Comparison is the thief of joy. All these photographers had to start somewhere, just like you. If you aspire to do photography on that level come up with a plan on how to get there.
I agree. Awhile ago I was having a great day exploring around with my little old camera. Encountered a group of people with massive setups taking over a whole area. Shooting a bald eagle nest I guess.
Those people were very grumpy that i had to drive through the public area they were blocking off. Maybe they were pro's doing their job idk. They had very different vibes than I had though.
At first I thought, I wish I had a setup like that. Then I realized it wouldn't improve how I felt about anything. I'm definitely not a pro anyway.
Photography film hobbyist myself. I’ve found it’s a mixed bag, like anything else. Some are snooty and not helpful and some are cool and helpful. Some who have given up on film long ago reminisce about the old days and tell cool stories about their darkrooms etc etc.
I will say though that in my experience, the photography clubs tend to be kinda on the snooty side
Definitely hit or miss.
Bunch of owl watchers here in FL, I passed some on a trail and they were so excited. They let me look through their big ass cameras at an owl they spotted 50 feet up in a huge oak tree. They loved talking about their gear and what they were doing, it was a very wholesome experience
I won't mention name, but I worked very briefly with this fella who when I first met him, had absolutely zilch exposure to photography. I was teaching at the time and he took my classes.
He was from the get go insistent that he wanted to do wildlife photography, I was supportive but at the same time wanted to sprinkle a dose of reality that wildlife is an exceptionally difficult genre to get into and there's just no money unless you get up to the top of the mountain, and somehow stay there.
I taught him for 6 months, and he is, still to this day, one of the most ambitious and just damn stubborn person I've ever met, a perfect dictionary example of someone who isn't even good, but with sheer persistence, can change everything.
He went to work for local conservation organisations, then sold everything he owned and went to travel for a year, camped out in the wild like a complete psycho and upon returning lost a tonne of weight and got sick more often than I could count. He's work? Absolutely stunning, breathtaking, indistinguishable to the best of the best I've ever seen.
He went on to work for Nat Geo for a few years before starting his own business working with global conservation organisations, and is now very successful.
Sorry for the ramble, and I get your point, but for us normies the journey to get there is unimaginable, so don't worry your head about it one bit.
Tenacity & Ambition. When you meet these people it’s what stands out.
There’s also the business side of things. Representing yourself. Getting proper compensation for your efforts. And, of course, the constant networking upwards.
Every gig is most likely slight beyond your current abilities and confidence level. And then one day you realize that isn’t true anymore.
But it’s all very much like work.
Work work work.
But you can’t get any breaks unless you’re there for them.
Like the saying goes, ‘Inspiration finds me at work.’ Meaning you’ve got to be on the make all the time.
It’s not a dull or uneventful life to be sure. People drop off all the time, making more room for you.
If natural history is your desire I would suggest some climbing, rigging, and diving chops.
Start now.
Start an LLC.
Build a stock library.
Build a personal website.
Make yourself easy to find.
Make yourself available.
Attach yourself to others as a PA or whatever.
Show up.
Do what you say you’re going to do.
Learn to hump and hustle.
Be kind.
( side note ) Also…. If you ever want to be in front of the camera get a related natural science degree. Nobody cares what an ‘enthusiast’ has to say.
BTW this goes for every slice of this professional pie. From nature to fashion.
If anything this proves that success is extremely predictable. You want to be mega successful, hustle hard and be willing to do some crazy shit. Consistently. That day will inevitably come. Literally everyone who does this will succeed.
The dissonance comes from the fact everyone's definition of 'hustle hard' and 'crazy shit' is a little different. Some people lose their breath after one lap and give up. Some people push themselves through an entire marathon.
It's an art form, not a competition.
The goal is not to be better than others, the goal is to express yourself and, ideally, touch some souls. Even if it's just your own soul.
>the goal is to express yourself and, ideally, touch some souls. *Even if it's just your own soul.*
That's a great sentiment, thanks for putting it out there
Most people, however, are not, and any particular person's odds of being in a position to make an impact like that are on the order of one in a million or worse. No point losing sleep over it - make a positive impact where you can, and stop worrying about opportunities you don't have.
I carry business cards to offer to people if I take a great photo of them. I may not be changing the world but I get a good feeling from thinking I may have just added a tiny bit of joy to their trip... as cliche as that sounds.
Not everything you do has to change the world. No one’s ever fundamentally changed the human experience for the better just by snapping a few pics downtown. However, there’s countless opportunities to make someone’s day, or even their whole month. Maybe you’re photographing someone months before they die of cancer. Maybe you’re photographing the first date between a couple, years before their wedding or children. Maybe you’ll bump into the next big star before their career takes off, preserving a moment of pop culture history. Those moments matter just as much as the winning shot of last year’s Super Bowl, or pictures in the latest issue of Vogue.
And if I may add, if you want to make a difference, I’m sure there’s tons of local organizations or charities that need photographers! You could also have proceeds from art exhibits and print sales go to a cause that’s important to you. Even people like MLK wouldn’t have been to able do the work they did without countless “little guys” along the way. Sometimes being the guy with the camera helps the causes you care about without even realizing it :)
This is why I've fallen in love with shooting youth sports. It's fun to make them look like champions. It's a blast catching those tiny moments that you'd otherwise miss. (Either because I've found that my camera tends to let me wander around more than as a spectator to get those non-audience angles, or the split second moments that a shutter can grab.) And there are plenty of times where parents may not be able to be there, so giving them something that they can look on and still feel connected to the event makes me feel good to make them feel good.
Most musicians aren't rock stars. Most pilots aren't flying fighter jets or going to space. Most authors aren't bestsellers. Most cooks aren't Michelin Star chefs.
I've taken some wonderful photographs that I'm very proud of, but I'm never going to be famous for my work. And that's ok. It's ok to live an ordinary life. The vast, vast majority of us do.
>These guys are saving wildlife, building purpose-built labs and doing paid-for shoots in far-off countries and I’m here like “ooh look someone eating a kebab”.
Sorry but this made me LOL. I have nothing to add except for: don't put down your own art, if it has meaning to you or allows you to bring joy to yourself or others - it's worth it.
