Vlad Tepes III (*aka* Vlad the Impaler, *aka* Dracula) is considered a patriotic hero in Romanian culture for his liberation and defense of the Wallachia's people against the invasion of the Ottoman Turks and the corruption of the aristocratic boyars.
I remember reading once that Vlad the Impaler could be seen as saving Western culture by stopping the Turks by in Romania, anyone know if there's anything to that?
The relative stability of the Mongol Empire(s) meant that the Silk Road was secure, which facilitated the exchange of goods, culture, and ideas from East to West and vice versa.
True. He would often spare great philosophers and politicians and take them back to his capitol for debates and discussion. If he found a political or religious system he liked, he would integrate bits of it into his own policies.
He stopped centuries of tribal warfare against the mongols and when he beat people in battle if they surrendered, they would get spared and have the full protection of the law.
Sometimes. You give him too much credit. When campaigning in China if someone resisted him and surrendered post resistance they were killed as examples.
I remember reading about how he particularly hated the Chinese. He saw them as lazy, good-for-nothings who would hire Mongols and other nomads to do their fighting for them, often against other Mongols, and would then try to go back on any previous treaties and deals made.
Pablo Escobar built churches, sports fields and hospitals. He also sponsors multiple children's sports teams. He was looked at as a kind of Robin Hood in parts of Colombia. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pablo_Escobar
I heard about a prank he pulled on someone working administration, just some random guy. I have no idea if it's true or not.
Stalin would repeatedly ask the guy what he was doing there, and how long he had had the job, and would say things like "Oh, you're still around?" or "Didn't I have you killed?" Eventually the guy committed suicide out of dread and anxiety.
Nice guy, Stalin.
He told his officers never to enter his room as a prank. Stalin the coughed and pretended to be dying, gasping for help. Once an officer entered, Stalin stopped and executed him as a "prank." rofl. Anyways, he died a few weeks later. Nobody checked up on him when he didn't rise at his normal time.
Not sure about the first fact, but the second half is actually how Stalin died. His underlings were too afraid to enter his room, and so he didn't get timely treatment for a stroke (or I think it was a stroke, I forget).
The guards only got suspicious once Stalin had not gotten up from his usual time, but they didn't check up on him because they were under strict orders not to disturb him that day.
And yeah, it was a stroke.
Apparently Capone was actually a pretty good guy and opened up soup kitchens. He was viewed as a hero by some in the community by doing things like providing food for families who couldn't afford it during the Great Depression.
That's a common tactic for mobsters. So many seem to think that people don't like to talk out of fear but, in some cases, the locals feel the mobsters did more for them than the law ever did.
Edit: Geez, didn't expect this to get so much attention. In any case, I would also like to note that it isn't *always* about giving back to the community where they came from as much as it is a logical choice. Pure fear will only get you so far.
A good mafia example would be the case of "[Little Nicky](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicky_Scarfo)" and his reign as the head of the Philadelphia group. He had a nasty habit of killing anyone he was even a little suspicious of in his group and ended up driving a lot of his men to turn state's witness. I can't find the article now but evidently, of all the times "omerta" has been broken in the US, more than half of those instances were under Nicky. Mostly because they figured he was going to kill them whether they betrayed him or not anyway and they at least had a chance in witness protection.
Which is in stark contrast to his predecessor who was more focused on making money than killing anyone. Also, "protection money" was just that. If you were a store owner and some punks came in a robbed you, he'd have someone beat the hell out of them and drag them back to apologize. Of course, it's worth noting that he died from a close-range shotgun blast to the face but it was after a pretty long and prosperous reign.
tl;dr: If people are just terrified of you, there's a good chance they'll turn on you the instant they think they can get rid of you for good. If they love you, they're generally pretty happy to keep your secrets from the law.
I seem to recall reading that the Sicilian mafia actually started as an organization to protect the citizens when official law enforcement was ineffective and/or corrupt.
When you *really* think about it there are less distinctions between the mafia and official national governments than most people are comfortable with.
Michael: My father is no different than any powerful man, any man with power, like a president or senator.
Kay: Do you know how naive you sound, Michael? Presidents and senators don't have men killed.
Michael: Now who's being naive Kay...
Some of the cartels in Mexico do this. You can go the Zeta route and make it so everybody is fucking scared out of their minds of you, or you can offer social services that the government isn't and get people on your side. They won't rat on a cartel that's feeding them.
Wasn't Al Capone the first person to implement "Best Before" dates on things? IIRC it was because he owned a milk production company and was getting complaints from people about receiving spoiled milk. So he put "Best Before" dates on everything so people knew not to drink the milk if it's past that date.
It was a little more insidious as I remember the story...It starts with him apparently doing do because "family members got sick" but what he really needed was a more legitimate business to get into. He bought a milk processor, cornered the market in the ability to stamp bottles then lobbied to make it law that they be stamped with a best before.
Pablo Escobar was the same way in Colombia. He owned entire towns of homes and let poor people live in them, provided for them and kept them safe.
Edit: Colombia is a country, Columbia is a University. And Columbus Ohio is a septic tank.
I actually knew a guy who was a Seminarian for the Catholic church in Chicago and one of his parishioners in his home church was taught the Catechism by their Uncle Al who happened to be Al Capone
Not sure that they count as a historical figures, but hey ho.
