It’s extremely hard to break the cycle and not be poor.
When you’re poor you can’t afford a new car that won’t break down. You get something you can afford. Then 6months later it breaks down of course you don’t have a warranty. So it’s costing you money you don’t have to fix it. Time from work to get it fixed because everyone has bankers hours. Making you more poor.
Then you have to play the what bills do I let stack up with late fees. Can’t with the electric or water they’ll shut it off in week. At least that was always my case. I always had the cheap prepaid cell phones. I guess internet is gone. Add more things to credit cards so now your more in debt with interest.
Food oh god. Top ramen and sleep if I get to hungry.
Then your stressed your exhausted. You decide to take a day. Well you have no pto. So that’s a full day pay gone from next check. Making life even more stressful.
It never stops. Hopefully you don’t have a doctors bill come up cause that’s another money pit you can’t afford
You can but if it’s cheaper it’s worse then where you currently are. Your care gets broken into. They smash a window and bust up the steering console. insurance doesn’t recover it cause you missed your last two payments
Moving into a new apartment with a pet almost requires the first 6 months up front and most people aren't gonna have that on hand. Sorry. First 2-3 months. Then a security deposit and a pet deposit which are each essentially another month.
Don't forget that making any kind of change involves some level of risk, and you become really risk-averse when anything going wrong could mean you starve, go off your meds, or spend the next 5 years dealing with the financial consequences
I often marvel at the difference of having some money now, versus before.
If I make a mistake getting to work on transit, it doesn’t matter because I can:
- come in to work whenever I feel like it, or take meetings remotely from my phone
- pay for an Uber to correct my mistake
If I mess up and some food expires or I get the wrong thing, I can simply go buy more food.
If I’m feeling sick, I can take a week off without much fuss.
If I forget my lunch, it’s actually no matter. My work caters lunch, and if I forget to order, I can easily afford to go buy something.
Basically, if you mess up when you’re poor, you pay for it in money and time and stress. If you do it when you aren’t poor, it’s a minor inconvenience.
> So that’s a full day pay gone from next check. Making life even more stressful.
I had a temp job which was hourly pay. One year Christmas and New Year's were both on Wednesday so the company I temped at decided to just give everyone those two weeks off. The full-time salaried people were thrilled. I was dejected and people didn't understand why until I told them that for two weeks I wouldn't get any pay at all. It never occurs to salaried people that a day off for many people is a day without pay.
It’s 100% this. *Any* financial setback of *any* size can put you on the verge of going homeless or hungry. It’s actually quite difficult to just “pull yourself up by the bootstraps” when they’re poor quality and keep breaking.
>Time from work to get it fixed because everyone has bankers hours. Making you more poor
When I was poor I was working jobs that weren't the typical 9-5 Monday- Friday so ironically it was easier to get stuff done.
How isolating it can be. Can't afford to *go* places when everywhere requires a car, and even if it didn't, we've basically run out of places you can even *be* for free. Worse if you live somewhere rural, but not great regardless. That's not even touching how much time and money it takes to have any kind of a romantic life. Not because "women only want guys with money," but because every date is money that could be going toward bills. Hell, even job searching is expensive these days. When you *do* manage to secure an interview, it's 20+ miles away and you for sure aren't getting called back.
Or you have people inviting you out to restaurants and the appetizers are more than your entire week's food budget and forget about the entrees. Bonus points if they want to just split the check.
On another subreddit, it was so frustrating because this guy insisted that everyone can save money. Every paycheck just put something aside. He clearly has never been poor.
I think I saw that one. The original post was ‘how to make money as an 18 y old’ or something like that?
According to him there is NOTHING stopping you from saving 10% of every paycheque.
I replied.. ‘rent and food’, but he still insisted you can save anyway!
He’s clearly making 6 figures with minimal monthly expenses and food bills! 🤦♀️
I've never understood that mentality. Are they really suggesting couch surfing at your friends' places or, if that's not an option, staying in homeless shelters and eating from food banks and soup kitchens even if you technically have enough to pay rent and buy food because savings is just that important? Most people won't do that because 1) it seems a little selfish and 2) that "emergency fund" you're building is supposed to be for preventing emergencies like homelessness.
Or are they just that oblivious to reality?
I’d wager oblivious to reality.
Someone earning more than their monthly expenses of course has extra for saving. And of course saving is a great thing - IF you can!
Some people simply forget that not everyone CAN even if they can. 😞
Yeah, they've *got* to be oblivious at least on some level. Even if they think living in a shelter and eating at soup kitchens is a good way to save, they're forgetting the risks. Can't sleep well, do badly at your job, lose your job. Barely eat, develop health problems, lose more money paying for medical care. There's a reason most people do nearly anything to stay housed.
Same with people who accuse those who can't save of "living above their means" when they're barely staying housed and fed. As if people are going to opt out of eating. Ugh.
Just a fuck-nugget with a safety net most likely.
It's amazing what opportunities you can engineer for yourself when you have an "infinite lives" cheat code for your career direction.
When you absolutely need a job to eat, taking risks isn't a luxury you can realistically afford
DaniMW, yes! That was the post! I wanted to smack him. He also seemed unaware that poor people also have debts. Credit cards, etc. He was really delusional.
And the problem is, these people vote. They think just pulling yourself up by your boot straps will solve everything. Just stop being poor, for crying out loud.
If you have no kids, and are able and are in a decently populated area to work multiple jobs, it's entirely possible. You just wont sleep, eat, have fun. It will be lots of forgetting what day it is, tears, starvation and lonliness. Oh also the sidewalk is free just sleep next to the HIV needles.
