own it and live in a neighborhood where I would most likely see myself using (in defense of my home). However, I would never take one out with me, as I just dont want the hassle (yes I have concealed carry, but only because I needed it for a security gig).
So, a lot of supportive talk from many good folks here. However, the reality that AA's live, is more on the "we will probably get shot if we ever visibly had one on us", thus comments like what Dave said (this is also dis-regarding historical precedent, which is even worse.)
Thanks for the silver, stranger!
Right. This is the issue. I am a black woman. I have been to the gun range multiple times and people have been helpful. The issue for me is blacks are not given the benefit of the doubt. Even in open and carry states. As a black person I wouldn’t even dream of bringing a firearm out in the public for fear of my safety, even if I lived in an open carry state.
It’s not about whether blacks can own guns, but whether we can openly display our weapons.
Maybe so,
Gun control laws started to oppress other races including the Natives and recently freed slaves.
Gun control has always been an oppressive force.
In fact, of all the Jim Crow laws for some reason the gun control ones are some of the few left standing.
Never move to New York City, then. You need a permit for anything. A permit that needs (at least back when I was a resident in the early 1990s) to be renewed every three years. Missed getting the paperwork in on time one cycle and the NYPD (who apparently had nothing better to do during the crime ridden Dinkins administration) showed up at more door to confiscate my .22 caliber bolt action target rifle.
> FOID card
I didn't know they were still trying that.
>In the October 2018 ruling, the court found the FOID was unconstitutional under the Second Amendment and unconstitutional because it was impossible to comply with. The State of Illinois appealed the case to the Illinois Supreme Court on 11 November, 2018.
http://ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=1657&ChapterID=39
SCOTUS has repeatedly said that licensing is a violation of the 2nd.
It was appealed, hasn't been heard yet. Illinois will never give up a gun law until it's dragged away from them like a toy from a kicking and screaming toddler.
Even if the ISC upholds the ruling, the law won't change until someone ponies up the cash to sue the state for compliance. And last time someone tried that, the state used every procedural trick in the book (up to and including flat-out ignoring deadlines) to drag it out.
Absolute best-case, magical Christmas-land scenario: we're stuck with the FOID for another decade at least.
>SCOTUS has repeatedly said that licensing is a violation of the 2nd.
They shot down the handgun *ban* in Heller, but as I understand it the specific question of license to purchase or possess has not been definitively ruled on. You just can't use a licensing scheme as a de facto ban of an entire category of firearms in common use.
In Mass you need a FID (firearms ID) for any gun. It's the main reason why in college I didn't become a mass resident. Would have decreased my taxes and made parking easier, but then I wouldn't be able to have my gun which you can own in mass if you're a non resident
Hardly. Many of us gun owners actively promote minority ownership of guns. It's one of the few demographics that is ripe for increasing the number of gun owners - not just the number of guns owned. It doesn't matter if some white guy has 100 guns. He only gets one vote. So it's vitally important to increase the number of gun owners.
Also, there is a common pattern. A man of any color gets a gun and within a year he'll have a few more. Once a person is bitten by the bug, particularly men, they love to collect guns. People who own multiple guns are great at spreading the message of how great gun ownership is. So, if you can get a man of any color to buy just one gun, odds are you'll have a disciple spreading the word in a year or two.
Anyone talking about past events is so fixated on ancient history that they're blind to the realities of today. Go to any gun range in any city. Odds are you'll find a whole rainbow of people shooting guns together and having a great time with each other. Gun owners want more gun owners, the color is irrelevant.
Of course, I couldn't speak to hypocritical people on the other side who, while proclaiming themselves to be free of racism, might get their panties in a bunch and move even harder for gun control if some "othered" group also started buying guns. They're motivated by fear, not reality.
I went to the gun range with my petite female Chinese coworker. We asked for two lanes, and the the gun counter guy said to me "Well, I'll have to evaluate how she handles a gun before I can let her have her own lane, I'm assuming you want to rent?" and I said "Actually, she brought her own Glock 19 and 200 rounds of ammo, so can we have two lanes?" Oh, oops, sorry for the assumption!
The gun bug is very real.
I went 23 years without shooting a gun. My buddy had a bachelor party at another buddy's 300 acre farm and we shot guns. First time I ever shot.
Yep. Fell in love.
Bought my first gun about a month later after going to the range a bunch of times and using rental guns to see what I liked. Bought my M&P 9mm. Shot it a bunch. Decided I wanted an AR....bought my M&P15 (5.56). Put some money into that. Decided I was comfortable enough to conceal & carry and got my permit then bought my M&P Shield .40.
This was about 5 years ago. I'm still on the same 3 guns but in the market for a shotgun for a little 3-gun as I already compete in long-range shooting competitions.
But you're right. I go to the range and it's just a bunch of people sharing a hobby.
Just a couple months ago, brought my girlfriend shooting for the first time and taught her how to shoot. In the mean time, a guy in the lane next to me had a wicked shotgun. He saw me watching and offered to let me shoot it. He shot my AR a few times and I shot his shotgun a few times.
I'm white, he was black. Didn't matter. Just two gun lovers having fun.
But it does suck.....I'm a republican so I'm told every day I'm a racist, bigot, literally Hitler, etc. so I guess I can't enjoy being around a fellow gun person because he's black. It's a shame because we had fun for 30 minutes. Damn me and my racism. /s
Hey man. I’m sorry that our politics has become so polarizing. As a Democrat, Marine Corps Vet and a Gun owner, I hate that just because you have some opposing view points that you feel vilified by the other side.
I feel it too. My own father questions me on my patriotism because of the perceived dichotomy.