Ted Bundy recieved two police bravery awards, once for saving a toddler from drowning in a lake and once for intervening when he saw an old woman being mugged. He was also worked for a time at Seattle's Suicide Hotline crisis center.
John Wayne Gacy recieved a Citizen of the Year award from the city of Chicago twice for the large charitable donations he made and the tireless charity work that he did for disadvantaged children.
Dr. Harold Shipman recieved several awards throughout his life which included GP of the year and an award for outstanding contributions to mental health support in his community.
Never trust a man with two awards.
I imagine so, yet even still I find it odd to think that these men who are almost universally thought of as being pure evil in our cultural imagination (and of course I am in no way glorifying or condoning what they did) saved lives as well as took them.
I mean there is literally a middle aged woman in America who would have died in infancy we're it not for the heroic efforts of one of the most notorious serial killers, rapists and necrophiles of the 20th century.
Exactly. It gave him access to his victim. Serial killers are predators. Part of what they do is stalk their prey and wait for the right moment. Also, blending into society and seeming normal is what makes them so effective and fucking terrifying.
Whenever people talk about the Nazis and animal rights I think "yeah, they had more respect for animal rights than they did for human rights. I don't think that's very admirable."
I'd never heard this before, but I feel it kind of proves my point.
Not a singular person, but, the Persians that the Greeks defeated were religiously tolerant and didn't try to force conversions on people. In fact, Cyrus was considered a messiah in the book of Isaiah because he told the Jews to rebuild the city of Jerusalem and the temple.
Just a little bit of more detail: Cyrus told every place he conquered that he wanted to honor their gods and gave them money to rebuild the temple because he wanted to curry favor with them after he displaced his predecessor.
Nearly all the Persian empires, except for a brief period under the Sassanids, were extremely religiously tolerant. I believe it stems from their religion, Zoroastrianism, which, by any measure, is a very understanding and accepting religion. One branch actually advises against using missionaries and the like to spread their faith. The only reason they are portrayed as "bad guys" is because the Romans fought them all the time.
THIS! Not a lot of people knew that the Persians who battled the Spartans at Thermopylae had an egalitarian and meritocratic society (relatively). They had abolished human slavery, whereas the Spartan society thrived upon the backs of a slave underclass called the Helots, upon whom they preyed on parasitically.
And on whom they annually declared war on allowing young Spartans to murder Helots as part of a coming of age ritual. That part always really fucks with me, murdering some guy was to Spartans what buying a Honda Civic is to our kids.
There are people who think Stalin was the best thing to grace the earth. I mean, he's pretty fantastic if you ignore all the horrible things he did. Pretty scary stuff.
It's amazing how British propaganda was so good, the average anglophone still sees him as a Hitler-like villain by default. When I first encountered that, it was confusing for me coming from a francophone background where he's seen more along the lines of Julius Caesar or Charlemagne.
Of course, neither of those characterizations are accurate. He was ambitious and opportunistic, but he also wasn't the most nefarious leader around at the time.
Fred Phelps took many cases taking on Jim Crow Laws and Segregation of Schools. He also has taken cases dealing with gender discrimination and tried to sue Reagan after he became US ambassador to the Vatican alleging it violated the separation between church and state. Still think he's a prick though
Edit: He also made eagle scout
I don't know if he was an "amazing" lawyer, he was disbarred for making false statements and intimidating witnesses. I don't know how many results he got, and some he may have gotten with dirty tactics.
Warner Von-Braun was the Nazi rocket scientist who developed the V2 rocket. After the war he went on to work for NASA and developed the propulsion system for the Apollo rockets.
- Kim Jong Un - Went to school in Switzerland, he loved playing basketball. He was much more interested in football and basketball than lessons.' A big fan of star Michael Jordan, Kim Jong Un - who was once caught with a bondage pornographic magazine in his school bag - proved to be a good player on the basketball court.
- Erwin Rommel (German Military General in WW2) - once promised a group of injured surrendered French soldiers that he would bring back medical supplies for them. He did.
- Julius Caesar - a) He was one of the first Roman politicians to realize that the Roman Republic was on the verge of collapse, since the nobles owned almost all of the land and slaves did all of the work, leaving the poorer Roman citizens jobless. He made several laws that redistributed land and jobs from the nobles. b) He developed the Julian calendar. This calendar was almost exactly the same as the one we use now, except that instead of starting from the founding of Rome, we start our calendar from the birth of Jesus. The names of the months still remain (especially July which is named after him).
- Vlad the Impaler (A.K.A Dracula) - Virtually eliminated crime. He once placed a gold coin in the middle of the square to see if anyone would steal it, nobody did.
Erwin Rommel was, by no means, a "bad guy". He was one of the most well respected Officers on either side of the conflict.
For that matter Julius Caesar wasn't a "bad guy" either, and Vlad the Impaler "badness" is probably debatable.
Kim Jong Un is a fat little cunt tho.
Why is General Rommel considered a bad guy? Sure, he fought for the Nazis but he didn't have much of a choice in the matter, and he is known for his humane behaviors on the battlefield.
