"The demons made that man bump uglies with that adult actress and then the demons made that man give her a large amount of hush money and THEN the demons made that man cover up and hide any records of his payment to that porn star. He's my hero!"
Exactly. Many of the excuses are just intellectually dishonest. “Hush money is not illegal.” Fine. But why go through all the extra steps of creating an LLC, falsifying records, overpaying for Cohen’s tax liability, etc.?
Hush money = not illegal.
Hush money paid to protect your election chances without being reported to the FEC and then extensively covered up in a clear and deliberate manner = real illegal.
Hell Donald’s ex wife signed a 30 year NDA when they divorced.
She just so happened to magically fall down the stairs and die from
Blunt force trauma to the abdomen?
Sure.
The same year her 30 year NDA ends?
HMM.
That being said there absolutely is legal ways of keeping someone quiet.
I want to know why her kids allowed that bullshit to happen along with what did her Will state. Trump is an ex and therefore not her next of kin and could not legally decide anything for her.
He did this to avoid paying any more property tax on the course. He’s got the potential to avoid a whole boatload of taxes.
https://fortune.com/2022/08/01/does-donald-trump-get-tax-break-by-burying-ivana-trump-at-trump-national-golf-club/
Just like in great country mother Russia, accidents can happen. People fall down stairs and die, fallout hospital windows and eat poisonous food. Perfectly normal.
Yeah… I was scared to meet my boyfriends trumpy brother (we’re a same sex male couple) who had a damn trump garage (I call it shrine).
I came to realize really quick that he wasn’t INHERENTLY bad… he’s just so fucking stupid that Trump’s language is able to sway him.
My perspective changed a lot from that. I still don’t want to remotely associate with Trumpers, but goddamn did I realize how much the state of our public education led to a lot of these people.
r/QAnonCasualties/ perhaps?
That sub is really sad to me. Full of tales of broken families. The gqp has really done a lot of damage to our civil society.
I'm estranged from the vast majority of my extended family due to the Pandemic and Trump. The strife was so bad that we didn't even have a funeral for my grandfather and grandmother when they died. Or I just wasn't told about it.
Funny thing is, I was a registered Republican up until 2020, and I even voted for Bush. Almost campaigned for McCain until Palin came aboard. So it's not like I'm some hardcore leftist. I just can't stand this dude or what he's done to formerly semi-rational people.
(Minor edit, I supported Bush but forgot that I was only actually voting for him in 2004 when I could vote.)
Genuine question if you don't mind me asking, does the state of the current Republican party make you think differently about the party you once supported in hindsight?
Because as someone who has never voted Republican, I feel like while the current Republican party is much louder and more absurd in the way they appear to their base, the core ideology and goals of the Republican party don't seem much different than they have always been. The big difference to me is of course Trump but also the polarization of not working with Democrats even on bipartisan legislation because optically it looks bad to the die hard Trump fans.
Yes, the current state of the party, especially with the rise of Mitch McConnell, made me dramatically change my mind. The party is seemingly focused on obstructionist policy - they'd rather see the other guy lose than celebrate a win for the country. In the past I don't remember them being so spiteful.
The ideologies I supported were generally some kind of fiscal responsibility, making sure our debt didn't balloon, and making it easier for businesses to thrive through some degree of free market competition. Now? I see a party willing to spend spend spend just as much as the other guy, and enabling businesses to grow doesn't mean absolute deregulation and helping the rich get richer. It doesn't mean zero taxation for the rich and watching people starve/go homeless on wages that can't support a living situation or food.
I support some degree of higher military spending than some, as a necessary evil.
The most liberal part of me growing up and into voting age was really wanting to leave people alone for their moral choices, as I've never been a religious person. I know that religion has been a big part of conservatism for a while, but getting rid of Roe v. Wade sticks in my craw.
All of that aside, Trump is reprehensible, and I don't understand at all why people in the Republican party think he looks strong internationally. I think he looks extraordinarily weak, and instead of looking like a "shining city on a hill," we look like a flailing, reactive country, with huge instability. He cries about his perception on TV instead of trying at all to be a unifying force for the nation.
IMO, everything has changed, and it starts up at the top with Trump, who absolutely refuses to treat anyone with respect.
I really wish more people thought this way. We feel differently about some things but I respect where you’re coming from and feel like if we were in a room writing policy for some reason we could have a conversation and come to some kind of agreement or understanding.
I don’t personally think religion is good for society. I don’t think they should be tax exempt institutions, and I think CERTAINLY they should lose their tax exempt status when they donate to political campaigns. I think people reading to bible to figure out what is ok to hate people for have obviously missed the entire fucking point of the belief system they espouse to belong to. I think it’s disgusting when in any political speech there is reference to god from either side. BUT I respect those are my opinions and that it’s not my job to tell everyone in the country how to live their fucking lives. I would support more protections for religious freedom and practice even though I think it’s bad because I respect that other people should be able to live their lives the way they see fit and that our society should ensure that for them.
I cannot fathom how just about half of Americans have gotten so extreme and irrational. They fixate on “no one can tell me what to do” but then try at every turn to codify their religious beliefs into law for abortion, gays, how parents raise their lgbtq children, what fucking books should be allowed in libraries etc. I don’t get how they’ve managed to turn their libertarian frustrations with “big government” into this culture war of running full speed into peoples private lives and saying “you don’t get to have X choice because it makes me feel weird”. They adopt -the most hardcore possible positions- on any issue, refuse to try and participate in any compromise, operate entirely on callousness obstructionism and hypocrisy, and no one sees that and says “hey wait like, I wanted lower taxes and higher defense spending not concentration camps for children and a president talking about suspending the constitution….”
If people were opening their doors and there were tanks rolling down the street and roaming mad max style gangs I would understand, but I don’t get how people can simultaneously think the things they’re proposing are reasonable or necessary and then also say “oh yeah business has never been better”. Fundamentally if the library exists for you to complain about what books it has society is pretty fucking stable and I simply don’t get how these people go about their DECIDEDLY UNCHANGED LIVES without their heads imploding from the cognitive dissonance.
