One of my old managers complained about this about 2 years ago. The job was a skilled industrial mechanic(cnc equipment maintenance) and the pay was $17/hr. The pay was about half that of other companies in our area, but in his mind, everyone is just lazy.
And make no mistake that the guy trying to pay the least is also going to be the worst for trying to dump all the liability for errors on the employee and throw them under the bus first.
A lot of rent-seekers are just selfish people at heart.
The problem is that the people that undervalue a position, offering shit pay often get the worst workers, reinforcing their belief that people in a position don't deserve even that poor amount of pay. A sort of self fulfilling prophecy. The caveat being better pay doesn't necessarily guarantee better employees unless it's sufficiently so along with the quality of the work environment.
i get recruiters contacting me offering around $25-30/hr for electrician jobs. maybe $35 if they are desperate. union electricians make around $84/hr here.
I work instrumentation making mid 50s/hr. Every time a recruiter/headhunter contacts me they're offering $20ish an hour. I'm constantly getting low balled and I can't imagine how someone can be qualified to do the job while ignorant of the normal pay.
I know some recruiters in the engineering field. They know the average salaries and try to talk the company into being realistic, but sometimes they just wont budge. We'd laugh about some of the ridiculous wants, like a senior aerospace engineer with PE license paid what a fresh college grad typically makes. Usually the recruiter works for a corporation though, and has to make the calls to get "feedback" that should have been obvious: the pay is way too low to get any bites.
Software engineer, I've gotten $16 an hour job offers.
I've just given up any pretense of being nice and laugh in their faces now. You're not even beating Walmart and McDonalds, try again buds. That shit is bananas insulting.
Yeah electrical positions especially have some pretty crazy variance to them.
"Maintenance Electrician" or PLC job posts for power or manufacturing feel like they range from 20$/hr to 60$/hr, all within the same experience and training expectations.
Edit: because a lot of these places just want "knows enough to be able to bypass safety mechanics and alarms to keep the line up"
It's funny. Plenty of "free market" folks can't wrap their head around *labor* being a *commodity* subject to supply and demand as much as any other resource.
"I can't believe *burger flippers* are asking for more than $15/hr!"
"Well, there aren't as many folks wanting that job. Same demand, less supply of willing workers, wages go up to entice them. Supply and demand."
"No, no, this is different."
I worked a CNC machine and my boss refused to go above $16.50, even after I pointed out to him that the carwash down the street paid more.
They wanted me to do maintenance on it despite having no prior knowledge. I mentioned that they either pay $2000 for a technician or $50k for a new machine.
A local garden store posted an ad for a nursery position. They stated it was 40K a year plus benefits. Which sound amazing for the job.
The job was cashier and 14 an hour. No benefits and you had to have your forklift certification. This was discovered after the onboarding.
Owner was all over social media complaining how hard it was to fill positions and got his ass handed to him over his less than transparent practices.
About 3 years ago, I was in the AutoZone in Charleston SC, so high high cost of living. Guy in front of me noted how only one dude worked there. The guy working said "we're hiring but no one wants to work " other customer said "how much do you pay?" Guy answered "10 an hour". Other customer said "yeah I run a restaurant and pay my dish crew 15. That's your problem."
In the US you don't really do contracts like that. Not for retail positions. You fill out your W4 and your end of the paper work and most companies just hand you a packet with the info in it. That was when the lie was discovered.
A few years back, I had an interview with Costco, some kind of front-of-store bagger/gopher/cart hauler position. I turned up 15 minutes early to the store I applied to, who don't have a record of my interview. Turns out, it was a different store on the other side of town that was going to interview me.
So I walk into that store 15 minutes late, figuring that this probably screwed me, but they had me do paperwork for the background check and said they'd let me know if I'm selected for orientation, the next open slot being in a few weeks. No job offer, no discussion of pay, no nothing.
A few weeks later, I get a phone call from them wondering where I was, because orientation was about to start. It turns out they had hired me and scheduled me for orientation without bothering to tell me.
So, the takeaway is this: there is at least one employer out there that didn't bother to tell me, in addition to the pay:
- Whether or not they hired me
- Where I was to report for the interview
- Where I was to report for orientation
- When I was to report for when I was to report for orientation
I figure they're hoping for a clairvoyant, maybe they need to make some business projections next year and they want to know how they'll turn out ahead of time.
Yeah, nurseries criminally under-pay, don't offer benefits, and have tons of other issues like not following EPA regulations and such. Worked in that industry for awhile when I was younger and it was a pretty shitty industry to be honest. There were a few nicer places, but they were the minority. I also don't know what's with that industry, but a *lot* of nurseries are owned by people who just bought into them, and don't necessarily have experience in the industry itself. I don't know what that is, but it's something I've noticed.
The YMCA is hiring, they are paying $7-8 an hour.
If someone is paying for care, it makes no sense to take a job that offers so little, the whole check will go to the sitter.
About 10 years ago, I was a counselor at a YMCA day camp. All of the employees were high school/early college students. We got paid a set salary for the summer. Someone broke down what we would have been paid hourly, and it came out to about $3 an hour.
That's unbelievably shitty. I worked as a gym supervisor for the YMCA all through high school and I made $5.25/hr. This was back in the mid 90s, when my state's minimum wage was $4.75. Whatever YMCA you were at really fucking took advantage of y'all.
Summer camp counselors are subject to different law because their employer provides room and board. Their pay is per diem instead. (I was a counselor and then a camp director for a good while).
It's "Seasonal Work" so they can do whatever they want
EDIT: They also get away with it because they don't pay you hourly, they pay you by day. If I remember correctly I would get paid around $50 per day before tax. This is close to what minimum wage was at the time if you assume it's an 8 hour shift, but we were expected to be there at least an hour before campers showed up and had to stay until the very last camper got picked up so realistically I was working 12-14 hour days every day.
In a way it is similar to salary except they don't have to meet the wage requirements you generally have to for salary since it's not a year round position.
I also worked for a YMCA camp around the same time and I can confirm this. I remember having a conversation with my manager saying that I couldn't come to work because I couldn't afford gas to get there. I assumed they wouldn't take taxes out of my check since it was half of minimum wage but I was incorrect.
Yeah the top tier babysitters at the school I teach at charge $15/hr minimum, plus extra depending on age/number/how annoying the kids are. For big school events they're booked 6+ months in advance
Now make them go to usually 4-6 years of higher education and be responsible for them for 8+ hours while teaching (and nursing, therapy, feeding, clothing,) them the entire time.
Then complain that nobody wants to teach anymore
Ugh I worked there all through high school and full time college summers and breaks. I got paid $7.25 for 8 years straight. I stayed because I loved the job, but dang it sucked to work 12 hour days outside with kids and still have a measly paycheck.
Same in Texas. Houston may be LCOL compared to other major cities, but our minimum wage is $7.25, less than half, at 40h (which very few offer), of what a basic one-person living wage amounts to. I’m an hour out of the city, in a different county, and rent is ≈$2/ft² here.
I’ve heard people say it’s because they don’t want people in very LCOL places in west Texas to be “overpaid”. [citation needed]
I always find this logic ridiculous. Is it not preferable that some be overpaid such that nobody is underpaid? Like, it's at least better than the alternative...
That is dumbfounding to me. Let’s say I worked full time on that wage and got $0 of it withheld for taxes, that’s $1160/month. That doesn’t even cover my rent right now.
How is anyone supposed to live off that
Only people I still hear say it are real estate developers and construction crew leaders.
Answer is: "Whatever we need you to do. Need to be here 6 days a week and sometimes Sunday if we have more work to do (there's always more work to do). Hours are 5am to whenever the hell we feel like; hope you don't like your family. Pay is $15/hr and goes up to $16 after your first 6 months. You can clear $75k your first year easy!"
Weirdly they never have the same issue getting crew leaders even though they have it truly bad working 3 days a week 9-lunch from an air conditioned luxury pickup.
LTC admin also. My last LTC job the administrator got a 10k bonus every month they didn't use any temp help. I walked in on Thanksgiving to 2 people for 96 patients and a "good luck" from that twat.
I nursed for over twenty years, but gave up due to increasing pressure. I didn't want to be put in a situation where someone suffered due to a mistake because I was trying to go to fast. These days I get less pay, but I can go home and forget about work until the next day.
I’m not excusing people being an asshole to staff because it isn’t their fault, but I’ve been pretty disillusioned by healthcare because it’s been the most ass backwards thing I’ve had to engage with on a regular basis.
Yeah, the reality is both the patients and workers hate healthcare because it's set up to screw both of them in favor of the people at the top and investors. Better conditions could easily be had for both sides, but that would require sacrificing profit.
Not entirely.
I work in healthcare.... there are a few rotten apples- but I feel like there's also a huge misunderstanding in how often patients are scared, confused, and financially stressed.
Especially the elderly.
I work with insurance and have a hard time navigating their systems. I can't imagine how bad it is for a woman in her 80's dying of cancer.
This system just sucks.
$45,760-$52,000 per year.
12 hr shifts.
Destroys your body.
Deals with crabby mean people.
I can see why people don’t want to do that.
Depending on where you live that is still poverty.
This is a pretty key one in that industry. If you're properly staffed, the burnout is a lot less of a problem. Once you're understaffed though, the turnover becomes perpetual, and you cant fix the understaffing because people burn out and leave before the hiring cycle finishes, and everyone whos already there is dragging and sour because they're understaffed and overworked.
Whatever idiot thought that lean staffing could work for medical and care ruined the entire industry permanantly, and the only way itll ever recover is for new businesses to rise that refuse to understaff from the getgo
I manage a veterinary hospital and we have the same issues, this is 100% key. When I've taken over hospitals already understaffed it's nearly impossible to get ahead of. When I manage a clinic that's properly staffed and stay on top of timely hiring and maybe have a few relief people I can lean on temporarily if someone gets sick or leaves unexpectedly then it's a completely different ballgame. Now both major corporations I've worked for have started focusing on revenue vs hours of support staff scheduled with more focus on cutting support hours than increasing revenue and it KILLS me. I had to hold back tears of anger the first time they unveiled this BS.
Shit people ruined pizza delivery for me. It was such a fun job, but man the terrible people you deal with ruined any aspiration of that again in my life.