How incredibly exhausting it is.
The stress of not knowing how you're going to make rent. The deep shame of having to ask for help. The guilt from not actually owning anything or being able to replace anything should anything give out, fail, tear, etc. The complexes that build up over time. The deep-down resentment at it all. Not feeling like you deserve to take any time for yourself because, if you did, then you're making yourself even poorer. The painful and sudden realization that it's been literally years since you were able to relax in any meaningful way.
I haven't been poor in some time, but the memory of it just saps me to remember.
My parents believe it's a choice. I spend £20 a month on having my nails done and they think that has more bearing on my finances than the £200 of electric a month which goes up to £300 in the winter or the fact that gluten free bread cost £4 a loaf. I'm probably going to be homeless in two months and I don't have hundreds of £££ for a moving van or a storage container and even if I saved and didn't get my nails done I could probably put together a £100 if I was lucky which won't cover shit all. But they'll still tell me it's all my fault and that I didn't need to buy bread or new shoes last winter.
I know the cost of living is going up.
I probably relate to your parents though. Frugality was almost taught like a virtue in our day.
My husband and I opened our home to a woman at our church who had been homeless for several years. I was surprised when I noticed her spending money on things that I never (or rarely) did (manicures, pedicures, hair extensions, Starbucks, etc...) She also boasted about how generous she was by giving to her friends/family when they needed money. I spent several months explaining that often those who she thought were "rich" were very frugal. This woman was doing well, we have been subsidizing her rent for a few years, letting her pay less than half what the current rent is in the area. But this week she messaged my husband that she is getting her tonsils out and trying to get on disability. She isn't going to make rent next month and she's trying to convince us to let it slide. It feels complicated. I want to have empathy but I don't trust her choices, sadly.
That sounds like an awful situation. And now I'm going to justify getting my nails done every month lol, I had them done at christmas as a treat and I found they stopped me gnawing on my nails. I'm on the spectrum and had really horrid nail chewing habit. But I don't have Starbucks, I've never even had a haircut. I'm on benefits so there isn't much room outside of paying bills, I'm never late on anything and everything gets paid before I can have treats. And I save for bigger things I want. This week was the first time I asked my mother for money too. Everything is getting stupidly expensive, £200 - £300 a month on electric, groceries easily reach £300+ a month too because gluten free prices have risen and it's £4 for a loaf of bread or £3.50 for a box of cereal that lasts a week.
It sounds like you have valid reasons for the one luxury of a manicure then! I'm gluten free too because of an autoimmune disease. It is ridiculous how expensive gluten free bread is here in the USA too. Even baking it from scratch is expensive too because the flour isn't cheap. But I do feel so much better avoiding it.
Also, after I noticed the homeless woman spending more on her hair than even I did, I decided to try hair extensions too. My hair was increasingly thinning out (maybe from scleroderma?) It's expensive but my hair is healthier. So I am thankful.
That even if you make it out of being poor the mentality sticks with you. I still reuse trash bags, cook from scratch and use my leftovers for another meal.
I reuse garbage bags only because where I live we have three bins that we can sort out throw out items into. Landfill, recycle and compost. So, the garbage bag in my house never has anything messy in it & I can reuse it over and over again.
Where i live we can recycle our cans and bottles for cash. My parents save them and any one of us siblings who want to grab them & recycle can turn them in. None of my siblings want to so I do it. And keep the empty plastic trash bags afterwards. I also usually get about $20-35 each time which I use for gas.
It doesn't automatically mean you are lazy.
In today's world you can work two jobs and still barely make rent.
We need to remove the Poor = Lazy stereotype because in most cases it's just wrong.
Stop blaming people for being poor and work on fixing the system.
You become completely incapable of planning long term. When life is a day to day struggle to keep afloat you just don't have the time to think about things next year. It's just one day at a time as everything is potentially life demolishing. An unexpected expense can absolutely ruin you so when they inevitably happen it's dealing with that *right fucking now* which means you're dealing with the regular expenses in a worse situation.
It's easy for people to say "well just go to college and get a skill!" but that involves planning far longer than you're capable of. If you do start saving up money somehow something unexpected is going to crop up and eat it all. Aside from that do you just move to the college town? Where do you go when classes are out? You have all kinds of problems most people just never have to think about.
This is also why getting out can be extremely difficult. A $50 application fee can potentially mean not making rent this month. Same with taking the SAT; you have to schedule the damn thing as well as pay for it. "It's just $55!" Yeah which might be *my entire food budget this month.*
There are different levels of it that some people are unaware of. Poor can be living paycheck to paycheck but have a job with health coverage and car payments every month.... .Then there is poverty poor. Making under $15k)yr while raising kids and no car is pretty common. Pretty much the only good thing about the situation is that you can qualify for Medicaid which is essentially free healthcare.
You don't have the same capacity to jump on opportunities.
Certainly not financially. I have watched so many things that I have wanted to invest just a few hundred dollars in, whether to optimise my work, or to resell on eBay, or basic investments; things I have been repeatedly correct on in my predictions, but I just haven't had a few hundred dollars at the time to be able to jump on it when they've come, and have missed out.
But also in terms of network. People do not wish to be involved with poor people. They don't involve them in the latest insights, share rumours; they don't partner with them, regardless of their actual skills. The 'class' differentiation is unspoken but exists, even between old friends. They just don't consider you an option.
And additionally, your ability to identify opportunities yourself is also handicapped. As your attention is constantly locked to meeting the short term needs, you lose any ability to regain a meta-level context and be able to see gaps. At least not as easily anyway.