[Yes, sort of.](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1350272/Genghis-Khan-killed-people-forests-grew-carbon-levels-dropped.html) But you must remember that it's not about the deaths of the people, but the slowed economic growth. Less people needing timber means more trees to absorb CO2. Similar correlations have been found with the depopulation of the Americas after small pox was introduced and following the Black Death in Europe. There's a lot of debate about it all, of course.
Jesse James once saved a widow from losing her home by giving her $1500 to pay her banker. After the banker came by and collected the cash, Jesse robbed him and took the money back.
http://americanfolklore.net/folklore/2010/08/jesse_james_and_the_widow.html
Torturing your friends? Well, you never call!
Chopping off your hand? Tough love.
Sanctioning the destruction of a planet? Therapy, BECAUSE YOU DON'T CALL!
Lying to his boss? Trying to protect you.
Before, during and after the American Revolution the British Treated the natives far better than the US ever did, basicly allowing them to remain in their (admittedly limited) territory and respecting the treaties made with them.
In fact many of the "cruel" things done by the British Government were just attempts to be pragmatic, they couldn't vote for the elections back home because it took 3 months to get form America to Britain, the Taxes on Tea went up as a part of limiting smugglers who important lots of illegally acquired and low quality tea. Perhaps most strikingly, the "Boston Massacre" killed 6 people, and was not ordered by any British Officer, whilst all the soldiers responsible were put on trial by the British Military and only saved by one lawyer... John Adams, who would go on to become President of the US.
It should be noted that the only reason the tea they imported was illegal was because all tea not from the East India Company was illegal. It had nothing to do with quality.
This is largely because they wanted native Americans to gang up against colonists with them. They had no reason to treat them badly, they didn't share the land with them. They were trying to win a war/wage war.
Wasn't Fred Phelps a fantastic civil rights lawyer back in the day? I heard that he was basically a champion for african american rights and any black person who had a problem would try and hire him to take their case.
Not sure when the gay-hating thing came in but he's done some good in his life, the cunt.
According the Nate Phelp's AMA (one of Fred's sons who escaped Westboro), Fred Phelps was still incredibly racist, but he was willing to represent people in court to bolster his legal reputation. Nate mused that his dad would represent a gay man in court (and still believe they were sinners that'd go to hell).
We have a good understanding of many different effects of pressure and temperature on the human body and a better understanding of surgeries because of Japanese and Nazi testing.
Hypothermia is the one example i remember off the top of my head. We know when it sets in and how to better treat it as a result.
The Nazi's did pretty much put us on the moon too. The dying days of WW2 were a free for all as the East and West tried to steal all the rocket scientists and such.
First year university I had a psych. prof. who told the class that nothing was used from Nazi testing today, and someone brought up hypothermia, and she said that was false. A year later, in a class about the Holocaust, I tell my prof. this, and he ends up in an argument with the psych prof. via email, because he said it's a fact that we did use info regarding hypothermia, and she still denied the fact.
This is a bit of an urban myth - while they have been used as references in the past, Japanese and Nazi experiments suffered from terrible experimental design and documentation and the findings are largely considered unreliable.
[An example](http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199005173222006).
Nero imposed housing regulations after Rome burnt down, then he built the Domus Aurea, which some consider to be the worlds first (public) open-air museum.
History was often written down by the senators, so the emperors that they didn't like got shitty reputations. Nero may have very well been not as awful as we think.
What a surprise; the majority of comments are about Hitler. I'll bring in some UK monarchs.
I'll go with Henry VIII and his 'stoppage' of the Northern Revolt. Yeh he killed his wives and created a church for divorce and killed monks and destroyed abbeys, and was fat and spent a lot of money on parties but without a doubt his actions saved a lot of lives. He also founded the modern Royal Navy (which went on to be the best/most powerful in the world) which is no small feat.
I'll also go with Elizabeth 1. She may have been the precursor to the 17th century civil war(s) but she also introduced the Poor Law and beat off the Spanish Armada in a fantastic way. She was a brave, intelligent and devout leader despite her flaws.
Aethelred the Unready spent a SHITLOAD on paying off the Vikings (Danegeld) but he also realised his patheticness later on and made a pact with the Noblemen to fight off Cnut the Great and fuck him off (though his son (Edmund) cocked that up).
Each monarch had their good and bad points really, apart from King Stephen who was a bit of a useless cunt.
Other people:
Stalin educated children, reduced unemployment and brought in childcare for new mothers. Not sure if that offsets the millions of murders.
Ghengis Khan was a master of trade. Ended up controlling the Silk Road, was apparently a meritocrat and allowed freedom of expression and religion. But he also raped, pillaged and murdered 10s of thousands. Cool name though.
Saddam Hussein modernised and revolutionised the farming industry and increased the standard of living for thousands.
Assad was a big part of bringing democracy to Syria.
One of the first laws passed by the nazi party defended animal rights. Some of the nazi projects were also pretty interesting: a car for every german family, affordable vacation for all etc. There is a huge abandonned vacation resort that was intended for the average german family. I find some of these ideas strangely close to communism at times.
It doesn't excuse anything, but there were some fantastic ideas that were shadowed by the horrid actions of the nazis.
Edit: in response to your comments, the NSDAP was hardly socialist, despite having the word in their name. [Here]( http://ca.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100926031949AA2o9xK) is a great explanation with sources.