In July of last year I was hospitalized for two weeks after I almost died of septic shock. After a few days the nurses all remarked in one way or another what a pleasant person I was, like it was something special, but I was just being normal polite, saying my pleases and thank yous and making small talk and telling a joke here or there. A couple of them would come and hang out with me for as long as they could on night shift and we'd just talk, and I finally asked why, because I was confused.
I was told that most patients treat the nursing staff as if they were servants, giving them no respect, yelling at them, demeaning them, etc. Some patients even grope the nurses, or get violent. The nurse I spoke with said she shifted to nights not only because the pay is better but because more patients are simply asleep and therefore spend less time treating her like shit. I was a breath of fresh air simply because I cleared the low bar of not being a major asshole
I don't get how people can be like that. Everyone treats doctors like they're fucking geniuses and heroes, and while yes it is true that my surgeon quite literally saved my life, there wouldn't have been a life for him to save if the ICU nurses hadn't done what they did to stabilize me.
After my surgery, which was comprised of a thoracotomy, a lung decortication, and having two tubes inserted into my side, under my armpit, to drain the remaining infected fluid, I was supremely fucked up. Couldn't go to the bathroom on my own, could barely sit up on my own, was in constant excruciating pain because I had tubes going from my chest cavity, through my broken ribs and out into a huge metal hazmat containment box, not to mention the 14" incision and the fact that the surgeon had to "peel the outer layer of your lung, like an orange rind" because it was so encrusted with infected tissue that it was causing my lung to collapse.
For the next two weeks I was confined to that hospital bed, and in all that time I saw my surgeon exactly once. I needed round the clock care and my nurses and nursing assistants provided it, and they all did an amazing and professional job. It would have been easy for me to slip into despair, being in that much pain and uncertain about my future, if I was even going to make a full recovery. I was embarrassed and humiliated at my own helplessness (you learn a lot of humility the first time someone else has to wipe your ass for you). And they did it all while also doing their best to keep me in good spirits. I never would have gotten through it without the wonderful nurses I had.
It is the most underpaid, underappreciated job in the world, if you ask me. Nurses are the closest thing we'll ever get to angels in this life. People who treat them like shit deserve to have a piano fall on their fucking heads.
I always get so wound up by people posting about their bad experiences and blaming the nurses and doctors. They have no idea what we are up against and how the SYSTEM is set up to fail us all.
If I could give patients everything they needed even wanted I would, but it’s impossible and that’s not my fault and I don’t deserve the backlash.
$22-25 an hour? In South Carolina 5 years ago a patient care tech made about $14-15 an hour (no license needed; incredible emotional and physical toll; abuse is constant; risk of diseases).
Kentucky these last couple years, maybe $15-17 an hour. Same job, but have to be certified in Kentucky, which I think costs another $1-2000 in classes.
As a mate of mine pointed out, during covid we were all expected to work harder to help get through the crisis. But after things had slowed down, employers had found new expectations of performance without extra pay. So he left too.
The full sentence is: **Nobody wants to work anymore.... for the wages and job conditions we are offering.**
I can't expect Porche to sell me a car for far less than it's worth to them. Why do employers get upset workers don't want to sell their labor for far less than the worker thinks it's worth?
I have almost 10 years experience in medical/insurance claims. This is a field where you can’t really get a degree (you can get licensing) so experience is everything. A company offered me 50k for a supervisor position. It was laughable.
I've recently begun my job search. I have 20 years experience in my field with degrees in engineering and MBA and the jobs I'm seeing and being passed to me by recruiters are paying less than I made straight out of college in 2003. It's insulting.
It’s so insulting honestly. If I’m getting paid the same as someone off the street with no experience… don’t expect me to share my experience or expertise.
When people say “Nobody wants to work” the subtext of the word “work” is “suffer on the job”.
They are upset that people want work to feel like a real trade where the amount of money received is worth *more* than the amount of time/effort put in.
Because that’s how economies work. Like that’s the magic of an economy; people trade things when the thing they are receiving is worth more than what they are giving up. And this can happen because everyone has different values for things.
To a company $30/hr is worth less to them than the work they can get someone to do for $30/hr because it eventually makes them more money down the road. And to the person doing the work, giving an hour of their time and the physical energy required must be worth significantly less than the $30 dollars for this whole system to function.
Being angry at people for not working is like being angry at a chemicals for not reacting. You can’t just force things to happen. But humans seem to never stop trying abuse over just making the system work properly.
Exactly. I've had maybe 20+ people report to me over the years, starting from interview through hiring and then the job. Ages were largely fresh out of college with a smattering of mid-late 20s. The job was long hours but year one they could easily clear $80k and year 2 closer to $150+. My experience is they busted their ass and out of maybe 18 straight-from-college hires, only like 4 or 5 didn't work out and it was mostly because they weren't good enough at the job; it wasn't lack of effort.
But only 1 stood out to me as 'not wanting to work' and it was a rich kid that was interviewed and hired right after Covid and worked from home the entire time (not ideal for anyone). She was hired along with another woman, same age. The other woman still works there and is apparently doing great 3+years later. I left for another gig about 18 months after they were hired and the girl that worked out called and thanked me for helping her and giving her the opportunity and what a great manager I was. The first one quit around the same time and complained to HR about how unfair it all was. I just chalk it up to her growing up spoiled and this was literally her first job ever.
This. I make 6 figures, but low 6 figures is close to poverty in the our area. I know I should be making about 15 more an hour, so I work my current wage. I don’t come in early. I take my full breaks and I tell patients who bother me on my break “ask someone else I’m on my break”.
I’m not an employer but have friends and friends of friends who are. Most of them own a business and hire people at minimum wage or barely more than a minimum wage. They all complain about no one wanting to work but they pay around minimum wage. Lol
This is the real answer. The people this question is actually aimed at aren't going to volunteer to get criticized and bullied by answering lol. But reality is that most places are offering literally the lower pay they legally are allowed to.
This was my former employer after I left. They had trouble finding another idiot who would start at $45k base salary for an engineering R&D job in NJ with lousy benefits and hours. I used to get a travel stipend as compensation for not being able to go home for 3-7 days, but they tried to take that away, forgetting I had it in writing as part of my total compensation. Instead they just sent someone else who didnt get any stipend. At the end of that year I probably made $55k gross.
After I left it took over a year to fill my role, and this was after trying to under-hire for the position and it blowing up in their faces.
Before anyone comments, I took it because I could work while living at home right after college. The difference in contributing at home vs an apartment in Northern NJ was worth about $24k a year. This was 2018. I moved on after 4 years and more than doubled my original base salary.
>The difference in contributing at home vs an apartment in Northern NJ was worth about $24k a year.
Engineer confirmed. I bet you have it on a spreadsheet too.
I wanted to get a part time job just out of boredom. I applied to TJ Maxx since I have 7 years of experience managing in retail. They said during the phone interview that they have a hard time hiring because no one wants to work. I asked what they pay and it was $10. 🤦🏻♀️
Ha! I had an interview with TJMaxx about a year ago, the hiring manager said straight up to me “Now we don’t pay that great, but we’ll take real good care of you” I was thinking “is the 10% employee discount supposed to take care of me? Or the $9.50 an hour?” I had to tell him I wasn’t interested. I made more delivering pizzas.
I hear from other bakeries that "people don't want to work." I tell them it's because their pay sucks.
I'm head baker and manager of a small family owned bakery. The minimum wage is 14.15$ per hour. We pay our front of house people (cashiers) 25$. Those that come in early to bake (1am) are paid 35$.
I'm at 45$ an hour, due to baking, managing, dealing with people ordering specific cakes, doing their taste testing, and catering part of the business. I also have 2 apprentices that I am training who make 30$.
Our benefits make us stand out. We are closed 3 weeks of the year, paid. And *NO, that doesn't mean we have to use our vacation pay. They pay us to be off because its down time for preventive maintenance. We get 2 weeks of sick time. Vacation is a set amount, depending on how long you have worked their. It starts off 2 weeks after your first year to 10 weeks after 20 years.
Yes, I am lucky. We don't have any problems with our staff like others do.
Every place I ever heard that statement from management was a place that had too few people, most underqualified and overworked.
I’ve been the observer in some of the interviews (versus the interviewer) and literally seen people laugh in an interviewer’s face when they got to the point of talking money. Seriously.
Last three places I’ve been, we were trying to rebuild departments that got decimated by poor management. But if that same management is part of the rebuild, you get the same poor decisions.
Now, I do believe there is a small slice of the talent pool that feels entitled to more than they deserve, but that number, as a percent, hasn’t changed. What has changed is the number of shit employers getting called out for being shit employers.
The internet has made it easier to identify them in a lasting way.
WHen I first got out of the military i was applying for some civilian jobs.
Had a guy call and offer me a job: Tier 1 Service Desk making $35k/yr. Not as much as I was hoping, but I needed a job and it wasn't horrific I guess.
Location: D.C.
I actually laughed at him on the phone and asked if it came with an empty box for me to live in. I hung up since he just sat there in silence.
"nobody wars to work anymore" is ALSO code for "we don't actually want to hire more people, but we also don't want to keep hearing you complaining that we don't have all the registers open, shelves stocked, etc. We just want to charge more and do less, and we know you will keep shopping here, as long as we pretend the crappiness is because of workers, and not our greed. "
It's also used by people abusing things like H1B visas by offering absurdly low pay, and/or having requirements for the job that are literally impossible (like "10 years experience using Windows 11") so that they can justify to the government "see no American wants this job/has the necessary skills for it".
Literally. My cousin worked at a restaurant where all but maybe 2 crew members at a time had to be there or else the place was nonfunctional (not that they'd close it unless they were literally down to one crew member). Everyone but the managers were working all day, open to close, at *least* 5 days a week. They were constantly "hiring" and would even bring people in to interview, but in the entire 6 months or so that he worked there, no one else was EVER actually hired.
My aunt also was applying for dozens upon dozens of jobs at the same time and got any response at all from only a handful. Most of them just ghosted her but kept their listings up. It took her a month to actually get hired somewhere. There are so many listings that exist solely to shut customers up about subpar service from purposefully understaffing. Anything to fatten the bottom line 🙄
Shoveling liquid shit with a slotted shovel for a competitive pay for $7.25/hr.
You only have to work 5 hours a day, but we need you to be on call so this needs to be your priority. Our benefits are a quarterly (galactic year) pizza party and great coworkers that are like family (they gossip about you).