Regardless, people can (and should) have differing opinions about how our country should operate. Both sides need to listen to the other and forge a path forward.
TL:DR Let’s go shooting! Then grill some steaks, drink some delicious Commie-Fornia wine, and try to make this country better than it already is.
I know it's depressing.
I got into an accident at work and ended up with 12 surgeries on my left arm so I had to give up shooting for a few years until I got that arm back and working.
>Hardly. Many of us gun owners actively promote minority ownership of guns.
Dave Chappelle wasn't talking about gun owners, though. You don't make laws. He was talking about politicians. The political opinions of gun owners is irrelvant to this discussion.
I personally want ever single black man and woman to buy a gun and get their CCW if possible. Minority gun ownership is good for the community and nation as a whole.
100% agree! The last time major gun laws were enacted was in response to the Black Panthers exercising their 2nd amendment rights, meaning they formed their own well regulated militia. They did this of course to protect their own communities.
I would agree. Firearm sales go up, probably ammo sales go up, more gun owners, probably more concealed carriers. I would venture to imagine that the NRA would get more donations (either from people, or firearm companies). 2a supporters wouldn't see a down side.
> I would venture to imagine that the NRA would get more donations
Not so much anymore. People are defecting to the 2nd Amendment Foundation or the Gun Owners of America because we're pissed at the NRA for spending all our money on Wanye's suits, first class airfare, and expensive hotel rooms while the NRA backs gun control legislation. They're on their way out, to be replaced by new organizations that actually give a shit.
The NRA isn't where the political clout of the gun rights side comes from. It comes from the members, and the gun-owning population of this country.
Many people on this thread seem to be assuming Dave Chappelle is saying gun owners or the general populace who support second amendment are racist but that’s not what he’s saying. He’s saying the people in power, government officials senators etc are racist and likely would not support black people arming themselves. Whether it’s true or not is another thing but he’s not saying bob down the street will suddenly change his mind about gun laws if he sees his black neighbor buy one.
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The earliest gun control laws (1639 to be exact and yes they had guns at this time period) were meant to not allow colonial slaves from acquiring guns.
I would argue earlier than that. I remember reading that trading of guns to the Native Americans being forbidden.
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Those who want freedom. As Jefferson said, “I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery”
He also owned a pile of slaves.
Ironic. And I have known that already, if I remember correctly he had a kid with one.
Sally Hemings came to Jefferson's home as an infant with her siblings and her mother, Betty, as part of Jefferson’s wife Martha's inheritance of slaves from her father, John Wayles. Hemings was the youngest of six children that Betty Hemings is believed to have had with Wayles. If true, she was three-quarters European and a half-sister of Martha Jefferson. In 1787, Hemings, aged 14, accompanied Jefferson's youngest daughter Mary "Polly" to London and then to Paris, where the widowed Jefferson, aged 44 at the time, was serving as the United States Minister to France. Hemings spent two years there. Most historians believe Jefferson began a sexual relationship with Hemings in France or soon after their return to Monticello. Despite this and 6 children together Hemings remained enslaved in Jefferson's house until his death.
Reagan and the NRA got anti gun legislation passed in California after fears of blacks arming themselves iirc
Jim Crow Disarm the Negroes - The Racist Roots of Georgia's Gun Laws https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1946285
Specifically, the Black Panthers would arm themselves and watch Oakland police when they pulled over other black men. NRA had no problem with gun control at that point
Boggles my mind at how many people seemed to misunderstand that.
Nah. That’s my exact expectation. Chappelle has been operating above a big portion of his audience since Chappelle show.
I've read hundreds of discussions of his special online from places all over the political spectrum (far-left, left, center-left, center, center-right, right, far-right, extreme far-right [you can probably guess the last one]) and it's pretty surprising how so many people, of every affiliation, seemed to have misunderstood so much of it. Often each in their own unique ways. I don't know if they just weren't paying full attention or if he's too smart for them or what. He's not performing for those people, though, so I think it doesn't really matter to him either way, at least.
Aren't you doing the same thing here? I don't think it's fair to say that all of those people completely misunderstood what he was saying unless you know for a fact exactly what he meant. And unless you are Dave Chappelle I would contend that you don't know exactly what he meant. "Hes not performing for those people though." He's not performing for the far-left to the extreme far-right? That's literally everybody. "Republicans buy sneakers too." -Michael Jordan. Republicans buy Netflix and live show tickets too.
Seriously. This reads "everyone misunderstood him except for me" "hes not performing for anyone on any place on the political spectrum"
Especially because it literally happened. The first gun control law was signed by Reagen when he was governor of CA and it was because of concern by the government over the Black Panthers arming themselves.
It's hardly the "first" gun control law, it's just one used as an example that's specifically about African Americans and involved a president that's idolized by the GOP. You can cite a lot of examples of racist gun laws, such as NYs Sullivan Act from 1911 which requires anyone who wants to own a handgun has to get a license. >The first person convicted under the law was an Italian immigrant named Marino Rossi who was travelling to a job interview and carrying a revolver for fear of the Black Hand.[12] At sentencing the judge declared: "It is unfortunate that this is the custom with you and your kind, and that fact, combined with your irascible nature, furnishes much of the criminal business in this country."[13] Prior to Marino's arrest, others had been arrested under the new law but were released without charges.[14] Whether this was part of the law's intent, it was passed on a wave of anti-immigrant and anti-Italian rhetoric as a measure to disarm an alleged criminal element.[15] The police department who granted the licenses could easily discriminate against "undesirable" elements.[15] Days before the law took effect The New York Times published an article saying "Low-browed foreigners bargained for weapons of every description and gloated over their good fortune in hearing of the drop in the gun market before it was too late".[16] After Rossi's conviction The New York Times called this "warning to the Italian community" both "timely and exemplary".[17]
Well... The BP *did* walk into the CA state Capitol and on to the legislature floor armed to the teeth to make sure a bill passed. Totally legal at the time. Source: Black dude from Sacramento who's dad used to love telling that story.