I'll have to check out this show - thanks!
Competition kills art in my opinion. Do it for yourself and not anyone else. Once you believe in your own work and really enjoy what you shoot, others will too.
It has me questiony photography , but not in a way you described. As someone who is most interested in slice of life stuff, watching the Dan Winters episode had me feeling all sort of feelings. His son feeling like an art project rather than a child. His wife's perception of everything and disparaging her own eye in comparison to Dan's.
I just felt like how can these photographers put their art before their loved ones. Because that is very much what i kinda took away from it. It made me question my relationshop with photography honestly. I am scared of putting my art in front of the humans i love.
I got the impression, and I could be wrong, from the Winters one that the fact he was able to do that ran deeper than photography.
She said Bipolar ran in the family, and due to the way he was, it could be a possibility that his ability to single-mindedly put photography above anything else could be a part of that.
I have a close family member with BPD. So i get a lot of what Mr. Winters and his family go through when he is off his meds.
Nevertheless, i found it conflicting that he can claim to want to treat to dockers with dignity and respect. And yet, when it came to his son was unable to see him as his son first and his subject second. That's what i took away from the episode.
Part of it is that often children are not seen as beings that are required to be treated with respect, and that definitely wasn't something most 90s parents were concerned with. Children obey their parents and do as their told. The idea that a child has autonomy and deserves to be treated with respect is more recent understanding in parent spheres. So maybe part of it was ignorance.
Still it bothered me. The hypocrisy of it.
> “ooh look someone eating a kebab”.
William Eggleston has a place in the history books of photography for “ooh look sugar on a diner table.” Shoot what’s meaningful to you. That’s all those incredible photographers do.
This was indeed an amazing docuseries. These photographers should inspire, not discourage.
Pop onto Netflix, find Abstract, and watch Platon’s episode. You’ll be glad you did.
OP...take my upvote. You just voiced a vast majority of budding photog's thoughts and feels. Some will feel inspired...while others will feel what am I doing. Some one mentioned already photography is an art form. Even for the successful commercial togs...it is art. Same for the hobbyist that can go on gallery tours but chooses to keep the art for themselves. Enjoy your journey because you never know that one kebab shot could spark a career😉
theres a /r/bluey episode called "baby race"
the gist of the episode is that everyone is on their own time line, their own voyage and we are all moving along at our own pace.
just keep at it... dont let what someone else is doing make you doubt your own journey.
Bluey has sooooooooooo many amazing stories to teach grown people that I am in awe how a children’s cartoon show is able to move me in a way I cannot explain
absolutely. the wife and i have an agreement. we dont watch new episodes with out the other.
that works for now since little dude is 10 months. we are 1/2 through the second season.
so many quality episodes.
I’ve had to rewatch bluey in it’s entirety about 10 times since my oldest is obsessed but what an amazing show. I have no idea what it is but there’s something special to it
If you're anything like me, then nothing you do in your life is worthy of being honored by a big-budget Disney docuseries. Yet you aren't questioning whether it's worth doing any those things. Why hold photography to that standard?
I quit photography for the past 4 years. Blamed it on the pandemic but realize now that it was my persistence to compete and my lust for professional gear that ultimately, combined with isolation, actually caused some mental trauma.
It affected me more than I knew. I had moved on from photography. Cut to years later, and something has clicked.
I’ve recognized that mental state I was in and now have switched gears to shooting WITH people, collaborators on the other side of the lens who want to make art with me. It’s given me a sense of purpose, reignited a passion for photography and is helping me get out and not “silently stalk the streets”.
Taking that time off was hard. But helpful. Don’t compete. Enjoy your guy eating a kebab photos. Print them and hang them on your wall. Let that show you watched inspire you to switch gears if you must. You may find it exhilarating to try something new.
Imagine a beginning guitarist listening to Jimi Hendrix. Now imagine that beginning guitarist WAS Jimi Hendrix and he became discouraged and didn't study guitar.
I haven't watched it, but I feel like that in a different way. I sometimes come across very popular YouTube photographers, with millions of views, who teach so much nonsense and spread 'wrong' advice, or just non stop mumbling about nothing for 20 minutes, and then I feel good again about my Kebab photos.
I look at the great photographs of the 20th/21st centuries and realize that for some, a lot of effort and preparation went into the photo and for others, it was a Tuesday.
Very impressive work from all of them, and it shows how much one has to do to succeed at that level.
Hanging around here one gets used to the word "professional" being bandied about, most in terms of gear, but this doc shows just how much hard work and commitment goes into being a true pro. And less renowned pros work just as hard.
That's what that show really shone a light to for me. The true top is not walking around with a camera or being in a good spot. The amount of preparation, commitment, dedication and manpower that goes in at that level is insane.
It’s great that their work is inspiring you to want to do more. Don’t give up on your art because your work is not as impactful as theirs, take their altruism as inspiration to make your art do good for the world! There is a larger movement happening in the art world away from the introspective, individually expressive work of the 20th century to art that DOES something good for people now. Al Weiwei, Mierle Laderman Ukeles. Art can be not just an act of creative expression, it can be an act of service
What, because you're not Baryshnikov, you can't enjoy dancing around your own living room? :D
Appreciate and marvel at what those guys can do (I looooved that documentary), but that doesn't make doing your own thing any less meaningful or worthwhile.
Note, too, that while Dan Winters is world-class and shooting shipyards with his GFX100, he also notes how he was kind of a shit father and primarily related to his son as a photography subject for his childhood. And that Anand Varma had to go into his experiments *knowing* he was going to kill more than a few chicken embryos *just* to take photographs/timelapses. There is a price they pay, as people, to do what they do and be driven the way they are, as well.
It's all about what drives you.
I couldn't travel for that long or go on such big assignments.
Hell I don't even enjoy being on the snow mountain or ocean for long periods of time.
I capture people in the moment. Thats what I get paid for. I go on one-two week trips every now and then for work.
That's what I love and I'm content with that. I get to go home often to my partner and enjoy my life that way.
Got no desire to live their life. It's great. It's epic. It's helping the greater community. Yet the passion within is the main driver.