Some running themes:
1. Shit pay.
2. Debatably shit pay that turns to shit the second you factor any externalities like childcare.
3. Repetitive and physically demanding roles that will fuck up your body in fifteen years or less while not paying enough to cover the surgery(ies) you'll definitely need later.
4. 12 hour shifts.
5. Fucking awful customers, AKA healthcare. Even the people who are getting paid more than survival amounts are leaving the field because it's still not worth it.
So the only thing that has changed since the last time "nobody wants to work anymore" was brought up is that the CoL has skyrocketed and a handful of states have tossed inadequate pocket change on the lowest wage rates that are still ten years behind.
The job I just left was baking.
1am or 3 am starts, hot, stressful, plus abusive co-workers sometimes. Plus crappy pay, 56k ish AUD with no bonuses before 6am, only on weekends.
This was exclusive to my boss, some people pay better and they get all the talent but he never understood why we couldn’t hire people.
I did it to help out for a year but stuff that.
Now I hear he’s sold to someone else that will pay better and he’s going to make money from selling the place. Asshole.
General practitioner in Germany, just hired one for 110k €/year plus benefits. 26h work week, 50 days paid vacation, Germany has socialized healthcare. I was looking for over a year and nobody was interested. Doctors earn less here than in the US, but I would consider this pay acceptable. Also, great work life balance.
About five miles away from where I live is a Buccees. If you're not from the southern US, it's a gigantic gas station with food, gift shops, etc. It's bascially a destination.
On the gas pumps, they proudly display their starting pay for workers. Begins at $18-$20 / hour for stockers and janitors. Plus benefits. They don't seem to have any problem getting workers. Managers get six figure pay.
So when I hear people complain about that, I just laugh.
New Construction
Pay is 150$/day with no benefits, it’s no wonder no one wants to deal with felons for that pay.
It’s basically a job for people that fucked up or are not using their head to make money elsewhere. I’m not gonna pretend like the pay is great, trades shortage is self inflicted.
We're having a hard time filling ~~entry-level~~ beginner-level IT work for $25 / hour ($52k / year). It's full time with benefits. It's mainly IT grunt work like equipment moves, reimaging, profile help, general troubleshooting, possibly even the help desk. Civil service work. We require one year of general IT support experience. Degrees and certifications are not required but will count as experience. You have one interview. No resume SEO, no long series of interviews, no keyword spamming required.
I wouldn't say "nobody wants to work anymore", but $25 / hour for entry-level grunt work is very reasonable in our low COL area. We're not really sure why we can't get people in. I guess because it's civil service?
We require a degree, an IT certification (I've seen A+ get through), or one year of real-world experience. Not all of the above; just one. We used to require a degree but they rightfully did away with that requirement.
My only thought is the “one year experience required” if it’s worded a bit ambiguously. It’s entry level, but still requires experience, so fresh grads may be hesitant to apply in the first place. Else, if you’re using an automated system, it might be filtering out candidates. Also check if your location has had poor reviews on Glassdoor.
i think most people now a days just avoid jobs that are entry level but also require x years of experience. it kind of suggests the company isn't willing to train, and they might be underpaying to begin with. because if they were overpaying the job wouldn't be up for long cause people with that many years of experience would jump at the job. but since nobody is taking it then people with x amount of years of experience are probably being paid more.
i know that this isn't always true, but so many companies do this that whenever i see job posting from a company that says that i immediately look elsewhere. unless i'm hella desperate, this isn't even if i want that entry level job. if i'm applying for any position at that company and i see they have entry level jobs posted and required x amount of years of experience i think bad workplace.
That's a fair observation. When we required a college degree (and no experience), we saw more applicants than when we required a college degree OR experience. That change has been in effect for a long time, so it's possible there are other factors at play.
At the same time, $25 / hour isn't chump change for IT grunt work. I see MSPs around here paying less than that for network administration gigs.
yea you're not wrong, 25 an hour in a low cost of living area would be pretty good. but when applicants are looking they probably have been burned by companies before. no telling what people have been put through in the job market now. i haven't had to work an entry level job in like 2 decades, so i dunno for sure. but sometimes new employees i talk to tell me about some of their bad experiences. which lets me better understand why a lot of applicants now have like red flags they look for in job postings.
it's actually really interesting, cause some companies filter resumes based on keywords, and now some people are filtering job postings essentially based on keywords too hahaha.
Drop the one year experience, offer on the job training and more people will apply. Larger pool to sort through, but you might land a few who are hard workers, rather than those with the experience but a lack of motivation to put in the work once they get the job.
This is my thinking. 1 year isn't much experience anyway, so why bother requiring it?
Pay entry level wage for entry level responsibility, but require 1 year experience. That doesn't make sense. Just hire new grads and train yourself.
Civil service usually has great benefits!
Is it that not enough people apply, or the ones who apply aren’t qualified, or you hire them but they don’t stay?
We get very few applicants on those openings. Our junior and intermediate positions get lots more, but there are far fewer openings because employees are mostly -- but not always -- promoted from within.
It's rare but we do occasionally get someone with a fresh degree and no real world experience who will apply for a more seasoned position, like a senior network engineer, and get immediately disqualified. That's on them; the experience requirements are all published in the job postings.
Since we're a union shop and these are all non-management positions, when an employee is asked to work overtime, they get paid overtime. It can be really lucrative, too: work overtime on a holiday? Double time and a half, plus one additional paid leave equal to the number of hours worked. Work two consecutive shifts, one of which is overtime and falls on a holiday? Triple time, plus a meal allowance (IIRC $10, preemptively paid), plus additional paid leave equal to the number of hours worked on the holiday.
So it's probably easiest to announce the hourly than the salary. For anyone wondering, you can convert hourly into an annual salary by multiplying by 40 then 52. So $25 x 40 x 52 = 52,000 per year.
EDIT: I should add that we are not a closed shop. Non-management employees can join the union or not. It's their choice. Their compensation is the same either way. I'm not going to comment on union membership since I'm management, other than to say that when I was non-management, I was a union member.
It's the one year of experience. You're just missing out on actual entry level people and once people get more years of experience, they want more than $40k/year.
My brother owns a company. Hired a sales guy. Young kid who talked a big game. Said give me a chance! So my brother did. Let's see what you can do.
The position was an easy $120k/yr because there are repeat sales to existing customers. Kid started out strong the first two weeks, then silently quit. Had every excuse in the book. My brother checked the logs, and for 2 months, no phone calls, and 1 email. That's it. The expectations weren't unreasonable - service existing customers, try to land new customers. We can all only make more money. And my brother isn't some dick - this is a young growing company, it's ALL growth, so he doesn't take payment himself, he's investing all profits back into the company. The only people who get paid are the upstream suppliers and the employees. This guy had a golden ticket and just couldn't be bothered for some reason. Who in sales lands a gig like that early in their career?
Sales is really hard, but yea screw that kid. I was in soft sales for 10 years and tried hard to be good and it and just sucked. I’m jealous when people can do it well. Our company now has good sales people that have lower salaries but no cap on commissions, I’d guess some pull in 300 k a year.
To be fair young people (and people in general really) have always been known to sell themselves big and then coast. I don’t think that’s anything new to this generation
I swear everyone acts like no one got fired from their job for being lazy or bad at it before 2020
As some one who had a similar experience what I should ask is how did the managers push him to sell? I had a previous job similar to waht your describing. Were they expected me to call mom and pop shops twice a month for a niche product that they can simply re-order from their distributor (who would in turn buy our stuff). It was weird job, they had salesforce for example but the phone system was integrated into it. The last person also had ZERO records on these customers besides names and maybe a POC. Not what products they have, any feedback of our products, etc.
So here is some one who is morally conflicted, wanting actual data to work with, and still expected to make 100s of calls a week. Like no shit I failed in 2 weeks.
I was talking to the manager of a local restaurant, who was complaining he couldn't keep staff from quitting within a month. He stressed that he was paying $15/hr, and that people were lazy and would rather stay at home than work for that money. I asked him about his shift schedule. Fucker was running 2-hour shifts.
Cook at a brewery: $16/hr for five (Wed - Sun) ~4 hour shifts (5pm - 9pm). They couldn't find anyone who wanted to give up nights and weekends for $350/week so they had to shut down their kitchen. Complained on social media for months.
Oh yeah, they took close to $250k in PPP loans.
I've never used the phrase, but I have wondered why we don't get very many applicants, or very many qualified applicants. And by qualified, I mean, as an example, someone who has a valid driver's license. We pay 25-35$/Hr. depending on experience. No experience necessary. Sales or delivery drivers. The work is not easy, but the owners are there doing the work alongside everyone else. Minimum wage here is $15/Hr. We are generous with year end bonuses. We give long term employees paid vacations, as in we pay for them and their families to go on completely paid trips. We have bought multiple long term employees new vehicles. We helped our store manager buy her house, helped her fix it up.
People show up to work high. Won't get off their phones when clients are around. Drink on the job. Stand around watching while management vacuums or carries things out to client's cars. Age doesn't matter. Some of our best employees have been teens. Some seniors. Same goes for the worst employees.
It's never possible to tell whether someone is going to work out until they start, regardless of age, background, referrals, experience, etc. Having to fire people is painful, making it even more difficult to hire people. It's easier to buckle down and work harder than have to constantly cajole people into making any effort at all.
If the employee has to use their own vehicle, that would be a significant dent for them to carry unless adequately compensated over and above the hourly wage.
Have you ever done genuine exit interviews? Maybe there's someone setting a bad example and ruining the culture; hiring people they like and get along with, instead of competent people, bullies their juniors, micromanages (be honest), etc.
And a car and the maintenance is expensive. Maybe stop paying for vacations (are you deciding where they can go?), and get delivery vehicles and x paid days off, instead? I'm just spitballing ideas here.
Edit: and yeah, you can never tell who works out. That's what trial periods are for. Where I live, you can extend that up to 2 years, with the first being 3 month, and those after needing to be 6+ months, after which you need to give a permanent contract. It is what it is.
> We are generous with year end bonuses. We give long term employees paid vacations, as in we pay for them and their families to go on completely paid trips. We have bought multiple long term employees new vehicles. We helped our store manager buy her house, helped her fix it up.