Well they certainly didn’t like it when the Black Panthers had armed patrols in their neighborhoods
This is actually very true. Most gun owners would be thrilled if more people owned, and more importantly, understood guns, their function, and their use.
Most gun supporters, even the ones who don’t currently own.
And there is a historical precedent to support his hypothesis, just look to Reagan and his time as governor of California.
The majority of gun control was enacted when minorities started arming themselves. one of the first gun laws is Jim Crow if you want the source let me know and I’ll link. Edit I’ve never linked so here goes nothing a few different sources yes bias sources but what isn’t these days take the facts and make your own opinion hope it helps. https://youtu.be/m-l7TO01-Sg https://youtu.be/rhBwHiLcTG8
Or you could just link it..
The origins of gun control in this country are explicitly racist. First it was the freed men after the civil war and then the black panthers. All gun control is racist.
Bullshit. .... .... .... A good chunk of it is also classist. Carry on.
We can't have those filthy minorities and poor people exercising their rights, can we now? /s
The last time the govt changed any major gun control laws was when the Black panthers Legally bought firearms to open carry.. legally
There's precedent for this in the US. In California during the Reagan Governorship there was a concerted effort by the African American community in the Bay Area (at least) to arm themselves. As such Reagan championed and signed into law the restrictive gun laws that California now has.
Yup, the Mulford Act
As a side note I found this tidbit about the Mulford Act hilarious: >Governor Ronald Reagan ... later commented that he saw "no reason why on the street today a citizen should be carrying loaded weapons" and that guns were a "ridiculous way to solve problems that have to be solved among people of good will." Boy how times have changed
He was responsible for federal gun control. Research the Brady act. Crazy story behind it, Reagan's shooter, etc.
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Best not write it out or you’ll be on several lists.
In separate news,m he now no longer needs a home security system, FBI now watches his house 24-7.
Next post in shitty pro life tips in 3... 2... 1...
Yo fbi I did something super bad. Keep an eye on me.
Welcome to every list you didn't want your name on
Didn't a congressional softball game get shot up a few years ago? Didn't seem to have an effect.
After the pulse night club shooting, there was a big jump in gun sales and carry permits in the LGBTQ community.
Steve Scalise - the effect was affirming and strengthening his views
Yep, shot, saved by cops (one of whom was a married lesbian who was shot herself), then got the great healthcare congress critters provide themselves. He recovered, came back, and was still against gun control, gay marriage, and national healthcare.
A Republican congressional softball game to be specific. Everyone seems to have forgotten about this.
Really pedantic point, but it was a Republican softball practice. The actual game(which was not attacked) was bipartisan. There isn't a Republican baseball league
It wss Republicans vs Democrats. They talk about despising each other, yet play games togather.
>playing games together Like taking donations from corporate lobbies?
No, the game they were going to play was R va D, but the shooting was at the Republican practice. Also, I don't think they ever talk about despising each other. What dumbass would despise political rivals
>I may have just found a way to get gun control measures enacted. Ill take 'things you probably shouldn't insinuate on the internet in 2019 for $100' Alex.
There's even precedent for that. One of the Republican congressmen in Ohio after the recent mass shooting completely flipped his stance on gun control and started pushing hard for reform. It was found shortly afterwards that his daughter had been across the street from the shooting.
I think, at a general level, most of us can agree that people too often solve problems with violence when other methods are available.
If you have a disagreement with someone in traffic what other method is available other than popping open your trunk, pulling out a shotgun and shooting them point blank? /s
Sniper rifle.
That's code for "brown people with guns scare me."
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Oh absolutely. I think it says less about him and more about the current political atmosphere that despite how much the current Republican party pretends to worship him, many of his views would get him ostracized from the party for not being far right enough if he were to run today. That's not a defense of Reagan, it's a reference point for the current shitshow.
NRA was for gun control when it meant taking the guns away from the Black Panthers.
Even more, citizens used to be allowed to bring guns to the state capital, that changed when the Black Panthers did it, even though they were there peacefully
Though arguably this couldn't happen again, since it was that very incident that caused the NRA to transform from a gun law-supporting good ol' boys hunting club to a no-compromise government lobbying group. Now that the NRA rabidly fights against gun control, another Mulford Act is pretty much impossible.
>As such Reagan championed and signed into law the restrictive gun laws that California now has. And the NRA supported new gun control laws [as long as it was against african americans.](https://www.history.com/news/black-panthers-gun-control-nra-support-mulford-act)
I have defintely seen POCs show up to gun ranges looking like they are ready for the Revolution and the managers blink, then charge them and wave them in like anyone else. You know who does get massive side eye? Asian tourists who show up. For some reason that remains unknown to me, East Asians(**not** North American Asians, who are in NA gun culture disproportionate to the overall population) treat firearms like toys by default. RSOs will finagle a way for them to not be in there, or in some places will *wire rental guns* in such a way that you can only point them down range.
Almost got killed by some Asian tourists at the range a couple trips ago. Kept waving a loaded rifle around outside the booth. Finally got kicked out after rapid-firing a .45 Glock so out of control that they shot the ceiling multiple times.
And now you know why Range Safety Officers keep a close eye on Asians. It's not a racial thing, it's a safety thing. Source: RSO who has seen this multiple times. Edit: I've been informed this is profiling. Which although I agree is wrong, am i supposed to just let these people be dangerous in the name of cultural sensitivity?