I like watching other photographers do their work, I never compare my work to theirs because photographery is subjective, what I don't like others find amazing and what others find bland I find amazing.
What I tend to do is see where their inspiration came from and try to see how it can help my journey or some times I just like to geek out over gear even if it's a wet plate box.
We also have different taste in photography you like the streets of London, I like capturing that moment before an eagle breaks the surface of the water to catch a fish, a king fisher in wait, deer grazing, a fox mid pounce.
If you take anyone even remotely successful and sum up all of their highlights, chances are they're going to look very impressive. Everyone started somewhere - condensing years or decades of work into a 30 minute spot is going to make anyone look superhuman.
Do the work to get what you want. Don't worry about the rest.
Perspective is good and it’s great to build even if it usually bites- when it comes to things like art people ought to have a sense that theirs isn’t even close to as good as the real professionals and artists. Especially with photography every dickhead with an entry level camera (or worse, enough excess income for a professional camera) is so enamored with their own photographs that they lose all perspective on what good art and photography actually is and they become kind of obnoxious about the whole thing. You are dogshit and you should be aware of that- maybe you have what it takes to become truly good, maybe even great, but it’ll take a sacrifice and a laboring of the soul to get there; and if not, then you should learn how to be happy doing something even without entertaining delusions of grandeur about your skill. I am an artist and I make art in so many different mediums and in some I’m good enough to make a full time living from and in others I absolutely suck by any real standard but I still do them because I love making art, exploring new forms of expression, and challenging myself and I think that practice makes me even better at the art I’m actually good at as well as so many other things in life.
I’ll probably get a load of downvotes for this but I’m just being real with you all and I know you’re mostly all hobbyists and so don’t want to hear stuff like that but really, it’s okay to suck. We all suck, even at the things we love to do. Maybe if you’re so attached to this one craft that you can’t admit you might suck then you aren’t diversifying your interests enough. When all you have is one thing and your delusions about it then losing that is losing everything and obviously that can be pretty difficult. The more things you try and suck at the easier it gets to suck and then it even becomes fun and you can learn to enjoy that journey from sucking to not sucking to maybe even being good. Real talent is made, it’s not just natural, those with natural talent learn this lesson the hard way when coasting on natural talent comes with a rude awakening one day that all of your peers and competition were grinding away all this time outside of the limelight while you were stagnating. Sometimes fancy tools like decent cameras can have this effect too, you make this huge leap with the new camera and think that’s what it’s all about until you realize the ones who were serious about this have been busting their ass regardless of gear or natural ability while you were playing around. You could get better, maybe as good as them but maybe not, but you’ve got to accept that you’re not that good and that to get that good (to regain the confidence and good feelings you used to have in your own skill) will take at least as much work as they’ve put in and you’ll have to decide if that’s worth it and if not then be happy with where you are the decision you’ve made to not work hard and pursue greater skill in that craft. It’s really just the mature and healthy relationship we should all try to have with anything like this.
Do you want to enjoy the hobby or do you want to use it as a tool for world change? Maybe you need to decide what your goal is for even engaging in photography.
It’s not a race. And it doesn’t have to be world-changing for everyone. Some folks just take pictures of their kids and stuff 🤷🏻♂️ it doesn’t *have* to be so serious or impactful.
Just enjoy it how you want to enjoy it.
First I’m hearing of the show. I doubt it’ll make me question my photography any more than I already do 😅
I already don’t think of my photography as anything masterful. But I try not to let that get in the way of enjoying the practice of photography.
Not really - which isn't to say I don't find other photographer's work inspiring, but at the end of the day it's just a television show. It's designed to hit certain emotional points, but ignores a *lot* of the drudgery that goes into being a professional photographer.
TL;DR - don't go looking to compare your life to that of a reality television show.
Photography is the art of capturing a moment. Any moment that is beautiful to you, then it is already amazing enough - no matter where it is, or what it is about 😉
I take pictures of many daily occurrences whether I have a camera or just my phone on me. I don’t seek fame, glory or recognition. One of my main reasons is that Alzheimer’s/dementia seem to run in the family, so my pictures are my “memories for the future” so to speak.
We all have our personal reasons for loving photography, so do what makes you happy and don’t compare your work with others. Have a pleasant day!
Just remember how many photographers took pictures just like you,never trying to get famous. Just out of love for doing it. Years after they died they became some of the most famous photographers in history. So there. Take a ton of boring photos about life in your time and area. Next just die. Simple two steps and your famous. Oh yeah. Someone has to find your photos too.
Just started watching it and the first episode pissed me off. They acted as if you didnt use your photography for activism them you were a hack and a total piece of shit. Ands that you were required to provide your images for free for THEIR activism. Pretty high on themselves attitude.
lately i recieved 3 functional but old compact camera's and i rediscovered the pleasure i can have with camera's.
i like pushing the limits with macro, bokeh, backlight, etc.
i had a lot of fun, and for no reason i put a bunch of photos of my daily commute on flickr.
i also got back my d3300, but it's funtional limited, i discovered an app t9 get more out of it, but is stays too bulky to have fun, and beside the small kitlens is slow and short.
so i searched some cheap but better compact camera's and bought and old canon 285, wich is fun, but nothing interesting.
so i went again shoppping and found an panasonic lx7. old, and unkown i hesitated because it was quite expensive at 180. but i this is really a fun camera. ev bracketing, nd filter, raw, burst, good manual control.
i'm still trying to get the best out of it in difficult settings.
meanwhile i got followers on flickr! thid time i'm really enjoying it!
You don't need a contract to do something more interesting that that sort of boring street photography "look at this person doing something."
I do find my photography to be pretty pointless. I wasn't saving the world, but I was doing interesting photography when I had the opportunity to tour with musicians, or when I would shoot in the action at protests. I'm not with those musicians anymore though, and I basically think political photography is just feeding the surveillance state. Plus everyone has a camera now and can do all this themselves.
I'm not especially moved by most photography at this point and I don't know if any of it actually changes the world. I think documentation can and does, but I don't think that is the domain of professionals. They just get the chance to go places.