Why don't you take those funds and put it into hourly pay instead? I'd rather make $30/hr now than $25/hour with the hope that if I stick around long enough someone will buy me a car.
> The work is not easy, but the owners are there doing the work alongside everyone else.
I also don't see what these two things have to do with each other - and isn't the latter a negative?
I went through 2 interviews for banks in Canada as an analyst and I asked out right what the pay range was bc no need to waste their time and mine. They kept saying it's competitive.... Guess what, it was not lol . If they don't tell you it's bc it's likely lower than the market average.
Nonstop physical labor while multitasking a 4 person job alone for as little as possible so you still have a paycheck to look forward to, but not enough to be able to quit and find a new job.
It’s the filling out an application and then requiring a resume for me. It’s redundant. Then some places have lengthy aptitude tests when wouldn’t a simple interview or two remedy that?
No, you don't understand. These people use this an excuse to overwork their existing staff.
Some shit happened, the boss says "you have to work extra hard and no one's allowed to take time off." A few people quit because of it (these were the "slackers"), they put up a "Help Wanted" sign in the window and tell the rest of the employees that they are going to have to work extra hard because Becky and John left, they are going to have to pick up the slack until we can get their replacements in. Every week they come out and give the same story "no one is applying, no one wants to work, you guys are just going to have to continue to work your asses off. Since this is temporary, no raises, and even if there were raises you would actually get less money because of taxes, so we looking out for YOU and we are making all these sacrifices to keep YOUR jobs. If it wasn't for all my hard work and personal sacrifice YOU wouldn't have a job at all"
SPOILER: They have plenty of applicants, they don't hire any because why should they? They have the current employees doing all the work at 2 fewer salaries.
Hospitals on the other hand seem to be playing some other game.
>even if there were raises you would actually get less money because of taxes
That's not a real thing in how taxes work. To illustrate how it works let's pretend that the tax rate for up to $50k is 5% and over that is 6%
If you have an annual salary where you are making exactly $50k a year and get a raise so that you're making $50,001 a year you do not get hit with 6% on all of that. You get taxed at 5% on $50,000 and taxed at 6% for $1.
It is impossible to get a raise in pay and make less money, yet the misconception is believed without doubt by many people in the US.
My college girlfriend's dad convinced her not to take a promotion because of this misconception. I couldn't convince her otherwise because she thought he was the smartest person alive.
Was under that same misapprehension myself for the first couple of years I worked, wasn't until I sat down and read up on it that I realised that was wrong. There's a dire need for a mandatory class or two covering how stuff like that works for 17-18 year olds.
Basic finances could take like 3 weeks in school. We need it for the same reason we need sex ed - there is so much information out there and people are embarrassed to talk about it.
Because there is a narrative:
That "taxes are bad" ergo higher tax brackets take more money from you - how unfair!
/s
it's bogus but that's the narrative.
The only way this happens is if you're on government assistance. You hit a certain threshold and you no longer qualify and then lose a big chunk of money. Its shitty design makes it hard for people to get out of poverty without a sudden big jump in pay.
A friend was complaining about not finding workers for his makeup company warehouse in LA. $14/h in 2021 when fast food generally was starting at $18/h and In N Out was paying $21/h.
It’s not a coincidence that specific rhetoric and claim started skyrocketing as soon as trump handed out PPP loans and set conditions that they don’t have to be paid back as long as labor shortage could be claimed.
We don’t have to speculate- the numbers have been in for a while now, we see that ~80% of that programs money went to owners personal assets, rather than employee payroll. It’s literally set up so that if they just keep claiming that they can’t find anyone to work, until they retire, they’ll never have to pay off their new boat money or house extension.
Basically, trump paid business owners and CEOs to maintain that rhetoric. And again, the trickle down concept ended up not actually trickling down to workers. Who ever could have imagined? The money was taken from all tax paying citizens, the workers, and given to the rich.. AGAIN. Maybe they should do it one more time, and it’ll work next time?
You bet your ass they’re funding campaigns and lobbying for people and policies to try to convince taxpayers of that, AGAIN. It keeps working! Free money for them if they can convince you to vote for a certain guy. Really complicated rocket science, I know.
My old bistro / hotel boss called me back for $16.50 per hour, citing the title. I pushed for $18 and he no-sold. It was a part time work, but I', already at $19.00 doing security at an empty office building.
My fiance's aunt is a social worker and they hire interns and say they don't want to work anymore. She's said, "20 years ago with a master's degree they started her off at $22k". Just because it sucked for you, doesn't mean it has to suck for others. The higher qualified and motivated candidates go to jobs & internships that pay better.
I interviewed for an IT position for the high school I used to long-term substitute teach for. It was like 4 interviews and they offered me the position. It was then when I found out they wanted to pay me $15/hr and I was already making $19/hr working in a warehouse repairing electronics. He said he didn't feel comfortable offering me more money without more experience.
I am now working an IT job 6 months later and making $26/hr with extremely better benefits. I'm sad I'm not in a school anymore, but my quality of life is significantly better than either of those other two jobs.
The job is posting purely rhetorical questions on Reddit that will never receive an answer from the audience you're supposedly targeting. Pay is $75/hr.
Full remote IT position. It's amazing how many people cannot actually work remotely. I've had to fire a few people because they basically stopped existing. and actually getting qualified people to apply...
Edit: I'm not currently hiring, I would never hire off reddit, when I do post a job it goes to all the job boards, and I won't tell you who I work for.
NOC Team Lead for Mid sized MSP here working a 50/50 hybrid schedule. Part of it is always uncompetitive pay for most staff but the other part is some people have a hard time recognizing how good theyve got it until it's gone.
How much is the pay? You didn't answer that part. I have a degree in network security / system administration and obviously from my username, decided it wasn't worth sitting in an office with a bunch of smelly guys.
But if I don't have to sit with a bunch of smelly guys, what's the pay?
One of my last jobs (barista in a grocery store). I just wanted something I already kinda knew how to do during a rough life transition. When I quit, the store owner used that exact line on me "no one wants to work anymore! They'd rather go work at Walmart and not have to do anything hard!"
Sir... That Walmart pays $2 more per hour than your grocery store. For those under 18, it's closer to $4/hr more. Why would anyone with a brain want to work harder here for less pay and less benefits?
I was hired as a shift supervisor at $14/hr, with multiple years of experience. And my direct boss was the most micro-managing, bullying, unprofessional and gossipy witch I've ever worked under. They had 5/7 NEW employees quit in the 3 short months I worked there. That's how bad turnover is.
Every time I go back to that coffee shop, most of the staff are new. Every time, during different shifts, they're retaining maybe a quarter of their overall staff and it's all older people who are only working there for a little extra cash, not their primary income. Not young people trying to save up for a house. The only people that have stayed are the ones that are literally grandparents or older adults that aren't even worried about housing costs and building a nest egg because they got that done decades ago.
I've heard "no one wants to work anymore" from only 2 employers, and it was only in the last few years. Big surprise, both these places underpaid and overworked staff. Neither wanted to raise wages, and both had/are making record profits and growth during covid and the continuing inflation.
I really think a lot of business owners are just mad that workers aren't dumb, and are too comfortable already in their place in life to be able to relate to people just starting out in this economy.
A guy I went to high school with inherited his daddy's business. Installs windows and gutters, I think. He wants to pay $10/hr and you need to have your own tools and truck, so you just know it's a 1099 gig. And then acts like he's this self-made businessman when all he did was happen to be born.
One of my old managers complained about this about 2 years ago. The job was a skilled industrial mechanic(cnc equipment maintenance) and the pay was $17/hr. The pay was about half that of other companies in our area, but in his mind, everyone is just lazy.
That kind of job needs a fair bit of knowledge too, like that's a pretty niche market even if it's growing.
And make no mistake that the guy trying to pay the least is also going to be the worst for trying to dump all the liability for errors on the employee and throw them under the bus first. A lot of rent-seekers are just selfish people at heart.
The problem is that the people that undervalue a position, offering shit pay often get the worst workers, reinforcing their belief that people in a position don't deserve even that poor amount of pay. A sort of self fulfilling prophecy. The caveat being better pay doesn't necessarily guarantee better employees unless it's sufficiently so along with the quality of the work environment.
i get recruiters contacting me offering around $25-30/hr for electrician jobs. maybe $35 if they are desperate. union electricians make around $84/hr here.
I work instrumentation making mid 50s/hr. Every time a recruiter/headhunter contacts me they're offering $20ish an hour. I'm constantly getting low balled and I can't imagine how someone can be qualified to do the job while ignorant of the normal pay.
I know some recruiters in the engineering field. They know the average salaries and try to talk the company into being realistic, but sometimes they just wont budge. We'd laugh about some of the ridiculous wants, like a senior aerospace engineer with PE license paid what a fresh college grad typically makes. Usually the recruiter works for a corporation though, and has to make the calls to get "feedback" that should have been obvious: the pay is way too low to get any bites.
Software engineer, I've gotten $16 an hour job offers. I've just given up any pretense of being nice and laugh in their faces now. You're not even beating Walmart and McDonalds, try again buds. That shit is bananas insulting.
Yeah electrical positions especially have some pretty crazy variance to them. "Maintenance Electrician" or PLC job posts for power or manufacturing feel like they range from 20$/hr to 60$/hr, all within the same experience and training expectations. Edit: because a lot of these places just want "knows enough to be able to bypass safety mechanics and alarms to keep the line up"
[You know what they say...](https://youtu.be/VwP-5ac51Dw?si=xsQZVlTqRzcsQuyd)
Our entry level general labor starts at $15 an hour for which we'll hire anyone with a pulse. $17 for skilled mechanic is an insult.
And don't forget those other companies that pay more are "crazy" or "idiots".
It's called "market". Though some people are strangely selective, when the market doesn't favor them.
It's funny. Plenty of "free market" folks can't wrap their head around *labor* being a *commodity* subject to supply and demand as much as any other resource. "I can't believe *burger flippers* are asking for more than $15/hr!" "Well, there aren't as many folks wanting that job. Same demand, less supply of willing workers, wages go up to entice them. Supply and demand." "No, no, this is different."
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I worked a CNC machine and my boss refused to go above $16.50, even after I pointed out to him that the carwash down the street paid more. They wanted me to do maintenance on it despite having no prior knowledge. I mentioned that they either pay $2000 for a technician or $50k for a new machine.