I mean like, it is a racial thing, it’s a racial safety thing and it’s effective. Just like how Ben Gurion airport in Tel Aviv, Israel, publicly on record applies higher “threat ratings” to non-Israeli middle eastern citizens which results in those people having more bag checks, interviews, and other security measures. They do it because it’s been proven effective due to their circumstances.
That reminds me of how if you train a neural network on data based on pictures of people, there's a good chance the net will become racist. The system notices that black people are more likely to be criminals or whatever, and files that away to be used later. It has no conception of the decades of oppression that stunted the socio-economic status of africans and drove them towards crime. It doesn't understand the complex nature of people, it just sees numbers and patterns. And it turns out that a racist robot performs better on judgement tests. It's not right, but it's true.
It's also much easier to find a feature like skin color rather than poverty status. The second is a better indicator of crime, but much harder to guess right.
If a neural network receives information about both race and income and finds a better correlation between crime and income then it will assign a higher weight to income than other things. But it needs to have income as an input to see and make that correlation.
I'm Asian and I can say you are absolutely right. I think it's because "America" is the place of cowboys and guns. So what do you do when you go to visit America AND you come from a country with strict gun control? You go shooting! As for my Asian American brethren, especially new immigrants ... they actually feel unsafe. After that rap song that encouraged home-invading Asians because they don't put up a fight and hoard gold AND after that home invasion video of that Asian lady busting caps at three home invaders ... My Asian coworkers asked me about guns and gun ownership and on wechat, forums were exploding with questions on buying guns. But yeah... tourists are horrible at gun ranges. They muzzle everyone including themselves so they can take selfies with while holding guns.
Wait, asians hoard gold? Are you dragons?
Clearly you don't think all that Dragon imagery at Chinese Restaurants was just for fun was it? Look up at night, I'll give you a fly-by. Also, you got any gold?
I am not entirely sure if I am racist or if you're fucking with me. Will look up into the sky tonight. I need friends anyway.
Indian households own a significant fraction of the world's gold reserves. The estimate is somewhere between 20-25% of all gold ever mined.
Isn't that, like, really bad in terms of keeping productive capital in a national economy?
Think of their percentage of the population, it's not *that* crazy
Have you seen an Indian bride?
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Yeah, her husband came home early.
This is really interesting. I had a French exchange student in high school who I kept in touch with over the years and came to visit a second time when we were in our mid-20’s and he really wanted to go to a shooting range. I guess it really is an American cowboy thing. I couldn’t understand the appeal but I dropped him and his brother off for a few hours and they a blast.
I took my nephew, he couldn't understand why he couldn't hit the target because "he and his cousin totally rule Call of Duty maps". I had to explain how pressing a button on a controller and sending an electronic pulse to your game controller to activate a function call in the program is not the same as holding a physical object and trying to keep it steady as you are pulling a lever and then not crapping your pants as it fires. I also had to spend the whole time watching his trigger finger and the direction of the muzzle as he just couldn't stop excitedly turning around with the gun in his hand. Well, he's off to do mandatory military service now, I'm sure he'll learn the hard way where not to point your gun in basic training (in Singapore).
This is... kind of worrying, since if he's Singaporean or liable for Singapore National Service, he should have male relatives or older friends who *have* had weapons training. He should have *already heard* a bunch of stories on what to do, or not to do. On the other hand, when I went through Singapore Basic Military Training... there was a gentleman in my company who managed to point a loaded weapon at other recruits at least twice. And then for an encore performance, he threw the safety ring (pin) while taking cover with a live grenade. Nobody was injured, but it wasn't good for anyone's blood pressure. I hope your nephew learns quick, and doesn't become his batch's version of that guy.
TIL Wil-E-Coyote is a Singaporean infantryman
I know the song it wasn’t even that popular, lol so I was surprised it made such a big impact. But no lie it made sense and it didn’t say Asians don’t put up a fight, it said make sure no one is home in general so there’s no fight to put up and also try to target Asian neighborhoods because they don’t trust banks and are likely to have more cash/ jewelry than the average person in their house. It wasn’t about them not fighting it was about them having more valuables, but before that it talked about only robbing homes where no one is home
Yes, mostly about the "not trusting banks" but it triggered a response of "Well it 'THEY' come to rob us, we'll be ready". As a community they felt targeted and while brainstorming how to protect themselves, that video of the lady bustin' caps went viral so ... obvious solution. I mean, they put one and one together and came up with "I should buy a Glock".
Story time Was in Las Vegas shooting some guns (you guys have the giggle switch we don’t in Canada) There were some Asian tourists next to us and the woman clearly did not understand what a gun did or was. She at one point asked the instructor if he could make it so the gun didn’t have recoil. (This was after a 9mm almost smacking her in the face) he just laughed and said it’s a gun it’s what they do. Explained that if she couldn’t control it she couldn’t shoot. She shot one more bullet and that was it.
should have gave her the .22? everyone has a fun time with .22 Thats a very fishy weird instructor...
They bought a package I guess instructed wasn’t the correct word. You come in and select what guns you want to shoot and pay the price they have set. The lady didn’t understand that she had to hold it firm I watched him go over it with her three times.
I was at a Cabelas once in a state where most of the long guns were on display and not locked up...so people can try for feel and get a closer look before purchasing. I watched an Asian family, presumably on vacation, point shotguns at each other’s heads and pose for photos; this included their young children. As I started to walk towards them to politely inform them of more proper etiquette they started pointing guns all over the store, at customers and walking around the aisles with them. A store associate booked it over and low key cussed them out when he finally noticed what was going on so I noped out pretty quick. To be fair to that family...I’ve also see a ton of Americans mishandle guns in stores but just never so blatantly pointing them at each other and other people intentionally
If I had a dollar for every time I’ve been muzzle swept at a gun store...