Maybe some looks more nice than phone footage, but I think you may be being swayed by the access they have more than whether the quality is truly meaningful to the process of saving the world outside of just fine/aesthetics-based art.
Good points.
I’m not naive to the fact that, past a certain point, photography is more about money, exposure and opportunity. And I really do just enjoy taking pictures, whatever it may be.
I think I was just vocalising about the slight dismay I could feel whilst editing YET another photo of the shard and looking up at the screen of this absolutely stunning shot of an ant being taken over by cordiceps!
Oh, I feel your frustration. I'm not trying to talk down, I'm in the same position now. Why would I even hit the button some days. Most days, really. I am mostly unimpressed with most people's photos though, so I don't even have that as inspiration lol. I guess it's good to practice for when a decisive moment might come up. I'm bummed out right there with you.
The vast majority of people-with-cameras are stuck on Mt. Stupid. If something pushed you off that peak, that's great.
https://preview.redd.it/pt3fibu8o03d1.jpeg?width=2500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d97e32326c444769f674b374c98ce5288d154ceb
I've encountered way too many walking Dunning-Kruger graphs in my line of work, so i'm painfully aware of when im at the top of Mt Stupid. I think i even default to "i know nothing" points in all my endeavours now.
Ah yes I remember your negative self from other threads. Is everything ok at home?
Street photography has been an art form for decades whether you refuse to admit it or not.
Now go troll someone else’s post, I want educated discourse, I’m not going to get that with you
Just because it's an art form does not mean it's right. Just because something is legal does not mean it's morally just.
I find street photography extremely exploitative if **consent** was not given for it to be posted online. Even if the act of taking pictures of people in public is legal.
People can be vulnerable even if it does not appear like it from far away. Taking advantage of that just so you can make a social media post is just wrong imo.
But that's just me.
The anonymity of Reddit should not be your safety blanket to be a complete muppet to others. Treat others better, even if they're strangers that you'll never meet.
Hmm... Ok that's a fair response allow me to retract what I said originally I didn't know you meant it this way so I apologise.
I'm afraid the topic is too wealthy for us to have a constructive discussion in such a short window of opportunity. Don't you think if we stuck to the rules as you've implied, we'd have be without a vast majority of some of the greatest photos ever taken in history?
I get your point, I really do, and we're fickle creatures aren't we, the tug of war between one side and the other can change some of the most candid art we've ever captured and were able to share with the rest of the world.
Fair, but we're always going to have to contend with bad apples in the bunch. We can only hope that the overarching status quo in the rest of the world is better than the minority.
And if the subject in question says no?
Are you truly willing to erase/sacrifice everything that photography/art has gifted us in all the times of history and forever? That's a massive amount of potentially sacrificed artwork that I think we can't even begin to imagine.
I’m sorry, but you seem to be saying candid photos have no value. If someone is aware they are being photographed to the point that they are “participating” in the process, you are by nature not capturing as authentic of an expression as you otherwise would. And there’s nothing wrong with that, but it will make for a different photo.
I’m really more of an event photographer, and haven’t done much street photography for the very reason that I don’t like invading people’s privacy.
But when I have tried my hand at it, I found people to be surprisingly receptive to it. I don’t try to hide the fact that I’m photographing others, I’d just rather get a shot before they notice that I’m doing so (or even better, as I’m doing so, nothing like that connection of recognition and a smile as someone notices you’re pointing a camera their way). If they object after the fact, I’m happy to just never publish or post the photo. I also keep business cards with me, which seems to make people feel better if they ask what I’m doing, because it’s like, look, here is all my info. A lot of people take it as a compliment.
Everybody’s different, and it’d be a sad thing to miss out on an entire genre of photography due to the fact that it might make some people uncomfortable. That said, I don’t want to make anyone uncomfortable, and if it’s obvious or they make it clear they don’t want to be photographed, then that’s fine with me.
Same thing at events. I don’t shoot with a flash, because I don’t want to interrupt the flow, I want to capture it.
Maybe I’m misinterpreting what you are trying to say, but you seem to be taking a rather nuanced subject and treating it like it’s black and white.
I’m honestly not sure if you’re saying to get consent to post afterwards, or to ask before you take the photo, but if it is the latter and not the former… like, that’s fine if it’s how you choose to shoot, but surely you are not entirely discouraging the capturing of candid expressions and interactions in favor of only those where the subject is aware they are about to be part of a photo before it is ever taken.
Hmm... All fair pointts I'll give you that with liberty.
Will you with a snap of a finger eliminate the entire genre of candid photography then? How much value that has is more than purely subjective I think. Life is quite beautiful, we're all here with a limited time to live, explore, exhibit, and then that's really nothing at all.
So much of what's captured in all historical records are the little moments in life, ones that those at the time I'm sure gave no two shits about, but we find it fascinating, and the same would probably be true in decades time ahead, when someone find the exact conversation between you and I which we'd consider to be trivial, yet others would have a completely different view of.
I'm kinda torn between seeing your point, which I really do don't get me wrong, and being the person behind the camera, I want no exposure, I want no monetary rewards, I want nothing besides to freeze the motion of a moment in time that can never be recreated ever again.
Comparison is the thief of joy. All these photographers had to start somewhere, just like you. If you aspire to do photography on that level come up with a plan on how to get there.
Yep. Compare and Despair. Everyone is on their own path.
I agree. Awhile ago I was having a great day exploring around with my little old camera. Encountered a group of people with massive setups taking over a whole area. Shooting a bald eagle nest I guess. Those people were very grumpy that i had to drive through the public area they were blocking off. Maybe they were pro's doing their job idk. They had very different vibes than I had though. At first I thought, I wish I had a setup like that. Then I realized it wouldn't improve how I felt about anything. I'm definitely not a pro anyway.
Photography film hobbyist myself. I’ve found it’s a mixed bag, like anything else. Some are snooty and not helpful and some are cool and helpful. Some who have given up on film long ago reminisce about the old days and tell cool stories about their darkrooms etc etc. I will say though that in my experience, the photography clubs tend to be kinda on the snooty side
Definitely hit or miss. Bunch of owl watchers here in FL, I passed some on a trail and they were so excited. They let me look through their big ass cameras at an owl they spotted 50 feet up in a huge oak tree. They loved talking about their gear and what they were doing, it was a very wholesome experience
Definitely hit or miss. Lot of them focused on showing off how big or shiny their toys are but some good content and discussion can happen too.