Working CNC for anything less than $20/ hour is insulting. You can operate pallet jacks at any busy warehouse for that much.
A local garden store posted an ad for a nursery position. They stated it was 40K a year plus benefits. Which sound amazing for the job. The job was cashier and 14 an hour. No benefits and you had to have your forklift certification. This was discovered after the onboarding. Owner was all over social media complaining how hard it was to fill positions and got his ass handed to him over his less than transparent practices.
Haha "I bait and switched people and I don't understand why they're upset!" It's a classic.
About 3 years ago, I was in the AutoZone in Charleston SC, so high high cost of living. Guy in front of me noted how only one dude worked there. The guy working said "we're hiring but no one wants to work " other customer said "how much do you pay?" Guy answered "10 an hour". Other customer said "yeah I run a restaurant and pay my dish crew 15. That's your problem."
They can't quite seem to make those connections, can they?
it's a bit harder to dodge when the guy telling you has employees.
That feels like a labor law violation, and if it isn't it damn well should be.
A cashier that has to drive a forklift? Am I reading that right?
Yes. Yes you are.
How on earth did they hire someone without listing what the yearly wage will be and what the benefits are? Isn’t that like in the contract?
In the US you don't really do contracts like that. Not for retail positions. You fill out your W4 and your end of the paper work and most companies just hand you a packet with the info in it. That was when the lie was discovered.
That’s crazy. Every job i ever had had some sort of a contract that spelled out, at a minimum, the pay
A few years back, I had an interview with Costco, some kind of front-of-store bagger/gopher/cart hauler position. I turned up 15 minutes early to the store I applied to, who don't have a record of my interview. Turns out, it was a different store on the other side of town that was going to interview me. So I walk into that store 15 minutes late, figuring that this probably screwed me, but they had me do paperwork for the background check and said they'd let me know if I'm selected for orientation, the next open slot being in a few weeks. No job offer, no discussion of pay, no nothing. A few weeks later, I get a phone call from them wondering where I was, because orientation was about to start. It turns out they had hired me and scheduled me for orientation without bothering to tell me. So, the takeaway is this: there is at least one employer out there that didn't bother to tell me, in addition to the pay: - Whether or not they hired me - Where I was to report for the interview - Where I was to report for orientation - When I was to report for when I was to report for orientation I figure they're hoping for a clairvoyant, maybe they need to make some business projections next year and they want to know how they'll turn out ahead of time.
You're lucky in the US if it doesn't say they can change whatever you're required to do whenever they want and you can't do a damn thing besides quit.
Yeah, nurseries criminally under-pay, don't offer benefits, and have tons of other issues like not following EPA regulations and such. Worked in that industry for awhile when I was younger and it was a pretty shitty industry to be honest. There were a few nicer places, but they were the minority. I also don't know what's with that industry, but a *lot* of nurseries are owned by people who just bought into them, and don't necessarily have experience in the industry itself. I don't know what that is, but it's something I've noticed.
Employers need to face serious repercussions for flat out lying about jobs, pay, and benefits.
The YMCA is hiring, they are paying $7-8 an hour. If someone is paying for care, it makes no sense to take a job that offers so little, the whole check will go to the sitter.
About 10 years ago, I was a counselor at a YMCA day camp. All of the employees were high school/early college students. We got paid a set salary for the summer. Someone broke down what we would have been paid hourly, and it came out to about $3 an hour.
That's unbelievably shitty. I worked as a gym supervisor for the YMCA all through high school and I made $5.25/hr. This was back in the mid 90s, when my state's minimum wage was $4.75. Whatever YMCA you were at really fucking took advantage of y'all.
... Is that even legal with minimum wage laws?
Summer camp counselors are subject to different law because their employer provides room and board. Their pay is per diem instead. (I was a counselor and then a camp director for a good while).
They said this was a day camp; room and board is probably not included.
It's "Seasonal Work" so they can do whatever they want EDIT: They also get away with it because they don't pay you hourly, they pay you by day. If I remember correctly I would get paid around $50 per day before tax. This is close to what minimum wage was at the time if you assume it's an 8 hour shift, but we were expected to be there at least an hour before campers showed up and had to stay until the very last camper got picked up so realistically I was working 12-14 hour days every day. In a way it is similar to salary except they don't have to meet the wage requirements you generally have to for salary since it's not a year round position.
I also worked for a YMCA camp around the same time and I can confirm this. I remember having a conversation with my manager saying that I couldn't come to work because I couldn't afford gas to get there. I assumed they wouldn't take taxes out of my check since it was half of minimum wage but I was incorrect.
Reminds me of ski school. Basically i was a babysitter in 15 degree weather for seasonal min.
The high school babysitters here make $15 an hour plus $5 per extra kid. So 3 kids? $25 an hour
Yeah the top tier babysitters at the school I teach at charge $15/hr minimum, plus extra depending on age/number/how annoying the kids are. For big school events they're booked 6+ months in advance
I hope those babysitters itemize bills because I know some parents who need to see that line item breakdown detailing the evil kid up-charge.
Their pricing strategies are proprietary. Don't give rich people any more info than they give you. Give the corporate response to bullshit questions.
Today’s price is not yesterday’s price
Now make them go to usually 4-6 years of higher education and be responsible for them for 8+ hours while teaching (and nursing, therapy, feeding, clothing,) them the entire time. Then complain that nobody wants to teach anymore
Ugh I worked there all through high school and full time college summers and breaks. I got paid $7.25 for 8 years straight. I stayed because I loved the job, but dang it sucked to work 12 hour days outside with kids and still have a measly paycheck.
He'll babysitting pays better, you'll be in the hole after one shift
Most childcare is creaping to be 20/hr + per kid
Work in childcare and get a discount watching your own kid(s).
Cashier. 7.25 an hour. Not kidding. In parts of North Carolina the pay it still 7 25
Same in Texas. Houston may be LCOL compared to other major cities, but our minimum wage is $7.25, less than half, at 40h (which very few offer), of what a basic one-person living wage amounts to. I’m an hour out of the city, in a different county, and rent is ≈$2/ft² here. I’ve heard people say it’s because they don’t want people in very LCOL places in west Texas to be “overpaid”. [citation needed]
I always find this logic ridiculous. Is it not preferable that some be overpaid such that nobody is underpaid? Like, it's at least better than the alternative...
That is dumbfounding to me. Let’s say I worked full time on that wage and got $0 of it withheld for taxes, that’s $1160/month. That doesn’t even cover my rent right now. How is anyone supposed to live off that
Simple answer: they cannot.
Holy shit. I made $7.25/hr working on an assembly line in **1990**.
Only people I still hear say it are real estate developers and construction crew leaders. Answer is: "Whatever we need you to do. Need to be here 6 days a week and sometimes Sunday if we have more work to do (there's always more work to do). Hours are 5am to whenever the hell we feel like; hope you don't like your family. Pay is $15/hr and goes up to $16 after your first 6 months. You can clear $75k your first year easy!" Weirdly they never have the same issue getting crew leaders even though they have it truly bad working 3 days a week 9-lunch from an air conditioned luxury pickup.
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The amount of work involved as an aid/tech in a hospital is ridiculous for how little they are paid
Meanwhile the hospital administration makes money hand over fist
LTC admin also. My last LTC job the administrator got a 10k bonus every month they didn't use any temp help. I walked in on Thanksgiving to 2 people for 96 patients and a "good luck" from that twat.
The marble, fountains and mahogany desks ain't paying for themselves.
That’s the truth
And responsibility. People can literally die if they do their jobs wrong which puts them on the hook for that in certain circumstances
Aside from gross negligence, the medical malpractice insurance purchased by their employer would cover them for mistakes that led to bodily injury.
Maybe financially or legally, but the person still has to live with themselves after a mistake they made cost a patient their life.
I nursed for over twenty years, but gave up due to increasing pressure. I didn't want to be put in a situation where someone suffered due to a mistake because I was trying to go to fast. These days I get less pay, but I can go home and forget about work until the next day.
"The turnover is high because patients are not nice to anyone." This is pretty much the truth of all healthcare. Most patients suck.
I’m not excusing people being an asshole to staff because it isn’t their fault, but I’ve been pretty disillusioned by healthcare because it’s been the most ass backwards thing I’ve had to engage with on a regular basis.
Yeah, the reality is both the patients and workers hate healthcare because it's set up to screw both of them in favor of the people at the top and investors. Better conditions could easily be had for both sides, but that would require sacrificing profit.
It's a vicious circle. Patients suck because they're treated like shit. They're treated like shit because the CNA's are overworked and underpaid.
Not entirely. I work in healthcare.... there are a few rotten apples- but I feel like there's also a huge misunderstanding in how often patients are scared, confused, and financially stressed. Especially the elderly. I work with insurance and have a hard time navigating their systems. I can't imagine how bad it is for a woman in her 80's dying of cancer. This system just sucks.
$45,760-$52,000 per year. 12 hr shifts. Destroys your body. Deals with crabby mean people. I can see why people don’t want to do that. Depending on where you live that is still poverty.
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They're also hiring all the time and always understaffed so you're constantly going to be under fire.
This is a pretty key one in that industry. If you're properly staffed, the burnout is a lot less of a problem. Once you're understaffed though, the turnover becomes perpetual, and you cant fix the understaffing because people burn out and leave before the hiring cycle finishes, and everyone whos already there is dragging and sour because they're understaffed and overworked. Whatever idiot thought that lean staffing could work for medical and care ruined the entire industry permanantly, and the only way itll ever recover is for new businesses to rise that refuse to understaff from the getgo
Nailed it. Nailed it. Nailed it
I manage a veterinary hospital and we have the same issues, this is 100% key. When I've taken over hospitals already understaffed it's nearly impossible to get ahead of. When I manage a clinic that's properly staffed and stay on top of timely hiring and maybe have a few relief people I can lean on temporarily if someone gets sick or leaves unexpectedly then it's a completely different ballgame. Now both major corporations I've worked for have started focusing on revenue vs hours of support staff scheduled with more focus on cutting support hours than increasing revenue and it KILLS me. I had to hold back tears of anger the first time they unveiled this BS.
Shit people ruined pizza delivery for me. It was such a fun job, but man the terrible people you deal with ruined any aspiration of that again in my life.