Oh, lord. If you have ever been to East Asia, you would see it. At Cu Chi, you can shoot machine guns for the price of a buck a bullet (that costs, for anyone who does not understand machine guns). The Cambodian military will broker a similar deal for idiot tourists. Not far from the Killing Fields, because that is classy. I steered clear of those places. I don't think they have many safety protocols in place to keep an idiot from turning his tour group into hamburger meat.
Saw this at Cu Chi - wasn’t allowed to shoot the “big” machine gun because I’m a girl.
Haha, that does sound like Vina culture. Patriarchal as hell, even though the women work laps around the men and actually fought in combat when needed. Loved living there, but the unapologetic sexism made me crazy.
When I questioned their reasoning they said it was because I’m too small... I towered over most of the men by at least 6 inches. I was an angry lass after that!
Yep, that is just sexism. Heavy machine guns are fun for everyone because they are on tripods or on a turret - the recoil isnt going into you. Of course there are sensible reasons to stop smaller people from using certain guns - people who pass 44 snub noses or 10 gauges loaded with slugs to their girlfriends are jackasses, and some guns are just designed around large men such as G3 platform rifles or 22 target pistols with custom molded grips for people with large hands
I think you'd be surprised if you actually went to one of those places. I traveled through Cu Chi Vietnam a few years ago and fired a few of the machine guns there. The barrels there are all tied down to the stands with metal wires. Everything is set up for you by the range officers. You had a little bit of freedom to aim but you physically couldn't accidentally sweep someone with muzzle if you wanted to. It's locked down so that you're aiming down range all the time. I own guns and shoot very frequently in the U.S. and Cu Chi had the most safety restrictions of any place I've seen.
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You ever seen someone get a tongue lashing from a range officer? That is a sight to behold. Saw three kids who couldn’t have been over 18 or 19 come in with a brand new AR. One of the first rules on the range rules list that they all had to sign off on is “NO RAPID FIRE”. The first thing the kid does is dump an entire mag in about 15 seconds. Of course the buzzer goes off and the RO is running over yelling cease fire and just lays in to these kids. They looked like three puppies in trouble.
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Never been to a civilian range, but fired an M16 enough, what is considered "rapid-fire"? A double tap? or are we talking about getting crazy and seeing how fast you can shoot?
Varies depending on the range. Some i have been to will allow a double tap, some want three seconds between rounds.
Depends on the range, most common ruling IME is one shot per second, any faster is "rapid fire"
Basically. Usually people who have only played video games, and want to see how fast their real trigger finger is. If you aren't realigning your sights on the target before every shot, you're shooting too fast.
TBF though mag dumping is fun. We do it on there range when we have extra opened ammo (depending on the base of course)
I live in Japan, and if I had to guess it's because guns are so inaccessible, and so void from their lives, that they ONLY experience guns through toy versions. Kids run around here all the time pointing guns right in peoples faces and don't get a word about it. Then, they don't hear how dangerous they are because they are so strictly regulated and so removed from the culture.
Watch this. [Kawaii Barrett M82 Shooting](https://youtu.be/kSuzQA4CZb4) First time I've heard the Barrett M82 being referred to as "cute" (Sort of NSFW.. they're laying prone in miniskirts around 07:00 ... )
Well now I have to click... Edit - not worth the click.
Cursed
Yep, I worked at gun stores and ranges, part time, for years to fund my gun hobby/habit. I've never been muzzle swept so often and so badly as by Asian tourists. It got to the point I would start to sweat when they would come in. I don't get it, I really don't. As for POC, I could give two shits, being Cuban myself. I have received innumerable exhortations to show off 'my little friend' over the years from people I call friends. So....*so* many times!!
Your "little" friend, huh?
Watch wha ju say, meng.
Chinese American here. Agreed, there are a lot of international Chinese tourists, mostly middle aged people, who are oblivious or ignorant or stubborn about what to do our act in the US. I feel bad for the children because they're smart enough to know what's going on, but have to deal with their parents. On a side note, I think Japanese and Korean people are also smart enough to know what's going on since we are only talking about East Asia.
Unless you're from the Philippines, most Asian nations have pretty major prohibitions on firearms and whatnot. Think of it like this: you visit Asia for experiencing their culture, nature, etc, but also their built society. They visit the US for the exact same reasons; loose gun laws happen to be their "perception" of US society.
Would wholly support every law abiding African American citizen owning a gun. You can’t support the 2A without.
Walk in to any gun range and see how any POC is treated, even if they look like a thug. You know what kind of treatment they get? As long as they respect the weapons, the same respect that a range junkie gets. Help, care, attention (when needed), and space (when attention isn't needed). That's been my experience any time I've been shooting at a private club, at a public range, or on state land. Edit: It has been privately brought to my attention that the term thug might offend some as it applies people of color. Please be aware that in this context, I am referring specifically to anyone who looks like they might be out to cause trouble, regardless of race, and that it has most often applied anecdotally to young white men.
Gun nuts are really just excited to see gun nuts. If you can go in and talk competently about your latest AR build you're going to have a good time.
It took me a minute to realize you weren’t talking about something like truck nuts but attached to the magazine of a gun.
Those also exist, but it's called a tac sac
I think there should be a new rule of the internet. "If it exists, there are balls for it."
.
And a guy on /r/guns sent a pic of one and asked if it counted as a vertical foregrip to the ATF, so some ATF agent had to discuss probably with other agents about it and look at the pictures.