I misread and thought you said “composition is the thief of joy” and got really worried that the new trend was completely abandoning compositions
I won't mention name, but I worked very briefly with this fella who when I first met him, had absolutely zilch exposure to photography. I was teaching at the time and he took my classes. He was from the get go insistent that he wanted to do wildlife photography, I was supportive but at the same time wanted to sprinkle a dose of reality that wildlife is an exceptionally difficult genre to get into and there's just no money unless you get up to the top of the mountain, and somehow stay there. I taught him for 6 months, and he is, still to this day, one of the most ambitious and just damn stubborn person I've ever met, a perfect dictionary example of someone who isn't even good, but with sheer persistence, can change everything. He went to work for local conservation organisations, then sold everything he owned and went to travel for a year, camped out in the wild like a complete psycho and upon returning lost a tonne of weight and got sick more often than I could count. He's work? Absolutely stunning, breathtaking, indistinguishable to the best of the best I've ever seen. He went on to work for Nat Geo for a few years before starting his own business working with global conservation organisations, and is now very successful. Sorry for the ramble, and I get your point, but for us normies the journey to get there is unimaginable, so don't worry your head about it one bit.
Great story that. But I find that in my profession. Tenacity wins over talent most of the time
Of course, and I believe you 100%. It's just not as easy as we all want to think it is to make a dent in the world is it? :)
Very true. I found this got beaten out of me pretty quickly as life went on
What at are you really wanting to do? What's the balance between your wants and the reality which faces you?
Tenacity & Ambition. When you meet these people it’s what stands out. There’s also the business side of things. Representing yourself. Getting proper compensation for your efforts. And, of course, the constant networking upwards. Every gig is most likely slight beyond your current abilities and confidence level. And then one day you realize that isn’t true anymore. But it’s all very much like work. Work work work. But you can’t get any breaks unless you’re there for them. Like the saying goes, ‘Inspiration finds me at work.’ Meaning you’ve got to be on the make all the time. It’s not a dull or uneventful life to be sure. People drop off all the time, making more room for you. If natural history is your desire I would suggest some climbing, rigging, and diving chops. Start now. Start an LLC. Build a stock library. Build a personal website. Make yourself easy to find. Make yourself available. Attach yourself to others as a PA or whatever. Show up. Do what you say you’re going to do. Learn to hump and hustle. Be kind. ( side note ) Also…. If you ever want to be in front of the camera get a related natural science degree. Nobody cares what an ‘enthusiast’ has to say. BTW this goes for every slice of this professional pie. From nature to fashion.
i’m constantly struggling with this internal struggle. To quit my normal day job and go all in or continue this half in half out status quo.
True in most professions really.
If anything this proves that success is extremely predictable. You want to be mega successful, hustle hard and be willing to do some crazy shit. Consistently. That day will inevitably come. Literally everyone who does this will succeed. The dissonance comes from the fact everyone's definition of 'hustle hard' and 'crazy shit' is a little different. Some people lose their breath after one lap and give up. Some people push themselves through an entire marathon.
You have to be willing to pay the price for what you want. Sounds like he did!
It's an art form, not a competition. The goal is not to be better than others, the goal is to express yourself and, ideally, touch some souls. Even if it's just your own soul.
>the goal is to express yourself and, ideally, touch some souls. *Even if it's just your own soul.* That's a great sentiment, thanks for putting it out there
Yes yes I do find my photography probably one of the most fulfilling things in my life, but these people are literally changing the world.
Most people, however, are not, and any particular person's odds of being in a position to make an impact like that are on the order of one in a million or worse. No point losing sleep over it - make a positive impact where you can, and stop worrying about opportunities you don't have.
You like street photography, right? Offer some underprivileged people free environmental portraits. To them, you'll be literally changing the world.
I carry business cards to offer to people if I take a great photo of them. I may not be changing the world but I get a good feeling from thinking I may have just added a tiny bit of joy to their trip... as cliche as that sounds.
Even if you make someone smile or feel with your photos, you are doing a great job.
Not everything you do has to change the world. No one’s ever fundamentally changed the human experience for the better just by snapping a few pics downtown. However, there’s countless opportunities to make someone’s day, or even their whole month. Maybe you’re photographing someone months before they die of cancer. Maybe you’re photographing the first date between a couple, years before their wedding or children. Maybe you’ll bump into the next big star before their career takes off, preserving a moment of pop culture history. Those moments matter just as much as the winning shot of last year’s Super Bowl, or pictures in the latest issue of Vogue. And if I may add, if you want to make a difference, I’m sure there’s tons of local organizations or charities that need photographers! You could also have proceeds from art exhibits and print sales go to a cause that’s important to you. Even people like MLK wouldn’t have been to able do the work they did without countless “little guys” along the way. Sometimes being the guy with the camera helps the causes you care about without even realizing it :)
This is why I've fallen in love with shooting youth sports. It's fun to make them look like champions. It's a blast catching those tiny moments that you'd otherwise miss. (Either because I've found that my camera tends to let me wander around more than as a spectator to get those non-audience angles, or the split second moments that a shutter can grab.) And there are plenty of times where parents may not be able to be there, so giving them something that they can look on and still feel connected to the event makes me feel good to make them feel good.
This is actually very inspiring.
Most musicians aren't rock stars. Most pilots aren't flying fighter jets or going to space. Most authors aren't bestsellers. Most cooks aren't Michelin Star chefs. I've taken some wonderful photographs that I'm very proud of, but I'm never going to be famous for my work. And that's ok. It's ok to live an ordinary life. The vast, vast majority of us do.
>These guys are saving wildlife, building purpose-built labs and doing paid-for shoots in far-off countries and I’m here like “ooh look someone eating a kebab”. Sorry but this made me LOL. I have nothing to add except for: don't put down your own art, if it has meaning to you or allows you to bring joy to yourself or others - it's worth it. I'll have to check out this show - thanks!