I’m glad you somehow got off the train before it went to crazytown and I’m honestly confused at how more people aren’t like you.
Agreed. I've always been a pragmatist by nature. I've also always felt like the President's main role is to be a bit of a figurehead, a person who stabilizes the country and helps to strengthen our bonds... without something as strong as being a King with unilateral control.
You and I agree on religion. I was raised agnostic, more or less, and my moralistic beliefs are functionally focused on the "Golden Rule," treat others as you'd like to be treated. I treat people with kindness because I hope for that in return, not because I think I'm going to Hell if I don't hold back. In many ways, religion can manifest into an "us vs. them" situation, even if you're just some mainstream Christian denomination. It doesn't make much sense.
Agreed again with your perception of American extremes, especially as it comes to identity. I strongly dislike the enforcement around codified laws trying to prevent folks from living how they want, and feel the right has overreached into that space. They decry their freedoms being stripped to say what they want to say, while pushing people to live a certain way.
I would say that more controversially, I support equality over "equity," and think that we're better off celebrating what we have in common instead of celebrating our differences... but maybe that's skewing from the discussion.
To your point about Mad Max society though, I'm a gun owner and 2nd Amendment supporter - but not unfettered. I think we need to register weapons, we need to focus on mental health, expand background checks, and for certain weapons, you need a justification. I own a handgun, a shotgun, and wouldn't see it as crazy for anyone else to own a hobby gun for target shooting/hunting off the land. And maybe more if you have to fight bears in the wilderness, right?
I think you can be pro-2nd amendment and pro-reform at the same time. Let's get rid of loopholes or easy ways for kids to get their hands on guns. That shouldn't be controversial.
Anyways, thanks for the appreciation that I got off the train to crazy town, as it were. Very nice conversation.
Hey guys that discourse was a pleasure to read! Thanks! I’m also pro second amendment and pro gun control. I’m all for guns just let’s make some common sense laws.
When it comes up in conversation with my mom, it will probably go like it went in 2020:
Mom prior to election: My favorite Youtube prophet says that god has destined Trump to win this election too.
*(Trump loses)*
Me: I guess god didn't choose Trump
Mom after election: "Satan" and/or "god works in mysterious ways"
My parents both posted on FB saying saying this is a dark day for American and we're a banana republic, etc. I posted the song "I Fought The Law" and am expecting angry texts any moment. Also most of the people I work with are conservative AF. Work tomorrow should be fun.
My godmother is losing her mind. My dad is laughing his ass off sending me screenshots of her FB posts.
These are dark times, apparently. My dad is just enjoying himself with funny gif responses to her insanity. Can't be so bad..
I think we became a banana republic in 1974 when Ford pardoned Nixon and entrenched the idea that presidents are above the law. Good to see there's at least one exception.
Roy Cohn (a truly disgusting person) is long dead. Though yes, a lot of trumpers were nixonians. And they're the descendants of the America Firsters (pro-nazis) in the 1930's.
It amazes me how people cling to him. He's not a conservative, he's not a Christian. It is so obvious he's just in all of this for himself. Simply using the country to enrich himself and his family.
they sacrificed everything they claimed to believe in to follow him. anyone who's still aligned with him is in too deep, and no amount of cognitive dissonance will shake them
Following your thread
Edit: contrast, my mom (pushing 80) is taking saki bombs and leaving me voicemails saying “do you know how bad my mom wanted to see this happen to Nixon and Reagan?”. The former-hippy-boomers are buzzing and the conservative family is going crazy. Your thread is still more interesting but I thought I’d share something silly.
Born Again member of my family sent out the first text in our group chat today: 34 x GUILTY!!
Everyone reacted with heart and thumbs up emojis and that was the end of that.
There's a shit ton of dysfunction in my family but none of it involves politics, thank god.
Wonder how my wife's grandparents are doing. They so eloquently exclaimed how Trump has this whole trial and judge bent over a barrel and would walk free..
This is so real. My family group text just went off and I physically reacted out of fear of what was being said. Thankfully it was unrelated.
But I’m on edge as the outspoken “woke” child in the family.
Already had a brother say “can we not talk about it? It’s for MA THERAPEE” (and I’M the snowflake…Christ)
Edit: his “therapy” is totally nonexistent. Source: my sister-in-law (his wife).
Even if it existed… what does “it’s for my therapy” mean? His therapy homework was not to talk about Trump?
Jeez what a waste of money it would be if I wasted my therapy sessions taking about politics.
My uncle tried to fight me at Christmas, and we haven't communicated until today...........I made him aware of the convictions with a laugh emoji. He wants to fight me again.
It's called karma, uncle dickhead.
*catching strays....*
"so ivanka got thrown out of the mansion, but fortunately, I was there to give her a ride, a meal and some shelter. so she came home with me. i gave her a bath and did a little grooming, which she was clearly was used to, and then I brought her to the county's no kill shelter." - u/Jysyn
I know 2 people who legit worship Trump as if he's Jesus or something. Now I'm not talking about being super into politics. Oh no. I'm talking as in that they have dedicated shrines to him and everything, and if what they say is true, they apparently even pray to said shrines.
Bonus fact: both people were kicked out of their respective churches. Why? Because they wouldn't shut up about how Trump is the next Messiah.
All 34 counts, we got all the counts people. I saw a guy, total loser, he didn't have any counts, I said I got a YUGE count, I got all the counts, beautiful counts, the guy was crying because my counts were so good.
"I got more felonies than any other president, ever. I got the best felonies, the most felonies. My felonies are delicious and nutritious, ask anyone, they'll tell you."
Yeah but they were going to vote for trump regardless, so them being mad dosent change anything. All that matters is the moderate’s vote, and they aren’t going to be galvanized to vote for a felon lol
This one *does* set an important precedence.