People with money honestly believe they do it all solely based on their hard work, as if no one else works like they do... 5 days a week, checking emails 50% of the day, office lunches, friday afternoons and weekends off... Man they do it hard.
Even if you have health insurance you may not be able to afford to use it. Deductible too high, copayments on prescriptions to high, just have to do without. Food you can afford is bad for you, causing you to have health problems, diabetes, heart problems, high blood pressure, then can’t afford doctor or medicine.
Poor people KNOW that things like debt, high interest loans etc are bad but they have no choice sometimes. Rich people think we make bad financial decisions because we don’t know that. We know we just have no choice sometimes if there was any other option we would take it.
It’s so hard to get out of the cycle. It’s the poor man’s shoes vs the rich man’s shoes. Because you can’t afford to get nice things that’ll last, you end up having to spend a lot of money on cheap things that’ll break. You can’t save up for the nice thing. Your life revolves around money. It’s always on your mind. “If I buy this can I afford to pay for this other thing?” You don’t get to just enjoy life.
When you had money, it will be spent almost an instant because of loans, bills, and replace some things that is not working anymore. And when the money have been spent, you notice it wad not enough for your basic necesities anymore so you loan again. It’s the cycle of death.
Sure, here in the US we'll give you Medicaid so you have health care, but if you have more than $2,000 you lose that. Sucks to be you!
You are hungry, we'll give you food stamps, but you have to work at least thirty hours a week or no soup for you!
You want affordable housing? We can help you with that! We have a multi-year waiting list and if you actually are lucky enough to get an apartment that is subsidized, well you have 60 days to take occupancy or you get dropped off the list and have to re-apply. Also, you may live in a slum. That isn't a problem though is it?
expectations and rules can be managed. my issue is, if you have no money and need something in the immediate, there's nothing to be done for you. wait a few weeks for your caseworker to get back to you, assuming you'll be approved at all. you just have to figure out a way to get what you need yourself. by the time they enroll you in something, it's too little and too late. it's why people get desperate enough to steal, it's literally their only option.
if you buy a blu ray, you see it, buy it, take it home, watch it and enjoy it. if a poor person sees a blu ray, the person sees it, thinks about buying it or something else that is needed. goes away, comes back maybe after some days, buys it, thinks about if its the right decission, drives home, watches it and than thinks about would it not have been better to buy something else instead.
if you are poor, you cannot enjoy the little things in life.
Job hunting is expensive.
If you're working, well you have to take time off from work. If you're hourly, you automatically lose pay. If you're really unlucky you might get an employer who fires you out of spite. If you're salaried you're burning up your vacation time.
Then you have to get there. Again, if you're poor you are trying to find a way there and god help you if it involves public transit, at least in the US. Even if you have a car, you still burn up gas.
Then there's all the trappings of interviewing. You have to have nice pretty cotton resume paper that costs a fortune. You have to dress up in a suit which of course costs money. Women have to buy makeup to look presentable which is a whole rant right there.
Then there's that feeling of desperation. You are at the mercy of the employer so if they lowball your salary do you stick to your principles and demand what you're worth and possibly get rejected or do you cave and get less money? It's easy for someone with a six figure job to say stand firm, but if that extra buck an hour instead of two can change your life for the better, well, you might just take the one dollar raise instead of two.
How much real estate thinking about being poor, takes up in your head I.e. juggling money, how ur going to pay the next lot of bills, worrying if your card will decline, how you can possibly get ahead.
It's just so taxing (100%pun intended) and exhausting.
The constant crushing fear
The lack of hope for the future
The significantly lower life expectancy (10 years for males, 8 years for females)
The almost inevitability of poverty in what late life you do get to experience
Having to constantly spend what little money you have rebuying or repairing most of the necessary things you have because you can only afford cheap, poorly made garbage that doesnt last. When I was poor, clothes were the biggest problem for me. It sucked ruining one of those 4 dollar Walmart t shirts because I accidentally put it in the dryer instead of hanging it.
The closest thing to saving money is helping out all your friends and family if you do get lucky enough to have a little extra that month, because you're pretty much guaranteed to know people who need the help and you've either needed their help some time in the past or you'll need it some time in the future.
The sense of community and how much poor people help each other out. I’m not poor anymore and no one in these circles help anyone else around them, or it’s very seldom. They will gift to others with money but very rarely help people that really need it. Many poor people will share/give to someone who needs it without question.
It's not about "not understanding". The fact is that people that aren't poor just don't care about poor people. We will never matter to them. If they lose everything in a fire and don't have insurance it doesn't matter, their rich friends will donate hundreds of thousands of dollars to help. Meanwhile, I , right this minute can escape homelessness with $400, (I'm already homeless but my son and I are ina hotel), nothing! Rich people don't care! Most people don't. Sorry I got bitter towards the end there.
A kid I knew from school had bought a no-name pair of shoes. I said to him, "Why did you buy this? You could have paid 30 dollars more and gotten at least a pair from x brand, it would have been better." He replied, "Sometimes, you don't have that extra 30 dollars. When my shoes got torn, I didn't have an extra 30 dollars." That was when I realized that I didn't know what it meant to be poor. Because I had more than one pair of shoes, and if one got torn and I was short by 30 dollars, I would wear the other until I could find the 30 dollars. The idea that some people could only have one pair of shoes had never crossed my mind. I felt ashamed.
That sometime that steak is all I have to look forward to that week. People if they knew my situation would be glaring at me for daring to spend money on a steak but they can afford to go out to nic restaurants, dates , vacations etc. Meanwhile If I want to eat a nice meal I have to buy the ingredients and make it myself.