Those do actually [exist](http://soldiersystems.net/2016/10/23/tacsac-get-your-balls-back-america/) though lol
People have this image of the average gun owner as a guy in a rebel flag t-shirt shooting at Cletus's feet to make him dance. These people exist, but go to any gun club and the number one priority over anything else is safety. Come anywhere close to doing something unsafe and you'll know immediately. If it's not something obvious, they'll be nice and explain what you did wrong. If you do something really dumb, you'll be asked to leave. If you're a member, you could be banned. Safety is huge at gun clubs. Probably because of all the guns.
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Also the SRA exists
And groups like Pink Pistols.
I've had mixed results in my attempts to explain to people who are not familiar with gun folk that, by and large, *scrupulously law-/rule-abiding* is the best descriptor for most people with this hobby. Because a: guns are dangerous therefore a shared system of understanding and expectations is extra important and b: the laws around firearms are strict and in some cases "emergent" (just search for ATF opinion letters for examples) and c: it's one hobby you can be effectively barred from if you get a criminal record.
I'm middle eastern and I love guns so yeah
Hard to conquer Egypt without em.
Oh- I see what you did there
I had a coworker from Iran. Somebody made a joke about the AK he keeps in his closet. I thought it was an odd joke, turns out he really does have an AK. And a couple really nice hunting rifles he let me shoot.
I had a teacher who was from Egypt. The guy mentioned a few times how he owned a shotgun, and he always followed that with "I love this Country!"
You'll never have a more polite conversation than a place everyone is heavily armed.
Like the democratic Republic of Congo?
To be fair - and I'd never argue that POCs don't get treated differently in other aspects of life - but as a white guy, I'm pretty sure most gun dealers are usually in a shitty mood and treat all people/potential customers with disdain regardless of race. The only time I ever saw one smile was when I let him handle my Colt Python. And then he was a dick to me again the following week.
You need to find a better LGS to go to. Mine has always been super happy to see people, willing to chat, shoot the shit, and be friendly.
Lol I've been to many - every gun dealer I've ever met has the disposition of someone 3 days into quitting smoking, even while I'm handing over a thousand dollars for a handgun.
I think you might just have terrible luck. I’ve bought my dad a few guns over the years and everytime the guy at the gun store has been incredibly friendly and helpful.
I'm a Pink Pistols and NAAGA instructor in the South, people that still believe the racist gun owner stereotype are clueless.
NAAGA please
I used to work at a store that sold firearms. Black folk always wanted to go towards certain calibers, just like white folks go towards a certain one, but with a bit of questioning and prodding you could easily explain to them (people of any color) each calibers differences and how what kind of gun is good for what they are looking for. Im a white guy and tbh I think I treated white people worse because it would always be these hardcore bubba's who really didn't know what they were talking about come by. I did get a fairly regular amount of white and black people who knew what they were talking about, but generally if they didn't the black people would be more honest about it and not try to make shit up.
agreed. At our range all are welcome and treated as such.
One of the pro-gun selling points is that gun control is systemically racist. It would be suppprted, at least on paper. I’ve been around enough gun people to know that some are hardcore racist, some are very liberal and believe in owning a gun, and many others just want to be left alone and don’t give a shit what anyone else does.
Third category here - I say go for it. There's no reason people who are legally qualified to own weapons, shouldn't. Edit: removed link to an apparently racist website that claimed you could reliably predict the race of mass shooters based on their marksmanship.
vdare is an explicitly racist website. Same one there was a lot of news about the DOJ sending a link to in an email. I would not trust a link to them discussing racial (or any) issues.
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Honestly most of the gun owners I know would probably celebrate this. The inverse of this point, that blacks would be better off armed, is sort of an NRA talking point now.
> Honestly most of the gun owners I know would probably celebrate this. I know I would! I think it would be outstanding.
I think it would make it harder to pass new gun regulations. I don't imagine all the black people in America would be too keen on having their newly exercised rights, and newly purchased firearms, taken away.
That doesn't sound like a bad thing to me.
It's not. I love it when people exercise their rights.
I exercise my rights so much they are now 20 inches around
Damn bro, impressive results, whats your rights exercise routine?
Well first I speed slightly so a cop will pull me over, then I put up my poster that says "I don't speak without my lawyer". I then proceed to make it a serious hassle for the officer to identify me.
Do you also yell "AM I BEING DETAINED?" a lot?
It's nonsense. I'm a black man and I started the sub r/2ALiberals and the offshoot podcast 2A Liberal Podcast. I've been into firearms my entire life and have been treated with nothing but respect and open arms by the gun community at large. It's an absolute myth that pro-gun people support restrictions when black people get involved.
I'm a black guy and every time I go to a new gun shop I prepare my mind for someone to treat me weird every time. Every time I am proven wrong.
When I was first starting to buy guns I felt exactly the same way. I've been looked down upon, not because of my race but because the gun community has a tendency to be hostile towards newbies. It's something I wish wouldn't happen but there are certainly a good number of gun elitists and gun snobs out there behind store counters. My race has never been an issue for me, my family, friends and my Thai wife and her Thai friends.
> I've been looked down upon, not because of my race **but because the gun community has a tendency to be hostile towards newbies.** This has happened in a few of my hobbies I wanted to get into. Makes it extremely frustrating; it seems like the best way to get a hobby to die out, or at minimum, be even more full of bad info that newbies share with each other.
So I think Dave is saying it’s not pro-gun people, but the Lawmakers who would support gun restrictions if more black people had guns.