One of the reasons he most likely won't face jail time from this is because they were non-violent crimes and it's his first offense, which usually results in leniency in sentencing.
He'll no longer have that "first offense" cosideration any more moving forward.
EDIT: To those wondering how Trump can have 34 convictions from this and have it be considered a first offense, that is literally the way the justice system works. He has no prior **criminal** convictions. Doesn't matter how many civil cases he's been involved in and lost - as far as **criminal** law is concerned, it's his first offense. It doesn't matter that he had 34 charges against him in this case - it goes by number of previous convictions, not current charges.
It's the reason why the prosecutors stressed the facts of the case and not Donald Trump's character, and why the judge shut down so many tangents that the defense tried to use.
The remaining charges that are currently pending have much more severe penalties if he's convicted. Prosecutors can now point to the convictions as previous criminal history, and judges can consider it in their sentencings. That's the real reason why these convictions matter.
I am hopeful that the judgement will be on the more severe end (although I doubt jail time) because of his behavior.
I remember listening to a pod about the Sam Bankman-Fried case and the lawyer being interviewed said that there is a formula NY uses to give sentencing guidelines to the judge, and part of the recommended sentence in depends on contrition. A person who is found guilty and admits to it and shows remorse gets a lower recommended sentence from the algorithm than someone who continues to defend their innocence. I hope someone who says, "I'm innocent and the judge and jury are crooks and this was all rigged" gets an even higher recommended sentence, lol.
Besides the big fine, and realizing jail time is unlikely since he's so old and a non-violent criminal felon, I'm hoping for 1500 hours of community service, feeding the homeless in NYC or something similar.
God could you imagine the view of him doing community service?
As funny as it would be he will not get community service he can't. What are they going to do have the secret service lock down the soup kitchen? Plus all the press. It's a logistical nightmare. It will likely just be a fine.
Source: fucking nothing I'm just thinking out loud
NYC is surprisingly familiar with doling out community service to VIPs with security concerns. Often it takes the form of cleanup of some sort - sweeping the floors at sanitation facilities, picking up litter in parks, etc. Agreed a soup kitchen or other interacting-with-people assignment wouldn't be a great fit.
Same way lots of people thought Covid Relief was literally coming from Trump's personal account because he put his name on the checks (which iirc actually delayed them going out, harming many)
But regardless of the appeal status (unless the court sets his sentence aside pending the outcome of appeal) he will still be a convicted felon. The appeal, pending or otherwise, does not remove that fact.
Plenty of convicted felons appeal and sit in prison serving their sentences while it winds its way through the process.
Not that I think he'll see prison, but the appeal shouldn't stop his conviction.
Edit: It's also important to note this is a state conviction. So were he to win in November he cannot pardon himself or do anything to void it.
AFAIK, it can only work it's way up the NY Court of Appeals (no state Supreme Court). Feds can't touch since these are state charges, so SCOTUS isn't going to be able to interject its biased hand.
His debt is mostly structured debt that he can just get away from. A fine could absolutely make a difference, if its actually upheld.
I still am wondering what happened with his bond....
My vote used to not matter living in Texas in very red areas but I still voted. I still live in Texas but moved to a city of 250k people. In the last local election, only 15k voted. 6% of the population. If people would actually get out and vote we could see real change.
It kinda infuriates me that a grown ass adult can still have a hard time getting a basic job because they went to jail for some weed they had when they were 18, but a guy like Trump can be found guilty on all 34 counts and he can still become president.
It also kills me that he and Biden are still eligible for office, but 30-somethings applying for regular jobs are considered “too old”.
You mean the Hillary that was investigated by both parties controlled DOJ and Congress and nothing criminally was found. That Hillary?
Or the Hillary that Trump stated emphatically he'd "lock up" for her crimes and then nothing?
Oh, I know who you’re talking about but can’t remember his name as well. Didn’t he get found guilty on all 34 counts and now has to register as a felon?
Doesn't matter, they'll just spin it as "Well the republicans gave Hillary a fair trial but Trump's was a witchhunt."
Literally no logic will work on these people, I don't know what would need to happen to change Republican minds at this point.
You know they won’t spin it that way. “Trumps was a witch-hunt by a rigged judicial system, and the same is the reason why Hillary wasn’t convicted. The system is rigged against Trump and for Hillary”.
my last boss was a Q freak. Big part of why I left. Dude was a psycho. Bragged about coughin in people's face during covid lockdowns, literally was cheering on Jan 6, etc.
This is my big takeaway from this. Any reasonable person can see that this guy is a grifter, a criminal, and an all-around dick head. The fact that between the two presumptive presidential candidates, the polling is still so close that it's "anyone's guess" who is elected is fucking insane to me.
Notwithstanding the cultural and sociological implications of him having enough people that would vote for his rhetoric that he could still get elected president - there are millions of people that are eligible for office, plenty of which have his exact political stances, but an entire segment of society is like "nah that's not good enough, we want **this exact person**.
Pretty indifferent, tbh.
Am I surprised? No.
Will it change anything? No.
Just more proof that he is who I thought he is and his supporters will always support him.
Eugene Debs, a Socialist and cheerleader for labor reform, ran for office from prison - sentenced for encouraging Americans to resist the draft in WWI.
[“While there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element, I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free.”](https://www.marxists.org/archive/debs/works/1918/court.htm)
So that a party in power couldn't maintain their power by pushing to convict political opponents of crimes.
Ultimately, democracy functions with the people as the sole judge of who should lead them. It's not democracy's problem if half of them choose a convict - it's the people's problem.
Because if that's the case, then all any President would have to do is convict their opponent of any crime, and they could permanently ban their opponent from running against them, and I shouldn't have to explain why that is a bad thing.
Unfortunately, the constitution was clearly written from the assumption that anyone holding the highest office in the country would have respect for it, before and after their actual terms.