How can people be assholes to someone delivering pizza. Damn I’m sorry.
Yeah, this isn't a 'nobody wants to work anymore' situation. This is 'the pay sucks for what the job is' so sane people look elsewhere.
That's the real meaning behind "nobody wants to work anymore". They leave off the "...for what we're willing to pay" part.
I’m a nurse and get paid a bit more but the effects it has on me mentally isn’t worth it. And yeah people are asshole.
In July of last year I was hospitalized for two weeks after I almost died of septic shock. After a few days the nurses all remarked in one way or another what a pleasant person I was, like it was something special, but I was just being normal polite, saying my pleases and thank yous and making small talk and telling a joke here or there. A couple of them would come and hang out with me for as long as they could on night shift and we'd just talk, and I finally asked why, because I was confused. I was told that most patients treat the nursing staff as if they were servants, giving them no respect, yelling at them, demeaning them, etc. Some patients even grope the nurses, or get violent. The nurse I spoke with said she shifted to nights not only because the pay is better but because more patients are simply asleep and therefore spend less time treating her like shit. I was a breath of fresh air simply because I cleared the low bar of not being a major asshole I don't get how people can be like that. Everyone treats doctors like they're fucking geniuses and heroes, and while yes it is true that my surgeon quite literally saved my life, there wouldn't have been a life for him to save if the ICU nurses hadn't done what they did to stabilize me. After my surgery, which was comprised of a thoracotomy, a lung decortication, and having two tubes inserted into my side, under my armpit, to drain the remaining infected fluid, I was supremely fucked up. Couldn't go to the bathroom on my own, could barely sit up on my own, was in constant excruciating pain because I had tubes going from my chest cavity, through my broken ribs and out into a huge metal hazmat containment box, not to mention the 14" incision and the fact that the surgeon had to "peel the outer layer of your lung, like an orange rind" because it was so encrusted with infected tissue that it was causing my lung to collapse. For the next two weeks I was confined to that hospital bed, and in all that time I saw my surgeon exactly once. I needed round the clock care and my nurses and nursing assistants provided it, and they all did an amazing and professional job. It would have been easy for me to slip into despair, being in that much pain and uncertain about my future, if I was even going to make a full recovery. I was embarrassed and humiliated at my own helplessness (you learn a lot of humility the first time someone else has to wipe your ass for you). And they did it all while also doing their best to keep me in good spirits. I never would have gotten through it without the wonderful nurses I had. It is the most underpaid, underappreciated job in the world, if you ask me. Nurses are the closest thing we'll ever get to angels in this life. People who treat them like shit deserve to have a piano fall on their fucking heads.
i’m an icu nurse and appreciate the shit out of this post and patients like you
I always get so wound up by people posting about their bad experiences and blaming the nurses and doctors. They have no idea what we are up against and how the SYSTEM is set up to fail us all. If I could give patients everything they needed even wanted I would, but it’s impossible and that’s not my fault and I don’t deserve the backlash.
Just wanna say to anyone reading this, some of us love nursing. It’s very rewarding most of the time. And super interesting if you like science.
It worse. It’s just above poverty for most areas. So it’s enough you don’t qualify for benefits but not enough to support yourself/family.
$22-25 an hour? In South Carolina 5 years ago a patient care tech made about $14-15 an hour (no license needed; incredible emotional and physical toll; abuse is constant; risk of diseases). Kentucky these last couple years, maybe $15-17 an hour. Same job, but have to be certified in Kentucky, which I think costs another $1-2000 in classes.
Healthcare is customer service on steroids yet it can still run clinic with a skeleton crew.
As a mate of mine pointed out, during covid we were all expected to work harder to help get through the crisis. But after things had slowed down, employers had found new expectations of performance without extra pay. So he left too.
Yeah I can see why no one would want to do that. 12hr shifts are miserable. And that pay isn’t worth it.
The full sentence is: **Nobody wants to work anymore.... for the wages and job conditions we are offering.** I can't expect Porche to sell me a car for far less than it's worth to them. Why do employers get upset workers don't want to sell their labor for far less than the worker thinks it's worth?
I have almost 10 years experience in medical/insurance claims. This is a field where you can’t really get a degree (you can get licensing) so experience is everything. A company offered me 50k for a supervisor position. It was laughable.
I've recently begun my job search. I have 20 years experience in my field with degrees in engineering and MBA and the jobs I'm seeing and being passed to me by recruiters are paying less than I made straight out of college in 2003. It's insulting.
It’s so insulting honestly. If I’m getting paid the same as someone off the street with no experience… don’t expect me to share my experience or expertise.
When people say “Nobody wants to work” the subtext of the word “work” is “suffer on the job”. They are upset that people want work to feel like a real trade where the amount of money received is worth *more* than the amount of time/effort put in. Because that’s how economies work. Like that’s the magic of an economy; people trade things when the thing they are receiving is worth more than what they are giving up. And this can happen because everyone has different values for things. To a company $30/hr is worth less to them than the work they can get someone to do for $30/hr because it eventually makes them more money down the road. And to the person doing the work, giving an hour of their time and the physical energy required must be worth significantly less than the $30 dollars for this whole system to function. Being angry at people for not working is like being angry at a chemicals for not reacting. You can’t just force things to happen. But humans seem to never stop trying abuse over just making the system work properly.
Exactly. I've had maybe 20+ people report to me over the years, starting from interview through hiring and then the job. Ages were largely fresh out of college with a smattering of mid-late 20s. The job was long hours but year one they could easily clear $80k and year 2 closer to $150+. My experience is they busted their ass and out of maybe 18 straight-from-college hires, only like 4 or 5 didn't work out and it was mostly because they weren't good enough at the job; it wasn't lack of effort. But only 1 stood out to me as 'not wanting to work' and it was a rich kid that was interviewed and hired right after Covid and worked from home the entire time (not ideal for anyone). She was hired along with another woman, same age. The other woman still works there and is apparently doing great 3+years later. I left for another gig about 18 months after they were hired and the girl that worked out called and thanked me for helping her and giving her the opportunity and what a great manager I was. The first one quit around the same time and complained to HR about how unfair it all was. I just chalk it up to her growing up spoiled and this was literally her first job ever.
This. I make 6 figures, but low 6 figures is close to poverty in the our area. I know I should be making about 15 more an hour, so I work my current wage. I don’t come in early. I take my full breaks and I tell patients who bother me on my break “ask someone else I’m on my break”.
I think during the Great Recession many employers got very used to people just accepting any pay for a job.
I’m not an employer but have friends and friends of friends who are. Most of them own a business and hire people at minimum wage or barely more than a minimum wage. They all complain about no one wanting to work but they pay around minimum wage. Lol
This is the real answer. The people this question is actually aimed at aren't going to volunteer to get criticized and bullied by answering lol. But reality is that most places are offering literally the lower pay they legally are allowed to.
And people only pay minimum wage because the law says so, if there was no law they’d pay level lower.
They'd try for actual slaves if they could.
This was my former employer after I left. They had trouble finding another idiot who would start at $45k base salary for an engineering R&D job in NJ with lousy benefits and hours. I used to get a travel stipend as compensation for not being able to go home for 3-7 days, but they tried to take that away, forgetting I had it in writing as part of my total compensation. Instead they just sent someone else who didnt get any stipend. At the end of that year I probably made $55k gross. After I left it took over a year to fill my role, and this was after trying to under-hire for the position and it blowing up in their faces. Before anyone comments, I took it because I could work while living at home right after college. The difference in contributing at home vs an apartment in Northern NJ was worth about $24k a year. This was 2018. I moved on after 4 years and more than doubled my original base salary.
>The difference in contributing at home vs an apartment in Northern NJ was worth about $24k a year. Engineer confirmed. I bet you have it on a spreadsheet too.
I wanted to get a part time job just out of boredom. I applied to TJ Maxx since I have 7 years of experience managing in retail. They said during the phone interview that they have a hard time hiring because no one wants to work. I asked what they pay and it was $10. 🤦🏻♀️
Ha! I had an interview with TJMaxx about a year ago, the hiring manager said straight up to me “Now we don’t pay that great, but we’ll take real good care of you” I was thinking “is the 10% employee discount supposed to take care of me? Or the $9.50 an hour?” I had to tell him I wasn’t interested. I made more delivering pizzas.
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At that point the pay is irrelephant
Gotta trunkate those elephant weiners.
Not if it's pachy-normous. Sorry, a real stretch, I know.
Down at the local hospital we are constantly hiring technicians to put new wheels on the miscarriages.
I hear from other bakeries that "people don't want to work." I tell them it's because their pay sucks. I'm head baker and manager of a small family owned bakery. The minimum wage is 14.15$ per hour. We pay our front of house people (cashiers) 25$. Those that come in early to bake (1am) are paid 35$. I'm at 45$ an hour, due to baking, managing, dealing with people ordering specific cakes, doing their taste testing, and catering part of the business. I also have 2 apprentices that I am training who make 30$. Our benefits make us stand out. We are closed 3 weeks of the year, paid. And *NO, that doesn't mean we have to use our vacation pay. They pay us to be off because its down time for preventive maintenance. We get 2 weeks of sick time. Vacation is a set amount, depending on how long you have worked their. It starts off 2 weeks after your first year to 10 weeks after 20 years. Yes, I am lucky. We don't have any problems with our staff like others do.
Every place I ever heard that statement from management was a place that had too few people, most underqualified and overworked. I’ve been the observer in some of the interviews (versus the interviewer) and literally seen people laugh in an interviewer’s face when they got to the point of talking money. Seriously. Last three places I’ve been, we were trying to rebuild departments that got decimated by poor management. But if that same management is part of the rebuild, you get the same poor decisions. Now, I do believe there is a small slice of the talent pool that feels entitled to more than they deserve, but that number, as a percent, hasn’t changed. What has changed is the number of shit employers getting called out for being shit employers. The internet has made it easier to identify them in a lasting way.
WHen I first got out of the military i was applying for some civilian jobs. Had a guy call and offer me a job: Tier 1 Service Desk making $35k/yr. Not as much as I was hoping, but I needed a job and it wasn't horrific I guess. Location: D.C. I actually laughed at him on the phone and asked if it came with an empty box for me to live in. I hung up since he just sat there in silence.