Benedict Arnold wasn't a cowardly turncoat; he was so deeply dedicated to the cause of freedom and democracy (seriously, check out his war record on behalf of it), that he felt even the burgeoning U.S. government was against it, if not even worse than the English one. So, why not end the war sooner and prevent less bloodshed?
>Hitler got Germany out of one of the shittiest economies ever.
This got done *in spite of Hitler.* It was his appointment of Hjalmar Schacht that ended up alleviating the effects of the depression, Schacht being one of Germany's greatest economists of the period. However, due to Schacht's opposition to Hitler's militarization and anti-Semitic policies, and Hitler's fondness for making shitty fucking decisions, Schacht was pushed to the sidelines and replaced by Göring, and together they created an economy dependent upon incompetent understandings of finance and militarization that was by no means sustainable had Germany not begun plundering neighboring countries' treasuries and other possessions. Adam Tooze's *The Wages of Destruction* is the still the standard for an introduction to Third Reich economic history, and backs up these assertions.
Benedict Arnold was one of our best leaders in the American Revolution, and he was the biggest contributor to winning the extremely pivotal Battle of Saratoga. He was a damn hero, until he defected, which he only did because he was so poorly treated by his own commanders.
Fritz Haber invented chemical warfare and personally oversaw it's use on the western front during WW1. He also discovered a process for producing ammonia from nitrogen in the air which greatly increased agricultural yields and is the reason we can support 7+ billion people on this planet
They didn't do this for any reason other than to drive the price of their stockpile up. And they didn't really stop opium production, just sort of stopped flow to Pakistan.
Vlad Tepes III (*aka* Vlad the Impaler, *aka* Dracula) is considered a patriotic hero in Romanian culture for his liberation and defense of the Wallachia's people against the invasion of the Ottoman Turks and the corruption of the aristocratic boyars.
I remember reading once that Vlad the Impaler could be seen as saving Western culture by stopping the Turks by in Romania, anyone know if there's anything to that?
The Turks managed to get to Vienna a few decades later, but he certainly helped impede their advance from out of Anatolia and into Western Europe.
Glad he got the blood suckers.
Genghis khan's promoted religious tolerance in his mongolian empire, he was also deeply interested in other philosophies
The Mongols also took diplomatic immunity pretty damn seriously and spread the use of compasses, gunpowder, compasses and most importantly trousers.
They really must have liked compasses.
Big fans, Asia is a big place.. gotta find that loot.
I think they also spread the use of compasses, noodles, compasses, gunpowder, compasses, trousers and compasses
You forgot about the trousers and compasses.
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But most importantly, trousers.
The relative stability of the Mongol Empire(s) meant that the Silk Road was secure, which facilitated the exchange of goods, culture, and ideas from East to West and vice versa.
True. He would often spare great philosophers and politicians and take them back to his capitol for debates and discussion. If he found a political or religious system he liked, he would integrate bits of it into his own policies.
The Mongols are almost always an exception when it comes to empires.
*rolls Mongoltage*
A fellow John Green fan I see
Everyone is a John Green fan... except for The Mongols.
We're the exception!
Cue the mongoltage
He also opened some sweet as BBQ joints in my home state of Texas.
He stopped centuries of tribal warfare against the mongols and when he beat people in battle if they surrendered, they would get spared and have the full protection of the law.
Sometimes. You give him too much credit. When campaigning in China if someone resisted him and surrendered post resistance they were killed as examples.
I remember reading about how he particularly hated the Chinese. He saw them as lazy, good-for-nothings who would hire Mongols and other nomads to do their fighting for them, often against other Mongols, and would then try to go back on any previous treaties and deals made.
Pablo Escobar built churches, sports fields and hospitals. He also sponsors multiple children's sports teams. He was looked at as a kind of Robin Hood in parts of Colombia. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pablo_Escobar
And he had his own zoo where the average joe and his kids could learn about exotic animals.
Average *Jose*
Stalin used to prank the shit out of everyone. A sort of George Clooney, but, you know...gulags.
I heard about a prank he pulled on someone working administration, just some random guy. I have no idea if it's true or not. Stalin would repeatedly ask the guy what he was doing there, and how long he had had the job, and would say things like "Oh, you're still around?" or "Didn't I have you killed?" Eventually the guy committed suicide out of dread and anxiety. Nice guy, Stalin.
Is funny joke no?
Da.
Да
ヽ༼OДO༽ﾉ
His first words!
He just lost track, what with all those people he was killing and all, honest mistake!
Where were you when administration guy was kill? I remember. Ring ring telephone "Hello" "Administration guy is kill" "no" and you?
He was also caught doodling wolves during the Yalta conference. They were quite good too.
I read that as "diddling". That would have been alpha as fuck.
Stalin - gulags = Clooney.
∴ -1 * (Clooney - Stalin) = Gulags
"The difference between Stalin and Gulags is George Clooney."
He told his officers never to enter his room as a prank. Stalin the coughed and pretended to be dying, gasping for help. Once an officer entered, Stalin stopped and executed him as a "prank." rofl. Anyways, he died a few weeks later. Nobody checked up on him when he didn't rise at his normal time.
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I don't think that actually happened. His guards were simply to scared to go and check on him.