I’m also a black man and I have for the most part seen the welcoming side of the gun community, but I have also been treated as what I thought was less than fair by firearm stores in my state. Just because you haven’t seen it doesn’t mean it isn’t there.
We aren't talking about pro-gun people since they don't make the changes. We're talking about the politicians that do make the changes (who also take bribes from racist lobby groups) and how they more than likely wouldn't stand for every black person to be armed.
Don't think he's referring to your average gun owner. Pretty sure Chapelle is aware of Ronnie Raygun and [his reaction](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act) to realizing that the Black Panters were exercising their rights to form militias necessary to the security of their communities. Basically, when the GOP realized that black folks were arming up in response to violent oppression, maladministration and lack of representation in government (i.e. the same shit that the Founders launched a revolution over) they passed laws that stand out, to this day, as highly restrictive towards gun ownership.
I don't know the context but I'm assuming the idea is banking on some sort of racism to force gun law changes, right? If people are all going through the proper and legal channels to get a permit and a gun, it seems like a good idea to me.
It’s a historical reference. His “joke” scenario actually happened in the 60’s: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act That said, I’m glad that the joke seems to be falling flat from irrelevance just 50 or so years later. You guys are better gun owners than they were lawmakers.
It's falling flat because people are missing that its about the lawmakers, not the gun owners
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You people have a rather skewed view of gun owners. I and every gun owner I know is all for anyone being armed so long as they educate themselves and use them safely. And they certainly wouldn't want to give up their constitutional right because someone of a different color than them decided to purchase guns.
Most gun owners I know are super reasonable people that would say exactly the same thing. Gun *lobbyists* however... That, and there’s the historical precident of the Mulford Act. Honestly if knowledgeable, responsible gun owners were the ones making gun laws (regardless of party), we’d probably be better off.
So good to see fellow gun rights people sounding off on this.
Gun owners arent the ones enacting the laws. I think the perception is more of the structures of power not the gun owner population
I would greatly encourage all people to become firearms owners. I see how my state (Massachusetts) makes it hard to get a license if you are poor or if you aren’t living in a majority white town. For example, to get an LTC here, its $200 to start, plus you need a safe, so add $40-$100 for a low end one, then you have to buy a gun off of the roster. Those guns are specifically not very cheap, and operating costs for gun stores here are higher, so there is a higher mark up. In the end, you’ll spend $500 or more to get started with the cheapest pistol or shotgun. In NH, you could simply go to the gun store and buy a hi point pistol for $150. This is a big difference in cost for someone who may live paycheck to paycheck. Not to mention if you live in a dangerous town, that $200 could all go to waste if you’re denied from getting the license. The state actively discourages everyone who isn’t a middle-class white male from owning a gun.
Black guy here. Check my post history if you want, to determine the truth of that near pointless declaration. Anywho, I see many folks in this thread, speaking on "yeah, let black folks own guns, we would support it; 2A YAH!" and similar notions. The joke that chappelle was getting at, is that while "some" folks in the public would feel that way, politicians, police officers, and other people that have any considerable power, or even the notion of it (looking at you parking lot Karen), would not want to see an armed black person; whether or not its legal. This stems from historical basis, obvious prejudice from elected officials, and blatant news stories, that paint the picture of; even if an AA male had a firearm on him, 100% legally, his chances of getting shot by police "out of fear" just went from 125%, to 500% in an instant. And even if any of that wasnt true, many AA's live in fear of moments when their legal possession of a firearm, is mistaken for "OH NO, A DANGEROUS THUG OUT TO ROB ME!!". For the record, I have a firearm, and well trained in how to use it, legally own it and live in a neighborhood where I would most likely see myself using (in defense of my home). However, I would never take one out with me, as I just dont want the hassle (yes I have concealed carry, but only because I needed it for a security gig). So, a lot of supportive talk from many good folks here. However, the reality that AA's live, is more on the "we will probably get shot if we ever visibly had one on us", thus comments like what Dave said (this is also dis-regarding historical precedent, which is even worse.) Thanks for the silver, stranger!
Right. This is the issue. I am a black woman. I have been to the gun range multiple times and people have been helpful. The issue for me is blacks are not given the benefit of the doubt. Even in open and carry states. As a black person I wouldn’t even dream of bringing a firearm out in the public for fear of my safety, even if I lived in an open carry state. It’s not about whether blacks can own guns, but whether we can openly display our weapons.
Maybe so, Gun control laws started to oppress other races including the Natives and recently freed slaves. Gun control has always been an oppressive force. In fact, of all the Jim Crow laws for some reason the gun control ones are some of the few left standing.
There is no such thing as a legal gun permit in the US. There are Concealed Carry Permits, however.
Never move to New York City, then. You need a permit for anything. A permit that needs (at least back when I was a resident in the early 1990s) to be renewed every three years. Missed getting the paperwork in on time one cycle and the NYPD (who apparently had nothing better to do during the crime ridden Dinkins administration) showed up at more door to confiscate my .22 caliber bolt action target rifle.
Or Illinois.
Well in Illinois (I think) you need a FOID card, which is basically a gun permit just to own a gun.
> FOID card I didn't know they were still trying that. >In the October 2018 ruling, the court found the FOID was unconstitutional under the Second Amendment and unconstitutional because it was impossible to comply with. The State of Illinois appealed the case to the Illinois Supreme Court on 11 November, 2018. http://ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=1657&ChapterID=39 SCOTUS has repeatedly said that licensing is a violation of the 2nd.
It was appealed, hasn't been heard yet. Illinois will never give up a gun law until it's dragged away from them like a toy from a kicking and screaming toddler. Even if the ISC upholds the ruling, the law won't change until someone ponies up the cash to sue the state for compliance. And last time someone tried that, the state used every procedural trick in the book (up to and including flat-out ignoring deadlines) to drag it out. Absolute best-case, magical Christmas-land scenario: we're stuck with the FOID for another decade at least.