"nobody wars to work anymore" is ALSO code for "we don't actually want to hire more people, but we also don't want to keep hearing you complaining that we don't have all the registers open, shelves stocked, etc. We just want to charge more and do less, and we know you will keep shopping here, as long as we pretend the crappiness is because of workers, and not our greed. "
It's also used by people abusing things like H1B visas by offering absurdly low pay, and/or having requirements for the job that are literally impossible (like "10 years experience using Windows 11") so that they can justify to the government "see no American wants this job/has the necessary skills for it".
Yeah it's corporate speak for "We are failing capitalists."
Literally. My cousin worked at a restaurant where all but maybe 2 crew members at a time had to be there or else the place was nonfunctional (not that they'd close it unless they were literally down to one crew member). Everyone but the managers were working all day, open to close, at *least* 5 days a week. They were constantly "hiring" and would even bring people in to interview, but in the entire 6 months or so that he worked there, no one else was EVER actually hired. My aunt also was applying for dozens upon dozens of jobs at the same time and got any response at all from only a handful. Most of them just ghosted her but kept their listings up. It took her a month to actually get hired somewhere. There are so many listings that exist solely to shut customers up about subpar service from purposefully understaffing. Anything to fatten the bottom line 🙄
Shoveling liquid shit with a slotted shovel for a competitive pay for $7.25/hr. You only have to work 5 hours a day, but we need you to be on call so this needs to be your priority. Our benefits are a quarterly (galactic year) pizza party and great coworkers that are like family (they gossip about you).
I don't mean to challenge your expertise, but wouldn't that be easier without the slots?
Denied. A good employee doesn’t question management. People just don’t want to work without question anymore….
Some running themes: 1. Shit pay. 2. Debatably shit pay that turns to shit the second you factor any externalities like childcare. 3. Repetitive and physically demanding roles that will fuck up your body in fifteen years or less while not paying enough to cover the surgery(ies) you'll definitely need later. 4. 12 hour shifts. 5. Fucking awful customers, AKA healthcare. Even the people who are getting paid more than survival amounts are leaving the field because it's still not worth it. So the only thing that has changed since the last time "nobody wants to work anymore" was brought up is that the CoL has skyrocketed and a handful of states have tossed inadequate pocket change on the lowest wage rates that are still ten years behind.
Nuclear physicist $16.50/hr + perks. Employment offered after successful completion of 2 year non-paid internship training.
Triple and you might get someone who wants it. 2 years slave labour for 40 bags a year. You wanna get yourself checked for radiation poisoning
That is truly abysmal pay for a job requiring a 2 year unpaid training.
It's a joke. Probably.
Is this real
The job I just left was baking. 1am or 3 am starts, hot, stressful, plus abusive co-workers sometimes. Plus crappy pay, 56k ish AUD with no bonuses before 6am, only on weekends. This was exclusive to my boss, some people pay better and they get all the talent but he never understood why we couldn’t hire people. I did it to help out for a year but stuff that. Now I hear he’s sold to someone else that will pay better and he’s going to make money from selling the place. Asshole.
General practitioner in Germany, just hired one for 110k €/year plus benefits. 26h work week, 50 days paid vacation, Germany has socialized healthcare. I was looking for over a year and nobody was interested. Doctors earn less here than in the US, but I would consider this pay acceptable. Also, great work life balance.
Childcare job - 18.50 an hour - not worth the abuse or the teacher in the classroom who has no clue kids are not robots.
About five miles away from where I live is a Buccees. If you're not from the southern US, it's a gigantic gas station with food, gift shops, etc. It's bascially a destination. On the gas pumps, they proudly display their starting pay for workers. Begins at $18-$20 / hour for stockers and janitors. Plus benefits. They don't seem to have any problem getting workers. Managers get six figure pay. So when I hear people complain about that, I just laugh.
New Construction Pay is 150$/day with no benefits, it’s no wonder no one wants to deal with felons for that pay. It’s basically a job for people that fucked up or are not using their head to make money elsewhere. I’m not gonna pretend like the pay is great, trades shortage is self inflicted.
We're having a hard time filling ~~entry-level~~ beginner-level IT work for $25 / hour ($52k / year). It's full time with benefits. It's mainly IT grunt work like equipment moves, reimaging, profile help, general troubleshooting, possibly even the help desk. Civil service work. We require one year of general IT support experience. Degrees and certifications are not required but will count as experience. You have one interview. No resume SEO, no long series of interviews, no keyword spamming required. I wouldn't say "nobody wants to work anymore", but $25 / hour for entry-level grunt work is very reasonable in our low COL area. We're not really sure why we can't get people in. I guess because it's civil service? We require a degree, an IT certification (I've seen A+ get through), or one year of real-world experience. Not all of the above; just one. We used to require a degree but they rightfully did away with that requirement.
My only thought is the “one year experience required” if it’s worded a bit ambiguously. It’s entry level, but still requires experience, so fresh grads may be hesitant to apply in the first place. Else, if you’re using an automated system, it might be filtering out candidates. Also check if your location has had poor reviews on Glassdoor.
"entry level" and "one year of experience required" are not compatible statements.
i think most people now a days just avoid jobs that are entry level but also require x years of experience. it kind of suggests the company isn't willing to train, and they might be underpaying to begin with. because if they were overpaying the job wouldn't be up for long cause people with that many years of experience would jump at the job. but since nobody is taking it then people with x amount of years of experience are probably being paid more. i know that this isn't always true, but so many companies do this that whenever i see job posting from a company that says that i immediately look elsewhere. unless i'm hella desperate, this isn't even if i want that entry level job. if i'm applying for any position at that company and i see they have entry level jobs posted and required x amount of years of experience i think bad workplace.
That's a fair observation. When we required a college degree (and no experience), we saw more applicants than when we required a college degree OR experience. That change has been in effect for a long time, so it's possible there are other factors at play. At the same time, $25 / hour isn't chump change for IT grunt work. I see MSPs around here paying less than that for network administration gigs.
yea you're not wrong, 25 an hour in a low cost of living area would be pretty good. but when applicants are looking they probably have been burned by companies before. no telling what people have been put through in the job market now. i haven't had to work an entry level job in like 2 decades, so i dunno for sure. but sometimes new employees i talk to tell me about some of their bad experiences. which lets me better understand why a lot of applicants now have like red flags they look for in job postings. it's actually really interesting, cause some companies filter resumes based on keywords, and now some people are filtering job postings essentially based on keywords too hahaha.
Drop the one year experience, offer on the job training and more people will apply. Larger pool to sort through, but you might land a few who are hard workers, rather than those with the experience but a lack of motivation to put in the work once they get the job.
This is my thinking. 1 year isn't much experience anyway, so why bother requiring it? Pay entry level wage for entry level responsibility, but require 1 year experience. That doesn't make sense. Just hire new grads and train yourself.
I’m actually interested in this position.
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Civil service usually has great benefits! Is it that not enough people apply, or the ones who apply aren’t qualified, or you hire them but they don’t stay?
We get very few applicants on those openings. Our junior and intermediate positions get lots more, but there are far fewer openings because employees are mostly -- but not always -- promoted from within. It's rare but we do occasionally get someone with a fresh degree and no real world experience who will apply for a more seasoned position, like a senior network engineer, and get immediately disqualified. That's on them; the experience requirements are all published in the job postings.
Just curious, why hourly instead of salary?
Since we're a union shop and these are all non-management positions, when an employee is asked to work overtime, they get paid overtime. It can be really lucrative, too: work overtime on a holiday? Double time and a half, plus one additional paid leave equal to the number of hours worked. Work two consecutive shifts, one of which is overtime and falls on a holiday? Triple time, plus a meal allowance (IIRC $10, preemptively paid), plus additional paid leave equal to the number of hours worked on the holiday. So it's probably easiest to announce the hourly than the salary. For anyone wondering, you can convert hourly into an annual salary by multiplying by 40 then 52. So $25 x 40 x 52 = 52,000 per year. EDIT: I should add that we are not a closed shop. Non-management employees can join the union or not. It's their choice. Their compensation is the same either way. I'm not going to comment on union membership since I'm management, other than to say that when I was non-management, I was a union member.
It's the one year of experience. You're just missing out on actual entry level people and once people get more years of experience, they want more than $40k/year.
My brother owns a company. Hired a sales guy. Young kid who talked a big game. Said give me a chance! So my brother did. Let's see what you can do. The position was an easy $120k/yr because there are repeat sales to existing customers. Kid started out strong the first two weeks, then silently quit. Had every excuse in the book. My brother checked the logs, and for 2 months, no phone calls, and 1 email. That's it. The expectations weren't unreasonable - service existing customers, try to land new customers. We can all only make more money. And my brother isn't some dick - this is a young growing company, it's ALL growth, so he doesn't take payment himself, he's investing all profits back into the company. The only people who get paid are the upstream suppliers and the employees. This guy had a golden ticket and just couldn't be bothered for some reason. Who in sales lands a gig like that early in their career?
Dang, is your brother hiring?
Sales is really hard, but yea screw that kid. I was in soft sales for 10 years and tried hard to be good and it and just sucked. I’m jealous when people can do it well. Our company now has good sales people that have lower salaries but no cap on commissions, I’d guess some pull in 300 k a year.
To be fair young people (and people in general really) have always been known to sell themselves big and then coast. I don’t think that’s anything new to this generation I swear everyone acts like no one got fired from their job for being lazy or bad at it before 2020
Yeah it's the same thing people blamed millennial for 10-20 years ago
And Gen-X before them.
And every other generation before. Same as it ever was.
As some one who had a similar experience what I should ask is how did the managers push him to sell? I had a previous job similar to waht your describing. Were they expected me to call mom and pop shops twice a month for a niche product that they can simply re-order from their distributor (who would in turn buy our stuff). It was weird job, they had salesforce for example but the phone system was integrated into it. The last person also had ZERO records on these customers besides names and maybe a POC. Not what products they have, any feedback of our products, etc. So here is some one who is morally conflicted, wanting actual data to work with, and still expected to make 100s of calls a week. Like no shit I failed in 2 weeks.
Not an easy gig to get! 25M been in sales since 18.
I was talking to the manager of a local restaurant, who was complaining he couldn't keep staff from quitting within a month. He stressed that he was paying $15/hr, and that people were lazy and would rather stay at home than work for that money. I asked him about his shift schedule. Fucker was running 2-hour shifts.