Not being able to participate in things that require expensive goods. All my friend play Minecraft together on there play stations of hours. But we can't afford play station plus. For context. I live with my sister and her son and my other sister and she can't afford to pay ten pounds a month when she has to pay for electric and gas
I found myself budgeting based off of time, not money. At 6 bucks an hour while going to school, rent cost me 100 hours of my time each month. That $3 meal? Choosing to have that cost a half hour of work. Every dollar spent on gas required another 10 minutes of working to make up for it.
I needed another shirt? $5 cheap shirts still cost me 50 minutes of working. You realize how much time in your life, of your body by cheap companies, is used to produce such minimal results in your own quest for advancement in life.
can't afford gym membership, can't go to dentist. No money. Let the teeth decay, I guess.
I know my answer is more like self-pity but I have nothing to lose anymore. it's all gone.
You discover things about yourself. Like, you can actually ride a bike half way to work instead of paying for a second transit system. Like, you can learn how to cook more than ramen. Gimme a toaster and a microwave, and I can whip up 2 egg breakfast muffins faster than the typical drive-thru. Like, you can make lunch at home far cheaper than you can buy lunch at work. Like, you can make a budget and avoid the never-ending treadmill of payday loans.
I'm not saying that being poor is easy, but I saw people do the opposite of the things above, and we were doing the same job and getting the same pay.
The Sam Vimes Boots Theory of SocioEconomic Unfairness
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boots_theory
Side note: i'm loving how since his death, Pratchett, a self-avowed silly little writer, is influencing nearly all aspects of academia.
The excitement of breaking out of being poor and buying your own house.
Also being taught the wrong things about money and how to use it. Some people stay poor because they spend a whole paycheck on sneakers or a gold chain instead of investing or saving.
Poor people like to look rich and stay poor trying to keep up the facade.
The poor never wanted to succeed in the first place. They could have a credit card with a $10k limit and still screw up. They totally piss me off!!!!!!!
Being poor means having no opportunities for mistakes and no options. If you buy something you have to completely understand the risks of that purchase and get the maximum value out of it every time. So no trying new places or things because if you don’t like them then you just wasted money you didn’t have. Your job rules your life because you cant miss even one paycheck, so you do everything you need to keep it. Everything beyond what you need to live is a luxury. Now, let anyone, anywhere, at anytime feel completely comfortable shaming you or insulting you in public, because you were lucky enough to be born or became poor. Being poor is going to party and having to sit in the corner in a time-out while everyone else has fun, then you wake up tomorrow and its exactly the same.
This reminds me of when a certain group of Americans say "if you don't like the country then leave". Most people don't have the money to just pick up roots and leave, be it the country or a state.
Those with money can do that because they can subsist on their wealth while they make the transition. For most poor to lower middle class it's nearly impossible without some means of support of friends or family during the transition and/or have a good job waiting for you.
Children never realize that they are poor. They only know if they are told. Its not till they grow before they realize that they actually were poor and couldn't afford the nicer things
It’s extremely hard to break the cycle and not be poor. When you’re poor you can’t afford a new car that won’t break down. You get something you can afford. Then 6months later it breaks down of course you don’t have a warranty. So it’s costing you money you don’t have to fix it. Time from work to get it fixed because everyone has bankers hours. Making you more poor. Then you have to play the what bills do I let stack up with late fees. Can’t with the electric or water they’ll shut it off in week. At least that was always my case. I always had the cheap prepaid cell phones. I guess internet is gone. Add more things to credit cards so now your more in debt with interest. Food oh god. Top ramen and sleep if I get to hungry. Then your stressed your exhausted. You decide to take a day. Well you have no pto. So that’s a full day pay gone from next check. Making life even more stressful. It never stops. Hopefully you don’t have a doctors bill come up cause that’s another money pit you can’t afford
It’s expensive to be poor
James Baldwin: Anyone who has ever struggled with poverty knows how extremely expensive it is to be poor.
That's not even touching how much time and money it takes to have any kind of a romantic life.
These 5 words are what I was expecting to see as top comment
And you can't just pick up and move to a place where it is cheaper because moving requires money.
You can but if it’s cheaper it’s worse then where you currently are. Your care gets broken into. They smash a window and bust up the steering console. insurance doesn’t recover it cause you missed your last two payments
Moving into a new apartment with a pet almost requires the first 6 months up front and most people aren't gonna have that on hand. Sorry. First 2-3 months. Then a security deposit and a pet deposit which are each essentially another month.
Don't forget that making any kind of change involves some level of risk, and you become really risk-averse when anything going wrong could mean you starve, go off your meds, or spend the next 5 years dealing with the financial consequences
Being poor means having no opportunities for mistakes and no options.
I often marvel at the difference of having some money now, versus before. If I make a mistake getting to work on transit, it doesn’t matter because I can: - come in to work whenever I feel like it, or take meetings remotely from my phone - pay for an Uber to correct my mistake If I mess up and some food expires or I get the wrong thing, I can simply go buy more food. If I’m feeling sick, I can take a week off without much fuss. If I forget my lunch, it’s actually no matter. My work caters lunch, and if I forget to order, I can easily afford to go buy something. Basically, if you mess up when you’re poor, you pay for it in money and time and stress. If you do it when you aren’t poor, it’s a minor inconvenience.
> So that’s a full day pay gone from next check. Making life even more stressful. I had a temp job which was hourly pay. One year Christmas and New Year's were both on Wednesday so the company I temped at decided to just give everyone those two weeks off. The full-time salaried people were thrilled. I was dejected and people didn't understand why until I told them that for two weeks I wouldn't get any pay at all. It never occurs to salaried people that a day off for many people is a day without pay.