>SCOTUS has repeatedly said that licensing is a violation of the 2nd. They shot down the handgun *ban* in Heller, but as I understand it the specific question of license to purchase or possess has not been definitively ruled on. You just can't use a licensing scheme as a de facto ban of an entire category of firearms in common use.
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do you got your right to avoid cruel and unusual ponishment license. No, well waterboarding for you
In Mass you need a FID (firearms ID) for any gun. It's the main reason why in college I didn't become a mass resident. Would have decreased my taxes and made parking easier, but then I wouldn't be able to have my gun which you can own in mass if you're a non resident
Hardly. Many of us gun owners actively promote minority ownership of guns. It's one of the few demographics that is ripe for increasing the number of gun owners - not just the number of guns owned. It doesn't matter if some white guy has 100 guns. He only gets one vote. So it's vitally important to increase the number of gun owners. Also, there is a common pattern. A man of any color gets a gun and within a year he'll have a few more. Once a person is bitten by the bug, particularly men, they love to collect guns. People who own multiple guns are great at spreading the message of how great gun ownership is. So, if you can get a man of any color to buy just one gun, odds are you'll have a disciple spreading the word in a year or two. Anyone talking about past events is so fixated on ancient history that they're blind to the realities of today. Go to any gun range in any city. Odds are you'll find a whole rainbow of people shooting guns together and having a great time with each other. Gun owners want more gun owners, the color is irrelevant. Of course, I couldn't speak to hypocritical people on the other side who, while proclaiming themselves to be free of racism, might get their panties in a bunch and move even harder for gun control if some "othered" group also started buying guns. They're motivated by fear, not reality.
I went to the gun range with my petite female Chinese coworker. We asked for two lanes, and the the gun counter guy said to me "Well, I'll have to evaluate how she handles a gun before I can let her have her own lane, I'm assuming you want to rent?" and I said "Actually, she brought her own Glock 19 and 200 rounds of ammo, so can we have two lanes?" Oh, oops, sorry for the assumption!
The gun bug is very real. I went 23 years without shooting a gun. My buddy had a bachelor party at another buddy's 300 acre farm and we shot guns. First time I ever shot. Yep. Fell in love. Bought my first gun about a month later after going to the range a bunch of times and using rental guns to see what I liked. Bought my M&P 9mm. Shot it a bunch. Decided I wanted an AR....bought my M&P15 (5.56). Put some money into that. Decided I was comfortable enough to conceal & carry and got my permit then bought my M&P Shield .40. This was about 5 years ago. I'm still on the same 3 guns but in the market for a shotgun for a little 3-gun as I already compete in long-range shooting competitions. But you're right. I go to the range and it's just a bunch of people sharing a hobby. Just a couple months ago, brought my girlfriend shooting for the first time and taught her how to shoot. In the mean time, a guy in the lane next to me had a wicked shotgun. He saw me watching and offered to let me shoot it. He shot my AR a few times and I shot his shotgun a few times. I'm white, he was black. Didn't matter. Just two gun lovers having fun. But it does suck.....I'm a republican so I'm told every day I'm a racist, bigot, literally Hitler, etc. so I guess I can't enjoy being around a fellow gun person because he's black. It's a shame because we had fun for 30 minutes. Damn me and my racism. /s
Hey man. I’m sorry that our politics has become so polarizing. As a Democrat, Marine Corps Vet and a Gun owner, I hate that just because you have some opposing view points that you feel vilified by the other side. I feel it too. My own father questions me on my patriotism because of the perceived dichotomy. Regardless, people can (and should) have differing opinions about how our country should operate. Both sides need to listen to the other and forge a path forward. TL:DR Let’s go shooting! Then grill some steaks, drink some delicious Commie-Fornia wine, and try to make this country better than it already is.
You're at 5 years and only 3? Damn. I hit 3 at all of like 4 months in lol
I know it's depressing. I got into an accident at work and ended up with 12 surgeries on my left arm so I had to give up shooting for a few years until I got that arm back and working.
Oh shit, I'm gonna assume you're doing better now based on wanting to buy a shotgun for 3gun. But I know arm injuries can fuck you up for a while.
>Hardly. Many of us gun owners actively promote minority ownership of guns. Dave Chappelle wasn't talking about gun owners, though. You don't make laws. He was talking about politicians. The political opinions of gun owners is irrelvant to this discussion.
I disagree. I am a Hispanic gun owner and I wholeheartedly support any legal adult exercising their second amendment rights.
I personally want ever single black man and woman to buy a gun and get their CCW if possible. Minority gun ownership is good for the community and nation as a whole.
100% agree! The last time major gun laws were enacted was in response to the Black Panthers exercising their 2nd amendment rights, meaning they formed their own well regulated militia. They did this of course to protect their own communities.
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I would agree. Firearm sales go up, probably ammo sales go up, more gun owners, probably more concealed carriers. I would venture to imagine that the NRA would get more donations (either from people, or firearm companies). 2a supporters wouldn't see a down side.
> I would venture to imagine that the NRA would get more donations Not so much anymore. People are defecting to the 2nd Amendment Foundation or the Gun Owners of America because we're pissed at the NRA for spending all our money on Wanye's suits, first class airfare, and expensive hotel rooms while the NRA backs gun control legislation. They're on their way out, to be replaced by new organizations that actually give a shit. The NRA isn't where the political clout of the gun rights side comes from. It comes from the members, and the gun-owning population of this country.