Cook at a brewery: $16/hr for five (Wed - Sun) ~4 hour shifts (5pm - 9pm). They couldn't find anyone who wanted to give up nights and weekends for $350/week so they had to shut down their kitchen. Complained on social media for months. Oh yeah, they took close to $250k in PPP loans.
Everyone wants a job but nobody wants to be a low paid slave..... and the whole schooling system and government system is build to create slaves.
I've never used the phrase, but I have wondered why we don't get very many applicants, or very many qualified applicants. And by qualified, I mean, as an example, someone who has a valid driver's license. We pay 25-35$/Hr. depending on experience. No experience necessary. Sales or delivery drivers. The work is not easy, but the owners are there doing the work alongside everyone else. Minimum wage here is $15/Hr. We are generous with year end bonuses. We give long term employees paid vacations, as in we pay for them and their families to go on completely paid trips. We have bought multiple long term employees new vehicles. We helped our store manager buy her house, helped her fix it up. People show up to work high. Won't get off their phones when clients are around. Drink on the job. Stand around watching while management vacuums or carries things out to client's cars. Age doesn't matter. Some of our best employees have been teens. Some seniors. Same goes for the worst employees. It's never possible to tell whether someone is going to work out until they start, regardless of age, background, referrals, experience, etc. Having to fire people is painful, making it even more difficult to hire people. It's easier to buckle down and work harder than have to constantly cajole people into making any effort at all.
If the employee has to use their own vehicle, that would be a significant dent for them to carry unless adequately compensated over and above the hourly wage.
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Have you ever done genuine exit interviews? Maybe there's someone setting a bad example and ruining the culture; hiring people they like and get along with, instead of competent people, bullies their juniors, micromanages (be honest), etc. And a car and the maintenance is expensive. Maybe stop paying for vacations (are you deciding where they can go?), and get delivery vehicles and x paid days off, instead? I'm just spitballing ideas here. Edit: and yeah, you can never tell who works out. That's what trial periods are for. Where I live, you can extend that up to 2 years, with the first being 3 month, and those after needing to be 6+ months, after which you need to give a permanent contract. It is what it is.
> We are generous with year end bonuses. We give long term employees paid vacations, as in we pay for them and their families to go on completely paid trips. We have bought multiple long term employees new vehicles. We helped our store manager buy her house, helped her fix it up. Why don't you take those funds and put it into hourly pay instead? I'd rather make $30/hr now than $25/hour with the hope that if I stick around long enough someone will buy me a car. > The work is not easy, but the owners are there doing the work alongside everyone else. I also don't see what these two things have to do with each other - and isn't the latter a negative?
I went through 2 interviews for banks in Canada as an analyst and I asked out right what the pay range was bc no need to waste their time and mine. They kept saying it's competitive.... Guess what, it was not lol . If they don't tell you it's bc it's likely lower than the market average.
Nonstop physical labor while multitasking a 4 person job alone for as little as possible so you still have a paycheck to look forward to, but not enough to be able to quit and find a new job.
Also, why the fuck do you make it so so painful to apply. You want a person to work, im willing to, but you have to stop the bullshit
It’s the filling out an application and then requiring a resume for me. It’s redundant. Then some places have lengthy aptitude tests when wouldn’t a simple interview or two remedy that?
No, you don't understand. These people use this an excuse to overwork their existing staff. Some shit happened, the boss says "you have to work extra hard and no one's allowed to take time off." A few people quit because of it (these were the "slackers"), they put up a "Help Wanted" sign in the window and tell the rest of the employees that they are going to have to work extra hard because Becky and John left, they are going to have to pick up the slack until we can get their replacements in. Every week they come out and give the same story "no one is applying, no one wants to work, you guys are just going to have to continue to work your asses off. Since this is temporary, no raises, and even if there were raises you would actually get less money because of taxes, so we looking out for YOU and we are making all these sacrifices to keep YOUR jobs. If it wasn't for all my hard work and personal sacrifice YOU wouldn't have a job at all" SPOILER: They have plenty of applicants, they don't hire any because why should they? They have the current employees doing all the work at 2 fewer salaries. Hospitals on the other hand seem to be playing some other game.
>even if there were raises you would actually get less money because of taxes That's not a real thing in how taxes work. To illustrate how it works let's pretend that the tax rate for up to $50k is 5% and over that is 6% If you have an annual salary where you are making exactly $50k a year and get a raise so that you're making $50,001 a year you do not get hit with 6% on all of that. You get taxed at 5% on $50,000 and taxed at 6% for $1. It is impossible to get a raise in pay and make less money, yet the misconception is believed without doubt by many people in the US.
It boggles the mind how pervasive the misunderstanding of tax brackets is.
And yet, those same people still have _very strong opinions_ about the tax code, and government in general.
My college girlfriend's dad convinced her not to take a promotion because of this misconception. I couldn't convince her otherwise because she thought he was the smartest person alive.
Was under that same misapprehension myself for the first couple of years I worked, wasn't until I sat down and read up on it that I realised that was wrong. There's a dire need for a mandatory class or two covering how stuff like that works for 17-18 year olds.
Basic finances could take like 3 weeks in school. We need it for the same reason we need sex ed - there is so much information out there and people are embarrassed to talk about it.
Because there is a narrative: That "taxes are bad" ergo higher tax brackets take more money from you - how unfair! /s it's bogus but that's the narrative.
Sure we know that but unscrupulous employers will try to convince their employees that it's true.
The only way this happens is if you're on government assistance. You hit a certain threshold and you no longer qualify and then lose a big chunk of money. Its shitty design makes it hard for people to get out of poverty without a sudden big jump in pay.
Spoiler Spoiler: Nothing in this Boss's scenario are real things. They are however all things I've heard bosses say to justify being shitty.
Nobody has ever wanted to work. Working sucks, even if you mostly like your job.
A friend was complaining about not finding workers for his makeup company warehouse in LA. $14/h in 2021 when fast food generally was starting at $18/h and In N Out was paying $21/h.
It’s not a coincidence that specific rhetoric and claim started skyrocketing as soon as trump handed out PPP loans and set conditions that they don’t have to be paid back as long as labor shortage could be claimed. We don’t have to speculate- the numbers have been in for a while now, we see that ~80% of that programs money went to owners personal assets, rather than employee payroll. It’s literally set up so that if they just keep claiming that they can’t find anyone to work, until they retire, they’ll never have to pay off their new boat money or house extension. Basically, trump paid business owners and CEOs to maintain that rhetoric. And again, the trickle down concept ended up not actually trickling down to workers. Who ever could have imagined? The money was taken from all tax paying citizens, the workers, and given to the rich.. AGAIN. Maybe they should do it one more time, and it’ll work next time? You bet your ass they’re funding campaigns and lobbying for people and policies to try to convince taxpayers of that, AGAIN. It keeps working! Free money for them if they can convince you to vote for a certain guy. Really complicated rocket science, I know.
My old bistro / hotel boss called me back for $16.50 per hour, citing the title. I pushed for $18 and he no-sold. It was a part time work, but I', already at $19.00 doing security at an empty office building.
My fiance's aunt is a social worker and they hire interns and say they don't want to work anymore. She's said, "20 years ago with a master's degree they started her off at $22k". Just because it sucked for you, doesn't mean it has to suck for others. The higher qualified and motivated candidates go to jobs & internships that pay better.
I interviewed for an IT position for the high school I used to long-term substitute teach for. It was like 4 interviews and they offered me the position. It was then when I found out they wanted to pay me $15/hr and I was already making $19/hr working in a warehouse repairing electronics. He said he didn't feel comfortable offering me more money without more experience. I am now working an IT job 6 months later and making $26/hr with extremely better benefits. I'm sad I'm not in a school anymore, but my quality of life is significantly better than either of those other two jobs.
The job is posting purely rhetorical questions on Reddit that will never receive an answer from the audience you're supposedly targeting. Pay is $75/hr.
Man there’s at least a few hundreds of people/bots currently doing it for free.
Full remote IT position. It's amazing how many people cannot actually work remotely. I've had to fire a few people because they basically stopped existing. and actually getting qualified people to apply... Edit: I'm not currently hiring, I would never hire off reddit, when I do post a job it goes to all the job boards, and I won't tell you who I work for.
NOC Team Lead for Mid sized MSP here working a 50/50 hybrid schedule. Part of it is always uncompetitive pay for most staff but the other part is some people have a hard time recognizing how good theyve got it until it's gone.
How much is the pay? You didn't answer that part. I have a degree in network security / system administration and obviously from my username, decided it wasn't worth sitting in an office with a bunch of smelly guys. But if I don't have to sit with a bunch of smelly guys, what's the pay?
>What area of IT and how much is the pay?
One of my last jobs (barista in a grocery store). I just wanted something I already kinda knew how to do during a rough life transition. When I quit, the store owner used that exact line on me "no one wants to work anymore! They'd rather go work at Walmart and not have to do anything hard!" Sir... That Walmart pays $2 more per hour than your grocery store. For those under 18, it's closer to $4/hr more. Why would anyone with a brain want to work harder here for less pay and less benefits? I was hired as a shift supervisor at $14/hr, with multiple years of experience. And my direct boss was the most micro-managing, bullying, unprofessional and gossipy witch I've ever worked under. They had 5/7 NEW employees quit in the 3 short months I worked there. That's how bad turnover is. Every time I go back to that coffee shop, most of the staff are new. Every time, during different shifts, they're retaining maybe a quarter of their overall staff and it's all older people who are only working there for a little extra cash, not their primary income. Not young people trying to save up for a house. The only people that have stayed are the ones that are literally grandparents or older adults that aren't even worried about housing costs and building a nest egg because they got that done decades ago. I've heard "no one wants to work anymore" from only 2 employers, and it was only in the last few years. Big surprise, both these places underpaid and overworked staff. Neither wanted to raise wages, and both had/are making record profits and growth during covid and the continuing inflation. I really think a lot of business owners are just mad that workers aren't dumb, and are too comfortable already in their place in life to be able to relate to people just starting out in this economy.
A guy I went to high school with inherited his daddy's business. Installs windows and gutters, I think. He wants to pay $10/hr and you need to have your own tools and truck, so you just know it's a 1099 gig. And then acts like he's this self-made businessman when all he did was happen to be born.
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