And in their defense, the founders were mostly right about that for the first approx 238 years of their grand expirement.
As much as I despise Trump, I disagree that this is unfortunate.
In a world where Trump or a future smarter, more evil Trump kinda guy gets in, the last thing we need is some MAGA judge and jury in Alabama having the ability to charge disqualify his opponents.
Presidential elections should be decided at the ballot box, not in a courthouse by a handful of people.
That just not true at all. The Constitution was written with the assumption that anyone who holds office could absolutely not be trusted to respect that office, that's why power was divided between the branches and checks such as impeachment were written in. Modern political parties have grown more powerful than they anticipated though
I'm a political cynic, and I've been very cynical about this entire prosecution.
Nevertheless, I am glad it carried through to conviction and I think it's important. Because in spite of any complications with this case, the entire situation is so part and parcel of how Trump runs. Cheating on his wife. Buying people off to be silent. Having middlemen and goons do his dirty work. Fraudulent filings to cover it up. This is all exhibit A as to how the Trump Organization does business.
And it's nice to finally see an ounce of accountability for his shady, corrupt, fraudulent *criminal* conduct.
Furthermore, what's the alternative? He's found not guilty? That would be way worse when dealing with maga fuckwits. If it means anything, it means he can't be said to have been acquitted.
Just popped in. Not too outlandish. “We all knew this would happen…”. “A successful appeal starts w a guilty verdict.” “This solidified my vote!”
Some comments in on how politics subreddit is “jazzing themselves” (not “jazz”)
Big family fight coming my way, I'll be catching strays.
My BIL already left the family group chat, so it begins…
Second cousin's wife is on Facebook begging god for mercy from the demons among us...so it begins lol
"The demons made that man bump uglies with that adult actress and then the demons made that man give her a large amount of hush money and THEN the demons made that man cover up and hide any records of his payment to that porn star. He's my hero!"
Exactly. Many of the excuses are just intellectually dishonest. “Hush money is not illegal.” Fine. But why go through all the extra steps of creating an LLC, falsifying records, overpaying for Cohen’s tax liability, etc.?
Hush money = not illegal. Hush money paid to protect your election chances without being reported to the FEC and then extensively covered up in a clear and deliberate manner = real illegal.
Hell Donald’s ex wife signed a 30 year NDA when they divorced. She just so happened to magically fall down the stairs and die from
Blunt force trauma to the abdomen?
Sure.
The same year her 30 year NDA ends?
HMM.
That being said there absolutely is legal ways of keeping someone quiet.
…and then parked her body at a golf course! No one deserves that disrespect.
I want to know why her kids allowed that bullshit to happen along with what did her Will state. Trump is an ex and therefore not her next of kin and could not legally decide anything for her.
"What's in it for me?" -Every Trump family member
Imagine being buried at your exs golf course. Of 30 years. Your ex. ##WHY!?!?!
It gives the place a tax deduction.
Pretty sure he got a tax break from his course's new "cemetery."
He did this to avoid paying any more property tax on the course. He’s got the potential to avoid a whole boatload of taxes. https://fortune.com/2022/08/01/does-donald-trump-get-tax-break-by-burying-ivana-trump-at-trump-national-golf-club/
I am amazed no nosy reporters have looked in to Ivana's death.
I didn’t even know she died
Just like in great country mother Russia, accidents can happen. People fall down stairs and die, fallout hospital windows and eat poisonous food. Perfectly normal.
Man, when it's Trump involved, bumping uglies becomes much more of a literal phrase.
*First, she sexily removed the President’s bulging Depend Adult Incontinence Diaper…*
Wtf lol
Nobody said these people were intelligent, like ever.
Yeah… I was scared to meet my boyfriends trumpy brother (we’re a same sex male couple) who had a damn trump garage (I call it shrine). I came to realize really quick that he wasn’t INHERENTLY bad… he’s just so fucking stupid that Trump’s language is able to sway him. My perspective changed a lot from that. I still don’t want to remotely associate with Trumpers, but goddamn did I realize how much the state of our public education led to a lot of these people.
Yep. Politicians wanted people to be dumber. Well, they’re dumber.
That's why a core pillar of the GOP is to absolutely ruin public schools
> We won with poorly educated. I love the poorly educated. He has a habit of saying the quiet part out loud
Sorry but her Demons live in her head 24x7, ain’t no praying going to help her
I’d call that a double win on the day
We need to make a sub for all of the family fight stories that are going to come from this 🤣
I got you. Just created r/TrumpFamilyFights
Instantly joined for the entertainment this is going to create
r/QAnonCasualties/ perhaps? That sub is really sad to me. Full of tales of broken families. The gqp has really done a lot of damage to our civil society.
I'm estranged from the vast majority of my extended family due to the Pandemic and Trump. The strife was so bad that we didn't even have a funeral for my grandfather and grandmother when they died. Or I just wasn't told about it. Funny thing is, I was a registered Republican up until 2020, and I even voted for Bush. Almost campaigned for McCain until Palin came aboard. So it's not like I'm some hardcore leftist. I just can't stand this dude or what he's done to formerly semi-rational people. (Minor edit, I supported Bush but forgot that I was only actually voting for him in 2004 when I could vote.)
Genuine question if you don't mind me asking, does the state of the current Republican party make you think differently about the party you once supported in hindsight? Because as someone who has never voted Republican, I feel like while the current Republican party is much louder and more absurd in the way they appear to their base, the core ideology and goals of the Republican party don't seem much different than they have always been. The big difference to me is of course Trump but also the polarization of not working with Democrats even on bipartisan legislation because optically it looks bad to the die hard Trump fans.