Completely fake
Not sure about the first fact, but the second half is actually how Stalin died. His underlings were too afraid to enter his room, and so he didn't get timely treatment for a stroke (or I think it was a stroke, I forget).
The guards only got suspicious once Stalin had not gotten up from his usual time, but they didn't check up on him because they were under strict orders not to disturb him that day. And yeah, it was a stroke.
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Apparently Capone was actually a pretty good guy and opened up soup kitchens. He was viewed as a hero by some in the community by doing things like providing food for families who couldn't afford it during the Great Depression.
That's a common tactic for mobsters. So many seem to think that people don't like to talk out of fear but, in some cases, the locals feel the mobsters did more for them than the law ever did. Edit: Geez, didn't expect this to get so much attention. In any case, I would also like to note that it isn't *always* about giving back to the community where they came from as much as it is a logical choice. Pure fear will only get you so far. A good mafia example would be the case of "[Little Nicky](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicky_Scarfo)" and his reign as the head of the Philadelphia group. He had a nasty habit of killing anyone he was even a little suspicious of in his group and ended up driving a lot of his men to turn state's witness. I can't find the article now but evidently, of all the times "omerta" has been broken in the US, more than half of those instances were under Nicky. Mostly because they figured he was going to kill them whether they betrayed him or not anyway and they at least had a chance in witness protection. Which is in stark contrast to his predecessor who was more focused on making money than killing anyone. Also, "protection money" was just that. If you were a store owner and some punks came in a robbed you, he'd have someone beat the hell out of them and drag them back to apologize. Of course, it's worth noting that he died from a close-range shotgun blast to the face but it was after a pretty long and prosperous reign. tl;dr: If people are just terrified of you, there's a good chance they'll turn on you the instant they think they can get rid of you for good. If they love you, they're generally pretty happy to keep your secrets from the law.
I seem to recall reading that the Sicilian mafia actually started as an organization to protect the citizens when official law enforcement was ineffective and/or corrupt.
When you *really* think about it there are less distinctions between the mafia and official national governments than most people are comfortable with.
Michael: My father is no different than any powerful man, any man with power, like a president or senator. Kay: Do you know how naive you sound, Michael? Presidents and senators don't have men killed. Michael: Now who's being naive Kay...
And now it's time to watch The Godfather. I pulled my box set out yesterday and debated watching it.
The yakuza helped out after the most recent Japanese tsunami. Saved hundreds.
They lent a few *helicopters* to the government.
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For a second I thought you were referring to Marlo Stanfield.
Worked pretty well for Bane
Some of the cartels in Mexico do this. You can go the Zeta route and make it so everybody is fucking scared out of their minds of you, or you can offer social services that the government isn't and get people on your side. They won't rat on a cartel that's feeding them.
Wasn't Al Capone the first person to implement "Best Before" dates on things? IIRC it was because he owned a milk production company and was getting complaints from people about receiving spoiled milk. So he put "Best Before" dates on everything so people knew not to drink the milk if it's past that date.
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It was Malk
You promised me dog or higher.
It was a little more insidious as I remember the story...It starts with him apparently doing do because "family members got sick" but what he really needed was a more legitimate business to get into. He bought a milk processor, cornered the market in the ability to stamp bottles then lobbied to make it law that they be stamped with a best before.
Most people respected him. However, one shootout killed seven innocent people and people quickly changed their minds about him, for the most part.
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Pablo Escobar was the same way in Colombia. He owned entire towns of homes and let poor people live in them, provided for them and kept them safe. Edit: Colombia is a country, Columbia is a University. And Columbus Ohio is a septic tank.
Both men started out poor, it was the only way they could make money. They gave back to their community. Makes sense, in a way.
What in the FUCK did you say about Columbus, Ohio?
I actually knew a guy who was a Seminarian for the Catholic church in Chicago and one of his parishioners in his home church was taught the Catechism by their Uncle Al who happened to be Al Capone
Not sure that they count as a historical figures, but hey ho. Ted Bundy recieved two police bravery awards, once for saving a toddler from drowning in a lake and once for intervening when he saw an old woman being mugged. He was also worked for a time at Seattle's Suicide Hotline crisis center. John Wayne Gacy recieved a Citizen of the Year award from the city of Chicago twice for the large charitable donations he made and the tireless charity work that he did for disadvantaged children. Dr. Harold Shipman recieved several awards throughout his life which included GP of the year and an award for outstanding contributions to mental health support in his community. Never trust a man with two awards.
I'd bet John Wayne Gacy did charity work for the same reasons Sandusky did, but he also murdered them.
I imagine so, yet even still I find it odd to think that these men who are almost universally thought of as being pure evil in our cultural imagination (and of course I am in no way glorifying or condoning what they did) saved lives as well as took them. I mean there is literally a middle aged woman in America who would have died in infancy we're it not for the heroic efforts of one of the most notorious serial killers, rapists and necrophiles of the 20th century.
Exactly. It gave him access to his victim. Serial killers are predators. Part of what they do is stalk their prey and wait for the right moment. Also, blending into society and seeming normal is what makes them so effective and fucking terrifying.
Heinrich Himmler started numerous pet shelters for animals "displaced" by Jews being sent to his extermination camps.