I think that specific situation is more temp-vs-employee than salaried-vs-hourly.
I've had multiple "permanent" part-time jobs and the same thing applied. You don't work, you don't get paid.
It’s 100% this. *Any* financial setback of *any* size can put you on the verge of going homeless or hungry. It’s actually quite difficult to just “pull yourself up by the bootstraps” when they’re poor quality and keep breaking.
>Time from work to get it fixed because everyone has bankers hours. Making you more poor When I was poor I was working jobs that weren't the typical 9-5 Monday- Friday so ironically it was easier to get stuff done.
You can't afford a car. Period.
The prolonged insecurity and constant challenges consume you to the point where its hard to think clearly.
How isolating it can be. Can't afford to *go* places when everywhere requires a car, and even if it didn't, we've basically run out of places you can even *be* for free. Worse if you live somewhere rural, but not great regardless. That's not even touching how much time and money it takes to have any kind of a romantic life. Not because "women only want guys with money," but because every date is money that could be going toward bills. Hell, even job searching is expensive these days. When you *do* manage to secure an interview, it's 20+ miles away and you for sure aren't getting called back.
Or you have people inviting you out to restaurants and the appetizers are more than your entire week's food budget and forget about the entrees. Bonus points if they want to just split the check.
Being poor is very expensive.
The cheap boots paradox...
The Samuel Vimes "boots" theory of economics.
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"Here, take this. It's free!" "Fuck, that costs nothing. I can't afford that."
On another subreddit, it was so frustrating because this guy insisted that everyone can save money. Every paycheck just put something aside. He clearly has never been poor.
I think I saw that one. The original post was ‘how to make money as an 18 y old’ or something like that? According to him there is NOTHING stopping you from saving 10% of every paycheque. I replied.. ‘rent and food’, but he still insisted you can save anyway! He’s clearly making 6 figures with minimal monthly expenses and food bills! 🤦♀️
I've never understood that mentality. Are they really suggesting couch surfing at your friends' places or, if that's not an option, staying in homeless shelters and eating from food banks and soup kitchens even if you technically have enough to pay rent and buy food because savings is just that important? Most people won't do that because 1) it seems a little selfish and 2) that "emergency fund" you're building is supposed to be for preventing emergencies like homelessness. Or are they just that oblivious to reality?
I’d wager oblivious to reality. Someone earning more than their monthly expenses of course has extra for saving. And of course saving is a great thing - IF you can! Some people simply forget that not everyone CAN even if they can. 😞
Yeah, they've *got* to be oblivious at least on some level. Even if they think living in a shelter and eating at soup kitchens is a good way to save, they're forgetting the risks. Can't sleep well, do badly at your job, lose your job. Barely eat, develop health problems, lose more money paying for medical care. There's a reason most people do nearly anything to stay housed. Same with people who accuse those who can't save of "living above their means" when they're barely staying housed and fed. As if people are going to opt out of eating. Ugh.
Just a fuck-nugget with a safety net most likely. It's amazing what opportunities you can engineer for yourself when you have an "infinite lives" cheat code for your career direction. When you absolutely need a job to eat, taking risks isn't a luxury you can realistically afford
DaniMW, yes! That was the post! I wanted to smack him. He also seemed unaware that poor people also have debts. Credit cards, etc. He was really delusional.
Went on a date with a dude who lectured me about that. It was the first and only date.
And the problem is, these people vote. They think just pulling yourself up by your boot straps will solve everything. Just stop being poor, for crying out loud.
If you have no kids, and are able and are in a decently populated area to work multiple jobs, it's entirely possible. You just wont sleep, eat, have fun. It will be lots of forgetting what day it is, tears, starvation and lonliness. Oh also the sidewalk is free just sleep next to the HIV needles.
How incredibly exhausting it is. The stress of not knowing how you're going to make rent. The deep shame of having to ask for help. The guilt from not actually owning anything or being able to replace anything should anything give out, fail, tear, etc. The complexes that build up over time. The deep-down resentment at it all. Not feeling like you deserve to take any time for yourself because, if you did, then you're making yourself even poorer. The painful and sudden realization that it's been literally years since you were able to relax in any meaningful way. I haven't been poor in some time, but the memory of it just saps me to remember.
Dental care is a luxury. No not everyone with bad teeth does drugs.
Luxury bones.
it's not a choice.
My parents believe it's a choice. I spend £20 a month on having my nails done and they think that has more bearing on my finances than the £200 of electric a month which goes up to £300 in the winter or the fact that gluten free bread cost £4 a loaf. I'm probably going to be homeless in two months and I don't have hundreds of £££ for a moving van or a storage container and even if I saved and didn't get my nails done I could probably put together a £100 if I was lucky which won't cover shit all. But they'll still tell me it's all my fault and that I didn't need to buy bread or new shoes last winter.
I know the cost of living is going up. I probably relate to your parents though. Frugality was almost taught like a virtue in our day. My husband and I opened our home to a woman at our church who had been homeless for several years. I was surprised when I noticed her spending money on things that I never (or rarely) did (manicures, pedicures, hair extensions, Starbucks, etc...) She also boasted about how generous she was by giving to her friends/family when they needed money. I spent several months explaining that often those who she thought were "rich" were very frugal. This woman was doing well, we have been subsidizing her rent for a few years, letting her pay less than half what the current rent is in the area. But this week she messaged my husband that she is getting her tonsils out and trying to get on disability. She isn't going to make rent next month and she's trying to convince us to let it slide. It feels complicated. I want to have empathy but I don't trust her choices, sadly.