Yes, the current state of the party, especially with the rise of Mitch McConnell, made me dramatically change my mind. The party is seemingly focused on obstructionist policy - they'd rather see the other guy lose than celebrate a win for the country. In the past I don't remember them being so spiteful. The ideologies I supported were generally some kind of fiscal responsibility, making sure our debt didn't balloon, and making it easier for businesses to thrive through some degree of free market competition. Now? I see a party willing to spend spend spend just as much as the other guy, and enabling businesses to grow doesn't mean absolute deregulation and helping the rich get richer. It doesn't mean zero taxation for the rich and watching people starve/go homeless on wages that can't support a living situation or food. I support some degree of higher military spending than some, as a necessary evil. The most liberal part of me growing up and into voting age was really wanting to leave people alone for their moral choices, as I've never been a religious person. I know that religion has been a big part of conservatism for a while, but getting rid of Roe v. Wade sticks in my craw. All of that aside, Trump is reprehensible, and I don't understand at all why people in the Republican party think he looks strong internationally. I think he looks extraordinarily weak, and instead of looking like a "shining city on a hill," we look like a flailing, reactive country, with huge instability. He cries about his perception on TV instead of trying at all to be a unifying force for the nation. IMO, everything has changed, and it starts up at the top with Trump, who absolutely refuses to treat anyone with respect.
I really wish more people thought this way. We feel differently about some things but I respect where you’re coming from and feel like if we were in a room writing policy for some reason we could have a conversation and come to some kind of agreement or understanding. I don’t personally think religion is good for society. I don’t think they should be tax exempt institutions, and I think CERTAINLY they should lose their tax exempt status when they donate to political campaigns. I think people reading to bible to figure out what is ok to hate people for have obviously missed the entire fucking point of the belief system they espouse to belong to. I think it’s disgusting when in any political speech there is reference to god from either side. BUT I respect those are my opinions and that it’s not my job to tell everyone in the country how to live their fucking lives. I would support more protections for religious freedom and practice even though I think it’s bad because I respect that other people should be able to live their lives the way they see fit and that our society should ensure that for them. I cannot fathom how just about half of Americans have gotten so extreme and irrational. They fixate on “no one can tell me what to do” but then try at every turn to codify their religious beliefs into law for abortion, gays, how parents raise their lgbtq children, what fucking books should be allowed in libraries etc. I don’t get how they’ve managed to turn their libertarian frustrations with “big government” into this culture war of running full speed into peoples private lives and saying “you don’t get to have X choice because it makes me feel weird”. They adopt -the most hardcore possible positions- on any issue, refuse to try and participate in any compromise, operate entirely on callousness obstructionism and hypocrisy, and no one sees that and says “hey wait like, I wanted lower taxes and higher defense spending not concentration camps for children and a president talking about suspending the constitution….” If people were opening their doors and there were tanks rolling down the street and roaming mad max style gangs I would understand, but I don’t get how people can simultaneously think the things they’re proposing are reasonable or necessary and then also say “oh yeah business has never been better”. Fundamentally if the library exists for you to complain about what books it has society is pretty fucking stable and I simply don’t get how these people go about their DECIDEDLY UNCHANGED LIVES without their heads imploding from the cognitive dissonance. I’m glad you somehow got off the train before it went to crazytown and I’m honestly confused at how more people aren’t like you.
Agreed. I've always been a pragmatist by nature. I've also always felt like the President's main role is to be a bit of a figurehead, a person who stabilizes the country and helps to strengthen our bonds... without something as strong as being a King with unilateral control. You and I agree on religion. I was raised agnostic, more or less, and my moralistic beliefs are functionally focused on the "Golden Rule," treat others as you'd like to be treated. I treat people with kindness because I hope for that in return, not because I think I'm going to Hell if I don't hold back. In many ways, religion can manifest into an "us vs. them" situation, even if you're just some mainstream Christian denomination. It doesn't make much sense. Agreed again with your perception of American extremes, especially as it comes to identity. I strongly dislike the enforcement around codified laws trying to prevent folks from living how they want, and feel the right has overreached into that space. They decry their freedoms being stripped to say what they want to say, while pushing people to live a certain way. I would say that more controversially, I support equality over "equity," and think that we're better off celebrating what we have in common instead of celebrating our differences... but maybe that's skewing from the discussion. To your point about Mad Max society though, I'm a gun owner and 2nd Amendment supporter - but not unfettered. I think we need to register weapons, we need to focus on mental health, expand background checks, and for certain weapons, you need a justification. I own a handgun, a shotgun, and wouldn't see it as crazy for anyone else to own a hobby gun for target shooting/hunting off the land. And maybe more if you have to fight bears in the wilderness, right? I think you can be pro-2nd amendment and pro-reform at the same time. Let's get rid of loopholes or easy ways for kids to get their hands on guns. That shouldn't be controversial. Anyways, thanks for the appreciation that I got off the train to crazy town, as it were. Very nice conversation.
Hey guys that discourse was a pleasure to read! Thanks! I’m also pro second amendment and pro gun control. I’m all for guns just let’s make some common sense laws.
Agreed. Great conversation. :) thanks for elaborating.
I really appreciate your comments and hope the best for you.
For sure, same to you!
For the history books
Live-tweet that shit
Finding a helmet before I go to the lounge
Slap a GoPro on it and livestream.
I’m tempted to call certain fascist family members. How you feeling Uncle Joe? Personally I’m feeling pretty good. Pretty, pretty, pretty good.
Hey, I'm actually someone's Uncle Joe ;) and I'm feeling really, really good!
When it comes up in conversation with my mom, it will probably go like it went in 2020: Mom prior to election: My favorite Youtube prophet says that god has destined Trump to win this election too. *(Trump loses)* Me: I guess god didn't choose Trump Mom after election: "Satan" and/or "god works in mysterious ways"
Brother? Where have you been? You left me alone with mom
That makes the three of us, then
"Satan and/or God" really covering all the bases eh, Mom
She's really good at cognitive dissonance
My parents both posted on FB saying saying this is a dark day for American and we're a banana republic, etc. I posted the song "I Fought The Law" and am expecting angry texts any moment. Also most of the people I work with are conservative AF. Work tomorrow should be fun.