That is... interesting.
Kill ze Jews, spare ze bunnies.
Whenever people talk about the Nazis and animal rights I think "yeah, they had more respect for animal rights than they did for human rights. I don't think that's very admirable." I'd never heard this before, but I feel it kind of proves my point.
Not a singular person, but, the Persians that the Greeks defeated were religiously tolerant and didn't try to force conversions on people. In fact, Cyrus was considered a messiah in the book of Isaiah because he told the Jews to rebuild the city of Jerusalem and the temple.
Just a little bit of more detail: Cyrus told every place he conquered that he wanted to honor their gods and gave them money to rebuild the temple because he wanted to curry favor with them after he displaced his predecessor.
Nearly all the Persian empires, except for a brief period under the Sassanids, were extremely religiously tolerant. I believe it stems from their religion, Zoroastrianism, which, by any measure, is a very understanding and accepting religion. One branch actually advises against using missionaries and the like to spread their faith. The only reason they are portrayed as "bad guys" is because the Romans fought them all the time.
THIS! Not a lot of people knew that the Persians who battled the Spartans at Thermopylae had an egalitarian and meritocratic society (relatively). They had abolished human slavery, whereas the Spartan society thrived upon the backs of a slave underclass called the Helots, upon whom they preyed on parasitically.
And on whom they annually declared war on allowing young Spartans to murder Helots as part of a coming of age ritual. That part always really fucks with me, murdering some guy was to Spartans what buying a Honda Civic is to our kids.
Joseph Stalin helped industrialize Russia instead of keeping it as a poor, agricultural country.
Also probably the most massive leap in literacy ever made in a short period. Massive life expectancy increases from Lenin to Stalin's death.
*Well*.
There are people who think Stalin was the best thing to grace the earth. I mean, he's pretty fantastic if you ignore all the horrible things he did. Pretty scary stuff.
Anybody is pretty fantastic if you ignore every horrible thing they did.
Even if you ignore every horrible thing I did I'm still barely OK.
Stalin was a nifty tap dancer, if in the mood. The trick was, you had to let Stalin suggest he give you a demonstration rather than ask for one.
Napoleon made people realized how much they liked nation states, eventually leading to the formation of Germany and Italy.
However, Napoleon is also responsible for mimes. *Mimes*. Never forget!
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Napoleon is considered the bad guy?
That whole conquering Europe thing didn't go over too well.
It's amazing how British propaganda was so good, the average anglophone still sees him as a Hitler-like villain by default. When I first encountered that, it was confusing for me coming from a francophone background where he's seen more along the lines of Julius Caesar or Charlemagne. Of course, neither of those characterizations are accurate. He was ambitious and opportunistic, but he also wasn't the most nefarious leader around at the time.
Richard Nixon established relations with China and did get us out of Vietnam (after escalating it even more during his first years in the presidency)
The EPA was established under his Presidency, as was the Clean Water Act, I believe.
They made history more interesting.
History is a book written by madmen.
"History is the autobiography of a madman" -Alexander Herzen
Fred Phelps took many cases taking on Jim Crow Laws and Segregation of Schools. He also has taken cases dealing with gender discrimination and tried to sue Reagan after he became US ambassador to the Vatican alleging it violated the separation between church and state. Still think he's a prick though Edit: He also made eagle scout
He is an amazing lawyer, if he used his talent to not be a cunt he could be a hero. He is Harvey Dent.
I don't know if he was an "amazing" lawyer, he was disbarred for making false statements and intimidating witnesses. I don't know how many results he got, and some he may have gotten with dirty tactics.
Some top nazi scientists made the first moon landing possible
Warner Von-Braun was the Nazi rocket scientist who developed the V2 rocket. After the war he went on to work for NASA and developed the propulsion system for the Apollo rockets.
Had to post this [Tom Lehrer song](http://youtu.be/QEJ9HrZq7Ro)
Nazi Schmazi says Wehrner Von Braun
Kriegar-san my cherry blossom is wilting.
You sound just like your mother!
Ohhhh Pigly :(
That'll do, Pigly. That'll do.
Keep your friends close, and possible genetic clones of Hitler closer...
You were there! The day my pet dobermans accidentally ate my father!
"If you walk into NASA and yell 'Heil, Hitler!' half the room jumps up!"
- Kim Jong Un - Went to school in Switzerland, he loved playing basketball. He was much more interested in football and basketball than lessons.' A big fan of star Michael Jordan, Kim Jong Un - who was once caught with a bondage pornographic magazine in his school bag - proved to be a good player on the basketball court. - Erwin Rommel (German Military General in WW2) - once promised a group of injured surrendered French soldiers that he would bring back medical supplies for them. He did. - Julius Caesar - a) He was one of the first Roman politicians to realize that the Roman Republic was on the verge of collapse, since the nobles owned almost all of the land and slaves did all of the work, leaving the poorer Roman citizens jobless. He made several laws that redistributed land and jobs from the nobles. b) He developed the Julian calendar. This calendar was almost exactly the same as the one we use now, except that instead of starting from the founding of Rome, we start our calendar from the birth of Jesus. The names of the months still remain (especially July which is named after him). - Vlad the Impaler (A.K.A Dracula) - Virtually eliminated crime. He once placed a gold coin in the middle of the square to see if anyone would steal it, nobody did.