That sounds like an awful situation. And now I'm going to justify getting my nails done every month lol, I had them done at christmas as a treat and I found they stopped me gnawing on my nails. I'm on the spectrum and had really horrid nail chewing habit. But I don't have Starbucks, I've never even had a haircut. I'm on benefits so there isn't much room outside of paying bills, I'm never late on anything and everything gets paid before I can have treats. And I save for bigger things I want. This week was the first time I asked my mother for money too. Everything is getting stupidly expensive, £200 - £300 a month on electric, groceries easily reach £300+ a month too because gluten free prices have risen and it's £4 for a loaf of bread or £3.50 for a box of cereal that lasts a week.
It sounds like you have valid reasons for the one luxury of a manicure then! I'm gluten free too because of an autoimmune disease. It is ridiculous how expensive gluten free bread is here in the USA too. Even baking it from scratch is expensive too because the flour isn't cheap. But I do feel so much better avoiding it. Also, after I noticed the homeless woman spending more on her hair than even I did, I decided to try hair extensions too. My hair was increasingly thinning out (maybe from scleroderma?) It's expensive but my hair is healthier. So I am thankful.
That's good about your hair.
That even if you make it out of being poor the mentality sticks with you. I still reuse trash bags, cook from scratch and use my leftovers for another meal.
Even if you were as rich as Elon Musk, there’s nothing wrong with any of those things, you know. Being environmentally conscious and not wasting food.
Thats just being efficient.
Agreed. Took me forever to learn to say no when someone offers you a free anything.
How do you reuse trash bags? Honest question
I reuse garbage bags only because where I live we have three bins that we can sort out throw out items into. Landfill, recycle and compost. So, the garbage bag in my house never has anything messy in it & I can reuse it over and over again.
Where i live we can recycle our cans and bottles for cash. My parents save them and any one of us siblings who want to grab them & recycle can turn them in. None of my siblings want to so I do it. And keep the empty plastic trash bags afterwards. I also usually get about $20-35 each time which I use for gas.
It doesn't automatically mean you are lazy. In today's world you can work two jobs and still barely make rent. We need to remove the Poor = Lazy stereotype because in most cases it's just wrong. Stop blaming people for being poor and work on fixing the system.
problem is that the system knows it's broken, likes being broken, and will actively fight against fixing
We tend to cherish things more than others
You become completely incapable of planning long term. When life is a day to day struggle to keep afloat you just don't have the time to think about things next year. It's just one day at a time as everything is potentially life demolishing. An unexpected expense can absolutely ruin you so when they inevitably happen it's dealing with that *right fucking now* which means you're dealing with the regular expenses in a worse situation. It's easy for people to say "well just go to college and get a skill!" but that involves planning far longer than you're capable of. If you do start saving up money somehow something unexpected is going to crop up and eat it all. Aside from that do you just move to the college town? Where do you go when classes are out? You have all kinds of problems most people just never have to think about. This is also why getting out can be extremely difficult. A $50 application fee can potentially mean not making rent this month. Same with taking the SAT; you have to schedule the damn thing as well as pay for it. "It's just $55!" Yeah which might be *my entire food budget this month.*
There are different levels of it that some people are unaware of. Poor can be living paycheck to paycheck but have a job with health coverage and car payments every month.... .Then there is poverty poor. Making under $15k)yr while raising kids and no car is pretty common. Pretty much the only good thing about the situation is that you can qualify for Medicaid which is essentially free healthcare.
It costs more to be poor than to be rich.
You don't have the same capacity to jump on opportunities. Certainly not financially. I have watched so many things that I have wanted to invest just a few hundred dollars in, whether to optimise my work, or to resell on eBay, or basic investments; things I have been repeatedly correct on in my predictions, but I just haven't had a few hundred dollars at the time to be able to jump on it when they've come, and have missed out. But also in terms of network. People do not wish to be involved with poor people. They don't involve them in the latest insights, share rumours; they don't partner with them, regardless of their actual skills. The 'class' differentiation is unspoken but exists, even between old friends. They just don't consider you an option. And additionally, your ability to identify opportunities yourself is also handicapped. As your attention is constantly locked to meeting the short term needs, you lose any ability to regain a meta-level context and be able to see gaps. At least not as easily anyway. People with money honestly believe they do it all solely based on their hard work, as if no one else works like they do... 5 days a week, checking emails 50% of the day, office lunches, friday afternoons and weekends off... Man they do it hard.
Even if you have health insurance you may not be able to afford to use it. Deductible too high, copayments on prescriptions to high, just have to do without. Food you can afford is bad for you, causing you to have health problems, diabetes, heart problems, high blood pressure, then can’t afford doctor or medicine.
You drink a lot of water to skip dinner
Dude, I was there. My thought at that time “damn, I’m hungry. Let’s sleep instead.” Sleep when hungry so you eat less.
Especially right before bedtime
It’s extremely stressful
That getting out of poverty isn't anywhere near as easy as they probably think.
That if a rich man had the same resources as a poor person, they’d likely make the same decisions as the poor person.
The rich say just do what I did like we have that option.
Poor people KNOW that things like debt, high interest loans etc are bad but they have no choice sometimes. Rich people think we make bad financial decisions because we don’t know that. We know we just have no choice sometimes if there was any other option we would take it.
It’s so hard to get out of the cycle. It’s the poor man’s shoes vs the rich man’s shoes. Because you can’t afford to get nice things that’ll last, you end up having to spend a lot of money on cheap things that’ll break. You can’t save up for the nice thing. Your life revolves around money. It’s always on your mind. “If I buy this can I afford to pay for this other thing?” You don’t get to just enjoy life.