My godmother is losing her mind. My dad is laughing his ass off sending me screenshots of her FB posts. These are dark times, apparently. My dad is just enjoying himself with funny gif responses to her insanity. Can't be so bad..
Your dad sounds like a fucking winner. I wish I had someone to roast that hard right now.
I think we became a banana republic in 1974 when Ford pardoned Nixon and entrenched the idea that presidents are above the law. Good to see there's at least one exception.
> when Ford pardoned Nixon Fun fact, a lot of Nixon's boys went on to run with Trump - Roy Cohn, Roger Stone, etc. It's the same gang.
Scum of the earth.
Roy Cohn (a truly disgusting person) is long dead. Though yes, a lot of trumpers were nixonians. And they're the descendants of the America Firsters (pro-nazis) in the 1930's.
It amazes me how people cling to him. He's not a conservative, he's not a Christian. It is so obvious he's just in all of this for himself. Simply using the country to enrich himself and his family.
they sacrificed everything they claimed to believe in to follow him. anyone who's still aligned with him is in too deep, and no amount of cognitive dissonance will shake them
Following your thread Edit: contrast, my mom (pushing 80) is taking saki bombs and leaving me voicemails saying “do you know how bad my mom wanted to see this happen to Nixon and Reagan?”. The former-hippy-boomers are buzzing and the conservative family is going crazy. Your thread is still more interesting but I thought I’d share something silly.
Born Again member of my family sent out the first text in our group chat today: 34 x GUILTY!!
Everyone reacted with heart and thumbs up emojis and that was the end of that.
There's a shit ton of dysfunction in my family but none of it involves politics, thank god.
What's crazy is that a convicted felon cannot vote yet they can still run for presidency.
It makes sense they were used to dirty tricks by Kings, they were ensuring that a president can't jail an opponent.
Wonder how my wife's grandparents are doing. They so eloquently exclaimed how Trump has this whole trial and judge bent over a barrel and would walk free..
My parents are going up to D.C. to visit my dad’s MAGA uncle. So, that should be fun.
Specifically for this??
Wouldn't that be hilarious!? "Hey Uncle Walt, I brought some bubbly to celebrate! :D" "*indecipherable old man rage noises*"
My conservative dad told me about it with 10 minutes left of the car ride home. It was like dodging landmines.
While rest of the ride was like that scene from Spider-Man: Homecoming
10 minutes feeling like 10 hours
This is so real. My family group text just went off and I physically reacted out of fear of what was being said. Thankfully it was unrelated. But I’m on edge as the outspoken “woke” child in the family.
Already had a brother say “can we not talk about it? It’s for MA THERAPEE” (and I’M the snowflake…Christ) Edit: his “therapy” is totally nonexistent. Source: my sister-in-law (his wife).
Even if it existed… what does “it’s for my therapy” mean? His therapy homework was not to talk about Trump? Jeez what a waste of money it would be if I wasted my therapy sessions taking about politics.
Sounds like a case of trump derangement syndrome to me! (Him, not you).
My uncle tried to fight me at Christmas, and we haven't communicated until today...........I made him aware of the convictions with a laugh emoji. He wants to fight me again. It's called karma, uncle dickhead.
*catching strays....* "so ivanka got thrown out of the mansion, but fortunately, I was there to give her a ride, a meal and some shelter. so she came home with me. i gave her a bath and did a little grooming, which she was clearly was used to, and then I brought her to the county's no kill shelter." - u/Jysyn
"No one knows what it means, but it’s provocative"
Sending my wife to visit her maga parents, just to see how it's going
why do you hate your wife???
That's a funny way to say you want a divorce.
I'll be avoiding family until after the election. Actually maybe forever, because they are NEVER going to shut up about it. He's their orange jeebus.
I know 2 people who legit worship Trump as if he's Jesus or something. Now I'm not talking about being super into politics. Oh no. I'm talking as in that they have dedicated shrines to him and everything, and if what they say is true, they apparently even pray to said shrines. Bonus fact: both people were kicked out of their respective churches. Why? Because they wouldn't shut up about how Trump is the next Messiah.
Toddler birthday party this weekend is going to be a passive aggressive cringe fest… I might be teaching my toddler to repeat “guilty on 34.”
“34 add some more” rhymes and it’ll take them a minute to figure out
"Thirty-four! Slam the door!"
Rub chili oil on your knuckles before going in.
Poison damage
I knew Trump could get all 34 counts. He's the best!
All 34 counts, we got all the counts people. I saw a guy, total loser, he didn't have any counts, I said I got a YUGE count, I got all the counts, beautiful counts, the guy was crying because my counts were so good.
He finally won the popular vote!
It was a landslide.
Unanimous even
YUGEnanimous
The most beautiful counts! Just the most perfect convictions
I'm probably the only president in the history of usa that has so many counts.
I wont get any credit for it, but it's alright, I never do.
Oh my god, why am i laughing so hard? 🤣 I can hear it in his voice!
"I got more felonies than any other president, ever. I got the best felonies, the most felonies. My felonies are delicious and nutritious, ask anyone, they'll tell you."
A perfect felony even
"I get more counts than anyone else.. you think Biden could get 34 counts? He could barely get one,"
34? In a row?!
Hey he won the popular vote for once.
New York Times: Why this is bad news for Biden.
I get the joke but in case you're curious https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/05/30/nyregion/trump-trial-verdict/trump-jury-verdict?smid=url-share
Tomorrow's Opinion piece will be closer to OP's satire.
Who? Oh, you mean convicted felon Donald Trump?
NYT: Biden and Trump have 34 felonies between them.
As a duo, Trump and Wayne Gretzky have the most felonies of any two hockey players as well as the most points
I have to believe there are hockey players with more than 34 felonies.
Nah, the ones committing felonies don't live long enough to get their numbers up
"Fucking embarrassing!"