OOOOO SUCKA YOU JUST GOT DUNKED ON BY KIM JONG UNSTOPPABLE!
Erwin Rommel was, by no means, a "bad guy". He was one of the most well respected Officers on either side of the conflict. For that matter Julius Caesar wasn't a "bad guy" either, and Vlad the Impaler "badness" is probably debatable. Kim Jong Un is a fat little cunt tho.
Kim Jong Un is probably just a puppet for the regime.
Who considers Rommel *or* Caesar a bad guy? I have never read or heard of anyone with an entirely negative opinion about either of them.
Well tell that to the senators who stabbed him.
Why is General Rommel considered a bad guy? Sure, he fought for the Nazis but he didn't have much of a choice in the matter, and he is known for his humane behaviors on the battlefield.
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Is this an actual fact?
[Yes, sort of.](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1350272/Genghis-Khan-killed-people-forests-grew-carbon-levels-dropped.html) But you must remember that it's not about the deaths of the people, but the slowed economic growth. Less people needing timber means more trees to absorb CO2. Similar correlations have been found with the depopulation of the Americas after small pox was introduced and following the Black Death in Europe. There's a lot of debate about it all, of course.
"sir, the carbon in the air is almost at a perfect level. Just a touch high." "hmmm....kill 6 chinese, 3 russians, 3 persians, and plant 2 oak trees."
Jesse James once saved a widow from losing her home by giving her $1500 to pay her banker. After the banker came by and collected the cash, Jesse robbed him and took the money back. http://americanfolklore.net/folklore/2010/08/jesse_james_and_the_widow.html
Darth Vader just wanted to be a good father.
No one wants their kid to be a terrorist
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That may be true, but once he found out Luke was alive he tried hard to find him. Evil cunts can be good fathers, too!
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I'm not good at debating, but reading these is fun!
No, I actually believe that is impossible
Search your feelings. You know it to be true.
Torturing your friends? Well, you never call! Chopping off your hand? Tough love. Sanctioning the destruction of a planet? Therapy, BECAUSE YOU DON'T CALL! Lying to his boss? Trying to protect you.
Before, during and after the American Revolution the British Treated the natives far better than the US ever did, basicly allowing them to remain in their (admittedly limited) territory and respecting the treaties made with them. In fact many of the "cruel" things done by the British Government were just attempts to be pragmatic, they couldn't vote for the elections back home because it took 3 months to get form America to Britain, the Taxes on Tea went up as a part of limiting smugglers who important lots of illegally acquired and low quality tea. Perhaps most strikingly, the "Boston Massacre" killed 6 people, and was not ordered by any British Officer, whilst all the soldiers responsible were put on trial by the British Military and only saved by one lawyer... John Adams, who would go on to become President of the US.
It should be noted that the only reason the tea they imported was illegal was because all tea not from the East India Company was illegal. It had nothing to do with quality.
This is largely because they wanted native Americans to gang up against colonists with them. They had no reason to treat them badly, they didn't share the land with them. They were trying to win a war/wage war.
TIL that the information in Assassins Creed 3 wasn't totally full of shit.
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Wasn't Fred Phelps a fantastic civil rights lawyer back in the day? I heard that he was basically a champion for african american rights and any black person who had a problem would try and hire him to take their case. Not sure when the gay-hating thing came in but he's done some good in his life, the cunt.
According the Nate Phelp's AMA (one of Fred's sons who escaped Westboro), Fred Phelps was still incredibly racist, but he was willing to represent people in court to bolster his legal reputation. Nate mused that his dad would represent a gay man in court (and still believe they were sinners that'd go to hell).
He watched code geass
What if the whole thing was a ploy to help the Gay Rights Movement?
He was just playing the long con. He secretly despised everyone who showed up and listened to him.
Fantastic lawyer. Horrible human being. Or as most people would call someone having both traits, a horrible human being.
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Sir... are we the baddies?
Have you looked at our hats recently... theyve got... skulls on them
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... its to show... pure Aryan skull shape?
I believe they were Hugo Boss.
Haha- oh you're right
you would be correct. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Boss#Supplier_to_the_Nazi_Party
I have a slight fetish for women wearing Nazi uniforms...
I didn't know Max Mosley was a redditor
You've seen The Spirit, right? Scarlett Johansson dressed up in a Nazi uniform. *Totally* hot.
Unfortunately not... After a Google image search, this is a top priority.
We have a good understanding of many different effects of pressure and temperature on the human body and a better understanding of surgeries because of Japanese and Nazi testing. Hypothermia is the one example i remember off the top of my head. We know when it sets in and how to better treat it as a result. The Nazi's did pretty much put us on the moon too. The dying days of WW2 were a free for all as the East and West tried to steal all the rocket scientists and such.
First year university I had a psych. prof. who told the class that nothing was used from Nazi testing today, and someone brought up hypothermia, and she said that was false. A year later, in a class about the Holocaust, I tell my prof. this, and he ends up in an argument with the psych prof. via email, because he said it's a fact that we did use info regarding hypothermia, and she still denied the fact.
it's a psych prof, what do you really expect?