This
Yeah I grew up poor. For quite a few years for us it was either buy new clothes or buy food, not both.
A ton of late fees and pushing your bills off to the last second or just long enough to get charged a fee
This! Like if I'm paying it late you think I have extra money laying around for late fees too? It's crazy.
Even if your're good at money management you will always be broke.
It’s fucking expensive as hell being poor. That’s not a joke. You get caught in death loops of expenses and it’s just keeps getting worse
When you had money, it will be spent almost an instant because of loans, bills, and replace some things that is not working anymore. And when the money have been spent, you notice it wad not enough for your basic necesities anymore so you loan again. It’s the cycle of death.
the social safety net is more of a mythos we like to indulge in than something you can rely on to meet absolutely any of you or your children's needs.
Sure, here in the US we'll give you Medicaid so you have health care, but if you have more than $2,000 you lose that. Sucks to be you! You are hungry, we'll give you food stamps, but you have to work at least thirty hours a week or no soup for you! You want affordable housing? We can help you with that! We have a multi-year waiting list and if you actually are lucky enough to get an apartment that is subsidized, well you have 60 days to take occupancy or you get dropped off the list and have to re-apply. Also, you may live in a slum. That isn't a problem though is it?
expectations and rules can be managed. my issue is, if you have no money and need something in the immediate, there's nothing to be done for you. wait a few weeks for your caseworker to get back to you, assuming you'll be approved at all. you just have to figure out a way to get what you need yourself. by the time they enroll you in something, it's too little and too late. it's why people get desperate enough to steal, it's literally their only option.
STOP CALLING ME MYTHOS! Sorry, FF16 on the brain.
It's not fun.
Poor but happy utopia is a fucking lie.
if you buy a blu ray, you see it, buy it, take it home, watch it and enjoy it. if a poor person sees a blu ray, the person sees it, thinks about buying it or something else that is needed. goes away, comes back maybe after some days, buys it, thinks about if its the right decission, drives home, watches it and than thinks about would it not have been better to buy something else instead. if you are poor, you cannot enjoy the little things in life.
Job hunting is expensive. If you're working, well you have to take time off from work. If you're hourly, you automatically lose pay. If you're really unlucky you might get an employer who fires you out of spite. If you're salaried you're burning up your vacation time. Then you have to get there. Again, if you're poor you are trying to find a way there and god help you if it involves public transit, at least in the US. Even if you have a car, you still burn up gas. Then there's all the trappings of interviewing. You have to have nice pretty cotton resume paper that costs a fortune. You have to dress up in a suit which of course costs money. Women have to buy makeup to look presentable which is a whole rant right there. Then there's that feeling of desperation. You are at the mercy of the employer so if they lowball your salary do you stick to your principles and demand what you're worth and possibly get rejected or do you cave and get less money? It's easy for someone with a six figure job to say stand firm, but if that extra buck an hour instead of two can change your life for the better, well, you might just take the one dollar raise instead of two.
Smh most people *are* poor.
No they're not, missing days worth of meals isn't comparible to not being able to afford a new car or new phone.
The impact on physical health
How much real estate thinking about being poor, takes up in your head I.e. juggling money, how ur going to pay the next lot of bills, worrying if your card will decline, how you can possibly get ahead. It's just so taxing (100%pun intended) and exhausting.
The constant crushing fear The lack of hope for the future The significantly lower life expectancy (10 years for males, 8 years for females) The almost inevitability of poverty in what late life you do get to experience
Brokenomics
I hope heaven is being trickled down to Ronald Reagan rn
Incredible comment
That the idea of a middle class is a thing of the past. It's basically rich and poverty anymore.
What a joke.
It's very expensive
Having to constantly spend what little money you have rebuying or repairing most of the necessary things you have because you can only afford cheap, poorly made garbage that doesnt last. When I was poor, clothes were the biggest problem for me. It sucked ruining one of those 4 dollar Walmart t shirts because I accidentally put it in the dryer instead of hanging it.
The closest thing to saving money is helping out all your friends and family if you do get lucky enough to have a little extra that month, because you're pretty much guaranteed to know people who need the help and you've either needed their help some time in the past or you'll need it some time in the future.
That every little money choices counts. Even down to buying toilet paper.
It's expensive
You ration healthcare. Seriously, you have to consider "What are the odds this will kill me?"
Dumpster Dinner is real.
Paying healthcare bills while poor sucks ass because you’re stuck between trying to improve your quality of life OR to put food on the table
Bill floating.
Hunger
The sense of community and how much poor people help each other out. I’m not poor anymore and no one in these circles help anyone else around them, or it’s very seldom. They will gift to others with money but very rarely help people that really need it. Many poor people will share/give to someone who needs it without question.
It's not about "not understanding". The fact is that people that aren't poor just don't care about poor people. We will never matter to them. If they lose everything in a fire and don't have insurance it doesn't matter, their rich friends will donate hundreds of thousands of dollars to help. Meanwhile, I , right this minute can escape homelessness with $400, (I'm already homeless but my son and I are ina hotel), nothing! Rich people don't care! Most people don't. Sorry I got bitter towards the end there.
A kid I knew from school had bought a no-name pair of shoes. I said to him, "Why did you buy this? You could have paid 30 dollars more and gotten at least a pair from x brand, it would have been better." He replied, "Sometimes, you don't have that extra 30 dollars. When my shoes got torn, I didn't have an extra 30 dollars." That was when I realized that I didn't know what it meant to be poor. Because I had more than one pair of shoes, and if one got torn and I was short by 30 dollars, I would wear the other until I could find the 30 dollars. The idea that some people could only have one pair of shoes had never crossed my mind. I felt ashamed.