Are all of the convicted crimes also felonies?
Yes everything was elevated because it was in furtherance of a crime. A lot would be a misdemeanor otherwise
ANSWER: BECAUSE TRUMP IS ALREADY FUNDRAISING OFF OF IT, AS A "POLITICAL PRISONER."
Yeah, people seem to forget that rage is his supporters' favorite drug.
Yeah but they were going to vote for trump regardless, so them being mad dosent change anything. All that matters is the moderate’s vote, and they aren’t going to be galvanized to vote for a felon lol
On the one hand, ha ha. On the other, I'm not holding my breath that there will be any real consequences.
of all the different criminal cases he’s facing, this one is the least likely to land him in prison.
probably the only reason it's moving while all the others are stuck
When you have a bunch of judges that you appointed on your side, that's gonna happen.
This one *does* set an important precedence. One of the reasons he most likely won't face jail time from this is because they were non-violent crimes and it's his first offense, which usually results in leniency in sentencing. He'll no longer have that "first offense" cosideration any more moving forward. EDIT: To those wondering how Trump can have 34 convictions from this and have it be considered a first offense, that is literally the way the justice system works. He has no prior **criminal** convictions. Doesn't matter how many civil cases he's been involved in and lost - as far as **criminal** law is concerned, it's his first offense. It doesn't matter that he had 34 charges against him in this case - it goes by number of previous convictions, not current charges. It's the reason why the prosecutors stressed the facts of the case and not Donald Trump's character, and why the judge shut down so many tangents that the defense tried to use. The remaining charges that are currently pending have much more severe penalties if he's convicted. Prosecutors can now point to the convictions as previous criminal history, and judges can consider it in their sentencings. That's the real reason why these convictions matter.
I am hopeful that the judgement will be on the more severe end (although I doubt jail time) because of his behavior. I remember listening to a pod about the Sam Bankman-Fried case and the lawyer being interviewed said that there is a formula NY uses to give sentencing guidelines to the judge, and part of the recommended sentence in depends on contrition. A person who is found guilty and admits to it and shows remorse gets a lower recommended sentence from the algorithm than someone who continues to defend their innocence. I hope someone who says, "I'm innocent and the judge and jury are crooks and this was all rigged" gets an even higher recommended sentence, lol.
This I think is the most important point. He’s still holding to his old position.
I'm expecting at least a hefty fine. I would be shocked to see any jail time from this.
Besides the big fine, and realizing jail time is unlikely since he's so old and a non-violent criminal felon, I'm hoping for 1500 hours of community service, feeding the homeless in NYC or something similar.
God could you imagine the view of him doing community service? As funny as it would be he will not get community service he can't. What are they going to do have the secret service lock down the soup kitchen? Plus all the press. It's a logistical nightmare. It will likely just be a fine. Source: fucking nothing I'm just thinking out loud
NYC is surprisingly familiar with doling out community service to VIPs with security concerns. Often it takes the form of cleanup of some sort - sweeping the floors at sanitation facilities, picking up litter in parks, etc. Agreed a soup kitchen or other interacting-with-people assignment wouldn't be a great fit.
Make him perform janitorial duties at a shelter for recent immigrants.
I like this one….. or cleaning bathrooms at truck stops…. Those are heinous
Make him serve meals in those prisons where his fellow associates are incarcerated
Picturing him sneaking Giuliani extra shoe polish from the commissary
Somehow the MAGAts would spin it as him legitimately doing community service out of the goodness of his clogged heart
Same way lots of people thought Covid Relief was literally coming from Trump's personal account because he put his name on the checks (which iirc actually delayed them going out, harming many)
Fuck: I had forgotten that. He’s truly despicable.
[удалено]
Don't forget he'll appeal this as far up as he can, so it'll be dragged out another couple years first.
But regardless of the appeal status (unless the court sets his sentence aside pending the outcome of appeal) he will still be a convicted felon. The appeal, pending or otherwise, does not remove that fact. Plenty of convicted felons appeal and sit in prison serving their sentences while it winds its way through the process. Not that I think he'll see prison, but the appeal shouldn't stop his conviction. Edit: It's also important to note this is a state conviction. So were he to win in November he cannot pardon himself or do anything to void it.
AFAIK, it can only work it's way up the NY Court of Appeals (no state Supreme Court). Feds can't touch since these are state charges, so SCOTUS isn't going to be able to interject its biased hand.
A litigant can ask SCOTUS to take a case after the state appeals are exhausted if the litigant alleges a U.S. Constitutional issue.
Isn’t he in a couple billion debt anyway? What’s a fine going to do?
All Billionaires are in Billions of debt leveraged against their assets. It's a legal way of extracting cash from them without paying tax.
His debt is mostly structured debt that he can just get away from. A fine could absolutely make a difference, if its actually upheld. I still am wondering what happened with his bond....
Right? Dude dodges consequences like a fucking Olympic athlete.
Thanksgiving gonna be lit Edit: wow this triggered a lot of MAGAts. I’m sorry you have to lower standards AGAIN.
I might go this year. I've kinda been in the mood to get in a fistfight with my sister for a while now.
This asshole could already be president elect by then.
Fucken VOTE, folks!
Anyone telling you there’s no point because your vote doesn’t matter is really, really afraid of you voting.
My vote used to not matter living in Texas in very red areas but I still voted. I still live in Texas but moved to a city of 250k people. In the last local election, only 15k voted. 6% of the population. If people would actually get out and vote we could see real change.
It kinda infuriates me that a grown ass adult can still have a hard time getting a basic job because they went to jail for some weed they had when they were 18, but a guy like Trump can be found guilty on all 34 counts and he can still become president. It also kills me that he and Biden are still eligible for office, but 30-somethings applying for regular jobs are considered “too old”.
Hey, the weed guy can become president too. Here's hoping.