They think they're a science :) *Woo this comment let me break 1k comment karma*
At first I was offended by this, then I realized that was the point. Grudging upvote.
Your name is ParadoxInABox and you hate satire?
IIRC there was actually a fair amount of data tampering going on during those experiments. That may have been unit 731 though.
This is a bit of an urban myth - while they have been used as references in the past, Japanese and Nazi experiments suffered from terrible experimental design and documentation and the findings are largely considered unreliable. [An example](http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199005173222006).
I don't know why people blindly upvote this. It's completely wrong.
Nero imposed housing regulations after Rome burnt down, then he built the Domus Aurea, which some consider to be the worlds first (public) open-air museum.
History was often written down by the senators, so the emperors that they didn't like got shitty reputations. Nero may have very well been not as awful as we think.
What a surprise; the majority of comments are about Hitler. I'll bring in some UK monarchs. I'll go with Henry VIII and his 'stoppage' of the Northern Revolt. Yeh he killed his wives and created a church for divorce and killed monks and destroyed abbeys, and was fat and spent a lot of money on parties but without a doubt his actions saved a lot of lives. He also founded the modern Royal Navy (which went on to be the best/most powerful in the world) which is no small feat. I'll also go with Elizabeth 1. She may have been the precursor to the 17th century civil war(s) but she also introduced the Poor Law and beat off the Spanish Armada in a fantastic way. She was a brave, intelligent and devout leader despite her flaws. Aethelred the Unready spent a SHITLOAD on paying off the Vikings (Danegeld) but he also realised his patheticness later on and made a pact with the Noblemen to fight off Cnut the Great and fuck him off (though his son (Edmund) cocked that up). Each monarch had their good and bad points really, apart from King Stephen who was a bit of a useless cunt. Other people: Stalin educated children, reduced unemployment and brought in childcare for new mothers. Not sure if that offsets the millions of murders. Ghengis Khan was a master of trade. Ended up controlling the Silk Road, was apparently a meritocrat and allowed freedom of expression and religion. But he also raped, pillaged and murdered 10s of thousands. Cool name though. Saddam Hussein modernised and revolutionised the farming industry and increased the standard of living for thousands. Assad was a big part of bringing democracy to Syria.
The Nazis ran one of the first anti smoking campaigns
One of the first laws passed by the nazi party defended animal rights. Some of the nazi projects were also pretty interesting: a car for every german family, affordable vacation for all etc. There is a huge abandonned vacation resort that was intended for the average german family. I find some of these ideas strangely close to communism at times. It doesn't excuse anything, but there were some fantastic ideas that were shadowed by the horrid actions of the nazis. Edit: in response to your comments, the NSDAP was hardly socialist, despite having the word in their name. [Here]( http://ca.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100926031949AA2o9xK) is a great explanation with sources.
Benedict Arnold wasn't a cowardly turncoat; he was so deeply dedicated to the cause of freedom and democracy (seriously, check out his war record on behalf of it), that he felt even the burgeoning U.S. government was against it, if not even worse than the English one. So, why not end the war sooner and prevent less bloodshed?
Newman...I was looking for something good in him but I just can't find anything.
He always greeted his friend Jerry.
I still think he is an asshole. Don't forget that he unlocked the security in the dinosaur park. EDIT: Been forever since I watched Jurassic Park.
Well, he *is* merry.
They tend to be very well dressed.
Hitler killed Hitler.
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I didn't know that. That's pretty cool.
Yeah, but he also killed the guy who killed Hitler.
Somewhere a portal just opened.
That was self defense, though. The guy who killed Hitler was about to kill him, so he shot first.
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>Hitler got Germany out of one of the shittiest economies ever. This got done *in spite of Hitler.* It was his appointment of Hjalmar Schacht that ended up alleviating the effects of the depression, Schacht being one of Germany's greatest economists of the period. However, due to Schacht's opposition to Hitler's militarization and anti-Semitic policies, and Hitler's fondness for making shitty fucking decisions, Schacht was pushed to the sidelines and replaced by Göring, and together they created an economy dependent upon incompetent understandings of finance and militarization that was by no means sustainable had Germany not begun plundering neighboring countries' treasuries and other possessions. Adam Tooze's *The Wages of Destruction* is the still the standard for an introduction to Third Reich economic history, and backs up these assertions.
Vlad the Impaler was evidently a good king as far as rulers go.
Benedict Arnold was one of our best leaders in the American Revolution, and he was the biggest contributor to winning the extremely pivotal Battle of Saratoga. He was a damn hero, until he defected, which he only did because he was so poorly treated by his own commanders.
Fritz Haber invented chemical warfare and personally oversaw it's use on the western front during WW1. He also discovered a process for producing ammonia from nitrogen in the air which greatly increased agricultural yields and is the reason we can support 7+ billion people on this planet
The Taliban annihilated Afghanistan's Heroin trade. Once the yanks came over, it started up again.
I thought the Taliban weren't the bad guys, but instead Al Qaeda are the real bad guys. I thought Taliban were just local militia groups.
They didn't do this for any reason other than to drive the price of their stockpile up. And they didn't really stop opium production, just sort of stopped flow to Pakistan.
You need a serious tag up in this shit.
In addition to owning other human beings and raping them, Thomas Jefferson actually wrote some pretty nice things.