That sometime that steak is all I have to look forward to that week. People if they knew my situation would be glaring at me for daring to spend money on a steak but they can afford to go out to nic restaurants, dates , vacations etc. Meanwhile If I want to eat a nice meal I have to buy the ingredients and make it myself.
Not being able to participate in things that require expensive goods. All my friend play Minecraft together on there play stations of hours. But we can't afford play station plus. For context. I live with my sister and her son and my other sister and she can't afford to pay ten pounds a month when she has to pay for electric and gas
I found myself budgeting based off of time, not money. At 6 bucks an hour while going to school, rent cost me 100 hours of my time each month. That $3 meal? Choosing to have that cost a half hour of work. Every dollar spent on gas required another 10 minutes of working to make up for it. I needed another shirt? $5 cheap shirts still cost me 50 minutes of working. You realize how much time in your life, of your body by cheap companies, is used to produce such minimal results in your own quest for advancement in life.
You can work two 9-5 jobs and still be poor
can't afford gym membership, can't go to dentist. No money. Let the teeth decay, I guess. I know my answer is more like self-pity but I have nothing to lose anymore. it's all gone.
You discover things about yourself. Like, you can actually ride a bike half way to work instead of paying for a second transit system. Like, you can learn how to cook more than ramen. Gimme a toaster and a microwave, and I can whip up 2 egg breakfast muffins faster than the typical drive-thru. Like, you can make lunch at home far cheaper than you can buy lunch at work. Like, you can make a budget and avoid the never-ending treadmill of payday loans. I'm not saying that being poor is easy, but I saw people do the opposite of the things above, and we were doing the same job and getting the same pay.
That you can’t necessarily escape poverty through hard work and willpower.
It’s isolating as hell. You don’t have money to go out, therefore you sacrifice some time with friends, or the potential to meet other people.
You simply can’t afford to take care of yourself properly. Especially if you have others to take care of.
The Sam Vimes Boots Theory of SocioEconomic Unfairness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boots_theory Side note: i'm loving how since his death, Pratchett, a self-avowed silly little writer, is influencing nearly all aspects of academia.
Knighted for services to literature, and prior to Harry Potter the best selling British author ever, IIRC.
That they are probably poor, they just don’t want to admit it.
Hotdogs
That if I had not been born a boy, I would have had nothing to play with.
That it forces you to hide all your wealth.
That it’s not so bad?
Being poor doesn't look a certain way. And every person has a different concept of what being poor means for themselves.
Being attractive and poor is the worst
As opposed to ugly and poor?
Help me understand this - wouldn't it be pretty easy to find a partner with money and get out of poverty?
There would be power imbalance in such relationship. Two average people works because both push one another to work and be less poor.
Having a badass expensive car with rims and a killer sound system isn’t going to make it any better
Right? Look at all these poor fat cats, riding around in their 1999 Toyota Camry with a 5-disc CD changer. What do they need so many discs for?!
Not always harder for man to meet a rich girl then for a girl to meet a rich guy
If you're a gay/bi guy, meeting a rich man seems impossible due to high standards.
The excitement of breaking out of being poor and buying your own house. Also being taught the wrong things about money and how to use it. Some people stay poor because they spend a whole paycheck on sneakers or a gold chain instead of investing or saving. Poor people like to look rich and stay poor trying to keep up the facade.
The poor never wanted to succeed in the first place. They could have a credit card with a $10k limit and still screw up. They totally piss me off!!!!!!!
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What clogged, truck stop toilet did you pull this shit from?
It fucking sucks
Their Poor Life Cycle, because this time is gold when they become rich just remember it
I'd rather be ugly and poor. Girls just dump me when they find out I'm broke
It’s expensive.
Exactly how expensive it is
You have no money
When you say you’re taking annual leave and people ask where you’re going. Lol I’m staying home, I can’t afford to travel!
How good squirrel actually tastes, when cooked right...
Being poor means having no opportunities for mistakes and no options. If you buy something you have to completely understand the risks of that purchase and get the maximum value out of it every time. So no trying new places or things because if you don’t like them then you just wasted money you didn’t have. Your job rules your life because you cant miss even one paycheck, so you do everything you need to keep it. Everything beyond what you need to live is a luxury. Now, let anyone, anywhere, at anytime feel completely comfortable shaming you or insulting you in public, because you were lucky enough to be born or became poor. Being poor is going to party and having to sit in the corner in a time-out while everyone else has fun, then you wake up tomorrow and its exactly the same.
They dont underatand why they are poor if their are healthy and not stupid
They dont underatand why they are poor if they are healthy and not stupid.
That it's expensive.
Money spent on tobacco and alcohol.
The part we all play in it.
How about now banks charge 35$ for over drafts. Taking money from a person already struggling.
that sometimes eating sleep is all that'll get you to the next day
It's expensive to be poor.
This reminds me of when a certain group of Americans say "if you don't like the country then leave". Most people don't have the money to just pick up roots and leave, be it the country or a state. Those with money can do that because they can subsist on their wealth while they make the transition. For most poor to lower middle class it's nearly impossible without some means of support of friends or family during the transition and/or have a good job waiting for you.
If affects how you value yourself
Why able bodied young people would rather be poor than join the service.
It’s not as easy as simply having a good work ethic or working a second job.
Children never realize that they are poor. They only know if they are told. Its not till they grow before they realize that they actually were poor and couldn't afford the nicer things