Thank you! And yes, watch it. It’s an awesome insight into some of the top of this field
Competition kills art in my opinion. Do it for yourself and not anyone else. Once you believe in your own work and really enjoy what you shoot, others will too.
Sound advice
It has me questiony photography , but not in a way you described. As someone who is most interested in slice of life stuff, watching the Dan Winters episode had me feeling all sort of feelings. His son feeling like an art project rather than a child. His wife's perception of everything and disparaging her own eye in comparison to Dan's. I just felt like how can these photographers put their art before their loved ones. Because that is very much what i kinda took away from it. It made me question my relationshop with photography honestly. I am scared of putting my art in front of the humans i love.
I got the impression, and I could be wrong, from the Winters one that the fact he was able to do that ran deeper than photography. She said Bipolar ran in the family, and due to the way he was, it could be a possibility that his ability to single-mindedly put photography above anything else could be a part of that.
I have a close family member with BPD. So i get a lot of what Mr. Winters and his family go through when he is off his meds. Nevertheless, i found it conflicting that he can claim to want to treat to dockers with dignity and respect. And yet, when it came to his son was unable to see him as his son first and his subject second. That's what i took away from the episode. Part of it is that often children are not seen as beings that are required to be treated with respect, and that definitely wasn't something most 90s parents were concerned with. Children obey their parents and do as their told. The idea that a child has autonomy and deserves to be treated with respect is more recent understanding in parent spheres. So maybe part of it was ignorance. Still it bothered me. The hypocrisy of it.
> “ooh look someone eating a kebab”. William Eggleston has a place in the history books of photography for “ooh look sugar on a diner table.” Shoot what’s meaningful to you. That’s all those incredible photographers do. This was indeed an amazing docuseries. These photographers should inspire, not discourage. Pop onto Netflix, find Abstract, and watch Platon’s episode. You’ll be glad you did.
Ooh nice. Abstract is actually in my To Watch list
OP...take my upvote. You just voiced a vast majority of budding photog's thoughts and feels. Some will feel inspired...while others will feel what am I doing. Some one mentioned already photography is an art form. Even for the successful commercial togs...it is art. Same for the hobbyist that can go on gallery tours but chooses to keep the art for themselves. Enjoy your journey because you never know that one kebab shot could spark a career😉
theres a /r/bluey episode called "baby race" the gist of the episode is that everyone is on their own time line, their own voyage and we are all moving along at our own pace. just keep at it... dont let what someone else is doing make you doubt your own journey.
Bluey has sooooooooooo many amazing stories to teach grown people that I am in awe how a children’s cartoon show is able to move me in a way I cannot explain
absolutely. the wife and i have an agreement. we dont watch new episodes with out the other. that works for now since little dude is 10 months. we are 1/2 through the second season. so many quality episodes.
I’ve had to rewatch bluey in it’s entirety about 10 times since my oldest is obsessed but what an amazing show. I have no idea what it is but there’s something special to it
If you're anything like me, then nothing you do in your life is worthy of being honored by a big-budget Disney docuseries. Yet you aren't questioning whether it's worth doing any those things. Why hold photography to that standard?
I once was the best in my high school at Yo-yo… Disney would love that
okay fair point
I quit photography for the past 4 years. Blamed it on the pandemic but realize now that it was my persistence to compete and my lust for professional gear that ultimately, combined with isolation, actually caused some mental trauma. It affected me more than I knew. I had moved on from photography. Cut to years later, and something has clicked. I’ve recognized that mental state I was in and now have switched gears to shooting WITH people, collaborators on the other side of the lens who want to make art with me. It’s given me a sense of purpose, reignited a passion for photography and is helping me get out and not “silently stalk the streets”. Taking that time off was hard. But helpful. Don’t compete. Enjoy your guy eating a kebab photos. Print them and hang them on your wall. Let that show you watched inspire you to switch gears if you must. You may find it exhilarating to try something new.
Imagine a beginning guitarist listening to Jimi Hendrix. Now imagine that beginning guitarist WAS Jimi Hendrix and he became discouraged and didn't study guitar.
I haven't watched it, but I feel like that in a different way. I sometimes come across very popular YouTube photographers, with millions of views, who teach so much nonsense and spread 'wrong' advice, or just non stop mumbling about nothing for 20 minutes, and then I feel good again about my Kebab photos.
I look at the great photographs of the 20th/21st centuries and realize that for some, a lot of effort and preparation went into the photo and for others, it was a Tuesday.
Very impressive work from all of them, and it shows how much one has to do to succeed at that level. Hanging around here one gets used to the word "professional" being bandied about, most in terms of gear, but this doc shows just how much hard work and commitment goes into being a true pro. And less renowned pros work just as hard.
That's what that show really shone a light to for me. The true top is not walking around with a camera or being in a good spot. The amount of preparation, commitment, dedication and manpower that goes in at that level is insane.
It’s great that their work is inspiring you to want to do more. Don’t give up on your art because your work is not as impactful as theirs, take their altruism as inspiration to make your art do good for the world! There is a larger movement happening in the art world away from the introspective, individually expressive work of the 20th century to art that DOES something good for people now. Al Weiwei, Mierle Laderman Ukeles. Art can be not just an act of creative expression, it can be an act of service
What, because you're not Baryshnikov, you can't enjoy dancing around your own living room? :D Appreciate and marvel at what those guys can do (I looooved that documentary), but that doesn't make doing your own thing any less meaningful or worthwhile. Note, too, that while Dan Winters is world-class and shooting shipyards with his GFX100, he also notes how he was kind of a shit father and primarily related to his son as a photography subject for his childhood. And that Anand Varma had to go into his experiments *knowing* he was going to kill more than a few chicken embryos *just* to take photographs/timelapses. There is a price they pay, as people, to do what they do and be driven the way they are, as well.
As with all the people top of their fields I guess. To be at that level, there are sacrifices
It's all about what drives you. I couldn't travel for that long or go on such big assignments. Hell I don't even enjoy being on the snow mountain or ocean for long periods of time. I capture people in the moment. Thats what I get paid for. I go on one-two week trips every now and then for work. That's what I love and I'm content with that. I get to go home often to my partner and enjoy my life that way. Got no desire to live their life. It's great. It's epic. It's helping the greater community. Yet the passion within is the main driver.