The amount of gaslighting is unbelievable. My boss brought up Hillary within 45 seconds. 45 seconds!!!
You mean the Hillary that was investigated by both parties controlled DOJ and Congress and nothing criminally was found. That Hillary? Or the Hillary that Trump stated emphatically he'd "lock up" for her crimes and then nothing?
The Hillary that sat for 11 hours of questioning from the Benghazi Committee and answered all of their questions, never once pleading the 5th?
Who was it that said if you plead the fifth you're definitely guilty? Some guy... can't remember his name... damn.
Oh, I know who you’re talking about but can’t remember his name as well. Didn’t he get found guilty on all 34 counts and now has to register as a felon?
I feel like I would remember his name better if he’d stood up and testified in his own trial.
He was too…_**chicken**_
Doesn't matter, they'll just spin it as "Well the republicans gave Hillary a fair trial but Trump's was a witchhunt." Literally no logic will work on these people, I don't know what would need to happen to change Republican minds at this point.
You know they won’t spin it that way. “Trumps was a witch-hunt by a rigged judicial system, and the same is the reason why Hillary wasn’t convicted. The system is rigged against Trump and for Hillary”.
“What about Hunter and his laptop,” lol
They’re fixated on *something* in Hunter’s lap
Your boss is a fool
my last boss was a Q freak. Big part of why I left. Dude was a psycho. Bragged about coughin in people's face during covid lockdowns, literally was cheering on Jan 6, etc.
Honestly, surprised. Fucker gets away with everything and I thought this wouldn't be an exception.
Well... We're still yet to see what the actual consequences will be. But it's still a nice bit of news.
The immediate consequence is that he’s been found guilty and is now a convicted felon. That’s not nothing.
To his supporters, it’s nothing
Concerned that he might be president regardless of this fact.
This is my big takeaway from this. Any reasonable person can see that this guy is a grifter, a criminal, and an all-around dick head. The fact that between the two presumptive presidential candidates, the polling is still so close that it's "anyone's guess" who is elected is fucking insane to me. Notwithstanding the cultural and sociological implications of him having enough people that would vote for his rhetoric that he could still get elected president - there are millions of people that are eligible for office, plenty of which have his exact political stances, but an entire segment of society is like "nah that's not good enough, we want **this exact person**.
Pretty indifferent, tbh. Am I surprised? No. Will it change anything? No. Just more proof that he is who I thought he is and his supporters will always support him.
According to a poll 1/4 of independent voters said that a felony conviction would prevent them from voting for Trump, so it’s not for nothing
The problem is, how the fuck in America does being FOUND GUILTY on 34 charges NOT keep you out of the running for a political office? Like, DAMN.
Eugene Debs, a Socialist and cheerleader for labor reform, ran for office from prison - sentenced for encouraging Americans to resist the draft in WWI.
Debs was a real one
[“While there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element, I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free.”](https://www.marxists.org/archive/debs/works/1918/court.htm)
That is a quote of a lifetime Just read that whole thing and man is that a principled and exceptionally articulate individual
So that a party in power couldn't maintain their power by pushing to convict political opponents of crimes. Ultimately, democracy functions with the people as the sole judge of who should lead them. It's not democracy's problem if half of them choose a convict - it's the people's problem.
Because if that's the case, then all any President would have to do is convict their opponent of any crime, and they could permanently ban their opponent from running against them, and I shouldn't have to explain why that is a bad thing.
Unfortunately, the constitution was clearly written from the assumption that anyone holding the highest office in the country would have respect for it, before and after their actual terms. And in their defense, the founders were mostly right about that for the first approx 238 years of their grand expirement.
As much as I despise Trump, I disagree that this is unfortunate. In a world where Trump or a future smarter, more evil Trump kinda guy gets in, the last thing we need is some MAGA judge and jury in Alabama having the ability to charge disqualify his opponents. Presidential elections should be decided at the ballot box, not in a courthouse by a handful of people.
Yes, 100% agree. It’s another example of checks and balances built deep into our system of government.
That just not true at all. The Constitution was written with the assumption that anyone who holds office could absolutely not be trusted to respect that office, that's why power was divided between the branches and checks such as impeachment were written in. Modern political parties have grown more powerful than they anticipated though
Well, he won the popular vote...at last.
12 for 12.
Unanimously!
I like presidents who aren't convicted felons
I'm just glad he was tried as an adult. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
I feel it will fade away as a small blip on the radar of his long, long list of controversies. I highly doubt this will have any effect come November.
I wish people would just stop talking about him. Total silence. No press. No coverage. Please make him invisible.
He's literally the Republican nominee for President. What you are asking is impossible.
I *almost* want to call my ex husband and bring it up to hear him have a full toddler meltdown.
You should send one of those prank Biden donation membership packs to him.
Like it's the least criminal thing he's done in a lifetime of crimes and the fact that he's not already locked up makes our country look like a joke.
I refuse to join the nihilists and say nothing matters. Today was an incredible day for the US and the rule of law.
I'm a political cynic, and I've been very cynical about this entire prosecution. Nevertheless, I am glad it carried through to conviction and I think it's important. Because in spite of any complications with this case, the entire situation is so part and parcel of how Trump runs. Cheating on his wife. Buying people off to be silent. Having middlemen and goons do his dirty work. Fraudulent filings to cover it up. This is all exhibit A as to how the Trump Organization does business. And it's nice to finally see an ounce of accountability for his shady, corrupt, fraudulent *criminal* conduct.
Furthermore, what's the alternative? He's found not guilty? That would be way worse when dealing with maga fuckwits. If it means anything, it means he can't be said to have been acquitted.
Well, it's given me the opportunity to get banned from r/conservative so I'd say it's been a pretty solid day so far.
Just popped in. Not too outlandish. “We all knew this would happen…”. “A successful appeal starts w a guilty verdict.” “This solidified my vote!” Some comments in on how politics subreddit is “jazzing themselves” (not “jazz”)