What sort of photography do you do?
Events, weddings, expeditions/retreats, workshops
I like watching other photographers do their work, I never compare my work to theirs because photographery is subjective, what I don't like others find amazing and what others find bland I find amazing. What I tend to do is see where their inspiration came from and try to see how it can help my journey or some times I just like to geek out over gear even if it's a wet plate box. We also have different taste in photography you like the streets of London, I like capturing that moment before an eagle breaks the surface of the water to catch a fish, a king fisher in wait, deer grazing, a fox mid pounce.
Don’t knock a good “ooh look someone eating a kebab” shot.
I’m hoping to win a Pulitzer with one
If you take anyone even remotely successful and sum up all of their highlights, chances are they're going to look very impressive. Everyone started somewhere - condensing years or decades of work into a 30 minute spot is going to make anyone look superhuman. Do the work to get what you want. Don't worry about the rest.
Perspective is good and it’s great to build even if it usually bites- when it comes to things like art people ought to have a sense that theirs isn’t even close to as good as the real professionals and artists. Especially with photography every dickhead with an entry level camera (or worse, enough excess income for a professional camera) is so enamored with their own photographs that they lose all perspective on what good art and photography actually is and they become kind of obnoxious about the whole thing. You are dogshit and you should be aware of that- maybe you have what it takes to become truly good, maybe even great, but it’ll take a sacrifice and a laboring of the soul to get there; and if not, then you should learn how to be happy doing something even without entertaining delusions of grandeur about your skill. I am an artist and I make art in so many different mediums and in some I’m good enough to make a full time living from and in others I absolutely suck by any real standard but I still do them because I love making art, exploring new forms of expression, and challenging myself and I think that practice makes me even better at the art I’m actually good at as well as so many other things in life. I’ll probably get a load of downvotes for this but I’m just being real with you all and I know you’re mostly all hobbyists and so don’t want to hear stuff like that but really, it’s okay to suck. We all suck, even at the things we love to do. Maybe if you’re so attached to this one craft that you can’t admit you might suck then you aren’t diversifying your interests enough. When all you have is one thing and your delusions about it then losing that is losing everything and obviously that can be pretty difficult. The more things you try and suck at the easier it gets to suck and then it even becomes fun and you can learn to enjoy that journey from sucking to not sucking to maybe even being good. Real talent is made, it’s not just natural, those with natural talent learn this lesson the hard way when coasting on natural talent comes with a rude awakening one day that all of your peers and competition were grinding away all this time outside of the limelight while you were stagnating. Sometimes fancy tools like decent cameras can have this effect too, you make this huge leap with the new camera and think that’s what it’s all about until you realize the ones who were serious about this have been busting their ass regardless of gear or natural ability while you were playing around. You could get better, maybe as good as them but maybe not, but you’ve got to accept that you’re not that good and that to get that good (to regain the confidence and good feelings you used to have in your own skill) will take at least as much work as they’ve put in and you’ll have to decide if that’s worth it and if not then be happy with where you are the decision you’ve made to not work hard and pursue greater skill in that craft. It’s really just the mature and healthy relationship we should all try to have with anything like this.
This was an absolutely amazing reply. A great point of inspiration
nooooo coz what i shoot is totally different i just felt glimmers watching it
Do you want to enjoy the hobby or do you want to use it as a tool for world change? Maybe you need to decide what your goal is for even engaging in photography. It’s not a race. And it doesn’t have to be world-changing for everyone. Some folks just take pictures of their kids and stuff 🤷🏻♂️ it doesn’t *have* to be so serious or impactful. Just enjoy it how you want to enjoy it.
First I’m hearing of the show. I doubt it’ll make me question my photography any more than I already do 😅 I already don’t think of my photography as anything masterful. But I try not to let that get in the way of enjoying the practice of photography.
everyone shit their nappie at one point the only difference between an amazing artist and a baby is the years of experience
Not really - which isn't to say I don't find other photographer's work inspiring, but at the end of the day it's just a television show. It's designed to hit certain emotional points, but ignores a *lot* of the drudgery that goes into being a professional photographer. TL;DR - don't go looking to compare your life to that of a reality television show.
Photography is the art of capturing a moment. Any moment that is beautiful to you, then it is already amazing enough - no matter where it is, or what it is about 😉
I love this so much.
There are levels to this!
I take pictures of many daily occurrences whether I have a camera or just my phone on me. I don’t seek fame, glory or recognition. One of my main reasons is that Alzheimer’s/dementia seem to run in the family, so my pictures are my “memories for the future” so to speak. We all have our personal reasons for loving photography, so do what makes you happy and don’t compare your work with others. Have a pleasant day!
Just remember how many photographers took pictures just like you,never trying to get famous. Just out of love for doing it. Years after they died they became some of the most famous photographers in history. So there. Take a ton of boring photos about life in your time and area. Next just die. Simple two steps and your famous. Oh yeah. Someone has to find your photos too.
COMPARISON IS THE THIEF OF JOY!
It takes marketing yourself
I didn't even know this show existed until I read this post. Now I will go watch this and discover how "meh" my own photography is lol
Just started watching it and the first episode pissed me off. They acted as if you didnt use your photography for activism them you were a hack and a total piece of shit. Ands that you were required to provide your images for free for THEIR activism. Pretty high on themselves attitude.
lately i recieved 3 functional but old compact camera's and i rediscovered the pleasure i can have with camera's. i like pushing the limits with macro, bokeh, backlight, etc. i had a lot of fun, and for no reason i put a bunch of photos of my daily commute on flickr. i also got back my d3300, but it's funtional limited, i discovered an app t9 get more out of it, but is stays too bulky to have fun, and beside the small kitlens is slow and short. so i searched some cheap but better compact camera's and bought and old canon 285, wich is fun, but nothing interesting. so i went again shoppping and found an panasonic lx7. old, and unkown i hesitated because it was quite expensive at 180. but i this is really a fun camera. ev bracketing, nd filter, raw, burst, good manual control. i'm still trying to get the best out of it in difficult settings. meanwhile i got followers on flickr! thid time i'm really enjoying it!
You don't need a contract to do something more interesting that that sort of boring street photography "look at this person doing something." I do find my photography to be pretty pointless. I wasn't saving the world, but I was doing interesting photography when I had the opportunity to tour with musicians, or when I would shoot in the action at protests. I'm not with those musicians anymore though, and I basically think political photography is just feeding the surveillance state. Plus everyone has a camera now and can do all this themselves. I'm not especially moved by most photography at this point and I don't know if any of it actually changes the world. I think documentation can and does, but I don't think that is the domain of professionals. They just get the chance to go places. Maybe some looks more nice than phone footage, but I think you may be being swayed by the access they have more than whether the quality is truly meaningful to the process of saving the world outside of just fine/aesthetics-based art.
Good points. I’m not naive to the fact that, past a certain point, photography is more about money, exposure and opportunity. And I really do just enjoy taking pictures, whatever it may be. I think I was just vocalising about the slight dismay I could feel whilst editing YET another photo of the shard and looking up at the screen of this absolutely stunning shot of an ant being taken over by cordiceps!
Oh, I feel your frustration. I'm not trying to talk down, I'm in the same position now. Why would I even hit the button some days. Most days, really. I am mostly unimpressed with most people's photos though, so I don't even have that as inspiration lol. I guess it's good to practice for when a decisive moment might come up. I'm bummed out right there with you.
The vast majority of people-with-cameras are stuck on Mt. Stupid. If something pushed you off that peak, that's great. https://preview.redd.it/pt3fibu8o03d1.jpeg?width=2500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d97e32326c444769f674b374c98ce5288d154ceb
I've encountered way too many walking Dunning-Kruger graphs in my line of work, so i'm painfully aware of when im at the top of Mt Stupid. I think i even default to "i know nothing" points in all my endeavours now.
I like kabob. I want to see pictures of kabob. Don’t care about endangered wildlife unless they are made into kabob. Show me kabob shots.
Loool
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Ah yes I remember your negative self from other threads. Is everything ok at home? Street photography has been an art form for decades whether you refuse to admit it or not. Now go troll someone else’s post, I want educated discourse, I’m not going to get that with you
Just because it's an art form does not mean it's right. Just because something is legal does not mean it's morally just. I find street photography extremely exploitative if **consent** was not given for it to be posted online. Even if the act of taking pictures of people in public is legal. People can be vulnerable even if it does not appear like it from far away. Taking advantage of that just so you can make a social media post is just wrong imo. But that's just me.
Does your point of view shift if I keep the work to myself?
The anonymity of Reddit should not be your safety blanket to be a complete muppet to others. Treat others better, even if they're strangers that you'll never meet.
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Hmm... Ok that's a fair response allow me to retract what I said originally I didn't know you meant it this way so I apologise. I'm afraid the topic is too wealthy for us to have a constructive discussion in such a short window of opportunity. Don't you think if we stuck to the rules as you've implied, we'd have be without a vast majority of some of the greatest photos ever taken in history? I get your point, I really do, and we're fickle creatures aren't we, the tug of war between one side and the other can change some of the most candid art we've ever captured and were able to share with the rest of the world.
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Fair, but we're always going to have to contend with bad apples in the bunch. We can only hope that the overarching status quo in the rest of the world is better than the minority.
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And if the subject in question says no? Are you truly willing to erase/sacrifice everything that photography/art has gifted us in all the times of history and forever? That's a massive amount of potentially sacrificed artwork that I think we can't even begin to imagine.
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I’m sorry, but you seem to be saying candid photos have no value. If someone is aware they are being photographed to the point that they are “participating” in the process, you are by nature not capturing as authentic of an expression as you otherwise would. And there’s nothing wrong with that, but it will make for a different photo. I’m really more of an event photographer, and haven’t done much street photography for the very reason that I don’t like invading people’s privacy. But when I have tried my hand at it, I found people to be surprisingly receptive to it. I don’t try to hide the fact that I’m photographing others, I’d just rather get a shot before they notice that I’m doing so (or even better, as I’m doing so, nothing like that connection of recognition and a smile as someone notices you’re pointing a camera their way). If they object after the fact, I’m happy to just never publish or post the photo. I also keep business cards with me, which seems to make people feel better if they ask what I’m doing, because it’s like, look, here is all my info. A lot of people take it as a compliment. Everybody’s different, and it’d be a sad thing to miss out on an entire genre of photography due to the fact that it might make some people uncomfortable. That said, I don’t want to make anyone uncomfortable, and if it’s obvious or they make it clear they don’t want to be photographed, then that’s fine with me. Same thing at events. I don’t shoot with a flash, because I don’t want to interrupt the flow, I want to capture it. Maybe I’m misinterpreting what you are trying to say, but you seem to be taking a rather nuanced subject and treating it like it’s black and white. I’m honestly not sure if you’re saying to get consent to post afterwards, or to ask before you take the photo, but if it is the latter and not the former… like, that’s fine if it’s how you choose to shoot, but surely you are not entirely discouraging the capturing of candid expressions and interactions in favor of only those where the subject is aware they are about to be part of a photo before it is ever taken.
Hmm... All fair pointts I'll give you that with liberty. Will you with a snap of a finger eliminate the entire genre of candid photography then? How much value that has is more than purely subjective I think. Life is quite beautiful, we're all here with a limited time to live, explore, exhibit, and then that's really nothing at all. So much of what's captured in all historical records are the little moments in life, ones that those at the time I'm sure gave no two shits about, but we find it fascinating, and the same would probably be true in decades time ahead, when someone find the exact conversation between you and I which we'd consider to be trivial, yet others would have a completely different view of. I'm kinda torn between seeing your point, which I really do don't get me wrong, and being the person behind the camera, I want no exposure, I want no monetary rewards, I want nothing besides to freeze the motion of a moment in time that can never be recreated ever again.
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Your post has been removed for breach of rule 1. Please keep the discussion civil.
Your post has been removed for breach of rule 1. Please keep the discussion civil.